Yup!

:-}

smokey123244

That's right, not guilty.

Ohh!! Another non-believer!!! -that Zimmie has been thrown to the wolves???

Jeb Bush has spoken -the wolves are knashing their teeth in anticipation; they've been promised a little snack. That'll learn you too and Zimmie. The audacity he had to abuse their sacred law.

They know that the only thing ole Zimmie is NOT GUILTY of -is being White and Mexican. Zimmie is toast.

That's right, not guilty. Zimmerman didn't get arrested that night because he was NOT GUILTY. The police didn't have any reason to hold him. After their investigation the police let him go. Zimmerman was only charged after all the b!tching and crying. It doesn't have to be about race, but say what you want. I am very amused reading these post that try to convict Zimmerman.

I love how you speak up for Zimmerman. However, no one speaks up for the ones that are in jail that actually used the law correctly.

smokey123244:

I am very amused reading these post that try to convict Zimmerman.

Amused? That's all? Just wait until you read these posts after he cops out to Manslaughter and is really convicted. Whew! Now that's gonna be real entertainment. I can't hardly wait! And that scared Zimmerman had to go waive another one of his Constitutional Rights -Speedy trial. Making us wait all the longer. Damn.

No Sir, he don't want to see that courtroom. Trying to stay out on bail for as long as he can. You all just don't want to face it, but George already has -he's going to jail. Just a matter of when. The first 2 lawyers told him that -that's why he fired them in a hysterical hussy fit.

But he's calmed down now, and accepted the inevitable -all he can do is postpone and delay it until all the stalling tactics are exhausted. Then that's it. He'll go to court, cop out to manslaughter and change his name to MAYTAG, in honor of all those boxer shorts and socks the prosoners will take glee making him wash by hand.

Then all you Zimmie fans can start sending your donations to George Maytag -he'll need it to pay protection. (Be sure to include his prisoner number since there's sure to be other George's named MAYTAG in there). Wow -I hope he comes to Maryland. So people can tell me about him everyday, week, month, year and decade -til he gets out.

Terri804:

I love how you speak up for Zimmerman. However, no one speaks up for the ones that are in jail that actually used the law correctly.

Oh no; they are quiet as church mice about that. Me and others tried to get them to talk about that. I saw one conversation about it -then the talk disappeared. And that 1 conversation didn't include any of these rabid Zimmerman SYG proponents.

No words at all for the jailed ones who correctly applied the law and still wound up arrested awaiting trial. None of these SYG people speaking up for them. Must be some of that preferential and special treatment they say Black people get. No matter which side of the gun we're on, under this SYG law, we are guilty. And Zimmie has helped bring all of this into the light -where it can be dealt with for exactly what it is -the most racially unjust law we've seen since Dred Scott's Decision. Good. Thanks Zimmie.

What some of these people don't understand is that one of the writers of the law will be at the trial. He will be asked if this law apply and he will say what he already said, "This Law Does Not Apply for This Case". The self defense is more on if you have not violated another rights to freedom. If you detain someone unlawfully you cannot claim self-defense if they try and get away.

Edward L-5900487:

...one of the writers of the law will be at the trial.He will be asked if this law apply and he will say what he already said, "This Law Does Not Apply for This Case".

Whew!!!!! That's serious!!!! How could the defense argue against him that it does? Gonna be interesting!

smokey123244: You too Smokey -wake up!!!! Yesterday was the day of Discovery; Zimmie got served the States evidence yesterday. Wake up!!! Now what do you say today after talking all that smack to me over the weekend in defense of Ole Zimmie:

That's right, not guilty. Zimmerman didn't get arrested that night because he was NOT GUILTY.

Tough boasts came from you last week -What do you say today!!!!

Wake up Smokey, lay not curled in a hole like that 'Ole rapscallion Big Jim from Texas who won't poke his head out of his prarie dog hole this morning -The Great Tuesday of the day of Zimmerman's Revelation is at hand!!! Wake up Smokey and speak!!!! Are you still confident of your boasts? Or do you repent?

No one killed OJ after he was acquitted of a double murder so threats against Zimmerman's life may be just a lot of talk.

Martin's parents don't want Zimmerman dead because you can't sue a dead man.

What bounty is currently out on zimmerman and by whom ?

The bounty was just for his arrest in case was not charged and he left the country.

The homeowner's association probably can be sued. This case has intimidated the FL justice system so the normal rules do not apply.

The FL governor appointed a special prosecutor to replace a black DA who declined to file charges because the evidence was consistent with self defense.

A judge allowed the case to go forward despite the affidavit charging Zimmerman being grossly insufficient according to legal scholars.

you all have thoughtful comments

QUESTION-- Did the gated community association members understand that their watch volunteers would only keep an EYE ON things. Did the members who attended that meeting by a police representative understand from the representative's presentation that the volunteers were ONLY to REPORT unusual activity by a person the volunteers were watching? (If this is the case, the gated community cannot be sued because Zimmerman, as a volunteer citizen, did more than the members had agreed to in starting their program.)

More than what was agreed upon ???? U are making no sense. That's called taking the law into your own hands if you go beyond the law. Second, if he was suppose to keep an EYE on things and ONLY report then he breached the agreement by being overly zealous and physically confronting people he should only be keeping an eye and reporting on.

rkb,

You have evidence that GZ physically confronted TM or are you just blasting out so much flatulance?

Legal Definition of Stalking - A person who intentionally and repeatedly follows or harasses another person and who makes a credible threat, either expressed or implied, with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm is guilty of the crime of stalking. Following is not a crime. Following and making a credible threat is

Hooops:

You have evidence that GZ physically confronted TM or are you just blasting out so much flatulance?

Of course there is -and it's old news; you just do not want to accept it. The girl on the phone establishes that with Trayvon's own account describing "he's still coming, he's walking fast, here he is" and then the girl actually hearing Zimmerman's voice initiating the back and forth argument that any reasonable person would have no doubt resulted in Zimmerman assaulting the kid mid-sentence before the phone went dead. That and all the other circumstantial evidence leads to that conclusion -beyond a reasonable person's doubt.

You all seem to think (and hope) that any doubt at all is reasonable, and will result in an aquittal. Hell no. The prosecution does not have to remove all doubt, and have an eye witness to Zimmerman actually starting the physical confrontation in order for them to convict him of it -if most of the evidence, circumstantial or whatever, leads a reasonable person to that conclusion -then Zimmies toast.

Why do you waste time with that stalking definition stuff? The man is not facing a stalking charge -he's charged with second degree murder. And all you babble about is this silly stalking definition, as though somebody's charged Zimmie with it. Zimmie is charged with murder2. Talk about that.

If you want to help, find him a witness saying that girl was not on the phone with Trayvon -that'll help.

Or find Zimmie a witness saying the screaming on the tape was him when he shot the kid.

Or find him a witness saying they were on the sidewalk when the shot rang out.

Or one saying they saw Zimmie's head getting banged into the pavement

Or a witness who saw Zimmie on the way back to his truck

Or one that saw Trayvon reaching for Zimmies gun

Or one that saw Trayvon hiding from Zimmie then sneaking up behind him and attacking him.

That's what Zimmie needs -not all your silly babbling about some stuff he isn't even charged with -like your dumb talking point about the definition of stalking don't fit what Zimmie did.

You Zimmie fans are really not doing your homework. You talk about nothing that actually helps Zimmie.

Poor Zimmie. He's just going to have to go to jail. That's all. Babble all day about nothing all you want.

Tim :

The homeowner's association probably can be sued.

I agree. I do not see how they would be able to get around their responsibility of seeing that their own members are in compliance to the association's rules. They have an armed, non-compliant vigilante in their ranks, and subjected the community to him, and subjected Trayvon to him -yeah it was their responsibility to see that Zimmerman and all members were compliant. They failed to do so, and they are subject to getting sued. As well they should.

MrWhatever

So your source of info is an unobjective witness telling a tale of what??? Have you heard of the generation of a timeline corroborating this account? No! Have you ever heard of reasonable doubt? A preponderance of the evidence simply means that one side has more evidence in its favor than the other, even by the smallest degree. From what I have read (probably the same source of info as you have) this argument ain't got it. the way, I was rebutting the notion that GZ was stalking anyone. As an aside, I want justice, just not mob justice which is what is being served to date.

That was part of the training that Zimmerman had for the volunteer watch group. He read the requirements and agreed to them. The gun was what made Zimmerman feel more like a Cop. it gave him identity.

The only people that can be sued is the Community. If they do not have adequate insurance then the members in the community will have to come out of their pockets. There fore they cannot let Zimmerman be found Guilty. They have a vested interest in him being found not Guilty. They will do whatever to help him then drop him after there case is over or the suit is over. They will say anything to help him right now...

Herein lies the problem for the Community leaders. They did in-fact send a letter out to the Community that Zimmerman was the go to person for any issues relating to Community watch. Assigning to Zimmerman the title of Captain. Giving him the responsibility for security for the Community at large.

Hooops:

Stop the shenanigans! Zimmerman has better treatment than the average accused murderer. Nobody's doing a single thing to him. He is getting the royal treatment as far as accused murderers go -yet you act as though the man is being deprived of his rights, being feed bread and water, and is hanging from his wrists in a dungeon. Knock it off.

As an aside, I want justice, just not mob justice which is what is being served to date.

Well you must be talking about the mob justice Trayvon got -he got no trial, hasn't even been charged with a single crime, yet not only is he murdered, but the ravenous right wing media and the mobs on these posts, have the poor kid already convicted of every single thing the accused murderer has accused him of.

Hooops:

So your source of info is an unobjective witness telling a tale of what?

Now how is the witness unobjective? Please tell.

telling a tale of what?

That George never cut off the pursuit (like he claimed) -he kept coming until making contact with Trayvon, which fits all the facts -and blows George's lies out of the water. That's the witnesses account the jury will hear from her.

Have you heard of the generation of a timeline corroborating this account?

Of course I have -all that will be synchronized for the jury.

Out of curiosity -do you hope it won't?

Mrwhatever,

You really think the phone witness is not biased? That's really naive. And you seem to indicate you have inside knowledge regarding what really happened. You don't what happened and neither do I. However, I can come up with a possible scenario that show GZ not guilty. Your objective girl caller tells TM not to take any sh!t from the guy following him and says "Go kick his a$$". She then changes her story on what was said. And no, I did not say GZ was unfairly treated; except for being tried in the press and having the NBBP putting out a bounty. Just to be clear. I want justice for everyone; GZ and TM.

Hooops:

You really think the phone witness is not biased?

A witnesses knowing a person is not how you determine the witness's credibilityty in court; more importantly I think she is telling the truth because everything she said fits the known facts of this case like a puzzle, and it fits the prosecution's narrative of events and it explains how the two came together, in a way consistent with everything that happened before, and everything that happened after. She's credible; liking Trayvon is not enough to discredit her.

Her speculation about the push, the phone falling -may not be allowed; but what she heard -Trayvon's spontaneous statement describing what was happening between he and George -is allowable ear evidence; and the excited utterances she heard (the back and forth argument) is also allowable evidence against Zimmerman. Her speculation may not -either way she's a credible witness.

She may be biased in liking Trayvon and not knowing George -but that's no proof she is lying about what she heard. Does her story match the facts -that's what's going to count. Wives are allowed to testify -why not this girl?

Your objective girl caller tells TM not to take any sh!t from the guy following him and says "Go kick his a$$". She then changes her story on what was said.

Well there's nobody testifying to your scenario is there? But the girl is testifying to her account.

I want justice for everyone; GZ and TM.

Well it's hard to want justice for eveyone if you are one-sided -attacking just one side's witnesses.

Let me ask again -

Have you heard of the generation of a timeline corroborating this account?

Of course I have -all that will be synchronized for the jury.

Out of curiosity -do you hope it won't? Your answer will shed light on your own biasness if you have it.

Hi Mrperryrice! Hope you spoiled your wife yesterday! I had a great day, started cloudy here, but sun made a save later in the day!
A friend is looking for you (lol) on " changing SYG law article", I'm sorry I can't paste the link :-( my recharge cord for my laptop is being very bad, so I'm using my iPad, and have NO idea how to paste! I copy without meaning to, and when I want to copy I can't!! Very frustrating! It should be in your conversation tracker though....our other mutual buddy, answers Al, needles me, but has you on "ignore" (so he says) that's on the "$200,000 bond" article!
Agree with everything you stated above!

Jo-An:

I surely did, all things considered. I had to stay off the computer longer yesterday. I'm even sneaking on it now under the guise of having a smoke. LOL!!!

I hope you got nice and spoiled.

A friend, or not a friend is looking for me over there?

Jo-An:

Oh, now I see. Not really a friend. LOL

....our other mutual buddy, answers Al, needles me, but has you on "ignore" (so he says) that's on the "$200,000 bond" article!
Agree with everything you stated above!

Seems a lot of that is going around -running from the males and leaping from under the bridge on the females in this and other vines. Shows great character....NOT! I'll leap over there somethime tonight.

Jo, chest check out all of the attacks on the girl over stuff that don't amount to a hill of beans. They will be angry as hell when she takes the stand and is allowed to tell the jury what Trayvon told her and what she heard Zimmerman and Trayvon say to each other. I can't wait. Zimmie's side will stall and stall -they are in no rush to face the music.

Yes, DeeDee just rubs them wrong! I see Orlando Sentinel has an 8 page list of evidence they just released! Audio expert from NJ,, a pair of FBI audio witnesses, as well as the 2 we know of! They must concur! Video from 7/11 & the clubhouse....hmmmm.....most of the other stuff just seems obvious, forensics, autopsy, witnesses, phone records. They didn't release this till end if day, so maybe we will know more tomorrow...

Jo-An!!!!!

What? What? It's out already? Let me go check it out now.

They must concur!!!!! Right -I'm no audio expert but it does not take a genius to understand that that particular kind of science does not lend itself to multiple interpretations. There will not be a bunch of professors arguing theory over this audio evidence -it is what it is, demonstrable science, solid as mathematics!!! These will prove those other 2 knew what they were talking about.

Video from the clubhouse!!!! Hey, would that have Zimmie in it's sights at the moment he received the admonishment not to follow Trayvon and he claimed he had stopped???? Oh God; will it show the point where Zimmie said OK yet continued to walk toward Trayvon instead of turning around as he had claimed? Will it show Zimmie walking out of sight into the cut after he'd already said OK? Whew!!!! I can't wait.

Hey, How many more witnesses are there? Do you have a link to post of the sentinel article's list?

That's right Zimmie fans -O'mara has the bad news in his hands right now.

Sorry, I can't copy & paste on this dang iPad! Look up Orlando sentinel latest Zimmerman news on google, that's how I found it!

Jo-An!!!!

Whoaa!!! You up already?

Look up Orlando sentinel latest Zimmerman news on google

I got it, thanks. I'll be back talking smack after this, er, pleasurable reading. LOL ;-) They got him Jo, they got to have him. Me and you know -he's coping out to Manslaughter before he dares risk taking that witness stand. He'll listen to O'Mara where he did not listen to the first 2 lawyers. We'll see.

LOL.....I always get up EARLY! Lost power around 7 this morning....it came back on this afternoon, and then we had NO cable (as well as Internet).....
I have no idea what has happened in the real world today!

I see a lawsuit against Zimmerman less for the money and more as a warning to Americans not to engage overzealously as watch volunteers.

Zimmerman raised $200K just with his amateur website so he could raise considerably more, especially if it looks like he is unfairly convicted.

It not just the about the money when people sue.

If Zimmerman is acquitted, it gives the Martin family another chance at Zimmerman with much better odds because their burden of proof is much lower than in a criminal trial.

A lawsuit is also more free publicity to push an agenda, which is what a lot of Martin backers seem to want.

Zimmerman raised $200K just with his amateur website so he could raise considerably more, especially if it looks like he is unfairly convicted.

It not just the about the money when people sue.

If Zimmerman is acquitted, it gives the Martin family another chance at Zimmerman with much better odds because their burden of proof is much lower than in a criminal trial.

A lawsuit is also more free publicity to push an agenda, which is what a lot of Martin backers seem to want.

They lost their son. What would you do if you lost lost your son or daughter? People file complaints for hot coffee and you make a mockery of a parent suing for the lost of their son. That lets one no that, "You Have No Love For Your Fellow Man". I could see if it was clear cut, but we have a man suing the victims family for a drunk driving conviction. Just because it is a Black person they are money hungry people that don't deserve to get what you get on a regular basis. That is So In Human.!!!!!!!

If the defense shows that Zimmy went into diabetic shock and that's what caused him to run around the neighborhood with a gun after a teenage boy, then yes, that would be the rarest of circumstances, but it would make Zimmerman innocent. And if an alien hijacked his brain, that would make Zimmy innocent too...any other "horror stories" ?

YEA !!!! ; THINK POSITIVELY , WHEN YOU FIND YOUR 16 YEAR OLD IN A COOLER ; and all the murderer can say is i followed him from the store cause his skittles looked lethal , and his can of tea looked like a rocket launcher !!!!!!!!

Funny that we say now that a person is innocent till proven guilty. Lets apply that to Trayvon Martin. he was investigated found Guilty then condemned to die. We all want a fair trial. But, when we apply the law we need to do that across the board. Trayvon did not even get a chance to Testify in is own Murder Trial. We have had him called a Thug, a hooded thug. He has been called a felon he attach a gun totting Zimmerman and many other things. He like many teens deserved to become adults, so we can see what they become.

Our Nation is so bent on if we see a Black Male and the trend is that they were the criminals in a community then all Black Males are suspect. When we can look at our selves and see that we all have a right to; TRUE EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW, We will always show or Harbor a discontentment for others. The question is Where do we start to get past that? Well, we can start where it all began here. When, Where and how did the understanding of Superiority begin here. So, we can work through the fear of others. I truly wish that one day we can live in a world where, "I WILL NO BE JUDGED BY THE COLOR OF MY SKIN BUT, BY THE CONTENT OF MY CHARACTER".

who cares about justice for a young dead victim? not the zimmerman racists

Racist mean that we have power over you. Do my race own over 100 Major banks? No! Does my race own majority of the Major Companies? No! Does the Black Race run most of the Drug trade in the US? No! How many Black people own large boats? Or how many Colleges do Black America own. No where near that of White America. I mean that are not celebrities in way or form. All of this is run by owned by White America. So, when comes to Racist that is about those that can have power over a not race. Black America does not have that kind of power over white America.

So, look up the definition of Racist. Now I will say that when a white student tried to get into a Predominately Black College that could be seen as reverse discrimination. "That does not rise to a issue of Racism". They were allowed in and there was not issues following of an attack on them unlike a Black trying to get into a Predominately White College were the Blacks where rocked or worst.

I was alive when Kennedy was killed Malcolm-X and Martin Luther King was killed. I saw the impact that these evens had on most of us and the world. Justice should be Color Blind but, because of people that have hate or lack of sensitivity for another GROUP. For what ever their reason is. You don't know you next door neighbor till you meet them. Therefore you don't know a black person till you meet them. Meeting one does not count for all. you would not count meeting one person as meeting all.

I don't see that Dee-Dee will be very credible to a jury for many reasons. She didn't contact police even after she heard her boyfriend Martin had been killed. Why not?

She talked to the Martin's lawyer first, so could have been coached by him.

She refused to talk to police when they asked so they had to subpoena her.

There is no way to corroborate her story, unlike Zimmerman's phone call to the police, which was recorded.

The very short comments that Dee-Dee has made publicly are contradictory and some work in Zimmerman's favor.

Dee-Dee said "He said he lost the man. I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast." That corroborates Zimmerman's claim to the police dispatcher that he lost sight of Martin.

She said Martin then started to run. Martin should have easily made it to his nearby home well before Zimmerman finished talking to the police. Zimmerman's call to the police times exactly when he starts running and when he stops by the change in his breathing.

You have the sequence wrong. Dee-Dee said that Martin spoke first, asking Zimmerman, "Are you following me?" so Martin confronted Zimmerman.

Read more: #ixzz1uRXMTyxG

'the prosecution is protecting their strategy while trying to draw out information from the defense'

It doesn't make sense for the prosecution to hide their strongest evidence because it will all be made public soon enough, and their likely strategy will be apparent when their evidence is known.

It actually could be an advantage for the prosecution to put their strongest evidence in the affidavit because if it was overwhelming evidence of guilt, it might convince Zimmerman to seek a plea bargain and avoid the expense and long wait for a trial.

whether YOU FEEL COACHED OR NOT THE phone RECORDS TELL MUCH. aLSO WITH THE PROPer subpena they can get a log of the conversation. this information will not be all public. Even Zimmerman s own Lawyer wants to keep certain information from public view. He wants Zimmerman s statements redacted.

Tim Berton:

I don't see that Dee-Dee will be very credible to a jury for many reasons.

She won't have nearly the credibility problems 'Ole Georgie's already got. She'll have answers for all that stuff you ask.

George just better have his answers to all those lies he told.

First he shot the kid because his head was being banged into the sidewalk, every witness said the fight was nowhere near a sidewalk -George told another lie:

I shot him because he was going for my gun.

I mean you talk about the girl's credibility and ignore George's word not being worthy of spit? Convenient of you, but George don't have that convenience in that courtroom.

He tells the dispatcher accurately that Trayvon is a "teen, late teens" , then lies under oath on a witness stand to the parents and says "I did not know how old he was, I thought he was a little bit younger than I am (28)." Well he didn't say that to the dispatcher. George is a self serving liar, the jury will not gloss over all his problems like you Zimmie fans on here do. They are not gonna like George's lies, and forgive him of them as though they mean nothing. They jury even gets instructions about people caught in lies.

You all might gloss over this credibility problem George has but that jury is going to be treated to a whole lot of reasons not to believe George. We'll see.

And that smear campaign against the girl -we'll see how she's treated in the courtroom. Certainly a whole lot better than George will -why, he's so discredited he won't even take the stand. That might be why he took the stand at the bail hearing -because he's too damaged to dare the stand at trial.

He wants Zimmerman s statements redacted.

Hell no!!! Zimmie's statements should not be hidden from the public. The Judge is not going for that one, there's no reason to. I can see witness names and addresses and such, but not their statements either.

This is America!!!! We've got a right to know.

Here's the link.

Really? A bunch of "what if's" from a rwnj rag....

That's hardly evidence, it's just conjecture derived to further discredit Trayvon and his family.

Let's let a jury decide Dee Dee's credibility!

Look at what Dee- Dee said, which was very little.

If you don't like the American Thinker article, read Dee-Dee's comments on ABC.

How do you hear a push over the phone and know who did the pushing?

How do you know the phone was disconnected due to it falling and was not intentionally hung up?

ABC seems deliberately vague about the length of the call. They say phone records indicate Dee Dee called Trayvon at 7:12 pm, 5 minutes before police arrived and stayed on the line "until moments before he was shot." Just tell us what time the phone record says the call ended instead of being so vague.

Look at what Dee- Dee said, which was very little.

I have read, and I have listened to Dee Dee's account. I think she is creditable, so let's see what a jury thinks.

ABC seems deliberately vague about the length of the call.

According to cell phone records, Dee Dee and Trayvon were on the phone for most of the time he was walking back from 7/11. There is a discrepancy in actual times, because the 911 calls and phone records aren't in sync. I'm sure they will find a way to sync the times, making it less "vague". In the meantime, that's what they have!

http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf

@Tim Berton....

I have to agree with you regarding Dee Dee. Not only does she say very little, but some of what she said contradicts other estabilshed evidence. One thing she says is that TM says he is being followed and she says to him to run. According to her, TM says he is not going to run, just walk fast. Well their call is after 7:12 and somewhere around 7:11:39 (approx) on GZ call he (TM) already had run. So that just doesn't make sense. At another point she says GZ had TM "cornered". Where? They were in a common area 30 yards wide by 120 yards long with no obstructions. So how does TM get "cornered?"

According to the phone timelines (where she connected / disconnected with TM) the most that she could have listened to was roughly 20 seconds worth of interplay from the time she says TM she heard TM ask "why you following me?". Seems like she gathered an awful lot of info in only 20 seconds and she did not make a statement for several weeks. Either a great memory or she took notes hoping somebody would eventually contact her (because she sure as hell did not establish contact with anybody after after the so called "close relationship" with TM ended)

I don't think we will every see Dee Dee in a court room testifying.

If she did not make a statement for several weeks, most likely it is because she is a girl under the protection & guidance of her parents (as are most minors living at home).

@yankhadenuf...

Apparenty she did not even mention it to them. Nor did she attemot to contact either of TMs' parents, or TMs' cousin that she knew well, or anyone at school, or the Police, or the media, or any of her friends......nobody.

It does not sound like she took any of the events she "heard" that night for 20 seconds, as important, noteworthy, serious, concerning, careing, thoughtful, warranting of attention (enough action verbs) for her to TAKE ACTION!

She just went about her normal life as though nothing occurred. Is it possible that this incident made no news in Miami Gardens where she lives? And after finally hearing that TM was shot and is dead, she still said absolutely nothing to anyone. Tracy Martin tracked her down via Mr. Crump, after examining TMs' phone records. Otherwise, we would never have even heard about her.

Sorry, absolutly zero credibility there.

ric-635471 Prosecution has cell phone records, so they DO indeed exist, that is a fact.

Fort Pierce Violent Crime Lawyer quote: "In criminal court In Florida, child hearsay is admissible under certain conditions."

Her parents may have been following advice of Florida legal consultation in order to protect their daughter. I know I would if she were mine.

@Yankhadenuf...

Of course the phone records exist - I didn't say there were no phone records or that DeeDee wasn't on several calls with TM that day. What I'm saying is that the evidence of the calls was uncovered by TMs' Dad, Tracy, and if he hadn't brought them to Crumps attention we might still not have heard from DeeDee. And at the time Crump "uncovered" this startling new evidence, on March 18 (TM died 2/26) that's 21 days later, the first thing he did was set up a "news conference". Finds the "evidence" 3/18, talks to DeeDee via phone by the way, (She is in Miami Gardens - Crump is in Stanford) on 3/19, and Crump is at a news conference on 3/20 producing "new evidence". No sufficient time to subpoena phone records, no sufficient time to analyze he statement against the various actual 911 calls, no sufficient time to even insure that her statements didn't contridict other existing evidence. Just toss it out and let the media frenzy continue. Keep the fires burning so to speak.

He releases an "audio affidavit of what she "heard" that night. Holds absolutely no legal weight, can be redacted at will, carries the claim that things she said "might" be spontanious utterances (and therefore corrected as they go along). What credibility does that hold? None in my opinion.

He proceeds to supply that audio to the DA Office ( does he now work for them - collecting evidence?) and at that time she (DeeDee) still refuses to give a "sworn statement under oath." The audio affidavit is complete BS since she was not under oath and she could redact that audio statement at any time.

I'LL wait for her "sworn statement" and O'Maras' sworn deposition of her version before I listen to (or read) another post regarding DeeDee. And please don't hold your breath for that - She will not be called to testify because she will get ripped on the stand and the Prosecutor knows that. They will attempt to somehow connect, as supporting documentation, the fact that she was actually on the phone with TM (which is reality)The only thing that is not reality is her interpretation of the events.

Someone sounds worried for Zimmerman's defense.

@YAHTC......

That sounds like "worry"? If that is all they have on that issue and combining that with the Investigators sastements at the bond hearing it is beginning to look like the Prosecution doesn't have a case, let alone a strong case. Conjecture, lack of definitive evidence regarding "assault", conflicting witness statements, unknown locations for GZ & TM for 2 minutes, single shot fired and the gun jams, statement of "profiled" that can not be substaniated, potential for immunity at next hearing, conflicting requests from dispatch to GZ on that call, DeeDees' conflicting audio affidavit, actual injuries to GZ sustained in altercation, and that damned problematic Fl statute SYG.

I am not a GZ supporter. The death of anyone is a tragic event but with what I have seen so far, this guy walks for sure.

ric,

apparenty she did not even mention it to them. Nor did she attemot to contact either of TMs' parents, or TMs' cousin that she knew well, or anyone at school, or the Police, or the media, or any of her friends......nobody.

You are assuming "we all" know everything, WE don't! All the talk of when Dee Dee told anyone anything is pure conjecture!

Jo-An....

I'LL wait for her "sworn statement" and O'Maras' sworn deposition of her version before I listen to (or read) another post regarding DeeDee

We don't know what she has to say or will say "under oath". That's my answer and it stands!

ric,

That's my answer and it stands!

Spoken like a TRUE Zimmie FAN!

And ric, how do you know the gun "jammed"?

@YAHTC....

It is a semi-automatic. When a round fires the slide mechanism ejects the spent carterage and rechambers a fresh round from the magazine. When the weapon was seized by police the report indicated "one spent carterage at the scene, a full magazine of rounds and no chambered round". Only way for that to happen is the slide mechaniam was impeded. The Kel Tec PF9 is a relatively small weapon. Overall length is less than 6 inches and overall height less than 5 inches. If both GZ and TM were gripping the weapon at the same time, (GZ hand/hands around grip - TM one or both hands wrapped around muzzle) the silde which is pretty much the entire top of the weapon could have been impeded to the point of not fully retracting enough to "grab" a fresh round from the magazine.

Don't yet have the forensics on the weapon but this is certainly a possibility.

@Jo-An...

If you took the time to read through my entire post you would see that I clearly stated on the last line that I a not a GZ supporter.

I am not a GZ supporter. The death of anyone is a tragic event but with what I have seen so far, this guy walks for sure.

At least I don't use the same time honored statement that accompanies 50% of your post - "we don't know where GZ was when he made the call"

Sounds like you are the only person in America that doesn't know. Everyone else is more than certain on that point.

So, as you are always spouting.......................

Spoken like a TRUE Zimmie FAN!

ric,

Really?

Sounds like you are the only person in America that doesn't know. Everyone else is more than certain on that point.

Then, please, fill me in! Where WAS GZ when he called the police?

Give me links to your proof.

@Jo-An...

You don't need links reposted. This is all established information from the GZ call. GZ was on Retreat View Circle. The distance from the clubhouse (at the entrance) to where the street turns is approx. 70 feet. GZ says he sees TM at the clubhouse. And then he says "he's coming to check me out" So we know GZ is NOT at the clubhouse but a little further dowm Retreat View but can clearly see both the clubhouse and the mailboxes as he states. When giving directions to dispatch he says "come in the enterance and make a left and go past the mailboxes and you will see my truck". That puts the truck approx a minimum of 10 - 20 feet in to Retreat View Cr. NOw we have only 50 - 60 feet left before the street turns and the police would not have been able to "see my truck". When GZ says "yep he's coming to check me out" about 5 - 6 seconds pass. At a normal walk pace an average person will cover approx 15 - 18 feet in that amount of time. That leaves only a window of 32 - 42 feet of street left and if you take out the length of GZ vehicle itself (8 - 10 ft?) that puts GZ vehicle within a 24 -32 foot maximum distance of the cut through path but definately on Retreat View CR. If you can not figure out this approximate location and insist that a distance of 20 - 30 feet makes a significant impact on the course of events and that "we don't know where GZ was when he made the call" then I am banging out this message to air.

Really Jo-An where else could GZ have possibly been when he place that call? He had to have been on Retreat View CR.

You can stand by your contention that "we don't know where..." but any logical person with any common sense can put his vehicle at the approx. location GZ says it was. Granted, the official report is yet to be seen that will narrow the location and pinpoint it, but it is very clear that we do know where GZ was when he made that call.

If you can deduce another location I would gladly be open to your premise.

Sorry ric, it's just not that clear to me. GZ says "go past the mailboxes, that's my truck", the mailboxes are "at the clubhouse", so to me that means he is parked near the clubhouse, just past the mailboxes. Yes, he said go left, because he was watching Trayvon heading "to the back entrance", because he was staying near the back entrance. There are TWO blocks of homes between the clubhouse and the block of houses Trayvon was found behind.....so.....I still don't know where GZ's vehicle ended up "parked".

If it was just past mailboxes, GZ walked all the way down, past two blocks of homes, and went behind houses. If it was parked in front of the block he ended up behind, he DROVE down there AFTER he told police where to meet him. Either way, he was NOT in front of the home he killed Trayvon behind, while speaking to police!

Jo-An ....

At least you agree GZ was somewhere on Retreat View Cr. so we are making progress. I can see that your position is that we don't know where GZ was parked on Retreat View CR verses we don't know where in FL, OK. I can accept that. We don't know the specific location. At the mailboxes, perhaps as you say, or further down the street as I say. No one has said GZ was parked in front of the home where the incident took place. That would have put his SUV beyond the turn of Retreat View CR and out of sight of Police entering Retreat View CR at the time of call. I see you went on to say that the vehicle may have moved, and I will address that. But, we still don't have the official data to determine precise location.

GZ could have walked as you lay out in your premise. That scenario could be consistant with what we know so far and is quite possible. But, I really do not believe he drove after he told police where to meet him. If he drove then you have a real time conflict. During his call after TM ran, he is clearly not in his car for the remainder of that call. The time between the end of his call and the meeting with TM was under two minutes maximum. So there would not have been time for him to return to the car and drive it to a new location and then walk or even run to the location behind the townhouses. If he was, by your account, parked even nearer to the mailboxes than I believe, the distance would be even greater. That would make the round trip distance well over 400 feet (and by your premise possibly over 500 feet) which would be pretty difficult to do in under 2 minutes.

I know you could say GZ might already have been heading back with the intent to move the car as he was still talking to dispatch, but that plays into his statement that he was attacked as he headed back. That would also put him completely out of sight from TMs' prospective and should have given TM the impression GZ was leaving the area and TM could have returned to his home. That premise just leads to more unknows and additional conflicts with what we already know. So, although it might almost be possible, I can not fully accept that premise due to the conflicts it raises.

No one has said GZ was parked in front of the home where the incident took place.

Actually, plenty of people have contended just that!

But, we still don't have the official data to determine precise location.

I'm pretty sure "that" is precisely what I said.

I know you could say GZ might already have been heading back with the intent to move the car as he was still talking to dispatch, but that plays into his statement that he was attacked as he headed back.

Not, if Trayvon was MURDERED behind the houses. Maybe you should listen to the police tape again. You can hear GZ get out of vehicle, and you hear when the dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that"...at that point we should assume GZ returned to his vehicle....correct? If he did, it would take 11 seconds to get back in his vehicle, I just listened to tape again, and he walked for approximately 11 seconds before dispatcher told him to stop.

Listening again, GZ makes it clear that Trayvon is "near the clubhouse" when he is talking to the police. So, while you believe GZ was past clubhouse, closer to MURDER site, when he's talking to police, I believe GZ is closer to front gate into complex, just sitting in his vehicle watching Trayvon walk about. Dee Dee also reported that Trayvon went "under" a roof at some point, to get out of the rain. I think that was probably at the clubhouse. They talked for 18 mins or so, hung up and then talked again when the confrontation happened.

My contention is, GZ intended to keep his eye on Trayvon, until police arrived. Whether that meant following by vehicle, or getting out of vehicle, GZ had no intention of letting this one "get away".

By the way, sarcastic comments need not apply! You are starting to sound like the infamous "trust_verify"...

At least you agree GZ was somewhere on Retreat View Cr. so we are making progress. I can see that your position is that we don't know where GZ was parked on Retreat View CR verses we don't know where in FL,

Jo-An:

Fine job Jo. They'll have all this time stuff in proper sequence and lined up by the time of trial. I'm sure they already do.

yankhadenuf:

Shame on NBC ! The UNeditted tapes are far more damning against George Zimmerman.

Excellent observation!!!! So why are the Zimmie fanatics bleating and bleating against NBC "doctoring" the tapes? Are they not intelligent enough to see the editing actually harms George less?

Fine job!!!

Have you heard a recording of Martin's voice?

Martin could have had a lower voice than Zimmerman.

It is not uncommon for some teens to have lower voices than some much older adults.

The eyewitness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman up close said it was Zimmerman screaming.

nobody wants to hear the truth!!!!!!stand your ground and this case will get thrown out at discovery..someone who is in law enforcement in central florida says so will remain nameless

stand your ground and this case will get thrown out at discovery..someone who is in law enforcement in central florida says so will remain nameless

What does that even mean? If GZ wants to use the SYG defense, he needs to go before a judge and convince the judge he "feared for his life"....this would be done BEFORE "discovery".

I look forward to hearing how this all plays out in Court. From the way this sounds there will be some pretty angry Zimmerman supporters if he is found guilty.

olga-5704164

liberal bull@!$%#.........bla bla bla bla bla bla.....the man is innocent

We shall see!

LOL...I bet O'Mara looked worried! Clearly ole Zimmie has been less than truthful with him! There was a REASON the first two lawyers quit on him!

Amen Joe-An

Jo-An the other two lawyers looked relieved and happy to be rid of Zimmerman.

I know, they were trying to be "professional",

yet say.....PLEASE......get us out of this! LOL...

Did they say how soon? Here it is Friday afternoon.....I'm dying to read the forensics report!

No they didn't say for sure, but said it could be as early as next week. I can't wait either.

Jo-An: Our local news is doing a special tonight about the case and the community. They say it will be from a night time perspective of what happened.

Let me know if there are any revelations! Sounds good!

Ok I will, I'll post it tonight or early morning if I get sleepy.

Is it just me or have you 2 actually read your posts? Sounds like you guys are waiting for a "door buster" sale at Target. Get a life!!!

Very funny ric, you telling someone to get a life. You are here as much as anyone else, so where is your life?

Tell the truth ric, you are as interested as anyone else, or you wouldn't be posting, don't worry I won't hold it against you. :)

Why would you be surprised that 100s' of pages of documentation will be released? I suspect the number is in the 1000s'. We are talking about 10+ weeks of docs that have been collected. Reports of LE, witnesses, GZ, 911, Martin family. And that is just the night of 2/26. Think about how much has occurred since then. The Prosecutor has to disclose everthing they have collected in 10+weeks of investigation plus all supporting documentation that supports it. This is no earth shattering event. It is completely normal.

The issues we will now be prevy to will include forensics, medical examiners data, coroners data, enhancements to witness statements, crime scene statictics, etc. The Defense expects the deluge of info. It doesn't freighten them at all. The more information the greater probability of contradicting info.

I think you are mis-reading or reading more into this than it really amounts to. This is fairly normal in a Felony charge.

ric, FYI, my son is a lawyer and my dad is a retired Chief of Police, I'm not surprised at anything in this case, just curious. You amaze me though how you make so many assumptions as to what I'm reading into.

@Rhama..

Let's just say I am an interested observer. I haven't swayed my opinion one way or the other as yet. I am not pro GZ nor am I pro TM. I am just examining facts as they develop and attempting to fit them together as they apply to this case. Some facts supporting TM fit, some facts supporting GZ also fit. A lot on both sides just do not and when they don't I comment. (no need to take up bandwith just to say "ya I agree") Some of the speculation posted here makes sense and some of it just doesn't. If some one posts something that is based on "emotion" rather than logical fact, I have to throw my opinion at it. That is not to say that my opinion outweighs the other person, but I at least try to base my opinion on established fact. Some of the posts here as I read and follow them, seem to start off rational enough. But after a day or 2, they begin to become emotional vs factual and then those folks start creating their own version of the truth. If you have been on here for a while you should have also noticed that.

We all don't yet know all the facts. The main point of contention I have is when something based on fact is presented an opposing view jumps in from an emotional syandpoint and will argue that emotional view for hours. And as that emotional view is debated that person will "add" their own "spin" to make their point. Many times just twisting the facts, contridicting their own previous post and then when that is brought up to them they get defensive and feel attacked. Kind of like a pitbull chewing on its' own leg. Hurts like hell, but instintively, he is not going to let go. Yes, sometimes I'll throw something out toward a particular poster that has contridivted themselves from previous posts. That is deliberate to see where they really stand. Have they forulated their own opinion or have they just latched onto some words from someone elses post. And then I want them to defend their position. That is what debate is all about.

So to answer your question - yes I am very interested in this case. It is very unique in that we have racial aspects, political aspects, we have moral aspects, we have hidden agendas, and most important, and what many posters seem to ignore, we have the death of a young man at the hands of another young man. That is not my position, as some continue to spout, that GZ murdered TM. My position is that a tragig event took place and we need to find out the hows' and the whys' of how this came about. I have a completely open mind (comes with many years of life experience), and I do not prejudge. I was a combat Viet Nam vet way back when so I can tell you from experience that I both know how it feels to be in fear for your life and how it feels to take a life, Neither is pleasant.

Maybe the above will give you a clearer understanding of "where I am coming from"

Peace

@Rhama...

I believe many days ago you mentioned the facts about your son and dad. I recall that. I don't mean to assume you jump to conclusions. Perhaps, it might just be the way you phrase you post. Actually, your posts come across as well thought out and I recall from a day or 2 ago, you laid out a premise regarding reasonable doubt and we bantered for a short time. Again, not to say I'm right, you're wrong or vise versa. Just an exchange of opinions. Going through life with a closed mind is like attempting to walk through a closed door. You are not going to get anywhere and you just become more and more frustrated.

So I think we are "friends" or at least on good terms. Usually if I reply to a post with anything more than a couple of quick sentences it is because I notice logic and intellegence and it warrents a reply even if I disagree.

Of course, with "some other female" posters, who shall remain unnamed, I just like to hear them ramble. It amuses me. Sorry, at my age I need some humor in my day.

ric Thank you for sharing, sometimes I disagree with you as you do with me, but it's not personal. I'm very curious about this case myself. I hope I'm not stepping out of line when I say, Thank You for your service to our country, I understand when you talked about taking a life and being afraid for your own life in the military. I had two brother in laws and a husband in the military as well. Thank God they all made it home. As I said my Dad is a retired Police Chief and he served in the military as well. As a child when my dad was on foot patrol I never knew when we got a phone call if he was alright or not, so I understand what you are saying. Trayvon's death touched me because I have a grandchild around his age who has a form of autism where he cannot perceive danger in a person's face and would never have been able to handle a person questioning him as Zimmerman did that night, he simply would not have known what to say to him. He might have even laughed at him as he does when he is nervous, afraid or if he does not know what to do. Some things touch us in different ways for different reasons. Be Blessed ric.

ric you were right about the thousands of documents, I just heard it on my local station. I thought I heard it on the news at 6:00, but I didn't want to say 1000's because I might have been wrong.

ric-635471,

Is it just me or have you 2 actually read your posts? Sounds like you guys are waiting for a "door buster" sale at Target. Get a life!!!

So, it bother's you that Rhama tells me something, and I reply?

You see Rhama and I are both curious to find out what the prosecution has as evidence....it seems you are too?

Rhama and I each have sons that are lawyers, and have commented that we "think alike". We actually are "friends" on here, so we have "conversations with each other", that's how it works. You can just skip over our comments, or hit the "ignore author" button, if you find our conversations so distressful.

yes I am very interested in this case. It is very unique in that we have racial aspects, political aspects, we have moral aspects, we have hidden agendas, and most important, and what many posters seem to ignore, we have the death of a young man at the hands of another young man. That is not my position, as some continue to spout, that GZ murdered TM. My position is that a tragig event took place and we need to find out the hows' and the whys' of how this came about. I have a completely open mind (comes with many years of life experience), and I do not prejudge

Why are your opinions and comments okay, while mine are not?

You argued endlessly about how the SYG law worked,

ric-635471

He can not invoke SYG as a defense unless he is on trial and wants to use it as a defense.

In the SYG statute there is a provision for an immunity hearing. That will happen shortly at the arraignment. What you are referring to is GZ "using SYG" as a defense at trial. If that will be the defense (and that will be determined by how well or poor the prosecutions' case is presented) THEN SYG becomes a defense and THEN GZ must take the stand and convience (PROVE) a Jury (not the Judge) that he was in immenient danger for his life and had to use deadly force.

So you still have it backwards.

• !

#89.23 - Wed May 9, 2012 5:54 PM EDT

Yet, once I linked to my "proof", as to how it works...silence....

http://althouse.blogspot.com/2012/04/stand-your-ground-is-not-defense-but.html

Of course, with "some other female" posters, who shall remain unnamed, I just like to hear them ramble. It amuses me. Sorry, at my age I need some humor in my day.

It's okay for you to "comment", voice "your opinion", "debate" others, but I should just STFU?? Hmmmmmm.....

Jo-An....

It is really not what you say that tends to cause replys as much as how you say it. Let's look at my post to both you and Rhama.......

Is it just me or have you 2 actually read your posts? Sounds like you guys are waiting for a "door buster" sale at Target. Get a life!!!

Rhamas' response.......

Very funny ric, you telling someone to get a life. You are here as much as anyone else, so where is your life?

Tell the truth ric, you are as interested as anyone else, or you wouldn't be posting, don't worry I won't hold it against you. :)

Your response......

Rhama and I each have sons that are lawyers, and have commented that we "think alike". We actually are "friends" on here, so we have "conversations with each other", that's how it works. You can just skip over our comments, or hit the "ignore author" button, if you find our conversations so distressful.

And

Why are your opinions and comments okay, while mine are not?

Notice any difference? Rhama takes it for what it was..a somewhat humorous comment on the back and forth between you 2. You, on the other hand, take it as a personal attack. Why? You point out that you have a son who is a Lawyer. Does that give you anymore insight to facts, does that mean your position carries more weight, does that mean that you are correct 100% of the time and every else is wrong 100% of the time?. Or how about.....

It's okay for you to "comment", voice "your opinion", "debate" others, but I should just STFU?? Hmmmmmm

See the emphasis in bold. You are yelling. You are outraged. You want your opinions heard and you want your opinions to stand with out anyone disagreeing. You are not flexible, you are not open to other opinions as to how events might have unfolded. There is only one verdict in this case, yours.

We discussed the location of GZs' car at length yesterday. I ended my reply to you as follows...

If you can deduce another location I would gladly be open to your premise

#141.18 - Fri May 11, 2012 9:01 AM PDT

See, I was quite open to your thought formulation of how things may have unfolded. I really wanted to understand your thought process. What facts you were utilizing, how you put them together, how you came to your conclusions, your rational, if you utilized facts that supported both sides, if you made reasonable conclusions, if there were or were not in consistances, etc.

Your reply was rather one sided and rather judgemental and rather aggressive and defensive................

No one has said GZ was parked in front of the home where the incident took place.

Actually, plenty of people have contended just that!

But, we still don't have the official data to determine precise location.

I'm pretty sure "that" is precisely what I said.

I know you could say GZ might already have been heading back with the intent to move the car as he was still talking to dispatch, but that plays into his statement that he was attacked as he headed back.

Not, if Trayvon was MURDERED behind the houses. Maybe you should listen to the police tape again. You can hear GZ get out of vehicle, and you hear when the dispatcher told him "we don't need you to do that"...at that point we should assume GZ returned to his vehicle....correct? If he did, it would take 11 seconds to get back in his vehicle, I just listened to tape again, and he walked for approximately 11 seconds before dispatcher told him to stop.

Some exclaimation points to indicate your answer is both final and correct. Reiteration of "that" is what you said, as if I have no reading comprehension skills, "was MURDERED" (your emphasis on capitals since you already know how every thing went down, and poor me just goesn't get it so you will pound that into my little brain, MURDER) quite a statement of pre-judgement from some one who is always "waiting for all the facts." I could go on and on but that is not the reason for this reply.

Assuming you even read this far before firing off a reply, then I offer you the opportunity to do a little self reflection of your values regarding waiting for all the facts and stop assuming you are always being attacked. If you are a supporter of TM and believe GZ acted wrongly then there every reason for you to post your thoughts. If you do so in an objective factual manner instead of a subjective emotional one, even readers that may diagree with you will at least respect your opinions.

Ric,

I like how you left out the first two sentences of my response....

So, it bother's you that Rhama tells me something, and I reply?

You see Rhama and I are both curious to find out what the prosecution has as evidence....it seems you are too?

And instead jump right into My pointing out that Rhama and I are "friends" on here, and have a common bond, of sons that are lawyers. You read into that,

You point out that you have a son who is a Lawyer. Does that give you anymore insight to facts, does that mean your position carries more weight, does that mean that you are correct 100% of the time and every else is wrong 100% of the time?. Or how about.....

Which I never said, nor implied!

Assuming you even read this far before firing off a reply, then I offer you the opportunity to do a little self reflection of your values regarding waiting for all the facts and stop assuming you are always being attacked. If you are a supporter of TM and believe GZ acted wrongly then there every reason for you to post your thoughts. If you do so in an objective factual manner instead of a subjective emotional one, even readers that may diagree with you will at least respect your opinions.

You may find this hard to believe, but I could care less if you respect my opinions. I will still state my opinion that Trayvon was MURDERED!

Note the highlighted area!

Jo-An:

Yes; MURDERED!

Wow! Cannot wait until that discovery comes out.

Yes, Sir!!! Zimmie's team is NERVOUS!!!! Ole McNamara knows Zimmies a lying snake just by the little evidence that's been out all along. Now thousands more pages!!!!!!

Aw man, what can be on so many pages!!!!! Can't be nothing good for ole Zimmie; -he is toast.

Zimmie defenders really don't like to hear "MURDERED", do they? It offends their sense of pride!
Florida law says we should see Discovery evidence when it's given to defense, Monday, but O'Mara's going to try to delay. He needs to have some time to get his answers straight!
Zimme's toast!

Jo-An:

No they do not. I hear big news is in the wind? The evidence is about to drop?

Jo-An:

He needs to have some time to get his answers straight!

He's gonna need a whole lot of time to come up with answers for all those lies Zimmie told. Lol.

How's he gonna put George in front of a jury is beyond me. His credibility is toast. George is too.

Mrperryrice:

O'Mara's got some splainin to do, when the evidence is released! It's too late for him to try the "quiet" approach, he's been grandstanding all over the media, including social media, so reporters will want answers! He's smart enough to know he better regroup and come up with better answers than he has now!

I don't think he will put George in front of a jury, too risky, he's a liar!

@Mrperryrice...

Aw man, what can be on so many pages!!!!! Can't be nothing good for ole Zimmie; -he is toast

How about the balance of the evidence that has been collected that we have not been prevy to. Evidence from both sides. All the things we haven't yet seen. Forensics, ballistics, medical examiners reports, coronors report, crime scene statistices, toxology reports, medical reports, photos, statements supporting those photos, LE investigators' statements, witness enhanced statements, subsequent police reports, statements supporting those reports, powder burn, stippling, and clothing analysis, enhanced audios and transcriptions, audio analysis and supporting documentation, phone records, suponas of those records, analysis of those records, expert witness analysis, supporting documentaion of those witnesses credentials, additional possible witnesses who might have come forward after the fact, corroboration of their statements, finger print analysis, timeline analysis, statements of corroboration of those analysis, and god knows what else I might have missed.

Perhaps nothing good, as you say, or perhaps just the combined sum of the evidence of the case. Some evidence might be incriminating, some might be exonerating. That's how a trial works. You lay out what you have and both sides attempt to prove or disprove what is presented and a Jury determines what they believe.

You said in one of your posts theat unfortunately you had been there done that couple times. With out knowing, or asking, which side of the courtroom you were on (left or right) I assume you probably understand the process.

ric:

Excellent post!!! Everything you said in it is all true.

Aside from that, please know that the following is 1) a rhetorical question poking fun, and 2) a statement poking fun at those who are not interested in justice, but that Zimmie gets off no matter what. There are many of them.

Aw man, what can be on so many pages!!!!! Can't be nothing good for ole Zimmie; -he is toast

I was just poking fun -I'm fully aware that even the most guilty person will have an item or two in his favor; I expect no different for Zimmie. He'll have something -but will it amount to a hill of beans? We gotta wait and see. Meanwhile I'll give my opinions based on the facts we know.

You said in one of your posts theat unfortunately you had been there done that couple times. With out knowing, or asking, which side of the courtroom you were on (left or right)

Yes, in my past I've been on Zimmies's side (Defendant) for 4 trials :(

as the Plaintiff in a successful Civil Suit one time ;-) ...plus wrote successful Post Convictions and One Illegal Sentence for others.

I've engaged a few times studying Discovery evidence, looking up applicable laws and then fashioning winning narratives that fit the evidence and avoiding ones that didn't. I learned how a winning narrative must make sense, account for the evidence and discredit the witnesses against you, and -you cannot be caught in lies. (Zimmie got caught telling a self-serving lie about Trayvon's age at the bail hearing.) Credibility is everything -the jury must be able to believe what you say.

Zimmie's narrative already doesn't do that -plus how can his lawyer fashion a narrative to account for the upcomming evidence and discredit the prosecutions witnesses when he is already handcuffed by Zimmie's police statement, his statements through his father, then the one through his brother, then there's the bail hearing lie -all given already without knowing what the evidence or witnesses against him will be?

Because his lawyer is handcuffed to Zimmie's pre-mature statements from himself and his family, I am sure the prosecution will have some surprise evidence and witnesses that the prior statements will keep Zimmie's lawyer from being able to adjust to. Zimmie has talked and he doesn't even know what the evidence against him is. And the prosecution has a thousand pages of evidence to submit -yet gave none of it up at the bail hearing.

That's why I'm prognosticating that Zimmie's Discovery Hearing will be disastrous for him. It will be too hard for him to adjust his statements to the new information that's bound to come out. Even information that helps him in one way is bound to contradict the statements he's already made -which he can't adjust.

Zimmies got a losing narrative based on the little I see and know. He should have kept his mouth shut -then his lawyer would be free to run wild. He's just handcuffed now. Zimmies side is scared.

Of Course all this stuff, everything I say is only my opinion -but I've got confidence in it. And I think the evidence so far indicates Zimmerman is guilty of at least murder 2 -and the evidence tomorrow will make it much clearer. IMO.

Mrperryrice...

I tend to agree with your analysis. My opinion is that the case will hindge on just two major points. Was GZ in a situation that warranted fear for his life and was there a struggle for the weapon.

I say that because I don't truly buy into the followed/stalked theory. The reason I don't is that although GZ ran after TM when TM ran during the call, he had received 2 prior requsts from dispatch before that. Those requests were "let me know if he (TM) does anything else." That was said to GZ 2 times prior to TM running and it could be reasonably argued that GZ understood that to mean "maintain survaillance" I don't think that was the dispatchs' intention, but then again, dispatch had no way of knowing TM was about to run. It would be logical for GZ to run after TM if he had interperted the request as such. When dispatch realized GZ was following, and probably realizing that was not what he wanted him to do, dispatch asked, GZ said yes, and dispatch requested GZ not to follow and GZ complied (at least at that time of the call) So I think there is a reasonable arguement for both sides on that point. (again just laying out the facts we know at this time)

The next issue is where were both GZ and TM for the next 2 1/2 minutes? Unless there is a new witness who saw either, or an existing witness expanded on what they heard or saw, that point is conjecture on both sides. And as I am sure you understand, in a situation where there is reasonable doubt as to the proof or dis-proof of a particular point, the doubt always favors the defendent (Common Law Practices) So I feel this issue might be argued as to intent and purpose from both sides and a jury would have to be swayed one direction or the other.

Next point is the confrontation. Again, we at this time don't have an eye witness as to that. Yes we do have time stamped phone records that TM was on a call at that time with DeeDee. We have not yet heard her sworn statement (only her audio affidavit had been released by Mr Crump). The audio affidavit does provide some indication that GZ was still within the area and did exchange words with TM. And with out defending or bashing her statements to date, there were a couple of conflicting issues. Remember, their call started at 7:12 pm and according to her, when TM said he was being followed, she said he should run and he said he would just walk fast. Well, the conflict there is that at 7:11:37 (from the GZ call data) TM had already run prior to the 7:12 call. She also indicates that according to either her impression, or from TM saying to her, TM was cornered by GZ. The inconsistancy in that is that the area where they met up is a 30 yard wide by 120 yard long common area with no obstructions. Hopefully, he actual sworn statement will be released and we will then know exactly what she claims was said between herself and TM and exactly what she heard as background conversation. I look forward to that.

This brings us to the actual struggle. I understand that you believe that it did not occur on the concrete. I really can't say for sure one way or the other at this point. We both agree a struggle did occur correct? Until the prosecution releases new evidence that may or may not indicate there was a witness to the actual altercation and where it actually took place we are left with only the fact that it did happen but the details of grass verses concrete, TM on top or vise versa, struggle for the weapon or not are not yet conclusive.

This is how I come to my premise that this is the crucial time in the series of events. (assuming that the issue of the screams on the 911 call are, or will be, resolved by competent analysis one way or the other) Just an unbiased theory utilizing existing evidence.

Was the weapon out the entire time or did it come out just prior to the shot. Every thing leading to this point can be argured as intent by the prosecution but it can also be argued as a series of events that unfolded in a reasonable sequence of events. One action leading to the next not by design (prosecutions' view) but by normal reasonable thought process (defense view). The Jury will have to make that determination. The reason I focuse on the weapon is that it has been reported that it jammed. I explained this in one of my posts where I indicated that the Kel Tec PF9 is a relatively small weapon. Overall length under 6 inches, overall height under 5 inches. It has a double pull feature so that the trigger(5 LB pull) must be fully retracted in order for it to fire. Forensics should be able to determine if both TM and GZ were gripping the weapon at the same time (GZ one or both hands on the grip, TM one or both hands wrapped around the muzzle) Both gripping the weapon as such could easily have impeeded the slide mechanism to the point of a fresh round not being chambered. If that was the case, there would be powder burns and stippling on TMs' lower arms and if both were gripping the weapon simutaniously, there should also have been powder burns on GZs' hands. Wrestling for the weapon and both pulling at it in opposite directions could account for the position TMs' body ultimately wound up at. Additional rearward force exerted at the time of the shot, as well as the impact of the bullet, may have propelled him further than just falling flat on GZ. I am sure both sides will fully argue that notion because it could account for the "on the grass not on the grass issue".

So it almost could come dowm to a "sudden combat" situation where both are fearing for their lives from their own perspective and nelther would have been acting or reacting rationally, I am certain both sides will have expert behavioral science experts testify regarding that issue. In my brief research into that area I have found the consenses that in a "sudden combat" situation, high level brian functions like decision making, memory, and rational skills are overpowered by instinctive actions when an individual is under stress or duress. I can easily see that applying to both of them.

I know this was somewhat long winded but considering that you indicated you had done comperable research and writing in the past I felt that although you may not agree with my analysis, you could at least appreciate it.

Mrperryrice

Just wanted to add so you understand. When I said I agree with your analysis that included the inconsitancies in GZ statements. I don't accept any of his fathers' or brothers' or his friend Taafees' statements. I do think the trial and defense will be an uphill battle for O'Mara, but stranger things have happened (AKA Casey Anthony for example) The prosecution really must focus on the pertinent facts and succeed in driving them home. O'Mara will be attempting to undercut them all the way. If they don't stay focused they will not prevail. They need to stay away fromthe trivial issues. If they harp on trivial issues they will lose the jury and perhaps even have the jury develop sympahty for GZ.

ric-635471:

Speaking to your last post first:

When I said I agree with your analysis that included the inconsitancies in GZ statements. I don't accept any of his fathers' or brothers' or his friend Taafees' statements.

Then it is true! You have not automatically accepted every statement out of Georgie's camp as true. You have articulated problems with both sides, not just Trayvon's -a fair, fair man! All Zimmie, Tray and both families can ask for. For them, this hell. For those involved a criminal trial is terrifying.

I do think the trial and defense will be an uphill battle for O'Mara, but stranger things have happened (AKA Casey Anthony for example).

Yup, nobody can tell what a jury will decide -that's why neither side can slip. And so far George's mouth is the first slip in this case (and I suspect that and the rift he had with his first lawyers may be rooted in what George thinks he knows from his Criminal Justice Courses). You are right, the prosecution must focus, focus focus on the pertinent facts and succeed in driving them home or they will lose -they cannot slip up by creating sympathy for George. Both sides has a gruelling, long-winded task that could end with a single slip that sways the jury.

ric-635471:

Responding to this from the first of your two posts:

My opinion is that the case will hindge on just two major points. Was GZ in a situation that warranted fear for his life and was there a struggle for the weapon.

Yes, yes! -what was happening immediately prior to, & at that moment George pulled the trigger?

The jury must be able to believe what George said was happening during those moments -while the prosecution must put on evidence showing the jury must not believe George, nor overly sympathize with him or with what he has said about those moments -their evidence and witnesses must contradict George and chop down his credibility and overcome any sympathy the jury may have for him (both sides will have jurors sympathizing with either one or the other, but the sanctity of their task, the Judges instructions, and the evidence of the case I trust will cause all the jurors to rise to their Constitutional duty to put personal favoritism aside and render their decisions according to the evidence of the case and the law). If the evidence destroys Georges credibility and his narrative -jurors in favor of him will vote guilty according to the facts; and if his credibility and narrative has not been destroyed by the evidence then those who may favor Trayvon will rise to the occassion and vote not guilty. We must believe the jury will do the right thing. I do.

Dammit!!!! It's killing me to know the forensics on the gun evidence you elaborated on, the powder burns, the fingerprints, the gun jamming, etc!!! Come on let the evidence out!!! Whew!!!

I say that because I don't truly buy into the followed/stalked theory.

On this we must agree to disagree. I see you believe Trayvon may have been followed because George thought dispatch asked him to keep his eyes on Trayvon no matter what, and that George thought even running after Trayvon was in accord with the dispatcher's request until George heard otherwise -which he immediately complied with and cut off the pursuit -which of course requires that Trayvon turned around and came at George? Whew!!! We must agree to disagree on that. Hey, there is no doubt in my mind that there is a great chance that reluctant witnesses to these unknown moments may have been uncovered by the prosecution, the defense, or the FBI's investigations. Yes, sir! It's most likely that people have seen more than what first came out. Time will tell -I trust.

I really appreciate your objectivity, and your efforts at fairness and honesty in this discussion. It's really a breath of fresh air after all the "pissing contests" I've been guilty of engaging in on here. Doing that stuff has everyone focused on the side and personal issues that do not amount to a hill of beans in the case. I like it this way -focus, focus, focus on the stuff that matters to this case -and not on each other, or politics etc. Just the facts of the case.

The next issue is where were both GZ and TM for the next 2 1/2 minutes?...that point is conjecture on both sides

Well, maybe not to George -he flat out stated where he was, during the walk through I'm sure he showed the police, but claims not to know at some point where Trayvon was. (As you pointed out elsewhere in the open area there were no obstructions so how could Trayvon be cornered? But it cuts both ways -how could Trayvon have hidden and suddenly appeared behind George on the way back to his car?) As you suggest -perhaps there's new witnesses to shed light on this. I hope so. I wanna know bad! LOL.

Next point is the confrontation. Again, we at this time don't have an eye witness as to that.

Agreed -but hope witnesses are forthcoming at discovery! Until then all we have is the girl's ear witnessing of Trayvon's spontaneous statement which does not describe Trayvon going after Zimmerman but the other way around, and Zimmerman's telling a conflicting account. Whew! Big, Big issue, much bigger for Zimmerman though because it speaks to his credibility -if the girl is believed on this point and not him, then Zimmerman is not likely to be believed at the even more critical point of the shooting. It is all but absolute that Zimmerman's account of the confrontation be believed and not the girls -he can have no witnesses come forth and say George approached Trayvon -at that point he would no longer recieve the advantage of being given the benefit of any doubt; George will lose the jury, they will not take kindly to being lied to.

If that happened the only thing that could save him is witnesses coming forth saying his head was being banged on the concrete, substantiating George's first account of shooting the kid; George is off the hook then -even I would find him not guilty if I heard that from credible witnesses.

We both agree a struggle did occur correct?

Correct; the struggle is about the only thing that cannot be contested -people heard and actually saw it to varying degrees.

I understand that you believe that it did not occur on the concrete.

I heard no witness say where it started -but all of them I heard so far say that long before the shot, the struggle was already happening in the grass, and when the shot happened, that too was in the grass. You are correct, I see that as one of George's problems, a mammoth one not to be dismissed or glossed over -because it's in direct contradiction of his first headbanging on the concrete reason for shooting, then the struggle for the gun second reason where George has both those events happening on the side-walk

-according to George's father George told him that George's head was being banged on the side-walk while he was on his back, and exposed his gun when he tried to twist his head off of the sidewalk, and at that point, on his back, near the sidewalk the struggle for the gun occurred and George won and shot him to prevent him from shooting him, and according to the brother, to stop his head from getting banged on that concrete. Either way, wheteher father or Brother's account -the sidewalk is critical to George's narrative, it is the elephant in the room, and although minimized on these vines -the elephant will be fully vetted in that courtroom to destroy Georges account of the actual reason he chose to shoot. If witnesses do not place him on his back, at least next to the sidewalk when the shot went off, then the jury has no reason but to disbelieve his reason for the shooting -and he'll lose every benefit of any doubt.

If those screams are not resolved by scientific means in George's favor, if he is discredited anywhere else, he will also lose the benefit of the doubt about the screams too-the jury will find it credible to attribute them to the victim. The prosecution will not even have to prove they are Trayvon's -common sense and the rest of the evidence will convince them of it beyond a reasonable doubt. There're not giving it to a discredited George. (George cannot be shown to lie about any important matter in this trial).

Was the weapon out the entire time or did it come out just prior to the shot.

With the evidence at hand, especially all the screaming for help being rendered so heart wrenchingly, clearly in terror -the gun was apparently out at least the entire time of the screaming, and one was trying to shoot, and the other trying not to get shot. Even with both their hands on the gun, if George is discredited as a liar anywhere else he will not get the benefit of this doubt, and Trayvon will be seen as struggling to not get shot and calling for help the whole time, while George will be seen as spending that time trying to shoot Trayvon out of outrage and vengeance for beating him up with the ice tea at the beginning of the fight.

The other relevant issues you mentioned that will probably play a role in the defense, from the sudden combat state of mind that disorients a person, to the first lawyer's issue of the shaken-baby-syndrome discombobulating George -if George's narrative is proven a lie anywhere else, George will lose the benefit of all those defenses. The jury will find that George shot Trayvon for beating him with the can of Ice tea, even if they don't think George pre-meditated it all along. If I were to write the prosecution's narrative that's what it would be.

Yup, that would be my narrative: That Trayvon was struggling over the gun and calling for help to stop George from shooting him (that's if Trayvon's prints are on the gun); the sreaming for help means he had no intention of shooting George with it, or else like George who intending to shoot -he'd have kept silent too. I mean who calls for help when they intend or are trying to shoot someone? And if the boy is screaming for help for a whole minute, George had no reason to fear for his life. All he had to do was hold on and keep Trayvon from getting the gun. He did not have to shoot a screaming for help person when he got control of it.

@Mrperryrice.....

Thanks for the reply. Yep, nice to have an unbiased debate. Quite refreshing. If we don't always agree that is human nature. Our individual thought processes and that is what makes each of us unique. I certanly don't want a society of Asimov's androids where we become "one of us". Free thinking, free exchange of ideas, the right to opposing views.

Peace

ric-635471:

Yep.

Thanks

Peace and blessings to you too ric!!

@Rhama...

O'Mara is just filing the required motions to insure that witness related info is fully redacted prior to being released. This is due to Judge Lesters order that redacted info be done on a case by case basis via motions. It also insures that the media, who have filed a motion for immediate release, and who are lusting over the releases, do not get access prior to complete redaction.

Nothing special here. Just CYA for both sides. Prosecution is in full compliance and agreement with O'Maras' motions.

ric, you are preaching to the choir, I know Angela Corey agreed to some of O'Maras motions, but the media has made motions to have full discovery released to the public sighting Florida Law. as of yet I have not heard what the judge was ruled on the medias motion. I know some things have already been released such as affidavits on the bond hearing, affidavits on Zimmerman's dress, a suit as opposed to jail attire etc, but nothing on discovery. Personally I think O'Mara is stalling for personal reasons, because as he said today to our local reporter in Sanford he needs more time. I have my own opinion on that but no need to say it, I will wait and see.

@Rhama...

OK WE are on the same page. Mea Cupa once again.

Yes we are ric. I wrote something to you at 151.12.

Saw it. Thank you.

Have a good evening & we'll chat at the next "headline"....................

Ok Good night.

Rhama,

I see O'Mara will expects the evidence Monday, but is filing a motion to keep it from the public until witness names can be removed. That makes sense, but you'd think that would be done as a matter of routine in a big case like this! I'm really curious to know what the FBI and DOJ have uncovered!

Jo-An: I know it does seem like it should be covered, personally I think he's stalling for personal reasons. His web site is case in point and I'm sure you are aware of what is going on there.

Jo-An: I agree with you about the FBI and DOJ, I have an idea, but they have not said what they have, I would imagine they won't say right now until they decide if they are going to file separate charges. I find this fascinating because they assisted the procecutors investigation and they were out there for weeks, now they are doubling back.

I've never seen O'Mara's website, I'm looking it up now!

This is O'Mara's comment about discovery.

Public release of the of the discovery may be delayed as we may be filing a motion to further redact information, and an opportunity to review the discovery is necessary to determine the applicability of that motion.

Yeah, he sees eager to get his ducks in a row, before the evidence is released to the public!

Florida law requires the discovery be made public when it is released, it will be interesting to see what the judge says!

no link

Really....where was GZ's car parked? What network was it on? Maybe I can find it online!

GZ's car was parked on the right side of the street with the front facing the path. Travon may have hidden and Zimmerman found him. That could be why he did not want to keep going and lead this stalker to where he was heading. If trayvon was scared as his Girl friend had said. What is very interesting those that are for Zimmerman never mention the phone call to the Girlfriend except to say that if he was scared he would have hung up and called the police. Well a rational person can figure that out also.

Edward, Edward, Edward.....They don't mention the girlfriend, and what she said, because "most" don't believe her, and so they brush her statements aside! Of course the one witness named "John"....he is the crux of their case! They ALL believe HIM! Nevermind the 3 other witnesses that oppose his claim!

Luckily, this will go before a jury, and they take their duties quite seriously! Zimmie supporters won't make it into jury.

Joe-An according to Taaffe it was close to where Trayvon was shot, but I would take that with a grain of salt, because it's Taaffe his friend. It brings up the question how did he know did he see the truck parked there or did Zimmerman just tell him where he was parked. Maybe this is why the FBI is going over this case again. Taaffe is in the middle of this one way or another, it's very complicated but I have an idea where they are going, but will keep it to myself for now. I don't like to put anything that would tell anyone where I live or I would give you the station who reported this.

Rhama:

Joe-An according to Taaffe it was close to where Trayvon was shot

Rhama, please tell me if you can, in which direction were the headlights pointing? Did Zimmerman have the headlights facing down the path, as to enlighten it?

Or were the headlights facing the street as they would be if one is parallel parked?

Sorry Mrperryvine they didn't show a car at all just Taaffe pointing in the direction but he gave no explanation as to the direction the car was pointing.

Rhama:

but he gave no explanation as to the direction the car was pointing.

Man -I was hoping so because I want to know that bad. Guess we'll have to wait until a witness, photos or or some other evidence sheds light on that for us. I know if they speak about the video from the shed that may answer a few mysteries. Just gotta wait. Since it's gonna show their movement prior to going between the building-I suspect it won't be too good for Zimmie.