E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSFollowing the death of 26-year-old drum major Robert Champion, Rep. Corrine Brown, D-Fla., discussed the decision by Florida A&M's trustees to ignore calls from the state governor and other educators to suspend its president.
Five months after Robert Champion, a marching band drum major, died aboard a charter bus, allegedly after being hazed, prosecutors are poised to file charges against at least five band members detectives say are responsible for his death.
Prosecutors plan to hold a press conference on Wednesday.
Danielle Tavernier, a spokeswoman for the Orange-Osceola State Attorney’s Office, told the Orlando Sentinel that there will be a range of felony and misdemeanor charges. Law enforcement officials told the Sentinel that they interviewed more than 50 witnesses.
No arrests had been made by Tuesday afternoon.
Robert Champion, 26, was found unresponsive aboard the bus in November after the annual Florida Classic football game in Orlando. Florida A&M’s football team had lost.
The medical examiner ruled his death a homicide in the course of hazing by the university’s celebrated Marching 100 band. Detectives told The Associated Press that he suffered blunt trauma blows and died from shock caused by severe bleeding. Hazing that involves bodily harm is a third-degree felony in Florida.
In a six-minute 911 call obtained by the AP, an unidentified caller asked the dispatcher for an ambulance, saying that Champion had just vomited.
"His eyes are open, but he's not responding," the caller said. Another person took the phone and said, “He is cold.”
Shortly after, the call was disconnected.
Four students were dismissed after the alleged hazing, but Champion’s parents were frustrated that no charges had been filed.
Witnesses have told Champion’s parents that he might have been targeted because he opposed the culture of hazing that they say has long existed in the band. It was also suggested to them that he was targeted because he was gay and a candidate for chief drum major.
But Champion's parents dismissed the notion that his sexual orientation triggered this incident.
"The main reason that we heard is because he was against hazing, and he was totally against it," Champion's father, Robert Champion Sr. told the AP.
His parents have sued the bus company.
Robert Champion, an FAMU drum major, died from blunt force trauma on a bus after the band had performed at a football game. Today his parents said their son was gay, but this wasn't a hate crime. NBC's Brian Williams reports.
Parents of Florida A&M hazing victim to sue bus company
Since Champion’s death, other hazing allegations have emerged. Freshman Bria Hunter told WFTV that 11 days before the drum major’s death, she was rushed to the emergency room because her leg had gone numb. It turned out her thigh was broken.
She explained that she allowed the hazing, "So we can be accepted."
Three band members have been arrested for beating Hunter, according to the AP.
Meantime, the university’s longtime band director, Julian White, remains on paid leave. The university’s trustees have voted to strengthen its anti-hazing policy, requiring that everyone connected to the school – even volunteers and vendors – report any hazing they hear about within 24 hours.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Advance report of Obama's Afghanistan trip raises security concerns
- Former top ICE official James Woosley pleads guilty in $600,000 scam
- Occupy activists fear becoming Democrats' 'pet'
- Democrat's panel urges major changes to Florida's Stand Your Ground law
- Bin Laden's lair: Hatching plots with no one to execute them
Leave a Comment:
This is so sad..If I were the parents I would sue the school, the bus company, and the parents of all the kids involved.
of course you would
Yes this is sad... and all you can think about is suing someone in your comment. Get revenge...!!!
Sandra, it is sad and I will send my respect to the family in their time of loss over bullying peer pressure. This band department should be shaken down from top to bottom and cleaned out and the kids/teens/students should all be held accountable for murder.
Suing someone...money... like money will ever change moral values. You know what changes moral values faster then anything else???? A good long jail term.... everyone finds god/righteousness/honor once in prison.
Shosyn--wow, that makes perfect sense. Let's put all these people in jail, where taxpayers have to feed and house them, rather than allowing the family to get some compensation that will hit people in the pocketbook--where they will pay attention.
There is no way that the bus company, the parents, or probably more than one or two of these kids will go to jail. People do not find God, righteousness, or honor in jail--they find out ways to be quite effective criminals, skills that will be necessary when they cannot get a job because they are ex-cons, and network with other very effective criminals.
Yes, a very stiff fine has always been an extremely effective way of modifying behaviors. It might not change a person's morals, but it sure as heck modifies a person's behavior when that person stands a chance of losing everything s/he has worked for if s/he engages in a certain action.
If the school loses a large amount of money--they will start to do something about hazing. The only aggressive policies against hazing which have had some effect have come after highly punitive lawsuits. So, yeah, it does work.
I don't know that I'd keep the money--some people who win such punitive lawsuits turn around and give the money to charities that will do some good with it--but I would file punitive lawsuits against anyone whom I thought I had a chance to punish via the lawsuit. If I succeeded, I would know full well that there would be some behavior modification somewhere down the line.
And, yes, you can go to various universities to see what happened after a successful punitive lawsuit against that university for hazing they did not do anything to address. Those same universities tend to be quite aggressive in addressing hazing now. While this may not--and almost certainly does not--prevent all hazing, it decreases it greatly. Lawsuits work--that's why people file them. Hit people in the pocketbook, and you'll get their attention.
But, why would I want to send tax-payers to jail for other tax-payers to support? That's stupid unless those tax-payers represent enough of a danger to others that they need to be in jail or unless they need to go to jail as an example. Even then, I think that they should pay for their own jail time if they have the funds. Bernie Madoff, for example, and his family should have been stripped of every penny they have and that money should be used to pay to keep him in a private prison and not living on the taxpayer's dime.
I agree with Sandra, money talks the rest is pretty much BS, yes send the kids and anyone else directly involved with the beating to prison that is good...for 6 months then it starts again as it has over and over. Now cost the university and bus company significant money and you have protection....they value money far more than any student and will go to great extent to protect their cash flows.
Throw the perps in jail, sue the pants off the intitution = change, hopefully permanent change
I think this country has gone "sue-happy." Does money bring back the life of the deceased? No. Does it bring happiness to the ones who win the suit? No. Does it cause even more anger and the wish for revenge? Yes. It does absolutely no good to sue.
Forloff... You gotta hit them were it hurts if you want any meaningful change. What would you suggest? Anger and revenge from who???
This country isn't "sue-happy" it's haze happy. How many deaths, emergencies and law suits will it take for this to end. Schools close their eyes to what is taking place across college campuses in America.
Why would you sue the bus company? They drive the bus, they are not responsible for the people's behavior on it.The bus company should sue or refuse ridership to the people who obviously don't know how to ride on a bus properly. Sue the people who beat this guy up or charge them with murder. This world would be a much better place if people would take responsibility for their OWN actions, instead of passing the blame.
@Shosyn, what in the name of f---k are you talking about?
quote: "You know what changes moral values faster then anything else???? A good long jail term.... everyone finds god/righteousness/honor once in prison."
Really??? So there are no repeat offenders? Many MANY convicts spend their lives in and out of prison, like it's a routine to go back. Unbelievable how naive you are.
@Just me, are you kidding? The bus company is ABSOLUTELY responsible for the behavior of the people riding the bus. If someone's safety on the bus is at risk, the bus company is responsible for taking steps to eliminate that risk (in this case, stopping the hazing from occurring on their bus, or at the very least, ordering the offending students off of the bus, which did not happen). And explain how the parents, by suing the bus company, aren't taking "responsibility for their OWN actions"? Are you saying the parents of the victim are responsible? If not, what actions should the parents be taking responsibility for? Unbelievable ignorance on your part.
The bad thing is if they sue, how will that ever bring back their son? Not to mention the fact other than probably suing the school they will probably never see any or little of that money due to long drawn out court battles and lawyers fees. Not to mention the family has to relive their sons death over and over again. Who really wins....no one.
Agree with Just me-why should the bus company be at fault? Is the driver a rent a cop also? Was he/she even present? What blows my mind is this even happened in the first place. Been to lots of band competitions-h.s. and I have never seen a greater group of kids in one place in my life.
If in fact the driver stood outside like stated below the bus company is in the doo-doo.
I remember when hazing was something that embarrassed the person being hazed. Like wearing a bra on the outside of their shirt, painting their face pink, or even streaking a football game.
What the he!! kind of students is this school bringing in and graduating? Are they from some stupid third world country where brutal criminal behavior is the norm? What the he!! are they gonna do when they graduate? Work for the mafia as enforcers?
I can't believe these are US kids. They have to be trucked in from some crap country full of dumba$$es.
There's enough accountability to go around in the long-lived, culture of hazing, an ignorant, barbaric ritual-- beginning with collegiate accreditation presiders, school administrators/alumni, perpetrators, and too some extent, new/recruits or potential/past victims,who are not willing to report the problem and walk away from the band (if you're willing to lose for the right reasons, rarely will you.), fraternity/sorority chapters, etc, and then there's the on-lookers/like the bus company, and there might be a smidget of responsibility to land in the lap of parental guidance--did you ever teach: "stand up for what's right-although that sometimes means standing alone, You can talk to me about anything and I'll support you," whether that means going to state/fed. officials, administrators, media, etc.
@Beanathome: You don't want taxpayers to support criminals who are being punished for the crime they committed (the sole purpose of laws and consequenses; the entire justice system), so you propose to sue the school?? You would rather hurt the school, which is already the lowest-funded government program, and all of the innocent students and teachers working very hard to further their education. Who do you think pays for grants to keep those schools open: TAXPAYERS. So instead of letting these criminals get away with MURDER but have some really inconvenient financial problems, how about we punish them for taking an innocent person's life?! If this was your child that was killed, wouldn't you rather see the murderer behind bars and away from everything they love and appreciate?
I am somewhat amazed by people who object to suing on the grounds that such "will not return the dead." Of course it will not, and I doubt even you think such is the reason for lawsuits. The reason for suing is not to return people from the dead, it is to impose MAJOR incentive to those involved to see that attitudes and behaviors which *enabled* these deaths change. I, for one, would sue the hell out of the school, the bus company, the (failed) supervisors, the families of the kids involved, the hosting schools, and the governing organizations who sponsored the event. In short, I would even sue you if you shared even an iota of blame for enabling, tolerating, ignoring, or sponsoring the tradition of hazing on your watch, or for failing in your obligation to protect these band members if that were your job on that day. Where kind words and prescient warnings fail to make clear the seriousness of hazing, fear of financial ruin should grab and hold your attention. And if even this does not, then all the greater woe to you. This was no accident. Let us be clear on that. So consider the vile spirit it takes to blame the parents for suing the hell out of everyone even remotely responsible for these deaths. To blame them for suing is to blame the victims; and to accuse them of suing so as to raise the dead is not only to be intentionally obtuse, it is to be willfully insulting to the intelligence of parents of the dead. A lawsuit is the option of last recourse. Yet there we are.
-Science_1
What would you do pained1?
Even in this video about the LA riots there is a clear attempt to distort the facts concerning the Trayvon Martin case in an outright attempt to frame Zimmerman in the public's eye. Thing is this is going to come back to bite them. Rodney King said he recognized Trayvon's scream -- that is was the type of scream that one makes before they are about to die and Al Sharpton agrees. Only thing is it was Zimmerman's scream and once that is proven for certain in court the house of cards that the liberal media and black activists have made is going to come tumbling down. That scream means Zimmerman knew he was about to die, and the shooting was justified. All the evidence indicates that it was Zimmerman screaming -- the two contrary opinions by two so called experts were set up by the media, which had already doctored video and audio tapes. Injuries and lack of injures for Zimmerman/Trayvon indicate that Zimmerman was the one screaming. Zimmerman had the higher pitch voice, which best fit the screams. Trayvon's own father said the screams were not Trayvon's.
There is a need for black activism but black activists like all humans can make serious mistakes. The Zimmerman case is one of those mistakes. Despite all the evidence, they have become hysterical in their attempt to distort and actually lie about the facts of the Trayvon Martin case.
Torre, a black journalist, who appeared in the video above became hysterical in his attacks on Piers Morgan because Piers allowed Zimmerman's brother to present Zimmerman's side. Black activists have a clear strategy to present a one sided view in an outright attempt to prejudice any potential jurors. But the actual facts are so lopsided in Zimmerman's favor that Zimmerman will be acquitted. When that happens, I hope the the black activists will then not claim that justice did not take the proper course.
What does your post have to do with article??? Don't beat a dead horse!!
REALLY. Stay focused and on topic, which is HAZING. Not every venue is a forum for someone to champion their favorite cause.
As for hazing, it has been illegal for years. "Any act that tends to degrade. . . " is part of the statute's language. The band should be dismantled. Applying logical and natural consequences are needed here. Some have hidden behind the mantle of anonymity the group has afforded them. Remove it and expose their activities to the light of accountability.
Does anyone remember a movie with a young Gregory Harrison pledging to a fraternity who had to swallow a piece of raw liver attached to a string? Of course the string broke and his character choked to death. (Before Heimlich). This incident portrayed dramatically was partly responsible for the spate of necessary legislation banning all hazing. And yet it continues? What happened to noble, selfless acts as a tradition instead?
What are you talking about? Did you read this article? Or did you just see a black face and couldn't help yourself? What is wrong with you??
.. another story from Florida
Why sue the bus company? They don't control the band--the provide transportation for it. This hazing is totally unacceptable but the bus company's vehicle was just the setting--when the student was found. Target the real culprits--the university and the hazers!
Get a clue. The bus company is responsible for what happens on the bus, just like you're responsible for what happens to people in your car (even when you're not driving it). Yet in your backwards logic, you find the university responsible. The bus driver should have ordered the students to leave the bus, and reported the beating.
A bus is not just a "setting". For one thing, as Rob said, when you own a vehicle you are responsible for what happens in it or because of it. The company owns the bus, and for the time that the bus is in the care of the bus driver, they too are held as owners of the vehicle. For a second thing, being a bus driver is not just sitting behind a wheel and driving, and then going about your business. Bus companies, especially when they are being chartered by schools, have strict policies they are supposed to follow. For one thing, students should never EVER be left unattended on a bus for any length of time. Yes, this was due to violence from members of the band, but any number of things could have happened, and just like this boy (and those members who possibly opposed what was going on and tried to help afterward, I don't know if there were any but if there are, they count too) were victims left to fend for themselves.
When I was in band in highschool we took a trip from Nebraska to Colorado, and not once were were left alone on the bus. If the bus driver was not there, then one of the three adults who were in charge were on the bus. At one point, though it was freezing outside and it was dark and we were all tired and cranky, we were forced to get off the bus and stand along the side of it (at a rest stop, not just along the side of the road) because there was a situation in which we could not remain on the bus and be watched at the same time, due to the fact there were two busses and the adults were needed somewhere (I do believe it was a situation in which someone was having a severe allergic reaction to something). We had to stand in the cold for about half and hour because the people who were supposed to protect us (from others and from ourselves) were responsible enough to make sure they did by watching us. Even though there was no possibility of violence among us on that bus, and they knew that, and the closest any member of the band ever got to any kind of violence was in reaction to how someone else was treating a fellow band member, there was still the possibility of something stupid happening that could have been bad. Just as an example, a few of us could have gotten to goofing around and in the process fallen and hit our head, or snapped an ankle, or any number of stupid things. In such an incident, those who were SUPPOSED to watch over us (the faculty and the bus drivers and any other bus company employees) would be found at fault, as they should be.
This is a horrible thing that happened, and anyone and everyone that should have been in a place to keep it from happening should be held accountable. We deserve to demand that kind of care and responsibility from those we employ in positions of authority. Bus drivers have the right to refuse to transport certain people if they feel they are some form of threat to themselves or the bus or others. Most importantly though, had there been anyone on that bus that should have been protecting those members of the band, this would not have happened. And if there WAS someone on that bus that should have been responsible and had the authority to step up and tell them to stop what they were doing, and they did nothing, they should be charged as the members of the band have been, possibly even harsher, because they not only let it happen, but, even worse, gave the signal that it was OKAY.
Sorry, repeat post apparently...Silly computers.
Why sue the bus company? They had nothing to do with it. Even if the driver was present, he or she is not responsible for the band members' actions. Go after the real culprits--the hazers and the University that permitted this activity.
Why sue the bus company? Did the beating take place on the bus? Did the bus driver witness it? With a bus load of rambunctious people/kids, a bus driver can not be expected to see or know everything going on. His job is to watch the road not the passengers. Where were the chaperons during all of this? If you have to sue anyone for your child's death, at least have the integrity to sue the right people. Or is this just another case where the parents are more concerned about getting money instead of their son's killers?
Wrong...the bus company is responsible for the behavior of students riding the bus; this is standard. Also, if you read the article, yes, the beating took place on the bus. And yes, the driver IS expected to see and know everything that's going on. There are tons of rules they have to follow, and clearly this bus driver ignored the beating.
going to require all employees to report hazing, try having it required that they call 911 and stay on the scene. Band director should be charged as well for not seeing to the safety of all the kids entrusted to him.
Mark 1751582--
Apparently you didn't see the opinions of two voice evaluation experts who used science, not just ears, to assess the screams. They measured the voice characteristics of Zimmerman--didn't have Trayvon to evaluate of course since Zimmerman took care of that. Then compared with the screams. The screams are NOT Zimmerman. Why are you so wanting to hold with Zimmerman? Racism, NRA supporter, radical right wingnut? I don't understand people who want so desperately to believe that Zimmerman acted in his own defense. The trial may determine that, but it is right that he was arrested. Also, if we understand the stats on arrest, the race of the victim is the single most predictive factor (again per scientific studies) as to whether an assailant is arrested. White victim will get you arrested almost universally. Black victim--much less likely to arrest the assailant because the assumption is, the victim was doing something wrong (like wearing a hoodie or walking home in his own neighborhood with Skittles and an Arizona Tea). Would be interesting to appraise your attitude by placing yourself in those parents shoes. If you have a child, would you not presume that a person who killed him/her would be detained at least long enough to look at the facts of the case--his story vs. the evidence but eye witness (the most unreliable) to blood spatter/type, crime scene findings, and whether the assailant and victim's presentation is consistent with the story given. If one looks closely at Zimmerman, it is fairly obvious that he didn't look beaten. Can't tell if there is spatter but the police at least should have confiscated his jacket for analysis, and tried to find witnesses in the community which they did not. The first people to interview the neighbors were the FBI agents sent from the federal agency. Florida was very remiss in their handling of this situation. Please try to open your mind to think about your attitude if it was your beloved child.
What does your post have to do with article??? Don't beat a dead horse!!
why are you even talking about this other case when it has nothing to do with this beating????
Nancy!
Why are you so set on the idea that Zimmerman is obviously guilty? Your inference that I may be racist or a wing-nut not acceptable and I expect you to issue an immediate apology.
You need to open your mind to the possibility that you have been exposed to only one side of the issue espoused by those who intentionally are trying to present a distorted view.
Zimmerman did in fact look beaten and it appears that you did not know that the media intentionally doctored the video to hide Zimmerman's injuries. On an undoctored video I clearly saw a head wound. A photo has been released showing Zimmerman's bloody head.
I did indeed know about the so called voice expert opinions but their opinions fly in the face of all the other evidence. The police and an eye witness thought the screams were Zimmerman's. The expert who based his opinion on his own ear said the high pitch scream wasn't from a grown man. Turns out Zimmerman had a higher pitch than Trayvon. Oops! Guess the expert wasn't such an expert after all. The other expert said there was a 48 percent match between the scream and Zimmerman’s voice. Sounds like a pretty good match between a talking Zimmerman and a Zimmerman screaming for his. Oops! Maybe this guy isn’t such an expert either. Trayvon's own father said the screams were not Trayvon's. Injuries are consistent only with Zimmerman screaming.
Below is some info about the so called expert Owen. Given the fact that media had already doctored video and audio to prejudice the case against Zimmerman, it is pretty clear that the media again used a non expert to frame Zimmerman in the public's eye. The software Owen used is his own, which he will sell to you for thousands of dollars.
"Tom Owen. Is he really a 'forensics expert?' Well, no. He has a B.A. in History, not forensics.
But surely they have an advanced forensic acoustics laboratory where they conduct their forensic analysis right? No, they just have a computer in the basement of their house in New Jersey right next to the railroad tracks.
But surely he's a member of the American Board of Recorded Evidence? Yes, but he and his wife run the Board. He's the chairman, and she's a board member. The Board is run out of a weight-loss clinic in Springfield, Missouri along with a bunch of other dubious "boards," "colleges" and "Institutes."
American Board for Certification in Homeland Security - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
American Association for Integrative Medicine Inc - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
American College of Forensic Examiners International - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MOC
College of Wellness - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
American Psychotherapy Association - Address: 2750 East Sunshine St. Springfield, MO
There are no colleges or real boards here. There's a fat farm weight loss clinic at that location. They appear to have certified themselves experts by running this board themselves."
Mark--I take it that you and Nancy are paid by the post and that you are copy/pasting over materials to different forums on MSN in order to make, what, a dime per post? I know that there are jobs for people who will create activity on discussion boards--but, seriously, couldn't you at least bother to read the article?
And, Nancy, try to let Mark post first when you are copy/pasting over--it really looks silly when you "talk back" to him before he has said anything.
Yes, Owen sounds kind of bogus--but there was more than one person who ran the program. Any person who has a program and can run a tape can find out information. The tape is available straight from the police department. If you want to buy the software (and it's pretty good software), you could run the analysis yourself. Go ahead.
I am very much hoping that someone had a camera trained on their backyard because of recent burglaries and that a clear picture of Zimmerman, standing over Martin, pointing a gun at him will be found. I also hope that the stains on his shirt (of which there appeared to be none in the police video) will demonstrate that the shot was fired at a distance and not during an altercation as Zimmerman has claimed. With that evidence, he'll be found guilty of manslaughter. Without it, he might get something like reckless endangerment. But, anyone who hasn't noticed that the broken-nosed Zimmerman has suddenly stopped talking about his broken nose and his head being theoretically beaten on a sidewalk hasn't been paying attention.
A good camera shot will solve the whole thing--I hope like heck that they found it. But, yeah, can we talk about this hazing death, please? Not all deaths of young black men in Florida have to do with Martin.
@beanathome...well said!
Thank you Mark for the details on Owne the expert witness, glad you exposed him as a fraud.
Nancy and Mark get with the program. This forum has nothing to do with Zimmerman case and is separate from band member being beaten to death. Take your case to Court please and stick with current subject that is discussed here. You both should have your hands slapped for typing in wrong forum area.
GOOD!
No one deserves this sort of treatment...Anywhere.
HAZING is a culture where "wannabes" with no self esteem run amok.
Again, gang mentality (I do not mean blacks) where people do things in a pack they would never do alone.
Sue every bastard that is liable for this episode.
Can this culture be put to an end? Once the bands are up and functioning how long will it be before the hazing begins again? Is there a process to report hazing anonymously? Which band instructor can you trust?
The hazing all over the country has to stop. It is bullying pure and simple. If you can play a musical instrument well you've already paid your dues.
Why sue anyone? The bus company was not responsible for the actions of the band members just because they happened to be on one of their buses. (Though I do feel the bus driver could be partially responsible, as it is rumored she stood outside the bus doors to ensure no one got on or off the bus during the time of the hazing ritual.) Same with the university. They are not responsible for the actions of the band members just because they happen to be students at the university. No one wants to acknowledge the fact that these are not children who needed parental permission and were "entrusted" to "chaperones" to be watched. These are adults. Robert was 26. He made a decision to get on that bus knowing that he was going to be hazed. He could have very easily gone to his room when they got back to the hotel as he had the previous six years he had been a part of the band. But he did not. He went to bus C (the ritual is known as "Crossing Bus C") to be beaten and it ultimately cost him his life. Those that participated will be prosecuted, as they should be. And if the family wants to sue those individuals, fine by me, but don't point fingers at other parties looking for a pay day. The university can no more prevent hazing from happening than the police can prevent crime. Are we now going to start suing police departments and municipalities because a crime was committed against us? The thought is ridiculous. I am glad charges are forthcoming. The investigation took entirely too long in my opinion, but I understand why. Now maybe justice can be served and Robert can rest in peace.
To Sunrise: You are contradicting yourself. First you ask why sue anyone, then you say the bus driver stood outside the bus to ensure privacy while the hazing occurred. The bus driver represents the bus company from a professional and legal perspective so why not sue them?
I don't believe in suing those not directly involved. Period! That's not a contradiction. When I said why sue anyone I was referring only to the bus company and the university, as those were the only two that had been mentioned at the time of my posting. Sue the bus driver then if you must sue someone. People see dollar signs and go crazy. If your co-worker comes into work and shoots you are you going to sue your employer because your co-worker "represents [your place of employment] from a professional and legal perspective"? We are in a time when people like to point the finger at everyone except those responsible. Especially when it means a possible payout. Sad.
The bottom line is this should have never happened. My heart goes out to his parents. And everyone envolved in his death needs to be held accountable...RIP
I was a member of a national championship-caliber high school marching band for four years, and a member of a university marching band in 1979. When I was in school, hazing (or initiation, as they used to call it) consisted of something embarrassing like wearing your hat backwards or going to the guys' dorm in your nightgown, which was bad enough. And, since when are 26-year-old drum majors hazed? Drum major is a leadership role in a marching band. I don't like hazing in any form. What is wrong with this generation of young adults that they do not understand that beating a person to death is a crime? Not only is it the worst crime one can commit, it is the worst sin one can commit, as well. I have worked for many years at a local junior college, and let me tell you, the maturity level of college students has been in a major state of decline for a long time. People wonder why. Well, they don't get any discipline from their parents anymore (at least not the right kind of discipline) because discipline is considered abusive; most of them don't come from a nuclear family, so there is no consistent male role model; most of them don't have religion, so there is no sense of right and wrong; they don't get discipline in grade school; and they don't get it in high school, either. So the result is a whole generation of entitled people with no manners, no sense of appropriateness, no respect for others, and most of all, no morals.
Picky 1 just nailed it. Well said.
I think you're misusing the word discipline there. The correct word is punishment. Discipline is something that is taught or learned, not an action taken against a person. This assumption that physically harming your children as punishment is "the right kind" is exactly what's wrong with the world, and the generation of "nuclear families" in particular. In fact, large amounts of the men that grew up in these nuclear family surrounding have become alcoholic, abusive, psychologically impaired, and in some cases homicidal, because their upbringing teaches them that it's not alright to ever show emotion. So they just hold it in and bottle it up until suddenly they can't take it anymore so they turn to drugs, or subtly beat their families for reason's such as "that's how my daddy taught me." And finally I turn my attention to your assumption that religion is required for a system of values. This is flawed in ways I can't even number. Belief in a god is not a prerequisite of knowing that it's wrong to kill other people, or to take things that belong to someone else, or to attack others (be it verbally or physically). This conservative chauvinism is getting old. Just because we weren't raised the same as you were doesn't mean we were raised wrong. Blame our generation all you want, but the real problem with the world is that we didn't come along soon enough. Consider this: except for the few "exemplary" cases that coat the news (which they are, because in the larger scheme, these examples are few and far between) this generation which grew up with no subtext of violence, or blind devotion, is perhaps the perfect one to garner peace throughout the world. And, even if we don't, we're just the beginning, our children will be even more able to complete our campaign of peace throughout the world.
I am not sure Picky was awake during her time in college, well, Jr. college. There is not one correct passage in her post.
I have to question any person that believes religion is required for knowing right from wrong does not know much about religion, history or psychology!!!
It seems like all I read about is something bad happening in Florida. People killing people everywhere in that State. What is wrong with the State of Florida ?
They are too close to the Bermuda Triangle...LOL
DJ,s here play a game called "Germany or Florida" They tell an insane story and you have to guess. Funny thing is the most ignorant ones are almost always from Florida. Odd that Florida gives the dirty South a bad name....
I went through weeks of hazing during my college fraternity initiation and am surprised that anything that included bleeding and serious blows to the head is called "hazing." If that's hazing, when someone's shot why not the defense: "I was just hazing him"?
The purpose of hazing is to form a bond among the inductees and hazing does serve that purpose, but causing physical damage seems to me to serve another, darker, purpose for the benefit of certain jerks inflicting it.
We had to put up with the old paddle "Thank you, sir. May I have another?" routine -it was never applied fiercely, we had to eat food dyed an ugly green saying "Yummers" before each bite, we had to catch and swallow raw eggs during our final night of humiliation, etc. but we were never physically threatened.
Again, "hazing" in term of college practice should not include blood, etc. That's simply assault and battery.
Hazing can be ugly, dangerous, and humiliating, but, it is a voluntary activity. No one forces the participants to do it. I am sorry that he died, but homeboy must have agreed to the ritual.
I hope you have the same attitude if it is one of your kids!!!! Don't tell me they are too smart because I can tell by the racists tinge to your post that they can't be too bright!!
Your wrong, ever hear of peer pressure.
"Homeboy" was against hazing because he thought it crude. Hazing is not in any way a strictly voluntary activity. It can be in many instances, yes, where it is a rite of passage in order to join a group you desperately want to join. This was not one of those. He joined a band at a school, not an outside group of people who he personally wanted to bond with and become close friends with. When violence is a part of the "hazing" very few participants actually agree to it. Silence is not consent. Shame and fear and the NEED to be accepted (which can be because you don't want to be alone in something or because you're literally afraid of the people in this group if you do not let them do what they must to decide you are "cool enough") can cause many people to hold their tongues when they are hazed, or let's use the correct term, abused and assaulted by those they should be able to trust. In the highschool I went to being hazed by a group of people you felt you needed to have like you to survive (because that's how it felt when you were a freshman in that school) was a very scary thing, because it was known to get violent from time to time. I was lucky enough not to have to worry about that when I got to that part of the stupid highschool thing, because I had "graduated" from my middle school band into the marching band, and they had already hazed me in their standard way during the summer practice months before school started (which lucky for me was nothing more than being blindfolded and led through the unfamiliar school by the hand, and then "abandoned" to see if I would figure out how to back track in memory to the band room or if they would have to come find me). Without the band already being my group, I would have been scared (as my little sister was years later before the ROTC people claimed her in their group) of what group of people would decide to "let" me join them and what their hazing would be. More so though, I would have been scared of what rejecting that group would have meant, because it's one thing to stand alone because no one wants you, and a completely different thing to stand alone because you want no one. That tends to be seen as you feeling you're too good for that group, and that's never a good thing.
Seems most of you have short memories when it to FAMU and the Marching Rattlers. Pardon the pun but its time to call the kettle black.. This wonderfully charming bunch of FAMU angels were caught red-handed (or black-handed) shoplifting thousands of dollars of merchandise from merchants in Japan when they toured there a few years back. To make things worse, they DENIED the thefts until confrnted by Japanese police and university staff members. These grand and glourius folks are now working amongst you in Florida today. Such pride this school has for and with its students. The university regents and staff always seem to be "above" the situation...or???? are they part of the problem? Years ago I was told "the neck of the bottle is at the top." Not so anymore...blame the kids. Are the university, the band leaders, chaparones, and bus company folks responsible...YES, they are participated...some actively, some tactily. If the bus driver cannot control college students activities on the bus, they pull off the road and call 911. That is why we have social control rules. Why did the university not assign responsible staff members as chaparones on the bus? Who on the bus would be responsible if a student had an accident? a seizure? an assualt (rape or such)? some doufus who cant control his/her own actions? These are tomorrows leaders? They look at the goon in Washington saying if its good enough for him? its good enough for us.
Read the papers (if ya can), take into account a few lesser-known university coaches and professors who are terminate due to improper actions on or off campus. Fired, zapped, out the door, immediately. But FAMU continues to bury its own dead with no recourse the public, we the tax payers who support the school, or families of violated students.
Wake up and smell the cesspool.
TommyD-301644, You mean the "GOONS" in Washington,DC don't you??? It is plural not singular. One man does not a "S" pool make. No, and it is not good enough for him, but he was left the cesspool by you know who; All of Washington, DC is a mess of vipers, and we put the most dangerous of the lot in office in January. Have you noticed how many jobs, they created?? We did not elect the gestop to fight only against things, but for things that would help the economy. The CESSPOOL has widen and deepen, and I'm paying more taxes. No, it is not for the schools, but for Congress and the House to get raises they don't deserve. Hazing is bad whether in school or the military, I got beat in both, any military officer will tell you, they get beat too. I'm sorry for this young man's death, the same way I was for Trayvon Martin. It is my hope that somehow, and in someway, people will learn to respect others, and not do to another, something that you would want done to you.
The_Mick, I agree with you. I went through Frat initiation just like you described above. The worst they let us do was chew one hot red pepper and pass around mouth-to-mouth. Terrible. But for some who beat members to death are nothing but sadistic jerks who get off of seeing someone physically suffer.
I'm so sorry this tragedy happened to the family who lost their son.
what the hell kind of "hazing" involves beating someone to death or to the point of breaking bones? Sorry, I wouldn't call this hazing. It's more like a gang initiation. I'm so sad for that poor kid and his family. Horrible and senseless.
Why is the band director Julian White on paid leave?
Should be fired outright and prosecuted.
Same for the bus company and driver.
Disban the band they don't deserve to play.
Bands are for music, what does beating band members have to do with anything.
Hazing is stupid.
No one should accept or condone it.
Report hazing immediately.
The University President and others need to be fired.
Picky1, actually, this generation is among the least violent in decades. And, if I recall correctly, certain religious groups of former generations, namely the KKK, have treated our African American neighbors with the same degree of violence shown to this young man, but it was much more common and those responsible were seldom held responsible. I for one am grateful we have made some progress since your time.
I also would like to point out that this young man was targeting for speaking out against the hazing practices of his peers. It reminds me of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr's famous words: "Yes, if you want to say that I was a drum major, say that I was a drum major for justice. Say that I was a drum major for peace. I was a drum major for righteousness." I hope the family can find some solace knowing that their son spoke up.