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Subscribe to RSSA man is mourning the deaths of his wife, daughter and five other family members who were killed when their SUV plunged off an overpass near New York City's Bronx Zoo. NBC's Jeff Rossen reports.
The section of highway where an accident sent seven members of a Bronx family flying over a guardrail and plummeting to their deaths has narrow lanes, steep hills, tight turns, inadequate guardrails and no breakdown lane, an auto safety group said Monday.
The Bronx River Parkway "lacks modern transportation engineering features," said Robert Sinclair, spokesman for the American Automobile Association's New York City affiliate. He said it was conceived in 1907 and opened in 1925 as "the first limited access multilane highway in the U.S."
Three sections of the parkway in the Bronx, including one at or near the accident site, are on the state Transportation Department's 5 Percent List, a federally mandated report of locations "exhibiting the most severe highway safety needs."
The driver, Maria Gonzalez, clipped a highway divider and damaged a tire Sunday afternoon before her SUV plunged off a highway and six stories down into a ravine on the grounds of the Bronx Zoo, killing three generations of a family, including three children, police said.
The overpass close to the Bronx Zoo has been the site of serious automobile accidents in recent years, although evidence of neglect stretches back into the 1970s, The New York Daily News reported.
Critics contend that city and state officials failed to act despite the string of deaths, according to the the newspaper.
"I've actually walked that parkway on foot. It is an amalgam of patchwork and Band-Aid repairs. You have plates, and it's like the roadway is in sections. One section doesn’t necessarily meet up with the other," lawyer Jeff Korek, who is suing the city after a 2006 wreck at the same spot that killed six people, told the Daily News.
'I don't want to live': Families mourn 7 killed in Bronx crash
"It’s really a section of roadway that has to be improved," he said. "A proper safety review of this roadway would have prevented many deaths, including these latest."
Family members of those killed on Sunday seemed inclined to agree with Korek's assessment.
Juan Gonzalez, the driver's husband, blamed the state, at least in part, for the crash.
"He says it's very careless of the state to let that happen," a relative said, translating Gonzalez's Spanish at a funeral home. "There's been several incidents before this. Accidents such as this and they haven't done anything to prevent this."
Louis Lanzano / AP
Police investigate the destroyed van that plunged over the Bronx River Parkway, Sunday April 29, 2012, in New York. Authorities say the out-of-control van plunged off a roadway near the Bronx Zoo, killing seven people, including three children. (AP Photo/ Louis Lanzano)
The state Department of Transportation's only comment was an email message that said, "We are working closely with all agencies involved to determine the cause of this tragic accident."
On the highway, just before the accident site, is a sign that warns of "Limited Sight Distance" on the six-lane parkway, which runs north-south between the south Bronx and central Westchester County.
Second in past year
The accident was the second in the past year where a car fell off the same stretch of the parkway; the earlier accident wasn't fatal. In 2006, six people were killed on the parkway when one car crossed the median into oncoming traffic.
Police said Maria Gonzalez of the Bronx was driving south at 68 mph when she bumped a concrete barrier separating the north- and southbound lanes. With one tire damaged, her Honda Pilot skittered across three lanes of traffic, hit a 2-foot-high concrete curb and went airborne, clearing a 4-foot-tall guardrail.
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"It is very strange that there is a curb there," Sinclair said. "You don't put curbs on high-speed roadways because they can serve as launching pads, which appears to be what happened here. A big Honda Pilot flew over a 4-foot guardrail."
He said the guardrail should be higher on an elevated roadway.
Gonzalez was driving well above the posted 50 mph limit, but speeding is common at that point and she may have been simply keeping up with traffic, said New York Police Department spokesman Paul Browne. He said there was no evidence Gonzalez was texting, on a phone or had been drinking. Toxicology tests are pending.
"There's no evidence of a mechanical failure," he added.
The medical examiner's office on Monday ruled the deaths accidental. Autopsies showed that all seven died from blunt force trauma.
The NYPD's accident investigation squad found "yaw marks" on the road, he said. He said they indicate a vehicle going perpendicular to traffic.
All the victims were wearing seat belts.
They were identified as Jacob Nunez, 85, and Ana Julia Martinez, 81, who were visiting from the Dominican Republic; their daughters, Gonzalez, 45, and Maria Nunez, 39, and three grandchildren. The children were Jocelyn Gonzalez, 10, the daughter of the driver, and Niely Rosario, 7, and Marly Rosario, 3, both daughters of Nunez.
Msnbc.com staff and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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I think poor driving contributed to the accident.
Even so We have BILLIONS for our ENEMIES like the Muslim Brotherhood in $hitistan and Egypt but NO MONEY when it comes to fixing OUR infrastructure. Thanks again Marxist Obangy.
Yeah, perfect. We'll have all kinds of people talking about deflecting blame and exactly whose fault it was and here is the dumb @!$%# moron blaming Obama. Just perfect!
BlueLake
Sickening, isn't it? It's nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion here.
Sounds like another "shovel ready" project that the right won't let be fixed. They'd rather give money to big corps. than fix our own problems. As usual.
Maintaining roadways was one of the first tax collection bases...some places where I live Id rather drive on the moon..I have a friend who pays 100's of thousands of dollars in taxes every year but the city refuses to up date the road in front of his multy million dollar apartment complexes but yet I notice the city Trucks are updated every year..
Whew.....and here I was worried no one would blame the President for this accident! Wow....glad I'm not disappointed!!! {insert dripping sarcasm here!!}
Hmm... I seem to recall Obama wanting to pass a jobs bill that would've put quite a substantial amount of money into infrastructure projects like roads and bridges.
Somehow I seem to recall one of our political parties being AGAINST that bill.... who was that again? Oh yeah.... REPUBLICANS.
On the related subject, when you refer to the president as "Obangy," I can't help but see you as an immature child who isn't capable of intelligent conversation. So please, just sit down at the kiddies table and let the adults talk, please.
Having grown up in that area, and driven that road and still do drive that road, I can assure you that it is essentially a death trap. The article notes that police said.. the area is known for speeding and she simply may have been keeping up with traffic.. Bull Shxt! There is a NYC precint on the Highway and there is nearly zero police to keep the law breakers in check.
What a combination, she is speeding; the higway is a death trap and not an officer to be found.. Put the blame where ever. The fact(s) remain: there is little regard for the law and hence if I can break it and get away with it, I, the operative word in today's society, am good. Police are bogged down by concern for the criminal rather than the victim, that they function on the squeeky wheel principle.. And yes, the "I" mentality pervades their world too. And lastly, seems like NYC, NY State and our administration haven't done the job of caring for the MAJORITY.. ask yourself, where are the "Shovel Ready Dollars" in this case??? Obummer is not responsible for the condition of the highway, and there are a bunch of "killerS", in NYS.. His Department of Transportation and Safety should be forcing delinquent local government to spend the Federal monies on "Quality" repairs and improvements.
I guess it is ok not to face yet another FAIL by local government since the problem has existed since 1925!
what happened with the portion of funding that New York got from the $831B in stimulus funds already? What happened annually with the $'s that NY collects in gas tax for road maintenance?
And driving 18 miles an hour over the posted speed limit and it's the state's fault?
Prayers to remaining family members who were not involved in the accident.
For everyone screaming shovel ready.... is there a plan in place? If so, what are the underlying problems with executing the plan? Contracts, Equipment, Logistics, NIMBY?
For example.. the Brent Spence bridge in Cincinnati has been inadequate since opening in the 70's. Not to mention it is an identical bridge to the one in Louisville that has been shut down for two years.
People here are screaming for their piece of the pie as well, but the projects aren't shovel ready since it takes years of planning, coordination and contracting to make these improvements.
I do not know that road, I have not driven it, however, on a unknown road, I tend to use the right lane and drive slower, especially if it's curvy and the cargo is valuable. It is understandable the mindset of the Husband, He has lost everything....AAANY tunes in with its comments.....yet their own sister club AAA Mid Atlantic is in court for sending a contractor that killed the member with her own car and yet they failed to put procedures in place to prevent it from re-ocurring as I have a video of it being allowed to potentially happen again. AAA should look at its own policies....and procedures as well the AAA members should ask their particular club what procedures do they have in place with their own fleet as well as the contractors they use to train the driver showing up to ensure the members safety. Also the members should ask what AAA had Sterling research group doing with their information on the survey program while this company was listing it as a data mining program in which they utilized false inofrmation knowing it was false. How do I know? here is a verification from a AAA rep that the survey was not taken by the member or anyone in their household, but they used this survey anyway...... Do you ever wonder why once you get your car towed, it seems to keep happening? Google AAA Mid Atlantic as well as check out all the reports for your local club....I would look at alternatives.... I believe if all members of AAA asked what the Sterling Research program was and how their information was used, a new light may be on bright. How many times a day does AAA allow a member to stand in a position of potentially being injured while loading the members vehicle on the tow truck? Does anyone know? Wouldn't a story of putting a procedure in place to prevent such tragedies be better than a story of another person dead? Shouldn't AAA let us all know what the Sterling research program was and how it was used not only for contractors but members? And why did they use the false info after they found out it was false? And why did they shut it down when I pointed out several factors they didn't think anyone would see?
Everything in the article are reasons why they shouldn't have been going 70mph as estimated. This is an urban highway. And no road has completely safe conditions. Slow down.
She was going about 20 mph over the posted limit on a known stretch of bad road that millions of people have successfully negotiated and somehow it is the state's fault she crashed and killed herself and several others.
Everybody had to know it would only take minutes for lawyers to jump into this fray. They know we are not responsible for our own actions. Especially if there is money to be made from someone's grief.
thinker;
Exactly. And since this is not an interstate, it is not a federally maintained road, It's up to the state of New York and the City of same. The leftist state. But, this can only be solved with money for the family. Never mind all the contributing factors by the driver, never mind since Everyone seems to know the road was bad, let's drive 20 mph above the posted speed. Oh crap, seven died, it must be the states fault, the car makers fault, the tire makers fault, anyone's fault but the distracted, speeding, probably on the phone moron at the controls of the car. Clearly driver error, but someone, anyone, preferably everyone must pay for their short comings, don't they? Yeah, right. Let's reward stupidity with tons of cash, that way they'll be a better class of idiot in future generations.
There is a lor more blame in Albany than In Washington.
Congrats NY your taxes just went up. I see MORE major road work in your future.
I have driven this road several times in rental cars while speeding and here i sit in 72* of Florida sunshine safe back at home in one piece. My job requires me to travel to AFBs all around the world driving roads in South America, Gwam, Hawaii, and places most of you people don't even know there is a base. If you think the roads in NYC are bad you have never really traveled.
Bottom line is she was speeding so the state has no guilt. Maybe she could have corrected in time after the initial impact at a lower speed, maybe she would have have time to avoid the initial impact all together...
Nicodemus1946 - As you have pointed out, it is amazing how money eases the pain of stupid actions. The more the settlement, the greater the easing of pain.
However, our society will never be able to construct an idiot proof object because we keep breeding more clever idiots able to outwit the design safety engineers. As long as we have lawyers we will have unbounded acceptable levels of idiocy.
In our politically correct society we are not allowed to penalize stupidity but we certainly do reward it.
I believe the whole country is to blame. You cannot have a discussion about any subject without politics taking over the discussion.
In order to fix a problem (like a bad bridge) you have to have people admit that there is a problem and that's where the biggest problem lies. People can't agree on anything anymore so nothing gets done.
Or maybe she did nothing wrong and someone cut her off which caused her to hit the wall. The bottom line is the fact you weren't there which means you don't know what you're talking about.
Nicodemus1946 You are so poetic. Why I do believe human error is involved this man's entire family is gone and your lack of respect is appalling. The state is also partially responsible beings how their roads were not safe and properly maintained. The man, who by the way wasn't (in your words) being stupid or a moron. He wasn't even in the car so he's wouldn't be "rewarded" for his "stupidity". He would simply be paid off for suffering a tremendous loss. Let us not forget he has SEVEN people to bury ! Lastly I love how you rewrote the story and added that the driver was probably on the phone. SMH, God forbid this man should have any compassion from strangers at this difficult time lets call his dead wife names and decided that he is low class until he receives a pay out for his dead babies.
I agree. It is absolutely no fault to the driver at all. They should expect to drive 20 mph over the speed limit on a turn and not get hurt if they hit the divider and plung off the highway. Lets sue the car manufacturer since they should have survived 6 stories. How come the state doesn't install netting to catch the cars if they pole vault off the freeway?
And BS on the sign. I wonder if they could speak or read English. Why in the hell there wasn't spanish signs warning of the dangerous curve? It's never the driver's fault. /sarcasm
Can anyone entertain TWO thoughts at once?
Like driving fast was part of the problem AND the road was crap?! Typical dumb partisan controversy by the mediocre. Its easy. You shouldn't drive 70 miles per hour over a bumpy highway that isn't ever fixed properly, AND the highway shouldn't be left in a state of ruin.
No, but let's find a way to argue about sh*t. That's a good idea.
And if they closed down a few lanes to fix it, everyone would complain, and the construction workers would get killed by the non-english reading/speaking speeding motorists.
The husband may not wish to live any longer but when the ambulance chaser gets to him with an interpreter and calls for a class action suit benefitting all non-white people of the bronx, he will surely sign on.
Then the Governor will sign off on the law suit hoping to buy votes and donations for his future presidential run.
Maybe if they were in their own country and not in the U.S. illegally they would still be alive.
Try allowing a family some time to handle a huge loss before idiots decide it was done for money or blaming a car accident on politics.
wichasha to BlueLake
"Sickening, isn't it? It's nearly impossible to have an intelligent discussion here."
Well said! However, armchair fools commenting don't have the required intelligence. That is obvious.
Well...I'm sure we can all agree that they were speeding WAY over the limit...and that speed kills?
blackandgold wasn't to far off either
it don't matter if there was a 10 ft igh guard rail somebody will get tangled in it at some time
I feel sorry for there loss but on the other hand to go where they did someone wasnt driving responsibly
guard rails are not like a trampoline net
Ah and here comes Jackass...sorry I mean Jack Smith, with his "in their own country" comments. Beautiful. Simply beautiful.
Let's ignore the fact that 3 little kids were among those killed and focus instead on their nationality. Let me guess, you're a Christian too?
Disgusting.
And Jack Smith, you know their immigration status how?
Between Albany (the state capital) and New York City which is the the tail wagging the dog or vice versa?
And of course Jack Smith knows their immigration status right? Or is every spanish speaking person here illegaly? Lets see 2006 6 people die in accident on same stretch o9f road. Last year , people hurt on same stretch of road.
Granted they were going faster than the speed limit but what about the states responsibility to keep the roadways usable and in decent service?
The crash happened on Sunday and the father was blaming the state on Monday. Sounds like it didn't take him long to handle his loss...
This was 1 of the bridges President Obama wanted to fix in his infrastructure Bill and the Teaparty and the GNOP said no, It looks like those political partys have BLOOD on there hands, Shame on them something so easy to fix , 7 more dead Americans Blood on there hands
Larry 2260635,
If they were not speeding then being cut off wouldnt be as big of a deal. Its a fact that they were speeding not a guess. Its a fact that legally a lawyer could argue the speed was to blame and not the road. I travel for a living and have millions of miles logged on land, air, and sea so excuse me for giving my comment in the comment section.
By design if i dont know about it then neither do you so why can you comment but I cant? You MUST be a liberal hahaha.
SAVE THE COUNTRY !!!!! VOTE REPULICAN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why didn't the police arrest them for speeding BEFORE they flew the mini-van? Proper enforcement prevents senseless deaths.
There isn't enough money in the world to pay for absolute enforcement. The purpose of laws, regulations and legal limits is to provide parameters for voluntary compliance. Enforcement is just a lame stop-gap to try to provide some disincentive for selfishness, but it is not the means of precluding selfishness.
We need to stop the self-entitled mentality that pervades our society thinking that whatever they can get away with is a-o-kay. People inclined toward self-enrichment need to start respecting society and their neighbors more.
68 mi. an hr with 3 kids WOW . REST IN PEACE
If you've never driven that stretch of road you won't understand that you are liable to get run over if you DON"T drive at that speed. Similar to the Washington Beltway.
Sing... You don't get it..... No one will run you over for observing the speed limit! They may however ride your bumper, flash lights and honk horns.. Oh yeah, flip you the bird! ... AND so what...
The idea that all those scoff laws are OK because everyone else is doing it is way off base.
People need to begin to respect the law.. get off the tit... stop the "me first" crap and get on with being part of OUR country, state or city... In the USA, despite what our politicians think, it is about WE THE PEOPLE... this traffic thing is a symptom of the precise mentality that spurs special interest votes.. What can I get out of it and who can I elelct that will cater to ME... this is not just a highway construction issue or a need to be a bad driver because they all are bad drivers.. or an issue of the police not doing their job.. or local and national leadership, diverting funds and influence to "Their" constituants.. This can easily be described as an ethical issue. The public is so selfish that if they can get away with something they do it.. America is no longer the land of the free and the brave but a land of self centered citizens who: want it all, want it now and want it free
Sing - We have read how successful speeding was for her. Going the posted limit may irritate others but the posted limits are there for a reason. The road design and construction have been assessed to be the highest "safe" limits.
68 in a 50 zone? With elderly parents and kids in the car? On a narrow-laned and curved parkway? I'd say "driver idiocy" was the main cause of this accident. Millions of people drive that stretch of highway every day without incident. I've been driving for over 20 years without incident (with many trips on that very road where this accident happened), and that's partly because I know enough to move into the right lane and follow the speed limits when on narrow, highly curvy highways and/or parkways. My caution increases exponentially if I have passengers in the car. If any speeding idiots behind me don't like it, well...that's tough. Stick your horns and your middle fingers where the sun don't shine. It's sad that seven members of this family are now gone, but let's not let the driver off as totally blameless here, which I'm sure the vultu...uh, lawyers, will try to do.
Come on Joe. You need to learn to be more compassionate. Learn the American mantra and live life to the fullest. The vultu...er, lawyers have worked long and hard to provide this standard of life for everybody.
"It's your fault I'm an idiot."
In 1989, I was driving my motorcycle too fast on a city street in Los Angeles. A woman 'pulled out in front of me' and I was unable to stop in time, and in the resulting crash I broke my leg. It took me 3 or 4 years (I was only 25 then, and had a habit off blaming others for my own problems) for me to realize that, yeah, she had pulled out in front of me -- and that was why there was a posted speed limit of about 35 mph. I was going much too fast. If I had been going the speed limit, I could have simply stopped. If only I spoke Spanish back then, I'd be a rich man, because then it wouldn't have been my fault. Right? Well, that's what you folks are saying on here; if the government can't make spanish-speaking folks act like they have some sense, then they should pay off the survivors every time they pack a van with their whole darned family and then do something (yes!) stupid. I'm truly saddened by the fact that a reckless driver killed her own family and that has got to be difficult for this man to handle, but saying that it's the road's fault, no. No. No. No.
The same type of accident happened on the elevated express highway in BKK, Thailand...
A speeding vehicle clipped a 12 passenger van, causing a brow-out on the van. The van then impacted the guard rail @ 100+km, ejecting 11+passengers thru the windshield, off the 20+meter elevated road...
The teen driver of the speeding vehicle, had borrowed the vehicle from a friend, was not injured and she had NO drivers permit...
Her rich family, father a Thai General & a close relative that is a popular TV actor. Are settling the civil charges out of court. In Thailand, the families of the dead can collect lost earnings in a wrongful death case...
If these Thai folks had been wearing seatbelts, they wouldn't have been flung through the windshield. "Nuff said?
I'll bet that the 'speeding teen driver' had on a seatbelt. She may not have been a good driver but she still looked out for herself. We all take chances. Funny how we've managed to come to the realization that if you walk across a road you are responsible for your own safety but put someone in a vehicle and suddenly nothing is their own fault.
Damien Thurnberg,
The teen driver did not have a seat belt on, but she did have a airbag...
As in the USA, passengers in a 12+passenger van are not required to have seat belts on...
The van driver & assistant in the front did have their seat belts on, but they were crushed by the guard rail. Their airbags didn't do much. Their seats were located forward of the front wheels and engine...
After the crash another driver, snapped a picture of the teen leaning against her wrecked vehicle. She was on her cell phone, chatting away. This is the picture that was on the front pages, with captions that read, "Teen chats on cell after causing 11+DEATHS."
Admit it you want to point fingers. speed was the problem not the guard rail, are we a society of morons
YES!
No matter how well the road was constructed and how well maintained it was, there will be people that blame the road for their failures.
Heaven forbid that people take responsibility for their own actions! I do believe it was HER fault, not the guardrail's.
So why do we spend all that money on those expensive guardrails? What a waste of taxpayer money!Let everyone assume reponsibility for their own safety.
Bunch of whiny liberals.
/s
An SUV or car operator could have been going at the speed limit, if a truck or bus driver with a medical condition rear end that SUV or car, the current road railing set up is not enough to prevent the rear ended SUV or car from flying of the highway and killing everyone onboard. A lawsuit is needed to get the city to correct a known problem.
Wasn't there another wreck where the vehicle left the road and went off a cliff, a few months back???
The cause was attributed to low guard rails, but the locals blocked the state from building barriers. Because the locals wanted the scenic views, to not be blocked by guard rails and walls...
But this was a rural area and people expected to drive SLOWER and most people knew the roads...
Most countries I have driven in, the driver is responsible to maintain control and drive at a safe speed. No matter what the posted speed limits are. The posted limits are the MAX, not the MIN as most seem to think...
Why do we always shift the blame—the driver is 100% responsible-- an over loaded van is hard to drive even for the best drivers—the driver was a 45 year old woman so what qualifiers her as a good driver—her age, years behind the wheel, she was a woman—even good roads kill people every day-- it is just another story in a long line of stories where a few hold others responsible for their own negligence. And who Leeds the chase in the name of humanity, of course another lawyer. Yes the state made this woman drive this over loaded van, yes the state made her van go out of control, yes the state told her which roads to drive on, and the state told this woman to drive as fast as she could go just to tempt her fait—yes yes and we can even blame the doctor who gave birth to this woman, she must have been born in the same state..
Tigerboy, you make a really good point.
And, his point is? . . . that he can not spell!
A E, can you seriously not get his point? Why don't you try reading the post for the words instead of proofreading it? I'm a stickler for correct punctuation as anyone else, but still, come on! I agree with you that it's harder to take someone serious when they can't spell things right and take the time to punctuate correctly but just try to see the person's point for what it is, you know?
@TigerBoy
You've obviously never driven on the BRP. I bet you never speed up to overtake a slower vehicle in the right lane. Also, if everyone had a seat-belt on, how was the vehicle overloaded? Use a little critical thinking before you post.
TigerBoy and rfaber9,
The Honda Pilot is rated for eight passengers, so she was NOT driving an overloaded vehicle. Her speed was in keeping with the flow of traffic, which is hard not to do in her situation. She was born in the Dominican Republic, NOT New York. The State SHOULD have improved this road a very long time ago, and it's failure to do so has already caused numerous accidents in the same location. Why don't you trolls show a little sympathy for the deceased instead of trying to slander the poor woman? Oh.....It's because you are trolls!
Tiger boy, First do your homework on the vehicle before you claim the vehicle was over loaded.
The vehicle is rated for more than what she was carrying, secondly I suppose you have never seen the road or drove on it?
The road is pure garbage ! As I stated in an earlier post the roads in the Bx and Brooklyn are of some of the worst and I have absolutely nothing to gain except to maybe save my own families life when I drive on those roads.
Really, a curb on a highway ? , a high speed launching pad if you even have to swerve out of someone's way and hit it , you're doomed .
What does being a woman driver have to do with anything ?
If the roads are flat as they should be when going over the road the wheels would not cavitate and basically leave the ground at different times and frequencies , you go into any type of turn when something like that is happen to your contact patch and you will have little or no control .
Overloaded ? not by a long shot !
And Martin, when you call Us "a society of morons " Please speak for yourself.
Nobody is looking to have to point fingers and I challenge you to lose that many people in your family and not feel anger, I've driven the road and I know it's bad it is worse than even they describe it.
The society of morons are the people that are in charge of keeping the roads flat , they're also in charge of making the changes needed for todays vehicles and speeds , yea maybe the speed limit is 55 but does anyone here actually drive the posted speed limit in todays society, road ways need to be contructed with a safety margin, not litteral speed bumps and pot holes that for the most part all but completely disable the drivers ability to control the moving vehicle at any speed .
Article says all the victims were wearing seatbelts. That means vehicle was not over loaded. Get you head out of your a$$.
Singbiker, where did you get me trolling out of my comment? You need to learn how to read. I didn't say anything bad, did I? You need to read the post again. In one of my posts further down, I said the van WASN'T overloaded. Please try actually reading it before you come out with a immature, baseless comment.
Singbiker, read comment #23.2. Where you got this idea I'm a troll is beyond me.
The number of seat belts is not the only indication of a vehicle being overloaded.
Because everyone else does it makes it legal? Oh, the posted limit on that section was 50 mph. Posted limits are there because it has been determined that the road is unsafe at higher speeds.
They are but still people "push the envelope". They rely on that extra cushion. Regardless of the safety margins and features people will kill themselves on roadways. Safety features can only do so much to "protect" users.
Anthony Soprano;
whether you like it or not, this crash was 100% driver error. How is the state, city or any other body responsible for mistakes made by a driver. If everyone knows the road is garbage, why was she driving 20 mph above the posted limit. Peer pressure is no excuse. If other want to drive faster they can use the left lane. If they honk and flash their lights, let them. She was speeding, probably distracted talking it up with the people with her, SHE clipped the divider, SHE lost control and SHE caused these deaths. Not the State or City or anyone else. But, everyone must pay for her mistakes, right? Sorry, ain't buying.
Great...... Spelling police is out in full force today.
The Honda Pilot has a weight capacity of 1322 LB. This includes all persons and freight so likely the vehicle was in fact loaded beyond capacity.
Bleedemdry - your math is a little off. If the weight limit is 1322 and it had 7 people in it (including 3 children) their average weight would have to be 188 lbs. Since the kids were 10, 7, and 3, their combined weight would be less than 200lbs. That leaves 1122 lbs or an average of 280 lbs each for the remaining 4 adults. Not very likely. The bottom line is that a Pilot holds up to 8 passengers so 7 passengers is not overloading it. I am not sure how any of this relates to the crash but I hate for people to talk out of their a$$.
Reasonable22 - We see where you calculated an average of the passengers but wheere are your numbers for the "freight" (cargo) that bleedemdry referred to? You must have missed the original article where the author was describing the items that were scattered after the crash. Many people overlook the fact that a tank of gas has weight (approx. 115 lbs in this case) and needs to be figured into the "cargo/freight" portion of the max capacity of a vehicle. That reduces the average weight allowance of each adult (in your calculations) by ~29 lbs.
Don't you hate when words come to bite you on the "other mouth"?
The women driver couldn't have picked a worse area to go off that road. I've been at that location. What probably hapened was when she hit the curb on the right side it launched the car in the air. Because there was no guilderail to bounce her back at the curb she went over instead of back onto the road. She went over the walkway and the low railing outside the roadway. They went down the embankment which was a good 20 or 30' drop. This is a good distance to fall. And to make all this happen she was driving too fast.
And the problem with the guiderail mentioned in the article is that it is lower then the road grade. It would take a lot of effort and hitting just right for to go over curb and the railing, but I can see how it could happen.
Everyone should look at google earth street view to see what this road looks like. It's where the tree line starts on the southbound side of the BRP, just north of the rail yard north of Morris Park Avenue.
I would like to look at the Google Earth view....please, what are the coordinates?
Is there a curb on the road because it's a sidewalk there? Asking because one of the earlier posters said they've walked that road.
http://maps.google.com/?ll=40.844437,-73.871616&spn=0.000001,0.000868&t=h&z=21&layer=c&cbll=40.844437,-73.871616&panoid=-2UyYgExOU-V9D4uat95Kg&cbp=12,265.45,,0,2.78
This is the approximate location within 50' each way. Unfortunately I'm not seeing a southbound streetview so you will have to look at it from the northbound direction. Both sides of the road are very similar.
Of course the filthy media makes it sound like she was just keeping up with traffic.........she was breaking the law by driving 18 MPH over the speed limit.
If she was driving the posted speed limit, it wouldn't have happened.
Ken, you can't really say it wouldn't have happened but there is certainly less of a chance of it happening if she was obeying the speed limit. We will never know if it could have been avoided.
Even had she been doing the speed limit with the other vehicles honking and yelling "pretty things" at her. She still could have clipped the divider, damaged her tire, and gone over. No one knows that it would NOT have happened had she been doing the speed limit or not. Even at 50. You clip something and damage a tire... it takes most control out of your hands.
the question of the day is who do not drive over the limit in this country ???? people love to point finger ( do what i said but don`t do what i do ok )
Even if she had hit that curb side at 50 mph, the result would have been the same. The BRP is just unsafe. The guardrails are not designed to, or strong enough, to prevent/stop a car or van from going over the side.
Until you've driven it yourself, don't blame the driver. Do as Alan suggested above, go to Google Earth street view and see it for yourself. It's a scary road!
When has exceeding the speed limit by nearly 20 mph minimized an accident?
bad guardrails.....or foolish immigrant female driver?
There BETTER NOT be a lawsuit over this....she caused it.
Maybe the state should sue her family for being an idiot driver, driving way too fast and damaging property.
Ken - I don't see how you can blame the media, they are quoting the NY Police Department Spokesman.
What a horrible tragedy. Maybe they won't let these people die in vain and maybe they will do some roadway improvements. Sounds like it could use it. Also, maybe they should have more cops patrolling the road to slow people down a bit.
So, pretty much grown babysitters to make sure these terrible drivers actually drive the speed limit eh? Who's going to pay that? You are.
Don't worry they'll drop the speed limit to 35mph and put a bunch of flashing lights and arrows and then start ticketing anyone driving over 5 mph than the posted limit. That's the way government works. They can then use that money to form a committee and talk to the unions and see who can do the job the slowest way possible. I know that if I was in charge and got sued I'd close the highway and post that it will reopen pending repairs and any questions can be directed at the suing lawyers office. After all we're doing those repairs to prevent any additional tragedies.
the only real way to decide what has happened here - is how different the accident would have been if she hit the guard rail at 50mph. I agree speed is most probably the issue - but that doesn't help, we all speed - Todays cars are getting faster, AND safer - the state needs to keep up with this.
look at Germany - there motorways / hiways have NO maximum speed limit, and they are doin fine!!
The Germans have a culture of individual responsibility. We Americans have a culture of the nanny state.
Actually Germany does have speed limits when you get closer to towns/cities as well as tunnels. I remember the one tunnel was 80km speed limit which is about 60mph. When you are approaching an area with a limit, signs flash so that there is warning to slow down. It's like in Western states here in the US where there is no speed limit unless it flashes at you. Also, it is much harder to get a driver's license in Germany than here in the US. You can't drive there until you are 18 and after you take expensive classes. There is also really good public transportation so it is not neccessary to drive from one place to another, unlike here. When I was on the autobahn I noted how the roads weren't packed. Not saying they couldn't be, but it's not the same driving conditions as it is here.
But one is not required to test the cars limits of speed or safety. Safety features only can do so much. As is evidenced by this crash, driver skills are a major limiting factor. She tested her skill level and it cost her dearly.
the state can only do so much to negate an individual's inabilities
sometimes we make mistakes driving , sometimes we get by with a mistake , sometimes a tragedy . so sorry
This might be the most intelligent post on here.
Yes...the only sensible post.
I've driven that stretch many times. It is one of many stretches of highway which simply shouldn't exist as highway any longer, given how people typically drive. The right answer is to repave the sucker from end to end, and re-line it as a single lane in each direction, with a full breakdown lane, complete with deep rumble strips cut into the breakdown land to ensure that it is useless for driving. The road is simply too narrow and winding for two lanes in each direction.
I agree with speeding being the main problem but I must ask why are there no pictures of the guard rail so all facts can be seen?
Speeding, hitting a median barrier and evidently ignoring warning signs. Bad medicine while driving.
I don't agree with the analogy that because everyone else is speeding you should too. That's ludicrous. That's like saying when the lemmings are jumping off a cliff, you should join in as well.
A terrible and unnecessary loss of precious life.
I totally agree about the guard rails but I think the condition of the roads are deplorable in that area.
They are deplorable. The Bronx River parkway is a terribly built and maintained road, just like most of the roads in NYC. Combine that with NYC drivers and you get what happened on Sunday.
This article doesnt state that the late Mrs. Gonzalez was driving a RENTAL VAN or her own car....So lets assume that it was a rental since her maintenance worker job would justify a Small Car. Now, the police are saying there appears to be no mechanical automotive break-down ...this statement I believe is a total Cover-up Statement and that in reality she was most likely driving a RentaL van (and either was not used to driving a large vehicle) or the vehicle had safety recall issues like a possible 'Stuck Accelerater / Throttle cable' condition which is typical in NISSANS, Toyota, and LEXUS vehicles as was the case in san diego in 2009/10 when a off-Duty Sheriff Deputy with Family couldnt stop their accelerating VAN on the freeway overpass and it went airborne killing everyone. The Surviving family SUED and WON 1 Million against Bob Baker of Toyota of El Cajon.. who subsequently closed the business. However, given MRS. Gonzalez was from the BRONX..she knew of this freeway section where hIgh speeds are dangerous 'so I am not citing here driving'...I think without question since its a LATINO family involved the fingerpointing is focused on 'bad driving' not on a Possible cut-brake line or stuck-Throttle Cable which would be this issue if this family were of Jewish or Anglo Race. Also, it may also be that this FREEWAY is very old and in total need of retrofitting (design improvement) to handle faster speeding cars.....For Example, over in the burbank hills of California on I-405 there are a lot of Freeway exits with a Turnout radius very small and tight which requires alot of brake effortsto slow down (from 80 mph average speeds) prior to a stop sign...else one might hit the guardrail. However, with Ceramic brakes (only sports and luxury cars have these) and a great handeling car one can manage....Nonetheless, currently on the burbank Tonjanga Overpass..and the surrounding area Caltrans Dept. of transportation & the city finally agreed on Costs to Justify a billion dollar street/bridge widening and street improvements to improve the safety of these 1930/1940 era roads. SO in total defiance of Martin-2342164 a 'status quo-Moron' ..I believe that the Guard rail and the Vehicle condition should be what needs to be examined more thoroughly. I believe the vehicle was tampered with.. eventhough the police is saying are saying its a 'non-factor'.
BS
yeh how about the lady was SPEEDING AND LOST CONTROL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
stupid ass act cost the family their life ... nobodys fault but the speeder .....
Gip....you've made some statements that have zero proof to back them up!! Show us the evidence!! This was driver error only! Not some made up conspiracy theory that you've made up!!
CA got what they deserved. They sold their rail lines to the auto and tire companies (GM & Firestone) who promptly dismantled the lines and sold the right of ways. What LA wouldn't give for that rail system now huh?
Gip, are you a lawyer......? It is sad to coment RIP family gone..... and condolences to those left to suffer,
But even if the car had problems ,having so much load you drive within speed limit ,knowing you take responsibility for all life's in your hands, but like one commentator said she was probably talking and not concentrating on such troubled road .As of driver you'll have all kinds of challenges on a road,it is a task not a party time . while driving I see a lot of soccer mom, fixing children in their sits or opening snacks for children, WHILE DRIVING .....MOMS this is not a kitchen ,you endanger others lives ...Like the one in San Diego, she was chatting with her mother ,not paying attention to the merge lane ahead.... and over loaded truck behind her slammed into her van and killed her two children ....driver of the truck was sent to prison.Multy task mom 's give up cars are not Kitchen ......I'm a mom too.
Great job there, trying to 'relate' an accident to a bunch of things, including hearsay, you think you know.
You could have googled 'Honda Pilot' recalls and found out that such recalls don't exist for that car.
Assumption based on job as to what she would drive? Not a good indicator. You don't know her living arrangements or what they may cost.
That she lives in the Bronx, it's likely she does own a car. The Bronx has a far higher car ownership than all but Staten Island (of the 5 bouroughs of NYC).
I own a car. I live in the Bronx. I have driven the BRP. It is neither an easy nor a 'safe' road to drive. But I don't believe you have to do 70 mph to drive on it/keep up with traffic on it. I never have. (caveat. I don't drive the BRP often. I take the Hudson, Sawmill, Hutchinson and sometimes the Sprain - when the Hutch is backed up. Every day.)
If you are going to provide us with a piece of your mind, please make sure you can spare it. Your theory is pure bs and nothing to support your rant.
gjpmaz: As Mel Brooks said, that was a great example of authentic Western gibberish.
1) Nothing says the vehicle was a rental or unfamiliar to the driver. Especially now that minivans are becoming unpopular, used minivans can be a great deal.
2) The unintended acceleration you referred to was primarily found in Toyota and Lexus vehicles. This was a Honda Pilot. The issue was a cable-less throttle, not a stuck cable.
3) The CHP fella who was killed was driving a Lexus ES350, I believe
4) Most exits I see, even in California, have posted exit speeds - you don't take the exits at 80, you slow down before the exits. I've driven in almost every state and many foreign countries and have never seen a highway system where ceramic brakes were needed.
5) Whether the driver was Latina or not is irrelevant. There are crappy - and good- male and female drivers in every ethnic group. Hispanics, huh? How about some folks named Montoya, Fittipaldi, or Zanardi? Or if you want to keep it female, Milka Duno? Not a great Indy driver, but shared a victory at Sebring. Think that's considered competent.
new york is broke,they will never have the money to fix old out dated roadways,its up to the people to drive safe and obey the laws...cant save everybody,thats why there called accidents
Poor driving or not, I smell major lawsuit. New Yorkers, it's going to cost you. Major retrofits on EVERY outdated guardrail system in the ENTIRE state. Sell you house now and move to North Dakota!
Of course they are going to sue. The driver was going too fast so it's the state's fault now. Maybe the father should get a billion dollars.
Alan, your too right. People can't seem to take responsibility for their own actions. This country has become a nation of "suing for a living". It's a full time job for way to many people. Pretty sad if you ask me.
Yeah, I'm sure that the same divider jumped in front of the driver which caused the horrible accident. It was none of her fault. The same divider thats been there for decades... and millions drive through that weekly with no problems.
speeding driver...no problem...blame the roadway..they will pay good...next sue honda corp...car wasn't idiot proof...nobody takes the blame for there actions any more....sad
I am sorry this man lost his family. I can smell the ambulance chasing lawyers lining up to help this poor man in his time of grief. For a nice fee, of course.
sure blame it on the state .. another case of people not taking responsibility for their own actions .. from what i heard she was speeding .. its a tradgedy but all the moms fault so now sue and have the people of the state pay for your stupid actions .. ...
Maybe if she would have spoken English she could have read the speed limit signs. What an idiot. And the father doesn't speak English either. Welcome to the new America. We need to make English the official language and quit providing government forms in both English and Spanish. But that is an aside; the reason for this crash is operator error and recklessness.
Um, she did speak English and so does her husband. Her brother-in-law, however, doesn't. Does it feel good to call a dead woman an idiot? Yes, it appears she made a dreadful mistake while it sounds like you've never made any. But there are other things besides her recklessness that contributed to this horrible tragedy. You, meanwhile, sound like a real gem. Have a little compassion. It wouldn't kill you.
Now that "the expert" has pronounced the guide rails to be inadequate... the inference being the guide rail was poorly designed or of faulty construction or maybe it was the design of the interchange... let the civil suits begin.
Why in your mind can't the expert (don't know why you felt the need to use quotes) be correct? It is possible? Or are you an "expert" on guardrails, Bill?
Gee, New York Police spokesman says she was speeding but "probably just keeping up with traffic." Why make excuses for #1 her speeding, and then, as many are saying, #2 the road is the problem. I've used the just keeping up with traffic excuse, but the officer still gave me a ticket.
Her speed, a woman driver, too many passengers in the van, a Latino family, etc. etc. REALLY?? How many hurtful excuses can you all come up with? What we DO know is that a close-knit family all lost thier lives and there is a husband & father in obvious pain. I know where this area is. She was not the only one exceeding the speed limit. That's just the way the traffic pattern is in this location. Don't we all know of roadways where there is heavy traffic and high rates of speed? Perhaps lowering the speed limit even more & enforcing it and updating the roadway and guardrails ARE in order here. But the fact still remains that this is a horrible tragedy and lives were cut short way too soon. May they rest in peace. My prayers go out to the families & friends of all involved. Can we all be a little more sympathetic? A tragedy can happen to ANY of us.
I agree, only so much you can do when people themselves do not drive correctly or safely. Our roads have become racetracks for many. Even in busy times you find some that seem to think its OK to drive faster. I totally agree that today we seem to put little emphasis on educating drivers of driving the proper speed. Blaming roads, guard rails and weather when it was really the driver who simply did not drive safely is what is wrong here.
Carol, there was not to many passengers. They were all wearing seatbelts. Other than that, I completely agree with you.
You're right, Carol. It sickens me to see people here saying such horrible things about this woman and family.
rfaber9 - Carol wasn't saying the driver had too many people in her van... She was commenting about how other people are saying that.
You cannot keep blaming other things for people driving off bridges or cliffs or whatever. As a driver I have seen lot's of road safety improvements and yet people find a way to still kill themselves or others on our highways.
Blueridge Parkway, Tail of the Dragon, Hwy 1 in California, I could name a hundred more roads that require attention, speed control, and caution by the driver. Poorly conditioned patch-work roadway?? Have you ever driven on the off/on ramps near Detroit? Folks, speed and driver error are the cause of this accident, not the State or the state of the roadway. The sovereign [state] exercises its discretionary function power in determining what infrastructure will be repaired and when. The road was drivable at the posted speed, end of message. Cause of the accident was speed and driver error.
BigMike, your right. There are so many drivers on that road that don't have accidents so it's obvious that it was the drivers fault.
Indeed, obviously there is no reason to repair a road unless it is killing EVERYBODY who attempts to drive on it.
Cause of the accident was a combination of driver error and a poor roadway. The two definitely don't mix.