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Subscribe to RSSWASHINGTON -- The United States destroyed a target missile near Hawaii in the first successful test of a new Raytheon Co interceptor designed for an anti-missile shield in Europe, the company and a witness said.
In a statement, Raytheon said the SM-3 Block IB's "kinetic warhead acquired the target with its two-color infrared seeker and tracked it through intercept."
The firm said the target was launched from a missile range facility on the Hawaiian island of Kauai late on Wednesday. The test also involved the USS Lake Erie.
Russia threatens preemptive strike over planned US missile shield
"The U.S. Navy lit up the sky, knocking out the target missile," said Riki Ellison, a prominent missile-defense advocate who observed the test.
"This next-generation variant of the SM-3 is critical to the ballistic missile defense of the U.S. and our allies, because it can defeat the more sophisticated threats emerging around the world today," Dr. Taylor Lawrence, Raytheon Missile Systems president, said in a statement.
Richard Lehner, a spokesman for the Pentagon's Missile Defense Agency, told Reuters he could not yet confirm a successful test.
Reuters and msnbc.com staff contributed to this report.
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Take that North Korea........Now go suck on some tree bark.
"...it can defeat the more sophisticated threats emerging around the world today," Dr. Taylor Lawrence, Raytheon Missile Systems president, said." In other words, we are competing only against ourselves. More, more for military funding, make those fat republican cats in Congress smile while they cut away more programs for Americans. Build another $3B missile, instead of health care and education. Eisenhower said something to the effect that there's a faction in this party that wants only to be THE military power in the world. They said NO to jobs, NO to health care, NO to what's good for the U.S. Out with them. Vote Democratic for a return to sanity.
North Korea is a whole different ball of wax, their main threat is to South Korea with thousands of artillery pieces that can reach Sol Korea, crazy thing to have the center of your govt and largest city within artillery range of your enemy.
the democrats are right in there with them. don't kid yourself. good cop bad cop.
Bad cop, worse cop.
@earthgirl
Please do some homework and research defense contracts per state. The Democrats are far more guilty than Republicans of fighting for unnecessary defense contracts in their States. The largest defense contract States in the USA are all Blue.
Please try again...
Hey, I'm as about as liberal and Democratic as they come and I fully support this technology. I love it. This is the type of stuff that can render nuclear ballistic missiles obsolete. You take away the ability to launch nukes from deep within your own private space to other countries and you remove a lot of the attractiveness of even having them.
there is no "democrat" or "republican" anymore. only the right, and the far right.
wanna know the most hilarious thing I've seen recently though? I was having a good old row on one of my facebook friends posts about santorum, and this pro GOP woman came on and started spouting how we needed to read and educate via Glenn Beck and Ann Coulter. That her 17 year old girl had done the same. I was like, "Wow! She certainly came out of the closet!"
But in my retorts (and I'm no democrat either) i happened to look up Rupert Murdoch, Fox news founder back in the sacred days of Reagan and Thatcher, and wow, I posted and I think even the Coulterite woman was taken aback. His (Murdoch's) pro obama views, his "family values" divorcing his wife at 68, paying her off 1.3 BILLION dollars, and marrying a 30 year old. Hilarious!
people in this country are living in their own private idaho.
It looks like the military is getting ready to piss away another couple of hundred billion of our tax dollars. I have one simple question; WHY ?
After reading some of the posts about Russia, it sure sounds like more right wing hysteria. I have to wonder if you people realize that the cold war is over and the last thing Russia or any other country in the world wants is war with the United States..... it would be suicide.
Do you have any facts to support that ? I am not challenging, I personally do not know the answer, but I have never seen that fact anywhere until you posted it. I know that California would fall into that group, but what other states ?
@bigal
Jobs
The US Defense industry creates and sustains hundreds of thousands of US jobs...in every State in this Country.
earthgirl..........meanwhile it would seem that exploding underwear is our greatest real threat !
It will be obsolete before it is deployed. As usual for the sacred cows in our untouchable defense budget. But hey...look at all the jobs we're creating.
Daniel Scott Smith -
I wish I could get back the 20 seconds spent reading your post. I would dedicate it, and whatever additional time necessary to work in stamping out illiteracy.
*Wonders how much this missile technology is costing the average out pf work taxpayer*
Hey guys I have an Idea. When the Russians and North Koreans launch their missiles lets throw obsolete Solendra solar panels at them.
American Fable
But did you actually look up the Murdoch wikipedia? I was actually really surprised myself. Here all these years I thought he was actually a rightist, not just a mere opportunist. That he also invented the Star tabloid in the grocery lines? Glad my head isn't filled with 20 years of that nazi Fox dogma...
Anti-missile defense is a vital part of any military capability. We already have systems for short and intermediate-rage missiles, but nothing to take on the ICBMs. SBParrothead said it best: remove the effectiveness of these weapons and you greatly decrease their attractiveness.
If the point of our military is to protect the country, systems like this are more valuable than strike fighters or apache helicopters, which are short-range offensive weapons platforms.
Try $24 mill, smart person. And it's been in production for over 20 years.
Its SM-3 system has been deployed for 20 years. Less rhetoric, more facts.
square dude "North Korea is a whole different ball of wax, their main threat is to South Korea with thousands of artillery pieces that can reach Sol Korea, crazy thing to have the center of your govt and largest city within artillery range of your enemy."
The US has an artillery weapon that uses radar and computers to detect when an artillery shell is launched, calculate it's point of origin and fire an artillery shell to destroy the enemy's artillery - before the enemy artillery shell even hits the ground.
The much bigger problem is NK's nuclear/missile program, which could strike far beyond their borders and kill millions.
An anti-missile defense system would make it far less likely that they will try to use it.
No pictures? WTF MSNBC???
earthgirl ' "...it can defeat the more sophisticated threats emerging around the world today," Dr. Taylor Lawrence, Raytheon Missile Systems president, said." In other words, we are competing only against ourselves'
No, we're trying to defend ourselves - isn't that the purpose of DEFENSE?
I did an analysis in 2009 of all of the combat deaths that we have incurred over the last 96 years (48 under Democratic Presidents and 48 under Republican Presidents), and about 96% of our casualties occurred under Democratic Presidents.
Perhaps Republicans are just better at PREVENTING conflicts through a strong defense and a realistic foreign policy than the Democrats.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Yeah, sorry earthgirl... one of the critical functions of the government is defense. Since missiles attacks are possible the most dangerous to our country - simply because they come with little warning and can be devastating - missile defense is a fantastic investment by our government. I'd much rather have a missile shield in place than extend entitlements. Both would be nice, but if I had to choose...
Besides, it's better for the government to invest in the defense industry than most of the other low-paying industries out there. How did we get out of the Great Depression? In no small part because the government started spending lots of wartime money. Defense contractors are constantly hiring and training engineers and other high-tech majors, generally pay well with nice benefits (including health care), and make a contribution to the well-being of our country. Frankly, it's one of the few places in the budget where I'm fine with spending as much as we do. Republicans will have to cut it to make compromises with Democrats, of course, but I can't blame them for trying to protect it.
let us see; the American taxpayer pays billions to develop a anti-missile system, the American taxpayer pays to build a anti-missile system in Europe, the European army's are given the design, it will be sold to China, which will build the system and sell it to Iran, North Korea and any body else that has the money, , a very strange world we live in.
Sorry Dude, MSNBC can't post any pictures until the DOD confirms the target it hit wasn't a 747 inbound to Honolulu with Korean tourists.
@ Roy
Probably because Democratic presidents were serving during most of our major wars. Most people agree that WW2 was necessary, and the wars we fought during the Cold War were (at least on paper) intended to stop the spread of communism which, I am told, Republicans such as yourself hate. Besides, the Republicans seem fine with most of the wars we've fought regardless of the casualties...
That said, I think this is a necessary project. Considering the fear of a nation like North Korea, Iran, or Pakistan starting a nuclear world war, anything that can successfully shoot down a nuclear missile in flight is alright in my book.
Exactly who does this defend us against?
@bigallasvages, Russia? No disrespect ment.....but you need to get updated on who has what.
@roy, I feel your study 98 years is flawed by the fact that you didn't mention how soldiers fought warfare 98 years ago as opposed to todays stratigies. It has changed from groupes of soldiers standing wide open shooting groupes of men, to trench warfare, from moving the front foward to the way we do today. Tomorrows war will fought differently and the one after that will be different again. It was interesting to note that both Parties had equal time.
While I LOVE the success, we should be mindful that Russia had PROMISED a military offensive against Western Europe if the shield is actually deployed.
Oh please, the military already has a system in place that will do just what they are testing. They can't tell you this because if they did how would they keep directing money to these Military Industial companies. I advise folks to take the time and educate yourselves. Watch the video Angels Still Don't Play This HAARP by Dr. Nick Begich son of the late Nick Begich member of the United States House of Representatives from Alaska and brother of Senator Mark Begich, U.S. Senator from Alaska.
Dr. Begich explains how HAARP is used as a directed energy weapons system and the Military already admits some of it. What they also want to do is The military is going to give the ionosphere a big kick and see what happens."
The military failed to tell the public that they do not know what exactly will happen, but a Penn State science article brags about that uncertainty.
The military says the HAARP system is used for:
Give the military a tool to replace the electromagnetic pulse effect of atmospheric thermonuclear devices
Replace the huge Extremely Low Frequency (ELF) submarine communication system operating in Michigan and Wisconsin with a new and more compact technology
Be used to replace the over-the-horizon radar system that was once planned for the current location of HAARP, with a more flexible and accurate system
Provide a way to wipe out communications over an extremely large area, while keeping the military's own communications systems working
Provide a wide area earth-penetrating tomography which, if combined with the computing abilities of EMASS and Cray computers, would make it possible to verify many parts of nuclear nonproliferation and peace agreements
Be a tool for geophysical probing to find oil, gas and mineral deposits over a large area
Be used to detect incoming low-level planes and cruise missiles, making other technologies obsolete
Many people even think this system may have been used on 9/11, while I think this is a stretch who knows. It could explain why there was a hurricane of the coast of NY on 9/11 which made a 90 degree turn that day. It could also explain why there was a massive failure of radio and phone communications in the area. Now do I believe this...not really but there is enough info to make someone say... what if?? I will say one thing though, the 911 report is a bunch of crap. Just watch Dr. Nick Begich's YOUTUBE video Angels Still Don't Play This HAARP Granted it is a long video but it is worth it.
HAARP which by directing an energy pulse at incoming ICBMs will disrupt there electronics system,it can also tell which missles actually carry nuke payload and which ones are decoys.
Great job LAKE ERIE.
Now, the Department of the Navy needs to step up to the plate and provide FUNDING to our forward deployed ships so they can correct material deficiencies.
Nah, it is going to get worse with the DOD budget cuts.
I'm don't understand why this is a bad system to have around. I can't be the only one to think that, if HAARP is as powerful as the conspiracy theorists say it is, it's a good thing that it's in American hands, and not Russian, Chinese, or Iranian. And if it controls the weather and earthquakes, hell, that's icing on the cake.
These anti-missile missiles just don't work and have been a massive waste of taxpayer money for a "shield" that can't protect anything. Let's see some proof this thing actually can work, even 50% of the time.
I say put those billions of dollars where they are needed, in our schools!
Well done fishman-1985527 , you've managed to include every single retarded conspiracy theory about HAARP that's come out so far. I won't attempt to debunk them all. However, considering no security clearance is required to walk into the building, each summer they hold an open house for the public, and the fact that the Universities of Alaska, Stanford, Penn State, Boston College, Dartmouth, Cornell, University of Maryland, University of Massachusetts, MIT, Polytechnic University, UCLA, Clemson and the University of Tulsa all do research there the rest of the year, how could this have remained such a secret that the only people who know about what REALLY happens there are you select few?
Answer is, there is no secret weapons program there and I challenge you to prove me wrong with facts, not retarded rhetoric, or something from the idiotic Alex Jones Show.
HAARP beams energy in a tiny section of the Ionosphere, that same section of sky gets many hundreds of times more energy poured into it daily by solar radiation. HAARP has almost negligible effect on it.
As HAARP beams into the Ionosphere, the energy cannot be absorbed into the troposphere or the stratosphere, which is where weather is formed, thus having ZERO ability to affect weather in ANY way.
As for this 9/11 hurricane 90 degree turn? I about laughed myself silly. Took me all of 5 secs to Google "Atlantic Hurricane Paths" and come up with:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Retired_Atlantic_hurricane_tracks.png
In which I can see some pretty awesome turns, spins, 180's, oh and lots of 90 degree direction changes. I guess all those must be HAARP related as well.
Come on, someone else post something equally amusing to debunk, this was fun!
OT, but given that we spend the most per student in the world, I don't think the problem with our students' academic performance is money, Overlord...
After failing the earlier tests several times in the row, the warmongers have something to celebrate... More money pissed away on defense against non-existing threats. US is spending more money on defense than the rest of the world combined - and now they want to take more money from food stamps and school lunch programs to waste even more on warmongering.
Fact is the military industrial complex is in search of a new enemy. The last one was only good for ten years of seemingly endless war. If one can't be found soon they will see about digging up old adversaries to see if they can antagonize them into playing (read Russia or maybe China). This is precisely what ABM defense is designed to do. The Russians have said what they would do since Nixon if the US deploys ABM on a grand scale. Of course the Russians will develop countermeasures and the arms race continues and the chances of a miscalculation increase dramatically.
There is about as much economic sense in exorbitant defense (some would say offense) spending as burning money for heating. When you build a missile all it does is sit in a hole, when you build a high speed rail system, or a road, or educate your youngsters, these things churn economic activity over and over again. Defense spending has become, as Ike said it would, nothing more than corporate welfare.
Anybody care to guess how much has already been spent on "Starwars"?
6dogs "@roy, I feel your study 98 years is flawed by the fact that you didn't mention how soldiers fought warfare 98 years ago as opposed to today's strategies."
That's not a 'flaw' in the study - but it is an interesting observation. Casualties in WW1 were very high because the generals used outdated tactics (human wave charges) against the newly developed machine guns - little more than mass suicide.
In WW2, the Japanese also used human wave charges against American positions - again with predictable results, and in the Korean War, the Chinese did the same.
Modern warfare has become far more sophisticated, but with nuclear weapons and 'push-button technology', the 'potential' for massive casualties is still present.
Saxon,
Do not have to look toward Europe to sell us out to China, the Dems do a good enough job of it. Remember when 'Billy Boy Clinton', gave China our 'Satellite Technology, along with our Star Wars Plans'...
Ditto.
Seoul Korea, not Sol Korea...
Yes, if the sanity we've observed over the last 4 years continues, good times will be had by all...
With the Russians, or should we start calling them Soviets again, threatening to attack any bases containing these new defensive missiles in Europe, I say do what they did. Install them on Scud like vehicles and just have them delivered by C17. To hell with them. What's the matter??? Putin will lose his Input. Get it??? PUT IN.... IN PUT.... So again the bear growls and so as JFK did call them out on it. They this time will have to search for truck launchers instead of missile sights. That's if someone is listening. Think about it.
yep. keep on burning that fuel. God, when i think of all the money we've spent since i was a kid just keeping those planes in the air. 3300 gallons of fuel an hour to fly a b-52. at what dollar rate that bp or exxon charges the AF? You do the math.
(look at fact 11)
I wonder if this will start the final war with Russia?
Didnt anyone hear Obama caught on the open michrophone recently at the sumit? The soviet president expressed concern about the missles and Obama told him to tell Puting not to worry about it and wait until after the elections. Now what does that tell you? All this money spent and arguing here is for nothing. They will never go forward with this shield. He does not want to give the GOP any ground to criticize himduring the elections. Personally, I think we need to sea base a system on ships and not publicize it. This way we are not endangering other countries by putting it on their soil and system could be moved as needed if old threat goes away or a more ugent one arises.
Putin didn't say he would attack bases with missile shields just because they have them. What he said was that if the shields are seen as imbalancing the stance of Russia's military capabilities that the Russians could destroy the bases if there was an immediate need and threat.
Translation: All options are on the table.
This was political bluster - they had an election just a week later!! Putin had to seem to take a hard line in order to shore up his votes among conservatives. Russia is also friendly with Iran - mostly for their oil, so they throw them a bone every now and then by standing up to the West even if it is just for show. Putin is caught between many factions with his alliances and sometimes he may seem to be against us and sometimes against someone else. He is far from starting a war over missile shields.
Privately the US and Russia have had many talks with many assurances. But an off the cuff conversation is pretty far from a pact. I wouldn't read too much into any conversation had in a hallway between two leaders who have to walk thin lines for their own constituencies. Anyway, whose election were they talking about? Obama's or Putin's? With Russia's election over the pressure may be off Putin for a while to take a hardline on the issue.
military.com has a video of the USAF test back in the 70's where they kicked an icbm out the rear of a c-5 galaxy and fired it in midair just to see if it would work. it did and the test was considered a success.
Russia and Iran are already friendly enough. This could start WW III.
I doubt it. Russia's relationship with Iran is not strong enough for them to defend Iran militarily. Iran sells them oil, Russia sells them weapons and technology. That's about it. It is nothing like America's relationship with Israel. Russia also steps lightly with Iran because Russia has many problems with Islamists in it's former states. Any sense that they aren't supportive of Muslim countries can cause big problems for Russia at home. They have already experienced many terrorist attacks from Chechen rebels and Islamists from the "stans" along its southern boarder.
Gentlemen, have you forgotten that we did the pretty much the same dealings with Iran, than we change sides and did the same thing with Iraq? There is a lot of our own military stuff there land mines, toe poppers etc. still hidden in the sands.
Stay one step ahead of them
And besides, the ABM is more for the future terrorist strikes than Russia anyway
Russia apparently doesn't think so.
Are the target missiles still carrying beacons to assist the interceptor in finding them?
Between these kinetic warheads and the emerging railguns it looks like a whole new ballgame.
Wait a minute...hold on...the Union of concerned scientists have been telling us for years that this technology can't work...why it's like trying to hit a bullet with a bullet (to quote them)...and after all...this is Ronald Reagan "Stars Wars" stuff and everyone on the left knows it has been a huge waste of money...why it's been the blunt of jokes by the best liberal minds ever since he proposed it!
And now the Russians are threatening a preemptive strike if we build a missile shield in Europe...where are their heads at...look guys don't sweat it...this stuff doesn't work and has no future....don't you read the Washington Post and New York Times?
I recall the scientists stating that the challenge was like hitting a bullet hitting a bullet. I don't think that was the concern of the system's opponents. Their concern was 1) that countermeasures could more easily and cheaply be developed and systems like these could not keep up with them; and 2) that the system could destabilize the political relationship and lead to war.
The cheapest delivery system is a cargo container on a ship. Most major cities on our coasts get them. Hard to intercept something you dont know is coming.
yeah i have a neighbor here in Houston who's in construction and he said he has a friend of friend who was here illegally from like el salvador or wherever, he committed some crimes and was in jail for 6 months and then deported, but he's already back. my friend said if we had terrorists coming here they'll just walk over...
Nah, Kenn, it's possible. Maybe not a satellite-based laser defense system (yet) but it's possible. It's just a question of how complicated the math is going to be.
@kenn the dem, let's go back to Iraq invades Kuait time frame. Before we moved on Iraq forces they fired Scuds, had some hits. (sorry but missle that we brought in, name eludes me at this moment.) was an anti- aircraft, and surface to surface missle. We weren't even sure it would work, but it did. We had nothing to deal with this at this time and it was taking a gamble. Although it worked it was also noted that the warhead was to small but got the job done. I have heard of this being refered to as shooting a bullit with a bullit. Not as impossible.
6 dogs- they were called "Patriot Missiles." We've got 'em, England's got 'em, and so does Israel (to name a few).
Yes they were "Patriots" and their record was overhyped and inflated, on purpose. It did however serve to position Raytheon as the almost sole supplier of missiles to the US government. They were for anti-aircraft, although they were as good as we could do against the SCUDs, yes they did score some hits, a few, they didn't destroy the warheads , and were incapable of hitting ICBM's coming in from space. ABM research has been a long time bearing any success and it's been a long time since the US pulled out of the anti-ballistic missile treaty with the Russians in 2002, a treaty that had been effect since 1972. It is hard for me to understand why this isn't called "wasteful government spending", considering the facts that led to the ABM treaty are still in effect today, that is that countermeasures are already in place that would overwhelm any missile shield, except in a single launch scenario.
Raytheon Co interceptor;Remember China beat your A** once in Vietnam
John Julius:
China had little to do with arming Vietnam or beating USA in Vietnam. Majority of North Vietnam's military gear came from USSR: MIGs, SAMs, radar, and even AA artillery. Mostly, China provided the roads, transportation and small arms. And finally, there's no connection between the Raytheon interceptor and America's defeat in Vietnam.
one is just an extension of the other.
here's the letter that ho chi minh wrote in 1946 right after WWII asking for US help against the French.
Instead, we ignored him, took the place of the French, and the rest is history. Think of all the lives and money we lost in that action, still to this day from soldiers with wrecked Agent Orange bodies, minds wrecked.
the "war on terror" and all resulting military budget is a direct extension of that Vietnam period, same corporate cast of characters. only the military has become much more adept at controlling the media, so you don't see the civilian deaths and firefights on tv nightly like you did during Vietnam.
war is big business. very big.
Our military didn't lose in Vietnam....the politicians DID.
i'm not surprised liberals don't have a grasp of Vietnam. according to them the only significant issue that happened was My Lai. i had a college history professor spend more time on that than the Tet Offensive. what a joke.
No, John, we beat ourselves. The military did everything we asked of them, but 1) we didn't have good political leadership (LBJ was a puppet), 2) we didn't have a good PLAN, 3) we didn't have popular support at home, 4) we didn't have the stomach to fight on the level that success would have required, and 5) we weren't ready to make the necessary sacrifices to win (like staying for 50-60 years after "winning" - see Germany/Japan).
Don't give China credit for being "better" just because they didn't care how many people they killed. If we had taken the same approach China would still be glowing.
JR 700062,
We beat ourselves like you said. We beat ourselves for engaging in Vietnam in the first place. We didn't have support either from the Vietnamese or the US public. Sometimes the only way to "win" is to not fight in the first place. The political leadership was poor for engaging, and if the only "plan" to "convert" somebody to our way of thinking is to kill them, well....... and no we did not want to stay 60 years. As for the comment "China would still be glowing", it would be likely that so would we and everyone else for that matter. We had no business going in the first place.
I would say we won and then we lost, snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, as they say. When you quit before the game is over, you lose automatically. After the North got wiped out by the failure of the Tet Offensive, we could have walked into Hanoi with a popgun. Instead, the whiny politicians got all scared because there was finally a real battle in the war, and they ordered everybody to leave. Once we were gone, obviously we were in no position to win anymore. So yeah, we lost, but it didn't have anything to do with China or Russia or even Vietnam. It was the crazy idea of the politicians that they could have a war without killing anybody. Same theory left Saddam in power after the first Gulf War. Some lessons never seem to be learned.
But it DOES Work and it works very well for short and Medium range missiles and it is improving all the time against even the Long range Ballistic missile.
Raytheon has come a long ways since Reagan's Star Wars Proposal of 25 years ago.
Think about a small Computer's ability to calculate in 1987 versus its ability today... Also. It is not a Bullet hitting a Bullet anymore.
Using Kinetic Energy its more like a big ol 8 Gauge shotgun manned by the best wingshooter on the planet hitting a Green Winged teal.
Yes, the target is way small and way fast but a great shooter with a Shell tossing out a huge pattern just cant miss!!
25 years ago the calculations could not be made fast enough by the available computers to determine the point of interception to an accurate degree.
Today it is a whole new ballgame and the Russians know it is a game changer.......Even the patriot missile worked somewhat way back in 1990. granted it was far from perfect and had an approximate 50/50 chance of hitting the target, but again that was 22 years ago. Most of us have gone through 3 or 4 cars in that time...
Todd, liberal minds were made up on this issue years ago...please don't confuse them with facts...but then since this article talks about a successful test...liberals wouldn't be reading about it anyway...on second thought...go ahead!
Todd:
The ABM treaty, signed between USA and USSR, halted a very expensive ABM arms race to the financial and security advantage of both nations. Only the Military Industrial Complex (MIC) and war lovers found the ABM viable for obvious reasons.
By the 80s, MIRV technology had advanced to the point where even the most sophisticated ABM could not discern the decoys from the real McCoy. Even with ABM's advanced detection, tracking, and guidance, a nuclear explosion in the upper atmosphere would create sufficient ionization and electro-magnetic disturbance to confuse and thus, neutralize ABM's highly sensitive electronics, even the harden ones. The flaw or weakness of the ABM or any modern missile interceptor is not the speed of the CPU or interception algorithm, but rather the attacking missile can deploy effective countermeasures against the interceptor.
In the Faukland War, the British lost two modern missile cruisers, one to a French made Exocet and the other to some dumb bombs released from Argentine A-4s, salvaged from America's military junk yards. The HMS Sheffield and its sister the Coventry both employed a three layer defensive shield: one long range, one mediam range missile, and a close range radar directed AA artillery.
It is no longer the case of a bullet hitting another bullet; it's about a bullet having to evade a number of fake ones and identifying the real bullet and then hitting it. The Patriot missile didn't have to ask " will the real payload please stand up?" against the single-war head dumb Scud with its slow flying, low elevation, fixed trajectory flight path and known-in-advance launch schedule. And still the Patriot only managed to hit 50/50, at best.
The MIC and war lovers would like to portray this experimental interception as a complete success to the naive public after several pass failures in their bid to restore or sustain military funding. The propaganda machines apparently work better than their ABM interceptor.
As of 6:20 success has not yet been confirmed according to this report.
Yes and the Russians will be forced to develop missiles with 20 or thirty MIRV's with countermeasures and so it goes, down the wormhole.
Very cool.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm a public school graduate. Can someone remind me WHICH one of the United States is located in Europe so I can understand why we are deploying this system there?
No states, but we've got to defend Switzerland. We can't have Mitt's money getting blown up.
AmericanFirst:
America has military bases around the world. America's nearly one dozen nuke carriers and their compliment of task force support vessels sail the seven seas. At present, the American military has surrounded Russia and China with either military bases or naval forces. The missile shield in Europe is America's modern Marginot Line against the army from the East.
The Military Industrial Complex and war mongers love all of this war posturing for obvious reasons. The American taxpayers, on the other hand, have to be taught how to embrace the fear and the necessary lost of freedom -- as well as accept the hefty tax burden.
As most Americans are the product of government operated public schools, they had been well taught that the Vietnam War was necessary because of the Cold War's "Dominoe Theory. " Today as the "Commie' no longer serve effectively as the Boogie Man, they are taught there's a terrorist around every corner.
Its easier to intercept a missile when it is boosting than when its closer in. Thats why its important to base these missiles as close to our enemies as we can.
You remember how well the Maginot line worked, right?
The other reason, AmericaFirst, is that we're contributing to the defense of NATO. Can't keep nice defensive technology like a missile shield to ourselves, now, can we?
Can you just imagine how much money will pour in from the sales of this weapon?
Because our largest military base, and the only thing keeping Russia out of Western Europe over the last 40 years, was in Germany???
this is just the cuban missle crisis in reverse, who do you think will blink first? as i understand it this system will not even be fully functional till 2020 (assuming it works),so that does give time for negoations but one has to wonder with former kgb spy Putin back in charge thathey may not be the one to blink especially if Romney is Pres.and with the repub's new motto of "we will not compromise with anybody" one has to wonder what kind of message that sends to the "Soviets" as Romney calls them.
This is not out of the realm of possibility. During the Reagan build-up of Pershings in Europe, the subsequent deployment of SS-20(?), and the "evil empire" "red dawn" shenanaghians the Soviets almost blundered into a nuclear strike against the US. This is fact. It was as close to the final holocaust as we've ever come. Someday all of this "capability" will get out of hand.
I think WE had better line our East and West coasts with them FIRST, especially with China building new subs.
Waldo:
Chinese subs are fewer in numbers and noisier than any Russian class subs. Chinese nuke subs are no better than US Polaris subs from the 60s and without the reliable and accuracy of the Polaris. America has progressed to the advance Trident, the fourth generation of SLBM, and super quiet attack subs. While China has less than a handful of nuke subs, America has several hundreds lurking under the seven seas, including the China Sea.
The Military Industrial Complex and war mongers have brainwashed naive Americans into believing several foreign nations are military aggressors despite America's continuously waging four wars in Asia and Middle East for nearly 10 years and deploying its vast military might worldwide assassinating people at will, overtly and covertly.
Believe me, any Chinese sub that takes to sea has a U.S. attack sub following it. We know where they are better than they do.
Yeah, I've heard that now there are nearly a million people with top security clearance just here in the US. One of them is in your ceiling.
Lay off the Aegis crack...
BELIEVE ME
#D
FatCatGets$700Bil
Waldo:
I got some news for ya Fat Cat. One of their conventional "Noiseless" subs happened to 'pop up' in the middle of one of our war exercises just a while back. We had absolutely no idea that it was even close. As fast as the yellow horde can steal our secrets, I would have absolutely no trouble saying that they have the technology to launch missiles at us from just off shore of the U.S. Why do you think they're chumming up to our neighbors in the Caribbean basin and South America? The yellow devils don't need fixed land based launchers. Just places to resupply their subs.
@fatcat, You sound like sombody standing on one side of the fence pointin 1 finger up the fence line, and the other down the line. I can't tell which side of the fence your on.
6dogs, that's because it's one of those magical fences built by the MIC and the Majestic 12 under the supervision of Jesuit Ninjas.
Waldo,
Thats the most absurd stance to take. But typical of left wing loons and lemmings to take unfacted, unresearched "stories" from news reports on MSNBC and CNN, even Fox got sucked into this one!
Just keep believing that we didn't know the sub was there!!!
This was what we call in the Navy and "photo op", totally planned.
When you understand the technology, assets used and tactics, let me know. (SOSUS, Towed Arrays, Attack subs and air dropped sonobuoys with passive and active sonar and other technologies that will not be mentioned) .
I am a 30 year Navy Anti-sub Warfare expert and know the capabilities. I believe its mentioned that when an enemy sub leaves port, we are on it like white on rice. This is a true statement. It rarely gets lost from us and if it does, all hell breaks loose and we spool up with all assets until its found.
Again, "we had absolutely no idea that it was even close" is quite a bold and absurd statement coming from someone sitting in their house watching TV or reading Blogs with zero knowledge of tactics and assets.
Heres another one you probably are obsessed with and zero real knowledge as well-
Every time I see some post from bloggers and unknowing about the "mission accomplished" ruse the media employed against GWB I feel inclined to respond. I was there on USS Abraham Lincoln when the President landed and addressed us for OUR "Mission Accomplished". Meaning the crew of the USS Abraham Lincoln and the embarked Air Wing had accomplished their mission, nothing more, nothing less.
Look we were on our way home after 6 months deployed, got the call to go back to the Gulf in response to 9-11 and we finally were again on our way home after 10 months gone from family and friends to respond to the call of duty our nation needed.
When you understand the whole context of what really happened at that moment, you will be pissed at yourselves for believing that any president of ours would proclaim that the War in Iraq was over at at that time (Mission Accomplished).
We of the crew made that banner and put it up as a sign that we accomplished our mission. GWB didn't even know we were going to do it, or any of his people had anything to do with it. GET IT???
Moreover, you should be more pissed and ashamed at yourselves for believing what you read and saw from MSNBC and the left wing nut job reporters after the fact.
This one got twisted beyond belief. I am not a Bush supporter, I think he's a real Moron and did us wrong in many ways. But having been there at that time, I will never accuse him of proclaiming the war in Iraq as "mission accomplished" for that one emotional moment he was with the crew and the airwing thanking us for accomplishing OUR mission. Nothing more, nothing less.
Does that make sense? Or is that too factual to comprehend. Put your emotions aside and base opinions on facts, not emotions and what you read and hear third hand from the left media.
Also, what moron would believe that a War is a mission???
"Missions" are parts of Wars and there are THOUSANDS of "missions" in every War.
Again for anyone to believe that a President would equate one mission with an entire War is absurd.
When you look at the facts there were still 3 aircraft carriers on station dropping bombs and over 300,000 troops on the ground conducting lethal ops on the enemy when that moment occurred.
How the hell can your mind work that way that you even consider he meant the War was over?
Bottom Line Up Front (BLUF)- The USS Abraham Lincoln crew and AirWing was called upon to perform a mission and did it with great success and sacrifice. "Mission Accomplished" GET IT???
@Fudog130:
Well I really don't know how much of an "Expert" you really are if you only read what you want to read and only hear what you want to hear so here ya go Mr. Expert.
http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/archive/2008/April/Pages/AntiSub2301.aspx
I'm certainly no expert like you, but I do read WIDELY. And this article isn't from a Disney Comic, Ace.....
And there are other articles from solid government and industry sources also. To call me any name when you don't know me or my writings is the rambling of a "Typical" Loud Mouthed, shoot from the hip, Moron. You were probably a Seaman on an Admiral's Barge polishing the decks with your toothbrush to make points.
i can understand if we get together as partners with the russians on the missile defence system where they pay for 50 pct of the cost allso to protect all of our borders and europes borders from the radicle muslim countrys and we install the missiles everywhere to protect us and europe install them even in mexico cuba some of the carribian islands even though cuba and mexico are right by us its still a great idea to put a system there allso we can shot down any incomeing missiles before they hit our land thats if they even make it across the ocean i dont think that iran or any of the middle eastern countrys have the capability to strike us from the air there just known for suicide bombers that they are doing everyday
JEEZ! Go back to Grammar School.
their is the teck. to do this in 10 years once perfected we can blow thier stuff right over thier own lands 4 thumbs up.
OK so you just printed a preliminary press release with minor input.
Can you tell me if this program has cost a trillion dollars yet?
I wish the US Govt would stop thinking small with things like a missile defense system. We already own the greatest missile defense system in the world. Its called a nuclear stockpile.
Its time to put the world on notice that if any country's govt decides to attack the US or its interests, they will pay the ultimate price. Enough said?
US, please stop being such wimps and hoping we can minimize the damage with crap like a missile defense shield. Just adopt a zero tolerance on attacks and let the real ass whipping befall those responsible for such stupidity.
To all peace-nicks: I am not a war monger. I want the US to stop spending billions on defense systems that are iffy at best and go with a proven winner; Deterrence. It should make you think.
@Okeeboy, This whole country thought that way until, during WWII. They found out that German subs could reach us. Japan was messin around the Panama Canal and homeland Japan launched bomb ballon on air currents to bomb us. It was thought that none of these bombs ever made it here until recently. one was found in the woods in Oregon or Washington. Sadly a young man was killed by this one. As delivery systems get improved so must defence systems. It's like buying yourself the most up to snuff, best top of the line computer this morning and before you even get it home.....it's obsolete. So aren't the missles you talk about.
don't equate deterrence with isolationism. Fail.
If Obama is re-elected, his whispered promise of "more flexibility" due to no worries about running again wil allow him to delay, cancel or compromise the ABM system. Count on it.
Oh STFU.....if he wanted to cancel it he would have done it already. sheesh.
If Obama is re-elected it just won't matter. Bend over and kiss your rear goodbye.
Personally, my ass was already gone after Reagan and Bush I. Clinton just came in and out Republicaned them. That's why they hated him so much. Balanced budget (fiscal conservatism), building up the police state (Supermax), reform of welfare (austerity measures). Nafta. You realize tho that out of the past 32 years GOP has been in prez for 20 of them?
I was a soldier when Carter came in a slashed the military budgets. cooincidentially, he was also president when the fake Oil crisis drove Gas prices to ove a dollar.
I and my fellow veterans from Vietnam faced a liberal persecution and say our military become a joke in the world community. There was a huge military operation in 1976 where whole divisions were sent to Europe as a war game. It was a total disaster. We still had the worn out vehicles from Nam and they were scattered across Europe broken down due to lack of maintenance funding or just too old to function. We were forced to eat rations from the Korean War.
You people just don't get it do you? America has been the police for the world since WW2. Wilson in WW1 tried to created an honaorable peace that probably would have stopped WW2, but European powers saw no profit in it.
After WW2, NATO was born from the league of Nations, but only because the US Military was strong and kept strong.
As long as there are the Hitlers, and Stalins and all the would be dictators out there, we must remain strong.
WOW, it looks like the conservatives are taking credit for the successful kinetic weapon. They even invoked the name of the great leader Ronny Raygun. Fact is the starwars envisioned by Raygun was ray guns not railguns. Additionally, those scientists who developed this technology were probably Liberals, because there are very few intelligent conservative scientists. Most conservatives would rather pray for a win.
Looks like the liberal comedians are out this morning, with all the misguided funnies.
that aint funny. that's facism.
Very few conser..... HA! Ha ha ha! Wow, Rweber. Okay then. You've... heh... definitely made your point as a smart, rational person.
In my experience, buddy, your political ideology has a lot more to do with where you were raised than your intelligence. I live in Virginia. I know a couple dozen brilliant engineers would would identify as conservative or libertarian. Most of the liberals I know wasted their majors on history, psychology, or the likes. Could I make some sort of assumption based on that and just say that conservatives are smarter than liberals? No. That's just one small sample. If I went further north to blue states, I'm sure I'd find plenty of smart liberals. Honestly, dude, think it through before going off on stuff like that.
Noryc,
You sound intelligent and you mentioned your experience. I grew up in the mountains where we learned first to think before making judgements as to specific actions. A wise person once said that Experience is a harsh teacher.
It does not matter what a person majored in that determines whether a person is smart. The question is "Does a smart person have wisdom to go along with it?" You see wisdom comes only from experience. That is why all the past, and ancient cultures respected and revered their Elders. Smart liberals? yes, but to what end? The Government that was set up by 13 colonies, that could not agree on a set of rules for a very long time, made it clear that we needed the rules that were set down in the Constitution, and related documents as a future guide in order to protect us from the threat of Dictators and Despots. This can mean threats from the far left of politics or from the far right. But this will all be mute point if the nation is not allowed to protect itself from the external and internal threats to the Constitution. The next time you hear Rosanne Barr or some other libtard desecrate our national anthem, do not laugh, cry. Let the American spirit be reborn and hold the enemies accountable.
RWeber, you must be the pride of your kindergarten class. If you wonder why there were so many Republicans and so little Democrats as president, take a look at our conflicts after Vietnam. Regan, and both daddy and GW Bush kept the military strong thus we have not had a serious threat to our nation in the form of open war. That is because they kept the R&R going into military technology. When the Stealth bombers knocked out the Radar of Sadam, where do think that money came from? Your Libtard mouth might say that the money should have been spent on more welfare programs, but then you would not have the opportunity to speak you trash in a totalitarian society, would you?
Obama, after re-elected, will have a lot more flexibility to do what Russia wants. Re-elect Obama.
Katlan, why are you so hot to start a conflict with Russia? Did they take your cookie from you?
What is it that russia wants,and the president is going to give them?Do you think russia wants to attack us?If so,why?For 60 years MAD has prevented that,and now when tensions with russia are much lower than in the 50's,60's,or 70's,you think russia is going to wipe both countries off the map?Are you serious?
I'm glad we can have more protection. I do not want to provoke Russia into a preemptive strike. I do not want to cause that kind of fear with Russia, just the Countries we feel are dangerous to the world. I hope we maintain 100% possession and control of these missiles even on foreign soil. In the Movie War Games it was said "The best way to win is to not play the game".
Oh... well, if Matthew Broderick said it, then...
Nice to OPSEC is up and running....maybe because I am not big on announcing to the world what we have, but why do we always have to show what we have...of course I am sure the other side has a hint already but come on Big Navy...test in private then keep your mouth shut
The most sophisticated missile system in the world and MSNBC still can't "grammar check" an article. We're doomed!
It's nice to know the technology is improving, but one successful test does not mean all that much. And we have been down this road before, of thinking that gee-whiz-bang technology will solve everything. We should have learned the futility of that lesson many times over, first in vietnam where the US was defeated by scrawny little guys in black pajamas carrying AK-47s and then on 9/11. The most powerful military on Earth could not prevent terrorists from hijacking civilian airliners and turning them into guided missiles against the Twin Towers.
The missile interceptor system will work fine for U.S. Navy ships faced with being attacked by a limited number of enemy missiles at one time. In that context, and probably ONLY in that coontext, missile defense will work fine.
The missile interceptor system will almost certainly NOT work fine when confronted by a serious and determined enemy strike in which the enemy fires dozens if not hundreds of missiles at once. That's the problem with a missile defense system, it has to be perfect every single time. An all-out enemy missile attack merely has to fire enough missiles to overwhelm any defense screen, including some containing dummy decoy missiles or decoy warheads.
This is why missile defense, as a TACTICAL defensive system, works okay in certain situations, while missile defense as a STRATEGIC defensive system fails completely. This is exactly why we were wise to have spent decades abiding by the ABM Treaty, and why were were stupid to have pulled out of that treaty.
The Russians' historic fears of being attacked by outsiders should be considered and taken seriously; they were suddenly and deliberately invaded by the Nazis, they lost huge swaths of territory and 20 million of their fellow citizens. Their paranoia is well-justified. To them, a Western anti-missile system is a perfect screen for launching a first-strike attack against Russia while using an anti-missile defense to block a counter-strike; it is a perfect tool for starting and winning an all-out nuclear exchange.
The whole idea of putting an anti-missile system supposedly in EUROPE to supposedly block a strike from IRAN or NORTH KOREA is absolute lying nonsense, put forth by people who know perfectly well that the majority of Americans are too stupid to consult something known as a MAP.
The whole so-called 'logic' behind a missile defense system located in EUROPE makes utterly no sense at all -- unless you really do want to use it as a first strike weapon to attack the Russians.
If NORTH KOREA was going to launch a missile attack against America, they would fire the missiles in the completely other direction, AWAY FROM Europe and over the Pacific to hit America's West Coast. They have utterly no interest in attacking anyone in Europe, and absolutely no one in Europe seriously believes North Korea to be any kind of 'threat' to Europe, nor does anyone in Europe wish to be "defended from" North Korea by the United States.
If IRAN was going to launch a missile attack against America, they would fire the missiles on a trajectory over the Middle East -- not over Europe. They have utterly no interest in attacking anyone in Europe, and absolutely no one in Europe seriously believes Iran to be any kind of 'threat' to Europe, nor does anyone in Europe wish to be "defended from" Iran by the United States. Most of Europe enjoys diplomatic relations with Iran and are quite content to trade and do business with Iran.
The so-called "anti-missile shield" in Europe makes utterly no sense, unless it is intended exactly as the Russians fear -- to be used as a first-strike weapon against them. Other than that, it serves no purpose and no point. Neither North Korea nor Iran would ever conceivably have any reason for attacking Europe; if they ever even did, they would almost certainly do so using huge numbers of missiles which the so-called "missile shield" could never actually cope with or defeat anyway.
A European-based U.S. "missile defense shield" is a complete lie. It is nonsense. It is a non-solution to an imaginary, lying, fictitious alleged "problem" which no one in Europe even believes or agrees exists.
Apparently, you're not familiar with the Coriolis effect and how it affects the trajectories of intercontinental ballistic missiles.
Too long willy...didn't read...
It looks like this missile system is like the kinetic U.S. missile defense system THAD,which the U.S. possesses.
Let's get something straight there John Julius....The US was never beat in Viet Nam by China or anyone else and our soldier's never lost a battle. We could still be there today kickin a.. and killing commie's if there were any need to. So let's just drob all this crap about loseing the Viet Nam war, time's changed our politician's woke up and we came home, can anyone tell me: where is the spread of communism? End of story that no American servicemen or women have ever died in vain, especially Viet Nam. So thank a Vet for it is their unquestionable patronage to answer any call to guard America, dispite all odd's, political opinion's or misguided idea's, Viet Nam was full of, that insure's no foreign enemy will ever succede on American soil.
You are right, we did not lose any major battles, but we did lose our soul and our innocence. You are also right about the Vets who fought and died because they took an oath to do so. Unfortunately many blamed our vets for the war instead of the politicians who sent them there to fight and die.
"Spit at in Oakland, 1968 while escorting remains of a fallen brother"
well, there's some reason why it was decided to no longer show coverage of wars during this present, and longest ever, one, right? you know, the one which it seems never happened?