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Subscribe to RSSOccupy Wall Street protesters are planning coast-to-coast demonstrations Tuesday in honor of "May Day" or International Workers' Day. The protesters are calling for a general strike and are encouraging workers to stay home. The Morning Joe panel discusses.
As Occupy protesters hit the streets for a nationwide general strike on Tuesday, some in the movement fear the emergence of two new activist outfits made up of "old left" advocacy groups and unions is an attempt to turn them into a "pet" for the Democratic Party and President Obama’s reelection effort.
The new groups, 99% Power and 99% Spring, include backers such as MoveOn.org, Rebuild The Dream, AFL-CIO, United Auto Workers, CODEPINK: Women for Peace, and The Ruckus Society. The groups bring money with them – something in short supply for Occupy – but their efforts are being eyed warily by those who helped launch the Occupy movement.
Adbusters, the Canadian magazine that made the initial call for people to Occupy Wall Street on Sept. 17 of last year, has been running a blog series on their website, "Battle for the Soul of Occupy," in the last few weeks. In it, the publication has decried attempts to "neutralize our insurgency with an insidious campaign of donor money and co-optation."
"This counter-strategy worked to kill off the Tea Party’s outrage and turn it into a puppet of the Republican Party. Will the same happen with Occupy Wall Street? Will our insurgency turn into the Democrats’ Tea Party pet?" Adbusters wrote in an April 12 post. "Will you allow Occupy to become a project of the old left, the same cabal of old world thinkers who have blunted the possibility of revolution for decades? Will you allow MoveOn, The Nation and Ben & Jerry to put the brakes on our Spring Offensive and turn our struggle into a ‘99% Spring’ reelection campaign for President Obama?"
Skepticism of electoral politics runs deep in the Occupy movement and it could affect the ability of Democrats to mobilize activists during the 2012 campaign, despite attempts to appropriate the "99 percent" rhetoric. But Todd Gitlin, a former leader of the 1960s group, Students for a Democratic Society, who has just published a book on Occupy, believes the concerns of some in the movement are "outlandish."
Protesters hit the streets for May Day rallies
"It was inevitable that there would arise political actors that want those same reforms, although they don’t necessarily share the real-time spirit of the movement. These are the membership organizations, like the unions and MoveOn … who did turn out for the big marches in October and November, and who are numerically very large but were always from the beginning being met with suspicion on the part of the Occupy movement," said Gitlin, a professor of sociology and journalism at Columbia University.
"This represents actually a misunderstanding on the part of some of the Occupy people who feel weak, so they’re afraid of co-optation because they feel that the co-opters have the power to puncture their balloon," he added.
Still, the new groups don’t sit well with Charles M. Young, a writer at thiscantbehappening.net and a 1960s-era activist. He attended one of the mid-April training sessions held by The 99% Spring on Manhattan’s Upper West Side, which he said was led by representatives of the Democratic Party and Wall Street lawyers, and where Obama buttons were offered for sale.
Up host Chris Hayes leads the conversation on civil disobedience in light of the Occupy Wall Street movement, and the groups that are emerging to teach protesters non-violent demonstration tactics.
Young, 61, feared that Occupy could be "pulled to the right" by partnering up with them and felt the effort was part of a bid to keep the "Kucinich Democrats" from leaving.
"It looks very much like what they call an AstroTurf movement, you know, something from the top down," he said, noting he left the meeting "disillusioned." "I don’t remember anybody saying that there was a need for the 99% Spring before it came out."
"It does seem to be mostly the Democratic Party trying to keep the left in line for Obama and keeping things obedient, and that’s just not enough given the issues involved," he added.
In an email statement, Justin Ruben, MoveOn's executive director, said his group has electoral goals, but that his organization has "zero interest in trying to alter [Occupy] in any way."
"Growing economic inequality and the increasing influence of 1 percent cash in our political system are huge problems, and problems that MoveOn members care deeply about. Our response includes working to engage more activists in the fight for fairness for the 99 percent and to introduce activists to powerful tactics like non-violent direct action. That's what the 99% Spring is about," he said.
"Regarding elections, yes, there's no question that MoveOn sees elections as profoundly important, and we will be engaged in elections this year -- just as we've engaged in elections since our inception in 1998. But of course we work with lots of allies that don't engage in elections, and we respect that choice," he added.
Dorian Warren, an assistant professor of political science at Columbia University, said schisms on the left today are similar to those during the civil rights movements. There were "intense fights between the old guard" groups like the NAACP and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and the youth-led Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, he said. In hindsight, the youth-led group played an important role, serving as "the left flank of the movement," he said. "That’s sort of the role Occupy is playing."
But Occupy should be skeptical and challenge the progressive establishment, he said. "Until September, the strategies of these groups, whether it was ‘inside the Beltway’ game or just traditional interest group politics, that was not working, and so the more radical tactics that Occupy innovated is what shifted the political terrain and they should stay focused on doing that."
The 99% Spring and 99% Power have given a nod to Occupy for leading the way, though they also said they had been drafting plans to engage in more public protest and focus on corporate accountability before Occupy existed. They had targeted the fall for their campaign, but then Occupy took off, which in turn helped them convince others of the viability of their own strategy, said George Goehl, executive director of National People’s Action.
Occupy reinvented: '99 percent' protesters target General Electric
"It opened up some space for some of the things that we’ve been working on for a long time, and it was really just kind of liberating … in terms of what was possible and also in terms of kind of confirming what we thought," he said.
Goehl said members of Occupy have joined his group’s trainings – or led them – and some consider themselves as part of 99% Power. He said when he was in Des Moines last week at a protest, three of the 12 people arrested were from Occupy.
"I think what we’re seeing is … a growing number of threads that do speak to the need to be fearless truth tellers around what’s truly going on in this country to both engage in nonviolent direct action and to challenge the dominance of the corporate sector both, you know, in our economy and in our politics," he said. "And I think that, you know, Occupy is a thread of that, 99% Spring is a thread of that, 99% Power … it’s all part of the same thing."
He said that the notion that any electoral objectives were part of their strategy was "completely false."
"The organizations that actually started this idea don’t really run big electoral programs. It’s not been that kind of the focus in terms of strategies and tactics," he added.
In the end, Warren, the politics professor, said he thought there could be "too much focus on who’s co-opting Occupy versus Occupy just doing its work."
Success during big events like Tuesday’s May Day actions will actually depend on how many people that the unions, MoveOn and other groups turn out, Warren said. "In that sense, Occupy’s fate is linked to these other groups and these others groups’ fates are linked to Occupy."
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Don't worry Occupy, nobody wants a dysfunctional "pet".
...some in the movement fear the emergence of two new activist outfits made up of "old left" advocacy groups and unions is an attempt to turn them into a "pet" for the Democratic Party and President Obama’s reelection effort.
LOL. These people have been tools (pun intended) for the Democratic Party and President Obama since their conception.
SI
How could anyone insult pets like this? My pets are so much more well behaved.
MSNBC.COM, do you think we are really that stupid to believe that the dems have nothing to do with OWS?
Its quite interesting watching this whole thing. At first, Dem leaders greeted the Occupiers with open arms, then finding out they cant be controlled the DOJ ordered the Feds to assist the local law enforcement in crushing the whole movement.
Now since its fading away, the Dem leadership are trying to replace it with a movement thats controlled directly by the party.. It will be most interesting to see how this turns out.
-Sam
Great comment.
The corporate democrats do view Occupy as a threat to their control of the party.
If President Obama is a communist/Marxist/socialist, then why is Occupy afraid they will be pulled to the right by the Dems? I need to turn on Fox News for some answers.
Sam and UDunnoBro- Interestingly enough there is a historical precident for Occupy and their demise.
In Germany Hitler used a poor economy to get the workers united against foreigners, the Jews, etc. and created the Brown Shirt movement. They were active in protests and eventually lead attacks (that Hitler really wanted against his "enemies"). Well, Hitler couldn't really politically "approve" of them (doing the job he wanted them to do) so eventually he unleashed the German police and millitary against them, rounded them up, and killed a large number of them. They served their purpose- furthering Hitler's interests and movement. Once their purpose was fullfilled, they were neutralized.
Similarly, notice these days how the Muslim Brotherhood was bringing together disgruntled groups (women's rights, muslims, christians, rights groups, workers, etc.) in Egypt and other nations, creating a unified movement against their governments, businesses, foreigners, etc. Once they fulfilled their purpose (turning the government), these groups were neutralized (the women were thrown out of the process, foreigners were killed/forced to move, the christians were forced out, etc.) It's pretty similar.
Don't think it can't happen here. Like Sam said, the democrats, the media, and the President are riling up disgruntled youth and workers and using them as a power tool. Once they get their power structure implemented, they will round them up and deal with them. Dirty settlements in downtown NYC- great. Windows breaking and buildings burning, it's time to shut them down. Why is it that they are promoting Occupy while building up the means to shut down the Internet, the way to intern US citizens easily, martial law rules, etc.??
BECOMING Dems pet???? ha-ha-ha-ha-ha
The Occupy movement is the pet the Dems adopted at the shelter when it was all cute and fuzzy, but then who will be abandoned at a highway rest stop once reality sets it.
We should all know by now the Repbulicans are just Democrat light. They are both there to pander for the right to represent the corporations and banks that pay them the most money.
sadmoronsvote2, because Obama has also been pulled to the right by corporate Dems.
JoeNY
I stopped reading your argument after you mentioned Hitler. You fail.
Occupy Wall Street!
Actually, Satanick, YOU FAIL if you stop reading something just because it makes you uncomfortable. One could say that someone like you is burying your head in the sand to avoid facing unpleasantness.
There are many reasons why it is important to study history and understand how and why certain events came to pass. One of those reasons, and perhaps the most important one, is to learn from the mistakes of the past - or we are doomed to repeat them.
I'm thinking you didn't do so well in your history classes.
Satanick - The country stopped listening to you a long time ago. You and yours failed.
Satanick, if you ignore historic precedence solely because it contains a reference to Hitler -- as a historical figure, not an insult -- then you'll never learn the important lessons of that dark period.
This is the sad truth about the two party system that has corrupted American politics and taken away the freedoms of its citizens. The Republicans successfully absorbed the Tea Party and now the Dems are doing it to the Occupy movement. The Dems and Repubs have split the country between themselves, made it just about impossible to get onto the ballot nationally to compete with them, and have the commentators from Chris Mathews to Rush Limbaugh demonizing the other party...good old fashioned Bill Clinton triangulation combined with modern marketing techniques...find out what people want to hear and frame the message to get elected...now throw in the big money...kaboom!!...the American democracy has been nuked. RIP?...hell no...wake up and take your country back!
This is a fine line to walk. I think that there is justifiable anger at what's occurred in terms of stagnate wages, decreasing upward mobility, wealth accumulation, Wall St deregulation, derivative/mortgage shadiness, a crappy tax code and the big banks. People have a right to be pissed, but outside of changing the conversation for small segments of time, nothing much will get changed without reaching out a hand to the political system.
I think for any movement to be effective you have to work both within, and outside of, the system.
And if they really want to change things, get the money out of politics. That's the source of this problem. Politicians who are bought by corporations, non-profits and even wealthy individuals. Campaign donations, lobbying, and cushy jobs waiting for them in the private sector once they leave office, are motivation for our elected officials to throw us under the bus, in favor of whatever big money interest offers them the best deal. We should be most pissed about that.
Sarah - people do have a right to be angry about many of the issues you raised - but like it or not, the predominant message being broadcast by the Occupy "activists" is one of entitlement. They are "entitled" to a "free" college education, they are "entitled" to "free" housing, they are "entitled" to "free", they are "entitled" to whatever they ask for, as long as someone else pays for it. It's not everybody else's fault that Occupy protesters have no credibility whatsoever, it's THEIRS.
Not only that, but if you expect anyone to believe that the Occupy protesters aren't a total tool of the Democratic party, than I have beach front property in Arizona to sell to you. And if you really believe that Democrats aren't just as much of a tool of the as most of the Republicans are - than I have an adjacent lot I'll sell to you, BOGO free.
Gotta love Republicans demonizing the Occupy movement as a dysfunctional pet when they have their own dysfunctional "Tea Party" pet that can't get anything done in Congress.
What gives you that impression? Please quote me sources and cites that show the OWS has come to the consensus, that what they want is "free everything" or that they feel entitled to "free everything".
I think, more likely, they are aware of the fraud, greed and inequity that has created those problems, and how that fraud, greed and inequity has infringed on the one thing they ARE entitled to, equal opportunity.
Eric - if the Tea Party can't get a lot done yet, it's because there are still too many RINOs in Congress. But comparing Tea Party members to Occupy "activists" is ludicrous. Starting with the fact that Tea Party members believe in helping themselves, and Occupy protesters believe in helping themselves...to the stuff other people earned.
That is nothing new. Watch the movie "Mr. smith goes to Washington" 1936. Or how about "All the Kings men" from around the same time. big money interests creating news, spinning the facts to meet their agenda.
The unwashed motley collection of Marxists, socialists, anarchists and other morons have once again emerged from their parents basements to demand free stuff.
Well, a while back they did petition for loan forgiveness for college students. That would be free education (beyond the already free public education taxpayers provide).
And then there was that messy attempt to squat a homeless family in a foreclosed house, despite the fact that the homeless family never contributed anything to society. Oh and the irony of it was that the homeless family wasn't even the family that lost that home - they came out of one of the shelters that they had lived in their entire lives. So the actual family that lost their home had to stand by and watch a bunch of idiots steal their former house for other people that didn't deserve it in the least...
That sounds fair...
How can Occupy not be owned by Democrats? They are a group of lazy, brats whining for handouts... and Democrats are a group of corrupt, power hungry, crooks looking for any way possible to buy the votes of the dimmest, most selfish amongst us. They are made for each other.
P.S.
May Day Eve Quickly Turns Ugly In San Francisco
"Various witness accounts say a group of between 50 and 100 people moved down
Valencia St. smashing windows, throwing paint balls, and even attacking an unsuspecting police station."
http://news.yahoo.com/may-day-eve-quickly-turns-ugly-san-francisco-091023433.html
Democrats and Occupy - two messes that America will clean up in November.
GrilledCheese,
Now your partisanship is showing. Neither movement is 100% lily white or 100% plain, old wrong. What I don't like about the TP is the massive contradiction between what they claim to be about, and what they have actively legislated for, as well as their complete inability to compromise.
This isn't just YOUR nation or the TP's nation, it's OURS, and although you may not want to hear it, your TP doesn't speak for all of us, nor is it right about everything. You need to learn to meet the rest of the country half way, or you will continue to look more and more crazy.
Sarah, please, how about YOU take 5 minutes to do a little research. You will find all the sources and citations you need. It's not my job to educate you. It's yours.
And, just for the record, we have a mainstream media that is blatantly controlled by the left - and STILL the overwhelming message most of us are getting from OWS "activists" is "gimme, gimme, gimme."
How bad is the Democrat part when the occupy movement doesn't want to be associated with them. Ouch, thats got to leave a mark.
PH,
And what about the accountability on the part of those offering the loans? What about the transparency of the University's to let them know why their tuition is continuisly being raise and where that money is going? What about the shady tax code and piss poor trade policies that have lead to the collapse of the job market?
Those kids went into five, sometimes six, figures of debt, believing that if they went to college and invested in their future, the American Dream would be waiting on the other side, but where is that dream? It's getting eaten alive by greedy, big money interests, and politicians. THEY have breached the social contract, NOT those kids.
Really???? You're bit**ing about an empty, forclosed home, being utilized to shelter a poor family?
Sarah - my"partisanship"? Are you insane? I never claimed to be "nonpartisan." I have opinions, strong ones, and I am entitled to them. And listen, little girl, you don't get to call people "crazy" for expressing them. What that DOES do is paint YOU has someone who is trying to intimidate and bully others into being afraid to express their opinions. How very liberal/hypocritical of you.
And no, I will NOT "meet you in the middle." The left-wing maniacs in this country have been doing a bang up job the last few years of redefining what the "middle" is. The new "middle" is what USED to be called leftist extremism - and many of us aren't falling for your kind of BS anymore. Got it?
GrilledCHeese,
Why should I prove YOUR point for you??? You're making the accusation, the burden of proof is on you.
Just for the record, what you call a "liberal media bias" the rest of the world calls FACTS. You know, just because something doesn't support your preconceived notions, doesn't mean it isn't true, it mostly likely means YOU'RE WRONG.
"Little girl", come on, now your insecurity is showing. At least come up with something unique if you're going to try to insult me.
And yes, it's crazy to discount over half of the nation's ideas in the stubborn belief that you and your's are the only ones who have anything right.
And Sarah - here's a little newsflash for you - NO ONE FORCED ANYONE TO TAKE THOSE LOANS. That was a PERSONAL decision that they all made - and if they took out too much loan money, they have NO ONE to blame but themselves. It's called personal responsibility, a concept you apparently have trouble understanding.
What "movement"?
If you take out a loan, then that's on you to repay it. I don't agree with the way that the banks bundled their subprime risks and I don't agree with sleazy loan salesmen but, at the end of they day, if you signed on the dotted line it's your responsibility. Why is it fair that some students get loan forgiveness while others who have already worked hard to pay off their loans don't?
Funny, I went to school and chose a good major and found a job. I just hired a college grad, too. The last article on loan forgiveness that MSNBC/NYTimes ran used two examples: someone getting a master's degree in liberal arts and someone who quit his teaching job to learn how to build puppets. Please explain to me why I have to support their student loans when they clearly made terrible decisions about their education?
And, yes, I am going to take issue with a homeless family squatting in foreclosed home. Many people did. It's stealing. Please explain to me and the family that lost the home why you think it's fair that a lifelong homeless man and women (who decided to have three kids WHILE THEY WERE HOMELESS) gets to live in their home while they have to find a different alternative?
"Just for the record, what you call a "liberal media bias" the rest of the world calls FACTS."
Oh Sarah, your nonpartisanship is showing.
You crack me up.
And you get to call people "crazy" and than get offended when someone calls you "little girl?"
What a flaming hypocrite you are.
GrilledCheese,
I wasn't offended at all, I'm just bored with being called that. I'm looking for someone who can at least be original in their insults. You know, impress me.
I've also noticed you've not backed up one single thing you've claimed. How come? By the way, what decade are you living in? A college education isn't really a choice anymore, it's more a necessity.
PH,
This is where the change needs to happen. If we can institute a fiduciary duty between borrowers and lenders, then those sleazy, loan salesmen, wouldn't be allowed to prey on 18 year olds anymore. I look at the student loan fiasco in terms of contractual law. The consideration on the part of society and the lenders was, in return for taking on this debt and these interest rates, you'll have the opportunity to pay it back. With the job market raped by, as I mentioned above, big money interests and greedy politicans, that opportunity isn't there and society is breaching their end of the contract.
Agreed, those were piss poor choices, and obviously you shouldn't be held accountable for piss poor decisions. But can your really claim that the majority of kids coming out of college are like those two cases?
Because I'm not in their shoes, I don't know what they've been through in their life, and they're HUMAN BEINGS. But for some luck, who knows, that could have been anyone's family. It's not my place to judge, it's my place to help out where I can.
If the Tea Party became the pet of the GOP, it was like a pet tiger cub that grew up and turned on its owner. The Tea Party has done a lot of damage to the Republican Party, and turned what should have been a quick primary into a bloodbath that has left the GOP with a damaged candidate.
I thought one of the beliefs of the occupiers is not to have a 'leader'. How many occupiers will even vote? Are we worried they will vote one over the other? Only having two options when voting means whichever party is not elected this year will probably be in 4 years. After we are angry that no one is listening, then it will keep going back and forth and back and forth forever with no improvements because they are always too busy fighting eachother to do anything progressive.
Protesting and not getting involved in the democratic process makes your occupation useless and fruitless. Take the plunge, start organizing and use your following to register voters, supply rides to the polls and educate the voters. You may even start a 3rd party that can be viable. Don't let your ideas or your policies go to waste as just useless rhetoric.
But, regardless, they signed it. Whether the situation was right or wrong, students have been taking out college loans - and paying them off I might add - for many, many years. Reform lending moving forward? Yes. Forgive loans already spent? No.
Careerbuilder just released a report last week that the hiring of college grads is up nearly 10 percentage points higher than two years ago and somewhere around 5% higher than last year. So, college kids are being hired. If these are the two examples that MSNBC and NYTimes could find in the Occupy camp, then I'm going to say they had difficulty finding college kids without work that were actually qualified to do something at the Occupy movement. And, further to my point, I went to college. A lot of my peers majored in bullsh&t. I also hire and I see resumes all the time. I see more worthless majors than I do meaningful ones.
Stealing a foreclosed home is not the way to help. And, it's a very slippery slope. Would it be alright if someone who was hungry broke in to your home and emptied your fridge? No, it wouldn't. This is no different.
We can help my volunteering, supporting food banks and donating money. Not by allowing people to take what they want, when they want it.
And, as an aside, anyone who has three kids while they are living in a homeless shelter does not deserve my sympathy or my money. That is the most selfish act in the world. There is no "life story" behind it. They wanted to have sex, they had sex and they got pregnant, despite knowing full well they couldn't support the children. how selfish.
Maybe Tuition is being raised due to inflation and the price of everything is going up. Get President Obama to get our finances under control, then the cards will fall in place. Paying for lazy people to go to college, then do nothing with their degrees isn't going to help a thing.
In New Haven, Connecticut the local OWS tents were just removed after 6 months...costs to the city's taxpayers are expected to reach about $150,000 plus the legal fees incurred by multiple appeals and court challenges by OWS lawyers seeking the heavy publicity. Right now the city is looking at about $25,000 in repairs to the public green that had recently been a swamp of blue tarp huts holding a few OWS whackos and a bunch of homeless folks. A few weeks before the mess was shut down, a young woman occupier was raped inside one of the huts. Since the city had allowed the occupiers to stay there so long and provided porta-potties and trash removal at taxpayer expense, some believe the victim will be suing the city for failing to properly protect her on the site.
Some of the other OWS demands in New Haven were "expanded library hours", a complete end to home foreclosures even if homeowners were completely refusing to make mortgage payments, and a prohibition for the city to privatize any service that could be done by municipal union employees...always needs to be some "union thang" to toss in with the other nutty demands.
I guess the 'sloppupiers' had no problem racking up bills for the city's taxpayers...you know, those other members of the saintly "99%" who are forced to pay for the slop the occupiers demanded was their right to create.
LAST YEAR, Glenn Beck pleaded with Pres Obama and the Democrats to not associate with these far-left outfits because they won't go away nicely. Folks ignored it and poked fun, but now it's not so funny.
If not carefully managed, these anarchy-minded types will be emboldened to ruin our country because they feel justified. As a result, Big Brother will crack down on everyone.
These poor revolutionary idiots think they are in 18th century France when they are in Post-9/11 America.
They will not go quietly but will NOT they be heralded as heroes by the masses. When Americans find basics like food, water and electricity interrupted by OWS and eco-terrorists bent on destruction, even Holder will be looking for his gun.
God help us if this irrational, self-righteous movement isn't controlled! We should all hope the Dems success and teach this dog to sit!
JJ,
But we really don't know, because there's no transparency. They can raise tuition whenever they want, and by however much they want, without informing the people paying of where the money is even going.
PH,
Actually it is, because the home was empty and no one was living in it. Furthermore, the foreclosure was probably a bunch of BS anyway.
So what do we do about the trillion or so dollars worth of student debt? We can bail out Wall St, when they were the ones being shady, but then we complain about forgiving the debt of 18-24 year olds who were, whether smart about it or not, trying to do the responsible thing and go to college? Do you really think that letting this problem balloon, which it will when they inevitably can't pay it back, won't effect me and you?
If you ask me, we need a global restructuring of debt. Period.
Sarah
Get there asses. Dumb Knuckle Dragging Neanderthal Fascist Neo Con Tea-publicans
Is occupy still around? Really? So tell me again, what is it they want?
So, in your mind, ok to steal a bank's property? What about a millionaire's vacation home? I mean, it's empty and they are rich so it should be ok, right? What you and the Occupiers fail to realize is that this goes beyond one single home, or one single foreclosure situation. It sets a precedent that is a slippery slope. Whether the bank owns the home, or a family owns the home, it's still stealing. Period.
The situation with the banks was going to cause a global collapse. I didn't like bailing the banks out anymore then the next person, but I believe it prevented a monumental crisis. And, most of the banks have paid back the TARP money with interest. College loans are no where near on the same level of impact and forgiving those loans means no paying back at all. There is no such thing as free money, Sarah.
If you forgive one loan, you have to forgive the next. And the next. And the next. That's a bad precedent.
Several groups in Detroit including Mr. Shabazz (NBP) want Mr. Obama to bail out Detroit. Should we start bailing out cities, and where do we stop. L.A. Chicago New York! I am predicting an all out riot when the new consent council negates the public unions contracts and cuts across the board. City of Detroit has about 5,000 Union (SEIU) employees and about 11,000 retirees. And on the student loans I told my son 6 years ago (he is blind) that just going to college for a "liberal arts" degree was not a smart use of his loan money. He decided to go to Technical school and get certified in MicroSoft products. He is happy and paying his loans easily.
Sarah, college is NOT a necessity. There are lots of career paths that involve technical training which is far cheaper than the 4 year tuition at most colleges. And there are also ways to reduce the cost of a college education, including attending 2 years of community college, attending on-line schools etc.
But the bottom line is, the only person responsible for paying back money that is borrowed is the person who borrowed it. And if you can't afford college, than you don't go, period. Food is a necessity, clothes are a necessity, water is a necessity, shelter is a necessity. College is a DESIRE. You need to learn the difference between "needs" and "wants."
Not only that, but a large part of the reason why college costs have become so out of control is precisely because the government made so much loan money available. Most universities would never have been able to increase their fees so much if there hadn't been all that loan money available in the first place because almost NO one would have been able to afford it. So the government had a very large hand in creating this problem - and now OWS activists expect taxpayers to foot their bills.
I don't think so.
As for people squatting in the homes other people own, it's called breaking and entering and it's a crime. And that house DOES belong to someone. They had absolutely no right to be there, period. And as PH pointed out, that particular family CHOSE to have 3 children when they were already living in a shelter. It doesn't get any more irresponsible than that, I have no pity for those people and I object quite strongly to any of my tax money going to support such people.
Finally, I don't answer to you. I don't know who you think you are, ordering people around, but you really need to get over yourself. As I said, you are a flaming hypocrite, and a very ill-informed one, at that.
I am in the student loan business and here are a couple of facts, the Government has made it super easy to borrower money they don't even check your credit score and they give you the loan with a low interest rate. (Easy money equals high prices, check out the house bubble)
Also most colleges are public (paid for by tax payers) and the price of college has out paced inflation for over 20 years? why you ask, see my first point.
As for Occupy and the Tea-Party if somebody from your team (Dem or Repub) doesn't like the group be very afraid of that person because there only goal is to keep their job. (McCain is a Repub example)
At the least the ones that embrace those parties have some sort of value system, it might not be the one you like, but at least have some respect for them actually having values.
For example Nancy P wants the Government to control every aspect of your life and business and what you do or do not do on a daily basis, I don't agree with her but I respect that she never changes her beliefs.
For example Ron P wants the Government to only do what the constitution has given them the power do. Know you might not like it but at least respect every vote he has given has followed those principals.
Doesn't exactly take a rocket scientist to realize that the Occupy Wall Street crowd shares an identical agenda with Democrats, especially the Liberal Democrats (or is that Progressive Democrats). It's about a good old fashion attack on wealth, i.e. Class Warfare. It's all about that "CHANGE" and "HOPE".
OWS and Liberals live for and love to attack anyone the perceive as being a rich businessmen (who hires people & pay taxes), rich companies (who hire more people and pay even more taxes), and especially the rich industrialist (who make the most money and pay the most taxes), and let us not forget those educated rich banker types (who with open-arms received Obama's Bail-Out "STIMULUS". I'm still not stimulated, but any day now, any day now, it's coming.
Yep, those greedy basturds have too much money and didn't earn it the old fashion way through hard work and sacrafice.... , no sir'eeee, they didn't earn their wealth like Obama, the Hollywood Elite, Sports Athletes or those hard working politicians like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Thomas Reins, Barney Frank, Newt Gingrich, John Kerry, or John Edwards. Yes sirreeee, those politician's are the hardest working bunch of people of all time. Tax the rich, tax the rich, and tax'em again, until all we've got left in America is rich politicians and a broken people without the ability to fight back..... ala Greece, ala Mexico, ala every African Banana Republic.
JH, no they assume you are not as stupid to believe that OWS is a Dem project. Why the Dem's need two new groups of OWS was run by them? Use some deductive logic. There are two logical outcomes:
1. OWS was never a Democratic movement
2. It is all a huge conspiracy to make us think that way
Obviously #2 is the least likely unless you think that the Government wants to promote anarchy like Oakland. OWS was never a Dem project just like the Tea Party was originally not a Republican project. the Tea Party was highjacked at some point and turned into the farce it is now. The TP and OWS have very similar ideas about what the problem in this country is, they just went about voicing it differently. That was the old TP though, the new one is just a Republican whore spitting out R rhetoric.
Joe, you know what is funny about your statement? It resembles what the jackasses that are writing all of these security bills are doing to American Muslims. 24/7 surveillance, undue suspicion, and stoking up the Right and idiots in the Indy and Dem parties that are weak enough to give in to unfounded fears.
PH,
Is it really the bank's though? Can the bank even prove they own that mortgage, or did it get cut up, swapped around, bet on, and bailed out?
You're making false equivalencies. You seem smart enough to recognize that, so I can only assume you're being willfully obtuse.
We already have a tillion dollars worth of it, but really, that's not a problem? But, what you're saying is, if you can buy deregulation from the politicians, allow yourselves to be leveraged at 40:1, defraud people because you refuse to institute a fiduciary duty, and create the biggest clusterf**k in 70 some years, all with the knowledge that what you are doing is going to blow up in your face, meh, okay, we'll bail you out. Oh yes, and go ahead and use that bail out money to provide yourselves with bonuses, and then don't change a damn thing about how you do business. Go to college, major in philosophy, and you're a stupid, lazy, free loader, who deserves to be screwed for the rest of their life?
Sarah, always the excuse maker. University costs which have nearly doubled in 10 years, and are going higher because "academics" do whatever they please, pushing costs as high as they can as our President continually says we don't spend enough on education, the biggest lie ever told. You have tenured Professors who don't even teach any classes whatsoever, but write for a living, to hell with the students. Same as with the public school teachers unions which have ruined the public schools even as we spend more per student than any western nation except Austria. "education spending" is not the problem, it's unregulated greed by Universities and the public school teachers unions. Don't buy the lies that "education spending" is the problem, it clearly is not.
OWS has NEVER been embraced nor sought to be embraced by EITHER party. OWS has NEVER asked for "free" things but has rather tried to bring the issues of MASSIVE income inequality, stagnant wages, exorbitant CEO pay (compared to rank and file pay), the government's ineptitude with dealing with the financial crisis that the BANKS caused and the fact that the "we the people" have been left out to dry while the banks have gotten larger and were bailed out. These issues are, in actuality, the same issues that the TP rails upon... just from a different perspective (see allegory of the cave).
The TRUE issues with our government share their roots in the fact that our elected officials (state and federal and both D and R) are OWNED by special interests (oil & gas, banking, agri-business, defense contractors, etc.), the wealthy and corporations. How? Because without their money no candidate can run a campaign for ANY office therefore they are beholden to their campaign contributors. Have you ever wondered why a candidate can espouse one opinion during and election cycle and once elected pivot to the opposite opinion? All they need is your vote in order to get into office... once their your concerns/cares/wishes play second fiddler to those who filled their campaign coffers. We Americans are easily goaded into fighting over Democrap vs Repugnican and thus we accept these "pivots" because "our guy won". We a fiddling while the US burns from the middle class downwards.
Oh boy, here we go again. Let all the slackards ,hoods, thugs, and leeches out.
But yet you just did, didn't you?
A lot of people over their heads in student debt, did go the community college route. On-line schools, really? A lot aren't even acredited. Training school is fine, but if everyone went, then the market would be saturated with only those who are qualified to do those specific jobs.
College is necessary, for the vast majority of people and for society as a whole.
Then please, don't go to a doctor, drive a car, ride in an elevator, put your children in school yada, yada, yada. You, yourself, benefit from those "unnecessary" college educations every day. Do you know what a fiduciary duty is???
Please, explain why having a fiduciary duty between borrowers and lenders wouldn't be a good idea? Just because something "is the way it is", doesn't mean "it is the way it should be".
JCB,
Yeah, did you miss the part where I was bi**ing about the lack of transparency on the part of the universities???
This ..."Occupy"... movement, amounts to nothing more than a ... "bowel"... movement...!
It's hard to take any group seriously that considers money the enemy. If another group wants to support you with cash, but you're more afraid of being somehow co-opted by the donation, you have no chance to succeed at all unless you already have your own money in hand...which they don't, pretty much by design. In other words, their "business plan" is an abject failure and if they don't change their attitudes, the so-called Occupy "movement" will just dry up and blow away. Just the way it is.
NYC has pooper scooper laws. Dems can pickup after their pets.
Yes, legally it is the banks property. It's right there in the contract - they have a right to foreclose. Just because you don't like it, doesn't make it any less legal. Sorry. You can't pick and choose what is and isn't fair to steal in this country.
I'm not being obtuse, I'm merely pointing out how dangerous precedent can be. If you say it's ok to steal owned properties, then this would be a natural extension of that. Again, you don't get to pick and choose what you can and cannot steal in this country. Stealing is stealing is stealing.
We are going to have to agree to disagree on the loan issue. I will say though that a college student who majors in philosophy and thinks that will get them a job without more education (grad school) did not research the value of their education. In doing so, they put their future at risk. They made a bad choice and that is not my responsibility.
PH,
You completely missed the point. First, there have been numerous foreclosures where, LEGALLY, the banks have been unable to provide proof of ownership. Why? Because of what they did with those mortgages. I'm not being facetious when I say they sold them, cut them up, and swapped them around.
Okay, then the kid who shoplifts a pair of shoes deserves the same treatment as the 30 year old who jacks a car??? Morally, your view is outdated and overly harsh.
Since it is pick on Sarah day.
I thought I would wish you a nice Tuesday Sarah.
How you define a fair wage?
There has been talk about how the United States has used more than their fair share of the worlds resources. Now that other countries are competing against us by producing products for less, we are complaining that our wages have been depressed. There are many complaints that the CEO's make too much money. That corporate greed is out of control. Profits are too high, we are taking advantage of low wage workers from other countries. College students are having a hard time finding jobs. The poor are getting poorer by the day.
What is the answer?
From my personal experience if I do not take responsibility for my choices, it seems very unfair to force society to take responsibility. I did go back to school so I could better support myself and my family. No it was not easy and I still have a ways to go to pay off my loans. The question then becomes if we are going to help specific people because they are struggling what are we going to do for the people that sacrificed to make it work for themselves?
We actually have more ways of becoming "rich" then in any other time in history. You can be a model, a sports star, song writer, author, inventor, programmer, actor, producer, etc.. There is higher education available at many levels. You can still make a decent living working with your hands, your mind and your ideas.
This link give you a break down of our economy.
http://useconomy.about.com/od/grossdomesticproduct/f/GDP_Components.htm
Basically a very large and important part of our economy is providing services to each other.
If we look deeper a lot of these items would be considered somewhat of a luxury.
This wasted money is what drives our economy.
Think about that for a moment.
When we talk about unfairness, we are really talking about the extras.
Yes there are homeless people, but I hate to say this but there is always going to be homeless people. One of the prime examples was the man with the golden voice. I have not heard how he is doing now. This was a man who had everything that you are talking about, but threw it all away. Society, can not help him until he helps himself.
It all comes back to personal responsibility. You have to take control of your own life. Society cannot do that for you, or I should say a free society cannot do that for you. You have to have the room to fail, to learn from your mistakes. To figure out how to help yourself out of it. Once you understand that you made a mistake, it is at that point we can help. Not before.
One of the issues is that kids get pushed to go to college without all the information, NOT everybody should go to college, Not everybody needs to go to college.
We have people with teaching degrees defaulting on loans all the time, some have taken 50 - 120K to become teachers, REALLY they couldn't or somebody couldn't show them how much a teacher's starting salary is going to be? Many claim to not even know they have to pay the loans back, others claim they thought they only had to pay what they could afford back.
There is information all over the internet for students/parents/counselors to put in a estimated starting salary and what the borrower will be able to afford, and we also hear all the time that companies won't hire them because they have too much debt, Really it isn't because you have too much debt, it is because you are STUPID.
They are the 99%, of the no education, no job, no future, no clue, no hope, dregs of society!
Yes, and people in a situation where the banks can't prove ownership can pursue it court. There have already been success stories here. But the majority of foreclosures are, in fact, legal. Until it's proven that the foreclosure is illegal, it is not right to take back the home.
This has nothing to do with what I'm saying and you know it. This comment is about punishment. I never discussed punishment. That's up to a jury to decide. I merely said, whether you steal a lollipop or you steal a house, you are still stealing and it's still wrong.
Tuition goes up because funding goes down, it's the way schools are able to maintain curriculum
Come on Sarah, don't quit now, you are amusing.
There You Go:
Capitalism has infiltrated the OWS/Democratic Party.
No one can run from it.
Sara
I hate to say it,but you are wasting your breath! There is no doubt of a resent uptick in the amount of right wing trolls on the web! I don't even believe half are real. I would bet, there is a room somewhere,owned by Carl Rove, full of right wing trolls!! I know if I planed to spend $500,000,000.00 ,i would do the same thing! Drown out the desist,and miss inform. If you are a republican your argument is less taxes for the rich, Obama is a socialist,and if you are poor you must deserve it. there is going to be a non stop smear offensive against OWS, and it will be well funded! Austerity does not work! It is ok to raise the taxes on the poor,but not on the rich, It is ok to spend the money on military industrial complex, but not on the education, it is ok to tell woman what they can and can't do with there body,but it is not ok to protest,unless you are one of them( the tea party is the republican party) i just wish all Americans would think for themselves, and not let lies told to them miss inform!!
All these people on here feel this way or that in regards to what's happening to our country and continue to go about it the wrong way. You get a couple of people that actually start talking about what's wrong with our country and everyone has snide comments to make with one or two examples to support opposing views. For instance, I read a couple of comments about about a homeless family with 3 kids living in a foreclosed home. You actually use that single case to support everyone that's homeless? All I have to say is grow up and live in the real world. People from all walks of life are hurting and it doesn't have to be this way. Too bad empathy seems to allude most of the posters on here.
Everyone knows this country is going to sh*t and you guys just keep bashing each other and continue to accomplish absolutely nothing. When the finger pointing and name calling stops then perhaps an adult conversation can be had about the real issues at hand. We all know the Government has gone to hell in a hand basket. We all know they are bought by the highest bidder. There's no secret there. The real issue everyone should be discussing is how do we, as a society, fix this out of control train? Business as usual is not an option in my opinion.
It perplexes me to no end how people sympathize with the same greed mongers that started this downward spiral.
Wrong. This is the biggest and most dangerous lie in the U.S. today. There are so many awesome jobs that don't require a college degree but somewhere along the line we've decided to worship financiers, accountants, lawyers and marketers over the people who fix our cars, build our homes and move our belongings. But, the reality is that the latter jobs not only provide a good living, but are the backbone of small business in this country.
Every day that we teach our kids that college is the only way, we sell this country out. There needs to be balance - and we need to start appreciating blue collar work again.
I went to college. My boyfriend did not. He manages a locally-owned grocery store, where he puts in an honest day's work for an honest day's pay. He makes a good living, has no debt and will work his way up to partnership if he doesn't set out on his own. THAT is the American dream. Not a degree and a seat in the closest cubicle.
Sarah trade practices didn't collapse this country the liberal left like Maxine Waters and Barney Franks to kill the investigation into Frank Raines head of the GSEs and the 1992 policy to give anyone who could fog a mirror a loan on a home.
Secondly the people who would leverage the equity in thier home to buy fancy cars and live outside thier means during the housing bubble.
The ratios to blame for housing colapse: Banks 10% , Homeowners 25% , Lawmakers 40% , GSEs 25%
Lawmakers set the rules, GSEs help set those rules , Banks offered those to the buyers,, its one big dog and pony show that collapsed and the public suffered.
The president at the time Bush, even tried to stop or slow down the problem (2002-2005 hearings) but the DEMs stopped it. Being head of the financial committee has a alot of pull thus I blame most of the collapse on Barney Franks.
Hell Maxine Waters even praised Frank Raines for doing a great job and praised 100% financing and desktop underwriting,, two of the main problems which led people to being upside down in thier homes.
ive noticed the right wing trolls as too.i cant believe there are that many people that are deluded about where their interests lie.if thats the case someone with money is paying to make it seem like the weathys point of view is the popular point of view.gee they wouldnt do that would they?fox news.i guess they would.sarah ive enjoyed your posts please continue
The OWS folk think they are independent. That's funny. They have always been a tool of the Left and especially of BHO.
Paul,
Don't worry, just on lunch.
PH,
Because when your home is in foreclosure you can afford to retain an attorney? What you call stealing, I call utilization. The entire swaps, derivative, mortgage crisis, was constructed by the too big banks, and here you are complaining about a homeless family. Perhaps this comes down to some simple humanity.
If stealing is universally wrong, then the punishment should be universal.
There's a slow train coming.
Im starting a new movment its called FTW movment anyone want to join?
Anyone who's calling these people losers has a fundemental misunderstanding of what Capitalism is and how our financial system actually operates. We haven't had a Capitalist system in this country for about 30 years. Our current market isn't free. This isn't class warfare, it's an attempt at class cooperation, to get both those both politicians and Wall St. bankers who've profitted from this rigged system, not to give away their money, but to free up the opportunities we've lost, and to reform the system so that our needs align.
Let's break our system down first...
Than, we mix into this the political/legal side of things...
All of this added together means, no capital requirements, no transparency, no stoppage of manipulation/fraud. Our market has now gone from having aligned interests with the public, where banks invest in the most innovative and productive manufacturers, who are forced by the free market to higher standards, to the banks having their interests lay in dolling out as much debt to citizens as possible, regardless of the liklihood of that debt being paid back. Afterall, they're protected with tax payer money, and the Fed can always print more to cover up what's actually taking place. How do lenders not have a fiduciary duty to me, when they're making money off of my obligations/investments, and when they screw up it's again my money that bails them out???
These are complicated concepts that individually, without an advanced degree in economics, we might not all get, but what OWS does understand, what everyone can grasp, is that something is inherently WRONG. We have a whole class of political and intellectual elite in this country, pundits, think tanks, universities, politicians, who's job it is to figure this crap out for the people. It is part of the people's job to inform them that something is wrong.
They, being both Wall St and Washington, have breached this contract and killed our opportunity, now OWS is excused from the contract, ergo a movement based in civil disobedience. That's the social contract called government. Our consideration is that we work hard and obey the law, which is what the majority of citizens, including those at OWS, do. Their half of the consideration is to ensure freedom and opportunity. That is class cooperation, not class warfare.
All stealing is wrong. Punishment should reflect the crime. But I'm not really discussing punishment. We are wasting our breathe here.
There are class action lawsuits that are working. There was news about a successfully one the other day. There are also charitable organizations that will help.
But two wrongs don't make a right, any way you slice. Just because you, Sarah, thinks that every bank that forecloses is wrong, does not make it ok to start taking over foreclosed homes because we feel like it.
As much as we all hate to admit it, there are people in the world who deserve to be foreclosed on. People who used their homes like ATM machines, brought more house that they could afford, took out mortgages with no down payments and threw money away on material things instead of a safety net do NOT deserve to have the home they carelessly jeopardized.
Now, I realize that there are people who are stuck in a bad situation that is not their fault. I feel badly for them but I have a hard time believing that is the majority.
Yep, I'm complaining about this homeless family. They chose to not finish free public high school, they chose to have three kids while living in a shelter, they chose not to have consistent jobs and they probably chose to do drugs. The tax payers and local charities have provided a roof over this family's head for their entire adult existence. That is enough in my book, considering the god awful choices they have made. The only ones I feel bad for are the kids, who should be in foster care.
I do have humanity. I go about it the right way - by volunteering my time, food and other donations to food banks where I live. But I certainly don't want to pay more taxes so that I can support the kind of behavior this family has demonstrated even more than I already do.
PH... an educated society is a society better able to thrive and prosper. Stating that education is not necessary is ridiculous and dangerous for "We the people". Our country prospered during the decades following WW2 due to many factors due to increased access to education by the middle class and the lower middle classes.
“I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of Constitutional power.”
“Educate and inform the whole mass of the people...they are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.”
― Thomas Jefferson
Sarah; Transparency? College isn't a public school, They don't have to do anything. You want public college join the military.
What are you talking about?
I didn't say education wasn't necessary. I said college isn't always necessary. I said that there needs to be a balance and that there is a place for carpenters, painters, mechanics and the like in this country.
There are more forms of education than finance, accounting and the like. There are technical schools, vocational schools, culinary schools, driving schools and so on that provide a different kind of education that is also valuable. We need to appreciate ALL kinds of education and work, not just traditional college degrees.
Poor Obama, the OWS that has attached itself to his ass has morphed from a dingleberry to a willknot, and no matter how hard he tries, it willnot detach. Pelosi put it there with super glue and there it will stay. OWS is the biggest collection of nothings and misfits this country has ever seen, and they will be attached to Obama until election day.
notliborcon; Jefferson was referring to a valuable education, not far leftist theories that many colleges push on the students now.
Paul-1820470
Is occupy still around? Really? So tell me again, what is it they want?
A bowel movement.....
Sarah
WOW, what did you have for lunch? Pure Adrenaline. You go girl.
Before we go and forgive college debt, my daughter has 3 more years to go (at least). Can we wait a few more years on this one...?
Russ
Good One. Thanks
PH,
I never said there weren't justifiable forclosures, but when the mortgage industry, in and of itself, is engaging in the type of behavior that collapses our entire economy, perhaps we should halt kicking people out of their homes, until we get to the bottom of the problem.
Please, don't whine about taxes. Discretionary spending, the taxed money that gets spent on things like FIA and SNAP, is the smallest area of spending by our government. If you wanna bi**h about your taxed being used poorly, take a look at Afghanistan and Iraq. You're going to be taxes either way, would you rather bomb children or feed them? Furthermore, your taxes HAVEN'T gone up.
It's presumptuous to say, "You go about it the right way". You may go about it the "right" way for YOU, but YOU aren't EVERYONE.
JJ,
No, college isn't public school, WE PAY FOR IT. All the more reason for them to be open with us about where that money is going.
PH,
I think you just defeated your own arguments regarding who is really responsible for the out of control student debt. You acknowledge right here that, whether it is true or not, kids are made to believe that they MUST go to college no matter what. This is instilled in their little brains from the time they can understand it. They know that a college degree in this era is the same as a GED decades ago, and if you want to be competitive and make it in the world then you absolutely must go to college. Without getting too much into how the public school system fails to prepare children for career life (or the necessary preparations for getting to that point), children often times end up in college and, yes, can ace their exams, study any subject, blah blah blah, but they are usually NOT capable of comprehending what it means to take out TENS of THOUSANDS of dollars of debt that they will never be able to walk away from, for the rest of their lives, until it is paid off.
Now, enter Sallie Mae and other student lenders. They know full well that college costs are skyrocketing, have been for years, and show no sign of slowing down. They KNOW that kids are told that college is a necessity in this country (the huge lie that you admit exists). They KNOW that bankruptcy doesn't clear ANY student loans anymore (even the private, unsecured ones, WTF?!), and they KNOW kids don't know what it is like to owe so much money under penalty of wage garnishment, permanently destroyed credit, and all of the secondary effects from those (employment credit checks, housing credit checks, federal forms asking about federal loans in default, etc).
If these kids are so naive, and these bankers know exactly what they are doing, then WHY are the BANKS not ALSO responsible for the risk these students present when taking out massive loans? Any other loan these kids might apply for is HEAVILY scrutinized, in fact it is hard for them to get a $500 CREDIT CARD, yet they can get UN-cosigned loans, for tens of thousands of dollars, over the course of a TEN MINUTE PHONE CALL.
And you have the nerve to believe that the STUDENTS should shoulder ALL of the responsibility for such a predatory situation???? Whatever happened to banks lending money INTELLIGENTLY and assuming that there is some risk to just giving their money away? Now, with the federal governments protection, students assume ANY AND ALL RISK associated with massive loans, and the student loan companies can come after them for life.
If you wan't to talk about personal responsibility, then student loans should be on the table during bankruptcy. It is the ONLY way to ensure the banks are responsible with their own money, that students pay a price for erasing those loans (bankruptcy isn't pretty and it doesn't look good, but it isn't a PERMANENT black mark against someone, unlike what is possible now under current law).
To me, the banks giving this blood money to naive students and assuming no risk is like Hulk Hogan bodyslamming a six year old for making a face at him.
Paul,
I'm a liberal. I had testicles and aborted fetuses. Duh.
To Sarah and grilledcheesesandwich,
I have followed your argument, and done the research, and both of you make valid points. On one hand, I'm not for bailing out those who make loans they cannot pay back because that makes things harder on everyone, and most of us are having enough problems taking care of ourselves. On the other hand, I don't think Big Banks should have the right to fix prices as they see fit. I made out a loan that I COULD pay back, seeing as I was working two part-time jobs. What I didn't expect was that the bank that approved the loan suddenly hiked their interest rates by THREE FULL PERCENTAGE POINTS. So now, since the banks hiked their interest rates, I owe more money than I did before. Thankfully, I was able to adjust by saving up more money (not always an option when you have other bills to pay, but luckilly I had parents that helped me out since they knew I was really trying.) I avoided foreclosure by the skin of my teeth. If not for my parents, I'd have had to live on the streets for a good two, three years tops. All because the banks decided to be b****es, and hike their interest rates. And believe it or not, they are paying big bucks to both parties for this "right." So really, this isn't a matter of left or right, Democrat or Republican, or even Liberal or Conservative. They ALL take bribes from deep pockets to further the ends of Wall Street. THAT is what the OWS movement is about. That, and the outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries. You all know our manufacturing sector fell apart because of that.
I also agree with the fact that college is not a requirement - a college degree is nothing more than a piece of paper, especially in this day and age. I can guarantee you that I can repair and build computers at least as well as someone who received four years of education on the subject. Know why? Because I've had many years of hands-on experience. I also got a decent-paying job in graphics design with no college degree whatsoever. If someone sees how good you are at something, they WILL hire you over someone who shows them a piece of paper.
This is reasonable, but that's not what you were saying.
I can discuss how I want my taxes allocated whenever I want to. And, yes, it bothers me that the people five miles down the street from my office get to shoot heroin, drink beer and make babies all day long on my dime, when I have to get up and go to work. I'm allowed to discuss my frustration with that.
And I would say that not stealing things from people, paying my taxes and donating my time and money is going about it the right way. I don't see how anyone could argue that.
Fixed it for you.
Sarah
Yuck. That was un-called for.
In high school, we were taught that we had to get a college degree. In job shadows at potential employers, we were taught that we had to get a college degree. At home, we were often taught that we had to get a college degree. We were taught to chase our dreams, to be a career we'd love, or else we'd be miserable all are lives and probably self-destruct (no, really, in English we read "Death of a Salesman" specifically to make that point).
We were also taught that there was plenty money to go around, and that we'd be paying student loans off for awhile, but that that was normal and perfectly fine. We were taught that we could get part-time jobs while in college, and that everything would be fine, so long as we worked hard and kept at it.
We were not taught how to actually manage finances - we had to learn that ourselves through logic and trial and error. We were not taught that the interest rates on our loans could more than double the total we had to pay back - we were told to look for a low interest rate, but having only had small savings accounts with interest earning us maybe $10 a year, many of us had no way to understand the enormity, and no one bothered to say a thing.
We didn't know how much harder it'd be for us than for our parents: that tuition raised about 7 times faster than inflation since the 80's, or that wages have raised slower than inflation (the lower the position, the worse). We didn't know we'd go through school and graduate in a recession, struggling or outright unable to find enough work to pay for basic living and avoid drowning in bills.
Many of us had no way to know how big a debt we were taking on, and we couldn't predict that we would be forced into default in record numbers, with record amounts, or that it would financially ruin us for the rest of our lives.
By the way, just a note: I don't want my loans totally forgiven. I wouldn't complain about a little help, but hopefully I'll be among those who manage. What I'd really like to see is high-schoolers being properly and clearly taught what to expect. I've been doing my best to help my youngest sibling understand what lies ahead, but I can only do so much.
I never talked about who is responsible for college debt. Your post has nothing to do with mine. Those who choose to go to college and take out a loan are responsible for that loan.
All I'm saying is that college isn't the right choice for everyone and there are other careers out there that are equally as valuable. We as a country need to value alternative paths and that message needs to be delivered by parents and schools. I never commented on the public school system but I agree that public schools need to teach children about different professions. They should bring back home economics and shop class, but the feminist movement all but did away with that.
So, I guess I don't really understand why you are arguing with me on this. If you believe in loan forgiveness, so be it. We can agree to disagree on that. But I didn't negate myself at all.
Gimmee, gimmee, gimmee and I don't want any stinkin' responsibilty. Why should people work, struggle and strive for a better life when the 'wealth redistributors' aka: the progressive government, will take all that hard work and give it to someone too lazy to do anything but whine?
What is lost is the moral compass, the right from the wrong. Progressive policies are all about punishing people who actually work and earn a living. They want a society of dumbed down underachievers, they need these dimwits to stay in power since power is what the game is all about. Intelligent, hardworking people are not grist for the progressive mill, they need the professional 'victims' the ones always whining that life is not 'fair' and that the only way to achieve fairness is to make everyone equally poor.
The OWS nonsense currently in vogue is more about the standard anarchists, union drones, whiney 'students' and radical socialist/communists doing their 'thang' and their 'thang' is always the same. Violence, riots, destruction and running away from responsibilty. They want to 'overthrow' the system, the evil and corrupt system and never, ever do they have any intelligent offering to replace said system. They are all about destruction, never about constructive positivity. They are pathetic.
PH,
And I would say that utilizing resources, that would otherwise go to waste, in order to shelter people, who otherwise wouldn't be sheltered is also the right way.
What makes you the expert or correct?
You can, but I can tell you my thoughts back. My thoughts are, you've never lived anyone of those people's lives. Have you ever gone out there and asked them their names, where they come from, how they got there? Do you know that they're all on assistance? Do you even know how much of "your dime" is going to them?
And why don't you care about where the rest of "your dimes" go? You know, the substantial amount.
Where did I say anything different then that? Where did I make the claim that all foreclosures were wrong, or all borrowers were good?
CJ,
Well put. And I agree completely. Both parties are bought, and nothing will be accomplished until we address that.
Um, yes. As I've said many times I volunteer at the food bank. I see these people all the time and I'm happy that the bank supports them with food that their children can eat. I feel bad for the children. That doesn't make me agree with their lifestyle or any happier about the public dole.
All I was saying is that you never explicitly stated that approach.
PH,
Here's some truth about "welfare" for you...
ConstitutionThumper - You clearly don't know anything about student loans.
Federal loans are given out to people without being scrutinized, the only scrutiny done is to make sure they haven't hit their yearly or max limit.
Private loans have been heavily scrutinized since the Government took over the FELP program with Obama Care. Try getting a non-cosigned loan from Discover or one of the few private loan lenders left.
Prior to the Government take over; there were some companies that wanted good books and ran borrowers though credit checks, while other didn't because they were perfectly happy giving private money away to get the Government subsidized (guaranteed) loans (Guess what they are all out of business now)
If I can lend you money and the Government is going to guarantee I get paid back, why would I ever look into or care about your credit? (this happened in the housing industry and student loan industry)
FYI - When Sarah talks about transparency with public universities, she is 100% correct and I don't agree with her on most things, but to argue that tax payer funded universities shouldn't be transparent is ridiculous and ignorant.
Also do you know why Student loans aren't forgiven in bankruptcy? Because in the past professionals (mostly doctors/lawyers/Dentist) would rake up hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt, open up a practice and then file for bankruptcy.
"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower, l952"
And I know you all are not Texas Oil Millionaires. Stop shooting yourselves in the foot.
Sarah, that's why those who scam the system will do so - it's money they don't have to work for. That's why limits were put on public assistance in the first place. However, it's only hurting those who are willing to legitimately work hard, and maybe use it as a supplemental income while they get themselves on their feet.
Sarah must be re-fueling.
So the message of the article is that the OWS movement is just another group that is being used by a political party. Much the same as the religious right is being used by the Republican party, they are given lip service in order to get their voting blocks only.
Well I believe that you are completely wrong.
As the majority of people are being disenfranchised by a social-political-economic system that turns it back on them the only alternative is to kill that system. We are all victims of a silent coupe that took place since the 1980's where the rights of citizens were being undermined while the power of corporations and the wealthiest few rose creating wealth at an exponential rate for themselves only.
This isn't the death of death of democracy I am speaking about, but rather a return to it. By having a government that responds to the interests of the majority of its' people, not just the entitled few who pay off their puppet politicians.
This sham of paying the majority of people as little as possible while a few wealthy corporate pimps live like royalty will come to an end. Death to the New World Order.
Sarah - I don't usually agree with you as I am a middle of the road reacher from the "right side". But I will say this...
I don't agree with the fact that a family is kicked out of their home (becoming homeless), then letting some other homeless family have the initial families home. Why were the original people kicked out in the first place...? This is where we differ a bit (if I read all the posts correctly).
I see your heart and understand you want to do good things for the underprivileged people that surround us. That is where you and I agree. We need to be doing something while dealing with the 'here and now' properly. I wish we could focus on that aspect and come to a consensus in the middle on how to move forward. Problem is, we dig in our heels and demand what we believe, while plugging our ears and not hearing what the rest of humanity is saying. There are many sides with "wishes". Let's work together and find the middle. Leave the fighting to those who do nothing for society.
You have a brilliant mind and I am not saying that in a hurtful way. You post on here almost daily with very sound reasoning. I don't always agree with what you say, but you do a great job none-the-less. Please don't fall into the rut of fighting on this forum with people who will kill your passion (me included). There has to be a way to better spend time for us all - rather than tearing each other down on MSNBC. All that is accomplished here is the dividing of teams. This does nothing to promote a spirit of unity and cooperation.
To richardharrow,
No one who isn't in Washington DC is saying Social Security should be abolished. It's there to help those who LEGITIMATELY need help. I know it will hurt everyone if it's abolished altogether. However, everyone is saying the system is flawed, and needs an overhaul. The politicians are only willing to play one extreme or another though. To them, there is no middle ground.
Don't worry OWS you are not alone the Democratic party thinks they speak for any American not currently running for office as a republican.
I have a friend in Miami (A Cuban American) His father owned a hardware store in Havana before and during the Batista presidency. The people thought that Castro was going to be their Saviour through out the revolution. Once it was over they rejoiced as Castro nationalized the large industries...thinking they wont touch our small business and our home....we are family. Next Castro nationalized the medium sized business's, they were thinking that was the line.... What would they live on if they took the small business's...right? They showed up at his hardware store and announced it belonged to the state. Pheew They still had their home....until they showed up and told him, your home belongs to the people, you get 2 rooms and get all your stuff out of the other rooms 2 other families are moving in. The left for the US the next day on a raft built of inner tubes and wood. They see the same thing happening now. The entire family is hoping Fidel dies soon and Raul opens up the country again before the same thing happens here.
Concerned One,
Thank you very much. It's quite funny, because my friends tell me I have a "Beautiful Mind", get it??? Which, apparently is supposed to be humerous, and alas, I guess it is.
It's always refreshing when someone can disagree with you, respectfully!
Concernedone, I applaud you. :) I wish more folks were willing to work things out.
To jollyoldsoul1,
Wow, I couldn't imagine living under those circumstances! Thanks for sharing that. :)
To One-More-Voice,
Haven't you heard? Nobody works things out, this is the age of "My political party has the right of things, and if you don't agree with them, f*** you."
CJ - The real problem IMO is that the leaders of the Team/Parties throw gas on the fire so we argue about the stupid stuff.
Don't you think that both sides want the Government fraud looked into and stopped? Don't you think both sides want the crony capitalism to stop? Don't you think both sides want to stop the politicians friends from becoming wealthy off the tax payers backs? Don't you think both sides want the abuse of Government programs to stop?
And by both sides I mean the people voting not the politicians because we know most politicians on both sides want the status quo above to continue.
CJ - That's actually why I bothered to sign up. Got tired of just seeing folks flaming each other, so I figured I'd start trying to peacefully give my 2 cents and hope maybe it has at least some small effect - not necessarily in changing anyone's opinion, but just trying to be an example of listening and thinking before speaking.
I know I'm naive, but I'm okay with that. I get a little more sunshine than a cynic. :)
Tom - I can guarantee that a lot of folks on both side want the same thing, actually. I was raised by and among conservative Republicans, and am now surrounded by progressives, liberals, Democrats... I've heard them state many of the same desires, and point to each other as being the cause of the problems.
Of course, there is a lot that they disagree on, too, and some of it... they really do both have valid points, but the arguments are too "pure." Often, they either fail to see the middleground, or they figure that losses from one extreme or another are worth the gains, and so it's viewed as a black and white issue.
And yeah, leaders (and media) definitely tend to define the split better and better.
Anyone who's played with Photoshop or similar programs have probably seen how sharpening an image (which works with color "edge" contrasts) or increasing color contrast too much tends to make it turn hideous pretty quick, and can easily make the whole picture unrecognizable.
Tom, I had to take time out to think about what you had said before I understood it. I think the voters (save the people that are committing this forgery) want their politicians to stop the BS. I'm not blaming the voters. I'm blaming the politicians themselves for not taking the time out of their busy schedule to look into what's affecting the people, but yet you can bet they'll spend billions of dollars looking into what's affecting Wall Street. With Social Security fraud, the only solution they see is to make it harder on the very people that are being affected by the problem. (I see the phrase "cut off entitlements" thrown around way too much in Washington because that's the easy solution.) There are many people in this country who have a legitimate need for SS. Not all recipients are looking to sponge the Govt. for as much as they can get - most are happy that the Govt. is helping them to be better able to provide for themselves while they look for better jobs.
I find it ironic to no end that it's the Medicare and Social Security recipients who are accusing young people, who receive neither, of demanding "handouts."
To further clarify, I want more decisions in Washington to have more thought put into them. There needs to be more scrutiny placed on these people. (Hey, if you're getting money off the backs of the people, the Govt. has the right to know what their money are being spent on.) I'm tired of seeing stories like "Woman on Medicaid (or is it Medicare? It's the one that's NOT for seniors, I always get the two mixed up) spends $600 on Gucci sunglasses" or "Man on food stamps spends all his benefits on fillet mignon" or similar. That's a bit of a stretch, but you get my point.
But then again, change has to start from the top, so maybe I'm asking for too much. :|
Toasty...I know that you have a mind-bloc for anything that isnt socialist...but I will try to explain it you(even as I acknwledge that it will not get through to you)....I own and manage a good number of apartments. When renting one out, I get 1 to 3 applicants who are supported by SSI....These are usually younger people who found a way for liberal government to sign them up for benefits. I have been doing this for twenty years and the number of them increases and increases.....These are usually people who have never paid into the SS system.... If the government thinks that they deserve welfare, then put them on welfare...not into a program that only a portion of us pay into.....Your congressman pays nothing to support these people and yet they are the one making it a give away program for the rest of us to pay for...
Toasty...
Most "Medicare and Social Security recipients" have paid hard earned money into those programs at no choice of their own. No wonder they do not see those programs' benefits as 'handouts'. I think I'd feel the same way about the increasing amounts of money that I've paid in.
CJ...
I would prefer that less decisions get made in Washington DC...rather than have Washington DC put more thought into the increasing number of decisions they are making. How many things are made better by the thinking ghouls in DC ??? Education reform ? Immigration ? National minimum wage ? If decisions on things like this were made at the state level, citizens would have a whiff more control. We have an expanding amount of control centered in Washington DC right now...doesn't look to be working out very well ! It is a government that believes it can best make decisions for 300+ million people living in 50 states spread out over 3000 miles and in it's current form, DC seems to resent the idea of states trying to make rules and policies for themselves.
The "government that governs least, governs best"...please nobody demand "links"...but I think that quote came from Thomas Jefferson. Whoever did say it...well, it certains applies now more than ever.
Yes Tony, and now they're taking my money without me getting anything in return, and calling ME the socialist.
PH go to an Intel interview and tell them that the Master's degrees they require are not needed. See how fast the kick you out of the door. You cannot get a tech sector job without at least a Bachelor's, some companies, like Intel, even require a minimum of a Master's for most of their jobs.
College may not be required but since the days of living wages, raises, and fair pay are dead and buried you have to go to college in order to qualify for higher income brackets unless you have mounds of experience or are a savant or something.
Entry level programming jobs require a bachelor's and generally pay between 45k and 70k a year depending on where that job is at and your own personal skills. They will not even open the application without a BS. Our country is deficient in skilled workers because not enough people are getting the right degrees. Weed need scientists, teachers, engineers, and technology buffs not more liberal arts majors.
@tony,
Touche. I extend my hand to you. :D
This guy just totally pwned me!
Geowil, did you only read the first sentence of my post?Go and read my post again, please. The ENTIRE post.
I never said that college degrees aren't important for certain professions. Heck, I have a degree. I said that there are a host of awesome jobs that don't require a traditional college degree - and that I think it's a shame this country no longer values those professions (like carpentry, painting, plumbing, HVAC and the like). I think it's sad that we tell our kids they have to go to college, even if they have a skill working with their hands. Not every child is cut out to be an engineer, accounting, lawyer or finance guru - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I guess no one here is seeing how the gov't is now taxing homeownership
The GSEs are tightening up so tight that people have to goto FHA loans to buy a home,
As of April 9th 2012 the FHA PMI is 1.75% up front and 120 bips on the monthly payment
Example: 200K loan
PMI = $3,500 added to upfront closing costs with an additional $203 per month added to you payment
Thats HUGE money the gov't is getting and the gov't now controlls nearly all home finacing.
Liberals wanted big brother and gov't control this is the first step and next is healthcare in 2016
Sarah, your point is well taken.
For the record, I'm not saying I'm against welfare. I just find it frustrating that a lot of welfare recipients are not on the straight and narrow (at least in my state). I believe in welfare reform so that the people who are using it as a step up get the help that they need and those who are abusing it are called on it.
To that end, the federal government is far from efficient. The poster who said that the states should have more power is 100% correct. If some of these decisions were left up to state government, the people would have a lot more say. Once it goes federal, the people lose a lot of control.
But Randy, I thought they were already taxing homeownership? What are property taxes? Oh well... learn something new every day. :)
Occupy Wall Street protesters - Anarchists - Van Jones !!!
What a three some for pets of the Democratic Party. That is almost as good as having Hilary Rosen, Ed Schultz, Bill Mahers, and Chris Matthews as spokes-people for the Democratic party.
PH...
I agree with you. Last week in the news it was widely reported that about half of last year's college graduates could not find work in their chosen professions. My son is 27 years old and had a checkered high school resume. He is a hands-on type of person. He has built a solid contracting business doing repairs thru insurance companies whose clients' homes have been damaged from flooding, fire, storms, and accidents...and all those maladies will surely to fall upon American homeowners. Somebody capable has to be able to figure out and make needed repairs.
I have one brother who graduated from college 25 years ago and he paints houses. I have another brother who went to two colleges over three years and he's not done much of anything. I did graduate from college and have done well.
In a crystal ball...I can see my son indeed graduating a few years ago from a college he possibly got into because he is intelligent...but either unsatisfied with the job he found himself in or in the economic mess we have today, unemployed or underemployed. And those two options could have led to a more dire consequence...him not being able to afford to live on his own, thus still calling his old bedroom "home".
Ido...
I find it ironic that Van Jones, formerly handed a very important position in the Obama White House as "Green Energy Czar"...able to influence decisions impacting all American taxpayers...turns out to become a titular head of the 'Occupy' wierdness.
What kind of other kooks do we have working on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue ???
The dangerous kind, apparently.
tony-268769....
All you have to do is a search of Mr. Obama's Cabinet members and his Czars....just about all are as radical and incompetent as you can get.
Mr. DOJ Holder, Mr. DOE Chu, Ms. DHS Napolitano, Mr. FED Bernanke, Mr. Treasury Geithner, and the [41 Obama White House staffers and some of their aides, in addition to the HUNDREDS of elected Congressional Representative and HUNDREDS of government workers who have failed to pay their BACK IRS TAXES] are at the top of the list.
And, behind the White House curtains.....Mr. Soros.
A lot of you people seem to be under the assumption that the banks are completely scott free, that this is all the problem of working people. Allow me to illustrate a point for you. Banks use a practice where they try to sell you a "Cure-All", basically, something that will allow you to keep your home, to keep you fed, etc etc. In doing this, however, they don't mention the fine rules, hidden fees, or even the harsher penalties, all in hopes that most will make a mistake, slip up, and fall on their face, allowing them to take most everything said family owns.
Has this worked for the banks? Yes, it has. Predatory lending practices are what caused the bubble to burst in the first place, thereby breaking the nation down into a depression. Some people DID live past their means, yes. I will admit that. Not EVERYONE is guilt-free. But my father was at the time trying to save his small business after a slumlord bought up the land from the old lady who owned it. Said slumlord started taking the fees from the billboard advertisements, and raised the rent. Should I repeat. SMALL. FREAKING. BUSINESS. As in THE PEOPLE THAT WERE CRUSHED THE WORST, CREATING A MONOPOLY OF BIG BUSINESSES.
Did you read the big text that's in all caps? I made it that way so maybe you'd actually see it, or imagine me screaming it into your ear so you'd actually hear it. Either way, my father went to lawyers for help. He filed for the sort of bankruptcy where you pay back over several years, rather than the one that wipes the slate clean. He also started working for a man that tried to steal his old customers, and got into debt with the Government because of bad tax advice from the company that does our taxes. All because the man he was working for didn't do his share of the taxes that he was supposed to be paying the Government, and is now trying to say my father wasn't working there.
The point I'm trying to make is, good, hard working people that break their backs are losing just as hard, all thanks to these loans. Bad things happen, and sometimes we have to take out loans to save our homes, our meals, our clothes, our families. I'm certain you talk a big game now, but wait until you get crunched with no way out. The second you'd fall into the same scenario, you'd tearfully beg the big banks to give you a loan... and then they'd do everything in their power to finish you off and strip you of all your possessions so they could sell them for a profit.
I believe property tax is a state level tax
FHA is more of a gov't level. upfront costs are now 1.75% vs 1% of the loan amount.
The kicker is on 20 & 30year loans the 1.2% monthly charge ,, for example on a 200K loan at 3.52% the P&I is $900/month but the Gov't Mortgage Insurance is $200 a month raising your total payment to $1,100 a month.
So $3,500 added costs upfront + interest of 2,173 on the 3,500 = $5,673 + $200 a month back side for a min of 5years = $17,673 in min. added costs to a FHA loan via the GOV'T
but you don't reach 78% equity in the loan until year 10 = $24,000 in costs + $5,673(upfront costs)
And I thought the banks were the robber barons
The difference is that Van Jones, Hilary Rosen, Ed Schultz, Bill Mahers, and Chris Matthews are all, you know, RIGHT.
Thanks Tony!
It sounds like your son is doing well. I actually met someone in that business at a wedding recently. I had no idea a job like that even existed. Found it fascinating, really. Today, he owns his own company in Florida repairing damages like the ones you discussed. His wife just left a good post to do his marketing. The two couldn't be happier - they work hard, they call their own rules and they don't sit behind a desk 24/7. And it's a good, solid business that we will always need in this country.
To that end, the gentleman who taught me how to paint my house easily clears 150k a year and has gotten so good with his craft that he has a waiting list. He actually picks jobs now. Back breaking work? Yes. But he loves it. And, after doing most of the work on my home myself, I kind of get it. It was more fun then my desk, I felt healthier for moving around all day long and I got a real sense of satisfaction when I finished a room.
My boyfriend had a checkered high school as well. He would have imploded if he went to college. It took him a while to figure things out (if you know what I mean) but he got it together and is doing well now. I'd like to see him go into business for himself - he just needs to convince himself he's capable.
Best of luck to you and yours!
Boy I've enjoyed watching Sarah get skewered today. She's usually found lurking around articles where she and her buddies can gang up on conservatives and anti-far leftists and call them juvenile names.
What a fun lunch break!
i think that the 99% is actually about 1/2%.
what a joke they are.
they are like flies, mosquito's or gnats.
can't cause any real damage except to aggravate everyone.
It's a shame people like Maxine Waters or Barney Frank represent the people of this country, any of them.
My dachshund has more intelligence than the average Occupy member.
Ruken, you crack me up. :-)
Your dog must be a genious
Funny little sheeple
Alan,
Of course the dog is a genius: walnut-sized brain, low and slow, eats off the ground. Sounds like a typical liberal.
I wonder if Ruken's dog is also looking for college loan forgiveness...
Don't you people diss Doxies. Remember, the grass is greener under my Wiener. :D
and he licks himself....
You really are not giving your dog enough credit...
Smarter and cleaner. Your dog actually got You to pay his way!
Let me put it this way: I found out about today's strike because the Occupiers went around and TAGGED several walls and buildings around my university campus with "May 1st General Strike".
Great way to earn yourselves some respect and credibility, that. Now the university gets to spend EVEN MORE of your tuition dollars on maintenance costs to clean it up. I certainly hope they can. Some rather historic buildings were defaced.
Ruken..........funniest post of the day!! thanks for standing up for us winner dog owners!!
Well Ruken, I can see who the genuis is in your family!
Ruken
Dachshunds and OWS are very much alike, neither can be trained, and both are very vindictive. Dachshunds are weiner dogs, and OWS are just weiners.
Holder to Obama while whatching a Dachshund lick his nuts: "Dont you wish you could do that"?
Obama: "Yea, but Im afraid that dog will bite me".
All you males who think your so great our dogs can turn and lick their own B--ls. And the best relationships I ever had with males all had four feet and a tail. They don't hog the remote.
Hence the name 'loner'.
Who would think such a thing?
They have a point. If they align themselves with any of the established parties, they will be compromised, as the Tea Party found out.
If they're serious and not just a bunch of park-destroying posers, they'll start their own political party and elect serious people who will work for their ideals. But that takes real effort, not just camping out, so I'm guessing we won't see it.
Too bad; I'd almost consider voting for such a party.
AG99 - the occupy "activists" were compromised the minute they started screaming that they are entitled to a whole bunch of free stuff. "Free" education, "free" housing, "free" healthcare, they are entitled to everything and anything they want - as long as someone else is paying for it.
@AG99
Agreed. I'd say their main problem is what they usually refer to as their strength: the lack of unitary voice and concrete proposals. It takes someone with knowledge of the government's resources and a good ability to reconcile competing interests to have any chance of political success. Unfortunately people that fit that profile will often gravitate around the two main political parties, and mix with a bunch of folks that do not deserve to be in charge of a grocery store, let alone a country.
At this point, Chandler Harnish is more relevant than the occupy movement. I haven't heard a peep out of them in my metro area since before Christmas. Didn't notice anybody staying home from work today, no protests, no local news coverage, etc.
OWS despises leadership which is foolish. Human herds need leaders- just ones that are inclined to look out for the group and not so much for themselves.
You can rail against the system but you have to change the system or be irrelevant. Western societies don't take kindly to people who destroy things to create things-- that they then control. Who's to say that OWS leaders will foster a system that is freer or more compassionate than the one we already have.
All signs point to OWS ushering in a system where they CONTROL and dictate- and ruthlessly crush anything and anyone they deem unfit for "their" society. They're not for freedom. Just slavery to a new, temporarily less wealthy master.
Even the average Western realizes s/he would merely be exchanging one master for another.
AG99 the Teaparty shot itself when it aligned with the pubs. But they had to start somewhere. They had the momentum but I am not sure they do now. They accomplished routing out some of the rinos but so many still remain. They epitomized conservancy and only goal was to stop spending, did that look like "the party of no" from the outside I suppose but something had to be tried to slow it down..IMO...just sayin
Without the ability to compromise the tea party is doomed to fail. OWS fail from the start
It really says something about the current right wing of the Republican party that an organization, trying very hard not to be co-opted by any political party would garner such partisan vilification. It just proves how inflexible the far right really is. Even the slightest connotation that a person or group does not believe exactly as they do should be subject to demonetization. They even have a name to demonize their own, RINO, as if they are the true Republicans. How the TPGOP are, knowingly or not, being played by the corporate interests that they whole heartily support either directly or indirectly is amusing at best and dangerous at worst. The far right may not know what they are doing, but you can bet the Koch brothers, Murdock, and Rove no exactly their motives.
The biggest issues for the OWS are income equality and social mobility. A much more knowledgeable offshoot of the OWS is the OSEC who try to shine the light on the regulations of the bankers and brokers, who at this time allow the investment/commercial bankers to use the "little ppls" deposits as capitalization for high risk financial instruments they could trade on the casino called WS. The OWS is not looking for handouts. It is looking out for the 99 percent who live in a capitalist country where profits are privatized and losses are socialized.
As we write the GOP is actively trying to remove the banking regulations that were put in place after the great financial collapse of 2008. They are actively in pursuit of shifting the tax burden from the 99.2 percent to the middle and working classes. Of course the GOP as always employ euphemisms for their proposed legislation like "broaden the tax base" or "flat tax". Other notables lately are the 25 jobs bills in the Senate which are mostly deregulation proposals. Going back a little earlier the Clean Water Act and The Clean Air Act of the Bush administration that actually lowered the standards.
Agree crazy,
The movement is about income fairness and stopping the privatization of profits and socialization of losses.
This train destined for a return to a mid-evil times culture of Lords, Barons and subjects must be derailed soon.
Ellis, you forgot the lack of responsibility, another thing they stand for
Too late for that.......they organized May Day events with unions.....unions propped up the OWS movement and helped keep it alive from the beginning.
Isn't it funny how Unions "joined" the movement as soon as they realized the greed, laziness and gullability of it's members? Occupy is just like a union(useless and costly) without the security and benefits.
American Unions backing a CANADIAN newspaper invented joke on America.
Unions and the DNC are joined at the hip........and the checkbook
Wake up, OCCUPY!
If Latin American invaders aka "illegal immigrants" get their way, you won't have a country to "occupy" much longer.
Bullfighter--and it should come as no shock that the illegal aliens ALSO protested to be given stuff THEY didn't earn!
Like anyone gives a rats rear end what these people are doing. The occutard movement flamed out and now it seems they are screaming to be relevant. They weren't relevant the first time and are even less so this time. How does it feel to be ignored losers?
Occupiers need to wake up. New York occupiers are being put to shame by these other cities.
That's okay ... ALL the Occupiers are just really pretty friggin' shameful as it is. All are complete p.o.s. ... go get a job you lazy azzed whiners.
you must work . We need your taxes to build better weapons . America has turned into a concentration camp.
no, don't work, let Nanny take it for you...and it's not a concentration camp but with Obama and Bush and Clinton's help it is a massive police state.
This thing is still going on? What a joke.
Occupy is a genuine grass roots phenomenon that really has done a huge favor to America. Bringing the topic of income disparity to the forefront of our political discussions. I hope it remains an independent source of irritation to both parties, they (the dems and repubs) deserve to be harassed and insulted for the way they have conducted the business of our country and the incredible mismanagement that has brought economic disaster to millions of our citizens.
Steve C - Watch out because I think your glass is half empty.
Look how much prosperity has been brought to this countries citizens because of our capitalistic way of life. Why don't you hop on board and enjoy your short time on the earth?
Why do occutard believers feel the need to try to make people believe this was a "grassroots" movement? It was anything but that. This so called grassroots movement was a desperate ploy by the left to blunt the Tea Party which truly was grassroots.
Gotta love the income disparity comment. Like 99% v. 1% paints the entire picture of U.S. compensation practices. Idiots. I'm not a 1%, but I'm definitely not on board with this so-called 99% so please stop assuming that the vast majority of the nation supports your cause. You don't represent me. You don't represent my friends. And, thankfully, you don't represent the majority of this country.
PH
great job.....my thoughts exactly.
OWS is anything BUT a grassroots program.
It was schemed and designed by SEIU and the Obamabot minions.
Only the Useful Idiots believe it is grassroots.
PH
You fail to see the point of the message. We don't claim to represent you. We are saying that the 1% control everything and everyone else who doesn't make millions of dollars is part of 99%. If you are not part of the 99% then you must be rich.
PH
I've been saying the same thing for a long time. I really believe that we may have 19% that think like OWS. I am also part of the 99% and don't agree with OWS in any way shape or form. This country needs to get that 19% a job so they STFU. But if we told them to get a job they'd have something else to complain about.
Satanick - STFU
Satanick,
You're black and white view on wealth in this country simply does not reflect reality. Sorry, it just doesn't. You are going to have to think more than that. I'm not part of your silly 99%, not because I'm rich, but because there is no one-size-fits-all label you can apply when it comes to compensation in the U.S. I don't need to have millions. All I need is enough to live on happily. I don't begrudge other people from having millions though - other people's money has no bearing on my life.
When you say you represent the 99%, you lie. Most people I know would never support your cause, regardless of income. So, as I said before, stop lumping us all together like we believe in the same socialist dogma that you propose. It's arrogant, misguided and insulting.
And thank you JH and IA. Nice to know the entire world hasn't gone completely insane :-)
I'm not rich and I do work hard for a living!
I have have deal with my boss, I work 40 hrs. a week and he pays for 40hrs ( I think its a good deal)
And by the way I have never been paid by a poor person yet!
I work hard and I am happy...Liberals hate me.
What you're overlooking in your raging on about OWS inadequacies is that the nation has suffered a traumatic economic jolt resulting in millions losing their credit ratings, their houses, and going into bankruptcy as a result of their job losses. I am so happy for those of you doing well. I on the other hand have to watch in horror as vets all over the country are made homeless. Your comments on how good you're doing doesn't reflect what is happening to people who can no longer gain access to the internet because they're busy surviving. All I see are a bunch of self satisfied narcissistic a-holes commenting about what a bunch of losers the OWS movement is and praising the 2nd amendment remedy Tea Party clowns.
What the OWS movement is doing is the time honored method of protesting injustice, acts of civil disobedience that create discomfort for those who robbed the system blind, its amazing to me that you can actually defend what Wall Street and the bankers did to this country.
Here's fact for you, the FED just alllowed Bank of America to move 55 tillion dollars worth of troubled assets into FDIC insured accounts. Just think what will happen t all of your jobs if BOA goes belly up again.
Steve C--you make it sound like those of us who are NOT in the 1%, but don't agree with the "99%"ers who want a free ride, are also not upset at veterans losing their homes.
But that couldn't be farther from the truth.
That said, this nation has NEVER told its military that when they get home, whether 'whole' or not, we will pay all their costs forever, and they will never have to work again, or do anything to support themselves. We also don't absolve them from being RESPONSIBLE.
Most of us are all for support for veterans to help them get back on their feet after their service. We are all in favor of extended medical benefits for those who were wounded.
But this country was NOT founded on handing out free rides to anyone. They tried that at PLYMOUTH and it was such a failure the pilgrims almost died.
And those of us fortunate enough to have had parents who survived through the great depression, only to emerge stronger than ever, and who learned to NOT borrow money endlessly for "things", and who felt it was shameful to expect OTHERS to be 'responsible' for their success or failure, cannot empathize with students who expect a free ride, workers who expect to be HANDED good paying jobs the moment they graduate from HS or college, and all people who think that HDTV, Cable, game boys, cell phones, computers, etc. are NECESSITIES.
I don't see the vets and other un-employed people asking for handout. That is something Wall Street did when their ponzi scheme house of cards fell. They went on making their millions, while millions lost their jobs, life savings, and their homes. Funny how the VA and congress DON'T want to fund anything for the vets, and have done very little as far as bringing the banking indusry and Wall Street criminals to justice.
Meanwhile national guardsmen who answered the call have lost their credit ratinga and homes. Yes its nice that you have your job, I enjoy going to work too, and I worry about losing that job, but I am not about to turn my back on the ones truly suffering in this country and neither does the OWS. One thing I learned when I was in the service and the draft was still in place, is that we are all in it together.
MOmaid your commentsseem to show that you think its aok for the Wall Streeters and Bankers to be bailed out after they took the country down. Wait till the 55 trillion of bad debt comes due from Bank of America, see if you have a job after that.
Im a Vet, so has been every generation of males in my family back to bunker hill. As far as I know of, none of them are or have been homeless. I see no one here making any reference as to why people who did not or would not have ever qualify for a home were allowed to borrow so much. I can remember when my parents bought our first home, it required a 20% down payment. When I bought my first home it required a 20% down payment. I was amazed when I saw people moving out of down town Detroit into $250k homes with no down payment. We had people with homes and no money to furnish them. Sheets over the windows. When they left they stripped the places of anything worth money.
other people's money has no bearing on my life.
Really? And I'm the one with the simple worldview?
this country needs to get that 19% a job so they STFU.
Yeah, it is that easy. The unemployed should just go out and get a job. That is the most asinine comment I have read in a long time. You should shut up. Entire industries were devastated by Wall Street's idiotic practices and you think the little guy is at fault? Wow, you must watch fox news.
You must have a miserable life if you are preoccupied with what your neighbor has. I feel for you, really. It does explain your bitterness, though.
Jolly good for you JollyOld Soul, bully, and if you do not know about the homeless and suicide problems vets are having, then bravo for having your head so far up your ass that you are completely oblivious to everything that has been happening in this country since the supreme court made Bush president.
By the way, if you're a vet, why didn't you use the GI bill for your home loan? 0% is the down payment for vets.
You must have a miserable life if you are preoccupied with what your neighbor has. I feel for you, really. It does explain your bitterness, though.
That is not the point. I really could care less what my neighbors have. What I care about is a few rich guys and corporations controlling public policy and that does have an effect on your life.
Kinda fun to watch these wide-eyed, naive fools get suckered in by their supposed "soul-mates,' used, then thrown away like yesterday's dirty underwear. It happend to all the peaceniks and flower-children of the 1960s (make love, not war - nice sentiment, but essentially nonsense) and it'll happen to these bozos as well. They think Obama cares about them? Yeah, right. Obama cares about elections, and that all. Any idiot knows that.
I have no sympathy for the "gimme crowd". These "activists/communists" almost universally consist of people who define "social justice" as expecting everyone else to support them. They believe that they are entitled to anything and everything that they demand, and that they are entitled to help themselves to everything other people worked very hard to achieve and acquire. They make me sick.
You left out the best part - Go back to some of the earliest statements made by Occupy: "We had to apply to lots of jobs and they expected us to start at the bottom even though we have diplomas." Wow! Really? So no one else at that company had a diploma? What's that? Everyone above you had one, too? Oh, yours is NEWER, okay. In 12 months time, someone w/ an even newer diploma will be hired and promoted over you. What? You think that's unfair? Huh......
Let me put it this way: I found out about today's strike because the Occupiers went around and TAGGED several walls and buildings around my university campus with "May 1st General Strike".
Great way to earn yourselves some respect and credibility, that. Now the university gets to spend EVEN MORE of your tuition dollars on maintenance costs to clean it up. I certainly hope they can. Some rather historic buildings were defaced.
yes the flower children did protest and the war finally ended, after more than 58,000 American servicemen and more than 2 million Vietnamese lost their lives. Did that make the flower children's protest meaningless? According to you, it does. What a sad person you are for discounting honest efforts to address injustice.
Steve C--you do know that the flower children's motto (thanks Timothy Leary! :{ ) was turn on, tune in, and drop out? that we got out of Vietnam when it was obvious that it would never be won and was costing too much?
Most of the protesters against the Vietnam war were similar to the OWSers--they preferred being out in the sun, having fun, and poking the establishment in they eye. Most also had PARENTS that were paying for their education (you know, back in the days when parents felt like they NEEDED to save money for their kid's education rather than expecting someone ELSE to pay for it!) just like most of the OWS'ers want to have someone else pay for their education, but don't seem to understand that you cannot be HANDED an education--you have to EARN IT by working hard.
And ONE of the biggest reasons why a college degree does not guarantee anyone a job now is that a college degree no longer guarantees that the person who gets it KNOWS history, or how to write a cogent 30 page report, or even how to SPELL.
As Ann Landers once succinctly put it--(It could have been Dear Abby!)
"Just remember than half the doctors out there graduated in the LOWER half of their class."
MOmaid,
It wasn't just the flower children who protested. Yes, we finally quit when it became obvious that the south Vietnamese didn't have the heart to keep the freedom they begged us to protect. The fact of the matter is that our country has lost focus on what is important. We spend 6 times more on our defense than our closest competitor China, our military budget is equal to what the rest of the world spends on defense. For what, security? What security when you have open borders. We need to focus our attention and funds on our people, the wars are fought at the behest of large corporations, their ethics are non existent. We can continue to waste our people and our treasury shoring up the corporate hogs, or we can move forward, we are at that point now where we fall or rise, but the present position of both parties is the dead end and the fall of American greatness, we are there because both political parties are populated by politicians more interested in re-election than doing what is necessary and one thing that is not necessary is the foreign adventurism of the former administration.
The Democratic Party consists of Leftists of every stripe - Socialists, Communists, anarchists, atheists,
druggies, gays.......... you name it !!
The OWS crowd consists of the same mix and their calling card is human waste left on the streets.
The smelly donkey is really the best animal to represent the Democratic Party -
Democrats need to take a long shower using a lot of soap !!!
It may be that OWS poops on the street, but compare that to Republicans that poop on you!
The only people that have pooped on me over the last few years have been democrats....and one totally ignorant one in particular. Be careful democrat pets....your exalted idol loves to eat dog meat.
Wow! What a well thought out response...almost ranks up there with "liar, liar, pants on fire".
No No No. It is the extremists in either party that have caused all the rhetoric about women (repubs or teapubs) mostly. Vote for the person you think is the fairest and can do the best job. Ignore all the rest of the election year silliness.
How can Occupy not be owned by Democrats? They are a group of lazy, brats whining for handouts... and Democrats are a group of corrupt, power hungry, crooks looking for any way possible to buy the votes of the dimmest, most selfish amongst us. They are made for each other.
P.S.
May Day Eve Quickly Turns Ugly In San Francisco
"Various witness accounts say a group of between 50 and 100 people moved down
Valencia St. smashing windows, throwing paint balls, and even attacking an unsuspecting police station."
http://news.yahoo.com/may-day-eve-quickly-turns-ugly-san-francisco-091023433.html
Democrats and Occupy - two messes that America will clean up in November.
summer must be here, time for the "gimmie" crowd to camp out again.
Take a shower, get a job and go to work. Register to vote, Oboma's gonna need all the help he can get and you fit his demographics!
All that Obama requires of his subjects is that they kneel, reach for the "free" handouts, and ignore the future consequences for their freebies today.
"'Battle for the soul of Occupy': Activists fear being 'pulled to the right,' becoming Democratic 'pet'"
Uh, yeah, sorry, but I think that ship sailed a loooong time ago.
We the People of this Country bailed out Wall Street and Wall Street bailed out on We the People. So yes Occupy Wall Street demonstrators will support President Obama on this one.
nancy
That is a bit of a leap. As soon as he took office Obama packed his administration with Wall Street insiders, some of whom had a direct roll in causing the current depression. We are 4 years into the depression his "Justice" Department hasn't held anyone responsible. Even Regan's Justice Department prosecuted people for the much smaller savings and loan scandal.
Obama is Mr populist now as he was during the 2008 election but that disappeared once he took office. I have a feeling that it will disappear again once he is re-elected.
I am not saying Romney is any better. Our political system is completely broken. We really have limited choice. We are only allowed to choose between bad and worse.
Most of the banks have paid back the bail outs with interest. Just sayin'
The banks repaid the TARP loans most didn't want anyway. They are now doing much better because of the trillions in other money the Fed and our government gave them.
"Our political system is completely broken."
I agree Rev. Anytime you make it about spending money to get elected you get corruption. You get representatives that have been bought and paid for.
All elections should be publicly funded(no more than 1mil). All commercials will be free of charge from all networks. All commercials will be information about the candidates views and what they will do to better this country. NO attack ads! Campaign travel will be provided by airlines and buslines free of charge. This is the kind of campaign finance reform we need.
These people look like they can easily be bought. A few free concert tickets and McDonalds gift certificates should do it.
pulled to the RIGHT and becoming democratic pets? ......hahahahahaha........
I know, right? They define themselves to the left of DEMOCRATS?!? So they outright admit to being full blown communists? And they expect support from the rest of us? How about we'll see you in HELL, you scum "activists"!!!
These occutard idiots have been used by the dems from the beginning and are to stupid to see it. What a joke this whole thing has been. Bwahahahahaahahahahahaa
OWS is a wing of the Obama democrat party.
Pets get treated better. Better descriptions would be lemmings, stooges or fodder. And it's too bad because the original Occupy movement actually had a point about young people not being able to get jobs. But that message got lost in the takeover by professional political operatives and now it's just a wall of unintelligible sound.
Recovering Democrat--to an EXTENT the youth had a point about not being able to find jobs. BUT, and this is a huge but, most colleges (if you dig deep enough in their curriculum) now have to offer REMEDIAL ENGLISH classes because of the kids who 'graduate' HS with decent enough grades to 'get into' college. My own son, when in HS (early 2000's) asked a 45 year old man if he fought in WWII. HS Textbooks have 're-written' history to be politically correct. Kids 'finish the year' without finishing the TEXTBOOK. And we wonder why employers don't believe a college education is necessarily a high recommendation?
And when kids today are expecting to graduate COLLEGE without having done anything to earn that education, what kind of work ethic does ANYONE think they have?
When I was in HS, nearly EVERYONE worked part time--even if it was just babysitting, or mowing lawns. Now people hire illegals to do those jobs, and college students don't seem to want to 'give up the fun' to work part time either. Would YOU hire someone like that?
The old adage that "you can't get hired without experience, and you can't get experience without a job" still holds true--BUT, when I was a college student, you could at least point to having held down a part time job while still in school doing work that actually gave you potential job skills.
This is what happens when you have no objective.
They certainly DO have an objective. They want to be given anything and everything they ask for. They want "free" education, "free" housing, "free" healthcare, you name it, they're entitled to it.
kinda makes you think that if Stalin was running this year, he'd get a lot of votes.
May 1 walkout
Occupy Wall Street All Day All Week!
Occupy Wall Street All Day All Week!
knock yourselves out. The rest of the 99% are going to do what we generally have done - ignore your silly protests. They solved nothing, you bring nothing to the table, and your overall strategy is vague, to put it mildly. Can't take you seriously at this point.
But alan, who will pay your welfare if they do not work?
oh that's an easy one, NC. Why, those evil rich 1%ers will pay it! They will, once they realize just how selfish and greedy they are being, that it's much better if they just give their money to other people who don't deserve it but want it anyways! Why, it's un-American to do otherwise!
eric,
what is un-American IS the thought that working hard and making money is bad.
socialism does not work, it equals oppression of the poor, that is a fact. it is these uneducated OWSers that would be censored and persecuted in the society they wish to bring. no more free speech, no more right to protest. they don't see their rights now make them all criminals in the future they want.
S. ulmer - "what is un-American IS the thought that working hard and making money is bad."
True, but when you wreck the country so badly that the majority become desperate and unemployed they can be more easily controlled with rhetoric and promises and bought with handouts. By destroying the economy Democrats created the most loyal sheep they could hope for.
pjam, Do you think it is ironic that Occupy's selection of Mayday is the same day of communist celebrations over the world?
The democrats destroyed the economy? Really? give me an for instance. I'll give you a couple, Medicare Part D (unfunded) and two wars (un funded) and the first administration and congress to not only not fund the two wars, but to cut taxes at the same time. Oh excuse me, those were not democrats, those were republicans, DUH!!
Steve--sorry, but the dems went right along with Shrub on not funding the wars. And Obama has now been in office for 3 1/2 years, and I haven't seen him throwing the weight of the WH behind any legislation to FUND the military in those two wars, either.
Instead, he has continued those two unfunded wars, and will pull us out on the SAME timetable as Bush estimated.
Obama said 6 months in that the economy was from then on HIS. Funny how now he's right back to blaming Bush.
And BTW--I VOTED for Obama.
To think only one party ruined the economy is naive. The Dems with their uncontrolled spending, and the ridiculous tax cuts for the rich, which if you looked it up created less jobs during Bush years compared to the Clinton years and still aren't creating any. Tax break or not if a company wants to expand it will. Both parties better wake up and deal with our problems before it's to late.
MOmaid, Obama has no other issue to run on. Look at our bleeding economy.
steve-c,
refusing the keystone pipeline, filling the pockets of fannie &freddie exec's, cutting jobs, giving money to "green" companies, borrowing from china and giving it back to them in the form of "aid", and much much more.
his own wife has a bigger budget than the last 6 first ladies combined.
the democratic party has refused to even submit a buget durring the obamanations reign.
yes the democrats ARE intent on ruining this country.
The one thing I know is that we were on course to pay off the deficit by 2010 when Bush was handed the presidency by a republican Supreme Court ruling on a contested election result from a state controlled by his brother and the republcian party. I know, if Gore had taken the Presidency everything would be worse because he's a democrat, right!!!, keep on smoking whatever it is you're smoking. If the republicans regain control of the government it will only get worse. We need only look at how well they governed from 2001 to 2007.
"As Occupy protesters hit the streets for a nationwide general strike on Tuesday, some in the movement fear the emergence of two new activist outfits made up of "old left" advocacy groups and unions is an attempt to turn them into a "pet" for the Democratic Party and President Obama’s reelection effort."
watching the news the 20 or 30 OWSers that have turned out in NYC really do look like their puppets or "pet" lap dogs. this "massive" protest (lol) is proof they are all idjits. socialism at it's finest, in the land of the free.
and how many have ipods, ipads and apple products hard wired to the cause, remember apple is the largest corp that pays the least taxes (less than 10%) while the 1%ers being targeted pay an average 23%.
foolish, foolish sheep.
Wish someone would follow the money trail to see how they are funded and taken cared of. It would be interesting to see. Am sure there would be a lot of backtracking and denying.
Some people have been following the money. Believe it or not, many of those funding the Occupy Movement are amongst the "1%." These include Venture Capitalists. A few of the big names funding the movement are:
Twitter co-founder Jack Dorsey
Union Square Ventures (Foursquare, Zynga)
Betaworks (bitly, Tumblr)
Scott Heiferman, CEO of Meetup
Zach Klein, Vimeo cofounder
Caterina Fake, Flickr cofounder
Joshua Stylman, wide ranging angel investor including in Yipit
Peter Hershberg, president of SocialFlow
Chris Sacca, Twitter investor, former Google employee
Joi Ito, director of MIT Media Lab
Joshua Schachter, Delicious creator
Jared Kushner, New York Observer owner, real estate empire scion
Matt Haughey, builder of Metafilter
Chris Kaskie, president of Pitchfork Media
Chris Dixon, cofounder of Hunch
Dan Rosensweig, CEO of Chegg.com
Craig Shapiro, founder of Collaborative Fund
Thrive Capital, a Kushner family VC fund
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/19/kickstarter-occupy-wall-street/
Other people who are funding and/or have funded the movement as as follows:
Ben Cohen (co-founder, Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream; member of the "1%")
Jerry Greenfield (co-founder, Ben & Jerry's Ice Cream; member of the "1%")
Danny Goldberg
Norman Lear
Terri Gardner (former president and chief executive of Soft Sheen hair products)
Dal Lamagna (founder of the company Tweezerman)
Richard Foos (entertainment-industry executive)
Judy Wicks (founder of the White Dog Café in Philadelphia)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203833004577249811049566178.html
There is evidence that major players in Obama's disgraced and now defunct ACORN also have been involved in fundraising by deception in behalf of the Occupy Movement. Some donors have complained that those donating to the latter group of fundraisers were told that their donated money was to go to education, and so forth. Instead, it went directly to the Occupy Movement.
But, even if we discard the claims about former members of ACORN and their practices, the above persons are and have been among the heaviest supporters of Democrats and liberal agendas over the years.
The movement has even seen support in the form of Michael Moore, and I think most of us know where his political motivations lie. And, he also is part of the so-called 1%.
Democrats have no qualms with using class warfare to their advantage. They often use it to inspire sympathy for their agendas. Comments and stances in the nature of class warfare of both Carter and Obama can be more favorably compared than contrasted, from what I have seen and heard over the last several years and decades.
Let the backtracking and denials begin! :)
Who even cares? The OWS folks are just a waste of time and space. They accomplished nothing but to interfere with working people.
And what good has the Tea Party done? Interfere by pushing to take away the rights of working people. Speak for yourself
Uhhh....please enlighten us occutard. Just what "rights" have a TRUE grassroots movement taken from you? My guess is none. Prove me wrong.
With the many,many attempts to restrict voting rights in the states with Tea Party elected Governors. I'd say that was a start. With women's right to choose in those same states under fire every minute of every day. I would say that's another step down the road. With Michigan Gov. Snyder's emergency manager rules overturning legal and verifiable election results. I would say that that signals the beginning of the end for "one man one vote." That's just a little further down the path, is it not?
How are they restricting voting rights? By requiring to PROVE YOU ARE LEGAL TO VOTE??? Only an idiot that WANTS illegal voting to go on doesn't want voter ID. I have seen no attempt to restrict voting rights anywhere,only attempts to make sure LEGAL VOTERS are voting. If you have a problem with that I suggest you get a movement going to change the constitution. Good luck with that.
I agree with your point about a womans right to choose. If they want to choose to kill a baby they have to live with that not me. That, however has nothing to do with the tea party. That issue has been a political hotbed since Roe V Wade.
Michigan has elections too. If people don't like it they can vote him out. However, when looking at the results of some of these towns decisions it seems like they need some adults around to ride herd over the little kid like decisions that have adversely affected the state of Michigan. Snyders first mission is the fiscal state of affairs of Michigan and Lord knows it needs a lot of help.