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Two Southern California police officers must stand trial in the death of mentally ill homeless man Kelly Thomas, whose beating by cops was captured in a graphic video shown publicly for the first time this week in court, a judge ruled Wednesday.
Reuters
Fullerton police officers Jay Cicinelli, left, and Manuel Ramos were ordered Wednesday to stand trial in the death of Kelly Thomas in Orange County Superior Court in Santa Ana, Calif.
Superior Court Judge Walter Schwarm said in Santa Ana, Calif., there was sufficient evidence presented during a three-day preliminary hearing – including the showing of the 33-minute black-and-white video – that a jury trial was in order for Officer Manuel Ramos, charged with second-degree murder and involuntary manslaughter, and Cpl. Jay Cicinelli, charged with involuntary manslaughter and assault or battery by a public officer. Both have pleaded not guilty.
It is the first time in Orange County history that a police officer has been ordered to stand trial on a murder charge for actions that occurred while on duty and in uniform, the Orange County Register reported.
Ramos, 38, a 10-year veteran of the Fullerton Police Department, remains free on $1 million bail pending his next court date to select a trial judge. He faces a potential sentence of 15 years to life in prison if convicted.
Cicinelli, 42, remains free on $25,000 bail pending a hearing before Superior Court Judge Craig Robison. He faces a potential four-year term in prison if convicted.
"This is another victory, on another battle," said Thomas' father, Ron. "We're going to start a new one with the trial."
John Barnett, Ramos' attorney, said he would seek another court's review of Schwarm's ruling and did not expect his client would end up facing a jury trial.
"We're disappointed that they were held to answer but we will seek review in an appropriate manner," he told reporters after the ruling. "He believes, and he is innocent."
Earlier Wednesday, Orange County's top prosecutor argued that Ramos and Cicinelli abused their "awesome powers" when they took part in wrestling the homeless and schizophrenic victim to the ground and pounding him into unconsciousness.
Defense attorneys, however, argued that their clients used reasonable force to restrain a combative suspect, and that no crimes were committed.
District Attorney Tony Rackauckas contended that Ramos' attitude, unlawful conduct and bullying of Thomas turned a routine encounter at the Fullerton Transportation Center last July 5 into a deadly beating.
Rackauckas contended that Ramos triggered the sequence of events when he snapped on rubber gloves, turned to a sitting Thomas and threatened "You see these fists? ... They are getting ready to f--- you up."
Within seconds of those words, Rackauckas said, Thomas was taken down, pummeled with fists and a Taser gun, and subdued by six officers, including Cpl. Cicinelli, Ramos' co-defendant, who arrived a few minutes and immediately jumped into the pile. Thomas screamed for help, asked for his Dad, and complained that he couldn't breathe before he slowly went silent during the struggle.
He never regained consciousness and died five days later after life support was removed at UCI Medical Center. A county pathologist testified during the preliminary hearing that Thomas died from injuries and chest compression during the beating that deprived him of oxygen.
"It's a bad day in Orange County, a very bad day, when we have to charge two police officers with these crimes," Rackauckas said. "They are sworn uphold the law, and trusted with the authority given to them by the state of California."
But defense attorney Barnett said his client had every right to detain and arrest Thomas, who refused to cooperate when the officers asked the homeless man for his name, the attorney said.
"Officer Ramos is not looking for a fight," Barnett argued. "He is not looking to beat somebody. ... He is just looking to get some information and be on his way."
Barnett contended that what is perceived to be a threat by Ramos to Thomas -- "See these fists? They are getting ready to f--- you up" -- was followed by the statement "If you don't do what we tell you."
"It was a conditional threat," Barnett said. "All Kelly Thomas would have had to do was simply comply. ... Officer Ramos had every right to issue that threat."
"He was trying to resolve this before trying to take him into custody, but Kelly Thomas would have no part of it," Barnett said.
Cicinelli, who was the third officer to arrive at the scene, rushed to the aid of two other officers struggling on the ground with Thomas, argued his defense attorney Michael Schwartz.
"The only information he (had was) that he was responding to (a) call involving a combative suspect," Schwartz said. Cicinelli, he said, joined the struggle to help his fellow officers and used appropriate force.
Schwartz also played segments of the video that he says show another officer delivering punches to Thomas' face and upper torso.
The video, according to Schwartz, appears to show Cicinelli pulling his Taser away from the reach of Thomas, who was trying to wrestle the weapon from his hand, Schwartz said, and Cicinelli was trained as a police officer to never give up his weapon.
"We can all agree that any loss of life is a tragedy," Schwartz said. "But there was no crime here. ... There was none."
The incident last July prompted an ongoing FBI investigation to determine if Thomas' civil rights were violated, an internal probe by the city, protests by residents and an effort to recall three Fullerton councilmembers that is slated for next month's ballot.
Earlier: Video of police beating homeless man brings gasps in courtroom
This article includes reporting by The Associated Press.
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Death penalty
Just by their pictures alone they look like they enjoyed 'detaining' people. They also enjoyed detaining fast food bags full of Mc Donalds and Burger King.
this is california pd, lazy idiots with a power chip on their shoulder. While in the Navy an altercation happenned when a group of skinheads threw rocks at my car driving by us kicking it. When I found a few officers on foot patrol and tried to report it, they told me to go away, I insisted so they arrested me, beat the @!$%# out of me, and took me to some place for a drug, alcohol test, next morning I awoke in a shelter. When I called the police about it, there was no record it ever happened. This happened at mission beach in San Diego.
I would guess Mensa has not called them.
Wish I could be surprised by this. A pig is a pig is a pig.
The same thing just happened in Westerly Rhode Island last year when 3 cops ganged up on a guy at a bar (he wasn't even drunk, and it was just a disorderly conduct call), they beat him to death with their batons (coroners report says he died from internal bleeding from blunt force trauma, specifically dying to the lacerated liver they gave him)
The cops got away with it 100%, even the RI grand jury says the cops were "within the line of duty" in their obvious use of excessive force.
These things happen all the time, in every state across the country. Don't be suprised, and don't ever give a cop the benefit of the doubt just because they're a cop. There's always the possibility of abuse of power and corruption. I personally pay a lot more attention to stories like this ever since this happened in Westerly because it's where I live and the corruption in the town's police force here is disgusting.
There's a change.org petition from the guys wife asking for the FBI to look into the case, if anyone cares to know more, http://www.change.org/petitions/justice-for-ryan-o-loughlin.
The use of "keyword phrases" by cops has become an epidemic in the U.S. , apparently they are taught that as long as they are saying "stop resisting" or "relax" they can beat people with impunity.
"stop resisting" ... while we collapse your lungs.
"relax" ... while I try to wrench your arm out of socket.
Believe it or not every living creature on the planet reacts to physical harm by resisting it.
I hope the boys in prison tell these pigs to "relax" and to "stop resisting" while they are getting what they used to give.
P.S.
Didn't 6 officers participate in the murder? Why are only the 2 ugliest and fattest being charged?
I was thinking the same thing,why only two of the criminials are being charged.
There is one thing that you cannot do and that is call these cops pigs,these are full grown hogs
Sadistic sociopaths with a license to kill. I agree, where are the other three? They should all be on trial for first degree murder. I heard the original tape released on the beating death and it was horrific. The poor victim screaming and shrieking, call for his Dad while these fat pieces of filth systematically beat and tasered him to death. Then there were the pics of the victim, his face so horribly mangled it resembled nothing human. Manslaughter??? The people living in the area must feel so secure with garbage like those fat slobs masquerading as police. Who protects the citizens from the police?
http://www.youtu.be.com/watch?v=eolzmcSZ75Q
For some reason the website won't come up. Just type in before and after photos for evidence of what these stalwart pieces of crap did to another human being.
Just another reason I avoid law enforcement. I get profiled all the time.
I have also been a victim of police brutallity due to depression. I have been tied down to a hospital bed due to false reports from police officers and also "I had an officer hold his 300 pound knee in my neck until we reached the emergency room. I am lucky I survied this incident in Manatee County, Florida that the EMT"S did not even report this incident. Take a look for yourself at the Manatee County Emergency Room when a police officer beat this other girl so bad that the "Blood" was everywhere, also look at the people that work for this hospital that stood by and did NOTHING for quite some time until someone called the Police Headquarters and this girl all of a sudden immediately received medical treatment. I agree with everyone that this needs to be stopped immediately. You never know but you might be the cops next victim. I am moving my family to a new location due to the excessive force in FLORIDA "THE SUNSHINE STATE" LIKE CALIFORNIA THAT BEATS THE HELL OUT OF INOCENT PEOPLE FOR NO REASON.
MyGirl1 you have my 100% vote along with my family and friends and I don't care what state you are in "I also heard the complete video".
Anyone one listing please do not let this one get away.
I cried and prayed for this man when I saw the video. Please all viewers lets put a stop to this.
Yes, the Killer Kops, and their crooked lawyers too, should be taken out and hung from the nearest lamppost. The worst gangs of all are the brutal gang in blue and their sleazy lawyer accomplices.
May these sorry excuses of law enforcement officers rot in jail and hell. I see homeless people in Los Angeles everyday, some are in obvious need of mental help. These fat a$$e$ deserve to be beaten to death as well
Your an idiot and dont understand or want to understand that this is a mentally deranged subject that brought his death upon himself by continuing to fight and resist. Unfortunate but he did it to himself. There is nothing illegal or out of policy done by ANY of the officers involved. We should just let the animals run the streets.
Sad day? It's a great day to charge these two jokers. The sad day was when a gang of color murdered a civilian.
“schizophrenic victim”
WTF? What makes him a victim? If he had co-operated there wouldn’t even be a story. To all you schizophrenic’s out there, keep taking your meds and obey the laws and you won’t be a victim of
stupidity!
http://pixiq.com/article/shocking-video-of-kelly-thomas-released-watch-with-caution
This was nothing if not vicious brutality and murder. Now, one homeless schizophrenic agains how many cops with tasers and batons? The cops were waaay out of line, they continued the frenzy and perhaps most telling, the 'wounds' the officers received, a scrape on the elbow which could have happened during the beating. The judge had to pause the tape several times to allow people to recover from the visual assualt of watching the beating. Most telling is the massive amount of blood on the pavement, all coming from Kelly. That's below the video, a crime scene photo.
Also, on the same article page is a photo of the victim's face, or what was left of it, after the beating. Somehow, if this was 'necessary' to serve and protect the populace, perhaps the populace would be far better off unprotected.
Sorry but I have to voice my opinion of the Fullerton Police Department!!!!! You are here to PROTECT AND SERVE... NOT KILL AND INNOCENT HOMELESS MAN WITH A SEVERE MENTAL CONDITION!!! MAY HE REST IN PEACE AND MAY HIS FAMILY GET JUSTICE. May God keep and comfort his FAMILY and hold them in his arms. it just sickens me, the police used such force on one man who continually said yes sir i am sorry sir I cant breath please GOD help me then started calling his Daddy to help him! I am sickened pure and plain sickened...
John and Confussed I guess if this was your child you would be OK with the outcome. They killed him because he refused to give his name. What crime did he commit? We used to trust the police to protect and defend us, but not any more. The only difference between a cop and a criminal today, is a badge.
to John Senel
Please tell me how this poor homeless man brought all of this on to him self? i cant believe you even thought that and then had the nerve to post it!! This was not his fault it was all of the police officers that were out of control.Since when does it take 4 or 5 police officers to get 1 man under control?they should all be charged this poor man did not stand a chance i did not listen to the video and I'm now glad i did not because of the way some of the comments said of the man screaming and calling for his father.I read that they still was beating him.Its a very sad day when the mentally ill cant find protection from the police who are suppose to protect and serve our communities on an everyday basis.How sad is it when they police become the enemy and we as citizens become the victim.
Sad.
Sad that they are afforded so much protection that they would get away with such things all this time up until now.
to vegas
don't forget the badge and their gun which they have on them at all times when they are on duty.
These @!$%#ing pigs need to be hung up by the ankles and chainsawed from crotch to crown!
Look at these two poice officers there both what 250-300 lbs easy. You're telling me that they could not get that man whos what maybe 170 on his best day probably more like a 150 to put his hands behind his back. They are trained in pressure points and to subdue people. It would have been no problem for them to get both of that mans hands behind his back if thats what they wanted to do. They were looking for someone to beat up for whatever reason it may be and I hope and pray that justice finds them. Hopefully in a prison shower room!!!!
I can't help but wonder.....
Would there be more media attention
Would there be more public outcry and more justice.......
If he were black?
These cops and anyone who stands with them need to be tortured in the worse possible manner. I pray that they get convicted of every charge possible.
The only good cop is a dead cop.
This will only end when cops are as afraid of people they 'talk to' as those people are of them. To wit, every single resident should arm themselves and shoot cops on site.
It's been a while since I have been living in Europe. Here I have no Miranda rights, the police can search me whenever they want, ask me for papers I have to produce or risk being detained. If I am driving I can be pulled over for no reason and my vehicle can be searched without any kind of probable cause, and usually is. Why is it that Europe has civilized law enforcement? Cops in the U.S. are possibly the absolute worse law enforcement officers I have ever encountered. Even the crooked police of Mexico seem to have more professionalism than the animals the U.S. has patrolling the streets. What goes through a human beings head when he is assulting someone who is crying for their father? Pure animals, animals that the people of the United States need to finally stand up to and say enough. It's time to finally make being a cop in the U.S. harder than being a 7-11 attendant.
Less. What's the ratio of missing black women to missing white women in the national news?
Nice try though, bigot.
Maple that is some sick @!$%#. The video makes me sick, two men should have been able to lay him flat and put his arms behind him.
They make me nervous, I can smell cops when they are around me its like a sixth sense. They all look and act the same. Its like a gang that cannot be punished. It is kinda scary.
"COPS" Do WHAT they want to WHO they want an WHEN they want. Look at those N.O. cops shooting and killing hurricane survivors "WALKING" across a bridge. I would be willing to bet that 95% of cops are on a "POWER TRIP".
Lets not bash cops for being cops. Yes, some cops (possibly even most) do have a chip on their shoulder, but there are good honest cops out there. They are out shined by the others but they are there. I know several. This situation made them sick and we all took up a collection to help this man's family. Just keep that in mind when you make such statements.
burn in hell, pigs
Just by their pictures alone they look like they've run face first into brick walls during their youth! HA!
No wonder they are incapable of identifying someone who is a schizo. You need the brain power for basic observational analysis. Cicinelli's thought process is probably more along the lines of "Mongo SMASH!!!"
I could care less if Kelley wouldn't tell them his name. There is no law saying you have to respond to a cop's questions and his only physical moves of resistance were when he was trying to breathe, after they were already on top of him. You can't blame someone for giving into survival instincts when their life is being threatened. I guarantee you police policy doesn't give permission to beat someone within an inch of their life just for being verbally defiant, or talking crazy.
From my look at this video from my take is it was - PURE PREMEDITATED MURDER...!!! For NO REASON should anybody be held down when gasping for air.! & when the others arrive they only go Bannannas again. They shoild all be put on trial & face there due.!!!!!
Finally! And there is no death penalty for second degree murder. *sheeeeeeeesh*
From the video that is included with this story it is difficult to see that the officers did anything wrong. It looks like they are trying to restrain an extremely combative subject. Unless there is some other video clearly showing the officers doing something wrong they are going to get off. Granted, what the officer said was completely uncalled for, but that still does not give a person justification for resisting arrest. Of course any death in custody raises red flags regarding the way the person was treated. I have not been following the story, so I am assuming there is some more definitive evidence that the officers did something wrong to support the judge's decision. From the video here, I do not see it, but I will reserve judgement until all the evidence is made public.
are you retarded? excessive force plus verbal threats to 'f' someone up? are you a retard or what? geezus, how do you even survive life? its just mind boggling really...
I agree with JS. The video shows a lot of wrestling and some pretty uncooperative behavior from the suspect. As one cop noted, this guy was on something. What was on the rest of the 33-min video we haven't seen?
And John, can't you disagree with someone without resorting to insults? People aren't retarded just because they don't see things as you do. Did the Trayvon fiasco teach you nothing about jumping to conclusions?
No, John is right, JS is retarded. Any cop who cannot control a suspect without killing him, should not be a cop. Any pig ever tells me that he is going to F-me up, will end up in the morgue someday soon. Most cops are good people but too many of them are basically uneducated, unempolyable boobs that would most likely be homeless without a government job.
JS & AG
I have followed this from when it first happen. Even Stevie Wonder could see they were wrong, When you are in Pain you squirm, if you do Squirm they call it resisting, nice loop hole. As a Combat Vet and Martial Artist I know better. See no Insults you are just wrong.
Bad policemen. This must not be allowed to stand. This was murder.
In my opinion the guy died from Excited Delirium. Check out the video on Youtube. Same thing.. From what I hear is the brain heats up to 106 degrees.. and the person can still spit out short phrases but their level of impairment is so severe they aren't aware of their actions. They also have near super human strength. It's happening more and more due to drug abuse. Check out the video on Youtube.. no beating, only slight struggle and the man still died. Just my opinion.
No, JS and AG99 are right. This defiant idiot is the retarded one who got himself killed. When you are placed under arrest, it takes all of five seconds to comply. This didn't begin with excessive force and verbal threats. It started with the "victim" who was given instructions by an officer and decided to be combative. When a police officer tells you to place your hands behind your back, that is not a request. Then, he was told repeatedly to stop resisting, turn over, give them his arm, calm down, etc. How many videos have we seen on COPS with scumbags just like this one saying the same thing, "Ok, dude. Ok. I'm sorry, dude."... as they continue to struggle and fight the officers? It's not optional; the police aren't going to change their minds about arresting you and just leave. They have no choice but to FORCE you to be placed under arrest if you don't comply peacefully. Even if it means things get steadliy worse and more uncomfortable for you. If there is a 30 MINUTE!!! video of your arrest and you died of a heart attack as an unexpected result of being tazed, THAT IS YOUR OWN DUMB FAULT! Same goes with being blinded by mace, bitten by dogs, killed in a high speed chase, etc. Yes, police officers should be professional in the way they speak and enforce the arrest, but they are also in danger and under an extreme amount of adrenaline, and after dealing with an incooperative scumbag for that long, I would probably not have had as much patience myself to even let it go on as long as it did. If I had to wrestle around on the ground with this guy like they had to, you better believe I would have some choice words for him! It's a thankless job. I wonder how the people that would come to this guy's defense would feel if they were the ones who had to go out and try to restrain a junky. I'd like to see how they would handle things and how long they could keep their cool.
JSinSD. You are a pos. Probably a cop and a bully. I hope that you or one of your buddies tries me on for size one day. This idea that crap like you has that cops can do whatever they want must have the founding fathers doing backflips in their graves. You and your kind should get out of this country and take your inbred friends and relatives with you.
No beating? Did you see the photos of Kelly Thomas and the damage these monsters who call themselves cops, did to him? This was murder. He was beaten to death.
In San Diego there have been instances where the pigs shot someone in the back more than 20 times....IN THE BACK, reloaded, shot some more times in the back and got off for self defense.
Dead witnesses cannot testify
A cop in his own private car, shot through his own windshield and shot a child and his mom..... Guess who got charged.
A cop, in his own private car, repeatedly shot a football player in the back multiple times and ruined his career.......guess who got charged?......guess who back on the job next week?
When people in their 60's see a cop, they will not even walk on the same side of the street, and if you see a cop harassing someone....god help you. If you dare say anything, you will be arrested. Try to film anything and you will be arrested.
Hard to find anyone who does not have a cop story..... and I am not talking about street riff raff, I am talking about professionals.....doctors, professors, business owners.
Used to be .....now many years ago, people respected police. Now almost everybody fears them.
Ok, what's your point? Years ago, you didn't have the mentally retarded running the streets making every doorway their home...
The fact that the dead victim was a mentally ill person, is reason enough for the charges against the brutal force that was used. Tazing repeatedly? Victim was already restrained, just not rolling over. In this psychiatric patient, he may not have understood the commands, and under the stress of everything, not just mental, but physical, could have been in a psycotic episode.
Look at the facial expression on the picture of the "officer" on the right, he has total distane for everything. He intended violence from the beginning by cursing and throwing up fists in the face of a mentally deranged individual.
It is as bad as the Rodney King incident. And I also agree that when younger we were taught to go to the Police if we needed help. Now, it is the last thing that I think. However, we must submit to the authorities put over us, not blindly, but with wisdom. God have Mercy on his soul!
Imagine what they would have done to the videographer if they had seen him/her filming them.
Pretty good camera work and great audio, without the poor mans family wouldn't have had a chance against the "corrupt blue line".
99% of cops make the rest look bad.
It does not say in this article that he was being arrested. I does say that Officer Ramos was just looking for some info and then he would be on his way. Citizens have no obligation to provide your name or any other info to police without legal grounds. These police had no right to question him, he had no obligation to comply. He was not resisting arrest, he was resisting getting the hell beat out of him by thugs. But we can see what happens to a citizen who asserts his rights- he was murdered.
Fern, first of all, Kelly Thomas was not a "junkie". He was a homeless schizophrenic. His tox-screen was negative. Second, he was not being arrested. He would not comply with Officer Ramos' request for his name. Third, there had been a call from a local restaurant owner, who did not like Kelly Thomas hanging around (he was bad for business) that there was "some cars being broken into" (though there were no other reports of vandalized cars or thefts that night). Because that area is a public area (it's the Fullerton train station), the restaurants there cannot make people leave. Rumor has it that this particular restaurant owner was told to make this kind of report so that Kelly Thomas could be "picked up". Otherwise, the cops cannot make him leave the area if he's not doing anything, as it's a public area. There are a bunch of restaurants in that area, including one owned by a local rock band singer. I am not saying that he called it in but the rumor is that one of the owners of one of the many restaurants around there did. When all this went down, people who were eating at the restaurants, including The Slide Bar (a very crowded, popular place), saw it go down and all their stories have been that the cops were beating the living crap out of this guy for no reason and that he was trying to comply but they kept whaling on him. Also, the other story going around is that Officer Ramos KNEW Kelly Thomas and knew that he was schizophrenic. Apparently, Officer Ramos had issues with Kelly Thomas, which is why he was so aggressive with him. Kelly Thomas died of blunt force trauma and from a crushed chest due to the beating and to the cops sitting him him. This was according to the medical examiner, who testified in the prelim today. If you saw the pictures that Kelly Thomas' father took of his son in the hospital, you would be stunned at the damage these officers did to this very slight (he weighed maybe 135lbs) man. You saw Officer Ramos......he didn't need to beat this guy within an inch of his life to subdue him. Just look at his face.....he has contempt for everything and has no remorse for what he has done.
In some States it would seem that these officers get away with this sort of thing because of the apathy and even colluding viciousness of those 'citizens' who do not want to see anything wrong with what was done.
Perhaps on the other hand it could be that the grand jury etc are afraid of the officers and may feel that they would be 'targetted' later so simply look the other way in fear. This sort of behaviour by the police in the past was oftentimes against minorities, but they seem to have graduated to just about anyone (except the 1%ers) with a pulse, these days. LOL
Anyway if one should do a poll of the public there is a distinct likelihood that more than enough would be able to tell of an incident that happened to them or a family member or even someone they casually know and it does not seem to matter whether the person is a business owner, employee, unemployed, employed, educated with advanced degree or no degree, have a home or homeless or sane or mentally ill. Seems that all are equal under the boot, batton, bullet, taser... for the opportunity of a beatdowns... LOL
The sad part is when there are people on this 'Vine who chose to overlook the negative and bullying behaviour by these officers and other officers even when the person/victim is killed by the officers. It is not the first time that this sort of viewpoint of 'the cops were only doing their job, or the cop did nothing wrong, or the dead guy/victim started it or was at fault' is found on these message boards when there is a discussion of a death of a victim by cop. They would have people believe that the person/victim who got shot 50 times simply backed into the bullets or the person/victim beat himself to death by using the cops foot to hit himself in the head and stomp himself elsewhere. LOL
It is time that the citizens put pressure on their elected polititians and on the Justice Dept to do a review of the case(s) and the police dept(s) when things like this occur. Unless something is done this sort of vicious, bullying, unconscienionable behaviour simply continues and spread throughout the country everytime officers get away with murder or assault.
Wouldn't it be something if a member of these officers family gets a beating to death by other officers who do not realize that the person is a relative of any police officer? Wonder how they would like it then? Wonder what the officers would do to their fellow officers who did such a thing to a family member of one of their own.
Seem that 'serve and protect' no longer means that anymore... doesn't it?
Wonder how many of these officers are simply using either their gun, a taser or batton because they are not psychologically or physically fit and some are simply tooo overweight to do their job?
Peace......
ag99
on the video you said that the officer said the guy acted like he was on something,isn't that the same thing that george zimmerman said about trayvon when he was on the phone with dispatch? i mean really if your being attached and you can not breath it is only natural that a person is going to try and resist and struggle to breath, its almost like a person in a pool who cant swim he is going to struggle and fight like hell to get to the top of the water to breath and call for help.everybody wants to live and everybody deserves to live their life as they see fit so long as their not breaking any laws or get on the wrong side of an officer .
The new one is he was brandishing a knife =murder if they want to teach kids about bullying better start with the real bullies
99% of cops make the 1% of the good cops look bad. Most of these clowns in blue would be in jail themselves, or frosting donuts somewhere if it weren't for their job as cops.
John Krisfalusci, Larry in CO, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Any normal citizen who has seen the video knows these rampaging egomaniacs loved smashing Kelly "Red" Thomas until he was battered, bruised and dying 8( it's a thrill for these bully's.
I wish Dan but we are talking about California 8( We do not like killing killers we coddle them.
May Justice be served cold to these bastards for what they did.
California cops are just criminals with badges. They act like they are the KGB.
Are they getting pay while they are waiting for trial? Even the wealthy white people fear the police more than the criminals.
I am very surprised the person who took the video has not been arrested, beaten or killed by the thugs.
How do you keep yelling "I can't breathe" if you can't breathe?
denver - How do you not if you want to live?
perfect example of how the high altitude in Denver can cause hypoxia to the brain
Watch. They'll get off as usual.
Four of them already have.
And the repugnant one with demon eyes is only facing 4 years.
"Cicinelli, 42, remains free on $25,000 bail pending a hearing before Superior Court Judge Craig Robison. He faces a potential four-year term in prison if convicted."
They will never see jail time, and you and I are paying for their defense.
Yes Jun Ki you are correct, we are paying for their defense and we will also be paying for the civil suit that is soon to follow. This could cost tax payers in the millions.
and rightly so, they should not even be tried. Cop gives you a lawful order, you comply, whether you like it or not. If not they have the right to take you to the ground and use whatever force is necessary to effect an arrest, you reach for the officers weapon(gun OR tazer) you just royaly f**ked up big time. His dad is so concerned now, where was he when his beloved son was homeless? Why was he homeless and not living with dad? Did he have a drug or alcohol problem? was he schizo and off meds? and to all you that would f**k up a cop if he put his hands on you, STOP LYING, you would comply or get your azz beat, I LOVE computer tough guys, swing on them they piss their pants
Maybe you'll differently if the cops beat the @!$%# out of you for no reason.
You mean like you?
Flyerznut, you obviously did not read the article or you can't retain what you read. He was off his meds, he was NOT on street drugs or alcohol. He may have run away from his families home because of his mental illness. A person who has schizphrenia did not get ill because of bad behavior, their brain is sick and and they can't help it. If the poor man was confused because he had a brain tumor, would you think he got what he had coming? And do you really believe that a refusal to give his name to the cops justifies their administering the death penalty without trial? Schizophrenics are paranoid in the extreme, because what's going on in their brain makes other people appear to be menacing and threatening. They have all kinds of strange fears and they think they need to hide from anything or anyone in "the government". My son was convinced that there was a satellite eye following him whereever he went. He tried for months to run away from it, literally just running all the time. Or hiding under trees to avoid it. I would have taken him in in a second, but he believed if he satyed in one place too long the government would kill him. He too was horribly beaten up by San Diego cops, when he had not done a damm thing. He has been meds compliant for many years now, so he has much less fear, but he still goes into panic mode if approached by police for anything, becuse he knows first hand what they can and will do to him. Just wanted to help you understand this poor young man's mind set, which he couldn't help. Maybe it will give you the gift of compassion if you come to a better understanding. I truly hope, for the sake of your immortal soul, you find it in your heart to be more compassionate to those, the least of your brethren. Just ask yourself, "What would Jesus do?"
Both better pray they are not placed in a prison where they are known if convicted.
Surely they will follow their own advice and "stop resisting" and "relax" while they are being beaten to pulps by 6 thugs, don't you think?
There is no excuse and there is no defense. If these guys are not found guilty and jailed, I wouldn't be surprised that they meet the same fate as Kelly Thomas.
If they do get off, I'm hoping someone takes them out like Bin Laden.
And you are a simple, uneducated fool
At least I'm not a pig.
Read this entire thread, everyone HATES you!
CW cant get over my love for your posts it takes balls to come in a post like this and stand for murder and incompetence so aestoically as you have done; say do you work for our current administration? i can commend you for a job there; you would have my vote.
Man I really respect you; now that said do yourself a favor and stop eating donouts; they are poisoning what ever you have left of humanity.
You would be stupid if you had a brain (that is a compliment buddy)
"It was a conditional threat," Barnett said. "All Kelly Thomas would have had to do was simply comply. ... Officer Ramos had every right to issue that threat."
I'm not someone who goes about flippantly saying someone should be imprisoned or put to death, but this comment shows there is a true and very real disconnect between what a police officer's job is and what they think their job is. They are not saying, "we didn't behave badly." They are saying "we are allowed to behave badly, step off." Second degree murder doesn't bring a death penalty sentence with it, but perhaps for officials who have no oversight into their actions, we should amend the law to make these cases open to capital punishment to deter others from taking on this incorrect attitude.
In addition, all cops should be required to do a 3 month rotation in Europe or Asia, so they can learn what real riots and disorderly conduct looks like. Anyone who can't handle themselves is out.
UofC Student - very well put
Is anyone else as sick as I am of seeing these police shows on t.v. where the police think they are the worlds greatest gift. That since they are a cop the whole world has to heed what they say. I watched on one show the DEA one where these scum bag polce officers took a battering ram to everysingle door in this guys house, yeah that's right inside his house! To doors that don't even have locks on them, and all they found was a half ounce of pot. Unbelievable!!! These are the arrogent a-holes that are supposed to be protecting us. I for one no longer look at a police officer as a good guy. They are just too power hungry and are self absorbed pricks. We need to completely turn our criminal justice system over on it's head and start over, we don't need the 44,000 new laws that take effect every year.
Watched the video again. They're going to beat it, unless someone has a better video.
Someone does..recorded it on cell phone..this video (black & white) is from a security camera.
these loser cops should kill themselves out of pure shame.
i'll load the gun for them.
all cops should hang themselves out of shame oh they have no shame that is why they are cops
QUOTE:
Barnett contended that what is perceived to be a threat by Ramos to Thomas -- "See these fists? They are getting ready to f--- you up" -- was followed by the statement "If you don't do what we tell you."
"It was a conditional threat," Barnett said. "All Kelly Thomas would have had to do was simply comply. ... Officer Ramos had every right to issue that threat."
WHAT???
Is the defense attorney delusional??? Where on earth did he get the idea that any police officer has any right to make any such a threat???
The defense attorney should be disbarred.
I think some believe we are living in a police state, that these azz wipes can do anything to the people that they want. Thought well smelled Pot kick your door in. Thats why these Basturdz don't want us filming them. Thats why it went all the way to the supreme court. I personally think they should not be allowed to make an arrest unless it was viewable on tape. They have lied too much.
I don't want to disparage cops but these two look like candidates for oinker of the year.
I don't think anyone was born being disgusted by cops, but after so many news stories it can become difficult. In fairness, it seems to be the current generation of cops. I'm not sure what the problem is, but here is hoping gen X (and Y) can do a better job.
"Thomas died from injuries and chest compression during the beating that deprived him of oxygen."
I too would die from chest compression if these two sat on my chest.
University of Chicago Student ----
Excellent comment - NO [DECENT PERSON] IS BORN HATING COPS....It is learned and these are the kinds of things that teach us this lesson.
A couple of nutjob cops beat a homeless man to death. That's it. No 'resisting arrest.' No attempted assault on a police officer. Homeless Man Killed By Cops, is the healine. If two guys can't restrain a sick homeless man without killing him, they shouldn't be police officers. Plain and simple. Time for a change in this country. They'll get off and tensions will rise.
These guys will pay for ACTING stupidly. This is the latest police ploy, behaving stupidly as an excuse for killing uncooperative, non-compliant, suspects. The notion that any human can have supehuman strength is stupid and self contradictory. It doesn't justify six grown men standing on your hands and legs while three others sit on your chest while no one goes to get a net or shackles. Detaining someone must be something you can do in a non-lethal way, no matter how strong they are, or you should tag them like an animal and let them run themselves silly futily trying to evade you. They have him down and under enough control to shackle him and get him to a hospital, instead they choose to suffocate him so he can't testify against them in a criminal or civil trial. Their crimes are numerous in this unwarranted killing.
Wow if pictures are worth a thousand words the pictures of these two "cops" are speaking volumes. Ramos looks like a thug wannabe and Cicinelli looks like he just doesn't give a s$$t. They are arrogant, overpowered bullies that took advantage of a homeless man they figured no one cared about. They did what they did because they assumed they could get away with it. Sick bastards hope they get found guilty of all that they are charged with and get a bit of prison justice doled out to them.
These disgusting pigs tried to pin the murder on the paramedics. DISGUSTING MURDERERS.
It's good to know there are still people in America who will convict murderers before the trial.
Mitt Twitt,you are wrong,these are full grown hogs,not pigs.
Your totally correct Denver Bill, but only if your talking about the cops, DA's, and judges who do it everyday. Nobody understands how corrupt and broken the system is until they go through it for themselves.
Send these two Lard Asses to jail and throw away the key! The actually suffocated this man to death!
Along with the other 4 pigs who gladly participated.
What an intelligent looking pair they are.......not! Maybe the fact that one of them was able to post $1,000,000 bail, or part thereof, bears investigating.
Take a good look at these two thugs. To protect and serve? Beat a mentally retarded homeless person to death, what real men they are. I hope they tatt COP on their foreheads before they put them in a hard time maximum security prison. No club feds where they protect theirselves and each other. Put them in with some guys that have been screwed over by cops like these. How long do you say they will last?
If the lawyer for these officers would take the case to the republican supreme court they will be set free. Cops can not be held responsible for what they do on or off the job. This lawyer will tell the jury they can't see how this homeless man threated these officers with deadly force before the video started filming, therefore they were just doing their job. Are these the same officers that beat Rodney King? These guys will be on paid vacation for the next several months waiting acquittal, they have nothing to worry about. Cops cannot be sent to jail its against the law.
I wish I lived in this jurisdiction. Please let them tell a jury of their peers, ""I was justified in beating this homeless man to death because he wouldn't tell me his name." By the way, where does a police officer get 10% of $1 million bail?
chuck - "By the way, where does a police officer get 10% of $1 million bail?"
Ever see Training Day?
I believe as most I am at a loss for words the physical size the protective gear to batter this little guy ah this must be what is called "a snuff" (homicide) film what else is it? Justice? Protecting the public from evil? What was his great sin that he had to be sat upon by six fat pigs? No words can express, I am taken back what needs be said the video and eye witness accounts say it all, murder by police, the little dude already gave up (relented) man what a sight -
Protect and Serve......
Condolances to the family too much to view again I seen and heard enough thank you.....
Aren't all threats conditional?
wingliner123
umm no "I'm going to kick your azz" is not conditional beyond... "if I can catch you" or "unless you can kick mine"
The death is an unarmed homeless people that the suspects perceived him not as human being. Can the District Attroney Office charge them for hate crime?
These pigs deserve the needle. Any pig that murders another man in such a heinous fashion deserves to die, they must be held to the same standard as any citizen. There are many law-abiding police officers in America - but there are many who are simply above the law (I call the rogue, corrupt officers pigs). We MUST start holding the law-breaking pigs accountable. If a police officer-turned-pig goes corrupt, they MUST ANSWER FOR IT the SAME way any citizen would. I have seen so many pigs acquitted of such heinous crimes - and I've seen them continue to walk the streets as police officers. Society can't afford to let this same cycle to continue unanswered.
"...they must be held to the same standard as any citizen."
But they aren't. If this had been three homeless guys that beat a cop to death, they'd be facing "the needle". Involuntary manslaughter in this case. It's no wonder so many people are video recording the police. It's a shame. We should be able to trust them 100%.
Get these scum into prison immediately.
That poor homeless man didn't deserve this.
and not to mention that the other one said "i beat his face in" after it was all done. Manny started the altercation from the beginning. All from a false phone call saying that Thomas was robbing cars i believe. any cop that said, "these fists are going to eff you up" to me just shows he knew exactly what he was going to do. antagonize the poor guy and then have an excuse to beat him. Poor kelly thomas. i hope they go to jail for a long time and lose their jobs and pensions. i mean, the picuters of kelly thomas's face is awful. that is not a picture of just subduing somone. that is the picture of someone severly beaten repeatedly.
Put the low life fat A$$ cops in prison or better yet put them to death, they deserve nothing less.
At least he wasn't black this time because if he was we'd have another riot on our hands with gang bangers and lunatic black people killing and maiming every white person in sight.
white folks riot too .....look up Rosewood...and the New York Draft riots!!
or all the punks at Penn State
I was wondering how long before some idiot will bring race into this.
These two are just the tip of the iceberg. You wouldn't have two individuals like this on the street unless it was sanctioned by their superiors. In addition to managment allowing theese two thugs on the street, the Union wll protect them under any and all circumstances. The interesting thing here is that they are being prosecuted. We've seen a number of cases where Police have shot and killed Latinos because well the cell phone looked like a gun and it was justified homicide for the Police Officer. You would think that with the six figure salaries that police officers in California make that we would get the highest quality individual out there but its just the opposite.