There was a conflict between the nuns views and those of the priests so they took it to the Congregation for the Doctrine of Faith. No different than a fight between the US government and the states. This is the department within the Vatican that corresponds to SCOTUS. The priests did not have the authority and so they took it to the department within the Vatican which did have the authority to rule on who was right. You have to understand this is the same church that said no to Henry the 8th and that rule still stands 500 years later. It does not matter if every radical woman in the church sends petitions. The office has ruled.

Shame, shame, shame.

'The office" is wrong and seems more intent on doing the devil's work than God's work.

Time to turn the Catholic church over to the nuns to run.

Either be a Catholic and follow the Catholic beliefs, or leave and follow whatever it is you believe.

It is fundamental in Catholic doctrine that the Pope is an infallible teacher. If you believe this, then follow him. If not, then leave. But telling the church what they need to believe by some kind of majority census is silly.

Why is it silly if the church is wrong? The pope is NOT infallible, he's a human. It's time for him and the church to leave the dark ages. Some hold tighter and tighter even to things that are wrong. The church is one of them. Nuns give up their lives for this religion. It's about time they have some say and some power. And priests? Well, you know what they've been up to. Don't be scared of change for the better.

j70141 - Exactly what I did many years ago. Of course, some say that if you don't follow the right bible as written, you're not a christian (how many can call Romney a non-christian). If you asked everyone who doesn't follow the entire bible to stop being a christian, you wouldn't have very many left, though. Guess that's how mega-churches got to be so large. Lots of hierarchical churches (Catholic, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Methodist, etc.) losing lots of people because they just can't buy into the dogma.

There is a more liberal Church hierarchy. Earlier this week, George Neumayr condemned Archbishop Wuerl for not denying HHS Secretary Sebelius communion. This more liberal hierarchy needs to make its presence known.

And, J70141 in Colorado, can you quote just what the Pope said on this? This hasn't seem to have reached his pay grade yet.

The Bishops have decided to throw up a smoke screen to draw attention away from their hideous sins of pedophilia. It's usually referred to as a red herring. The Roman Catholic church is an organized hot bed of sanctimonious hypocrites.

Another Reminder - RELIGION IS ABOUT MAN AND HIS IDEAS.

It's a shame GOD didnt have enough foresight to spend more time in the bible talking about women being sinners, abortion being the greatest evil - next to Homosexuality, the mother of all evils.

You'd almost have to believe he's not the all powerful, all knowing being they proclaim him to be?

Clearly, the Church is taking Christianity where GOD and JESUS had no desire to go.

Pretty logical.

Spend less time focusing on what Jesus was teaching - Love, Patience, Kindess, taking care of each other, ect...

Spend all the time focusing on EVIL GAYS, EVIL WOMEN, AND EVIL BABY KILLERS!

ignore the pedophiles, murderers, child rapists and killers...kidnappers, thieves and adulterers...those are small fish to fry.

have I about summed up the idiocracy of religion? of course i have.

A very core principle of the Christian faith is the supremacy of acts over words. This is a situation where nuns generally serve and demonstrate their faith through their acts --- as teachers, nurses, social workers, administrators, etc. Christ had a hard time convincing His Apostles that words were empty vessels, but acts were what they would be judged upon.

But as soon as Christ was out of the picture Paulists started denegrating women and creating a male-only pseudo-celibate club of leadership of Christianity.

I sincerely doubt that Christ would be welcome in any Catholic or fundamentalist or evangelical church in this country. He would be perceived as too far left, too forgiving of people, too concerned with social issues and simply out-of-step with "conservative thinking." And if Christ were to say, "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." He would immediately be beaned by a Cardinal.

Ralph the species is in more danger from the degradtion of the environment due to ovrecrowding. SOrrry, Babe ..... it's just the way it is.

So the church hierarchy put the defender of sexual abusing priests, the defender the collection plate and puts him in charge of controlling the "girls gone wild"? WELCOME HOME CATHOLICS!

I love that reasoning - either follow the words of the Pope or leave the Church, as he cannot be questioned. He is a man, not a god. The Pope can be fallible and this has been seen through the ages, as in the Church's insistence that the earth was the center of the universe, despite Gallileo's discoveries. I have little faith in a bunch of old men, perhaps some pedophiles or guilty of sheltering pedophiles, sheltered from the world, being able to create doctrine that cannot be questioned.

Meanwhile, you have nuns that are living the word of God, in their communities, working to help the downtrodden. Sadly, they display some independence in thinking, and are punished as a result. No wonder the Catholic church is diminishing in importance.

You don't want people distracted by social justice issues?

The Hell with any Pope - I could not care less for some Pope with his own country...the Vatican...get his lame butt out of America I owe nothing to any Pope or his church they are nothing to me nothing more than a super rich cult - geez get out of my life!!!!

I am not Catholic, in the sense that I walked out on them, so this cult along with all the other relegulous cults can go to hell start taxing all of these so-called churches, why do they take in hundreds of millions even Billions and not pay one cent in taxes? Just because they have not in the past does not dictate that they can meddle in significant ways in national politics and make me subject to their dogma and still not pay their taxes...no more, enough.

I want separation of church and state just as it says in the constitution and if they wish to go further dictate civil rights according to their church then get your holy butts out on the streets and march, gather to petition the government in other words pour untold millions of tax free dollars to make their cult dogma the law of the land which is to turn America into some Theocracy. Accomplished through joining forces with the Fascist capitalist just as in WW2, the unholy alliance, and expect to pay no taxes that is absurd.

Then lets stop the charade they are political players pouring tax free dollars with no record track the money to candidates that push their cult dogma on free Americans - No More Tax Free Status - these giant edifices they build with tax free dollars and for what end? No money for the poor but plenty tax free dollars for giant buildings ornate regalia a fleet of private planes hahaha what a show.

More grand larceny on a national scale more special entitlements just as the Romney's and Trumps and their ilk are entitled to pay 17% while I and my fellow Americans entitled to pay 35% so too the cults have their special entitlements to pay zero in taxes yet they are filthy rich. More entitlements for the 1% it never ends they don't want to pay their fair share and now a Mormon to push the relegulous capitalist money interests perfect bed-partners.

Low rent filthy scum rats as these debtor states "poor as dirt" bible belt leaches forever take in more in government services in dollars terms than they have ever paid and will ever pay into the Treasury they are perpetual nanny states parasites dependent on the blue states to even survive how more surreal can this become?

These beggar states block national legislation and push to take essential services from government and turn these services over to private hands and just tell the gullible American citizen we are reducing the size of government, already at an all time modern low number, and all will be fine as the cronies of the empty suits in congress will be able to deliver to you the benefits of government at such a low cost your life will be almost free from government and in the beneficent hands of private citizens...oh yes.

“There’s so much riding on the gay marriage battle, and on abortion rights, and on contraception that [bishops] want everybody in the church to be doubling down on those issues and not being distracted by social justice,” Gibson told msnbc.com.

There is a lot riding on those issues. The bishops recognize that if nuns and parishioners start to think about these issues for themselves, pretty soon their ability to control others with guilt will go up in smoke. Can't have that, can we?

It is fundamental in Catholic doctrine that the Pope is an infallible teacher. If you believe this, then follow him. If not, then leave. But telling the church what they need to believe by some kind of majority census is silly.

That "fundamental belief" didn't come about until almost 1870, when then Pope Pius got into an argument with some other reformers, declaring, "I AM the Church, and the Church is infallible, therefore I am infallible!" Fundamental "belief" based on some Pope's EGO, which is why THIS Catholic rejects the concept of "papal infallibility."

Cardinal Bernie Law. A man who would be residing at Massachusetts Correctional Institute Cedar Junction if he hadn't fled the country under the protection of the Vatican. If this is the person who is the Church's moral guardian then it has gone back to the days of the Borges.

Yup, the Catholic Church is just as nuts as the Muslims. Oh, not to forget, also extremely useless.

the catholic church has no credibility.they rape young boys and now they bad mouth nuns.the devil is in charge,get use to it

Hmmmmmmm somebody once said the greatest of these is love. I remember reading something in the bible about religious people and hypocrites being told off by Jesus...............seems like those with weak ego's insist on "being right" and are terrified of any new ideas. Radical feminism is ONLY about equal rights and fair treatment of women...................yep we sure wouldn't want the church to get all wrapped up in that horrible notion............................grin

This is all part of trying to reign the Catholic parishioners in. They figure if they can cow the nuns, then everyone else will fall in line and follow the Priests. Well I would not trust a priest with my male hamster let alone a child (especially a boy)!!

And before the followers get crazy, my parents were Catholic, I was baptized and went to Catholic schools. So I know what I am talking about. I used to wonder why my brothers balked at altar boy duties.

?

I would think the nuns would want to distance themselves from the vatican. The men are giving the women a bad name and reputation by sheer association.

We can live without the Church telling us how to believe, live, and vote if we are not Catholic and disagree with the Church? Great! Tell that to the Church.

I attended 14 years of Catholic school and the nuns were strong women who cared about people. It wasn't until they became too strong that the bishop came down on them back in 1970. I left the church 10 years later and have never looked back. The church has gone from compasionate, caring, and socially liberal, to a church run by pedophiles who want to tell women what to do with their bodies. Let's face it. The Catholic church has no respect for women. Shame on the Catholic Church. It is no wonder they are losing followers every day. The church is as morally corrupt as Wall Street and big business. They care more about controlling their followers and getting money than they do for the poor, sick, down-trodden and all of those people that Jesus loved and wanted to help. I believe Jesus would thrown most Catholic hierarchy out of the church, if he were here today.

The primary focus of the Vatican is power, so politics plays a large part in their strategy no matter how they like to pretend otherwise. Priests are on a mission these days, and since they believe women to be less in the eyes of god, they're quite comfortable dictating what should be said/not said. Pigs.

I see some of you have opened your eyes and see the Catholic Church for what it is.. a Mens club.. They are the ones that have rewritten the bible so many times it is unrecognizable. They have left out important information about women. They are the reason women have to fight for their rights as human beings. I do not believe in the bible for this very reason. Even today there are various scrolls that are being found and immediately taken from public view and into the catacombs of the Vatican never to see the light of day again. Why? Because they do not want the truth to come out. They want women to be nothing more than slaves to men and baby ovens. In recent years we have found out that they have protected and moved pedophiles around to keep their dark secrets because it was men messing with boys. If that had been the Nuns you can bet your bottom dollar immediate dismissal of the Nun would have been the punishment. Get this Catholics.. your religion is a joke. Your leader is joke. And the bible they base their Ideals on is a joke.

Being educated by the nuns for eight of my twelve years in parochial schools, it was and still is my objective opinion that they were the true faces of Catholicism for baby boomers. Some of my peers may have seen the wrong side of a paddle held by a nun which could affect their memories of nuns.

Luckily, I loved learning and proved to be putty in their capable hands as they laid my foundation for future advanced education. Imagine how millions of us and later generations probably have had the same positive nurturing education provided by a series of nuns. Which should prove that they are at the front lines of Catholicism around the globe. LCWR Rocks!

It would seem that Pope Benedict and his close advisers could, should? receive feedback about real life confronted by these dedicated public servants. Yes, teachers in all schools are serving the public and are at the cutting edge of Main St. of any nation. Hmm..Pope Ben is the same Cardinal Ratzinger that was placed in charge of the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith which investigated and then permanently covered up church misconduct related to sexual abuse charges. Would he risk place LCWR's case at same place for same easy and out.??

You beat me to the Borgia comparison, Rev, and were right on.

A lot of good points here-but I had to grin at George421202's comment about the wrong side of a paddle! LOL!

The nuns I've known from my own education, and the nuns I know and work with now at my daughter's elementary school are hardworking, dedicated, loving individuals whose ranks are becoming alarmingly thin because the average age of nuns in this country is 70-something. It's very sad really, but any well-educated, bright young woman committed to living their faith through their work these days is not looking to get into a vocation where her gender is an immediate demerit as far as her "superiors" at the Vatican are concerned.

Seriously, how can they possibly take ANTHING Cardinal Bernard Law says about anyone seriously??? It rocked the faith of many Catholics in the U.S. when he was granted flight from justice and protected by the Vatican. Personally, I think it's shameful.

Matthew 7:16 By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them.

That's the thing I guess a lot of people don't get. They CHOOSE to become nuns and serve the Catholic Church- not the other way around. The nuns do not have a choice to make rules as they go along- and not the priest either. If they can't abide by the Church's teachings then they are allowed to remove themselves from that order.... as well as that religion if they feel suppressed. Plenty of other religions out there that will welcome them and still be able to serve in a humanitarian way.

Their choice.. follow the doctrine or leave it- it's not up to them to change the doctrine.. nor is it anyone outside of the Church to force it to abandon the teachings either. This is really between the Nuns and the Church... we really have no say in what the Church teaches and the nuns know they can leave.

foolish for belonging

I believe that is the strongest point of Catholic issues these days. The Vatican and American Bishops are continuing to push people away from the Catholic faith. With bad politics of strong-arming nuns just to reinstate some lost power that was lost only because of their own blatant foolishness. So now it's 57,000 nuns and falling. Not too mention how citizens of The United States and the World are disgusted with the Church and their bad policies.

agreed. it is amazing anybody anywhere would want to be associated with these ass-@!$%#ers in dresses.

interested in how the nuns were required by the vatican to take the vows of poverty. chastity and the big one--- obedience? look up st bridgette of ireland. she founded a order of nuns who fed the hungry administered to the sick and were generally loved by the people they served. the priests noticed that the people loved the nuns and tolerated the priests so they complained to the vatican. the vatican in response sought to reign in the nuns power and make them obedient to the priests. hence the vow of obedience. the catholic church is a mysogynistic cult from the pope to all his priests. i was raised a catholic from elementary school thru high school and i witnessed the priests ordering the nuns around showing them little respect. it was my first introduction to the passive obedient behavior required to be a good little catholic girl. the priests would address the student body (girls school) and tell us things like wearing cashmere sweaters made us an ''occasion of sin'' for the boys and if we caused them ''impure thought'' they committed a mortal sin and we were going to hell. i left the catholic church as soon as i graduated and have never returned. with few exceptions i have no respect for priests. i think the priests fall into two categories----- misguided religious zealots or perverts.

I guess I read the situation incorrectly.

I understood it as this:

The nuns were focusing on the things Jesus focused on - love, patience, kindess, taking care of each other, ect.

The Church wanted them to focus on things jesus didnt focus on - abortion, gays and womens rights.

It's not that the nuns were taking christianity in a direction it was never going, it's that they didnt bother focusing on things Jesus and God spent so little time focusing on.

GOD is all powerful and all knowing, if he was concerned about gays and abortion, he should have spent a little more time in the bible talking about it. Surely he could have seen where the future was heading, so as to speak to it...right?

GOD did spend a lot of time talking about murderers, rapists, thieves...

And our world is rife with these sinners.

Why isnt THAT the focus of the church?

True, many nuns could do as I have - concluded RELIGION IS A FARCE, and simply never been a part of it.

But I presume, they believe in GOD and they understand, religion isnt GOD's doing, it's man's doing...

as such, it has the right to be tampered with...to the point of getting BACK ON JESUS' MESSAGE.

anyone who disagree's with that right of the nuns, doesnt believe in GOD, they believe in the POPE AND THE CHURCH.

See you in hell, where us gays are ending up...along with you blasphemers. You cant put the church above GOD, and yet...here many of you are trying to do just that.

@MKC-TN,

You are confusing dogma and doctrine. Dogma is the basic beliefs of the Church --- they are unchangeable and a requirement of belief. This is completely expressed, for all Christian Churches, in the Nicene Creed or a re-wording that did not change any meanings. Doctrine is the teachings of the Church that are changeable and reflect the current thinking. Abortion for example is not dogma, it is doctrine and was only enacted as such in the 15th century. The celibacy of priests and nuns is also doctrine, not dogma. Many branches of Catholicism, for example, do not require that priests not marry or not be engaged in connubial bliss.

The rule is --- dogma cannot be changed. Doctrine changes daily. If doctrine was not changeable, you have to remember that the Church sided with Hitler during WWII and supported slavery, especially in Brazil and the Caribbean, and opposed Women's Suffrage in the past. But these things change with time.

Don't you find it at all strange that the Church hierarchy is trying to re-assert itself and its "conservative values" at a time when it is desparate to distract attention from the current round of sex scandals, all of which involve coverups by Church leadership?

granny22, you said

the priests would address the student body (girls school) and tell us things like wearing cashmere sweaters made us an ''occasion of sin'' for the boys and if we caused them ''impure thought'' they committed a mortal sin and we were going to hell.

and that reminded me of so many things we girls were told by the nuns, like not to wear patent leather shoes because the boys might be able to see our underware under our skirts from the reflection on those kids of shoes. All of it was to condition us girls and inform the boys that anything "unpure" was a girls fault by any means possible if a boy sinned. It was never the boy's fault ... just like the brainwashing in genesis, Adam didnt have the balls to take responsibility for his own actions ... so it was Eve's fault.

ANYWAYS, that comment also reminded me of something even much more recent ... apparently some defendants want all women in the court they are being tried in for the 9/11 attack to "dress modestly" so as not to be responsible for the defendants impure thoughts and sins thereof. We all know what the response was to that ... and it should be the same response to the RCC taliban in the Vatican.

There isnt much difference between the RCC and Islam when it comes to women's place at the bottom of the totem pole in that heirarchy and how women are used as the scapegoats for the spineless men's sins.

Apparently priest/clergy molesting children, raping women FOR MILENIA is not a punishable offense and is in need of being "covered up", yet women tending to the teachings and works of Christ's example is an irresponsible act of these nuns at a time the church is having unfounded and distorted wet dreams and illusions of granduer from memories of a time in the church that pasted over 600 yrs ago - control of the world through religious influence upon the vaatious world governments' sovereignty.

DING, DING, DING .... they have now given irrefutable proof of their disqualification from "tax-emmpt" status. They are demanding their nuns go political on their behalf instead of following the examples of Christ and the declared missions of their religious orders.

Taxing the RCC in the USA alone should help diminish our national debt in no time at all ... they are now a political pac.

Jessica1170252

"See you in hell, where us gays are ending up...along with you blasphemers. You cant put the church above GOD, and yet...here many of you are trying to do just that."

I hope you don't really believe you are going to hell. You sound like, despite your anger and frustration, you believe in God, just not in "religion". And you are right, religion is made up by man but God is about a personal relationship. I may be wrong but it sounds like you have that personal relationship with God. I don't care - gay, straight or too busy to be either - God wants everyone to go to heaven and loves us all. At least the God that I know does.

Amen! Did you ever wonder, before the gay popes changed the rules and forbade priests to marry, when popes said it was good for priests to get married, are they damned to hell for getting married by their church, which later changed the rules and said priests could not marry? Who is in hell, married priests or the gay pedophile priests? Or maybe its all just a sham to keep the ignorant believers donating to the collection plates and none of it matters anyway?

In the end, it is a lie. Jesus would leave the church and go help the nuns. Frankly, I believe the nuns are more in harmony with Christ's teachings than any pope.

Recycled Hope:

YOU WROTE: "Taxing the RCC in the USA alone should help diminish our national debt in no time at all ... they are now a political pac."

MY RESPONSE: The Catholic Church in America already saves the taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars EACH YEAR, which is just like PAYING TAXES.

According to The National Catholic Educational Association, the total Catholic school enrollment (grades 1 through 12) for the last academic year (2010-2011) was 2,065,872. Those students attended 6,980 Catholic schools.

Now consider the cost of a public school education, which averages somewhere between $8,600 to $27,000 per student (depending on whose statistics you accept). For our purposes here, let’s just use a low average of $10,000 to educate each public school student.

That being said, according to my calculations Catholic schools are saving taxpayers more than 20 BILLION DOLLARS each year (2,065,872 Catholic students times $10,000, which would be the cost to educate those students in public schools). And that amount doesn’t even include the cost of building 6,980 additional public schools and financing the associated infrastructure necessary to educate those Catholic children if they all suddenly transferred into the public school system.

And what about all the money saved by taxpayers because of religiously-run social services, such as soup kitchens, homeless shelters, pregnancy aid centers, free counseling, financial assistance, etc.? I’m betting the savings to taxpayers are astronomical. And what about the contributions of Catholic Charities (one of the largest charitable organization in the entire world)? Do you also want to tax that charity?

So don’t give me that malarkey that churches (and their associated parochial schools) shouldn’t be tax exempt when they’re already saving the taxpayers billions of dollars EVERY YEAR. Aren’t those savings to taxpayers just like paying taxes? Do you air the same complaints about General Electric, which doesn’t pay a single cent in taxes despite earning billions in profits? Maybe General Electric gets away with tax evasion because their CEO, Jeffrey Immelt, is President Obama’s buddy/confidant.

And what about the 47% of Americans who pay no taxes at all, yet receive government benefits in one form or another? Shouldn’t they be required to pay at least a minimal tax for the benefits/services they get? Why aren’t you complaining about their “free ride”?

Just for the record, I’m not Catholic and I’m not a member of any organized religion. Instead, I’m a Deist who's not a fan of all the dogmas, ceremonies, and regulations of organized religions. Nevertheless, I’m still an admirer of a nearby Catholic church because I’ve noticed the good works that it sponsors – boy scout and girl scout troops, clothing drives (which I’ve benefitted from, even though I’m an “outsider”), a food pantry, a homeless shelter, and a Good Samaritan group which does volunteer labor for the needy. That group even travels to disaster areas, such as the Gulf Coast, to help the desperately needy after disastrous hurricanes. And they do that at their own expense without regard for the religious affiliation of those who benefit. I've received their assistance without ever being asked about my religious beliefs.

There are many good men and women in the Catholic CHurch. Personallly, I think a religion that needs as many rules as the Roman Caatholic's have is counterproductive to a goood spiritual life. That's why I stopped being involved some 40 years ago. I enjoy the way rastafarians work out spiritual issues - they reason with one another.

Rhonda, those parents also pay into the public sector. Do you know how much it costs to send ONE child to Catholic school. let alone SEVEN like my parents did. It is NOT Cheap!!

I put my two oldest in Catholic School for a couple of years, but I could not sustain the cost and my children did not like the priests, they loved the Nuns, the priests gave them the creeps.

recycled hope----the astonishing fact is that women still join the nunnery. some years after high school i was contacted by a few classmates who were attempting to raise funds for the retired nuns of the Blessed Virgin Mary order. they told of the disgraceful condition of the retirement home in mundelein illinois. they claimed the nuns were living in poverty with sub-standard health care. once they were of no use to the church working for some 50 years as unpaid teachers they were cast aside. and still the young women join-astonishing!

let us look at this fairly on both sides . In the original inception of the church , women were priests and Bishops , and were highly involved in the creation of the church . We have found graves in the catacombs that give the titles and positions of many powerful women . It was only in the later centuries that women lost their status in the church . It is important to note that priests could marry as well . As the years went by , women dropped lower in their position and priests were forbidden to marry . One reason for this is that a married priest would tend to support his local parish more stringently if he is a married member of the local community . With no relationships in the local community he is less likely to rebel .

The Catholic church has never been stupid enough to support the downtrodden at the expense of the rich and powerful . Preserving the status quo has always been their watchword. One of the lessons that Jesus taught us was that the powerful in the temple were not always right . Let's face it, if Jesus was here today he would probably be turning his back on the hierarchy that is as corrupt as the one who sent him to Calvary in the first place . It is not enough that these nuns have surrendered the enrichment of a normal life , that they spend their lives in service to the church and the poor . Now , the Vatican insists that they expound on dogma dealing with the experiences that they will never have .

Why does everybody always declare war on something? All they want is for women to get back in the kitchen and be seen and not heard. Is that so much to ask?

The Catholic church could care less about American politics. The Catholic church does not take votes on matters of doctrine. This is not a church that follows society. 500 years ago they ruled on divorce the entire English church left and people died over that decision. That decision still stands today as it did then. They do not care if women work, they do not care if women vote, they do not care what American women or men for that matter think. We are not a demoracy. We do not want to be a democracy. I do not believe in relative morality. I would rather be a member of a church that stands for something than of one that swings with the whims of society. Those churches you are welcome to.

I would rather be a member of a church that stands for something than of one that swings with the whims of society.

So you would rather belong to a morally corrupt church than one that actually follows the spirit of the Bible and Jesus? Because right now the RCC is a power hungry, ego driven, greedy lot of misogynists who care nothing about God.

lonereb - "The Catholic church could care less about American politics."

Then why is one of the things they're punishing the nuns for support of "Obamacare"?

If they're getting their hands slapped for "failing to promote conservative principles", that's political.

Walks like a duck, squawks like a duck, must be the Pope.

The nuns answer to God....not to men. If they believe God wants them to focus on the poor and needy, then that’s what they should focus on. The nuns should branch off and start their own religion, and take the money they've raised with them. The aggressive attitudes of the men in charge of the Catholic Church are what caused me to find another religion. Their "principles" and teachings do not feel like what God would want. The more power they have, the more they bully those that follow them.

They are certainly acting political, and now ordering the nuns to act political. Time to end their tax exempt status.

Nothing like a whole bunch of people enabling women to break the vows they chose to take.

Enablers Anonymous !

lonerb

I would rather be a member of a church that stands for something than of one that swings with the whims of society.

Riiiiiight, with a former nazi as a pope...what are they standing for exactly?

oh but im sure he's repentent about not doing what was right, just and holy and instead "just followed the nazi regimes orders...what else could he do?"

Adultery, Murder, Rape, Child Molestation, Stealing, Greed, Gluttony...

The SILENCE IS DEAFENING.

I am still waiting for the church to run campaigns in America to get Divorce banned and to force Adulterers to wear Scarlet letter A's...and we can just stone to death the rapists, murderers and child molestors.

The Theives, lets just cut their hands off...

Greed, well...lets leave that alone - GREED IS GOOD! Ignore that verse in the bible about rich people not getting into heaven.

Gluttony - fat america is just screwed, thats a losing battle if there ever was one.

They want women to accept that they are responsible for a human life and a special role given by God. Church's war on women. How about women's war on God. It's far from all, but many women seem to want to be absolved of the responsibility of creating and raising a child. Then there is indignance when we say there is something wrong. If peoplel thought about the intent, purity, and selflesness of their actions, it woulbe be less of a problem.

Also, I mentions of people finding churches that work for them, which defeats the whole purpose. By all means, if you feel it's right, change churches. Just do it because it will help you better follow God.

lonereb

you stated:

The Catholic church could care less about American politics. The Catholic church does not take votes on matters of doctrine. This is not a church that follows society. 500 years ago they ruled on divorce the entire English church left and people died over that decision. That decision still stands today as it did then.

Bull. They changed that in 1977, the year my godmother was finally able to marry her fiance, AFTER WAITING ALMOST 2 DECADES while her intended attempted to obtain an annullment from his first wife who he was only married to for 4 yrs and who he never had children with while they were married.

My Godmother is a devout Italian-American Roman Catholic currently in her 90s who raised by strict Italians who immigrated here from Sicily. Her father ruled with an iron italian-catholic fist over 4 daughters, shunning the youngest for years because she married a devout Irish Catholic man and went on to have 12 kids with him. My Godmother was denied having children while waiting for 2 decades (her fertile time) hoping and waiting upon the granting of an annulment for a marriage that hadnt existed for 2 1/2 decades. Another of her sisters waited until menopause to marry her lifetime sweetheart since he didnt want kids and she was forbidden from using birth control. And the her other sister married a "nice, Catholic, Italian-blooded" man and had 4 kids and a marriage where she was his slave.

The church has allowed remarriage within the church after divoce without an annulment since 1977. Boy, you are behind in RCC doctrines by almost 4 decades. Turns out when they reversed that decision, it was only for American Catholics to adhere to since Americans were divorcing and they didnt have the "influence" in America like they did elsewhere in the world.

Apparently this nazi Pope who stole the papacy from the rightfully deserving ArchBishop in line thinks SS tactics can work in America. They may not still be helping the nazis today, but they still kept most of the stolen treasures from the jews during that holicaust and only now, in the 21st century are the decendants of those jews able to reclaim some of them. In addition, they defile Christ name since they have become money-changers like the Pharasees Jesus threw out of the temple, and for the Russian Mafia money launderers.

I was raised Catholic, I am Christian and I believe in NO man-made religion. I survied Catholicism, Catholicism as taught in the 1960s,1070s and with all the rearranging of doctrines through a roughly fought Vatican II which, as I am concerned, whored the RCC.

Tax-exempt status? You mean after they own most of the gold in the world, have some of the best properties in the world, making their followers contribute for two thousand years, acting more like a mafia than THE Mafia, you mean on top of all that, we dont make them pay taxes???

How do we end this crap?

why do you care and how does it affect you?

why do you NOT care Sam, and how does it NOT affect you that they dont pay into our community (the USA), yet with hand streched out, take good ole US monies OUT of this country, leaving the citizen's, both Catholic and non-Catholic to pick up the slack in the tax revenues necessary to maintain this country.

If they are merely collecting "for the poor and down-trodden" accross the globe, it would be one thing ... but they collect monies globally from even the poorest of the poor to maintain their own country and then interfer with the politics and legislation of the countries they feel they have emminet domain over because they are a religion.

Yes, they have given "to the poor" all over thye globe to increase their folds with one hand while the other hand is wide open for "donations" to keep their "hierarchy" in precious silks and satins as they adore their precious artistic masterpieces. They also interject into too many nation's sovereignty and have caused much agony in the lives of both their followers as well as their non-followers. Let's not forget their works to get reid of condoms in Africa, the hot bed of aids, leaving "faithful" wives at the mercy of their "husbands" (who have multiple wives) and who think by raping a virgin, they can cure themselves of aids (which is why nuns are now their rape targets).

The RCC is not just a religious institution, but a political PAC infesting countries worldwide while expecting the world to support their own very private, and militarily secured nation.

So Sam, why do you NOT care????

Rhonda Lucky – You made some interesting points and not completely unfounded, yet I can see a dilemma here.

For one, eliminating Catholic school would not cost tax payers anymore money, because 99% of these children would just be placed in some other form of private school and not lower themselves to enroll in a public school with all the other riff raff.

Two, those same qualities you admire the most from your local church, such as clothing drives and feeding the poor, are the same actions being condemned by the Vatican secondary in importance. In other words, expect the effort put forth for a clothing drive to be reassigned to other, more approved of actions like a celibacy workshop. In fact, it is these very same cherished humanitarian efforts that are being attacked.

Third, your claim that General Electric was paying taxes prior to Obama being in office is complete bunk; and we both know it. GE has enjoyed this privilege for many, many years now, with approval of both parties….HINT: It’s call lobbying.

Finally, 47% of Americans not paying taxes is also a complete lie, unless you are only talking about income tax, which is mainly due to the stagnation of wages versus the cost of living that has move the majority of the US below the poverty level. Also, within the 47% is Mitt Rodney, along with many other wealthy people who while earning hundreds of thousands still owned no income tax, so no income tax is not solely a poor man thing. Additionally, in most states, only unwed mothers and their children are given any government assistance, while 99% of all men who don’t pay taxes do NOT get any government assistance of any kind, poor or not. Meanwhile, when you include the multitude of other taxes, besides income, nobody lives tax free.

If one chooses to be Catholic then one must accept the rule of the church in matters of faith and morals. If one refuses the top down rules of the church then there are other churches. One cannot say I'm Catholic but only if the church does it my way.

Yeah but one someone keeps changing direction on them it's like working for Romney.

one must accept the rule of the church in matters of faith and morals.

Morals? You must mean IMMORALS.

@Wakehead, the women are free to join these other faiths...break their original vows and take new ones in another church (perhaps Episcopalian), or just exit and join any number of secular activities.

@lonereb,

That is not a very accurate view of the Church. The only "rules" on accepts are those statements cotained in the Nicene Creed. It is only these principles that are considered ex cathedra only when the Pope is speaking about the statements in the creed as they are applied to morals and ethics directly and he is operating in his official capacity as a Pastor. So if the Pope says something that deals with the Three-In-One Nature of the Godhead, then he is infallible. If the Pope says that priests cannot marry, he in not infallible and people are pretty much able to choose. This is because there is a spiritual heirarchy that says that the order of priority is 1) dogma, 2) conscience, and 3) doctrine 4) administrative necessity. Requiring celibacy of priests is a good example in that any Catholic can choose to completely ignore it or join any number of fully-Cathloic denominations that to not push celibacy. This is because it is not addressed at all by dogma, can be determined by the individuals conscience in most cases, and is not even doctrine. Celibacy is considered by the Church as a condition of employment unless otherwise permitted.

Another good example is birth control. About 2% more Catholic women believe that birth control is okay than do the general population. And that is perfectly legitimate in that conscience trumps doctrine. Virtually all Catholics have some issue on which they do not agree with the doctrine of the Church from divorce to birth control to the role of women in society. And they do exactly that --- pick which things they believe and which they do not. Most of the Church leadership refers to the vast majority of American Catholics as "cafeteria Catholics" for that very reason.

There is no necessity of nuns to break their vows in order to reject instructions to be more vocal in their support of "conservative" issues than there is a necessity for you to buy everything suggested by the junk mail that the postmen bring. Conscience trumps both doctrine and administrative necessity in this case.

If one chooses to be catholic, I hope they are catholic like Sister Mary MacKillop. She was excommunicated for turning in a pedophile priest. Then on his death bed the man who excommunicated her took it back. Now, she is Austrailia's first saint.

Be good. Be like Sister Mary MacKillop.

Sex has been around for a lot longer than the church.

except for the priest that have secretly married women.

Lee your comment like most others is truely off the topic. If you want to be a member of the Catholic church then you must accept the rules of the Catholic church. If you do not want to accept the rules of the Catholic church than it is not the church for you and there are others. Being a women or a man has nothing to do with it. All religious orders must follow the rules of the church whether they be priests, brothers or nuns. All laity follows the same rules of the church. If they don't this is not the church for them.

lonereb - I agree. Maybe it's time for some of these nuns to move to other faiths.

lonereb, I agree. Maybe it's time for everyone who isn't into raping little boys to leave the catholic excuse for a church.

Cannot believe the Vatican and Catholic priests are upset at nuns for not speaking out against gay marriage, yet hide and cover up gay actions of priests.....

Come to think of it, does anyone but I think it strange a church would mandate that all priests and nuns abstain from a partnership or sexual relationship with the opposite sex for life when it is a god given natural animal instinct..........Another Taliban like cult locked in the stone ages I guess

If they stop doing charitable work they should have their tax exempt status revoked. The catholic church is a filthy group of pedophiles, liars and murderers for centuries.

I'm sure once the nuns have finally had enough - they will all make Great Wiccans!

I wonder if this indeed is strictly a diversionary tactic to take attention away from all the (priest-related) sex scandals of the recent and not-so-recent years and the lengths to which the perpetrators were protected.

Better for the Church to officially rebuke the sisterhood for its public face than the male hierarchy for its private, ugly one?

That's pretty much all he ever says.

No it isn't, because EVERYONE KNOWS GREEDO SHOT FIRST. George Lucas is as stupid as the pope.

Also, Kirk/Picard is a stone cold tie. Both are total badasses. Nothing to argue about there.

Kirk, duh.

The only question I ever thought was hard

Do I like Kirk or do I like Picard?

Sorry. Both pale compared to "The Emmisary", Captain Benjamin Sisko, commander of Deep Space Nine.

Han shot first, then they edited it.

For the nuns it is not a "career" but a vocation. The thing that bothers me, is that the nuns are doing the work of Jesus, and the Church is not. Jesus would not be a Republican, he was a liberal. Look at the people he surrounded himself with: all the sinners. He asked for people to find a better way, help one another and love one another. I don't see a lot of that going on today. But the nuns are doing just that.

Sharon, I wonder if the Nuns truly knew what they were getting when they became Nuns. Does any young, dewy-eyed bride truly know what she's agreeing to when she gets married???

I think many of them felt a genuine calling to to the vocation, not realizing all the politics, etc. that would play a chief role in her new life.

Personally, I think if there must be a Catholic Church, then these women should revolt and take it over. Maybe, then, it would become truly Christian.

After Jesus and the Disciples fed the five thousand with loaves and fishes, they did NOT pass around a collection plate.

Jesus NEVER told anyone who they could, or could not, sleep with.

I think if Jesus were alive today, he would not belong to the Catholic Church.

Jesus was a conservative on morals and a liberal on social issues.

The nuns are only focused on the liberal part. They should continue that focus. It is laudable and what Jesus preached. However to REALLY be like Jesus in every way they should ALSO FOCUS on the moral aspects of life such as protection for the unborn and sexual morality as taught by Jesus. They are just out of balance at present.

If the nuns REFUSE TO WORK protect the unborn and promote sexual morality that's a problem. In fact, it might be heretical and it would certainly be disobedience. We shall see what they decide to do. Then we will know where they really stand.

However to REALLY be like Jesus in every way they should ALSO FOCUS on the moral aspects of life such as protection for the unborn and sexual morality as taught by Jesus.

Such moral aspects as living a celibate life, living his teachings, and not judging?

Many do not want to admit this, but there were several ways of terminating a pregnancy during Jesus' time. Despite this, he did not preach to these practices specifically. He was busy defending those such as women being judged by others, and sects such as the samaritans, who were seen as heretics.

By the way, when a woman was made pregnant for her adulterous actions, and the proper response was death by stoning, exactly how did the unborn baby survive? Most of the New Testament illustrates that Jesus did expect a high moral standard, both in individual conduct, but also in generousity to others'. He was only violently rebuking to those who defiled his church by putting profit before helping others, and to those who were unwilling to sacrifice their personal comfort and wealth to do good works. The parable of the good samaritan sums up his ideas about the relative importance of disagreements over dogma and doing good works.

The nuns are celibate, the priests either rape boys or cover it up. Which of these lifestyles is supposed to teach sexual morality again?

The priests say you must have a rape baby and be celibate, while they rape children.

The nuns say you must help the poor, teach the uneducated, and care for the sick, while they help the poor, teach the uneducated, and care for the sick.

The church has been wrong before about nuns. Look up Sister Mary MacKillop

You are so right! Now they want to pit women against women - to exert more control and to take the spotlight off of them. The sexist male hierarchy in the church is appalling. Hmmm,,,wonder what Jesus would say about all of this?

Seeing as God gave women the responsibility for giving birth to a child, maybe interfering in the process in which He developes the child isn't the best idea. He probably won't stop you, but it still probably isn't a great idea.