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Subscribe to RSSWASHINGTON - A nearly three-year-long investigation by Senate Intelligence Committee Democrats is expected to find there is little evidence the harsh "enhanced interrogation techniques" the CIA used on high-value prisoners produced counter-terrorism breakthroughs.
People familiar with the inquiry said committee investigators, who have been poring over records from the administration of President George W. Bush, believe they do not substantiate claims by some Bush supporters that the harsh interrogations led to counter-terrorism coups.
The backers of such techniques, which include "water-boarding," sleep deprivation and other practices critics call torture, maintain they have led to the disruption of major terror plots and the capture of al-Qaida leaders.
One official said investigators found "no evidence" such enhanced interrogations played "any significant role" in the years-long intelligence operations which led to the discovery and killing of Osama bin Laden last May by U.S. Navy SEALs.
'Tortured' Gitmo prisoner seeks release of secret videos
The debate over the effectiveness of enhanced interrogations, which human rights advocates condemn as torture, is resurfacing in part because of a new book by a former top CIA official.
In the book, "Hard Measures," due to be published on Monday, the former chief of CIA clandestine operations Jose Rodriguez defends the use of interrogation practices including water-boarding, which involves pouring water on a subject's face, which is covered with a cloth, to simulate drowning.
John Moore / Getty Images
President Obama's one-year deadline to close the facility has long passed as shutting it down has proven complicated and controversial.
"We made some al-Qaida terrorists with American blood on their hands uncomfortable for a few days," Rodriguez says in an interview with CBS News' "60 Minutes" that will air on Sunday. "I am very secure in what we did and am very confident that what we did saved American lives."
Expert: War on terror at 'critical' point as al-Qaida looks to regroup in Africa
For nearly three years, the Senate intelligence committee's majority Democrats have been conducting what is described as the first systematic investigation of the effectiveness of such extreme interrogation techniques.
The CIA gave the committee access to millions of pages of written records charting daily operations of the interrogation program, including graphic descriptions of how and when controversial techniques were employed.
The wives and children of Osama bin Laden are taken to a chartered flight out of Islamabad after being deported to Saudi Arabia.
Sources agreed to discuss the matter on condition of anonymity because the report has not been finalized.
The committee members' objective is to conduct a methodical assessment of whether enhanced interrogation techniques led to genuine intelligence breakthroughs or whether they produced more false leads than good ones.
Report: Bin Laden told followers to kill Obama, Petraeus
U.S. intelligence officials have acknowledged that while the harshest elements of the interrogation program, including water-boarding and other tactics which cause severe physical stress, were in use, the CIA never carried out a scientific assessment of the program's effectiveness.
The Bush Administration only used water-boarding on three captured suspects. One of them was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, the mastermind of the September 11, 2001 attacks.
Farooq Naeem / AFP - Getty Images
U.S. forces found and killed the al-Qaida leader in the affluent Pakistani town of Abbottabad, where he had been living in a large compound.
Other coercive techniques included sleep deprivation, making people crouch or stretch in stressful positions and slamming detainees against a flexible wall.
The CIA started backing away from such techniques in 2004. Obama banned them shortly after taking office.
One source cautioned there could still be lengthy delays before any information or conclusions from the Senate committee's report are made public.
Hidden in plain sight: Inside a secret CIA prison
One reason the inquiry has taken so long is that in 2009, committee Republicans withdrew their participation, saying the panel would be unable to interview witnesses to ensure documentary material was reported in appropriate context due to ongoing criminal investigations.
Current and former U.S. officials have said one key source for information about the existence of the al-Qaida "courier" who ultimately led U.S. intelligence to bin Laden was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.
KSM, as he was known to U.S. officials, was subjected to water-boarding 183 times, the U.S. government has acknowledged.
Officials said, however, that it was not until some time after he was water-boarded that KSM told interrogators about the courier's existence. Therefore a direct link between the physically coercive techniques and critical information is unproven, Bush administration critics say.
Supporters of the CIA program, including former Vice President Dick Cheney, have portrayed it as a necessary, if distasteful, step that may have stopped extremist plots and saved lives.
Former Vice President Dick Cheney discusses his new memoir, "In My Time," with TODAY's Matt Lauer. In the exclusive interview, Cheney defends the Iraq war, says waterboarding "worked" and tells Lauer the greatest achievement of the Bush administration was preventing further attacks on U.S. soil after 9/11.
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This is just more evidence, not that we need anymore, that repubs are nothing more than COWARDS, INCOMPETENTS, LIARS, RACISTS and MORONS.
Every philosophy the preach whether it is:
These philosophies have ALL turned out to be COMPLETE FAILURES; but instead of learning any lessons from these FAILURES, these low lifes first, claim they work then lie and blame the serious people (democrats) who are always having to clean up their mess.
repubs, just crawl back under the rocks you slithered out from...
Your posting is only evidence of your juvenile statement and lack of tolerance and diversity.
Education is bad is some sort of philosophy? If so, sounds like your a Republican judging by the stupidity of the contents of that last post.
ScottWilk: My guess is that you don't know anyone that ever wore the uniform, you never wore the uniform, you never would wear the uniform, if you had a son you wouldn't permit him to wear the uniform. In short you are the kind of creature quite prepared to let someone else protect you so you can skim off the cream from the safety the brave man provides. You are the kind that hides in the cupboard when trouble comes. You are the kind of guy, just like Bill Clinton, who lies to avoid military service. Clinton in his own words, "I loath the military." and "I'm too smart I'll let the dummies to it."You are the kind of weasel that honorable men have always scorned.
Do you really think these Democrats would admit to anything positive if they found it? Of course not.
You must not have gotten the memo, all democrats are good people, if they werent atheists theyd all be angels, they would never ever lie to anyone.
I bet if you ask ten liberals if George Zimmerman should have his fingers cut off one by one, nine would say yes. But when it comes to waterboarding our enemies, the same liberals want to be Hanoi Jane.
Vermontguy thought Zim was hot.
Would it be ok for our enemies to waterboard an American citizen? After all, we are THEIR enemy, too.
Sure, why not? War is hell. Waterboarding is the least of our worries. BTW, our enemies take it one step further. They cut our heads off.
I'll bet if you ask 100 liberals if Zimmerman should have his fingers cut off, 99 would say 'no'. The other one would actually be a confused conservative (would that make him a 'libertarian'?).
We'd like the law to go to work in his case, not the inquisitor.
We probably have 100 liberals on this board. Go ahead and ask them.
When I see info from one party during an election year that speaks down on the other party, I take little notice of it. Just more free attack ads by MSNBC.
The Senate Committee is nothing more than political propaganda. Most of them are overpaid and will do whatever they are told. Pawns of the Obamite Administration. Truth? These people could not find their own ass if they stick their own hands in their back pockets. Believe on Obamites.
During the Vietnam War is was not uncommon to take a group of known Vietcong for a ride in a Huey to have a little chat. If one of them decided to jump out at 1,200 feet, it is amazing how talkative the rest usually became. Not that I am justifying this activity just stating the fact that this is nothing new. In the history of warfare this kind of activity has always gone on. More is heard about it now due to media coverage, technology and the internet. Medical science has now advanced to the point where there exist means by which a person could be chemically interrogated with no long lasting ill effects to their body or their mind.
Yeah, they may talk alright. At the least, they'll tell you anything you want to hear. More likely they'll give you strategic misinformation to make you chase your tail for a while.
I can't wait for the GOP to take over again! This way our country can start more senseless wars, war crimes, wars against women, middle class and average workers all so the rich and military contractors can make more $$! I'm sure they'll also use more fear tactics to take away more of our rights and civil liberties. Hopefully we can get the tax rate for the rich down to 1% (it will trickle down, don't worry) and pay for it by ending the EPA, medicare, medicaid and social security!!
Listen to yourself and then see how ironic it is that youre saying its the other side using 'fear tactics'
Seriously, do you even understand how ridiculous and hypocritical you are?
The adverse effects of damage to the United State's reputation far exceed any beneficial effects of information gained by the use of torture.
That's like saying if the Dallas Cowboys would not hit the Washington Redskins so hard, the two teams would get along better. Ain't going to happen.
Road Warrior, so you'd be ok with another country doing these things to an American citizen? or are they only ok for us to do?
I doubt any American would be ok with ANY torture being done to our own. What does that matter?? Its still has happened ands will continue to happen no matter what our policey on that will be. Keep living in your own lil world the WE are the bad guys and the terrorists are misunderstood and the result of all our misdeeds. They just need a little love and then they we stop trying to hurt us right?
There's our Congress on display....right on top of things taking 3 years to tell us something WE ALL ALREADY KNEW.
The Bush administration was the most incompetent, wrongheaded, ill-advised and inept group of individuals in our government EVER. The level of damage, death and destruction these idiots left in their wake is nigh criminal and most certainly immoral.
We'll be back in 193 days. LOL
These "enhanced interrogation techniques": Would you all be ok with them if another country did them to an American citizen, or it is only ok when WE do it?
Darth Cheney should have been water boarded at the beginning of the Iraq war. Then we would have known all the lies and deceptions he was telling Americans. Also his Halliburton plan that netted him many millions of dollars would have been outed. Thousands of my fellow braves soldiers lives would have been spared and trillions of dollars saved too. Cheney=evilest American of all time! A war criminal! They have arrest warrants for Cheney in Europe!
I Imagine the dead person who's heart went to Darth Cheney must be turning over in his grave! Satan rejoices his righthand man lives to spread more evil!
Whos SATAN rejoicing over? The OBAMINATION?
Would anyone expect "Senate Intelligence Committee Democrats" to report differently. Instead of spending three years on a witch hunt, why didn't they spend it legislating? Democrats control the Senate; they could have been working on, say, a budget.
This article is just biased propaganda to stir up hatred for the Bush administration for the purpose of connecting Romney to Bush via their common party affiliation; the obvious goal is to divert attention from Obama's record and have people vote "against" Romney instead of voting "for" Obama.
This article is weak and shallow, but makes for a good bit of humor over a cup of coffee.
Bush and Cheney are absolutely lucky that Obama didn't hold them accountable for their war crimes. They should both be rotting in jail for the rest of their lives!
Have to agree with you whole hearted SS68. But on the brighter side, it puts all of the Dems/Libs in a good morning as they go out this morning to hug a tree!
Steveo, you are entitled to your opinion and I respect your position. But, it still does not change the obvious purpose of this political ad mascarading as a news piece.
Of course there is no evidence. Numerous studies have shown that torture is not an effective means of getting reliable information. The only people that seem to be defending the practice are those who were involved in it, who knowingly broke the law and now try to defend themselves using national security as a shield.
The question of whether it "helped" or not is completely irrelevant. Torture is a crime, plain and simple. I do not recall in either federal or International law where it says that torture is illegal only if it doesn't help!!! If murder helps my personal problems and bank robbery helps my financial problems then they are legal?
#1 Water boarding is used by our Special Operations training cadres to train soldiers to resist torture. It SAYS so in the manual. This is a fact that the Commander in Chief and the Secretary of Defense would know.
#2 The use of Torture is illegal under Federal law, International law and the Geneva Convention.
#3 Bush Administration knew about the above facts and there is substantial evidence to suggest that they actually met and discussed the above and how to present it to the People as something else.
Now, from a Federal Prosecutors view point we have knowledge of the fact that our own military considers it torture, that the use of torture is illegal in all jurisdictions and a plan to cover it up using media spin, which adds conspiracy to obstruct justice to the charges. Because of the sheer volume of evidence against Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Rice the question of whether or not they broke the law is silly. Of COURSE they did.
The question is why is the Obama Justice Department defending them, even to the point of intimidating the Spanish Court system, who were planning on indicting them. That little fact came out in the Wikki Leaks documents. Why do you think they are so pissed at Bradley Manning? This poor kid saw freaking felonies being committed and reported it in the safest way he knew how. What do we do? Kill the messenger, that's what!!!!
This group of Gangsters, because that is EXACTLY what they are, spent 8 years literally looting this country and we are so freaking afraid about how the rest of the freaking world will see us that we ignore it. NEWS FLASH AMERICA: Its too freaking LATE!!!! The rest of the world ALREADY knows what hypocrites American leaders are!!!! The only people on the planet that do NOT know that the American political system is bought and paid for are AMERICANS, who chose to live in a constant state of denial.
They had no intention of "presenting it to the people". It was part of a clandestine operation. The question here is .....the definition of torture. "water boarding" pales in comparison to some of the things that our troops and some innocents have suffered at the hands of terrorist cells all around the world. These are BAD guys ......harboring many other BAD guys. The gangsters are the extremists who have turned this world upside down.
I support 110% the use of enhanced interrogation techniques. Probably in many cases it did eventually help break down the subject. Is it 100% effective? No as there are those who have the wherewithall to resist. But it also has a secondary effect, it sends a message to these a-holes that we are not going to play nice and read them their Miranda rights.
You liberal nuts are so quick to shame and call out the very people who defend your freedoms from those who mean you great harm. None of you get it, none of you will ever get it. There are dark things that must be done by men and women in the shadows to protect the needs of the many.
Why don't some of you visit Langley sometime and see the wall with the black stars. Those are the men and women who must remain unnamed who have died in the line of duty to protect you. Get on your knees and pray for them and give thanks for them.
Thanks for the advice retarded rambo! There is no evidence at all that torture works, so we should continually break international law and the Geneva convention so that the rest of the world hates us even more and puts our own soldiers in more danger? But you right wing nuts love starting unnecessary circumstances that lead to more soldiers being dead!
Why do liberals idolize Mao and Castro when they have murdered millions in the name of social justice, and you call the US the Great Satan when we pour water on a few enemy combatants' faces?
Really? So, its OK to break the law as long as it "helps"? Why don´t we just nuke all of them and forget about it? NOW, that would be "effective", so why not? Its OK for the police to just walk into your home and start searching because it might catch a criminal or two?
You know its funny. You Repugnant Republicans cheered while Bush was saying "they hate us for our freedoms" while at the same time he and his gang were busy stripping all of our freedoms away. You DO know that with the new Defense Appropriation Act that they can now arrest you with no charges, enhance the crap out of YOUR interrogation, offer no attorney and hold you indefinitely? Do you GET that? THIS is why we have laws and a Constitution: To protect people who are too stupid to protect themselves.
And would someone PLEASE tell Republicans that the freaking Cold War is freaking OVER and has been for nearly 30 years? I am SOOOOO tired of these nutcases like Palin with her "I can see Russia from my front porch" and Alan West saying that most Democrats in Congress are members of the Communist Party. PLEASE, someone drag these Neanderthals kicking and screaming if necessary into the 21st century with the rest of us? Please? And Road Warrior? Try listening to something other than Fox News and you might actually KNOW that Communism is freaking DEAD!!!
Next time instead of waterboarding maybe they should have YOU hug and carress those questioned. Perhaps in the face such kindness our enemies will spill their guts to you and then we can invite those names mentioned in the interrogation to one big tea party and talk about our feelings over Bon Bons.
Steveo.....If you were about to have your head sawed off live on the internet you would be praying for some well informed Marines to bust in and save your sorry Azz . ...
Carlo,
Please don't compare protecting our citizens with protecting our enemies. Leave that to Hanoi Jane and the Dixie Chicks.
NO-BAMA12 and Road Warrior-252445, I spent 12 years with the 75th Ranger Regiment and during MY training I was water boarded, several times, in training. Unlike you Road Warrior, I wasnt demeaning our military, I was demeaning the group of CRIMINALS who people like you voted into office because, well, golly gee, you would sure like to have a beer with them!!! And Road Warrior, I just love the way you scream about your freedom of speech while allowing people to vilify the Dixie Chicks for exercising that very same freedom!!! What a bunch of hypocrites!!!
Since you guys were never in the military let me tell you about the oath soldiers take. We swear do defend the United State CONSTITUTION from ALL enemies, foriegn AND domestic. That includes rogue politicians. The guy you love so much? He was an alcoholic and drug addict for most of his adult life. He was a coward during Vietnam, barely reporting or duty at a freaking National Guard post, he failed at every business he ever touched (despite having heavy money from the Saudis) and was investigated by the Securities and Exchange Commission for insider trading THREE TIMES. Dick Cheney got FIVE deferrments during Vietnam and has been linked to literally DOZENS of scandals, including the Contras. THESE are the guys people like YOU support.
Yeah, your REAL Americans!!!
Carlo, as a Ranger, did you work with SF and CIA guys who used these techniques to extract information? Where you able to plan ops better based on the information received? If those performing the interrogations got bad info, were there additional "sessions" with the prisoner?
Hmmmmmm a bunch of liars, thieves and petty criminals investigated allegations of "torture" with a political agenda and pre-determined conclusion in mind and found exactly what they had promised to find before the investigation even began.
If you are stupid enough to believe anything this "panel" of America hating criminals discovered in their "investigation", you are probably stupid enough to believe MSNBC is not a mouthpiece for socialism.
The people who were DIRECTLY involved in these interrogations - those who were actually in the rooms, as opposed to those who were sitting in an office in Langley - nearly all say that torture actually set us back. Meanwhile, the people whose positions depend on politics, rather than results, say things like, "I'm very secure that these methods saved American lives," and they can never support those claims with direct evidence. Instead, they support their claims with a series of logically fallacious arguments - red herrings, changes of subject, affirming the consequent, or ad-hominem attacks.
Typically these logical fallacies cause their spineless, weak-willed opponents to back down. After all, one can never be seen as "less patriotic" than the torturers.
Ultimately, torture always fails, even if it appears to "work" in the very short term. Ask the Israelis, who lost the moral high ground in the early 1980s and who will never reclaim it. Creating enemies faster than you can kill them is a stupid strategy, unless, of course, your real strategy is to create a permanent war.
Steveo-2875317 - First-off, you should apoligize for the name calling. No one called you anything derogatory, at least I did not. Secondly, when have you ever served your country? I have twice previously and currently am doing so. Lastly, you should learn that it is far better to listen than to speak sometimes, especially when speaking about things far above your paygrade.
I for one could care less about what the world opinion is of me, my countrymen, or my country. Torture is an ugly affair, but seriously? It's been going on for thousands of years and quite frankly what we do today is quite tame to even 100 years ago.
I believe that we need to do whatever it takes to accomplish our mission. This country always manages to come up with some bleeding hearts that feel we should turn the other cheek. There has never been a war that was fought without casualties and never will be. Like the old adage says , do unto others before they do unto you.
You are aware that your post doesn't actually say anything, right? Notwithstanding that I have still not heard any realistic mission which we are in the midst of accomplishing, it it meaningless to just say that we should 'do whatever it takes' to get there. Are you trying to argue that the ends justify the means? Whatever we do is fine with you, so long as someone says that we are doing it to 'accomplish the mission'? Your post is unclear.
Do you think there is only one way to accomplish a mission? When we were in that cold war with the USSR; we could have accomplished the mission by dropping a bunch of nukes on them, or by using a ground invasion, or any number of things. Are all of those options the same to you, because they are all 'accomplishing the mission'?
Or are you simply saying you don't care at all? And if that's the case, why would you think that anybody else would care to read that you don't care?
Think we can bomb countries endlessly and no one is going to get pissed ?
Security have been creating bad guys to keep them in the $$ forever.
This "good vs bad" BS has got to stop , we create "bad".
Here we go again. AMERICA is the new EVIL EMPIRE. WE are the root of most or all of the problems in the world. I guess America just needs to fail and fall so the RIGHTEOUS rest of the world can have peace then.
Nothing new about anything. We are the root of whatever problems we are the root of. America just needs to do the right thing. When it doesn't, it is the duty of the citizenry to point that out, since we are responsible for what we allow our country to do.
Your invective is a weird, over the top, knee jerk reaction to a philosophy which seems to exist only the minds of the self-righteous right.
Bush and Cheney lied and brave soldiers died. What's especially sicking is that Cheney the yellow,coward Chickenhawk had FIVE deferments. Of course he had: other priorities!
Tony, the Bush administration had exactly ONE person with actual military experience as it main adviser and HE QUIT!!! Colin Powell wanted nothing to do with what was going on. General Eric Shinseki did the same thing over Iraq.
Carlo and Tony, what about the intelligence from foreign sources and prior adminiatrations. What about the comments from the Clinton administration saying that Iraq had WMD?
I'll not say that it was a wise decision to go to Iraq, but what proof do you have that anyone actually lied? There may have been bad intelligence, but....
To every whiner post here ... If you're an American, you're just as culpable as the torturers. You still have your gasoline, your air-conditioned residence, more than enough food to eat, your big flat screen TeeVee's, your big fat asses, etc., etc., etc. Islam/Muslims/Terrorists recognize no law except sharia, no country, no civilization, so why should we follow law with them? They would wipe us from the planet with impunity in an instant if they could. If torture saved even one American life, so be it. Have you noticed what Muslims do to their captives or are you just blind and stupid? A barbaric, blood-lust, totalitarian ideology, Islam, cannot be dealt with in a civilized manner. It's only going to get worse. Enjoy your idiotic denial while you can.
The old "eye-for-an-eye" Pray Hard? Here is the deal that even a Christian can understand. First of all it was the United States that used the political capital gained after WWII to kick millions of Palestinian families from their homes in 1948 to establish the State of Israel. The Israelis ONLY claim to that land? Well, according to them, about 4500 years ago "God" told Abraham that it was all his. Thats it. Nothing else. Now tell me Mr. Pray Hard. How would you feel if the Chinese came to power, ruled the UN, and told you that you had to leave to give the Native Americans (who have a MUCH better claim than the Jews-10,000 years of residency) your home and all you own?
Mr. Pray Hard, the Jewish people were given that land by Christians who believe that crap in Revelation about the end wont come until they are back in Jerusalem!!! Your right, this IS a religious war. No doubt about it. But the war was started by CHRISTIANS trying to follow some Bronze Age nonsense. We supported Saddam. We supported the Shah in Iran. All of the horrible dictators we talk so bad about now were actively supported by American Administrations, especially Republican ones.
What you need to do my praying friend is to get off your knees and go to the library. Take some time to learn about the Hyksos and the Khasar empire. Take some time and learn about the REAL history of the Jewish people. This stuff comes from real historical records and archeological findings, not from the ramblings of some desert goat herder high on magic mushrooms.
The vast majority of my fellow soldiers agree that torture seldom works. Most confessions are false as studies have proven. Using the right psychological techniques is far more effective. Of course the supporters of Cheney,most who are yellow cowards themselves will support torture.
No good fruit comes from bad seeds. No good comes from lies and deceit, it never did and never will.
Which way do the winds blow today for Romney and where will he be tomorrow? Would you honestly bet your life on this mans soul?
Obama/Biden 2012
Depends on what you call 'good'. We got lots of territory and money because of lies and deceit (and cold-blooded murder). Don't you like Hawaii?
Our righteous values exist only in our minds. The reality is that lies and deceit (and murder) pay off in cash. For a society which rewards greed with stature and accolades and political power, that reality means we can never become what so many of us say we already are: righteous.
We need a new bible. The old one didn't work.