Just about every US citizen and legal resident alien who rents property can be charged with exactly the same charge. The form 8300(read about it in Pub 1544 at irs.gov requires reporting transactions from 1 individual for their trade or business (and being a landlord, renting property is a business) that are greater than $10,000 in cash (which includes checks - all forms, even if it is merely $10,000.01) over the course of a calendar year, not just in 1 payment. That means that every mortgage holder or landlord needs ro file for mortgages or rent over $833/month (or the quivalent) must report any transactions or combination of transactions (whether the cash is obtained from a back account or a loan from a third party) to the IRS.

That means that if you pay more than $833.33333/month for your mortgage or rent, that form 8300 is required to be filed by your landlord/mortgage holder reporting YOU to the IRS as well as any other business, legal or illegal.

The amount of $10,000 was established when the average annual middle class income that supported the purchace of a home, 2 cars and a picket fence was merely $6,000 (1950s). Hence the amount was almost twice that of the annual income of the average middle class citizen during the 1950s. The form 8300 remained and the amount of $10,000 remained consistent regardless of the fact the average annual middle class income has increased ten-fold. Now it is merely a government tool to track the average citizen who spends money and transfers that money to another who is in a trade or business.

Form 8300 was created to identify the laundering of mob/mafia/illegal monies ... to keep tabs on citizens who were hiding funds gained illegally through organized crime. Anyone spending almost twice the annual income of a middle class citizen/legal resident was suspicious ... and in 1950, $10,000 was a good amount to utilize. But it hasnt changed since the 50's Now, it should be twice the average annual income of the middle class population to maintain the purpose of why it was legislated into law. Instead, it is barely 1/6th of the average annual income of the middle class, and is much greater than most landlords or mortgage holders collect in 1 year from 1 individual. It has become a tool to watch the general populace (even most individuals on welfare pays greater than $10,000/yr in rent to their landlord through housing assistance programs, and renting property is indeed a business).

Most self employed individuals fall into this same category. Want to redo your kitchen, and you pay your remodeling/construction company more than $10,000 (a modest cost for a remodeld kitchen or a new garage) - the IRS wants to know, which means Congress wants that data.

And everyone thought the Patriot Act was the beginning of an invasion to our privacy! This has been going on since McCarthyism and the FBI began in the 50's, just getting progressively more intrusive and obvious.

Publication 1544 is rather complicated. However, there are a couple of corrections to what you indicated. You stated Calendar year. It is actually a rolling 12 month period. Calendar year is from January 1st to December 31st. By saying Calendar year, you imply that someone could pay $10,000.01 on December 31st and more on January 1st, and avoid the reporting requirement. That is not correct.

You also mentioned payments to landlord for rent require reporting. This is also not correct, as checks from a checking account, the most common form of payment for rent, is not considered "Cash" for the purpose of reporting ("Cash does not include a check drawn on an individual's personal account.").

There does appear to be some loopholes for the reporting requirements. However, they always have the option to charge all of the parties with "not reporting suspicious transactions". The penalties for this are substantial. BTW, the so-called Patriots Act expanded this requirement substantially.

Nonsense!

Yo, "interested observer", he filed charges against the U.S. Government AFTER he was held in the UAE and put on the "No Fly" list. Try reading the freaking articles before you open your yap and show everyone that you have already inserted your foot in your piehole.

Oh, and since you seem to have some sort of "inside information" showing that he really is guilty of what he's been charged with -- it is your responsibility to share that information. Without it, YOU are the one blowing smoke.

@ interested observer

It happens all the time especially at the local level. I know, I have been involved in local politics for a few years and supported a recall and removal of a State Senate President here in Arizona. I was hit by an illegal immigrant in a car accident. Instead of the illegal getting arrested, I was and charged with giving false information. To this day, I have zero idea what I said or why I was charged when I was the victim. I was told by my lawyers that it was political and retribution because I pissed someone off at the city police department. So I do believe this is retaliation by the government.

Interested Observer - read the pub 1544. Yes, if someone is paid $10,000.91 in week, that form must be filed at the end of the week, however, PLEASE CONTINUE READING.

If someone pays monthly payments that total over $10,000 by the end of a 12 month period (a year), THAT MUST BE REPORTED since it occurred within a 1 year span. My point, which obviously seems was oblivious to YOU, was that most renters and home owners who have a mortgage would be the subject of such Form 8300 reporting if they paid more than $833.33333/month since that would total more than $10,000 in 1 given 12 month period from renter to landlord or homeowner to mortgage holder.

and yes, if tomorrow someone paid you over $10,000 in one lump sum, you would have a mere 15 days to file that form 8300.

However, if they made 12 monthly payments to you for a related "service" (such as home occupancy) over the course of 12 months to total over $10,000., once you received that last payment bringing that year's receipts a grand total of more than $10,000., then you must file form 8300. If however, the payee is "late" with his payment and you get it a week late, that enters grey area since a total of $10,000 wasnt received within a 12 month span, yet it was actually due within a 12 month span.

sorry observer, I intended my response to Chirico. Yes, even checks from a personal account in excess of $10,000 are subject to that form 8300 reporting, unless it is a certified bank check, which the bank reports to the IRS instead of the reciepient.

Again, READ THE ENTIRE Pub 1544. Only a fool intent on "shooting him/her self in the foot" only reads a paragraph or 2 and relies on it alone when dealing with tax issues.

Recycled

I have had many years in which I have deposited well over $10,000 within a 12 month period and I have never had a bank report me to the IRS or fill out a 8300 on me. However I do report all of those funds on my tax returns if they come from earnings.

Who cares?

The law on structuring money transfers is complete nonsense. If I give $15,000 to one of my children over the dourse of a year in several transfers, it would appear that I am in violation of the law. How many parents are technically criminals?

"It sends the message to the community and people on the no-fly list that there will be retaliation,"

It also sends the message that if you break the law, you might be prosecuted.

US would love to be able to torture whoever they want and get away with it. And the government will do what it can to cover their butt - if they throw enough legal crap at the victims seeking compensation, maybe they will strike a bargain with them - we drop our charges if you drop yours. Nothing more, nothing less.

Typical of this phucking Police State and it's tactics.....they 'ask' you to become an informant for them (in other words a rat) and when you refuse they send you off to be tortured so you'll either admit to anything they want or they turn you into a tamed, trained mouse. They finally release this guy without finding anything on him or getting him to turn into an informant and seeks asylum in Sweden as the US Government put him on the no-fly list thereby not allowing him to get back home. So he seeks asylum in Sweden where he asserts that he was tortured at the behest of the FBI/US Government for the above mentioned reasons and for exposing their 'dirty little secrets' they trump up some 'money-transfer' charges to get him extradited and sent back to the US where they could silence him for good, one way or another. I notice no terrorist charges were laid and after the alleged torture was released without being charged there too.

I think what his lawyer says is 100% true.......

"Frankly, I think its retaliation and retribution," Fikre’s attorney, Thomas Nelson in Portland, said of the indictment.

These phucks in Government have got be made to realize that we're not all stupid and take their word for anything anymore. The US Government has lied, deceived and manipulated the public and news media so much that 100% of what they say is bullsh!t and lies. Usually I don't take the sides of people accused of terrorism (not that I believe what the Government says) but I believe this is an instant where charges were trumped up and the Government/FBI were caught torturing a US citizen and making up stories about him and family/friends.

They are already not allowing him back. To me, it looks like spurious charges because they want to steal his money. And they don't want him present in court to defend against the fraudulent charges.

The prosecution argues that Fikre's brother, Woldehawaria, 31, is a flight risk, so he is being held without bail.

This makes as much sense as the charges against Yonas Firke. If he is on the no fly list, is he supposed to walk to Europe? More double talk, more smoke and mirrors, more BS period. File charges because he won't help be a rat like the FBI wants, on what sure seems like questionable evidence.

Both these guys may be guilty as sin but that does not excuse the heavy handed treatment from the government. If they can trump up charges against these guys with the flimsiest of evidence, what do you think that they could do to any other person if they wanted to?

That people condone the government actions of breaking the constitution, is truly appalling. So much for land of the free and home of the brave. Not much bravery being shown by the government or of the citizens. The freedom and liberties are being limited more and more everyday under the guise of the war on terror.

You have a better chance of hitting the lottery 2 days in a row than you do if being blown up by a terrorist yet the cowards scream for the all too willing government to protect us from fear. There is a lot more to fear from the government than there is a terrorist. People need to open their eyes and see that the government is the biggest terrorist of all and that the terrorists couldn't have done squat to harm us as much as the government has.

Time to make politicians accountable to the people and stop this BS war on citizens rights.

In the last few weeks we have heard about corruption in nearly government agency, yet some fools believe everything the government says.

Still believe their were weapons of mass destruction? do you believe the CIA didn't lie, when anybody with google maps could have known otherwise.

Our entire government is becoming a vast criminal origination

What do you mean becoming, It already is

I am not saying the entire FBI or law enforcement etc is corrupt, BUT sweetie, you are living in a world while wearing rose-colored glasses if you REFUSE to even acknowledge that governments and agencies are made up of PEOPLE not ROBOTS. Yes, they lie and YES they make the choice to destroy innocent lives.

We ALL want security and safety, but that does NOT give you an excuse for failing to question right from wrong. Someday when you find yourself down the rabbit hole, don't ask for or expect help from anyone. You will have gotten exactly what you deserve!

One would also think that the Secret Service had more to do then chase hookers and do shots all night.......................

I thought there had to be more to the Iraq invasion than just the obviously sexed up baloney we were told. I was wrong.

this security you seek is all in your head while we march twords the end of our nation and that is not an exaggeration. Only a fool trades freedom for the illusion of security.

'TR' Rose II;

""I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
-- Thomas Jefferson

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." --attributed to Benjamin Franklin

I think you, 'TR", have given up essential Liberty to obtain a little temporary safety.

It's like on some documentary I watched where an interviewer went around on the streets and asked random people if they would give up their liberty to protect their freedom... It was amazing how many people said "yes" ... We live in a world of complete dolts...

TR Yes, you do "look silly even commenting on stuff just like this!"

'TR' Rose II

I would rather have my liberties an freedom than security. Security is an illusion.

It was amazing how many people said "yes" ... We live in a world of complete dolts...

Just goes to show us all that they have the wool pulled over a good many eyes

So,waht people are saying is,he must be guilty becuase the government accused him. Thats absurd. They could be mistaken. Someone could have a grudge. We have a legal system and a constitution and EVERYONE is innocent until proven guilty,yet they put this guy on a now fly list and wont let him return to the US. Hes a US citizen,I dont care if hes naturalized or not. Once we gave him citzenship,hes protected by the constitution.

Imagine its the 1970s again,except we have the patriot act. Nixon decides he needs to silence Woodward and Bernstein. The take a trip to Germany for a story. He puts them on the no fly list. Now they cant return to the US,much less meet with their contact. They have no recourse to get off the no fly list as the US wont even acknowledge they are on it. Then he accuses them of conspiring with terrorists and indicts them. They are now fugitives who no country will even accept past their borders. Undetered,they have a collegue meet with Deep Throat,and they write the article off the interview and phone it in to the paper. Nixon decides they have to be silenced once and for all.

Even though they are American citizens,he orders a CIA hit team to eliminate them. He does not even hide it. He simply says that the government has secret evidence that they were colluding with communist backed terrorists. The implication is that the articles were simply lies meant to destabilize the govenment although he claims that there were far more overt acts that would have led to the deaths of dozens if not hundreds of Americans. His evidence? Well,thats secret. He simply cites executive privilage,and refuses to divulge it. Today,that would have worked. Its been done dozens of times,with people who are accused of terrorism.

Are these people terrorists. I think most probably are. Some may have been only peripherally involved (for instance,if your brother is funding terrorists,and you send him 1000 dollars that he forwards to them,even if you didnt know what he wanted it for,your on the list) and a few were probably honest mistakes. What scares me though is,ANYONE could be accused. Anyone. There is no way for someone who is accused to clear their name.

If you for instance had pictures of the president snorting cocaine off a couple of underaged prostitutes and taking a suitecase full of money from a known boss of the russian mob in a hotel room,would you want to bet money that he would not simply accuse you of being a terrorist,and make you dissapear into a navy brig somewhere in Virginia. I guarentee after a few weeks of "enhanced interrogation" your minds going to get so fuzzy and confused,your going to think that turning those pictures over to him is going to be the only way your ever getting out,and then once that happens,hes going to throw you in the deepest darkest hole he can find. Yes,your family will probably get you a lawyer,but that wont do any good,he wont even get to meet with you,and no one will ever even have to tell him or anyone else what the evidence against you is.

To me thats scary.

The only things you have to fear are "fear itself" and the government that tries to protect you from it.

TR,yes MOST of the FBI has more to do than make up allegations. However,there are probably people with nothing better to do. I doubt they make it up. Its a bueracracy. What happens is that someone suspects someone. Now other people investigate and the suspicion spreads like a virus. He gets on lists. People are assigned to go question him. They dont know if hes guilty or inocent. They dont care,its not their job to care. They just give him the third degree becuase thats what they were told to do.

Somewhere,there is an office,started under the Bush administration,and probably going on autopilot. It was probably set up that way to give the president deniability. Its chain of command is probably so long and conveluted,no one really knows whose in charge of it. It was made that way so that really,no one would be blamed for what they do. They do "enhanced interrogations",a euphamism for torture. Their job is to extract "actionable intelligence" from terrorists supects.

They probably get lists of such people from other agencies. The other agencies dont know why this office has access to their list,and dont care,becuase dozens of agencies have access through the new information sharing systems built after 9-11.They may not even know the specific reasons the person was put on the list They look for people they think might have usefull information,probably based on a few breif notes attached to each name (for example,there might be an entry "Muhammed Hussein Ahmir, funneling money through charities to Hezbola" There is no explantion for why they think that,the extend of the connections or how he was involved.

Still,someone will have their contacts in countries like yemen,or egypt or syria pick them up and torture them for information and ask a list of questions they provide. In some countries they have people picked up by independant operators and smuggled out or picked up by the police on warrants and then extradited to other countries with more lenient policies. (becuase they dont have the contacts to have them tortured there,for instance,the Germans or the French wont do it,but they might extradite them on a secret Greek warrant,who will extradite them on a secret Turkish warrant,who will ship them to Syria)

The people orchastrating this probably dont even know or care what the whole picture is. There might be a guy whos job it is to get people shipped from Germany to Greece,and another who ships people from Greece to Syria. Another guy is simply informed that the Syrians have a "terrorist suspect in custody" and he looks up what we know of him and what we think he might know and sends the Syrians a list of questions.

Chances are,it was all set up by people who are no longer even in the agency. The parts of the machine just keep going,hirning new people to fill vacancies. Scouring lists for people that meet certain criteria to call them "suspects" shipping them around ,putting them on lists. Yes,they have nothing better to do.

Think of them like ants. Imagine a doughnut. Thousands of ants make a journey to the doughnut. Take the dougnut away,and they still make the journey to where it was. Dont the ants have anything to do but walk out to an empty plate,then back to the hill and then do it again? They are simply cogs in a machine that is much greater than the parts. Thats how very large beuracratic organizations work sometimes.

@TR ROSE,

Only the stupid give up freedom for so-called security without proof

Let me protect myself from these 'terrorists' that are all out to blow us up and let them get on with running the Government instead of restrcting my rights. the real terrorists are the US Government and all its little minions...the Police State is here my friiends and it's time they feared the people instead of the other way about...the common people have more guns than the Police and when puish comes to shove the cops will be on the losing end believe you me.

Just proves that if our government wants your life to be over, it's over. I remember reading his story and knowing that something like this would be coming his way soon.

Sabine, for $75,000, you can finance lots of terrorist acts. Hell, in the US you can do a lot of damage for that money. What did it cost the 9/11 terrorists? A couple of plane tickets and some class time learning how to steer a plane in flight.

$75,000? Where did they get the money? Why did they try to avoid informing the FEDS?

Anyone that wants to make a business investment ESPECIALLY in the Third World had better get a good business attorney to make sure that they are doing everything correctly, and don't violate any laws.

But really, to these guys, $75k is a HUGE amount of money.

Come on, use your head.

Logistics man. You can't pull off 9/11 with $75k. Granted it doesn't cost a hundred million either...

And overhead.

Coming to a town near you(someday) TSA in the bus depot,TSA at the train stations and after they when people refuse to use public transit they will be on the highways of America (Remember IT IS FOR YOUR SECURITY!) There will be check points at state lines, And they will want your papers an DEMAND to know where you are going an how long you are going for an when will you be going back. Once a government agency is started it Never goes away. The saddest part to all this is our grand-kids will think that this is the norm.

It should be mandatory that they tell people that they are on a no-fly list that is, so as not to waist their time and money,And If they are no that no-fly list and had bought a ticket who repays them for the ticket surely the airline knows your on that list and should have to tell you and not take their money. But sorry guys an gals there is no refund.

I have been saying for years that our government is corrupt, and it doesn't matter which party is in power. I just fear that the Republicans are worse than the Democrats. They have no problem looking you in the eye and lying to you. It started long before the patriot act! But don't get me wrong, Democrats can be just as bad. It is just the fear mongers are better at it, and they don't care if you know or not. They will look you in the eye and ask you, "what you going to do about it?"

Well Stone Cold, if you don't fly because you might be on a list, MAYBE you should not be flying...

You might be on a list too - if not now then in the future. Problem is, this petty little Gestapo doesn't even have to tell you what the no-fly criteria are.

Wow MOSinEUR, nice presumption of guilt. You've done it twice, first with the original story and now with another poster. The government I'm sure has a job for you, you are their kind of person, pretty soon they may even give you a nifty arm band to where, it's been done before and was highly effective. As far as your question, 'where did they get the money', constitutionally speaking, it's none of your or the governments damned business. If I work and save up $75,000 and decide to start a business overseas, that's MY business.

Many of the tactics we are seeing our government use today in the name of fighting terrorism were done before, in Nazi Germany and we all know how well that turned out. What's scary about the way the United States is doing is that rather than having the cult of personality they had in Hitler, we've decentralized and generalized it. And many American people or blithely following along.

MOSinEUR - It's all very well for you to be all sanctimonious and holier-than-thou, because YOU haven't done anything to get you on a no-fly list - as far as you know. And maybe you're right. But what happens when some pencil-pusher decides you go to the wrong church, or have the wrong color skin, or married the wrong person, and therefore shouldn't be allowed to fly, or even to travel out-of-state without permission? And if you think it couldn't happen here, you're WRONG. Remember two things: Adolf Hitler was elected in a democratic election, and Heinrich Himmler started out as a minor civil servant.

You want to wait until they at least CONVICT him before throwing away the key?

Fred Evil,

I believe that akickright is a TROLL. Please do not feed the animal, er' I mean troll!

Who decides it is illegal??? Who made this law?? Did they ask the people?? When was the referandum?? Why should it be illegal?? Where is the freedom?? Why should you ever report your business transactions to anybody??? Tomorrow they are going to pull out a fake reason to accuse anybody they don't like. This is where it is going!! What are you going to do when they come with fake documents and tell you that you moved money from A to B and did not report? How do you know they won't do that??? Why give them a chance at all???

@georgecons,

That's right...you trust and believe the Government at your own peril....they'll phuck you and then tell you, you owe them.

Laws and trouble is generally ALWAYS for the little man, the unimportant people like the 99% of us.

Time will come and change along with it. I'm wondering when that all will happen.

Hey Pete, try reading the article, they ARE Americans, whether you like it or not.

Exaclty. Once we give someone citizenship,he has the same rights as any of us. While this might be a reason to be carefully who we give it to,once its done its done. Its like getting married,once you get married you cant just decide "Oh ,that was a mistake" and kick her to the curb. There are rules and regulations you have to follow.

He made himself subject to those laws when he became a citizen,but when they let him be a citizen they gave him protection of our laws and they have to prove his crimes. At least thats how its supposed to be,but like the fear mongers like to say "Everything changed after 9-11". Well,it did,just not the way they think.

@Michael M,

Agreed...changed for the worst, and now everyone is a suspected 'terrorist' for just living and breathing

you're PARANOID and wrong. It's no wonder though only muslim terrorists call our country "Amerika"

The Federal Reserve and the Banks rule America... who do you think makes the big bucks when we are in a war? Since the Fed was created, our country has been involved in at least 30 wars and/or skirmishes of which they are all too happy to lend our military machine more money with INTEREST than they can spend...

When the banks failed on the mortgage screwups, who got bailed out... instead the government should have bailed out the people who were laid off and lost their homes - it would have cost less than what they gave the banks...

--- Sir Josiah Stamp (1880-1941)

President of the Bank of England & 2nd richest man in Britain

He told you NOT me and I'm paranoid? You are delusional better go to the nearest Hospital.

Ok, so who gassed the tribes in northern Iraq and what did they use...I supposed the survivors were only put to sleep for a while...

Far from protecting America from terrorists, the CIA torturers stooped to the same level as the terrorists. They damaged America's reputation beyond measure and belong in the dock at the Hague for crimes against humanity.

Were you this wound up about gov't illegalities when the criminal Bush cabal was in power? I doubt it.

JFK wanted to take away the right to print money from the Federal Reserve (which is not part of the US Government, you know) and give that permission back to the US Government - well, we all know the result of November 1963... Guess he pissed off more than one person at the Fed...

Check out "Criminal Rothchilds" on youtube. Were so screwed.

The inception of the Federal Reserve was conspired by the top bankers from the US and Europe in a secret meeting at Jeckyl Island (SC). Many congressmen were against it, but because of the money backing this, it was passed and created by deception. Once that foothold was established, it became impossible to eliminate. It became too easy for our government to borrow funds for wars and worry about the interest later... Just that the Fed really was behind these wars, as if they convinced congress that it was the right thing to do - over and over...

Just so you hear it from someone other than idiodic conspiracy theorists who couldn't tell you what the Fed does if their life depended on it: The Fed does not have and never has had the ability to print money. The Department of the Treasury is the only agency with that power and there is no requirement that it even ask the Fed. The Fed can only pull money out of circulation (it has to already be in circulation first) or put money into cirtculation (it has to have been previously printed and pulled out of circulation first.) The Fed does control the money supply. But that control extends only to pulling money out of circulation or puttinbg money previously from circulation back into circulation as a hefge against inflation/deflation. But people with absolutely no knowledge of what the Fed does take that to mean that the Fed prints money. Just simplyt isn't true and never has been true.

Conspiutacy theorists always want you to believe that huge wonderful conspiracies exist that rule the world. And the only people smart enough to know this is ---- ta da --- the conspiracy theorists. If that is the case, why do so many conapiracy theorists live in trailer parks?

Why do Central BANKERS AND THE PEOPLE WHO KNEEL BEFORE THEM lie, can not do simple math,and are almost all jewish? Rothchilds are the current owner of the planet.

Hate the criminal not the nationality.

YOUR QUOTE:

"The Fed does control the money supply. But that control extends only to pulling money out of circulation or putting money previously from circulation back into circulation"

"why do so many conapiracy theorists live in trailer parks?"

A Trailer Trash President?

“Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce…and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.” – President James Garfield, 2 weeks before his assassination.

Thomas Jefferson:

“The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.”

"Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country.

When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin!

Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out."

From the original minutes of the Philadelphia bankers sent to meet with President Jackson February 1834, from Andrew Jackson and the Bank of the United States (1928) by Stan V. Henkels

Save it . The propaganda does not work here.

It's so sad that the majority lament their dependence on money, but go no further in understanding its insidious and planned dominance in our lives. The control of banks and corporations and the slavery to money is the primary issue to be dealt with in this age.

We can't change it because 'city hall' won't let us...

The US has not declared war on any country Muslim, Buddhist, or otherwise. The US had already been in proxy wars in the Mideast and Afghanistan before Bush's misguided invasions.

wordweevil aid:

Islam has yet to show me that the preponderance of its adherents are peace-loving.

Then how did this country get through 200+ years without a 9-11? The majority of American Muslims just want to be left alone. They are no different than you or I, just because they call their God by a different name than you do.

It's what you do that matters, not whose name you do it in.

Bob, the Chinese are VERY racist and will not let an African take refuge in China.

Orthehighway: "...expel suspected terrorists...?" How utterly American of you. I "suspect" you're a terrorist, time to hit the highway. Goodbye and good riddance.

Or the highway said:

I also wish we could expel suspected terrorists

In case you haven't seen it, here's the list of what Homeland Security considers suspected terrorism these days:

Alternative media

Anarchist extremism

Animal rights extremism

Anti-abortion extremism

Anti-immigration extremism

Anti-technology extremism

Aryan prison gangs

Black bloc

Black nationalism

Black power

Black separatism

Christian Identity movement

Cuban independence extremism

Decentralized terror movement

Denial-of-service attacks

Direct action (including lawful acts of civil disobedience)

Environmental extremism

Ethnic extremism

Extremist groups

Green anarchism

Hacktivism (technology-enabled social/political activism)

Hate groups

Jewish extremism

Leaderless resistance

Left-wing extremism

Lone terrorists

Mexican separatists

Militia Movements (including conspiracy theorists)

Neo-Nazis

Patriot Movement

Phineas Priesthood

Primary targeting(directly supporting/funding terrorists)

Puerto Rican independence extremists

Radical Norse mysticism practitioners (Odinists)

Racialists

Right-wing extremists

Single-issue/multiple issue extremist groups

Skinheads whose ‘dress may include shaved head/short hair, jeans, thin suspenders, combat boots or Doc Martens and a bomber jacket’

Sovereign citizen movement

Tax resistance movement

Violent anti-war extremism

Violent religious sects (includes those who stockpile food and weapons)

White Nationalists

White Power advocates

White Supremacists

Oh, and did I mention you may get your wish?

With the passage of the NDAA for FY2012, sections 1031-1033 which will give our government the authority to indefinitely detain anyone suspected of terrorism/acting against the US's interests in a US military prison without charge or trial until the War On Terror is over.

While the NDAA for FY2012 has a provision that would exclude USC's from the mandatory detention rule, a piece of legislation currently coming up through Congress called the Enemy Expatriation Act will allow our government to revoke naturalization for immigrants and strip citizenship from natural-born Americans if they are suspected of terrorism--after which the mandatory military detention clauses of the NDAA for FY2012 kicks in.

So yes, if the EEA passes, they'll be able to expel any suspected terrorists. Now let me point out here that I would fall under that category; I have a weapons stockpile (sword collection); more than 7 days' worth of food in my house; I'm an animal rights advocate and am active in the anti-animal cruelty task force in my municipality; and I do get news and alternate viewpoints from alternate media sources on the net like Huffington Post. I'm also a member of a violet religious sect (all religions espouse violence of some sort against someone) and as a pagan, I do know a few Odinists (who according to this list are a terror threat because of course Odinists are blowing up buildings right and left in between Dungeons & Dragons matches.)

Who are the collective "they"?

If our government really want to reduce Terrorist threats here, all they have to do is take steps to reduce the number of Muslims here.

The collective "they" = our government officials who are too blind to see the evil dangers Islam represents in our society.

We've always had Muslims here since the beginning of the US and have always had good relationships with Muslim countries. Go and read some history books that talk about how some of the slaves were Muslims and also this is the Treaty of Tripoli from 1797: "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility [sic], of Mussulmen [Muslims]; and, as the said States never have entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

Timothy McVeigh, who murdered 168 people in the Oklahoma bombing, was not Muslim. The problem is not Islam, the problem is extremists in any religion or anyone who can organize others whether through religion or common ground AND if they also have resources like money. There are Christians and Jews who murder in the name of their religion too. Al Quada was just so well organized that it went worldwide. If other groups like say the IRA in Ireland or maybe a tribe in africa or maybe some Jews from Isreal decided to go global and attack another country, then we wouldn't just be talking about Muslims. There is terrorism all over the world, through all religions. Muslims aren't the only ones capable of terrorizing and murdering people.

Erin, nice try. Some of us have in fact read more than a few history books, and the USA was IN FACT founded as a Christian nation and on Christian principles. Miss the "One Nation Under God" part did you? Take you revisionist history lesson elsewhere. That's the problem with liberalism, they change the facts to fit their agenda but sooner or later the truth rears it's ugly head. Oops.

wlockridge, nice try. Some of US have in fact read more than a few history books and the USA was NOT IN FACT founded as a "Christian nation." Did you miss The First Amendment part?

The "One Nation Under God part" is from the Pledge of Allegiance and was added onto the original Pledge.

You're the poster boy of revisionist history pal. Please enlighten us as to where in the Constitution we can find the "fact" that the USA was founded as a "christian nation," and while you're at it tell us where we can find "the one nation under god part" in the constitution.

That's the problem with the right (wrong) wing; "they change the facts to fit their agenda but sooner or later the real truth rears it's ugly head. Oops." See how easy that was?

You're only fooling yourself, probably because you've been fooled by Fox, Limbaugh and the rest of their revisionist anti-American ilk. If you, like they, hate it in America so much...LEAVE. I'll gladly buy you a one-way ticket wherever you want to go. Until then, read the Constitution or STFU.

Your FreeSpeech 1776 said:

If we are no longer allowing Muslims to come here, we will not be worrying about new Muslim Terrorists coming here.

And have you missed all the stuff in the news about those who are born here and convert to Islam? You might not have to worry about new Muslim terrorists coming here but the instances of USC's converting to Islam would still happen. And what about those moderate Muslims who practice the Prophet's tenets of peace who come over here because they are being persecuted by radical members of their own religion? Think Christianity as a whole and the Westboro Baptist folks.

It's time to stop the political correctness.

Profiling is how this mess started. According to some other articles I read. Fikre attended the same mosque as two of the 9-11 hijackers. The mosque has been under close scrutiny since then, with FBI agents looking closely into the doings of the Imam there (the priest.) Jamal Tarhuni and a guy named Elogbi were on humanitarian missions overseas and because they went to the same mosque that those two hijackers went to, that this guy Fikre went to, they weren't allowed to fly home.

To date six people who attened that mosque have remarkably similar stories about traveling overseas, and the FBI from Portland Oregon detained them while overseas, tried to get them to sign Miranda waivers before having an interview with said FBI agents, and when they refused to sign those waivers suddenly found themselves on the no-fly list and unable to return home. One of them was an American of Italian descent, went to Italy to visit distant relatives and was interviewed by FBI agents while there, refused to sign a Miranda waiver, and was placed on the no-fly list and not allowed to come home.

You want to profile? Fine, let's profile. Let's have everyone who went to the same church as Tim McVeigh interviewed by the FBI as to what they knew of his doings. Let's get all of them to sign waivers of their Miranda rights and put them on the no-fly lists when they refuse. Let's do the same to everyone who went to the same church as Eric Rudolph.

Since the activities of the Imam/priest of the mosque is also a question, let's do the same to every parishioner of every Christian/Catholic church whose priest has been accused of child molestation. After all, by this reasoning, if a person went to this church they were automatically aware of what their priest was doing and so is guilty of conspiracy to cover it up, right? So lets investigate all of those parishioners, refuse to believe them when they say they had no idea what was going on, and put them on the no-fly list until they come forward with some evidence that convicts the priest.

Erin,

Sorry but there were no Muslims here at the founding of our Country. Was any of the Pilgrims Muslim? The answer is NO. Were any of the Colonists Muslim? The answer is NO. Was any of the signers of our declaration of Independence Muslim? The answer is NO, they were ALL Christians.

FYI: We have never had a president who did not refer to himself as a Christian. George Washington, John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, ALL refered to themselves as Christians. It was much later after their deaths that Atheists coined the phrase "Deists" to describe people like Jefferson.

Regarding the "Treaty of Tripoli, do you even know what that was about? The treaty was written by a low level US diplomat as part of negotiations with Muslim pirates who were hijacking our merchant ships. The Muslim pirates were in the habit of demanding three times their normal ransom or more from Christians, and they were also known for extreme brutality towards Christians.

The low level diplomat sent to negotiate with the Muslims wrote the "Treaty of Tripoli" to get the Muslims to stop treating our people on our ships they hijack brutally and also for them to stop hijacking our ships in return for reduced pay-offs. To put an end to that, the US Navy was founded in the year 1800 specifically to fight and defeat the Muslims. The Muslims hijacking our ships was one of the reasons our founding fathers did not like Muslims.

Indeed, there were Muslims here, both before and at the founding of this land that is now known as the United States of America.