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James R. Evans / U.S. Pacific Fleet
Dolphins surface as the USS Halsey destroyer maneuvers off Southern California on Sept. 30, 2011.
New Navy estimates showing many more dolphins, whales and other marine mammals could be hurt by sonar off Hawaii and Southern California caused alarm among environmentalists on Friday. The Navy, for its part, emphasized those were worst-case estimates and that the numbers cover a much larger testing area than before.
The numbers are in the Navy's new draft environmental impact statement for exercises planned from 2014-2018. In it, the Navy says that, under its preferred alternative, sonar training and testing might unintentionally harm marine mammals 2.8 million times a year over five years.
"The numbers are staggering and there is absolutely no corresponding mitigation to account for this harm," Zak Smith, an attorney for the Natural Resources Defense Council, told msnbc.com.
Nov. 12, 2008: The Supreme Court ruled that the Navy can conduct military sonar training exercises.
That's up from about 150,000 instances a year in the Navy's impact statement for 2009-2013, Smith added.
But the Navy said the numbers were misleading since the new area is much larger and more activities have been added since the last statement. "It's like comparing three grapes to a watermelon," Pacific Fleet spokesman Mark Matsunaga told msnbc.com.
"These are just worst-case estimates," he added. "That's not to say we're going to go out there and hurt them all."
"Direct comparisons with the prior analysis might not be comparing apples to apples," acknowleged Smith. "But I think that's irrelevant. ... Regardless of what accounts for this change the fact is that we -- including the Navy -- now understand that the Navy's activities will have a much greater impact than previously thought."
Twelve million potential exposures over those five years are listed under "behavioral," Smith noted. It's the least harmful category, but Smith said it can include an impact like forcing a whale to abandon its habitat for several days. "Marine mammals don't have the energy to continually withstand" that kind of impact, he added.
Two million incidents are counted for temporary hearing loss, Smith said, and 2,000 are listed for permanent hearing loss.
Hearing is critical to marine mammals, much like seeing is to humans, Smith said. "It's as if some technology used in my neighborhood blinded me for the next 10 minutes. It becomes a problem if I go outside and get hit by a car."
Dolphins are the most impacted species under the new estimates, which are based on models, followed by whales and orcas.
In addition, the Navy estimates traditional explosives testing and training might kill 1,000 marine mammals during the period.
The Navy numbers were presented Thursday by John Van Name, a senior environmental planner at the U.S. Pacific Fleet.
US sued over sonar tests in whale waters
"Each time around, each time we swing through this process, we get better, we take a harder look, we become more inclusive," the Associated Press quoted him as saying.
Matsunaga added that the new estimates include "more activities that weren't analyzed the first time around" and "hundreds more sources of sound" from Navy ships.
"We're at an early stage of the process," said Matsunaga, noting that the estimates don't take into account Navy mitigation.
Smith said his group isn't looking to block sonar and explosives testing and training, but to see it used at times and places where the impacts to marine mammals are minimized.
Will the Navy work with other federal agencies to mitigate the damage?
"That's the big question," said Smith, noting that, as part of the environmental process, the Navy is now taking public comments and then will consult with the National Marine Fisheries Service.
The NRDC, he added, will be submitting formal comments and hopes that the Navy and the fisheries service will eventually have "a very thoughtful conversation as to what they can work out."
Public comment on the draft environmental impact statement is being accepted at http://hstteis.com.
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Leave a Comment:
It's incredible.... That we just don't care about any living creature on earth.. we decide who dies who lives just like that and just for our damn ego. Sucks soon we will have obnly pictures of animals cause we are doing a damn good job killing them all................... Screw you Navy........
The navy is the ones responseable for srewing up the whales sonar resulting in them beaching themselfs. They have known about it for years but claimed they didn't do anything.
Get educated man, without our Navy you would be speaking Japaneese or German.
Since when is Mary a man?
And without military might and industrial warfare, we might still be living in community with the creatures who gave us this technology we've used only to destroy them.
I'd rather speak sonar than any man-made tongue.
I thought that was what you were speaking.
if you look at the post, he was clearly responding to the first post, as his comment is only 1 indent from jc, even though his post is under mary...if he was responding to mary, it would have indented 1 more
Maybe they should develop a warning system where they broadcast a special sound, similar to, but distinct from, the animals usual calls. This could be done around the area where the testing would take place for several days before the test. These animals have fair intelligence and might learn to avoid the area after associating painfully loud sonar with the warning calls. The calls could be sent just before the test too, perhaps by the same equipment that the sonar uses. If the equipment can't broadcast similar calls, maybe a special, lower level sonar sequence could be used that was only used before such tests. SOS in Morse Code? Might be useful to associate another call/sequence with feeding that could attract the dolphins if a ship is sinking.
we do care about living creatures "us".
Jesse: Neither Germany nor Japan could have defeated the US. 4.5 million Germans were sent to the Eastern Front against Russia where the war for Europe was decided. Japan bled out in China for 10 years. The US Navy should be cut 50% as it is expensive and the Imperial Japanese Navy went out of existence in 1945.
The ones who spout history the most while being the most ignorant of it. The Japanese were never a credible threat to invade the United States, and were instead hoping to just damage our Navy enough to keep us out of their "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere." They had neither the resources, nor manpower, to launch a full invasion.
And in regards to the Germans, it was the Soviet Union who bore the brunt of the fighting. Over 80% of German forces were located on the Eastern Front when we finally started doing landings in Italy in 1943, and while I don't discount the efforts made by our veterans then (as it was extremely rough fighting in the hedgerows), it pisses me off when people leave out tidbits to support their bull@!$%# rhetoric. Also, a majority of people living in the Midwest at the time WERE of German descent and probably could speak German, but don't let facts hit you in the face.
And by the way, we knew very little of the impact of sonar technology on marine life at the time. Now that we do, the Navy should hold itself responsible for what happens now and fix the problem. Nature is a system of checks and balances, and when you have whales and dolphins dying off because of human screw-ups, you f*** that system up. So get off your high-horse and start realizing that the Navy is in the wrong and should fix the problem.
Not withstanding the armchair generals and admirals, today's world is filled with advancing technology in every field of endeavor. A balance of some sort, needs to be addressed. The United States has literally, thousands of miles of coastline to try to secure from different threats. The Chinese have developed the capability to produce extremely quite diesel electric subs which makes them hard to detect and track. The littoral zones close to our shores are the most problematic for both the detection of uninvited guests and the use of sonar technologies to detect them. This use of sonar, in conjunction with listening devices which have been installed in critical areas around our shores and on Naval vessels, provide the backbone of our ability to monitor and protect our coasts. Drug cartels have been using submersibles to try and infiltrate our country also. These submersibles could carry more than drug cargo on any one of their trips. I certainly don't know what the answers are but I do know that the use of active sonar technology isn't going away. At least until some other form of technology is advanced which will do away with it totally, by providing a superior form of detecting intruders without transmitting sound waves.
OUR tax dollars at work! The government is a gigantic nightmare, doing things they have no business doing; because WE, the people, do not hold them accountable for their actions!!!
AS usual ignorance and stupidity reign supreme on msnbc.com. The Russians were able to hold off the Germans due to the massive amounts of U.S. aid that was shipped to them. Without the aid, the Germand and Japanese would have linked up. The Germans would have then turned back to England and the world would have been a different place.
The U.S. Navy defeated Japan. Sonar was hugely important and I am sure that in all that fighting and dying, millions of sea animals died. Now Obummer is smiling at himself in the mirror and raking in millions of dollars in campaign funds attempting to get elected for doing nothing. Why do we have 11 aircraft carriers?????
England, France, Australia all have at least one. Japan and other countries should be made to pay for their own defense and the U.S. should sharply cut back on outlays for the military. Get out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Get out of Europe and Nato. They are all big boys in Europe, let them pay for their own defense.
If they want the U.S. to protect them, then pay us for the defense and the U.S. should charge a tax to make a profit on it.
With the reduced armada, (who are we fighting on the high seas today????) then the deaths and damage to sea animals will go down.
If it were up to me, we would pull out of Afghanistan, fence it in, and put people like you in it.
Fa hate Pa
@ JC Rodriguez...Without our Navy assuring that our sea lanes remain open and that our country is protected against our enemies where would our freedoms be. You need to be educated on the past history and know how impotrant our Navy is for the defense of this country. At least they are making an effert to avoid the problem with sonar use as much as possible.
True. But it still all comes down to men who can't get along.
I don't give a sh!t about the defense of any country, least of all the worthless United States, if it impacts on other species and the rest of the world. Call me a tree hugger if you want to, but my heart goes out to these beautiful creatures whose habitat and well-being has been all but destroyed for the conquering drive of mankind.
The oceans do not belong to us. The animals are not our prey or our servants but our brethren and friends. We wouldn't even have these sonar devices had we not studied the communication habits of the sea mammals. But what was it used for? Destruction. Destruction of those who gave us these artificial implementations to further our species' unwarranted industrial supremacy at the expense of all else.
I hope all your submarines and luxury liners do nothing but capsize and get destroyed for what the profit-driven, power-hungry governments have done to our earth. May all of America in its capitalist waste be devoured by Our Mother Earth who they have turned against for the selfish impulses of modern man and machines.
"May all of America in its capitalist waste be devoured......" My but you are a gentle peace loving person.
actually, not all navy vessels use active sonar...we also use passive, you obviously don't know the difference, and even if the united states stopped using active, doesn't mean everyone else would too, so pointing the finger only at our navy would be slightly misguided.
Lorem
Gee, a little animosity there about navies or just the USN? I guess if you are a tree hugger (your words) perhaps you can come up with a more conservative, as in conservation, way to ensure that a "boomer" from anyone of 3 or 4 hostile country's navies could get within striking distance of the thousands of mile of shoreline that define the USA. McCahans theory of establishing sea lines of communication was true in decades earlier as it is today. Where once it was only a 3 mile national limit (due to the range of shipboard cannons) now it is 200 miles because missiles can launch from much further away (500 - 8,000 miles). Basically this used used to protect your freedoms to rave and be a tree hugger and I respect all freedoms, as long as humans are not harmed.
And you live here why? If you went to Mongolia, I'm sure their lifestyle has far less impact on the natural world, but then I imagine you might miss plumbing, electricity, a decent road network, and the local Safeway.
If you don't even care about your own country, why should it care about you?
This is a no brainer. Stop doing this. Our inflated fears and paranoia about other people does not give us license to harm other living things.
No brainer about sums you up.
I agree with Kate.
inflated fears? it is a fact that china and russia are ramping up their naval forces, while we are cutting back ours. it is also a fact that the us navy is the only force keeping the strait of hormuz open with the presence of 2 carrier strike groups, its not as if iran would just back off because someone told them to...
Well Britain wasn't too paranoid about the Falkland Islands off the coast off South America in the early 80s. Who would attack those right? So they pull out forces to reduce expenses. Soon after Argentina invaded. Yeah that's right, Argentina. Go figure.
Thing is, every competent military has a plan to invade/attack almost every other nation they would be capable of. It sucks that these whales and dolphins are being harmed by this and I do believe that they have to make legitimate attempts to not harm them or cause as little impact as possible. However, they still have to train for battle conditions. I guarantee you there is a Russian nuclear sub off the coast of the U.S right now and i'm taking into account that the Cold War has been over for 20 years. China sea tested their first carrier a few months ago and in case you didn't know, there is a certain island off their mainland coast that they want back.
You hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
"No brainer, stop doing this"? Do you even know what sonar is on a submarine, and how essential it is?
"Our inflated fears" - If we had no Navy, Iran would be cutting off the flow of oil through the Strait of Hormuz.
THANK YOU LoremIpsum and Kate515777!
America IS the biggest Bully on this Planet and I don't blame China and Russia for backing Iran! They KNOW Big Oil and Big Business is USING our Military to TRY to TAKE CONTROL of all countries that have vast amounts of Rich Natural Resources! China and Russia will NOT be on their KNEES, nor BEND OVER to Big Oil and Big Business. They are FED UP with our Government, ALLOWING Big Oil and Big Business to USE our military to invade countries, to CONTROL their Oil and Gas, then set up their UNHEALTHY Fast Food Restaurant's, along with PORN, ALCOHOL and DRUGS!
The only reason there are Murderous Drug Cartels is because the DEMAND of the DRUG USER'S and ADDICTS of America! Most SANE and LOGICAL Countries have LEGALIZED these terrible drugs to eliminate the CRIME, and have been SUCCESSFUL, because they legalized the drugs. In America, if MONEY can be made, its the LAST thing they will do! Just as they've made PRISONS, Big Business, therefore, the MORE prisoner's, the more Profits, they ascertain, for CHEAP LABOR!
America, is NO LONGER the example People of other countries aim for. Now, they all fear us, and WHY Russia and China are beefing up their military, for America will NOT be able to INVADE them as they did Iraq, ON A BIG LIE! China and Russia HAVE NUCLEAR POWER, and we can believe, Big Oil and Big Business won't be threatening them with their BULLY INTIMIDATION'S!
Over 65 MILLION Americans are so SHALLOW, whom don't THINK past their noses, to REALIZE, all these LIVING CREATURES, are the REASON we exist! Water, has become MORE SECRET than Oil, WHY, because Big Oil and Big Business have pour too many Toxins and Trash the water ways, in turn, DESTROYING the Mammals that keep our waters clean and drinkable. We're on this course, but over 65 MILLION Americans are too DENSE to figure out why they are having the ailments and cancers they do, and its NOT from 2nd hand smoke from cigarettes!
To Earthie
Sounds like you are an OSW candidate. Anarchy work for you? If so, go where you can "teach the world to sing...." But what if another anarchist dislikes your viewpoint and wants to establish anarchy in your utopia?
Gee, I thought USA has 300,000,000+ as of last census. Does that include on legal residents?
Kate even if we did stop doing it, what's the likelihood other countries will stop too?
Believe me I don't like this either, dolphins are my very favorite creature on earth, but sometimes just like dolphin's do themselves it's about the greater good.
SillyBilly: those islands were claimed by Argentina prior to our arrival there, for starters. But we gave them what for - even after the Americans said it was a 'losing proposition' and that it couldn't be done. Too many losses, though and now a fine mess with the Argentinians and Chileans 'no fly' and no trade tariffs.
Anyroad - there should be something that can be done to clear the effected area of wildlife that would be injured BEFORE the training/exercises are carried out to diminish the impact on the wildlife. That just seems fair in this situation.
Wasn't it the Navy or some branch of it that was figuring out the dolphin language? Somebody was - I wonder if could be used to clear the dolphins from the area?
jack - I suspect that Earthie was referring to you as one of the 65 million (out of 300 million) Americans who are too shallow and can't pick beyond their noses. You did prove her point though.
Congratulations, Shallow Jack!
Earthie - So you will stick up for China, a country who imprisoned a man for four years for protesting forced abortions, then tortured his family? Or Russia, a country that deprived its citizens of their most basic rights for decades during the Cold War?
Believe me, if you hate America so much, LEAVE, and go to a nice place like China. I am sure that your condemnation of government would not end as well there as it would in America.
And oh, I forgot. If you think for a second that China, even with its "beefed up" military could beat the United States, then you clearly do not know what you are talking about. We are at least twenty years ahead of China in military tech. I'd say the only countries equal to United States in military tech are Britain, France, maybe Russia.
you don't think that china has a chance of beating the united states? try again, let's start with no nukes, just because we have them, so do they, and there's mutual destruction if we went that route. also rule out each countries allies(remember ww1 and ww2), and you seem to be overly confident that the us would just crush someone just because their "technology" is less than ours...must've been under a rock during vietnam, iraq, and afganistan...and china just happens to be the largest and most populous country in the world, and their economy also happens to not suck, as in, they have money. also for either side to "win", they'd have to be able to penetrate each others' countries, and just on numbers, they have more. also, they've been taking a lot of our debt, were we to fund that kind of war, you think china would just pay for that too?
But it's not just technology. Our military is trained much, much better than China's, and we have more experience. And in terms of technology, yes, it does matter when you are taking on a state as large as China. And in that department, the US has 12 nuclear powered supercarriers, while China has one old, outdated Soviet carrier that they do not know how to operate.
And in terms of nukes, the sheer number of weapons that the US and China both have would deter any nuclear action. And if China unleashed one nuke on us, we would most likely level a significant part of their country.
BTW, Vietnam was a war fought only on the ground. A war with China would most certainly extend beyond their borders and into the sea.
We cover China's Ass, they throw the money to our war efforts, China gets the Oil, China never gets its hands dirty, we never demand China cease and desist their evil ways.
China Wins. @!$%# the Terrorist distraction.
The current, ten most power ful navies in the world are:
1. U.S. 4th Fleet.
2. U.S. 2nd Fleet
3. U.S. 7th Fleet
4. U.S. 3rd Fleet
5. U.S. 6th Fleet
6. U.S. 3rd Fleet
7. U.K. Royal Fleet
6. Japan
7. South Korea
8. Taiwan
9. India
10. Italy
You could cut the Navy in half and NEVER endanger the US Mainland. I do not suggest doing so, but we could stop killing the Oceans on our part if we wished.
We do not Wish.
America is never going to reduce the size of its navy, as they need it to project power (aka military force) around the globe so that other nations do what the American government wants.
Or as one US navy cpt once said “if the government doesn’t like your policies, you may just find us sailing off you coast line”
Absolutely True, LM. I certainly do not expect to see anything but the continuation of War and Power and Lies to expedite the International Plundering of Resources and People in Order to Keep the U$ #1!!
Onward until The End of The World. Or certainly the End of Mankind.
I guess I need Oil more than the Long Term Future and Clean Environment with a Prosperous Survival of Species! Kill The Whales!!!
<s>
Paradox Defined, with an Amazing Dose of Irony mixed in, to boot.
No wonder about sums you up. "Navy Spook"? Obviously a shill for the gubbermint. You go, Kate.
And "no wonder" about sums you up... "Navy Spook."
Capt. Ahab was the biggest d!ck of them all.
Ahab lives!!!!!!!!!
Ha! Some of you people have a strange way of thinking. What you are saying that civilization sucks and we should all be living in the stone age. Yet you are using modern technology to is post these comments. Yes I agree that we need to protect our wildlfe and nature, but at the same time, live our human lives also.
That is something I do not get about these tree huggers.
They cry about human kind being horrible and mean yet I bet they eat 3 squares a day while most of the world will never see a plate of food for months.
Computer - bought in early 2005, Japanese Sony VAIO. No Apple products other than an older iPod, which I will not replace as I have learned of the Chinese Slave Labor Market which Jobs Inc leads in products produced under inhumane conditions.
Truck - 2006 Tundra Crew Cab, bought in Sept 2005 and paid for cash. I have under 50K mileage on it, recycle my oil(synthetic), combine trips to economize.
Home - Built in 1953, I bought in 1999, have 6 years left on my refinance to a 15 year mortgage, still getting slammed by rising insurance rates on it which cover less and less, despite my many improvements which have made it much more hurricane resistant/safe. Will stop paying them as soon as I can accelerate paying it off, hopefully in thenext 4-5 years.
Utilities - I pay about $70/month avg electric, and $65 for utilities, which go up no matter my conservation.
Do you really not understand that 'tree huggers' also living in this world do so with greater responsibility and compassion than you NeoCon RW Nutjobs?
See. I can just as easily assume you are what I have due to your ignorance shown in one comment.
I just choose to avoid doing so usually, except in this example to maybe help you pull your head out of your opinionated hole in the ground. If that is which hole your head is firmly planted in.
Have a Nice Day!
Remember: To Assume makes an Ass out of u and me!
☺☻☺☻
This is incredibly sad. One of our endangered Southern Resident Killer Whales died recently following Naval exercises (including the use of deafening sonar) in their designated Critical Habitat. The autopsy showed evidence that it died from blast injury, most likely due to a bomb dropped during one of these exercises, one of hundreds legally allowed. There are left than 100 of these magnificent friendly and super intelligent animals left in this population, animals that were here to see the arrival of humans on the continent. Some of them are over 90 years old. Each is known individually since they have been studied since the mid-1970s. People probably think of sonar as being just loud noise that the whales flee from, but it can do irreparable damage to their hearing, which is the main sense they use to navigate and communicate with each other. If any creature deserves protection, it is the magnificent dolphins and whales, who have never harmed us and which are likely the most intelligent animals on earth after humans. Please, I urge you to make a comment opposing this--comments DO make a difference!!
I'm sure the Navy is not intentionally killing marine life. Can it reduce its impact on life in the sea? I sure hope it can and is doing what is possible to that end.
Yes it is. How else are Honeywell and Ratheon going to get even more R&D gov't gravy millions?
This is WRONG.. Humans cannot disrupt the flow of nature and not expect to suffer for it.
Man did not weave the web of life, man is simply a single strand within the web and whatever man does to the web he does to himself
--- Chief Seattle
We have forgotten, in our quest for "security", that all the military might in the world can't protect us from the real enemy. As is often the case, the jester (Pogo?) voiced the truth- we HAVE met the enemy, and he is us. We can only hope that God has mercy on us, as we destroy the planet in our quest for the imaginary safety of military action.
So when are you planning to move into your grass hut prime?
Make that two comments now.
The expensive iron yachts of the US Navy have only been used to terrorize second rate militaries and Third World countries since WW2. It should be cut 50% Monday morning.
"Terrorize" second rate militaries? If we had no Navy, Iran would control the Strait of Hormuz, which would mean no more oil for us.
DOU - why do you ask the countries that we have assisted on humanitarian mission on how terrorizing out yachts are..r
USS Comfort - big mean old ship that it is
Haiti - who was the primary delivery source for relief supplies..I can go on for days on what good that we do...we are not jut for forward projection as you might think
VH Navy, you are right. Many of our ships are used for humanitarian purposes quite frequently. Our amphibious assault ships were used extensively to supply Haiti with relief surprise, and one of our Nimitz class carriers assisted the Japanese after the tsunami and nuclear crisis last year.
We do much good in the World utilizing our Military. Almost enough to make up for the Evils procurred. And the Troops on Mission are not the Bad Guys.
They Bravely folow Orders.
Any Orders.
I'd rather be forced to speak German or Japanese than watch sea mammals wash ashore with bloody eardrums caused by sonar pinging. Call me a lazy tree hugging lib, sure, but look around you. You need to learn some degree of Spanish for basic jobs these days and the educated Americans are all travelling to and learning Chinese out of survival and fear. So, where have all these 20th century world wars gotten us? even less freedom today than 1945. So stop punishing whale and dolphin pods in the Pacific, Atlantic, Australia and beyond. We know the world Navies are doing these atrocities and not being held accountable. We are all headed toward serfdom or slavery again anyway. At least let nature decide what survives instead of some naval power.
Agree we need to be more sensitive to our marine brethren (mammals), but turning us into a "second rate/TW" military doesn't really sound like an option unless of course we want to be terrorized.
Also if Lorem Ipsum and his ilk would just stop reproducing we might be able to safely reduce our military by that 50%.
The only appropriate response to Lorem Ipsum comes courtesy of, "A Few Good Men.":
Jeff 498218
Excellent quote, another pertinent quote from the past is Teddy Roosevelt - a conservationist and supporter of a strong defense - 1 is walk softly but carry a big stick and the other is the quote from "The man in the Arena" basically to sum that up is those timid souls that have never been in the arena do not have the luxury to criticize those that do stand in the arena for the timid souls protection
If selling out Morals, Truth and Discipline are your thing, work your way up into Commander Ranks or Political Office.
Interesting...Am I a hypocrite for supporting the Sea Shepherd when studies have shown that we may have harmed more whales than the Japanese have? Maybe so.
Other question comes to mind: How efficient is our military? It sucks a lot of money out of our budget, yet it seems to me that is it one giant dinosaur that has come loose and that we can't control anymore. Also when compared to military entities of Britain, Australia and so forth that are highly "tech", it seems that what we are achieving now could be achieved with a lot less and much more efficiently if we reduced it and used the money to make it more "up to date".
Let us ask our foes to stop using the oceans against us. When they agree and provide proof, then perhaps we can consider not usining thids technology. Untill then, use the technology and protect us.
Last week, I heard that dolphins were killed (drugged) by partiers during a "rave party" at an aquarium in Switzerland; now THIS: not much difference!
This is different.
These dolphins were unintentionally potentially injured during training excersizes by the military that ensures your freedom.
The dolphins killed at that "rave party" were intentionally killed by careless idiots who have no respect for them.
2 million cases of 'temporary' deafness in mammals that rely on their hearing to catch food.
That's 2 million starving until when and if their hearing comes back.
Immagine the pain involved in a sonic blast strong enough to deaffen you.
The navy should find an alternative method of training and detection.
On a sub underwater, SONAR is your only option (unless maybe the Photonics mast on Virgina class subs can be used for tracking, IDK). I am not happy that we are harming marine mammals either, but we can't just slow our Navy to a halt.
One idea to minimize the harm done to the animals would be to conduct some sort of underwater survey to determine if a significant number of animals are in the area before commencing a training operation with active sonar there.
From some of the comments I am reading I see that there are a lot of us that have, or are serving in our military. Just to think we have or would put our lives on the line for the freedom and rights of these people that bad mouth us and our service.
GO NAVY .
Critical times hard to deal with will, be here. He will ruin those ruining the earth.
I would NEVER criticize our military, EVER, however they need to spend whatever it takes to recify this horrendous problem,,,,These are after all, Gods creatures,,,,,as are we!
Jesse Masser:
The people I served with aren't the ones who would post on these boards that anyone owes them a damn thing, especially regarding the exercise of their freedom of speech. Didn't the military teach you not to take things personally? Didn't they tell you that those that would hurl insults would do so at the uniform; that not everyone would agree with every mission and every objective that you might take part in? Mine did.
I don't agree with some of the statements on this board - those who would throw away their very humanity - over the preservation and sacredity (or something) of wildlife, but SOMEBODY has to be like that or there would be no protectors of those things.
I accept that they have a right to the freedom of thought and belief that I fought for (even when their beliefs do not match mine). But to lord my 'service' over them (as if they are less than me) when we don't see eye to eye would be a mark that I just didn't understand what was fought for in the first place. We're warriors - not dictators or celebs. You don't have to like it, just keep it in mind.
Very good point and well taken. My comment was directed at those bad mouthing the Navy and my country. Guess I am just to much in love with my country and my Marine Corps.
The Department of Defense has a mandate to protect the world, but at what expense? Whales sing songs to each other and they protect their young only to end up on the dinner plates, or they get killed by the thousands. When natural earth reaches the pollution tipping-point and when the species genomes become so depleted, the the grand-children of Homo sapiens can expect a mass-extinction event.