What's the problem? That we actually call our enemy by name? That we train our military to do whatever is necessary to protect Americans?

This PC absurdity has got to stop. Do you think the Muslims that have killed Americans are STILL trying to kill us care about conforming with the Geneva Convention? Should we demand they remove all anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Semitic content from their "training" programs? Should we demand an apology every time they torture and behead/dismember one of our soldiers? What do we do if they burn a bible, go on a rampage like they do? Why aren't their leaders being tried for war crimes? I don't even hear anyone asking for that to be done. But American leaders, American soldiers? Sure, let's prosecute them for war crimes. Let's screw over the CIA agents while we're at it.

Compared to what they do to our POWs, the hazing-type activities at Abu Ghraib are child's play. A lot of people in this country need to grow up and get real. The fantasy land/utopia you think you live in doesn't exist and never will. This foolishness is going to get us all killed. All because somebody felt a little offended. Gimme a break.

@ CEO2NV2 - So... Sufi's are better all dead? Dervishes too? How about B'hai's?

You DO understand that under the general label of "Islam" are several dozen different sects that are so far apart, they kill each other as heretics? Or like Sufi's, just die from the Sh'ia?

Does the Christians of Westboro Baptist Church speak for all Christians?

Remember the centuries of total war in Europe between Protestants and Catholics?

CEO2NV2, you are clueless if you think all Muslims are alike. Your naivety will kill probably not you, but scores of innocents.

Do you get to "channel" Oliver Cromwell who supposedly said "Kill them all, God will know his own" and burn the whole city?

I served for 21 years (USN - 1972-1993) to defend the Constitution from all enemies - For you to compromise the freedom of religion that our country was founded on, looks like you qualify as an "enemy".

Islam teaches that no muslim should make friends nor trust ever any non-muslim. Explain to me why we should trust them as far as we could throw them, given not only their theology, but history of violence, oppression, xenophobia, and suppression of the rights of human beings. Kudos to this Professor who isn;t afraid of playing out a very very realistic scenario in his class of our future military leaders.

Weinstein is a seditionist, pure and simple.

the option of "taking war to a civilian population," in disregard of the Geneva Convention of 1949, and possibly destruction of Mecca and Medina, Islam’s holiest sites.

Screw the Geneva Convention- we are the only people who abide by it, to our loss. The PC libs who advocate surrender as our first option have no interest in our way of life. They'd be supporting the Nazis during WWII, the Japanese bombing Pearl Harbor. Everything is our fault, just ask them.

Their argument is thus rendered invalid, and should be ignored for the peurile, defeatist crap it is.

Obama said: "Islam is not the enemy of America". We wish it were true, because America IS the enemy of Islam.

CAT- learn some history: the Crusades were started to protect pilgrims going to the Holy Land, stupid as that might have been. That was the thing to do at the time, to be pious. Muslims attacked the Christians for loot and slaves.

For clarification ... I do NOT really advocate getting rid of Christians. I am trying to point out the hypocrisy in those who say that Islam is a violent religion. I am trying to show that they are just as guilty of the violence AS A RELIGION as the extremist Muslims are. Both Islam and Christianity were conceived as religions of PEACE. Muslims revere Christ as a PROPHET. Really. They do.

I am for tolerance in and for all peace-based religions. Regardless of whether they started in a desert or whether they started in the groves and on the prairies. We all believe in the same code of morality. Really. We do.

Don't lie.

Don't cheat.

Don't steal.

Don't murder.

Don't harm your own spirit by coveting things that you don't have.

Take time to pray or meditate to relax your body and expand your soul.

Are these NOT the basis for every single moral code out there? Does it REALLY matter whether they are codified in "Ten Commandments" or the phrase "An Ye Harm None, Do As Ye Will" (which includes harming YOURSELF)? Really? Think about it.

awesomealex, how can you say that all Muslims are the enemy? Are we not helped by Muslim allies all over the world? Are we at war with countries like Turkey, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc? Do you propose declaring war on one quarter of the worlds population?

You keep telling yourself that there's a difference between one group of Muslims over another. Your naivety will kill you

Are you asserting that all xtians are like Westboro Baptist?

Your naivete is galling, your ignorance profound. Best of luck with the real world, you will obviously need it.

I am at odds with this. On the one hand, Islam does specifically command its adherents to subjugate non-Muslims by any means necessary. On the other hand, all religions have the capacity to evolve-- there are moderate Muslims who see the violence and deception advocated in the Koran as incompatible with the modern world. Does that make them apostates? Many would say so, but they're also the future of Islam-- if not, then the world will (eventually) embroil itself in a war exactly as this professor (?) has described. So, as I said, I am at odds. I would like to believe that Islam has the capacity to change, just as Christianity has (see "The Great Enlightenment" for more info-- an event that the Muslim world has yet to experience), but it is also possible that Islam remains a violent, petulant philosophy that defies modernity. So I guess the real question is this: does that possibility warrant a preemptive curriculum to prepare for that potentiality?

As for those that are comparing Christianity with Islam, I just want to point out that there is a significant difference in their histories. Violence in the name of Christianity was largely a development that was contrary to the teachings of Jesus and has (by and large) been recognized by the majority of Christians as examples of men distorting the power of the church to achieve worldly gains. By contrast, Islam's history of violence is commanded by Mohammed and is a requirement of all "true" Muslims-- though it is only to be tolerated against "infidels" and apostates. I think that the difference between Jesus and Mohammed is stark-- one was a pacifist who healed the sick and allowed himself to be crucified, while the other was a warlord who raided caravans and slaughtered whole cities. Those distinctions are pertinent when making comparisons-- violence in the name of Christianity is essentially a hypocritical act; violence in the name of Islam is worship.

Disclaimer: I am not a Christian nor a Muslim. I would most readily identify myself as an agnostic, though I have some peculiar philosophies that I hold to be truths, so I am not entirely faithless-- though I hasten to add that I do not particularly care for any organized religions. They tend to be the most corrupted.

Everyone is always whining about the military and how politically incorrect it is. Being a soldier is a lot different then being a cashier or stock broker or most other normal occupations. I don't want a soldier protecting my freedom that has to stop and think in a crisis if it's offensive to others. That's not their job. If you have a problem with how the military works, don't enlist. I would hate for those people that bit%h about the military to have to defend themselves should the Army, Navy, Airforce, and Marines not be around to do it for them. The military is no place for thin skinned, pc whiners.

I think it's interesting how many people have said that Muslims are barbaric and horrible, yet advocate that we act the same way...

Jrto - please allow me to explain why almost every word of your post was wrong.

If they have read/heard and understood their book and believe in it, they are IN FACT our enemies.

As it turns out, a lot of religious texts tell you to do some creepy @!$%# when taken literally. Read Leviticus. You'll see what I mean.

You want proof? Look at their F*CKED UP countries, and tell me if that's the kind of people you want here.

Actually, Turkey looks kinda nice. Parts of Indonesia, too.

Political correctness will be the downfall of all civilized society.

Yes, because Rome's problem was that they always half-assed their wars. Do you know what happened to Carthage? Or Spartacus's army?

It IS a fact the the quran teaches them that the goal of their religion is to spread out and conquer non-muslims by any means necessary. They ARE liars, hypocrits, and murderers.

No. No, it does not. By the way, what is the goal in life of Evangelical's? Where does that word even come from?

Look up the muslim populations in Europe and see how "peaceful" they are once they are in bigger groups.

Have you ever been to Europe? Do you have any idea how low the homicide rates are in Western Europe? Now go to New Orleans, or Detroit, or DC.

They can do whatever they want, in THEIR OWN COUNTRY. And BTW if they are so peaceful and tolerant, why don't you look up how many Christian churches, hindu temples, and jewish temples there are in those countries.

Do you know what the Hagia Sophia is? Its the big building with the four minartets that in every picture of Istanbul. It was a church. When the Ottoman Turks took over, they made it a mosque by covering up the Christian iconography. You know what it is now? A museum. Complete with restored original iconography.

And BTW if they are so peaceful and tolerant, why don't you look up how many Christian churches, hindu temples, and jewish temples there are in those countries.

Google "Coptic".

Do you have that little faith in the American military? You don't think that they can defend the United States AND not resort to total barbarism? Are you that afraid?

Oh, it's NOT our military that I have little faith in, it's the pinheads running it. Trust me - believe me when I say this - if I were in charge, the war on terror would have ended on 9/12/2001.

earthgirl--maybe your parents should've used contraceptives!

@Hamjam

Shows how LITTLE you know.......you didn't actually prove anything.

The messed up parts in the bible btw, are usually an example of what not to do. Or in the case of Gods punishment, its to keep people in line.

I'm talking about TRUE christians.......not sectarian christians who use the bible to their own ends....i do disagree very heavily with what people do "in the name of God." When it furthers their own ends.

Did you know this isn't a primarily christian country? Atheists are all over, they have no moral bindings to prevent them from violence.....that is why we have so much violence here.

If you believe in the bible, you CANT justify killing unless in self-defence.

Hagia Sophia?............they TURNED IT INTO A MOSQUE........then back to a museum.....IS IT AN ACTIVE CHURCH? NO!!!......of course they will do stuff to appear to be friendly to us, if they just came right out and said F*ck all of you, we wouldn't send them all the aid that we do. It says right in the Koran to LIE AND DECEIVE the infedel(us).

And YES, spreading their religion through any means necessary IS their goal. You obviously havent read the KORAN....so STFU

Nice attempt to counter facts with bullsh*t......but rose scented crap is still crap.

What's most sad about this course is that it had to exist in the first place. The military has the awesome responsibility to identify, examine and defeat ANY AND ALL threats to the United States of America. It's sad, but the radicalization of Islam is indeed a clear and present danger to the United States and the Western world. Terrorist groups operate within Muslim countries with impunity. Even worse, the "official" governments of many Muslim countries support, finance and arm these groups (look at Saudi Arabia's connection to Bin Laden, Pakistan's and Afghanistan's harboring of Al-Qaeda and the many, many Muslim countries that support Hezbollah). George W. Bush really isn't given enough credit for identifying the "Axis of Evil". In doing so, he put all Muslim nations on alert that the United States will hold these governments responsible for the actions of their radicalized citizens or those out-of-the-closet terrorists who operate within their borders.

If the military must prepare a nuclear retaliation plan that includes the entire annihilation of the world as we know it, then I don't see the particular harm in preparing our military to confront radical Islam, religious fundamentalism that has already claimed the lives of over 3,000 men and women on September 11, 2001 (not including the scores of other attacks on U.S. interests and allies). The work of the military will always be distasteful to some, but let them do what most aren't capable of doing for themselves. Thankfully, the Cold War ended without nuclear annihilation. Be hopeful that "jihad" will go the same path, but be prepared in the event that it doesn't.

Cat and his/her ilk really need to stop pointing to the Centuries old crusades. Besides done to protect pilgrims as said on here, Islam took over and ruled Spain for awhile and have always been trying to conquer Europe. They are not innocent victims. Only now with all the pc stuff and immigration, they are probably closer now than ever! But perhaps if Cat is Muslem, this whole point is moot.

Just some FACTS:

muslims: blow up schools with suicide vests

-mutilate women for punishment

-killed 3,000 people right here in the name of their "god"

-are responsible for more religious death than all other religions combined

-are told to lie, deceive, but never truly befriend non-muslims

-drive all religions from their countries. Christians and Jews can technically stay but have to pay heavy taxes for their faith. They are "taxed" into submission.

Christians: Send aid to foriegn countries regardless of culture, religion, or race.

-are told to Love their enemies (advice not always followed, but it is still what they are supposed to do).

-Let muslims preach in their(christian) lands

Ever wonder why christians live in fertile, temperate climates? And Israel turned into an Oasis AFTER the Jews settled in 1948.

Wonder why muslims are stuck in the sandy rathole they are in?

GOD rewards the GOOD.

Yup, that's christianity for you.

Bigot, meet mirror.

Seems to me you could stand to take your own advice. But don't look at it too hard, okay Daryl?? It just might crack on you.

Did you know this isn't a primarily christian country? Atheists are all over, they have no moral bindings to prevent them from violence.....that is why we have so much violence here.

Sorry jrt077. I have to call BS with this one. Would you like to document the high level of violence perpetrated by Atheists in this country...take your time...I'll wait. On the other hand, would you like a list of violent acts perpetrated by self proclaimed Christians?

This is a course for theory and what if's. It also shows military tactics used in the past as well as if and how they're applicable now.

That being said, the moment they started referring to the enemies as Muslims, they turned it from theoretical to real life against a certain group of people. Stupid ass move on their part.

Just more of the Neo-cons' legacy, brought to you courtesy of Bush and Cheney, through the machinations of Rove, Armey and other GOPinheads, implemented by the likes of Wackenbush and Blackwater. Scream, you conservative nuts, no one buys it anymore.

Nice try jrto77...using the typical neo-conservative ploy of reflecting your shortcomings on the other party is so old everyone recognizes it. So, the KKK are Atheists now. By the way, there is a much higher percentage of minorities who identify themselves as Christians than whites identifying themselves as Christians. So your raciest crap won't fly either.

What a strange statement: "The biggest problem is how people confuse christianity with acts done by christians"

Who's showing dumbassness? ROFLMAO!

I agree that the anti-Muslim content of this course is a bit shocking and should be toned down so as not to give the impression that all Muslims are evil, but this course is taught in the Joint Forces Staff College which is generally for field grade officers in staff positions. These are big boys who should be intelligent enough to distinguish between anti-Muslim propaganda and the truth about Islam. If they are not intelligent enough to tell the difference, they should not be officers in our military to begin with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWPvuAg4HjI&feature=related

open heart..., or bleeding heart? Europe and Canada are already facing the reality...

Political correctness will be our downfall. If we do not know or understand the enemy then we are powerless to deal with him except to cower and concede to all demands. Our military needs to know about Islam and Islamic terrorists. Period.

Sorry, MSNBC, but the "outrage" has been misplaced. The outrage should be, and continue to be, directed toward a religion that sanctifies the murder of innocents simply because they are "non believers". If you wish to turn that into a dissertation on the merits of PC, then you are simply another potential advocate for their murderous cause!

Mickey-1983943 - They should not be taught this at all! Did you bother to read the slides? They are comparing potential action against population centers similar to what was done to Dresden, Tokyo and Hiroshima. Millions of innocents fire bombed to "get back" at a very small minority of radicals.

Is this really what America has devolved to...brute, totalitarian aggression worldwide in order to maintain our dominance? If so, this is not the country I defended from the Soviets for over 20 years. And it's not the country my father defended against the Nazis.

"This is representative of a larger more sinister force which is fundamentalist Christianity."

As opposed to the completely peaceful force which is fundamentalist Islam???????????????

Perhaps he should have given that comment a little more thought before calling 'fundamentalist Christianity' a 'sinister force' when compared with Islam.

Hate on Muslims? THAT'S LIKE HATING ON REPUBLICANS! Its the same religion, after all, faux conservatives who call themselves Tea Partiers who really want big government and the Muslim Religion.

I mean, the Democrats are Commies, but at least we know they have no religion. Republicans keep faking Christianity while reading the Koran.

ROY WILSON-336103 - As far as I'm concerned ANY form of religious fundamentalism is sinister and bears close watching.

Ritdog - I've never met one of those "Pc-Libs" who advocate surrrnder as a first option. Mustr be in yhur imagination. Or are you one of the ultra lightwights who whine about "Bowing TOurs? "Kenyan" Moooslem" etc. I'm glad folks like you represent the oppposition as a dimwittted disorganized oppponet is bettter than no oppponent at alll. Keep up the good work. It must be nice for you to have someone to hate alll the time for no reaosn. It savs any brainpower you might have in reserve, I'm sure. I betr you even have a clever/dopey name for the President like OBOWma or something, RIght?

Ritdog, learn some history? Really? The Crusades were NOT started as protecting the pilgrims going to the Holy Land. That was the Knights Templar. The Crusades were started as a way to "reclaim" the Holy Land from the "INFIDEL" - ie the Muslims who ALSO revere the same Holy Land. The Dome of the Rock which was built upon the ruins of the Second Jewish Temple was built because the Muslims believe that it is from that spot that Mohammed ascended into heaven.

http://history-world.org/crusades.htm

In 1095 an assembly of churchmen called by Pope Urban II met at Clermont, France. Messengers from the Byzantine Emperor Alexius Comnenus had urged the pope to send help against the armies of Muslim Turks. On November 27 the pope addressed the assembly and asked the warriors of Europe to liberate the Holy Land from the Muslims. The response of the assembly was overwhelmingly favorable. Thus was launched the first and most successful of at least eight crusades against the Muslim caliphates of the Near East.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04543c.htm

The Crusades were expeditions undertaken, in fulfilment of a solemn vow, to deliver the Holy Places from Mohammedan tyranny.

http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?historyid=ab54

In March 1095 the pope, Urban II, is holding a council of his bishops at Piacenza. It is attended by ambassadors from Constantinople. When the pope allows them to address the assembly, they make a passionate appeal for Christian soldiers to come and help the Byzantine emperor, Alexios I, in his struggles against theTurks. Everyone is impressed.

This seems to have been a seminal moment in inspiring the pope with an ambitious new idea. In November of the same year, at another council (this time at Clermont), Urban takes the issue a crucial step further. Word is spread that on November 27 he will make a great announcement. A platform is set up in a field outside the city gate. A large crowd assembles. The pope rises to address them.

He describes a pitiful state of affairs in the holiest places of Christendom, now in the hands of the Turks. Pilgrims are persecuted and even prevented from reaching the shrines. He urges Christians, rich and poor alike, to march east to recover Jerusalem. He contrasts the poverty and squabbling of life in Europe with an image of a promised land of prosperity and peace. He even offers a new inducement - a plenary indulgence to all who take part. (An indulgence saves the sinner some of the pain of Purgatory, with a plenary one promising greater remission.)

This is not about "being PC" or "WAKE UP PEOPLE" or "know your enemy" or "Muslims are all bad" or any of the other stupid idiotic moron loser phrases that a bunch of you are posting on here. Funny how much you sound like that jack-tard in Norway who shot a bunch of kids. What this is about is the rule of law, and genocide is a war crime. We have executed and imprisoned people for committing such crimes, including our own service members. What this course has done is advocate and teach breaking the law, which under the UCMJ is a crime. An Article 15 is way too low for anyone involved in this, they all need court martial, reductions in rank, GOMARs, a stretch at Levenworth, and dishonorable discharges.

American cities are legit targets as are American civilians throughout the entire world and in the air but muslim cities and civilians are not? Any American president should feel free to respond in kind to another attack on NYC or any other American city. War becomes much more dangerous when combatants try to limit it. It's simple you win when the enemy can't defend off your attacks and can't sustain the causalities. Nazi Germany and militaristic Japan did not see the errors of their ways and repent. We kicked the @sses and then kicked them some more until they were helpless. When the average life expectancy for all Al-Qaeda leaders is six months or less we win. Sooner or later we will have to deal with the Saudi Princes. They are the ones really spreading the hate. King Fahd Complex for the Printing of the Holy Qur'an is a printing plant located in Medina, Saudi Arabia that publishes the Qur'an in Arabic and other languages.The company produces about 10 million copies a year. It has 1,700 employees. It has published 55 different translations of the Qur’an in 39 languages. Some of those Qur'ans include interpretations that call for the destruction of Israel, Christians and the West.

"raised the option of "taking war to a civilian population,"... The course materials admit that the actions and views included will not be seen as "politically correct.""

So naive, pathetic liberals are now insisting that war must be "politically correct"... somehow I bet their minds would change when they are being prepped by some muslims for their own televised beheading for simply being an infidel.

P.S.

When MSNBC uses "outrage" in a headline, you know it simply another liberal whining point that the vast majority of Americans disagree with.

Trust me - believe me when I say this - if I were in charge, the war on terror would have ended on 9/12/2001.

This is what we call blowing smoke up peoples asses.

Tough talk over the Internet does not make you a war general. Talk like this comes from someone with no combat experience.

Do tell though how you would have ended terrorism in a single day.

@Ol-DOC

People who call themselves Christian do not speak for or necessarily represent true christianity as is intended in the bible.

If you can't wrap your head around it then i feel sorry for you. If you need help in basic literacy and critical thinking just let me know.

I can call myself purple but that doesnt mean i am.

Christianity is found in the BIBLE.

But nice try....countering facts with crap suits you well

Oh yeah, btw Nice try to make a non-partisan topic a partisan one.....you half-literate, retarded sheeple of a person.

I'm neither a republican nor democrat, God was AGAINST people appointing leaders to lead them.

Your ability to only think in terms of partisanship just points out your obvious lack of critical thinking skill, and obvious lack of real intelligence. Both sides are idiots.

And no ol-doc, the kkk arent christian, theyre idiots.

And when i say "The biggest problem is how people confuse christianity with acts done by christians"

I mean many things stupid people do they try to justify in the name of Christianity. Which means it's not a christian act, it's a stupid one. When said act was carried out, it was most likely very much against the bible's teachings.

This country is going to rip itself apart- it's just a matter of time.

And all over religion. How sad. We should get rid of all of it now.

It is ok that our enemies teach hatred and destruction to my culture. Their Madrass' teach that killing the US and our allies are what their God wants. So that is ok. Another double standard by the world. I am positive that this course material is in case we are under constant attack here and abroad. The US doesn't want to destroy all Muslims and their culture. Just wish more Muslims would turn against the true enemy. Their own kind that are causing this type of problem. There are reasons why the US targets Muslims. They are outspoken about their will to destroy my country. They have attacked us and we should not just let it happen. We have a right to protect ourselves. Maybe if all of Islam would stand up to those who perpetrate these murderous acts, then the world can live peacefully.

@stonedog34

yes, because ignorant self-serving atheism is obviously the way too go (sarcasm)

Funny how some people think they are above everything

@jrto77

People who call themselves Christian do not speak for or necessarily represent true christianity as is intended in the bible.

I have to laugh at you, because there is really no other response. You apparently profess to know what a "real" Christian is, yet you certainly don't reflect it in your posts. Between your thinly disguised profanity (VERY thinly), name calling and intolerance ... you are the total antithesis of what a "real" Christian is SUPPOSED to be. BTW: That's known as hypocrisy!

You have NO IDEA what is "intended in the bible".

nice try beth, but not a very good one.

If you would read all my posts you would have read the parts where i said we shouldn't go kill muslims, we should leave them be over there, but do not let them spread their cult here.

And if your only response is too laugh it just shows you have no basis for an actual response.

Did i say I was perfect? no, true christians know that nobody is perfect including themselves.

You don't know what i know, what i think, or what i do.

I am against islam not because i "hate brown people" or other cultures. I hate THEIR culture for trying to actively destroy mine, and everyone elses who isnt theirs.

Yes people are often hypocrits.....me included, but i try not to be, especially where it counts. Its called humility, but i dont sit idly by and let people advocate things like islam when they are, in reality, spreading the acceptance of a truly hateful culture.

So no, i'm not the "total antithesis of a real christian"

Your just so overcome by hate for me right now that you feel the need to speak out against me, some of it may be justified, i admit i don't always have control over my insults(and i should).

And as for my comment you quoted, there is nothing wrong with it, its the truth. Many people in their self-righteousness claim to do things in the name of christianity, things that are forbidden in the bible. The point is to try to keep yourself in check and aspire to be perfect.

The large problem is that Politicians are continuously trying to mediate between Religious Theoracies. This simply cannot be done when one of the Religion's bottom line is "Convert or Die". There is simply no way around that ideology other than to convert or Mooslums will kill you.

On 9/11 President bush said that We Americans are now at war with all Terriorist and (get this) all countries that harbor or support the Terriorist.

The funny thing is though I was at school on the University of Wisconsin Campus where all the students on campus was asked to come for a memorial gathering. Whilde there, the liberal professors and representatives of the college told the students that America was to blame for being attacked and that we should have compassion for the killers. I was shocked beyond speech and many of the students left in pure disgust. I mention this because it illustrates the mixed messages we get from the liberal media in regards to what it means to be American.

We were attacked and are still being attacked at every opportunity both from the world and from our own politicians that we should be able to trust.(president)

The bottom line is that we all know that Islam is, by their own definition, our sworn enemies to the death. Do we all come to terms with that and fight them as enemies or do we wait until they decide to have their Jihad?

The military College trains our soldiers to fight our enemies. There is no room for political niceness in war or being trained for war. Forget political correctness and if you see a roach , step on it.

Oh and Beth, since your a woman i would hope you off all people would be against being made to wear a veil at all times in public. And against having your face mutilated if it fell off. I pray you never have to go what those women go through over there.

jrt077

yes, because ignorant self-serving atheism is obviously the way too [sic] go (sarcasm)

LOL That's funny. The most ignorant people I have ever met are religious folks.

Funny how some people think they are above everything

Not everything. Just religion, and the tiny minded pukes who push it.

@stonedog

yes, because you know so much. Did you know that this country was founded on christian morals? Many of the freedoms today, and in europe, were founded on christian morals.

Do you know christian groups all over the world today help fight famine, disease, and injury caused by war?

Do you know what societies were founded by atheism? Communism and facism. Both were self-serving, holding themselves to no higher-morals.

And the most ignorant person you've ever met probably looks back right at you in the mirror, whether you know it or not.

BTW, The most tiny minded people in the world are atheists, who believe people are just sacks of meat with no higher purpose. Morals don't come from nature, by definition nature would have ruled out morals, which are directly at odds with survival more often than not.

It is not the purpose of the military to be 'sensitive'. You want sensitive go join the Peace Corp.

@daryl-2183015

"Jeff from INdy, pretty much describes how I feel about American evangelical christians."

"Bigot, meet mirror" to you too daryl-2183015. If you have such feelings toward any religion, including the Atheist religion, you are a bigot.

Peace to all here

Thank you jrt077 for showing everyone what I mean about religious folks being ignorant.

Did you know that this country was founded on christian morals?

Yep, and we have come a long ways since then. We now have freedom of speech, freedom of religion, and all men and women are truly beginning to be treated equally. Things aren't perfect, but they are getting better. I for one am glad we didn't stick with our 'christian foundation'.

Do you know what societies were founded by atheism? Communism and facism.

Time for you to go back to school. Neither of those forms of government was 'founded by atheism'. You have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about.

And the most ignorant person you've ever met probably looks right back at you in the mirror, whether you know it or not.

LOL No, I don't have your picture on my mirror. Sorry!

The rest of your post shows you know nothing about atheists. And those morals that you would like to attribute to your disgusting little cult (a following of people taking after another MAN [jesus]- that's the definition of cult, look it up) actually came from the ancient Greeks (Plato/Socrates), which was well before your nauseating practice raised it's ugly head.

Laughable that so many demonize Christianity over some aberrations of history, the truth often being fleeting to them in their quest to find the few examples of how Christianity is so very bad. The sickness is that these same people are the champions of Muslims and other religions who would gladly see them punished as their first order of business if they were ever to gain power.

I love when people use the Crusades as their anti-Christian selling point. Never will they admit that some of the true reasons that knights called themselves to arms on behalf of the church was because the hordes of Islam had attacked the Holy Land first. Never would they admit that the Muslim armies were twice the warmongers the Christians were and often laid to waste entire populations and cultures they came across that wouldnt bow to their will.

The next pool of vomit that I hear is how Christians killed so many innocents during the Salem Witch Trials. In actuality, I believe the total number of alleged "witches" that were put to death in Salem was actually around 12. More people died in a single week from the flu and difficult child birth in the northeast US than were put to death in the Salem Witch Trials over the course of several years.

Laughable still is any connection any feels they need to make between Catholic Priests who had to undertake a vow of celibacy and molested altar boys and Evangelical Christians. There is NO correlation and your link is so weak it almost doesnt deserve mentioning. Its obvious when you try to make this link that you know very little about your subject matter and simply try to "lump" Christianity into a neat little package so you have something to whine about.

Sure there are exceptions and some Christians are complete aholes. Big deal. There are some non-Christians, atheists, Buddhists I know of that are just as bad if not worse. The fact of the matter is that if the bible is followed to the letter as a guide, especially the New Testament, it is a peaceful, loving path to our creator. The Quran on the other hand, especially the Haddith, is quite the opposite but all you libtards will go on protecting it right up until you bring them into some semblance of power and then you will all truly be sorry. Their primary motto and one that they all eventually have to face as believers of Mohammad, is if your neighbor is an infidel you have two choices.......CONVERT THEM OR KILL THEM.

As a former Marine, combat veteran with training through SERE A and B courses, deployment in some not so nice places, I am conflicted by this issue.

I'm also a die hard social liberal and not a bible thumping Baptist. Just a lapsed Baptist. On every other issue I try to see reason and use critical thinking to reach a conclusion. Certainly the far right Evangelicals in this country have gotten under my skin with their bigoted dogma.

But I have to admit in this issue, I ere toward the Lt. Col's sentiments and the sentiments of the course. For every extremist anti-Zionist, anti-gay, anti-black, anti-other "christian" there are mountains of people decrying their words and actions. This is simply not the case within Islam. The Mullahs and radicals have a disproportionate say and the so-called moderates that don't avail themselves of flight keep quiet in the eaves.

Furthermore, this Medieval style Jihadist version of Islam is gaining, not losing steam in the modern world. It is a patriarchal religion that teaches domination and the eradication of the "other" in the most extreme terms and a billion people follow it with a blind determinism that is unsettling to anyone on the outside.

And quite simply, even the most extreme right leaning born agains wouldn't conceive of flying planes into buildings, their random attacks of pro-choice doctors notwithstanding.

I know all about western colonialism, the politics and economy of oil, and on and on....but the simple fact is Islam more than any other religion is one of domination, control, adherence and frankly hate of the "other".

Finally, not to put to fine a point on it, 9/11 achieved its goal. It didn't awaken the sleeping dragon so much as poke a hill of fire ants. This is the only issue where my friends on the right and the left are in relative accord. Islam will never be able to live peacefully with "the other".

This is about military training, not about whether one religion is right, or another. They don't have time to go into the intricacies of Islam or the Qu'ran. Before the kids get deployed, they are shown a stereotype of the enemy, and if he poses a threat, the rules of engagement apply. That simple.

When the US soldiers without Bibles were stationed in Saudi Arabia to protect that seventh century barbaric, desert mindset and bigoted ruler with 5000 princes and princesess, why did not these very people scream?

Are they paid agents of Saudis and co?

For all the big talkers who say Christians are the enemy...remember those words when you stand before God, and you cant change your underwear you just soiled. If you do forget, dont worry, He will play it back for you.

The quote, "they hate us for our freedom," comes to mind. No, they hate us for our stupid.

Bea-

Jeff do not let the libs get ya down YOU ARE RIGHT! Know Your Enemy!!

Yours is the most ironic post I've read so far. I would bet a month's pay that you do not know and have never known even one Muslim.

Most Muslims are exactly like most Christians in that they were indoctrinated from birth into the culture of a religion that they relate to in the same automatic, unthinking way most Americans relate to Christianity. In other words, just like most Christians, they don't give Islam or Allah a thought until a loved one dies or they suffer some horrible adversity--then they turn to God for strength until the next time.

As for the Qur'an, they "believe" in it exactly like Christians "believe" in the Bible. If you're such a good Christian, why aren't you making bombs to blow up your local New Age store? "Thou shalt not suffer a Witch to live," you know. But can you do that if "Thou shalt not kill?" Faced with these endless contradictions--of which both the Qur'an and the Bible are rife--normal Muslims do the same thing normal Christians do. They ignore it and behave like they were raised to behave. And guess what? Their momma's teach them the same values our momma's taught us.

I have lived among Muslims in an Arab country, for an extended time-not as a 2-week tourist. Our media never covers the stories of the huge number of Muslims who are going about their daily business, living normal lives. They are no different from you and me. Some are obnoxious bigots, some are dedicated pacifists, some are psychopaths. American media gives all its attention to the psychopaths. When it tries to show normal, average Muslims--as in the All-American Muslims reality show--the backlash results in a national uproar.

You are supporting the massacre of people who never have and never would do anything to you. People who would welcome you into their home, treat you like royalty, and love to meet you. Women who sit up all night rocking a teething baby, men who tell their daughters how pretty they look and teach their sons to play soccer.

THAT is SICK. That is as psychopathic as any suicide bomber.

If our soldiers have to be turned into psychopathic animals to fight a war, we should refuse to fight any more wars. Now there's a thought. Somehow Canada seems to exist without constantly making war around the world. I've been to Canada many times. It's a nice place. We might learn something from them. Like how to tend to our own business and leave the rest of the world alone.

You don't know what i know, what i think, or what i do.

No, I judge you solely on what you write. Think about that.

Its called humility, but i dont sit idly by and let people advocate things like islam when they are, in reality, spreading the acceptance of a truly hateful culture.

Humility? I don't think you know the definition. Again, I judge solely on what you write. But your writings show more hubris than humility.

Your just so overcome by hate for me right now that you feel the need to speak out against me, some of it may be justified, i admit i don't always have control over my insults(and i should).

Nah, I don't hate you. Frankly, that's too much emotion to bother expending upon you. However you are correct that I DID have the need to speak out against your insults. Someone should, as they are totally unjustified and have no place in any rational discourse.

Oh and Beth, since your a woman i would hope you off all people would be against being made to wear a veil at all times in public. And against having your face mutilated if it fell off. I pray you never have to go what those women go through over there.

You see, here is where you TOTALLY show your ignorance. All Muslims do NOT subscribe to the need for women to veil, etc. That's only the more extremist versions ... just like there are extremist versions of most (if not all) other religions.

The Quran does not require women to be veiled. Only to "dress modestly" and cover their chests. Look it up if you don't believe me. Many sects of Christianity do the same -- Amish, Mennonite, traditional Catholic -- to name a few. Also Orthodox Jewish women are expected to dress modestly and are required to cover their hair.

Of course I don't agree with how certain middle eastern countries treat their women ... but I do realize that's not solely religious based, but a combination of religion AND culture along with an overriding need for men to maintain a power base.

MSNBC says: "Among the organizations calling for Dooley’s dismissal from the college is the Council on American Islamic Relations."

And completely ignore that:

"...included trial transcripts and exhibits "which demonstrated a relationship among CAIR, individual CAIR founders, and the Palestine Committee. Evidence was also introduced that demonstrated a relationship between the Palestine Committee and HAMAS, which was designated as a terrorist organization in 1995."

The FBI says: "... CAIR gives materiel support to the Palestine Committee which was a fundraising and propaganda arm in the United States for Hamas..."

Before "Ol Doc" asks, I am a combat veteran, two tours in Viet Nam with the Green Berets. The military need not respond to public opinion polls. Leave that to the politicians. And they certainly will never be beholden to the "demands" of the terrorist cells hiding behind the fronts of CAIR, MRFF, and ADC.

I'm just sick of hearing the media use the word "outraged". Anyone who truly gets outraged over this stuff needs anger management help.

A note to CAIR- Americans by a vast majority approve of this course !!!! Kill'em all and let God sort'em out !

jrt007 You said "Atheists are all over, they have no moral bindings to prevent them from violence.....that is why we have so much violence here." What?

Do you honestly think that a person must be religious to be a good person with good morals? Maybe you need to be threatened to be kept in line and not become an Anarchist, but most do not.

Humans are born with an innate sense of right and wrong. You can watch toddlers play and they rarely if ever really do anything bad to each other. Small kids have been shown to know right from wrong, and that it is better to help someone. This isn't always taught by the parents, it really doesn't have to be.

It would be a truly sad day for humanity if it were true that without the fear of religious punishment, people would all be doing terrible things because they were not held by their religions standards.

I have heard this before and it is not true in the slightest. Trust me, I volunteer, help homeless people out, have taken in people that needed a place to sleep and many good things. I am not religious.

@ CAT, SALLY

Not long ago I listened to a Satanist and was skeptical at first but later found him to be more of pagan type and actually non threatening, one thing he did say that struck a cord: "Islam is the only religion that scares me" "Islam is a slave religion, with the women at the bottom". If you ever dated a Muslim woman you would know what he's talking about. The women have their clitoris's mutilated. Why, you ask ? This is to take away the woman's (or girl) ability to have an orgasm, it is a form of control. Islam is a slave religion that controls it's members and enslaves it's women. Look it up, since you only believe what you want to believe, I suppose you wouldn't believe it until some crazy Islamist woman mutilates you in retaliation for having her clitoris "circumcised" at age 9, right ?

The Qur'an should not be confused with the Bible(which is one of several Hebrew books). Muhammad should not be associated with Jesus, whom the Islamists claim was "only" a prophet. I've not seen anything in the Bible about killing those you cannot convert. Besides most Christians aren't so fanatical anymore, not even the Orthodox Christians, and they're certainly not planning to blow up any mosques !

So it's time to wake up from your nice little dream and pull your head out of your a**, because that is what's going on weather you want to deal with it or not.

I've not seen anything in the Bible about killing those you cannot convert.

No, that would be disrespectful children, those who eat shellfish, or wear clothes made of two or more different fibers.

Your book of crazy is no better than anyone elses book of crazy.

We are in this "fix" because we don't have the stomach to do what needs ro be done to defeat the Muslim terrorists. It's like slapping someone who just shot you. These Muslims are serious and mean business. They look to take over Europe and eventually the USA. Political Correctness is going to be our downfall because we won't say what is obvious to a blind man. Muslims are the enemy. Muslims are the ones that took down the towers and crashed into the Pentagon and would have done more if they had not been stopped on flight 111. Muslims live in the dark ages with their harsh rule over their women and they still buy and sell slaves in Africa right now in 2012. Are we just going to wait until they start bombing shopping malls and schools here in the USA before we do anything? Look at Europe, esp. France and England. Muslims are close to taking over in those countries. They won't be France and England for long, and then what??

@Wm. Read the Koran. Take the time to understand it's verses. Tell me how a good practicing Muslim can be friends with anyone of another religion. From the verses telling Muslims to lie and mislead any "infidel" in order to subjugate him, to the ones requiring fellow Muslims to either enslave the infidel and his wife and children or put them to the sword and confiscate his land and wealth. In answer to your question about what I want my soldier to be, I want the idiot politicians, once they declare war to sit back, shut up and let our military wage all out war, not this bs they call war today. War is the total destruction of the enemy, including area denial, infrastructure destruction and total destruction of their capability to make war. We haven't seen total war since WWII. We have PC type wars that solve nothing and allow the killing to continue forever.

Rich, guys like Wm. will never get it until it's too late.

None of you even read the story, and I'm sure you haven't read my bio.

The last time I checked, Al Queda was our enemy...not Saudi Arabia (Muslim), Turkey (Muslim), Qatar (Muslim) or India (which has a large Muslim minority). So by your reasoning, we should declare war on them? Our own allies?

We're doing a good enough job screwing up our country...it's not like we need any more help.

WM, you're a bigger enemy to our way of life than the terrorists. By making the distinctions you make, you demonstrate a total inability to see the big picture. You think the Saudis are our friends? You think that any Muslim nation sees us as anything but a friend of convenience? If you do, then you're a fool, with zero understanding of how they operate.

Welcome them with open arms all you want. You'll be the first to get them chopped off.

winning the hearts and minds!?..., it is all a facade to make you feel safe at night. Europe will fall and become a conglomerate of Muslim Nations... and we will be able to see first hand what happens to the rights of non-Muslims then. Of course by then we will have 40 millions Muslims here in the US already..., and what are we going to do with them then?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajp-kqKF-Bo&feature=related

rich, you are the one you needs to better understand the koran. You seem to have an understanding of it shared only by the likes of Robert Spencer and other anti-Islamic figures. I'm a Muslim and I have never heard or seen anyone interpreting what you say from the Koran. This business about "lying" is a permission to not advertise you're Muslim if you're being persecuted, nothing more. There are clear commands in the Koran and hadith to leave those of other religions alone. Sure there are commands about how to conduct a war if Muslims are attacked - it says to stop fitting once they stop fighting you, submit, or convert. Now if you look in the bible you'll see clear verses demanding all those of other religions should be killed (such as in deuteronomy)

so are you calling for the extermination of one quarter of humanity?

WM, you're a bigger enemy to our way of life than the terrorists. By making the distinctions you make, you demonstrate a total inability to see the big picture. You think the Saudis are our friends? You think that any Muslim nation sees us as anything but a friend of convenience? If you do, then you're a fool, with zero understanding of how they operate.

Welcome them with open arms all you want. You'll be the first to get them chopped off.

I guess it is true a prophet is unwelcome in his own country. Then again, there is no point in arguing with trolls...

I AGREE with David at the top of this posting, the Muslims want to take over the USA and will do anything and say anything to get their mission done. If i can see this i do not understand why everyone can't see it, Rights? what rights did the 3000. souls that died on Sept. 11 or the pow's in the middleeast what kind of rights were they shown? And one more question how do you tell a good Muslim from a bad one? they live next door to you and one day you see them on the news being arrested for an act of terroisim so why not train our Military to act the way they do they are the first ones to see the torture these people are willing to behead our US citizens one at a time, Start deporting all the Muslims asap.

Oh the terrified little fear-mongers are out in force.

Communism will topple one country after another!
Islam will topple one country after another!

If you people are truly Americans, you are disgusting examples of us.

The biggest problem in this country in regards to Islam are atheists. They believe they are above everything and everyone is just the same. But this is 100% false. Atheists are the most smug, ignorant people to stain this earth, they are the ones who tell people muslims and christians are the same. The thing is they don't know jack sh*t about either.

I am a christian, do I like muslims?, NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. They represent everything Jesus stood against. Treating women like lesser beings, killing your enemies out of hate and intolerance, harsh punishments for minor offences, like getting your hand chopped off for stealing.

That being said, what do i think is the best course of action? PRAY for their souls, do not let them infect our country, but do not deny them theirs, leave them be.

IF they keep attacking us on American soil, THEN it is time to crusade it. (The crusades btw was a retaliatory act against muslims for repeated jihadist attacks in spain that kept happening.)

Oh and btw....how many Muslims send aid to starving children? How many muslim missionaries bring medicine to the sick?.........NONE

Christians and Jews are the only religion that actively helps people without regard for cultural, religious, or political affiliation.

Great...just what we need, more crusades. After all, the last ones worked out so well.

Ol_Doc

once again you show how little you know.

The crusades were a retaliatory act against previous and repeated invasions by muslim jihadists in Spain. But since your head is so far up your @$$, and you have already decided to go against christianity because its the "cool" and "politically correct" thing to do.....there's really no point in telling you. Makes me feel better though.

Your "God Fantasy" is what is arrogant! lol Get over it. hahaha

The crusades btw was a retaliatory act against muslims for repeated jihadist attacks in spain that kept happening.)

The crudsades began as a response to a call for aid from the Byzatine Empire in 1095. Pope Urban II launched the first Crusade in 1096 with the stated goal of securing safe passage to the Holy Land for Christian pilgrims (which they were never actually denied). In 1099, French forces took Jerusalem by seige, and proceeded to slaughter the Jews and Muslims (who fought alongside each other defending Jerusalem) and burnt their places of worship to the ground. Meanwhile, the conquest of Spain by the Moors had been over for about 3 centuries.

@hamjam

Your point? Muslims invaded europe first, 3 centuries is not that long, especially in those times where culture stayed the same for long time. Society was developing slowly.

They wouldn't need to protect pilgrims if they werent getting killed by muslims.

Did I say that everything that happened during the crusade was a good thing? No i did not.

So i'm not sure where you were going with that.......

Think his point was:, "you don't know @!$%#", but you can sure spew out hate..

As far as I am concerned organised religion is laughable at best. No doubt many good things are done in the name of God, but people should feel it is their human duty to help others instead of a moral balance to gain personal reward in the afterlife. Like political parties religious sects create boundaries between people, life is not always us against them.

Radical Islam has been at war with civilization for over 40 years, killing scores of Americans since the 1974 downing (and likely first use of an Islamist suicide attack on an airline) of TWA Flight 841. We were long overdue to engage the Jihadists in 2001, but our strategy must recognize the fact that the key to defeating Radical Islam lies in engaging moderate Muslims to speak and act out against their radical brethren. Just as the vast majority of Christians are not violent radicals willing to kill innocents to "save" innocent life, the vast majority of Muslims are not violent radicals willing to kill their fellow Muslims and other innocents in the name of Jihad.

I strongly oppose the "message" that was being sent through this training and believe those responsible should begin announcing their resignations "to pursue other opportunities" and/ or retirements. Blanket bigotry has no place in modern society and as such has no place in a modern military.

@funkster01

How is it hateful to protect pilgrims trying to go to Jerusalem? Or rejecting a culture that actively tries to destroy ours on our own soil.

I'm sorry i hate women being treated like animals.

Or barbaric punishments for minor offences

I'm sorry i hate people who deny rights to everyone that isnt like them

BTW, i wasn't talking to you, if i was i would have addressed you.

It is kind of a catch 22. You want the world to be civilized and rightly should act as an example. Yet time and again history shows that an advanced civilization that is unprepared to face a determined conqueror will fall.

I sympathize with people who want the military to behave like civilians, because they just don't get it. I'm not saying that they should pick up a gun and face the enemies that want to undo Western Civilization. But we better cut some slack to the military mindset that we HAVE TO HAVE as part of our country.

Now if you look in the bible you'll see clear verses demanding all those of other religions should be killed (such as in deuteronomy)

Nice try rstoutness, but Muslims believe in the "books of Moses" as well. Are you sure this isn't some attempt to take the pressure off of you? Concerning Mohammed the prophet, when did he ever leave anyone "alone"?

Wm, thank you.

Listen, people, or anyone who happens upon this comment.

Conservatives: from where I'm standing, it looks like you're some of the most anti-Muslim folks out there. Not all of you, true, but a lot of you. But don't you conservatives like the Constitution? Well, remember that part about the right to practice your religion and express yourself? Would you deny that to anyone? While I understand this isn't banning Islam, it <i>is</i> starting down that slippery slope.

Christians: Radical Christians are no better than radical Muslims. Jesus taught you to love your neighbor, to turn the other cheek. Why are you spreading your hate onto people when many of them have done nothing to hurt you or your country?

Everyone: Radical and extremist Muslims are a threat to our nation and our way of living. While I wish there were a peaceful solution, when the hatred runs that deep, both ways, I suppose we can justify killing the radicals.

However, not all Muslims are radicals. There are moderate Muslims out there. I know a few. They're pretty nice. They're pretty cool with people who don't follow their religion. But how long can they remain pretty nice and pretty cool with us when we discriminate against them because of their religion, kill their relatives and friends? We're just digging ourselves in deeper, people.

Can no one else see the irony in this?

"Read the Koran. Take the time to understand it's verses. Tell me how a good practicing Muslim can be friends with anyone of another religion."
Read the New Testament. Take the time to understand that it tells you in no uncertain terms that you must turn the other cheek and that you are not to resist those who do evil to you. Now tell me how a good practicing Christian can possibly use violence. What's that? People interpret their own holy texts in ways that divert from the apparent surface meaning? Oh my God, how could that possibly be?

Thank-you, Lev. Brevity is wit, and you managed to say briefly that which it took me a whole wall of text to do. Good job.

Any time, Kira.

Thanks for the kind words.

Okay--so you do know that Muslims share the first five books of the Bible with Christianity and Judaism, right? You do know that the same passages of (what we call) the Bible dictate that women are property, can be sold as sex slaves, and can be executed for the slightest failure to be "chaste" (but can also be executed if they are sex slaves and do not "please" their masters). You do know that the religious right in the United States also believes that most women--those who use birth control--are "sluts," right? You do know that they think women should not have the vote, should not be allowed to work outside the home, and should not be allowed birth control or even abortion when their health is in danger--right?

I could go on--but there is very little, if any, difference between the Old Testament of the Bible and the passages that people are selectively quoting from the Q'uran. I can find passages about how you are supposed to kill all the infidels, keep women in purdah, and spread the one true religion to the entire world, or else.

It doesn't take much to find someone on the Christian radical right who, if translated into Farsi, would sound exactly like a radical Islamist. Given that most of the trolls on this board are the same group that say that making birth control a part of all insurance policies--to be provided with no co-pay--is some kind of socialist plot to turn us all atheist . . . . it's really kind of funny to see ya'll pretending that you are defending the freedom of women.

Yes, there are people who are radical Islamists who aren't terribly pleasant people. They are in pretty much every country in the Middle East, extending into Southeast Asia and beyond. I don't have any problem with our country taking up arms against said individuals--and we've killed quite a few with Predator Drones and by other means.

However, we have also had radical right-wing Christians in this country who blow things up, beat and imprison and murder women, and call for "crusades." These aren't terribly pleasant people, either. In fact, they are the ones that inspire the not-terribly-pleasant radical Islamists to hate all of us.

If you want to hate all the people who are Muslim because of a small knot of Islamists whom the non-Islamists do not support, but don't condemn with a lot of vigor--what rationale is there for people who are Muslim to not hate all of us because of a small knot of "Christianists" (the type who say they are Christian but sure don't follow the teachings of Christ) that non-Christianists in the US do not support, but also do not condemn with a whole lot of vigor?

It's that "no longer relevant" thing that annoys me--I've had people here in the Bible Belt explain to me why the Constitution is "no longer relevant"--despite the fact that the US has an extremely low violent crime rate, hasn't had any substantial issues since 9/11, and certainly is not under the sort of peril that it was during WWII and the War of 1812. Anyone who says "no longer relevant" really means "it never was relevant, and I don't even want to pretend to be following it because it is keeping me from doing whatever I want."

Many people who are Muslim are delightful individuals--many Christians are delightful individuals. If only all religious people were that delightful, we'd have lot fewer problems.

When I read the title of this article I thought "Let the Muslim-bashing begin" and unfortunately, I have not been disappointed.

Muslims are America's newest rat problem,and the only way to get rid of a rat problem is to kill ALL the rats.

I rest my case.
What a moronic statement.
Aren't you people embarrassed to show how ignorant you sound?/p>

"Muslims are America's newest rat problem,and the only way to get rid of a rat problem is to kill ALL the rats."

Normally I would say something like "Replace Muslims with 'Jews' and tell me you don't sound like a Nazi." In this case, however, I don't think this person would mind that very much at all.

Exactly. And by the way dumba$$. This is a public board, so don't think someone didn't just notice you abdicating violence and mass murder on here. Hey, feel free to get a little nervous. I would be if I were you. You think we live in the 1920's? Think technology isn't all that it's cracked up to be? I'd be worrying about getting a little knock on my door by men in black suits if I were you. Ted Nugent didn't say anything as dumb as you did just now. Hell, you probably just made it onto a watch list. Niiiice. HEY AUTHORITIES, GOT ONE! He goes by by lckmiblls.

dan-282760 Muslims are "taking over" in Europe? Just like Mexicans are "taking over" here? Must be some international political conspiracy involving Mexicans and Muslims? Either that or your just a racist nationalist. I'll go with Occam's Razor on this one.

jrt077

@Fred Evil

your an idiot....nobody thinks muslims could take over here. But should they be allowed to be here? NO.

jrt077

The biggest problem in this country in regards to Islam are atheists. They believe they are above everything and everyone is just the same. But this is 100% false. Atheists are the most smug, ignorant people to stain this earth, they are the ones who tell people muslims and christians are the same. The thing is they don't know jack sh*t about either.

I am a christian--------------

Actually jrt they have as much right to be here as you do. America was founded on religious freedom. Unfortunately too many Christian extremests believe the only ones who should be here are those who think like they do. And I dare say sir, you are not a Christian. You sound like nothing more than a delusional right wing tea bagger.

HEY TYLER, WHERE'S THE REPORT BUTTON? WHY HASN'T THIS REGURGITATE PIECE OF GARBABE BEEN SUSPENDED FOR NAME CALLING? SELECTIVE,EH? OR ARE WE FREE NOW TO ENGAGE IN ANY KIND OF CONVERSATION WE FEEL LIKE?

“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross.” - Lewis Sinclair. 1935

Why did not the same gang scream when the US soldiers without Bibles were stationed in Saudi Arabia to protect that seventh century despotic, bigoted and barbaric ruler with 5000 princes and princesses?

Don't the soldiers have their basic rights?

Yep, the Uneducated, Inexperience, Uninformed, Emotive and Opinionate are coming out of the wood work.

1. 109 Suras of the 114 Suras of the Holy Koran (Quran) Calls All Islamic Believers to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbeleivers. This is also stated in the current Fundamentalist Islamic Laws, as well as the Death Penalty for Islamic Believers that do not participate.

The Fundamentalist Islam War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers will NOT stop. Even most US "Muslims" do not know what Ramadan and EID actually Celebrates (Hint: Islam's Victory over the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers as chronicled day by day of Ramadan, including the massacres of the Christian and Jewish defenders of Mecca, that's right Mecca used to belong to the Christians and Jews, not the Muslims).

2. The Minority Islamic Believers living at the US do NOT determine what Islam is for the 1.5 Billion Majority Fundamentalist Islamic Believers Worldwide.

3. Islam is NOT the limiting Western Term of "Religion. For Islamic Believers Islam is ALL, ALL Politics, ALL Religion, ALL Laws, ALL Ways of Life (and Death), ALL Culture, ALL Beliefs, etc. that supercede the politics, laws, religions, ways of life, cultures, beliefs, etc. of all other nations.

4. Islam is NOT a pick and choose Belief, you either are Subjugated to Islam as a Muslim or you are NOT. And once in never out.

5. The Manditory Islamic Tithes are NOT used for the building of Mosques, helping the poor, or peaceful purposes, and is used to Support the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadist Organizations Worldwide with Trillions USDs per year according to the US Department of State and International Intelligence Agencies as listed by the US Department of State:

the Worldwide Islamic Military (aka Jihadists, Terrorists) consisting of the International Al Quada Franchise (AQ, AQY, AQS, AQI, AQAP, AQIM, AQ Somalia, etc.), Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG aka "the Libyan Rebels"), Army of Islam Pakistan (not the Pakistanis Military), Pakistanis Taliban, Army of Islam Gaza, Hezbollah (Party of Allah, Palestine, Lebanon, Gaza, Libya, South and Central Americas, etc.), Hamas Foreign Fighters (Palestine, Libya, Gaza, South and Central Americas, maybe Mexico, etc.), Islamic Chechen Foreign Fighters, Muslim Brotherhood (Alexandria Egypt), Kongra Gel/Kurdistan Worker's Party (KGK/PKK), Jemaah Islamiya (JI), Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG), Fatah al-Islam (FAI), Ansar al-Islam (AI), Ansar al-Sunna (AS), Abu Nidal Organization (ANO), Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade (AAMS), Al-Shabaab, Ansar al-Islam (AAI), Asbat al-Ansar, Gama'a al-Islamiyya (Islamic Group), Harakat ul-Jihad-i-Islami/Bangladesh (HUJI-B), Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM), Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban of Afghanistan, Islamic Jihad Union (IJU), Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU), Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM) (Army of Mohammed), Jemaah Islamiya organization (JI), Kata'ib Hezbollah (KH), Lashkar-e Tayyiba (LT) (Army of the Righteous), Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ), Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group (GICM), Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK), Palestine Liberation Front (PLF), Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ), Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), PFLP-General Command (PFLP-GC), Harakat-ul Jihad Islami (HUJI), Jundallah, Moro Islamic Liberation Group (MILF), etc.

recently added Haqqani Network (Pakistan), Boko Haram (Nigeria) to the US Department of State List. They also need to add the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists at Mali.

6. The Manditory Islamic Tithes are NOT limited to monetary, and includes Political Endorsements, Legalization of the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists, children as Mandatory Islamic Tithes to become Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists, Islamic Sanctuary for Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists, Taqiya (Lies to Advance Islam, now a days that includes posting Lies to Advance Islam on the Internet).

This article is all about being a Manditory Islamic Tithe (required by Current Islamic Laws).

7. While all of you argue about things done by Christians, Jews in the distance Past, we are discussing NOW. That includes that it is against current Islamic Laws to even state that Islam must be brought into the 21st Century, the Iranian Lawyer that attempted to defend the Iranian Adultress, that has a Death Penalty Fatawa issued against him because he stated, "Islamic Laws must be brought into the 21st Century" so he had to flee to Norway (currently under Norweigian protective custody with his family for the rest of his life.).

8. Fundamentalist Islam will always win against everyone else since they use Armed Force, Starvation, the Islamic Belief, and the weaknesses of the enemy against their enemies. This is why the Fundamentalist Islamic Believer outnumber the "Moderates", "Liberals", "etc., as the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers have been massacring the "Moderates", "Liberals", "Modern", "Pro Western" Islamic Believers for Centuries.

Fundamentalist Islamic Believers usually regardless of "Sects" fit into the two larger groups of: a. Shia (@!$%#tes) as Fundamentalist Islamic Believers; b. Sunnis as the "Moderates", "Liberals", "Modern", "Pro Western" Islamic Believers.

examples: The Fundamentalist Islamic Believers hatred of former US Ally President of Iraq, President Hussein; hatred of former US Ally President of Libya, President Gaddaffi; hatred of former US Ally President of Egypt, President Mubarak; hatred of former US Ally President of Yemen, etc.. And how pathetic that the US Public does not even understand squat about the losses of the US in the region lately to Fundamentalist Islam. Did not mention what I cannot forget from being a UN/UA (African Union) Observer the Fundamentalist Islamic Arabic Omani Muslims massacring hundreds a day (Millions to date) of the Peaceful Moderate African Islamic Believes that refused to attack the Christians of Southern Sudan (Darfur); like I said there are less and less "Moderate" Islamic Believers due to the Fact that the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers are continuing to kill them off; same with Somalia and Worldwide.

So your idea of "Radicalized" and "Extremist" is way off the mark as that connotates the Majority is not Fundamentalist Islamic Believers; and the minority is the Majority as the "Moderate" Islamic Believers. So to the Majority as the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers would say that the minority of "Moderate" Islamic Believers are the "Radicals" (Heretics) of Islam, NOT the other way around.

Kira0nTheNetz - There are moderate Muslims out there. I know a few. They're pretty nice.

Do you know why I am laughing at you and LevTolstoy2, "Muslims" (Fundamentalist Islamic Believers, subjugated completely to Islam) are allow to Taqiya (Lies to Advance Islam) by putting on whatever show is appropriate for the situation. However, if they are actual "Muslims" by definition alone, they fooled you, with their shows. Like I stated about the Mandatory Islamic Tithes as required by Current Islamic Laws, that means they are actually active participants supporting the Holy Koran (Quran) War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers, as why the US Department of State, International Intelligence Agencies, International Financial Institutions, etc. have been attempting to seize the funds of Muslims, stop the Mandatory Islamic Tithes from reaching the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists.

You want to believe that "Muslims" in the US are NOT the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers, LOL; that is like saying a Orthordox Jew is not Jewish.

How about both of you watching the movie Not Without My Daughter, based on Real Life of US Citizen Betty Mahmoody, her daughter, and her Muslim Husband.

Kira0nTheNetz, LevTolstoy2 - Bad Christians during the Crusades, Old Testament, New Testament

FYI, this is the 21st Century not the Biblical Days. So how about Fundamentalist Islamic Believers aka Muslims ACTIONS TODAY.

Both of you sound just like the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers spouting Taqiya (Lies to Advance Islam); in this case justifying Muslims Actions TODAY with things that the Christians TODAY no longer do.

Kira0nTheNetz,

How about letting them cut off your clitoris, labia. Islamic Law is determined by the Majority currently being Fundamentalist Islamic obeying Shia Laws, Hadith (Customs) and not the Sunnis Moderate Islamic Interpretations of the Holy Koran as the Fiqh (Reason) Laws.

Just as I thought about you Kira0nTheNetz lots of mouth; but, no action.

I honestly believe that the current 1% of US Citizens of the US Military, Enlisted and NCOs need to stop Enlisting, US Military Officers tender their Letters of Resignation, we (my Teams and Myself) go back on Retirement and all the Kira0nTheNetzs and LevTolstoy2s get "Drafted" as what Candidate Obama's Solution during the Presidential Debates was to end the 1% of US Citizens of the US Military from repeated long deployments, to get the 92% of US Citizens that have NEVER Served to "Do their Fair Share" as "US Citizenship is not an Entitlement" and "US Military Service is a Civic Duty".

9. The Islamic World signs the 1933 Forever Alliance with Chancellor Adolf Hitler. The Representative of the Islamic World Amin Al Husseini forms the Elite Muslim SS Brigades at Germany to round up the Jews. Amin Al Husseini starts the Pan Arabic Plan to occupy Palestine by removing the Christians, Jews from Palestine and moving in the "undersirable" Arabs from Jordan, Egypt, into Palestine before the Jews get there after WWII. Amin Al Husseini co founds the Fundamentalist Islamic Arab League of Nations to exterminate the Jews. Implementation of his Plan to continue the Fundamentalist Islamic Goal of the Extermination of the Jews Forever; by starting the young believing with Mandatory School Ciricuulum of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" taught as a Success Story (sabotaged by the Jews) and the Blame the Jews for everything, "Protocols of the Wise Elders of Zion". Amin Al Husseini co founds the Muslim Brotherhood.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1970-041-50%2C_Amin_al_Husseini_bei_bosnischen_SS-Freiwilligen.jpg

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=amin+al+husseini&view=detail&id=4086138CA051B495958BF4F1E0B1C242A5BA077C&first=31&FORM=IDFRIR

Really laughing (posters saying nice these Nations are to live at):

Indonesia, yep, lived there with the locals while attached to US Embassy.

Egypt, yep, lived there with local families while attending College to learn Arabic and Islam in Arabic.

Turkey, yep, lived there with the locals while training with the US Ally Turkey Military.

Saudi Arabia, yep, lived there with the locals while working for Redacted.

(Extreme Sarcasm) Uh, huh, really nice living at those Nations. What Nation do you want to talk about first, how about this:

Patriarch Bartholomew Feels "Crucified"

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/05/60minutes/main6747019.shtml?tag=mncol;lst;4

10. Lots of etc. about Islam.

FYI: STOP lining thru our departure date. 2001. 2002 for Operation Hotel California 2003. Down time to replace dead. 2005. 2006. 2007. Redacted. 2009. 2011. 2012. 2013. 2014. Indefinite ?. Most of you thought that I was joking about Years of Consecutive Tours.

STOP Recalling us back to Active US Military Duty in the Special Category as the less than 3% of the 97% of the US Military of the 1% of US Citizens currently Serving the US Military of the 92% US Citizens that refuse to Serve and get paid below minimum wages (and "Benefits" that we pay for TriCare Medical Payroll Deductions, State and Federal Income Tax Withholding, payroll deductions for Education, payroll deductions for Social Security, contributions to Medicare, State Taxes on all other Pay (Hazardous Duty, etc.), etc.), while the ungrateful US Public demands Cuts to the US Military (current RIF, equals longer and more deployments for the few remaining), Cuts to the US Military Defense Budget, Cuts to our EARNED few Benefits left, etc..

Those of us that have been involved in the "Middle East", Africa, Asia, South and Central America's since the 1980s EARNED our Retirement again (the few of us that survived, less than 1% of 1% of 3% of the 97% of US Military of the 1% of US Citizens currently Serving the US Military).

I stated FACTS, where are your Facts pertaining to Islam TODAY.

I'mwhitewolf: Anyone can see from your post that you are christian in name only or are lying. Trouble is too many people in this country think they are christian and then go off spouting ideals that are according to what they think is right, rather than what the bible represents. It's a shame really, because through their actions they are damning other people into hell.

LevTolstoy: Secondly, that is the problem with so many liberals on this site. Jesus said that his kingdom is not of this world, so to engrain Jesus' teachings with the Govt. might spell disaster for the country. Do you think it is always wise to " turn the other cheek" after someone bombs your country? Unfortunately liberals can't tell the difference.

Another fact, that the Press refuses to bring up, is that Europe has steadily decreased the religious freedom of Christians and in turn, increased the freedom of atheists and other religions on the basis of securing of " cultural diversity". Well, just by looking at Europe, we can see what has become of that policy. Already muslims are overtaking Britain and France and the goverments are unable to cope. This is not fantasy, but a fact. Can you honestly say that the US is not headed in the same direction? You cannot expect muslims to act in the same way as Christians. Muslims will not" turn the other cheeK" so to think that the same govt. policies for the them will ensure the same types of freedom for everyone else, is a mistake.

Third its been noted that a lot of liberals seem to put radical christians on the same plane as radical muslims. While I believe this to be somewhat true, we haven't heard much from radical christians in terms of blowing up places in the US. However, we have heard more about what radical muslims are doing. Conspiracy? Possibly, but its much more likely that there are more govt. coverups about muslim involvement than we are hearing about.

Another thing I keep hearing about are "radical/ evangelical" christians who are causing problems because they are invoking their right to free speech. Keep in mind, it is just free speech. The only problem is when liberals are trying to curtail it. As long as it is not followed up by acts of violence, then it is perfectly allowable by the law. So get over it.

I could go on, but too many liberals think they know the bible when it has been obvious that they don't. For example, using Christ as a figure for policies about what Jesus would do, then reverting back to the book of Leviticus, saying christians are hypocritical, it always proves the point that they don't know what they are talking about. Too many verses in the bible refer to Christ as being part of the "new Covenant" with God, but liberals keep refering back to the "old"( Leviticus). It's obvious that they can't tell the difference. The downside is that most liberals are more likely to believe a muslim when they say that those controversial verses don't apply to them. That makes it less understandable. Are these liberals faking stupidity or do they not realize that by opening a door to a double standard, they are just in a situation for a takeover?

Unhappy: Well, at least you're intellectually honest and make sense.

And you're right, conservative Christians ranting and raving about Muslims is not illegal. It's ugly free speech, but it is free speech. But it's part of a slippery slope. How many of those Christians would commit acts of violence against Muslims if our government and law enforcement were in the disarray that they are in in the Islamic countries? I'd imagine a fair amount would.

As for Europe decreasing the religious freedom of Christians and increasing the freedom of other religions... well, I'm not going to argue with you there. However, I think you're misinterpreting the meaning of it. Europe, not too long ago, was Christian through and through, and Christian sentiments are still pretty darn strong there. What Europe is doing is evening out the balance between the religions. Yes, if this goes too far and Christianity becomes a threatened, underprivileged minority, then there is cause for alarm, and quite possibly intervention. But not now.

And liberals think they know the Bible? Well, very few people actually read large amounts of the Bible and carefully think about everything it has to say. I'm sorry to say I'm not one of them. But those who understand the Bible, from where I'm standing, are about evenly distributed between conservative and liberal.

Oh, and david-475776... No need to spread the hate around too much. You could have easily made your point without turning it into a personal affront to two specific people, LevTolstoy2 and I.

So other than the above, I'm going to ignore your taunts and respond to your arguments.

Yes, perhaps the moderate, kind Muslims are viewed as radicals by their own people. But the kind Muslims are here. They are people, and deserving of all the rights we give other people in this nation. The radical Muslims... well, I'm not one for violence, but I'm not going to protest any efforts to curb them, as long as we don't get any innocents mixed up in this.

The law you mentioned in Islam... I'm not going to refute it. You're probably better-informed in Islamic law than I am. But there are people, I am sure, who, in spite of this, are good people.

And you know what? There was a time I considered converting to Islam, or at least Islam as the people I know practice it; Islam while abiding the laws of the United States before the laws of the Koran. You could argue that that isn't real Islam, but if you do, then you must promise to exclude those people from your descriptions of Muslims and how to solve the problem.

Atheists are the most smug, ignorant people to stain this earth, they are the ones who tell people muslims and christians are the same. The thing is they don't know jack sh*t about either.

Odd, when you immediately go on to demonstrate your wonton ignorance regarding Muslims, atheists are on average FAR more educated on religions than any other group. They tend to know more about xtianity than XTIANS do. You want to claim they know nothing? Then know more than they do, which you obviously do not. Go pick up your manifestly error-prone bible, and gobble up some more faux-history, and then regurgitate that ignorance for us as you have been.

You are not a pretty example of xtianity, you are exactly who Gandhi spoke of.

Thanks Sally.

your an idiot.

(Sigh)...the riposte easily writes itself...

Take the time to understand it's verses.

I am not the person you were addressing but I have taken the time to understand its verses.

Tell me how a good practicing Muslim can be friends with anyone of another religion.

How about like this:

It may be that Allah will grant love (and friendship) between you and those whom ye (now) hold as enemies. For Allah has power (over all things); And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

(Qur'an, Al-Mumtaḥanah [Surah 60:] 7-9)

Consider the meaning of the above quote from the verses of the the Qur'an. Now, consider the following:

O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

(Qur'an, Al-Ḥujurat [Surah 49:] 13)

I'll bet you next will speak of abrogation. Before you go there, you should first understand how abrogation works. You also should understand that these are among the latest of the verses in the Qur'an.

From the verses telling Muslims to lie and mislead any "infidel" in order to subjugate him,

Quote them, then. If you are truthful, do quote those verses here so we can examine them. I have yet to read them even though I have read the entire Qur'an.

to the ones requiring fellow Muslims to either enslave the infidel and his wife and children or put them to the sword and confiscate his land and wealth.

Again, if you know them and are truthful, quote them. I have yet to read what you claim is there, notwithstanding I have read the entire Qur'an. Maybe I missed something.

Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

(Qur'an, Al-Mumtaḥanah [Surah 60:] 7-9)

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=60&tAyahNo=8&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

God does not forbid you in regard to those who did not wage war against you, from among the disbelievers, on account of religion and did not expel you from your homes, that you should treat them kindly (an tabarrūhum is an inclusive substitution for alladhīna , 'those who') and deal with them justly: this was [revealed] before the command to struggle against them.

meaning it's been abrogated, it no longer applies

Assuredly God loves the just

God only forbids you in regard to those who waged war against you on account of religion and expelled you from your homes and supported [others] in your expulsion, that you should
make friends with them (an tawallawhum is an inclusive substitution for alladhīna, ' those who '). And whoever makes friends with them, those - they are the wrongdoers.

only "bad" Muslims make friends with non-Muslims, they are the wrongdoes

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=60&tAyahNo=9&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

meaning it's been abrogated, it no longer applies

And, as things would have it, the commentary has no offering pertaining to which verse "abrogated" the one being commented upon. It is not very clear about this, and even if it pertained only to an earlier time, it is supported by a verse that was recited in 9 A.H., just before the year that Muhammad died. That verse has been given above.

Another tafsir from the same site comments on the same passage:

(Verily ye have in them a goodly pattern for everyone who looketh to Allah and the Last Day…) [60:6-8]. Allah, exalted is He, says to the believers: “You have in Abraham as well as in the prophets and friends of Allah good role models, regarding their declaration of enmity towards their relatives who were idolaters, which should be emulated”. So when this verse was revealed, the believers declared their relatives who were idolaters to be their enemies. They showed this enmity to them and absolved themselves of all the things that they did or believed in. Allah, exalted is He, knew that this was hard on the believers and so He revealed (It may be that Allah will ordain love between you and those of them with whom ye are at enmity) [60:7]. And He did just that when many of them embraced Islam, thus becoming brothers and friends. Consequently, they mingled with and married from among each other. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, married Umm Habibah, the daughter of Abu Sufyan ibn Harb. As a result, Abu Sufyan mellowed a little. When he heard of the news of his daughter's marriage, he said while he was still an idolater: “He is an outstanding person, no harm shall come to him”. Abu Salih Mansur ibn 'Abd al-Wahhab al-Bazzaz informed us> Abu 'Amr Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Hiri> Abu Ya'la> Ibrahim ibn al-Hajjaj> 'Abd Allah ibn al-Mubarak> Mus'ab ibn Thabit> 'Ami ibn 'Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr> his father who said: “Qutaylah bint 'Abd al-'Uzza went to visit her daughter Asma' bint Abi Bakr and took with her gifts: desert lizards, clarified butter and dry cheese. However, Asma' refused to let her in her house and rejected her gifts. 'A'ishah went on behalf of Asma' to ask the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, about this. Allah, exalted is He, revealed (Allah forbiddeth you not those who warred not against you on account of religion) [60:8]. Asma' then let her mother into her house and accepted her gifts”. This was narrated by al-Hakim Abu 'Abd Allah in his Sahih> Abu'l-'Abbas al-Sayyari> 'Abd Allah al-Ghazal> Ibn Shaqiq> Ibn al-Mubarak.

(Asbab Al-Nuzul by Al-Wahidi)

So, let's see, should we accept the stance of the tafsir you quote or the stance of this Hadith cited in another tafsir that I am sure you deliberately avoided citing here after reading it? :)

In fairness to your position, however, the question concerns the historical context. Interestingly enough, if we take it just that way, however, it shoots through the foot one of your arguments that you have advanced regarding a particular passage of the Qur'an and also limits it to a specific time period, invalidating it as being a reference to current enjoined practice. Whoops! :)

Another tafsir from the same site comments on the same passage

When you "block quote" you must provide the link, or it's plagiarism.

the question concerns the historical context. Interestingly enough, if we take it just that way, however, it shoots through the foot one of your arguments that you have advanced regarding a particular passage of the Qur'an and also limits it to a specific time period

Ibn Taymiyyah and progress in the Islamic world | Egypt Independent

Source: Egypt Independent

"The conference, held in Mardin in Southwestern Turkey, found that there no longer exists any context in which to apply the religious edicts of Ibn Taymiyyah, who lived in the 13th century and called for extremist violence and the division of Muslims into believers and infidels. Scholars, which attended the conference from all over the Arabic and Islamic worlds, said that 'The religious edicts that extremist Islamists often cite to justify killing cannot be implemented in a world that respects the freedom of belief and civil rights.'"

In my opinion, the above news item, published in Al-Masry Al-Youm on 1 April, is significant on a number of levels.

First, it reports that the Islamic world has been governed by the ideas of Ibn Taymiyyah since the 13th century right up to the present day.

Some of us have noticed this

We might even say the events of 11 September, 2001 were an extension of these 13th-century ideas.

Yes

Second, it tells us that the Islamic world wants to be liberated from the thinking of Ibn Taymiyyah.

This could be wishful thinking, but I hope he is correct.

And third, it tells us that, after Muslims free themselves from the specter of Ibn Taymiyyah, they will have to find an alternative way of seeing the world.We then must ask: What did Ibn Taymiyyah actually think? And what is the alternative to his philosphy?

When you "block quote" you must provide the link, or it's plagiarism.

I provided the source in parentheses. That is sufficient enough to avoid that charge. I also mentioned that the very same site that you cited is the same source before I posted the quotation. But, it is it a link you want, here it is:

http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=86&tSoraNo=60&tAyahNo=8&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

Ibn Taymiyyah and the Egypt Independent

I have read this article--the entire article--and I agree with it. I have long thought Ibn Taymiyyah was extremist in his views and thoroughly wrong. I would add ibn Kathir to the same class. By the way, the Tafsir I cited is the oldest. Older often means closer to the source. Just saying.

Still, it does not change the fact that you still unwittingly undercut one of your entire arguments made some months ago about the meaning and application of the so-called "Ayah of the Sword." I wonder, Do you see that yet? :)

I wonder, Do you see that yet? :)

No, because it's bovine excrement

I have linked the tafsir of Ibn Kathir verse of the sword, and it is extremely violent and "supremest" in nature. I have never claimed otherwise.

I have long thought Ibn Taymiyyah was extremist in his views and thoroughly wrong. I would add ibn Kathir to the same class

They are both standard Islam, mainstream, they conform to the teaching of Mohammad, as endorsed by Al-Azhar university in Egypt. The Harvard of the Islamic world.

It's the political Islam of Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, the Sudan, the taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah,Boko Haram and the hundreds of other jihadist groups "struggling" in the way of 'allah', on every Continent but Antarctica.

And if the "Arab spring" (Islamist winter) is successful, the same version of Islam will rule all of North Africa.

No, because it's bovine excrement

I have linked the tafsir of Ibn Kathir verse of the sword, and it is extremely violent and "supremest" in nature. I have never claimed otherwise.

Pity you don't see it , yet. But, then again, you rarely see even when it stares you in the face in the full light of day. Fact is, the Ayah of the Sword applies to a specific people in a specific time. Maybe one day you will see it and understand. Alas! I fear that day a long way off, however.

They are both standard Islam, mainstream, they conform to the teaching of Mohammad, as endorsed by Al-Azhar university in Egypt. The Harvard of the Islamic world.

It's the political Islam of Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, the Sudan, the taliban, Hamas, Hezbollah,Boko Haram and the hundreds of other jihadist groups "struggling" in the way of 'allah', on every Continent but Antarctica.

No, they aren't. Their ideas are extremist in nature and they themselves have failed to grasp the meaning of the Qur'an as a whole. These jihadist groups are in the minority. And, who cares about whether something is the equivalent of "Harvard"? They don't speak for the entire Muslim world. I am not even Muslim and I understand even that much.

And if the "Arab spring" (Islamist winter) is successful, the same version of Islam will rule all of North Africa.

Well, then, maybe we should praise Obama for that. Oh, wait.... :)

the Ayah of the Sword applies to a specific people in a specific time

That is an un-sourced assertion.

It can not be be sourced from any widely accepted authentic source of Islamic jurisprudence

https://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/news/osama.htm

Saudi Arabia Text of Fatwa Urging Jihad Against Americans London Al-Quds al-'Arabi in Arabic -- 23 Feb 98, Page 3

"Text of World Islamic Front's Statement Urging Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders" -- Al-Quds al-'Arabi headline; in a front-page report, Al- Quds al-'Arabi says that the statement was "faxed to Al- Quds al-'Arabi and signed by Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin (the prominent Saudi oppositionist); Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt; Abu- Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, a leader of the [Egyptian] Islamic Group; Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan; and Fazlul Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh"

Praise be to God, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book

"But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)";

verse of the sword.

kpr37 'black Irish" pagan, child of the goddess Danu

I'm a sociopath? Perhaps you need to read all the blogs on here that feel the way I do! You must be a Muslim. It's a good thing we weren't this "tolerant" when the nazis were trying to take over the world!

I'm wondering what the real problem is here. Yes, the political PC is absurd. They PC folks turn a blind eye to the fact that every "Muslim" country is run by dictatorial thugs. The Muslim clerics allow no freedoms. The Muslim philosphy in those countries is that you do as you are told or "off with your head!"

Now, as to the "civilian" part of the equation: Has anyone thought that that is where the real battle is being fought? Were the 9/11 terrorists members of the military? Of course not! Are all the suicide bombers part of the military? Of course not. Has any Muslim that has attacked the West been members of the military? Not that anyone has acknowledged. Has anyone who has attacked the west wearing a military uniform when they attacked? Of course not! So, if the attacks aren't coming from the "military," where do you think they are coming from? Considering that we only have 2 classifications, military and civilian, and they are not coming from the military, then where do you think you should concentrate your efforts? Why, little old Grandmas and infants of course! Good grief people!

Personally, I'll believe the Muslim peace stuff when I see proof that they are peaceful. We know that all over the Middle East they are taught hatred of Jews and the West. Heck, our UN money finances a lot of that "education." Stupid is as stupid does. Until we get serious about the threat, then we will continue to waste trillions of dollars and not accomplish anything. So, what will happen? We'll continue to waste trillions of dollars and accomplish nothing.

It is kind of a catch 22. You want the world to be civilized and rightly should act as an example. Yet time and again history shows that an advanced civilization that is unprepared to face a determined conqueror will fall.

I sympathize with people who want the military to behave like civilians, because they just don't get it. I'm not saying that they should pick up a gun and face the enemies that want to undo Western Civilization. But we better cut some slack to the military mindset that we HAVE TO HAVE as part of our country.

What muslim civilians? Their religion dictates that all muslims are charged with converting or eradicating non muslims. This is a cult that, admittedly, cannot co-exist with any other kind of religion, law or government.

Christians' religion tells them not to resist evil and to turn the other cheek. And yet they ignore it CONSTANTLY. What makes Muslims so different.

Unbelieveable, you took the words out of my mouth at comment 3.2! Good thing political correctness wasn't in vogue during WWII, or most of the world would be ruled by Nazis. Frankly, I don't see much difference between Nazis and Muslims. As a woman, being told to respect and tolerate Muslims is rather like telling a Jewish person to respect and tolerate Nazis.

Seems like we just had news from across the pond where people were using children as sex slaves but no one wanted to do anything out of fear of not being politically correct. We need to get back to business and quit tip toeing around. Re -write the manual and move on.

@ LevTolstoy2 it is resist evil and turn the other cheek.... but America can ill afford to keep turning the other cheek after 911.

Sorry, Jesus, this great Christian nation doesn't really give a darn what you have to say, we are scared!

I'm quite sure if Jesus had a sword being swung at his face instead of a hand simply slapping his cheek, he would have thought different and probably fought back or at the very least, would've ducked.

Yeah, if only we knew what Jesus would do if he were ever faced with extreme violence. The bible certainly doesn't say anything about that does it?

Try reading Revelations lkmiballs, Jesus comes back w/ flaming eyes and a sword for a tongue riding on a firely steed slicing up all the bad people or non-believers. Yeah, makes your NAZI a$$ seem tame.

He was tied, bound and beaten repeatedly (do you have any idea what scourging consists of?) and then crucified (Willingly)

He was a far better MAN than you'll ever hope to be, and he not once abdicated murdering people for believing differently than himself. Now please get back to your social studies homework and leave the discussion to the adults will ya?

Even while training, one is not supposed to state the realities.

What is anti-Muslim material that is being taught?

At least our soldiers are not being taught jihad like our enemies doing!

Levtolstoy: Anyone can see from your post that you are christian in name only or are lying. Trouble is too many people in this country think they are christian and then go off spouting ideals that are according to what they think is right, rather than what the bible represents. It's a shame really, because through their actions they are damning other people into hell.

Secondly, that is the problem with so many liberals on this site. Jesus said that his kingdom is not of this world, so to engrain Jesus' teachings with the Govt. might spell disaster for the country. Do you think it is always wise to " turn the other cheek" after someone bombs your country? Unfortunately liberals can't tell the difference.

Another fact, that the Press refuses to bring up, is that Europe has steadily decreased the religious freedom of Christians and in turn, increased the freedom of atheists and other religions on the basis of securing of " cultural diversity". Well, just by looking at Europe, we can see what has become of that policy. Already muslims are overtaking Britain and France and the goverments are unable to cope. This is not fantasy, but a fact. Can you honestly say that the US is not headed in the same direction? You cannot expect muslims to act in the same way as Christians. Muslims will not" turn the other cheeK" so to think that the same govt. policies for the them will ensure the same types of freedom for everyone else, is a mistake.

Third its been noted that a lot of liberals seem to put radical christians on the same plane as radical muslims. While I believe this to be somewhat true, we haven't heard much from radical christians in terms of blowing up places in the US. However, we have heard more about what radical muslims are doing. Conspiracy? Possibly, but its much more likely that there are more govt. coverups about muslim involvement than we are hearing about.

Another thing I keep hearing about are "radical/ evangelical" christians who are causing problems because they are invoking their right to free speech. Keep in mind, it is just free speech. The only problem is when liberals are trying to curtail it. As long as it is not followed up by acts of violence, then it is perfectly allowable by the law. So get over it.

I could go on, but too many liberals think they know the bible when it has been obvious that they don't. For example, using Christ as a figure for policies about what Jesus would do, then reverting back to the book of Leviticus, saying christians are hypocritical, it always proves the point that they don't know what they are talking about. Too many verses in the bible refer to Christ as being part of the "new Covenant" with God, but liberals keep refering back to the "old"( Leviticus). It's obvious that they can't tell the difference. The downside is that most liberals are more likely to believe a muslim when they say that those controversial verses don't apply to them. That makes it less understandable. Are these liberals faking stupidity or do they not realize that by opening a door to a double standard, they are just in a situation for a takeover?

I'm not referring to Leviticus. I am referring to multiple direct commandments that tell you not to resist evil, to passively accede to a person who aggresses against you, and to give anything to anyone who asks it of you. That's not easy to do. i don't see any scriptural evidence, however, to suggest that Jesus tells us very specifically to do these things and yet so-called Christians like you seem to think that he didn't actually mean any of it.

unbelievable-3571258- How are the Islamist militants being taught?

Do you really want to know. The Majority of Islam are Fundamentalist Islamic Believers (aka what you would call Militants, Terrorists, Jihadists, etc.), since the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers kill/killed off the Minority of "Moderate", "Liberal", "Rule of Modern Law", "Politically Correct", "Pro Western", "Modern" Islamic Believers. Just like they did after the US abandoned the US Ally Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers with the full support of the USSR Backed Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran massacred all of the 20,000 to 50,000 US Ally Pro US Afghan Muhajeen, then their Families, Friends, Relatives and then they killed off most of the Pro US Population of Afghanistan as Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers. Then the Fundamentalist Islamic Believers went after the Buddhists, Taoists, etc. and massacred them also.

From since they are born, and while growing up there is peer pressure, and parental "guidance" as the mandatory hatred of anything or anyone that is "Non Islamic". The News Media broadcasts this, the Government condones this. The Fundamentalist Islamic World's 1933 Forever Alliance with Chancellor Adolf Hitler requires this. The Holy Koran (Quran) makes this Mandatory, and is reinforced by the Current Islamic Laws. Deviation from the Current Islamic Laws requires consequences. The Imams at the Mosques Order this.

You can see some of this in LevTolstoy2 as part of his continued referring to the ANCIENT wrongs of the Christians, instead of talking about the Actions of the Current Islamic Believers TODAY.

To become an Islamic Jihadist is to become a Islamic "Superstar":

Inside Al Qaeda

http://www.newsweek.com/2010/09/04/inside-al-qaeda.html

I mentioned how children are given to Islam as Mandatory Islamic Tithes, indoctrinated into Islam, trained as Islamic Jihadists as soldiers fighting for Islam at post#2.38.

As far as how they are actually trained the most "prestigious" school for the Islamic Jihadists is at the Autonomous Kurdistanis Region. With Training by the Fundamentalist Islamic Republic of Iran's Special Forces, Quds, as Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency). It used to be here (Afghanistan) until some of the Teams linked up with the Northern Alliance that also hated the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists and did this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY. While our Teams (previous experience from Operation Cyclone, languages, culture, geography, etc.) when into the Afghan Cities and fought against the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists Militias (Army) of the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government. After we almost wiped out the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists they fled using the Old Silk Road into Northern Iraq with us in pursuit and fighting them as Ansar Al Islam as part of 2002-2003 Operation Hotel California.

Long before then, during Command and General Staff College and War College we were taught that the next Wars would be Asymmetric Warfare NOT Conventional Warfare after the defeat of the USSR. The term "Conventional Warfare" is derived from the 1907 Hague Convention and the 1949 Geneva Convention, as the Politicians attempts to make War "Civilized" (think about that for a second before you start to laugh your arse off).

The first attempt being the 1907 Hague Convention resulted in the stupidity of believing that it was a Honorable Death to run from trenches into machinegun fires, the idea that there were boundaries that could not be crossed (this carried over to the belief that Hitler would never let the German Army to go around the French Static Defenses (Maginot Line)).

The second attempt being the 1949 Geneva Conventions resulting in the belief that it was really smart to charge up hills into machinegun fires to hold the ground during the Korean "Conflict" (still a War).

Together the 1907 Hague Convention and the 1949 Geneva Convention basically caused the French to lose their Colony of French Indochina, as a failure to conduct French Conventional Warfare against Vietminh Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency); as Historically Conventional Warfare is an Automatic Loser against Asymmetric Warfare.

The second time together the 1907 Hague Convention and the 1949 Geneva Convention basically caused the US to lose Vietnam, as this time it was US Military Conventional Warfare versus North Vietnam's and the Viet Cong's Asymmetric Warfare.

The third time together the 1907 Hague Convention and the 1949 Geneva Convention basically caused the USSR 40th Army Occupation's Total Conventional Warfare to lose Afghanistan against our conducting US Military Asymmetric Warfare.

As just achieving a limited number of Strategic Asymmetric Warfare Goals negates the majority of Conventional Warfare Strategic Goals regardless of how many Battles the Conventional Warfare Forces have won.

So with that in mind, does that mean that we can take out any Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists wearing "Civilian" clothes and Summarily Execute them (no Hearings, no Trials, no Legal Representation, no Rights, etc. just lined up and executed) in accordance with the 1949 Geneva Convention regarding "Spies", "Espionage", etc.. That is what all of you are saying if you are saying adhere to the 1907 Hague Convention and 1949 Geneva Convention.

I already demonstrated that you are a blatant liar on page 12. A blatant, blatant liar. I don't need to spend another minute reading your overblown posts, because I know that you lie.

Hey Folks - I think war is a contact event that takes place after national foreign policy fails. To quote Sherman from the US Civil War era "war is hell" and in order to finish it quickly, one side must make the other side feel the pain so deeply that they capitulate immediately. A "patty cake" war allows the enemy to withstand little cuts indefinitely whereas cutting off the head of the snake works immediately

The war in Iraq was an error by George W. Bush.....there was NO Alquaeda in Iraq....they entered only after the USA shattered the Iraqui Government of Sadam Hussein

Our War-focus is against a splinter group, which calls itself Al Quaeda, Our focus is not and cannot be against Islam....the largest religion on Earth, AND the fastest growing religion on earth.

The splinter group of Al Quaeda is angry BECAUSE the USA and other western nations have occupied Muslim nations,such as Yemen and Kuwait, and Bahrain, and particularly Saudi Arabia...which is to Muslims what Rome was to Christians for 1500 years...it is considered to be defilement of their most sacred sites....

Moreover, Muslim-AlQuaeda members recognize that corrupt Arabs are working with the USA and other western nations in stealing OIL, which the average Muslim NEVER benefits from, as the corrupt Arab leaders live lives of luxury, protected from retaliation by religious Muslims, by the American and western military forces...our enemy is not the muslim religion....we are complicit in removing oil from muslin nations, which never benefits average citizens there.

Where is the public outcry from the "GOOD" Muslim community against those that would sully their religion.

Silence appears to be acceptance!

The guy who said "how are the muslim rdicals being taught?" Sums it up great...by saying that you are saying this is the same thing for our side..That they are teaching hate and murder of babies in America, just like they are for terrorists..great point stupid...But our soldiers Aren't supposed to be Christianity's Al Queda...This kind of story is put out to inflame Muslims and Christians...Our Elite want a terror attack...The American military complex Benefitted the most from 9/11...look how much money, weapons, power, and strength they have gained...Plus, Our military is at the binkinking point..every hour an American soldier attempts suicide...Now, If they were killing babies and mothers and the elderly all out, how would our soldiers come home? Get past your own Hatred for someone different than you, on both sides..I wonder how many Gov't agents are placing comments on here..Probabally 2...One crazy American..One Crazy Muslim...Wake Up...Think about what a story means..how they want you to react.. and what the real costs are...Our soldiers are the wost off ever! as far as morale goes...Stop trying to get them to do more killing...and get them to do more protecting...WELCOME TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER pawns

Mrwate--'great point stupid'? You just called me stupid? And altho I am a Christian (Catholic) I don't see why in your sarcasm you say we're not supposed to be Christian al queda. We are Christian but we are also Jewish, hindu, many things and we are just trying to not get overtaken and subjogated by the modern day nazis.

"how are the muslim rdicals being taught?"

from the public Broadcasting System, reporting on Saudi textbooks, and what they teach in the present day.

Benefits and Rules (Teachings)

1. God decreed for Ibn Nadhir tribe

One of the three Jewish tribes in Medina.The second to be exiled.

to leave their bastions and homes and left them for the Muslims. If they were not granted exile, they would have been tortured by God with murder and imprisonment,

in reality it would having been living humans (Muslims) doing the murder and the torture.not any God.

that was out of his mercy, beneficence and clairvoyance, and for the believers since He granted them (Muslims) their (Ibn Nadhir's) lands, homes, monies without having pained for it. God Says: "And had it not been that Allah had decreed for them the exile, He would certainly have punished them in this world"

2. The opposition of God and his Apostle and the opposition of His Sharia- is a reason for retribution of Allah

that is an important statement. All non-Muslims oppose sharia, making them open to "retribution"

that is what happened to the Jews of Ibn-Nadhir. God Says: "That is because they acted in opposition to Allah and His Apostle,and whoever acts in opposition to Allah, then surely Allah is severe in retributing (evil)"

This comment, could be considered in opposition to the 'allah' concept. I fear no rock (allah) personally, but I am weary of it's devotees.

3. When the Muslims besieged Ibn-Nadhirs, they had farms, palm trees outside of the bastions. So the Muslims had burned some of their palm trees and cut others. Some Muslims had condemned it thinking that all this will end up for the Muslims. But God had sent with this verse to express His support for the cutting and the devastation because it does humiliate and weaken the Jews

4.It's allowed to demolish, burn or destroy the bastions of the Kufar (infidels)- and all what constitutes their shield from Muslims if that was for the sake of victory for the Muslims and the defeat for the kufar

I am a kufar!

America is chock full of Kafur,we are a nation of kafar.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saudi/etc/textbooks.html

For all of you who think AlQueda rose out of nothing. It is time for you to read history. They are not new. That muslim attitude has been in existence since Islam first came out of the desert. Yes they brought great knowledge to the world. But what was the cost. If you were a pagan in Spain the cost was your life. How many times have muslim countries invaded Albania, Romania and even Austria? Thanks to Romania they only invaded Austria once. But they besieged Vienna to starve out the inhabitants at which point the Pope called on my people to go to their aid. Even those not at war with us have that attitude. The attitude that says it is alright to kill infidels (us) to lie to infidels (us) to cheat infidels (again us). When that attitude in Islam changes then I will trust muslims. In the meantime don't hurt me and I won't hurt you but I really don't want to spend time with anybody who thinks that way about me.

I've read some of this course curriculum and I find nothing in it that isn't the absolute truth because islam is indeed the antithesis of western civilization. Their goal, stated by many in that cult is to destroy the decadent west, even if they have to slaughter every man, woman, and child to accomplish it.

The countries in Europe that foolishly allowed unfettered immigration of these followers of the moon god are finding this out first hand.

Where were these people when the US soldiers were stationed in Saudi Arabia without Bibles to save that seventh century despotic, autocratic and bigoted Sunni ruler and his 5000 princes and princesses?

Under what laws, constitutions and rights they were stationed there?

These people should have protected their Saudi, Kuwaiti, UAE and other rulers.

So soldiers have to carry out dirty work for the fountainheads of Islamic radicalism and terrorism and funders and promoters of their Salaffi and Wahhabi mosques all over the world.

They are not human and they don't have any rights!!!!!

Drown em all in pig blood!

I don't have a problem with this course. We are fighting "civilians" in Afghanistan as the Taliban and Al Qaeda are not a recognized Army. They hide behind their neighbors during the day and then plant bombs at night. They don't have the balls to fight in the open because they know we will destroy them. Many of the locals materially support the insurgency, doesn't they make them our enemy?

How many of those supporters are non Muslims?

How many Madrassas in the middle east teach tolerance and peace?

I've spent a few years in various Muslim countries and for the most part, everyone was pretty radical about Islam. There is no freedom in an Islamic country, and the ultimate goal of Islam is to convert the world and rule it using Sharia law.

Convert to the religion of peace or die like the Infidels we are....

Hey Muslims - GET OVER IT, TRUTH HURTS!! Islam is a Violent Terrorist Organization that hides under the cover of being a "Religion". If their "ever" is another attack in the U.;S., Muslims should leave the U.S. immediately for their own protection.

What is the difference between teaching our soldiers to hate ALL Muslims and Muslims being taught to hate ALL westerners? NOTHING....and you end up with soldiers who go in a massacre men, women and children!! If you teach soldiers to be AWARE of ALL the dangers they may face... that is being intelligent, which, I know, OUR government isn't fond of.

There is an old, old saying i find particularly appropriate: "Know thine enemy." The problem we are having, in this country today, is knowing just who is our enemy. Is it the entire Muslim religion, or just a particular sect? Then again, it could be our very own national leaders, as they seem to want the same thing bin Laden wanted; absolute power for themselves and their cohorts.

The difference seems to be our soldiers do not hide behind their women, children, elders and religious edifices.

A note to CAIR -Americans by a wide majority approve of this course ! Kill'em all and let God sort'em out !!!

The only way to deal with Muslims is simple. Just train these Muslims here that ran away from "persacution" Now that the bad guys are out, give them some training and a gun, than ship them back to where they came from. It's very simple, OK you can stay a while till the Bad Guy is gone. Now you gotta go. Polital assylum doesn't mean you can stay forever. Every time we take out the bad guy the good guys take offence and say we are waring on their religion. By the way pick you Iraqi pals that ran from Sadam and take them with you.

LevTolstoi surely must be a Moslem. He hopes to make us turn the other cheek, so that they have less trouble changing this free country into another islamic dictatorship. We may be infidels, but we are not stupid ! Your people went and attacked police in Germany, totally unprovoked and beat up a journalist. Well, sorry, our Police and Military were trained differently. These courses only state facts and you do not need to deny it because it is as clear as day : you are striving for dominance and we, or those who defend us, need to know who they are dealing with. We are in a sense doing the dirty work of Moslems who are trying to be politically correct towards their own radical fringes. How freakish is that ?

And we don't think *others* have anti-American or anti-Christian materials to be used against us soon???!!! How STUPID are we? Are we REALLY that naive??? Grow a pair already! Or we can kiss our a**es & our way of life goodbye!

Academic freedom of expression would protect the professor at a civilian institution of "Higher?" learning, but even in that circumstance it would be extremely distasteful and inflamatory. At a government professionalization institution like the Joint Forces Staff College it is distasteful, inflamatory, AND improper. It teaches and supports breaking our laws. It must be stopped and the professor disciplined.

I am Anti-Muslim. I believe they are savages in both their practices and their beliefs. IMO, they are only 1/2 a step away from the cavemen in their culture. They are barbaric and as far as i'm concerned, their sole purpose in life is total world domination.

So with that said.....

This course is ridiculous and whoever authored it should be given the boot. The entire Chain of Command that approved this course should also be given the boot. Everybody involved with this ridiculous bull@!$%# should be kicked square in their collective asses on the way out.

This is as Anti-American as you can get. It goes against everything we are supposed to be about. I am firmly against the entire Muslim Culture. But I am MORE FOR the Rights we are supposed to cherish as Americans.....even when it benefits a group I am against. And the Lord knows if I had it my way, I'd have 'Nuked every Muslim Country known to support Terroism on 9/12/2001. Every @!$%#ing one of them. Then I'd have 'Nuked every Muslim country that protested our Nuking the other countries.

But we cannot just...discriminate against an entire Religion. We just can't. Freedom from that type of persecution was one of our Founding Fathers strongest fighting points. It's one of the strongest Rights we are supposed to have and believe in as Americans. It's right up there with Freedom of Speech and the Right to Bear Arms.

So in the end...and as much as it pains me to say it...this course is wrong and in no way should it ever be taught in an official capacity within our Government.

Period.

The war in Iraq was an error by George W. Bush.....there was NO Alquaeda in Iraq....they entered only after the USA shattered the Iraqui Government of Sadam Hussein

If you knew what I know, you would NOT say it was an error. Let's just say that even Bush at the time did not know how right he was and that this most important reason was of a nuclear nature. We'll leave it at that, for now, since all of the documents and video tape are classified. :)

Or nobody with a shred of morals has known about it.

It is WRONG.

so you are for Sharia Law Fred?... then leave the land of the free and the home of the brave.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfm1l9g8UAY&feature=related

Wake up2840

so you are for Sharia Law Fred?... then leave the land of the free and the home of the brave.

So you are for Biblical Law Wake...then leave the land of the free and the home of the brave.

OlDoc..., you'll never see evangelism in my comments. I believe in freedom, but Muslims do not; their "religion" is incompatible with our values.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKgaVaNagfM&feature=relmfu

Muslims will use light minded libbies like you to further their cause, but in the end they will not respect your rights unless you follow them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lUhlvFjXOQ

Watch this Ol Doc..., and educate yourself and others.

I noticed that the video you posted never actually quotes the Qur'an. Let's see how that goes:

"Allah does not forbid you respecting those who have not made war against you on account of (your) religion, and have not driven you forth from your homes, that you show them kindness and deal with them justly; surely Allah loves the doers of justice." - 60:8

That seems reasonable. Let's try again:

"Say: O unbelievers! I do not serve that which you serve, Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve: Nor am I going to serve that which you serve, Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve: You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion." - 109:1-6

You don't get much more tolerant then that. One last time:

"And do not covet that by which Allah has made some of you excel others; men shall have the benefit of what they earn and women shall have the benefit of what they earn; and ask Allah of His grace; surely Allah knows all things." - 4:32

Equal pay for equal work? Very progressive.

By the way, I would be suspicious of anyone talking about a global conspiracy aimed at world domination in a Germanic accent. Seriously, click on the link, that is exactly what it is.

4:32 Very progressive.

I have progressed two verses forward in the Quran. The misogynist violent, intolerant part is found there.

Muhammad Asad

MEN SHALL take full care of women with the bounties which God has bestowed more abundantly on the former than on the latter, and with what they may spend out of their possessions. And the righteous women are the truly devout ones, who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guarded. And as for those women whose ill-will you have reason to fear, admonish them [first]; then leave them alone in bed; then beat them; and if thereupon they pay you heed, do not seek to harm them. Behold, God is indeed most high, great!

M. M. Pickthall

Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Shakir

Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/4/34/default.htm

it's more prehistoric than progressive.

Not terribly enlightened, true, but neither is this:

"When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do."

Exodus 21:7

Actually, many prehistoric societies were matriarchal. In fact, the largest know Neolithic settelment, at Catalhoyuk, appears to have had no gender bias whatsoever, with the possible exception of Mother Goddess worship.

But your point, as a whole, is well taken. Islam, espeially as it is practiced in many countries today, does not have a very good record on women's rights, especially by modern Western standards.

On the other hand, they do sometimes let women become imamms.

Most discussion today is about symptoms. When a population faces feelings of hopelessness and despair for the future, they tend to radicalize. Now how a population gets there are by many means and can be debated. Certainty Germany before the Nazi party, and some of these middle east populations, have been in very dire conditions. Human psychology can be fairly predictable as an aggregate (not to the extent of Sheldon's mathematical sociology) and though regrettable, must not be handled with "kid gloves", lest civilization be dragged back into their pit of despair.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male
slaves do."

Got a source of a Jew or Christian acting on this in any way? in the last thousand years or so?

are Jews or Christians slave trading, as Muslim are doing right now in Africa

Simon Deng, a former slave from the Sudan, tells his story of enslavement, and emancipation, at Temple University.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tBWhK_iUh4&feature=colike

Islamic text supporting slavery.

The Book of Jihad and Expedition (Kitab Al-Jihad wa'l-Siyar)

Muslim :: Book 19 : Hadith 4292

Ibn 'Aun reported: I wrote to Nafi' inquiring from him whether it was necessary to extend (to the disbelievers) an invitation to accept (Islam) before m". ing them in fight. He wrote (in reply) to me that it was necessary in the early days of Islam. The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) made a raid upon Banu Mustaliq while they were unaware

These poor people, they was just hanging out, chillin really, getting thier thang on, and here comes this dude with an attitude problem,getting all rightious and @!$%#. Slaying, and enslaving people right out of the clear blue sky.

and their cattle were having a drink at the water. He killed those who fought and imprisoned others.

Mohammad oversaw the rape, pillage and enslavement of a people because he could, they never did a F***ing thing to him, the people never saw this @!$%# coming, they were unprepared.

On that very day,he captured Juwairiya bintal-Harith. Nafi' said that this tradition was related to him by Abdullah b. Umar who (himself) was among the raiding troops.

Jawairiya bintal-Harith, was captured as part of the "booty", but she was really "bootylicious"

So even though she was claimed as the spoils of war, by another Muslim jihadist. Mohammad just had to "hit dat @!$%#", you what I mean. And since Mohammad, was the apostle of 'allah' and all, he got the peice of ass he wanted. It's good to be king, or 'allah's apostle in this case.

Juwairiyah bint Al-Harith: Al-Harith was the head of Bani Al-Mustaliq of Khuza‘ah.Juwairiyah was among the booty that fell to the Muslims from Bani Al-Mustaliq. She was a portion of Thabit bin Qais bin Shammas’ share. He made her a covenant to set her free at a certain time. Muhammad accomplished the covenant and married her in Sha‘ban in the sixth year of Al-Hijra.

At some point in Islamic theocratic concepts it's possible for a non-Muslim woman to become the "property" or "Booty" of the group who took her, if justified by claims of Jihad (2:190), in a theocratic sense, as explained in (Quran 4;24) as well as (23;5-6) (24;33) and a few others. In the reliance of the traveler (a guide to sharia law) it says on page 276.

@O9.13 When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled.

Some historical context

The genocide of the Armenians was a jihad. No rayas [non-Muslim dhimmis] took part in it. Despite the disapproval of many Muslim Turks and Arabs, and their refusal to collaborate in the crime, these massacres were perpetrated solely by Muslims and they alone profited from the booty: the victims’ property, houses, and lands granted to the muhajirun [“holy warrior” jihadists], and the allocation to them of women and child slaves.

http://www.andrewbostom.org/blog/2012/04/24/jihad-denial-and-armenian-genocide-remembrance/

that's just a goddess worshiping Irish pagan's perspective

Since Mohammad is considered the perfect in Islamic theology, and as this above linked hadith shows, he was a rapist. We see things like this as part of the ongoing jihad in Nigeria.

Nigeria's rape survivors: Sarah's story, part 1 | Radio Netherlands Worldwide

"I was raped"

The armed Fulani men

Only if you know that the Fulani tribe started the Jihad in the beginning of the nineteenth century, starting a mini Nigerian caliphate, would you know they were Muslim

took the girls to a deserted nearby village. “It was a big house and we were kept in different rooms,” Sarah says. “Later in the evening, I heard the door open and a man came into the room. He started undressing without saying anything to me. I was very afraid because I was only sixteen years of age at that time.”

“I stood on my feet and begged him to leave me alone. He jumped on me and pinned me to the bare floor. That was how I lost my virginity. After him another man came in, but when he noticed I was bleeding, he slapped me on the face and left.”

The next day I was served ground nuts by a woman. I asked her for water, which she brought. I drank it even though it was dirty, then washed myself with what remained. About two days after I was raped, the man that slapped me came back. He raped me again. After him, two other men came in. I fainted. When I woke up, I couldn’t stand. I was raped every day until I finally escaped about a week or so later.

To read part 2 of Sarah's story, click here.

Things like that were carried out on a bigger scale during the Bangladesh genocide, hundreds of thousands of women were systematical raped, in Rape camps by the Pakistani army and the religious militia helping in the killings. THREE MILLION Bangladeshi citizens were killed.

It's a very effective terror tactic.

Those who are opposing this training should go to some Muslim nation.

Some are yet to come to 21st century and realities.

Are else who would go for Iraqi wars to save that beastly Kuwaiti barbaric ruler with 65 wives (1991 war)?

Who will imagine doing dirty jobs for the Sunni Saudi beasts & co in Iran and Syria?

For a change let the Sunnis and Shiites battle themselves and decide the winner.

Land of the free home of the brave? More like land of the morbidly obese home of the worst education system in the developed world.

trantham, you are one of the ones the rest of us have to keep an eye on.

Bill Morin

WHY is that?

Al-Queda and terrorists everywhere are celebrating this article! dont you people see how this justifies everything they do? They want the west to Kill Innocent Muslims just as Bad As you Wacky, silly fake patriots! Every time you people say you wnt Civilians slaughtered, you are supporting the Terrorists, thanx for justifying their cause, and making them happy ...You Terrorists! Tranthem: You ARE the enemy..not peaceful Muslims...unless your a gov't agent..lol

correction! anyone who believes or follows Islam is guilty by the very nature of the religion itself! Instead of preaching peace and love it says to kill anyone who does not believe as they do!

I for one say it is about time our people see them as they really are. If we have to make war against them to protect ourselves then so be it. Lets start by dropping form ten thousand feet all of the asses who back this political correct bull@!$%#!

I agree with Steve605134. Most people do not understand the culture of Islam or the history. It is violent against others as well as its own people. There are no such things as freedom and human rights in an Islamic country. Most of the people commenting on this understand that.

God said in the New Testament if you have two cloaks, sell one and buy a sword. He does not imply that we should lay down and be doormats, but that we should defend ourselves and our brothers.

ANTI AMERICAN REPUBLICANS Your NAZI IDEALLOGY ATTACKED US IN 1939-1942 Burn in hell protestants. White power nazi religonist nuts. YOu attacked AMerica Before Mulisums DID SCUMBAGS

Trantham, that is pretty funny. Unfortunately for you, the Nazis were Germany's National Socialist Party. It is the Democrats rather than Republicans who lean toward socialist ideas. Just saying.

Oh, and kpr37? "Theocratic sense" applies more to Jehovah's Witnesses than to Muslims. Try to find a more useful term.

In addition, your citations from http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/4/34/default.htm and your accompanying interpretations are removed from the context of the meaning. The passage refers to women who are rebellious enough to cheat on their husbands and become unchaste. It is a list of progressive penalties which are allowed in such circumstances. The key to the meaning of the sentences at the end are contained in the phrase "who guard the intimacy which God has [ordained to be] guarded" in the midst of the sentence. Also, most English translations omit the correct meaning of "beat" in the passage. It is not a life-threatening beating or one that causes injury.

A few translations insert the clarification (most of these you cannot find online but one) phrase "(lightly, if it is useful)" into the translation because that has been the historical meaning behind the word and phrase. I wish all of the translations would do the same. But, in any case, it is not the kind of beating that would lead to injury or loss of life. Unfortunately, most English readers are not going to be aware of either context of meaning of the original text and culture. (Note: The worse penalty for adultery, which was the kind of scourging or lashes that could lead to injury, required four witnesses to allow a court administer the penalty).

The next verse refers to the final step in possible divorce, which an attempt in arbitration is to be made for reconciliation. Avoidance of divorce is better and that they learn to get along is the better way.

your accompanying interpretations are removed from the context of the meaning.

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/dawud/011.2142.html

Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah)

Dawud :: Book 11 : Hadith 2142

Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.

Dawud :: Book 11 :: Hadith 2137:

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri:

Mu'awiyah asked: Apostle of Allah, what is the right of the wife of one of us over him? He replied: That you should give her food when you eat, clothe her when you clothe yourself, do not strike her on the face, do not revile her or separate yourself from her except in the house.

Dawud :: Book 11 :: Hadith 2138

Narrated Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah:

I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.

Dawud :: Book 11 :: Hadith 2139

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri:

I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them.

Dawud :: Book 11 :: Hadith 2141

Narrated Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab:

Iyas ibn Abdullah ibn AbuDhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) as saying: Do not beat Allah's handmaidens, but when Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them. Then many women came round the family of the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) complaining against their husbands. So the Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) said: Many women have gone round Muhammad's family complaining against their husbands. They are not the best among you.

Just a little bit more historical context for the readers, which you, kpr37, again omit. :)

This agrees with the verse of the Qur'an which you brought up and which I mentioned concerning the context of the meaning which you omitted. Let me add the following:

As usual, the missionaries ran out of arguments, so they tend to repeat arguments (acting as if they are "further examinations). James Arlandson, writes an article about a very famous argument, that wife beating is allowed in Islam. For one thing, we do not deny this, however, the missionary argument is that wife beating is abusive, and harsh. In response to this claim, Muhammad Asad says, in his Commentary for Sura 4:34 says:

"It is evident from many authentic Traditions that the Prophet himself intensely detested the idea of beating one's wife, and said on more than one occasion, "Could any of you beat his wife as he would beat a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?" (Bukhari and Muslim). According to another Tradition, he forbade the beating of any woman with the words, "Never beat God's handmaidens" (Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Ibn Hibban and Hakim, on the authority of Iyas ibn ?Abd Allah; Ibn Hibban, on the authority of ?Abd Allah ibn ?Abbas; and Bayhaqi, on the authority of Umm Kulthum). When the above Qur'an-verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have said: "I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing - and what God has willed must be best" (see Manar V, 74). With all this, he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that beating should be resorted to only if the wife "has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct", and that it should be done "in such a way as not to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih)"; authentic Traditions to this effect are found in Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these Traditions, all the authorities stress that this "beating", if resorted to at all, should be more or less symbolic - "with a toothbrush, or some such thing" (Tabari, quoting the views of scholars of the earliest times), or even "with a folded handkerchief" (Razi); and some of the greatest Muslim scholars (e.g., Ash-Shafi'i) are of the opinion that it is just barely permissible, and should preferably be avoided: and they justify this opinion by the Prophet's personal feelings with regard to this problem.(Quran Ref: 4:34 ) "

(Source: http://www.islamicity.com/QuranSearch/)

Tafsir Jalalyn states:

"Men are in charge of, they have authority over, women, disciplining them and keeping them in check, because of that with which God has preferred the one over the other, that is, because God has given them the advantage over women, in knowledge, reason, authority and otherwise, and because of what they expend, on them [the women], of their property. Therefore righteous women, among them, are obedient, to their husbands, guarding in the unseen, that is, [guarding] their private parts and otherwise during their spouses' absence, because of what God has guarded, for them, when He enjoined their male spouses to look after them well. And those you fear may be rebellious, disobedient to you, when such signs appear, admonish them, make them fear God, and share not beds with them, retire to other beds if they manifest such disobedience, and strike them, but not violently, if they refuse to desist [from their rebellion] after leaving them [in separate beds]. If they then obey you, in what is desired from them, do not seek a way against them, a reason to strike them unjustly. God is ever High, Great, so beware of Him, lest He punish you for treating them unjustly."

(http://muslim-responses.com/Wife_beating/Wife_Beating)

Notice that the latter quote in this quote comes from one of your favorite Tafsirs? In any case, it does not matter whether someone is questioned or not. What matters is that the beating mentioned in the Qur'an is neither life-threatening nor permanently injurious. Anything of that nature is exceeding the limits.

And, it also does not change the fact that you left out the cultural context and meaning initially, as you did here yet again, which I am certain you will continue to do. :)

Come one, kpr, this is not that hard--and I am a fellow kafir, although most Muslims would class me as being among the People of the Book.

You're copy-pasting with out linking again. That is plagiarism. Please link your sources

According to a Human Rights Watch report, it is estimated that up to 90% of women in Pakistan are victims of domestic abuse. The public flogging of the girl in Swat, presents an endemic social problem in heightened form. Aurat Foundation believes that, in one out of every three households, there is violence against women. Violence takes the form of beating, torture, rape, burning, confinement and even murder. And regardless of which statistic you believe, (and I know that statistics can be tricky!) we have to admit that Pakistani women face staggering amounts of violence (see here and here and here).

These acts of violence cannot be attributed to American drones, RAW or the Zionists. The causes are internal and require us to take a good look at what we are teaching our boys that turns them into barbarians capable of inflicting such harm on an innocent and unarmed human being.

http://pakistaniat.com/2010/05/10/pakistan-domestic-violence/

and I am a fellow kafir

Who is "devoted" to making sure the glorious religion of the prophet is never disparaged, or cast in a bad (truthful) light.

Hi, I'm the "tooth fairy", pleased to meet you. (LOL)

http://youtu.be/t1pil4zArzE (interesting questions about the verse)

http://youtu.be/mr-vt2DTCFw (Islamic scholar explaining the verse)

You're copy-pasting with out linking again. That is plagiarism. Please link your sources

It is the very same source that you use. In fact, I used the link that you gave to get there. I then hit the buttons in said source to go back to the context of the quote you provided. So, as to the charge of plagiarism, it does not apply. The source for each quote is given and I am not trying to pass off the references as my own work. I link where necessary. In other cases I give the source and leave it up to others to find the source and look it up. In any case I give the source. By the way, I do not always cite from online sources.

According to a Human Rights Watch report...

I trust Human Rights Watch like I would trust a member of the Hamas to have my back. I have seen many inaccuracies in their work and claims over the decades of my life, and it pisses me off. They often misrepresent the data.

Even still, all this does is offer evidence that those Pakistani men are exceeding the limits and proves nothing more regarding Islam and the Qur'an than that there are those who exceed the limits.

Who is "devoted" to making sure the glorious religion of the prophet is never disparaged, or cast in a bad (truthful) light.

What I am devoted to is truth and context. I hate to watch people lie about other peoples religions and take religious texts out of context. You just don't like it one bit.

Hi, I'm the "tooth fairy", pleased to meet you. (LOL)

Believe whatever you want but I stated the truth and nothing fanciful. I know what I am. You, on the other hand, prefer fantasy.

I watched the videos. They are crap, especially the first one with the woman. Got something better? She cannot believe the bit about a toothstick/toothbrush? Using a toothstick/toothbrush is supposed to be an annoyance rather than injurious. Trust me when I say that many women can only stand an annoyance for so long before they do something to stop receiving the annoyance.

I have never so much as laid a hand upon my wife in a violent manner. When she has gotten obstinate I annoy her by touching her repeatedly with my fingertip until she gets very angry. Eventually, she "blows up," we sleep separately for the night, and then we are fine the next day, with no more obstinancy on her part for a while.

Even still, it is even for interpreters of the Qur'an a very last resort before the next verse governs toward arbitration and possibly divorce. Once again, however, the context of the "last resort" option is that it relates to chastity and other concerns. And, this last video you show is of one man's interpretation in a broadcast sermon in Qatar. So what? I provided the context and the cultural meaning behind the verse. Why bother showing us videos of those willing to exceed limits? All it shows are people willing to exceed limits. What has that to do with Muhammad and the Qur'an? That is like equating the acts of the Crusades with all Christians. It is no better an approach than that. So, why bother doing it?

Are you aware that people can cite acts of atrocity even concerning your own religion, kpr? How would you feel were people to do that and say that you must be a bad person or that your religious traditions are all bad because of those atrocities? Think about it.

Are you aware that people can cite acts of atrocity even concerning your own religion, kpr?

Ah, no they can not, I'm an Irish pagan, a child of the goddess Danu (Tuatha De' Danann) in Gaelic.

The only text of my religion was re-written by Christians in the 11th century, and no one alive knows what was written in it before. In fact Irish "monotheistic" paganism is not really a religion as you understand the word.

We claim no certainty in a God, it's existence, one way or another, matters little to the pagan philosophy I follow.

Reality, logic and reason, are the only pagan objects of worship the "holy trinity" if you will. They all exist in the human mind. The "Logos" of the "Divine".

http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/celtic/irish/lebor.html

How would you feel were people to do that and say that you must be a bad person

the actions of my ancestors, or what people claim they did, matters not at all to me. I could give two @!$%#s.

or that your religious traditions are all bad because of those atrocities? Think about it.

you don't have a @!$%#ing clue about the traditions of Irish paganism. Do you? (LOL)

Welcome to the Temple http://www.danann.org/

The only text of my religion was re-written by Christians in the 11th century and not one alive knows what was written in it before.

Wow, that must really make it hard to practice in any authenticity, then.

so you would be ok if an instructor said to kill all russians, or chinese, or jews, or hindus?

I would be o.k. if the instructor said to kill the enemies of the US, whomever they are, Muslims are the ones that chose to be the enemies of the US.

I would be o.k. if the instructor said to kill the enemies of the US, whomever they are, Muslims are the ones that chose to be the enemies of the US.

Then what about Tim McVeigh? Terry Nichols? William Luther Pierce? I can go on...but one denominator is that none were Muslim.

I suppose you would say that Shaq, Kareem, Ali, and everyone else are terrorists. Your words are more a reflection of yourself, and that is all I have to say.

What the report does is cherry pick every bit of excessive rhetoric in the courses and then paints ALL criticism of Islam as coming from racist or bigoted thinking. It sets the table for Islam's industry of grievance and victimization in the U.S., led by C.A.I.R., to demand that a whitewashed picture of Islam be taught that leaves out all the nastiness in it that teaches Muslims to strive for supremacy over all others until Allah's Law (Sharia) is obeyed by everyone. Violence is clearly and repeatedly sanctioned for Muslims striving to achieve this supremacist goal. How about we have an HONEST debate about what Islam means for Non-muslims! It's an ugly topic but that makes it even more important to honestly and openly address it. Just because a course or two in the military might have gone astray, is no reason to stop telling the ugly truth about Islam.

shoot kill all the chirstians they attack america first and alot more times

Hey Adam

I hope you are well :) and as strange as this will sound I pretty much agree with you here I mean of course this article cherry picks all the worst parts and paints it as the whole course, but then that’s because MSNBC (like all media outlets) have an agenda and only want people to know select things, still if even a fraction of this stuff is true then personally I cannot say I’m surprised, I mean it just boils down to Americans advocating genocide against Muslims and it’s not like we haven’t heard that before eh? Lol

As for debating Islam, well, let’s face it nobody really wants to do that do they? Most people just want to sound out their rhetoric/beliefs and do their best to paint everybody who disagrees with them as either evil or stupid (etc.) But hey I’m guessing it’s something to past the time eh?

Republicans hate freedom this REpublican is attacks Freedom of the press. They want to take your rights away then rule you.

Here is more proof that the Elite are trying to bring about a new world order and trying to force Revelations to come true. This is an attack on Christianity as well as Muslims..Because you are meant to see this and Damn either Muslims for being radical or Christians for being radical...You people would gladly murder women and children because of their religous beliefs?...Both "Normal" Christians and Muslims are the Enemy of the Elite and their goals. There is a hidden Satanic influence in the Gov't's across the world. Also, You cant wipe out a religion even if you wanted to...You cant kill an Idea...Fundamental Christians are twisting the the bible around to promote the Devil's agenda, samething with Islam ...Believe me, the people at the top of both radical sides know who they are working for. It's the people they convince that think they are on the side of the rightous...Dont you see how brilliantly the Devil decieves? You have people commit attocities for the devil, while they think they are fighting for God..Genius..You think its a coincidence that they are preaching the same thing that Neo-Nazi's preach? A Holy war. After you wipe out the Muslims who will be the next target? Baptists? Protestants? buddists? Blacks? jews? etc.. Hate is the policy of the elite...And the fudamentalists on both sides are about eliminating freedom

After you wipe out the Muslims who will be the next target? Baptists? Protestants? buddists? Blacks? jews? etc.. Hate is the policy of the elite...And the fudamentalists on both sides are about eliminating freedom.

Awesome.

And thats a vision most people do not have. It is also a point I have been trying to pound into people for quite some time now. They just do not get it. Our Government has used our Nations fear after 9/11 to pass a large amount of Laws that although on the surface appear to be for battling "Terrorism", are actually Laws that eliminate many of our basic American Rights. Nobody read the fine print.

It's much like all the Laws that passed during the 80's and 90's due to the so-called War on Drugs. People simply didn't read the fine print and it caused a chaos thyat is still in effect.

Like you said. Today it's the Muslims. Who will it be tomorrow?

I would be o.k. if the instructor said to kill the enemies of the US, whomever they are, Muslims are the ones that chose to be the enemies of the US.

But, not all of them are or were of that mindset. That is the problem with the courses. The courses imply that all Muslims are the enemy. That is not the case.

Republicans hate freedom this REpublican is attacks Freedom of the press. They want to take your rights away then rule you.

Actually, it is the Democrats that want to heavily burden us with taxes and insert government into every aspect and every facet of our lives, bending us to the whims of government. All of their legislation tends toward that end.

Republicans, on the other hand, tend toward deregulation to allow more businesses to compete and so that everyone has more freedom to gain (or even lose) from the system than with more regulation and taxation.

Read the full text of the kinds of legislation that come from the dominant party of the time in Congress and judge for yourself. If you read and study enough of it you will see a consistent pattern on each side emerge.

AND SO DOES the South. Remember evil one Christians attack American first and alot more time then Islam. Your just trying to scare peole into taking your white power idealoigy

we could not have beaten the Germans or the Japanese with this generation of libbies in charge..., and the world would be a much different place.

we could not have beaten the Germans or the Japanese with this generation of libbies in charge..., and the world would be a much different place.

Strange, when you consider that FDR was a Democrat...or as you would say, one of those "libbies". So much for tolerance...

He wasn't just a Democrat, he was a big-government, redistribute the wealth, regulate the economy Democrat!

Mr. Sanders:

FDR, by today's standards, would be more like Ronald Reagan. and not all Democrats are Liberal, nor all Republicans Conservative. They are called, by most Political Scientists, catch-all parties.

Vice President Henry Wallace is much closer to the current Liberal Model. And he was dumped by FDR in 1944 in favor of Truman, who definitely was a hawk.

That FDR was a hawk was actually the point.

FDR was a turning point ------it's been down hill ever since.

Down hill to what? Being the most powerful, wealthiest, most advanced nation the world has ever seen?

hamjam: And the main reason the US became "the most powerful, wealthiest, most advanced nation the world has ever seen": World War II left most of our competition in ruins taking decades to catch up: Japan, Germany, Russia, France, etc. China, India & Brazil were thatch hut societies.

Most advanced nation? Have you ever been to Mississippi? It's worse than Honduras.

Wake up2840

FDR was a Democrat tard

Republicans make their own American history I guess. LOL and they are tell me they are not Nazi wanting to kill 1.5 billion people That is Nazi by FAR

Republicans And al-Qaeda are the same but a diffrent religon. They both Hate America just as much. Use there Childred for terorism. Think they are superior beings. Why do they hate each other so much LOL. They are the same

MG71

Yeh Republican anti-American. I don't think we hurt Germany, and Japan I think we forgave them and we are ally's now. Go back to school.

Germany would still be 2 diffrent country. and you know I am thankful for that Because most of the world respects us. well but the hateful republicans no one likes them

If you are so AMerican why does it say big Brother. Your Just like the Nazi Kill everyone that is not like you. LOL good thing is you Tards don't have the Balls to do anything. You all are just hot air. You will never be voted in again. and are way to weak to take over thank goodness!

all Muslim organizations. Islam and democracy are not compatible.

It has been proved that Muslims can't be good citizens in a democracy.

It's sad how un-American you are. If we are throwing anyone out, lets start with people like you.

EngEsq, all you're doing is providing comfort to the enemy. Isn't that treason?

The fundamental christians are as dangerous as the extreme muslims. If you don't know the difference, you aren't paying attention.

Okay I agree with EngEsq...so I guess I am providing comfort to the enemy. Lets see I guess I would have to be since I am married to a Naturalized US citizen who was born in Pakistan, is a Muslim, and oh, a US soldier.

Now you can throw him out...but can you take his place in the military? Hmm lets see, you have to be able to get TP clearance, be college educated (Master's), be able to "talk" to the bad guys, have respect of a lot of different kinds of people, be so good at your job that you will be requested to come to DC. Yeah, maybe not for you guys.

Also throw out all Muslims? Even those born in the US and are American citizens? Where would they go? My children can't speak my husband's native language and I am English, Welsh, Irish, German.....maybe one of those countries?

Now I could try to change your minds about Muslims, but I won't bother....small minds and all that. I won't be able to change your mind because you have reached what you believe because of your life, experiences (or lack thereof), and what you were taught by your parents. It takes a big person to be able to rethink their positions and I really can't see that happening with you guys and people like you.

Oh and in today day and age, you might want to rethink your "lets round them up and throw them out". First America will NEVER be able to say a word to ANY country about human rights, second you would create such hatred towards America (which might be what you want....treason anyone?), and third we are Americans and we do love to sue......so would you be willing to pay the fines? Yeah probably not.

So sit in your chairs and be brave on the computer because in real life people probably don't listen to you guys very much, or perhaps listen to with an air of amusement (oh there they go again)?

...oh we listen, and its not with an air of amusement. Its with attentive, open minded-ness because we want to know more about all sides, especially possible enemies.

And how would you sue if you're thrown out??

Thanx mmhaq, and you're right, it's not even worth the effort to debate the issue with these bigots. They let fear and hate rule their minds and morals...kinda like Al-Qaeda.

Who paid for his education? Taxpayers. Why would we want to talk to our enemies? He is called to DC to do what? tell our idiot politicians that the muslims are our friends, and give them all kinds of aid so they can build bombs, train terrorists? Good job your husband is doing talk about treason. And of course the first thing out of your mouth is "SUE". So tired of all these muslims being so offended by America and what we stand for, leave if you must, just stop the belly aching about everything unmuslim. WE ARE NOT A MUSLIM COUNTRY. Enough said.

mama,are you seriously stupid enough to think that its a good idea to send people over to a country and occupy them and have no translators to communicate with the people that live there. Are you seriously stupid enouhg to think our soldiers dont need intelligence that we intercept from cell phone calls? Who is going to translate those?

Your a hatemongering bigot. Its that simple. I know you for what you are. I recognize the same tired arguments that people have used for centuries. Whip up a frenzy against a particular people and use them to distract from the real problems,and use it to take away peoples rights. If you can "round up" all the muslims,you can do the same to gays,blacks,athiests,communists,capitalists,mexicans and anyone else you can tag with a nice simple label. It all depends on who is opposing you this week. I know where this goes. Ive seen it before.

WE ARE NOT A FASCIST COUNTRY. Enough said!

Where do people come off saying that a particular group should be thrown out of this country?
Contrary to what you believe, this country was not built by white anglo-saxon protestants alone.
Maybe someone else takes offense at YOUR beliefs and thinks YOU should be thrown out.

Get rid of the christians I tell you They Kill many more AMericans then Islam! BY FAR

mmhag; You must really have some "Life Experiences" married to someone who may or may not translate what he hears correctly. I can't think of a better way to hurt the people that have declared war on you and your religion. Masters degree that must really put you a cut above the people you talk down to.

mmhaq is right about the "small minds" thing, at any rate.

mmhaq is right about the "small minds" thing, at any rate.

Yes, she is. It is unfortunate but true.

Dooley has commited crimes agaist the UCMJ. He shoed up to the Repulican primary in U.S.A. Army greens . He should have been kick out then

G. McConnell, you have it backwards, it is the President's policies that are anti-American.

No CEO2NV2, you are as bad as Hitler and the his view of the Jews. Tell me the difference. The irony is that the first 5 books of the bible are the same as the koran. Do the research. It's the Ted Nugent mentality and it's frightening. We came to America from England to get away from the intolerance of religious freedom. The Extreme MUSLIMS ARE DANGEROUS but they are very different from just regular Muslims...Kind of like the Westboro Baptists that picket the funerals of our soldiers. Those F*cks are the dangerous ones and it sounds like some of you are too. Grow up and read some.

We didnt defeat Hitler by being a better fascist than the Nazis. We didnt defeat Communism by becomeing a better Comminist than Lenon. We wont defeat radical Islamists by being better terrorists than they are. We will defeat our enemies as we have allways defeated our enemies. By being the best Americans we can be. By exemplifying the virtues and freedoms that we hold dear. If we do that,our enemies cannot win. If we dont,they already have.

We didn't defeat Hitler by being a better fascist than the Nazis. We didn't defeat Communism by becoming a better Communist than Lenin. We wont defeat radical Islamists by being better terrorists than they are. We will defeat our enemies as we have always defeated our enemies. By being the best Americans we can be

Well put.

We didnt defeat Hitler by being a better fascist than the Nazis. We didnt defeat Communism by becoming a better Comminist than Lenin. We wont defeat radical Islamists by being better terrorists than they are. We will defeat our enemies as we have allways defeated our enemies. By being the best Americans we can be.......

and that means if they meet our troops on the battlefield armed we kill them until no one wants to meet us there any longer.

The military is the tool of diplomacy that will make negotiation work by making the alternative so horrible it will not be the tool of choice for our enemies. The sheep that attempts to lie with the lion is volunteering to be lunch.

We are the Lions.

Extreme MUSLIMS ARE DANGEROUS but they are very different from just regular Muslims.

Diverdown1, you just keep telling yourself that. Normally, I could care less about what religion they were, but that seems to be the common thread that binds them instead of a nationality. As for those Muslims that are U.S. citizens by birth or otherwise, I see a group of intolerant people that want to put their view of the world, their oppressive values, ahead of being an American and to set aside the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. Some of them are even trying to get Sharia law incorporated into the laws of some states. Maybe you can find a few exceptions, but survey after survey has indicated that the majority of Muslims, radicalized or not, think 9-11 and other violence against the U.S. is okay. The deafening silence we heard from so-called peaceful Muslims here and elsewhere around the globe after 9-11 actually said a lot. To this day we've still not heard the Muslim leadership in this country condemn the attacks with any vigor. No, instead we have Muslim nut jobs like Louis Farrakhan telling us we got what we deserved. Then go on spewing anti-Christian, anti-Semitic rhetoric. So while some may not take up arms against the U.S., they are content to watch their fellow Muslims try to exterminate us.

We know one thing for sure, perhaps not all Muslims are terrorist, but all terrorists are Muslim. I don't care whether they are Muslims, Germans or Canadians, if a group of people have made it clear they want us all dead, I don't think we have to take the time to separate the good ones from the bad ones, the good ones are going to have to come forward and help us make the distinction. That isn't happening. I don't think when we were carpet bombing the North Vietnamese or the Germans or the Japanese we had the luxury of distinguishing between the "good" ones that didn't want a war with the U.S. and the "bad" ones that intended to annihilate us. Not if you intend to win a war and survive another day.

@CEO, yes the presidents policies are un-American, because nothing is more Amerikkkan than being a morbidly obese dumb a$$.

CEO2NV2,

I want to see your proof that most muslims think that violence against the US is okay. You can't just throw out statements like that without backing them up.

First of all, I am not a liberal, but "hatred" amongst any GROUP is wrong. However, Muslims are directed to eliminate non-Muslims world wide. The information above, if I read it correctly, is part of a college course in military training. Are we now going to limit freedom of speech? What about discussions and teachings on evolution vs. creationism (oh, I forgot. You can't teach creationism)? Are we going to remove certain college courses because the ancient Greeks and Romans believed in mythical gods? Stop this nonsense, return to the Constitution of the United States of American. Remove from office those who will not uphold our rights and re-establish the ethics, morals and freedom that has made us so great.

ok hitler...

englishesq??? ISSAHaalimistzz & HITLER were in bed "together" (ALLIES) uno!!!

Right alongside Prescott Bushy. You could just GOOGLE IT to see for yourself, uno-it-2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HTSwUig2-0&feature=related

libbies can not stand the truth, and they will act "shocked" when European countries start becoming Muslim nations.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dULnV91EQI8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQrvObop3E&feature=related

I do not. I believe that Islamists may do as their religion and ther geo-political goals demand...until or if they engage in armed conflict with the United States. On that day we need to unleash our military and make the price of conflict with us so high they seek the negotiating table. Diplomacy only works when the alternative costs more than your adversaries will pay.

Hey evil Republicans check this out you going to hunt me down now??? LOL

I believe Chirstianity is danger to peoples freedom everywhere and Chirstianity should be removed from this earth

IRONFORCE

Your just madbecause you are now held accountable for your actions and can't get away with that much anymoe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQrvObop3E&feature=related

you have no idea..., it is going to get a lot worse unless libbies like you wake up.

Enemies of the Bill of Rights, basic human rights, and or international law: Bush-Cheney, Gingrich, all of FoxNews, Santorum, Scalia, et al, Wall Street Banks, Rumsfeld, Gonzalez, Libby, Rice, Wolfowitz, Feith, Blackwater- Academi and DYNCorp, Rupert Murdoch, wacko war-mongering Red State fascists like Paul Ryan and Eric Cantor, most of the Pentagon, Netanyahu, the Saudi Royal Pedophiles...

WESTBORO BAPTIST CHURCH...nuff said. Those people scare me more than any muslim.

Enemies of the United States and its Constitution: Obama-Biden, Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Wasserman-Shultz, Dean, Kerry, Holder, Napolitano, Sebelius, Jarret, Jones, Plouffe, Clinton, Waters, Sharpton, Panetta, Axelrod, Chu, Geithner, Emanuel, Frank, Franken, Carney, Gibbs, Warren, the DNC, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS, CNN, wacko-Blue State pacifists like Penn, Clooney, Streisand, etc., etc., etc.

Know you enemy? Hatred.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQrvObop3E&feature=related

it isn't hatred..., it is naivete.

CEO2NV2: You are not much for originality are you? Actors and actresses having the same political policy influence as the felon Scooter Libby or Foxnews? LOL.

Apparently, they have more, since they are the leading group attempting to buy BHO a second term.

DUH44, like YOURS was original? You can't even tell when you're being mocked. You're indicative of why the Left is so clueless when it comes to the real world.

I'm thinking we should split the country in two and watch you surrender your piece to an enemy's advancing army. You don't even have the courage or willpower to defend yourselves. By the time you work out the politically correct protocol by which to execute your idea of diplomacy (surrender in your case), you'll all be dead or oppressed by your new masters. Cowards one and all. So afraid you might offend someone that you flush your entire civilization down the drain in the process.

A good example is how you Lefties have decided to handle Iran. Obama's brainstorm of extending a hand of friendship and diplomacy is working JUST great at containing Iran, isn't it? They've not only continued their pursuit of a nuclear weapon, they've actually sped up the process because they see no threat that will impede them. They are laughing at Obama. He's a joke. His foreign policy is a joke. He's impotent and they don't respect him AT ALL. Left to your own devices, you'd be conquered by an enemy in no time. You guys can't even bring yourselves to call terrorists terrorists. Brought to us by the same clowns that want to call illegal immigrants "undocumented workers" instead. Pathetic.

There's a very fine line between Congressional "interference" and Congress merely exercising its Constitutional "oversight" function as the Founders intended. For all its shortcomings, Congress is all that there is in this government to express the will of the American people. None of the Founders would've agreed that the military should be allowed to govern itself, unchecked and free of all "interference", with the elected representatives of the American people serving only as the place to send the bill.

Gee and Congress has done such a great job expressing the American Peoples wishes. They express their own wishes, idiotic or not.

Sigh. Some education for you......Jihad means "struggle", it doesn't mean war. You could do jihad against smoking, drinking, really bad drivers.

Christians, Jews, and Muslims are considered "People of the Book". That means they are not "infidels". Of course you do have extreme Muslims who do want to kill everyone, but that is a small minority.
They don't like Americans right now because of politics, etc.

And no Christian men have ever raped, tortured women (pimps anyone?), correct? I mean really.

I know this is just a little bit of education and not nearly enough to "help" you. I suggest that you overcome your fear and actually talk to a Muslim. Ask them, talk to them, listen to them. You might be surprised at what you learn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQrvObop3E&feature=related

you are lying or naivete..., or you just can not handle the truth.

Give me a break...If there is hate talk against Christians then that is just A ok with all the liberals!

MMhag...Jjihad..yes does mean struggle and it can also refer to the struggle against Infidels which gives them the right to kill.... according to their backward book the narok( thats spelt backward for the effect)....so they call us.

Also NO Christian groups except in the crusades who wee at war, have done terrorists acts in the name of JESUS.l Just find me one.

Hey, BabyRoses7, are you one of those evangelical Christians whose goal is to convert the whole world to Christianity and want the U.S. to be governed according to Blblical beliefs? Can you explain to me how that is any different from the supposed aim of all Muslims to convert all non-Muslims and impose Sharia law?

Also NO Christian groups except in the crusades who wee at war, have done terrorists acts in the name of JESUS.l Just find me one.

The Ku Klux Klan, the Army of God, Christian Identity, the IRA, and that little cluster with Tim McVeigh and Terry Nichols. And there's probably more where they came from, and they all "purported" to serve "God and Jesus". Funny way to show your faith, isn't it?

MMhaq:

Correct me if I wrong, but isn't the actual text of Jihad more of a spiritual struggle against ones own sinful desires rather than other people.

I have not read the actual passage of the Qua ran to verify this. I do know the Apostle Paul wrote in Ephesians 6:12 "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places." (King James Version) To make it brief: Satan and his Demons are the enemy, not other people.

Cheers :)

What MMhaq is essentially correct. The most radical Muslims wage war not just against non-Muslims, but even against other Muslim sects. The term "infidel" can vary greatly in interpretation.

Islam shares the same central problem that Christianity has: widely variable interpretations, some of which are very destructive.

I find it telling that Mikey Weinstein has denounced the course as advocating genocide, which it does. Mr. Weinstein is an honor graduate of the Air Force Academy and an attorney who served as an attorney during his Air Force career. He is Jewish. When he found the culture of anti-semitism at the Air Force Academy had not changed when his sons became the third generation to choose military service to this country, he founded his organization promoting religious freedom and neutrality in the military. Mr. Weinstein served as counsel to the Reagan White House, which does not exactly label him a liberal. I'm sure people like Cat 1959, Skipper and their ilk disgust him as much as they disgust all thinking people who possess a moral compass.