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© Jonathan Alcorn / Reuters / REUTERS
Ana Casas Wilson, who has cerebral palsy, sits in the living room of her South Gate, Calif. in December 2011. Wells Fargo has completed foreclosure on the home and eviction could be imminent, but Wilson refuses to leave, and argues that the foreclosure was unecessary.
A woman engaged in a bitter battle with Wells Fargo over foreclosure of her southern California home was arrested late Thursday at the tony residence of the bank's CFO in San Marino, where she and dozens of supporters were protesting.
Ana Casas Wilson, 49, who lives in the working-class neighborhood of South Gate, faces eviction from her childhood home. Like many people who have been through foreclosure, she says that the bank wrongly denied her a loan modification and moved to foreclose even when she was able to catch up.
In an action that is becoming increasingly common, Wilson has taken her complaint public and her protest directly to bank officials. In Thursday’s protest, with at least 80 supporters, she attempted to deliver her mortgage payment directly to Tim Sloan, the top financial officer for Wells Fargo. In addition to protesting the foreclosure, the group was challenging an ordinance created last year making it harder to picket in this wealthy enclave.
"People are deciding to take this stand that was previously a little unthinkable," said Peter Kuhns, with the Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment, which helped organize this and other "home defense" actions. "They are risking arrest, refusing to leave, getting their families involved and putting themselves out there."
Many people are shedding the sense of shame of foreclosure, which kept most people silent in the past, even if they didn’t think they had done anything wrong, he said.
"More and more people are standing up and willing to go public because there is no other remedy and putting public pressure on the bank," said Kuhns.
Wells Fargo did not respond directly to Wilson's situation, but provided a statement in response to queries about her.
"Wells Fargo works very hard to keep customers in their homes whenever possible," said the statement, sent by Jennifer Langan in corporate communications. "We review our customers for a variety of modification options, from HAMP, HARP, HAFA and through our own proprietary programs. Despite these efforts, if a customer is 16 or more months delinquent, it can be extremely difficult to recover."
Some homeowners who have taken this high-profile approach in their fight against foreclosure, enlisting the support of protesters from the Occupy movement and housing activists, are finding success at it.
Occupy movement targets Wells Fargo shareholder meeting
The case of Rose Gudiel, reported by msnbc.com last year, is one example. In October, Gudiel was hunkered down in her home, surrounded by supporters, awaiting eviction. But at the eleventh hour, lender Fanny Mae canceled the eviction notice and offered her a loan modification, enabling her to keep the home.
Peter Kuhns, ACCE
Ana Casas Wilson, sitting, and supporter Rose Gudiel demonstrating in front of the home of Wells Fargo CFO Tim Sloand on Thursday.
Many similar foreclosure battles are under way nationwide, with support from a movement called Occupy our Homes.
Wilson, who has cerebral palsy, lives with her husband, who works as a school janitor, her teen son and her mother, who helps care for her. She has worked as a court reporter, and as an advocate for the disabled.
The trouble covering the mortgage started when she was treated for breast cancer in 2009, and her husband’s income declined as a result of cutting hours to help take care of her. They got behind, but their income stabilized several months later. By then, the bank had moved into foreclosure proceedings and would not accept her payments or discuss ways to catch up, Kuhns said.
The implication in Wells Fargo's statement that Wilson was 16 months behind is misleading, says Kuhns, because for most of that time, the bank refused to take her payments.
Thursday’s protest was on Wilson’s behalf, and it was more generally challenging a San Marino ordinance adopted last November – just a few weeks after a protest of predatory lending practices on Sloan’s front lawn. That demonstration, involving about 100 protesters, was peaceful and ended without incident, the Los Angeles Times reported.
Under the statute, picketers must keep 150 feet from a target residence, or 75 feet from the curb adjacent to the home, whichever is farther.
"The purpose of the ordinance is not to reduce picketing, but to protect the people who are the victims of picketing," police Chief John Schaefer told the Times when it was passed. "We're a prime target. We have a lot of people who fit the profile to be the victim of this type of crime."
Video from the protest posted by the San Gabriel Valley Tribune shows protesters carrying signs and chanting "Wells Fargo, shame on you!" in the street in front of the home.
Wilson is shown crossing a police cordon in her wheelchair to deliver a check to Sloan. She knocks several times, but gets no answer.
"He's embarrassed," Wilson tells the Tribune. "That's why he won't come out. ... He knows that what they are doing is wrong."
Wilson was arrested under the anti-picketing statute, after protesters and police faced off for about two hours. She was released about an hour later and is expected to appear in court in early June.
"The leaders of Wells Fargo and the members of their family should be afforded the right to feel safe in their private residence and we encourage all organizations choosing to demonstrate at private residences to abide by the law for the safety of the general public," the Wells Fargo statement said.
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Leave a Comment:
Of course, her sign says "Occupy" ...
At least her sign is honest! Your's says 'truth'! What a lie.
What profile - wealthy bank CEO's? And what crime are they a "victim" of?
Pardon me, Chief Schaefer, but I don't think the people being picketed are the "victims" here.
Thomas Jefferson said, “If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.”
This is why Ron Paul is becoming so popular, because this is our future if Romney or Obama continue on our path of economic destruction.
Just another note, the FED is actually a privately owned bank and NOT actually part of the government (despite popular belief).
If she can pay back payments she should be able to stay.
So, now it's a crime "peaceably to assemble to petition for redress of grievances?" In San Marino, China, Iran, Russia and all the other places where people are not free.
There are gated communities which are not accessible to the public where any number of these high-powered executives can go and live.
IMHO, if taxpayers are paying to keep-up the roads and sidewalks in San Marino, then those same taxpayers should be able to occupy them! San Marino is full of B.S.!
And what's wrong with that, Sees? The complaint is perfectly VALID.
@Derek - Try doing a little fact checking before you cut and paste talking points. The quote you attribute to Jefferson was never uttered or written by him, it is a pure fabrication. This is pretty obvious since the word deflation was not used with regard to currency until 1920.
The new protest ordinance is clearly designed to keep protesters far enough away from people's homes so that they can safely come and go without risking running someone over trying to get out of their driveway.
There is not much on the specifics of the foreclosure case, but it does sound like Wells Fargo was rushing to foreclose when these people were trying to bring their loan current.
I wonder what would have happened if they had stayed current on their mortgage in the first place? Oh, I know, nothing! You don't hear this happening to people who are current on their loans.
Typical Occupy BS. Find someone else to blame for their own behavior.
The CFO, the chief and the idiots that passed the law should all be jailed for being stupid and feeling they are 'above it all' ..... we are really becoming a'Nation of Sheep'..just as the book says.
Norm903 - Did you read the article? How their problem came about? The banks and their executives in this country are vampires. They are pretty much all the same because they have developed a culture where only people with their mindset might advance in the banking world. Well Fargo, BofA, and all the rest of the big banks have come to be enemies of middle class America. They have no allegiance except to their own wealth. CFO Sloan and others should be taunted everywhere they go until his banking buddies and him stop the rape of the working classes of this country.
So the bank will foreclose, sell the house for 20% of its worth, take the loss, and write it off as a bad debt to lower their tax bill. It's all about money and Wells Fargo can run their ads about "relationships" but it's all about the MONEY !! Veto on this bank like I fired BOA and went to the local bank, this is BS..........
Bill Crane: Why does it matter how it came about? There is a legal contract and she is in violation. What difference does it matter otherwise? If you are so concerned why don't you pay off her obligation as opposed to pointing to someone else (the bank) to do it.
Definition of tainted money: Money that "taint" yours; easy enough to spend when it isn't yours, isn't it. I doubt the bank shareholders are so cavalier with their money as you would be with it.
Welcome to the future with a Mitt presidency. Careful what you vote for.
This is so typical, the banks steal money from people and with that money they buy the cops so that people they stole the money from can be arrested. Am I the only one to see something very wrong with this scenario? America used to be a free country until the early 1980s, that’s when Republican politicians in Washington, D.C. and all around the country sold us all out and released the forces of greed and excess so they could prey on the American people. Now the cops arrest the victims instead of the real criminals, the bankers. Isn't it interesting that an "ordinance was created last year making it harder to picket in this wealthy enclave" Welcome to the new ‘conservative’ America..... How do you like it so far?
norm903 - The difference is that she hit hard times through no fault of her own and she tried to make it up. She is not a freeloader who just didn't feel like paying the mortgage anymore for one reason or another. She tried. I have no sympathy for freeloaders and lazy people. She is neither.
norm903 post 1.14
There seems to be little doubt that you support the bankers in this "legal" theft. There's also little doubt that you will be voting "Republican" this fall. But remember pal, what goes around comes around and one day you might be in the cross hairs of one of these greedy SOB's and then you'll regret you took their side.
@norm903
And, I wonder if you'll be as smug and crass if/when someone you love develops cancer...and falls behind on their mortgage as this woman did?
Complete BS!
Banks/lenders have taken possession of homes where payments were 100% up-to-date.
Banks/lenders have foreclosed on homes where NO payments were due...because the loan was satisfied and homeowner owned the home OUTRIGHT!
And banks/lenders with ABSOLUTELY NO LEGAL CLAIM to properties have taken possession of them illegally.
Google is your friend...try it sometime.
Typical anti-Occupy BS....long on bluster...short on accuracy.
She's not blaming the bank ...or anyone else...for her behavior. She's expecting the bank to follow the laws of the state...and their own lending/foreclosure rules in how it resolves her situation.
@NFIL you are hearing one side of the story and assuming it is everything more than likely this story like so many other shas two sides with both parties responsible for some blame. The best way to handle this matter is to allow forclosure, have the bank right off the debt and get this person into a home they can afford. This person should never have taken out the loan and the bank should never have supplied it. But just like Wells Fargo is going to take a hit the client must as well.
@norm the stinking vile a$$hole scumbag.
I hope you get cancer, lose your home, the hospitals throw you out on the street for not being able to pay your insurance because you cant work, and I hope someone gives you a curb job, as you die a slow painful death on the sidewalk You deserve it, and I don't care is my comment gets collapsed.
oh sure, everyone plans on having cancer, Im sick of heartless dolts like you.
Hers hoping the bank takes you house and gets away with it .
I guess you hadnt noticed they said they try an keep people in their houses. this story proves otherwise.
@sboon398
You really are illiterate aren't you, READ THE ARTICLE, maybe go take some reading comprehension classes before you open your mouth. That is her CHILDHOOD HOME, she didn't buy it, she took a loan against it.
Wells Fargo are just heartless greedy scumbags, whose greed and ill will to fellow Americans, will hopefully come full circle and bite them in the a$$
I am so sick of you heartless dirtbags.
These are peaceful demonstrations. I wonder what will be next when these types of demonstrations fail?
Something is missing from the story...she is 49 and this is her childhood home...mortgage loans back then were only made for a maximum term of 30 years...why is it when MSNBC runs one of these stories they don't give us all the facts?
GOP Scotus said, Corporation is People! that's why ,We the People has to bail them?
If People are Corporation ,Bail the People Now as well!
What will be next? I have an idea. Because of Stand Your Ground, the exec will feel threatened and send out the butler, maid, chauffeur or gardener or maybe all of them, to murder the protesters! Even if the state does not have a Stand Your Ground, the Bank Man will figure out how to have his Autocratic or Plutarchal gun sucking NRA buddies, from the cop on the beat, to the judges, to the politico's, rule against the Right to Assemble. Oh wait, it is illegal now? Get the guns and protect your Mr. Master Sir, the peasants are revolting!
Better issues are:
- Who is going to protect homeowners from predatory banks such as Wells Fargo?
- Is Wells Fargo acting in accordance with government loan modification guidelines?
- On the auction block, is this home worth more to this bank, than the current mortgagee's loan payments? If this is true, is this the reason why Wells Fargo is determined not to accept Mrs. Wilson's check?
The government funded programs so that homeowners can pay their mortgages and stay in their homes. The goal is to allow paying families to remain in their houses, not kick them out.
Hopefully, the media coverage will cause this bank to rethink it's cruel position and back down.
Bloggit #1.25
What did J.F. Kennedy say? "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
Wow, must have touched a nerve with the non[productive class.
We are a nation of laws, a capitalist country. Take a loan, pay it back, and all is well. Life throws us all curves and of course I feel bad for the woman, but consider the alternative: the bank does nothing for any and all hardship cases and goes out of business. Then who will loan all of you money when you need a loan?
Or, will you simply expropriate the wealth of the productive class? But consider the alternative: you expropriate the wealth of the productive class and there is nothing left to take from others. At that point what do you do, turn on yourselves?
No, siree, Norm. They won't turn on themselves. They will come for you and your fellow bankster apologists in the middle of the night, and foreclosure will be the last thought on your mind. Ever take a ride in a tumbrel?
"The purpose of the ordinance is not to reduce picketing, but to protect the people who are the victims of picketing," police Chief John Schaefer told the Times when it was passed. "We're a prime target. We have a lot of people who fit the profile to be the victim of this type of crime."
Why is it that I just don't believe this guy. Maybe he's auditioning for the post of Presidential Press Secratary. The number one job requirement is the ability to tell a massive lie with a straight face and expect people to believe it.
Protect the rich! because they"re so good to us!
She had the money to pay, norm...so why is she in violation?
Wild Bill
Do you ever wonder if that isn't exactly what they want--an excuse for martial law and the final repudiation of the Constitution and Bill of Rights?
Nerm Nine-0-Three, and before you ask, yes I am capable of using spell-check. Anyway, a nation of Laws.
OK, like the Jim Crow laws or Prohibition? Or maybe something a little more modern, like, Virginia Vaginal Probe/Violation or the Michigan Putsch/Tyranny scheme. Well maybe Show me your Papers or Disenfranchising anything that looks Democratic. Or how about you can't get married and if you are, sex is only for procreation? Been on the books, are on the books and trying to get on the books AGAIN!
I do not want a damn thing that you claim as yours unless given willingly and if you do want to give it, I am suspicious and disinclined to accept and that goes double for your Sound Bite puking opinion!
i can't really say i have any sympathy for this woman or anyone in her situation. i find her sign "Predatory Loan" quite hilarious.
help me understand this, the home equity loan she took out on the house (i presume that's what she has) wasn't "predatory" in nature when she signed the paper because home prices were going up but now that prices have fallen to the point where easy money can no longer be had, it's suddenly predatory?
how is it that an ex-court-reporter is intelligent enough to garner this kind of publicity but wasn't savvy enough to hire a lawyer to review the loan documents?
i also find it hard to believe that she needed both her mother and her husband to care for her during the cancer treatment.
this spoiled, "I-do-what-I-want-because-I'm-in-a-wheelchair" attitude more than justifies the arrest. i also hope they'll throw her in self-entitled behind in jail for a few months where perhaps she will learn to be a more responsible member of society.
Patter123
Yeah I thought about it but they seem to be getting away with shredding the constitution without having to point a gun at anybody.Just wrap it up in the flag and sell the people out. Like the "Patriot act". I think it was Sinclair Lewis that said "when fascism comes to America it'll be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Norm is a total troll, don't you know that? After all, he'd perfer she die from cancer than be late on payments for the purpose of treatment or trying to take care of someone.
Yes, Norm, a contract IS a contract. BUT when you try to pay tthat contract and they won't even take your money, whose fault is that? Certainly not her or her family now is it, troll?
Besides, Norm, only bad people get cancer and can't pay their bills, right? Good people DON'T get cancer, do they, Norm? Good people don't lose their jobs either, eh Norm? Only bad people, right?
Shows what a REAL troll and bastard you really are, eh Norm? A perfect example of what a human being is NOT to be.
Mark, for an intellectual, I am glad you Presume, PRESUME!!!!
Let us use definition 1
to accept that something is almost certain to be correct
even though there is no proof of it
However let us use 3 for fun
to behave so inconsiderately, disrespectfully, or
overconfidently as to do something without being entitled or qualified to do
it
Take your best shot Brain Trust!
Capitalism applied with greed in mind (profit only, pure) comes to this. The CEO and CFO live in pure luxury and you can go to hell. NICE. The value of life, nothing, the value of me winning at all cost, scr@w you. I have more right to life than you. Can you people finally see that competition amongst us is artificial and the results intended for the few. Wake up people. Economic slavery at it's best. Americans eating americans.
No norm, you have not upset the "non[productive" (I'll type it correctly for you) nonproductive class. I am educated, I have traveled, I hold down a full time job, and I am in the process of starting up my own business(not my first business).
I am just not a heartless pig, she tried to pay and get caught up but the bank refused the money, they wanted to steal the property.
I actually feel sorry for you, you have no empathy for your fellow man, and you wallow in ignorance.
I have a friend at work we have a lot of common interests and get along well, we have learned to accept our different "views" and accept that we just disagree on some things, and that wont change, even though we will listen to each others points of view. He is stubborn and has views much like yours, and unfortunately is unable to see the bigger picture.
About 6 weeks ago he was diagnosed with cancer, he has had surgery and is undergoing chemo. He starts back at work on Monday on a limited schedule while undergoing chemo, he has a weakened immune system because of the chemo. He will be in contact with the general public and people that also have to work while they are sick, they buy supplies from us. EVERYONE in his household works to help pay the bills(he didn't buy beyond his means, the cost of living has just gone up so much in the last decade), but without him his mortgage is in jeopardy(he has never missed a payment or been late on a payment) so he is going to try push himself through the illness.
I have family in the medical field and have discussed the situation with them. In all likelihood the pressure of possibly losing his home along with trying to work through the illness will cause the cancer to win, and this will likely kill him.
He has done everything right, has been with the company for over twenty years, a multi billion, multi national corporation, they don't care, even after 20+ years of dedicated service. So he will fight like hell to keep a roof over his family's head. I just hope he has enough life insurance so the family doesn't lose their home.
I will go out on a limb and say you are a right wing conservative and call yourself a Christian(when its convenient or fits your agenda). You could wake up tomorrow and find your whole world has changed and you are suddenly walking a mile in these peoples shoes. So I will finish with two sayings. But by the grace of God go I(or you), and you are your brothers keeper.
Derek-908696 @1.3
Jefferson never said that. It would have been difficult for him to considering he had been dead for over 100 years when it first appeared.
If you cannot afford your home, then you need to downsize and stop blaming all others for your inability to pay your mthly fees to own a home.
I bought a home in a small town in Iowa for 20k cash. Did another 22k in upgrades and am very happy and pleased with my little home and property. I don't need to go in debt trying to buy an over-sized and overpriced home in CA or anywhere else.
My home is nice and livable, and I love it. I do miss the California restaurants, but that's pretty much it.
My home is paid-n-full. that's the smart way in doing things, and if this woman cannot afford her mthy payments, then learn to get a smaller home or apartment.
The last upgrade I did to my home was having my tub/shower removed and installed a large walkin shower only. This way I don't have to worry so much falling in the bathroom trying to get in or out of a tub/shower when I get old.
AK it does not matter anymore. If you miss even one payment the banks jump on your ass, or at least most do. Our neighbors across the street had a WF mortgage. They missed one payment and within another 3 weeks they were forced our of their home. Our next door neighbors had one with BoA. BoA was a bit more lenient, they were behind but had paid off half of the back fees when they went to fully pay it off BoA would not accept it stating some flippant answer and when they paid the mortgage payment for the following month they were notified they were in non-payment and BoA foreclosed on them.
What the ??? What's a "predatory loan"? LOL..... omg
What about her right to her home? If you make every effort, then why did Wells Fargo refuse her payments so she would go so far in debt? Another prime example that the banks own the police and the wrong person was arrested.
Let me get this straight. She believes that she has every right for the banks to approve her loan modification 100%? Just ignore the original loan contract just because her finances changed?
I got denied a car loan for 30k half a year ago. Maybe I should picket my bank just because I was wrongly denied for lack of credit history.
If you read the article, it said the the bank makes every effort to help the person with the loan. It is obvious they did not in her case. In fact she tried to make payments as soon as possible which was only a couple months late, but the bank would not accept her payment. Then when it came to light in the media, they claimed she was 19 months overdue. Yea, because they refused to accept payments. What side are you on, the banks? Hope you don't miss a payment or two.
.. Face it folks .. if you fall on hard times here in America or any where else in the world .. nobody at the bank will or can help you .. they may sympathise with you but the rules protect the share holders not the individual .. that is a fact of life ..didnt we learn anything from the great depression ....them who have get .. them that dont wont .. with out a voice the have not will get less .. while the money talks and gets more ..the louder the voice the more you get .. remember corporations are people and they have a loud voice
JS you are about but Jefferson did write -
We can blame the banks for this mess, we can blame the homeowners for this mess, we can blame everyone for this mess. What it boils down to is greed on every ones side.
The wannabe homeowners wanted more home than they could afford, the banks made terms that looked great on the surface, real-estate agents wanted more commissions and tried to sell higher prices, all you share holders who own stock or mutual funds that hold bank stock, homeowners selling their home for more than it was worth, your local government for raising real-estate valves to generate more taxes, I can go on and on, but . . .
The only people who really need to get help are the ones where the banks malicously went after people, elderly, minorities, and the blantinly stupid. The average person who bought a home was smart enough to read the paper work or at least have it read by a trusted person. The same for student loans, you sign on the dotted, you made a contract. Live with it!
When we bought our house and had to fire one real estate agent, and fight with another and mortage lender for 1 - to even view a house in the price range we were comforable with - 2 - get a tradional loan none of the fancy crap they were pushing and we were lucky we didn't have a greedy seller, the worked with us on several issues.
And shouldn't Ms. Wilson be afforded the same right? Oh, wait, this is America, where all people are not created equal. (Even though the Teapublicans yell "Constitution" the loudest.) Those who mismanage their financial institutions with predatory lending, credit default swaps, derivative and liquidity issues, then receive taxpayer funded bailouts, (that don't have to be paid back) should be afforded the opportunity to live in peace, in their own home. While those who bailed out those with bad behavior should be denied the same right, to live in peace, in their own home, even when they work diligently to overcome their own obstacles and become current on their debt!
as of August 2009
The auto bailouts are about paid off.
That's why this entire system sucks!!
Way to go Wells Fargo! How many 5 year ARMS are in their 8th year because you have refused to refinance. After all there are extra pennies to be made. We are not a nation of money grubing arseholes... or maybe we are. If you borrowed with Freddie Mack or Fannie Mae, there are the HARP rules that assist people to keep their homes, but not Wells Fargo! Bank loans need to come with warning labels.
I love the smiling happy people on the Wells Fargo advertisments for loans. What a ruse. Frankly, Wells Fargo doesn't give a shiit about its borrowers.
I cannot stand the idiots on this page who make the comments about affordability. When people buy a home, it is to have a shelter for themselves and family. The banking system has turned it into financial craps shoot instead.
The banks make the financial rules and for companies like Wells Fargo, their is no mercy. It is a sad irony that there are homeless, hard working people, and empty homes because the banks can't squeeze a few more bucks out of hard pressed people. Perhaps we need to revisit the rules that so heavily favor the banking system.
The recent housing investment disaster is 100% due to the banks, but they have made the rules so they are exempt from being the victims.
Bankers, pornographers, and drug dealers seem poised to make a killing on the decline of America. I worry the pendulum will stop and start to swing too fast towrd the left.
Antistupidity: Sorry for the typo, the error was unintentional. But then your name should be spelled Anti-stupidity. Hilarious error on your part! You can't make this stuff up!
Still waiting for someone to invite her and her family to move in with them or start up a collection to buy her a new house...waiting...waiting...crickets. Lots of people make bad business deals or get into trouble through no fault of their own. Sad, but how does it become the responsibility of the bank to let her walk. If they do you can be sure people will come out of the woodwook with their own hard luck stories and ask for relief as well.
Again, sorry for her situation, but it is her responsibility, not the banks. Everyone has a story. Sort of reminds me of the Clint Eastwood movie, High Plains Drifter, when after the hotel is evacuated the reverend talks about how terrible it is and how the townspeople will open up their homes to the disenfranchised "at no more than usual hotel rates."
If you are so outraged drop the keyboard, pick up a pen, and write her a check. Spend your own money, not that which does not belong to you.
@Norm903,
I think the major issue here is that corporations (Fed-Reserve), and the Constitution don't mix very well.
To all the Norms out there...
It must be so easy to sit behind your computer and ridicule those pathetic individuals who are suffering from medical and financial hardships in the world today. How dare they not pay their mortgage when they are battling cancer and enduring the countless hours, days, weeks, months of painful chemotherapy..
Are you f**king kidding me? Did you wake up without a soul or brain one day and decide to dismiss your humanity? God forbid if you ever have these horrible life trials at some point in your existence here on earth, I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.. Although, sometimes people like yourself could benefit from something like this.. It would bring you back down to planet earth and make you see things from a much different perspective.. Maybe then you'd think twice about spouting off such ridiculous sh*t, I'd bet you would actually sympathize with individuals like this woman, instead of criticize them.
Humble yourself, before it is done for you.
2 WRONGS don't make a RIGHT and I don't think this is a proper "Protest", at all, because this is a Private Residence and not an "Institution", such as The White House, which is also a "residence", but not a "Private" residence, per se; as this is. This Demonstration seems nothing more than an "Epitome" showing of shamefully Prejudicial "Contaminated Direct Democracy", at its worst. (side note: [Democracy] doesn't prejudicially discriminate to [target to profile and single out] a "Constitutionally Protected Individual")
I really think this is a wrong use of Free Assembly Rights, even WITH the ordinance, because the Ordinance is still allowing an "Individual" to be targeted to be profiled, singled out, prejudicially judged to be singularly accountable, responsible and liable and convicted to suffer the consequences of such within the Privacy of his own home, that is separate from his Company, as a Business, and what that Business is doing.
If he's the accountable, responsible and liable one, he should be specifically "Individually" named as such in a Lawsuit to the Court. This is no better than, and no more legal than the State of Arizona enacting "their own" Immigration Laws, to take matters that "affect ALL" into their own hands, instead of directly suing the Federal Government, in a Court of Law, (in a Nation of Laws).
Foreign countries like Russia and China didn't have to use their military to conquer us they have been and are doing it the "civilized" way they, through our own economy, are buying us out. And the big corporations don't care about freedom, all they want is money, bunch of no principle, no honor or integrity having, cheapa$$, sorry excuse for human sellouts!!!!!! Lower than sewer scum turds!!! I really hope but extremely doubt that the low lifes read what I think of them and if I had half the chance I have the cajones to tell them and I would. I don't give a fck what they think, 'cause their opinion counts for what? Do we care what turds think? No we flush 'em down the toilette. Which is what should happen to scum bags that do people like they did and are doing to this lady.
If Obama just would of been smart enough to let these banks fail instead of bailing Wells Fargo (Crude ba-sta-rds) out we wouldnt be in this pickle..
Bill wrote:
Welcome to the present with Obama as President, I guess you werent careful enough.
tjohn, I agree. It seems odd, that a bank can have the troubles that many of them did, they run to the government to get tax payers money to get them out of the trouble they put themselves into, yet, when the same tax payers who helped bailout these dipstick bankers have a problem, what are they told? Oh, you put yourself into this mess, so, sorry, we can't do a thing for you. When I read other people saying, "it's all about money", this is the truth, and nothing more. The courts saying that corporations are people is, I have to say, the most idiotic thing that ever came from the minds of the justices, ever! Maybe we should check the bank accounts of these same justices, and see where their money comes from(money trail), the people(real people), or the corporations(banks included). It only stands to reason, a self proclaimed person(corporation) has no real heart, and they prove this over and over each day.
The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (AKA...the bank bailout) was singed by George W. Bush....not Barrack Obama.
Blaming our current "pickle" on a 1st term junior Senator is patently ridiculous...or horrifically under-informed...or both.
Our "pickle" is not singularly attributable to any one person or party.
Tcola: Whom do I ridicule in any of my posts besides Anti-stupidity whose screen name is Antistupidity (no hyphen) and criticized a typo?
I feel sorry for the lady and her family but my sorrow for them doesn't translate into an obligation for a third party to pay her bill. And for those who say, "but she wanted to pay her bill" the problem is that apparently it was too late in the process to pay. She signed a contract, violated it for tough, personal reasons, and now has to pay the proverbial price. That is capitalism, that is the rule of law. If anyone wants to bail her out, be it a charity or an individual on this thread there are no rules to preclude it, just don't be in a hurry to spend someone else's money, in this case the shareholders of the bank.
No ridicule, it is the basis and foundation of our society. Why are so many people having a problem with these facts? Has the government really turned so many of you into entitlement minded, free cheese eating non-contributors? (now THAT was ridicule, lol)
Wow! all the crybaby's playing the victim card are out in force today again.
Geeez... You are in a free society, you make choices, you sign contracts, and you are responsible for those obligations. But not the “I’m the victim Pinko-Socialists”, noooooo... who feel they have the right to shun self-responsibility and have Big Brother Gubment ALWAYS clean up their mess after they are tired of playing the responsibility game. Whaaa... Whaaa. Banks are big bad people against wittle me. It’s not fair they're trying to hold me to my promise. Freedom's not fun anymore when I have to be accountable for my choices/actions! I don’t want to play this game anymore! Please Uncle Sam... Please make those Big Bad Scary Banks go away! Whaaaa... Whaaa... !
Hauser Aspen 1.34
In your sarcasm you have inadvertently spoken the truth. You should think well of the wealthy because it is they that pays for all the entitlements that losers like you get. That 1% pays 37% of all the taxes so you can get all your free stuff.
Really...which "third party" would that be?
She's trying to make the payments herself.
The bank is (and has been) refusing to accept her payments.
This story is about a protest...wherein she went to the CFO's house and tried to personally deliver a payment...which he refused.
Where has she asked a third party to "pay her bill"?
On the contrary!
I'll try to make this as simple as I can...The. Bank. Won't. Accept. Payments. On. Her. Mortgage. From. Her. Or. Anyone. Else. No. Charity. Is. Therefore. Possible.
What price...proverbially or otherwise....did Wells Fargo pay when it violated banking regs...and needed a bailout to remain solvent in 2008? Was that Capitalism? Privatize the profits...socialize the losses...right?
First, it's already been demonstrated...repeatedly...that WF and other lenders have NOT followed the "rule of law" in how they've processed foreclosures.
Second, the aggressive, short-sighted business practices on the part of banks which helped create the (alleged) need for the bank bailouts....were also indicative of capitalism, and fell within the rule of law...how'd that work out?
Just because it falls within the confines of capitalism or the rule of law...doesn't mean it's a solid, smart business practice.
Since you're so concerned w/ WF stockholders (of which I am one) ...let me ask:
How is NOT collecting a mortgage payment in the best interests of WF or its stockholders? Collecting a payment won't stop the foreclosure from moving forward...but it will reduce the write down the bank will take on the loss.
And, how is selling the house at a HUGE LOSS (current market value is FAR less than the $365K she owes)... instead of modifying her loan...in the best financial interests of WF or its stockholders?
Widewillie, I am glad to answer your questions, but can we first agree that your assertion that since there have been times WFC was in violation of the law that negates her responsibility to uphold the law of contracts is specious and disingenuous; since when do two wrongs make a right?
At some point after the holder of the loan was delinquent the bank decided the loan was uncollectable and exercised its rights as enumerated in the contract. When the debtor decided, "uh oh, they mean business, I'd better pay up" it was too late, the process was in motion. Can you imagine the difficulty for any business the size of WFC working without process and procedure, particularly as heavily regulated as they are? In short, she had passed the point of no return.
To protest in front of the CFO's residence is inappropriate, particularly when the CFO has zero to do with her predicament and is not responsible for collecting on the past due debt. That debt is being handled by someone else, perhaps even a third party. It makes for a good headline and picture but isn't relevant beyond trying to terrify the poor man's family (OK, here we go, "how about her 'poor family'"). It is one thing to picket a business or institution, another to show up at someone's home IMHO.
Actually norm Antistupidity is a name I chose to use, being a name I can hyphenate it if I choose to, if I choose not to that is my choice, there is no correct spelling of a name, it is a choice, like Jon or John, or Sean Shaun or Shawn, or Karen or Caron, Bryan or Brian, Lynn or Lyn, Steven or Stephen, Mark or Marc etc etc.
And yet...you didn't answer a single one? Not even the softballs?
I'd readily agree to this...had I made an assertion even remotely resembling what you claim?
I pointed out that your application of the "rule of law" was laughably one-sided....and that not every business practice which falls under the heading of "Capitalism"...is smart, logical or prudent...and I demonstrated that your concern for WF stockholders was disingenuous...AT BEST.
But no where in my post did I assert...imply... or even hint... that their violation of the law negated her contractual responsibilities.
Since never. Again, show me where I've claimed otherwise. I've simply advocated for smart business practices instead of hiding behind ineffective polices and practices...or spouting platitudes about the "rule of law"!
Yes, I can imagine. I am a process and procedure oriented person.
But, in this market...any "process or procedure"...which favors dispossession and foreclosure sale over accepting payments and loan modifications is NOT in the best interest of any involved party.
I disagree. It was likely an ineffective protest...hell, it was probably a complete waste of time...but there's nothing inappropriate about it.
That's entirely irrelevant....and not necessarily true.
When you have a problem at a restaurant ...and the staff is unable or unwilling to accommodate you...do you demand to see the cook who screwed up your meal...or the restaurant manager?
Going up the chain of command seeking resolution is perfectly appropriate.
Now...would you like to take a shot at addressing my question which you claimed you'd be "glad to answer"?
Wide: "How is NOT collecting a mortgage payment in the best interests of WF or its stockholders? Collecting a payment won't stop the foreclosure from moving forward...but it will reduce the write down the bank will take on the loss." - Not necessarily. The issue is bigger than one house. The risk of losing ones house is a deterrent to not paying a bill. If WFC would allow those in default to make it up at the 11th hour what is the incentive for anyone to pay their mortgage on time? Additionally, it is expensive to start and stop in the middle of mass actions, like writing and processing thousands of mortgages and foreclosures. There is a process to follow that drives out costs. Continual exceptions increases costs. Also, WFC may have contracted the foreclosures to a third party (I have no idea if this is so) and it may either be out of their hands or there is a penalty for bringing it back in house.
"And, how is selling the house at a HUGE LOSS (current market value is FAR less than the $365K she owes)... instead of modifying her loan...in the best financial interests of WF or its stockholders?" -Not knowing her finances there may be a big chance she will fall behind again and the process would have to start all over...until she couldn't wait any longer and decided to pay her bill.
We should presume the bank knows its interests better than you and allow them to run their business. As a shareholder, if you don't like it, go to the annual meeting with your own occupy sign and vote as is your right. Not everyone wins in a capitalistic society; everyone CAN, but not everyone will. Prices move up and down, and unfortunately she took ill in a bad housing market. Its a shame, but not the bank's responsibility to fix. Their responsibility is upholding the contract in the best interest of the shareholders.
Questions answered?
Norm903-
If you think I am a supporter of living off the Government, or expecting others to "pay ones way" in life, you are sorely mistaken. I am the absolute last person to support any type of bottom feeders per say. I'm a very firm believer in hard work and earning ones way. I've worked hard my entire 33 yrs on this earth, and nothing irritates me more than a person thinking they deserve a free ride.
Its just disturbing to read posts like yours having zero sympathy or compassion for other human beings.. There is a huge difference between living outside your means, getting behind on your bills, facing foreclosure and then complaining to everyone that you are being kicked out of your house to live on the streets.. In that case I 100% agree with you, their decisions got them there. Key word being decisions.
Cancer was not her decision. Cancer didn't take into consideration her and her families financial situation before attacking her. There are extenuating circumstances such as this that should be taken into consideration by banks, lenders, Government, etc. when dealing with these types of financial situatons. Does that make sense to you? I know it does to me.
Your comments are just a bit harsh towards a woman who is doing everything and anything she can to save her home due to something that was not her decision, and completely out of her control.. Like I said, its because of those extenuating circumstances that I disagree with you.
Tcola, thank you for your reasoned response.
Like you I am sympathetic to the woman. Nonetheless in life this stuff happens and usually with a poor result. That said, her "victim" behavior in picketing the CFO's house is inappropriate at best. The CFO of WFC has about as much to do with her mortgage problem as President Obama being responsible for a cranky postal worker in West Elbow, New Jersey. She and her cohorts are trying to threaten and extort by showing up at his home instead of his office.
Everyone has a story. It is not the bank shareholder's responsibility to bail her out.
I guess.
Your second response was more of a deflection than an answer....and your first relied on a truism, a misnomer, an implicit premise question and a bit of speculation. But, you did finally make an effort. Good on you for that.
Obviously it's more than "one house", Norm!
But that doesn't mean their polices are prudent or in the best interest of shareholders, the company or it's customers.
WF currently has ten thousand + properties (in CA alone) which are in some state of foreclosure. They are carrying that debt load...and are not attempting to collect from borrowers or even allowing payments from borrowers... on that debt.
And yet...immediate foreclosure, eviction and re-sale is physically impossible...because they can't handle the quantity. (And, even if they could...the market can't!)
And, plan B is basically the status quo.
Smart companies don't hide behind empty platitudes when their old policies are no longer effective...they evolve...they change.
You talk about "incentives" and "deterrents"...is allowing defaulted borrowers to continue living in their homes without making any payments... for YEARS on end...an incentive or a deterrent?
What about the bank making foreclosure threats they don't follow through on...for years...and years? Incentive or deterrent?
And yet, if a customer expresses concern about possibly losing their home ...the bank insists they can only "help"...if the customer STOPS paying their mortgage.
Lenders...including WF...mandate that borrowers be delinquent in order to qualify for their loan modification programs.
And then...once they fall delinquent (attempting to qualify for a loan mod)...the borrowers credit suffers...then the bank uses their newly downgraded credit score as a reason to deny them the modification.
Incentives to avoid default....they include:
* not ruining their credit for 7 years while watching their credit score spiral downward by 125-150 points....or more.
* avoiding the thousands (even tens of thousands) of dollars in missed payments, interest, fees and penalties which will be tacked on to the loan....if it's saved at the "11th hour" via a loan mod.
* and, they avoid the 24/7/365 stress and worry of being evicted from their home on a moments notice.
The idea that allowing some borrowers to save their homes under these circumstances will somehow encourage borrowers who are capable of paying their mortgage to stop paying ...is rather ludicrous.
If Mrs. Wilson is able to save her home...will you stop paying your mortgage?
Ok...but, the costs associated w/ carrying a MASSIVE debt load on a declining asset...and eventually repossessing and re-selling millions those assets....is arguably going to be far greater than the costs associated w/ starting and stopping administrative paperwork or making exceptions.
A handful of successful loan mods will cover the additional administrative costs of thousands and thousands of unsuccessful ones.
No, there's no guarantee that a modification will work. But, this owner has been trying to make payments which is at least a positive indicator.
And...there's also no guarantee that the next purchaser won't default on the same property...which they will have bought for a fraction of what the current borrower owes.
Ultimately...working w/ the current homeowner to maintain possession under a modified version of the current loan...at least comes w/ the possibility of upside (even if it's remote).
Whereas re-selling the property at a substantial loss (53% on average in CA)...after incurring costs...and not collecting anything on the previous debit for YEARS...doesn't.
LOL...were you in a comma from 1999-2008? That is the absolute LAST thing we should presume!
I did...it was just last week. That's one of the reason I responded to this story.
I love SF. And, I really love the large tax write off I enjoy every time I visit. :)
LOL...Norm...let it go. I neither know nor care what your preoccupation is w/ the Occupy folks...but it seems unhealthy.
I agree. I just disagree that WF's current tact in the best interest of shareholders....or anyone else.
Comment # 1 restored for clarity.
Yikes, Antistupidity. Don't do this. You are suspended for a week for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Address the issue, not the user.
norm903, don't grenade troll. You know the rules.
You are also suspended for a week.
I also have Wells Fargo. I didn't pick them by choice my mortgage was
bought and sold at least 3 times. I fell into hard times because of some
physical issues and lost my job. Not as severe as this woman, but nonetheless I
am disabled. When president Obama instituted the Making Homes Affordable
program I fought tooth and nail to be approved. There were pages and pages of
documentation required; I submitted financial statements, medical records
etc.... multiple times to WF and over and over again they asked for them. It
took over a year for them to approve the modification my interest rate was
lowered and the overdue amounts were added to the end of the loan. After all
that time and sending and resending the tons of documentation they wanted they
lowered my monthly payment just under $300. That being said, I still struggle
but the real kick in the pants is I still get mailings from WF saying I can
lower my mortgage payment to just over $500 a month...bla bla bla. Which is 1/2
of what I pay now, but when I call them and request information and help to do
this I'm told 'we gave you a modification already'. So why is it that they keep
sending me these mailings and get my hopes up to make my mortgage less of a
strain yet they deny me when I call, and why if they can offer such a reduced
mortgage payment to me now, that they didn't do it over a year ago when I
struggled to meet their documentation requirements??? I know I should be
thankful for the $300 reduction, but with the way the cost of living has
increased from food, to heating oil, to gas for my car, the reduction amounts
to nothing. Some of you who have posted your comments about homeowners who
'over extend' and all that should not throw stones because you never, and I
mean never know when difficulties, accidents, deaths etc... will destroy your
financial status. What happened to caring about your fellow man, and holding
the greedy financial institutions responsible? Shame on you that belittle those
that have fallen on hard times, America was built from the backs of the poor
and impoverished and the price they paid was for us to have a better life, and
we can't do that if the greedy banks deny us the dream of owning and keeping
our homes. our homes. I struggle daily to keep my home not for me but for my
grandchildren because there is no way my daughter will ever be able to afford
her own home. So when banks take peoples homes they not only hurt the
homeowner, they also hurt the generations to come.
It is time to revolt peacefully in a way never imagined before. We can take back control of our country and others can do the same. The only way is take the money away from the rich- completely. They won't be able to buy even a pack of gum. The rich don't support us. We support them. It is past time to use that power. The banks will be worthless. The only hitch: we have to come together as Americans and retrieve our country. Only then will the rich face what jerks and fools they have been- a little too late.
I am old enough to remember when banks would work with people under these conditions back in the early 90's. If you fell behind on your payments, but could eventually start making them again, the bank would put the late payments and fees on the "back end" of your loan. What happened to that concept? It' so much easier and cheaper for EVERYONE.
A little late to this party, but still a few thoughts:
The constitutional right to peaceable assemble and request redress of grevances applies to governments. It does not apply to protests against individuals in their homes. If the community chose to, it could set itself up as a limited access (gated) community and only allow residence and their approved guests to get in. While such protests may get you on the news, if they happened to me I would be investing in some dogs with VERY big teeth.
I do feel sorry for this woman. No doubt she had a rough time of it. I don't see anywhere in the article where it says she could make all of her past due payments current. Instead it says she asked for and was refused a modification. So, she didn't make her mortgage payments and the bank foreclosed instead of changing her loan. The bank met its obligation and now she is protesting because she didn't meet her obligation.
I know its popular to hate the banks, but Wells Fargo did not act badly in this case. There is no allegation of fraud, no allegation that its a bad loan with steeply rising rates or that the bank promised to refinance her before rates would go up. This is just a run of the mill case where she got sick, couldn't pay her mortgage and the bank chose to foreclose.
I imagine that with most people, if you end up out of work for an extended period of time, and you don't pay your mortgage, the bank will foreclose. That's the agreement you have with your mortgage company.
If you don't like that method of dealing with where you live, find someone who will let you live for free on their land, save your money and buy a home outright.
You'd think it would be in the bank's best interest to accept payments up until the very last minute. Surely that would cost them less than foreclosure proceedings? (Never mind the negative publicity.)
Not sure I follow your comment. If the person was paying, they wouldn't be foreclosing.. This article doesn't explain the financials behind her foreclosure - it's odd that it mentions "she attempted to deliver her mortgage payment directly to Tim Sloan, the top financial officer for Wells Fargo", but it doesn't mention 'which' mortgage payment she was trying to make. Was it 1 month behind, or was it 2 years behind? Hard to form an opinion either way without the actual facts.
Chris...go back and read the article. It stated that she got behind during her medical problems but then started trying to make payments again and the bank would not take the payments. Thus the reason she tried to take the payments directly to the CFO.
I have no sympathy for people who just live beyond their means, but from the details in this article this is a situation in which medical issues created the problem. A very common reason for many people forced into foreclosures. These types of foreclosures are a symptom of another problem we have in this country. That is the lack of adequate medical insurance for a large percentage of our population. I am lucky to have good health insurance. what i don't understand is those who want to deny adequate health insurance to others. if this family had adequate health insurance maybe they would have been able to keep up with the mortgage payments to begin with.
A property can go into forclosure status if they missed about 3 payments. I knew of a lender in AK who wouldn't even take partial payments. They'd be sent back AND they'd ding you for not making a payment, then try to foreclose. People were trying to pay, but the bank refused to accept ANYTHING but full payment AND wouldn't even discuss with the customers any way to make it up.
I feel for this lady. She's trying, but as usual, the bank doesn't give a @!$%#.
This is exactly why i refuse to do any business what so ever with any major bank. If everyone that is fed up with this thievery by the major banks just go to your local banks and credit unions we can rid this country of the predators within theses dishonest establishments.
If banks were being investigated for their role in the real estate meltdown, Wells Fargo should be FIRST in line. Too many times they are the bank named in mortgage shenanigans.
On the other hand, if this woman is living in her childhood home with her Mom, plus her husband and children, there had to have been some refi's going on or the property would have been paid off years ago.
Easy, so what if there were refi's? What does that have to do with anything? Besides, there's multi-generations under 1 roof. I would be there had been renovations done. Regardless, the fact that the bank REFUSED to take payments when they tried to make them and the bank refused to talk to them shows total disregard on the part of the bank. As usual.
"So what if there were refis?" you ask?
If you refinance to take equity out of your house, you're using your house as collateral in exchange for some extra spending money. Compare that to a loan that enables you to purchase a place to live--you think the two are comparable?
That's not going to work, the big banks are "too big to fail". If they start losing money, the government will just bail them out again.
To AG99, I agree. Sounds too suspicious how Wells Fargo is so anxious to foreclose on this family who is indeed ready and able to catch up on all back payments. Is it because of some underlying incentive for them to foreclose? Such as, entitlement to full payment of the mortgage balance, out of bailout money and/or mortgage insurance? There's some hidden reason when banks suddenly refuse to let homeowners catch up. I've seen this story too many times since the housing meltdown started. All these big banks are crooks.
senecafalls post 2.2
Your post is right on the money and speaks the truth. It's trully a shame that right wingers CAN'T hear your truth. These unfortunate people have been made deaf and blind by Republican propaganda for so long that now their lost and wondering a wilderness of spin and lies..
@Karen, or you are falling for a standard wieghted peice of journalism that has no attempt to actually discuss the true facts of the case. I'm not saying MSNBC is reporting her side of the story, but they certainly are not reporting on Wells fargo's side.
If people are asking for a loan modification for an amount they can afford, why do the banks not work it out? I know that some people had been asking for a modification for months and even years now and all the banks do is sit on it...Like most say, banks are either greedy or has no brains.....
sboon, the banks side doesn't matter.
Seneca,
The above facts are major problems.
A person should not have to choose between: receiving medical treatment and not dying, but because they fell behind in their mortgage payments, be tossed in the street; or paying their mortgage and staying in their home, so that more assuredly, they will die in their homes. Medical expenses are the number one reason for people declaring bankruptcy. This is a significant reason as to why America needs universal health care.
Here's an interesting point. Who said she'd be tossed in the street. If she has money to pay but the banks won't take it, I guess she can go and RENT, like the rest of us people who were smart enough not to throw our money away in a house during a massive housing bubble. People aren't getting thrown out in the streets, so quit saying that. She can RENT!
Dave, you present yourself as an oracle.
Carefully, did you read the article?
Here is an easily understandable sentence:
Definition: foreclosure: The act of foreclosing, especially a legal proceeding by which a mortgage is foreclosed.
Definition: eviction: 1. To put out (a tenant, for example) by legal process; expel.
2. To force out; eject. See Synonyms at eject.
3. Law To recover (property, for example) by a superior claim or legal process.
Wells Fargo has and is refusing to accept Mrs. Wilson's mortgage payments.
Do you think that the bank is planning to allow Mrs. Wilson and her family to remain in the house, free?
The bank is illegally solidifying its position - to evict her and her family.
How did you miss this stark point?
You stated:
Are you calling people who believe in the American dream of home ownership, "stupid?"
Mrs. Wilson did not create the "massive housing bubble."
Wall Street did.
You stated:
This home owner has Cerebral Palsy. Are you aware of her medical needs? Are you aware of the supply and demand of the rental market in her geographical area? No. Therefore, you cannot say that "she can RENT!"
You stated:
When people are evicted and/or cannot find housing, they become homeless. Although, they can be invisible, their numbers are large. They live in parks, cars and yes, on the streets.
Apparently, you have found a patch of "paradise" where homelessness does not exist.
...please let us know where that "patch" is.
You seem quit to want to snatch this woman out of her home.
Are you an employee of the bank?
quit
correction: quick.
I just can't believe all the freedom and liberty blockheads are not all over this. Where's their outrage? I guess it depends on who's free speech rights are being trampled does'nt it?
25Walker - You seem to think just because your evicted it means your homeless and on the streets. What he was saying is that if you can not make the payments because they will not accept them and not because you don't have the payments, then save them up and when it comes time for eviction, rent. You do realize the renting is an option and that eviction does not mean instant out in the streets? Any prudent person would have set the checks rejected aside, kept the money in the bank, preferably a savings account to gain interest, then when necessary to vacate, rent a U-Hal and move to a apartment. Doesn't mean you have to give up on the American dream, you just postpone it until you can regroup.
Regardless though. What the bank did was wrong.
Brenda here in Portland my sister and brother in law could not find a rental, I talked to 5 rental companies and they said everything in our area North/North-East Portland is dry.. The demand is alot greater then the supply.. It took them 2 months to find a rental and when they did it is 1300 a month because landlords know the need is greater.. Talk about truly screwed..
I hate Wells Fargo, those idiots charged me 28 dollars to speak to a live person on the phone.. Wells Fargo sent my direct deposit in to pending for 7 days because of new policy, every check i had written for my bills bounced and the bank tacked on 45 bucks a pop even though the money was direct deposited and sitting in pending.. Oh my favorite was when the teller told me I took too much money out of the bank for that day and couldn't have anymore, that i would have to talk to a live agent on their hotline (another 28 bucks) to get my limit raised.. Holy @!$%# I blew a gasket and lost my mind on the bank manager..
Yes they are a predatory bank, they will say anything to make you pay a dime.. If 1,000 people are forced to pay 30 bucks for a live chat call, that is 30,000 in their pockets. Hell I am shocked they didn't charge me to handle my money- I lied, they did, it was called a monthly maintenance fee of 15 bucks. Charged me to take my money out of other atms, pinged 3 bucks by one bank and pinged 3 bucks by my bank..
I think out of a 2,000 dollar pay check per two weeks I seen maybe half after the bank gouged me making me shell out for bounced fees (because they need to pend me), scratching my ass in their lobby fees, wearing white after labor day fees, and oh yeah not smiling while getting it without lube fees..
Mike post 2.4 - you are right. We quit doing business with the major banks and now deal strickly with the local banks. Currently the only major instatuion we so buiness with is BoA for the mortage as they keep buying other banks.
The same goes true for these big box retailers.
Calico Whispers - I understand your frustration, but wearing white after Labor Day? Come on, that needs penalized. I only dealt with Wells Fargo with an investment account, when the fees started to climb and rude customer service I moved my investments.
First mistake Calico Whispers is banking at Wells Fargo. Might as well bank at B of A. When will people learn to bank at your local neighborhood bank or a credit union. First time Wamu charged me a fee for my free checking i was in the next day and told them they are fired. They said I couldn't fire them and I laughed and said I just did. Closed all my accounts and walked out never to look back. I did the same with my credit card. The banks work for me, not the other way around. If i am not satisfied, I fire them and hire someone else. So if your still with Wells Fargo, then I say you deserve every one of those fees to talk to a live person.
senecafalls: You have a great reply. I have decent health insurance too. The sad thing is today that it is only half the battle. Maybe not even...
Each year we have to come up with a "donut hole" out of pocket expense of $1200. We start out with $750 from our employer, when it is gone we are in the "donut hole" and have to pay out of pocket. Once we get past the "hole", we are in the 80/20 portion for the remainder of the year. But if you have a serious illness, even with short and long term disability, you are only paid 66% of your regular pay. So if someone is off a month or two or even longer, that can quickly put a person in the hole. If you take some of these new high priced medications that have no generic version because the pharmacuetical companies have lobbied there way around this, that can set a person back really quickly too. I agree with you 100%. Health insurance today is almost a must have and the benefit is worth a LOT to the employee. Sadly, even with it, you can still lose it all.
Many people are quick to judge the insurance companies. It is not all of their fault. When I had a scan upper and lower abdominal for possible gall bladder issues 18 months ago, it was $6000.00. I was in the scanner 15 minutes. My relative who works for a hospital said that the radiology department keeps the hospital afloat. I can see how. I am still paying on this scan, because I was in the "donut hole" and the remaining 20% was a bill for $3000. Hopefully I will have it paid off before I need another scan, but someone with good insurance can get behind very quickly and lose it all in the blink of an eye.
senecafalls, I am just on my soapbox now. I still agree with you and loved your post. It just fires me up, and it disturbes me to see some of these other posts from folks who have obviously not needed to use their insurance or have been sick yet. Odds are stacked against them. They most likely one day will have to dip into their benefits and encounter problems paying the bills and then MAYBE they will have compassion for someone else that has gone through it and not automatically think that they are a deadbeat.
To all the Norms out there...
It must be so easy to sit behind your computer and ridicule those pathetic individuals who are suffering from medical and financial hardships in the world today. How dare they not pay their mortgage when they are battling cancer and enduring the countless hours, days, weeks, months of painful chemotherapy..
Are you f**king kidding me? Did you wake up without a soul or brain one day and decide to dismiss your humanity? God forbid if you ever have these horrible life trials at some point in your existence here on earth, I wouldn't wish that upon anyone.. Although, sometimes people like yourself could benefit from something like this.. It would bring you back down to planet earth and make you see things from a much different perspective.. Maybe then you'd think twice about spouting off such ridiculous sh*t, I'd bet you would actually sympathize with individuals like this woman, instead of criticize them.
Humble yourself, before it is done for you.
Has anyone considered that the banks pushing for the foreclosure can simply be that the lion's share of the mortgage has been paid off and if the bank forecloses they can then sell the property for a larger amount than is currently owed. Given the stunts that have been recently pulled would you put it past a bank to pull a scam like this.
Chris'12, you REALLLLLY need to read the article a little closer!!
@tcola: If there was any justice tainting the whole natural selection process, the entire board of directors at several of these banks and insurance companies would go through the pains of dealing with debilitating illnesses. The insurance company executives in particular would be periodically hauled out to face a Survivor-like experience until they got a bit more lenient about paying for old people's medications(currently one of the "best", most lauded companies is unrepentantly anal about even ordering prescriptions EXACTLY thirty days apart or paying out of pocket!). I know that I am fortunate to currently have no more serious health problems than the weight and cholesterol numbers of an average American, and not those of a Mr. Universe candidate, so the insurance battle is no laughing matter to me.
@JKLD, I totally understand why banks do not accept partial payments. If they were to accept partial payments then they would have to start over with foreclosure. I would not accept partial rent payments if a person was behind. I would begin eviction and accept NOTHING unless it was the full amount of arears.
Wells Fargo is one of the worst out there. They recently bought out a bank i have done business with since 1979. They then sent a letter out stating they owed me and no one else who had done business there for that long any loyalty. I also went with my son who was just entering collage to get a loan for a car. The price was 4500.00 and the car booked for 8200.00. They were sorry but they wouldn't loan anything under 6000.00. I could check with one of the little local banks they would probably do it. Of course the ladies who work there apologized for it saying it wasn't them it was wells fargo. Greed and theives. That describes wells fargo.
Several things aren't being told in this article. There are 3 adults in that home. It sounds like the husband was the only one working and he was having to take off work to help care for her even though her mother was living with them to help care for her. When you have limited funds you pay for the roof over your head first. I can't believe the community didn't help them when they were having medical problems. How about their local church? We need to stop living off credit as a nation. Pay as you go and these banks can't take everything you still owe for. Live within your means, stop living on credit, save for the rainy day because rain will happen.
Just Someone -
My comment was directed to "Norm903". Not sure if you misunderstood my comment, but I am 100% in support of yours. Nothing angers me more than big, greedy, big-brother type corporations that treat human beings as sheep / slaves, especially the remaining 99% of us. I hope that something changes soon, or else i'll very seriously be considering moving outside this country.
We had our original loan with one lender when we did a refi to have a better interest rate. They went bankrupt and BofA took over our loan. We continued to pay our refi amt and BofA considered that paying a partial payment because they "apparently" never got any paperwork from our original lender. We have faxed and mailed several copies of our paperwork to BofA. All of a sudden we had a notice posted on our door that our home was being foreclosed on "due to partial payments". Our name has been run through our local paper and we have been made out to be losers that can't pay our bills.....in a very small town. Not a good rep to have. We are still in our home (2 years later) and have hired an attorney. BofA wants to have us sign for a loan modification to add 30k to the back end of our loan. We didn't need a loan modification....WE WERE NEVER IN HARDSHIP. This has been a black cloud over us for 2 years. The good news is that we have 2 years worth of house payments in the bank if we are forced to walk away from our home. What a joke!!!
Considering this story, my question would be, Why aren't any people in jail for this real estate scam? I'm talking about those that wrote up stupid loans, made the deals, the bankers, appraisers, the title company, real estate sales person... Yes, those that made a lot of money off of gullible home owners...
To date, I have not heard of one being brought to justice...
Bank employees dont put anyone out in the street .. thats a fact ... Bank employees follow the rules set by their bosses .. their bosses only care about profit .. the bank teller has nothing to do with it ... the teller follows orders .. just as you do on your job .. unfortunatly this woman and a million other people like her have no voice .. no money ... to have a voice you must be able to have enough influnce to have someone listen ..Corporations are people now... Corporations have a loud voice thanks to SCOTUS.. they will be heard over all the rest ... Instead of calling our selves the United States of America .. we should call our selves Corporate America ..
something been has been lost in America...."The Spirit of Fairness"....
Well, I need to preface this opinion with I also hate big business and I agree that the rich are getting richer while the middle class disappears. That said, let's not forget that MSN & MSNBC are big business, the more traffic they get on the website, the more money they make. With the hundred of thousands of forclosures, the just happened to pick the one where they could take a picture of a woman in a wheel chair being evicted and portray it in a light that is extremely one sided and abracadabra more traffic than they can handle.
I agree that this is heartbreaking but I question the reporting. I see where she showed up at a bank employee's house (regardless of his position) she showed up at an employee's house and he wouldn't come out. Again -- whether it was just because he was scared or something more sinister -- they went to his house ... show me the picture where they are at the bank, trying to hand the payment to the appropriate person and being refused. I am a lowly blue collar worker, I have no vested interest in protecting the wealthy. That said, if an angry mob showed up at my house, I wouldn't come out. The benrfactor of getting everyone riled with this story is just another big business - MSN. Don't let them boil your blood, there is probably much more we haven't heard about this.
Most of you people are morons! She is not telling the whole truth because there is not a bank around that would Deny money. Do you realize what simple economics are. WF probably isn't even the investor, just the servicer. If you make your payments or go by the loan modification, YOU DON'T HAVE THESE PROBLEMS!! If you fight it by not paying(smart) or calling in to get more help, these things happen. You don't have the full story and you don't have 200k for your house to pay in full. If you are so worried about big banks and living outside your means, I am sure you can go by a trailer somewhere and live in it pretty cheap. You people are idiots. If you can't afford it, you don't deserve it!! Plain and simple.
25walker - you and others have missed a very simple and legal point. A contract was signed and agreed to by both parties. We don't know from the article what the bank required as a "cure" from the foreclosure. Obviously the bank seems to think that even with the new federal foreclosure rules this family won't meet the relaxed standards. To bad msnbc didn't clarify this aspect, but only more of an emotional one.
BTW...
How droll and ill informed, as obviously by herself she didn't, but the article also stated that it was her "childhood home". The article only implies that mortgage payments could not be maintained because of medical issues, not why there was still a mortgage. My childhood home was paid off years ago and is still occupied by my mom and she wouldn't even consider using its equity for anything other than to pass it on to us kids or to meet final expenses.
As for the wall st comment...
Government has always (since WWll) encouraged home ownership and since the 90's making ownership available over a broader income range as well. Then they told fanny and freddy that the government would back the loans they made. By minimizing loan risk the government on both sides of the aisle encouraged home ownership.
Banks played a part in that they rebundled the mortgages and sold them as relatively risk free assets as home prices were increasing. Even with a potential risk attached they hedged the loans made with insurance.
However, it was the consumer themselves that drove the bubble. It was their decision to buy more than they could afford or to use their homes as an ATM. All the government and banks did was to facilitate the process.
Not true at all Travis, something very similar happened to me with Wachovia.
I owned a business that went under due to the economy, and didn't take paychecks for the last 6 months of the business being open.
I missed three mortgage payments as well and was in constant communication with the bank. When I attempted to make arrangements they told me the foreclosure process had already started and there was nothing I could do. They topped that off with over $7000 of legal fees for the foreclosure.
After battling with them for over a year and dumping the money I would have given them in an escrow. I eventually e-mailed every corporate officer I could find at Wells Fargo when the merger happened. I was immediately contacted by an executive and a few months later my loan was modified and the legal fees were dropped.
I got lucky and was persistent, but it could have gone the other way.
This entire banking system from top to bottom (Federal Reserve to your local branch) is corrupt, backwards, and criminal.
Everything they do is based on credit and speculation. The Fed sets everything for our cost of living, also based on speculation. They take OUR deposits, our money, and use them to make obscene profits for the banks. And the depositors, us, can't even get a decent interest bearing account. Top that off with the banks making fortunes off of ridiculous fees they charge the customers on OUR OWN MONEY !
Err, Travis, between squeezed margins from current FED policy and dodd-frank capital requirements banks are limited in the loans they can make. Call it unintended consequences, but banks are now only interested in making low risk loans.
Wells Fargo took over Wachovia which was just as dishonest. I got fed up with those major bank @#$* and am now with a more reputable credit union. This credit union has lower interest rates on everything from homes, automobiles to credit cards. They also pay handsomely when you have a CD. They're also willing to take late payments, and allow you to catch up. Of course there are those who refuse to catch up and then they're forced to repo anything they have an interest in, but only when you're so far behind and refuse to work out a suitable recovery deal. Come on America wake up get rid of these major bank A-holes and let the good times roll. Remember the bail outs? Some of these major banks needed a face lift from the Government and got it then turned around and gave some high dollar bonuses to their top execs. BS I say. That was "our money" they gobbled up. They live the hi life we live the best we can. Will the Government bail them out again with "our money" you can bet your a- they will. Let's stop all this BS and get America back on track. After all it was the major banks that got us into this mess to begin with selling mortgages. To Travis McDaniel why don't you go live in a trailer it'd be nice n cozy and cheap too, you moron. The bank wasn't accepting her offerings so WTF! BOOO on Wells Fargo, you dishonest bast*%@. Plus the woman is disabled and required attention to meet her needs. Where in the world is your compassion Travis?
I am so angered by this entire conversation. What kind of blinders are some of you wearing? I completely identify with this family. I have been fighting BOA for 20 months. Same problem as this lady. They told us not to send in any money until the modification was completed. All the back money would be put on the back side of loan. "No worries". Guess what, the modification that was to help us with more affordable payments -- went up by $100. We could afford our home when we bought it, but now, my husband has pancreatic cancer and we have lost half our income. Not to mention the medical expenses. So will they put me in the street? Big yes they will ! The unfortunate thing about all this is my tax dollars bailed the banks out, now my government won't bail me out. I will lose my home and lose my husband all within 12 months. I would have joined her in her protest if I could have been there.
George W. Bush was warned about the housing bubble shortly after he started his first term... I don't remember the woman's name but she worked for the government... His answer to the problem was to have her fired... The banks realized how nice it would be for them to loan money on homes they knew would have to be foreclosed on... Everyone was afraid to mention that again... They get a few years worth of payments and then resale it again... Sorta like rent-to-own minus the to-own part, except the banks didn't think about what it would do to the economy... Always thought there would be more people to steal from...
Don't try to pin this on the middle-class... We work for a living... We don't own the big money businesses and we sure as the devil don't have control of the laws regarding the economy... That the uber-rich that control the big banks and finance companies...
I want to know why bank CEOs receive privacy protection from law enforcement and the rest of us get squat. Are they better or more deserving than the rest of us? I don't think so.
And I want to know why it continues to be OK for banks to lie, cheat, steal, and harass their customers and then still take the property in the end. The refusal to take payments is so they can say it's been x number of months since we received payment, we have to foreclose!
And why is it that although the banks received billions to help people in this economic and foreclosure nightmare, they continue to shove people out of their homes, sometimes literally into the streets?
What a load. Take all your money and investments away from the big banks. Join a local credit union instead.
The bank can't keep the extra money when they auction a foreclosure. What they do is make sure one of their cronies gets the house really cheap.
Brenda- Hell no, I changed to a credit union and that tiny credit union adopted big bank policies and got stupid about savings accounts.. We couldnt use our atm cards on our savings accounts after 11pm, who does that!? The credit union started to charge us bank fees and bleah bleah tried to sign up for direct deposit and the paperwork got lost at the bank three times.. That one was out the door as-well..
We finally went with USbank they seemed a little more human till they started to pull the same crap and then I threw a bloody murder fit about stupid fees and they wiped them, usbank has been decent for the last couple years.. I had CDS and money marketing accounts, savings and checking and business account with usbank till I lost my job and husband was the only worker..
8 mouths was alot to feed, 5 adopted and 3 biological kids.. I never got a dime of state support for them because I made great money the bank deemed theirs for awhile..
Carmen, I understand and couldn't agree more. PNC tried to do the same thing to me. They quoted me a rate on the phone, said it was "locked" in with no points and just a $350 appraisal fee. They sent me ESTIMATED docs to sign with the exact same info as we discussed. Then when they sent the final docs, there was no notice, no phone call, no notes and while the rate stayed the same (which is all most people look at), the APR was through the roof. They had added 2-1/2 points and $4000 in fees making over $12,000 added to mortgage amount. In other words -- like you, if I hadn't caught it, my "lower interest HARP loan" would have cost me $100 a month more, added 3 years to my mortgage and bring me closer to forclosure. They are crooks!
I called the PNC district manager and explained how the IDOP and the Federal Department of Banks and Currency was interested in hearing how this "mistake" is corrected and he apologized, lowered the rate, took away the points and closed the loan. Of course, he said it was just that my timing was good and everything just went down, never admitting they did anything wrong.
Also, knowing freinds that were in forclosure, the banks do try to encourage you not to send payments and site a variety of reasons. Then, in the end, it looks like you didn't pay. It's wrong but you need to be able to document everything so either you go to the bank and insist they take it or you OPENLY document (not a hidden recorder) you openly document your attempt to pay and their refusal.
All that said, my sympathy to the woman in the article, but showing up at the a person's house with an angry mob is not going to win ... Not saying that's right, just saying it is what it is ...
I guess I should have finished to the point ... read, read & re-read anything and everything you are ever asked to sign. If you are not sure about something ask questions, document the answers or ask someone you know who understands the documents -- there's no shame in being informed. It sucks that the world has come to this from the days of a handshake, but if we want to protect ourselves, we have to make that effort.
Norm903 1.31
You're dialog with the socialist entitlement bunch isn't going well, is it? Well, what can you expect from this envious bunch of losers.
Has this woman, who is some 16 months behind on her mortgage payments showed up to bring her account up to date or just to make a single payment? It is irrational to think she can make a single payment and foreclosure proceedings would come to a screeching halt.
Wet Willy--you didn't read the story closely. The article said that she had caught up once her life stabilized. As far as entitlement, you forget that we bailed out the losers--the banks--after they screwed themselves and the entire country trying to sell fraudulent MBS's. These institutions threw millions of people out of work, devalued the savings and retirement funds of millions, destabilizing lives...and you look up to them. Pathetic.
Calicowhispers--you should put that story in a letter to the newly formed Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. These kinds of incidents should be documented at least. I, too, changed to a Credit Union after being fleeced by fees from SunTrust (DisTrust) Bank. There's a reason they offer free checking--because they know they'll be able to fee you into poverty. And never use their online banking or their ATM cards. I've been with a credit union now for over 2 years. And you know what? I've never been overdrawn or surprised by fees. SunTrust made my life hell.
Most people do not refinance their home for extra "spending money". That is simply an uninformed guess by someone who has probablly never had a mortgage or had to refinance. The majority of the time the refinance is to obtain a lower interest rate or to do major home improvements which often increase the value of the house. So, you get a l ower rate, repairs or upgrades to the home and an increased property value. Think about things a little bit before speaking out on something you know nothing about. This house had at least two generations living there and the woman was 49 years old. I think any h ouse would need repairs and upgrades after that amount of time.
Hey Wet Willy , I think she should have retained competent legal counsel ..... I would be willing to bet bet that the foreclosure was illegal ! and quite possily contains forged documents , missing assignments, and a host of other fatal flaws !
She should still be retaining competent legal counsel , and be filing a lis pendens . Immediatley .
The Bank is just trying to steal peoples equity , and I would highly doubt the loan proceeds came from the bank . the bank has no skin in the game .
Anyone saying that "no bank would NOT take a payment" hasn't dealt with Wells Fargo. They are CROOKED!!! They DO refuse payments!! My home loan is through them, and they're liars and crooked as hell! I was an RN until I got sick. My long term disability payments were denied the first time, making me late on house payments. I share my home with 3 teens. I finally got caught up, but they were threatening to not take ANY payment until I had all 3 to make at once! They don't allow partial payments.. nothing. When I was supposed to be getting a refi, they did foreclosure instead, lying to me about it the whole time. Their paperwork was so convoluted that the bank listed on the foreclosure wasn't even Wells Fargo! My brother (who is a lawyer) was able to stop the foreclosure, but I had over $20,000 added to my principle from it. I had only owed $130,000 on the house. I was ONE payment behind, but was told that the refi would lower my interest rate. It ended up that my payment was even higher in the end. They are crooks!!! As I caught up my payments from the disability being late, I was pressured to do another refi. I told them no way. That's their excuse to foreclose on you! During the refi process, they refused to accept ANY payment at all. So don't say she isn't telling the truth. I know she is!
Thanks Blue Burner.. I probably will. My aunt is the lead supervisor for Wells Fargo fraud department and lawdy I had it out with her about the banking policy..
I have one major bitch about USbank.. My grandmother was a customer for 30+ years, they knew Betty by face. When my grandmother was diagnosed with Dementia, my aunt- her care provider took it upon herself to order credit cards threw her bank accounts in my grams name and got loans in her name.. This aunt is the sleaze of the earth (meth head), she would run all my grams bank accounts dry monthly, within a week of getting her check, my grams had no electricity and water, hell she didn't even have food.. When I finally took control, I found she was feeding grandma dog food and laughing about it. Disgusting trash this woman is.
I called USbank and this horrendous woman had added herself to her accounts, she took her in with her dementia and my gram was soaked in urine and feces from head to toe and this bitch had to take my grams to the bank to sign paperwork to get her on the account. The bank didn't say crap, my grandma was in bad shape they should have called some sort of attention to it. Hell no they let this sucked up, sunken faced, bloated pig take a loan out with a woman that wasn't fully in her mind.. I reported it all to the bank and i couldn't do @!$%# because i wasn't on the account, every month overdraft fees. Oh i would call, go in and rant and rave about what they were allowing to happen. The bank allowed the identity theft to continue on, allowed this woman to sign loans in my grandmother's name after my grandmother couldn't remember her own name.
I finally got the state to step in and place her in a memory care facility and when the state seen what this bitch was doing they went after her for fraud and elderly abuse.. Grams is 45K in debt and the family fought me to keep her placed with my aunt, holy hell, nov-march was a big ass battle.. The family thought I was going to make an inheritance, from what DEBT!!!
You haven't heard about convictions because there probably haven't been any.
The perception is that those who will be, or have been, foreclosed upon deserve it. If they hadn't lied and signed loans they couldn't afford, or been "greedy" and bought more house than they could afford, then there would not be a problem. This leads to the conclusion that they should not be helped.
Those that sit in judgement of those in foreclosure or in need of a modification need to be aware of a few things.
1. The bank decides what you can afford to pay. They review your income and financial obligations to determine if you have adequate disposable income to make the payments on the loan you have applied for--debt to income. They check your residential, work, and credit history to assess your stability and the likelihood of you fulfilling the terms of the loan.
2. The real estate agent is supposed to represent YOU. They are to guide you through the purchase process to make sure inspections, title searches, appraisals, etc. are done; to make sure paperwork is filled out and submitted correctly, etc. That's what they get paid to do. It is not just to post the property on MLS and sit back and wait for the next sucker.
3. Law enforcement isn't going to help you. What number can I call to report, and expect to get an arrest and subsequent trial for, my real estate agent and other related parties if I feel a crime has been committed? There isn't one.
4. Attorneys don't want you either. Go against big business? One little customer and their cute little pretend lawyer against the Big Bank Legal Team? No, sorry, won't touch that.
5. Our government cares more about Big Business than its people. No surprise there. Twice they've bailed the banks and twice the banks aren't doing what they are supposed to do--help people so people can help turn the economy around instead of continuing to suck it down toward the drain.
All you had to be was honest, hard-working, and trust the people and businesses you were working with to be eligible for a royal screwing. C'mon people, you really think all the people in foreclosure lied to the bank about their income and what they could afford? Banks offer loans. They stipulate the terms of the loan. They have the money, they have the power. If the bank doesn't think you can meet the terms of the loan you have applied for, they deny it--even if you insist you can make the payments. BofA once denied me a loan saying I couldn't afford the payments. Even when I pointed out I had perfect credit, had never been late or missed a payment to them in more than 2 years, they said my debt to income was too high even though the loan would have lowered my payment by $100! What a load!
Dump the big banks. Hit them where it hurts!
seneca falls, jkld, & others. Many of you show a lot of intelligence and more importantly, wisdom. It is so sad that in our capitalist system we have people who want to work but there is no work for them. The husband had his hours cut at work, the wife had a health issue. These are thing beyond their control. And of course one major health issue can ruin a family. As for those of you HEARTLESS people out there who say things such as "they shouldn't be living beyond their means, etc." let me tell you something a Southgate home is a very modest affair at best. Her mortgage is probably less than rent would be. I know because I live in southern california and Southgate is not too far away. So those HEARTLESS people out there I wonder how you can look at yourselves in the mirror when you wake up in the morning. Probably you got screwed over by life's unfairness too and you're not happy unless someone else gets it stuck by unfairness too. If, on the other hand you HEARTLESS people really have no conscience, no feelings, or at the least no empathy then you're a prime candidate to be a ceo or president of a bank or big corporation.
This sort of bad publicity is going to cost Wells Fargo shareholders quite a lot...
I doubt that their upper management is doing this. It sounds more like some low level managerial twit who has made a 'decision' and now refuses to budge. Martinets like this can destroy a company's reputation overnight.
Blueburner 2.52
What we have is a story with more than a couple of contradictions. According to the bank rep, she was 16 month in arrears when they began foreclosure proceedings. She didn't dispute her arrears situation but said the bank refused any payments from her, so technically, she's not caught up on her payments. The story mentions a similar situation where Fannie Mae cancelled the eviction process. Is Fannie Mae involved here as well?
Other posters said she should have retained the services of an attorney instead of taking the actions she did. I think in this instance, that is good advice because you could be surprised what effect a decent attorney and bad publicity can have on a bank's (and Fannie Mae's) decision making process.
BTW, I don't look up to banks, but I think they're one of those necessary evils "we the people" have to contend with.
2-sense ... wow I don't know what you do for a living but I know what you don't do. Your 2 sentence description of what a real estate agent is supposed to do couldn't be more wrong. First off, there is at least three type of agency, buyer, seller and dual. Each one has different responsibilities to different people in the transaction. So the statement that the agent is supposed to "represent YOU" doesn't evenmake sense. Who is "you" in the transaction and is there even an agent representing that "YOU"? While buyer's agents have become more common, it is more than 50% of the time that there is no buyer's agent which means - no, the person is not getting paid to guide the buyer through anything and in many cases could lose there license for advising the buyer in anyway since their fiduciary responsibility is to the seller (that hired and IS paying them). Depending on many circumstances it could be one of a few different people including the buyer themselves to handle that which you have deemed the responsibility of the unidentified real estate agent. I agree that people need to be aware of a few things but you should have knowledge of those things before you set people off in the wrong direction.
That is why I mentioned earlier .... read, read & re-read everything before you sign it, ask questions and get help from someone you trust if you don't understand something -- there is no shame in protecting yourself because yes, these industries definitely have some less than reputable people.
2 cents, where did you get your financial training? If the banks don't determine your worth, do they take your word that you can mortgage a 120,000 house when you are making 30,000 a year? That's what they do for a living which is lend you money with some certainty of getting repaid. You pretty much said it yourself-The bank decides what you can afford to pay. And real estate agents? And who told you this? The real estate agent is supposed to represent YOU.? No, they work for the SELLER, not the BUYER. With what little you know about finance, don't ever buy a business--you'd go under in a month with your "everyone's out to screw you" , know nothing attitude.
I don't understand why we can give millions of dollars to Israel. Fight wars to help Libyans and feed people in 3rd World nations, but can't help people with absolutely verifiable disabilities make their house payments.
Congress and the Senate should be ashamed. This woman has done nothing to be ashamed of.
Something is missing from the story...she is 49 and this is her childhood home...mortgage loans back then were only made for a maximum term of 30 years...why is it when MSNBC runs one of these stories they don't give us all the facts?
Is she the owner, or is it her parents? Does Wells Fargo hold the loan on this property or is the foreclosure being ordered by Fannie Mae? es why don't they tell us this stuff?
Kenn the Denn this is just a guess but probably either they needed to do work on the home and this was a loan taken out to do this work or maybe the loan was taken to take care of cancer treatments for anyone who has ever had them they can destroy a person's finances even with insurance. Wells Fargo is a cold hateful company!!! I do not and would not do business with them if you have a credit card with them close it and get one elsewhere, checking account go to a credit union low to no cost on maintaining a checking account and interest rates much more reasonable. I hope that this article does hurt the company I am sure the company big shots make sure they get their bonus before shareholders get any money anyway so it will be the big-shots hurt first. (Well this company is cold enough they will lay off the little guy first or just hire temps that they don't have to give benefits to.)
Steve Illinois
Can you provide anything empirical to back this claim?
Yes, there are idiots out there who try and go it alone...but I've bought and sold real estate for years...and currently manage a series of rental properties I own (including ones in Chicago:) and I'd be willing to be you're over estimating the actual percentage by 35-40%
In my experience, it's far more common for sellers to try and complete the sale w/o hiring an agent. And the buyers who don't use an agent are typically experienced, savvy buyers who use a real estate attorney instead.
Since the buyers agent is paid at the close of escrow by the seller....there's really no advantage for the type of buyer 2-sense described to not hire an agent.
LOL...with all due respect...have you ever closed on a piece of property?
I ask because what you describe is simply not feasible at a closing. It would literally make every property closing last for at least a week....and would likely end up costing the buyer a double digit percentage of the properties purchase price in legal fees.
Closing on the last property we bought took nearly 7 hours of paperwork...NONE of which I actually read...let alone read and then re-read. LOL...if I was to read and re-read every document before signing it...I'd still be there. That was 14 moths ago.
ALL financial institutions are the scum of the earth, right down there with lawyers,politicians and terrorists. Wells Fargo is 1 of the worst. After all of these fraudulent forclosures are complete , I bet the housing market mysteriously bounces right back. Its like a buy here pay here car dealership, 1 late payment, they take the car back and sell it time and time again and always get double what they have in the car on each down payment.
@thinkstraight: Your guess is probably a good one, someone took out an equity loan on the home...the reason I mention Fannie Mae is that they and Freddie Mac own or guarantee 50% of all home loans in America, even a larger per-centage if the loan was subprime (although other banks may process the payments for them Fannie dictates foreclosure on the loans they own).
Since this was probably a sub-prime loan (just a guess) I think the one calling the shots is Fannie Mae...if so complaining to Wells Fargo won't do any good.
The Bank's best interest is to make money, period. And they certainly have the right to do so. Nobody held a gun to this woman's head when she signed the loan agreement.
On the other hand though, I'm sure the mortgage person who set this loan up spoke with a forked tongue. Not every bank is dishonest, but all of them were affected by the financial meltdown in one way or another.
It's time for accountability and truth without all the double talk. We as the borrowers, and the banks as the lenders.
I also agree with the post about health care. There's two sides to that story, even with health insurance the price of premiums are out of control, a perfect example of why De-regulating these industries was a really bad idea. .
...all hospitals should be non-profit!
Travis McDaniel, don't grenade troll please. You are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
By this police chief's own statement we have now made peaceful protest a "crime" in San Marino.
"The purpose of this ordinance is not to reduce picketing, but to protect people who are the victims of picketing." "We're a prime target. We have a lot of people who fit the profile to be a victim of this type of crime."
Clearly, police chief Schaefer has never read the Constitution and has chosen to ignore the oath he took to protect and defend that Constitution. I don't dispute the city's authority to establish boundaries around protest activities, but to label picketing a crime crosses the line.
That isn't a new problem in todays Police departments.
The overt role of all police departments is "to investigate crime and arrest lawbreakers." The unspoken role of police is to maintain the status quo, that is, everyone stays exactly where they are, especially the rich. This preserves the class system in America whether one wants to believe it exists or not. Check out history, when there are complaints against unfairness - getting ripped off, losing or not having civil rights, or simply standing up for the unempowered - the police have always sided with the establishment without regard to justice or fairness. It takes a major social movement to change any of this. Occupy.
Thank you, Bill Crane! I'm an old person who grew up when people respected law enforcement officers because that is what they were. Now they seem to be hired thugs for the rich. It's a sad time, and the people who need to be protected are thrown under the bus.
Fully Agree Bill Crane!
We MUST STOP the one-percenters from taking the assets of the 99% for themselves.
The laws have been enacted by the 1%ers and are slanted to their advantage, regardless of equity, fairness, or justice.
Past time for us - the people, American citizens - to stand up, stop the greed of the 1%, and OCCUPY!
I wholey support this lady and others in similar situations whether from mortgage lenders or our government!
Please define 1%. Here is what I know.
Make enough noise at the front door it is easy to just walk in the back door.
Everything that smells sweet is not a flower.
A half a believable story fools most of the people all of the time.
All is never what it seems.
If I make you angry I own you
If I make you worry I control you
If I tell you enough time that it is a pig and suddenly it quacks you will still see only the pig.
Misdirection is a valid tactic
All who extends their hands are not our friends.
Its the Republick of Calafornacation for krist sake, would you expect any thing less from the LEFT COAST??? Oh and before any one says it,,, it wasnt Bush's fault
What a bunch of morons! Have all the sympathy you want for this lady... that is a good thing. Now get off your ass and help her! What makes you believe that a bank that loaned you money should be responsible for your health issues? It is sad and I would wish that they would try to work with her but... they are no more obliged to do so then your local dentist is for their services! I bet a bunch of you would be there protesting in front of the dentists house because you owed him for a root canal and can't afford to pay him because you need food first. I would make the decision of course to buy food and not pay the dentist but I also would not expect him to just forgive the bill. Why do you believe you can simply demonize any one entity and make them responsible for your actions or issues. YOU are responsible. I am sick of this country turning in to a "it's everyone Else's fault" society. Why didn't the groups that helped organize and support that stupid protest in front of the house (these groups have money) pay the poor Lady's loan up to date or find her an appropriate place, or another job for the husband or pay for a nurse or set up a local charity for the family or something. They cannot refinance because they cannot afford the payment... duh. Fundamentally, why do you all think someone else is responsible? I am ashamed of you people. No one owes you crap! I have been thru similar situations and lost 2homes to foreclosure because some lowlife tenants also believed they didn't have to pay rent since the economy went bad (I guess they thought I was rich). I still owe over $50,000 for my heart attack and am limited in my income potential. We were not able to hold on to our properties. I never once thought that the bank should just let me keep those properties ...after all I am a nice guy who had a heart attack too. We have recovered and doing pretty good now, not because you morons made any difference, but because we had family to help and we took responsibility and worked thru our own difficulties. Send this poor women a check or volenteer to help her you morons!
Hey, digdeep-
Go back and read the article again. She has attempted to make payments but the bank refuses to accept them.
Get off your soap box and step back into reality. I know well what these people speak of, as my wife became fully disabled 2 years ago. With the sudden loss of her income and the medical bills piling up, we were FORCED into filing bankruptcy. Though we were diligent about saving prior to this, those savings were quickly eaten up. My wife will go on medicare next month after having to wait two years to be eligible. I am unable to work because my wife needs constant care. We live strictly on her disability, which is considerably less than 1200 a month, as DFS says that is too much income to be eligible for food stamps. We have a 6 year old daughter as well. My wife has a genetic condition as does the woman in the story. She has EDS (Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome). If we were to encounter another major medical issue, we would be sunk.
So, I take offense to you referring to these people as morons. Having compassion for another has never been moronic to me. True, the bank is not responsible for her health issues, but it has taken a hard stance to evict her by not accepting the payments she has attempted to make in the past. I am in total agreement that if this were a local bank / credit union, things would be different. My local bank went the extra mile to help us during our period of "financial restructuring" following my wife's "retirement" due to disability. And , mind you, this happened at the age of 29.
I sympathize for your life experiences, but I feel as though you may be a little bitter about it.
Grow up.
Can it be true that this many people missed the whole crime involved with the whole FannyMae, Freddie Mac business ? Those were just the big ones everyone was doing IT. The IT was approving people for loans thay could not possibly pay. When the Loanee's protested and said wait stop dont they were told they could refi in a couple of years and everything would be fine. When the interest rates skyrocketed and the price of gas went through the roof Re fi was no longer an option. All those people with no options. Add to this the downturn in the ecomomy and people having hours cut and being laid off. Who knew? So now the Banking industry is stuck with empty homes they can't sell. But then there re the ones they can sel. Like dang near anywhere in California. So this family refied for whatever reason and Mom couldn't work , Dad had to help Mom, lost hours. Wells Fargo does the Happy dance. Here is a loan that has been paid on for years , all gravy. We all know the first 20 years is all interest to the bank. Now this home is back on the Market and they can sell it again and start the gravy train all over again. See how that works. Houses in Cali sell.
robmo-2357326
First note... the two homes we lost were with "local" banks ... they would not work with us.
We seem to be sharing the same soapbox. While some feel sorry for themselves we move on. You know I didn't tell all the story because most of it still has nothing to do with the issue... "blame someone else". I could cut and paste your remarks and use them for our circumstances ... my wife also went on medical disability about 3 years ago and we lost her income as a loan officer for a "local" bank. She now is on Medicare also. We declared bankruptcy. We too tried to get refinancing thru one of the New Government programs and were turned down... we gathered up as much money as we could (a couple of payments worth- we were about 7 behind) and offerred it as payment to see if we could save the place we were in...they would not accept anything but the complete backdue amount of course (again we did not blame the bank for our problems) ... we were going to lose the last of our properties, the one we live in so we started planning what to do next. Family and hard work as I said before. We actually understand how the loan industry works (my wife was a loan officer at a local bank, remember!?) unlike these morons who have no clue. Once it has been established that you are in foreclosure the institution cannot take a payment. You cannot pick and choose when and how much you pay them. If they take a payment it opens them up to all kinds of problems. You should read the article again for more details ...oh wait they do not give you any details (msnbc-go figure) The women owed way more then one payment or she would not be in foreclosure no matter how bad the big mean bank is. I'm sure the women (by our own experience we know) had not been making payments for a long time but of course the article was not going to give you that info. I would love to just pay one of my car payments a year and continue to own my car... that would be sweet! Strangely, our bank, on their own, offerred us a solution with a reduced interest rate and, of course they tacked on the money we owed to our loan and of course there were fees we paid. They did not want the property back! Banks don't want the property back. We since have turned this same property into a money making business and it pays more then our payment. Yhanks bank!
I am not calling the women a Moron...I would expect her to try to save her home as you and I were succesfull at doing. I am calling the many people that posted for some reason that the bank is a bad guy because they just didn't let her stay for free. They are still Morons. I do not assume you are a moron although you have no idea how the industry works. You do know what you had to go thru and you do know how you worked with the bank to get there. You have no idea at all about what this women and the bank went thru (got to say it again... msnbc has no interest in giving the whole story) I do relate to your own situation and I do not see anything you did that is anything like this. You did not try to blame the bank ... you worked with them just like we did, didn't you? I guess you like so many others just assumes that the bank is bad because they are a big bank. You would die if I told you who worked with us...(hint...big bank) Who says that the bank in the article didn't try (remember it is msnbc) Do you even know what "hard" stance the bank took? Do not just swallow it whole just because... really I don't know why you swallowed it!... another last note... I too am home like you and we needed more income...not food stamps... so we made a new business in the home. As mentioned before it is more then paying our house payment. You might want to consider that. I am not sure why I should be bitter as I do not blame anyone else for the challenges life has thrown at me. Compassion... of course I have compassion for the women but that STILL has nothing to do with this argument. If I knew her I would have her over for dinner... I would drive her to her doctors appointment.... I would mow her lawn ...I would help her find a way to raise money... I would introduce her to people who would give her support... etc. That is compassion! Help her somehow if you can but stop demonizing entities or people who have nothing to do with her unlucky life. Good luck to you and your family.
The simple point is this:
Wealthy should NOT be allowed to take the assets of the less fortunate for themselves. That is the simple crux of the matter.
This behavior is founded upon GREED, and is anti-scriptual.
"Until the power of love overcomes the love of power, we will not know peace."
and, "Love of money is the root of ALL evil."
No one stated that the bank should let her stay for free. If you search this topic, you will find many other sources that give a story similar to this one. If, as you stated, you owned multiple properties, then you had a "small accumulation of wealth". The bank did not have to work with me on my housing, because I live in a mobile home I was able to pay cash for last year.
Yes, I still support the "demonizing" of these entities because they took our tarp money and gave their CEO a big raise and bonus, and then started taking the assets of other less fortunate people to prop up their bottom line. Why should we not be angry for that? They are assessing new fees that cripple people's budgets and yet the fat cats on top don't take a pay cut to strengthen their bottom line. They seem to forget that it is their customer's money first and foremost. Just like our government, they will prey on the citizens of this country instead of throttling their lifestyles back to make up for the deficits. This country will NEVER recover until the greedy entities that rule realize that they themselves are citizens just like us. The government will allow them to continue to rape the citizenry of this country until we taxpayers revolt and take this country back to it's roots. I fear any possible "deregulation" because I have seen it's affects on my life and other in the past.
I know of other who have found themselves in the same situation as this woman, many whom have no disability. The bank has refused to work with this woman and many others just like her. Wells Fargo is one of the worst at taking this hard line stance so that at the end of the year they can write this loan off and hence pay even less in corporate taxes. This is not a unique situation by any means. And yes, I do know how the system works. I was raised in a family of actuaries, so I may know better than most how this works. I chose a mechanical career as I was not in agreement with my families views.
Just because one does not understand the finer details of a situation does not make them morons. Neither does their individual situations. You say that msnbc " has no interest in giving the full story". Maybe you should consider that in your defense of the demon entities. If you step back and take a look at societal trends, you would see that many of these types of stories exist, and banks are under scrutiny for these types of actions. The numbers speak for themselves as to how many homeowners were fraudulently foreclosed on. You may have been successful in your endeavors dealing with your situation, but that by no means makes others who have not shared similar success, morons for demonizing the powers that refuse to work with them.
In this specific situation, how can you convincingly defend the actions of the bank? All they are concerned about is their bottom line (from which come these obscene bonuses for executives who are responsible for this housing downturn to begin with. Are you saying that the citizenry of this country are responsible for this?
AG99 - Good point. What is the bank thinking? All they will do is generate more ill will towards banks in general. Not smart.
Wells Fargo is thinking about profits and executive bonus.......
Remember back in 2008, when the banks recieved a "bailout' to cover all those mortgage default losses?
Well, that means that the US taxpayers covered all of those mortgage loans that the banks thought would go to foreclosure. In effect, the banks estimated their risk, and the US taxpayers bought the risk from the banks. Now, do you think the banks estimated high, or low?
Except, because the banks were only servicing (collecting) the mortgage, and had no idea who ultimately owned the mortgage paper, the US taxpayers never took title to the mortgage. So, the bank was bought out of the mortgage, and got to keep the mortgage too.
The bank recieved the cash from the US taxpayers, passed the cash along the food chain to whoever the ultimate mortgage holders were, then, went ahead and foreclosed.
So, if someone had a $160,000 mortgage, the US taxpayers covered it, and the bank foreclosed and sold the property for $100,000, the bank just made $100,000 pure profit.
No wonder the banks never wanted to negotiate with the homeowner. It was in their interest to foreclose, because the US taxpayer had relieved them of the risk of losses from the loan. The banks received all the reward and the US taxpayers received the risk.
Banks have no desire to modify loans, renegotiate loans, or to work with the homeowners, other than foreclosure because the sales proceeds on a foreclosed house are pure profit to them, result in higher earnings for the shareholders, and large bonus's for the officers.
So yea, feel sorry for the poor, poor, bankers in their gated communities.
They own your sorry *ss!
The Banks have all the money. They don't care what you think.
That's a rather overly-simplistic statement.
Since when is a peaceful protest illegal?? I need to check the map again, but I thought we were still in the USA. I don't agree with the wacky anti-choice people protesting planned parenthood with their photos of aborted zygotes, but they have a right to do it legally. This woman was protesting for her home and she gets arrested??!?! WTH?
Actually Florida Native I believe the anti-choice people with their photos of aborted zygotes should be prosecuted, but not for picketing. They should be prosecuted for breaking obscenity laws. Children walk or are driven past those signs and it is obscene they should be exposed to them.
Imagine walking down the street with a picture of a hot, naked babe showing her privates; much less obscene than the anti-choice wackos.
I agree with you two, a picketer went after my cousin after she miscarried at 5 months.. The guy picketing pushed her and started to hit her with his sign calling her a sinner..
I think it was bullsh*t she got arrested for a peaceful protest, approaching his house was a little extreme but really a woman in a wheel chair that has cerebral palsy, i just don't see as threatening or really being able to get up stair(s) to go after someone..
I had to deal with a rich family from California, their son was allowed to call and make death threats against my children, his mother and sister were allowed to stalk me on internet games i play and call my home at all hours of the night, but when I finally lost my mind on the psychos after their son hacked my facebook and emails, they called the cops and the cops told me to leave him alone.. I guess when you're rich you are allowed to @!$%# on other people's liberties, but when I call to lose my mind because NO means NO, i dont want your son and he needs to leave me and my children alone, I get to be harassed by the police for upsetting these fatrichbastards..
Remember her name: Ana Wilson. I'm outraged to read about this poor woman and her family. The greed that has taken over this nation and the world has overshadowed the fairness and justice that can still be interjected into every situation. It's called, humanity!
That coward in his gated-community castle could have called off the dogs. That woman and her family required assistance. Although the end of this horrid story remained the same, her losing her home, it didn't have to end this way. 'Gangstas' in suits have taken over this world and the USofA.
A really disgraceful way to treat another human being. Remember her name: Ana Wilson with cerebral palsy.
Calico Whispers.
you are forgething one important part: their money can buy anything or anoyone for that matter, I can give you an example that all Americans witnessed, remmenber when Mr Bush won as the President of US? whom suppress the votes in California, Jed Bush, there we go... the rich can do anything, steal and get away with it, however, we de poor devils, as they call the middle and poor class, that's what we are to them, as simple as that, but if you try to do what they do, you go to jail... money talks....
If "MERS" was the nominee for the lender they have NO AUTHORITY to foreclose. Also check and see if Wells Fargo was your original lender or the mortgage was assigned to them. In order for "MERS" to assign a mortgage the orignal note needs to be assigned and actually endorsed by the Original lender. Again "MERS" is only the nominee for the lender and has NO AUTHORITY. "MERS" was created by Fannie and Freddie Mac and to date has saved over 20 million dollars in recording fees. "MERS" is a computer. Request your original note and mortgage. If they cant provide they have not assigned it. NO ONE SHOULD EVER LEAVE THEIR HOME! I just saved one of my clients $149,647 dollars, they went from a $344K mortgage to a $195K mortgage fixed @ 2.00% for the life of the loan. THEIR WAS FRAUD all over the file. GOOD LUCK!
Bank Bailouts..
10/28/2008
Wells Fargo & Co.
San Francisco
Calif.
$25,000,000,000
Just so everyone knows.
But it's OK to foreclose and arrest a woman with CP because she is trying to save her home.
Is this really the American dream?
The corporatist of America's dream.
Vote Ron Paul the presidential candidate who receives more donations from the military than Obama and Romney combined!
LAR 42 What you need to know is that Wells Fargo received bailout money because of their take over of Wachovia Bank which had a large amount of failing loans on their portfolio. Wells Fargo was making profits and would not have needed any money if not for that. In any case Wells Fargo paid back the money in 2009 with a profit going to the government. If only the government would do so well on other investments as it did with Wells Fargo.
You mean they bit off more than they could chew and needed help with a loan. Double-talking scum.
Yup they sure did borrow 25 billion. About a year later they paid it back in addition to 1.5 billion extra in dividends. We the taxpayer made a pretty good return on our investment on that one.
John - they paid it back with our money.
Every body in America could get rich if we got the same deal the banks got.
Derek: Ron Paul was the recipient of the most donations from the military - until March. Then it started to quickly move toward Obama (who had just started his campaign in earnest). By this date Paul is probably now in second place in total contributions for the past twelve months.
Keith they paid the money back with the profits of the corporation. What TARP was all about was lending these banks money so that they could get their collective act together and not have a complete collapse of the banking system. Many of the larger banks, including Wells Fargo, paid the government back with interest. When all is finished the government is going to make money not lose it.
David, I would be a millionaire if the FED would give me the same deal for 6 months. The banks are thieves and they stole their own money until they couldn't hide it any longer and we bailed them out for it. The banks have been bailed out six times since 1939 and every time the American tax payer was on the hook for their ignorance and malfeasance.
John, where did that extra 1.5b come from? Off the F**king backs of the taxpayer.
Definition: "JOB CREATOR"
It sad that this is happening here. The American dream is just a big nightmare and not much it really done to help the little guy, the people. some lucky ones are able to keep there homes...this banks are ruthless and unethical. they have there customer services out of the country ridding a F script and they don't know nothing about your mortgage, left hand don't know what right hand are doing. Any one that pick up the phone could not care less about you, your kids your life or what you going through.... what happen with the America Dream?
To borrow the words of Douglas Adams: It is not just that the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. Often the left hand has a pretty hazy notion as well.
I know this really does not matter to you but he laws are meant to maintain order. So when the have's feel unsafe in their home from the rabble, guess who is going to get arrested. I am all for burning down wall street but that is only becuase they fund Obama re-election to Lord and Emperor of wall Street.
That's a lotta samolians! I'm kind of wondering why the whole issue of the bank bailout seems to have wandered off the radar screen. It just frosts me that our tax dollars were used to bail out these bloodsuckers.
Funny how "moral hazard" is ignored when $7,000,000,000 of taxpayer dollars went to the Wall Street banks. Yet NO sympathy or help for those paying the price for the crimes of these banks?
And there's NO investigation or prosecution of the widespread fraud, perjury and other crimes these banks systematically committed? Don't buy the lie these banks did nothing illegal -- the evidence is widespread.
San Francisco found over 85% of bank documents submitted were fraudulent. And a single county register in Mass. found 31,000 fraudulent document in just one county. This evidence (and much more) is in courthouses across the country. However, if you REFUSE to look, you don't find it.
America, these banks are no longer serving the US economy -- only themselves. And our government is corrupt.
The folks on the vine and else where that are complaining about the actions of Wells Fargo and other banks, you gotta understand that they have the power and to money and they really don't care what anyone thinks about them. As far as they are concerned you can scream and protest all you want, they have the power and they just don't care.
They Banks have to much of the Fing Power, and it's up to all the Spineless People of this country, to grow a BACKBONE,A PAIR ,and LIMIT THAT POWER! By whatever means necessary.IT'S GONE TO WAY TO FAR!
You get my Drift Dave?
"...By whatever means necessary...."
Guess who popularized such a statement? Malcolm X.
Spike: So what's your point?
You can't protest or limit anything from a jail cell. Whatever happened to the "Land of the Free"? That's right, filth like Police Chief John Schaefer nuked it, and continue this bombardment on our rights and liberties every single day. What's it going to take to stop this madness, I ask? When government-vs-the people comes to a head, what's going to happen? Tanks in the streets, that's what's going to happen.
"Spike: So what's your point?"
Get a dictionary and look up "any means".
Those are TWO words, and the dictionary usually has words listed singly. If you look up the meaning of each word, it would not be likely that whatever you are driving at would be revealed.
YourmomDIDraiseafool,
You knew full well the intent,and tone of my post. Being disengenuous is not a sign of intellect, it is merely sophomoric obfuscation.
I fully understand the intent of your post - it not the "by any means" statement I was referring to, it's the reference to Malcolm X. How about when that Republican candidate for Congress in Texas said "by any means necessary" regarding overthrowing the U.S. government." Is that different because a white rightwinging Tea partier said it?
I think the point here that everyone can agree on is that the "protected class" folks like CFO Tim Sloan are above answering to the common people of the USA. He, and other mega-wealthy in the country, with the support of the blood-sucking rightwing politicians will continue to enjoy their "welfare for the wealthy" tax breaks ala Mrs Wilson and the rest of the 99%.
There will be absolutely no respite from this outrageous corporate behavior as long as nearly 50% of Congress supports it (via Republican mandate). M(B)itch Mc Connell made it quite clear nearly four years ago that the Republicans' SOLE purpose is to make sure President Obama is limited to one term. No lines to read between here, folks! While the House majority plans "Obama's demise", the rest of the country suffers from their ineptitude.
Dear Lord; what is going on with these banks?
If there really was a LORD...he would smite these heathens...!!
The Republicans control the House, and don't give one iota if Mrs. Wilson is losing hers.
Hope "Job Creator" CFO Sloan enjoys his large tax break this year, ala Mrs. Wilson's husband and the rest of us 99%.
In my city the set back is 25 feet. at a 150 feet, the front lawn would be larger than the most houses in this country. And 75 feet from the curb? This neighborhood have 4 lanes with a center median?
The law is clearly designed to make protesting Impossible.
You have to understand that in this neighborhood the houses sit on multi-acre sites and the average price is(was?) at least $5million. The hoi poloi aren't welcome(unless you are a domestic servant, of course.)
Banks at used to hide it when they would screw people over. Now their just open about it and yet they wander why people are starting to fight back...
Quite frankly, I think they are proud of their new-found aggressiveness. Afterall, they have full support from the "deregulatory behavior" of the House majority.
Wells Fargo can go SCREW THEM SELVES!
GREEDY Ugly Venmous Dirty Bastards.
I hope this lady keeps her house!
Keep fighting the corporate greed. What banks are doing is actually immoral and illegal. Remember, you have the right to protect your family and your neighbor.
She needs to find out whether Wells Fargo actually owns her mortgage at all. Contact the 1-800 pertaining to the big five bank, 49 state settlement
While trying to refi with Wells Fargo I was informed they don`t own the mortgage and haven`t since we closed on the house in the first place. First I heard of it. I gather they are only the loan service provider. We never got a notice that they had sold or transferred the mortgage. And I only found out when I wanted to know whether we would be covered by the big financial settlement WF signed with the 49 states. No....they don`t own it. That is the first requirement to be covered by the settlement is that the bank owns the mortgage.
BINGO Kelcy!
Very rarely do banks actually hold onto the loans that they write. There is nothing new here it has been going on for years. The loan is probably in the hands of Ginnie Mae now. When I refinanced two years ago my loan was sold twice in one months time. Of those two sales I was informed of only one.
The buying and selling of people's debt is a whole other problem.
Kelcy: Good call. And many of the "sold" mortagages were sold to American speculators, who then sold to Chinese speculators, who then sold to .....? One can't find an actual owner in many many cases. The entire scheme is a fraud of the first order.
Last time we owned a house and had a mortgate.....everytime it was sold we got a letter from the old bank and the new bank. This time there was no such thing that happened. When they got rid of Glass-Steagall did they get rid of that too? This all so wrong on so many levels.
I LOVE how people call for bringing down the banks, big corporations, etc. The change needs to come from within the government. They regulate EVERYTHING....and it is getting even worse under Obama. Let's take a realisitc view where the problem really lies and stop this inane ranting.
With that said, IF this is the whole story, shame on WF!
Remember the French Revolution? Off with their heads should be a ralling cry. In other words bring down the large corporations and their bailouts and their corporate greed. What if everyone did not make a mortgage payment for one month.
What if everyone didn't make a mortgage payment for six months?
Luckily, "everyone" doesn't fall on hard times at the same time.
Dear God, what an idiot. The French Revolution was not the glorious revolt of peasants they make you think in history books. It was actually led by a bunch of upper-middle class agitators (the ones usually pulling the strings, people who wanna usurp the throne, not lead the people to lead themselves). Anarchy is not chaos, it's actually the best style of govt ever, but it's impossible to maintain, because people stubbornly refuse to rule themselves. They're afraid of what other people might do to them, so we have laws. And more laws, and more, and more, and more, the more people make us afraid. The real terrorists here are our own governments, who tell us dangerous things will happen if X or Y is put in our food, if we cross the street near Mexico, etc and therefore we need border patrols, food and drug orgs, etc. These people actually make things worse, by keeping people out we make them curious about our "great" country and they can't head back without getting outted, by making penalties for gross substances added to our food people find clever ways to disguise what's in food ("natural flavors").
Violent revolts don't solve anything, except to shift power around. What we need is for everyone to stop voting and stop working at corporations in favor of small businesses, corporations then will make the laws (since they'll likely be the ones still voting), but we know where they live. We can stop working for them, and see how long their power lasts.
All the revolutions in the history of humanity have been about the middle class enlisting the help of the lower class to rise up and overthrow the upper class.
The lower class never has initiated a revolution, as they lack the ability to organize, and to govern once they succeed. They also lack the education to know any different.
Which is why the middle class in the US are being destroyed, so that the upper class need not fear of revolution. Ignorance is Strength, War is Peace, and Freedom is Slavery are all the mottos of a totalitarian regime. We already have seen "Ignorance is Strength, and "War is Peace", in our society, as well as attacks on freedom.
No, go enjoy your "bread and circuses", watch Dancing with the Stars and it's like.
I know the article wants everyone to feel sorry her and in some respects I do. Breast cancer, cerebral palsy, in a wheel chair, and an income decline are very special circumstances. However, there was one small sentence that seemed out of place. The article referenced this was her “childhood home.” That implies she has virtually lived there all her life and her parents would have had the house for many years. She’s 49 and has lived there all her life, so why wasn’t the mortgage paid off? Did they mortgage the house to last possible dollar and possibly accepted bad loan conditions like; an adjustable interest rate, a higher than usual interest rate, interest only payments, or payments they really couldn’t afford? The question of how she’s losing her “childhood home” is not answered.
It could be possible she had to get a loan or something to cover her medical bills when it began, and this caused her fallout? I don't know how that works exactly when you put your home up as collateral ? If it's that, or something? Maybe her parents sold it to her? >.<
HEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLO,even if she lived in the house a 100 yrs,and it was her childhood home, and took out a toxic loan.She was paying it all along REMEMBER?
THEN she got sick and that's when the trouble started.She even had a payment to catch up! She had been doing everything right all along, and it's really nobodies business why she took out the loan.Again she had been paying on it up until the time she got SICK!
Now do you understand?
Unit Price brought out that some information is lacking. I wondered the same thing.
It really doesn't matter, Wells Fargo has a history of lying to their customers and failing to do their due diligence. She should be given the modification without all the punishment that she has been subjected to. She has been following instructions from her banker, shouldn't she expect the banker to be telling her the right thing to do?
If you have lived in house for 49 years you may notice that some things have deteriorated - like roofs ($8K - $16K), plumbing (another $8K or more), electrical (another $8K), painting, etc. Taking a loan out to fix up one's home is making an investment not only to your property, but to the memories and connections you have of living there.
My guess is that they refinanced to cover the horendous medical bills that they had to pay. If you haven't been there, you can't begin to understand the enormity of the problem.
"It really doesn't matter..."
Really? I think the whole story does matter. Kinda like listening to only the prosecution in a criminal trial--one side.
It could be that she and her husband bought it from her parents. Then at some point her mom moved back in with them to help take care of her after her father passed away. Perhaps the parents used the money for end of life care for him. Lots of possibilities that lead to a mortgage and the article says they fell behind when she had breast cancer.
You don't know what has happened in her ife...treating cancer and CP is expensive...continuing to treat anything related to those diseases is expensive.
It's really amazing how you can be a good customer for years, but you fall onto some hard times and suddenly they don't like you much.
She's been trying to catch up, and they don't care. So to hell with them.
What I want to know is why did she have a mortgage on the property if this were her childhood home. She must have refinanced on a home that had no mortgage, or a very small one, in the first place.
Why does that matter? She was following bank instructions, then they started proceedings against her.
The bank is wrong
I wonder if WF would notice if everyone stopped doing business with them? I know, I know, they are all the same, so why bother?
They don't need our business any more, we are just problems for them. We loan them money for zerro interest and they loan it back to us for 3.5% any idiot can get rich that way.
I had my accounts with another bank, that then was taken by WF, two or three months later I needed to set a direct deposit and the branch manager said, and I quote "We don't serve your kind." by then my wife passed, and I took my accounts to a different bank; 8 months later I received a "Pay or else" kind of notice for "overdrafts checks written by my wife. They are incredible, I had to present the Death Certificate and asked for those returned checks so I can see them. This is when they stopped. If I need some cash, and the only ATM around is a WF machine I just skip them, I do not want to give them a fee that they charge for that service; other banks have no such fees. They are going down, soon.
I was with Wachovia and then they got bought out by WF. I wasn't real crazy about Wachovia, but they did do free checking and for the most part when I made deposits (every two weeks) I had no problems. Now!!!!! Sheesh, I am looking for a local bank or credit union to join. I can't stand WF, they want to charge you a fee for every damn thing that you do with them.
The big banks are getting greedier and greedier. This poor woman, I hope this gets resolved soon.
CU are no better, they say they are there to help their members but not all members have equal footing.
If the house was her childhood home and she is 49, why isn't the thing paid for!!!!!
Unit,,,perhaps she had large medical expenses,,,,Ultimetly it was their home and they could use the money as they saw fit,,,,,To Ana, Stay strong, our prayers are with you.
So let me see if I get this.....Wells Fargo partook in predatory loans that directly caused the housing crash which was a direct result of Bush's deregulations. Then Wells Fargo turns around and forecloses on those same homes they issued the predatory loans to, evicting persons who they qualified that have no other asset.....meanwhile the CEO who issued the predatory lending practices was never held accountable, received a relatively large bonus and lives in a luxury home and has the very same people they prayed on arrested? WOW Thanks George W....Thanks Wells Fargo, your friendly neighborhood bank......
Wells Fargo was not a major player in predatory loans. They acquired Wachovia Bank that was failing and they were a major player which is why they received money from TARP.
To look at this disaster and blame only George Bush is to ignore the fact that there were many villains in the fiasco that occurred with the banks. Both Democrats and Republicans are responsible disaster. What it came down to was greed on all sides.
David I was a Wells Fargo victim, whether they were a major player is a matter of perspective. As far as I am concerned they were the biggest player. Lucky for me I figured out the lied to me before the crash while there was still loans available so I moved my mortage to another bank.
Banks are not loaning money today, that is why the Depression is still ongoing.
Had the Congress bailed out Citizens the economy would be buzzing right along by now.
When was the last time you saw Congress do something to benefit all the people of the United States?
(waiting on an answer)
CPO Sharkey, the answer is NEVER! Not unless they thought there was something in it for them.
April 20th on MSN there was an article "Wells Fargo Insiders Detail Forclosure Fraudulent Practices". It tells about how employees are forced to process fraudulent mortgage documents in a assebly-line and were not allowed time to investigate the background of the mortgage. Some homes were sent into forclosure for small amounts. Many people in forclosure do not belong there. READ the article, you may not like what you hear if you bank with Wells.
Banks/brokers are sending this country spiraling down the toilet. We need REAL regulation now!
Yeah and go tell it to your Senator and Congressmen, because both these Clowns are OWNED BY THE BANKS,all bought and payed for by these Bastards like high priced whores.
The whole Corrupt Friggen So Called United States Government is all bought and payed for by these Bastard Banks.
Get the Hint!
What is sending this country spiraling is spending 1.50 when you only have 1.00. Same as these people saying it was the mean bank that made them come in and borrow the money.
Proper regulation is a great idea but these banks just look for ways around the new regs. They need a very large boot on their throats explaining that "no means no, you don't find new ways to bilk the public". Meanwhile the BIG VPs and so on are making 6, 7, 8 figure salaries and outsourcing their workforces overseas. Meanwhile in America, their customer base is getting the screwed.
Rick - it isn't us. The Banks were the theives
Real regulation comes from Congress, don't hold your breath that it will help you when it occurs.
When was the last time you went into a bank and the teller in front of you spoke English? Just asking.
I hope people like the Wells Fargo CFO, Tim Sloan die a terrible , agonizing death.
What an idiot, pay your debt! What a bunch of losers.
Ricky Ricky Ricky! You haven't a FRICKEN CLUE of what the HELL you're TALKING ABOUT.
Especially in this Case!
Rick if you still believe this Depression was caused by some poor people not being able to pay their mortages, I have a bridge to sell you. You are truly clueless, it was a hold up, and the Banks, Insurance Companies, and Wall Street did it.
Hey Keith, I don't believe that the poor people started the depression any more than I believe that Wells Fargo was the reason that this woman has cerebral palsy or breast cancer. Know what I'm sayin?
So Hawkeye - do you think that Wells Fargo can just do as they please?
Keith, we have a set of laws that govern banking just like every other aspect of life in this country. You may not like them but you also have the opportunity to vote your opinion and elect individuals that align with your perspective. If WF is in violation of the current banking laws then I say fine them, jail them, whatever. With that being said, it's foolish to expect businesses (big or small) to wholesale forgive the liabilities of individuals that have had some "bad breaks" in their lives....and I would acknowledge that this lady clearly has had some bad luck. Life has its ups and downs (trust me, I've been there), but if we expect lenders to forgive debt for individuals that have had setbacks, then why would banks ever really lend money to society? My only criticism of WF is that she now appears to be willing to resume her loan payments and they appear to not be interested.....but I'm not sure the story above provides enough details to really understand the WF perspective. Peace-Hawkeye
It's a crying when people get so cold hearted ,they don't care about people anymore. Try walking a mile in her shoes then you will know how it fills. She should pay her bills, but they should be more compassionate also.
She has tried to pay her delinquent mortgage payments, Wells Fargo won't accept the payments.
Wells Fargo wants the house, to sell at a foreclosure, because they can make more money selling her house than they can from servicing her mortgage.
Rick, do you work for WF & live in one of those homes most of us can't afford? Yes, i paid my bills, worked 1/2 a lifetime, raised a family on 1 income, then I lost my job due to "downsizing."
I think it would do you some good should you become ill, lost your job & had no one to depend on other than for a banking institute to try to work with you so that you don't lose your home. Come on Rick, come down here and try living with the average citizen instead of sitting up there on your probably fat "A-S" making assumptions about other peoples misfortunes. Please don't bother to comment, I already have made my assumption about you......
Rick, you ARE aware that the mercy (or lack of it in your case) WILL be repaid to you at some point. Some call it karma; I call it God's justice when you die.
I guess we still have the right to assemble, but only where they tell us too.. and
Derek, check your facts please..
The FED is not actually privately owned. The members are appointees by the President and the senate http://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_12591.htm, so it is a Government bank, but there is seperation from the government, because of long term limits and laws.
Derek is closer to right than you are, the profits are privately held. The losses however are a public responsibility. Just about any idiot could make a living like that I would think.
Exactly Keith, Funkster quit trying to marginalize the theft of the American peoples wealth.
People don't have jobs and are losing their homes. The banks refuse to help them but turn around and sell it at a very low price to a "low income" family....
Why can't they let the original family stay in their home for that same price?
MIND BOGGLING isn't it!
because the new owner is paying the mortgage and the old owner was not
yes mind boggling how that works
excuse me, plstop, but the owner of the hom was trying to do that as well. what if the difference?
plstop, are you for real?Yes Sir she was paying the mortgage! She had a bad run of luck,couldn't pay pay for awhile and THEN GUESS WHAT HAPPENED?
I'll explain it to you! She had the MONEY TO CATCH UP, AND THE DUMB BASTARDS AT THE BANK WOULDN'T HEAR OF IT!
So YES plstop she was paying her mortgage, and the DUMB BASTARDS at the Bank are CLUELESS.
COMPRENDE SIGNOREEE?
No, the banks aren't generally selling to "low income" families -- at least not here in Southern California. They're selling them to investors -- usually foreign investors -- who then rent them out at a profit. Low income people can't get loans, but they're forced to pay more for rent than the loan payment would have been. And meanwhile, Los Angeles County has been sold piece by piece to non-citizens, who send their profits overseas, or set up businesses that will only hire their own ethnicity. And on top of that, they get permanent residence via EB-5.
Look lady, don't become another damn Occupy demonstrator. Don't take bank loans in the first place! I know times are tough especially for someone with cerebral palsy (who thanks to our govt's screwy awards system, is probably paid better than me, whose only problem is extreme introversion and dependency), but thanks to Occupy and their radical protests, it is now a crime to sleep in public land!
Those who become homeless? Well you're outta luck. You can't sleep in private land, because usually someone tells you go away, and now you can't sleep in campgrounds or streets. This doesn't affect demonstrators, except to get them to go home after hours, but during a recession, where the homeless need somewhere to sleep, it's now a crime to be homeless!
Wtf? A person sleeping in a city is noticeable, and a person crowding up homeless shelters is a drain on public resources. But a person choosing to camp out somewhere by themselves, should be allowed legally to do so.
I suspect plstop is actually right. Despite her claiming she paid all the bills on time, Germany when handed a bill for the war couldn't pay it anyway, and made a big fuss about how hard it was to pay, and ended up never paying a cent. It's usually the agitator types that never do a thing, and claim they did their job and someone else was unjust.
I had this happen to my family in 2005. Wells Fargo tells you what you need to do, you do it. They cashed my check and still foreclosed. Then they sold my house for more than what was owed and took my tax refund for 4 years after for fees that didn't exist. I got a divorce and am a single mom with 4 children and could make my house payment. My ex husband didn't have a dime taken from him. Now my credit is bad and the rent I pay is much more than my house payment. My children have had to move to 3 different schools and will never know what it feels like to have a childhood home. There was no one to help me. I did everything they said to the letter and they still took our home. We will never be the same.
Did the bank loan increased I think not. Her medical was paid for. She gets a disability check. So what prevented her not to pay her loan. Another question how much was her payments. How long did she not pay on the loan. You never go to somebody home to pay a loan bill. On-line yes. In person at the bank yes. What she waited 2 years to pay on your loan. I'm sorry I don't feel for her. She is phony look at her home. Garbage ever where so how did she get around in this home. She could not have rolled herself up to the desk. If she was renting this home they would have evicted her she would be out in 1 to 6 months. Remember folks if you have a loan on your home you do not own it the bank does.
Tracy, I saw your comment and want to share this with you and everyone else. If you're looking to change your financial future for the better... LISTEN TO Tara's experience.
Tracy Baby you could have avoided all of it. 1. Let your ex-husband have the home. 2. Sold the home. You did neither. Why? You could even let your husband have the children. So why didn't you make the house payments if you are complaining about a higher rent. I'm sorry I don't feel for you either. I don't help people who don't try help themselves.
There have been some very valid points made on this article. It seems that this article has been broken up into several emotional topics, like many are. I want to comment on one part....her CP. My husband has CP. Please don't make the mistake of feeling sorry for her or excuses her from paying her debts because she has CP. My husband is a graduate of Texas A&M, a business owner, and a father of 3. He isn't perfect, but his imperfections are NOT because of his CP! I am NOT accusing her of using her CP to get out of honoring her debt...but it sounds like some of you felt like her CP was cause to go easy on her. It is NOT!!!!
Lyle works for Welles Fargo what a scumbag.
@ Travis the all knowing: Nice that you have a crystal ball and know everything that had gone on in every case for all of of lazy working class losers. Even if you work 40 or 50 years and pay your bills and your medical premiums and never use your coverage, you should not expect to have coverage when you actuall get sick. That money belongs to the bank and the insurance company. Even though the worker labored for it.
I had 20 months worth of payments that I made ($200 more than I was supposed to pay according the the mortgage I signed) that I am not being credited for and put in foreclosure. I hired an attorney and then they started returning my payments. They were wire transferred payments and did not/could not bounce. Not one of them was late. Want to see my bank statements? When my lawyer got me into court to show my proof their attorney said they could not address the case as they had not received all my paperwork and couldn't review it (lies, they got it dozens of times from official sources not just myself) This has been going on for 3 years.
Sure this lady had some nerve getting cancer and missing payments. Anyone who has the nerve to get sick like that should be severely punished. The poor bank suffering like that. Also you don't know the age of the other adult in the household or their condition. For all you know it could be an elderly parent. They better get to work too. Travis, join the republican party and make a new law: anyone who retires and has the nerve to get sick and can't cover all the bills (even though they paid for insurance to cover them) should be euthanized so that the insurance companies and banks can keep the premium money the person paid for their whole working career. They need it for fees to protect their gated communties from people who should just drop dead so the bank can take what the people worked and paid for their whole life. That makes perfect sense right? After all people have more money because they stole it from their workers have more of a right to live than the rest of us. Morals who needs them? Just gets in the way of what YOU think you are entitled that others are not.