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Subscribe to RSSAs the Occupy Wall Street movement comes out of hibernation, a day of protests are planned around the nation. MSNBC's Richard Lui reports.
Updated at 03:38 A.M. ET: Protesters across the world marched through the streets Tuesday toting signs, playing instruments and wearing costumes to rally against austerity measures, call for more jobs and seek greater immigrants' rights on May Day.
Marches turned violent in Oakland and San Francisco, where a protester was throwing what appeared to be bricks and metal rods from the roof of a building into the crowd of demonstrators, reporters, and police - injuring at least one person, according to NBC Bay Area.
In Seattle, protesters dressed in black smashed windows and police pepper-sprayed some in the crowds.
In the United States, the protests are seen as the biggest test for the Occupy movement since many of its camps were shuttered late last year. Occupiers in more than 100 cities across the country were expected to protest on the day that traditionally celebrates workers’ rights.
In New York, demonstrators held a “free university,” and a “guitarmy” led a march.
“It was a long, energetic day with scores and scores of events and protests that is another step in building a movement for economic justice,” said Bill Dobbs of the Occupy Wall Street public relations team. “Occupy has re-blossomed in over 100 cities."
Occupy Cleveland cancels protest, distances itself from alleged bomb plot
Earlier Tuesday, about 1,000 Occupy protesters gathered in New York's Bryant Park, home to the main city library, with hundreds assembling the “guitarmy” and making posters before they left to march downtown. Chanting "Out of the stores, into the streets" and "Banks got bailed out; we got sold out," they filed down Manhattan’s iconic Fifth Avenue.
“There's too much fear for the general public to actually want to strike. They don’t want to lose their job. ... We haven’t reached that tipping point where people are more frightened for some place to live," said Robby McGeddon, 47, a tech worker carrying a maypole for May Day. "It will get to the tipping point but right now we're just practicing."
Miranda Leitsinger / msnbc.com
A protester representing the Musicians Union in New York's Union Square calls for eliminating "sour notes."
Of the protest, Daphne Carr, 33, co-organizer of the Occupy Music Working Group, said: “We're trying to find new, positive community-building ways to engage and protest and be a part of the burgeoning civil dialogue about what this country should be doing."
She also noted that music making "has been eroded from our public sphere so we're taking and re-claiming the right to play music publicly together in the streets, in the parks, without permits.”
The crowd swelled to a few thousand later in the day in Union Square as immigrant rights groups and unions representing teachers, transport workers, nurses, musicians as wells as others joined in a lively afternoon of art and music.
But the day was not without its detractors: at least one man heckled protesters and another yelled “Get a job!” as he elbowed his way through the crowd.
That didn’t get the protesters’ spirits down.
"This is like the resurgence of the Occupy Wall Street movement," said photographer Joel Simpson, 65, of Union, N.J., as the "guitarmy" sang "This land is your land" nearby. Though most of New York City didn't know the May Day protest was going on, he said, the movement "touches public consciousness in a very broad way and politicians have to at least pay lip service to it."
The New York protesters then streamed downtown, in an early evening march heading past the former Occupy Wall Street home, Zuccotti Park, to Bowling Green park near the southern tip of Manhattan. Occupy sent out a text message saying 30,000 people were in the streets, though it was not possible to determine how many were and police do not give crowd estimates. At one point, the protest appeared to stretch about 15 city blocks.
“We’re not so fragile that a day is going to make or break things but this was you know, a great … step,” Dobbs said, noting that the “organizing that goes on day-to-day and week-to-week is just as important in building a long-term sustainable movement.”
New York police reported 15 arrests by late afternoon for disorderly conduct and resisting arrest, the New York Daily News reported. Several demonstrators were caught carrying hammers but there was little vandalism, police said. Later Tuesday, Occupy said more arrests had been made.
Elsewhere:
Oakland police and May Day protesters face off. Watch video courtesy of KNTV.
San Francisco: Police armed with non-lethal pellet or bean bag guns aimed them at a protester who was throwing objects from the roof of the building, located at 888 Turk St, according to NBC Bay Area. The protester, dressed in black with a handkerchief covering his face, was throwing what appeared to be bricks and metal rods into the crowd of demonstrators, reporters, and police. Police spokesman Sgt. Michael Andraychak told NBC News the individual threw several items off the roof for several minutes, including two bricks and pipes. One brick struck a person and hit them in the head. The injured person refused treatment from medical personnel. NBC News reported that the rooftop protester was arrested and taken into custody.
Oakland, Calif.: Protesters playing cat-and-mouse with police pounded on windows of banks and other businesses, SFGate.com reported. After surrounding a downtown Bank of America branch, protesters chanted, "Oakland is the people's town; strike, occupy, shut it down." they also gathered at a Wells Fargo bank branch. Police later confronted demonstrators marching through downtown. Video by NBCBayArea.com showed at least one protester being dragged away by police. Protesters hurled items including a paint bomb at police and windows out of a police van, NBCBayArea.com reported. Police fired tear gas and flash-bang grenades before the skirmishing crowd dispersed. Police arrested at least four people.
Jim Seida / msnbc.com
Police tape off a Wells Fargo Bank in Seattle Tuesday after protesters broke the banks windows during a May Day march.
Seattle: Windows were broken and police arrested a handful of protesters as about 100 marched in downtown, NBC station KING reported. Many marchers were dressed in dark clothes, wearing face makeup and carrying sticks, live TV video showed. Police pepper-sprayed several protesters as problems developed. KING reported numerous tires slashed and large amounts of glass on the ground from vehicles and buildings, including the federal courthouse, smashed by protesters. Peaceful protesters remained at the downtown Westlake Plaza, where speeches and concerts continued, KING reported.
John Brecher / msnbc.com
Trumpeter Opaulo Mekkelsen marched with the Movitas Marching Band in Seattle. He said he was motivated by immigrants' rights.
"Part of me, I want to understand where they're coming from and then they pull something like this," said Sam, who would not give his last name, as he saw the back window of his car smashed out by protesters. Sam was on holiday from his home in British Columbia. "I'm from Canada," he said, "imagine the impression this gives me of the United States."
At an afternoon press conference, Mayor Mike McGinn said a group known as the “Black Block” did extensive damage to the Federal Courthouse, then moved on to block traffic. The mayor signed a proclamation authorizing police to seize from protesters any items that could be used as weapons, KING reported. Evening marches and protests were planned.
A group of May Day protesters dressed in black clothes and wearing face makeup smashed windows in downtown Seattle. Video courtesy KING.
Photoblog: May Day protests turn violent in Seattle
San Francisco: Golden Gate ferry workers picketed ferry terminals in the North Bay, but union organizers canceled a protest on the Golden Gate Bridge to give support to the ferry workers, the Oakland Tribune reported. However, scores of California Highway Patrol officers with helmets and batons lined the bridge and gathered around the toll plaza just in case. Bridge traffic was not disrupted.
Albany, N.Y.: State police arrested two men who set up a table without a permit in Lafayette Park, where Occupy protesters assembled Tuesday, the Times Union newspaper reported.
Jim Seida / msnbc.com
Sam (who declined to give his last name), left, speaks to local media after protesters in a May Day march in downtown Seattle smashed out the rear window of his car on 6th Avenue. "Part of me, I want to understand where they're coming from and then they pull something like this," he said. Sam was on holiday from his home in British Columbia, Canada. "I'm from Canada," he said, "Imagine the impression this gives me of the United States."
Chicago: Protesters and union supporters held rallies and marches with little disruption to the business district, the Chicago Tribune reported. Police Superintendent
Denver: Nearly 200 people marched downtown before turning onto the 16th Street pedestrian mall, blocking mall buses and traffic as they walked. The marchers also stopped in front of the Federal Reserve Bank. Police did not interfere, and only one person reportedly was arrested.
Los Angeles: Several demonstrators were taken into custody during a protest on Century Boulevard near the entrance to Los Angeles International Airport as union members, workers, immigrant-rights activists and others demonstrated for better-paying jobs to changes in immigration laws, NBCLosAngeles.com reported. However, about 2,000 police officers prepared to deploy early at a staging area in Elysian Park before a ralliers were to converge downtown Tuesday evening. Los Angeles County activated its Emergency Operations Center.
Dorian Warren, an assistant professor of political science at Columbia University, said he thought Tuesday would be the “biggest test since the fall of where Occupy is.”
Occupy activists fear becoming Democrats' 'pet'
“I think it’s still alive and thriving. I don’t think it’s going anywhere soon,” he said. “But I think after [Tuesday] we’ll know whether or not they were hibernating all winter and now they’ve re-emerged, or if they’ve died out.”
Occupy held protests during the spring on student debt and worker rights. They also have been working on a rollout of new versions of outreach web sites to facilitate coordination among different Occupy outfits. But a lot of effort has been focused on holding a May Day that will make a splash.
“Many activists have been working toward May Day for months and so they’ve decided to make it a test of strength,” said Todd Gitlin, a former leader of the 1960s-era group Students for a Democratic Society who has just published a book on Occupy. He added: “A lot of people in the larger society don’t think the movement still exists, so there’s some need to prove to them that it does exist.”
Occupy Wall Street has struggled during the last months without a camp, with some members starting their own groups while keeping a loose affiliation to the movement.
“It’s become fractured over time and I think people point a lot to that to the breakup of Zuccotti Park, and the natural disagreements that people had came more to the fore when people were separated and people formed their own circles upon which they continued. But it wasn’t the circle of great diversity that was right there at Zuccotti Park and people could grow from,” said William Johnsen, a 63-year-old veteran activist from Staten Island, N.Y. “It’s obviously a long-term process right now which will ultimately change into something else.”
Lefteris Pitarakis / AP
Workers and activists rally on May Day.
But Konrad Cukla, a 23-year-old graduate student who has been helping with Occupy May Day planning, said that since the park shut, occupiers have been engaging in key coalition building work, such as with immigrant rights groups in the city.
“All the labor unions have come together and for the first time are going to have a unified march with immigrant rights groups and Occupy,” he said as he walked with a musical band of occupiers -- the Rude Mechanical Orchestra -- dressed in green and black on Manhattan’s Fifth Avenue. “I think the movement is evolving, it's taking on more concrete allies and issues, engaging more with labor struggles -- also just expanding its horizons and bringing more people into the movement."
Rain City Superheroes: Midnight Jack, left, El Caballero, center, and Phoenix Jones relax Tuesday at a downtown Seattle Starbucks.
The Associated Press and msnbc.com's Jim Gold contributed to this report. Follow Jim Gold at msnbc.com on Facebook here.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
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yep they still exist alright and they are still irrelevant as ever.
Does anyone recognize what these morons are protesting for? It's free stuff. They demand all kinds of entitlements and handouts that can only exist in a Marxist/socialist society, until the money runs out, that is.
I love how the press just likes to say that May Day is Workers Rights Day. When anyone who knows history knows that May Day is the Day Communist's celebrate Communism. When these Communist's Freedoms are threatened it will once again be the Conservative Freedom Lovers who will come to their rescue and aide them in regaining their rights to protest against the very form of government that gave them those rights. The beauty of Liberty. Give Me Liberty or Death.
Well I'm really glad that the Fairy workers are protesting I think that fairies have been trodded on long enough............wait not "Fairy" but "Ferry" workers...........never mind.......continue with your postings.
A bunch of lazy entitled brats that don't want to work, they just want what somebody else has, protesting for workers rights. YAY for logic!!
Shouldn't these people either be working or looking for work to support themselves? They're nothing but a bunch of lazy no account deadbeats who believe the world "owes" them a living.
One day the land will be filled with unicorns, fairies, and rain bows.
Until then get a job and pay your bills like the real 99% does!
They "hit the streets" alright:
May Day Eve Quickly Turns Ugly In San Francisco
"Various witness accounts say a group of between 50 and 100 people moved down
Valencia St. smashing windows, throwing paint balls, and even attacking an unsuspecting police station."
http://news.yahoo.com/may-day-eve-quickly-turns-ugly-san-francisco-091023433.html
Democrats and Occupy - two messes that America will clean up in November.
If you have to make a special effort to prove you still exist, you really dont anymore. But hey, May Day is a major event on the commie calendar; although I dont remember any of the unwashed ones talking about workers' rights. Just about getting more freebees or getting bailed out for picking a useless degree.
They're just people to watch be silly. No coordination means no clear objectives.
We (the American people as Republicans, Democrats and independents) need to promote a constitutional amendment banning all non governmental financing of elections.
That should be something the overwhelming majority of us can agree on.
Protest in DC by all means, but this problem is happening at all levels of our government, and is literally being paid for by these huge multinational corporations.
This can't be done without the American public coming together, put our other differences aside. The effort can't be led by politicians because their political opponents would then be funded by the corporations.
OWS and the Tea party started partly as a reaction to the corruption the current corporate election system has wrought . The reason the Banks not only were bailed out, but the reason they needed to be bailed out was because the banks have been able to rewrite the rules they do business under.
The reason we can spend trillions on wars, but only millions on cancer research, or education, or infrastructure or anything that would benefit those of us here at home, is because military contractors and oil companies (who don't want to spend their own money on security in risky nations) spend taxpayer money on electing people who will keep certain conflicts going that stand to improve their bottom lines.
Conservatives, liberals, and moderates are all being screwed by this problem.
Last year I walked in a OWS here in Santa Rosa... I was impressed on how organized and peaceful it was... the protest I've seen since then have sickened me...
The 99% need to peacefully protest, not destroy property or obstruct people making a living... Until someone takes control of this movement and puts it back on the right track, I will no longer support them...
So there you go, the one percent wins again!
PJam, play devil's advocate. If Obama wins in November and Republican's end up losing the hose what will you do? Or are you one of those people that thinks, in a delusional haze, that there is no chance in hell of that happening?
Wet Willy,I think there protesting the monopoly of Corporations and the effect the have on our government to change the laws to suit them better then most of us..
Are those losers still around?.....ho hum, crank up the water cannons and charge up the taser guns.
I apologize to Churchill for drawing on his inspiration to describe my thoughts on this whole supposed movement.
"Never before in the field of human conflict has so little been owed to so many, by so few"
How about rubber bullets and tear gas. What a bunch of losers. Remember to wipe after your morning occupier!
Romney's dream come true. Thank you Occupy for arriving just in time to sink Obama's campaign. I'm sure Obama will go to San Francisco to promise them free whatever that he'll pay for with their tax money, if they actually ever pay taxes.
@Terry-CA: Yeah, I was semi-impressed with the SR protest too, they kept mostly out of everyones way. And I was extremely happy to note that they never organized long term on the SRJC campus like they said they were going to.
Dan,
The sitting President (or incumbant) has too much of an advantage if you don't allow corporations to finance election campaigns. As our current president has made painfully aware is the abuse of tax paid perks a sitting President can use while campaining and the extra media coverage they get. Look at his State of my campaign speech he made when the people were supposed to be getting updated on the state of the Union.
You have to just sit back in amazement as the right-wing minions attack Americans for peaceful demonstration against a manifestly rigged and corrupt political and economic system. It seems the peasants want their overlords to remain in power and don't want other peasants to speak-up. Welcome to the 21st century! Of the three people I know in the "occupy" movement two are full-time students and one is fully employed as a paramedic and none of them are asking for "free stuff" as the Teabag crowd is claiming.
Waiting for the reports from the Congressional Halls on "who" is supporting these "May Day" rallies.
I wonder how many of these folks are living in an "under water mortgage" home.
Yep, another "campaign" target for the Liberals to support.
*Too bad this row of comments was collapsed prior to viewing.*
I see the paid to post right wing stink tankers are out in force on this board. Damage control? You betcha! They're still trying to defend the insanity that unfettered greed has unleashed, not only in the USA, but onto the world. Dissent will continue to hammer away at corporate greed, regardless of whatever name it happens to adapt. The present OWS is about inequality and injustice under the yoke of laissez faire capitalism.
I can't speak for everyone, but I do believe that most of us are concerned about the decline in hope for a safe and secure future for ourselves and the generations to come. We realize that this planet is the only home we have, and we see more and more of it being destroyed by mindless efforts to profit from it's destruction. We see economic injustice all around this nation and the world. We see wars for profits, for military strategic purposes, and for the coming resource "shortages". We see some who have more than they can ever possibly use, while others are starving. We see our environment being challenged by our own foolish ways. And finally, we think there has to be a better way, and we're willing to go for it, even if it flys into the face of what is now acceptable, because we know that slavery was also once acceptable.
The pesent OWS is about nothing but some punks acting up.
Gotta love OWS .... protesting the big corporations while paying a royalty to Time Warner for every Guy Fawkes mask they purchase.
UNBELIEVABLE. You people have NO clue. Get a job? Look for a job? WTF do you think these people are protesting FOR? Not free stuff, but jobs, and jobs that pay what people deserve, not those wages being transferred to a bunch of lazy aristocrats, sitting around, with 20 weeks of vacation a year, and just collecting money off the backs of the REAL workers, like welfare queens, and then refuse to pay the taxes owed. The only real reason people in this country want universal healthcare, is because the rich fat cats refuse to pay properly, refuse to give people real health insurance, and feel the need to psychotically hoard the money that workers should be making.
I will retort...
Start your own business and see where you end up... go ahead and pay your employees allot more then your competition and see who is in business after that.
You cry a good game but do not walk the walk.... complaining does NOTHING. SOLUTIONS are what we need and the only solution is to run business's that can compete in a global economy.
Every American is going to have to work harder at everything everyday. Get use to that because everyone needs a better wage right?
I thought Obama failed at creating jobs... so which is it?
Cukester 1.13
I see you're quite adept at regurgitating the usual Marxist/socialist nonsensical rhetoric. When anyone actually thinks for a moment, they discover your statement is irrational and meaningless. I'd wager that you have no idea what you posted, except it sounds nice to you.
StephAce, if they want to protest for jobs they need to start with our representatives. These are the real Fat Cats. I just watched a program on Congressmen and the cars they lease. The expenditures for them to lease high end luxury cars is unreal. We need to get the people that want to tell us how to live and spend our money to wake up and realize THEY are careless with our money, paid to them with our tax dollars. Maybe, just maybe if we can get those users on the Hill to get our tax money under control, they can get taxes as a whole lowered for everyone, including the businesses these occupiers keep going after.
Another meaningless emotional buzz-phrase used by those who have no clue about how to manage their own financial future .. about those who do.
Yeahhh.. How dare you live up to your potential, crazy corporations??.. How dare you show a profit for the investors who took a chance with their hard-earned money and would like to see a return for that..? How dare you keep funding all the retirement funds and teacher's pensions with this silly notion about making measurable progress in reasonable time.. shameful!
those of you complaining about those occupiers not having jobs... do you realize many of them were laid off and trying to find work? i am one of them. i have been trying to find a job for around a month now without success. i am btw a full time college student looking for a part time job to pay off my school loans. my credit was hurt because i was laid off and couldn't pay my bills. also had my identity stolen in 2008 filed tons of reports with police and it is still on my credit report. every job i have applied to has run my credit which i think is a complete invasion of my privacy. how is a laid off worker that couldn't get unemployment and had my identity stolen supposed to get a job to GET BETTER CREDIT when i cant get a job! screw you guys! you complain about the unemployed and welfare but you seem to stick up for the 1% who gave 6.8 billion of their 10 billion dollar bailout to their corporate execs and STILL laid off workers. that money was from the taxpayers so that businesses could keep everyone employed still. You dirty rats stick up for these billionaires that screw everyone over that work hard for a living. How DARE YOU GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY! the constitution states WE THE PEOPLE not WE THE 1%! Some americans need to take the stick out and care for the common. we are experiencing the greatest gap between the rich and poor in american history. And i still have to live with people like you who stick up for the elite! The elite thinks your despicable too! unless you make billions a year but its people like you that let this happen in america because you sit in judgement of your fellow man and let the corporations stick whatever they want wherever they want. As for me, i will continue to be on food stamps since i can't find a job. don't complain about people like me because until discriminatory practices in hiring are still around, i will be without a job because my credit is only getting worse because i don't have a job to pay my bills. What am i supposed to do? Catch 22. these occupiers are protesting for higher pay and more benefits.. that seems so much to ask for when CEOs are making billions and the average worker is making little more then minimum in their companies,, ya soooo unfair! ludicrous! screw you guys, there is no getting through to you conservative a** douches.
Ummm...news flash for all you self-righteous hypocrites out there...the "protesters dressed in black" have zero connection to the Occupy movement! They are useless Anarchists, who destroy simply for the sake of destroying, the same ones that wanted to blow up that bridge in Cleveland. They're the same people who smashed windows and destroyed things over 12 years ago at the WTO protests in Seattle. The Occupy people have the same use for them as you and I do...nothing. If they all disappeared from the face of the Earth tomorrow no one would shed a tear.
Oh...and whether you like it or not, or accept it, Obama will be re-elected in November, and in 2016 Hillary Clinton will be elected. The King of the Flip-Flops, Mitt Romney, has zero ideas of how to "fix" the country. He'll "fix" it like Republicans always do: give tax breaks to the richest people and corporations, then put all the burden on the middle class.
Romney's only hope lies in uneducated and downright stupid people who don't know any better...
we now have a corporate government, they control both party's, they elect congress and the senate and every president since JFK, when it takes a couple of million to get elected to a two year job, only the large lobbyists can get the donations for the Congress, if our representatives want to keep their job's, they must do the large corporations bidding, our nation is now starting to unravel, our founding fathers must be in total shock; God help us, nothing short of a divine intervention can get us out of this mess.
Demanding an end to the entitlement programs of corporate welfare and huge tax breaks for the privileged few who do only damage to our country is rather patriotic if you ask me.
OK, let's go ahead and get rid of all of those evil corporations; then what do you geniuses suggest that we do.....forage?
Shosyn, big business compete very well as you see top execs. pay increase triple digit percentage, while cutting the pay of there employees. I am all for business owners making good money that is the point of going into business. Although if you have employees you don't make money with out them. Very much like the current set up with the government, they want the public to pay for there own way yet continue to take the extravagant benefits we pay for through are taxes. If the GOP truly wanted to cut government spending they would do what leaders do which is lead by example. They don't and that is how you know a politician is giving you lip service, they tell you how you should do it but say (well I am different, I work hard for my benefits but you don't deserve them.) I used the GOP there but you can dittoo that for the Democrates as well. Most complainers come from small business owners and rightfully so they shoulder a lot of the burden because of regulation pushed by big business to keep them down.
Back to the article, I am afraid there will be more violence as people become more and more frustrated with not being heard.
Thats funny, i thought only black people rioted.
who else saw this coming???
Oh..they heard alright...they want free stuff. The answer is NO. How's that?
IndieParty
What makes you think these concepts are mutually exclusive? Plenty of jobs where I'm at.
HAHAHA..that is AWESOME! Superheroes pepper spraying unruly protesters, but making sure the police stay in line as well. Too great :)
DG_W,
If that is Romney's only hope then he is really in trouble because Obama already has that group in his camp.
Indie,
yes plenty of jobs, you can even work with Backcountry removing frontal temporal lobes for the Republican party. They have removed most of the member's lobes now but there are quite a few to go...... so hurry while the jobs last.
ashp
those of you complaining about those occupiers not having jobs... do you realize many of them were laid off and trying to find work? i am one of them. i have been trying to find a job for around a month now without success. i am btw a full time college student looking for a part time job to pay off my school loans. my credit was hurt because i was laid off and couldn't pay my bills. also had my identity stolen in 2008 filed tons of reports with police and it is still on my credit report. every job i have applied to has run my credit which i think is a complete invasion of my privacy. how is a laid off worker that couldn't get unemployment and had my identity stolen supposed to get a job to GET BETTER CREDIT when i cant get a job! screw you guys! you complain about the unemployed and welfare but you seem to stick up for the 1% who gave 6.8 billion of their 10 billion dollar bailout to their corporate execs and STILL laid off workers. that money was from the taxpayers so that businesses could keep everyone employed still. You dirty rats stick up for these billionaires that screw everyone over that work hard for a living. How DARE YOU GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY! the constitution states WE THE PEOPLE not WE THE 1%! Some americans need to take the stick out and care for the common. we are experiencing the greatest gap between the rich and poor in american history. And i still have to live with people like you who stick up for the elite! The elite thinks your despicable too! unless you make billions a year but its people like you that let this happen in america because you sit in judgement of your fellow man and let the corporations stick whatever they want wherever they want. As for me, i will continue to be on food stamps since i can't find a job. don't complain about people like me because until discriminatory practices in hiring are still around, i will be without a job because my credit is only getting worse because i don't have a job to pay my bills. What am i supposed to do? Catch 22. these occupiers are protesting for higher pay and more benefits.. that seems so much to ask for when CEOs are making billions and the average worker is making little more then minimum in their companies,, ya soooo unfair! ludicrous! screw you guys, there is no getting through to you conservative a** douches.
You may want to return to College because you obviously did not learn simple English Grammar. I for one don't have a College Degree and I do have a job. Yes I know what's its like to be unemployed. Here you are complaining about not having a job for a month. Oh you poor baby. Why don't you try being unemployed for 2 and half years. Then you still don't have work. Yet you have to eat and you need a roof over your head. So guess what? I went to work at two part time jobs in order to work. Oh yeah I hear your bemoaning the fact that Companies who are seeking employees want to know that those employee's are as good with their own finances as they may have to handle the Company's finances. Oh BTW there are many Employers who have decided to quit looking at Credit Scores because they realize many people have bruised credit in this economy. Quit your whining and go out and get a job like I did. I am 50 years old. What's your excuse. Just like your generation. Its everyone else's fault except your own. Guess when you have a President that blames everyone else then why not do the same.
Little kids... (break windows)... LOL...!!!
If they were really serious and had some balls... and if they were organized in some slight way... they would take their 150K people, and storm those thirty or forty cops....! Forget breaking windows... that's for kids...LOL...!!!
This ..."Bowel Movement"... is a joke... they have ..."seasons"... in which they protest... they protest in only good weather... they are in complete disarray when they do it, and they even name their little protests... ROTFLMAO...!!!!
So, according to you... Obama failed at creating jobs, but there are plenty of jobs, but he failed at creating them, but they were created. Obama failed at creating an environment that produces jobs, even though jobs were produced in this environment.
Right... makes perfect sense. (If you don't think about it)
I will retort too. "Start your own business and see where you end up... go ahead and pay your employees allot more then your competition and see who is in business after that." HENRY FORD for all his faults PAID his workers more then the average and look where it got him. What company did not need to be bailed out again?
Irrational? Can any of you please use some math to support your ideals or system? I am still waiting for someone to show me how we are not in a closed absolute system since we do not trade with animals or space aliens. The only thing we deal and compete with are other humans. Therefore the only reason you would not still be in business is that another group of humans is beating you. Sorry, but math says if there are people making over 10 times what others make then ONLY 10% of the population can make that much no matter how many carrots you wave in front of our faces. If someone makes 100 to 1 there can only be 1% of the population that makes that amount. And if someone makes 1000 to 1 then only 0.1% of the population can make that much.
Why does a worker in China, India, Mexico, etc. not make the same as an American for working 8 hours and doing the same exact job? Is this not part of the problem? What happens as you move jobs to those countries? The standard of living goes up and all the cheap labor goes away. You have to find another country to get cheap labor from. What happens when you run out of counties for cheap labor? Same thing that happens when you run out of land to plunder. The things that made us successful and got us out of the woods WILL NOT work in a society.
Irrational is saying that 50% of Americans do not pay taxes WHEN THEY DO. Multiply the amount that they pay in taxes by 13 to 14 so that their income matches the top bracket and BOTH GROUPS PAY THE SAME EFFECTIVE TAX RATE. In some cases the top bracket pays less. "Oh, but if we raise taxes by X amount then that will only be Y amount of money." B.S. it would be a start, and yet you REFUSE to do your part. You wonder why we say you are money/power addicts and hoarders, you do not listen to math, logic, or reason which makes you "irrational".
If the government is FORCED to print out more money because of people saving (hoarding) it, then the value DECREASES. If the value decreases and you do not get more (quantity) then the government HAS TAKEN MONEY FROM YOU. If someone makes more money then you and forces the government to print out more money then that person has taken money from you. This goes back to that closed system and there being a math formula or function in the background. The amount of currency divided by the amount of material or resources equal value. Change either the amount of currency or the amount of resources and the value changes.
Corporations and banks have the majority of money at the moment simply because of taxes. I wonder how much of a dent we could put into the debt if we raised corperate taxes. I bet since other countries are having economic problems (I wonder why) they would raise the tax rates on corporations too. The reason they had to lower the tax rates was because WE the U.S. lowered our rates FIRST. Ever since corporations have been paying less and less, while getting more and more. Rich people used to pay higher tax rates, but what happened to that? That is right they lobbied, bribed, QQ'ed, cried, etc. and now want to blame others for the problems that they created.
WHY DO WE HAVE UNREGULATED COMPETITION? Why can I not just go kill someone and take their stuff? Is that not competition? Why do I have to start up a business and take (earn) money from them peacefully? In an unregulated competition it is the ones who will bend, break, lie, cheat, steal, bribe, etc. that get ahead not the BEST. Did every one forget the studies that show how the majority of rich people think they are some how entitled, and it is ok for them to lie, cheat, steal, bend rules, break rules, etc. all to WIN. Therefore, why can I not just kill you and take your wife, house, car, etc. like we used to in the good old days before we had a society and laws?
HOW DO YOU THINK YOU DESERVE OVER 10 TIMES WHAT I MAKE? You do not do 10 times the amount of work. I am not your slave and I am not naive, I will take that carrot and shove it up your... I am a human being and you HAD better start treating me like one or else. I/we are not going to crawl into a corner, curl up, and die. We can do this the easy way or the hard way, it is your choice.
Enough with the V masks already!!!
It was a movIE about fighting for freeDOM, OWS is a movMENT about fighting for freeBIES.
"I am a human being and you HAD better start treating me like one or else."
LOL. Really? "or else"!!! That made it worth reading your post, confirming there is no logic contained in those unnecessarily long rants.
IndieParty
Just because Obama's attempts at job creation have been one failure after another doesn't mean there are no jobs out there. Just that he can't take credit for them. Are you actually admitting that concept is too hard for you to grasp? Do you ever make a post where you don't just make up a bunch of nonsense so you can rant and rave against it?
Now here is a statement which you are the undisputed master of.
Yup, treat me like I demand to be treated...or else. Somehow, something got lost in translation. Newsflash: you cannot legislate success. You cannot legislate wealth. What you can do is take away from the wealthy, give it to the poor and wait a few weeks. The poor will have blown that money and be broke again and getting loans from the formerly wealthy.
As to OWS and the protests: Too bad they are so inept and driven by millions of failed ideologies. We do indeed have corporate corruption, banking corruption and political corruption. Get rid of the dishonest politicans first (which would be like attempting to defy gravity) then go after the rest. Our system of monetization rewards corporations for failure. Quit with any bailouts of any company, for any company. True capitalism doesn't reward failure with taxpayer monies. Arrest those who deliberately lie, cheat and steal (except for Obama campaign bundlers like Corzine, of course)Then abolish the Federal Reserve...yep, I sound like a Ron Paul supporter and...I don't really care if he DID dance naked in his backyard, in fact that little tidbit is endearing:)
LOL
I'm watching live coverage of these idiots in Seattle right now, and I've never seen such an embarassment to the human race in my life. Watching these weak little pussies trying to break (yes, I said trying ) shop windows would be absolutely hilarious if it wasn't destroying other people's property. I hope every last one of them gets arrested and serves a lengthy prison sentence.
Overlord
No I don't want these animals representing me. They don't represent the 99%, it's a catchy little icon but that's where it stops. It's a chance for a bunch of ignorant fools to get together and act like animals. What part of the thousands of arrests in these "demonstrations" signal something "peaceful" to you? These guys are razzel-rousing pukes who have no common message, no common goal, and no common sense. So if that's what the 99% has got representing them I think the 99% better think twice about who their sponsors are.
The black pansy party is one of the most ridiculous racist and division driven movements of our time and even they make a better appearance than these jack-asses. But really, is anyone actually surprised at this. I really hope they continually play the clips of all the "celebrities" associating themselves with these delinquents. Way to represent the cause Kanye.
If political protests are supposed to consist of actions as absurd as this, then I guess the Tea Party is out of touch because you have NEVER seen any of this garbage at their rally's. Then again, they don't illegally take over public and private property when they get together either.
MyGirl1
When I start my movement to take over the world I'm putting out an invitation for you to join :-)
“We're trying to find new, positive community-building ways to engage and protest and be a part of the burgeoning civil dialogue about what this country should be doing,"
“KING reported numerous tires slashed and large amounts of glass on the ground from vehicles and buildings, including the federal courthouse, smashed by protesters.”
There seems to be a disconnect between the rhetoric and the reality - sort of reminds me of Obama.
AC
When the OWS organizes it's 150K membership to attack the small groups of police, about 90% of the 99% is going to join the OWS in the streets.
The OWS is not going to be happy though, because the 90% is going to stomp the living daylights out of this piss-ant OWS movement !!!
Indieparty...you are a broken record - on purpose. Please dry up unless you want to make a valid point instead of purposely acting (not very well) 'confused' about opinions that don't line up with your liberal viewpoints. 'Occupy'...is nothing but an excuse to go out, break things, then blame everybody else for it.
Well boys and girls its your socialist african american president you need to talk to about jobs. He wants to give 10 million non Americans free reign so they can now take over higher paying jobs and leave the bathrooms, hotels and vegetable harvesting to your white children. And once the 10 million non Americans have there way the left overs will go to the chinese. Enjoy your "CHANGE". Choke on it.
So you're suggesting that people in the South, who vote predominantly Republican, have more education that people in, say, Connecticut or Maryland? Have a look at this list: http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0811/Most-and-Least-Educated-States.aspx#axzz1tg8T61HO. Democratic states are in the most educated category, Republican states in the least educated.
But I do thank you for helping prove my point.
DG....your point is the most ridiculous point I've ever heard anybody try to make. lol Don't let your head explode dude.....
Looks like Obamas stinky children are back.
Why are the protesting immigration laws? This country is screwed up because we didn't close our borders 20 years ago. We don't need anymore non Americans here, period! Its a matter of population, not race, too many people here changing our landscape for the worse. All illegals should be given a 2 week notice to leave, after that face a firing squad.
Comment collapsed by the community=Comment collapsed by MSNBC.
Have you all noticed this?
How can this be ?!?!? Islam is a Religion of Peace ?!?!??!
"we’ll know whether or not they were hibernating all winter and now they’ve re-emerged, or if they’ve died out"
They have been even more active since losing Zuccotti Park, it's not just about occupying public space, that is only one means to their end. Perhaps the good professor should have logged onto www.occupywallst.org once in a while over the last 4 months to see, and maybe understand, what Occupy has been doing. You surely could not do so in the "mainstream" news media which has mostly pretended there was no news to cover in Occupy.
And, au contraire, IAScooterTramp, Occupy was not and is not today "irrelevant." Unless getting money out of politics, and stopping the ever increasing numbers of illegitimate foreclosures (several stories here on MSNBC recently have covered the findings of massive irregularities in the last couple years' foreclosures, they are not all of subprime mortgages to people without the means to pay their mortgage), and having affordable health coverage for all, and not wasting billions on truly irrelevant things like wars--to name just a few things--is irrelevant.
Motoricker, you must be reading some other story, there is nothing about Islam in this one.
pat
and they accomplished ANY of that? ..how?..where?..when? and why would they need to in the first damn place? ever ask yourself that? give ya a hint, ever hearof barney franks or Chris dodd?
but hey i believe you ....just as sure as i am going to go feed my unicorn now................:)
Relevant? Most definitely. As of 11/9/11 - 12 Rapes, 12 Antisemantic Rants, 3 arrests for public masturbation, 10 fires by Molitov Cocktails, 1 Shooting, 18 arrests for public urination, 9 arrests for urinating on other people, 1 Felony assault on an EMT, Cost to Taxpayers for damages $19,387,427.00. And these are just the ones that were reported to law enforcement. I would say they are extremely relevant.
I don't think they're irrelevant at all. I've been waiting for the weather to warm up so that this collection of clowns, bums and nitwits could once again provide me with daily entertainment. Both in photos, and on these boards as well.
These people were Nancy Pelosi"s wonder children until there true colors showed up. The libs wanted them back then and now they own them. They try to distance themselves but cannot. I know the economy is tough but if they would spend as much energy looking for work and cleaning themselves up as they do "protesting" and doing dope something positive would happen for them. And to the people that want to compare there movement to the tea party all I have to say is, really.
Waiting for the reports from the Congressional Halls on "who" is supporting these "May Day" rallies.
I wonder how many of these folks are living in an "under water mortgage" home.
Yep, another "campaign" target for the Liberals to support.
I think the liberals will be walking back their support of OWS after the arrests of 5 terrorists in Cleveland who attempted to blow up a bridge. 2 of them are directly connected to Occupy Cleveland, including one "organizer". I wonder if Sherrod Brown made any statements in support of these dangerous individuals? I'm sure we won't see it on the nightly news if he did.
Illegal immigrant (Mexican) kids OCCUPY seats at my local schools (and collect dust) at a cost of over $300,000.00 for PK-12 per tree swinger.
That's a lot to teach someone how to pick lettuce or get pregnant.
One day, Luis Gutierrez will be able to proudly tell his "peephole" (IN POOR ENGLISH or FAIR SPANISH) that he never lifted a finger to help the "Americanos" in his district.
Freedom of speech must be preserved for everyone whether you agree with the message or not. Otherwise your freedoms will be next to go. The Tea Party protests were the rights of those people, though preferably without bigotry and guns. And the Occupy rallies are the right of those people, though preferably without property damage.
And ALL preferably without police brutality. Those who support a Police State -- Once again, what's next, Martial Law? You think "socialism" is what Occupy is about, and though it isn't, you propose fascism as a better alternative -- Really?!
The right for labor to organize is another important variable of democracy. Those who fear-monger about so-called "union bosses" are using slight of hand to distract folks from the real problem of oligarchy (rule by the few -- corporations and the rich).
I admire the activism of these people today. In fact, more Americans need to take to the streets. Those who don't are the lazy ones sitting on their arses expecting things to be handed to them. If you think voting is enough, think again because your vote means very little now. Occupy's core message is to end greed and corruption, and that includes the massive amount of money in politics.
The right-wing Haters seem to come out in droves when there is an article about Occupy. Those misguided Haters need to do some major reflection.
weaselyone, et al -- There are a lot of unhinged people out there, whether NRA militia types (Timothy McVeigh) or individuals like Jared Loughner who killed so many in Tucson. With further investigation, this group will be found to have a history of problems that go back before Occupy was a movement.
What we as a nation need to do is stop Hate Speech, especially calls to violence such as the recent rant by Ted Nugent. There are always a radical fringe out there who are triggered by something like that. So how about more civility starting right here?
true...."I admire activism such as this(Occupy riots)"....and now you speak out for civility??? That sounds very typical leftist propaganda....Just as trying to pretend that Loughner was a conservative promoting the NRA....
J.A-522495 -- You call it "riots" and therefore it is you who shows no civility. Read my post #2.10 about freedom of speech and the right for labor to organize. If you are against these things, then you are against democracy.
Another recent anniversary was the 1992 Los Angeles (Rodney King) Riots --
That is what a riot is.
Thank you, True Patriot. I am shocked and appalled by how many posters seem willing to give up our 1st amendment rights (but don't mention the 2nd amendment to them!)
Also, I read an article that says there is a far greater percentage of OWS protestors who do have a job compared to Tea Party protestors. You could probably google it for yourself (I would but I have a job too)
If only as much effort went into finding a job as the occupiers spend protesting, this would be a dead issue. Nobody told you to get a Liberal Arts degree, which can't even get a fast food job and is a pointless degree to pursue to begin with. Get training in a RELEVENT field of study, Shave, shower and get rid of your sense of entitlement, then maybe you can get a job. I am so tired of the moaning and griping about higher pay and more jobs, blah blah blah. There are a lot of jobs to be had, just not the types that are at your your standards. You want to carry the torch for immigrant rights, apply for a common immigrant related job, ie, pick fruit, drive a cab. whatever. Stop holding out your hands for more money when you have nothing but rabble rousing to bring to the table, along with your sense of entitlement. I am so happy my dad kicked my ass all thru HS and college and hammered home the fatc that computers were the future. I love my high paying, satisfying job. I know i worked hard to get my present position and i deserve it. What i hate are newbies coming thru the door or applying thinking they should be making what i make when they have 1/8 my experience and training. The work ethic of the present working generation sucks and it gets worse every day. Here's a bit of advice, start shooting your expectations lower to match your lack of skill set and maybe you will actually get a job offer. You should not however, expect to walk in the door and be making 100K in a years time. Austerity needs to happen folks. Our present economy cannot sustain what our liberal government and our parasitic unions have come to expect as business as usual. Gone are the days of annual salary increases. Gone will be the days of FMLA, (Free money Laborunion assisted). Really, a man wants to be home with his newborn for how many weeks?. The pussification of America continues unabated.
Dom-462174 -- It's not about being unemployed, but rather the much larger root problem of where our country is heading -- And that is rule by corporations and the rich. Oligarchy, which has gotten worse thanks to the right-leaning SCOTUS and rulings such as Citizen's United (money = free speech!).
Here's some recommended reading:
Twilight of the Elites: America After Meritocracy by Christopher Hayes
Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill) by David Cay Johnson
This is for certain, a plutocrat like Flip Romney is NOT the kind of POTUS we need or want. The Paul Ryan plan is a good example of what is addressed in the book Free Lunch in which there are hidden loopholes in the budget that would allow the rich to continue sheltering their money offshore via "intellectual property" revenue -- Similar to the current tax breaks extended only to investment bankers and hedge fund managers (like Romney) on capital gains.
"...fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush
This is just an adult version of a temper tantrum.
When the incumbent administration and the unions back anarchists in the streets and occupying parks, the five in Cleveland are naturally going to follow. Lack of common sense and respect for laws comes from the top. Trickle down corruption.
These Marxist vermin are emboldened and encouraged by the Marxist in the white house, and his new slogan "Forward", a long time slogan for promoting Marxism throughout the 19th and 20th centuries. Obama is and always was a Marxist, and it's becoming more and more difficult for his supporters to deny this.
TruePatriot-445959
I already used the CSI line "we won't be fooled again", a few times but it applies to more Obama promises. Greed and envy promoted by the very administration that is supposed to serve the people of the USA is nothing short of a disgrace. We do not want this race baiting and contry deviding to continue, ergo we will change who is in Washington come November. There is absolutely no excuse for the supposed leaders of our nation to encourage such anti-American and anti-law and order behavior. If they want anarchy and/or socialism I suggest they move to Chavezland.
Even Jay Leno saw through Obama's slogan "Forward", yes indeed he sure doesn't want anyone looking back at this failure record.
True Patriots do not support the current administration. True Patriots support our Constitution and the Government System our forefathers wisely put in place. True Patriots do not forbid kids from singing the proper words to God Bless the USA. True Patriots do not want a Socialist Economy. True Patriots do not sit in the street or lay in the parks whining. True Partriots ask what they can do for their country, not what thier country can do for them.
Three words for those who still think these protesters are irrelevant. Good little peasant...
Good post, Shaking my Head. If our founding fathers were alive today, they would say the same thing you just said.
I have studied the Constitution, got straight A's in Constitutional Law and I don't remember reading anywhere that is a freedom of speech thing to sit in a park, leave tons of trash behind and generally cause trouble without being able to even say what the heck it is you are supposedly protesting. These people are just whiners with nothing better to do wanting someong to continue the pampering their parents gave them or homeless due to personal behavior problems None of which involves free speech to protest anything. I really get tired of the "free speech" line being used for everything from burning our flag to painting condoms on crosses. YET, the lefties love to use any excuse to stomp on those legitimately using free speech in honor of the religion our country was founded on. Free speech was not put in the Constitution with the intent to provide carte blanche to people to be disrespectful to the law and the disruptions of the lives of ordinary citizens to serve political interests of a failed administration.
THank you Random
You have to remember that Republicans are willing to give up YOUR rights, but not their own. It's the typical double-standard that is so common with the GOP that is borders on cliche.
Republicans have the right to free speech, but YOU do not. Republicans have the right to assemble, but YOU do not. You either agree with them, or you lose your rights. It's the baseline for fascism, which is the GOP end-game... a fascist regime, governed by religious law. Remember: When fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and carrying a cross.
Robby McGeddon, 47, a tech worker carrying a maypole for May Day, said, “There's too much fear for the general public to actually want to strike. They don’t want to lose their job. ... We haven’t reached that tipping point where people are more frightened for some place to live. ... It will get to the tipping point but right now we're just practicing.”
Here is the thing about this comment. I doubt seriously that Robby is a conservative, and yet he is oddly rooting for things to get worse to make his point about how unfair things have gotten. Democrats constantly say that republicans are rooting for the economy to sag, and yet really the OWS crowd needs to root for things to sag in order to remain relevant.
Since when have the police ever been peaceful?
So let's go protest....smash some windows, vandalize property and maybe get arrested all in hopes of landing a job, a higher wage job at that.....are they for real? IDIOTS!
The trouble is.. they HAVE been looking for work, and I am totally in sync with their frustration.. but what they don't understand is that their anger is misguided against the 'evil corporations' that they'd actually like to have a job with.
These companies exist to show a profit for the stockholders. That's what businesses do.. No way to sugar coat that .. Rocks are hard.. Water is wet.. and corporations exist to make a profit.
But when you have a bunch of disconnected lawmakers in DC who continue to tax and regulate these companies to the extent they can no longer compete in a global economy... they are left with no other choice but to uproot and move to where the business climate is more friendly. And that's just how it is.
The people they should really be yelling at are the treasonous bastards right under that dome in DC.. and 'kindly request' that they move to make the United States a much more favorable environ in which to do business. Of course that might take some intellectual rigor along with some coordinating effort on their part.. But hey, ya gotta start somewhere.
When the protesters destroy Public and/or Private Property, the authorities should take any measures necessary to apprehend those individuals. They and/or their parents (if they are under 18 years of age) should be held liable for the cost of repairs to property and the police presence. Take the deadbeats off the grid and rid the world of their deadbeat DNA.
theboys: You must be talking about the GOP, which actively votes against the President's employment reform plans and almost seems to be trying to gut the economy. Robby is not advocating for the decline in the US. He's stating a fact.
Oh, and the $7 trillion that the Fed has given the banks and big business? That just happens to be the amount of exposure estimated in the current housing market and that the system will lose due to foreclosures.
The rich get richer; the poor get poorer.
JoeB-460595: The OWS breaks some glass and dress in black. The banks and private business swindled trillions and remain hidden.
And so you're more concerned about a little glass?
F*** you conservatives. you are noting but hypcrites! you complain no one has a job and welfare spending and blah blah but you fail to realize many of these protesters have been laid off by major corporations still making record profit! what about corporate welfare! the bailout that taxpayers paid for was 10 billion to companies like goldman sachs, it was given by the govt so that corproations would keep people hired but instead they gave themselves 6.8 billion in raises! wtf? how do you condone that! that was your money btw. I was recently laid off and my credit sucks because of that, a divorce and an identity theft issue that i have tried numerous times to get off my record by filing police reports.. every job i have applied for requires a credit check... how am i supposed to get a job to improve my credit to get a job? ! laughable. blah blah get jobs blah blah! we are trying you bigots! these people are arguing for better pay and benefits. Yep that sounds unfair to me.... ignorance knows absolutely no limits with you .you explain to me why it is right that the elite make 40% of the wealth in this country and 427times the average worker!? how can you stick up for that! you say they worked hard for it.... how hard must one work for billions? plenty of people work hard! most of them got their fortunes handed down to them through buisnesses or trust funds. No logic there. the truth is, the elite is screwing us all. we are numbers to them and you republicans will screw over the poor to kiss the rich peoples A** who are screwing you too. You are dispicable to them just like the rest of us, you are "common" keep sticking up for the wrong people. thank god im a college student bettering my life through education. Open to suggestions shoot away
America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve.
”
— Tom Morello, Guitar World[3
Just Reading -
TruePatriot-445959 (among others) - I read a number of your posts I would not disagree with much if any of what I did read very well said I think you answered with reality based answers a rarity.
The one over-riding issue of the most importance...morally just and FAIR: I demand these loafers as Romney and the rest of the free loaders paying between 12% and 17% on passive income the 1% and that includes the record reported earnings of these individuals if truly an individual, the corporations pay (these 1% too) in taxes the rate as I do on my marginal income: the rates being 35% federal and 10% state.
No more loopholes as the ones Romney uses to escape being taxed at the same rate I do plus hiding his money in numerous off-shore and his Swiss accounts...he is a fraud" the etch a sketch man". Made many millions killing American jobs...he wont release his finances as Obama yet wants to rule America..he won't reveal his stake and the worth of his ownership of Bain but why? He is whatever the situation calls for...the situation calls for finally shared sacrifice and that means fair and balanced taxation pay your taxes at the same rate I do.
Just approve what the vast majority of Americans want which is for the loopholes that allow individual as Romney to pay at or less than 17% to be amended so they pay what the middle class pays. I don't want to hear of job creators and how wonderful people they are and how the country needs them because none of the worlds greatest corporations would come to America nor could do the job - do you believe that?
Night and Good Luck - Make law a fair version of "The Buffet Rule" - Billionaires and Millionaires for America...."The Real Americans".....
"F*** you conservatives"
Wow, you Democrats are so immature. How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you talk like an idiot?
The federal government spent $92 billion in direct and indirect subsidies to businesses and private- sector corporate entities — expenditures commonly referred to as "corporate welfare" — in fiscal year 2006. The definition of business subsidies used in this report is broader than that used by the Department of Commerce's Bureau of Economic Analysis, which recently put the costs of direct business subsidies at $57 billion in 2005. For the purposes of this study, "corporate welfare" is defined as any federal spending program that provides payments or unique benefits and advantages to specific companies or industries.
Supporters of corporate welfare programs often justify them as remedying some sort of market failure. Often the market failures on which the programs are predicated are either overblown or don't exist. Yet the federal government continues to subsidize some of the biggest companies in America. Boeing, Xerox, IBM, Motorola, Dow Chemical, General Electric, and others have received millions in taxpayer-funded benefits through programs like the Advanced Technology Program and the Export-Import Bank. In addition, the federal crop subsidy programs continue to fund the wealthiest farmers.
Because the corporate welfare state transcends any specific agency — and therefore any specific congressional committee — one way to reform or terminate those programs would be through a corporate welfare reform commission (CWRC). That commission could function like the successful military base closure commission. The CWRC would compose a list of corporate welfare programs to eliminate and then present that list to Congress, which would be required to hold an up-or-down vote on the commission's proposal.by Stephen Slivinski
I don't subscribe to any of our failing political parties. F*** you too
If Tea Partiers were confronted by the police in the same way the police confront OWS'ers - they would react the same as the OWS'ers. The Tea Party is dead, when they did assemble, all they did was sit there like a bump on a log, their fear paralyzing them. Oh, they nodded and cheered like any pro sports fan responding to the artificial "Charge" sign on the score-board, but whimpered off like all other Right-wing off-shoots in our history. TP'ers and their like know they have it good, that is why they can't sustain their protests and keep a straight face. How many Lefties get to post to the Internet while at work?
You who think the OWS'ers are part of the Democrats, that is your wishful thinking taking over your logical responders. As one who is truly a progressive thinking Liberal - it is a slap in the face to compare us to Democrats - if anything; Republicans and Democrats are far more alike than true liberated people. Your two name calling sides can't stand it that no matter how much you both think you are right - there are truly liberal people who will always see both of your faults. So; give your self a Fail if you generalized who you think real OWS'ers and the liberal supports are in the USA. Maybe you missed it - but this March today was World Wide - real liberals know the family is bigger than Countries.
where are the conservatives when the rich take your money?! what about halliburton who used up millions of our taxpaying dollars that became unaccounted for!! where are you little brats when the corporations take YOUR MONEY!? GM: take your money and still lay off thousands of workers!!! god forbid they protest in the streets! their money went to the bailout that was supposed to secure their jobs!
What does that have to do with the article?
First off: Let me drop a riddle for Bullfighter-2591838 (and thank you for proving this BTW):
What is the difference between the GOP and KKK?
Answer: Three Ks.
Here is your prize.
Now that I have Godwin-ed this thread...
As far as this Occupy shenanigans: While I do agree it is within everybody's right to protest (funny how the conservs over this, yet have no problems with "Right to life" or Anti-Obama or Tea Party shindigs), I strongly disagree when it comes to a riot. Makes me mad as hell to hear "No Justice No Peace" chants when somebody (OJ, MJ, the list goes on...) because that won't solve anything.
Long story short: These Occupy things are meaningless. Neither party cares about you even if you support them. Only you can care for you. A riot =/= free speech. To say differently is ridiculous.
@shakingmyhead....good post...(true partiots...) the only thing i would like to ad is that true patriots also question their government when the government is wrong...so if the govt is (as we are now) corrupt, and not working in the peoples best interest...it is the "true patriots" rights and duties to dessent and oppose such a government.
What i find funny is RandomPennsylvanian, who aggrees with you (while sporting a Romney picture). Romney would be the same as this administration! Just noting!
These people are absolutely foul and disgusting pigs.
This is not about freedom of speech or workers’ rights. This is just an excuse to riot.
The blame for this goes all the way to the white house. The Obama administration is destroying this great country. Freedom and Liberty are being lost. Very sad.
still open to suggestions. How am i supposed to get a job to earn better credit to land a job now that 40% of buisnesses require a credit check even for very menial jobs like the ones i am applying to. what about convicts? they can't get jobs either to improve their lives so they rely on social programs if they can actually get them. Newsflash conservatives: people will continue to be unemployed at an alarming rate until these companies HIRE PEOPLE THAT NEED WORK WITHOUT DISCRIMINITORY HIRING PRACTICES!
Great america: Bush already destroyed the White house as we knew it! Freedom and liberty lost HAHAHA google patriot act and talk to me about liberties. something Obama didn't put into play. you people and your jokes.
Well elections are coming up, then we'll find out if the tea party is dead?
Go tea party!!!
Maybe someone should tell these jackass protestors that they should put all their energy in looking for jobs than destroying small business shops that people work hard for. O ya its easier to blame the Republicans and collect a welfare check and destroy small business shops. If you have been layed off, divorce and identity fraud, its the Repulicans fault, get off your losing feeling sorry ass and pull your own life together. Or how about asking the big shot union bosses for some help?? How come no one protest homes of the filthy rich movie stars, why should they make what they make and than the shows cost you so much to see a movie? O thats right because CA is a Democrat state, so its ok not to protest them. Or maybe you jackass's should go down and destroy the border, because if we did not have to support every illegal that comes into this state with their 10 kids, Ca would have more money to help you. But thats right blame the Repulicans for everything because we do not believe in just giving everyone free medical, welfare, free colledge, and anything else that you jackass Democrates thing they should have. Hey why don't you call jackass Obama and he'll shame his books rights with all of you. The one thats in college how much is it costing you for school compare to the illegal next to You? You are all full of @!$%#. Just remember to all you jackass's you had 8 years of a Democrat Congress under Bush and 2years under Jackass Obama, so what happen? Hey why don't you go and see Obama next time he's in CA, oh thats right its cost thousands of dollars to eat with him, what hes not sharing the wealth with all you jackass's???
ashp, I never said Bush or the GOP is a shining beakon of good over evil or not without faults. Yes, there are things that need to be fixed but this in not the road to a good solution for our future or the future of our children.
It is a bad idea to give control to one group or government, and that is what these people want.
If you want change the only hope is to put the power back in the hands of the people, at a local level.
I really wish this site would just get rid of the whole collapse thing. Most of the time those posts that have been collapsed are the only ones worth checking out. This country's skin has gotten way to thin.
Except Rabid Cheez Spank your monkey,, the KKK were all DEMOCRATS,,, go read up on your history and not just liberal lies, your being a puppet for them,,
Comment # 2 restored for clarity, although it is major derailing from motoricker. Stay on topic.
You are suspended for a day for violating rule # 4 of the Code of Honor.
Bullfighter-2591838, you are suspended for a month for violating rule # 5 of the Code of Honor.
Last chance.
ashp, don't grenade troll. You are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
True patriot post 2.13....So, tell me again that the Occupy idiots(AKA Mayday) dont riot....Check what your slimey buddies did in Seattle....Millions of dollars worth of damage, looting and damaging any property that they could. I am sure that when they damaged and spray painted all those cars, they must have checked to make sure that they all belonged to the richest one percent.....These people are slime and you are slime for supporting them....I hope the police have enough photos of them so that they eventually have to spend time in jail....Isnt it wonderful how the far left whackos all believe that fairness is very important.....
shaking my head.
I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all
This is the real pledge. We have separation of church and state in this country, or should anyway.
True Patriot
Labor organized, labor blackmailed, labor strong armed, and now labor is unemployed and insignificant in this county. American labor cant compete in a world market, they want too much and do too little, why pay an American 20.00 an hour when you can get a better job done at a quarter of the price overseas.
FBI provocateur ensnares Cleveland protesters in “bomb plot”
By Bill Van Auken
3 May 2012
Federal authorities Tuesday, May 1, charged five men described as “anarchists” with plotting to blow up a bridge linking two Cleveland, Ohio suburbs. The charges were the culmination of a six-month long sting operation involving a paid confidential informant that ended with undercover FBI operatives supplying the five with fake explosives and then arresting them.
An affidavit presented by the FBI to secure warrants for the arrests claims that the case grew out of a decision of the agency’s Cleveland office to send their informant into an Occupy Cleveland demonstration last October to investigate a “report of potential criminal activity and threats involving anarchists.”
The so-called “terrorist plot” traces its origins to this FBI fishing expedition and, as the affidavit makes clear, would never have existed outside of the agency’s informant and undercover operatives egging on the five defendants, organizing their activities and supplying them with the fake explosives.
The men arrested were identified as Brandon Baxter, 20, described by police as homeless, Douglas Wright, 26, Connor Stevens, 20, Joshua Stafford, 23 and Anthony Hayne, 35. All but Wright, who was said to be from Indianapolis, were from Cleveland or surrounding suburbs.
A report by a local television station, WKYC, suggested that some of the men had mental problems. It cited a police report from February that Baxter had “jumped in front of a car in the middle of the night and told the driver to kill me.”
Stafford’s mother described her son as someone who has “been troubled since he’s been young, been in and out of hospitals, prisons, jails. He’s just been a troubled soul since he’s been born.”
In its description of the Confidential Human Source, or informant, who has yet to be identified, the FBI affidavit states that he, or she, “has a criminal record including one conviction for possession of cocaine in 1990, one conviction for robbery in 1991, and four convictions for passing bad checks between 1991 and 2011.” The informant was paid $5,750 for his services and $550 for expenses.
This is a typical profile for the informers used by the FBI. They are individuals facing jail for criminal offenses who are offered leniency and cash in return for entrapping others in manufactured conspiracies. Such was the case with Shahed Hussain, a failed Pakistani immigrant businessman who was convicted of fraud and then asked to become an informer, trawling New York state’s Muslim immigrant communities and mosques for individuals who could be lured into conspiracies of the FBI’s invention. This produced two major “terrorist plots,” one in Albany involving alleged money laundering for purchase of a non-existent stinger missile, and one in Newburgh that centered on four black American Muslims, paid by and acting under the instructions of the informant, planting fake explosives at synagogues...
…At one point, the affidavit’s version of the recording transcripts shows the informant pressing Baxter that decisions must be made because they “are not that far out from the operation, time-wise,” and Baxter replying that he “was just throwing around ideas and does not know exactly what they should do.”
This type of exchange is repeated in the course of the affidavit, indicating that the informant was the driving force in the so-called conspiracy, pressing the hapless “anarchists” to carry out actions that they had neither the inclination nor the ability to do on their own. Indeed, it is not clear whether the five even had access to a car, as the informant is repeatedly reported as driving them to the meetings with the undercovers, to the site of the bridge and elsewhere…
…The government’s purpose in staging these operations in relation to Muslims in the US is clear. They are designed to lend substance to the so-called war on terror, justifying wars of aggression abroad and increased surveillance and repression within the US itself in the name of “keeping Americans safe” from a supposedly ubiquitous threat of Al Qaeda attack.
What is the government’s aim in now turning these same methods against alleged anarchists expressing hostility to corporate America?
After the five men were arraigned in federal court in shackles and leg irons Tuesday afternoon, US Attorney Steven Dettelbach told a press conference that, “This case demonstrates that the threat we face is a diverse one; that terrorism can come in many hues and from many homelands.”
This is a warning. Under conditions of protracted economic crisis and growing social unrest, the government is preparing to use the police state methods it developed in the “war on terror” to intimidate and suppress any challenge to the rule of the corporations and the financial elite in America. Judging from the government’s own affidavit, the entrapment of the hapless “anarchists” in Cleveland is a test run of this strategy.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/clev-m03.shtml
Arch Stanton....Of course all these people would be innocent and above reproach if the FBI were not investigating them, right? They wouldnt possibly do anything wrong, would they? It all must be a sinister plot by the FBI simply because they have nothing else to do and they have it in for the innocent people....There probably isnt any reason to investigate anyone, right? After all, the criminals are just victims of law enforcement and society.....right??? Perhaps you think that there would never be a problem at all if the government would just see that they got more money every month, right? That is fairness, right?
Anarchists, Socialists, homeless, drug users, hippies and liberal progressives. That about sums up this stupid "movement".
but do not allign them with the Democratic party...ha!
You forgot to include "bowel" in your list of movements!
Wow....congratulations on the use of a bigoted, broad brush to tie together a bunch of different groups without a thread of logic, objective evidence, or rational discussion.
Why is it bigoted to tie together a bunch of different groups whose only common thread is, in fact, a lack of any logic, objective or rationality? Seems like a perfectly reasonably way to link them together.
Given your choice of words, you either don't know the meaning of the word bigot, or are just one of those members of the amateur thought-police who like to use it to shut down anyone who doesn't immediately bow to the whims of your big bleeding rectum. In either case, maybe you should stop talking periodically.
I sort of missed the stupidity and futility of these morons. I sort of forget they even were around, sort of Flock of Seagulls.
You mean objective evidence like the Occupiers, who are self-identified as anarchists, attempting to blow up an Ohio Bridge? The FBI announced today that they arrested five “anarchists”.
They aren't connected to Occupy you say? Yeah, it just so happens that they planted the bombs on the eve of May 1st. Oh yeah, and they were quoted and/or arrested at Occupy Cleveland events last year.
Brandon Baxter: arrested and quoted as an Occupier. Now in FBI custody for the failed bombing attempt.
Anthony Hayne: known Occupy Cleveland participant. Now in FBI custody.
Might be safe to assumethe other 3 "Anarchists" tie back to OWS, but I'll let other posters come to their own conclusion.
How does this work for rational discussion? Does the arrest of Occupy members who self identify as anarchists for terroristic actions qualify as rational discussion?
I think a rational argument can be made that Occupy encourages these sorts of actions, and that is what May 1st is supposed to be about for these guys. "Taking Action" has now lead to 5 arrests for terrorism.
How many more arrests will there be? What happens if they succeed with one of these attacks? When will the true 99% of Americans speak out in uniformity against these criminals and the politicians who support them? How long will it be until MSNBC pulls down the article talking about the Democrats' attempts to co-opt occupy?
McLovin, I'd suggest you and the rest of the Occupiers expand your act beyond flinging poop, banging on drums at 3:00 AM, raping your own women in tents, and using drugs and exposing yourselves in front of neighborhood kids.
Do those things and just maybe OWS will be worthy of a "rational discussion."
"Get a job you damn hippies!"- My dad and most other old people.
I find it interesting that when the couple of old guys in Georgia got caught in a similar act, the news went all crazy about them being tea partiers. But when it happens the other way, shh. Be quiet. It will go away.
thank the communistic, obama loving, talking empty heads at the lame stream media that distort and lie to push the leftist agenda
DGW commented that the Occupiers tried to "separate" themselves from the anarchists today........then they should be out there shouting them down and telling the media that they don't agree with the anarchists and denounce their actions, yet they don't........hmmmmm........they are all one and the same.......they hate capitalism and this country.......very simple.........they need to take a shower and get a job!!!!!!
You're really stupid if that's what you think, because you clearly don't know and understand what is going on. You only know what Fox "News" tells you and all your fellow unamerican Nazis.
For all you morons who think this is about free handouts, IT'S NOT!! It is about receiving what you have EARNED though hard work....which I thought was considered American, but you Nazis are calling this American value Socialism.
Yes I think we all need to ignore, make fun of, call names to all the occupy people and let big business and big corporations continue to run over workers rights and send jobs over seas till we are fully a 3rd country. I don't agree with violence but you people making fun of them better wake up because when big money is done, you will be hurting too.
lukewarm.....your mother must've been a chain smokin drunkard when you where delivered. Wake up boy. This movement is fresh and ready to show the world that greed will be dealt with. You ain't seen nuttin yet.
Those rascals in the colonies think think that they deserve representation with their taxation! They have the audacity to want to use metal tools! Why do they think they deserve anything but to pay tribute to the King? Who do they think they are....
Occupy Wall Street all day all week!
gee i sure would like to operate a fire hose to fix that.
Occupy a bus seat to Mexico.
That's for the ILLEGALS who want worker's rights!! Actually, they have NO right to even work here!
How about you occupy a job you lazy SOB's!!
Is that just a politically-popular way of saying: 'no work, all day, all week'?
Occupy a burger flipping machine.
Occupy either needs to start making productive suggestions, or just go away. I'd prefer productive solutions, but that doesn't seem to be in the cards...
I've got one, how about send the banksters to jail.
gotta have a train of thought first and most of these clowns ain't got a clue.
Send the "banksters" to prison? For which offense: being forced by Congress to make low interest loans that people didn't qualify for to pay back or for not loaning money to people who can pay back due to new government regulations?
now now skeeter, lets not try to confuse poor Alan with facts and logic, shame on you..........:)
Ron - the OCW crowd is not interested in "productive" solutions. They are interested in destroying the work of others and expecting others to support them and their families without working themselves.
What about wiping out their student loan debts just because they voluntarily majored in Unemployment? What about that?
Oh! 'productive solutions' - sorry, my bad. I misread you and I apologize.
Occupy will go away because the perpetual motion machine has not been invented yet.
Hahah! There comments are funny.
Not unless "productive suggestions" includes blowing up bridges.
The FBI announced today that they arrested five “anarchists”
2 of the 5 arrested have already been outed as Occupy Cleveland members. Brandon Baxter is even documented as an "organizer" for Occupy Cleveland.
Do I amuse you? Do you think I'm a clown? Am I here to amuse you Henry?
I am glad to see that people are still out there fighting for us workers that make the world turn. Capitalism was not meant to make a few people billionaires and the rest pay check to pay check. Just like the Government, its checks and balances. Lets keep on checking the ultra rich until we can get some balances again. Unfortunately a lot of you are stupid. I call you Yosemite Sams.
"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes that you can do these things. Among them are a few Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or businessman from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
President Dwight D. Eisenhower, l952"
And I know you all are not Texas Oil Millionaires. Stop shooting yourselves in the foot.
I wonder how many of the OWS people know that May Day was a holiday in the former Soviet Union..
Like all the productive suggestions we got from the Tea Party?
OWS is a movement that is keeping the flashlight on the nasty little bankers who mishandled homeloans while collecting big bonuses. In fact, obscene bonuses. The decision of the board last week to vote down the compensation packet for a top banker was probably due to OWS keeping the focus on those who don't pay their share and cream off too much, even when they are incompetent. I don't understand the dedication of those who are obviously not of the 1% in protecting them. They aren't going to make you rich, you know that don't you?
Why should anyone have their student loans wrote off?. Figuring out what one wants to do for a career is a long process that one should study in detail to make sure that the field is not over saturated or under employed. Seems like a no-brainer. There aren't many positions open for an art degree, certainly not many that pay a living wage. Humanities is the same. If you got a degree in a field considered worthless for generating income, that's your fault. The money to be made is in technology, communicaitons, business, accounting.. There is no money to be made in the liberal arts. You can however get a job at the local or state human rights division or some other, over-bloated, anti-employer agency to continue your liberal activities.
Thank you Dom!!!! I remember in high school saying how much I loved English Literature but after a quick reality check I realized there was no future with that as a major. So now 12 years later and almost out of student loan debt I'm an accountant and I read in my spare time.
I don't have a problem with banks giving loans to short-sighted, overreaching people who don't know how to be reasonable with money. I do have a problem when former execs and CEOs of banks like BoA and Citibank occupy key offices in our government, and work tirelessly to change laws and regulations so that banks can effectively steal money from the government and us citizens. If you deny this has happened or believe there is nothing wrong with it, than you are part of thr problem. Bottom-dwelling miscreants looking for handouts need to go, but the big men at top who have been robbing us blind need to as well. Those of us unwilling to admit that both groups exist and need to go are doing nothing more than regurgitating garbage they've picked up from their politically leaning, irresponsible mainstream media outifts (conservative and liberal alike - both are useless!)
Just watching the news and a report from the gathering in New York City. One of the speakers was the lead guitarist from Rage Against the Machine. The "perk" was that anyone who brought a guitar had the opportunity to "play with" him. The crowd ROUNDLY applauded his speech / comments.
Does anyone else find this incredibly ironic?
Being that he is a successful musician....wouldn't he be part of the 1%? You know...part of that TOP 1% of wage earners.
Occupy loses a lot of credibility when they pick and choose their targets within the 1%, instead of protesting ALL of them. The music, entertainment, and, yes, even sports industries should be viewed as just as bad as anything on Wall Street. Does any actor/actress/singer/sports star REALLY deserve $20+ million per year in salary? I'm not begrudging, or jealous...I'm really asking the question of the Occupiers on here why they haven't focused any of their "hate" towards the entertainment industry...but rather have, more or less, embraced it's support.
They work hard at their craft and earn the money they make because people PAY to watch....but isn't that just capitalism....and isn't that what they are protesting on Wall Street....people working hard and making money by charging the "less fortunate" more and more money to pay for it?
Also, boycotting a need makes no sense. If you boycot the gas industry for 1 day...it won't hurt the industry at all. Say I decide to not buy gas tomorrow....but don't change my using habits. I'm either going to have to buy the SAME gas either today or Thursday. The gas company still gets my money, and the boycot is moot.
As for the Commie May day rants here is the FACTS
International May Day
A great international demonstration shall be organized for a fixed date in such a manner that the workers in all countries and in all cities shall on a specified day simultaneously address to the public authorities a demand to fix the workday at eight hours and to put into effect the other resolutions of the International Congress of Paris.
In view of the fact that such a demonstration has already been resolved upon by the American Federation of Labor at its convention of December 1888 in St. Louis for May 1, 1890, that day is accepted as the day for the international demonstration.
This all happened before the Soviets declared it a holiday. So You can spin it if you like being a liar. But IN our FREE society it was more about an 8 hour Workday. For 8 hours of pay.
Russia's The Central Committee of the Bund.
April, 1908 first one was in 1904 1905 Marxists movement joined in
I rather like the Idea that a Free society the USA did it first don't you.
go to work or go to jail. do not pass go!!!!!!!
Freedom of speech must be preserved for everyone whether you agree with the message or not. Otherwise your freedoms will be next to go. The Tea Party protests were the rights of those people, though preferably without bigotry and guns. And the Occupy rallies are the right of those people, though preferably without property damage.
And ALL preferably without police brutality. Those who support a Police State -- Once again, what's next, Martial Law? You think "socialism" is what Occupy is about, and though it isn't, you propose fascism as a better alternative -- Really?!
The right for labor to organize is another important variable of democracy. Those who fear-monger about so-called "union bosses" are using slight of hand to distract folks from the real problem of oligarchy (rule by the few -- corporations and the rich).
I admire the activism of these people today. In fact, more Americans need to take to the streets. Those who don't are the lazy ones sitting on their arses expecting things to be handed to them. If you think voting is enough, think again because your vote means very little now. Occupy's core message is to end greed and corruption, and that includes the massive amount of money in politics.
The right-wing Haters seem to come out in droves when there is an article about Occupy. Those misguided Haters need to do some major reflection. Look at them collapsing free speech as fast as they can!
i love how my comments were collapsed. it shows all of your hypocracy. you conservatives think you believe in freedoms but you don't. you condemn dissent in any form. you prove my point more and more every day. and i can answer your question golfarch: artists like rage against the machine have given aways millions in free shows and to charities for their cause. im not sticking up for other celebs i find them dispicable. rage has a platform and they use it to support human rights and bring awareness. they have a platform and they use it. they have money and they give it back to the fans through charities, awarness programs and free shows to rally support for the common man. what is more worth sticking up for then the common man? this is america right?
and we have one of these for our president
What! Only vanalism, no looting? Or is it that the looting is not reported, like our soldiers getting shot?
it just goes to prove the point that most of us want to see reform in capitalism, not total depletion of it. Rage uses the capitalistic system to raise funds for their cause. not only are people purchasing their music and enjoying that, they also enjoy that there are musicians out there that still care about human rights and promoting them and using that money to do so.
You really do NOT understand OWS do you? OWS is not against people having money or being rich. OWS is against the Fashism that is taking place in this country... Are you aware that there are plenty of good moral indivducals that could be a good president ? Oh, yea you are not a millionare so you WONT be ABLE to even THINK about running...THAT IS AN EXAMPLE OF fashism.. Or...how SMALL BUSINESS are being wiped out by BIG CORP.. because they can not get loans anymore...fashism...or how in the medical community - how they engrossly focus on profits over people...fashism..medicine should not be about profits..but we all know how the drug and Phara pay have tons of money to pay politicians off to get laws in their favor...fashism...or how you can NOT work yoru way up the HONEST way anymore in any company...you really have to have money in this country to make money..or you are nobody..fashism
OWS is not against people that have money...only a small minded person would see it that way..
ashp
those of you complaining about those occupiers not having jobs... do you realize many of them were laid off and trying to find work? i am one of them. i have been trying to find a job for around a month now without success. i am btw a full time college student looking for a part time job to pay off my school loans. my credit was hurt because i was laid off and couldn't pay my bills. also had my identity stolen in 2008 filed tons of reports with police and it is still on my credit report. every job i have applied to has run my credit which i think is a complete invasion of my privacy. how is a laid off worker that couldn't get unemployment and had my identity stolen supposed to get a job to GET BETTER CREDIT when i cant get a job! screw you guys! you complain about the unemployed and welfare but you seem to stick up for the 1% who gave 6.8 billion of their 10 billion dollar bailout to their corporate execs and STILL laid off workers. that money was from the taxpayers so that businesses could keep everyone employed still. You dirty rats stick up for these billionaires that screw everyone over that work hard for a living. How DARE YOU GET OUT OF MY COUNTRY! the constitution states WE THE PEOPLE not WE THE 1%! Some americans need to take the stick out and care for the common. we are experiencing the greatest gap between the rich and poor in american history. And i still have to live with people like you who stick up for the elite! The elite thinks your despicable too! unless you make billions a year but its people like you that let this happen in america because you sit in judgement of your fellow man and let the corporations stick whatever they want wherever they want. As for me, i will continue to be on food stamps since i can't find a job. don't complain about people like me because until discriminatory practices in hiring are still around, i will be without a job because my credit is only getting worse because i don't have a job to pay my bills. What am i supposed to do? Catch 22. these occupiers are protesting for higher pay and more benefits.. that seems so much to ask for when CEOs are making billions and the average worker is making little more then minimum in their companies,, ya soooo unfair! ludicrous! screw you guys, there is no getting through to you conservative a** douches.
You may want to return to College because you obviously did not learn simple English Grammar. I for one don't have a College Degree and I do have a job. Yes I know what's its like to be unemployed. Here you are complaining about not having a job for a month. Oh you poor baby. Why don't you try being unemployed for 2 and half years. Then you still don't have work. Yet you have to eat and you need a roof over your head. So guess what? I went to work at two part time jobs in order to work. Oh yeah I hear your bemoaning the fact that Companies who are seeking employees want to know that those employee's are as good with their own finances as they may have to handle the Company's finances. Oh BTW there are many Employers who have decided to quit looking at Credit Scores because they realize many people have bruised credit in this economy. Quit your whining and go out and get a job like I did. I am 50 years old. What's your excuse. Just like your generation. Its everyone else's fault except your own. Guess when you have a President that blames everyone else then why not do the same.
PS Ashp Quit making excuses for your lack of finding a job. Just today there where those company's who went to NYC to hire Occupiers and they ran from the job fair that came to them. Hmm makes me wonder what you guys really want. I believe its just Socialism and handouts you all want.
the right has just on this post for example tried to impede on MY right as a citizen to express my beliefs. hypocrisy at its finest. you all never cease to amaze me. you value "liberty and freedom" but collapse almost every comment on here that is contrasted to yours. Your president bush put the patriot act into play. what has obama done that is even close to that level of impeding on your rights????eagerly awaiting response. still waiting about how im supposed to get off my lazy — and get a job when i can't get hired because of my credit that became bad because of my divorce and identity theft.... Thats what i thought. no actual solutions just complaints.
im not worried about grammer im posting a blog, not writing a paper. and yes i do excellent in school thanks
The people are pretty much sick ad tired of our government and the 1%ers robbing the people of their rights and their incomes.
The time is coming for a REVOLUTION in America, just as it is going on in Europe and other countries.
America is not immune to WAR. The people are going to do whatever necessary to even the playing field for when it comes to employment and decent salaries to live on.
REVOLUTION 2012, it's time to take back your country and your freedoms.
o and what kind of "companies finances" am i responsible for while stocking shelves at a grocery store. please enlighten me. did we all of a sudden lose a penial system and jail system for people who commit crimes in their jobs? if that is the case, quit complaining because these people, like me, will continue to not have a job and soak up the welfare because of a crime i haven't even commited yet. quit complaining then. why would desperate people want to lose their job by stealing merchandise while being surveillanced all the time? no argument thanks for playing
sword and pen: i believe you are showing your own ignorance in applying a few cases of protestors to the mass majority of protestors. most people want jobs. they want income. believe it or not, welfare and unemplyment doesn't pay that much. they want something they can be proud of. don't worry though, you also are a product of your generation just like i am. i can't wait till the baby boomers die off
congrats for being a college graduate. i guess no amount of education can make you a supporter of your fellow man that needs help. thats called having a heart...
and yes i will complain about being unemployed for a month... doesn't that just prove my point that WE WANT JOBS AND WE WANT THEM NOW! not so lazy sounding anymore?! o wait i thought i wanted a handout?hahaha ya ok. You are ok with the idea that you needed to work 2 jobs? we live in america, the richest nation in the world no one should be working two jobs just to make ends meet. the average 40 hour a week mcdonalds worker doesn't even make enough to support a single apt roof over their head. they put in the exact same hours as many americans and cant have a roof over their head?!! meawhile mcdonalds ceos are making record profits and making billions?! how is this right. The problem with your generation is that you've subscribed to the bull and we haven't. I refuse to believe in an america that 1% of the pop makes 40% of the wealth. i refuse to believe in an america thats middle class is shrinking more and more everyday. refuse to believe in an america that sticks up for the very people profiting in the billions off all of us and meanwhile refusing to hire people and pay them a living wage. sorry, i fight for fairness and equality. if that makes me liberal than i am proud to stand for humanity and to have a voice for those who are scared to.
Wikipedia describes May Day (International Wokers Day) in part as follows;
May Day has long been a focal point for demonstrations by various socialist, communist and anarchist groups.
And so it is in America...new name (Occupy)....same goals!
TheSwordNPen79s Generation got old and sold us all out. They were hippies that fought for peace then they got old and cynical. They joined the corporate armies and now they see new generations as problems, rather than their children. We are their children. TheSwordNPen and all of our Parents shipped our jobs to China to line their pockets and then they raised our tuition then sent us to school. We came home to no jobs and no chance at the American Dream. They dont care until they get a rock through their window. Well its time to make SwordNPen and all our parents care.
"About 300 musicians led a march of about 1,000 down Fifth Avenue to Union Square in Manhattan"
Well no wonder the musicians are out there. What kind of a good paying job do you have when you are a musician. Unless you are famous. Of course they would resent people who made better choices and now have money. These people need to start focusing on the real problem in this country. The problem is with our government. Our elected officials. They are the ones bailing out Wall Street, the banks and the car manufacturers. Our politicians are corrupt and making themselves rich while in office. They are as rich as the Corporation CEO's that Obama is pitting us against. Stop being stupid. These protestors should be sitting on the White House Lawn and in front of where the legislature sits in session. They all need to be tossed out, but watch out protestors, you might get audited by the IRS once you start actually protesting where you should be protesting. Obama wants us all to shut up and never disagree with him because, as a dictator and a communist, he knows best.
Alan static said send the banksters to jail! Then Sketer McClusky said, what for?
I'll tell you what for there Sketer,for bringing this country down, and taking control of it.Who the HELL do you think is running and ruining this pathetic country? The Politicians, Bugs Bunny,Daffy Duck? Who Sketer?
I'll tell you who! THE BANKSTERS,and their little teeny tiny sniveling puppet dirty politicians.That's Who!
What are you that blind? You can't see what these bank bastards have done or are doing to this country? Well open up your eyes and think again!
Yeah if it was possible THROW ALL THESE CORRUPT BANK BASTARDS IN JAIL! Every last one of them,along with their teeny, tiny, sniveling, dirty, politicians! Skeeter!
I'm all for what the Occupy Movement stands for, but I don't think they're going about getting their demands met when they break windows, cause violence, etc. This is NOT the way to get your point across....we are NOT urban terrorists and that seems to be what Occupy is becoming, sad to say. The Occupy Movement needs to get together, figure out what they are protesting, and then come to terms on a way to peacefully protest in a way that they are heard. Instead of "bad press," they need "good press." These people, in most part, are intelligent individuals, most are college graduates....why can't they use their intelligence to get something done in a non-violent way.
In view of the fact that such a demonstration has already been resolved upon by the American Federation of Labor at its convention of December 1888 in St. Louis for May 1, 1890, that day is accepted as the day for the international demonstration.
Kenn the Dem you forgot we did it first in 1888 8 hour day for 8 hours pay. France tried to take claim a few years later. Then Russia in 1904. Look into history further and you will find The international day for demonstration was started by US the USA
STOP GOP LIES
richardharrow;
"Sold you out", did they or could it be they grew up and realized the world didn't owe them a damn thing? You sound so much like the layabout stoned morons you now disrespect it's pathetic. Why don't you instead put all your energy into making something of yourself? New millionaires are created every day in this country, sadly, most are legal immigrants, because America's youth is under the misconception they are owed something and don['t need to apply themselves. Grow up and realize there is no such thing as a free lunch. Stop being a parasite and start adding to the economy.
The "anarcists" who infiltrated the Wall Street/May Day/Union driven protest group are nothing more than Domestic Terrorists.
Amazing, one guy interviewed on TV was asked why he "smashed" windows. He said he did it to show his anger towards "corporations". Meanwhile, tires were slashed and windows broken on "personal" vehicles near the same area.
These folks need about a $ 500,000 bail set, taken to court on terrorism charges, and sentenced to maximum jail time by a jury.
Dear OWS protesters and the 1%
LMAO at this whole thing!!
Get a job!!
Arrest the Bankers!!
We are the 99%!!
We the 1% make the 99% possible!!!!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Minorities (black Americans specifically, most, generally) have been living with these same conditions and complaints the OWS are protesting about since..... EVER ..... NOW YOU WANNA PROTEST????
I have no love for those who, when it effects someone else, doesn't give 2 bits, and when it effects them, the reaction is MY GOD, THIS IS CRIMINAL!!
OWS protesters = The "new" Black Folk. "Suck it up" as minorities were told to do. Feel what it's like to be on the bottom of society for a while.... Maybe then OWS can get it's act together..... and help EVERYONE.
As I know this comment is true, I know it will be collapsed. Dont' worry OWS we are with you but even though you don't like my comments, and our (generally "our") sentiments, you know I am telling the truth..................
From a Minority Leftie
I'm Just Sayin'......
nicodemus: america does owe me something. america owes everyone something. we owe our people healthcare, we owe them education, we owe them means to make a living, we owe them fairness and equality. we are the wealthiest nation in the world... you explain to me why the rich 1% that make their money off of the consumer and their workers that they underpay and overwork, deserve to make millions while their workers can barely afford to live paycheck to paycheck. Life is not fair, but here in america we are called the land of oppurtunity.. opportunity for what? to live to work and barely survive. you have america all wrong my friend. i am making something of myself, im getting a college education so that not only can i contribute to society, i can earn a decent living. your era spoke so much about ideals you seem to have lost. you have stuck up for the people that have run this country into the ground . corporations get billions more a year then the poor and your kind seems to forget that. why do billionares need funds to open a new wallmart on my tax dollar? hmmmm. they owe us jobs because they use this money from taxpayers to pay for projects and buildings they can afford to build themselves. do they owe us jobs? hell yes they do. when they accept funds from taxpayers, they owe us plenty. Even if they didn't, what is moral or ethical about CEO's making so much and their workers making so little. sometimes so little they can't even afford healthcare or healthy food. why do you think obesity is such an epidemic? unhealthy food is cheap! then obese people suck up money from insurance companies who then charge us all more. the problem seems quite simple to solve to me.
i also find it very ironic that the people that degrade my generation (20's to 27ish) say that we are all spoiled and lack personal responsibility, are the people that are parents of my generation. hilarious. keep subscribing...personal responsibility huh????laughable
Did the 3 super Losers dressed in costumes get arrested for pepper spraying people? They should have.
When Repub Convention took place in St Paul Mn few years back, Spy Police infilitrated groups and were actively trying to get people to do illegal stuff. How many were out there today?
OWS= The 60's Civil Rights Movement
The 1% will NEVER give you what you want until you PEACEFULLY force change. OWS may want to take a page from MLK, who took his page from MKG
Where is your peaceful boycotting of corporate "British Cloth"? Where are your Corporate"Bus Boycotts" and Corporate "Marches on Washington" Eh?
Get it together OWS, for all of us......
Good lord @ashp, you're making our entire generation look absolutely terrible.
I'm not going to go so far as to try and minimize your struggle, as believe me I understand the uphill journy of hunting for work, but come on, who made you so self-entitled to getting your dream job at the drop of a hat?
All I hear is "I'm too proud to do jobs that aren't what my degree is related to."
Suck it up princess, that's the trade-off. I graduated class of '09, and was LUCKY to have a job even tangentally related to my field after more than SIX MONTHS of searching.
My fellow classmates were not so fortunate: it's only now (3 years later) that maybe, a THIRD of them are transitioning into jobs related to what we all studied in college. Up until now, they've been working as receptionists, waiters/waitresses, secretaries, janitors, fast-food clerks, grocery baggers, painters, etc. etc. etc.
If you want to direct your self-entitled rage at anyone, point it toward the educational institution that sold you on the lie of getting a job with your degree when you graduated.
... and yes, contrary to what you think, you CAN live on your own, working full time, making minimum wage. Is it a pretty lifestyle? No. Can you afford any luxuries? No, probably none whatsoever, but it's absolutely possible. My friend works four part time, low paying jobs, pays off more than 1000 dollars of student loan debt a month, still makes rent, and still buys food.
If you want to make this a generational dispute, the only issue anyone should take with the generation that preceded us is that they instilled in us a sense of shame with working hard. There is no shame in flipping burgers at Mickey D's for 6 months, there is no shame sweating your ass off working landscaping for a summer, there is no shame changing oil, being a janitor, or working as a telemarketer.
I guarantee if you looked on craigslist right now, you would find all kinds of "miserable" jobs that involve either manual labor, or sales. They're jobs! Just about anyone who's been in the work force long enough will tell you that there comes a moment when you trade your pride for money, your "dignity" for dough, and self-entitlement for food.
Don't make it the country's problem that you were sold on a lie! Your college education isn't a job-ticket, it's just education, and it's sad here to see it nearly going to waste.
o no kdmatt you must have misread my posts. im in my 3rd year of college. iv applied to target, grocery stores, pets mart, best buy, att&t, jobs in customer service mostly. i don't have a degree. i am looking for a "menial" job right now. i have been a server for the past 4 years. i know about working common jobs. before you start to rant on people that are sticking up for our generation, you should read the posts.
and i live in fresno ca. average apts around here are 650-750 monthly and those are in not so nice areas which is very dangerous because i have a baby girl. but going with that... the average fast food employee makes minimum or at least starts that way and advancement is very minimal. going of that: $8 hourly times 40 hour weeks equals 1,280 before taxes which is around a little less then 1,000 take home weekly. every apt i have every applied to or lived in required a minimum of 3times the rent just to qualify. so no, you can't at least in fresno ca, without a lot of roomates. most of my friends either live with their parents or have at least two roomates. mind you that is a full time job...and it isn't easy...
End the political B.S.! Collapse all comments. Collapsing one side's views simply reflects the lack of ability to cope with an opposing view. Ignorance is bliss. This forum has become useless as both side are not present.
*monthly* sorry.
cm-on neocons say it....its the Unions Fault, gas is to high its the unions fault, wall st bailed out its the unions fault, George Bush let Bin Laden go its the unions fault, Romney went to live in France instead of being drafted for the Vietnam war its the unions fault, Banks charge exorbitant fees its the unions fault, cm-on everything that is wrong in your life its the unions fault,
and why does your friend have four jobs? not only is that taking jobs away from the rest of us..... isn't that also crazy that he has to have four jobs to earn a living? you actually prove my point thank you
Ah yes, violence and more violence from the "peaceful" OWS protesters.
Smash the windows of cars of innocent people who just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. Break windows, throw paint bombs and basically be nothing more than another mindless mob. What a great idea.
*sigh* And some people wonder why I think humanity is as stupid as it is childish. Go figure.
KDMatt,
Thanks for your above post 5.48. At least somebody else gets it. Kudos to you.
We need to change the way government works.
1. Put them on a budget.
2. All income earners pay the same rate of taxes (I like 10%) No deductions. this includes income from small business (mom and pop type)
3 No taxes on business, for sales, non management workers, but they must pay taxes on excutive wages, foreign wages, property taxes. This would provide them with incentive to move companies (jobs) here.
4 Change Social securty to a 401K type system, where every worker contrubites to their own fund, that is controled by them, (no government raiding of the funds). older and current ones would be granfathered in.
5 Get the Govenment out of unemployment arena. Business must set aside 6 months of company wages that can not be raided by them or Government set aside fo unemployment payments.
6. Let bad companies go bankrupt, Yes this includes GM and Solindra.
7 No lobbing Congress. or collecting funds from Congress (businesses)
8 People who invest in companies should not be taxed for that money, but if they loose it they can not deduct it either. Say you invest 10K in a business, the first 10K you recieve from it will be tax free, the rest afterwards would be taxed (no double taxation).
9. The same goes for local governments, Cap at 5% of either income or sales tax or combo not to exceed 5%. total.
Just some ideas.
and in my posts im sticking up for the common man that holds these jobs. i believe no one should have to work four jobs! we gear everyone towards college in this society but some people don't want to go and college isn't for everyone. why can't people that work at these jobs make at least a little more then they do? the people that own these corporations make so much, why can't their workers who work full time support themselves. you admitted yourself that your friend has to work four jobs. thats insane! why?!
@ashp
Fine fine fine, I was a bit hasty, didn't read carefuly, and made some assumptions, my bad then on those points.
My message should have been broader anyway, as you have no idea how far-reaching the mentality of "I have a degree, why don't I have a job now?" extends ... My own alma mater was notoriously bad for selling all of us on the idea of landing great jobs with our degrees, and, for most people, it just never came to fruition. It makes me wonder how much of this Occupy nonsense could have beem minimized if a lot of the young people in those groups had been told, straight-off, that their degrees wouldn't get them good jobs.
All the same, I don't think the world owes you a favor.
Some people have good luck, and some people have bad luck.
Some people make smart decisions, and some people make poor ones.
This is America, the land of equal opportunity, not the land of equal outcomes.
While your situation is lamentable, and truly my heart does go out to you, it's not America's fault if you can't get roommates together to make an apartment cheaper. It's not Wall Street's fault if apartment managers check your wages (which is probably pretty smart of them to do). While, yeah, it sucks that some people are better off than you, and that the 1% was graced with more opportunities than you, that's just the luck of the draw! Besides, if you're only in your 3rd year of school, you can't be more than, what 21? Your student loans aren't even a factor yet, as they're still completely deferred. Just wait until the real world really starts to hit you.
I was unlucky enough to have a lot of really bizarre, and serious illnesses during the last 3 or 4 years, all of which threatened to put me into some pretty serious debt, to the point where I had debt-collectors coming after me, tarnishing my credit (multiple CT Scans are pretty damn spendy, let me tell you), but instead of dwelling on how upset I was that my funding was wiped out, or that I was living at home, I just sucked up my pride, tightened up my bootstraps and soldiered on.
What you dwell on becomes more powerful in your life. Getting upset about something you can't control doesn't make it better. It's only when you take action that you can see improvement. If other people are getting hired, and you're not, think about what you could be doing wrong. There is a LOT to know about resumes, job applications, and cover letters that no college coursework will ever teach you. There is probably even a job center at your school, use it!
You can't get mad and start blaming people.
America doesn't owe you anything just because you say it does. Contrary to what you, and many others (like me) were told in preschool, you are not a special snowflake. Nobody gets to have special privileges just because they exist. Some people have to work harder than others, either because of bad luck or bad decisions, and that's just how it is.
(Also, on that note, the brokers who give themselves ulcers by working on Wall Street every day probably have some of the hardest jobs on the planet, just sayin)
Is that fair? No, not really, but if anyone ever told you as a kid that "Life's not fair," well, this is what they were talking about.
Best of luck to you Ash.
LMAO @ Ashp and all who think I am some BabyBoomer and some old hippie. Excuse me you idiotic dip @!$%#s. I am the same age as the loser you voted into office who never had a real job himself. The same generation that watched the raging Vietnam war or excuse me Police action. I also am that child who watched for years the civil rights movement make its inroads and here we are today still divided over simple civil rights. For your information I don't get my news from either the liberal leaning CNN or Conservative mouth piece called Fox. I actually do my own research. Ashp you need to quit trying to do math here your making yourself look bad. $8 a week at 40 hours a week is $320 a week not a $1000. It is also a total of $1376 a month when you factor 52 weeks in a year therefore 4.3 weeks in a month.
BTW to address the statement that I personally sent jobs overseas to China. You are WRONG, you don't know me and you don't even know what I believe. I will say this to your young gun butt. It was the Labor Unions, Federal Govt. with their constricting regulations, EPA, frenzied frantic save the spotted owls environmentalists who sent those jobs overseas. When a business needs to make a Profit and by the way Profit is not a dirty word. It is what pays for wages, Research and Development of Newer Products, better manufacturing ways, etc. and yes top executives pay which I don't agree with them getting the amount they get. These businesses have to find more profitable ways to do business. Maybe they don't teach this any longer in the University's Business Schools. I guess not since I ran a business and never stepped foot in a College to have my common sense removed. When other nations like India and China are not even on the same playing field as US Manufacturers. Those that are left. FYI General Motors and Chrysler who Obama wants to tout as his greatest achievement in the economy. Well guess what, they manufacture more vehicles overseas than the Japenese and Korean Automakers who are building vehicles in the South with non union workers who ARE VERY HAPPY!
Also, Ash, on a final note, America doesn't 'gear' people toward college.
Less than half of our population ever gets a four year degree, to say nothing of those going higher.
The people who want to enter the work force right away either go into the military, or they go to technical school. They're both cheaper options that are, pretty much guaranteed to get you good paying work.
As for my friend? SHE works four jobs. She took one of them because it's related to her degree and will give her work experience, while the others are there to cover for all of the hours she's NOT getting full time.
As for her student loan payments? I hate to say it, but that's probably her fault. She took on private loans to pay for college instead of government subsidized ones, which was not, by any means, a smart decision. Now she's paying for it, literally.
Peace.
25 in 5 days actually. iv worked common jobs since 17. finally one day i decided i couldn't work in dead end jobs anymore and now im back at school. my parents were struggling middle class. i had no help with school or even a place to live since i was 18 since i was the black sheep of the family. i believe if we have a problem with govt, we change it. thats america. i want to spread awarness about a issue that seems to be comming to light without my interference which is the corrupt corporate america that the govt allows to screw over the population. i want to let people know about corporate welfare. trust me i have plenty of time to check sources online about key issues while filling out aps! the point is that we as people have or supposedly have the right to change incongruencies withing the system. thats what im trying to do. it looks like maybe you have lost hope that america is fair. i haven't yet. maybe in a couple years, but for know i believe we can empower the common man, it just takes numbers. im a psych major with hopes of teaching. i found what im good at. i think every citizen is special and unique and has something to bring to the table. in america we have the resources to make this reality. it might sound idealistic but i think thats better then the alternative.
Just checking in.....
Wooooo!! This is fun!! Like Sittin' on the back porch and listening to your neighbors argue!!!! Go OWS!! Go 1%!!
Can we turn this into a TV show?? I would watch daily@"Why should I be the new minority?", should be the title!!!
WooHooooo!!!
KDMatt you make some great points. Your exactly right on. Just because your born in the USA does not mean your owed a job, education, health insurance, house, car, food etc. These where not given to us at birth other wise we would of been holding all these items when we came into this world. Yet even our creator saw it fit to allow us to make our own way in this thing called "LIFE". I can sit here and blame others for my being born into a divorced family with an alcoholic step father who abused my mother. I could sit here and say that because my mom had to use Welfare when we where children to make it was screwed. My brother Mark and I would go Frog gigging and trout fishing to just have meat on the table. I could complain that my mom had to go without so us boys had food. In fact I can say this, all those earlier challenges in my life made me who I am today. I had to work in the fruit fields at the age of 8 years old. I had my first paper route here in Portland Oregon when I was 11 years old. I ran my own landscaping business in California at the young age of 13 years old. My last job I worked for over 16 years till the economy turned down. Yet even now I don't blame others. My brothers all turned out great, they own their own business's and have homes that went in the tank too. Yet we learned early in life that you have to earn your way in this life. No one owes you a dime. That said, yes my youngest brother just opened a new business and I will soon be working with him. So yes we know how to create our jobs. Do you? I mean all you readers out there. You see Ashp you won't get sympathy from me, yes I know how hard it is out there and it hurts my heart to see all the hurting. Yet its not the Corporations of America who failed you. Its the Politicians who make the rules that did it to you all. You want to blame someone then get rid of these leaches in the halls of Congress and the Senate, who never suffered one iota during this economic downturn. Even President Obama thinks its cool to keep golfing and vacationing when all of America is hurting. Now do you see the insensitivity?
america gears people to college. since elementary school it has been drilled into my generations heads. your statistics are for graduates, not including those who tried college out which will greatly increase those statistics. at my college right now only 52% go on to a bachelors but many many more people attend and drop out. we are talking about thousands and thousands a year that attend this university. my graduating class alone has 3 thousand people in it. graduation rates dont determine whether or not we are geared towards college. look at our high school system. do you remember the sats and acts? i do.what about ap and honors courses. i was in many of those. this shows also that we do gear people towards college. you don't have to take them but many do. also look at the percentage of growth of how many people in society are attending university compared to previous generations. not graduation but attendence.
@TheSwordNPen79
One of the best comments I have seen on this post yet, except..... It is Corporations who have always run the Politics in this country....
I'm Just Sayin'.....
All you need to do is vote for O'bama, and it will be real before you know it!
I'm Ok with the protesters.
However, the blacked out thugs with masks that beat up cameramen, those SOB's need to get thumped and bloodied like a red headed step child in the back room.
@ashp
I have been reading through your comments and it seems you are the victim of the "You say this, but in reality, it's this!!" syndrome.
Oh well..... Most of us learn this lesson by 18-20...
My daughter still complains that she is having trouble getting a good job because when she walks into an interview, as she expects to be judged on her skills....... while the interviewer is looking at the tattoos on her arm....
Lesson learned, hopefully.....
Just Reading - edited re-post the post way above collapsed for use of "bloopers"?
TruePatriot-445959 (among others) - I read a number of your posts I would not disagree with much if any of what I did read very well said I think you answered with reality based answers a rarity.
The one over-riding issue of the most importance...morally just and FAIR: I demand these loafers as Romney and the rest of the free loaders paying between 12% and 17% on passive income the 1% and that includes the record reported earnings of these individuals if truly an individual, the corporations pay (these 1% too) in taxes the rate as I do on my marginal income: the rates being 35% federal and 10% state.
No more loopholes as the ones Romney uses to escape being taxed at the same rate I do plus hiding his money in numerous off-shore and his Swiss accounts...he is a fraud" the etch a sketch man". Made many millions killing American jobs...he wont release his finances as Obama yet wants to rule America..he won't reveal his stake and the worth of his ownership of Bain but why? He is whatever the situation calls for...the situation calls for finally shared sacrifice and that means fair and balanced taxation pay your taxes at the same rate I do.
Just approve what the vast majority of Americans want which is for the loopholes that allow individual as Romney to pay at or less than 17% to be amended so they pay what the middle class pays. I don't want to hear of job creators and how wonderful people they are and how the country needs them because none of the worlds greatest corporations would come to America nor could do the job - do you believe that?
Good Night and Good Luck - Make law a fair version of "The Buffet Rule" - Billionaires and Millionaires for America...."The Real Americans".....
@TheSwordnPen - as you probably know Americas corporations are enjoying record profits and the median (average) income has declined over the last twelve years. The spread between management in general and the "floor worker" is $70 to $1 give or take in The United States and in Japan somewhere along the lines of 6 to 1. We could go on to many westernized industrialized nations allies and not one comes close to our disparity here. Excepting despotic nepotistic corporate cronyism run-wild dysfunctional nation states is any comparison to be found in how the worker is viewed by the management and the correlative data of Americas Corporations management pay and the workers pay comparable (in other words it is about $60 to $1 or more).
Now all is needed is to buy the elections by buying just enough "elected" people's representatives and on to compromise the supreme court judges just enough and we know the names the private jets the elite judges use for get aways to the exotic vacations spots (paid for by Special Interests...where is your special interest advocate? All paid by corporate America and our tax dollars, they frequent nice places but of course they are not biased not swayed in all their court decisions as for example the "United Citizens" case...yes a shining example for the world to see but lets ignore this radical real radical behavior that changes the whole country even the world and concentrate on protesters...ows protesters instigate a police riot.
The tourist asks what are Canadians to think of America haha buddy what that is about is what many millions upon millions feel about America...get the hint?
You ask why are they protesting? Do you really have to ask? One marker is student debt is soon to hit one Trillion dollars and climbing hahaha good luck with your trickle down thing how is it working for ya now? Do you the players and how this money scam started the million and hundreds of millions in the education for profit business? The middle class suckered again into a money scam that makes many millions for so few and of course the fanatics want to abolish The Education Department and release the tax payers money to state run education systems (run by relegulous bigots) bwaaaahahahaha lol too much eh we tried that for over a hundred years the question of very affordable higher education as part of a super number one in the worlds history of rich nations we could afford to make available a higher education based on ability to pay to all...I thought that was settled but the keepers of the future where bought off and so that dream went the way of clean water (privatize and create fresh water barons)...hum
You Betcha!!!! Ride em' Cowboy yahooo the Mary-berry Machiavellians are in town.
Kenn the Dem -- Nothing like right-wing cherry picking. There was an entire article earlier today about the history of May Day. Perhaps you'll read it?
i have no idea what you mean. and what does tatoos have to do with work performance? tatoos are very mainstream these days. i hope employers don't discriminate on that anymore.
You can all try to convince God that you are right soon enough and I think you will be in for the shock of your lives when Jesus (Liberal) looks at you and shakes his head and says. What part of do unto others did you find confusing? You are good little peasants... Your reward. You get to crackle in hell with your money and your T bags. I wish you well but I know you are on a one way train to No...
ok im done for now... its been fun. my solution through the rhetoric that pissed so many off today: believe in our freedoms, that we can change things. look up corporate welfare, black water, halliburton, dick chaney, patriot act, new world order, tax exemptions for the rich, corporate profits vs. layoffs. employment practices that are discriminatory but still legal. im sure if you all took the time to get super educated on how our govt looks the other way, and often times how corporations work side by side with the govt. you will see how corrupt everything is.vote people in that want to regulate buisness and seperate corporate america from govt. greed knows no bounds. this is becoming land of the greedy. peace.
Oh boy......
"We're trying to find new, positive community-building ways to engage and protest and be a part of the burgeoning civil dialogue about what this country should be doing,"
"KING reported numerous tires slashed and large amounts of glass on the ground from vehicles and buildings, including the federal courthouse, smashed by protesters."
There seems to be a disconnect between the rhetoric and the reality - sort of reminds me of Obama.
I can see why Obama and the Democrats, along with MoveOn (George Soros) are 'courting' them.
People here have learned a lot form the third world countries—just cover your face do as you please and then blend back into the crowds—notice the spelling of some of the names who are protesting—Yep we are doing what they do in all third world countries—wonder why that is—get a job many have commented, well for those fools who say this, it's obvious that they have missed something—like why work if the government will support you—where is your next check coming from—for a lot of US people money comes from State and Federal government in the form of public assistance, welfare and community support programs all meant to assist those who don't like to get out of bed and work, and of course the more illegal the more important your rights are—spare me the hard luck stories, I have watched the abuse way too long to understand the stupidly of the elected scum in government--too bad the writing has been on the walls for years and what you are seeing now is a continuation of things to come, but a little worse over time..
@TruePatriot re#5.70: No didn't read it...didn't have to...I'm aware of the other history behind May Day.
What I have read is interviews with Occupiers, statements by Occupiers, and news descriptions of Occupiers complete with pictures of their signs, and I'll restate my comment;
May Day has long been a focal point for demonstrations by various socialist, communist and anarchist groups.
...and so it is here in the US...by the name of Occupy...call it Cherry Picking if you wish, but this shoe fits!
Ash, just another note, even though you said you were done. My spouse worked for a company for over a decade. Despite the fact that he headed the most productive team in the entire company, and that they never slipped a date on a single product, his entire team was laid off and the jobs moved to Asia because it was cheaper. He was out of work for a year and spent at least forty hours per week looking for work during that time. This was despite his being willing to take a lower level position, move to another industry, or move across the country. He also took a number of certification classes to improve his marketability and constantly networked with friends and contacts. He already had two masters degrees including an MBA. It's tough out there looking for work, even for someone who is very qualified. My husband had several managers tell him he was qualified for THEIR jobs, but he still did not get the position. You don't always know exactly what an employer wants, and some of it has to do with how you present yourself or what your resume looks like-there's almost an art to it. We learned all of this over time.
No one is entitled to anything. If you were told that, someone lied to you. Most people have to work hard for what they have. My parents' generation worked hard, and their parents worked hard for what they had. For some reason, however, my generation-the baby boomers-has passed on the idea that people don't have to work for things. Maybe our parents didn't want us to work as hard as they did-I don't know. But don't believe it for a minute. And people have never had equal amounts of wealth, not even in supposedly "equal" societies. I'm not saying that it's okay for anyone to suffer deprivation; I'm just saying that equality of wealth is not something that has ever really existed except when everyone was equally poor. Those who really get off on all of that and focus on different "classes" of people like the 1% and the 99% and how there has to be some kind of struggle between them begin to sound an awful lot like Karl Marx in the Communist Manifesto. Surely some of you guys have read it and know what I mean.
As others have said, life isn't fair. Sorry. Some people have wonderful, loving parents. I had an abusive, alcoholic dad and a mother who was simply trying to survive; however, I found faith in God at a young age and that gave me a lot of strength. I don't regret it because I am a stronger person now and I am able to help others because of what I have been through. You can whine about what you feel you are entitled to-I could complain forever about how I was entitled to better parents but it would never have changed anything-or you can make the most of life. It's up to you.
IA. ScooterTramp, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
That's pretty funny, even though you are most likely a reregistration, Sally is quoting what other people said and giving her reasons for suspending them. Thanks for the laugh anyways.
Don't worry, you're not the first person to make a mistake. I've made more than my share. We all get behind a keyboard and we are suddenly all geniuses and knowledgable about everything.
@bohn - like how the gov't and corporations work!
FBI provocateur ensnares Cleveland protesters in “bomb plot”
By Bill Van Auken
3 May 2012
Federal authorities Tuesday, May 1, charged five men described as “anarchists” with plotting to blow up a bridge linking two Cleveland, Ohio suburbs. The charges were the culmination of a six-month long sting operation involving a paid confidential informant that ended with undercover FBI operatives supplying the five with fake explosives and then arresting them.
An affidavit presented by the FBI to secure warrants for the arrests claims that the case grew out of a decision of the agency’s Cleveland office to send their informant into an Occupy Cleveland demonstration last October to investigate a “report of potential criminal activity and threats involving anarchists.”
The so-called “terrorist plot” traces its origins to this FBI fishing expedition and, as the affidavit makes clear, would never have existed outside of the agency’s informant and undercover operatives egging on the five defendants, organizing their activities and supplying them with the fake explosives.
The men arrested were identified as Brandon Baxter, 20, described by police as homeless, Douglas Wright, 26, Connor Stevens, 20, Joshua Stafford, 23 and Anthony Hayne, 35. All but Wright, who was said to be from Indianapolis, were from Cleveland or surrounding suburbs.
A report by a local television station, WKYC, suggested that some of the men had mental problems. It cited a police report from February that Baxter had “jumped in front of a car in the middle of the night and told the driver to kill me.”
Stafford’s mother described her son as someone who has “been troubled since he’s been young, been in and out of hospitals, prisons, jails. He’s just been a troubled soul since he’s been born.”
In its description of the Confidential Human Source, or informant, who has yet to be identified, the FBI affidavit states that he, or she, “has a criminal record including one conviction for possession of cocaine in 1990, one conviction for robbery in 1991, and four convictions for passing bad checks between 1991 and 2011.” The informant was paid $5,750 for his services and $550 for expenses.
This is a typical profile for the informers used by the FBI. They are individuals facing jail for criminal offenses who are offered leniency and cash in return for entrapping others in manufactured conspiracies. Such was the case with Shahed Hussain, a failed Pakistani immigrant businessman who was convicted of fraud and then asked to become an informer, trawling New York state’s Muslim immigrant communities and mosques for individuals who could be lured into conspiracies of the FBI’s invention. This produced two major “terrorist plots,” one in Albany involving alleged money laundering for purchase of a non-existent stinger missile, and one in Newburgh that centered on four black American Muslims, paid by and acting under the instructions of the informant, planting fake explosives at synagogues...
…At one point, the affidavit’s version of the recording transcripts shows the informant pressing Baxter that decisions must be made because they “are not that far out from the operation, time-wise,” and Baxter replying that he “was just throwing around ideas and does not know exactly what they should do.”
This type of exchange is repeated in the course of the affidavit, indicating that the informant was the driving force in the so-called conspiracy, pressing the hapless “anarchists” to carry out actions that they had neither the inclination nor the ability to do on their own. Indeed, it is not clear whether the five even had access to a car, as the informant is repeatedly reported as driving them to the meetings with the undercovers, to the site of the bridge and elsewhere…
…The government’s purpose in staging these operations in relation to Muslims in the US is clear. They are designed to lend substance to the so-called war on terror, justifying wars of aggression abroad and increased surveillance and repression within the US itself in the name of “keeping Americans safe” from a supposedly ubiquitous threat of Al Qaeda attack.
What is the government’s aim in now turning these same methods against alleged anarchists expressing hostility to corporate America?
After the five men were arraigned in federal court in shackles and leg irons Tuesday afternoon, US Attorney Steven Dettelbach told a press conference that, “This case demonstrates that the threat we face is a diverse one; that terrorism can come in many hues and from many homelands.”
This is a warning. Under conditions of protracted economic crisis and growing social unrest, the government is preparing to use the police state methods it developed in the “war on terror” to intimidate and suppress any challenge to the rule of the corporations and the financial elite in America. Judging from the government’s own affidavit, the entrapment of the hapless “anarchists” in Cleveland is a test run of this strategy.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2012/may2012/clev-m03.shtml
gimmie.gimmie,gimmie,...
be good "pets" now and dont worry ...the NAACP, Unions, DNC, Move on, etc.; are all here to help YOU........whatta bunch of lemmings.........
Now that they're outside, maybe their parents can fumigate their basements. May Day is the appropriate day for commuinists and anarchists to get off their lazy azzes and demand tat working taxpayers pay more.
I guess the PC term for living in your parents' basement is now "hibernating." :)
Actually, I think it should be called "Plotting":
The FBI announced today that they arrested five “anarchists”
In view of the fact that such a demonstration has already been resolved upon by the American Federation of Labor at its convention of December 1888 in St. Louis for May 1, 1890, that day is accepted as the day for the international demonstration.
I was going to go join the protests, but it's the first of the month. Gotta wait around for my benefits check!
Dear Obama lies you must be under the impression that Mayday is some kind of Communist holiday to celebrate the fight against capitalism. Mayday is the international day of protest started right hear in the good old USA in 1888.
Karl Rove was quoted as saying that when people started becoming mildly successfull they started voting republican...unless they were too educated. Let me try to educate some about what these protests are actually all about. Real wages in this country adjusted for inflation have remained roughly the same for 30years. The longest period of wage stagnation in our countries history. The only segment of our population that has seen real wealth increase is.....wait a second you know this one......thats right you guessed it...the wealthiest 10 percent! So no wonder the people are a little irritated they havn"t had a raise in 30 years!
Hey Peanut Gallery- Its still called loser. When are you gonna be a big boy and move out in the real world? Hibernator alert.
Megan, save your breath. The only thing an idiot wants to know is where the rest of the idiots are so they can seek validation of their idiotic ideologies. It's like trying to explain colors to a colorblind person. They won't get it no matter how profoundly logical you explain it. Stuck in mud and going nowhere fast. Let's just give them a reason to piss and moan for four more years. :)
What do you mean WORKING taxpayers. That's EXACTLY what OWS is about - the steady EROSION of GOOD paying jobs. Unless you're part of the backstabbing 1% - thses people are fighting for YOU and ME!!!
@TruePatriot re#5.70: No didn't read it...didn't have to...I'm aware of the other history behind May Day.
What I have read is interviews with Occupiers, statements by Occupiers, and news descriptions of Occupiers complete with pictures of their signs, and I'll restate my comment;
May Day has long been a focal point for demonstrations by various socialist, communist and anarchist groups.
...and so it is here in the US...by the name of Occupy...call it Cherry Picking if you wish, but this shoe fits!
Repost from collapsed thread #5 (why was that collapsed?)
Really, Megan, no raises for 30 years?
...hmmm...
30 years ago (1982) I was making about $5 / hour, which was above minimum wage.
Fast-forward to 2012 and I'm making about 10x that much per hour.
I guess the ones who have not seen a raise in 30 years are the same one who sat on their lazy rears wanting free hand-outs instead of bettering their lives through self-motivation & individual accountability.
...must be easier for you to blame everyone else for your self-imposed piss-poor existence.
You seem to forget, in life, we make & create our own prisons - enjoy the one you have built for yourself.
These Occupy protests don't seem to be going away- the violence also seems to escalate more & more as time goes on. Maybe scenes of worse things yet to come?
Damaging public and private property was never part of May Day demonstrations. Many of these guys are anarchists and hooligans sailing under the flag of social justice. I find it despiccable that people who are serious about change tolerate these anti-social elements. If I cannot walk in the streets of this country unmolested, I have only one recourse : call for more stringent police action ! The communist party of the usa supports the occupy movement. Are they using these hooligans for their own purpose ? Think, people , think.
Is there a national day for the nation's police force ? There isn't ? Why not ? They stand between us and turmoil and should get some recognition for that.
I will never understand the lunacy of this people, they should be just proud for just being Americans where you can still be stupid without getting bllets for being stupid unlike in other countries that you get killed just because. no question ask. please don't destroy your own country because you are also destroying your own life within. civility is the key for Success.
May day?? so the entire world got a holiday because of Chicago? Way to go, Chicago! Keep up the good work.
I will never understand the lunacy of this people, they should be just proud for just being Americans where you can still be stupid without getting bllets for being stupid unlike in other countries that you get killed just because. no question ask. please don't destroy your own country because you are also destroying your own life within. the more civil people are, the less government there is. I do not need any mama/papa government to take care of me. by working hard and smart I know I can make it. and by being civil I know my life is be better.
May day when all rich and also lazy conservatives chose their day to be burned in all of thick of them concentration Camp. You are Rich Corporation Men will be burned in Your Hell that you build to all of US ! ! ! Hey you, legal robbers ! Go to a good school
To study about a communism, but not use your " hear" if you are "deaf". Your "CAPITAL" is OVER. 1st May is much better than
Any other Holidays . It should be day when all rich robbers pay 100 % to all other people in our World ! You are lazy rich safe your comment in your ugly smell underpants! Freedom to Liberty. Burzua should be end by their suicide bomb to them self !
@out in the woods
OWS made the mistake of welcoming everyone in with open arms. Now many of the rational people who were there in the beginning have left and the fruitcakes represent an ever increasing percentage of the movement which of course drives even more of the sane people away. Soon the nut jobs will be in the majority as we are already starting to see in some cities.
HEY Scooter-4083932 i am quite capable of fending for myself I dont need a bunch of dead beat losers claiming the fight in my name. They are most likely not part of the 99% but rather the lower 25%. they are union wannabes over paid and under performing.
I'm an anarchist...but I don't believe in violence to achieve a non-coercive society without a state (monopolized and coerced government, as opposed to non-geographic voluntary contractual government)...because I'm LOGICAL.
Only "left" anarchists do this nonsense. Too much Marx, not enough Bakunin and Kropotkin...or Tucker, Warren, Thoreau, and Spooner for that matter.
They fail to notice that Marx wanted to get to anarchy via totalitarianism. That's about as logical as wanting to shrink the government to make it larger. Derrrrr, Herp Derp.
@Backcountry: Those rational one's who are left must RAT OUT the fruitcakes if they wish to save their movement...time is running out!
If you commit violent criminal actions against innocent civilians and destroy public and private property, you are not a protestor, you are a criminal, and you belong in jail. Sorry, but the May Day violence means the Occupy Nowhere movement has officially jumped the shark !!
I originally supported the protests of the Horse $h*t that went on on Wall Street the past decade, I even believe those protests should have begun in 2008 or '09, but the "movement" left me when it spread and became pointedly anti-democratic and anti-capitalist.
Slashed Tires, broken windows, bricks and pipes dropping down into crowds of people from rooftops.
OWS sounds about as "Peace loving" as the Muslim religion.
Scooter, OWS doesn't represent me. Not at all. When they were simply protesting/demonstrating, I supported their right to do so. With all the violence associated with them today, I want absolutely nothing to do with them.
The more they engage in criminal actions, the more the so called "99%" will back away from them.
The government must learn: Force begets force. The more violent the establishment, the more violent the protesters. In this instance, Occupy is doing what the establishment is forcing them to do. An eye for an eye!
In 1886, in Chicago, labor activists were killed in a tragedy known as the Haymarket Massacre, giving the entire world a holiday to this day.
Chicago...my kind of town...
Janine is 100% right, i support anyone to go out and protest. It's what seperates us, the freedom to do so. But when people resort to violence it turns people off in a big way and actually hurts the cause. No cause is worth violence in the streets. We have a system to get things done, although not perfect, it is about as good as one can get. I am a union member, but you can rally for unions with violence and i am done with you.
Think of the lady in Afghanistan that was beaten for having a cell phone. And was going to be put to death for it before she escaped. And thats in todays time, not the past of the Taliban.
Thank you BigATC. From what I can see, more and more of the Supposed 99% are moving away from OWS. They don't want to be a part of the violence they are creating.
Artbydanl, do you honestly believe that the government is FORCING the OWS into violence? You sound like much of the "entitlement" generation who believe the world owes them a living. It's always someone elses fault when THEY do something stupid.
The group needs some national organization. A Firm platform. In years past protests were held for a particular forum. Whether it was civil rights, or our own protests against England for our freedoms. The true leaders like Martin Luther King or John Hancock protested in non violent ways. From the Boston Tea party (which, as you who remember your American History may recall that NO theft was allowed or damage was done to any property other than the tea itself) to the March on Birmingham violence was never a part of it.
Today they just look like an angry mob damaging public and private property, disrupting others trying to go on with their own business.
I am no fan of the current administration. From what is happening now Obama and his supporters need to distance themselves from the OWS or else completely lose any chance they have of winning in the fall.
This "movement" would be nothing if it wasn't for all the free publicity and promotion that it gets from the leftist Obama-worshippers in the media. And of course, there is no commentary on how they selected the most important communist "holiday" to try to disrupt the people who actually produce in this country.
OWS is and always has been nothing more than a democrat/union created distraction to draw peoples' attention away from the complete and utter failure that this president is.
Is not !!
nanny nanny poo-poo!!!!!
Right on. These morons are preventing the people they "support" from getting to their jobs. It's always "give me what you've got" from these people. They should move out of their parent's basement, go out and get a job and see what it's like to have some "occupiers" prevent them from earning their pay. But it's easier for them to sponge off mommy or the public.
Rationalthinker, I agree with you the President is a failure. However, I believe the occupy movement is bringing attention to this fact not distracting from it. Every day they protest it puts light on him and his government.
I disagree, Julia. Instead of talking about Obama's outrageous and irresponsible spending of money we don't have, our attention is constantly being directed by this democrat administration and the media (but I repeat myself) towards "income inequity" (aka attacking the producers in society), followed by a push for wealth redistribution to the non-producers.
Actually, the Occupy movement does not rely on the traditional media like the now-defunct Tea Party "movement" did. It's generally younger, more tech savvy people, and they are organizing through the internet, Facebook and Twitter.
You do realize where you are and what MSN is don't you?
All the easier to track down and stop additional terrorists after they try to blow up bridges.
Weaselyone,
We get it. You think they are terrorists who belong to OWS. .....yawn
Clotho, do you want to know the main difference between Tea Party protests and Occupy protests? Tea Party protests are organized and peaceful. Occupy protests always end up violent. Also, Tea Party protesters smell a lot better than the liberal protesters.
Clotho - the Tea Party is not "defunct" as you put it. It is still very strong. The difference is that its principles have been adopted by more of the main stream Republicans....because, unlike OWS, they have a clear, concise objective: push government to limit spending, shrink the debt, and stop relying on MORE taxes to increase government's reach.
Occupy in the more "defunct" of the two....mainly because Occupy has failed to identify a clear, singular objective.......unless of course you consider "give us free stuff" an objective.
Man... if you are going to protest... make it look like you are doing it for a reason... make it look like you are organized in some way... and please... stop breaking windows....
I mean... little kids... (break windows)... LOL...!!!
If they were really serious and had some balls... and if they were organized in some slight way... they would take their 150K people, and storm those thirty or forty cops....! Forget breaking windows... that's for kids...LOL...!!!
This ..."Bowel Movement"... is a joke... they have ..."seasons"... in which they protest... they protest in only good weather... they are in complete disarray when they do it, and they even name their little protests...
And if you are going to be disruptive... do it with some sort of style, do it in ways that the government won't be ready for... in ways that the government isn't going to have the upper hand in the outcome of it.... geeeez... it's the twenty first century and we're watching pygmies walking down a street into pepper spray and rubber bullets... and then retreating.... wow......!
ROTFLMAO...!!!!
When are they going to earn that breaking windows and disrupting businesses is not called a peaceful demonstration. I will not support their cause if they insist on acting like hooligans. Has anybody figured out what their message is? OK a small portion of the population has most of the money, what do they propose to correct that? I would like it to be corrected, but I'm not going to burst your car window to get your attention. Grow up protesters, come up with a plan (first get a job) work with your law-makers to get the justice you seek.
Just pay for the appropriate permits, obey all laws, and no vandalism.
like thats going to happen..........
You're right......LMAO.......and then they wonder why the police are sent after them.
1 Hiram - Too late:
May Day Eve Quickly Turns Ugly In San Francisco
"Various witness accounts say a group of between 50 and 100 people moved down
Valencia St. smashing windows, throwing paint balls, and even attacking an unsuspecting police station."
http://news.yahoo.com/may-day-eve-quickly-turns-ugly-san-francisco-091023433.html
Democrats and Occupy - two messes that America will clean up in November.
They ARE creating Hippie Control jobs. ;)
Didn't take long.......damn I had my money on the fools in NYC for the first arrest!!!!!
No pooping in the streets?
And THIS, and THIS
The problem is that protesters stop commerce for those just trying to make a living. The mega rich are fine, and the poor are taken care of. The middle is still believing that working hard will someday make you rich or at least keep the food on the table. The trouble will come to a boil, when too many are on the government dole and nobody wants to work hard anymore which is getting pretty darn close to being the norm.
MESSAGE TO THE ..."99%".... and to ..."Max"...
Stop feeding the..."1%"... stop giving it to the..."1%"....
If you want something to go away... if you want something to stop.... you starve it... you ignore it... you stop giving it what it needs to sustain...!!!!
Now... if only 300 million people in this country would turn on some brain cells and actually do this.... instead of whining and complaining about it...!
There isn't a military presence in this country or a viable police presence to stop 300 million people from revolting against the government and to oust the criminal element that occupies the existing government now...!
This country is ripe for a revolution... it is so vulnerable right now it is pathetic that it isn't happening...!
obey the laws and no vandalism i agree with. but no one should need a permit to protest in this country. its everyone's right, no matter what you believe in.
I have to admit I have been wrong all these years. I am convinced that some people did come from ape's, no I take it back, ape's have more sense than these idiots.
Man... if you are going to protest... make it look like you are doing it for a reason... make it look like you are organized in some way... and please... stop breaking windows....
I mean... little kids... (break windows)... LOL...!!!
If they were really serious and had some balls... and if they were organized in some slight way... they would take their 150K people, and storm those thirty or forty cops....! Forget breaking windows... that's for kids...LOL...!!!
This ..."Bowel Movement"... is a joke... they have ..."seasons"... in which they protest... they protest in only good weather... they are in complete disarray when they do it, and they even name their little protests...
And if you are going to be disruptive... do it with some sort of style, do it in ways that the government won't be ready for... in ways that the government isn't going to have the upper hand in the outcome of it.... geeeez... it's the twenty first century and we're watching pygmies walking down a street into pepper spray and rubber bullets... and then retreating.... wow......!
ROTFLMAO...!!!!
A.C.,
they would take their 150K people, and storm those thirty or forty cops
So, you're openly advocating violence?? Is that it?
Here's a news flash for you. If those 150K people stormed those 30 or 40 cops, there'd be a lot of body bags needed because the cops are armed and the crowd isn't. They would warn them to disperse and if the crowd showed that they were going to attack the cops, the cops would open fire on them...and you know what? Those dead morons would deserve it.
You do not make positive change through anarchic violence. You only degenerate civility into brutality and destruction.
You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. Either that, or you are just another insane lunatic who thinks "revolution" sounds sooooooo cool. You talk about "300 million people rising up against their government". Ha, what planet DO you live on? Or did you forget that large numbers of people in this country aren't against their government. They're only against "the other party".
Here's another news flash for you genius. It there WAS enough of the population that attempted to overthrow the government, it wouldn't be a revolution. It would be a civil war. There are plenty of people who would not join your little "cause" and would side against you.
What are you going to do then? Kill them too? Yeah, there's a great idea...not.
*sigh* Only the naive, the mentally defective and the insane think "revolution" is a good idea.
@The Wizard of Wisdom
revolution can be peaceful
@maximilianck
not this one apparently
AC denounces violence in throwing bricks, then turns around and advocates ambushing cops? It's people like this that cause the violence and then wonder why people shy away from them. All these protests from NY to LA and Wisconsin are tearing up property. I'm sure that will endear them to the public.
uh.....Dorian....you might try....LOST.......:)
Message to the 1% - QUIT STEALING FROM US SO MUCH!!!! Don't you have enough money? How many houses do you need? Spread the wealth around - pay people more so they can be happier in their jobs. Quit being such a scrooge!
message to the so called "99%" - QUIT STEALING FROM ME AND ASKING FOR SO MANY HAND OUTS!..pay the loans you signed up for and quit being freeloaders
Message Alert to both 99 and 1 percenters,
Get a life, go to work, pay your taxes and defeat Obama. There, simple.
how about you get off your lazy ass and try to EARN something? you useless slugs always want everything for free and at the expense of someone else who actually put some effort into getting what they have. they don't OWE you a thing.
Did it occur to none that the 1% are where they are because they worked for it. These are not the 99% they are the 51% that are on the dole or want to be. they went to expensive colleges , got degrees in nothing and now want all the people that work hard to pay for them. Basically they are people with too much time on their hands and are too lazy to do anything about it. Disgusting.
How is any rich person stealing from you idiot?
If I were a 1%er I would purchase a one-way ticket to China, Russia, or the UK for all these people who want my money so they can quit screwing up this Country. Why cant people gather through their brains that there are plenty of countries in this world that already share the wealth....GO THERE we dont need you here.
If i were a 1%er i would purchase a one way ticket to some other country besides this one (China, Russia, UK???) so they can live what they are protesting!! stop screwing this one up!!! Quit asking for my money!!!
For your info - I never took handout from anyone. Never needed it. Worked all my life, and I'm still employed. But I see how the working poor are being squeezed by the people who make hundreds of millions every year for no good reason other than GREED.
How are the rich stealing from the rest of society? And who do you think created the global crisis that has been going on for the last 3 years? Have any of these crooks been brought to account? No, the US government simply bailed them out because morons like you see nothing wrong with the way things are going.
Max, if your level of understanding and intellect is characteristic of the 99%, I'm amazed that the 1% doesn't own the socks on your feet.
The financial crisis was brought on by the irresponsible borrowing of the masses. People making $50k a year who thought that a $600,000 was within their price range. The worst thing the vast majority of the 1% did was not make the same mistakes.
But you can go ahead and keep blaming those who didn't lose, and who didn't mess up as badly as your ilk did. You'll just keep digging the hole you're already standing in.
Re: Max^108
You're right. The crooks haven't been brought to account. Those crooks, however, aren't who you think they are. It's the US government creating stupid laws that force banks to loan money to people who shouldn't have qualified in the first place under some concept that everyone has a government mandated right to live beyond their means.
As such, the US government was then responsible to save the businesses they had screwed over in the first place... so, as you can see, it's our freaking government that needs a good swift kick in the pants, not the people who own and operate the businesses under the stupid laws created by a government which is only concerned with getting re-elected because they "are looking out for the underdog."
Agreed Max.
Not everyone against the 1% is a "basement dwelling slob". There IS corruption going on that should be pointed out to everyone in this country and rallied against (peacefully of course).
Han - the crooks in the US government are crooked because big money in US politics talks much louder than ordinary citizens like you and me. They do what they sponsors tell them to do, and close their eyes to obvious and rampant scams, like the one Bernie Madoff was making for some 15 years.
When rats ate the corn in your barn you do not simply add more corn - you get rid of the rats first. But in US the rats own the government.
AAlec:"The financial crisis was brought on by the irresponsible borrowing of the masses." - really? Not by irresponsible lending by the 1%? These bankers supposedly were smart. Yes, they were smart, because they knew US government will bail them out. That does not make them less crooked.
I pay my loans on time. And I do not freeload off anyone.
Justice: "Get a life, go to work, pay your taxes and defeat Obama."
Life, I have, taxes I pay... as to defeating Obama...so he can be replaced by a Wall Street weasel eager to piss away even more of my tax money on stupid wars? Out of the two evils I pick a lesser one - but the choices are slim to none, as the crooks and money bags own the US political system. The only man worth voting for is Ron Paul.
VH Navy - the biggest scam to benefit the rich is the US military industrial complex. They are stealing $1T per year from not only this generation, but from future generations as well. I'm sure as a Navy man you have seen your share of this waste. How many student loans can you pay off with just one Cruise missile? US government pissed away more money on useless warmongering than it ever gave away in handouts to anyone.
How dare anyone get a loan to go to school and graduate thinking they are "entitled" to a job that pays above minimum wage. How dare anyone get angry at the "job creators" who have sent all the good paying jobs out of the country. Those people in faraway lands are happy to work for peanuts and you should be too. And how dare anyone ask for help paying off that loan because th only jobs available here are minimum wage. I mean the nerve.
A young man from Ourtime.org was on the other day making these comments for his generation. Tuition needs to be brought down in cost. Colleges spend way too much money on sports and not enough in the classroom. He wants transparency with regards to placement after graduation. Can we argue with any of those comments?
Where he fell down was that he still believes that students should have the right to pick any degree they want. I am fine with that as long as they pay for their education without using taxpayer dollars to get that worthless degree in female studies, or art history, etc. He defended that while there might not be many jobs in many of these fields we shouldn't tell people what they can and cannot learn. Again, NOT on my dollars. We need to educate kids in fields with demand.
Equally he doesn't seen the correlation between more and more government dollars to assist kids to go to college and higher college costs. He argued that why would we want to limit those that want to do to college. Well, I would bet that if colleges had their funds severely cut back they would find a way to cut expenses and spending and start focusing on teaching kids in the classroom and graduating those on time. Right now colleges can always raise costs and the government then raises money that can be borrowed. It is a vicious cycle.
MESSAGE TO THE ..."99%".... and to ..."Max"...
Stop feeding the..."1%"... stop giving it to the..."1%"....
If you want something to go away... if you want something to stop.... you starve it... you ignore it... you stop giving it what it needs to sustain...!!!!
Now... if only 300 million people in this country would turn on some brain cells and actually do this.... instead of whining and complaining about it...!
There isn't a military presence in this country or a viable police presence to stop 300 million people from revolting against the government and to oust the criminal element that occupies the existing government now...!
This country is ripe for a revolution... it is so vulnerable right now it is pathetic that it isn't happening...!
Yeah, a shame the citizens are not revolting as in the Mideast, right? We aren't because the majority ofus DON'T see things the way you do.......what about George Soros, Moveon.org, Tides Foundation, Frances Fox Piven who goes to Wall Street and encourages violence to "transform" our country into something we don't want........you and your minions may want communism, but the majority of Americans do not......THAT is why there is no revolution, thank God
careful what you wish for.
There was a concerted effort to hurt the economy several years ago for political reasons. It was hurt. Then it spiraled out of control.
Revolutions are easy to start if your in the right place at the right time, but they are near impossible to end then with the outcome you want. There would be influences from unexpected sources if the US ever gets to that point.
Sports is actually a money maker.
There is one little problem though.
If a school wants a football team they are forced to have other sports for females that nobody pays to see. If schools were allowed to do as they wanted with regards to sports, they would be making a lot more money that could then be used to lower tuition.
No that's not why........ and no one wants communism. They want a fair shot they don't seem to be getting. They want to have the same advantages as prior generations, and it's not happening. When they're fed up enough, it will happen, and this time "The Revolution will be Televised"
This whole thing is history repeating... Civil Rights in the 60's, for GenX and below currently.....
OWS = The new "Knee Grow"
SMH while sitting back and watching what's gonna happen next. Kind of entertaining, really... Watching all you white folks argue about fairness and equality.....
(And really, I know OWS isn't about white and black because everyone is in the same financial "boat" now, but interesting to note when times are getting rough for caucasions, the collective "boat" gets rocked a whole lot harder now when earlier, they never gave 2 licks about anyone else....)
To all who think the mess we are in is just because a bunch of people took out outragous loan amounts are all crazy. Do you think the government stood over these bankers and MADE them produce these loans? Do you think it was written in the laws that these loans HAVE to be pushed through? NO it was not in the law. Even though i do think people need to take personal responsibility for their actions i also believe that the bankers need to take responsibility as well. These bankers are a whole lot smarter than the average person getting a loan and they KNEW that these people could not afford the payments BUT pushed the loans through anyway. So in essence the problem started with the government deregulating the financial industry, then the bankers went crazy giving out ridiculous loan amounts to people who could not afford it or were a high risk, then the people went crazy getting the loans because they were excited about getting the house of thier dreams. So all in all EVERYONE is responsible for this mess. I will say this though and any one of you can slam me all you want for this comment but I blame Bush more than anyone. He was warned long before the housing bubble collapsed and he did nothing to prevent or ease the burden that he knew this collapse would have on our economy. All Bush was worried about was getting his millions out of the oil companies due to the gas prices skyrocketing. Do any of you realize that when Bush was in office gas prices almost hit $5 a gallon nationwide. Do you also know that when Obama came into office and during the last 3 1/4 years of his presidency that the gas prices have NOT gone over $4 average nationwide? Doesn't that seem a little bit strange to any of you? No, of course it wouldn't seem strange to the Republicans who can not see for the forest!
Ok, you can go ahead and collapse my comment now! I've said my peace.
No bank was forced to take any loan. They wanted those bad loans because they thought housing would continue upward and the would steal half the world.
When we pay a bank 600k for a 200k house and the tax payer backs the loan we are robbed. All government guaranteed loans should be made directly for a small interest. This would cut house notes and rent by half or more. Trillions would be left in the hands of our people and not with thieving banks. They have a license to steal and they own the government.
If we do not put millions in the streets and force real change, the pigs and their government will have us in depression and chaos.
Actually there IS a law that instructs banks to have to give mortgage loans to pretty much every segment of society in which a bank operates. The Community Reinvestment Act (CRA, title VIII of the Housing and Community Development Act of 1977, 91 Stat. 1147, 12 U.S.C. § 2901 et seq.) is a United States Federal Law designed to encourage commercial banks and savings associations to help meet the needs of borrowers in all segments of their communities, including low- and moderate-income neighborhoods. Congress passed the Act in 1977 to reduce discriminatory credit practices against low-income neighborhoods, a practice known as redlining.
Compliance with the CRA is not optional for the mortgage banking industry. Banking regulators and auditors conduct intense annual reviews of all financial institutions to make sure all aspects of the CRA are being followed. Failure to comply pretty much restricts a bank from ever being able to grow, open any other branches, or merge with other financial institutions.
How it works in practice is that your local bank has branches all over town. One part of town has plenty of affluent people with higher incomes and good credit, and the branch there grants mortgages to 95% of all who apply there. Branches in other parts of town where incomes are lower and credit is generally not as good struggle to grant mortgage to 50% of all who apply. Guaranteed at their next audit by the folks from FDIC...they are getting written warnings regarding being discriminatory in their lending practices.
It can't be that they were denying people based on their income levels or demonstrated credit/pay history (or lack thereof). The bank must be discriminating, right?
So the bank focuses a ton of energy the next year on figuring out how to grant more mortgages in the other parts of town to get their lender approval ratios in line. That is how variable rate, interest only, ARMs, and other "exotic" mortgages were born.
The thing is...these banks don't want to hold onto those "exotic" loans after they make them. Too risky. They just want to fund them to show regulators they are in compliance with the CRA, and then they package them up and sell them off to other investors on what is called the secondary market.
When the industry makes too many of these subprime loans and packages them off to clueless investors who buy thinking they are quality loans...and then a recession happens where property values plummet...well...you got it figured out now...that's what happened to us all in 2008.
I'm not making it up. Do some research. The CRA along with other regulatory lapses of the secondary market, credit rating agencies, and the proliferation of the "exotic" loan type all contributed to the Perfect Storm we've all lived through.
awesomealex,
you are ignoring the other half of the problem. Sure people taking out loans for super overpriced houses was part of the problem but so were the banks that gave out those loans when they knew they would never see that money come back. And before you say what did not have a choice, yes they did.
They could have stood up tot he ignorant dumbasses in Congress that were forcing them to give out those loans. Instead they chose to play along because they put their own personal well being ahead of the country. They put their own financial success ahead of the country. If a few bank exec's had to go to jail to stop 2008 from happening so be it. Instead we are going to be paying for their apathy for a very long time and the bankers themselves have not yet faced any kind of punishment for destroying our economy. They have not faced any kind of punishment for predatory foreclosing. They have not tried to help people who are struggling with their payments.
Then we have the rich people that have the money necessary to start employing Americans but they will not do so because of stupid political reasons or the excuse that the economy is too risky. If you do not want risk you picked the wrong profession. To top that all off Republican's in Congress want to increase unemployment but shutting down larges swaths of the Gov and laying off public sector works like teachers and police.
Fixing the debt has to be a long term goal and requires a long term solution. Fixing the economy has to be a short term goal and requires a short term solution. As long as the economy can be righted we can deal with the debt at any time. Until then we should not focus so much on our debt and worry about creating an environment in which we can start to deal with it. We will not be able to pay off the debt if we keep laying people off, kill any chance of a full recovery, and do not raise taxes. This is a reality Norquist and his merry band of miscreants need to come to terms with.
The only theft going on is the government taxation. Tax is extortion on the threat of kidnapping (prison) enforced by a hired thug (police) who will shoot you (murder) if you resist the kidnapping.
There is no way to logically or ethically deny this...all you can do is make pragmatic and practical arguments for why you support extortion even when it's not the "path of least coercion".
Stop cheerleading for extortion and acting like others steal from you when they earn more money than you through their intellectual or physical labors. No one owes you anything.
BTW...I'm an anarchist and far more radical than you are OP.
So i take it that the social security and medicare taxes we pay into are entitlements? Well the way I see it, is that i am entitled to that money since it is my money to begin with. Everytime politicians think about getting rid of these"entitlements' they begin realize that it would be political "suicide'" to do so. so i guess i will be getting my entitlements whe I turn 65.
You deserve what you paid in when you turn 65 for retirement. What isn't deserved are the people that take money from social security for disabilities when they are in their 20's. Many still manage to work under the table, ride snowmobiles, 4-wheelers, hunt, build decks etc., but can't work a regular job because their back hurts. Or children that collect - case in point - mom marries, has new hubby, who is disabled and collecting, adopt her daughter from previous relationship whose natural father was paying child support, natural dad no longer has to pay after adoption, and because adoptive dad is disabled, adoptive daughter now collects $600/mo in social security until she turns 18. This is completely true, and IS the problem with social security. They take for our retirement, but it won't be there because to many lazy, blood suckers THINK they deserve to be paid without contributing.
Where is all the surplus money that went into these 'entitlement programs' for the last 50 years? Oh... the government pissed it away on pointless wars.
"What isn't deserved are the people that take money from social security for disabilities when they are in their 20's."
So, disabled people should just be left alone to die? I am fairly certain they don't ask to be born severely retarded or with extreme physical disabilities. In your world, Stephen Hawking would never have existed because he couldn't pull his own weight.
I am talking about people who were born with no deformities nor abnormalities, that work for a short time, and claim an injury to collect disability, which comes from social security. I know way to many people in my area that are now "disabled" due to a work injury, and have collected anywhere from 10 -25 years. These "disabled" in my area do hunt, fish, ride bone jarring vehicles, hell, one even drove to Florida and back to NY 3 times in one year. But they can't work because their back hurts to much. They didn't pay much in, but are getting a ton back. Don't try to paint my comment on these losers as though I wouldn't help someone who is truly disabled whether born with a defect or afflicted with one through a mishap in life.
I am so tired of you liberal loonies trying to paint anyone that thinks some reform needs to be done to prevent slackers from getting free handouts as a cold-hearted, selfish moron that won't provide help where needed. GET A CLUE!!
Exactly middleoftheroad! There are legitimate people with illnesses and injuries that deserve disability. My daughter had a life threatenting disease and collected disability for a short time but wanted to have a "real" life. She worked a few jobs in order to have a "normal" life but eventually it got to be too much for her health and she had to go back on disability. It was one of the hardest decisions of her life, she wanted to contribute to society so badly. She was on disability about 3-4 years before she lost her battle to the disease last year. Unfortunately, so many take advantage of the system and do things, like you mentioned, that prove they really aren't disabled. My sister is one of them (glad I don't speak to her), she complains about how much pain she's in but she can sure travel, ski, snow sled, lollygag on the beach, etc. She's had the victim mentality all her life and at 51 years of age, still has the victim mindset. I have no use for her whatsoever.
Great post you made!
Clotho: I don't think he or she was talking about people with valid disabilities....there are many out there that "claim" they are disabled who are actually NOT that disabled. These are the people that are taking from the system. If there were a way to actually weed them out so that only people with actual disabilities collected from Social Security....we'd have money in the account. Oh, and if our government would quit "borrowing" from it with no intention of paying it back....that might help too!!
By the way, Middleofthe road, I'm one of those liberals, and I agree with some of those so-called loonies, but I also agree that the government isn't doing enough to weed out fraud and waste from ALL areas.
Middleoftheroad,
As a person with a disability since 1984 at a rate of 34% neck and back. There are days when I can pull tree stumps out of the ground barehanded. Then there are months when I can hardly walk or lift a carton of milk. I am not on Soc Sec disability or disability pay, I should be, as it would not pay enough to survive on. Getting a social Sec disability is next to impossible to fake. I have met a number of people like myself who"look normal" but suffer from pain and other things not shown by a mere look from someone who is not a Dr. Please Post your Dr credentials and name names of these "fakes". I would like you to document your knowledge and where you studied injuries of any kind, or where you worked in any rehab business. PURE B>S> Just like Zimmerman, in your mind someone is getting away with it. Oh you are so taken advantage of by cripples. Poor baby. I am sure they only exist in your make believe land in your mind. "Make a ton"...ya sure...Try checking out how it is paid for before you speak.....But giving all the welfare to corporations and tax write offs and lowering taxes on the rich while you pay more is ok in your world huh?
Funny..you vote for republicans that do just the opposite of your self interests.
Talking about disabilities, i know of a lady who has disability on her TWO children for ADHD AND has disability on herself for bipolar. Oh and her girlfriend who lives with her has disability for a back injury. So four people living under one roof has four disability checks coming in with food stamps. These people make more than i do off the government! Now my opinion is a disability is just that a disability. People who can take medicine, ie my example above ADHD and BiPolar meds, that can lead a perfectly normal life while taking these meds SHOULD NOT be allowed disability! Disability insurance from the government should be only for the disabled who CANNOT work even while taking meds to somewhat improve their living conditions. I have no problem giving to people who cannot help themselves or to people who are born with a disability only when it is PROVEN that their disability interferes with their normal day to day activities. People with ADHD and Bipolar which by the way can be treated with meds can lead normal healthy lives and should not require disability. Same goes for diabietes, obesesity, ADD, and many other disorders the government has deemed worthy of disability.
Starsailing - I am one mere person in this world but like I said in my post, my sister is definitely taking advantage of the "system". Don't tell me there aren't Dr.'s out there who are in business to write up disability claims because there are numerous docs who make a living off this! My victim sister has a Dr. who writes up pain med prescriptions to the tune of over 100/month, every month, with refills. NO, she does not need this much, she is just a drug addict. Period! I've been around her when she talks about getting her fair share and she doesn't care who she screws over. And while I don't know them, she has told me about her numerous friends doing the same thing through their own Dr.'s.
Yes, there are many legitimate people who deserve to be on SSD (and it sounds like you are one of them) but don't try to convince me that it's so difficult because it's really not. My daughter was on SSD legitimately but she also knew people who took advantage of the system and made 100's of thousands of dollars on our tax dime.
On another note, my father lost both legs in the Korean War. He NEVER missed one day of work in 35 years...not one. He certainly had multiple reasons to sit home, feel sorry for himself and take advantage of the system but he didn't. I'm glad he taught at least one of his kids (me) a strong work ethic. So no, we are not being taken advantage by "cripples" as you say but there are many folks that do take advantage and I truly don't understand why you, a person with a legitimate disability, would want someone else to take advantage and take money that is due you.
Sorry but you hit on a nerve with me because I've seen ALL sides of the coin, up close and personal with three members of my own family.
Hey TM - figure out how much the average person pays in to SS and MC and you'll see the problem. For instance, my mother receives $1900.00/month = 22,800.00 yr x 10 years = 228,000.00. Do you really think that she paid that much in????? R-E-A-L-L-Y???? And then there's Medicaid that now pays for electric scooters and so on for no money down. Do you think she paid in enough for that?????
When SS was enacted the average male lifespan was 62 and SS kicked in at 65...get it? Get it? The Gman never expected the average person to live to collect....well, now the average lifespan is 74??? That's 12 years of unexpected out pay times millions of baby boomers the Guv'ment never saw coming! Get it? Get it?
Now...what do you deserve???? How about your little pittance that you pay in plus about 5% interest! That's why "entitlements" are bankrupting the country. There is no smoke and mirrors in big finance! If it don't work in your private checkbook - it don't work in the guv'ments either.
Stupid is as stupid does! What happened to just plain ole common sense in America?!?!?!?!?
Good points Skeeter. I wish SS was more of a 401K program. I know people in their 20 collecting SSI and food stamps and my parents in their 80s who worked all their lives can not get it. My neighbor not married gets SS for dependant children has a child and collects for the child, while her boyfriend lives with her. They bring in over 2K a month in benifits, but I guess his min. wage job pays his fair share of the SS bill. SS was also designed to supplament your retirement, now people want it to be their main source. Not to mention, where in the constitution does it say the government have any business doing this???
Had my SS tax's gone into a 401, I would be a millionaire !
My company also offered a 401k , I put in 1/5th of my SS and you can imagine the return , about 8 times investment and now above where it was when the market crashed , plus because of my age I must take a minimum distribution yearly !
FYI...I don't know this for sure but am making an assumption. There is a rule of 72 basically meaning that whatever is invested doubles in 7 years. My assumption is that SS would use this rule or something similar, thus the reason payments equal more than what was actually paid in. SS payments should be more than what was actually paid in, otherwise the government would get to invest all of our money and keep the return on the investment.
If we invested the money ourselves, we would have much greater control and could be millionaires but we all know that the 99% would spend all the money, never invest it and then still ask for free handouts.
Crunch the numbers...for most people they are. Most people will take more out of the system than they ever paid in. The rich pay for your social security and medicare when you didn't contribute enough to pay for all your later life expenses.
Here's a little math. You need 1.2 million dollars MINIMUM to retire from generation X. That's $24,000 of average annual contributions to JUST SOCIAL SECURITY and MEDICARE, not counting income tax, etc.
To contribute that much, you'd have to average an annual income for 50 years of $78,431.35...and that's with your employer matching your contributions (you both pay 7.65% FICA tax).
Guess what? It's an entitlement system where the rich pay for most of the populations retirement costs.
Guess why? Because the Federal Reserve inflated the currency faster than total compensation (wages+benefits) grew due to increases in productivity via technology. Since 1913 we have lost 96% of the value of our dollar in purchasing power when food and energy is accounted for. As an example of the effect of this, in the 1950s mortgages for homes were usually 10 year notes...now they are 30 years plus, even with lower interest rates!
Lastly, there is no Social Security lockbox...the money was spent by the government you love so much. Welcome to reality. All they have for you are IOUs and inflated currency (printed or digitally invented currency to cover their liabilities to you).
There just arn't enough governemnt jobs to go around...would any business hire these types?
Are there businesses that will pay someone to camp out in a park 24/7? If so they might have a shot.
What did "we" expect when we elected a guy who very adequately explained that he was for wealth re-distribution!?!?!?! We must compare our stupidity to that of the Germans who elected Hitler and then said they were surprised that he wanted to kill the Jews, destroy the church, kill the disabled, gypsies, minorities and invade the Soviet Union for lebensraum.
When a person runs on socialist-Marxist principles guess what you get: OBAMA!
As a Jewish person, I find that extremely offensive. How about we save the Hitler comparisons for people who commit the mass genocide of millions, OK? President Obama simply suggested we have the very richest pay an extra 3% income tax. Hardly Hitler. Or socialist. Just a return to the pre-Bush 1990s tax rate.
The moment I see someone using phrases like "wealth redistribution" and "socialism", that person has lost all credibility with me. But what is very obvious is that when they also include comparisons to Hitler, they are contradicting themselves. Hitler was pro big business and opposed to socialism. He was also a genocidal maniac - he used Christianity to convince an entire nation that killing the Jews was a good idea.
I knew people in my youth that had the number tattoos on their forearms, and they would be the first to admonish Skeeter, and put him in his place quickly.
Skeeter, what you posted was not only insulting, it was anti-American.
I agree ALL Hitler comparisons should be left out of these discussions. That goes for both sides.
However, Hitler did not use Christianity to convince a nation of anything. He was not pro-Christian in any sense of the word.
very true Kahrcarrier.Hitler once told Erwin Rommel that he was "weak"for praying to the Christian God and his gods,the ancient Germanic religions,are for the strong.This according to the memoirs of Manfried Rommel.
Hitler most certainly was pro-Christian. Here's a quote:
The average German citizens were decent folks, so how did Hitler convince them that killing Jews was OK? He portrayed Jews as "Christ-killers". Hitler had the backing of the Pope in this.
Please don't try to re-write history.
Hitler opposed to socialism? The very acronym "Nazi", paraphrased, means national socialism.I guess in revisionist history,Hitler is opposed to his own party?
I guess Stalin was a Christian too when he used the church to appeal to the Russian people to stop the German invasion.Hitler said he was pro-Christian just to get elected.Just like Hitler said he was pro-union right before he disbanded him.If he would have told his true intentions,he would have never been elected and more than likely arrested or assinated
Hitler said anything to get elected like all politicians.He definately wasn't a Christian because Christ said Love thy neighbor.
Sorry, folks. Didn't mean to start World War Three here. Just stating facts. Hitler was a lifelong Catholic. Even though he sometimes spoke ill of his faith, he never relinquished it. While I agree that Christ represents love, this wasn't the only time faith was used to disenfranchise and polarize people. It is being done even today in America.
Perhaps Hitler was cynical in his misuse of faith. But the fact remains that the German word for socialism does appear in the Nazi acronym. That means nothing, however. Hitler hated that word, and he hated the concept of socialism even more. It was an aide that convinced him that the word would be a selling point to gain political power. Nobody hated socialism and communism more than Hitler. He was a right-wing extremist.
Life long Catholic???? A Christian??? Tell that to Deitrich Bonhoeffer and the MILLIONS of Christians that Hitler put to death (more numerically than Jews).
An aide did not convince Hitler to call it the National Socialist Workers Party, that was the name before Hitler joined...History people history! NAZI is an acronym for: Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party) a party that evolved from: The National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP).
And Jim 3113262, you need to look up the video proof regarding Obama's use of the terms "redistribution of wealth," all on YouTube. Just because you cannot put a name to a party platform does not mean it does not exist. How about the video of Obama teaching Alinsky (Marxist-Leninist) Economics at the University of Chicago????
I guess all of you are post-1980's graduates of the Progressive Party's education system. Plus - if you can't handle a little comparison about your foolishness for electing a man who blatantly advertised what he would do to the American culture once elected - too bad.
My dad, many uncles and other family members fought the Nazi's, some were imprisoned by them, tortured and murdered by them - so I got free rein baby paid for by McClusky blood in the 1860's, 1920's, 1940's,50's, me in the Nam and my son in Afghanistan! Whats in your genealogy? OWS? Burning your draft card? Or just posting uneducated, poorly researched non-sense on a chat page.
I got more like votes than you did!!!!! Nanny nanny poo-poo!!!!!!!!!!
Hitler was a conservative who was bought and paid for by the industrialists (corporations). They thought they could control him but were they surprised when he turned into a raging maniac and in the end wanted to lay waste to the entire country (Germany) because the "people" double crossed him.
Skeeter you just prove what a STUPID REPUBLICAN you really are. You're doing your relatives who FOUGHT HITLER a GREAT DISSERVICE, but you are too blinded by right wing RHETORIC to see that!!!
Gee skeeter...did I say something wrong? I never claimed that the acronym was created for Hitler, but it did exist, and Hitler hated socialism and he had to be talked into it. History, man. AND, Christians were killed, but NOT for their faith, but rather in spite of it. Those killed included Russians, Poles, the disabled, gays, gypsies...and lots of those were Christians, but that's not why they were killed. History.
Sorry if I rubbed your rhubarb the wrong way, but if you can't take the heat, don't blame me.
You question my patriotism? I served my country with pride, and come from a long line of US Marines (and preachers on the other side). I will compare my service to yours any day of the week.
Running me down does absolutely nothing to support your position.
Big yawn........
remember the song?
"WELL HES JUST AN OLD HIPPIE AND HE DONT KNOW WHAT TO DO, SHOULD HE HANG ON TO THE OLD ,SHOULD HE GRAB ONTO THE NEW"
Time to get out the Pepper Spray.
(j/k) :-)
As long as the OWS protesters allow the generational welfare, the voluntary homeless and unemployed and the out-right lazy to join their ranks they will never have any credibility.
If this is truly a day for workers, why is it only the lazy unemployed marching? I have a job and I'm spending today working to help pay for their food stamps. Those without a job are not looking hard enough.
I have a friend who's been looking for a job for about a year now. He's running out of places that haven't turned him down. He's a nice guy - just doesn't have the background anyone is looking for, since no one will hire him to let him get any experience.
It's hard to find a for a sheep Herder
I love it. The right is looking better each day as these spoiled brats show their asses.
No they are not.
The right don't look so much better, as the left looks so much worse. The are like little kids that when they go to the department store scream and kick because they don't get the toy they want. like them the OWS need some disipline.
They will never have any credibility. If you have idiotic ideas you will never be credible dimwit!
LOSERS!!! OWS is lame!!!
If ANYONE is a LOSER it's the 1% who have RAOED & ROBBED the 99% MORON!!!
Dear Occupiers,
All the "FREE" stuff you want. Free education, free medical, and the list goes on costs someone money. Nothing is free. Your utopian, fantasy land does not exist. You can only get free stuff until the money runs out. You are nothing more than a bunch of spoiled brats who feel entitled. Take a bath, get a haircut and get a job. If you want more out of life EARN IT. Do not expect me or anyone else to give it to you.
This is what always kills socialism/communism. You get the same regardless of how hard you work so you quickly figure out you can stop working without any consequences. Pretty soon, nobody's producing any surplus for you to mooch and the system collapses. Even commie china no longer believes its system can sustain itself so they're letting just enough capitalism to pay the bills while holding onto the oppressive political system. Bottom line, socialism cant produce enough to pay for socialism. THey run out of other people's money.
Yep. Luckily, nobody is asking for communism. or socialism.
I take offense to the "we're the 99%" crap. These people are delusional if they think 99% of citizens agree with them.
If you think that's offensive, get downwind of an OWS protest!!!
GAG!!
I'm all for workers rights. However I doubt if most of the protesters are workers.
A lot of people are putting the Occupy movement down, at least they are doing something. Protesting banks and foreclosures that are affecting a lot of people, crappy wages, injustice for the 99%, I could go on infinitum. However, you people just vote someone into office on their false promises and then when they fail to come through you spend the next few years whining and moaning because you can't find a job or you are going into foreclosure. In Britain people protest in the millions if they don't like something, and guess what? It works. They stopped the poll tax, charging for education and plenty of other things. Americans can't be bothered to go out and get what is theirs, they would rather sit on their couches and make fun of those that do. BTW, they are not all hippies or druggies, they are regular men and women with children who just want a better life.
They are lazy losers that want what others have worked hard for.
"at least they are doing something"
They are not even doing anything to further their cause (if they even know what that is).
If they were lazy losers they would be at home watching TV.
LOL, Julia. Watching TV gets old sometimes. They need to mix it up with living in a tent and hanging out with other losers occasionally. Party, Party, Party! I don't see any of them trying to work out any grievances. They just complain and expect smarter people to fix things.
They will go back to mommie and daddies basement to watch TV for the rest of the week...
Dont confuse "doing something" with "accomplishing something." They're just a bunch of liberal arts loosers who just realized they've crapped away their prime chance to support themselves and they're looking for a replacement for mommy and daddy to pay for their mistakes again.
Voting someone in with false promises,hmmmm, Obommer?
Yeah, I guess you're right, they are doing stuff; like destroying private property, breaking laws, blocking streets and roads people use to get to work, and costing tax payers thousands of dollars to clean up the mess they're leaving behind. So yeah, they're doing something all right.
They are most definitely "doing something" As of 11/9/11 - 12 Rapes, 12 Antisemantic Rants, 3 arrests for public masturbation, 10 fires by Molitov Cocktails, 1 Shooting, 18 arrests for public urination, 9 arrests for urinating on other people, 1 Felony assault on an EMT, Cost to Taxpayers for damages $19,387,427.00. And these are just the ones that were reported to law enforcement. And bless you for praising them. BTW, what's with the "go out and get what is theirs"? Just exactly what is it that is theirs? Maybe, just maybe, they should dump the "owe me" mentality and earn what they want instead of demanding someone give it.
mcm; some proof. Don't have any do you?
cdo I think there were only 6 or 7 rapes.
cd08
Maybe you should read this article on the cost of the Occupy movement.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/occupy-wall-street-protests-cost-cities-millions/story?id=14975940#.T6AmQlLleSo
Maybe you should read these articles on the arrests made.
http://stpeteforpeace.org/occupyarrests.sources.html
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/nationnow/2011/11/occupy-philly-rape-arrest.html
How is that for your proof?
Anyone who believes that most of the OWS protesters support the vandalism/violence taking place during the protests must be delusional.
If you want a rational discussion, for one, accusations/ad hominem attacks serve no purpose, other than to create contention or to make yourself appear extremely unintelligent.
And two, to stick to the facts.
And here are the facts behind the OWS protester's message:
Over the last 30 years, we've seen our standard of living decrease.
Two things to keep in mind: 1. Over the last 30 years, middle class/poor worker wages have remained stagnant (factoring in inflation, this means their purchasing power has decreased). On the other hand, the wages of the wealthiest have skyrocketed (and their purchasing power increased dramatically).
and 2. Worker production over the last 30 years has increased to 120% of what it was 30 years ago.
So with those two points in mind the question I'd have to ask for those who disagree with the OWS protests is: Why aren't middle-class/poor workers seeing any increase in their wages despite their increased productivity, while business executives have experienced nothing short of an INCREDIBLE increase in their wages and purchasing power? Shouldn't people be paid more for working harder?
Something else to keep in mind while answering those questions: this isn't class warfare. I don't believe most of the wealthiest individuals/business executives are to blame for this. Sure, some are greedy, but I don't believe most are. It's not the wealthy in our society that're to blame, it's the system that allows this kind of oppression to take place.
Good post CommonSenseEH!
Couple other points - Corporate Profits up 300% in that time frame, while employee wages up 10% and factoring in inflation over the same time period, employee pay is down.
Questions to ask yourself:
1. If success is based on merit, then why do we have billions in CORPORATE welfare every year? Why do we have to bail out banks, the automotive industry, airlines, financial firms and the like? These are being bailed out by public debt...so the game is, give the people's capital to the well positioned so that they can give a small share back?
I've had a job for more than 26 years without a taking a single dime from the government, put myself through school, never gone into debt and am conservative by nature, but this game is crooked. I think OWS is allowing itself to pushed into the image of a communist organization, when the reality is, they are arguing against a corrupt system that takes money from the public and gives it to the very few who don't really make or produce anything. Both the dems and repubs are to blame for this.
AND - what austerity measures is that article talking about? Our government spends more now than they ever did. What cut backs have they had?
Common Sense Eh? I agree with your points. What you have stated is exactly the truth. I'm not sure how to fix the problem. I'm a plumber and have been for over 35 years. I have been self employed and have always made plenty of money to do, pretty much whatever I want to do.
Whenever the OWS people get together there is always violence, tons of garbage, reports of rape attacking the police, destruction of private property ( usually small businesses, which are not part of the problem ), and even a few deaths in NY. So how is it exactly that OWS expects to attract support for their causes? OWS only seems to come accross as a bunch of thugs and vandals that use a very good issue as an excuse to be thugs and vandals.
Yes destroying property will do a lot for the insurance companies and the property owners, now they will have to pay out money they could have use to increase business. Not to mention if their costs go up so do all of our costs, since we will have to pay for it in higher fees. I really feel sorry for that poor man from Canada that got his window broken, I guess he was a CEO of some large Canadian bank. If the protestors around the vehiclewould have detaind the person who broke his window I would have more respect for the movement, but they tend to not only look the other way, but to join them. Did the banks force people at gunpoint to buy homes that couldn't possibly afford? I am sorry but people making $10 and hour, should not be buying $200,000 homes. Last year the OWS calmed victroy over the banks by stopping the $5 fees they add., but low and behold they just changed the fees, Business will do that. They need money to give away all those freebees that you all cry out for, will someone has to pay for them. My question is if all the wages have been static for the past 30 years, what have the Unions been doing (or should I say not doing, except for raking in the money for them?) I would think that paying someone to do nothing for you, you would think to stop paying them. At least you would have the union dues as extra income (which wouldn't hurt). I just think that the protesters are waisting their time and making things worse with all the damage they are causing. I do wish they would take clues from the Tea Party movement. at least they are acheving things, with no property damage, leave the area clean, after they protest. Very simular to the MLK protests back in the 60's. The OWS movement is more like the Watts Riots. Which was more successful looking back, the future will prove the OWS movement is loosing far more supports then it is gaining. Most of us hard working people can agree with some of your goals, but your methods, turn us off, and make us feel sorry for the ones you protest against. OWS is barking up the wrong tree. Like TP movement they should be getting the ones (government) that control the so called banks, and others. Change the ones that make the rules, like Bonnie Frank that can take banks money, and brake laws that we would be put in prison for, out of there, and try to get some intelligent white,blue, and other collar workers in there, you know people that had to live on the family budget for the past 30 years. I have nothing against the rich, heck I hope to become one. I don't complain about most of the money they make but a lot of them put their money into starting business, and I believe they should get something out of it, because if they loose it they lost it all.
Common sense---The opponents of this movement try to label it communism ,socialism or Marxism....But if you work harder but don't make more for it, isn't that what the downfall of those 'isms are supposed to be ?Ironic isn't it ? Your statistics are accurate..Big corporations are oppressive to everyone including small business owners ( What happened to the hardware store ? Home depot.) and government ( If you don't vote for their bills as a congressman they will pay for someones campaign to defeat you)
We all need to put our social differences aside and stand in solidarity....Remember they had to break up the railroads and standard oil because the robber barons were controlling the government and destroying our country.....It is time again.....God bless America ........And please give us a Supreme Court and Congress that will stop the Global Corporate Oligarchy .......It isn't that bad yet but if Romney wins they win.....And Obama is only slightly better....Hopefully a second term will allow him to fix more without having to worry about re-election like Clinton's second term....
sw - Look at histroy and the consumer, The consumer decided not to shop the smaller higher priced hardware store, and went to Home Depot instead. People shop Price, and Home Depot gave more slection for less money. True they put the smaller companies out of business, but it is we the consumers that choose price over local, friendly stores. How many people shop Walmart over the smaller local shops. The comsumer did this not the big corperations, They give us what we want, then we get mad at them for giving us what we want cheap goods. The problem is after a while they get so big they can then control the prices do to lack of competition. Sometimes we do not know what is best for us, I can remember AT&T one phone company that controled pretty much the whole country. We had cheap rates for basic phone service, not much selection, but low rates. Now that they are broken up (lately comming back together) there are many offering more services for more money. We Love our Apple I phones, and don't complain with Apple takes it manufacturing jobs to China, because of the low wages. The voters act like consumers, every election the Politicans offer free this and free that, to get votes, and most of the people say I will vote for you. The problem is we have about 1/3 of the populace voting, and half of them are too stupid to see what is going on. I differ, in that Obama without having to run again would be more rampad. He is now constraind a little by the House (although he seems to override Congrss with excutive orders, and appointments). His spending objectives our out of control, and I worry about how he is going to pay back that one Billion dollars in campain funds he will collect. At least Romney would not go as wild as the Obama has so far and maybe the govenment would spend less then it takes in. Ron Paul would probably be the only one that would slow down the spending (although I do not like his foreign policy at all.). We really need fiscal consertives running the show. Someone that could make a budget and stick to it, like the rest of the populace has to everyday. You can say the Corperations are running the show, but it is only because the criminals we put in office accept their gifts, and money, and we accept thier lip service, on how much they are doing for us.
even among Occupy , the public dialogue is weak . all of that sign waving
confounds itself with varietal issues , ish yoo , scuse me while i sneeze . so ,
there is only love and action and power to the peaceful . this is the center .
hey you , the un-peaceful , a spirit of power shall make you cry . after that
we'll see what life shall have sensibly become . consensus ?