Right, because that would make total sense... idiot. Why do you people always have to come up with some stupid conspiracy theory to explain that people don't think exactly the way you do? Why can't you accept that certain people are actually victims?

Fringe Christian groups are involved in terrorism as well... such as the Klan. Your ignorant generalizing comes close to classifying you as one of these fringe, possibly terrorist groups, especially since you're advocating this letter.

So take a look in the mirror and ask who the real terrorist is, because the people at that Mosque are just living their (American) lives in peace.

Not quite true. Muslims are required to issue a warning wrapped in an invitation to Islam, but it's not your typical invitation. With the invitation to Islam there is a healthy reply (I accept) and an unhealthy reply (no thanks). The unhealthy reply has historically meant two and only two ensuing outcomes as set forth in the "holy" Qur'an:

Subjugation and 2nd (at best) class citizenship in the new Islamic order, so-called "Dhimmi status," or be put to the sword (nowadays knife, gun, bomb, etc).

So, overall three choices when Islam comes a'calling with its "invitation": Conversion, Subjugation under Sharia Law, or Death.

Be very, very careful with your RSVP once Islam attains a critical mass in your country.

Boo Hoo, poor christians. Have they ever heard that violence begets violence?

SaintofCircumstance

I don’t know I think people wanting assurances that Sharia Law is going to be kept out of our courts is a good thing, especially since our courts are meant to be secular. I guess it all comes down to the exact wording of the individual laws

Losmuertos, the point is that Sharia never had any possible chance of being part of our laws... the fact that they're putting up these BS anti-Sharia laws is just nonsensical and insulting to the Muslim community. As a Christian, I don't appreciate it when people try to put my personal beliefs into law either (I get pissed every time I see a law against women's rights or anti-gay marriage). I chose to live in this country because of freedom of religion and separation of church and state. I don't want my government involved with my religious beliefs, or those of anyone else.

Travis-1944

I personally I agree with you, I don’t think it’s possible for sharia Law to replace our secular law (I mean I know that the UK has some Sharia courts but their decisions can be over ruled very easily and they do not handle criminal law) but in all fairness and to quote agent Kay “people are dumb, panicky animals” and I think that the creation of these laws often comes about as a way of re-assuring people that Sharia isn’t going to take over, well that’s one reason obviously.

Losmuertos,

I know people are dumb, panicky animals, but you have to know that these laws and other styles of fear-mongering are just pandering to these people and adding fuel to the fire... they're trying to make it seem that if they hadn't made these laws, we'd all wind up under Sharia.

We shouldn't be accepting paranoid, fear mongering propaganda. It makes everything worse.

Travis-1944

Oh I know that these laws only pander to the crowds but arguably that is what politicians are supposed to do in democratic countries, after all for whatever reason the people (or a good portion of them) believe/fear that Sharia Law is going to be implemented in the west, so they want their politicians to make sure that won’t happen, now the politicians have to choices, do as the public demands and keep their power or don’t and lose their votes. With that in mind most tend to keep their votes and do what the public want.

Sorry, but the tea party is not a "good portion" of the citizenry. I'm more of the thinking that politicians should perhaps try to take the high-road, and maybe assure their constituents of the facts, rather than playing into and feeding their paranoia. I don't really think that the majority of people appreciate having wool pulled over their eyes, and the BS-shoveling that's been going on with the politicians is exhausting.

How about a little honesty for once?

Travis-1944

Honesty in politics? Well that’d be new if it ever happened, and personally I don’t think it’s just tea party members that worry about things like Sharia taking over, after all (to use England again) England does have Sharia courts, so I think when people see that, they just go “omg they are circumventing our courts with theirs” (even though these courts don’t do criminal law) which given the political nature of militant Islamists only fuels fear and mistrust, and thus motivates people to demand their leaders make sure it can never hapen to them by making anti-Sharia laws.

Again i'd like to point out that I think this is just one factor, i'm sure there are others

Again,

The high road. It would be nice... sigh.

Los, you used to deny that there were any sharia courts or sharia law in England. Now you say okay yes there are some sharia courts in England (some sanctioned under English law but many unsanctioned but with just as much or more power in the community) but what's the big deal, they don't rule on crimial matters? Pretty soon it will be something like "Well, why not just let them decide completely for themselves what justice system they want?" Indeed, why not Los?

So of course you do realize what those proliferating sharia courts are ruling on presently, don't you? Family Law, meaning a whole lot of judgments concerning women. And you do realize how women are viewed in the context of Islam, right? As so much property of men, basically. Why aren't you concerned about the rights of Muslim women as much as you are about ANYONE's rights? If it happens in Saudi Arabia, okay, we don't really have any say over that, but you're perfectly content to have it happening in your country now too, in any western society?

A Human Rights Activist Speaks Out Against Sharia Law in England:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2010/jul/05/sharia-law-religious-courts

No Religious Courts in western society. How about that.

Adam44

First off I don’t believe I ever said there weren’t Muslim courts I believe I said sharia law wasn’t taking over (big difference as many would have people believe the whole country is under Sharia law) second even though these courts are here they will never supersede the UK’s national court system especially in regards to criminal law, finally when it comes to civil law these courts also have no real power, after all consider that A their decisions can be over ruled by the national courts if they are found to be in violation of national law B they are only ever used to solve disputes such as divorce and inheritance and C both sides have to be in agreement to use them (as in the woman is not forced) now I’ll admit that not all of these bits are upheld, that due to the cultural segregation and isolation imposed by the failure of multiculturalism that many women may be forced into it and that their rulings may break UK national law, but if that isn’t reported there is not much the legal system can do.

Now I’ll admit that personally I don’t like that these courts exists at all, and that I see them as representations of the failings of multiculturalism, but unfortunately not all of society feels this way and so there is no real pressure on the government to crack down on these courts, well except that provided by groups like the EDL and BNP which are racist groups, and very few people want to be associated with them.

ps did you read my other post addressed to you? Since you didn't/haven't replied to it i'm assuming you don't have a problem with it?

Pps now i'm currious are you still annoyed with me because i said arguing about the extremism of wearing islamic headgear isn't serious?

Weekends are always tough for me and this one especially so, continuing into Monday. So will have to "be continued" on my part for now.

Before heading off though I just have to leave you with one critical question: Why have Islamic courts in Britain at all? Why?

How about no parallel justice system and no religious courts, period.

One law for one country.

Well Adam let me start by saying that you'd be better off asking a policy maker for an answer to that question as opposed to me, but I'll give it a try.

Personally I cannot see a reason (that i agree with) to have a religious parallel court/justice system in place, but then I'd extend that to include other institutions such as schools too (of all faiths) since we have Christian, Islamic and Jewish schools (well they are the ones I know of) in the UK too, however I can think of a few reasons why they are here.

First of I'd say because of Multiculturalism (which in my experience is a cause promoted by the left) as the reason/argument behind it all seems to be "well its part of their culture, and it only effects them so why not let them have it?" to which I think that Is an incredibly short sighted reason and somewhat selfish as it often amounts to "as long as they are not doing it to me"

Second I'd say that another reason could be these courts are allowed because they were already there, that because these people were using these courts to solve their problems before the courts were officially recognised, it became easier for law makers and politicians to just recognise them, especially compared to putting a stop to them, as these communities are well known for being pretty closed to outsiders.

Anyway that's what I can come up with so far, have a good weekend. Personally I'm off to play Fallout :)

"As long as they are not doing it to me."

But they are doing it to somebody else - and we don't want to get involved for fear of being labeled as "race-baiting" or "intolerant". And the cries of another victim are ignored.

Gaile Irene

“But they are doing it to somebody else”

Can you be more specific there? Who are they doing it too? Are you talking about a domestic situation where Muslim communities in western countries are imposing it (mostly) on to themselves? Or are you talking about a foreign aspect where Muslim countries are imposing it on to other countries?

I do agree though one of the biggest problems with arguing against this is to be branded a racist, yet it doesn’t help where you have blatantly racist organizations (BNP, EDL) as some of your loudest support

Domestically, where our own people are being harmed, and we ignore the harm because we fear being branded as insensitive to cultural differences.

Why harbor people that want to destroy Islam? Please self-deport.

Hey Travis... to bad u weren't visiting the World Trade Tower that DAY..then we wouldn't have to listen to ur drivel!!!

Wow, you are truly a bad person Ric. You are the reason why terrorist target us... please.... please... take a hint from the rest of the civilized world... and leave.

No... they target us because delusional multi-culturalists like u make us an easy target!!!

Right, I'm sorry, what the hell culture are you? Ric doesn't sound like Cherokee name to me. Also, as a naturalized US Citizen born in Canada who also has a Mexican citizenship, who's married to a Mexican National (also a naturalized citizen), I'm going to go ahead and tell you that multi-culturalism wins over xenophobia every time. Also, xenophobia makes everyone else think you're an ass.

wrong place, ignore.

Figures!!! Ur a double wet back!!! As a decorated Vietnam veteran and part Native American (Mohawk)..let me just say... Why don't u try to decorate a Xmas tree in Mecca next year!!!

Ric, being as I'm from the same tribe as you, and my wife's descended from a separate Native American tribe, it seems odd that you're so caught up on borders, especially in North America, where Mohawk tribes were also in what is now Canada. As a decorated Vietnam Vet, you should know better than to bring shame upon your country by hateful speech and provoking the rest of the world.

No, he was denied help because our social services and child welfare system in this country needs serious overhaul.

This exact situation could have happened in the same city, with a person of any given religion, race, or age. This exact situation DOES happen, far too often.

The Pennsylvania Supreme Court Committee on Racial and Gender Bias in the Justice System found that "African American children may be at risk of physical harm because some caseworkers believe corporal punishment is acceptable in the African American community. In such cases, African American children may not be removed from their homes while white children under similar circumstances would be removed from their parents for their protection". If this is true in Pennsylvania, why couldn't it also have happened here - not just because the boy was black, but Muslim?

Was this child sacrificed on the altar of "political correctness"?

Gaile,

Once again, as the case you stated gives evidence of, this can happen with any group, race, or religion. Why are you singling out Muslims? I had a Scottish Grandma who'd smack me around if I ever talked back... what's your point? We have thousands of cases of parents killing their children in this country... what exactly are you going for with this one?

I was a paramedic for a few years. I regularly got calls to the same exact house, where (white) drunk husband was beating his wife and kids. He would get locked up in the drunk tank, I'd set the wife's nose, bandage up the kid, and she'd go to the jail the next day to drop the charges and retrieve her scumbag husband. This happens ALL THE TIME. Muslim, christian, white black mexican or extra-freaking-terrestial, this is bloody common occurrence that is always infuriating.

Stop trying to race-bait with it.

Does it happen ALL the time, or is death More Likely to happen to specific types? The woman you write of dropped the charges - but did you ignore the child's rights because of the mother's actions? Did you report the assault on the child to CPS? Did the hospital? If the woman is putting her child in danger, aren't you supposed to report it? ..... What I am getting at is, do we excuse certain behavior because of the "type" of person doing it? Maybe we can get set aside the idea of "they" act that way, when children are involved. ... Anyway, this is a different story that came up today and I thought it could be viewed also as a type of "hate crime" coming about because of the fear of being branded as "biased". See what I mean? A mess, isn't it?

By the way, something similar is going on in a separate case I am familiar with. Maybe that's why this story hits where it hurts.

Gaile,

You keep asking hypotheticals, Is it because he's Muslim? etc. I'm telling you, it doesn't matter what race or religion they are, this happens all over the place, to all types. No, it's not because he's Muslim, it's because he's an @$$hole. They exist everywhere.

Of course I reported to CPS - which took the kids away, two months later, back again, 1 month later, I'm back, cleaning everyone up, report to CPS, took kids away... etc. etc. It's systemic.

We don't excuse people's behavior because of political correctness, right is right, wrong is wrong.

You're talking about hate crimes - hate crimes are only considered where the motive of the crime was race, religion, or sexual orientation. They're special because the aggressor targeted an innocent arbitrarily, which makes him more of a danger than a common criminal who typically has a motive.

It's not a mess, it's necessary.

I understand you may be going through a situation that is bothering you, however, race-baiting with hypothetical questions isn't going to help anything.

Short Answer - No, they didn't receive special treatment because of their religion.

Long answer - No, they didn't receive special treatment because of their religion, the child was ignored because we do not have a child protective services in this country that can deal with all of the A-hole parents.

I am glad you did what you needed to do - perhaps having the children removed for a time helped. They got to see how "other people" live.

It bothers me when you say "race baiting". If I complain that someone is allowed to get away with a crime because of their race, or religion, or foreign background - in effect held to a lower standard because of it - that is "race baiting"? I call it "seeking justice".

In the case of the other child I am thinking of, who is alive - I believe the judge would not have expressed admiration for the father beating his child about homework if the father had been American and white. The judge was, perhaps subconsciously, upholding what she perceived to be a foreign values system, perhaps to the detriment of the safety of the child.

I don't want to hold you up, since you appear to be firmly convinced that the murder had nothing to do with (race, religion .... you said race and then changed it to religion). People get murdered because they get murdered! And children get ignored by CPS because they get ignored by CPS! Cheers.

Gaile,

Just to be clear, I'm very much against holding people to different standards of conduct due to race, religion, or sexual orientation. I simply do not believe the problem is as wide spread as certain media politicians and news outlets would lead people to believe.

Simply put, there is never an excuse to abuse a child. We live in an imperfect, injust world. We do the best we can and hope for the best.

Saudi Arabia is irrelevent. There's no sense mentioning it. it's about OUR country. And yes, i would BET that bigotry is on the rise, helped in no small way by the GOP, who has been catering to the angry white man since Nixon!

Republican Presidential Candidate Mitt Romney to Speak at Hate Group Conference

http://pamshouseblend.firedoglake.com/2012/04/25/republican-presidential-candidate-mitt-romney-to-speak-at-hate-group-conference/

@ Jeff,

I too have heard that the letter may have been self written. If so, then that could constitute filing a false report along with the public backlash that would surely ensue. If the letter is genuine, then whomever did write it, if apprehended, could be charged with conspiracy, conspiracy to cause bodily harm, conspiracy to terrorism, and maybe even charged under the RICO act. They could even make it more harsh if they tack on the Hate Crime clause.

Making terrorst threats is on the Nebraska books, and on most other states'.

Yep, WAR etc., it seems it's been happening a lot recently. Now, is it psychological, cultural, social or political influences at work in such cases? Warning: give any conceivable answer and you will be attacked as being either (a) racist; (b) race-baiting; (c) pro-Sharia; (d) biased; (e) intolerant; (f) ignorant; or (g) all of the above.

Gaile,

As for D and F, yes, I am biased against ANY religion that espouses killing in God's name, the subjugation of women and intolerance of others points of view and beliefs, ( pretty much all religions ). As for A and B, Muslim/Islam is not a race, it is a religion. Caucasian, Negro, Hispanic etc., are races of humans. Not Christian, Muslim, Hari Krishna, etc. They are religions. You cannot be racist toward a religion. That's just asinine. As for C, it is the law part of Islam. Again, You cannot be racist toward a religion. It is not a person, it is a set of beliefs.

Personally, I don't believe in any religion. They all have their problems. Namely, trying to control other peoples live. I will live my life and raise my family the best way I see fit without someone else telling me how to do it. I think I've done a good job so far without them in my business.

You took my comment seriously and in detail. I was venting. But thank you for listening. Good points.

War Ranger:

yeah yeah.... everybody has connections to the secrets of the government when no sources can be provided to prove what one says.

But you CAN be racist towards the PEOPLE of a religion!!

Addendum to my above comment. The first sentence should have been D and E, not F. As for F, yes I will say I am ignorant of them because from what I have seen and experienced, they have absolutely nothing I want or need except how to stay as far away from them as possible. No one can order me to interact with them anymore, so I'll just choose to stay ignorant.

@ Tom,

Who said it was a goverment secret? I didn't. I just happened to have retired from the Army 5 months ago. I do still have friends who are still in. One happens to be a fellow SMG whom works on occasion with the DEA and ATF. We happened to be talking about it and he said that it looked like an inside job from what he heard. He passed along no secrets that I know of, and I signed no non-disclosure documents, so I figured the scuttlebutt should roll downhill. My concern over whether you believe it or not could get no more miniscule. Take it as you will. I could care less.

As for being racist toward a people because of their religion? That to me, just sounds stupid. I may not care for their religion, but that does not mean you cannot interact with them. Just keep your beliefs to yourself. Don't preach to me or expect me to follow your tenets. I neither need nor want it.

WHAT????? What are you talking about?? Are you George Lucas trying to make another film?

Righto, Mario! Open your mouth to say something once, and be labeled forever! LOL!

Obviously George Lucas would not waste his time on Netvine.

Only the person isn't nameless. A woman's name is signed to the letters.

" killing Muslims legally" would entail me to believe that if the letter is genuine, the author or authors are ex-military. That is about the only way we were able to " legally kill them ", and then only within the set rules of engagement. Outside of the death penalty and combat, I don't think there is some way to legally kill another person.

Didn't they say the words were lifted out of some KKK manual?

The Moderators banned all my 11 Bravo jokes a long time ago.

Mario, Dude, don't rag on the Infantry! I'll apologize for my George Lucas remark, O.K.? I just couldn't think of anything wittier to say. My sense of humor leaves a lot to be desired. Not all grunts are dumb. That's only in the Marine Corps. That's why their called " jarheads ", their heads and brains are so small that they could fit in a jelly jar! HA! HA! HA!

SGM -

One philospher I like said:

"A soldier can be just as stupid as anyone else, but he hadn't better be."

It's too dangerous a profession for that.

Nobody should harass them. However, it is not clear that this was a bona fide threat or harassment.

Whenever the word "Islam" or "Muslim" is mentioned some people go crazy. Either they are extremely anti- or extremely pro-. Whatever you say, people on both sides are ready to pounce on you.

It's easier to stick to news about Buddhists and the weather.

Find the bigot who wrote the letter, arrest him/her for "terroristic threats", try him in open court.

Re-educating him is likely a waste of time.

p.s. in most states "terroristic threats" has been on the law books for many decades.

Both Foreign And Domestic.