The voice screaming for help was Trayvon Martin's Anna. Zimmerman's was ruled out. He lied when he said it was him screaming for help and there is no reason to believe anything else he said. Whatever happened between them, Zimmerman was in control at the end with Martin screaming for help, then he shot him. Zimmerman stalked this kid for no reason, then murdered him. He is deserving of intense hatred.

I am just replying to you to let you know that I will not argue with you while you are trying to tell me that your hate is justified. I have probably read and heard the same things you did, and I have already explain what I thought happened times and times again. Either way neither of us is 100% of anything at the moment, no matter how convinced we may be one way or the other. So believe whatever you wish leroy, and I don't hate you either.

Why WOULD you hate me? You don't even know me. As far as that goes, I didn't even say that I hated Zimmerman, just that he is deserving of hatred. So why do you talk about my "hate?" You can have whatever opinion you want about what happened as long as it is not based on things that Zimmerman SAID happened. This would be unfait to Martin because Martin can't say anything, he's DEAD. It sure seems to me that Zimmerman was in control at the end with Martin screaming for help right up until he was shot; and if this is shown at the trial, it will not matter WHAT happened before that.

I can possibly agree about a guy looking like a deer caught in headlights, but it also speaks to his fears that he saw someone walking down a street with a hoodie, ice tea and a bag of skittles as threatening too. This outrage is about a law, lobbied by ALEC and signed into law by Jeb Bush, which allows people to use deadly force if they feel threatened. Everyone of us should really feel threatened by this law. What kind of society do we want to live in where citizen's arm themselves, which several States have conceal carry. I don't want to go into a McDonald's with my children and worry that the man or woman next to me is so afraid of the world that they feel compelled to carry a firearm.

As far as George Zimmerman, it seems the man thought he was in the wild west. He had a habit of calling the police on people, had been in trouble before in a fight with a police officer, was told to stand down when he called about Martin, and was never suppose to carry a gun as a neighborhood watch person. Martin was just walking to his home in an unfamiliar location where every condo pretty much looked the same. He was afraid as he told his girlfriend that some guy was following him.

I can't understand people who want to vindicate Mr. Zimmerman, what he did was wrong if he would have listened to the dispatcher and waited for the Police he wouldn't be in this predicament and would be living his fantasy life as a cop. I heard that child screaming for his life, help me! Help me! so all you lovers of guns, conceal and carry, stand your ground you better think twice or next time it maybe another Zimmerman who thinks your child is up to no good!

@leroybrown: "The voice screaming for help was Trayvon Martin's Anna. Zimmerman's was ruled out." -- Actually this is not true. An eye-witness saw Zimmerman on the bottom in the struggle and calling out for help. The supposed voice analysis is not credible. One "expert" did NO analysis; he just "listened" to the recordings. The other expert used used voice samples that didn't meet the minimum criteria listed on his own website and only concluded that it was "unlikely" to be Zimmerman. I'm going to believe the eye-witness who WAS there and saw and heard Zimmerman.

OhProgressive, I will not address everything you said because I just don't feel like arguing right now, and anyway my post was not about who is guilty or not, but I will say this:

"As far as George Zimmerman, it seems the man thought he was in the wild west. He had a habit of calling the police on people,"

Obviously you have not heard the comments from the neighbors, they mentioned that they all called 911 numerous times because of the recent robberies, they were all worried. I guess they all thought they were in the wild west.

leroy brown

Why WOULD you hate me?

Of course I have no reason to hate you :)

Sorry if it wasn't clear, I just meant that disagreeing and/or having different opinions is not a reason to hate each other.

InterestedObserver: You just lied through your teeth. The experts were VERY satisfied with the quality of the sound they had to work with and called it a "home run." It was NOT Zimmerman's voice calling for help, it was Martin's. This will be proven at the trial and it will also be shown that Zimmerman was in control of the situation for some time with Martin screaming for help, then he shot him. MANY things you Zimmerdummies are spewing are going to be proven wrong but none of you will have the integrity to admit you were wrong about anything.

Leroy

it was Martin's.

Did the experts STATE that it was Trayvon? Show us the report from the EXPERTS. Not what the newspaper interpreted from what the experts stated.

Uhh, were there OTHER life and death struggles going on right at that location at that very time? Who else's voice could it have been?? The voice was also identified as that of a young male but that is just the icing on the cake. It will be proven to be Martin's voice at the trial.

The "experts" stated that it was a 48% match to George. They mad NO statement about it matching Trayvon.

. It will be proven to be Martin's voice at the trial.

Presuming there is a trial the witness "john" will testify that the person in the red jacket, later identified as George, was on the bottom and yelling for help.

Lol, you lying piece of dirt. You KNOW what the results meant and that Zimmerman coiuld not have been the one screaming yet you continue to misrepresent what the results mean. This is a despicable and disgusting act on your part.

you lying piece of dirt.

ahhh leroy ran out of facts AGAIN and started with the tantrums and name calling AGAIN.

You KNOW what the results meant and that Zimmerman coiuld not have been the one screaming yet you continue to misrepresent what the results mean.

I know what results were stated. 48% match to George. NO STATEMENT on Trayvon. They deliberately left the door open and covered their professional backsides.

This is a despicable and disgusting act on your part.

Just what is despicable or disgusting? That I understand not only the scientific method but the fact they covered their backsides or that the sponsor of the test has an agenda and since they were paying the "experts" they had to choose their words wisely?

The previous 300 or so "expert" testimony of these two used different software. The current $5000 package was only released in January 2012. The "third party" company that developed the software just happens to be owned by the expert and the certifying company happens to be owned by the OTHER expert. Rather convenient.

So as a jurist we have an EYE witness that states he saw George yelling for help vs the experts stating it's 48% match to George and no test were run against Martin. The experts CANNOT state it is Trayvon if they never ran the test.

Leroy, truth_verify and I are posting the facts. You can choose not to believe them and call us names instead, but that doesn't change the truth. There is no credible evidence that the voice on recordings is Martin's and an eye-witness statement indicates that it is Zimmerman's.

So the eyewitness was close enough in the dark, in the rain to tell who was screaming and did absolutely nothing to help his neighbor?

Donna P-2692688

So the eyewitness was close enough in the dark, in the rain to tell who was screaming and did absolutely nothing to help his neighbor?

Yes that is "Johns" statement. Reality is they did the correct thing. They CALLED 9-1-1. He did not know who was involved in the fight nor why. No one has stated if he knew George... they do live on almost opposite corners of the community. All he (claims) could see was someone in a red jacket on the bottom yelling for help. Rule #1 when witnessing a fight.. don't get in the middle.. You are likely to end up being attacked by BOTH of the combatants.

We should just appoint your stupid A** to a Judicial Bench. But hold on...hold on.....I bet you jerked off as a kid, and adult, and never admitted it. GUILTY...now admit your GUILT and get down on your knees. Wow...what a brilliant mind. WE don't need a Judicial System anymore...we will just ask you for the verdict and save time and money. GET LOST!!!!

No sympathy for white victims of black road rage!

Did you check out video? Its great!

With his sidekick jessie.

They are worth more..........

The Dollar sure is going down the tubes. Send Yen.

Wrong,wrong,wrong.Zim already spent 35k by the time the attorney found out about it.His family spent 15k on bond,the other 35k was on house hold expenses-Really !! Those people who gave to his cause are really,really gullible.

No , the people who convict ANYONE, Black or White, with little REAL evidence are the gullible ones. Unless you were standing there witnessing the entire event from start to finish your opinion counts for SH*T.

Z has already spent over $45,000. That's a lot of money to spend in 3 weeks. For all anyone knows Z could be living with family for free. $5,000 went to bond. None to his attorney who took the case pro bono. There is $150,000 left according to O'Mara that he says he put in a trust account. O'Mara said the cost could be over $1 million. Not that Z would be paying $1 million. Looks like Zimmerman is the one making money off the death of Trayvon Martin. And all for himself. What difference does it make if the Martin's got donations? They didn't kill anyone. Z just forgot he had $200,000? Right.

Why don't you go away, get some real and true facts and then come back to the discussion. Then u MAY be more credible in your assertions.

Zimmerman doesn't need the money for attorney fees. O'Mara took the case pro bono. Only $5,000 was used for bond. He spent over $45,000 in 3 weeks. "O'Mara said there was about $150,000 left when he took control. The family also used the money on living expenses and on setting up somewhere secure for him to stay." (Orlando Sentinel) For all we know, Zimmerman could be living with his family for free and spending the money for whatever he wants. $200,000 is a lot of money to "forget" about. I don't have a problem with people donating to Zimmerman. It's their right to do what they want with their money. But it seems to me he is making (and spending) a lot of money off the death of Trayvon Martin.

NY Daily News: "Mark O’Mara, who is working pro bono." Miami Herald: "O’Mara, who had said he would do the case pro bono."

If O'Mara's smart he will QUIT and let the squirmy little punk PAY for his defense!

3) The court shall award reasonable attorney’s fees, court costs, compensation for loss of income, and all expenses incurred by the defendant in defense of any civil action brought by a plaintiff if the court finds that the defendant is immune from prosecution as provided in subsection (1).
History.—s. 4, ch. 2005-27.

Looks like the state will eventually be picking up the tab when George beats the charges. O'mara may be working pro bono now but will eventually submit a bill to the state and get a cut of the book and movie deals.

I wonder of the justicetm.org will be protected against a lawsuit for defamation of character? It must suck to be Tracy Martin... taking a back seat to Sabrina who is divorced from and not getting to spend any time with his fiance'. http://justicetm.org/home/sybrina_tracy/

Not to mention Casey Anthony and the Juice.

Lets not forget Reginald Denny

The bounty was wrong,and I have said that in the past.The Martin family does not condone it either.

Don't give a damn what you said in the past....any idiot would know that a bounty is wrong....Are you now speaking for the Martin Family???? As I recall, the Martin Family were some of the first to verbally convict Zimmerman. Of course they were suffering from the loss of their beloved son as you could see in their actions. But not even the Martins know exactly what transpired. Not saying that Zimmerman is innocent. But I am damned sure that I am not going to convict him verbally. Look, if he had been arrested and questioned immediately after the shooting and death of Trayvon Martin the incident may not have taken on such proportion as to involve some of the most racist attacks from both sides on this incident.

The NBP bounty was for a citizens arrest. Don't exaggerate. The $200,000 isn't for his defense. Miami Herald: "O’Mara, who had said he would do the case pro bono" NY Daily News: "Mark O’Mara, who is working pro bono." I don't have a problem with anyone donating to the Z fund. I'm sure he is very grateful for the money. Especially when his lawyer is pro bono. Wonder what he spent over $45,000 in less that 3 weeks on? Only $5,000 went to bond. O'Mara says there is $150,000 left. Z supporters repeatedly accuse the Martin's of making money off Trayvon's death. Looks like Zimmerman is the one profiting.

BK,

Look, if he had been arrested and questioned immediately after the shooting and death of Trayvon Martin the incident may not have taken on such proportion as to involve some of the most racist attacks from both sides on this incident.

That is ALL the parents were asking for! And if you have listened to the Martin's and for that matter Al Sharpton, they have continuously asked for "peaceful demonstrations" and they have denounced the new black panther bounty BS, every step of the way!

leigh987; attorney fees will be a less amount than expert fees, reenactment site video,forensic testimony, witness fees, medical experts,depositions ; a 2nd degree murder case will cost many times 200 thousand dollars.

Leigh, the pro bono is old news. O'Mara has said that with that money and with the defense fund that his firm is setting up, he does expect to get paid for his and his firm's time.

leigh987

The NBP bounty was for a citizens arrest. Don't exaggerate.

http://www.examiner.com/article/new-black-panther-party-poster-george-zimmerman-wanted-dead-or-alive

What exaggeration?

Jo-An-4354969

That is ALL the parents were asking for! And if you have listened to the Martin's and for that matter Al Sharpton, they have continuously asked for "peaceful demonstrations" and they have denounced the new black panther bounty BS, every step of the way!

Too bad they started the BS and ignited violent protets themselves by running a dishonest campaign to start with, presenting George Zimmerman as a hardened criminal, and Trayvon Martin as childlike and defenseless. How did they think people would react after that? Of course everybody was p****d, and many still are, to the point of posting death threats all over the internet.

Meanwhile people barely reacted to the crimes of Adam Croote, a 23 year old sex offender, who has raped an adult woman when he was a teenager, and recently raped and tried to kill a 10 year old girl. So far there is 6 comments on the article about that, yes you read it correctly "6" comments, compared to thousands for articles about George Zimmerman, and no death threats for him so far.

-Anna-,
I see you have stooped to the same games as other GZ lovers! Bring up some totally unrelated crime, and use it to defend GZ's crime!
If you had ever listened to the Martin's or Sharpton, you would know they have never called for violence, and repeatedly said they wanted peace! Instead you listen to far right rags (wagist) that have made it their mission to make Trayvon to be a thug. You can say you don't want to go back and forth about backgrounds all you want, it doesn't change the facts. GZ had the violent background, not Trayvon.
If you want to discuss Adam Croote, it's on another thread.

Who made the statement "We go to War"? So peaceful.

Jo-An-4354969

-Anna-,
I see you have stooped to the same games as other GZ lovers!

Jo-An I have been mentioning Daniel Adkins for quite a while now, and this case is very similar to the Zimmerman/Martin case.

And the problem with Sharpton and Jackson, is that they just don't seem to care as much when the victim of an injustice is white (again see Daniel Adkins), while Travon's parents have been dishonest about the appearance and personality of both their son, and George Zimmerman, and have run a campaign that generated more hate then I have ever seen, except maybe for dictators like Gadhafi and Mussolini. As I mentioned before even serial killers and mass murderers like Ted Bundy and Clyde Barrow didn't get near as much hate. I understand their pain of having lost a son must be intense, however they should not have tried to manipulate the public opinion the way they did, they should have been honest to start with.

And I mentioned Adam Croote, because he is a sex offender, who tried to kill a 10 year old girl, and he doesn't get even 1/100th of the hate George Zimmerman is getting right now. This is what is puzzling.

And if Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton start being fair, and show the same outrage when an injustice is committed against white people, I swear I will change my mind about them. For the time being Rev Jesse Lee Peterson is the only one of the 3 who has shown that he cares about everyone, whether they are black, white, or any other color/race. He tells it like it is.

We simply cannot have it both ways, either they support everyone who has been a victim of injustice, regardless of their race/color, or they are showing signs of racism.

Jo-An, oh and no Zimmerman didn't have a violent background. Both him and his girlfriend filed a restraining order against each other, and you might want to start wondering why he filed this restraining order against her and why it was granted, women can be violent too you know. From what I have read what he did was throw the girlfriend on a bed. Let me tell you from experience, a violent guy doesn't just throw a girl on the bed, he punches, he slaps, he kicks, etc. If she had been half purple from the hits of a violent guy (as I have been), she probably wouldn't have removed the charges against him either. If you doubt that women can also be violent just take a look at the list of murderers in the U.S.

And the other supposedly "violent" incident was him trying to help a friend, because the undercover agent had grabbed said friend, and he most probably didn't even know it was a cop. What would you do if a stranger grabbed your friend? wouldn't you try to help her/him, I know I would, so I guess that makes me a violent person too.

-Anna-

How about this? Picking up a girl and throwing her? And I also heard GZ has a juvenile record, in VA, a girl I spoke to on here said she lives there and the records were posted for a week or two, and then were removed.

George Zimmerman was fired from his job as an under-the-table security guard for “being too aggressive,” a former co-worker told the Daily News.

Zimmerman, at the center of a firestorm for shooting an unarmed black teenager a month ago, worked for two different agencies providing security to illegal house parties between 2001 and 2005, the former co-worker said.

“Usually he was just a cool guy. He liked to drink and hang with the women like the rest of us,” he said. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped.”

The source said Zimmerman, who made between $50 and $100 a night, was let go in 2005.

“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the man said. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.”

The year 2005 was a bad one for Zimmerman: he was arrested for fighting with a cop trying to arrest his friend for underage drinking, and he and his ex-fiancée took out protective orders against each other.

The former co-worker, who is no longer in touch with Zimmerman, said he was shocked to hear what happened Feb. 26 in a gated community in Sanford, Fla.

“He definitely loved being in charge. He loved the power. Still, I could never see him killing someone. Never,” he said.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-03-29/news/31256491_1_robert-zimmerman-gated-community-security-guard

-Anna-,

What about the Marissa Alexander case in Jacksonville Fl? She stood her ground in fear of her abusive husband, and fired a shot in the air, never killed anyone, but sits in jail, because she is black.

Jo-An, all those incidents you mention happened during a couple of months in 2005--seven years ago. The security guard "issue" is from one co-worker and has not been confirmed by his employer nor the supposed woman he threw. The "fighting" with a cop was nothing more than pushing the cops hands away. He has not been in trouble since then. Are you the same person now that you were when you were 21? I know I've matured a lot.

Jo-An,

Yes I saw a post about her (Marissa Alexander) and replied. Assuming she is telling the truth, I fail to see how she would deserve 20 years in prison, as I said in my other post the crazy husband is just lucky she didn't shoot him instead of the ceiling.

But why do you conclude that is has to do with her race/color? Maybe I am missing something here. The same thing happens over and over to white (and black and any other race/color) women, they get fed up with their violent husband, and they are the ones who end up in prison.

And in the case I mentioned (Daniel Adkins), Adkins was a "white-hispanic" and the guy who shot him is black, and has not been arrested nor charged.

We have to think rationally (or at least try as much as is humanly possible), and be able to tell the difference when something has to do with racism, and when it doesn't. I am conscious that there is still people who are racist, and this is true for blacks just as much as whites, but sometimes people jump to conclusions way too quickly, simply because the people involved are of difference race/color.

I will not address your other post (about Zimmerman's past) for the time being because I have not heard of it before, and I have no idea if any of it is true. And just because a girl told you someone posted his juvenile record, that doesn't make it true (eventho it could be) and doesn't mean the record wasn't a fake, but either way Trayvon Martin also had a juvenile record, so I guess that would make it even.

As I said to another person, if it turns out that he followed Trayvon Martin with bad intentions, that he is a racist, that he actually intended to start a fight and wanted to kill Trayvon Martin, then I will not blame you for hating him and calling him names. Meanwhile we still don't know the truth, and as usual we are back to case A, i.e. neither of us knows for sure that any of what we have read or heard about him and Martin is actually true, and neither of us knew either guy either. Meanwhile George Zimmerman, a guy who may have had only good intentions, who possibly did not instigate the physical confrontation, and who may have shot someone only when faced with the choice of living or dying, is showered with hate, name calling, death threats, and cannot live normally anymore.

Everyone blames Zimmerman for following Martin, but have you thought of what the outcome could have been if Trayvon had called 911 instead of staying on the phone with his girlfriend? and if the girlfriend had reacted normally if she was worried about his safety, i.e. call 911 herself too (at least that's what I would do asap if I thought my boyfriend was in danger). The dispatcher would have told both of them who the other was, and none of this would have happened.

And on this note, have a good day Jo-An (I mean that).

InterestedObserver78

Jo-An, all those incidents you mention happened during a couple of months in 2005--seven years ago. The security guard "issue" is from one co-worker and has not been confirmed by his employer nor the supposed woman he threw

Just an FYI InterestedObserver78, the "co-worker", aka "friend" was the "employer" and he was throwing illegal underage drinking parties and was paying George off the books, not that there were any books, to be a bouncer. Bouncers are rarely hired for their personality LOL.

Trust_verify-------I doubt that could be true. Zimmerman, with his wanting to be a policeman, would probably want no part in an illegal underage party. (Unless it is legal to let underage kids drink on private property. Is it?)

you all have thoughtful comments

Trust_verify-------I doubt that could be true.

The "friend" wasn't very forthcoming other than getting his 2 cents in the news. Strangely no details have been found other than the "friends" statement. The best anyone has come out with though was that the "gig" was bouncer for underage parties. That fits with the $50 - $100 a gig statement. We have to remember George was having some money issues around that time... money is money in some situations.

Thanks, t_v, I didn't know that the source was his supposed employer.

Thoughtfulcomments, I do not know that "the wanting to become a cop" is legit. I think that may be an assumption because of Zimmerman studying criminal justice; his family have said that he expressed interest in either becoming a lawyer or a magistrate, I believe, rather than a cop. Someone else here may have a better source for this. [t_v, I'm looking at you... :) ]

InterestedObserver78

Jo-An, all those incidents you mention happened during a couple of months in 2005--

I realize that, it still shows his character.

-Anna-,

But why do you conclude that is has to do with her race/color?

Because, this is Florida, I live here, this is the way the police operate here. Sad, but true!

As far as Daniel Adkins, it was in Az, which I also lived in for 12 years, obviously I don't have enough info to determine an "opinion" on that. Remember, it took a month, and an online petition (which I signed) to get national attention for Trayvon's case. Sharpton didn't just wake up one day and decide to stir up the racial pot, he was approached and decided to take it to the public.

I have said from the beginning, I don't "know" if GZ is a racist, but I do know the SPD "overall" is, look up their record. We also "know" GZ was profiling, that night. Right or wrong, he was looking at Trayvon as a "young black teen" like the ones that had been breaking into homes in his neighborhood.

Trayvon Martin also had a juvenile record, so I guess that would make it even.

Why is this LIE still being spread as a fact?

state Department of Juvenile Justice confirmed that Trayvon does not have a juvenile offender record. The information came after a public records request by The Associated Press.

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman-report-says/#ixzz1tW19RuUn

At the scene of the crime, the police treated Trayvon Martin like a criminal as he lay dead. They did a background check on him but not on Zimmerman. They did a test for drugs and alcohol on Trayvon's dead body, but not on Zimmerman. The police have said from the very beginning TRAYVON HAD NO JUVENILE RECORD, NONE!

but have you thought of what the outcome could have been if Trayvon had called 911 instead of staying on the phone with his girlfriend? and if the girlfriend had reacted normally if she was worried about his safety, i.e. call 911 herself too (at least that's what I would do asap if I thought my boyfriend was in danger). The dispatcher would have told both of them who the other was, and none of this would have happened.

That you would even "think" this way, shows you have no idea, what it's like to be a black teen in the US...

The police are NOT their friend, they avoid contact with the police, as best they can, they do NOT run, that would show "guilt", whether warranted or not.

Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/26/trayvon-martin-attacked-george-zimmerman-report-says/#ixzz1tW19RuUn

wow... FOX NEWS? Say it aint' so... someone in the Martin camp using fox news as a source after telling us Fox can't be trusted.

At the scene of the crime, the police treated Trayvon Martin like a criminal as he lay dead.

They ran a background to see who he was... How many Trayvon Martins are there?

They did a background check on him but not on Zimmerman.

How were they able to tell Trayvons parents that George had no criminal background? Which was correct as he had no convictions on his RECORD... READ expunged = no record.

They did a test for drugs and alcohol on Trayvon's dead body, but not on Zimmerman

They performed an AUTOPSY which is what they do on DEAD bodies. A drug test is SOP in an autopsy. Police observed George and he did not appear to be under the influence of anything... he was not under arrest and was not behind the wheel when police arrived. They did not have a warrant to perform ANY test. See the 4th amendment. All the same they MAY have performed some form of test on George. We don't know a lot of what happened once George was inside the police station... The DA sure isn't saying what evidence she has or doesn't have.

The police are NOT their friend, they avoid contact with the police, as best they can, they do NOT run, that would show "guilt", whether warranted or not.

That all seems to fit into "The Talk" Which until this case I always thought was the birds and bees. I thought everyone was taught not to run from police and respect the uniform and authority figures whether one respected the person behind it or not.

Why would someone RUN from police unless they ARE trying to hide something?

Why not call 9-1-1? "I'm walking home to my dads and this creepy man is following me, first in his truck and now on foot...." "he keeps reaching in his pants"

InterestedObserver78

Thoughtfulcomments, I do not know that "the wanting to become a cop" is legit. I think that may be an assumption because of Zimmerman studying criminal justice; his family have said that he expressed interest in either becoming a lawyer or a magistrate, I believe, rather than a cop. Someone else here may have a better source for this. [t_v, I'm looking at you... :) ]

arg.... this will teach me to admit I keep the links.... LOL
All I have is "A criminal justice student who aspired to become a judge," from Reuters.

Jo-An, you didn't respond to this part of my comment: "He has not been in trouble since then. Are you the same person now that you were when you were 21?" -- Do you really think that two incidents seven years ago and nothing since then means that his character is dictated by those two incidents?

t_v: yeah, I have a hard time keeping track of all the various interesting/relevant links, too. :)

"He has not been in trouble since then. Are you the same person now that you were when you were 21?" -- Do you really think that two incidents seven years ago and nothing since then means that his character is dictated by those two incidents?

Of course I'm not the same person I was a 21, but pretty close! Usually people with "tempers" have a "temper" all of their lives.

Trayvon had NO record, the police confirmed that fact, the

Department of Juvenile Justice confirmed that Trayvon does not have a juvenile offender record. The information came after a public records request by The Associated Press.

None of his suspensions were for "violent acts", yet he is continually called a "thug" a "gansta wanna be", etc...how is that fair?

Jo-An

but have you thought of what the outcome could have been if Trayvon had called 911 instead of staying on the phone with his girlfriend? and if the girlfriend had reacted normally if she was worried about his safety, i.e. call 911 herself too (at least that's what I would do asap if I thought my boyfriend was in danger). The dispatcher would have told both of them who the other was, and none of this would have happened.

That you would even "think" this way, shows you have no idea, what it's like to be a black teen in the US...

Oh for God's sake Jo-An, do you actually think you are the only person who has been around black people? I used to live in an area where half the population was black, I was going to school with whites, blacks, and many other races. geesh. And yeah if Trayvon Martin had called 911 they would have told him the guy who was following him was a neighborhood watcher, and they would have told George Zimmerman that the guy he was following had just called them (and therefore was not "up to no good"), and none of this would have happened. What the heck else do you think they would have told them? told Martin that they were coming to arrest him and told Zimmerman go get the guy because they thought he was indeed "up to no good"??? I'm sorry Jo-An but your reply about this doesn't make any sense at all.

And about your reply about being 21 and being about the same person, how many do you think did incredibly stupid things, even things that were somewhat "violent" or crimes like stealing, when they were that age and went on to live good lives and be trustworthy citizens.

Maybe a "black" man, could explain to you why they don't call or trust the police...obviously I'm white, so yu don't believe me.

Jo-An

Anna

But why do you conclude that is has to do with her race/color?

Because, this is Florida, I live here, this is the way the police operate here. Sad, but true!

So I guess you know it all? all cops are racists, and all blacks are victims of these "racist scumbags" right? surely only whites commit crimes in your area. That's pretty straightforward is it not?

I will repeat what I said to be sure that it is very clear: The same thing happens over and over to white (and black and any other race/color) women, they get fed up with their violent husband, and they are the ones who end up in prison. This is true for every State, and even countries.

As far as Daniel Adkins, it was in Az, which I also lived in for 12 years, obviously I don't have enough info to determine an "opinion" on that. Remember, it took a month, and an online petition (which I signed) to get national attention for Trayvon's case. Sharpton didn't just wake up one day and decide to stir up the racial pot, he was approached and decided to take it to the public.

And I guess I don't have to repeat what I think of the campaign ran by Trayvon Martin's family do I?

But for more information about Daniel Adkins, you can do a search with his name and the location if you are interested. Briefly in this case, in my opinion it was also due to a terrible misunderstanding, but the guy was pretty quick at shooting, as he was in his car and it seems he could have stepped on the gas instead. And I am not certain if the guy who shot him should be arrested or not (I don't know all the details either, just as the case we are discussing here, I just know what I have heard and read in the medias), but he did make a mistake for sure, if he was charged it would probably be for something like manslaughter. Which doesn't make him a "cold blooded killer" nor a "monster". As I mentioned before race/color doesn't make any difference to me.

Also I forgot about this:

The police are NOT their friend, they avoid contact with the police, as best they can

Maybe they should start NOT avoiding them? Police officers on patrol are always willing to talk with people they meet on their patrol, it is a way for them to get to know the population, and to get better information when needed. This "police are not their friend" and "avoid contact with the police" attitude leads to a vicious circle of mistrust on both sides. Police officers are just humans too.

The more I read your posts, the more I wonder if you are prejudiced against whites (regardless of your own race as you seem to be white in your picture). I think there is a lot of BS in your comments, you assume that all police officers are racists, sorry I don't buy that, some of them may be but then again some people in the black community are also racist. Police will answer calls whenever they are called, and will patrol areas and do the best they can to prevent crimes, that's what they are paid for and that's what they do. If you look suspicious, for whatever reason, they will check on you, regardless of your color/race.

Jo-An-4354969

Maybe a "black" man, could explain to you why they don't call or trust the police...obviously I'm white, so yu don't believe me.

Jo-An, the fact that you are white doesn't make any difference, you still sound very prejudiced against whites. If a black guy explained to me that he doesn't trust the cops and that he wouldn't have called 911 for that reason, I would tell him exactly the same thing I told you. There is NO WAY in the world that a guy (whether he would be black, white or frickin purple) would call 911 and explain that he is being followed, and then would be told "go f*** yourself we won't help you because you're black", or ignore the fact that they know who was following him and for what reason. They would simply tell him that they knew someone was following him and that this guy was a neighborhood watcher, plain and simple. They would also tell the guy who was following about the call from the guy he suspected.

And I would tell that black guy to start calling 911 next time he feels threatened (which actually they do, police stations get a lot of calls from black people as well as from any other races). I would also tell him to start communicating with cops when he sees them on patrol, and to encourage his friends and family to do so as well, police officers DO want to communicate with the population.

-Anna-,

Good LORD, you are sure testy this afternoon, aren't you!

First, I NEVER said "ALL" I said Sanford Police Department, even there I said "overall", obviously not ALL cops are racist, but SPD overall has problems. I know several police persons here in Florida and they agree.

I will repeat what I said to be sure that it is very clear:

If you are trying to cop the "high and mighty" t_v attitude with me, there's no reason for further discussion.

Maybe they should start NOT avoiding them?

Yes, maybe they should, why don't you let them know..."police are your friends", while you're at it, inform the police as well.

The more I read your posts, the more I wonder if you are prejudiced against whites

Yes, that's me, prejudiced against whites....

You sure have put a lot of word in my mouth today!

Jo-An

Yes, maybe they should, why don't you let them know..."police are your friends", while you're at it, inform the police as well.

Inform them of what exactly? lol

Ok let me try a different way ...

I will tell you a little story that happened to me. One day police officers knocked at my door (there was actually 3 of them, maybe one of them was a trainee but I don't know). It was pretty early and I was sleeping when they knocked. They said something like "you called us", it sounded more a like a statement then a question. As I said I was sleeping when they knocked at my door, and I may have looked as if I was drunk or something (which I was not, just to be clear lol), because I was still trying to wake up. I don't know tho, I am just trying to put myself in their shoes and understand what they may have been thinking. So of course I told them that I didn't call them, well guess what, they didn't believe me. Of course I insisted and repeated that I didn't call them. I invited them to come in the house and look around if they wanted. Two of our friends had cars they didn't want anymore and left them in our backyard (which is very big, lots of space) and my boyfriend wanted to check if he could repair them, so they were still in the backyard when the cops came over. So after repeating numerous times that I didn't call them, they proceeded to check those cars, to check each license plate, and look around generally. Finally, after at least half an hour or checking everything out, and them not believing me and insisting that the call came from my house, of me insisting that I didn't call them, and asking them to please oh please just check my phone number, one of them finally asked me for my phone and called the police station from my phone, and then realised that they were mistaken. I don't remember if they even apologized to me. (the call was actually from one of my neighbors).

Now if this happens to one of your neighbors who happens to be black, do you think that he may possibly assume that they don't believe him because he is black? that they check everything in his backyard, and so on, and that this goes on for at least half an hour, because he is black?

And after all this I still don't hate police officers (pretty much the opposite actually, they are putting their lives on the line for us day after day), those 3 made a mistake, and as upset as I was when it happened, luckily there was no serious consequence other then making me lose my time. I could however after that have my doubts about their competence, I could generalise and think that most cops are dumb, and/or will not believe me next time if I need them. On the other hand tho it is also police officers who helped me when I was still with my crazy violent ex, and they were absolutely great. I even sent a letter to the police station to thank the 2 officers who answered my call to thank them. When they came to check on me a few days later, to make sure I was ok, the officer who came over thanked me for the letter I had sent, he told me that they very rarely get feedback and was touched that I had taken the time to send the letter.

My point is that we shouldn't assume that everytime something upsetting happens, or there is an injustice, or the cops make a mistake and assume that you are lying, or that you may be up to no good, that it is automatically based on someone's race/color.

I forgot to mention this, I thought the "testy" comment was pretty funny lol

-Anna-,

That's a nice story, and I can clearly see, nothing happened to you, so why would you have ill feelings towards the police?

FYI the police knocked on our door one morning around 2AM looking for the person that stole our neighbors tractor, they said the dogs tracked a scent to our front door, they asked about our children, only one was home that night, and he was asleep. I let the police in, took them up the staircase, knocked on my sons door, woke him up out of an OBVIOUS DEAD sleep, and let them talk to him. He was clearly not the tractor thief. The police apologized and we said goodnight. I wasn't particularly happy with being awoken at 2AM, but I know they were doing there job. Talked to the neighbor a few days later and they found the tractor in the opposite direction of where we even live. So much for those dogs sense!

My daughter was dating a black/hispanic boy a few years ago, nice guy in his second year of college at the time. They went up to Ybor City dancing one Saturday evening, and were having a good time, when the police came up to her boyfriend and started hassling him, asking him about a car outside, he had no idea what they were talking about. Long story, short, they took him outside, slammed him up against the police car, shone the flashlight in his face, and accused him of slitting some tires on a car. After a half hour or so, of pure intimidation, and threats (my daughter was scared to death) they got a call, they "found the guy".....they just pushed her friend away and said "next time"....

Jo-An

That's a nice story, and I can clearly see, nothing happened to you, so why would you have ill feelings towards the police?

I fail to see where it would fall in the category "nice story". But to answer your question: Because they were rude as heck, didn't believe me, did a search on my property, and kept insisting that they thought I was lying. That's why. My boyfriend was p****d as heck too and complained to the Chief of police.

Recently there was an article here on MSNBC, about a similar mistake (going to the wrong house) and they shot the guy's dog.

And in your 2nd story, it seems you assume they suspected the boyfriend because he was part black, am I right? That is exactly the point of my story, assuming. You have no idea why they suspected him, none.

However, when someone feels they have been treated unjustly, and especially if they are honest citizens (i.e. did not commit some other crimes then the one they were wrongly suspected for), they should complain to the Chief of Police, with cc to the Mayor, Governor, and whoever else they feel should know. They should go to city meetings where citizens are allowed and make their story known. If the mistake/harassment had more serious consequences (then hurt feelings) they should then alert organisations in their area who know how to deal with those cases, and/or sue the people who are responsible.

And I repeat, befriend the officers in patrol, they DO want to talk to citizens, they DO like to know the people who live in the areas they patrol. Police officers are by nature social "butterflies". If you are an honest citizen you have nothing to fear, only good will come from it, it is one of the best ways to end the mistrust on both sides.

One more thing about your comment "while you're at it, inform the police as well" (this comment was slighty strange if you ask me, I am not sure what you were implying there), if you witness a burglary at your neighbor's house, wouldn't you (inform the police)?

And finally, if things are that bad in your area, to where it becomes unbearable to live there, honestly if it was me I would just move to another area, as did one of George Zimmerman's neighbors because she was too scared after some guys tried to commit robbery/burglary at her house.

And in your 2nd story, it seems you assume they suspected the boyfriend because he was part black, am I right? That is exactly the point of my story, assuming. You have no idea why they suspected him, none.

It seems you assumed, I assumed "because he was part black"...I have no idea why, neither do you!

And I repeat, befriend the officers in patrol, they DO want to talk to citizens, they DO like to know the people who live in the areas they patrol. Police officers are by nature social "butterflies". If you are an honest citizen you have nothing to fear, only good will come from it, it is one of the best ways to end the mistrust on both side

I don't need a lecture on how to get along with the police! As I already stated, I have quite a few friends, and customers that are/were police persons. I have NO problems with them!

One more thing about your comment "while you're at it, inform the police as well"

That seems self explanatory to me.

And finally, if things are that bad in your area, to where it becomes unbearable to live there, honestly if it was me I would just move to another area,

WTF? I love where I live, I have NO idea what you are talking about!

You seem to read a lot into things!

Jo-An-4354969

It seems you assumed, I assumed "because he was part black"...I have no idea why, neither do you!

I didn't assume anything, indeed I have no idea why they harassed him, but I am wondering why you even mentioned that he was black/hispanic.

I don't need a lecture on how to get along with the police! As I already stated, I have quite a few friends, and customers that are/were police persons. I have NO problems with them!

But yet you seem reluctant to the idea of the black community befriending police officers on patrol, your comments here made it pretty obvious, I don't have to "read into things" to get to that conclusion:

The police are NOT their friend, they avoid contact with the police, as best they can

and when I mentioned befriending officers on patrol (about black guys) you said:

Yes, maybe they should, why don't you let them know..."police are your friends", while you're at it, inform the police as well.

Either way I was not talking about you (I remember that a while ago you mentioned that you were friend with an officer who told you that there was racists among them), I was talking about the black community.

And about my comment about moving if I didn't like an area, you said:

WTF? I love where I live, I have NO idea what you are talking about!

Good for you then! But you mentioned a few times how racist and unfair the cops are in your area (and it sounds like it upsets you a lot, as it should), I even thought you were a black woman until you decided to put your picture up, so I'm sorry if I kind of thought you didn't like the area that much.

If you care as much as you seem about the issue (racism), maybe you could be some kind of "peace-maker" between the two sides and help them end this mistrust. Note that I am not saying that in a mean way, I think if you have friends on both sides, maybe you could actually help end this issue in some way.

-Anna-

I live in a very large state, Florida. It has a diverse population, and I am lucky enough to live in a coastal community with not much crime, or racism either.

I have owned a child care center for several years, in an area north of where I live, in an area less fortunate than my own. I have seen plenty of racism in both directions there. White to black and black to white, not to mention Hispanics, and Asians as well. White's were the minority in my childcare center, as the owner I got to know most parents pretty well over the years. Several have been police officers, as I said before, both black and white, men and women, gay and straight. I could tell stories! I get along with everyone that I have contact with, (in the real world) and as a result, they also get along with me. Our children's school's actually had kids "bussed in" from the black area in town, I didn't even know that stuff still happened but I guess it does in Florida. There are also several black families that live in our area. My children have friends of all backgrounds, as a result, I have heard some tales through out the years. Trust me, they ARE treated differently, pretending it isn't true, doesn't make it so.

I have been involved with multicultural trainings and workshops throughout the years, to reduce bigotry in both directions, and to assure children have the best chance in this world. Kids aren't born as racists, it's a learned behavior. Trust me, this has been a mission of mine for a very long time.

As far as being a "peacemaker", I think I have always been a peacemaker, and my kids saw us practice what we preached. Funny, I thought we had really gotten somewhere when Obama was elected, boy was I wrong! It just brought out the closet racists, in full force! But that's another thread!

You will never convince me that the SPD didn't just look at Trayvon and GZ and believe GZ's story with no real investigation, solely, because Trayon was black and GZ was NOT!

PS, I sold my preschool last year, so that is why I have so much internet time on my hands.

Good for you and glad to know that you are doing your part to end racism. I thought you mentioned you lived in Sanford or in an area close to Sanford tho (maybe it was just that one cop you mentioned before?), and you seemed to know a lot of people over there, which is why I mentioned a possible role as a "peace-maker" in that area, between the guys you say don't consider cops as friends, and the cops you say are so racist. I guess I was mistaken, sorry.

About the mixed racial background. As I mentioned before, there was people of many different races in my area and at my school as well (blacks, whites, including japanese, morrocan, italian, and many others), but I never noticed any of them being harassed by the cops because of their color/race. The ones whom the police "harassed" (read "kept an eye on them") either were taking or selling drugs, and/or had done something illegal at some point, and/or acted like wannabe gangsters, their color/race had nothing to do with it, their actions and/or demeanor had everything to do with it.

If it is as bad as you say in Florida, and the police harass innocent people who have never done anything wrong, I would definitely move to another area, but that's just me.

But what does Obama has to do with any of this? I think it just means that if you assumed that most people were too racist to vote for him you were wrong. Hopefully people voted for him because they thought he would be a good President and not because of his color/race (which would be racism as well). But would you have assumed that there was more racists if he hadn't been elected? I remember the time during his presidential campaign, and the general atmosphere, it felt like there was some kind of social pressure going on, either you voted for him and were not deemed a racist, or if you didn't vote for him it meant that you were a racist. Neither of which is true. I do understand your point tho, but I hope that now that we are over electing only white men as presidents, in the future people will continue voting for the person they think would be the most competent as a president, regardless of his race/color.

You will never convince me that the SPD didn't just look at Trayvon and GZ and believe GZ's story with no real investigation, solely, because Trayon was black and GZ was NOT!

It seems it is not the only thing you are convinced of. Other then being convinced that they didn't follow the standard procedure, and that whatever they did (or didn't do) was due to being racists, you also seem convinced that George Zimmerman is lying, and/or that their conclusion about this case is wrong. For some reason you assume that Trayvon Martin didn't do anything wrong, and that George Zimmerman is lying and that he is a bad guy (if I judge by your comments about him). I assume neither. There is a big difference between being convinced of something, and actually knowing. Being convinced of something doesn't make it true. In the past some people were convinced that a guy had committed a crime and killed him, just to realise later that the guy was innocent. Many black guys were killed in such a way in the past, by people who were convinced that they were guilty.

P.S. #1:

I get along with everyone that I have contact with, (in the real world)

I don't hate you or anything, I just disagree with you.

P.S. #2: You don't have to explain why you have time on your hands Jo-An, I'm not judging you. But that's good, enjoy your new freedom after working hard all those years. Personally I work at home right now and I enjoy it very much.

-Anna-

thought you mentioned you lived in Sanford or in an area close to Sanford tho

My youngest son is in film school up there (Orlando area) perhaps you heard me say something about knowing the area.

If it is as bad as you say in Florida, and the police harass innocent people who have never done anything wrong, I would definitely move to another area, but that's just me.

As I said, we live in a nice area, and don't personally have any problems with police, we own our home and have lived here 15 years. Most people just can't up and leave, if the don't like their surroundings, they have jobs, extended family, etc. to consider.

As far as Obama, I actually thought the opposite of what you wrote, I thought we had come a long way as a country. I wanted Hillary to be our candidate, but soon grew to LOVE Obama.

I think it just means that if you assumed that most people were too racist to vote for him you were wrong.

I really don't think in terms of "racism" in every aspect of the day, so your next statements never crossed my mind.

But would you have assumed that there was more racists if he hadn't been elected? I remember the time during his presidential campaign, and the general atmosphere, it felt like there was some kind of social pressure going on, either you voted for him and were not deemed a racist, or if you didn't vote for him it meant that you were a racist.

I lived in Arizona for 12 years and I liked John McCain VERY much, he was thoughtful, reasonable, and worked across the aisle. When he ran for President I was horrified by his behavior, he was pandering to the far right nut jobs, across the board. He completely changed to bring in the teaparty vote! As I said, this isn't the thread to argue politics.

you also seem convinced that George Zimmerman is lying,

YES, ABSOLUTELY! I have NEVER hidden this opinion, I think he is a LIAR!

or some reason you assume that Trayvon Martin didn't do anything wrong,

What did he do wrong? Please don't give me "maybe's" or tell me about his school suspensions, or FB pictures, just tell me what HE was doing THAT NIGHT that made George Zimmerman murder him! Don't tell me what he "may" have been doing, tell me what he WAS doing to deserve GZ's bullet.

In the past some people were convinced that a guy had committed a crime and killed him, just to realise later that the guy was innocent. Many black guys were killed in such a way in the past, by people who were convinced that they were guilty.

That is why I am against Capital Punishment, and I am all for a fair trial! I have said from the beginning I Just wanted GZ to be arrested and tried for this crime. I'm willing to accept the verdict which ever way it falls, guilty or innocent. I would need to see some pretty convincing evidence to change my mind about GZ, but I'm willing to listen.

At this time, my opinion is based on the 911 tape where a women is calling to report the fight in her backyard, in that call someone is screaming and pleading for their life, for a minute or so...it's NOT GZ, so it must be Trayvon. I don't know how you can listen to that and not realize, a teen is begging for his life, and then the gun is fired! BOOM....

There is NO way that is GZ begging for his life, it's Trayvon....

Listen closely....it's the 3rd 911 call.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/16/trayvon-martin-911-audio-_n_1354909.html

I know you are convinced GZ is innocent, but open your mind and listen.

PS. My husband is working a 4 year job in the Bahamas, so

PS. My husband is working a 4 year job in the Bahamas, so, yes, I am enjoying life!

My sentence was cut off!

Jo-An

About Obama, you said:

I thought we had really gotten somewhere when Obama was elected, boy was I wrong! It just brought out the closet racists, in full force!

And this is why I figured you were referring to racism in the country.

What did he do wrong? Please don't give me "maybe's" or tell me about his school suspensions, or FB pictures, just tell me what HE was doing THAT NIGHT that made George Zimmerman murder him! Don't tell me what he "may" have been doing, tell me what he WAS doing to deserve GZ's bullet.

Unfortunately there is still a lot of "maybe's" and 'if's" for the time being, and I can only tell you what he "may" have been doing since neither of us knows for sure what he was doing when he was shot.
But anyway I was not talking about his past, I meant that IF he backtracked or waited for Zimmerman, it was bad judgement just as much as Zimmerman following him.
IF he was indeed bashing Zimmerman's head on the sidewalk and Zimmerman didn't have the strength to stop him, and/or if he was trying to grab his gun, that would be why he got shot.
And IF he initiated the physical confrontation, if he was still alive he would have been charged for assault, and maybe for murder (charges for minors) if Zimmerman had died from the head bashing.

There is NO way that is GZ begging for his life, it's Trayvon....

Listen closely....it's the 3rd 911 call.

I did listen to the audio files, more then once.

Have you ever heard Trayvon Martin's voice? If not, how do you know it is him screaming? I know I havent heard any sample of his voice yet, so I have no idea if it could be him screaming. And George Zimmerman's voice is not especially low pitched. About the test you mention, if you don't mind I will wait for an official test, and one that is done comparing both voices (surely there must be a sample of Martin's voice somewhere in someone's cellphone). Also consider that our voice is modified quite a bit when we scream.

I'm willing to accept the verdict which ever way it falls, guilty or innocent.

I believe you. I don't know you much but I don't feel that you are the kind of person who would just shoot someone in cold blood.

I know you are convinced GZ is innocent,

You are wrong in assuming that I am 100% convinced. I tend to believe that he is telling the truth for the most part because of the facts that I have heard and read about so far, but I am not 100% convinced, and I also give the benefit of the doubt, that's not the same. Let me write a short list of what I "tend to believe" or am "convinced of", etc, so far (without all the "why" I believe this or that).

I am pretty convinced that:

TM was not a defenseless "child"
TM was a tough guy (nothing wrong with that, I'd want to be perceived as tough too if I was a guy)
GZ did not shoot him in cold blood

I tend to believe that:

GZ shot him from a very short distance
GZ shot TM because he was overpowered, and either was getting his head bashed on the sidewalk OR TM was trying to grab his gun
GZ was on the way to his truck (or the mailboxes) when they saw each other again (after GZ had lost sight of TM)
TM's girlfriend is not telling everything she heard

I think that it is possible that:

While on his way to his truck and/or the mailboxes, GZ checked behind the houses to see if he could still see TM
TM either waited or backtracked either to confront GZ, or to see if he was still following him
TM or GZ initiated the verbal confrontation
TM or GZ initiated the physical confrontation
It is either TM or GZ heard screaming on the audio files from the woman's 911 call

And about this:

My husband is working a 4 year job in the Bahamas, so, yes, I am enjoying life!

That's great really :) have a good time!

And I think that's about it for today, I've had a long day and I'm tired lol.

-Anna-

Unfortunately there is still a lot of "maybe's" and 'if's" for the time being, and I can only tell you what he "may" have been doing since neither of us knows for sure what he was doing when he was shot.

True, I'm just surprised with what little we know, that people have Trayvon "circling back" to "attack" GZ, talk about fantasyland. Why is Dee Dee's statement "not creditable", her statement is GZ confronted Trayvon.

By the way I have seen no evidence of where GZ parked his vehicle, if you have a link to that evidence I'd appreciate it, everything I have available to me, says GZ called police "near mailboxes & clubhouse" and that is NOT near dead body.

About the test you mention, if you don't mind I will wait for an official test, and one that is done comparing both voices (surely there must be a sample of Martin's voice somewhere in someone's cellphone). Also consider that our voice is modified quite a bit when we scream.

The test that has been done was a test against Zimmerman's own voice, not a comparison of his and Trayvon's voice, but I am sure someone has a recording of Trayvon's voice, and feel certain the results of that will be near 100% match. I'm willing to wait.

I think Trayvon100 summed things up nicely to you on another post response, but I will repeat it, because it mirrors my thoughts exactly:

And considering the statements Zimmerman made to the "dispatcher", He was preparing himself for confrontation.

"these @!$%#s always get away" Statements like this say a lot about a persons frame of mind and suggest that they are ready, willing and able to put a stop to what they're perceiving to be wrong.

Is it a coincidence that these statements were made prior to someone being killed. I'd say you'd have to stretch your imagination pretty far to believe that. But we don't know.

On the other hand, if you are being followed. What would be going through you mind? Maybe you'd be preparing yourself for fight or flight.

I'd consider being followed a confrontation act in itself if it were me, maybe that's what Trayvon was thinking. I certainly don't believe that Zimmerman somehow "lost" his intended target, and Trayvon double back and attacked him. I just don't believe that.

I you are following someone and you state, "they always get away" as Zimmerman did. I think that frame of mind, knowing you are armed turns to "not this time".

You could hear it in his voice on the tape, he was basically preparing himself aloud.

By the way I have seen no evidence of where GZ parked his vehicle, if you have a link to that evidence I'd appreciate it, everything I have available to me, says GZ called police "near mailboxes & clubhouse" and that is NOT near dead body.

Both the link Jo-an provided

http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/

and the one from NYT

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

are based off of the description george gives of being at the cut through and is the only place it makes sense that he could see both to the mailboxes/clubhouse and into the cut through as well as have trayvon "approach" George AND then run/walk away.

George MENTIONED the clubhouse as being where he saw Trayvon at the start of the call to dispatch.

Zimmerman: "He's near the clubhouse right now. Now he's coming towards me. He has his hands in his waistband. He is a black male. Something's wrong with him. Yep. He's coming to check me out. He's got something in his hands. I don't know what his deal is. Send officers over here."

He then mentions the mailboxes in describing how police can find him as they come in through the front entrance.

Zimmerman: "Tell them to come past the clubhouse and make a left then past mailboxes and they will see my truck ..."

he doesn't say he is parked AT the mailboxes. Only that they can see his truck FROM the mailboxes once they make the turn.

transcript copied from http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/03/20/911-calls-paint-picture-of-chaos-after-florida-teen-is-shot/ and mirrors what is on the released recordings.

No, sweetheart, BOTH of those are based off of GOOGLE EARTH! Satellite view!

Why must you LIE and spread UNTRUTHS DAILY?

Get your google earth out, turn it upside down and VOILA! All the same vehicles, parked in the SAME spots right down to two cars in the front yard on the other side of MURDER location!

As far as the rest of your BS, look at the NYTimes map, and based on where Trayvon likely reentered the neighborhood, and where GZ's home was, it is likely (if GZ was really coming or going from a personal errand) GZ started following Trayvon BEFORE the clubhouse, was on phone with police when Trayvon turned and head to the left, towards "back entrance", therefore he was MORE LIKELY to be near mailboxes when he hung up from police!

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

Of course we all know he continued to PURSUE Trayvon, and ended up behind the homes where he MURDERED the child in cold blood!

Jo-An

By the way I have seen no evidence of where GZ parked his vehicle, if you have a link to that evidence I'd appreciate it, everything I have available to me, says GZ called police "near mailboxes & clubhouse" and that is NOT near dead body.

From what I have read he was on the other side of the alley (opposite side of the truck), and had to cross the alley to get to his truck and the mailboxes. And no I don't have any more evidence then you do, so I guess it is pretty useless to argue about it while we have conflicting information (unless you have access to the actual investigation documents - which I don't). I guess we should just wait for the official report about that.

True, I'm just surprised with what little we know, that people have Trayvon "circling back" to "attack" GZ, talk about fantasyland. Why is Dee Dee's statement "not creditable", her statement is GZ confronted Trayvon.

Circling back OR waiting. But as you said "we know little" so I guess at the moment both assumptions are "fantasyland" (personally as I mentioned I think both are equally possible, I honestly don't see why the possibility that TM attacked GZ would be less plausible then GZ attacking TM). And again I guess we have conflicting information because from what I have read she said that TM said "why are you following me", and that GZ said "why are you here", and that she heard the headphones fall, and personally I cannot tell just from that which one attacked the other one. Also the idea that TM or GZ would have attacked the other just after these 2 sentences just doesn't make much sense to me, as I mentioned I feel there is something missing and that she is not telling everything. And even if TM initiated the confrontation I doubt that she would ever tell because there would be a lot of people who would be very angry at her (to say the least), personally I would fear for my life. P.S. forgive me if I'm wrong but you seem to be more willing to believe the girlfriend then GZ, why is that? do you know her personally and can attest that she is trustworthy?

Speaking of TM's girlfriend (his "ho" as TM called her), someone mentioned that they saw what she was "tweeting" for hours that night, and that there was no mention of TM, nor that she was worried about him nor that someone was following him, there was only usual stuff, talking with friends of unrelated stuff. I don't know if it will be relevant or not tho, but the person said that he/she sent the information with screenshots to GZ's lawyer.

The test that has been done was a test against Zimmerman's own voice, not a comparison of his and Trayvon's voice, but I am sure someone has a recording of Trayvon's voice, and feel certain the results of that will be near 100% match. I'm willing to wait.

Yes I know it was a test against GZ's voice, I meant a comparison of the results. I also said that when we scream our voice may sound pretty different. I don't know if this is taken into account or not. And yes it could be a match with TM's voice. We just don't know yet, so again it is pretty useless to argue about this. It is very possible that TM thought that GZ wanted to kill him, and that GZ thought the same thing of TM, so it seems equally possible that either of them would have screamed. As I said I will wait for an official test, admitted as evidence in court.

"these @!$%#s always get away" Statements like this say a lot about a persons frame of mind and suggest that they are ready, willing and able to put a stop to what they're perceiving to be wrong.

See in my opinion is it just means what he said, that "they always got away", it doesn't mean that he intented to go ahead and confront TM. You wouldn't want to hear me think out loud sometimes lol.

On the other hand, if you are being followed. What would be going through you mind? Maybe you'd be preparing yourself for fight or flight.

If I was being followed, I would try to get somewhere safe and call 911 asap, and if I was on the phone with my boyfriend I would ask him to call 911 asap as well. Unfortunately I don't know what was going through TM's mind. I do think that he thought that GZ was "up to no good" tho, just as GZ thought TM was "up to no good".

I certainly don't believe that Zimmerman somehow "lost" his intended target, and Trayvon double back and attacked him. I just don't believe that.

You are entitled to your opinion of course. But why would he call 911, tell them he sees TM, tell them TM turned around and looked at him (and I noticed that he sounded worried when he said that), and later on lie when telling them that he doesn't see him anymore (or something like that). In fact if you intend to shoot someone why call 911 in the first place and risk having the cops witnessing you attacking the other person? it doesn't make much sense to me.

Anyway, here is an article about the "big bad racist" George Zimmerman. There is a video and a copy of the 4 pages flyer he distributed to the community. And before you start saying that it is a lie, just remember that this at least is easy to prove, as many in the community will have seen this flyer.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/george-zimmerman-demanded-discipline-in-racially-tinged-2010-police-corruption-case/

Why must you LIE and spread UNTRUTHS DAILY?

And just what lie is it I am supposedly stating? YOU provided us with the non NYT link. THAT site provided the "presumed location of zimmermans truck" It happens to coincide with the rendering from NYT. So if there is FAULT with the location don't try to pin YOUR source issues on me or the NYT.

http://viewfromll2.com/2012/04/05/minute-by-minute-timeline-of-trayvon-martins-death/

Can YOU, or anyone else, provide a timeline with source other than the those two? Your simply stating it isn't true doesn't make it a lie. The legal system isn't based on who yells the loudest. It is based on evidence and provable circumstance.

GZ started following Trayvon BEFORE the clubhouse,

We debated the where George FIRST encountered Trayvon before and at that time you informed me that that was not possible.. now you claim it is how it happened.

My statement still stands.. The majority of the call to dispatch has George parked at the cut through where the truck i depicted short of the sidewalk facing UP towards the clubhouse with the mailboxes and clubhouse to the left about a block/row of homes distant.

Smooth your feathers out already. There is no need to get all riled up simply when you see my name in a response.

-Anna-

the idea that TM or GZ would have attacked the other just after these 2 sentences just doesn't make much sense to me,

I don't think GZ actually "attacked" Trayvon (I admit I say it sometimes, in response to the "Trayvon attacking GZ" comment, because it is equally as silly, and we really don't know). I think Trayvon was somewhat nervous, that he was being followed, and when GZ came upon him (and it must have been sudden, because he didn't tell DeeDee GZ was coming towards him) when GZ confronted him, I think he may have reached out to "detain" Trayvon, for the police, as we all know, they were on their way, and Trayvon, freaked, and a fight broke out!

I don't think GZ set out to murder Trayvon, but I do believe once he had the upper hand on Trayvon, while he screamed for his life, GZ pulled the trigger.

As far as Dee Dee hiding something, we haven't been given her entire statement, for obvious reasons. The Martin attorney has said from the very beginning that they had her statement, audio taped from shortly AFTER the MURDER, I have no reason to think she would lie. GZ on the other hand, has a VERY GOOD reason to LIE! He may be going away for awhile. If you read his 2005 Myspace page (where he refers to his ex as a HO) he makes it clear, he doesn't want to do any time, and that his friends will do a year, and keep their mouth shut about him.....

“I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book,” the 2005 Myspace page said. “Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”

Another line suggested his friends went to jail and did not rat him out. “They do a year and dont ever open thier [sic] mouth to get my ass pinched.”

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/01/2778234/myspace-page-is-latest-salvo-in.html#storylink=cpy

We will agree to disagree, I think GZ is a LYING MURDERER, and you don't...
You have been civil in your disagreement with me, I appreciate that!
:)

PS, we still don't know where the truck was parked, but I'm sure the Prosecutor does...
And GZ's mother and father are biological, they were married in 1975 and had 4 children.

About TM's girlfriend, I personally think she has very good reasons to lie, I can imagine the reaction of some people in the black community if she happened to say that her boyfriend actually jumped on GZ, or that he himself used racial slurs and/or was a racist, and/or provoked GZ, or whatever else. You probably saw all the death threats too ... you probably heard about the attacks on whites where people mentioned "justice for Trayvon" (heck they hadn't even done anything and they get beaten) ... enough said.

I think neither of them was perfect and that they both made mistakes (either in the past or the night of the fight), that's what I think, and I think that if TM had been the neighborhood watcher, you wouldn't be reacting so strongly, and be so quick at condemning him.

And since it seems they are bent on attacking GZ's past and not TM's (2005 was 7 years ago if I'm not mistaken?) ... here is another Twitter account that TM used (at least they are pretty certain that it was him and they explain why in the article) before the no_limit_nigga one.

http://dailycaller.com/2012/03/29/second-trayvon-martin-twitter-feed-identified/

Did you even look at the article I posted? George Zimmerman did more for that homeless guy then anyone else.

You constantly make excuses for TM (and the girlfriend, and his family) for whatever he may have done that was wrong ... he didn't call 911 "that's because cops are not their friend, they avoid them" ... the girlfriend didn't call 911 either "same excuse here" (as if the police station never get calls from black people, come on!) ... he may have attacked GZ "that's because he was nervous" ... and so on ... the girlfriend may not be telling everything "she has no reason to lie" (yeah right, except maybe if she wants to be able to go outside without fearing for her life), Trayvon's family ran a dishonest campaign depicting their son as a defenseless child and GZ as a hardened criminal "nothing wrong with that (as it doesn't seem to bother you at all)".

I realise that its pretty useless to discuss any of it finally because it doesn't matter what TM did or not, you will still make excuses for whatever he may have done that was wrong, and you will still crucify GZ for whatever he may have done that was either a mistake or due to being protective of his neighborhood, as if he was some kind of serial killer.

Personally I think that GZ may or may not, be lying about some things (i.e. maybe he approached him to ask why he was there, but I don't know if he did or not, any more then you do, I tend to believe that he stopped following after the 911 call), but that either way I don't think he intended to fight with TM nor arrest him, I don't think he shot TM in cold blood, and I don't believe it was ever his intention to kill him. Note that IF he approached him to ask him what he was doing there, at this point, considering he hadn't seen TM do anything wrong, he had no reason whatsoever to fear him or to think he would jump on him just for asking that question.

Personally I've seen a neighbor looking out for his neighbors, and asking a guy who was at his neighbors' house something similar to "what are you doing there" or "do you need anything", as he knew the neighbors were absent that day, I guess that guy should have jumped on him ... and we should have crucified the neighbor, ruin his life, insult him, and sent him and his family death threats, for asking that question. With all that BS (i.e. the whole circus, sensationalisation of the case, and following hate towards GZ and his family) everyone will be afraid of looking out for their neighbors, will be worried about even mentioning the person's race if he/she happens to be black, and will also be called "paranoiac" for calling 911 (as his neighbors themselves did many times after the recent robberies/burglaries).

And yes I try to stay civil, no point in insulting each other because we have different opinions, its not like its going to change anything, its just opinions.

trust_verify

Thanks for the explanation about the links :)

About TM's girlfriend, I personally think she has very good reasons to lie, I can imagine the reaction of some people in the black community if she happened to say that her boyfriend actually jumped on GZ,

At barely 17, I doubt she was his "girlfriend" regardless, her "taped statement" was made within days of the murder, long before this became a national story.

You constantly make excuses for TM (and the girlfriend, and his family) for whatever he may have done that was wrong ... he didn't call 911 "that's because cops are not their friend, they avoid them" ... the girlfriend didn't call 911 either "same excuse here" (as if the police station never get calls from black people, come on!) ... he may have attacked GZ "that's because he was nervous" ... and so on ...

THEY aren't on trial, they shouldn't have to defend their actions....

Trayvon is the victim here, NOT Zimmerman!

All of the actual facts show, GZ profiling, Gz following, and GZ murdering....those are the facts!

The rest is conjecture!

at this point, considering he hadn't seen TM do anything wrong, he had no reason whatsoever to fear him or to think he would jump on him just for asking that question.

Trayvon told Dee Dee some guy was following him and as much as you want to believe Trayovn was a "grown man" facts are he had JUSt TURNED 17, and he was probably scared @!$%#less!

Fact is...Zimmerman should have just stayed in his vehicle and waited for police

THEY aren't on trial, they shouldn't have to defend their actions....

They should be for destroying a person's character, and provoking riots, death threats, attacks on innocent people, and so on.

Trayvon is the victim here, NOT Zimmerman!

They are both victims, in different ways. And so are his family, and so are the people who were attacked recently by people yelling "justice for Trayvon", and so are the elderly couple who have been threatened because an idiot posted their address on Twitter.

as much as you want to believe Trayovn was a "grown man" facts are he had JUSt TURNED 17, and he was probably scared @!$%#less!

I never said he was a "grown man", I said he was a "young man". And yeah he was probably scared, and on the other hand GZ was worried and looking out for his neighbors, and made the mistake of following him. And all of a sudden that makes him a cold blooded killer, a monster, and whatever else you can think of, while its all ok for TM if he attacked him.

Whatever Jo-An, I'm done arguing with you.

Zimmerman destroyed his OWN character! He didn't need ANY help from the media or the VICTIMS!

Your own words Jo-An:

He was still a kid! My 20 year old is still a kid!

And as a reminder: in 2005 George Zimmerman was 21 year old.

And don't bother using my own words, because I stand by them, even at 17 a person is a young adult, a young man, a young woman. Some are more mature then others, but the same is true of grown men and women. And George Zimmerman was indeed a "bad-boy" at 21, 7 years ago (I've known a few like that by the way, who did great afterwards).

But this is George Zimmerman in 2010, I think he was over his "bad boy" period by then: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/george-zimmerman-demanded-discipline-in-racially-tinged-2010-police-corruption-case/

Most of us, if not all, have made mistakes in the past, have done or said things that we are not proud of. As Jesus said: "may the one who has never sinned throw the first stone".

And as I have said before, eventho I do not think that George Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon Martin, nor profiled him based on his race, nor actually wanted to confront him (at least not in a physical way), if he is declared guilty may justice be served. And despite what you may think, I do care about Trayvon Martin just as much, I cried for him, I do think that it is very sad that he died at such a young age, and that it is a terrible loss for his parents and family.

Now I hope I am really done discussing this, because it is really useless as we just don't know much. And I will still refuse to hate either of them, I will still think that things could have easily ended up the other way around (with GZ's death), I will still think that neither are angels, nor the devil, and that they were/are both pretty normal guys who have made mistakes.

Have a good one Jo-An, enjoy the Bahamas, and I wish we had met under better circumstances.

LOL...so it's OKAY for GZ, but NOT Trayvon? That's funny!

Mr O'Mara told GZ to "clean up" his internet sites, and I hear he was talking like a "thug" as recently as March, AFTER the MURDER! Wisely, they can't be seen any more.

I'm not sure why you keep saying he didn't "profile" Trayvon, he himself admitted doing so.

Have a good one Jo-An, enjoy the Bahamas

Thanks, You too! :-)

and I wish we had met under better circumstances.

Agreed!

Maria, O'Mara has control of the money. Zimmerman cannot just use it to pay the bond and take off.

The President only stated that it was a tragedy,he id NOT take sides.You go ahead,send him all your money-Very gullible people.

Maria......the Presidents comments on Trayvon Martin were political and just as racist as anything Al, Jesse, or the NBPP said. Had Trayvon been White you would not have heard a single word from Obama, which makes his comment even worse. And, BTW, he said much more than what you indicate. But, then again, you seem to have a problem with the TRUTH don't you???

Obama gave his condolences to the family after he was asked by a reporter. Otherwise he wouldn't have said anything. You are trying to make it political.

Hey, BK... You're just shoutin' pure BS about Obama!

Fact is...idiotic, neo-nut haters like yourself can't help themselves, anyway! Shove your BS twisted "logic" up your two glutes!

BK,

the Presidents comments on Trayvon Martin were political and just as racist as anything Al, Jesse, or the NBPP said.

How is this racist OR political?

“Obviously this is a tragedy. I can only imagine what these parents are going through. When I think about this boy I think about my own kids and I think every parent in America should be able to understand why it is absolutely imperative that we investigate every aspect of this and that everybody pulls together, federal, state and local to figure out exactly how this tragedy happened.

I’m glad that not only the Justice Department is looking into it, I understand now that the governor of the state of Florida has formed a task force to investigate what is taking place.

I think all of us have to do some soul searching to figure out how something like this happened. That means that we examine the laws and the context for what happened as well as the specifics of the incident.

But my main message is to the parents of Trayvon. If I had a son, he would look like Trayvon. I think they are right to expect that all of us as Americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves and we will get to the bottom of exactly what happened.”

... I love how people's comments are collapsed by the so called community just because someone thinks differently. The comments are not profane or inappropriate in any way. Zimmereman's gonna need all the help he can get due to the bia's nature of the media ,President and public ...

Comments don't get collapsed because 2 or 3 people don't like what you say.

It takes a lot more than that and there has to be a reason given. There is a level of outrage which must be exceeded to collect the brass ring. Judging by what does get posted and not collapsed - a person has to put some effort toward being a total a55 to to get closed down!!

Bias? - you can't get much more "baised" that to shut someone up with bullet in the chest ... for mounting a protest to something basic asking you to get hands off them.

we all start out as babies, we put up with parents wiping our behinds, because we haven't learned how to clean our own butts. At some point we learn to clean up after our self, then we learn how to control our urges, delay our urges... and finally get to the point where it becomes insulting for someone - even parents to put their hands on us... without a reason and damn good explaination.

Apparently, based on history - not bias - George has had issues with keeping his hands to himself. Trying to control someone else, bodily is about as offensive as it gets... there was no defense in what George did. Young teens don't like to be touched - they are just learning how to be independent and they take it personal (as they should) when someone intrudes on their personal space.

So, that's George's excuse to kill? If he had been in the car - none of this would have happened. As for keeping an eye on someone - All he had to do was point and say "its that Black Guy over there" - I'm pretty sure there wouldn't have been too much confusion about who he was talking about; given the 20/20 vision and attitude of the Sanford PD.

George wasn't shy about hsi description of Trayvon in the privacy of his vehicle when talking to the dispatcher, so I doubt if he would have suddenly gotten tongue-tied with 2 or 3 burly Cops backing him up either. After all- Trayvon was distinctive enough to notice in the first place -- doing nothing al all.

The fact that he said ANYTHING was biased. When have you heard him come out and be critical of Black on White or Black on Black or White on White Crimes ??? Answer : NOT!! And AUTOMATICALLY he brought in the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT....i.e., Hate Crime.

The President was asked a question, and he answered it. The Justice Dept was already involved on the day the President was asked that question!

BK-3328579

The fact that he said ANYTHING was biased. When have you heard him come out and be critical of Black on White or Black on Black or White on White Crimes ??? Answer : NOT!! And AUTOMATICALLY he brought in the JUSTICE DEPARTMENT....i.e., Hate Crime.

==========================================================

What about girl on girl love crimes???

He, like everyone of us DOES have the authority. You are the one that needs a lesson, specifically in reading and comprehension. Read the constitution, sorry there aren't any pictures.

www.gzlegalcase.com/ The donation option will be up soon according to the site.

Jack, I'll help you in donating to Mr Z, I know you don't have a lot of money, so why don't you go around the trailer park there and collect as much as you can from people that think like you. When you get all you can get, don't try to count it, just get back in touch with me and I'll tell you where to send it. I'm a member of the NRA, I carry a weapon, I'm a retired Marine, I didn't go to Viet Nam but 3 out of 4 ain't bad, so go get the money together bro and we are going to free Mr Z.

Kota-1561269,

Has anyone seen Martins' facebook page?

Of course, you know that was a fake FB page, right?

How do you know he attacked someone?

Golfsleft, we have seen the police reports, the bloody head photo and heard from witnesses.

The police reports that only have GZ's word, the fact that someone saw a miniscule portion of the altercation and injuries. None of that proves that TM attacked GZ. All it proves is that they were in a fight and at some point TM got the better of GZ. When you have a witness that saw the actual attack, then you claim that it is a fact that TM attacked GZ. Otherwise it just as easily could have been GZ who attacked TM. All you people that claim that GZ was attacked by TM are going on his word alone. The 911 tapes do not prove that he turned around and went back to his vehicle. A person that was going back to their vehicle to meet the police would not need the police to call him when they arrive so that he can direct them to his location. That alone makes me have second thoughts about whether or not he is telling the truth about going back to his vehicle.

A person that was going back to their vehicle to meet the police would not need the police to call him when they arrive so that he can direct them to his location.

George was not parked AT the mailboxes. His truck was slightly down/up the road. There was also discussion of Georges HOME address. That MAY have confused George as to where the police were going to arrive. The police MAY have been coming in through the back entrance. Had George made it back to his truck it is CONCEIVABLE that when the police arrived at the mailboxes and called he would have told them to look left and flashed his lights so they could find him.

I guess no white guys ever raped and murdered.

Got it all figured out, do you? You must have been at the scene. Tell us what happened, please.