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Subscribe to RSSOccupy Wall Street protesters are planning coast-to-coast demonstrations Tuesday in honor of "May Day" or International Workers' Day. The protesters are calling for a general strike and are encouraging workers to stay home. The Morning Joe panel discusses.
As Occupy protesters hit the streets for a nationwide general strike on Tuesday, some in the movement fear the emergence of two new activist outfits made up of "old left" advocacy groups and unions is an attempt to turn them into a "pet" for the Democratic Party and President Obama’s reelection effort.
The new groups, 99% Power and 99% Spring, include backers such as MoveOn.org, Rebuild The Dream, AFL-CIO, United Auto Workers, CODEPINK: Women for Peace, and The Ruckus Society. The groups bring money with them – something in short supply for Occupy – but their efforts are being eyed warily by those who helped launch the Occupy movement.
Adbusters, the Canadian magazine that made the initial call for people to Occupy Wall Street on Sept. 17 of last year, has been running a blog series on their website, "Battle for the Soul of Occupy," in the last few weeks. In it, the publication has decried attempts to "neutralize our insurgency with an insidious campaign of donor money and co-optation."
"This counter-strategy worked to kill off the Tea Party’s outrage and turn it into a puppet of the Republican Party. Will the same happen with Occupy Wall Street? Will our insurgency turn into the Democrats’ Tea Party pet?" Adbusters wrote in an April 12 post. "Will you allow Occupy to become a project of the old left, the same cabal of old world thinkers who have blunted the possibility of revolution for decades? Will you allow MoveOn, The Nation and Ben & Jerry to put the brakes on our Spring Offensive and turn our struggle into a ‘99% Spring’ reelection campaign for President Obama?"
Skepticism of electoral politics runs deep in the Occupy movement and it could affect the ability of Democrats to mobilize activists during the 2012 campaign, despite attempts to appropriate the "99 percent" rhetoric. But Todd Gitlin, a former leader of the 1960s group, Students for a Democratic Society, who has just published a book on Occupy, believes the concerns of some in the movement are "outlandish."
Protesters hit the streets for May Day rallies
"It was inevitable that there would arise political actors that want those same reforms, although they don’t necessarily share the real-time spirit of the movement. These are the membership organizations, like the unions and MoveOn … who did turn out for the big marches in October and November, and who are numerically very large but were always from the beginning being met with suspicion on the part of the Occupy movement," said Gitlin, a professor of sociology and journalism at Columbia University.
"This represents actually a misunderstanding on the part of some of the Occupy people who feel weak, so they’re afraid of co-optation because they feel that the co-opters have the power to puncture their balloon," he added.
Still, the new groups don’t sit well with Charles M. Young, a writer at thiscantbehappening.net and a 1960s-era activist. He attended one of the mid-April training sessions held by The 99% Spring on Manhattan’s Upper West Side, which he said was led by representatives of the Democratic Party and Wall Street lawyers, and where Obama buttons were offered for sale.
Up host Chris Hayes leads the conversation on civil disobedience in light of the Occupy Wall Street movement, and the groups that are emerging to teach protesters non-violent demonstration tactics.
Young, 61, feared that Occupy could be "pulled to the right" by partnering up with them and felt the effort was part of a bid to keep the "Kucinich Democrats" from leaving.
"It looks very much like what they call an AstroTurf movement, you know, something from the top down," he said, noting he left the meeting "disillusioned." "I don’t remember anybody saying that there was a need for the 99% Spring before it came out."
"It does seem to be mostly the Democratic Party trying to keep the left in line for Obama and keeping things obedient, and that’s just not enough given the issues involved," he added.
In an email statement, Justin Ruben, MoveOn's executive director, said his group has electoral goals, but that his organization has "zero interest in trying to alter [Occupy] in any way."
"Growing economic inequality and the increasing influence of 1 percent cash in our political system are huge problems, and problems that MoveOn members care deeply about. Our response includes working to engage more activists in the fight for fairness for the 99 percent and to introduce activists to powerful tactics like non-violent direct action. That's what the 99% Spring is about," he said.
"Regarding elections, yes, there's no question that MoveOn sees elections as profoundly important, and we will be engaged in elections this year -- just as we've engaged in elections since our inception in 1998. But of course we work with lots of allies that don't engage in elections, and we respect that choice," he added.
Dorian Warren, an assistant professor of political science at Columbia University, said schisms on the left today are similar to those during the civil rights movements. There were "intense fights between the old guard" groups like the NAACP and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, and the youth-led Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, he said. In hindsight, the youth-led group played an important role, serving as "the left flank of the movement," he said. "That’s sort of the role Occupy is playing."
But Occupy should be skeptical and challenge the progressive establishment, he said. "Until September, the strategies of these groups, whether it was ‘inside the Beltway’ game or just traditional interest group politics, that was not working, and so the more radical tactics that Occupy innovated is what shifted the political terrain and they should stay focused on doing that."
The 99% Spring and 99% Power have given a nod to Occupy for leading the way, though they also said they had been drafting plans to engage in more public protest and focus on corporate accountability before Occupy existed. They had targeted the fall for their campaign, but then Occupy took off, which in turn helped them convince others of the viability of their own strategy, said George Goehl, executive director of National People’s Action.
Occupy reinvented: '99 percent' protesters target General Electric
"It opened up some space for some of the things that we’ve been working on for a long time, and it was really just kind of liberating … in terms of what was possible and also in terms of kind of confirming what we thought," he said.
Goehl said members of Occupy have joined his group’s trainings – or led them – and some consider themselves as part of 99% Power. He said when he was in Des Moines last week at a protest, three of the 12 people arrested were from Occupy.
"I think what we’re seeing is … a growing number of threads that do speak to the need to be fearless truth tellers around what’s truly going on in this country to both engage in nonviolent direct action and to challenge the dominance of the corporate sector both, you know, in our economy and in our politics," he said. "And I think that, you know, Occupy is a thread of that, 99% Spring is a thread of that, 99% Power … it’s all part of the same thing."
He said that the notion that any electoral objectives were part of their strategy was "completely false."
"The organizations that actually started this idea don’t really run big electoral programs. It’s not been that kind of the focus in terms of strategies and tactics," he added.
In the end, Warren, the politics professor, said he thought there could be "too much focus on who’s co-opting Occupy versus Occupy just doing its work."
Success during big events like Tuesday’s May Day actions will actually depend on how many people that the unions, MoveOn and other groups turn out, Warren said. "In that sense, Occupy’s fate is linked to these other groups and these others groups’ fates are linked to Occupy."
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Nick,
For a many years I have been one of those in the middle who cannot stand the extreme wings that seem to dominate both major parties. It is time for the pendulum of change to stop swinging to the extremes and settle in the middle for rational change.............
It is time for rational moderate thinking people to take control of American politics and try to formulate a reasonable system that works for all sectors of America's populous........For America to survive, this us against them thing must cease, and once again, it must be an all for one, and one for all society.
The problem is nothing ever gets changed that way. It always stays the same!
There is no such thing as "an all for one, one for all society", pure fiction from Fantasy Island. Our Constitution was structured with individual liberties as one of the core concepts. We are not some experiment in communal living. Everyone has the right to persue their dream, whatever that may be, including being the richest person on the block. Most will support having a safety net in place to help protect the most needy in our society. Beyond that, you are responsible for charting your own course, and whether you succeed or fail is up to you, not the rest of us.
Extreme times bring extremists out of the wood work. Always has and always will unfortunately. Would be nice to see things settle out in the middle but doubt that will ever be. In my 65 years it has never been so I am not gonna get excited about it.
Peter,....You speak in favor of isolationism, everybody for themselves, such a pity. Such a society has never fared well amongst world powers. I certainly hope none of our troops in Afghanistan share your views.
Apparently you have never heard of the 'United' states, a Nation 'United', indivsable, or equal justice and liberty for all........I am well versed on the US Constitution and Constitutional law if you care to debate. You cannot just pick out the excerpts that suit you personally, you have to take the intent of the context as a whole
@Ellis - I'll be your huckleberry. Let's talk about your interpretation of the Constitution. Let's talk about Peter and his individualism as opposed to your interpretation that it means isolationism. Let's talk about your concept of equal liberty and justice for all.
Go...
Well said Peter!
@Ellis
Peter never said anything about isolationism, you did.
Individual and states rights is the hallmark of the Constitution. The central (federal)government was primarily to provide for a common defense, a single entity for enacting treaties and to make sure the sovereign states played nice with each other. That is Virginia couldn't ban goods from Georgia.
The country was always stronger when were individualist with loyalty to America and the flag. Now we have the Feds who have changed that to some degree and are trying to be Mother and Father to everyone. That is the ruination of America.
And we can thank Obama for keeping it that way! He is sooo far Left, he's almost fallen off the edge! I have a VERY Liberal freind like him (I am more middle of the road) and Obama can do no wrong, no matter what in his eyes! You can give him facts that this way of thinking is destroying America, but they are so set in their ways, anything else, even though it's proven true, is propaganda! And he says he has an open mind! YEAH! SURE!
I'm sure the plutocracy will treat you much better.
Carrie, if Obama is so far left then you must be a TPer that thinks Reagan is a RINO. Just answer one question, if Obama is about to fall off the edge then why is the left giving him so much grief about being to much to the right?
All this time and the OCCUPY movement is still irrelevant. There's no clear message, it comes off as envy and blame for not making one's own life work out financially. To occupy suggests someone has given up trying to build and that is an indulgence; to give up, sit on your azz and then blame someone else for you having given up.
HOGLOVER-do you ride or just eat PIGS -This is a comment forum not a classroom for you to try and TEACH anyone anything-You HOGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGLOVERRRRRRRRRRRR-can EAT ME ass breath
You have azz breath?
This is what happens when your generation doesn't have it's own Woodstock.
The Republicans have a pet party. Why shouldn't the democrats have one too? We can take their money and ignore them, just like the Republicans do with the teaparty.
You keep believing that. It will make it so much easier in November.
Ok, I have read what everyone on here has had to say. Im not as smart as all of you, seeing as how im uneducated, so the chances of this being thrown back in my face is highly probable. I just wanted to throw in a little info on people who are on medicaid. First of all, you do not get to shoot up drugs all day and make babies. You have no job, you take classes on how to apply and use what you got to get hired, how to utilize your abilities and skills. It is 5 days a week, 8.5 hours a day until you get hired. At least that was what I had to do in my state.
To be honest, its disheartening to hear people group everyone on state assistance as lazy drug addicts. I work a full time job, I am a single parent with 4 kids. I do NOT have time for drugs. The main reason I applied for medicaid was due to my 2 boys and their health issues. without their meds, they can die. Im sorry for you guys who hate paying taxes and money into medicaid. I pay into it too. But take heart that you are keeping two little boys alive. Their meds are well over a thousand a month, and a foundation is paying additional money for other "medical necessities." (Just for some backround, my exhusband is the father of all 4 children, and we were financially stable until he decided he wanted out of the responsibilities of being a dad.) So its down to a single income now.
I have always worked, full time, and I used to have the same views as the majority of people when it came to state aid. But when you get thrusted into the system and have to swallow your pride for the survival of your children, your views greatly change. I have to listen to people speak so damn negatively ab out the medicaid system, when they know nothing. Its down to the whole "walk a mile in her shoes" story. But my oldest son will be 12 soon, and he is more aware and observant than people realize, and he hears the comments, too. So he decided since he is medically flawed, maybe he shouldnt be here in the first place. That people like him are a hinderance on society, and he got ALL of that from people who have to voice their opinions not caring who overhears. A favor people? Watch what you say in public, because you never know the full story, and what you say can hurt people. Now, Im not trying to insult anybody, but before its decided that medicaid is used to support lazy, sex crazed drug addicts, maybe you should look into it a bit more. Now its back to cooking, cleaning, homework, baths and putting kids to bed so I can go work my overnight shift and do it all over again tomorrow. Oh, and thank you to all of you who dont judge me for doing what was right for my children. They dont get to chose their parents, but they love me regardless of my social status. And they are everything to me.
Who the hell was your divorce attorney, Barney Fife? You get no child support? Your husband, who you say provided a secure financial platform to raise four kids, left and does not even have to provide medical insurance?
Sorry, but your story sounds like BS.
canon: how many people did that dummy Florida Gov. find when he drug tested ppl on welfare. Was the percentage higher of lower than the people not on welfare? How much money did Florida waste trying to solve a problem that didn't exist.
You've never heard of men that don't pay their child support?
Kick the poor, and the children. Hannity says rice and beans don't cost much.
You must be from another planet or is this idyllic world only in your mind. Bubble people like you are very strange to we humans.
You are crazy. I,too, was married 20 years had 2 kids under 10 and my husband up and left. I went to work the day he left, lost my house and equity, lost my car. I did not take state or fed money but my husband was a federal contractor. I visited IRS all the time trying to get court ordered child support. I talked to the state all the time. I talked to the attorney general all the time. I got nothing, ever! Don't call this womans story fishy. I know what she has been through. I had to apply for medical through the state if I wanted to live to raise my kids. Almost died 2 times. You idiot ass's have no damn idea of what you are talking about when it comes to women trying to get child support! I fought with my own brother over this when he claimed, it is court ordered so he has to pay. Yah, right! I got his pension of $200 a month AFTER he died and my kids were raised. I needed the money THEN, not now. If she has children that needed healthcare, then she had no choice but to get help. God, I hate you people that see everything black and white and only the way you believe it should be. Grow the hell up
Hah, They must think ordinary people are so stupid... probably right...
This story pretends it's about bringing up OWS's desire to distance themselves fro the DNC... when it's pretty obvious this story was a plant, fed to the left leaning media, ahead of the arrest of those 5 OWS nutjobs in Cleaveland, to try and distance Obama, Pelosi, and Co. from this "movement", as it quickly degenerates into an embarassment...
Next, the predictable Riots in Seattle, and who know what else is coming.... some Lib's are starting to regret hitching their horses to this crazy wagon.
Actually it was a right wing anarchist group who conspired with the police to blame it on OWS knowing that if they could just vilify the group it would give the police the PR to pepper spray everyone and throw them in jail without any repercussions or reason to do so. Just like the liberals set up the crazy bastards in Michigan who wanted to kill the police. LOL
I suppose you think 911 was an inside job like the dumbazz representative(R) in Texas who wrote a book on it. He explained that the twin towers somehow fell faster because of shaped charges from within the building and used the law of gravity as proof. I'm not kidding you. I received one in the mail after I wrote an opinion to the paper. Only dummies believe this kind of crap.
Now the OWS is controlled by Dems and Obama. Ignorant Pubs always fall for this guilt by association nonsense.
These people, ones who follow the Right wing propaganda machine, will believe anything the azzhats like Beck spew out of their mouths. Not the least of which was that "OWS wants to kill you. They are going to sneak into your homes and kill you". Saw it myself on Fox news.
You aren't one of those azzhats are you bart,NYC?
Hasn't anyone told them that they are the current ASSES for the Democraps....Nobama and Botox Betty, aka Pelosi threw their support behind them, so guess what boys and girls....you are their bi$#hes.....hope you enjoy it.
I don’t think our “Occupy”er friends need to fret…they’re so kooky that I doubt anybody wants them…
Cool and how shocking!! Big money democrats are taking over the Occupy movement so it looks like the democrats are trying to defend them (as long as they vote for Obama). Then they want to sell them Obama buttons. What cheap asses. They would not even buy them the buttons.
Talk about Republican!! I guess it is like the democrats to want someone else to pay for their stuff. Just like everything else.
The "occupy" movement has been a Democrat cat's paw from the beginning. Now mainstream Democrats are working to neutralize any "occupy" participants who aren't actively involved in empowering the party and its leader.
Once the Occupy Wall Street movement started accepting money from hard-Left organizations with known links to people like the notorious financier George Soros, that movement at once lost a LOT of credibility and fast. And it didn't help that the Occupy encampments last fall left a mess and were the bases where anarchists caused havoc in several cities, with Oakland, CA being a notorious example.
Another problem with the Occupy movement is their "manifesto" is essentially something you see from the old-time Communist movements. Doesn't the world realize that Stalin and Mao may have killed over 100 MILLION people during their unfettered reigns in the Soviet Union and China in the last century?
@Ray...but that was a good thing...wasn't it?
Boy, is Miranda Leitsinger out of the loop. The Tea Party is still going after big spending Republicans to this day, as Orrin Hatch will angrily tell you, while Occupy has never been anything but a Re-Elect Obama movement, when it was anything at all. With the Tea Party, you know exactly what they stand for: Get the Budget Under Control Before We Go Bankrupt. Occupy stands for violence and sitting around until somebody gives them something for nothing. Occupy is everything that Leitsinger and MSNBC wished the Tea Party would be, in vain.
El Kabong - one of my favorite cartoons...
The Tea Party supports all the people who sent our jobs to China, gave billions in tax cuts to mega corportaions and Goldman Sachs bank.
@Lillipop
Facts please, not opinions.
The TP'rs are working for the plutocracy whether they realize it or not.
Facts:
I hope this will help you see it is not the lazy welfare ppl who are draining this country, it is the wealthy who purchase the access and write the legislation our politicians pass. The TP'rs don't understand that they are being used to expand the policies for the wealthy and big corporations.
It is not the majority in the movement worried, only a handful of idiots, including Canadians, and we don't care what Canadians think about American politics, take care of your self.
And you can't take a movement to the right and end up supporting the left. That shows just how stupid the statement is.
umm...okay, whatever you say...
Poor, poor Donkeys! Not only do they eat their pets, they can't control the ones they want to victimize. I have seen Democrats call Republicans panders on MSNBC, but this is ridiculous. I guess if buying votes with giveaway programs and voting the graveyards don't work, you shift to others areas to try to buy the next election.
Well, to incorrectly quote SNL, "Buh-bye, Barry, buh-bye."
What billionaire tax cheat paid all these brown shirts to attack the occupiers? All of the derogatory comments mean only one thing...someone (repubs) are getting scared of something.
Wow...???
Lillipop is off his/her medicine I think.
Well that certainly explains who smashed those windows that were shown in the other article.
Sarah, you seem to have a full grasp of current conditions and I believe sincere in your opinions that "the rich" lead government to take advantage of the poor. But FDR started the ball rolling away from the Constitutional republic when he decided the government need more of our money to make a new deal that favored government over the governed. Did you know....
"In 1932, New Deal Democrat Franklin Delano Roosevelt ran largely on the record of his opponent, the inestimable Herbert Hoover.
Most people don't know that much about Hoover, and what they do know isn't good. But in light of the current economic and political climate, it is certainly interesting.
See what Mark Twain's observation that 'history doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes' says to you as we move along. I'm not going to draw any parallels myself -- I need a reality check.
I want to read your interpretations in the comments forum and find out if you see the historical parallels that I see.
Herbert Hoover was a registered Republican who turned progressive when he supported Teddy Roosevelt's 1912 run for the White House under the "Bull Moose" Progressive Party.
In the 1920's Hoover served as Secretary of Commerce in the Harding administration. His progressive Big Government approach during that time earned him the nickname, "Secretary of Commerce -- and Under Secretary of Everything Else."
As Commerce Secretary, Hoover was the founder of the "Own Your Own Home" campaign. It was a collaboration of bankers and industry that gave birth to the long-term home mortgage industry.
Hoover came to office in January, 1929 on the promise that America was "nearer to the final triumph over poverty than ever before in the history of any land."
Ten months into his presidency, the Stock Market crashed, bringing Wall Street to its knees and throwing the nation into panic. Banks began to fail, factories closed, loan money dried up and with it new investment.
In 1931 Hoover organized a 'stimulus plan' partnering with a consortium of banks, creating the National Credit Corporation. The NCC's mission was to bail out smaller banks by loaning them money.
The big banks who made up the NCC withheld the bail-out money and then quietly bought up the distressed smaller banks for pennies on the dollar.
In one great, last act of desperation, Hoover dissolved the private NCC and replaced it with an independent agency of the US government dubbed, the Reconstruction Finance Corporation.
The RFC was endowed with $2 billion in taxpayer money which it used to bailout failing banks, farm mortgage associations, savings and loans, etc.
The Revenue Act of 1932 was another last ditch, desperate measure that imposed sharp income tax increases across the board -- and guaranteed Hoover's defeat to FDR that November.
During the 1932 campaign, FDR attacked Hoover for "reckless and extravagant" spending, of thinking "that we ought to center control of everything in Washington as rapidly as possible," and of leading "the greatest spending administration in peacetime in all of history."
Of course, once he came to office, FDR enacted policies that made Hoover look like a fiscal conservative.
In his first 100 days in office, FDR's administration introduced the Beer-Wine Revenue Act, the Liquor Taxing Act, gasoline taxes, tobacco taxes, processed food taxes, deflecting criticism by blaming his predecessor.
He increased income taxes selectively on "the rich" (those making more than $9000 per year) and on farms producing crops in excess of quotas set by the government.
When selling his progressive "New Deal" which fundamentally transformed the US economy, he promised to pay for it all by selectively taxing "the rich".
So he raised the top income tax rate to 75%. The rich moved their money into investment accounts. So FDR imposed an "undistributed profits tax" that penalized companies for maintaining savings to use for invesment.
They moved it offshore.
IRS Commissioner Guy Helvering explained the tax this way at the time: “the Federal government shall not be unreasonably and inequitably deprived of necessary revenues.”
FDR demonized investors and employers as “economic royalists” and “privileged princes.” Opinion surveys of private sector employers suggested widespread fear of the federal government because of FDR’s policies.
In a November 1941 Fortune poll, 93 percent of employers said they expected their property rights to be undermined, and agreed that "there could be a dictatorship."
Had the war not intervened the following month, there very well could have been. It was the war that, in the final analysis, was the event that ultimately saved the economy from collapse and (possibly) the country from a national socialist dictatorship.
This isn't just a rhyme. To me, it's a whole darned poem. And I don't like where the next verse seems to be leading.
Or maybe it is just me?"
© www.omegaletter.com
Credit goes to Jack Kinsella for this comment. Fortunately, he likes the truth to be known...As opposed to those that PREFER A LIE!
Looks like Obama read Roosevelt's playbook. He was a very good Marxist.
Also, Democrat's haven't met a dollar they didn't want to spend
Looks to me like the Pubs are using their same playbook spreading fear and division among the working class.
Also Republicans's haven't met a dollar they didn't want to borrow.
Give me a Tax and Spend Dem over a Spend and Borrow Pub anyday.
OWS as Democratic "Pets". That's just too funny of a concept, they played right into their hands.
Occupy-ers on the move, it is Mayday, the international communist party day.
where are you Sarah.....eating lunch again?
Obama is scum.
Romney is filthy, crony, capitalist scum
Na Na NaNa Na
Occupiers are terrorist. Obama should install Martial law to control them. Enact your NEW emergency powers Mr. President.Cancel all elections seize all farms and farm equipment. It is all in your power now. You can arrest any one any time. Without any trial, NOW. Things are primed for a take over. You have all the guns. Opppps. No you don't Fast and Furious backfired. Go for it anyways.
I guess no one here is seeing how the gov't is now taxing homeownership
The GSEs are tightening up so tight that people have to goto FHA loans to buy a home,
As of April 9th 2012 the FHA PMI is 1.75% up front and 120 bips on the monthly payment
Example: 200K loan
PMI = $3,500 added to upfront closing costs with an additional $203 per month added to you payment
Thats HUGE money the gov't is getting and the gov't now controlls nearly all home finacing.
Liberals wanted big brother and gov't control this is the first step and next is healthcare in 2016
Randy,
You need to get your facts straight.
There are two kinds of PMI with FHA. One is a one time charge and it did go up. The other is a monthly PMI that did not change and remains at .5% for the entire year so your monthly PMI will be .005/12*200,000 about $83/mo. like it was before the change. The monthly PMI will continue until your equity reaches 20% and after that it disappears.
Also you are not required to purchase PMI from FHA but most do since the down payments is so low that FHA is probably the best your going to find.
You are twisting the facts to fit your case.
15 year FHA has the lower .5% monthly but 20 & 30 year are 1.15%-1.2% = 200/month
and yes the upfront 1% jumped to 1.75% as I stated.
I used the wrong term its not PMI either: FHA loans don't have private mortgage insurance. Instead, the loans carry a government guarantee and you pay a mortgage insurance premium for that guarantee.
Its a mandatory 5 years even if your debt/equity drops below 78% level The home Iam buying is at 87% and I asked about dropping the "PMI" on FHA and was told 5 year min. Also to quote an expert
Are those facts straight enough for ya??
Damn those who work and fail to divide the spoils among the sick,lame and lazy.
What about the rights of the worthless, pot smoking losers? Why do they have to work to get ahead?? Why won't someone buy them a house, a nice car and feed them like little baby birds every day?
What kind of a world do you want to live in anyway?
I happen to have a brother in law that smoked daily. He made over $120,000. a year as a longshoremen. He loaded ships for 40 years and was damn good at his job! So where the hell do you get worthless pot smokers! I don't smoke but do know of men of all ages, quite wealthy that smoke. And you whine about sharing. You sound like one selfcentered SOB. My brother in law had a $300,000 house, 2 cars and lived within his means, not showy at all. What the hell is wrong with you and your "judgement" of those you don't know. I am sure your friends smoke but won't tell you cause you're a redneck!
Your dope smoking brother in law must be a great joy to the family. My buddy has a alkie dad who goes to work every day and makes good money too.
He spends every evening drinking and every weekend is riding the mower pounding a few beers as he chugs around the yard. He considers himself environmentally sound because he recycles the beer cans. He is still a drunkard.
My judgement is sound,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I am not a pothead or a drunkard. Unlike your relatives, I can legally operate a vehicle, pass a drug test and hold a security clearance. If I had have an accident at work,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my drug test would not land me in prison or on the unemployment line,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,unlike your doper in-laws.
Hmm. the co-opting didn't take long. I guess that ship has sailed....
Yoshi
Hey occupiers , make sure that your dogs are pepper sprayed too , so that the POTUS won't eat them .
WARNING!... WARNING! OWS... do not eat Willards dog, its got vomit and sh## all over it.
Dogs of the world Unite visit dogsagainstromney.com