a second degree murder trial, will cost every bit of the money raised, legal experts, forensic analysis, re-creation video, lawyers fees,living expenses while in hiding, depositions(in Florida pre-trial depositions are allowed), unless the Judge at the hearing dismiss the charges; the prosecutor is already in trouble with the Florida bar association, her affidavit left out several mitigating facts, witness statements, Zimmerman's statements, EMT report, injury's to Zimmerman, prior history of Trevor (submitted under seal), all were not included to the Judge, she could be in contempt of court and in violation of the law.

zim 63 allen deushwitch(sic), a Harvard law professor has brought it to the attention of the Florida bar(they will not comment on a complaint until they finish their investigation).

cooch 192...; there was no court appointed lawyer , therefore indigant was not at issue, plus the Vero institute(they post bond for indigents for free) did not post his bond, the family borrowed the bond fees and put their house up as collateral, plus signed a note for the entire amount.

I do think he deserves a fair trial. What happens to the funds if it gets thrown out?

"Zimmerman and the conservative NRA mentality are the symptoms of a much larger disease that is plagueing America. Ignorance."

Hey ill give the govt my weapons when gangs within walking distance from my house give up theirs. xD
The only practical mentality now is that guns should have never been made in the first place... but now we already have them and too many people will most likely not give them up if they had to. The problem is, for your mentality, is that not everyone has as much control as you over their actions. Not everyone thinks about their actions as much as you might. Sometimes though... people just get plain desperate. Their are too many guns that will never even be kept track of let alone locked up or destroyed. I will not be helpless to the next person who will kill to get what he/she wants. On a more random note: About every 1 in 100 people are psychopaths.

As for zimmerman, I personally think he's most likely guilty.

@Skorned, you are so full of it. You are also the symptom of a disease.

What did I say that was false marinmom? Would you like to discuss it, or are you full of hot, carbon filled, air?

He is father is a former magistrate with tons of legal experience, you dope. Not like he is a poor schmuck with nothing. He is a shmuck though but certain not lacking in legal expertise.

There are now stories appearing that the "special prosecutor" who filed the charges may be guilty of filing purgerious charges because she failed to include evidence supportive of Zimmerman's defense. This includes evidence she was aware of such as photos of him taken minutes after the shooting that clearly show his head cut and bloody. By law, she is required to include mention of ALL evidence she is aware of, and in this case she CLEARLY did not. It's looking more and more like George Zimmerman is also a victim here.

I called a attorney friend of mine in Florida, (one of the best known AV rated); he showed me that the probable cause affidavit is published on a web site from Cornell law school, at legal insur.com, i just read it, very interesting in that the prosecutor said Zimmerman referred to the person as a PUNK, (not a coon), looks as and jessee and al were wrong. in reading the affidavit I do believe the prosecutor may be in trouble with the court, and the bar association, the 4th amendment and all supreme court ruling from the U.S. and Fla. all state that it must contain all relevant facts of probable quilt or innocence, she left out a lot of stuff.

Zimmerman won't see a penny of the money, his lawyer will make sure of that.

Background article from Yahoo!:

If it will even let me post it. If not, search for it on Yahoo! for those that are interested. It gives previously unreported details about Zimmerman's background and past events in his life that may have affected his decision making.

Aaaaand it didn't post. The title of the article is "George Zimmerman: Prelude to a shooting". Posters will need to do there own research on this one.

GREAT point, Bill. But I notice none of the race-baiters have commented on this- BIG surprise!

I'm not sure how many times it has to be said, written or typed, but Zimmerman and his family do not have access to those funds, it was raised for the sole purpose of covering legal fees. Regardless of what any of us think about his guilt or innocence, it would make little sense to revolk bail on grounds that they have more money than they originally declared...when that money cannot be accessed by said party.

Beyond that, the special prosecutor has some serious problems here. Murder 2 is going to be an extremely dificult charge to prove (If it's possible at all), given the circumstances, lack of witnesses to the actual event, and so on. There's likely tons of data that we, the Public are not privy to. But, thus far, it seems like it's going to be an impossible task to come away with a guilty verdict.

I sincerely feel for Trayvon's family, I really do. But, they are just as guilty as the rest of us of rushing to judgement, of course, I can excuse their reaction, as they are the ones most impacted by this tragic incident. I hope a fair trial is given, and that both parties are satisfied with the outcome. Cooler heads must prevail in this case. Letting it get out of control will only lead to bad things.

Pyrrhic Victory

Background article from Yahoo!:

If it will even let me post it. If not, search for it on Yahoo! for those that are interested. It gives previously unreported details about Zimmerman's background and past events in his life that may have affected his decision making.

Here's the link : http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/25/us-usa-florida-shooting-zimmerman-idUSBRE83O18H20120425

Might not be a thug, but he is a racist. Why else would everything he reported stated that the person he is seeing is black.

...and we get a fine example of what the libs did in order to mold the sheeples minds and make this a race issue. NBC doctored the 911 tapes they played on the air Susie. The dispatcher of the 911 call asked Zimmerman the race of the man he was chasing. He answered, he looks black.

You should be pissed that you were deceived, but I doubt you are.

I do not belong to the NRA, Nor would I. I do not belong to a Union, nor would I again. But I gave money to Zimmerman because he shouldn't be on trial anyway. And if anyone knows anything about the Castle Law and stand your ground law you would know it. That is why they didn't arrest him right of the get. The law didn't allow for it. The only reason he was arrested was all the news coverage. None of these news has ever told the real story about the law. That don't make for good news. Zimmerman is not guilty. He can't be according to the Law in Fl.

In all the posts, no mention of the fact that Mr. Zimmerman was the one who initiated the pursuit, and continued doing that after the suggestion by the police dispatcher no to. I think that Mr. Zimmerman did a few additional things that directly caused a confrontation. The actual shooting may turn out to be an accident, but the ultimate cause is Mr. Zimmerman looking for trouble. And he got it! Having said that, he still deserves a fair trial!

Thank GOD the prosecutor might be in trouble. We cannot play trial by media. The public should NOT be allowed to pressure a prosecutor into making charges against someone when there is NO evidence.

She's an idiot and her case will fail. If the prosecution doesn't get their act together (and it's looking more and more like they won't) then Zimmerman is going to walk, which is fine with me. I think he acted in self defense after Martin attacked him, but that's just my opinon based on what I've seen, read, and watched in the bond hearing.

If their evidence is anything like I saw at the bond hearing... well... they have nothing, and it's laughable.

Oh, no waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay do we bow down to public pressure. Absolutely not, no sir, no way, no how. But we are going to slap this man with 2nd degree murder charges when we can't even tell who started to attack who first (straight from the witness stand at the bond hearing, btw.) The prosecution doesn't even know what happened.

I hope the prosecutor faces charges, when she read the charges against Zimmerman, I wanted to vomit. She was so fake, and obviously doing it to only appeal to the public, which is NOT how the legal system should operate.

Casey Anthony, anyone?

And what exactly is the difference between killing someone in self defense and Florida's stand your ground law? I'm not sure, but if I killed someone while I was under attack, I might walk because it was in self defense, and I am not in Florida.

Oh! No he said black. Now that makes you racist. Sorry Politicaly correct term should have been.

zimmerman: I see a suspitious perosn

911 dispach: is he hispanic, black, white.

Zimmerman: African American

LOL!! You people kill me.!!! To say white is just as bad, shouldn't that have been Cocasion . Zimmerman is no thug. He was doing his job. Followed someone suspicious and called the police. when he was instructed to stop following TM. he continued to follow for a short time before TM took off. At which time he tells the Dispach on the 911 call he lost him. (where is the stocking). All you people can bull crap all you want but if someone was suspicious in your neighbor hood that had break ins. You would follow and call also. Your liers to say other wise and race has nothing to do with it. TM came back to face GZ for what (this is the question) WHY DID HE COME BACK!! This is not justice!! This is a bunch of riding the black (I must be racist) sympathy card. Well, sorry to all you whinny, black panter, cry babies, you all can't cry anymore. Your time for crying for eniqualitiy is over. Your unfair cries shall be heard no more. Blacks have reached the highest office.

One last thing. We are americans, black white, latino. It doens't matter any where else in this world what we look like, accept to ourselvs in our own country. That is a shame. When 911 happened we were a very united country but once the smoke cleared everyone could see again.

I weep for this country!!

Joey... don't you understand that reverse racism doesn't exist?

;)

Are you kidding me? These people need to MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS. What, getting this poor guy arrested wasn't enough, now, they think he has no right to bond??? that's whats wrong with the united states today, no one knows how to BUTT OUT............... He might have been indigent when he told the judge that and that doesn't have anything to do with your bond amount unless you are a gazillionaire. its based on the charges against you, and I have NEVER heard of someone being let out on bond and then having it raised. Someone needs to GET A LIFE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm really tired of seeing second by second updates on this trial, anyway. A trial that hasn't even started, and my gut feeling is that it might even be thrown out before it makes it there.

What about the white man that was brutally attacked by 3 people (who were black), seeking "justice for trayvon"... hmmm... that's funny... I don't remember seeing an article on that on CNN.

Or the black man that was pulling out of a McDonalds and shot a white teenager because the teenager got in the way of the car. Shot him and killed him... because he was in his way...

Oh boy, I MUST be a racist because I'm pissed off that "reverse racism" is considered to be whites being racist against anyone of a different color.

What exactly Amy is "reverse racism"? I don't see two different definitions for racism in the dictionary. Rasism is, well just that, racism. there are not different flavors. The mere fact that you even use reverse and racism in the same sentence says a lot.

Shellie, touche. It's a term I've heard when african americans are racist towards white people.

The term in itself does not make sense because it's pure racism.

@Chuck-21111

And if anyone knows anything about the Castle Law and stand your ground law you would know it.

A quote from Jeb Bush, former FL governor who signed the Castle/SYG law:

"This law does not apply to this particular circumstance,” he said. “’Stand Your Ground’ means ‘stand your ground.’ It doesn’t mean ‘chase after somebody who’s turned their back.’”

I just get pissed off that it's never a hate crime when african americans are racist towards white people.

I am not racist, but I can see how calling it reverse racism would make me seem racist.

Don, the prosecution doesn't even know what happened. From the 911 tapes and from the bond hearing, it's implied that Zimmerman began to follow Martin, Zimmerman backed off, and Martin turned back around and followed him.

However, the prosecution wants everyone to believe that Zimmerman followed Martin and shot him in cold blood which is looking less and less likely as more information comes out about this case.

The bond hearing was laughable, the witness on the stand said they didn't have any evidence to support anything that was put in their documents pressing for charges (I forgot the name of the paper used when pressing charges).

I hope you saw the detective on the stand, he is relying on a witness that saw "shadow people" running in the street to see who was chasing who, SHADOW PEOPLE. He also admitted that they have no idea who started the fight, or if Zimmerman was on his way back to the truck etc.

They have no clue what happened

@ Amy: It's called an Affidavit =)

Corey's affidavit is a perfect example of a prosecutor who shouldn't be involved in this case. She intentionally left out any facts and evidence that may have benefited Zimmerman creatinga one sided tale that lacked the elements of a Murder 2 charge. Her affidavit was similar to reading unconfirmed assertions and assumptions like those found in media hype and sensationalism.

She avoided a Grand Jury Hearing knowing she couldn't omit the same facts and evidence she left out in her affidavit to the Prelim judge. Those crucial facts could have ended up with a No Bill verdict and no charges against Zimmerman.

Corey's affidavit will be scrutinized and taken apart in a likely Evidentiary Hearing called for by O'Mara. It wouldn't be surprising if Corey gets replaced for her lack of professionalism and abundance of unfairness in seeking justice.

Blood money! Sure Zimm deserves a fair trial, but he is not the victim here. He killed someone, and he needs to provide evidence for his claim of self-defense. The true victim is dead, cannot speak for himself, and deserves justice. I'm guessing that he won't get it due to the incompetent handling of this case. Let's remember that the VICTIM was drug tested, and the shooter was not. Does getting shot automatically make someone a suspect?

As to the charges of reverse-racism being thrown about, if the tables were turned and Martin were the shooter, he would have been immediately locked up if history is any indication. There is a racist precedent for the events that took place.

Thanks B Murphy :)

Posting my message here, where it should have been to start with. It landed under someone else's post for some reason, so just ignore the 2nd one.

Is there a reason why the Trayvon Martin's family is getting all worked out over that $200,000? It's not much considering the bail was $150,000, already only $50,000 left, and the State doesn't want to pay to protect him either (despite all the death threats), so that $50,000 sure won't go a very long way, how is he supposed to live considering he can't work and can't get out of the house? The guy should get a few body guards at all times, considering all the death threats against him.

And I wonder how the Martin family manage to pay that advertisement firm who totally destroyed George Zimmerman's character to satisfy their need for revenge??? I'm sure they worked for free right? I wonder how much money Trayvon Martin's mother has made so far with the copyrights for "Justice for Trayvon", and the other sentence she got the copyright for (can't remember the phrase exactly, but it is something similar). Whether George Zimmerman is declared guilty or not, and whether their son was an angel or a wannabe thug, they are still a bunch of manipulative and dishonest people.

workin hard

I guess there are a lot of people out there that want to be sure he receives good legal representation.

Yes, and what is wrong with that? Don't you want him to get a fair trial, regardless of your personal opinion about him? And obviously the Trayvon Martin's family doesn't want a fair trial, eventho it was supposedly what they wanted to start with, didn't they? didn't they say they wanted "justice"?

Personally I want every single person in this country to get a fair trial, whenever there is a trial. Thank God for the constitution.

Bill Studwell

If I posted the name "Daniel Adkins," would anybody in here even know who he is?

Of course not, most people don't, because as you know it was posted only on the local newspapers and a few websites. It sure looks to me like Daniel Adkins' family are not getting the support they deserve. Helloooo Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, helloooo Trayvon Martin's family supporters, another man's family needs your help! ... defeaning silence. R.I.P. Mr Adkins.

And most people also don't have a clue how many self-defense cases there has been in Florida, nor do they know who were the people killed or the people who killed them. They also have no idea about the 2 recent self-defense cases (in Florida), where "stand your ground" was used, and all charges dropped. They are so focused on hating George Zimmerman that they don't see anything else. (p.s. personally I don't have anything against "stand your ground", better to stand your ground then to try to turn around and get shot in the back).

And the Trayvon's supporters should have been on top of it, because justice for all is what matters to them, isn't it? ... defeaning silence.

Susie-2759697

freedom supporter::: So GZ isn't a racist thug? Might not be a thug, but he is a racist. Why else would everything he reported stated that the person he is seeing is black.

Oh I don't know Susie, could it be because the guys they did catch stealing were actually black? Could it be because the guys he suspected were doing the wannabe gangster act, just as Trayvon Martin did? (and in case you didn't know, when you do the "gangster act" you do want to look like a bad a** gangster, so don't be surprised when someone thinks you are a gangster. And anyway, do you think he called 911 about every single black guy he saw??? get real. I guess if someone steals something from you, and you happen to see they were black, you will be a racist for mentioning they were black?

I'm sorry, but if I looked into my mirror I would see a woman who has lived around people of other ethnicity's all her life

So did he ... I guess you didn't read the article about his life and background did you?

Sanity, I'm not going to disagree with you that Trayvon MIGHT have been arrested right away if he was black. Racism exists today, for sure, but it exists among EVERYONE. Sharpton and Jackson are the biggest racists of all.

However, the more that comes out about this, and from what I have seen from the bond hearing, there is clear indication of self defense, and the prosecution left all of that out, seeking the 2nd degree murder charge to appease the blood hounds.

The prosecution didn't even have copies of Zimmerman's medical records (I am taking this from the bond hearing that I watched). Which means that they didn't even take that into account in the affidavit.

Step number 11:

Trademark your dead sons name... oh, oops... that wasn't Zimmerman, was it? That was the Martin's... making money off of the race baiting, the interviews, and even tradmarking their dead sons name.

Whoops. Guess I got my facts confused ;)

Zimmerman( Known as bruce Wayne in his mind) was sitting in his stately mansion when he looked up into the sky and saw the Batman save us light beaming over the city. Zimmerman slides down the bat pole, into his imaginary hero costume and drives to the scene where he sees someone walking, just looking around, with something in his hands, wearing a hoodie in the rain, (*&%^(* punk/insert racial name calling here) Calls the police wanting them to come arrest this guy, as guy is walking talking kissypoo talk on phone to girlfriend, Batman runs from his vehicle chasing ("they always get away") batman is told he isn't needed. couple minutes later, Bang. The kid, yes kid with the ice tea and skittles who was walking talking boyfriend/girlfriend talk on the phone shot dead.

Zimmerman/Batman/superhero rejected by girlfriend, police academy, and neighborhood watch, called in 47 other times to prove only he can save the world and the world was wrong,...this insecure person who assaulted cop and girlfriend...shoots a kid, all to justify his own existance, because in his world, in his mind, the light shines in the night sky in his mind...to save the world...

SanityCheck

Sure Zimm deserves a fair trial, but he is not the victim here. He killed someone, and he needs to provide evidence for his claim of self-defense. The true victim is dead, cannot speak for himself, and deserves justice.

Yes George Zimmerman deserves a fair trial. But he is a victim too, he can't live normally, can't get out of the house, and there is a bunch of nut jobs who would kill him if they saw him. How would you feel if you killed someone in self-defense and then found yourself in his situation?

Trayvon Martin is dead, but he may or may not have been the one who started the fight. If he did start the fight, then he will have been a victim of his own poor judgement. Or would you say that every person killed by a person in self-defense is also a victim, regardless of their attacker's intentions?

Starsailing, although your story is funny, it's not really what happened.

Apparently, Zimmerman assaulted an undercover police officer who had thrown his friend against a wall before identifying himself. Zimmerman tried to protect his friend, the police officer was identified, and I think charges were dropped (not sure on that), but he also attended and passed anger management after that incident. That was also a long, long time ago.

The altercation with his girlfriend showed no injuries on her, they both took restraining orders out against each other, and all charges were dropped. Once again, i think he was twenty, so this was eight years ago.

Oh, and who can forget the speeding ticket that this website reported? Heaven forbid, a speeding ticket means Zimmerman has priors.

The speeding ticket came from this site, and it made me laugh.

The prior domestics I believe I watched when I was watching the bond hearing

Trial by media scares the hell out of me and I pray to God that I am never in trouble with the media reporting, and twisting facts on my every move.

Life, as I know it, would be over.

Saxon

Cornell law school, at legal insur.com,

How about a link.. you've been a newsvine member long enough it will allow you to post a link.

@BlueBurner

No one is arguing that Zimmerman has a right to raise funds for his defense. But to lie to both the court and your own lawyer who is providing his services gratis because you said you were broke is pretty lowlife. And all his family lied, too, swearing to the judge that they didn't have any funds or assets.

Maybe Florida is different but generally inmates don't have access to computers. The website was shut down by the lawyer but apparently he did not check the balance in the paypal account. Somehow I think George was busy getting situated where is is staying since his release. He probably didn't even check the paypal account for a day or two. He did advise his lawyer which was the correct thing to do. Give it a rest. Everyone is looking for EXCUSES to paint George in a negative light.

Here's a thought... Who has been paying the bills for the Martins to travel and take time off work during all of this? Don't give us it's unfair to pick on them... I am not. I am simply pointing out the hypocrisy here. George won't have a dime for a while. Either his lawyer will burn through the money and it's gone when they lose or the state will end up paying for everything, under FL law, when George is released or found not guilty.

Yes George Zimmerman deserves a fair trial. But he is a victim too, he can't live normally, can't get out of the house

I know... poor guy. If only he was as LUCKY as Travon. That kid doesn't have any problems from this whole ordeal. Lucky bastard.

and there is a bunch of nut jobs who would kill him if they saw him. How would you feel if you killed someone in self-defense and then found yourself in his situation?

No Anna, they are not going to kill Zimmerman. They are just go to follow him in their car, then on foot, every night, wherever he goes, with loaded weapons... because that is NOT illegal. Every night, whenever he leaves his house, they will stalk him... because that is NOT illegal.

And if Zimmerman finally snaps, the anxiety gets to him, the fear and anger overtakes him... and he fights back. BAM!!!! They just kill him in self defense. YOU support that, so I don't know why you are concerned.

Indie--Brilliant! Yes, it's easy to stage a murder in Florida and get away with it apparently. You could stalk your boss on a weekend when he or she was wearing casual clothes, scare them into fighting for their life, shoot them, and then claim self defense.

Who can believe that a 17 year old kid, holding candy & soda in his hands, suddenly decides to jump on a possibly armed guy for no reason at all? I guess he thought the soda can could be an adequate weapon or that he could load up the guy with so much sugar from his skittles to disarm him.

That people can't even feel sorry for this boy who lost his life for no reason is highly disturbing. And that they'd promote this kind of act by funding the adult who killed him is just shocking. I hope the names of people who gave money to Zimmerman becomes public.

Another case for teaching Eubonics/AAVE? Hypothetical courtroom discussion: Lawyers: "It was all just a matter of miscommunication. Turning around to confront his pursuer, Trayvon must have said 'Yo dog! Sup! jus chillin?'. But Zimmerman heard 'You're a dog. Get your hands up. Just killing!'. Then the fight began. Nothing different from the miscommunication that occurs between humans every day."

@ Amy: You're welcome, anytime.

I thought the arguement on the part of the Martin Family was that he had not been arrested. He has now been arrested. I thought the important thing in their eyes was that he had not been charged. He has been charged. Bail by law can not be punative. It cannot be a punishment in and of itself. The legal system is in motion let it continue. In the meantime everybody should butt out. Including the Martin Family.

IndieParty:

Interesting story. So, how many shots do you pretend he shot from the safety of his truck?

A plan like you outline is utterly absurd. It is impossible to guarantee a lack of witnesses. It is also impossible to guarantee a "fight" response as your target is likely to seek shelter.

TrustVerify--Trayvon's parents haven't killed anybody. I'm sure their friends, family, congregation has helped them with expenses given this tragedy in their lives. They lost their son.

It's pretty easy to determine when Zimmerman checked his accounts and web site because those visits are recorded by the computer, especially because you need a password to get into paypal or your website. Also time stamped are the dates/times donations were made, which can be correlated to his use of the computer. If this was his excuse, I'm sure his attorney would have explained that he and his family were surprised to learn of the donations.

So, how many shots do you pretend he shot from the safety of his truck?

I'm guessing enough to kill.

It is impossible to guarantee a lack of witnesses.

But that's ok. As long as you scare them enough to start attacking you first, then the witnesses will back up your story. But you really need to put the fear of death in them, it is very important.

It is also impossible to guarantee a "fight" response as your target is likely to seek shelter.

That's not true... the reason they call is FIGHT or flight is because human behavior dictates that they will FIGHT. It's not called RUN and flight. I would recommend you educate yourself before going out and putting this into action.

Now if they do run to "seek shelter"... just keep following them, this will scare them even more. Think about it, they are terrified and running from you, you follow and they will get scarred even more. Eventually they will be so overcome with fear that they will strike out.

However, if they DO find shelter, that's fine. At that point, you stop and either find a new target, or do the same thing to this person the next day. Remember, it is NOT ILLEGAL to stalk someone and chase them through their neighborhood, every Republican will tell you that.

So just keep at it, buddy... I have faith that you too can be the next Zimmerman. Stalk, Scare, Chase, Defend... it's that easy. The more you know (cue music).

BlueBurner

It's pretty easy to determine when Zimmerman checked his accounts and web site because those visits are recorded by the computer, especially because you need a password to get into paypal or your website. Also time stamped are the dates/times donations were made, which can be correlated to his use of the computer. If this was his excuse, I'm sure his attorney would have explained that he and his family were surprised to learn of the donations.

Not sure just how easy on the when paypal was checked.. I'm sure some subpoena will be necessary. ebay/paypal won't just hand the records over as that would set precedent for future legal requests. But I agree the records will come out at least on the donation side. The BEST source of activity is going to be paypal, not the computer it is accessed from. The login to review the balance may be a bit trickier. Lets let the experts sort through that mess before we start further condemning the Zimmermans.

In an article not covered by MSNBC, Sharpton and Jesse and the Martins held a 'rally' at a megachurch in CA. Same race-baiting, Justice for Trayvon spiel, lots of money coming in, Sharpton donated five hundred of his own dollars (not too many aware that Sharpton owes lots of money to the government) to the Martins. Now, the Martins are using all the donated money for what, exactly? How much money has Al made as a result of his race baiting? No one knows.

Zimmerman set up the website to get donations to help his family. There are hundreds of death threats against him, his family, the judge and anyone not following the 'hate' Zimmerman narrative. Additionally, the New Black Pathetics still have their hit out on him and....recently a white man was beaten by a gang of twenty black people, wielding metal pipes and paint cans, he is in critical condition, and...the gang was heard hollering that the beating was 'justification for Trayvon.'

None of those stories have made MSNBC. Nope. All MSNBC does is cover stories that inflame hatred for Zimmerman and studiously ignore all the black-on-white hate crimes, the violence against whites is not really covered at all, can't have equal reporting, that wouldn't fit the agenda. Note who has Sharpton as a commenter. Note as well how Holder isn't going after any of those crimes, nor has Obama mentioned how the twenty attackers could be his children.

He shot an unarmed kid in "self-defense"... how is that NOT murder?

If you think he is innocent, you are seriously disturbed...

@ Indie: A simple forensic examination of Zimmerman and Treyvon would easily easily tell whether the gun was fired at close range, or medium range. If it was close range, powder burn would likely be transferred to Trayvon's person...at medium/long range, the powder wouldn't reach the victim. If there was a struggle, and multiple shots fired, making note of where the traces of gunfire show up on Trayvon and Zimmerman's persons can also determine what exactly was going on at the time of the shooting, as well as physical evidence around the scene of the shooting.

Should probably let the experts work this case, since this is all rudimentary forensics information.

trust verify; I am not competent enough to post links, however i did give you the web address for legal insur.com ( i believe that is the correct link. ) next time my oldest granddaughter comes over, i will have her teach me how to cut and paste from articles. was born B.C. (before computer)

B Murphy

That's true... although the initial cover-up of the incident destroyed the time frame for when that should have taken place. Seeing as how Travon's body has already been prepared and buried, I doubt the forensic residue is still available.

I was merely pointing out the sad state of affairs that the conservatives are now pushing a defense for murder, as long as you follow the same steps that Zimmerman did. According to conservatives, if you scare someone into attacking you, you have a right to kill them. Seems like an easy defense to kill anyone you want.

Trayvon probably died thinking he had lost an encounter to a bad man with a gun.

@B-1768547: Not that I'm making a judgement at all as to whether Zimmerman is guilty or innocent, but you can easily kill someone with your bare hands....very, very easily. There are numerous ways to do it, and since none of us are privy to the forensics of this case, we have absolutely no idea what position Zimmerman or Martin was in, for that matter.

That's really the crux of this case, it's extremely difficult to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, that Zimmerman was NOT in fear of his life. You follow? For example, reports indicate that Zimmerman claim Martin was smashing his head against the sidewalk. It doesn't take much head trauma to kill someone...so in that instance, would someone be justified in pulling a gun and firing on an unarmed individual? That's the thing, we really don't know how the actual altercation went down. Only the before and after.

@Indie Party: Well, I for one have no idea what evidence the police and coroner collected from the onset, and I don't think anyone else outside of the Judge/Prosecutor/Defense and expert analysts involved in the case do either. So, they very well could've taken a great deal of physical evidence when this initially occurred (prior to them releasing Zimmerman without charge, originally), and come to the conclusion that he was innocent, again, not saying he is, simply theorizing.

The real problem here isn't conservatives or liberals, the real problem is the Stand your ground Law, and that it's literally worded in such a way so that an instigator could very well provoke an attack from another, and then shoot them and claim stand your ground. That's a serious, serious problem...literally a loophole to commit murder and get away with it. But, I'm hesitant to say that's what happened here, because I simply don't have access to the evidence. It's becoming increasingly difficult to take the media at face value, because they all seem to want to present it from an angle that serves their purpose, and not necessarily just delivering the facts that they have thus far.

Anyone else think that maybe, just maybe, Trayvon didn't know that Zimmerman was armed? Trayvon was much larger, blah blah blah we already know the stats on their height, weight, background, heritage, and probably what they all had to eat that day.

But maybe Trayvon jumped Zimmerman after Zimmerman turned back to his truck, not realizing that Zimmerna was armed. Resulting in Trayvon's tragic death that in my opinion, turned to self defense the second Zimmerman turned back to go to his truck and got jumped by Trayvon.

To all of you Zimmerman defenders you all need to be in the nut house and kicked out of this country. You people have the audacity to defend this piece of crap shocks me. All of you cowards are so full of paranoia is disturbing I think you people have been watching to much of doomday preppers and to much right wing bs false news! @rliberto you are a perfect example of the type of person I am talking about I'm sure you a punk and a coward!

IndieParty - I'm not even being sarcastic. I seriously want to know if you are writing this with a straight face. Can you possibly think this man planned this massive cover up in advance, knew exactly how someone would react to being followed, and executed this plan while on the way to go grocery shopping? Did he also spend years in his neighborhood watch just knowing he would want to cover up this cold blooded murder some day? And do you really think it's instinct to ATTACK someone because you are scared? Really?

If this is not some weird form of sarcasm, I only pray you are typing this stuff from a padded cell somewhere. Otherwise I seriously believe you are a danger to society.

Treyvon's family should have to pay all the expenses from this. Oh, and if they are financially hardshipped, then they can have all their "special organizations" pay for it. This is a total waste of tax paying citizens money.

Does anyone know?

Can the court hold the family/organizations accountable for the cost??

well, looks like a lot of people think he is innocent!

IndieParty

No Anna, they are not going to kill Zimmerman. They are just go to follow him in their car, then on foot, every night, wherever he goes, with loaded weapons... because that is NOT illegal. Every night, whenever he leaves his house, they will stalk him... because that is NOT illegal.

And if Zimmerman finally snaps, the anxiety gets to him, the fear and anger overtakes him... and he fights back. BAM!!!! They just kill him in self defense. YOU support that, so I don't know why you are concerned.

If you believe that some people will stop at following, I am guessing you are not aware of what happened to Matthew Owens a few days ago, look it up, they sure as heck didn't just follow him.

If people did what you describe it would definitely be illegal, stalking someone with loaded weapons days and night, with the alleged intention of stalking, is indeed called stalking. Zimmerman carried a gun for self-defense, that is completely different. And no I don't support any of the things you mentioned, talk about twisting my comments. I never denied that he shouldn't have followed Martin, and that it was a mistake to do so, if you had read my other posts where I mentioned it you would know that. P.S. I am guessing if someone jumps on you you won't defend yourself right?

And if they did something like that, he would call 911, just like he did that night. On the other hand Trayvon Martin, who supposedly felt threatened and was scared, didn't bother calling 911, and his girlfriend, who was supposedly so worried, didn't either.

IndieParty you are so hateful it blinds you, I can almost feel it from here, you have decided that George Zimmerman is some kind of Clyde Barrow, no matter what (even Clyde Barrow didn't get as much hate as Zimmerman). And this hate is directed at a guy you don't even know, on behalf of another guy you don't even know, and without having any certainty about the how actual confrontation started. You also ignore the fact that Zimmerman had lost sight of Martin when the confrontation took place.

I wonder ... do you feel all that hate for the guy who shot and killed Daniel Adkins too? or for the people who attacked Matthew Owens and left him beaten so badly that he was in critical condition? And the cases of self-defense (in Florida) who got all charges against them dropped, do you feel hate for these people too? Do you even know who they are? Or is your hate directed only at George Zimmerman?

Personally I don't feel any hate for either Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman.

Anna (#1.51)

What part of my original statement (#1) suggests that I don't want a fair trial. What part of my original statement suggests that I have a personal opinion of this guy.

You're reading way too much into my post.

You seem to be way overboard on this subject . . . .

Zimmerman had already spent $50,000 of the $200,000 of his paypal account connected to his fund raising website? AND Zimmerman JUST SAT QUIETLY NOT DIVULGING THIS as the judge asked his attorney how much was in that fund. MY CONCLUSION is that it is important now to consider if Zimmerman can be trusted at all in this whole matter. How can his "I shot in self-defense" now be considered credible by anyone???

Trayvon probably died thinking he had lost an encounter to a bad man (a criminal) with a gun.

Indie:

The reason it's called fight OR flight is because you could get one or the other exclusively. You could get only flight, particularly if your target finds shelter. And, while it is not illegal to follow someone, it is illegal to corner him or otherwise impede his movements.

[In response to a question about how may shots Zimmerman fired from a position of safety.] I'm guessing enough to kill.

Nope. He didn't fire any from a position of safety. He fired one when he was actively being attacked. And he called the police well in advance. Had they shown up quickly, Martin would still be alive. Zimmerman wasn't looking to kill anybody.

do the same thing to this person the next day

Then he would get a court order. Now, when you a barred by the court from approaching someone, then it is illegal to follow him. The fact is that if Zimmerman had a pattern of following people to provoke an attack, this would have been reported and would be used as evidence against a self-defense claim. Similarly, if anyone tries to do as you suggest to Zimmerman, your very post will be evidence of premeditation, and you will be guilty of inciting murder.

B Murphy

Stand your ground Law, and that it's literally worded in such a way so that an instigator could very well provoke an attack from another, and then shoot them and claim stand your ground. That's a serious, serious problem...literally a loophole to commit murder and get away with it.

Thank you... that is EXACTLY the point I am trying to get across.

People are defending a law that allows anyone to instigate an attack, and then kill the person who defends themselves against an instigator. That is madness. You want to mug someone? Sure, instigate an attack and just kill them. Don't like your neighbor? Just instigate an attack and kill him. It is mind-boggling that people are ok with this.

For instance, my wife carries pepper spray... being the daughter of a military man she has ALWAYS carried pepper spray, and has been trained to use it. If someone started slowly following her at night, in a car, then on foot... the first thing going through her head would be rapists or murderer. Furthermore, family in law enforcement tells us that you NEVER trust ANYONE except a uniformed officer who shows you his/her badge (and even then you make sure you are in a well lit, crowded area is possible). That means someone "claiming" to be neighborhood watch means NOTHING... they can still be a rapists or killer. So she would fight back, in this situation. She would pepper spray her stalker and run. According to the Zimmerman fans here, the stalker has a right to shoot her because she attacked.

This reasoning is beyond retarded. What the f*** is happening to our country where we have laws that literally allow you to kill anyone you want?

In response to Bill studwell's post #1.17

Daniel Adkins 29 years old was walking his dog thru a Taco Bell parking lot when a 22 year old black male started an argument with him that ended with DANIEL being shot to death. Daniel was mentally disabled and according to family member has a menal capacity of a 12 year old. The 22 year old black male shooter was not arrested, claimed self-defense and tried to say that Daniel had a pipe as a weapon, THe "weapon" turned out to be his dog's leash.

To date have NOT heard if the shooter has apologized to Daniel Adkins family.

The reason it's called fight OR flight is because you could get one or the other exclusively.

You stated that people only flight... that is an incorrect statement. The reason it is called FIGHT or flight is because people will do either of those.

BTW... I never said "corner someone"... I said follow them until they are scared enough to fight. Human behavior dictates that some people will do this.

But all of this is pointless. You are missing the overall point, whether through lack of intellectual capacity or a deranged need to defend the ability to murder. The point is that this law allows anyone to instigate an attack, and kill the other person when they defend themselves. Human behavior dictates that people will defend themselves... and according to YOU, as long as your actions to instigate an attack are technically legal, you have the right to do so. THAT is the issue.

Similarly, if anyone tries to do as you suggest to Zimmerman, your very post will be evidence of premeditation, and you will be guilty of inciting murder.

Actually, I am just following and recording Zimmerman's actions, and switching the names... so, ironically, he would be responsible for inciting his own murder, as people will just do the same thing to him that he did to Travon. He is just leading us by example. Instigate an attack, wait for attack, defend yourself from instigated attack by killing person. That is what he did. If people follow his example and do the same to him... well, talk about a twilight zone twist.

USMC28

To all of you Zimmerman defenders you all need to be in the nut house and kicked out of this country. You people have the audacity to defend this piece of crap shocks me. All of you cowards are so full of paranoia is disturbing I think you people have been watching to much of doomday preppers and to much right wing bs false news! @rliberto you are a perfect example of the type of person I am talking about I'm sure you a punk and a coward!

Personally I defend the right for everyone to a fair trial, and the Constitution. I, contrary to you it seems, am not a witness, therefore I don't know with any certainty how the fight started, I don't know which one jumped on the other.

Note also that the "Zimmerman defenders" as you said, are not the ones posting death threats all over the internet, and they are not the ones attacking people while screaming "now that's justice for George". Personally I try to think rationally and to see both sides of the medal, and the third side when possible.

I did not let the advertisement firm and all the Jesse Jackson of the world manipulate me and influence my judgement, I read the facts (whatever facts we get from the news, which is not much really as it is difficult to know what is true and what isn't), and I base my opinion on that, while always keeping room for doubt, (i.e. you can't be certain of any facts unless you are a witness, and/or you have access to the investigation documents).

Briefly, it seems the main mistake (before the confrontation took place) that Zimmerman made, was to follow Martin for a while (the dispatcher himself gave confusing instructions, while telling him "we don't need you to do that", he also said "let us know if he does something else"), and it was due to the fact that he was protective of his neighborhood, where there had been many burglaries in recent weeks, not because he is some kind of racist monster cold blooded murder nor a cowboy who just wanted to use his gun. It seems the main mistakes that Martin made were not to call 911, and to wait for Zimmerman and confront him (I base that on the timeline, which leads me to believe - I repeat I am not 100% certain of anything - that at this point Martin should have been at his house already, especially if he was walking fast as he told his girlfriend). I strongly doubt that George Zimmerman is a racist, considering all the things known about his life, and considering he has friends who are black, and himself has black roots. If he profiled Martin it was based on his demeanor, not on his color/race (i.e. he may have been walking strangely while talking on the phone - which is something Zimmerman couldn't see as he was using headphones and probably was not holding the phone).

Before calling others nut jobs, you might want to start thinking rationally, and realise that you were not there, and that you don't have any idea if Zimmerman is telling the truth or not.

workin hard

Anna (#1.51)

What part of my original statement (#1) suggests that I don't want a fair trial. What part of my original statement suggests that I have a personal opinion of this guy.

You're reading way too much into my post.

workin hard, I apologize wholeheartedly if I misunderstood your post.

Anna

I will not address you entire post because you are obviously not smart enough to comprehend satire (look it up). Furthermore, you lack the intelligence to see the overall point that this law allows anyone to kill anybody they want, and get away with it.

do you feel all that hate for the guy who shot and killed Daniel Adkins too?

I feel the EXACT SAME WAY. The guy that shot him instigated the attack, he is NO DIFFERENT than Zimmerman, and should face the same judgement. If I ran a network, I would run this story the EXACT same way as a Zimmerman story... but I don't have my own network, and I apologize for that. I'm sorry.

What? You thought this was about race for me? LOL. When did I ever say that? I don't care what race any of them are, and have never mentioned anything with regards to that.

My issue is with an instigator... ANY INSTIGATOR... picking a fight on technically legal grounds, like stalking, then killing someone when they exhibit the predictable human behavior of fighting back. So whether your name is Zimmerman, or that guy that killed Adkins, they are the SAME. They instigated an altercation, and used a self defense excuse to kill someone.

My ONLY issue is with the fact that YOU can instigate a fight with anyone, and then legally kill them when they fight back against your instigation. That's it, that is my issue.

@ Indie: Indeed, I have strong problems with the wording of the Stand Your Ground Law, however, I want to say that I personally am refusing to jump to the conclusion that Zimmerman used that exact loophole in this case. Because I feel that right now, the evidence that we have at our disposal is circumstantial at best. We do know that the dispatcher told Zimmerman they didn't 'need him to follow' Martin (I don't believe they ever said stop doing it...I could very well be wrong...either way it's besides the point). And the audio tapes (as well as past history) indicates that Zimmerman was not racially profiling any of the prior suspicious individuals he'd come across, let alone Martin.

Could he have? Sure, but the evidence we've all been presented with currently suggests that that isn't the case. That he simply saw a suspicious individual and (poor judgement or no), followed him. The exact details of what occurred when Zimmerman confronted Martin may never actually be known, because really the only persons who witnessed it were Zimmerman and Martin.

The 'Stand Your Ground Law', must certainly be looked at, and amended, in my opinion, however, I think people are rushing to judgement that Zimmerman used the loophole in the law to just kill someone. And I think that the fact that he's charged with 2nd degree and not 1st degree (premed) indicates the frailty of that argument.

It's very very difficult to look upon a suspected crime with impartiality, but I'm really trying here, because who knows what happened...you know? But I certainly agree that this problem starts and stops with Stand Your Ground.

you all have thoughtful comments

Zimmerman had already spent $50,000 of the $200,000 of his paypal account connected to his fund raising website? AND Zimmerman JUST SAT QUIETLY NOT DIVULGING THIS as the judge asked his attorney how much was in that fund. MY CONCLUSION is that it is important now to consider if Zimmerman can be trusted at all in this whole matter. How can his "I shot in self-defense" now be considered credible by anyone???

Just WTH are you getting your information? Fact, as given to the court TODAY, is that 5,000 was spent towards the current bail bond and the balance has been placed in a trust fund controlled by the lawyer.

That you manipulated the FACTS makes you less credible than the person you are trying to defame.

@ Indie: By the way, I'm not entirely sure being pepper sprayed would constitute 'fear of your own life' (in the Martin/Zimmerman case, however, reports are that Zimmerman was getting his head smashed against the sidewalk...that's a bit more severe than pepper spray), especially if you were being followed. See, in that hypothetical, you know the exact circumstances of what transpired, whereas, once Zimmerman left the car and was out of touch with the dispatcher, we really can only go by what the physical evidence tells us.

In the situation you propose however, the mere use of Pepper Spray is non-life threatening, and...in fact, if you're dealing with someone who likes spicy foods...could very well do nothing at all. Now, if it were mace...that's a different story altogether, but even then while your sight may be threatened, I don't think Mace sprayed in the eyes, could kill (I could be wrong there also, not sure on the history).

But, that's my entire point, because we have no idea about the events immediately leading up to Martin's death, we can't really claim anything, logically...because we just don't know. The physical evidence should more than suggest the probable sequence of events, however, I'm not sure if we'll ever be given access to that.

B Murphy

I actually completely agree with you. We should let the evidence decide and figure out what really happened. And like I said, my only issue is with the law itself, and how it allows anyone to kill anybody they want.

That being said, I am not trying to convict Zimmerman myself... but provide a counter-balance to the pro-Zimmerman circle jerk that is taking place here. Jesus Christ, some of these people are literally worshiping the guy.

All I ever see are conservatives and Fox News viewers wanting to give Zimmerman a trophy, erect a statue in his honor, and drop to their knees with open mouths for him. Anna already has her knee-pads on, she is set to go.

If I was to be completely honest, then I would admit that we do not have enough evidence to know, beyond a reasonable doubt, what took place. We do know that Zimmerman initiated the encounter, and if he did not initiate it, a murder would not have occurred. We don't know why he initiated, the reasoning, motive or intent... beyond his own words which are slightly biased.

So, given all the information we do know, 2nd degree will probably not hold. They should have gone with manslaughter, as this fits the definition. But the prosecutor caved to societal pressure, and he will probably walk because of it. Why manslaughter was not included is beyond me.

Again, I am not anti-Zimmerman... in my eyes he is guilty of manslaughter, at this present time with this information, not 2nd degree. But I am anti-conservative orgy for this guy, because that is all I ever hear.

Not sure if anyone answered this yet, but at the bond hearing, it was stated that Martin was shot at close range. He had burns on his hoodie, and I think on his chest as well. He was shot in the chest.

To me, along with the fact that zimmerman's head was bloody, his back was wet and covered in grass, Trayvon was on top of him when Zimmerman fired the gun at close range. That's just my opininion on what has been stated at the hearing though.

LOL Indie.

I am a Zimmerman supporter, but only because he has been so badly and unjustly railroaded.

The prosecution knows about as much as we do about the case at this point, they should not have slapped him with 2nd degree murder. The case will go nowhere.

I would be less upset if it was involuntary manslaugher, or hell, even manslaugher if not reckless endagerment etc.

I'm pissed that he got railroaded by lynch mobs, the press, and eventually the prosecutor. The justice system is supposed to protect everyone, and in this case, I think they failed with Zimmerman.

That's why I'm a Zimmerman supporter

@ Indie: It's unfortunate how many people simply rush to judge either innocence or guilt, not understanding that the system is designed to remove such bias from the argument. Passion often controls much of what people do and say, and with regards to crime and punishment, passion and emotion can quite often cloud the facts. I tend to discuss such matters only with people who are capable of having a civil conversation on the matter, and not those who are clearly letting their emotions get the better of them. It's difficult to do, especially when the issue is so sensitive, but, it's important that cooler heads prevail. Otherwise, you're talking mob rule, and that simply isn't a way to govern or police.

I believe you're correct that there's simply no way to prove 2nd degree murder here, in fact, I think Zimmerman's history of contacting the police without ever mentioning race (until requested by the dispatcher) is pretty telling in this situation. Manslaughter is much much more appropriate, in my opinion, and I have a feeling this Special Prosecutor is performing her last case as....a Special Prosecutor, because she's clearly attempting to overreach based solely upon public outcry (Of course, she could also be in posession of some damning evidence also...so who knows??). In fact, most of this amounts to a waste of time, because he'll likely be acquitted on 2nd degree murder charges, and if we think the country went nuts over the initial killing...wait until that happens.

I'm anti-rush to judgement, anything else would simply be allowing mob rule to govern, and innocence or guilt mean nothing in that case, only the passion and emotion of a crowd of people.

IMO, I don't think it matters who started the fight. The fact remains that if Zimmerman hadn't pursued Trayvon none of this would have occurred. What happened to Trayvon's right to stand his ground???

I have a feeling this will be a conviction by public pressure. Much of Z's defense rests on the witness' statement that saw Martin on top of him, whaling on him. By now, the community knows where the witness lives, and what window he was watching from. He will not testify, because of repercussions from the black community that wants to see Z hang. That leaves Z with only his word against others. Justice? You make the call.

In fact, most of this amounts to a waste of time, because he'll likely be acquitted on 2nd degree murder charges, and if we think the country went nuts over the initial killing...wait until that happens.

Nothing will happen. You have to remember that America is a very fickle society. Emotional events like this usually spawn emotional bursts of interests, followed quickly by distractions on other things.

If Casey Anthony is still walking around, despite the flood of "death threats" she received, then Zimmerman will do the same.

There will be a lot of "noise" when the verdict is read, followed by Amy dancing in the street and holding a sign asking Zimmerman to marry her... the other side will have people outraged (just like with Casey Anthony). That will last for about 2 weeks, give or take, and Zimmerman will lay low. Then Amy will get married to him, happily worshiping his feet every night, and they can go out and stalk people together. The rest of America will then get distracted by some political bull-s***, like Obama eating curry or his birth certificate having a weird line in it, and Zimmer-boy will be a distant memory... soon referred to as "that one dude who followed that kid and shot him."

It's the American way... high emotional peaks for 2 week periods, then forgetting all about it.

There's a lot of emotion on both sides in this case, but if people want to contribute to Zimmerman's defense, I see nothing wrong with it.

IndieParty

Anna

I will not address you entire post because you are obviously not smart enough to comprehend satire (look it up). Furthermore, you lack the intelligence to see the overall point that this law allows anyone to kill anybody they want, and get away with it.

First, let me begin by thanking you for the demeaning comments about my intelligence (by the way, my IQ is actually pretty high), you demonstrate your own by resorting to insults.

And sorry Sir, but I did not perceive your comments as a "satire" in any way, you came off as hateful, and you seem to actually hope people will do that to him ... and to me as well for that matter.

Note that, while you are here, debating about the "stand your ground" law, Zimmerman's lawyer himself is not even certain yet if they will use the stand your ground law, as it this was a clear case of self-defense, and that with or without the "stand your ground" law, he had the right to defend himself as he was getting his head bashed on the sidewalk and his life was in danger.

P.s. Good luck to your wife with the pepper spray if someone, God forbid, ever attacks her, especially if there is more then one person. Makes you wonder why police officers carry guns ...

@ Indie: I don't necessarily think that Zimmerman's in any danger, myself. Personally, if I were him, I'd be armed to the teeth if I were out and about. I mean, really, since he's still in Florida, Stand your Ground still applies...he could literally mow them all down (not that I want that to happen...far from it, but if that's the law then may as well make sure you can defend yourself). No, I more refer to public outburst, rioting and things of that nature. Who knows how an acquittal would be received by the public.

Yeah, that pepper spray is a real deterrent when attempting to defend oneself against someone armed with a gun.

Anna

First, let me begin by thanking you for the demeaning comments about my intelligence (by the way, my IQ is actually pretty high), you demonstrate your own by resorting to insults.

Yes, and I drive a Maserati and have a black belt in karate... because this is the internet, and everyone is honest on the internet.

The mere fact that you fail to comprehend the ramifications of a poorly written law that allows anyone to kill anybody they want, is proof enough of you supposed "high IQ". But keep telling yourself that, sweetheart.

As far as hateful people, you are one of the most hateful women on this forum. Anyone that questions a law allowing people to kill other people, by simply instigating an altercation, and you jump on the attack. Anyone says anything bad about your fantasy man, Zimmerman, and you go into a rage. You are like those little twilight girls who freak out and go crazy any time someone says something negative about Justin, or whatever the name of those guys are. What's wrong, honey? Afraid someone will tarnish the image of your dream man?

Oh, and don't worry about my wife. See we STRONGLY believe in self defense. So if some creepy psycho like Zimmerman started stalking us at night... well, let's just say it would not end well for him. Police are not the only ones who carry guns.

Note that, while you are here, debating about the "stand your ground" law, Zimmerman's lawyer himself is not even certain yet if they will use the stand your ground law, as it this was a clear case of self-defense

I would agree to a certain point, but there are limits to self-defense. Like, when you use disproportionate force to defend against an unarmed man. Like a 9mm. Murder? No. Manslaughter? Yes. Depending on witnesses speaking for Z's case, it could be moderate to aggravated.

@Mygirl1: That's not the scenario Indie was presenting. He was saying that a woman could be shot, for pepper spraying someone else who was following her at night.

But yes, it's difficult to defend yourself when it's pepper spray v gun.

You see he killed a black kid, it's totally different than killing one that is white. They don't count if they are black. I can't wait until our country implodes and the ignorant along with the intolerant see in the end all of us are black. You just have conned yourself into believing that your better than them.

IndieParty

Anna already has her knee-pads on, she is set to go.

LOL I had missed that one ...

You should ask yourself why you are here, full of hate and rage for a guy you don't even know, on behalf of a guy you don't even know either, and about a case you barely know any details about.

Personally as mentioned before, I try to think rationally, as much as it is humanly possible for me to do so.

You Sir, are the one who has put on the knee-pads the minute you started letting the advertisement firm hired by Trayvon Martin's family influence your judgement about Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman.

The minute you started thinking that George Zimmerman was some kind of monster because he made the mistake of following someone and because unfortunately for both Martin and Zimmerman, the confrontation ended with the death of one of them. The outcome could have easily been different, ending with Zimmerman's death, had he not been carrying a gun.

The minute you started feeling the hate for George Zimmerman and demonising him, your knee-pads were well in place, and the advertisement firm employees could congratulate each other for a job well done.

Ummm, seems there are black people killing white kids and getting away with it. Where's the outrage? Where is the pulpit pounding and calls for 'justice' when blacks kill whites? What should really be seen is that anyone killing anyone, for reasons other than self-defense, should be punished EQUALLY. The cries of racism are a bit off-putting. Especially when you have a man who is a minority killing another person of 'minority' status. Perhaps the idea of a 'minority' should be examined. Whatever happened to equality? I'm more 'equal' because I'm a 'minority?' I deserve preferential treatment because I am a 'minority?' Is the demand for 'equal' justice an excuse for 'preferrential treatment?'

Let me get this straight, Indie thinks that Trayvon thought Zimmerman was a rapist. Did I get that right? For the record; I don't hate Trayvon because I never knew him. I don't hate Zimmerman or know whether he is innocent or guilty, I wasn't there. I do however feel disgust, bordering on hate for Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the Martin family for their actions after the fact. Nothing personal, I just hate ignorant racists!

Go look up Daniel Adkins, seems he was killed by a black guy, who was never arrested. Where's Al and Jesse on that one?

The family is not going to be happy until Zimmerman is dead

Wonder how much money THEY made off of their son's death?

MTPolitico
You're absolutely right. Without the media's stirring the pot this wouldn't even be a case we would've heard of.

IndieParty

Yes, and I drive a Maserati and have a black belt in karate... because this is the internet, and everyone is honest on the internet.

Not even worth replying to that one, believe what you wish.

The mere fact that you fail to comprehend the ramifications of a poorly written law that allows anyone to kill anybody they want, is proof enough of you supposed "high IQ". But keep telling yourself that, sweetheart.

Do you constantly resort to insults when you disagree with someone or are you being as nice with everybody?

As far as hateful people, you are one of the most hateful women on this forum. Anyone that questions a law allowing people to kill other people, by simply instigating an altercation, and you jump on the attack. Anyone says anything bad about your fantasy man, Zimmerman, and you go into a rage. You are like those little twilight girls who freak out and go crazy any time someone says something negative about Justin, or whatever the name of those guys are. What's wrong, honey? Afraid someone will tarnish the image of your dream man?

Oh my ... not really worth replying to that one either but I will say this, as I mentioned before, I don't feel any hate for either Zimmerman or Martin, if you think I am hateful, again believe what you wish. Some of the Trayvon's family supporters on the other hand sure seem to be, other then the death threats posted all over the internet, and the attacks on innocent people, they don't seem to agree that Zimmerman has the right to a fair trial.

Oh, and don't worry about my wife. See we STRONGLY believe in self defense. So if some creepy psycho like Zimmerman started stalking us at night... well, let's just say it would not end well for him. Police are not the only ones who carry guns.

I see ... Correct me if I'm wrong (wihtout the insults, demeaning comments, and stupid nicknames, if it is possible for you to get off your high horses), but it sounds like you and your wife are carrying more then pepper spray ... And according to this comment, ironically it also seems that you are in fact supporting the "stand your ground" law, as the situation you describe would fall under that law (i.e. shooting someone who didn't attack you).

WHERE AND WHO REPORTED THAT ZIMMERMAN CONTINUED TO FOLLOW MARTIN AFTER THE DISPATCHER TOLD HIM NOT TO?! All you people keep saying that Zimmerman continued to follow Martin "even after they said not to." NO HE DIDN'T! Witness statements (that the prosecutor didn't bother to report in her charge affidavit, which is against the law) and Zimmerman himself have stated that he was "RETURNING TO HIS VEHICLE TO WAIT FOR POLICE." NO ONE EVER SAID HE CONTINUED TO FOLLOW TRAYVON MARTIN AFTER BEING TOLD NOT TO! EXCEPT IDIOTS ON THESE FORUMS AND LIBERAL TALK SHOW HOSTS! It is testimony supported FACT that Zimmerman abandoned his "pursuit" of Trayvon Martin, but was attacked from behind. THERE ARE WITNESSES! THERE IS FORENSIC EVIDENCE! THEY WERE 20 FEET FROM ZIMMERMAN'S VEHICLE! All that calling of girlfriends and police happened during a 20ft pursuit?! You idiotic, stupid, moronic, Obama supporting, ignorant, racist, CLOWNS have no hope of ever being anything other than the waste of flesh and scum you are, because you jump to rash decisions and follow the mass mentality of whatever the hell it is your TOLD to think. We are a free and civil country IN SPITE of your liberal, communist, socialist and marxist ideals. But this is getting more and more unbearable EVERYDAY! SHUT UP! If you don't know what the hell you're talking about, DON'T TALK! Don't "guess" and vote for the guy all your idiot friends are voting for, or MSNBC tells you to vote for, THEY ARE IDIOTS! just don't vote! Unless you ACTUALLY learn about economics, social programs, the differences between socialistic ideas and free enterprise, investigate matters for yourself and fact check these lying A-holes, DON'T VOTE!

Amy-3288576

And what exactly is the difference between killing someone in self defense and Florida's stand your ground law? I'm not sure

Big difference. Self defense, is when the jury agrees you were in actual danger. "Stand you ground" says, if YOU think you were in danger, you are allowed to kill someone.

So, if black people scare you, you can kill them.

This means, any freak who is "scared" can kill someone else. Kinda like the wild wild west.

And you mention, you "pray to God" a few times. You do know, that Jesus was a Jew, and he was middle-eastern, right?

Your comments smack of "good Christian" dogma. You know, the "good Christians" that support the death penalty, and torture, but hate abortion.

Hypocrites.

Freedom of the Press was never intended as it is being used today. NBC doctored the 911 tapes explicitly to incite a racial conflict. The media makes me absolutely sick. You all should be ashamed of yourselves,, using this privilege of freedom as you do...you disgust me!

Anna

You should ask yourself why you are here, full of hate and rage

Hate and rage? From my "knee-pads" comment. LOL. Come on, that was pure comedy. Made me laugh anyways... and let's be honest, that's really all that matters.

Not sure why you keep pushing the "hate" thing, I've been laughing this entire time. Did you see the "Zimmerman fan circle jerk" comment? That was a good one too.

But if you consider that "hate", well... I honestly can't even comprehend which part is supposedly "hateful". So I will just steal your line: "believe what you wish"

Correct me if I'm wrong ... And according to this comment, ironically it also seems that you are in fact supporting the "stand your ground" law, as the situation you describe would fall under that law (i.e. shooting someone who didn't attack you).

Jesus Christ, woman. How many times do I have to say this? Seriously, tell me... because I can cut and paste it over and over, to save us both a lot of time.

I have no problem with a self defense law that allows you to defend yourself against an attack / danger / threat to life, that a reasonable person would also consider a serious threat to a persons well being.

My problem is with a law that allows anyone to instigate a fight with someone, and then shoot them in self defense.

Do you see the difference? It's not that hard. Here, let me get out the finger puppets.

Puppet A is walking down the street singing a nice little medley. "Do... dooo... do do... dooo"

Puppet B does not like puppet A, so he starts following puppet A in a hostile manner, making A scared. "Grrrrrrrrr. I hate that f***ing guy."

Puppet A gets worried and feels his life is in danger. "Ahhhhhh I'm scarred"

Puppet B INSTIGATES an altercation. "Hey, come here! What the f*** you doin here? I'm gonna skull f*** you, biotch."

Puppet A fights back against a perceived threat, from which he feels in danger.

Puppet B shoots puppet A, and claims self defense... even though he instigate the altercation or "started it."

Do you see the problem yet? Do the see the issue? Do you see how ANYONE can go pick a fight, start an altercation, instigate an attack... then shoot the person and claim self defense, even though THEY STARTED IT. Can you even comprehend how this can cause future problems? Don't get me wrong, murderers and rapists love you for this... because you are now giving them an easy way to get away with it.

Listen, I am not trying to insult you. If you are overly sensitive and take this as an insult... whatever, I really don't care. You claim to have a high IQ, yet you struggle to understand this simple concept.

I don't care about Zimmerman, or Travon, or Adkins, or about blacks shooting whites, or whites shooting blacks... whatever. All I care about is this precedent that people are setting, that you can kill anyone you want by instigating a fight with them.

You complain about the media "railroading" Zimmerman, but all I see are people like YOU railroading the victim, supporting Zimmerman, cheering for him, and pleasuring yourself to his story. YOU are railroading for the other side. It's not even about the issue anymore, you have turned this into the next f***ing twilight movie. Are you team Zimmerman or team Travon? Who cares about the issue or the law, you just want your team to win. Hey, why don't you make a "Team Zimmerman" t-shirt? Then you can sell it to the rest of the fan club, make a little green for yourself.

No, Indie, the "pure comedy" was when you said that you weren't actually part of the lynch-Zimmerman mob and that you were only trying to provide balance to those who were "pro-Zimmerman." You were out for Zimmerman's blood before anyone stepped in to defend him. No one is cheering Zimmerman. No one here wants the events to have taken place. Well, maybe some of the lynchers like you wanted the beating Martin was dishing out to take place. But Zimmerman's defenders, like myself, only see it as a self-defense shooting.

I'm not defending Zimmerman for shooting Trayvon, I'm defending his right to a fair trial, or no trial if the evidence points to true self defense. What many are railing about is the rush-to-judgement, the media bias and misinformation and the professional race baiters like Sharpton getting in on the act. Then you have the president stating that Trayvon could be his son, presumably basing his statement from a four or five year old pic of Trayvon minus the gold grill and gang tats which he had at the time of the shooting. Holder conveniently ignores his New Black Panthers attacks and calls for violence against Zimmerman while threatening the full force and might of the Federal Government against Zimmerman. Then Sharpton is invited to the White House and is new 'best friends' with Holder, all the while conveniently forgetting the Tawana Bradley debacle where Sharpton essentially destroyed the lives of innocent men. Note as well that Sharpton has incited riots where eight people were killed and yet this WH and adminstration embrace the evil little sod. But then, Obama did start his political career in Bill Ayer's home so we aren't surprised when he embraces murderers and terrorists and instigators of violence.

Indie.

We don't know that. Z was a -de facto- watch guard, who encountered someone within a gated community whom he didn't recognize, and he was going to confront him, as to find out what he was doing there. In this case, it was his right to do so, it doesn't mean he instigated a fight. How did Martin get inside? Jump a fence? He may not have been a proper guard, but the community elected him.

It all depends on that one witness who saw the actual struggle, but I can't blame him if he doesn't want to testify, because of all the hype the media created.

The one thing that really, really bothers me is how for WEEKS the media pictured only the picture of Trayvon as a 13- or 14-year-old, and a picture of a previously overweight Zimmerman in jail garb (it is my understanding that charges back then were DROPPED).

So... the media cooks up this story about big, bad "white" guy, oppressing and killing a poor, defenseless little black boy. What a crock! Zimmerman and his parents should sue the media, Al Sharpton, Jessie Jackson and that nut job who put out a bounty on Zimmerman!!! I would sue the s**t out of them.

Interesting to note that every anti-Zimmerman comment here includes a direct insult of Zimmerman or someone providing a comment in his defense. Such namecalling is often symptomatic of of someone who suspects that his own s**t is weak.

Interesting to note that every Zimmerman defender makes disparaging remarks about black people sooner or later. Hey, you can make sweeping generalizations. So can I.

Putting the lawyer in charge of the legal defense fund is like putting a fox in charge of the henhouse...

does anyone know why my comment at 148, was collapsed?

j r browenstein; the lawyer will have to account to the court, the bar association, Zimmerman and his family for every dime spent; who else should control the fund, he has to hire all the experts in the case, (they are very expensive) including their travel ,meals and also pay for all forensic testing, it is going to be very expensive.

So GZ isn't a racist thug? Might not be a thug, but he is a racist. Why else would everything he reported stated that the person he is seeing is black

This makes that statement even funnier, Zimmerman is mixed race, part of which is BLACK, kinda blows all the he is a racist comments out of the water, OOPS.

They are getting a cell right next to Mike Nifong ready for the "special prosecutor" who was campaigning while announcing the charges against Zimmerman, she had all the evidence she knows he is innocent.

I love how as more and more evidence comes out Martin's family and their lawyers keep saying "I don't see nothing", "that doesn't prove anything", "the prosecutor saw the pic but still pressed charges", OF COURSE SHE PRESSED CHARGES SHE WAS ORDERED TO, plus she filed charges just about every lawyer on the news says she can't prove.

Any one wondering why the judge refused to put a gag order on the defense lawyer, because the judge wants as much evidence that Zimmerman is innocent out in the media before he has to let him go.

I hope in the end that Martin's parents, their lying lawyers, the civil rights instigators and all of the politicians from city councilmen all the way up to the FEDERAL level who used the death of this young man for financial and political gain get jailed or sued for creating this giant mess. Yes a young man died, he died because Zimmerman didn't just become another victim of a beating or worse, he fought back and he had every right to.

The truly outrageous posters are the one who keep bring up "facts" that have been repeatedly prove to be false, why do y'all continue to do that???

no doubt that he deliberately stalked and murdered a young man. False, he was getting his head bashed in and shot in self defense

no mention of the fact that Mr. Zimmerman was the one who initiated the pursuit, and continued doing that after the suggestion by the police dispatcher no to False did you not also read the part of the tape transcript where the dispatcher said

Dispatcher: Just let me know if he does anything ok

Zimmerman: How long until you get an officer over here?

Dispatcher: Yeah we've got someone on the way, just let me know if this guy does anything else.

There is NO evidence that Zimmerman was getting his head bashed - only his claims False

http://4umf.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/George-Zimmermans-Bloody-Head.jpg

@ Sarah: I agree that none of this would've happened, had Zimmerman not been following Martin, but, as a neighborhood watch member, hypothetically speaking also (I'm not trying to besmirch Martin's name), what happens if the suspicious individual he stops following ends up committing a crime? Murder? Rape? Again, this isn't about Martin right now, simply about the realities all types of law enforcement and neighborhood watch people face.

IndieParty

I see that once more you felt the need to resort to demeaning comments and a condescending tone. I assure you that it would be easier to get your point accross if you expressed yourself in a normal and respectful manner. And yes surely I have to be overly sensitive to feel insulted by your comments ... I see you telling someone in another of your posts:

• "Fox News viewers wanting to give Zimmerman a trophy, erect a statue in his honor, and drop to their knees with open mouths for him. Anna already has her knee-pads on, she is set to go."

I think we both know what "wearing knee-pads" means, and of course it's not insulting at all, and the rest of your statement is not insulting at all either ... you just can't stop yourself can you? I will not repeat what my boyfriend said, nor my family members, when they read that comment of yours, but I can tell you that they didn't think it was funny either.

And you know very well that I only mentioned my IQ because of your own comments, anyway obviously I am not going to give you my name and the documents to prove that it is so. I was indeed pretty upset about your comment (which is why I addressed it, but I must admit that I think I shouldn't have, I reacted in an emotional manner), but really who cares what you think. So as I said before, believe what you wish, whatever makes you feel good about yourself.

And I repeat, the "stand your ground" law addresses exactly situations like the one you describe (in a previous post), a situation where you would shoot someone simply because that person was following you, and you felt threatened. Without this law, you Sir, would get arrested and charged of murder, if you reacted as you describe, even if you had indeed saved your life by shooting that person. If one wanted to stage a murder, one could do so with or without the "stand your ground" law, it would be the investigators' job to find out. And all this big talk about your wife carrying pepper spraw, to finally tell us that "not only cops carry guns". You Sir are full of it.

And you can shove your "puppets" example you know where (once more this condescending tone of yours lol, honestly its all I could do to even read what you said there), in this situation, the outcome would be similar, with or without the "stand your ground" law. The instigator would still be able to claim self-defense against the "attacker", since the "attacker" would have started hitting him.

The conclusion is pretty simple: no law is perfect, stand-your-ground is not either, there will always be people who are dishonest and will manipulate laws.

And I strongly suggest you practice your "humor" skills, as I assure you that one who is reading your messages does not get the impression that you are smiling or joking in any way, not to mention again your demeaning attitude and comments, and the nicknames like "sweetheart" and "honey", which you also use in a condescending manner.

And I am done losing my time replying to you twit.

... had Zimmerman not been following Martin, but, as a neighborhood watch member, hypothetically speaking also (I'm not trying to besmirch Martin's name), what happens if the suspicious individual he stops following ends up committing a crime? Murder? Rape? ...

Here's a "what if" for you - one much more likely to happen. What if a Neigborhood watch member - possibly a woman, had called the police, as she was instructed to do, then decided to follow the real Rapist (since you brought this hyptheical situation to life). Instead of not following, as the dispatcher had asked she follows the "real rapist" into a dark alley and confronted him.

Since he didn't have a victim in sight - he decides to take advantage of the fortuitous gift life has just provided.

You might say - she had a gun! The issue doesn't change much, since a "real bad guy" counted on that possiblity, had anticipated it - disarms the Nighborhood watch person, with extreme malious.

See your scenerio still assumed that the unlike a person who is not expecting to be murdered... a real bad guy would be prepared, and strike at first chance.

Trayvon was not concerned about being killed, shot ... he was not doing anything wrong and assumed that this country still was operating under the rule of law - who would think someone would shot you in public, for no valid reason?

That just doesn't happen in a Town house development, where kids are playing in the common area and adults are watching over them.

Bottom line: sane people, whether or not they are neighborhood watch or not - Do Not chase after real bad guys! ... you call the police ... because you know that real bad guys are not going to answer any questions and could care less if you are Neighborhood watch.

Chasing after a "bad guy" is just not logical. One of the Homeowner - talking to the police, after the shooting said something sensible - "I'm not going outside to look" ... thats why I called you!

@ b murphy #1.26...

what is thisl "rush to judgement" nonsense some keep rambling about? geozim sighted trayvon doing no more than walking down the street (unbeknownst to geozim...unarmed) he concludes trayvon looks suspicious and reports him to authoritites. he becomes obsessed with making sure this kid does not get away with the 'crime of looking suspicious' and determines he should follow him. he claims he loses him but then trayvon comes upon him from behind and asks him if "he has a problem?" rather than explain he was part of neighborhood watch, geozim alleges his only reply is "no". his brother asserts that as geozim was reaching for his "cell phone" trayvon struck him and he fell to the ground where trayvon continues to assault him brutally (simply because gz has followed him).

recognizing immediately that this story sounds dubiously concocted is certainly no "rush to judgement".

Joe

I wonder how many dollars the State of Florida has set aside to put this guy in jail?

marinmom

Help a murderer? Why? Because he killed a black child?

Thugvon might have been black (apparently that's all that matters to the racists) but he was no child

Joe, quick put your house up for sale and send him your life's savings. I know you feel strongly on what happens to Zimmerman.

tfnj I already have done better than that. want to join in a charity fundraiser for the real victim? Mr Zimmerman is only in jail because racists want him there. Please send me you info and I will send you the info for the fundraiser

Perhaps opportunity is knocking here while the goosesteppers are in such a giving mood.

Maybe I'll start the Official Jeffrey Dahmer Eating Disorder Website.

Please give; your help is needed. Don't hate them simply because they're murders and cannibals.

Nevada he is only an accused murderer. Dhamers killer is actually shopping around a book about his time in jail with Dhamer. I would read that and you probably would too.

proudtparty- thanks for showing 2 things to everyone today. that the tea party is does have racists as proven by your comments. that the party is also full of idiots cause the site that you think isn't up and running, that you just read a story about, already has over 200,000 dollars collected.

oh and i actually assumed you read the story but you probably skipped that part cause you were so excited to post your racist view that you couldn't bother with getting the facts first.

VA patriot-17 isn't a man. if it was you would be able to live on your own at 17 without being emancipated. also, you talk about facts then present your views as if that's what they are without any more knowledge than the person you just demeaned, talk about being a hypocrite.

CC..very good...a post that makes sense and there was no name calling. You give me hope for the future of our country.

Did anyone else notice all the guns present at the Tea Party rallies? I sure did, Did anyone else notice all the guns present at the Occupy Rallies? I didn't either, yet the tea partiers were never bothered by the authorities but the unarmed occupiers were visciously attacked by the "hired by big corporations" law enforcement, just show what big money can buy, your constitutional guaranteed rights.

Anyone that Buys a Gun and applies for the Permit to Carry has signed an agreement basicly stating that they are responsible for their actions should they use that Gun. To send money to Zimmerman is just nuts to me, because he should be a man and handle his business. I guess we should start a defense fund for all of us that have Guns and Permits just in case we should shoot someone, it's the only fair thing to do.

What are you that donated going to do if the evidence proves this coward murdered that child? I know 99% donated because you are Happy a Black Kid is dead. I call him a coward because he would not stand up like a man and face the Music and I hate cowards innocent or guilty.

Zimmerman is a poor excuse of a Man even if he is innocent. This is an insult to each and every Permit holder out there because we had to fight very hard to get these rights and not all of us are Cowards.

It's too bad Zimmermann wasn't interested in Martin getting a fair trial...

How sad that so many people have already convicted this man based on the often incorrect information provided in the media.

Bobby:

No, Zimmerman was more insterested in not letting Martin kill him. By the way, that's known as self-defense.

"Mom":

Perhaps you would like to be in a situation where you are being railroaded and you get assigned a public defender that doesn't care. The people who donated didn't donate out of "pleasure that a black kid is dead." They donated because they think Zimmerman is getting railroaded after he acted in self-defense and they want him to have an adequate defense attorney. After all, the prosecutor gets an unlimited budget.

I don't know my youngest brother joined the Army at 17 I would consider him a man.

People voluntarily donated, so what's the problem? He certainly isn't the first person that has had donations to pay for ones defense. Besides, this is not news. It's been on the radio and TV news, in the paper, on the internet, for weeks, so how it comes as such a "surpise" as if he's been holding out on the prosecution, or the Martins, I don't know. Why he should go back to jail, I don't know. If he was a flight risk, he'd have been long gone months ago. I'd be willing to bet that the Martin's have had a heck of a lot more donated to them. Anybody have problems with that? I don't. Nor do I have a problem with Zimmerman's defense fund. Spike Lee and Sharpton, Jackson, Black Panthers have already played judge and jury, but he deserves a FAIR trial, and the best defense he can get. Not some kangaroo court's verdict without even hearing the prosecution's evidence AND the defensive evidence. This type of story is just to keep it in the headlines and the pot stirred.

aggie, it comes as a surprise cause the defense said they didn't have much money and that's why his bail was set where it was. to now have 200 k sitting around kind of makes zimmerman look like he lied to the judge and the judge will probably feel that way too. i don't think he should go back to jail for this but to not disclose the amount in court the first time asked and now have that much is kind of fishy.

1SGFitzsWife4ID

I don't know my youngest brother joined the Army at 17 I would consider him a man.

not to demean your brother but they require 17 year olds to get a parents permission to join the army. men don't ask anyone for permission to do things.

http://www.military.com/Recruiting/Content/0,13898,rec_step02_eligibility,,00.html

You must be at least 17 years old (17-year old applicants require parental
consent).

I am a 62 year Old Gun Owner with a Permit and a NRA member, I certainly wouldn't run and hide and let others speak for me if I shoot someone. This man is a Coward in every sense of the word even if he is innocent.

I personally don't care what you do with your money. I am glad that you feel you needed to donate because if he is found Guilty you can't say that he didn't get a fair trial!

When you are in a courtroom and the facts are presented that is all that matters, Al Sharpton and J Jackson are not going to be sitting in the Jury Galleria or in the Judges Chair.

He is still a Coward and an Embarrassment to Legal Gun Owners every where because of the Cowardly way he handled this situation!!

Hater Hurter....Bail was set at $150,000. Not that far from $200,000. And who know what the donations amounted to at that time. Maybe less than $200,000. That's where it is now. Everyone in that courtroom would have, could have, known about that defense fund...why act now like anyone was holding out information when they could have just checked it out themselves? Easily. And if Zimmerman or his attorney said they didn't have much money, well, $200,000 (if it was even that at that time) ISN'T much money when it's for a criminal defense or even bail. If they thought he was a flight risk, they would have denied bail right off. So now the $150,000 is considered not "punative" enough?

Ohiomommy:

Allow me to show my cynical side. When the establishment doesn't like a protest, it has "confederates" infiltrate the protest to commit such illegal activity while pretending to be protesters. The tea party wasn't bothered because it represents the establishment.

CC, You seemed to have left out some facts, you know, those things that can actually prove the truth of a statement. I don't affliate with the "Tea Party", which by the way, who even brought them up, but I also do not affliate with the "occupiers". However, to answer your false claim as to why the "Tea Party" was not harrassed and the "Occupiers" were is because one followed the law and the other didn't. I'll let you figure out who actually organized the protests and applied for, and were granted, permits for the demonstrations.

Do not take at face value what any side of the media tells you, observe both and do your own research.

Back to the article; our constitution entitles everyone to a trial before peers and are innocent until proven guilty. Given that the mass population has deemed him guilty already, a fair trial will require a better defense attourney. If you were in his situation, assuming innocent as not yet proven guilty, would you not do everything in your power to defend yourself?

Publivs

Not all Public Defenders are losers and in Zimmerman's Case he would have gotten a good lawyer appointed by the court because it is High Profile. My daughter is an attorney in Ohio and she gets appointed to cases by the court all the time and she is not a Public Defender.

"Mom" seems to think not wanting to be killed by a mob constitutes cowardice. Well, yes, Zimmerman was hiding from the lynch mob that wanted to kill him. My guess is that "Mom" is part of that mob. He didn't hide from authorities. He made every court appearance. He's not hiding from the law. He is trying to stay alive, though.

"Mom":

With the way they're trying to railroad the guy, the prosecution would insist on a public defender that never won a case -- and possibly bribe him to throw the case.

TFNJ I feel strongly for the American justice system. You liberals have done permanent damage to innocent until proven guilty. You wanted an arrest YOU GOT AN ARREST You wanted him charged. HE HAS BEEN CHARGED. Now STFU.

Wrong conversation genius... LMAO

aggie, the court asked how much was in the fund. zimmerman's wife claimed she didn't know. also, you're posting as if i said this is the way i would view it, it's not. i personally think the bail amount is fine but you don't seem to get that 200,000 being close to 150,000 doesn't make a difference cause he isn't paying 150,000. he only has to pay 10% of the bail amount which is 15,000, that's how bail works.

from the article

At the bond hearing last week, Zimmerman's wife told the court she did not know how much money the website had collected in donations

i have chosen no side in this argument cause i don't know what happened. all i want from this is justice for whoever deserves it. i am actually glad that he has gotten this money cause too many get railroaded simply because they don't have the money to defend themselves but for republicans to be in here acting like they believe in what's right all of the sudden is ridiculous when they cry for the head of most people who are accused. alot of people who are in prison wouldn't be if they had the money for a decent lawyer.

Black child my arse. This kid was a ghetto hoodlem with a gold grill. He beat up Zimmerman before he got what he deserved.

Yeah.. that's why Zimmerman had virtually no injuries from the incident... He shot an unarmed person. Black or white, kid or adult, it is still murder.

So, hold up... is it illegal to use donations to get post bond? I kind of doubt it, since his Zimmerman's father would probably know that.

If the money is not Zimmerman's (and he has no access to it), then he can claim indigence.

I don't get it. The judge sets the bond, the money is gathered, and suddenly that's not good enough?

If the intent was that Zimmerman absolutely not get out, then it should have been set at $100 Million or something.

Who in this country DID NOT know that Zimmerman had a site set up for donations to his defense and living expenses??? He did state on his site he needed day to day help to survive. Can you see how he can't go to work? Can you possibly see that his employers would NOT want him there right now?? Geez, he's at work and here comes some POS wanting to kill him! That's exactly why he could not and should not be in the general public any more than he has to!!!!!!!

The Martins, Sharpton, the prosecutor etc.. etc.. all KNEW he had this site. It wasn't a problem until they saw the $$ amount in it!?!?! Who believes $200,000 is a LOT of money??? IF this goes to a trial and it doesn't necessarily have to be a long one, That money will NOT cover all the cost of his defense!!!! THe Martins' etc.. want to put a road block on the road to justice at every turn. They can't have it both ways. They said all they wanted was an arrest and an investigation. They got that and it's headed to trial. What are they doing with all the money they are collecting?? Why haven't they gone back to work until it's time for the trial?? Thousands of people have deaths in the family every year, many victims of violence. How many stay off work so that they can stay in the media constantly??? The BS needs to stop. TOO many crimes are now being committed in the name of "justice forTrayvon". Every one of those crimes committed just turns more people away from caring about his justice and too the current victims.

Interesting and obvious racism from the black community. When a black man robs a liquor store all we hear is how he is "troubled" but "really a good kid" and "we don't know all the facts so let's give him a chance". But when a white (errr, sorry I mean hispanic err sorry I mean white/hispanic) man shoots a person in an alleged self-defense somehow this guy should not be allowed a defense or is not considered innocent until proven guilty even though very little evidence is known?

In fact this guy was initially not charged for about a MONTH so there OBVIOUSLY was some legitimacy to his defense? Doesn't this guy deserve at least the ability to present HIS SIDE of the story? Many believe he is not entitled to put together a legitimate defense team?

BTW, I am waiting for a legitimate and authorized site for the Zimmerman defense and I will happily contribute. To see a man attacked through the media and by racists around the country I actually SUPPORT fairness and the Constitution. I am just worried why many are not?

I find it hard to believe that someone in the Zimmerman family knew how much monet was in PayPal. The judge is going to be upset that while crying poverty that money was hid. Gee another lie. The Judge should pull all of the records to get at the truth. When the money was deposited and when they knew it was there. That should make everyone happy.

Mom 1010 I too am a Proud Conceal and carry member a member of the NRA and of a respectable age...But! I do not do as much whining as you do good grief take a pill or something and quit the griping. Act your age not your Calibre.

CC 2.13;"Did anyone else notice all the guns present at the Tea Party rallies? I sure did, Did anyone else notice all the guns present at the Occupy Rallies? I didn't either"

Yet nobody died at any of the Tea Party rallies but several were murdered and several were raped at Occupy protests. Hmmm! An armed populace is a polite populace I guess.

marinmom wrote:

Help a murderer? Why? Because he stalked and murdered a black child? You pigs make me sick.

Is it ok with you if they have a trial first.... or should they just skip it?

@ CC to add to what MTpolitico just said, you might want to actually get the facts on the OWS idiots. After EVERY rally, camp, or whatever you want to call them, the area was dicimated. Trashed with numerous illegal weapons found. I know that in at least one camp someone exposed a large number of people to TB. Nice. Murder, rape, and totally trashing private property that some innocent business owner had to pay for, yes, that's the OWS people. There was NONE of that with the Tea Party people because those are the people actually being productive members of society who know the value of what the OWS people were destroying. OWS just equaled spoiled socialistic brain washed narcissists!!

@ B1768547 - Virtually no injuries????!!! A broken nose is a pretty decent injury. I know, I've broke mine before and I just got my daughter out of ER for one she got playing softball. Also, what part of the survillence tape did you not see with the injuries on the back of his head PLAIN for all to see. There were witnesses who have said that Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman beating him.

I'm soooo sick of the liberals portraying Trayvon as this cute little 12 year old in that OLD pic they use. He was a very large 17 with a gang grill. A kid suspended from school for drug possession. He wasn't some innocent little kids. What part of the 911 call did you forget that Zimmerman was told to quit following so he did. It was when he turned to leave that he was jumped. So who put himself into the fray, Trayvon. He brought it all on himself. It's sad that this got out of hand, but he mad some really poor decisions and Zimmerman was scared and defended himself.

This kid was a ghetto hoodlem with a gold grill.

And there you have it, folks. A black kid with an iced tea written off by the Proud Tea Party.

I'm soooo sick of the liberals portraying Trayvon as this cute little 12 year old in that OLD pic they use. He was a very large 17 with a gang grill. A kid suspended from school for drug possession. He wasn't some innocent little kids. What part of the 911 call did you forget that Zimmerman was told to quit following so he did. It was when he turned to leave that he was jumped. So who put himself into the fray, Trayvon. He brought it all on himself. It's sad that this got out of hand, but he mad some really poor decisions and Zimmerman was scared and defended himself.

The person in the picture you attribute to Trayvon Martin...is a different Trayvon Martin - never met George Zimmermann, meaning that Trayvon Martin is alive and well, still posting pictures in silly poses on the internet ... 10 years from now, when he is trying to get into Harvard, I'msure he'll be asking himself what he was thinking at 13 years old to be posting childish pictures like that.

The real Trayvon was not the droid you were looking for. He was murdered by George Zimmermann.

I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you! obviously you are gullible enough to buy it.

Well, how could she have known?” She and her “Team” should have known because the photo in question came from a Facebook profile belonging to a living breathing, middle-finger-flipping Trayvon Martin who lists his school as Myers Middle School not Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School. Additionally, all of his relatives are listed as living in Savannah, Georgia. The late Martin grew up in Miami Gardens.

Wrong about this - wrong about George. Can't trust your posts. FOS bare?

http://restoringtruthiness.org/13700/malkin-bias-twitchy-com-posts-fake-photo-of-trayvon-martin-using-new-teamdueprocess-no-joke

Beoweolf

The person in the picture you attribute to Trayvon Martin...is a different Trayvon Martin

Actually the golden grille photo has been linked to #NO_LIMIT_NIGGA and has not been denied by the parents as being THIS trayvon.

I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you! obviously you are gullible enough to buy it.

Disneyland is built on reclaimed swampland.

Bill Studwell:

This was in the news from day one. your fear of "Rev Al and Jesse Jackson ( who I feel are opportunists) are your issue.

Bill, as more and more news come out, Zimmerman is turning out to be a person that spent a lot of time, and energy doing things that this country needs more of. He partnered with a black businessman in an insurance agency, black children ate at his grandmothers house, and many of his friends were black. Looks like he was really someone the black community would think highly of. Zimmerman was reported to have a black man as a great grandfather. Everything that comes out on this case points to Trayvon attacking Zimmerman, but the Als and Jesses only say that a black had died, and surely it must be the white part of Zimmerman that was at fault. For Al and Jessee, anything for a buck.

And, yet I think Trayvon died thinking he had lost an encounter to a criminal with a gun.

Wow you guys act as if you were there. Making Killerman the victim if it was self defence he should have been turned hisself in. It's not like he does'nt have knowledge of the law. As far as Trayvon getting what he deserves he will was Zimmerman's in jail being somebody's Chick. Ten all you KKK's can save your money and donate to a AIDS fund for him for when those shims(she him) get his but in jail!

Cowboy, are you insane or don't have access to a newspaper, radio, or tv? Zimmerman was arrested, he was in handcuffs at the police station. And later turned himself (hisself belies a third grade education)in, when he was charged. You...oh forget it...are you Al's main squeeze/

Trayvon's parents called the Rev Sharpton and other leaders and news outlets. Demonize these civil rights leaders all you want but it won't change the facts. Zimmerman now is facing charges and is going through the legal process he should have been going through from the start. The initial investigating officer findings were ignored for some reason. Whenever there is resonable doubt that a crime has been committed and justice is not being served, citizens should get involved to insure justice to be served. So many people complain, what about this person/case(insert color of person here denied justice or crime committed against) Why didn't Al Sharpton do this or that? Whine , whine, whine. WHAT DID YOU DO ABOUT IT? Just whine? Get involved or quit whining.

starsailing-What do you do besides get on stories like this spew your hate and whine, whine, whine??? Lets hear about all you do to make the world a better place??? Would love to hear it!!!!

skrew, Zimmerman appears to be a much better citizen than starsailing.

It really concerns me that people think it's okay for one person to take the law into their own hands and kill someone. Zimmerman had already called 911, he should have left it at that, let the police do the investigation on why Martin was in the neighborhood. What gives Zimmerman the RIGHT to be the Judge, trial and jury ?!?! If he wouldn't have confronted Martin, he would have had no need to claim self defense !!

It appears that Zimmerman did just that, walked away, and was possibly attacked by Trayvon. Did you see the pictures of the blood on the back of Zimmerman's head? Someone, even you, would do what is possible to stop your head from being splattered onto a sidewalk. Zimmerman was on his way home from Target, and was not on patrol. Zimmerman has CC permit, which one does not get with a criminal past. Black kids were breaking and entering homes in the complex and Zimmerman thought Trayvon looked suspicious, and by reporting it to the police, he was being a good neighbor, trying to protect his neighborhood.

Dasvet

It appears that Zimmerman did just that, walked away, and was possibly attacked by Trayvon

No, it appears there was a "fight", who STARTED the fight, is a matter of debate.

The pictures of GZ's head with blood on it only proves he wasn't hurt very badly! Everyone knows that head wounds bleed PROFUSELY, GZ's head looks scratched up at best!

he was being a good neighbor, trying to protect his neighborhood.

Yeah, sounds like a great guy!

At what point is it do you have the right to defend yourself? After your skull is bashed in or dead? I for one am tired of hearing when and how somebody should be able to defend themselves.The way it looks GZ more than likely was attacked by TM regardless of how severe his wounds appear he had the right to defend himself.

Jo-Ann, when someone bashes my head in, I would be pretty sure he wasn't looking out for my safety. Blood on the back of Zimmerman's head indicates a blow was struck very near an extremely vital part of his body, his brain. Could you enlighten us as to what your reaction would be if struck you on the head? Would you stop and evaluate whether you are in danger or would you defend yourself? It is not logical that Zimmerman struck himself on the back of the head, a thinking person would know that. I think you have based your whole decision on the fact that Trayvon was black, and Zimmerman had some white pigments in his skin, and ignore everything else in your decision.

There is NO evidence that Trayvon was bashing GZ's head in! There is evidence of a FIGHT, that was started by ZIMMERMAN!

.The way it looks GZ more than likely was attacked by TM regardless of how severe his wounds appear he had the right to defend himself.

How does it look that way?

Blood on the back of Zimmerman's head indicates a blow was struck very near an extremely vital part of his body, his brain. Could you enlighten us as to what your reaction would be if struck you on the head?

Zimmerman got OUT of his vehicle, after being told NOT to, followed Trayvon and CONFRONTED Trayvon, NOT the other way around!

It is not logical that Zimmerman struck himself on the back of the head, a thinking person would know that.

Good Lord, I NEVER implied THAT!

GZ started the fight, was getting his ass kicked, so he pulled out a gun and MURDERED a kid!

Jo-Ann, you don';t know that, just that Trayvon was black. The rest of your post is just silly racist hatred.

Dasvet

Jo-Ann, you don';t know that, just that Trayvon was black. The rest of your post is just silly racist hatred.

What did I say that was "hateful" or "racist"?

Children will sing songs about Zimmerman...he is a hero.

Zimmerman can raise all the money he wants by Stupid people giving him their hard earned money. He is going to Prison. and He will answer to God for Taking the life of Travon!! I hope he gets life without parole. If I was on the jury I would make sure of it. You can't hide behind your Daddy's Skirt Zimmerman you already confessed.

I feel sorry for everyone in this situation. But to me Zimmerman made his bed when he got out of his car. He was on a neighborhood watch not take the law into your own hands watch. And the facts remain that he was carrying a gun and Martin had skittles and a drink. I own guns and have them for protection. But the big difference for most permit carrying Americans is that we don't go looking for trouble .....We have the police for that. I don't feel that Zimmerman is a bad person. But he made a very very bad decision that may cost him his life.

200 K?
That ain't hay.
For cleaning the streets,
That's sweet pay!

MLK asked to be judged by his character. Fine. Let's see how the black community is doing. This incident has revealed the collective character of the Black Community in America -- the world saw a LYNCH mob mentality.
MLK would be very ashamed.

How much of this fund was provided by the NRA?

Jo-An-4354969

There is NO evidence that Trayvon was bashing GZ's head in! There is evidence of a FIGHT, that was started by ZIMMERMAN!

You have evidence that neither the lead investigators nor the special prosecutor have? Under oath the lead investigator admitted they have NO EVIDENCE as to who started the fight.

Zimmerman got OUT of his vehicle, after being told NOT to, followed Trayvon and CONFRONTED Trayvon, NOT the other way around!

Where do you get that time line of events? George was out of his vehicle before being ADVISED "We don't need you to do that" when asked if he was following the suspect. Never did they advise or order him to stay in his vehicle.

Bill Studwell

In fact, I can almost hear him saying to himself, "all I had to do was tell the guy my Dad lives here, and that would have been the end of it."

EXACTLY! I'm a white female and have been in this position as my Father in law lives in a gated community, I was asked why I was there and what I was doing, my answer was exactly that, I'm visiting my FIL needless to say I didn't attack the community watch person and I'm still alive to talk about it.

1sgfITZsWife41D-------You were ASKED why you were there. Zimmerman probably should have ASKED Trayvon at the beginning of his (Zimmerman's) observation. I think that, after all the time which Trayvon ENDURED being followed, that somehow Zimmerman's gun became visible or Zimmerman DID SOMETHING that caused Trayvon to realize he had to protect himself.

Melissa:

Well, given that you've decided that Zimmerman is guilty without evidence, it's a good thing you won't be on that jury.

Folks this is sad to read these comments. All the family wants is fair inquire into there son death. Because comment made to 911 operater. We all should want that for ourself's.

iceman99

Folks this is sad to read these comments. All the family wants is fair inquire into there son death. Because comment made to 911 operater. We all should want that for ourself's.

WHAT comment? The creatively edited comment or the thought to have been heard but disproved one? Just looking for an excuse.

The family doesn't want a fair inquiry. The family wants a successful finish to the beat-to-death that Trayvon Martin started. They don't want that defense fund funding expert witnesses that will say that was Zimmerman screaming. They want Zimmerman left with a public defender who can be persuaded to ignore the case and think "who cares whether Zimmerman goes to jail or not?"

1sgfITZsWife41D

And how did you know that the person was the watch commander? Did he address himself as such? Did he have some identification indicating who he was? GZ has never claimed that he identified himself to TM. GZ has never claimed that he asked TM what he was doing there. GZ followed him in his vehicle and when he tried to get away he pursued him. Give me one reason why TM should have stopped and said to GZ that he was only on his way back home to his father's? Because GZ was an adult and TM wasn't? Because TM should have known that GZ was the neighborhood watch captain because he was in a gated community and who else would be following him? If he wanted to know what TM was doing there he should have rolled his window down and asked.

Donna P-2692688

GZ followed him in his vehicle and when he tried to get away he pursued him.

I don't recall where GZ was following anyone in his truck. His truck was parked the entire time he was on the phone with the dispatcher. He could SEE Trayvon at the clubhouse. Trayvon walked on the sidewalk/street to the corner where George was parked... paraphraseing "he is coming towards me" .. "he is going away".

From the point trayvon ran/walked around the corner (run away implies he was guilty and I won't say that) George could no longer see him and got out to locate where he had gone. While George was on the phone I don't think they were ever close enough to "speak" to each other.. perhaps yell? We don't have the details prior to the call where George first spotted Trayvon.. We don't know where Trayvon first entered the gated community. Look at slide 3 here. In the lower right there is a commonly used shortcut that Trayvon MAY have used. That would put him on the road from Georges residence on his way towards the main gate and the clubhouse/mailboxes. That is maybe where George saw Trayvon popping out from between buildings and walking along River View Circle. That is the only I can see George following in his truck... but again that is speculation.

If he wanted to know what TM was doing there he should have rolled his window down and asked.

And others say he should have not spoken to TM at all. That speaking to him was "confrontational".

Obviously, Zimmerman was following Trayvon. He said so on the 911 call. Clearly, Trayvon had no idea who Zimmerman was and owed him no explanantion for his presence on the property. This is precisley why the police and National Neighborhood Watch Program does not want civilians confronting people who they may think are suspicious. If trained professionals can make mistakes, untrained cop wannabes with 9mm handguns in their pants are even more likely to be wrong.

Fact-Zimmerman was wrong in his asssessment of Trayvon. This is what led to the deadly encounter no matter what you believe happened next.

Donna: You have hit the proverbial nail on the head. All Zimmerman had to do was wait for the police, or identify himself and ask Trayvon from the comfort of his vehicle why he was there, with the first option being the most preferable.

For some reason, Zimmerman felt it was necessary to take it further. Remember, Trayvon was NOT engaging in the commission of a crime. He was not on anyone's private property. He was not peering into windows. He was not assaulting or threatening anyone. So, why was it necessary for Zimmerman to take it as far as he did?

No, Zimmerman acted on the basis of aggresive ignorance and incompetence and someone paid for it with his life. This is a deed that should not go unpunished.

Al:

Remember, Trayvon was NOT engaging in the commission of a crime.

He wasn't until he decided to start beating Zimmerman. Then he was.

trust_verify:

I don't recall where GZ was following anyone in his truck.

Circumstantial evidence proves he did -otherwise how did the truck get from "on the way to Home Depot" to where it was parked at the entrance to the cut Trayvon took between the buildings?

His truck was parked the entire time he was on the phone with the dispatcher.

Trayvon walked on the sidewalk/street to the corner where George was parked... paraphraseing "he is coming towards me" .. "he is going away".

Says who -Zimmerman? Neither statement is a fact.

run away implies he was guilty and I won't say that

No it doesn't imply any guilt on Trayvon's part -it implies guilt on Zimmerman's part. Victims flee too.

George could no longer see him

You don't know that either -Zimmie's saying so don't make it true.

and got out to locate where he had gone.

Don't know that -he could have gotten out just to follow him, keep up the pursuit. Once you look down that wide open grassy cut between the buildings there's nothing obstructing George's vision, no reason he couldn't have seen Trayvon ahead. Nothing there but a sidewalk running through the open grass. I didn't see any hiding spots.

While George was on the phone I don't think they were ever close enough to "speak" to each other..

George's own big mouth begs to differ -he flat out told the dispatcher he feared the "kid" might hear George telling the dispatcher his address out loud -and he was in the cut at the time, with nothing obstructing his view. There's no reason he wouldn't have been looking at Trayvon ahead of him, and knowing the kid could see and hear him on the phone too. Plus, Trayvon was describing the whole thing to the girl by that time anyway. He described Zimmie's closing the gap and approach too; and she heard Zimmie's voice make contact.

PVBLIVS:

You are completely missing the point. It was Zimmerman's inocrrect actions that led to Trayvon's death. Trayvon was not stalking Zimmerman. He was minding his own business and headed back to where his father was staying. Zimmerman took it upon himself, after calling the police, to confront this child who I again will say was not in the commission of a crime. Why was this so important to Zimmerman? Why not let the police handle this?

You can fast forward to whatever happned between Trayvon and Zimmerman if you will, but Zimmerman's actions precipitated this entire mess. By the way, there is even a question as to the real extent of Zimmerman's injuries.

I will ask this question again though. If Zimmerman was close to being beaten senseless, and Trayvon had such a great physical advantage. how did Zimmerman get out his gun and shoot Trayvon.

No, my friend, there are many questions in this case that ought to be explored in a court of law.

As to Trayvon's parents, tehy are seeking justice. They happen not to accept the Sanford police department's version of events which was based solely on teh testimony of the shooter George Zimmerman. They would be fools if they did. If you were in the same position as Trayvon's parents, you would not either. Zimmerman's parents are supporting him completely and they were not there either. Come on. This is about parents wanting justice for their son. Because there are so many unanswered questions, they are right in their feelings that something is not right.

Remember, they tried to engage the Sanford Police and were essentially stonewalled. They only got action whne the case received national attention through the efforts of Reverend Sharpton.

As far as I am concerned, these parents have reacted with remarkable restraint. I am not sure that I could.

I will ask this question again though. If Zimmerman was close to being beaten senseless, and Trayvon had such a great physical advantage. how did Zimmerman get out his gun and shoot Trayvon.

whether true or not the story goes trayvon found the gun in georges waistband and attempted to get it out

He wasn't until he decided to start beating Zimmerman. Then he was ...

You can't hit someone inside an SUV, with the windows rolled up. Can you?

Which means George shouldn't have put his hands on Trayvon, or stalked him, or called the police in the first place ... Most especially - after calling the police ... disregarded the very sane, sound advice to step away ... his job as a citizen was done.

If it were an emergency a case for SYG... seems weird that it required 10 minutes and moving from the point if contact to some place yards away and outside the vehicle before it became "an emergency". Trayvon did every thing in his power to disengage from Zimmermann. To no avail - he was killed in the attempt to pursue "Life, liberty...". George, on the other hand - killed, in his obsession to "pursue".

trust-verify:

Yes, Zimmerman added that little detail days after the incident, and after consulting with his father, the judge. His story has been carefully crafted to create the impression of self-defense. Unfortunately, Trayvon is not here to tell his side. Let a a court of law sort it out.

Zimmerman has already lied about his finances. He already has a record of arrests for violent encounters. He now has a MySpace account that demonstrates his negative attitude towards Mexicans and where he calls his girlfriend/wife a hoe. This is a real swseetheart of a guy.

Al-2739446

trust-verify:

Yes, Zimmerman added that little detail days after the incident, and after consulting with his father, the judge. His story has been carefully crafted to create the impression of self-defense. Unfortunately, Trayvon is not here to tell his side. Let a a court of law sort it out.

I was not aware that George called his father between the shooting and when the police arrived on scene and took him in for questioning. Are you stating he was on the phone with his father while asking others to call 9-1-1?

Zimmerman has already lied about his finances.

George was in jail for how many days following his arrest? do you think he had access to any communications let alone a computer? He wasn't in prison he was in jail.

He now has a MySpace account that demonstrates his negative attitude towards Mexicans

umm he HAD a myspace account in 2005 that's 7 years ago? Having a negative attitude to those who have done you wrong is NORMAL.

where he calls his girlfriend/wife a hoe.

That would be the EX fiance who had CLAIMED domestic violence but in the end mutual restraining orders were taken out?

This is a real swseetheart of a guy.

He sounds like a real bad ass back then.. Of course we have to go elsewhere to see where he has been active in his community helping others.. try reuters for that because MSNBC can't seem to copy and past anything positive without twisting things.

Al:

You are completely missing the point.

No, I'm really not. I get that you think Zimmerman was wrong for breathing in the wrong spot. But there is no evidence that he was doing anything unlawful. You can follow someone. Indeed, if you are trying to be able to point that person out to the police, it's more or less necessary.

He was minding his own business and headed back to where his father was staying.

Then he should still be alive, unless you think Zimmerman broke down the door.

Zimmerman took it upon himself, after calling the police, to confront this child who I again will say was not in the commission of a crime.

Zimmerman did not confront. Whether you think it out of cowardice or not, Zimmerman kept his distance. His actions were entirely consistent with wanting to point Martin out to the police. Martin came up and attacked Zimmerman.

As to Trayvon's parents, [they] are seeking justice.

I happen not to accept that claim as accurate. They want Zimmerman's head, not justice.

Beoweolf:

Which means George shouldn't have put his hands on Trayvon,

He didn't.

or called the police in the first place

You are saying that if one thinks one has found the person who has been breaking into houses that he should not call the police? Oh, it probably led to Martin attacking him. I think Martin decided he didn't want some ***** ratting him out to the police, and thought he could silence him for good.

Trayvon did every thing in his power to disengage from Zimmermann.

No, if he had, he would have gotten to the place he was staying. Martin was doing everything in his power to make Zimmerman dead.

PVBLIVS-

You are making assertions that have not been proven.

here is what we do know though:

Trayvon was not in that complex to commit a crime.

Trayvon was in that complex visiting his father.

Zimmerman, by his own admission was following Trayvon.

Zimmerman, as heard on the 911 tapes, made a number of erroneous assumptions about Trayvon.

Zimmerman did not follow the dispatcher's instructions not to follow Trayvon.

Zimmerman had 9mm handgun on his person and engaged Trayvon totally contrary to National Neighborhood Watch guidelines and police counsel.

Trayvon's girlfriend indicated that in a phone call during most of this incident, Trayvon indicated he was being followed by someone and he was concerned.

Trayvon was found on the path to where his father was staying some 70 feet from the door.

Although Zimmerman claims that he was about to get back into his truck when Trayvon struck, broke his nose and knocked him to the ground. Zimmerman's truck was more than a 100 feet away from where Trayvon's body was found.

3 voice analysis experts have identified the voice on the 911 calls crying for help as not being that of Zimmerman's.

The degree if Zimmerman's injuries are suspect.

Zimmerman never identified himself to Trayvon. Why not?

If Zimmerman had waited 2 more minutes the police were on the scene. As Trayvon was not committing a crime, what was theurgency for Zimmerman to confront him?

Recently, Zimmerman has lied about his finances in a bail hearing. Even though he was in jail, he had a lawyer who could access any info he needed.

These are the facts.

By the way, doesn't anyone find it curious that Zimmerman never mentioned to the 911 operator that Trayvon was on the phone and carrying Skittles and an iced tea, or at least that he was carrying a package? No, Zimmerman was setting this whole confrontation up in his own head. He had one. Here he is wearing a hoodie, walking around in his neighborhood. and looking "suspicious." Zimmerman was going to to take care of it "because they always get away." He had no idea what Trayvon was trying to get away from, but he knew that "they a;ways get away." But, not this one.

Zimmeran made a series of errors. Errors that resulted in the death of a child. He should pay.

Zimmeran made a series of errors. Errors that resulted in the death of a child. He should pay.

Trayvon made an error by getting into a fight with someone, who happened to have a gun.

Trayvon's girlfriend indicated that in a phone call during most of this incident, Trayvon indicated he was being followed by someone and he was concerned.

You have ZERO proof what was said on her call and for that matter LITTLE of what she states has been published. There is no recording of WHAT she and Trayvon spoke about ... only what her she claims was said.

Although Zimmerman claims that he was about to get back into his truck when Trayvon struck, broke his nose and knocked him to the ground. Zimmerman's truck was more than a 100 feet away from where Trayvon's body was found.

According to Jo-an we don't know where Georges truck was now...per her it was at the mailboxes... Had trayvon simply kept walking he would have arrived where he and his father were visiting, a mere 70 yards... only to find the house empty as they were apparently out for the evening.

Zimmerman never mentioned to the 911 operator that Trayvon was on the phone and carrying Skittles and an iced tea, or at least that he was carrying a package

Perhaps because they were inside his hoodie and waistband? Just like the phone was inside and none of it was visible from a distance in the dark and rain.

Recently, Zimmerman has lied about his finances in a bail hearing. Even though he was in jail, he had a lawyer who could access any info he needed.

You mean the lawyer that was not made aware of the paypal account until the Wednesday AFTER George was released from jail?

You presume a lot of mind reading powers are available for non Blacks. From George to the witnesses to the police, to his lawyer. Then again a lot of anti George types must shrinks or be able to read minds as well since they keep stating what George was thinking and his state of mind. I know what my state of mind would be if someone were beating on my head... I NEED to terminate this threat by any and all means necessary. I'll take my chances with a jury of 12 because the party of six has no vote.

Al:

You are making assertions that have not been proven.

Your criticism might carry a little more weight if you didn't repeat the unproven assertion that Zimmerman engaged Martin. We know that Zimmerman was keeping his distance. If he weren't, that phone call to the girlfriend would be a lot shorter.

Zimmerman, as heard on the 911 tapes, made a number of erroneous assumptions about Trayvon.

Basicly, he thought Martin was the guy that had been robbing houses and he was following him to identify him to the police. (Martin apparently didn't want to be identified to the police.)

Zimmerman did not follow the dispatcher's instructions not to follow Trayvon.

No such instructions were given. The lynch mob reinterprets a disclaimer as instructions. At any rate, the evidence we actually have is that Zimmerman did stop following and was headed back to his truck.

Zimmerman had 9mm handgun on his person and engaged Trayvon totally contrary to National Neighborhood Watch guidelines and police counsel.

Zimmerman did not engage. The claim is a falsehood perpetuated by those that wished Zimmerman died that night.

Trayvon's girlfriend indicated that in a phone call during most of this incident, Trayvon indicated he was being followed by someone and he was concerned.

She's not exactly going to come out and say that her boyfriend saw a ***** that was planning to rat him out to the cops and that her boyfriend decided to "take care of him," is she?

Trayvon was found on the path to where his father was staying some 70 feet from the door.

If Martin were not the instigator, he would have gotten back to where he was staying.

3 voice analysis experts have identified the voice on the 911 calls crying for help as not being that of Zimmerman's

Those experts are suspect. I have already made my prediction that the defense will bring in its own experts. Now, while I'm sure that you will decide that any evidence that seems to favor Zimmerman's case is suspect, it still makes for reasonable doubt.

Zimmerman never identified himself to Trayvon. Why not?

Because, until he was attacked and was getting his head bashed in, he was keeping his distance. He didn't actually want a confrontation. He wanted to point out someone he thought was suspicious out to the police.

If Zimmerman had waited 2 more minutes the police were on the scene. As Trayvon was not committing a crime, what was theurgency for Zimmerman to confront him?

Zimmerman didn't confront Martin. Martin confronted Zimmerman -- and started bashing his head in.

These are the facts.

Actually, you gave quite a bit of fiction and half-truths, there. The facts don't really suit you. And you seem to feel the need to modify them.

Zimmeran made a series of errors. Errors that resulted in the death of a child. He should pay.

Trayvon made an error by getting into a fight with someone, who happened to have a gun.

Trayvon made a mistake by walking through that comnplex and minding his own business. He was targeted because of his appearance,which may have included his race.

Trayvon's girlfriend indicated that in a phone call during most of this incident, Trayvon indicated he was being followed by someone and he was concerned.

You have ZERO proof what was said on her call and for that matter LITTLE of what she states has been published. There is no recording of WHAT she and Trayvon spoke about ... only what her she claims was said.

We have zero proof of Zimmerman's account. Frankly, his injuries, if obtained during a struggle with Trayvon, still only tell a portion of the story. Zimmerman eliminated the ability to get the other side of the story.

Although Zimmerman claims that he was about to get back into his truck when Trayvon struck, broke his nose and knocked him to the ground. Zimmerman's truck was more than a 100 feet away from where Trayvon's body was found.

According to Jo-an we don't know where Georges truck was now...per her it was at the mailboxes... Had trayvon simply kept walking he would have arrived where he and his father were visiting, a mere 70 yards... only to find the house empty as they were apparently out for the evening.

We do know that Zimmerman's truck was not on the walkway. Trayvon was found 100 feet away from the closest point that Zimmerman's truck could have been parked. Again, Trayvon was on the path back to where he belonged. Zimmerman had to be following him and not vice versa.

Zimmerman never mentioned to the 911 operator that Trayvon was on the phone and carrying Skittles and an iced tea, or at least that he was carrying a package

Perhaps because they were inside his hoodie and waistband? Just like the phone was inside and none of it was visible from a distance in the dark and rain.

Interesting. Zimmerman certainly seemed to be able to provide a lot of other detailed information during the call. "He looks suspicious." He's got his hands in his pants." "He may be on drugs."

Recently, Zimmerman has lied about his finances in a bail hearing. Even though he was in jail, he had a lawyer who could access any info he needed.

You mean the lawyer that was not made aware of the paypal account until the Wednesday AFTER George was released from jail?

Why didn't Zimmerman share this with his lawyer. Zimmerman lied-period.

You presume a lot of mind reading powers are available for non Blacks. From George to the witnesses to the police, to his lawyer. Then again a lot of anti George types must shrinks or be able to read minds as well since they keep stating what George was thinking and his state of mind. I know what my state of mind would be if someone were beating on my head... I NEED to terminate this threat by any and all means necessary. I'll take my chances with a jury of 12 because the party of six has no vote

What is important here is Zimmerman's state of mind when he called the police. He had tried and convicted Trayvon because of his appearance. Zimmerman didn't simply say that there was someone in the complex that he didn't recognize and because there had been a string of robberies could the police come and check the guy out. He made a series of value judgements about Trayvon, violated police instructions and those of the National Neighborhood Watch program and ended up engagin in some fashion or another the person he was stalking. Again, Trayvon was not in the process of committing a crime and there was no evidence that he had committed a crime. So, what was the urgency for Zimmerman? Zimmerman took it upon himself to inject himself inot the "situation" and ended up denying Trayvon to his right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That is a crime and Zimmerman should pay.

You are making assertions that have not been proven.

Your criticism might carry a little more weight if you didn't repeat the unproven assertion that Zimmerman engaged Martin. We know that Zimmerman was keeping his distance. If he weren't, that phone call to the girlfriend would be a lot shorter.

It was short.

Zimmerman, as heard on the 911 tapes, made a number of erroneous assumptions about Trayvon.

Basicly, he thought Martin was the guy that had been robbing houses and he was following him to identify him to the police. (Martin apparently didn't want to be identified to the police.)

Zimmerman never said that. He said that houses had been robbed in the area and he was watching a guy who looked suspicious.

Zimmerman did not follow the dispatcher's instructions not to follow Trayvon.

No such instructions were given. The lynch mob reinterprets a disclaimer as instructions. At any rate, the evidence we actually have is that Zimmerman did stop following and was headed back to his truck.

The dispatcher clearly said in response to Zimmerman saying that he WAS folowing Trayvon, that "we dont't need you to do that." We have no evidence that Zimmerman was headed back to his truck. Zimmerman even claims that he was about to get into his truck when Trayvon broke his nose and knocked him down. However, Trayvon's body was found 100 feet away from Zimmerman's truck. By the way, why wouldn't Zimmerman follow the instructions of the police dispatcher?

Zimmerman had 9mm handgun on his person and engaged Trayvon totally contrary to National Neighborhood Watch guidelines and police counsel.

Zimmerman did not engage. The claim is a falsehood perpetuated by those that wished Zimmerman died that night.

Trayvon wasn't stalking Zimmerman. He was headed back to where his father was staying.

Trayvon's girlfriend indicated that in a phone call during most of this incident, Trayvon indicated he was being followed by someone and he was concerned.

She's not exactly going to come out and say that her boyfriend saw a ***** that was planning to rat him out to the cops and that her boyfriend decided to "take care of him," is she?

Not following you here. Why would Trayvon be afraid of being ratted out to the cops when he clearly wasn't committing any crime. That dog won't hunt.

Trayvon was found on the path to where his father was staying some 70 feet from the door.

If Martin were not the instigator, he would have gotten back to where he was staying.

Why did Zimmerman end up 100 feet away fro his truck where he shot Trayvon?

3 voice analysis experts have identified the voice on the 911 calls crying for help as not being that of Zimmerman's

Those experts are suspect. I have already made my prediction that the defense will bring in its own experts. Now, while I'm sure that you will decide that any evidence that seems to favor Zimmerman's case is suspect, it still makes for reasonable doubt.

Fine. Where are they?

Zimmerman never identified himself to Trayvon. Why not?

Because, until he was attacked and was getting his head bashed in, he was keeping his distance. He didn't actually want a confrontation. He wanted to point out someone he thought was suspicious out to the police.

He did not want a confrontation???? He was out following this kid with a 9mm in his pants, and had said on the 911 tape that "they always get away."

If Zimmerman had waited 2 more minutes the police were on the scene. As Trayvon was not committing a crime, what was theurgency for Zimmerman to confront him?

Zimmerman didn't confront Martin. Martin confronted Zimmerman -- and started bashing his head in.

If Zimmerman's head were being bashed in his injuries would have been far more severe.

These are the facts.

Actually, you gave quite a bit of fiction and half-truths, there. The facts don't really suit you. And you seem to feel the need to modify them.

What you have here is a case of an innocent child ending up dead because some cop wannabe underachiever decides that he looks suspicious. In spite of being told by the 911 operator not to follow the "suspect" he did so anyway. Why???? If he had not, we would not be discussing this case and no ones house would have been robbed. That is a fact and it id not in dispute.

In a nutshell!

What you have here is a case of an innocent child ending up dead because some cop wannabe underachiever decides that he looks suspicious. In spite of being told by the 911 operator not to follow the "suspect" he did so anyway. Why???? If he had not, we would not be discussing this case and no ones house would have been robbed. That is a fact and it id not in dispute.

Thank you Al! You've summed it up nicely!

Al:

It was short.

But for your claim to hold, it would have to be significantly shorter. Indeed, for your claim to work, Martin could not have had time to tell his girlfriend that he was being followed.

Zimmerman never said that. He said that houses had been robbed in the area and he was watching a guy who looked suspicious.

And what obvious conclusion can you draw from the fact that houses have been robbed and Zimmerman says a particular young man looks suspicious? You who draw a convoluted conclusion to claim tham Zimmerman lied about funds he had no knowledge of at the time. (He set up a site for donations. But, at the time, he had no way to check what was actually received.) Unless you want to concede that you were entirely out of line for your accusations of lying, you will have to accept that he thought Martin was the guy that had been robbing houses and that he was following him to identify him to the police -- without requiring him to have spelled it out on the call to the police.

The dispatcher clearly said in response to Zimmerman saying that he WAS folowing Trayvon, that "we dont't need you to do that."

Which, despite your fantasy, constitutes a disclaimer rather than an instruction. Even worse, you are using the fact that he followed prior to that question for your "even though he was told not to."

Trayvon wasn't stalking Zimmerman. He was headed back to where his father was staying.

If that were true, he would have gotten there. Instead, he decided to engage Zimmerman.

He did not want a confrontation????

No, he did not want a confrontation. He wanted the police to catch the guy that he thought was a threat to the neighborhood. But he didn't want to take any risks himself. He mistakenly thought he was safe at a distance.

If Zimmerman's head were being bashed in his injuries would have been far more severe.

The only evidence you would have accepted was Zimmerman already being dead. Even then, you would talk about how Martin was "just so innocent."

And then you go on to spout the line of garbage propagated by the people that wish Martin had successfully killed Zimmerman that night. Jo Ann likes it. But she wishes Zimmerman were dead.

Pvblivs

And then you go on to spout the line of garbage propagated by the people that wish Martin had successfully killed Zimmerman that night. Jo Ann likes it. But she wishes Zimmerman were dead.

You really are QUITE funny....

You playin here all week?

Pvblivs:

Trayvon told his girlfriend that he was being followed. Then the phone went dead. The phone going dead coincides with whatever occurred a minute or so before Trayvon was shot. If Trayvon was on his way back to where he was staying, and Zimmerman had observed him from the time he entered the complex, the length of the phone call makes perfect sense.

As to Zimmerman thinking that Trayvon was someone who had been robbing houses, your assertion doesn't hold. Zimmerman rendered all manner of opinion on Trayvon whom he had never seen before. Certainly, if he thought that Trayvon was someone who had robbed houses in the area he would have told the 911 operator.

The operator said that "we don't need you to do that." What does that mean to you?

If Zimmerman was not following Trayvon, why was he out of his truck and 70 feet away from Trayvon's destination? As Columbo used to say, "That's just one of the things that bothers me about this case."

No, my friend. I don't want to see anyone dead for something this stupid. This was a waste. Totally unnecessary. But, this is what happens when we want to see a gun in every idiot's hands.

Al:

The operator said that "we don't need you to do that." What does that mean to you?

Standard disclaimer. That way, if he got hurt, the city couldn't get sued. An order, like you claim, would be "don't do that." But dispatch isn't authorized to give orders as they would expose the city to liability if things went sour.

If Zimmerman was not following Trayvon,

That Zimmerman followed Martin is not in dispute. It is your claim that he confronted him which I say is fictional.

Pvblivs:

The operator said that "we don't need you to do that." What does that mean to you?

Standard disclaimer. That way, if he got hurt, the city couldn't get sued. An order, like you claim, would be "don't do that." But dispatch isn't authorized to give orders as they would expose the city to liability if things went sour.

What that means is that there was no necessity for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon. The police were a couple of minutes away, Zimmerman was not a police officer, and Trayvon was not committing a crime. Perhaps the advice of the 911 Operator was designed exactly to prevent this type of tragedy. Certainly, in retrospect, I would think that even you would agree that it would have been better for Zimmerman to remain in his vehicle. Certainly, even you do not think that Zimmerman's overzealousness was worth the life of a child, do you?

If Zimmerman was not following Trayvon,

That Zimmerman followed Martin is not in dispute. It is your claim that he confronted him which I say is fictional.

If you concede that Zimmerman followed Trayvon, that would seem to indicate that Zimmerman is the aggressor here. If Zimmerman is following Trayvon and Trayvon is going back to where he is supposed to be, who is the culprit? Bottom line-if Zimmerman had not followed Trayvon, who was innocent of any crime, there would have been no shooting regardless of how it started. You have absolutely no proof that Zimmerman did not start the confrontation. In fact, it is probably more likely that he did given that he had a problem with Trayvon and not vice versa. The difference int he conversations between Zimmerman and the 911 operator and the conversation between Trayvon and his girlfriend attest to that.

As I understand it Zimmerman has changed his story at least 5 times since the incident. The lead investigator did not believe him. He talked to his judge father and tightened up his story.

The sad thing here is that he will probably go free. God help us all.

What that means is that there was no necessity for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon.

A lack of necessity to do something does not entail a necessity to stop.

If you concede that Zimmerman followed Trayvon, that would seem to indicate that Zimmerman is the aggressor here.

Incorrect. Following someone is not, in and of itself, aggressive behavior. Following someone to identify him to the police does not make one an aggressor.

You have absolutely no proof that Zimmerman did not start the confrontation.

Well, fortunately for me, it is the prosecutor who has the burden of proof.

In fact, it is probably more likely that he did given that he had a problem with Trayvon and not vice versa.

I disagree. If he were going to start a confrontation, he would not have called the police. He only called the police after he saw Martin. Seriously, if you plan to harrass someone, you do not call the police to make it easier for them to arrest you. Now, maybe Zimmerman was that stupid. But I somehow doubt it. And the evidence of the injuries suggests that Martin did have a problem with Zimmerman. My own personal belief is that he didn't want Zimmerman ratting him out to the cops.

What that means is that there was no necessity for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon.

A lack of necessity to do something does not entail a necessity to stop.

Fine. But, the question has to remain-why was this so urgent to Zimmerman?

If you concede that Zimmerman followed Trayvon, that would seem to indicate that Zimmerman is the aggressor here.

Incorrect. Following someone is not, in and of itself, aggressive behavior. Following someone to identify him to the police does not make one an aggressor.

But, the police told him that they did not need him to do that.

You have absolutely no proof that Zimmerman did not start the confrontation. do that

Well, fortunately for me, it is the prosecutor who has the burden of proof.

Exactamundo!!!

In fact, it is probably more likely that he did given that he had a problem with Trayvon and not vice versa.

I disagree. If he were going to start a confrontation, he would not have called the police. He only called the police after he saw Martin. Seriously, if you plan to harrass someone, you do not call the police to make it easier for them to arrest you. Now, maybe Zimmerman was that stupid. But I somehow doubt it. And the evidence of the injuries suggests that Martin did have a problem with Zimmerman. My own personal belief is that he didn't want Zimmerman ratting him out to the cops.

First, he said on the 911 tape that "they always get away." He was going to make sure that this one did not get away.

Second, we don't know what the injuries suggest.

Third, and this is your most preposterous assertion, why would Martin be concerned about Zimmerman calling the cops when he was not committing a crime. Not even Zimmerman accuses him of that. Trayvon was clearly coming home from the store with a bag of Skittles and iced tea while talking on the phone with his girlfriend. Now, as egregious as these activities might be, most would not consider them criminal. However, what is probably criminal is the fact that a grown man, who wants to be a cop, who claims indigence, who carries a 9mm in his pants, and who is know for being overzealous, is following someone who is not committing a crime against the statement of the 911 operator and National Neighborhood Watch rules.

Here is what it comes down to me. Absent Zimmerman's presence at preecisely the same time Trayvon was returning innocently to where he belonged, Trayvon is alive and Zimmerman is running loose with a 9mm in his pants. Zimmerman was th instrument of death, not Trayvon.

Fine. But, the question has to remain-why was this so urgent to Zimmerman?

The fact that several houses had been robbed and he thought he saw a likely perpetrator springs to mind.

But, the police told him that they did not need him to do that. [After all, catching the people robbing the neighborhood is, like, work. If Zimmerman could point to somebody, they would have to do all that work to determine whether he was one of the robbers or not. It's so much easier if the guy Zimmerman suspects gets away and is inidentifiable.]

I am not going to fault Zimmerman for continuing to want to identify someone to the police. But even at that, he did stop following, with the result that Martin had the perfect escape. But what's this? Martin came back. Martin didn't know that Zimmerman couldn't identify him completely. So he decided to "take care of the problem."

Here's what it comes down to. If Martin had simply walked home, he would be alive. If Zimmerman were to see Martin enter the residence, he would give the address to the police and that would be it. But the police might have asked to have a look around. Maybe Martin was a burglar (not active on this trip, but still not wanting police snooping around his room.) That would explain why he came back.

Zimmerman never said he thought Trayvon was the likely perpetrator of the home burglaries in his area. He did not say it to the 911 operator, and he has not said it since the incident. There is nothing to suggest that Trayvon was committing a crime or had committed a crime in that neighborhood.

If Martin were concerned about being caught, he would have gotten out of there as quickly as he could. But, he did not. He actually was going back to where he belonged.

Please explain to me, and you have not, how Trayvon's body could have been found 100 feet away from Zimmerman's truck when Zimmerman claims that he was hit in the face as he was getting into his truck. So, it appears that Zimmerman was a long way from his truck.

Please explain to me how Trayvon was coming back to attack Zimmerman when his path is clearly back to where he was living.

The fact of the matter is that Trayvon was simply walking home until Zimmerman intervened. The fact is that Zimmerman could have been a threatening presence to Trayvon. The fact is that Zimmerman shot an unarmed child who was not committing a crime, or as far as we know who had ever committed a crime in that area.

There were a lot of suppositions on Zimmerman's part-all erroneous. Those are the suppositions that led to Trayvon's death. If Zimmerman let's the police handle it, we would probabl;y have had a completley different situation. But, no, he comments on the 911 tape "they always get away" and then" F-ing goons" or some other term of endearment.

I think that it is completely possible that Zimmerman physically confronted Trayvon, then Trayvon got the best of him and Zimmerman shot him. That theory works as well as any. But, the reality is that I do not know and neither do you. However, what I do know suggests that Zimmerman instigated something.

Please explain to me, and you have not, how Trayvon's body could have been found 100 feet away from Zimmerman's truck when Zimmerman claims that he was hit in the face as he was getting into his truck. So, it appears that Zimmerman was a long way from his truck.

PLEASE explain where you have those words from GEORGE... not his family or some LEAK. An actual citation to his statement.

Please explain to me how Trayvon was coming back to attack Zimmerman when his path is clearly back to where he was living.

Please explain how Trayvon encountered George if Trayvon had a significant lead down the path without doubling back or laying in wait for George to walk by. Remember Trayvon was far enough away to disappear from sight is what appears to have prompted George to get out of his vehicle and look for Trayvon before being advised "We don't need you to do that"

The fact is that Zimmerman shot an unarmed child who was not committing a crime,

You mean other than assault and battery?

I think that it is completely possible that Zimmerman physically confronted Trayvon, then Trayvon got the best of him and Zimmerman shot him. That theory works as well as any. But, the reality is that I do not know and neither do you. However, what I do know suggests that Zimmerman instigated something.

And that is the crux of the debate and the purpose of the court at this point.

Please explain to me, and you have not, how Trayvon's body could have been found 100 feet away from Zimmerman's truck when Zimmerman claims that he was hit in the face as he was getting into his truck. So, it appears that Zimmerman was a long way from his truck.

PLEASE explain where you have those words from GEORGE... not his family or some LEAK. An actual citation to his statement.

I have access to the same information that you do. Everything that is in the media. If Zimmerman was not getting inot his truck when he was struck, where was he? Quite a distance from his truck is the answer. This indicates that he was clearly following Trayvon and was probably seen as a threat.

Please explain to me how Trayvon was coming back to attack Zimmerman when his path is clearly back to where he was living.

Please explain how Trayvon encountered George if Trayvon had a significant lead down the path without doubling back or laying in wait for George to walk by. Remember Trayvon was far enough away to disappear from sight is what appears to have prompted George to get out of his vehicle and look for Trayvon before being advised "We don't need you to do that"

Because Zimmerman in his overzealousness continued to follow Trayvon in spite of teh instructions from the diospatcher and Neightborhood Watch Association National rules.

The fact is that Zimmerman shot an unarmed child who was not committing a crime,

You mean other than assault and battery?

Only if Zimmerman did not initiate the conflict. If he did, and Tryavon simply got the better of him, that is a different story. But, since Zimmerman was able to get out his gun and aqueeze off a shot even though the was being beaten senseless, why couldn't he have simply held Trayvon at bay?

I think that it is completely possible that Zimmerman physically confronted Trayvon, then Trayvon got the best of him and Zimmerman shot him. That theory works as well as any. But, the reality is that I do not know and neither do you. However, what I do know suggests that Zimmerman instigated something.

And that is the crux of the debate and the purpose of the court at this point.

Yes. Hopefully, the court will decide that Zimmerman is responsible on some level becaue he entered a non-criminal situation and ended up killing someone who was innocent. All he had to do was wait for the police. He did not. Don't you also wonder why Zimmerman never identified himself to Trayvon. Nowhere in his testimony has he ever claimed to have told Trayvon who he was and why he was watching him. Isn't that strange? If he was really just interested in finding out the facts, wouldn't that havbe been the first thing to do?

Again, Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone and holding purchases he had just made from the local 7-11. He chose to paint the erroneous picture of Trayvon "reaching for something" and "he's got something in his pants." What irony. Zimmerman was the one with the lethal and legal weapon in his pants. Unfortunately, when gun permits are issued they do not take inot account the common sense quotient for who is being issued the permit. But, beyond that, Zimmerman wanted the cops to come to that complex thinking that Trayvon was possibly armed when there was nothing to indicate that this was the case. Zimmerman was irresponsible on a number of accounts and sense he had the 9mm millimeter the responsibility for the actions that occured because of his involvement fall on his head.

I have access to the same information that you do. Everything that is in the media. If Zimmerman was not getting inot his truck when he was struck, where was he? Quite a distance from his truck is the answer. This indicates that he was clearly following Trayvon and was probably seen as a threat.

ALL it CLEARLY indicates is that he was away from his truck. He MAY have followed for a period but being decked on the common area walkway does not indicate more than he was on the common area.

Because Zimmerman in his overzealousness continued to follow Trayvon in spite of teh instructions from the diospatcher and Neightborhood Watch Association National rules.

Being overzealous does not make him fast on his feet. It was obvious from the wind and heavy breathing that George is not in football player shape. Presuming that George was on the street when Trayvon turned the corner he had a clear lead on George and would need little effort to maintain that distance so long as he continued on his way. It APPEARS he either stopped or doubled back to meet George where they had their fight. Especially since per DeeDee they met face to face not one approaching from behind per her.

Again, Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone and holding purchases he had just made from the local 7-11. He chose to paint the erroneous picture of Trayvon "reaching for something" and "he's got something in his pants."

Apparently those items were not in plain sight. George never stated he was reaching for anything only that the suspicious person was reaching into his waistband.

Unfortunately, when gun permits are issued they do not take inot account the common sense quotient for who is being issued the permit.

not on the list.. if it were most police officers couldn't carry on the job.

I'll give you the responsibility fell on George up until there was a physical altercation. I know that if I was carrying a gun I sure wouldn't get into a fist fight.

I have access to the same information that you do. Everything that is in the media. If Zimmerman was not getting inot his truck when he was struck, where was he? Quite a distance from his truck is the answer. This indicates that he was clearly following Trayvon and was probably seen as a threat.

ALL it CLEARLY indicates is that he was away from his truck. He MAY have followed for a period but being decked on the common area walkway does not indicate more than he was on the common area.

And he was obviously still in pursuit contrary to the 911 operators instructions and teh National Neighborhood Watch guidelines.

Because Zimmerman in his overzealousness continued to follow Trayvon in spite of teh instructions from the diospatcher and Neightborhood Watch Association National rules.

Being overzealous does not make him fast on his feet. It was obvious from the wind and heavy breathing that George is not in football player shape. Presuming that George was on the street when Trayvon turned the corner he had a clear lead on George and would need little effort to maintain that distance so long as he continued on his way. It APPEARS he either stopped or doubled back to meet George where they had their fight. Especially since per DeeDee they met face to face not one approaching from behind per her.

Then perhaps Trayvon was standing his ground.

Again, Zimmerman never mentioned that Trayvon was on the phone and holding purchases he had just made from the local 7-11. He chose to paint the erroneous picture of Trayvon "reaching for something" and "he's got something in his pants."

Apparently those items were not in plain sight. George never stated he was reaching for anything only that the suspicious person was reaching into his waistband.

Implication was that he was reaching for something or why would that have been significant enough to mention to the 911 operator? I cannot believe that Zimmerman could not see that Martin was on the phone.

Unfortunately, when gun permits are issued they do not take inot account the common sense quotient for who is being issued the permit.

not on the list.. if it were most police officers couldn't carry on the job.

Agreed.

I'll give you the responsibility fell on George up until there was a physical altercation. I know that if I was carrying a gun I sure wouldn't get into a fist fight.

If I was carrying a gun, I would not seek out an altercation.

And he was obviously still in pursuit contrary to the 911 operators instructions and teh National Neighborhood Watch guidelines.

Nothing obvious about that ... any more than Trayvon ducking in the eves means he was scoping the place out.

Then perhaps Trayvon was standing his ground.

yawn... reaching there at best. You want George to jump through all sorts of hoops and take responsibility for his actions ... now you are want to absolve Trayvon of all he did. You have previously stated Trayvon was soooo close to "home"... he had plenty of time to get home. The only reason for him to stand his ground would be to show off for DeeDee OBVIOUSLY. As far as Trayvon knew, his father was waiting for him and would have dealt with the BIG BAD man following him.

Implication was that he was reaching for something or why would that have been significant enough to mention to the 911 operator? I cannot believe that Zimmerman could not see that Martin was on the phone.

Yes that was the implication. What else would someone carry in their waistband? Granted George was influenced by the fact he was carrying but most people would think of a weapon being carried in the waistband. Even police have shot people reaching for cell phones or other things in their pockets believing they were drawing a weapon.

When this went down it was raining, dark and there was distance. I haven't seen where Trayvon carried his phone(pocket, belt clip). We do know now that he was using some sort of headset. Wired or bluetooth I haven't seen. I've used a wired headset with the phone on a belt clip... and had people not realize I was on the phone in broad daylight 5 feet away. Perhaps Trayvon was like many people who, even on the phone, are quite animated and speak with their hands. In the dark at a distance that could be construed as gesturing (flipping off), or mental issues (drug influence).

What this discussion demonstrates is that there are questions that should be decided by a court of law. I think that was what the whole issue was about from the beginning.

However, I do disagree with your assessment of the theory that Trayvon may have been standing his ground. Remember, he did not know who Zimmerman was. How do you know that he did not feel threatened by Zimmerman and felt the need to defend himself. Neither of us know exactly how the altercation started between the two, but that expalnation is as viable as any other.

Again, Trayvon cannot speak for himself.

My problem is how an unarmed 17 year old ends up dead returning home from the 7-11. Something is wrong. The reality is that if Zimmerman had stayed in that truck none of this would have happened. That is at the crux of the issue for me.

The other issue for me is why Trayvon was suspicious in the first place. Was it his behavior or something else. All of Zimmerman's descriptions of Trayvon's behavior were subjective at best. None of those descriptions included any reference to a crime being committed. So, what was it?

What was so urgent that it required Zimmerman not to wait for the police. What??

I have a black male son who is not much older than Trayvon. I can tell you those questions would haunt me forever.

I have a black male son who is not much older than Trayvon. I can tell you those questions would haunt me forever.

There in lies the bite. I would have questions if it were my child... not age, race, or gender based. The race/ethnicity seems to be the focus.

When George contacted dispatch he was giving context. The question from dispatch would be much as you have just asked. Why is this person of interest to the caller? the answer would be there had been a series of break ins. Ok why is THIS individual standing out? answer he seems suspicious to the caller. The observed person is doing this.... acting strange, may be on drugs, reaching for something in his waist band. Dispatch then asks ... tell us what this person looks like.. and George proceeds to do just that and describes what ensues from there. Not unlike any call I've made to 9-1-1. Not unlike the majority of calls that 9-1-1 receives on a daily basis.

However, I do disagree with your assessment of the theory that Trayvon may have been standing his ground. Remember, he did not know who Zimmerman was.

So you are in an unfamiliar area and proceeding somewhere that is more secure. You believe someone is following you. Remember Trayvon was supposedly CONCERNED about this BIG BAD MAN who appeared to be following him. Safety is just 70 yards away... what is that, a ten second run for a football player? I'm not placing ALL the blame on Trayvon. I'm simply questioning his actions as you are questioning Georges. By most accounts Trayvon was a strapping young man, an athlete, had his GF on the phone. Which would make him feel/appear more of a "MAN" in his mind in her eyes?

We agree to disagree. leave it at that until we hear more.

I won't claim politics when he is convicted. I don't want to hear racism when he is cleared eventually. And I think we both agree either way there is no excuse for rioting, celebration, or protests in the streets whatever the outcome.

Al-2739446,

You are CORRECT! I worry about my children for many reasons, but it does appear, you have more reason to worry than me. Simply because mine are white! Very sad...

I have no doubt, Trayvon was standing his ground that night! He was doing nothing more than walking and talking on the phone. GZ "assumed" and he assumed wrong! Travyon did NOT know who GZ was, in fear he fought to get away, and the gun won!

Some people will go to great lengths to defend the actions of vigilante GZ, they are just trying to defend their right to shoot first, ask questions later! They fear black teens, and want the right to kill them! Folks over on Faux are stirring, and stirring hard! They hope to start riots, and then BLAME the blacks.....

It's all quite sick!

Hug your son, and hopefully he won't have to worry quite as much for his own son!!

Jo-An-4354969

Just couldn't stay away could you?

Had to make it about race even.

I don't think reasonable people want riots but as a general rule Blacks have been majority participants as of late, OWS was not a riot.

How's your "boy" doing with finding those current statistics on those cities?

Actually, YOU made it about RACE!

The race/ethnicity seems to be the focus.

Which of course it IS....because of "old white" guys like YOU!

You defend GZ because YOU want to "retain" the "right" to kill blacks!

Just admit it, you'll feel better!

Jo-An-4354969

Actually, YOU made it about RACE!

The race/ethnicity seems to be the focus.

Stating a FACT does not mean I made it anything. The ocean is aqua marine is a fact. That the focus has been George is not Black and Trayvon was Black was the focus from the beginning by not only the media but the Martins. I had ZERO to due with their views.

Which of course it IS....because of "old white" guys like YOU!

Seems that the OLD "reverends" are the ones who made it about race... "their people" not all people. YOU seem overly concerned about Black males not ALL people.

You defend GZ because YOU want to "retain" the "right" to kill blacks!

I RESERVE the right to shoot anyone who is attempting to do serious bodily harm or cause death to me. I don't need SYG for that. It's called self defense. In about 48 states anyone beating on another needs to consider that self defense is a viable option for the defender. George being convicted or the FL legislature changing the SYG law will not change those facts.

Just admit it, you'll feel better!

Perhaps if your "boy" would take his hand out of your arse you would feel better or at least like a marionette rather than a hand puppet.

BOW out gracefully. Al-2739446 and I seem to have agreed to disagree without bashing each other too badly. We don't need you trying to stir up crap.

Perhaps if your "boy"

At least you've stopped "pretending NOT to be a racist!

LOL somehow referring to your puppet master as your "boy" is racist? Perhaps you should examine your values and figure out why your mind goes directly to RACE.

LOL somehow referring to your puppet master as your "boy" is racist?

Perhaps you could tell me who my "boy" is??? And then we will see, if you are using the term "boy" in a racist manner.

I can't wait to find out who my "boy" is!

you are missing your opportunity to show you don't just support suspicious black males

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/05/11/11660804-marissa-alexander-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shot-after-stand-your-ground-defense-fails?threadId=3416514&commentId=65822722#c65822722

You BAILED the last time she came up in discussion when I cam out on her side.

I can't wait to find out who my "boy" is!

You canNOT be THAT STUPID Jo-An. We both know MRperryrice has his hand up your backside working your mouth. That he happens to be Black has nothing to do with me calling him your "boy". Your boy on the other hand(no pun intended) is your son. Who else would I call your "boy"? Is someone else putting words in your mouth?

You canNOT be THAT STUPID Jo-An. We both know MRperryrice has his hand up your backside working your mouth. That he happens to be Black has nothing to do with me calling him your "boy". Your boy on the other hand(no pun intended) is your son. Who else would I call your "boy"? Is someone else putting words in your mouth?

You are an ignorant RACIST old fool....

I surely don't need anyone telling me how to think or what to say! But I will be delighted to send Mrperryrice over to this post, so he can chat you up....of course you will run and hide, cause you can't take his barbs! LOL...

Personal insults and name calling....that's all ya got!

@ trust_verify #3.75...

t_v, you consider the lack of investigating a man who instigated a situation where he ended up shooting an unarmed black teen as nothing to do with race. there's no way that if the roles had been reversed trayvon would not have been arrested, would have had excessive bail and certainly would not have hundreds of thousands of dollars in donations.

however, in comment 655.3 you associated the attack of a white man by two black teens to gain possession of his truck as racially motivated. this was obviously a crime for material gain but in this case you "made it about race".

did you ever consider trayvon didn't wish to proceed to his destination because he didn't want this stranger (trayvon's assessment of him being a "bad man" was correct since trayvon is now dead) to know where his family resided?

the problem with this syg law is that it can be applied in such a way as to be discriminating. a white person will not doubt be overwhelmingly successful in the claim that killing a black or other minority during an altercation was justified because they were in fear of their life.

however, in comment 655.3 you associated the attack of a white man by two black teens to gain possession of his truck as racially motivated. this was obviously a crime for material gain but in this case you "made it about race".

try again irene. The two THUGS pulled this guy out of his vehicle ON THE STREET beat him unconcsous then dragged him to the side and beat him some more. They then drove the vehicle 1/2 mile and abandon it. This was at the same time that the protests were going on in Sanford and not that far from where where Trayvon was killed.

The entire media reporting on this has been biased. The RARE instant where a Black is killed by a NON Black is now national news but when a Black attacks and leaves for dead a White it barely makes the local papers and they don't DARE mention race for FEAR of Black retaliation.

the problem with this syg law is that it can be applied in such a way as to be discriminating. a white person will not doubt be overwhelmingly successful in the claim that killing a black or other minority during an altercation was justified because they were in fear of their life.

I thought we had resolved that George was not white ... but I guess the consensus now is he was not BLACK is the real issue.

The problem with ANY law seems to be application. For some reason though, it only makes news when someone cries racial bias. The kicker is even when a Black Judge, officer, prosecutor; convict a Black male it is somehow racially motivated prosecution. Never mind that that Black male has been convicted of a CRIME against a Black victim.

Why is it when a NON black points out a Black on White crime that appears to be racially motivated that makes the person RACIST but when a Black person points out what appears to be racially motivated it is OK and they are NOT being bias or racially motivated? Let me guess it's that equal but special treatment thing again.

Let me guess when those two punks pulled this guy out of his SUV and took him into the woods then drove off they decided it had white koodies and had to abandon it. The local paper reported a description of "Both of the attackers are about 20 years old. One is 5 feet, 8 inches tall and was wearing blue denim shorts. He was not wearing a shirt. The second man was 5 feet, 10 inches tall." but failed to mention race... EVEN AFTER THEY WERE ARRESTED. But the MOMENT the GZ case went to the MSM it was White .... kills Black.....

When it happened

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-27/news/os-attempted-homicide-seminole-20120327_1_critical-condition-attackers-second-man

After they were arrested

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-04-02/news/os-two-arrested-seminole-beating-20120402_1_victim-arrest-affidavits-crimeline

Jo-An

I surely don't need anyone telling me how to think or what to say! But I will be delighted to send Mrperryrice over to this post, so he can chat you up....of course you will run and hide, cause you can't take his barbs! LOL...

Nope.. just pulling your strings, working your lips and putting words in your mouth for you to parrot. Mrperryrice would rather play games, much like you, than debate facts. He would rather be "the bad ass" than contribute much of anything. Now you be sure to run and tattle to him... I've said as much to his virtual face. Seems neither he nor you have had much to say since I won't play your games.

do you have anything of value to contribute or are you just bored of the beach and cackling to make yourself feel important?

You are an ignorant RACIST old fool....

I surely don't need anyone telling me how to think or what to say! But I will be delighted to send Mrperryrice over to this post, so he can chat you up....of course you will run and hide, cause you can't take his barbs! LOL...

Personal insults and name calling....that's all ya got!

So, is calling someone an "ignorant racist old fool" not calling someone a name or is it not a personal insult? Just curious.

since I won't play your games.

Yet, you just can't resist can you!

bohnmann,

No, that would just be the facts!

Al

If Martin had been successful in beating Zimmerman to death, he may indeed have claimed "stand your ground" -- if he were even charged.

Irene:

did you ever consider trayvon didn't wish to proceed to his destination because he didn't want this stranger (trayvon's assessment of him being a "bad man" was [incorrect]) to know where his family resided?

I have commented on it before, myself. He didn't want some ***** pointing the address out to the cops and have them ask to have a look around. Now, I realize that you think Zimmerman was supposed to die that night and that he was a "bad man" because he acted to defend his own life. But, quite frankly, if Martin did not attack him he would still be alive. Using a self-defense shooting to claim Zimmerman a "bad man" is just wrong. I do not think Zimmerman had any obligation to lay there and die.

Bohnmann:

So, is calling someone an "ignorant racist old fool" not calling someone a name or is it not a personal insult? Just curious.

Some people just can't be civil with disagreement. They don't like facts.

Jo-An-4354969

I guess Marissa Alexander doesn't interest you.. haven't seen your two cents there yet... Is Cory no longer your hero since she prosecuted Marissa Alexander? Or is it that I am almost in Marissa Alexander's corner and you just can't bear the thought of being on the same side? Or is it Marissa is a Black woman and you only defend Black males.

Yet, you just can't resist can you!

You came to THIS conversation not the other way around.

Pvblivs,

Right? I keep saying that!

If ole t_v would just embrace the facts, we'd all be so much better off!

irene46,

Old white racists, can't grasp facts, they just keep believing the lies being told by the frwnj website's and FAUX NOISE!

Jo-An-4354969

We try to debate FACTS with you then you start the whining, bating (spelled correctly) and name calling then more of the same when it is returned.

the real fact here is you can't handle the facts and would prefer that I were a racist to justify your position. It's going to be a boring summer since there aren't any new facts coming forth on this. I've better things to do than play your game.

It appears that those who support Zimmerman are hinging their position oh the idea that he was being beaten senseless and in fear of death.

I am basing my support of Trayvon on the following:

• He was not in the process of committing a crime.
• He was on his way back to where he belonged.
• He was unarmed.
• He was on a common walkway.
• The testimony of the survivor of this incident could be self-serving.
• Zimmerman went to great lengths to paint the portrait of a criminal or drug user when describing Trayvon.
• Zimmerman never bothered to identify himself to Trayvon and simply ask him if he had business in that complex.
• Zimmerman was armed.
• Zimmerman was advised not to follow Trayvon by the 911 operator.
• What was so urgent that Zimmerman needed to get as involved as he did?
• Even if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman, we do not know what precipitated that action. Conceivably, Zimmerman could have been the aggresor and Trayvon simply got the best of him.
• For someone who was beaten almost senseless, why didn't Zimmerman go to the hospital and why did he seem unhurt or unfazed in the video of him in the lockup.
• Zimmerman has a history of overzealousness and violence.
• The initial investigator did not believe Zimmerman. He got the first story from Zimmerman and felt it was not true.
• Young black males are targeted and profiled wiht a higher degree of frequency than any other demographic group.
• The Sanford Police essentially exonerated Zimmerman at the scene.
• Trayvon's body laid in the Medical Examiner's office for three days before the parents could locate him.
• Trayvon is not here to speak for himself.
• There is something wrong when a kid goes out to the 7-11 and is killed on the way home.

I would like to hear answers to all of these issues. Trayvon's parents deserve nothing less.

Finally, no, I do not support riots in the event of an acquittal. By the way, neither do Reverends Sharpton and Jackson, Trayvon's parents or their attorneys. What we want is a full accounting of this tragedy. If Zimmerman is acquitted, I will accept it because that is the system of justice we have. I may not agree with it, but I will accept it. But it really isn't about me or anyone else here. It is aobut Trayvon and his grieving parents.

Al-2739446

HOW MANY TIMES do you need those questions answered? Or are you just recycling the old ones simply to keep the argument going?

He was not in the process of committing a crime.

Other than beating on George? As best we know you are correct beyond the fight

He was on his way back to where he belonged.
He was unarmed.
He was on a common walkway.

No arguments there.

The testimony of the survivor of this incident could be self-serving.

Agreed it could be... Actually probably is to some degree.

Zimmerman went to great lengths to paint the portrait of a criminal or drug user when describing Trayvon.

Answered previously. He described why he suspected the person he was observing. Why do you feel it was great lengths?

Zimmerman never bothered to identify himself to Trayvon and simply ask him if he had business in that complex.

You know this for a fact? Just when was he supposed to identify himself prior to the physical altercation? Are you basing this on DeeDee's claim? Other than reports/leaks what do you know she said? Is there a chance her statement may be bias? She WAS his "ho" ... Trayvons words. As his gf, and yes at 17 he could have a serous gf she might just want to say things in his favor... though it is strange that it took her DAYS to come forward and does not appear to have made much effort to find out why Trayvon did not return her calls, nor did she leave a message on his number.

Zimmerman was armed.
Zimmerman was advised not to follow Trayvon by the 911 operator.

Agreed never been in dispute.. why keep asking?

What was so urgent that Zimmerman needed to get as involved as he did?

Perhaps because he saw someone fitting the description of those who were recently involved in criminal activity in his neighborhood? As a concerned citizen wouldn't you feel an urgency? Especially if the person you saw was acting like he might be under the influence and appeared to be indicating he had a gun by reaching for his waistband?

Even if Trayvon was beating Zimmerman, we do not know what precipitated that action. Conceivably, Zimmerman could have been the aggresor and Trayvon simply got the best of him.

Even IF???? seriously... is there ANY question there was a physical altercation in your mind? Then you go on to admit Trayvon got the best of him.... gotta do better on that argument.

For someone who was beaten almost senseless, why didn't Zimmerman go to the hospital and why did he seem unhurt or unfazed in the video of him in the lockup.

Don't have that answer... have to ask his DR he saw the next day. ER runs over 500 a visit DR is maybe 100... money could be an issue for a college student.

Zimmerman has a history of overzealousness and violence.

HAD a history... Trayvon was not the angel his parents portrayed either... they both had potential

The initial investigator did not believe Zimmerman. He got the first story from Zimmerman and felt it was not true.

You have evidence of that? Yes the initial investigator OPENED a case with a specific label. there is no criminal code to investigate Self Defense.

Young black males are targeted and profiled wiht a higher degree of frequency than any other demographic group.

Care to cite a source or just urban legend? I'll grant you that Black males disproportionately represent criminals as a function of population. Strangely Black males represent nearly half of all homicides yet are only 13% of the population as a whole. They are also killled by other Black males 94% of the time so it only makes sense that they are "profiled" as they in fact REPRESENT/commit crime disproportionately.

Explain why if in fact young black males were committing crimes in the area that they should not be suspect please.

The Sanford Police essentially exonerated Zimmerman at the scene.

How so? They took him for questioning. They canvased the neighborhood and took witness statements of those they could find. EMS provided medical attention to George and declared they were unable to rescue Trayvon. They made note of Georges outburst that he in fact shot Trayvon. What did they do or not do to exonerate George at the scene?

Trayvon's body laid in the Medical Examiner's office for three days before the parents could locate him.

Quit repeating the rumor/lie. Tracy Martin identified his son Trayvon the next day from photographs shortly after reporting his son missing. A police officer was dispatched to confirm in person with Tracy that the missing person was in fact the Trayvon Martin they had at the morgue. That Trayvon was in line for an autopsy and it took three days is not unusual. He wasn't Michael Jackson or some celeb until after this event.

Trayvon is not here to speak for himself.

Again why repeat the obvious?

There is something wrong when a kid goes out to the 7-11 and is killed on the way home.

Tragically things like that happen EVERY DAY/NIGHT. The majority of the time it is a Black killing a Black or a White killing a White. The MAJORITY of homicides are males between the ages of 14 and 24. Sadly Trayvon getting shot is nothing unusual in the larger scheme of things.

I am glad to see there is at least one level head on here regarding riots. I'm not so sure about the "reverends" History has a way of repeating itself... Rally the people ... stir things up a bit... leave just before it all hits the fan. They are currently 0 for 2 and in the batters box waiting for the next pitch.

The RARE instant where a Black is killed by a NON Black is now national news but when a Black attacks and leaves for dead a White it barely makes the local papers and they don't DARE mention race for FEAR of Black retaliation. trust_verify #3.79

it's not as if whenever whites attack blacks it's filling media news cycles. the beating of an african american homeless man in sanford was only made public after trayvon killed. last year there was a bomb planted on the mlk parade route that would have injuried and killed a great number of people. i don't need to tell you the race of the planter but it was barely a bleep on the radar.

t_v why would informing the public that a black assaulted white a individual inflame africa americans into retaliation? just stop it. be honest, with all the skinheads and white militia the ones retaliating would more than likely be some of these white groups. there was an article seeded on newsvine that some white racist group was found to be planning a race war.

I thought we had resolved that George was not white

he is half white and half hispanic which is not a race. haven't you seen documents that read white (non-hispanic) which i guess makes gzim white hispanic since his father is white.

The problem with ANY law seems to be application. For some reason though, it only makes news when someone cries racial bias.

maybe because many bad laws affect minorities disproportionately. a young black woman with a newborn, a masters degree and no criminal record was just sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing over the head of her abusive boyfriend. her attempt to use the syg law was rejected. as a result, a congresswoman is launching an investigation into records to determine whether the law is applied fairly.

Let me guess it's that equal but special treatment thing again.

equal but special treatment? a woman with an untarnished record gets 20 years for killing or injuring no one. gzim follows a unarmed teen and when gzim reaches into his coat for his cell phone (allegedly) the young teen becomes alarmed and clocks him. gzim shots and kills him under the premise he was standing his ground. had he stayed in his truck he would've had no ground to stand. even so, he was released and remained free until there is an outcry for justice. there's your "special treatment".

you exposed your bias and callousness toward trayvon by suggesting the shooting was his fault because "he picked a fight with someone with a gun". i could just as easily and wrongheadedly push blame onto the virginia beating victims for getting out of their car to confront the kid who hit the car with a rock.

i can see wrong is wrong no matter the color of the attackers skin and this includes zimmerman.

irene46

it's not as if whenever whites attack blacks it's filling media news cycles. the beating of an african american homeless man in sanford was only made public after trayvon killed

Thats irony. George Zimmerman ADVOCATED for that individual actually We still would not have heard about that on a NATIONAL basis if George had not been the one sending letters and placing posters on that victims behalf. If I recall the details it turns out that the perpetrator in that incident was the son of one of the officers.

t_v why would informing the public that a black assaulted white a individual inflame africa americans into retaliation?

Why report EITHER as NATIONAL news? Or are you saying the media should only report events that will inflame Blacks? (sticking with the term Blacks as it is the current PC term and actually covers ALL Blacks rather than just those with linage from Africa... heard that lecture on another thread)

he is half white and half hispanic which is not a race. haven't you seen documents that read white (non-hispanic) which i guess makes gzim white hispanic since his father is white.

neither is White or African American if you want to get scientific about it. By recent reports George is hienze 57. His Great grand parents on his mothers side are actually Negroid and somewhere in there Peruvian (would that be Portuguese? or Native American) and his father appears to be Caucasian (German heritage) What does that make Obama? Or are we using the single drop rule?

maybe because many bad laws affect minorities disproportionately. a young black woman with a newborn, a masters degree and no criminal record was just sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing over the head of her abusive boyfriend. her attempt to use the syg law was rejected. as a result, a congresswoman is launching an investigation into records to determine whether the law is applied fairly.

That minorities break the law disproportionately might explain things. Please get the facts right on that other case.

The abuser was/is her husband. She retreated before retrieving a gun and then returned to start a new confrontation... she could have waited in the garage in safety. Thus syg did not apply. The sentence was dictated by the legislature under 10-20-life. She was committing an assault with a gun, which mandates 10 years, she fired the gun which mandates 20 years, had she injured or killed someone she would have gotten 25 to life. She was offered a plea, which carried a mandatory 3 year sentence. That she was a mother of two children doesn't mean she is exempt from the law. Should the father have been exempt simply because he fathered the children?

equal but special treatment? a woman with an untarnished record gets 20 years for killing or injuring no one. gzim follows a unarmed teen and when gzim reaches into his coat for his cell phone (allegedly) the young teen becomes alarmed and clocks him. gzim shots and kills him under the premise he was standing his ground. had he stayed in his truck he would've had no ground to stand. even so, he was released and remained free until there is an outcry for justice. there's your "special treatment".

similar but different events and different laws apply. GZ has barely started down the courts. Marrisa Alexander had her day in court... starting a year ago I believe. What is ironic is Cory is the prosecutor in both cases. Does that make your hero or zero? Presuming George is convicted he will be doing 25 to life based on the same 10-20-life that MA was sentenced under. No special treatment there... but you want MA to be treated special under the same law why/how? How upset will you be if Cory offers George a plea for 3 - 5 years? Same deal she offered MA.

you exposed your bias and callousness toward trayvon by suggesting the shooting was his fault because "he picked a fight with someone with a gun". i could just as easily and wrongheadedly push blame onto the virginia beating victims for getting out of their car to confront the kid who hit the car with a rock.

bias and callous because I suggested that he bears some responsibility for starting fist fight? I admit, someone bringing fists to a gun fight is STUPID in my opinion. Starting ANY fight when safety is just a short distance away is STUPID.

As to the VA incident... I never said it was SMART to get out of the vehicle. My reference was that a mob attacked people and it didn't make the news, even locally. Care to tell us how the guy in his vehicle on a PUBLIC street getting car jacked was somehow his fault? Or why it was not newsworthy in light of the proximity to this incident or why the "reverends" chose to ignore it. For that matter why did the "reverends" not come to bat for MA? Instead Corine Brown waited until AFTER sentencing, which everyone KNEW what the sentence would be, to come SCREAMING into Cory's face not allowing her to get a polite word in edgewise. Another example of trying a case in the media.

i can see wrong is wrong no matter the color of the attackers skin and this includes zimmerman.

Can you? You are wanting GZ put away for life yet feel that the same law that would put him away isn't fair for MA.

Its funny... when I first read the GZ reports I was all for sending him away.. until I got the facts we now know... he needs his day in court with all the evidence. When I first read the MA case I was in her corner... until again the FACTS came out. She had her day in court and then some. She was offered a deal and turned it down. She was to be sentenced and it was put off because of the GZ case. She is now sentenced. Now here is one other factor, which happens to be on topic as this thread is under George raising money for his defense.. From what I can tell MA had a public defender. George will apparently have a paid lawyer. Sad to say, justice has come down to the best defense money can buy.

food for thought... Do you think Marissa Alexander would have made national news if not for GZ? Do you think the homeless mans beating would have made national news if not for GZ? My guess is no to both. At best a brief late night news story as filler on the weekend. Reality is GZ should have been in that same category. The media made it NEWS by making it about race. Call me cold and callous... This story was no more special than the 9000+ other shootings that happen each year, or the 16000+ total homicides annually. Each in its own right is usually SAD but other than for those directly involved each event is routine, not special.

trust_verify:

So after you've licked the last wounds I inflicted, you're back on here acting tough again in my absence? Engaging females in your self-depreciating "pissing contests"?

Well, I'll be back later tonight, and we'll see who can piss the furthest -you or me.

Promise not to put me on ignore this time? Or run away again with your tail between your legs?

I'll see you tonight.

trust_verify:

Trayvon made an error by getting into a fight with someone, who happened to have a gun.

See your anti-Black racism as usual? You were not even there yet have decided the fight is Trayvon's error, without a shred of evidence; you've automatically sided against the kid. More of that special treatment Black people get from you.

You have ZERO proof what was said on her call

Now you know that is another of your out-right lies -the girl herself is the earwitness to what was said, in a court of law the witness is the "proof"; so why in the hell would you say otherwise knowing it's a lie? Oh, I forgot, she's Black, eh? -so she too gets the special treatment you claim us Black folks get?

There is no recording of WHAT she and Trayvon spoke about ... only what her she claims was said.

Well that's not going to help Zimmie -all it means is Zimmie has no tape to contradict her, the prosecution's got her, since her statement fits the rest of the facts she will be taken for her word unopposed. Zimmie is the one who needs a tape. Sorry he has not a single one -he doesn't even have a witness to do him more good than bad.

Had trayvon simply kept walking he would have arrived where he and his father were visiting, a mere 70 yards...

So Trayvon gets more special treatment -now you've decided without a shred of proof that Trayvon just stopped walking? -when there's no proof Zimmerman didn't step in front of him and stop him from walking? Since Zimmerman didn't want the "as$hole" to "get away" (and had even got out of his truck and proceeded on foot to help insure it)-that is the most likely and common sense scenario, and it fits every piece of the known evidence, just like a puzzle. Zimmie's steps are a roadmap -it even fits with what the girl on the phone said.

only to find the house empty as they were apparently out for the evening.

Is that why Zimmie killed Trayvon? -why mention that then? -oh! I forgot! a free swipe at Black people -they must be accused of bad parenting even though it's not relevant to the case. More special treatment Black folks get from you.

You presume a lot of mind reading powers are available for non Blacks

I don't know about these "non Blacks" you take care to mention, but it certainly applies to you -why, you've read George's mind and determined every unsubstantiated thing he said against Trayvon is true; you swear to it all -from acting suspicious, walking toward me, there's something wrong with him, his hand is in his waistband, he's on drugs or something, I was on the way back to the truck, he jumped me, punched me in the nose, dropped me on the sidewalk, was banging my head on the pavement, was reaching for my gun, said I was going to die tonight, that's why/when I shot him, blah, blah, blah -you were not there but testified to all of it for George. So damn right -you're George's mind reader alright -plus you must have a crystal ball too. How else can you know everything George said is true?

I know what my state of mind would be if someone were beating on my head...I NEED to terminate this threat by any and all means necessary.

Beating on your head? Hell no, that's not what Zimmie and you said -you all said Zimmie shot him to stop his head from getting banged into the sidewalk. Now whose changed the story again, you or Zimmie. Dosen't really matter because you both are proven liars against Trayvon. It's that special treatment you said Black folks get.

You are a pathetic, lying racist. KKKlanmen are better than you -they have less lies and more honor -and they don't have much. But they've got a whole lot more than you.

trust_verify:

Don't you think you are ignoring George's credibility problem? Why would you think George is going to have any credibility in the courtroom? Whose going to believe him when he tells his stories?

whether true or not the story goes trayvon found the gun in georges waistband and attempted to get it out

That's George's second story for having to shoot Trayvon-first came the infamously discredited headbanging on the sidewalk reason for shooting -every witness, even the one you think is friendly to George, proves the fight was in the grass away from the sidewalk when the gun went bang.

Then the jury will also hear him telling the Martins a lie under oath on the witness stand, "I did not know how old he was, I thought he was a little younger than I am."

That's funny because we all know he's on tape correctly identifiying the kid as being in his "late teens" to the dispatcher. Yet under oath he thought the kid was a little younger than he was, 28.

With lies like that under oath why do you think George's word is still worth your giving him credibility?

Mrperryrice:

Our friend trustverify has resorted to the age old syllogism when it comes to blacks:

• Some blacks are criminals.
• Trayvon is black.
• Trayvon is a criminal.

Even a novice in the study of metaphysics can readily identify the fallacy here. Yet, it is repeated over and over. Our friend has essentially confirmed that Trayvon was proifiled, and according to him, justifiably.

But, here is the rub. He was not. Nothing Zimmerman surmised about Trayvon was true. Zimmerman even went to the trouble of suggesting that Trayvon might be armed, thus raising the anticipation level of the police. Of course, Zimmerman never mentioned that he was armed.

It is always interesting to me how some are quick to lump all blacks in a certain category and measure them by the least of them. Yet, if blacks suggest a general preference fro racism among whites, they want to be seen as individuals. Amazing.

What astounds me even more is our friend's reluctance to understand why Trayvon's parents and others would have numerous questions in this case. His casual dismissal of the police department's callous approach to the identification of Trayvon's body in person is a case in point.

This whole case smacks of times gone by, the good old days of blacks knowing their place. This young black male did not belong in that gated community. Therefore, conducting himself like a typical 17 year old made him a threat and a criminal. Notice our friend's attempt to equate Zimmerman's rather disturbing past with the more juvenile antics of Trayvon. Incredible.

Ther reality is that even if you take race out of the equation, this case still offends the olfactory senses. There are just too many questions that need answering. If an average citizen can find them, I cannot believe that professional law enforcement officers could not find them.

Zimmerman has changed his story repeatedly. Each time adding an element that could support his claim of self-defense. I have to think that a competent prosecutor would be able to easily drive holes in Zimmerman's story.

Al-2739446

Mrperryrice:

Our friend trustverify has resorted to the age old syllogism when it comes to blacks:

You have fallen to the age old race card.

As for mrperryrice.... he is here to play games not debate the facts. It is people like him that encourage Whites to become racist. Thus he is on ignore and won't be getting any form of response. Even this little tidbit will make him pronounce how all powerful he is that he got me to respond.

Zimmerman has changed his story repeatedly. Each time adding an element that could support his claim of self-defense. I have to think that a competent prosecutor would be able to easily drive holes in Zimmerman's story.

Just WHICH story are you speaking of? I was not aware that he had made ANY public statement and NONE of his interview has been released to the best of my knowledge... Mind providing a link to any of GEORGE making a statement in public or the official interview transcripts? Or does the "story changing" just fit your view?

Typical non response. You pretend you want to discuss the FACTS and when countered with FACTS you fall back to the name calling and race card. Have you got anything to say or are you another jailhouse lawyer like mr rice?

Trust-Verify:

Race is not a card, it is a subjective reality created by those who wanted to be superior to someone else based on an accident of birth which determines skin color. I did not create racism in this country. It has been here since its inception. To suggest that it does not exist today is disengenuous on your part.

Do I think that race could have played a role here. No doubt. If Trayvon had been white, I guarantee you that there would have been no calls to the police or following. Trayvon was profiled and all you have to do is listen to Zimmerman's erroneous conclusions as he describes him on the 911 call. Zimmerman makes a lot of assumptions simply based on his appearance which includes his skin color. Yes, the 911 operator does ask Zimmerman the race of the suspect, but if you listen further, Zimmerman volunteers again, rather gratuitously I think, that he is a black male. Yes, allegedly there had been other black males involved in burglarizing homes in the area, but that did not automatically mean that Trayvon was one of them, or had criminal intent, unless you are predisposed to prejudgement.

Additionally, it is somewhat contradictory for you to support Zimmerman'sa rationale fot targeting Trayvon based on the alleged racisl history of those who had burglarize homes in the area before while at the same time denying the reality of racial profiling in this country and reducing the recognition of that to "playing the race card".

As an aside, there is no "race card." Race is a fact in this country and always has been. Race is a social construct and a political entity. It has much to do with the distribution of resources and power. To equate it to a simple hyperbolic conspiratorial plot to use racism as an reason for all manner of atrocity is to diminish the significance of one of the longest standing institutions in this country. Those who have not experienced the power of racism can never understand how potent it can be.

As to Zimmerman's changing stories, yes, he did.

Originally, we were told that Trayvon attacked Zimmerman as he was entering his truck. Then we find out that Trayvon's body was 100ft from Zimmerman's truck. Suddenly, Zimmerman's tale is that he was headed back to his truck when Trayvon confronted him.

Originally, Zimmerman told the 911 operator that Trayvon looked like a teenager. Then he says on the stand that he thought Trayvon was about his age.

Originally, we heard nothing about a struggle for the gun. Then we are told that Trayvon tried to get his gun.

Originally, we wer told that Zimmerman was virtually indigent. then we are told that he has an internet account with funds. Even if he didn't know how much was in that account, he could have advised the judge of its existence and his lawyer could have gotten the details.

Is that enough? All of this has been reported in th media. By the way, what did I say that was name calling?

Additionally, it is somewhat contradictory for you to support Zimmerman'sa rationale fot targeting Trayvon based on the alleged racisl history of those who had burglarize homes in the area before while at the same time denying the reality of racial profiling in this country and reducing the recognition of that to "playing the race card".

See there is the confusing FACTS with being racist. The fact IS that those who had been caught committing crimes were in FACT black. Repeatedly Black males had been caught either in the act or in possession immediately after the crimes. I guess it would be racist to presume that it was Blacks committing crime in say Harlem? Had it been White males caught doing crimes then the natural suspects would be White males. Just like when there is a rape, we don't go around suspecting up WOMEN.

Originally, we wer told that Zimmerman was virtually indigent. then we are told that he has an internet account with funds. Even if he didn't know how much was in that account, he could have advised the judge of its existence and his lawyer could have gotten the details.

And has the fact changed that George has little in the way of assets, outside of that account? The internet account was for donations. We may never know ALL the details on that paypal account. We do know this much.. George did not have access for many days while in jail. We do not know WHEN money was deposited. I for one declined to donate prior to his arrest. There was NO directive as to what would happen to those funds if he was never arrested. I am sure MANY people were like me and withheld donations until after his arrest. He does not have control of that account currently and 200,000 won't go very far once the trial starts. I am sure that some of that money will be directed to pay for his protection, housing and food prior to trial. The lawyer is already eying collecting from the fund as well and may create a new way to donate, if he hasn't already, before trial.

Originally, we heard nothing about a struggle for the gun. Then we are told that Trayvon tried to get his gun.

My question on that goes back to what have we actually heard from George? Again I've seen second/third hand reports but not seen/heard from his lips or a written statement from that night.

I apologize for taking "Even a novice in the study of metaphysics can readily identify the fallacy here. Yet, it is repeated over and over. Our friend..." as name calling. YOUR buddy Mr rice has a habit of using terms like that implying others are morons.. and later does use those terms.

Race is not a card, it is a subjective reality created by those who wanted to be superior to someone else based on an accident of birth which determines skin color. I did not create racism in this country. It has been here since its inception. To suggest that it does not exist today is disengenuous on your part.

I am not denying that racism does exist. However if there is a pattern to crime and it FITS a particular PROFILE then it is a FACT and not racist. To use your words, it is disingenuous on your part to claim is is racist when in fact it is a fact. Much like if we read that someone is arrested for coke vs crack it fits the profile that the first is most likely white and the latter is black. While it may not be accurate 100% of the time it is highly likely to be 90% of the time.

My question on that goes back to what have we actually heard from George? Again I've seen second/third hand reports but not seen/heard from his lips or a written statement from that night. trust_verify 3.97

amusing how you bring up second/third when geozim's words work against him. tell me what was it but "second and third hand reports" that convinced you to donate monies after his arrest. if you weren't influenced by these stories from geo's relatives and friends who had spoken to geo what impressed you to donate? did you feel the need to come to his financial rescue simply because he's accused of killing a black teen?

did you feel the need to come to his financial rescue simply because he's accused of killing a black teen?

Had I felt that, I would have donated when he first opened the account. But AGAIN you make this about RACE and accuse ANYONE who does not agree with you of being RACIST. EVER look in the mirror? If you SEE racism everywhere you look perhaps YOUR view is racist?

amusing how you bring up second/third when geozim's words work against him. tell me what was it but "second and third hand reports"

Why am I not surprised by your non responsive answer?

that convinced you to donate monies after his arrest. if you weren't influenced by these stories from geo's relatives and friends who had spoken to geo what impressed you to donate?

Actually I was influenced by seeing someone apparently being railroaded by the media and the available facts. did you donate to the Martins fund? In the end George may be found guilty. So long as he gets a fair trial I can live with that... That WILL TAKE money.

So again I ask what statements have you seen directly from George either in a public forum, TV, radio. Have you found a posting, official police release of records? Perhaps a court record?

Trust-verify:

You obviously feel that Zimmerman was justified in assuming that Trayvon might be a criminal because blacks had been burglarizing homes in the area. My question would be when those blacks were confronted or caught, were they in the process of committing a crime, or had completed a criminal act? If so, it would make perfect sense to identify them as criminals.

This is the part that I do not understand about Zimmerman's conclusions. THey were based solely on something other than criminal behavior. Not one of his descriptors was valid. They were all suppositions and were absolutely void of proof of criminal intent.

So, here is what Zimmerman could have said to the 911 operator."Look, there have been a number of burglaries in the area and I see someone walking through the complex whom I do not recognize. COuld you send someone over to check him out."

That would have been nonjudgemental. It would have indicated no predisposition on Zimmerman's part to portray Trayvon as guilty on general principles. That is why I think race comes inot play. Yes, the burglars in the community had been black. But, again, from what I have read it sounds like they were all involved in the commission of a crime or had just completed one. Trayvon was neither committing a crime, nor had he just completed one.

So, Zimmerman says that he was reaching in his pants. Is that a crimional act? He was looking around. Is that a criminal act. He looked like he might be on drugs. Is Zimmerman a doctor? No, there is something else that makes him suspicious.

Here is why I think the appearance thing is a crock. My son was in the fourth grade and was with my wife when she went ot the drugstore. She went in and left him in the car. When she got out, she locked the car and the passive alarm was set. My son apparently moved in the car and the alrm went off. Within moments, two police cars pulled up. Now, my son is sitting there on the paasenger side of the car in a catholic school uniform(shirt and tie), with his school books in his lap doing his homework, He told the police that his mom was inside the store. In spite of all of the above, he was questioned at length. If appearance is so important, why wasn't he given the benefit of the doubt? Guess.

Al-2739446

Trust-verify:

You obviously feel that Zimmerman was justified in assuming that Trayvon might be a criminal because blacks had been burglarizing homes in the area. My question would be when those blacks were confronted or caught, were they in the process of committing a crime, or had completed a criminal act? If so, it would make perfect sense to identify them as criminals.

Fair question. Yes. In every instance where someone was caught they were either in the act or caught immediately after in possession with "the goods" Those caught were 14 -22 years of age. Black male.

This is the part that I do not understand about Zimmerman's conclusions. THey were based solely on something other than criminal behavior. Not one of his descriptors was valid. They were all suppositions and were absolutely void of proof of criminal intent.

So, here is what Zimmerman could have said to the 911 operator."Look, there have been a number of burglaries in the area and I see someone walking through the complex whom I do not recognize. COuld you send someone over to check him out."

That is how his conversation started. http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/911-calls-paint-picture-of-chaos-after-florida-teen-is-shot/

7:09 p.m. ET

Dispatcher: "Do you need police, fire or medical?"

Zimmerman: "We had some break-ins in our neighborhood ... and there is a real suspicious guy. ... This guy looks like he's up to no good, he's on drugs or something. It's raining, and he's walking around looking about. "

The on drugs or something may have been a reach.. we weren't there... Trayvon was on the phone and may have been an animated talker... George probably would not have seen the ear buds, in the dark and rain

Trayvon was neither committing a crime, nor had he just completed one.

We no that now... We don't know what Trayvon was doing or what George thought he saw... It was raining... Trayvon may have been ducking in the eves of the buildings and it may have looked like he was looking in the windows.. none of us except George knows that.. and perhaps is described in his police questioning.

So, Zimmerman says that he was reaching in his pants. Is that a crimional act? He was looking around. Is that a criminal act. He looked like he might be on drugs. Is Zimmerman a doctor? No, there is something else that makes him suspicious.

The reaching for pants was not until they had made eye contact and Trayvon was approaching George... on his way to get past we know now. Remember George had his gun in his waistband... Reaching for waistband could be as innocent as his droop drawers were getting too low or could be an implied threat "I have a gun don't mess with me". Context matters. See my comment on animated talker about the drugs.. in the rain.. in the dark... per DeeDee Trayvon was aware of George and may have been nervous, anxious, agitated, wanting to prove something to her... We don't know Trayvons mindset really.

Here is why I think the appearance thing is a crock. My son was in the fourth grade and was with my wife when she went ot the drugstore. She went in and left him in the car. When she got out, she locked the car and the passive alarm was set. My son apparently moved in the car and the alrm went off. Within moments, two police cars pulled up. Now, my son is sitting there on the paasenger side of the car in a catholic school uniform(shirt and tie), with his school books in his lap doing his homework, He told the police that his mom was inside the store. In spite of all of the above, he was questioned at length. If appearance is so important, why wasn't he given the benefit of the doubt? Guess.

My guess would be he was Black.... My other guess would be where was mom when he was questioned AT LENGTH. Many states have a law against leaving a minor unattended in a vehicle. Perhaps someone called dispatch to report a child alone in a car, why else would TWO police cars arrive?

You have your view based on life experience. Did you or your wife leave your child inside the car in the near future after that incident? Probably not. George's recent experience was break-ins. We also don't know the response times of police during his prior calls.

Just MY experience. I called in to report a minor threatening to shoot me. I received this message from kids in the neighborhood. It took police two hours to respond. A few days later the same punk threw a quart beer bottle over the fence and it went through the plate glass window of my neighbor almost hitting his 4 year old son and 11 year old daughter. An hour and 45 minutes after the call the police arrived. Two weeks later someone called in that my niece may have SEEN who was kicking a cat... 10 minutes 3 patrol cars 2 officers each, a supervisor command car with lights and sirens. So I now know if I need immediate response I should call in animal abuse when living in CA... which I no longer do. Oh and that was in a gated community as well.

EVERYONE acts based on their live experience... the more recent the more affected.

I see more evidence is leaking out, per another story here and elsewhere. My view of the actual shooting may change as there seems to be a few conflicts between what George and the EYE witnesses state and what the coroner is reporting... really wish we knew what "intermediate range" means.

My guess would be he was Black.... My other guess would be where was mom when he was questioned AT LENGTH. Many states have a law against leaving a minor unattended in a vehicle. Perhaps someone called dispatch to report a child alone in a car, why else would TWO police cars arrive?

Yes, he was black. His mother was in the drugstore. There are no laws against leaving a fourth grader in the car in this state. The police indicated that they were there because of the car alarm. If they had been concerned about my son's welfare, they would have gone in and found his mom. They did not. They left before she came out of teh drugstore.

But, you miss my point. If appearance is so important, why does it not accrue to a young black male when the indicators are positive. Get it?

As to the new evidence, I believe that it all raises more questions.

As to police response times, they are a problem in many areas. Volume of calls, reduced manpower and whatever triage process they use to evaluate the seriousness of calls all can contribute to delays. This is not an excuse, but certainly a reason. We all feel that our particular situations deserve immediate attention. However, I cannot understand a faster reponse to an animal abuse complaint than for a human complaint.

By the way, I cna cewrtainly understand how what is described above makes people feel that they should be in a position ot protect themselves if necessary. The stark reality is that usually by the time the police get there, the deeds have been done. I have never understood that. Someone is shot and killed, and the killer is long gone. Yet thirty patrol cars are on the scene with lights flashing and sirens wailing.

By the way, I cna cewrtainly understand how what is described above makes people feel that they should be in a position ot protect themselves if necessary. The stark reality is that usually by the time the police get there, the deeds have been done. I have never understood that. Someone is shot and killed, and the killer is long gone. Yet thirty patrol cars are on the scene with lights flashing and sirens wailing.

I think at the end of the day we are basically on the same page on many things.. just not George. Part of my "frustration" ( for lack of a better word) of hearing how Blacks get treated or lack of response is I've been down the road with the same issues. Never been cuffed my self fortunately. I have had the police show up at my door and learned the "right" way to respond. Other than the cat incident they've only shown up once with lights running other than traffic stops. Often they just have their heads up their collective.....

I cannot understand a faster reponse to an animal abuse complaint than for a human complaint.

I never really did understand what that was all about myself. OK it's California??? Perhaps they recognized my address, which is interesting as my niece was only visiting for a few months and did not have my last name. May be it was shift change at Disneyland... it was just down the street? Perhaps they thought it was a Disney cat getting kicked?

I've no clue why they would not look for the mother in your situation. I wasn't there. I don't know what your son told them. I do my best to NOT know the police officially but rarely have issues on a personable level.

Beth... please post your source that the NRA contributed ANYTHING to his defense fund. If none are available or prove-able, you have libeled the organization. Do YOU have funds to defend yourself against a libel law suit?

XDm9mm - I could not agree with you more. PS - NRA member and very proud!

"George Zimmerman is the NRA"

Why wouldn't the NRA help their poster child?

So am I, but I wouldn't run and Hide if I shot someone... especially if I really knew I was defending my self. That's a big problem with this Coward, if you know you are innocent why not speak out?

"Mom":

but I wouldn't run and Hide if I shot someone... especially if I really knew I was defending my self.

You might if there was a lynch mob after your blood. Zimmerman wasn't hiding from the authorities. He was hiding from these people who want him dead. If a thousand people come at you, alone, and they all want you dead, you may be able to take some of them out; but if you're out there where they can get you, they'll get you.

Mom1010: Where have you been? Zimmerman was right there on the scene with the police. He didn't run anywhere. He did speak out. He even went to the PD that night. Did he eventually hide? OF COURSE...who wouldn't with a bunch of thugs putting a wanted dead or alive bounty on your head, tweeting what they thought was your home address? AND Zimmerman turned himself in when the indictment came down...he didn't run, he didn't hide.

Mom1010- Did you miss the story where he turned himself in when the charges were filed? He was hiding from the people who have already convicted him and put a bounty- dead or alive- on his head. Duh!!

@Mom 1010.... Zimmerman never hid from anyone. After reading other posts from you, I know your full of crap. Why not start reading the facts of this case, not spewing stupidity?

Did you miss the Story where his Attorney's didn't even know where he was? Yes he did go to the Police station and was not charged. But when the investigation started ... why have your Daddy talk for you? This Coward would not open his mouth and Face anybody.

And by the way you can say that one Cowardly man wanted that kid Dead and the kid had to fight for his life.... and that kid was all alone no match for a man with a weapon....and at that time Zimmerman was the Judge and Jury.......so please stop! The Jury or Judge will decide this, and like I said.. since he has money you can't say that he didn't get a fair trial if he is found Guilty.

Mom is right. Zimmerman went into hiding and sent his daddy (hiding behind a screen like he was in the witness protection program when all you have to do is google his name and there is his pic), joe oliver and his brother all over the air waves to tell HIS story about 6 different versions of his story I might add. Funny though, he claimed he was in hiding because he was being threatened yet his current attorney says they haven't got any threats since he took the case. Imagine that.

The NRA protects constitutional rights just like the ACLU. Please don't villainize organizations for the actions of their extremist supporters. That is the equivalent of faulting the American people for the actions of their government! I don’t know about you, but I certainly don’t like being lumped in with politicians willing to sell their souls and the souls of the American people all in the name of the almighty dollar.

That being said... I do believe that anyone that kills someone in "self-defense" should have to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that their life was in danger.

If FL acquits this guy it will set a precedent that anyone can start a fight with the knowledge that if things don't go there way they can just whip out their piece and kill their opponent with no legal repercussion.

Mom 1010
So am I, but I wouldn't run and Hide if I shot someone... especially if I really knew I was defending my self. That's a big problem with this Coward, if you know you are innocent why not speak out?

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law.

Please learn to spell PONY. Illiterate liberals.

It is the state that holds that burden of proof. The state needs to prove that Zimmerman shot Treyvon in cold blood. Zimmerman has no burden of proof and that's how its done here in the us of a. We tried it the other way around and finally realized that money could corrupt a system where theaccused has the burden of proof. That's why we decided to go it alone and kick out England, perhaps our greatest and most correct foreign policy move ever.

Beth, I don't belong to the NRA, but I do belong among the contributors to Zimmerman who, I believe was railroaded by the racist hate mongers on the left.

Hey lonereb, I enjoy reading your posts normally, and usually agree with pretty much everything you say. Keep it real with no attacks ok your better than that!! (RE: post #4.13)

Railroaded by the liberals. let's see what is wrong with that thinking. He did what he did and then was let go when even a policeman would have been checked out more fully. They would have been on leave with their gun removed. Here is what appeared to happen. He was brought in and his JUDGE father was called and he was let go. Like at least 2 other times before. And he is not a liberal judge? What struck me as funny was the fact that they said these people had no money. Judges make good money. Sorry. I would like to know the value of Zimmermans house first of all.And the fathers. They tried hard to make people think that they couldn't scrape up $15,000 for bail. I heard that statement on the news. And I thought oh come on. Most people could do that easily if they had to. Credit cards, loans etc. I thought they are just trying to make people think they have no money. And then when the $200,000 info came up it is like. Right. But they didn't have access to it right? Well $5,000 was used to pay the $15,000 and the lawyer admitted when he found out about it with a FEW MINUTES the check was forwarded to him. And remember the web site that was started? The judge had gone to the bank with his lawyers. How many poor people have some lawyer friends that will just go set up a website for their son which didn't go anywhere? We are not dumb and stupid. AT least some of us. Poor people who have no money don't live that way. It is just another attempt to persuade some unfortunates who will believe anything to send money. And how does one who is poor spend $54,000 in less than a week? That is reality.Or they knew full well they had it and was living off of it. Pretty well in fact. And how did his friend afford to quit his job to go on camera to support him? Remember they are poor or at least they want you to think they are. And someone else said on tape in the 911 call he described Martin as an older teen. Caught in another lie? That is not what he said under oath. And if he had no money why wasn't he working at a real job instead of casing the gated community neighborhood. Do they have gates on poor neighborhoods in Florida? Methinks everything really doesn't fit together like it should. I have been in Florida many many times all over the state and have never seen a gated community especially a poor one. Now that I remember my niece lives in one at Port St Lucie. But her house is like a half million dollars of course.

Beth... please post your source that the NRA contributed ANYTHING to his defense fund..

The NRA contributed an unsolicited comment on the rights 'supposedly' owed to the behavior of George. They were provocateurs in legal matter which has nothing to do with their business. George has not been assisted by anyone who had dealings with his prior actions. The HOA has disavowed him, The NWA (neighborhood watch association) has disavowed his actions, many of the members of HOA - who were at the scene have not only disavowed his actions, they were un happy to have found out - after that fact, the George was "patrolling" with a concealed firearm, in strict violation to the precepts of NWA, as well as the expectations of the membership, who were certain (had assumed) he was a good guy with good intentions. Too late, they found out differently.

If George had the approval of the HOA, why are they responding to his actions with indifference and active silence. Active Silence, being the operative term for making a very loud choice to not support someone who broke the bounds of civility ... while acting in your name.

trust_verify:

you are missing your opportunity to show you don't just support suspicious black males

"suspicious black males" -who is the suspicious Black male in this Zimmerman case? And how do you know to characterize him as 'suspicious'?

That your perception..Duh

freedom, duh, that's why the word he used was "looks".

Thank you Hatr_Hurter

Stop that rhyming now. I meant it!

stop showing your affection

Anybody want a peanut?

Thank you, bohnman!

Deception by Zimmerman to his attorney about the amount in the paypal donation account?

Trayvon probably died thinking he had lost an encounter to a criminal with a gun.

Well I had a post here right before Kimberly Rogers #7 yet it's magically disappeared!!Moderators What's up with that??????? I'll try again.

Quote from Michelle williams, Chairman New Black Panther Party

"Let me tell you, the things about to happen, to these honkeys, these pigs, these pink people, these-people. It has been long overdue... My price right now this evening..is gonna be thebounty, the arrest dead or alive, for George Zimmerman. You feel me? It's inme to fight, It's in me to raise up soldiers. It's in me every time my feet hit the ground in the state of Florida. These crackers-they scared".

The Reverend Jesse Lee Peterson, wrote an open letter and petition to Eric Holder. He told Holder in no uncertain terms that "The New Black Panther Party has been emboldened by the departments lack of action and said the group, "must be stopped now before their incitement to violence and bloodshed becomes a tragic reality in Florida and across this nation".

Kimberly Rogers...Where is Holders action against these monsters????

Who are feeding..oops funding these, these monsters?? They keep saying Zimmerman is white, yet how many hispanics think he is white?? What about this just coming out that he does have African American in his heritage??? Why do people continue to make this WHITE VS. BLACK?? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!

Martin died thinking he chose the wrong man to try to beat to death. If only he hadn't had a gun, the ***** would just be a splat on the pavement.