E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com
One of the posters created for the anti-Islam conference in Dearborn, Mich. that uses the name of a young woman murdered last year. Organizers say her murder was an honor killing; her family says her tragic death has nothing to do with their religion.
In Dearborn Mich., a Detroit suburb known for its concentration of Muslim Americans, anti-Islam leaders from around the country are gathering to discuss how to rescue women from that faith. The "Jessica Mokdad Human Rights Conference on Honor Killings" on Sunday is named for a local Muslim woman murdered one year ago.
But Muslims, civil rights groups and other religious leaders say the conference is merely another event put on by well-known bigots to attack the minority religion. Their response was to schedule a town hall meeting just a few miles away on Sunday called "Rejecting Islamophobia: A Community Stand Against Hate."
The honor killing conference, organized by Pamela Geller, who became nationally famous for her vocal opposition to the Ground Zero Mosque, aka Park 51 in Manhattan, is based on the premise that Mokdad, 20 years old when she died in April 2011, was the victim of an honor killing justified by Islam.
Mokdad’s family maintains that the killing was a tragedy that has nothing to do with their Islamic beliefs, according to a report in the Detroit Free Press.
Robert Nickelsberg / Getty Images file
Pam Geller a well-known critic of Islam, delivers a speech during a "9-11 Freedom Rally" on Sept. 11, 2011 on the 10th anniversary of the World Trade Center attacks on the United States. Geller founded a group called "Stop the Islamization of America," considered a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
"It's not a case based on honor," Macomb County Assistant Prosecutor Bill Cataldo, chief of homicide, told the Free Press on Friday.
In court, prosecutors have said the motive for Mokdad’s killing was that her stepfather, Rahim Alfetlawi had "been sexually abusing her," Cataldo said, according to the report. They argue that when she threatened to go public about the abuse he killed her.
Cataldo said the family strongly objects to the conference using Mokdad’s killing, which they say was a tragedy that had nothing to do with their faith.
Geller insists this was an honor killing carried out by a devout Muslim because his stepdaughter was not following Islam, and that the family is covering it up. She alleges that law enforcers systematically cover up honor killings here and elsewhere under "stealth enforcement" of Islamic shariah law.
On her web site, Geller says: "Despite pressure from the media and members of Jessica's family who want to cover up the honor killing aspect of her murder, we are not going to change the name of the conference. Unlike those closest to her, we are going to honor Jessica's memory and stand up against the brutal practice that took her life."
The Dearborn conference will feature speeches by Geller and Robert Spencer — author of the blog "Jihad Watch" — as well as several like-minded legal and religious figures. They have also invited a young man who says he was Mokdad’s friend to offer "firsthand testimony" that she was a victim of honor killing.
Stop the Islamization of America, which Geller and Spencer founded, has been listed as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center, a non-profit civil rights watchdog.
"Pamela Geller is the anti-Muslim movement's most visible and flamboyant figurehead," according to a profile published by SPLC on its web site. "She's relentlessly shrill and coarse in her broad-brush denunciations of Islam and makes preposterous claims."
The Arab American Institute, a decades-old community organization in the Detroit area, discouraged Muslims and their supporters from protesting at the site of Geller's conference. But they organized a competing event, said AAI president Jim Zogby, because Geller and Spencer have become too prominent to ignore.
"Geller and Spencer have thousands of followers, and are given airtime to spew their hate on major American news networks, as if they are respected analysts with just another viewpoint," Zogby said on the AAI announcement for the "Rejecting Islamophobia" town hall in Detroit.
Although many Americans have never encountered a Muslim in person, about 43 percent questioned in a recent Gallup Poll said they felt at least “a little” prejudice against Muslims.
"This group, we cannot ignore. This is the time for our community to take a stand, along with all those who value America’s commitment to diversity and freedom of religion, against the politics of division and bigotry promoted by the Islamophobes."
A variety of community, interfaith and religious leaders and Michigan public on their agenda, for a "community conversation about how to respond to these continued attacks," said Zogby.
One participant who was just on his way to the town hall was Dawud Walid, who heads the Michigan office of the Council on American Islamic Relations, a civil rights advocacy group for Muslims.
"I think firstly we have to better expose who these anti-Muslim bigots are as well as their funders," said Walid. "We believe that the Islamophobia that permeates our country is being pushed by a well-organized, highly-funded network."
He says that while Dearborn and Detroit have become a focus for the activities of Geller and others of like mind, the problem is bigger.
"Islamophobia is a national illness," he said.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Woman fighting foreclosure arrested in appeal to Wells Fargo CFO
- Lawyers argue over sex tape at John Edwards trial
- Nuclear plant knocked offline by jellyfish-like creatures
- Lawyer: Autistic boy's teacher didn't call him 'bastard'
- World record holder for 'longest time to live with a bullet in the head' dies
Leave a Comment:
If being against a religion for killing innocent young girls is being a Bigot then I am guilty. No one on this Earth has the right to end a young girls life because of any reason even in the name of God. Any religion that teaches to kill others because they don't believe the way they do is not much of a religion it is more of a cult. IF the United States allows Islam to practice Honor Killings then the USA is doomed. The Muslims have won the War on terror. The Third world war wil breakout if this should happen and it won't be with Russia or China or any other country it wil be with Islam. Islam wants to destroy the world in the name of God. If this is their true end game then their God in not in Heaven but Hell. They are mistakenly worshiping Satan. One day the entire world will wake up and they wil either realize they are with Islam or against Islam and it wil not have anything to do with a particular religion other than Islam. If you are an Atheist Islam is against you whether otr not you believe they'll kill you f at all possible, The only time of Peace on Earth will be when Islam is defeated. The world will then be free. May God help us in the coming disaster.
ihateliberals,
Since you sound like a Terrorist, You should soon be getting a visit from the FBI or Secret Service, but not until they've had their fun with paid Hookers from Colombia.
James Elliott Pimp Daddy West Ness
Vegas, Nevada
Murder is against the law in this country no matter the reason. This is all that matters.
Anyone who believes and wants to protest because it was an honor killing is just trying to stir crap up that simply does not matter. There was a murder and the courts dealt with it. Period. End of story. Time to go home. No reason to try to stir up religous beliefs you do not agree with.
Leave it to a bunch of libtards to try to make something out of nothing to fit their agenda.
I hate religion, it makes people crazy. Take all religious nutjobs and put them on an island, let them sort out whos god is what..... need a big friggen island though. You see Christians and Jews and Muslims spewing hatred on this thread. I would have to say to all of them, none of you are right! You are all nutjobs! Take your bible, koran or whatever makes you freaky and stick it up your (insert the right word).
Among all religions, Islam is the least compatible with the modern world. Islamic practices are dangerously stuck in the dark ages. it is extremely intolerant, extremely violent with a culture of death, and denies basic human rights. Willingly allowing Islam in a country is like willingly growing deadly cancer in a human body. Our country or any western country will be better off without Islam or Muslims.
Religion is one of the oldest money making schemes in the world. They are all equally violent, its just now that muslims are making the kind of money to get out of the stone age. So they can spread their hatred world wide. When they were broke, we didn't care they only killed themselves.
Christians have been killing around the world far longer than muslims. But they both have one thing in common, hate.
To prove that they hate, all you need to do is see them in public, going about their daily lives.
I don't care if they put up Christams trees or other signs of their religion in public, that doesn't bother me.
What bothers me about them is that they come to my door and act like they are better than me and are trying to save me from evil, and they are the only evil around at the time.....
There is a difference...Muslims will eventually kill you if you don't convert...In many Muslim dominated countries, Christians are given the choice "convert to Islam or die"....I don't see Christians making such demands....Did you know Muslims are withholding food deliveries to those Christians who refuse to become Muslims?...I bet there's as lot you don't know about Islam...
you may have forgotten that these Christian Crusaders had just endured 700 years of Muslim rule under which Christians were subjugated, intimidated, extorted, persecuted , punished and executed.. They were forced to be subserviant to Muslims and they were denied their basic human rights....The Crusaders kicked the Muslims out of Andulsia (modern day Spain) and persued them into the MiddleEast...
And btw...just how long did the Spanish Inquisition last? Do you know the answer? and what was the inevitable outcome of the Spanish Inquisition?....It may surprise you to know that Christianity survived and became better and much more civilized..
History is full of facts..you should spend some time studying it...
Funny, there is more hate towards Chirstians and somebody calling the nation a christian nation than there is for honor killings... hardly a mention of that.. but call the country christian? Holy cow, that will get people riled up... Know what else is funny? All the athtiest and anti religeon people who claim to be the compassionate ones are the first to line up and throw stones at Christians.. specially Catholics.. really a lot of haters there.. As a Catholic I'm starting to realize what it must have felt like to live in Berlin during the 1930s. All the hate is amazing.. Tolerance for everybody but Christians.
Hmm, those groups sure do plenty of hating and display their bigotry. Funny they should accuse others of that...but expected. The "protected" groups in our country and, especially, in our media, are always the first ones to insult others. Hypocrites.
Jessica's murder has nothing to do with race nor religion. It is about bringing her killer to justice. Muslim women have endured enough brutality by their religion, culture and family. Killing someone is a crime in the law abiding USA. Regardless of reason, there is no excuse with the exception of self-defense. We cannot allow criminals to justify their actions with their barbaric sharia law. It is time that we take a stand to get the message across that this barbaric practice is NOT acceptable in this law abiding nation.
This is Ms Gellers message...You must be agreeing with her....
Hello everybody,
I noticed that this has really turned from the protest to a religious debate. I am not knowledgeable in the Quaran but I know my fair share about the bible. Everyone wants to use things perpetrated by organized religious establishment as the belief for all of that religion. In the end it comes down to what you follow. If you follow the bible then follow it, if you follow the quaran then follow it, but know that Yashua the son of Yahova, kings of kings and lord of lords tells us, not to judge lest we be judged, (Be tolerant and understanding because no person is perfect). To love your neighbor as you love yourself (feed, clothe and comfort those around you as you do these things for yourself, the golden rule). To honor Yahova in the way that you live your life and in truth(Be honest in all that you do and give glory to Yahova). These are just some of the teachings that were given, for even in the old testimate Yahova Stated "I require mercy, not sacrifice". Even in the Old Testimate Yahova forgave those who came to him and repented,(turned away from) their sin (transgression of the law). So when you look at the crusades don't think Yashua Condoned it, instead look to the roman universal religious system that gripped Europe during the dark ages, the same system that had a hand in helping Islam develop. Also looking at the history of Islam do remember that there was a time just like the roman universal system where they were conquering nations and kills all those that did not convert. So what you do is look to what the teachings of these beliefs say. Christians say they follow Yashua, but do they do as he said. Islam extremist say they follow Muhammad, do they do as he said?
Point cut and clear is that it is very sad that the woman died and sad that people end up getting trapped in situations where their lives may be cut short. But please remember that every person is convinced of their own belief and wanting to "FORCE" someone to change their belief is tyranny. So let the Muslims believe what they will, let the Christians believe what they will and let the law of the land govern people and give rights to the people. If someones religion would cause them to not follow the laws of a nation, then that religious belief has no place in that society as it would breed people of who are against that nation and cause dissent. So for any person who comes to America from another country or is born here, the law is the law, either you follow it or you suffer the penalty. Religion should never be the exception to the law. If someone believes that their religious views take priority over the law then they should happily accept their punishment for fulfilling their religious obligation. After all that's what Yashua did, that's what the Apostles did.
Please forgive my bad grammer and spelling, it was never my strong point.
May Yahova Bless you all.
-Andrew
Then you are only half informed and in no way can sit in judgement of one religion or the other...better start doing your homework on the Qur'an and it's Shar'ia law ....
@pulsar182 I was not passing judgement on any religion just simply stating that people will do and will always continue to do what they believe in. If those beliefs are in contradiction with the law of the land and forces those people to do illegal actions, then they have no place in that society. This article is a case of "Murder" whether it was because of a cover-up of a previous crime or an "honor killing" is irrelevant. in the end there was a man who did what he did because of his own belief system. whether If his belief was honoring Islam or protecting himself is not the real issue. The point is that we have law for a reason, and no religious views, even my own, should be used to have a nation or authority pardon your action, a nation can not exist without laws and laws are pointless unless enforced by authorities. Therefor I was not passing judgement in my post, so please before saying such things you should read carefully. I promote religious tolerance and that is because it is not my place to change someones mind, if they want a change in their own life they will seek it and find what they are looking for.
What would you do if a significant organization infiltrates your country with the state goal of destroying from within...such as the Muslim Brotherhood with their Strategic Goal for America:
In July 2007, seven key leaders of an Islamic charity known as the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF) went on trial for charges that they had: (a) provided "material support and resources" to a foreign terrorist organization (namely Hamas); (b) engaged in money laundering; and (c) breached the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, which prohibits transactions that threaten American national security. Along with the seven named defendants, the U.S. government released a list of approximately 300 "unindicted co-conspirators" and "joint venturers." During the course of the HLF trial, many incriminating documents were entered into evidence. Perhaps the most significant of these was "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Group in North America," by the Muslim Brotherhood operative Mohamed Akram.
Written sometime in 1987 but not formally published until May 22, 1991, this 18-page document listed the Brotherhood's 29 likeminded "organizations of our friends" that shared the common goal of dismantling American institutions and turning the U.S. into a Muslim nation. These "friends" were identified by Akram and the Brotherhood as groups that could help convince Muslims "that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house by their hands … so that … God's religion [Islam] is made victorious over all other religions."
Akram was well aware that in the U.S., it would be extremely difficult to promote Islam by means of terror attacks. Thus the "grand jihad" that he and his Brotherhood comrades envisioned was not a violent one involving bombings and shootings, but rather a stealth (or "soft") jihad aiming to impose Islamic law (Sharia) over every region of the earth by incremental, non-confrontational means, such as working to "expand the observant Muslim base"; to "unify and direct Muslims' efforts"; and to "present Islam as a civilization alternative." At its heart, Akram's document details a plan to conquer and Islamize the United States – not as an ultimate objective, but merely as a stepping stone toward the larger goal of one day creating "the global Islamic state."
In line with this objective, Akram and the Brotherhood resolved to "settle" Islam and the Islamic movement within the United States, so that the Muslim religion could be "enabled within the souls, minds and the lives of the people of the country." Akram explained that this could be accomplished "through the establishment of firmly-rooted organizations on whose bases civilization, structure and testimony are built." He urged Muslim leaders to make "a shift from the collision mentality to the absorption mentality," meaning that they should abandon any tactics involving defiance or confrontation, and seek instead to implant into the larger society a host of seemingly benign Islamic groups with ostensibly unobjectionable motives; once those groups had gained a measure of public acceptance, they would be in a position to more effectively promote societal transformation by the old Communist technique of "boring from within."
"The heart and the core" of this strategy, said Akram, was contingent upon these groups' ability to develop "a mastery of the art of 'coalitions.'" That is, by working synergistically they could complement, augment, and amplify one another's efforts. Added Akram: "The big challenge that is ahead of us is how to turn these seeds or 'scattered' elements into comprehensive, stable, 'settled' organizations that are connected with our Movement and which fly in our orbit and take orders from our guidance." The ultimate objective was not only an enlarged Muslim presence, but also implementation of the Brotherhood objectives of transforming pluralistic societies, particularly America, into Islamic states, and sweeping away Western notions of legal equality, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, and freedom of speech.
Akram and the Brotherhood understood that in order to succeed in this endeavor, they needed to appeal to different strata of the American population in different ways; that whereas some people could be influenced by messages delivered from a religious perspective, others would be more responsive to messages delivered by educators, or bankers, or political figures, or journalists, etc. Thus, Akram's blueprint for the advancement of the Islamic movement stressed the need to form a coalition of groups coming from the worlds of education; religious proselytization; political activism; audio and video production; print media; banking and finance; the physical sciences; the social sciences; professional and business networking; cultural affairs; the publishing and distribution of books; children and teenagers; women's rights; vocational concerns; and jurisprudence.
By promoting the Islamic movement on such a wide variety of fronts, the Brotherhood and its allies could multiply exponentially their influence. Toward that end, the Akram/Brotherhood "Explanatory Memorandum" named the following 29 groups as the organizations they believed could collaborate effectively to destroy America from within – "if they all march according to one plan":
Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), ISNA Fiqh Committee (now known as the Fiqh Council of North America), ISNA Political Awareness Committee, Muslim Youth of North America, Muslim Students Association of the U.S. and Canada, Association of Muslim Scientists and Engineers, Islamic Medical Association (of North America), Islamic Teaching Center, Malaysian Islamic Study Group, Foundation for International Development, North American Islamic Trust, Islamic Centers Division, American Trust Publications, Audio-Visual Center, Islamic Book Service, Islamic Circle of North America, Muslim Arab Youth Association, Islamic Association for Palestine, United Association for Studies and Research, International Institute of Islamic Thought, Muslim Communities Association, Association of Muslim Social Scientists (of North America), Islamic Housing Cooperative, Muslim Businessmen Association, Islamic Education Department, Occupied Land Fund (later known as the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development), Mercy International Association, Baitul Mal Inc., Islamic Information Center (of America)
By setting up these many front groups, the Muslim Brotherhood was emulating the Communist Party tactic of creating interlocking front groups during the Cold War in order to confuse its enemies and make it more difficult to combat.
Very interesting I would be curious to read more on the matter, do you have any sources or links I could look at to further expand my knowledge on the issue. If this is the case then of course it would point to that the islamic religio/government system is trying to absorb the united states. A tactic like this does promote the house of islam and the house of war. I think what is really needed is that if the people and the government know these things then they can be sure to not put in place any law that can cause it to honor a religious establishment over the other. If America falls because of the inability of the people to stand up for what our great country was founded on, then we do no deserve to have this country anyway. But I truley am interested in reading more about this, so could you please provide me with some sources where I can get more information.
Recommended Books: Jihad
Willful Blindness by Andrew C. McCarthy
America Alone by Mark Steyn
They Must Be Stopped by Brigitte Gabriel
Jihad Incorporated: A Guide to Militant Islam in the US by Steven Emerson
Now They Call Me Infidel: Why I Renounced Jihad for America, Israel, and the War on Terror by Nonie Darwish
Understanding Jihad by David Cook
Infiltration: How Muslim Spies and Subversives have Penetrated Washington by Paul Sperry
Future Jihad: Terrorist Strategies Against America by Walid Phares
The Losing Battle with Islam by David Selbourne
Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America by Brigitte Gabriel
Defeating Jihad: How the War on Terrorism Can Be Won — in Spite of Ourselves by Serge Trifkovic
American Jihad: The Terrorists Living Among Us by Steven Emerson
Jihad in the West: Muslim Conquests from the 7th to the 21st Centuries by Paul Fregosi
Militant Islam Reaches America by Daniel Pipes
Recommended Books: Dhimmitude
The Dhimmi: Jews & Christians Under Islam by Bat Ye’or
Londonistan by Melanie Phillips
While Europe Slept by Bruce Bawer
The Force of Reason by Oriana Fallaci
The Rage and the Pride by Oriana Fallaci
Eurabia: The Euro-Arab Axis by Bat Ye’or
Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilizations Collide by Bat Ye’or
The Decline of Eastern Christianity Under Islam: From Jihad to Dhimmitude by Bat Ye’or
Recommended Books: Muhammad and Islam
Understanding Muhammad by Ali Sina
Cruel and Usual Punishment: The Terrifying Global Implications of Sharia Law by Nonie Darwish
Infidel by Ayaan Hirsi Ali
The Origins of the Koran: Classic Essays on Islam’s Holy Book edited by Ibn Warraq
The Quest for the Historical Muhammad edited by Ibn Warraq
Religion of Peace?: Islam’s War Against the World by Gregory M. Davis
The Sword of the Prophet: History, Theology, Impact on the World by Serge Trifkovic
Why I Am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq
What the Koran Really Says: Language, Text, and Commentary edited by Ibn Warraq
Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out edited by Ibn Warraq
The Early Development of Mohammedanism by David S. Margoliouth
Mohammed and the Rise of Islam by David S. Margoliouth
this country was founded on religious freedom. It has no one religion. Never Did. We do not have a christian nation. We have a FREE nation. I dont really care what religion anyone wants to practice. There are many that I do find strange to bizarre. I dont understand why anyone would want more than one wife. I sure aint going to let a rattle snake bite me. I do believe strongly in a seperation between church and state. I also believe if your giong to live in this country you must abide by the laws in this country. We have laws prohibiting more than one wife. We have laws prohibiting murder. Honor killings in this country are going to be considered Murder. It comes with a consequence of prision. Follow the law
Islam is church, state, judge, jury and executioner all rolled into one supremacist organization in which you have no rights...start doing your homework on the Qur'an and its Shar'ia law....
IRAN'S AYATOLLAH KHOMENEI ON WHAT ISLAM MEANS FOR MUSLIMS:
Islam makes it incumbent on all adult males, provided they are not disabled or incapacitated, to prepare themselves for the conquest of [other] countries so that the writ of Islam is obeyed in every country in the world. . . .
But those who study Islamic Holy War will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. . . . Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless. Islam says: Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by [the unbelievers]? Islam says: Kill them [the non-Muslims], put them to the sword and scatter [their armies]. Does this mean sitting back until [non-Muslims] overcome us?
Islam says: Kill in the service of Allah those who may want to kill you! Does this mean that we should surrender [to the enemy]? Islam says: Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword and in the shadow of the sword!
People cannot be made obedient except with the sword! The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! There are hundreds of other [Qur'anic] psalms and Hadiths [sayings of the Prophet] urging Muslims to value war and to fight. Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war? I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.
--Ayatollah Khomenei - Amir Taheri's book,Holy Terror: Inside the World of Islamic Terrorism, Adler & Adler, 1987, pp. 241-3.
Okay, first fact YOU cannot and never ever should trust a muslim! First the bull that they are a peaceful religion is a big LIE! If you are shared their belief and do not embrace it yourself-then they believe that they are obligated to kill YOU! Also, under what is called HUDNA(spelling) as a muslim I can make any and all agreement, deals, etc but since YOU are not a believer I am not OBLIGATED to honor that agreement!?? Sounds like those same that attack Isreal and get their butts kicked and suddenly want to have a peace negotiation???? What about the previous agreement?? NOT obligated to KEEP it with YOU! Women are PROPERTIES in the same rank as animals?? Why do women convert to this? Notice that anything that people stand up against in now all HATE crimes? Before many of you bleeding hearts defend the po muslims-where were they when 9/11 happened? Were they protesting against it? ALso go to Dearborne an visit-go to the muslim communities and witness the publically "preaching" Death to America, etc" Hey, you shrimps as the great REVEREND John Wayne said-"America either LOVE it Leave IT". Also for those of you not up on your history, Did you know that a major SS group that killed Jews was operated by IMAM and fellow muslims??? It was on History channel not too long ago with video footage of these wonderful peaceful loving men. Want to know why we are still in Afhganistan because them suckas cannot read so cannot verify what the leaders are "preaching". Plus we have to take them by the hand and teach them how to shoot where in America-we give them a book-"read chapters A-C" tomorrow we go over and practice?? I guess they will alway be dumb as look at how far BEHIND in times they are in technology, knowledge, etc.
ALL THE LIBERAL UNEDUCATED LIES ABOUT WHO THE FOUNDERS WERE AND THE CONSTANT BRAVO SIERRA SPEWED FORTH FROM THE LIBERALS ABOUT THE FOUNDING FATHERS NOT BEING CHRISTIAN. I didn't write this I am just posting it to inform the LEFTISTS that their EDUCATION SUCKS
Were Founding Fathers Diests?
The answer is absolutely no.
John Jay, Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison are the "Founding Fathers", they wrote the US Constitution, and they were all Christians, James Madison argued that it was the duty of the States but not the Federal Government, to encourage morality, and spirituality and religiousity.
Now if we want to expand our definition to mean any of the major players of the Revolutionary War...the Answer is still no but a little more vague.
We know that Thomas Jefferson was virtually a diest, but whether or not he rejected the divine providence of God, or just the dogma of Christianity is not fully certain, it's pretty well assured that he still believed in the divine providence of God and therefore was not a Diest.
Benjamin Franklin certainly wasn't, and in his epitaph referred to God as his author.
George Washington was the leader of a Parish of the Episcopalian faith.
In truth, you cannot find one single person invovled in the founding of the United States that was a "Diest" or at least a professed Diest...you can certainly find people opposed to various aspects of Christianity but that doesn't mean they are Diests or even non-Christian, many Christians are famous for criticizing aspects of Christianity...
No one would argue that Calvin was not a Christian...or Martin Luther.
So bottom line...the Founding Fathers were Christians. This only makes sense considering the fact that the United States was extremely religious during the Revoultionary war...the fact that the first act of establishing the Continental Army by the Congress was to establish the pay for Chaplains in the military should be evidendce of religiosity...
Not to mention the first act of Congress as a new nation was to determine that Christianity should be brought to the "Native Americans".
The point is more men kill women everyday no matter what religion or race. Maybe all women need guns to even out the playing field...
Its true and sad that men who are supposed to work with their spouses instead choose to try and dominate them and when their attempts fail women get killed, children get broken bones trying to defend their family from tyrants. Women get brutally beaten protecting their kids. Just because someone is a "head of the house" does not mean that they need to be tyrants or violent. It simply means that they need to step up and show their spouses and children what it truley mean to be an adult. To show others that you can live in this violent and cruel world with compassion and love. Perhaps one day when humans decide to stop trying to control each other we can have real progress and and increase in happiness.
To all muslims and christians and jews reading this thread, you are all being brainwashed by the leaders in your churches, or whatever your religion calls the building that breeds hate that you belong to.
It seems that some don't like to look at facts and find it easier to label the problems associated with terrorism as a fobia. It is a simple fact that all of the wars going on in the world seem to be related to the religion of Islam. Not all, but many Muslims seem to find it difficult to simply state that Israel has the right to exist. The fact is that many do NOT believe that Israel has a right to exist. If they can agree that Israel has the right to exist, then I think those people should be left alone to practice their religion in peace as well. Many Muslims call the United States the big Satan and Israel the Little Satan. So, really, who is the biggot here? They seem to find difficulty in condemning terrorism as well. Well, if they don't condemn it, then I suppose they agree with it. I think if they want to live by the laws in the US, that is fine. If they want to live by the laws of another country then they should go live there. I hope that this guy that killed this girl rots in prison.
After reading many of the posts the one glaring message that I get is that many of the posters don't even consider the plight of these women who are being murdered. In Islam a man owns a woman's body once he marries her. Rape does not exist in marriage and satisfying honor is more important than a woman's right to choose what happens to her.
Do we as Americans want this behavior to be pushed under the rug and a distractive argument used instead that says if anyone speaks out about it then they are a bigot or racist or an ignorant Islamic phobic? How long do we allow this oppressive misogynistic attitude to be given the look the other way approach?
What any group does in our country is OUR BUSINESS and it is OUR RIGHT to expect OUR LAWS be obeyed regardless of any opposing cultural or religious practices.
That is the truth, religion or cultural beliefs to should not stop a government, its authorities and its people from enforcing its laws. You can either obey the law or not be a part of our society.
Absolutely. But this stand should be taken against Christianophobes as well, (and any other "ophobes" groups), not only Islamophobes. We should respect each other's religion and/or beliefs (including atheism).
I think it is also time for the muslim community to take a stand every time there is an honor killing (because indeed it does happen), and every time any person or group (or even country) receives death threats from muslims extremists, either for being non-muslim, or for making a joke about Muhammad, or for disagreeing with something in the Qur'an and/or Hadith (etc), or for any other reason. It is time the muslim community stand up to denounce vehemently any form of violence (and threats of violence) by muslim extremists, and let people know that it horrifies them just as much as anyone else, muslims and non-muslims alike. Considering how the actions and threats of these muslim extremists affects their reputation and every day life, I think this should be one of the priorities. Fundamentalist/extremist muslims clerics should be shrugged upon by muslim communities, denounced (to authorities when applicable), and banned from mosques. Peaceful muslims must reclaim their religion, it must be clear that they condemn the actions of extremists/fundamentalists.
About shariah law; under shariah law women are not considered equal to men, according to islamic (sharia) law the testimony of a woman is worth half that of a man (sometimes 4 women are required to equal the testimony of one man, and the testimony of a non-muslim will not even be considered), men are allowed to marry 4 women (which doesn't mean that all muslim men do of course, and obviously I am talking about muslim countries as this is illegal in the U.S.) while women are not allowed to marry more then one man (not that I would want to), under sharia law (and especially in muslim countries) it is difficult for a woman to get a divorce unless the husband agrees, while a man can decide unilaterally to divorce, if a brother and sister are to receive an inheritance the sister will receive only half the portion of the brother, and the list of inequalities goes on. For all these reasons and others, personally I am against shariah law. See the blogs Muslims against Sharia Law and other similar blogs and websites.
And for the time being I don't know enough about Pamela Geller, nor the circomstances of Jessica Mokdad's death, to have an educated opinion about either. However honour killings and mutilations indeniably do happen, you can visit the sites
http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/ and http://www.stophonourkillings.com/index.php , for information about many cases.
And a great example of peace and tolerance, among people who would have all reasons to hate each other, people who have lost a child (or more) due to the conflict Israel/Palestine, the website The parents circle http://www.theparentscircle.com/ , Bereaved israeli and palestinian families supporting peace, reconciliation, and tolerance. If only we could all follow their example, the world would be more peaceful. God bless them.
Quinn K.
This is true. However if I judge from your statement, you seem to think that there is as many extremists in every religion (or maybe I misunderstood), and I tend to disagree, eventho I wish I could agree with you. To prove (even if only to yourself) that what you just said is true, I dare you to go stand in a crowded area in New York, to make jokes and say a few bad things about Jesus, and burn a Bible. After you are done, get a ticket to Iraq (or Afghanistan, or Iran, or other country where the majority of people are muslims), once you are there, go stand in a crowded area, make a few jokes and say a few bad things about Muhammad, and burn a Qur'an. You will probably realise rather quickly why I suggested you go to New York first. (Note that the reaction you may get from muslims in some of the middle-eastern countries will likely be different then the reaction of peaceful american muslims, you could probably do this in the U.S. without putting your life in danger, or at least american muslims would not be the ones whom you should fear after doing such a thing).
Note that I do not mean that we should disrespect each other's religion, and I am not actually telling you to do what I just said, my point is only that we should be able to do so without receiving death threats, and without putting our life in danger.
They do take a stand...just not in the way you are expecting...
I am not sure what you mean. My friends (and myself) do so through blogs, websites, Twitter, Facebook (and other networks), and videos.
P.s. if you took the time to read my incredibly long post, thank you :)
Anna I read your post and thank you for the websites and other information. However, I must say that Muslims look the other way for two basic reasons. The first reason is within the Quran. Criticizing it or siding against their own in favor of a non believer is forbidden. The second reason is that they are afraid of repercussions if they do speak out. This is the turmoil that has been allowed to migrate to our country.
If you think that Muslims are going to change their core belief then I would caution you that only a small percentage are capable of doing this. Those that do are either very brave or have the means and intelligence to protect themselves from attack. When a child is raised on their knees under threat of death it has a profound effect on the psyche.
fight for freedom-2341533
So mainly (regardless of the excuses and/or reasons), if I understand correctly you are saying that a majority of muslim immigrants are themselves guilty of segregationism, discrimination, partiality, and favoritism (for muslims vs non-muslims), while expecting others not only to tolerate this, but also not to treat them in the same unfair manner. Or did I misunderstand?
If you are correct, what then would be the solution? Is there even a solution?
Here in Italy we had some cases of honor killing in Muslim families not denied by the murderers. One of these cases was particularly brutal and shocked us. It was about a Pakistan girl, Hena Saleem, (you can find her case on the internet). She was 20 and decided not to follow Muslim tradition, dress like an Italian girl and also had an Italian boyfriend with whom she lived. The family decided to kill her. Her father and other male members lured her home with a trick and there she was stabbed and buried in the backyard with the face in the direction of the Mecca. They had planned to sell their house and come back to Pakistan, but the plan failed because the Italian boy friend went to the police claiming she was missing. At the trial her father said that he did not regret what he had done and when he got 30 years of prison (too bad we have no death penalty) his wife( and mother of the poor girl) cried for his fate; in her opinion, he does not deserve prison because he did his duty. She did not have any sorrow for her daughter. As you can see there is an abyss between our cultures. One of my friends gave hospitality to a Somali family for many months before they moved to the Netherlands. They decided to leave their 16 year old daughter with her in Italy. When they were asked how my friend should behave with the teen in case she found herself a boyfriend, they answered: nothing in particular, the only thing you must remember is that in case the boy is not Muslim, she must die. This was told as a normal, ordinary thing of everyday life.
Wow! That is messed up.
NO,,That is Islam...
Unfortunately there is many cases similar to the one you mention, and cases of mutilations.
Here are 2 websites about this http://www.violenceisnotourculture.org/ and http://www.stophonourkillings.com/index.php
If you are worried about clicking on the links simply do a search for "violence is not our culture" and "stop honour killings", you should find these 2 websites easily.
I cannot even express in words how horrified I am at the thought that family members can murder their own "loved ones", and even think for one second that they did the right thing. They are despicable.
And with these kinds of headlines, these kinds of comments and these kinds of actions, is it any wonder that it's kinda braggin dat I'm not a 'people' person?
God Bless America!! I have read hateful words against Christians here and it hurts. Christian and Muslim are nothing similar. If you speak of Christians killing as Muslims do, then prove it. Refer to an article where a faithful christian attending church on Sundays and praising God has taken the life of a gay son or lesbian daughter or anyone else for that matter. I couldn't find any. Sharia law is real and if you don't believe it look up latest news out of Egypt , recently gained control by the Muslim brotherhood. To the religion haters, you spew more hate than anyone here. You should go to church and learn to love your fellow man!
I'm not going to waste time reading all the pages. Those I've read are full of apologists and others.
If they took the time to study muslim and islamic teachings they might have a clue what is said.
The language, religion, and politics are one. There is no seperation. There is no division between their language and the koran telling them what is good or what is bad.
islam is good, anything else is bad and should be killed, mutilated, raped and killed, or subverted.
The inquisition of the dark ages showed the same thing for hundreds of years. However, those times are past. Islam wants to go back to 541AD. When the last disciple of their prophet died.
Talib, 4th "Rightly Guided Calif" died in 541AD and his successor became a dispute between the Persians and Arabs, Shia and Sunni for a successor. It is still a conflict between the two and murders amongst them.
The Talib`an are just a segment of the regressiveness of the religion, sharia laws, and the so called "Arab Spring" and what is happening in the Syrian conflict, Turkey, Sudan, and Somalia, etc. are just a continuation.
A squirrel, if he is wise, has "catophobia" or a fear of cats. Fear of heights in humans is a natural and normal fear. There's nothing "hateful" or "irrational" about fear.
A Christian (or a jew, or an atheist) in Nigeria would be very wise to have "islamophobia" right now, as Christians are being blown to pieces in their churches as they worship...by terrorists from a religion that is founded upon the principle that it's okay to kill/persecute/terrorize non islamic people. Anywhere Islam becomes a majority religion, all people of other religions are persecuted.
This has been happening for over 1400 years, all over the world, and it is still happening today. Islam is a predatory religion. And a lot of cultures and millions upon millions of people and religions have been eliminated because they didn't have enough "Islamophobia"
It is completely normal to have fear of a predator. And it is hateful to reason and logic to suggest that there is anything hateful about the perfectly rational and logical fear, otherwise known as "Islamophobia."
TO ALL THE PEOPLE WHO THINK ISLAM IS JUST LIKE ANY OTHER RELIGION:
Think again. It is not. As in the roach motel ads, Islam is the only religion that once you check-in and join, you can not check-out and get out without fear of getting killed by Muslims. And if given the chance, Many Muslims will kill you if you decide you no longer want to be a Muslim.
This is something that dates back to the time of Islam's Prophet Muhammad.. At that time, to keep his follwers in check and assure that their numbers continue to grow, Muhammad decreed that if you join Islam, you can not leave. Muhammad ordered that any of his followers who decided they no longer want to be a Muslim and reject Islam be killed. He even enshrined this in the Quran. In the Quoran, Surah 4:89 states... "Those who reject Islam must be killed. If they turn back (from Islam), take (hold of) them and kill them wherever you find them..."
Since this is something that was a direct order from Islam's prophet Muhammad himself, many Muslims around the world today continue to follow this order to kill any one who becomes a Muslim and then later reject Islam and decide he or she no longer want to be a Muslim.
You can be a Buddhist and decide you no longer wish to practice Buddhism, nothing will happen to you, you have nothing to fear, and no one will want to kill you for it.
You can be a Christian and decide you no longer wish to practice Christianity, nothing will happen to you, you have nothing to fear, and no one will want to kill you for it.
You can be a Hindu and decide you no longer wish to practice Hinduism, nothing will happen to you, you have nothing to fear, and no one will want to kill you for it.
You can be a Jew and decide you no longer wish to practice Judaism, nothing will happen to you, you have nothing to fear, and no one will want to kill you for it.
But you can NOT be a Muslim and decide you no longer wish to practice Islam. You risk getting injured if not killed, you have plenty to fear, and many Muslims will want to kill you for it.
I have watched several documentaries and read some articles about this and it does seem to add up. Talk about the house of Islam and the house of war. Of course one thing that I appreciate is that instead of just quoting something you provide a verse. So i will provide a website so that people can read what you have posted and research. this site should help those who find someone posting verses and wishes to educate themselves. What yourfreespeech1776 is saying is true and can be found
it didn't let me post my link :)
sorry for troubles, still would not post my link :P
www . quranexplorer . com /quran/
Yet again dont confuse religion with men killing women. Its not about religion its about control. If men who on the most part are physically stronger and supposed to protect women then why do many of them kill us ? It takes the strong men to question their gender and deal with them. If they cant handle it then one day the women of the world will.
:"Yet again dont confuse religion with men killing women. Its not about religion its about control."
Islam is all about control...and honor killing are a part of it;
I say that they shouldent be here either.....now before you all say im full of hate and wrong i want you to look at something for one second. For an islamic or muslim to go to their version of a heaven they are spose to die while killing an infidel or something just in terms of killing an infidel. Now what is the definition of an infidel you ask? (in Muslim use) a person who does not accept the Islamic faith. So you all really have no problem backing a religion whos way of getting into their heaven is to kill YOU, thats right to kill you is how they get to heaven now im not to fond of the idea so call me a hater or bigot for my tought but ill just call you stupid for supporting a religion based on blowing you up