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Subscribe to RSSLaw enforcers in Charlotte, N.C., are looking for the writer of a threatening letter sent to regional mosques detailing ways that an anti-Islam "network" would make life miserable for Muslims, and warning that the writer would not hesitate to kill them if they tried to retaliate.
"On face value it's really a threatening letter. It’s like they took a page from the Klan’s playbook," said Jibril Hough, spokesman for the Islamic Center of Charlotte, which received the four-paragraph letter early last week. "Who knows if this person is part of a greater network, a clandestine conspiracy or just someone who has an active imagination?"
The letter claims to represent a network of people in business, government and schools who plan to make life difficult for Muslims by denying them jobs, loans, medical attention and other services.
The writer also warned Muslims not to retaliate: "I have no problems killing Muslims legally. So if you try anything, consider yourselves warned," the letter says.
Hough said the mosque filed a police report when the letter was first received early last week. He followed up by meeting with the FBI on Monday, and then by reaching out to the local media because he felt it had to be taken seriously.
NBC Charlotte affiliate WCNC report on the letter
The mosque sometimes receives ranting hate email from people — often sparked by news events, he said. "But this was different."
Hough said the FBI was already investigating because identical letters were received by other Islamic centers in the state, including the Islamic Center of Raleigh.
The FBI would not confirm it was investigating the letters, in line with Department of Justice policy.
"We are aware of the situation," said Shelley Lynch, public affairs officer for the FBI field office in Charlotte. She added: "Everything about the letter is not as it appears."
The letter was signed with a woman’s name, but an area woman with that name denied having any knowledge of the letter and is working with police in their investigation, according to a report by WSOC TV in Charlotte.
Msnbc.com is not identifying the woman in light of uncertainty about her involvement.
The Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Dept. did not respond to multiple calls from msnbc.com for comment and records relating to this case.
"We are hoping the authorities will get behind it and find out the motive," said Hough. "We just want the authorities to look at the threat and give it the attention it deserves."
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There were plenty of Japs born here that still went to the camps Dumb Shi#!raddave44
I believe that there is an old saying that goes “something’s never change” and on this article it would appear to be true after all on the one hand we have those who are the anti-Islam crowed that continue to tell us all how evil Islam is (for a multitude of reasons, not all of which are malicious) then we have the other side that tells us that it’s not Islam that is evil but the terrorists who are evil (and agin do this for a multitude of reasons , not all of which are malicious) with the end result appearing to be that both sides get really emotional and leave even more entrenched in their views then when they came.
So my questions to the anti-Islam crowed is that saying you are correct and Islam is the source of the problem now what? How do we solve this issue and end this conflict in a just and honourable way?
Secondly my questions to the pro-Islam crowed is that saying you’re correct and the problem isn’t with Islam but extremists then again now what? How do we solve this issue and end this conflict in a just an honourable way?
I ask because I figure that with the amount of posters here we may be able to get some kind of think tank going at the very least, also I will say that I will not post my own opinions on this thread but I will ask questions. Finally I’d also encourage anyone reading this thread to vote for the answers you most prefer as that way we all can tell which are the most popular.
Great post! Regarding the below...
It's not clear to me what you mean by "the problem". Islam has remained out of touch with modern, Western concepts of society. Other religions, in the ironic words of a poster in another thread, have caught up with the 19th century, so why shouldn't Islam do so as well? Christianity and Judaism have responded to the Enlightenment with changes to their doctrine, although many, such as myself, would call these, "too little, too late". But this is way better than the non-existent response of Islam. Islam is in a time warp, and needs to get out of it or be relegated to the dustbin of history.
It all comes down to human rights. These are a foreign concept to Islam. First and foremost would be the rights of women. That's only a starting point, and yet beyond the ability of Islamic fundamentalists to grasp.
engineer guy-2787179
The problem would be Islamic extremism/terrorism, which the anti-Islam crowed (to the best of my knowledge) blames on the doctrines of Islam (as in it's the prime motivating force) so my question is that saying they are right how do we solve the problem? Now you say that Islam needs to "modernise" especially in regards to women's rights and I agree with you there especially in regards to the track records of women's rights in countries like Saudi Arabia (although I would point out that in England divorce was all but impossible for women to get prior 1970s and it was still legal for a man to rape his wife until the 1990s) but I have to ask that since one of the corner stones of religious power is traditional authority, what are the odds that even a small change is going to take place? Especially since most of Islam's authoritative voices are from countries that don't like western civilization at all? And if Islam isn't going to modernise then what?
Losmuertos
FR Sent.
engineer guy-2787179
FR Sent as well.
I like to have those that have strong viewpoints, as well as the reasoning to back those POVs up, in my Vine Circle. Hope I qualify as well!
Peace
Another set of very good questions.
The odds of Islam changing are, in my view, negligible. Does that matter? For those living in Islamic countries, maybe not. And that's fine in my book. But this raises the question of why someone living in one of these countries would have one single thought of moving to the West at all? An Islamic "utopia" should be self-contained under that view, shouldn't it? And yet, Muslims continue to migrate to "infidel countries". Why is that? Is it simply about peaceful coexistence?
If Islam does not modernize, and I see absolutely no sign that it ever will, then that sets up an inevitable conflict with the civilized world. The Islamic world is a throwback to the seventh century, and on top of that, it views itself as superior to other cultures. That's a recipe for conflict.
engineer guy-2787179
Hmmm I’m beginning to think this thread will just be more questions than anything else by the time everyone(who wants to participate) is through with it :) now from what arguments i've heard I’d say many people from Muslim countries want to come to the west for the better standard of living we have here (what with the west being the world’s biggest consumers) whether there is anything nefarious in that, well I leave it to the individual to decide as there are a lot of arguments that go either way. But I’m afraid to ask that if there is a conflict brewing between the secular west (which is a disputed title these days due to the amount of religious groups getting involved in politics) and Islam then what kind of conflict will it be? A military one? (a total war like I have seen some anti-Islam people advocate) an ideological one? (much like the Cold War) or even a civil/social one?
Ps I have to ask (more in the interest of fairness then anything else) but couldn't the accusation that Islam views itself as superior to other cultures, be applied to westen culture too?
As I see it, it would be a legislative one. The nature of Islam fundamentally challenges the whole American notion of religious freedom as Americans know it. We Americans have not (yet) had to deal with a religion that also has aspirations of imposing itself on the government in a literal way, not just as a side influence or lobbyist, but in a way that is all-encompassing in the entirety of life itself as Islam does. I feel awful for secular Egyptians for this very reason.
Western civilization can claim to be living in the 21st century, and thus be superior to a culture that's living in the seventh century. On the other hand, a culture that's living in the seventh century, claiming to be superior to one that's living in the 21st deserves ridicule.
Overcome evil by doing good.
All the while, Losmuertos floats above the fray, sublimely impartial and questioning the circular, unproductive, emotional arguments that both sides make. Only it's not true. As much as I like Los, and I usually do, he is not impartial. You will find that he only challenges the "anti-Islam crowd," never the "pro-Islam crowd." I don't mind being challenged or questioned, I just reject this notion that you, Los, are an impartial, equal-opportunity actor. If you occasionally challenged the "pro-Islam crowd," which you don't, then I might "feel" otherwise and could accept your claim or aspriration to neutral gobetween. Just post your opinions, like everyone else, and let the chips fall where they may. Your opinions seep out all over anyway, so there's no great secret to keep ;-)
p.s. I prefer "Islam-resistant Human Rights Activist" to "anti-Islam crowd." Womens Rights, Gay Rights, Minority Rights (which are horribly abused in Islamic majority countries), and Freedom of Conscience (again, horribly abused in Islamic majority countries). A person born into the prison of Islam is not even allowed to follow his/her own adult conscience and choose whatever spirituality (or lack thereof) best fits him/her. It is called "Apostasy" and punishable by DEATH that every major school of Islamic jurisprudence sanctions. After all, there is Muhammad calling for it in the highly regarded Bukhari ahadith 'Whomever changes his Islamic faith, Kill him." Oh sorry, I'm getting childishly emotional again. Little things like that tend to upset me.
So, from now on it's "Islam-Resistant Human Rights Activist" for me. Thanks for understanding and have a great day.
Adam44
I admit that I have my views and am not impartial; also I admit (as I have told you before) that I don’t think that Islam is the prime motivating factor in Islamic extremism, but on this thread I am trying to be impartial, because it does get tiring to read the same old arguments about who’s right and who’s historical facts are correct (ect ect) it’s like a revolving door, also I notice that when it comes to these arguments very few people (on either side) are willing to come up with solutions to the problem, which is why I started this thread. Now at this point I’d like to thank engineer guy-2787179 as he has posted an answer (well something like an answer) which (since I’m guessing he’s on the anti-Islam side) the pro Islam side has yet to post, but hey it’s still early days yet, and yes if nobody (on that side) posts a solution then I will be disapointed.
I’d also like to say that when it comes to criticising the “pro-Islam” side I do, do that too but very rarely but then that’s because I rarely encounter arguments from the “Pro-Islam” side that amount to calls for genocide, ethnic cleansing, or other extremes (well that is obviously not counting the Islamic extremists)
Finally if you want to be known as a "Islam-Resistant Human Rights Activist" then fair enough but for simplistic sake I think I’ll keep referring to the pro/anti classification it makes things easier.
Oh and PS I never said that people getting emotional over this problem was childish, so I don’t know where you got that from, but oh well.
I've never called for genocide, ethnic cleansing, or other extreme measures, yet you constantly challenge me and others like me who make fair and substantive arguments and criticisms of Islam. Yet you never challenge anyone making substantive arguments or presenting facts in defense of Islam, even when those arguments and/or facts are blatantly flawed or false. Why not? Why not be an equal opportunity challenger of those on both sides who engage with actual arguments? If that's what you strive to be, a fair-minded, even-handed arbiter, start behaving like one.
As for radicals, the "pro-Islam" radicals are too busy actually carrying out such atrocities IN REAL LIFE unlike the "anti-Islam" keyboard radicals you see here on NV who pop in and out with a hateful comment or two (rarely an actual "argument" by the way), usually never to be seen again. Which TYPE should be taken more seriously? Why do you even waste energy on them when people are dying all over the world every day at the hands of the real life radical killers? Or, if you are having such trouble finding genocidal posters from the "pro-Islam" side, why don't you seek them out at bulletin boards where they post their hate, and challenge their hateful words with everything you've got? Such boards exist in abundance, yet your mission is exclusively here. Why?
Adam44
You know what Adam we could argue about this all day couldn’t we? I could post answers to your questions to which you’d take one part and use it to ask me more questions and that is not the reason why I started this thread, I started it so that people could post solutions not re-hash the same old arguments as to why they are correct.
PS your last question works both ways
Better make that second from last question
This is the question I'd really like an answer to, addressed directly from me to you:
I'd really like to hear your reply to this. It's not something we've hashed over before. I'll check in later and hopefully you will man up and give an honest answer. Sorry to rain on your proposed forum but I want to know that the moderator is going to be truly neutral and impartial before partaking. And if that's not the case, why not?
I'll check back later.
Adam44
Ok Adam I’ll answer the question honestly (what you make of it I leave up to you)
So there is a few reasons why I don’t jump on the “pro-Islam” posts, one is that here on MSNBC I rarely encounter them advocating such extreme solutions as the anti-crowd, second it has been my experience that most pro-posts tend to get jumped on by vast amounts of people who know the Koran much better than I do (as I said before I found it a boring read) so I have rarely felt the need to add my voice the weight of their arguments, finally since I do hold the view that Islam is not the prime motivating factor (I believe it’s a combination of factors) I don’t really encounter many in the anti-crowed that seem to want to acknowledge any other factor save Islam.
I hope these three reasons are enough and I’ll give more clarity on any others if you want it (I even have some ideas for some solutions too) but if not then I’d like to get back to what I originally purposed the thread about.
PS rest assured if I get any solutions posted by the “pro-crowed” then I’ll question those too
"And yet, Muslims continue to migrate to "infidel countries". Why is that? Is it simply about peaceful coexistence?"
Perhaps it's about a better life, like most of the folks who immigrate.
"If Islam does not modernize, and I see absolutely no sign that it ever will, then that sets up an inevitable conflict with the civilized world."
The assumption here seems to be that Muslim folks immigrate to the US and other Western countries but remain exactly the same as they were in their home countries, generation after generation. Research demonstrates that this is not so. See here: http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf While this source is a little old, it is pretty comprehensive, and the subtitle of the report pretty well sums it up: "Middle class and mostly mainstream."
What's the big deal. The usual mob members have already set the standard by posting msg after msg threatening Trayvon's shooter. Notice that Eric Holder & his co-conspirator have done NOTHING about those barbarians...
you're right. the justice department needs to go after everyone who posts lunacy on an internet message board. is that someone knocking on your door?
Muslims/Islam, It is a political movement designed to overthrow the western cultures,
In England, King Richard In the times of Robin Hood tried to stop them with the "Holy Wars" now we have Jehad they are infiltrating us and will eventually swamp us all.
Really..
So far,. how many "western cultures" have they "overthrown"??
Feel free to round up...
Janitor!
Umm you do know that King Richards Crusade was the 3rd Crusade right? And that the First Crusade was launched before he was even born? Also that his first conquest during his crusade was the Island of Greece, which was held by orthodox Christians at the time? And that his stated goal of his crusade wasn't to stop the Muslims but to recapture Jerusalem? You are aware of these little historical details aren't you?
All this can be found in this book
Janitor!
Dam it didn’t save my link, oh well if you are interested in the Crusades (and anyone else who is too) just go on to Amazon and look up Crusades Thomas Asbridge as he’s one of the leading writers/researchers on the subject right now
using "sustainable values" and religion in the same sentance is a little ridiculous. no religion has sustainable values. they are bronze age relics of our superstitious nature. their ignorance and the ignorance of their prophets and writers of their holy books, combined with the strident rightousness of their followers have reined evil on civilization for centuries.
holy books written when the pinnacle of technology was a cart pulled by a goat? all religions will fade away as a vestige of our primeval past, or they will destroy us. there is no room in the future for people that believe in talking snakes and magic underwear.
islam is at its basis the least compatible with the modern world. it is violent, misogynist, intolerant and denies basic human rights. this country, or any country would be better if they lived elsewhere.
I don't know who to believe anymore. The Shaima Alswadi note, or this one. We'll probably get blamed for it anyway. What a world we live in now.
bigots in NC ? whodda thunk ? no doubt they go to christian churches too. and believe they're "saved." i'll bet jesus can hardly wait to meet you evil people, and tell you how much EXTRA pain and suffering your hatred caused him. grow up, freaks !
Because of a few bad examples the GOP/Teabaggers has a new scapegoat to hate.
Aren't the KKK the white guys who where bedsheet burkas?
Good!!!
"The letter claims to represent a network of people in business, government and schools who plan to make life difficult for Muslims by denying them jobs, loans, medical attention and other services."
Now my Muslims brothers will see what it's like to be Black in America as they stair @ every black person that enter their establishments!
Get-them white man!
It's all Obamas' fault!!!! If he wasn't a Muslim, the world would be at peace right now. White doves would be landing on everyones shoulders and there would be harmony and bliss throughout the Earth. Damn all Democraps and Muslims!!!
Maybe we can all agree on this....msnbc leans left, fox news leans right, and we're stuck in the middle getting screwed by our own government no matter which party is in power....Money buys influence with our government and most of us don't have enough to compete with corporations. Lets make lobbying and all political contributions illegal, take the profit out of the government and run it to the benefit of ALL americans. Every time I see a politician (any politican) wearing a $3,000 suit and a $500 haircut, it makes me want to puke! Look at Edwards, look at Boehner,look at Romney, look at Obama.Edwards is Narccistic, Boehner looks like he has a stick up his a$$, Romney wears jeans because he thinks it will make him look like an everyman,and I'm still not really sure about Obama....I will say this though, the buttwipe republicans in congress and the senate voting NO to everything the President tries....is that good for America as a whole? I thought they were supposed to work FOR America,and WE are America! All the knuckleheads in washington ought to be voted out and vote in regular folks who will get the job done. Make serving in Washington like jury duty. Yes,before you all go crazy over this, I realize that it sounds nieve and it is. But I know about 300 million Americans who feel they could do a better job than the idiots we have now. We need to take care of our old and protect our young and our country,do a better job on our borders, have healthcare affordable for everone, treat all American men and women the way we would want to be treated,and put everyone who wants a job back to work.How we do this I don't know, but we need to start somewhere,and all this fighting amongst overselves is stupid because nothing is getting done except the rich get richer and the poor get the shaft,no matter which political party you belong to. We can't go back to the 50's and 60's, we need to find solutions for US,the average American for the now and the future. THANKS FOR LETTING ME RANT. Oh, one more thing...freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion. Just sayin'
Correct!
America is a great country, and in spite of nuts being everywhere from coast to coast, civility and social justice will prevail in the end!
These racist, bigoted, xenophobic types of people are a blight on America's social image - And as things do evolve through the cosmic order of things, a day of reckoning is definitely awaiting these killers of a dream!!
Social Just-US and Cosmic Order......You voted for obama?
Do they still perform lobotomies? Because the author of this letter and the members of his "network" are definitely surgical candidates.
Truth be known, these letters origins come from progressive organizations. Media trying hard to start a race war, might as well get muslims involved.
You should stop confusing your wishful thinking with actual fact.
JS in SD; Well said, you honestly said what the majority of level headed people are thinking!
That's how it is here in the Deep South. There is still a LOT of hatred, bigotry and ignorance. I always wondered why everyone I grew up with laughed at the hillbillies. After moving here, I completely understand. Some of these people are so dumb they can barely drive. It is like living in a peopleofwalmart.com world.
Not to say that there are no intelligent people here, but it is an exception rather than the norm.
*Jibril Hough* now there's a good one for you, a White Muslim with a made up name! What White family in North Carolina would name their kid Jibril? I think he wrote the letter himself to bring his little group of wanna be's into the light of the media for attention. If he likes the Muslim way of life so much, I'll buy him a one way ticket to the sandbox and he can play with all his other little buddies...
The bigotry shown on this board is nothing short of incredible for the United States of America! You people violated all America's principles of freedom and tolerance. SHAME ON YOU!
OK, Tom, which "you people" are you talking about? The highly religious people who partied drunk in strip bars before flying airplanes into buildings? The people who have murdered wives and daughters here in America claiming "family honor"? The bigoted people from Sudan who moved to Wisconsin, got jobs as taxi drivers, then refused to drive for people with alcohol or pork products? Those people? Then I totally agree with you! They have violated all the American principles of freedom and tolerance!
I think you've answered your own question!
George, the big legal case of the Muslim taxi drivers was in Minnesota, not Wisconsin - and they were primarily Somali, not Sudanese.
OK, my bad there, remembered a northern border state and immigrants - but the facts of the case are still the same.
And Tom: then you agree that the muslime world domination plan is a blight on the earth?
NO... I said you answered your own question about "you people"! If the foo shi-ts... well......
these baggers are such tools I wouldnt take their threats seriously....its just that their whole world has turned in side out...they cant vote for a mormon born in mexico (it would be against the bible )...so they have to vote for the only christian running (Obama)...and its killing them that their racist fear mongering has no effect on the youth of America which has grown up with all races and religions...they just look like OLD bitter people that frankly need to enjoy their golden years instead of putting so much effort into hate....do they want to be remembered by their families as the "mean old dude"???
As a Catholic, I would take a peaceful Islamist over an atheist any day! Although I do not subscribe to the Muslim doctrine, they under the constitution, have the right to exercisee their religion freely. They should not be persecuted, if living peacefully, for their beliefs, however, they should be persecuted for their actions if they are indeed in violation of the law of this country. Take their rights away and someone will be coming to take yours away! Leave the peaceful ones alone, go after the ones who violate the law. Simple as that!
Evenstar:
OK, you're putting us on, right? As a Catholic, you do believe in a God who cares about all the world, and who is willing to sacrifice Himself to bring his lost ones to reconciliation? A God who healed the servant of those who were taking him captive? Now, compare that with a "god" who divides the world into camps of either those who serve him, those who are enslaved, or those who must be conquered with the sword. A god who says "If you kill yourself in the process of killing non-believers, I will reward you with an eternity of debauchery." So you say THAT is preferable to those who do not believe in your God? Negative is better than nothing? Interesting logic!
A peaceful Muslim? Are you serious? That must be the most asinine statement I have ever heard. Islam and Peace do not even belong in the same sentence together. I'm trying hard not to vomit while mentally digesting that you, as a so-called Christian, would have even made such a boneheaded statement.
OH NO!...not the KLAN!...(well, could be the klan...is it?...I dont know...sounds like the klan...should we say its the klan?)...(YAWN!)...: O
How about we wait and see where and from whom the letter really originated. "Klan-like", does not necessarily mean the Klan really wrote the letter. The article already said that the name signed to the letter, was not the writer. For all we know, it could have been a Muslim extremist or some drunk from one of the local bars that wrote the letter that has no affiliation to the Klan. The writer, could have been white, black, German, Asian, Muslim or any othe culture for all we know. We have already learned in the recent weeks that MSNBC writes and changes facts to suit whatever they want their audience to believe.
Get out of my country!
Find the bigot who wrote the letter, arrest him/her for "terroristic threats", try him in open court.
Re-educating him is likely a waste of time.
p.s. in most states "terroristic threats" has been on the law books for many decades.