E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
Michal Czerwonka / Getty Images
Supporters of Occupy LA march through downtown Los Angeles marking International Worker's Day on May 1, 2012.
Los Angeles officials say the costs of police overtime and cleaning up local parks due to the Occupy protests have nearly doubled to $5 million, as cities across the country continue to tally the protests’ price tag.
City officials initially said the cost would be $2.6 million, but Los Angeles Councilman Mitch Englander told NBC Los Angeles the figure had grown, with the bulk of the cost attributed to overtime for law enforcement.
"At a very difficult time financially with the city, at a time we're talking about laying off civilian LAPD and fire personnel, this is going to have a dramatic effect on the city budget," said Englander, chair of the public safety committee. "For every action the city takes, there is a cost."
Protesters hit streets for May Day rallies
'Battle for the soul of Occupy': Activists fear being 'pulled to the right'
Charlotte protesters: Bank of America is 'the worst of the worst'
The two-month camp in the city closed Nov. 30.
Other events in the city also racked up millions of dollars in cost: the 2010 Lakers Parade was estimated at $1.8 million and the Michael Jackson funeral came in at $3.2 million in 2009, NBC Los Angeles reported.
Other cities have spent from tens of thousands to millions of dollars in police overtime and cleanup costs. In New York, the tally reached $17 million through mid-March, DNAinfo.com reported, citing police testimony at a city budget hearing. In Oakland, the city had paid $3.7 million through Feb. 27, according to a report by Oakland Local.
Of the money the cities said they spent, Justin Wedes, of Occupy Wall Street, noted: "America doesn't need to spend millions of dollars on a paramilitary response to citizens exercising their First Amendment rights in public space."
Most of the Occupy camps across the country were shuttered over the winter, but protesters continue to hold marches and demonstrations against income equality, corporate greed and political corruption. Their latest national action, held on May Day, brought thousands of people into the streets.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Tornado hits high school, topples train in Texas
- Suspected kidnapper dead, 2 girls found unharmed
- Video: Pier collapses during prom photo shoot
- Obama who? Gay marriage foes seek to extend gains
- US priests reportedly behind crackdown on nuns
- Cyclist spots stolen bike on Craigslist, steals it back
Follow US News on msnbc.com on Twitter and Facebook
Leave a Comment:
The Occupy anarchists and terrorists will likely cost even more until we decide to get tough. Also, eventually this crowd will get someone killed. That will take things to a whole new level.
"...until we decide to get tough."
You, sir, sound like a fascist. Police response to protests has already been much tougher than needed. Any violence at protests stems from the militarized police. THIS is what is costing cities. They decided and paid for their police forces should be militarized, and now their overreactions are costing them more money than necessary.
Because the thing is, just let the people march through the streets and say their piece! Why is that idea such a threat to some??
La Vin, are you saying its OK for these slobs to take over public areas indefinitely? The squalor and filth they generate and were living in becomes a health issue for everyone, even more so for the participants. Had these groups been allowed to stay, chances are good an epidemic or even pandemic may have started from one of these camps.
I see it like this...as long as demonstrations are peacefull...they have their rights to have it. As for cost to tax payers...we have 500+ politicans in washington who cost us all way more..and get less done than these few demonstrators did. Yet...the only ones we hear about in the news are those calling for changes to the way our government runs this country...and the lobbyist who control the politicans. Do we need changes, you bet..will we get thim...not as long as washington runs the way it does now.
Like it or not, most of the protestors HAVE jobs. I am shocked that so many people find it acceptable that protestors in this country get treated just as bad, or worse than other countries, where "we" have chided their use of violence by their military and police. People say that Universal Healthcare and free schooling is a form of "communism", but repression of the people, and continued rights being stripped away, is not. Seriously. Get your heads out of that dark corridor, and look at what is ACTUALLY happening, unless, that is, you are more than happy living in an aristocracy, where you are basically a slave to the top. Instead of Heil Hitler, people will be saying Heil Madoff/Hammergen/etc.
After a 1 day protest we should change them $5-10 a day per person. Besides this cost, how about the businesses next door with lost tax revenue, employee wages and taxes, etc.
All this while we spend $1 trillion per year on defense - and the OWS opponents see nothing wrong with that. And they see nothing wrong with billions of dollars that went to Wall street bailout... F-ing hypocrites... Cities already spend way too much money on police. This is just another excuse to spend more.
Mike Fillmore:
is the faction of Americans who LOATHE the idea that anything should ever change, as if change is a bad thing.
Mike Fillmore is the same type of person who lashed out at participants in the Women's Suffrage Movement, the Civil Rights Movement and, likely, are waiting in the wings to take his Bible & guns down there and whoop up on somebody who is only exercising his/her right to voice their opinions.
doubled to $5 million
That is getting close to the trillions of dollars that Wall Street took from the economy!
bill every democrat that supported OWS and praised them like obama and pelosi,
...make them pay for it.....not the tax payers.
bill every democrat that supported OWS and praised them like obama and pelosi,
...make them pay for it.....not the tax payers.
All the wealthy investors should have just been billed instead of the tax payers to bail out the banks.
Nothing like having "entitled" unemployed Democrats who already survive on the backs of taxpayers costing us even more to takeover land and facilities(that we also pay for) to cry and whine about how unfair it is that everyone else is more successful than them.
Since law enforcement wasnt necessary they wasted these dollars flexing unneeded muscle. This is a power struggle.
The selective law enforcement is disgusting. T bags shouting and intimidating people and bringing guns to Town Halls, and stomping on peoples heads gets zero police attention.these people were not peaceful .
But even before the Occupy at Zuccotti park the police were pepper spraying people in the face for voicing their opinions while standing on a side walk holding signs, not guns, and for long period of time refusing to engage in violence with police. The police were craving violence against "hippies" . They were provoking them.
@Chuck
Maintaining control over hopeless people will require all of the resources of a Police State....OWS is just a drop in the bucket.
The occupiers should unionize...
Teo, Mike Filmore and others like him miss the point: part of the purpose of the occupy movement and protests in general IS to create discomfort and inconvenience. The top 1% have the money to buy political power; the rest of us have only our bodies and brains.
Mass protests force politicians to address the issues in a way that petitions and letters cannot. These protest are inevitable and will probably continue until politicians start doing their jobs and working for the good of ALL people, not only the wealthy elite.
Before any great change there will be many sacrifices.
The inconveniences listed by Teo and Mike are miniscule to the big picture. Have they forgotten how a large swath of Americanl society was robbed of their home equities, retirements, jobs and futures????
This crowd will get somebody killed ? A protester is the most likely to get killed by the hands of killer cops ! It's not the protesters that are promoting violence, it's the police state militarized tactics used by police that will get somebody killed. As for the millions that it is costing cities, it is a pittance compared to the misguided government policies, deregulations of the banking industry that have cost ALL of america TRILLIONS ! This reality is primarily what the protests are all about, but then I guess that fact conveniently escapes your logic doesn't it ?
All this time i thought these people didn't contribute anything. They are pitching in like the imbeciles in DC amassing and creating more debt on the backs of taxpayers. Actually they are surpassing the imbeciles in DC as they are most likely collecting some form of an entitlement and causing cities and states to incur extra budgetary costs.
This is more propaganda created to turn public opinion against Occupy. Methinks Democratic officials have gotten wind of some future Occupy protests and are worried that they may expose issues they don't want exposed during a presidential election. But Occupy has hung tough with their platform of issues and I commend them. It took decades, after all, for black people protesting against segregation to enjoy equal rights...at least, in theory.
What's missing from this article is the fact that city officials made bad choices and over-policed Occupy protests. Occupy is firm about its being a nonviolent protest movement and fortunately has been able to withstand infiltration by agent provocateurs who want to cause trouble and dirty the movement.
Protest is what makes this a democracy and it's what makes a democracy accountable to the people and its principles. Without making a stand, you'll be ruled by oligarchs, banks, & corporations, which certainly appears to be happening now.
Think.
You might want to be careful what you bring up, Mike. The actual violence committed by the Tea Party Movement far outweights any pranks pulled by Occupy protesters.
Mike Fillmore
The Occupy anarchists and terrorists will likely cost even more until we decide to get tough. Also, eventually this crowd will get someone killed. That will take things to a whole new level.
Spoken like a true ZIT on the a$$ OF HUMANITY.
MILLIONS FOR OCCUPY AND BILLIONS FOR THE PRIVATE BANKS.
“Whoever controls the volume of money in our country is absolute master of all industry and commerce…and when you realize that the entire system is very easily controlled, one way or another, by few powerful men at the top, you will not have to be told how periods of inflation and depression originate.” – President James Garfield, 2 weeks before his assassination.
"Banking was conceived in iniquity and was born in sin.
The Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them,
but leave them the power to create deposits,
and with the flick of the pen they will
create enough deposits to buy it back again.
However, take it away from them, and
all the great fortunes like mine
will disappear and they ought to disappear, for
this would be a happier and better world to live in.
But, if you wish to remain the slaves of Bankers
and pay the cost of your own slavery,
let them continue to create deposits."
--- Sir Josiah Stamp (1880-1941)
President of the Bank of England & 2nd richest man in Britain
Source: Speaking at the Commencement Address of the University of Texas in 1927
Toasty: Please provide a link to backup your claim. I think you are lying.
TeaParty protests were violent? My arse...they were peaceful, lawful (yeah, they actually paid for permits), they cleaned up after themselves...and the only violence was when members of SEIU physically assaulted a TP protester who happened to be Black! Get your facts right, there, Toasty...
Blue burner
Next time you see Tea party protesters , SHUT YOUR MOUTH!!!!!!
Liberals love support anarchist and rioters.
Hey Satanick-
The banks have already paid back all of the money in full plus interest. Keep b*tching though........
Toasty is FOS. Ignore him
Well, if the banks were allowed to cost taxpayers hundreds of billions, I see no reason why we should take issue with those who oppose what the banks have done and continue to do for costing taxpayers a few million.
Hey Satanick-
The banks have already paid back all of the money in full plus interest. Keep b*tching though........
They may have repaid the bailout money but the economy is still @!$%# from their idiotic financial practices. Millions unemployed, retirements wiped out, etc.
These OWS protesters have no right to take over public parks. They have caused millions of dollars in damage to public property as result of their encampments. The states need to start filing suit against OWS to recover these costs. The OWS has millions of dollars in the bank from donations they have received and the states need to be going after that money instead of allowing the taxpayers to get stuck with the bill for cleaning up and repairing the damage done by these losers. If the OWS protesters spent half as much time and energy looking for a jobs or starting their own businesses as they do in these protests and looking for government handouts they would be far better off and likely be able to pay their bills instead of having no money.
The politicians and state officials no doubt cost the tax payer far more; even while they pad their own pockets annd those of their favored lobbyists; even while NOT listening to the voters at large without them taking to the streets. So cry me a river.... Perhaps, just perhaps when we get more from our self styled representatives then negative political ads from the super PACS, and a whole bunch of "I'm bad, but he's worse, so vote for me"; I'd care to listen to their gripes.... We're very far removed from the days when these individuals see themselves as civil SERVANTS for more then just the PAC or lobbyist; and very far removed from the days where some would say "doesn't matter if you're a dem or a repub, I'm supposed to be your representative. If you've got a problem, you're e"; unless you're a multi-billion dollar lobbying firm that is.
Perhaps, just perhaps if these Congressional types are so concerned about the public dime they could do a few things themselves, like :
- Not vote for a pay increase everytime the wind blows
- Actually pay something for their own health benefits; and not expect the tax payer to give them the cadilac plan on OUR dime
- Scale back this limetime retirement package, even if they serve only 1 term in political office
- Not find every method imagineable to put their grubby paws in the public's money, even as they'd like the public to shut up and take it up the posterior.... Oh, and of course "vote for me come November, so I can continue my life long political career" even as they really don't do a blessed thing for the country outside the lobbyists and PACs which are like their lords and masters /rofl
Send them all to AZ. Let sheriff Joe show 'em a thing or two. I'm NOT being sarcastic!
When the tea party protested you didnt see ANYTHING like what you see whith these idiots. They even picked up their garbage. And nancy PEElosi said "God bless them". Libs make me want to puke!!
Toasterboy come on, try at least a little to be honest. I know it's hard. I have been to dozens of TP rallies and every single one no law was broken...none. We picked up our trash at the end of the day and went home. WE did not inconvenience anyone and did not cost the city a dime.
Try going to one b4 you spout your lies toasterboy. As usual this is all we will hear from toasterboy...plagiarizing your lines...LOL
http://boingboing.net/2010/10/26/rand-paul-supporters.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35040.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/dem-rep-snyder-threatened-with-assassination.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5pdwTQ4xA8
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/21/MNMN1EHB37.DTL
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/joe-stack-statement-alleg_n_467539.html?page=1
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34907.html
I'll accept your apology now, GUSA.
There is a simple solution to the financial problem. When the OWSers seek a permit to protest, whoever is seeking the permit should be held financially responsible for damages, police details/overtime, utilities used, etc.
That's the way we do it in our community. Want to use the school gym for games or an event on the weekend? Then you have to pay for the custodial staff that locks/unlocks the building for you and cleans up after you. Oh, and you have to pay a user fee for using the lights, etc. Want to have a major event on the athletic fields? No problem, but you have to pay for a police detail to direct traffic, provide safety/security, etc. The town doesn't pick up the tab for you.
For major activities we even require the person/organization to provide proof of insurance and/or put down a significant security deposit in case there is damage done. That's the way the REAL world works, the OWSers should consider joining it.
Just one look at "Satanick's" picture tells me all I need to know.
Unemployed, dirty, lazy and angry at the world for his poor life choices. However he does manage to get his point across which makes me think he probably does have some sort of college education; my guess would be a worthless liberal arts degree or some squishy major like psychology that has very little practical use or value.
Now, after years of being coddled by I'm sure are a couple of hippie parents, he finds himself in the real world with no job, no prospects, and no clue about what it takes to be financially successful in our globalized economy.
Toasty:
http://boingboing.net/2010/10/26/rand-paul-supporters.html - Not a Tea Party Rally
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35040.html - - Not a Tea Party Rally
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting - This guy was a Bush hater, Obama supporter.
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/dem-rep-snyder-threatened-with-assassination.php - - Not a Tea Party Rally
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5pdwTQ4xA8 - Seriously? A headline that uses a vulgarity?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/21/MNMN1EHB37.DTL - Not a Tea Party Rally
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/joe-stack-statement-alleg_n_467539.html?page=1 Not a Tea Party Rally
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34907.html - Since when was a face to face chat violent?
Nope - you'll get no apology.
GO USA-851295:
Just ignore him. The sources he linked should say it all:
Politico
Wikipedia
Huffington Post
Youtube
SF Gate
Not one of those outlets would be considered anything close to a reliable news source.
I can't believe anyone here can make fluffy excuses for the costs imposed on many of the sainted "99%" to deal with the mess, crime, vandalism, and property damages caused by the occupiers. The bills were not sent directly to the so called evil and greedy "1%"...everyone pays for this.
For the money 'occupy' cost the taxpayers of this nation, the group's message and methods were both a tremendous waste of time at a very high financial cost.
There is no justification..."ends" are supposed to justify "means". In the case of the'occupy' silliness, they did not do so.
george.zimmerman...
Has that cut on the back of your head healed up ???
I believe that it was congress / senate that sold the USA out to big corporatiopns both foriegn and domestic and I believe that qualifies as a treasonous act against the state. So all the morrons that think we should lay down and let this go unchalenged is a coward and a pussy face .This Government are the agressors and they need to understand it can get a lot worse if they prsist in tring to rob us blind and make slaves out of us. Go OWS hang in their and do not give up, people will support you and back you up. As for the cops , they have no authority to punish and mistreat people . Their job is to be polite and courteous to people and keep the peace by bringing law breakers to court , NOT BEAT THEM UP ON THE STREET AND LIE TO THEM .
Ah, but you have to give him credit for consistency. Most people ignore him because of the massive amounts of hyperbole. His agenda is the Obama agenda, nuff said.
Speaking of Obama, why, in the last almost four years, has he done nothing to address the banking fraudsters? Right now JPMorganChase is in the hole for 2 billion. Not once has Obama or the congress or any DC drone addressed the dangers of derivatives. Can't bite the hand that feeds you apparently.
OWS is a joke, squatters and anarchists and banging tambourines don't address any problems. Now, if they were serious they would address the politicians, the ones who enable the fraudster bankers and Wall Street. Without the complicity of the government said criminals could not exist. No punishments for any of the creatures who caused the financial collapse, indeed, Holder and Obama both have very carefully looked the other way while attacking states, sheriffs and anyone who questions them. New Black Panthers=Pass. Voter registration fraud=Pass. Fast and Furious-lies, more lies and obfuscation.
Corzine, 'Mr. I lost over a billion dollars,' is not only not in prison, he is back bundling campaign donations for Obama. OWS needs to turn their limited attention on Obama.
@Hugh - I'll agree you only have your body to rely. The rest of question your claim of brains!
@Hugh - I'll agree you only have your body to rely. The rest of question your claim of brains!
Just one look at "Satanick's" picture tells me all I need to know.
Unemployed, dirty, lazy and angry at the world for his poor life choices. However he does manage to get his point across which makes me think he probably does have some sort of college education; my guess would be a worthless liberal arts degree or some squishy major like psychology that has very little practical use or value.
Now, after years of being coddled by I'm sure are a couple of hippie parents, he finds himself in the real world with no job, no prospects, and no clue about what it takes to be financially successful in our globalized economy.
Are you sure you are not just projecting? ;) It is amazing how much you were able to glean just from my picture! You should really put that talent to use. You could solve crimes for the police department just from glancing at thumbnails and even give them a detailed family history.
Sorry GUSA, but each and every one of those were instances of teabagger violence or calls to violence.
La Vin, you are suspended for a day for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
I wonder how much the Tea Party elected by the Republicans will end up costing us?????
I suggest that most of the ones here espousing a hard line hammer response are really missing the point here. If the government had done their job and prevented the robber-barons from raping everyone senseless, there would never have been a need for the Occupy movement. Failing that, once they had ALREADY screwed everyone blind, if the govt had done their job by waking up and working for ALL OF THE PEOPLE (REMEMBER THE OLD PHRASE" OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE?) and stopped trickling on "the people", again, there would be no need for Occupy. All they want is their government and country back. You remember don't you? The one that we set up with the Constitution? They want their country back. And so do I. All they want is for the govt to serve ALL of the people- not just the banks and rich like Mitt Romney. I don't think Jamie Dimon deserves more help than the rest of us.
They are not a problem. They are a SYMPTOM of a problem. The real problem is playing footsie with the rich and pampering them at our expense. If they fix that problem, which they need to fix anyway, the Occupy problem will go away. Deal with the fever but attack the virus. The virus is the relationship between politicians and the rich. Far cheaper to just fix the REAL problem.
I hear tell Obama was just handed 15 Million. I'm sure he can spare a measly 5 MIL to help pay for these whiners that he encourages.
just one more thought that the right seems to either wish to ignore or to which they are oblivious: when you study the recent history of society and economics- especially in the western hemisphere, you will see that whenever you get too much wealth concentrated in the hands of too few people, you see social unrest and ,eventually, violence. I suggest that we are seeing the beginning of that phenomenon right now. The harder you stomp on it, the more you will fan the flames. You must attack the root of the problem. As long as the right is in love/heat with the rich, this problem will continue. The disenfranchised and underprivileged won't peacefully lay down and die simply because it would be convenient for the Mitt Romneys of the world for them to do so.
Hello folks, these patriots are fighting against the financial tyranny, corruption and greed that has been perpetrated on the American people by the unrepentant banksters.
In the ultimate example of cognitive dissonance and misdirected outrage, the majority of Americans scorned and ridiculed the young people being beaten, maced and arrested for protesting the rampant criminality of the Wall Street 1%ers while supporting a billionaire banker bailout, 0% interest rates that punish senior citizens and savers while encouraging further debt accumulation, and not be outraged that not one criminal banker has gone to jail. John Corzine through MF Global and through his friend Jamie Dimon stole 1.6 billion of U.S. investor money and where is the outrage?
The presstitutes say the OWS patriots cost the taxpayers millions why don't they mention the bankster bailouts have cost the taxpayers TRILLIONS!
They are a bunch of druggie pinheads. They went through Seattle and broke windows, spray painted cars and vandalized small businesses- yeah the 99%er's businesses. Dumbazzes! And so are the ones that encourage their stupidity.
TrustVerify: Perhaps the police go after the protesters because the protesters go after the cops. Now, there is protest ala Martin Luther King and there is anarchy. OWS is more of the anarchist crowd, unfortunately. Ever notice how MLK didn't break any windows, torch cars or destroy property? He had a message and his goal was to carry that message non-violently. In the end, the populace saw the actions taken against the marchers (not squatters) as abhorrent, which they were. His message still resonates and it does because it was non-violent, specific and had a goal.
Interesting reading some of the pro-OWS posts, several of them espouse violence and force, take it, demand it, and, interestingly enough, not one of them goes after the real culprits. They don't know who their 'enemy' truly is. Railing and demanding and threatening and destroying aren't examples of protesting, they are the tactics and behaviours used by thugs.
Com-on folks, we have to stand by these OWS protesters since the Obama administration and some Congressional Representatives back and support them.
mygirl1....."Railing and demanding and threatening and destroying aren't examples of protesting, they are the tactics and behaviours used by thugs."
And supported by.....see my first comment !!!!
How much taxpayer money is spent on police forcibly removing people from their (sometimes illegally) foreclosed on properties? Why does no one get upset that taxpayer money is spent in support of the criminal banks? If you look at one side, you should look at the rest of the story, too!
Well, if you don't like what is happening do you set fire to cars and break windows? Do you harm small businesses to get even with big Banks? Do you punish the little guy? Reminds me of the LA riots. Looting and burning and stealing and what did said rioters destroy? Their own neighborhoods. So sorry, but the ends do not justify the means and harming the innocent to make a point? That sure will win them over to your cause.
Protesters destroys small car that owner has to pay for, worked hard for and said car owner is really gonna want to get behind those big Bank protests. Yeah, right.
So.....are we only supposed to get our news from state approved news organs??????
When has protest ever been bad..The more you fight them the more their being heard.
Protest is heard, but like a screaming child. Screaming children are not generally good at getting serious social changes. If that is really what is wanted by protesters. Often the protests are about anarchy and destruction, not serious reforms. If you want a revolution ask yourself what is at hand to replace the old system and, more importantly, do you want the chaos and rebellion or do you want reforms. If you want chaos then: When you talk about destruction, you know that you can count me out.
Why would it cost the cities? Since the "protests" are just Democratic Campaign rallies, I would have thought the Democratic National Committee would have picked up the tab. Like it does on the million dollar trips on Air Force One for a political fund raiser. Not.
Is that what Fox News tells you? I can assure you, as an Occupy supporter since the before the protests hit the streets, that the vast majority of Occupiers are not happy with either major party.
Sure, the DNC and organizations like MoveOn have tried to co-opt the movement, and that's seriously frowned upon from actual people who -- as I said -- are not happy with the status-quo-maintaining establishment.
But in your partisan world, it seems everything has to be viewed through the perspective of US vs. THEM. It's sad.
Liberal moochers have always costs us millions. No news here.
Obamas stinky children are a joke, and saying most of them have jobs is a joke too.
A lot of OWS people don't even like Obama from what I can gather.
So, at least they're not ALL stupid!
A bunch of wannabe revolutionaries who don't want to pay their bills and want mommy and daddy hippie to be impressed with their social activism. So far, the only thing they've demonstrated is their ineptitude.
What a humiliation to the species.
Accounting is interesting. If the police state did not increase in numbers then how were additional costs incurred? Considering today's announcement that jp morgan gambled away another 2 billion, along with the trillions of $ that other banks are being able to write off at taxpayer's expense, the costs related to occupy are minimal. Now even high school kids are getting out in the streets with their messages, and they don't call themselves occupy, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1kf016Xosk
If the OWS protesters are so non-partisan, why don't they protest at any major democratic supporters houses? What about the $15Mill Hollywood gave to Obama last night. Any protesting of that influence peddling?
Because these free-loading hippies are so high off their ass most of the time they don't even see the hypocrisy in what they're doing. Hollywood actor making millions of dollars per movie? Fine. Rapper who gets rich preaching violence and drug use? Fantastic. Unionized professional athlete making $20 million a year? No problem.
But got forbid someone works their way up the corporate ladder in the finance industry and earns a $10 million salary. No, can't have that.
Someone should alert these idiots that the 99% they're supposed to be helping is going to have to pick up the tab for their tantrums. How is that helping the 99%?
There's a more reasonable way to look at this. Cities elected to spend millions of taxpayer money to supress the right of free and peaceable assembly, in an episode that looked more like China then America. They could have just left them alone; a much cheaper alternative.
George.Zimmerman
We are not protesting those people because they didn't collapse the economy. Maybe you should read the news more often, you could learn something.
Ignore them???? How? The whole goal of the 'Occupy' movement was to disrupt. Now, how do you ignore people determined to be disruptive? When they start crapping on the sidewalks, taking over parks and other public places, creating mountains of filth and disease, it's hard to ignore them.
The evil bastards they are protesting cost Americans and the rest of the world billions upon billions, but where's the article about the cities complaining about that? Which city hasn't seen it's housing market crash? Which was more devastating, the protesters or the recession? The problem is not the protesters, its THAT they to protest.
And for all the ignorant fools on here saying it's just hippies with no jobs, I'm certain I make more than most in America, but I'm still among the crowd. I guess with your insecurities and ignorance the best you can do is try to dismiss us as if to suggest you are somehow superior. The only thing superior you have is ignorance.
Who among you that owns a home hasn't seen the value plummet? Entire communities have been devastated, and it was not because people are angry and are protesting and cities had to spend a few million dollars. And why isn't your dumb ass angry that a select few made away like bandits off of the housing market while leaving the rest of us to pay for it all while laughing at you especially because you still blindly support them? And you're mad at the protesters?
You have to love the right wing spin "99% protests costs cities millions". Yeah right, and the greed of the top one percent has put the country on easy street. If the rabid right wing spinners out there wonder why most people are pissed about the greed of the few; it's because of articles like this one and their total denial that the greed of the few has stolen so much from the many. This right wing game has been played for over 40 years, now they can see the handwriting on the wall. The time is rapidly approaching when the greedy few will pay dearly not just for their greed but for articles like this one that villify their victims................ TAX THEM TILL THEY BLEED.
Oh, we are indeed angry and upset and we're not stupid either. Note that the ORIGINAL teaparty, before it was co-opted, was all for the same things. Note as well how they were and are demonized and marginalized. Now the teaparty, prior to being conscripted, did protest and got noticed. Difference here is that the teaparty isn't socialist/communist/pro-union. If you doubt that the motivators and creators of OWS aren't in those aforementioned categories, guess again.
Us angry folk aren't going to back a group whose leaders are anti-capitalist. Lerner is with SEIU. Go check him out, he's fer sure not a capitalist. Crony-capitalism isn't true capitalism. We haven't had true capitalism for decades. OWS protests the Federal Reserve they get my support. OWS protests politicans, they get my support.
OWS demanding free everything and anything loses me completely. OWS having no cogent or intelligent demands, (note the intelligent adjective) OWS breaking windows, destroying small businesses and attacking others most assuredly loses my support. If they can keep the radical anarchists, union thugs and communists out, then they will gain serious support. Until that magic moment they are nothing but drains on society.
And...with posters expressing attitudes like Big Al, why on earth would anyone want to support such bigotry and hatred?
mygirl - unfortunately, OWS is something anyone can show up for.
That includes Anarchists, Libertarians (was that redundant?), agent provocateurs, homeless, freeloaders, potheads, and essentially any other malcontent that has a bone to pick with the socio-economic status quo.
And while it's easy to look down your nose at a lot of these disparate groups, the fact that their complaints have risen to the point of near rioting ought to tell you there is SOMETHING wrong with our system.
I support the OWS. I support the right to gather in public places, to protest, and to be able make one's voice heard. While I think the level of police involvement (and thus cost) is too much, it is still a tiny price to pay in the name of American Freedom. It's what makes our country better then everyone else's.
Your-Deity-Here Bless America
So Americans should just stop protesting the wrong-doings of the government and corporate America because it could cost a few cities extra money? Why don't we just eliminate free speech all together because I’m sure it cost's corporations and taxpayer dollars to have people come in to address the media anytime someone opens their mouth against something they see as wrong.
I think you can find much more effective and less costly ways to protest than sleeping in tents in the middle of our cities. Or, do like the TP has done and pay whatever costs the local municipalities asked for (i.e.; pay your own way instead of living off the rest of us).
Why does this need to be explained a million times? Why doesn't it sink in?
"Free speech" does NOT entitle you to trespass and to camp out indefinitely in public parks that have their own hours of operation. "Free speech" does NOT entitle you to leave heaps and heaps of garbage on public (and sometimes even private) property. "Free speech" does NOT entitle you to harrass people trying to get to their jobs, nor to public drunkeness, urination nor public defecation.
OWSers scream about financial problems caused by the banks and how they affect everyone, but see no problem whatsoever in having everyone pay to clean up after their useless public temper tantrums.
Occupy is not funded by billionaire financiers. The tents are symbolic of the people who have been forgotten by the wealthy and powerful and serve as reminders to the middle class that not much separates them from the lives they live now to living on the streets and on park benches. These protesters are exercising their rights to peacefully assemble and to demand a redress for grievances committed against them and all Americans and NO one should have to pay to exercise their basic human and civil rights.
It will NEVER sink in, so I'm not going to bother trying to explain, AGAIN, that the right to "peacefully assemble" does NOT allow you to trespass indefinitely upon, nor vandalize and trash public property...but as as far as the "paying" part?
Who SHOULD pay to clean up after OWS? The taxpayers who are part of the 99% you claim to be representing? Why, exactly, should OWS NOT have to pay to clean up after OWS?
Freedom of the press doesnt mean presses are provided for free. Same thing for free speech.
Its called civil disobedience, its how you get attention when your being walked on and ignored....
are you going to tell the people at the Boston tea party they had no right to storm a private cargo ship and dump personal property into the sea because it costs people money? I don't think so.
Nothing important has ever been accomplished just by following and doing what your told.
@Jax
You are SO stuck in the status quo that you can't even recognize the beast breathing down the back of your own neck!
When it's YOUR J.O.B. that is outsourced or eliminated and when it is YOUR wallet that is empty, you'll likely change your tune. You are one layoff away from joining the protests.
...and here you have it...once again... a ridiculous comparison to things like The Revolutionary War, Women's Suffrage, Civil Rights, etc...
These were real causes. They know exactly what they wanted and had real action items and real laws they wanted passed. OWS says right on its wiki:
OWS's goals include a more balanced distribution of income, more and better jobs, bank reform, a reduction in the influence of corporations on politics, and forgiveness of student loan debt.
Tell me, what are the exact laws you're proposing for "more balanced distribution of income" and "more and better jobs" and "forgiveness of student loan debt?"
And these idiots wonder why the country is laughing at them. Too bad the joke is getting so expensive on the taxpayer's dime.
It doesn't matter who "approves" there are always people against change... its their rights as Americans to protest in a manner they see fit.... and it was never the protests that were writing the laws, they make it harder for the problem to be ignored... It has always been the job of congress to write laws to solve the problems.
The protest is obviously getting the job done.... they are not letting people forget that their is social and economic injustice in America.
@Hugh Jass, I consult. Budgets run out all the time in projects that I consult on. I'm constantly having projects cut short. And you know what I do? I go out and find another project. Sometimes it takes weeks, sometimes it takes months. Consulting has its perks and its drawbacks. The perk is good pay, the drawback is the lack of stability and longevity.
Trust me, I don't blame anyone for my successes, failures or my situation in general. I get right back up, and either go to work, or look for work. There's no need for me to camp out in a tent and create mountains of garbage that the taxpayers have to pay clean up.
You are right Jax. They have taken millions away from tax payers. That is comparable to the trillions that the banks cost us.
You start with unrefined goals and then you move towards refined solutions. They are showing us problems that they think should be fixed. We have a political ruling class to draw up laws. JK, they probably would argue over where America is on a map, all the while costing the taxpayers trillions in deficits. But I'm sure complaining about a few million is justified ;)
@Jax
Our founding fathers despised people like you. It's people that oppose this movement that were the same line of thinkers that opposed the 13 colonies from breaking off, and leaving the "crown".
Things change. The people who oppose the occupy movement want to stick to their old ideals and bogus delusions. They want to believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. They believe that a woman should not have a right to choose. They believe that conformity is the way, and if you don't conform, then you are mistaken. The great thing about America is that it is always a place for change. Those that refuse to understand that are ignorant, and only hurting themselves.
I am not part of this movement at all. I am part of the 99% but I work 10 hrs a day to make ends meet. Everyone is trying to make it.
Freedom comes in all forms, and feeling uncomfortable and uneasy is a side effect of freedom. Live with it, or go back to Europe with your backwards thinking, because what you represent is not what our founding fathers envisioned!
We need people camping out indefinitely, defecating and urinating in public and generating all kinds of garbage because people suddenly forgot that life is unfair? Really?
@Jax
All you ever talk about is poop.....
I posted this before..and I will post it again:
The inconveniences you listed jax are miniscule to the big picture. Have you forgotten how a large swath of American society was robbed of their home equities, retirements, jobs and futures??
All the while, people who got rich by peddling complex financial schemes that, far from delivering clear benefits to the American people, helped push this country into a crisis whose after effects continue to blight the lives of tens of millions of their fellow citizens.
By your thinking, the actions of a few individuals in the OWS result in a wide spread, sweeping generalization by the Tea Bangers of the entire movement? That's a logical fallacy of composition. Your assertion that the movement has failed because it is not perfect is RIDICULOUS.
@Hugh Jass
No, the founding fathers loved people like me because I work, I pay taxes and I give to charity. I'm an active part of my community, and I don't break the law. I vote to shape my world. They wanted (and we still want) responsible people like me.
What they didn't want were a bunch of crybabies without a cause, aka, OWS.
I'll ask again...and I know I won't get an answer, but it does expose the idiocy of OWS, so:
According to the OWS wiki, the "goals" of OWS are:
So what are the exact laws and real action items OWS is proposing for these things?
A "more balanced distribution of income?" Taxing the rich (even more) doesn't mean more income for you or anyone else. It's just more money for the government to mismanage. So what law, exactly, are you proposing for everyone to get the same (or more "balanced") income? And what exactly is "more balanced?" Give me a precise formula, not a soundbyte.
What are the exact laws or action items OWS is proposing for "more and better jobs?" You're going to force companies to hire people it doesn't need? Create jobs it doesn't need? Good luck with that, Skippy.
Forgiveness of student loan debt? Seriously? Pass a law that says all kids go to school for free? Or is it just for the kids who've graduated?
You see why OWS not a real cause but just a whiney philosophical wishlist? It's because you can't agree on one singular cause, complete with a suggested action item.
Our goals INCLUDE those goals, not are COMPRISED of those goals. Nice to leave out the important stuff. Personally, the student loan debt forgiveness is not part of my personal platform in all of this, but this is an INCLUSIVE movement, and there are people in the movement who do have this as part of their reason. So be it.
Please enlighten all of us as to what the OWS Wiki left out. What's the "important stuff" that got left out. Please tell us what else is in this INCLUSIVE movement. By all means.
@Jax
OWS's lack of pre-packaged solutions, lists of demands, etc., indicates we're in uncharted waters -- not a comfortable place for many people...such as yourself.
The hard slog of real problem solving isn't sexy, and doesn't easily reduce to soundbites. But that has been one of OWS's strengths. Traditional solutions have failed -- often repeatedly -- so OWS is exploring new approaches. They're invested in reaching consensus, achieved through the laborious process of people hashing things out until they find common ground. It's the polar opposite of our current winner-takes-all system.
*****Conservatives know very well what is being demanded, attempts to muddy the waters with a “lack of understanding”, "I dont get it" are only desperate attempts to discredit the protesters.***
Again...your assertion that the movement has failed because it is not perfect is RIDICULOUS.
@Jax,
Forgiveness of student loan debt is exactly what it says it is. Student loan debt is one of the two types of loans that are unforgivable under personal bankruptcy. The other one - child support debt. One makes sense. The other doesn't. Currently, if you have NO money and declare it to the government through bankruptcy, you still are on the hook to pay for your kids (makes sense) and your education (huh?).
To answer your question, other proposed laws by OWSers:
Repeal Glass-Steagall.
Overturn Citizens United.
Stop extending Bush tax cuts.
JAx A you pose good questions to bad your to brainwashed to understand your getting A$$ F&*ked by your government and the Bankers that control it.
The founding fathers never had to pay a tax. You would have been a Loyalist to our founding fathers and probably would have moved to Canada. Maybe most Americans are ready for another revolution? But I know this current group of thieves loves your dumb American A$$. Now go watch American Idol because you have no opinion that matters. You sound like a propaganda spokesman for the elite. They don't need your help they already control government and the media. This poor excuse for news is proof of that control.
Long Live POTUS and the Bankers that control him.
No, OWS doesn't know what it wants. Too bad you can't admit it. If OWS knew what it wanted, it would be able to communicate it. Don't blame the people who ask you to clarify what you want, for you not being able to clarify what you want.
For the millionth time...WHAT IS THE PROBLEM YOU WANT TO SOLVE? Spit it out, already!! Is it what's on the Wiki or not? How is the ability for OWS not to tell us what the problem is a "strength", exactly?
No, "conservatives (NOR ANYONE ELSE) knows very well what is being demanded" because every time we ask you, YOU DON'T ANSWER. So we go to the Wiki page, and then geniuses like Danaelle say "it left the important stuff out." We then ask for clarification, and we either get none, or "so what, we're not perfect" or better yet, "you know exactly what we want."
So I'll follow your methodology here. Fill in the blank you just introduced:
Conservatives know very well exactly what's being demanded, it's _____(your answer goes here)_____.
Come on, if it's so precise, so obvious, and so clear, and people know exactly what it is, it must be pretty easy to answer. You can do it!!
You can repeat that catch phrase as many times as you want, but it doesn't mean OWS is nothing more than a laughing stock, accomplishing nothing. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt if you complete the very simple fill-in-the-blank, above.
Ah, but saying there's no need for a police presence there is hypocritical as well. After what went on in New York, there were multiple reports of sexual assaults/rapes; these people complained there was no one there to help them - which is BS at its finest. For example: One young woman reported to THE PRESS she'd been raped, but! She returned to her home in CT after this alleged rape took place, waited three days, and then reported it to the CT authorities, who have no authority in the State of NY. Meanwhile, there were NYPD Officers right there the day it supposedly happened. Why in hell didn't she scream or, if she couldn't, report it immediately when there was some chance of catching the guilty party?
Because it never happened, of course. She had sex with some slob, then was scared she'd contracted an STD and needed an excuse to cover her @ss. Therefore, she was raped. Oh, and mommy and daddy in CT are part of the 1% Hypocrite much?
Yet when NYPD stepped in and told the women who decided it was perfectly okay to go dance topless in the park to cover up, they screamed about harassment. Never mind there were small children nearby, that's okay, they'll just get an early 'education'.
@Jax,
You are missing the big picture. Yes, the Occupy movement has cost us tax money. The Occupier's message is that ONE THOUSAND TIMES the tax money they have cost us goes to corporate welfare and taxbreaks for billionaires EVERY TWO MONTHS.
I can see it now. Jax's money manager is stealing $2,000 from his bank account every two months. A bank representative offers to look into getting the money back - charging Jax $2 in the process. Guess which person Jax spends all his time complaining about ripping him off.
That's how silly you sound.
Jax reaction is exactly why the ultra right is so dangerous, if not outright crazy. Their hate based philosophy allows no room for disagreement. His hate is so strong all he has done is insulted and belittled anyone who has different views from his precious Tea Bangers Party.
Jax is also just one more example of the disease that is bringing down this country; attitude polarization. We have too many people who have come to believe that they are the only ones entitled to have valid political opinions and that the rest of us have to accept them.
This disease is spread by right wing peddlers of hate and discord like Lush, Bort, Fatbo and Faux News.
I don’t see how the United States can ever become a great nation again. We have the rich who want to consume the poor, the corporations who wish to enslave Americans and the religious zealots who care more for sperm than they do for children we already have.
OK, so where does it say "through bankruptcy?" Is that what's being proposed, I didn't see that, anywhere. It just says "forgiveness of student loan debt."
Glass Stegall reform does address some of bank reform and Citizens United for campaign reform...but none of the above will provide "even distribution of wealth," nor will they create "more and better jobs" nor will they "forgive student loan debt" nor the "don't restrict people from working anywhere" nor the "don't support companies that test on animals" points (that used to be on various web pages, but for some strange reason, no longer are). Taxing people more or less doesn't provide more income for anyone. It just gives more money to the government.
Really, I thought it was about student loan forgiveness? No? Or was it "more and better jobs?" Or was it bank reform?
Sorry, just how big of a picture is it supposed to be? To include everything?
I can just see it now. Mrs. Mystery and Hugh Jass go to a doctor and say "I don't feel good, I'm sick!" And the doctor says "Ok can you tell me what's wrong?" Hugh Jass refuses to answer and says "You know EXACTLY what's wrong with me!" and then blames the doctor for not being able to help him.... while Mrs. Mystery tells the doctor about completely different symptoms and then blames the doctor for not being able to diagnose precisely what's ailing him/her/it because "the doctor isn't seeing the big picture."
Both of them continue to camp out in the doctor's waiting area in protest, generating all kinds of garbage and hindering the doctor's other patients from getting in to see him, insisting since it's the doctor's fault he couldn't diagnose their illnesses that he should pay for the cleanup... all while claiming they're allowed to because it's "free speech."
That's how ridiculous both of you sound.
No, I take that back, you're not even intelligent enough to sound that ridiculous.
@Jax,
Well, that's where we disagree. I happen to think that repealing Glass-Steagall, overturning Citizens United, and removing the Bush tax cuts WILL eventually lead to more prosperity for more people...not just prosperity for the top 1% of the 1%.
And maybe you are right that some people want forgiveness of all student loan debt (regardless of bankruptcy). It sounds crazy. But then again, I also thought it was crazy that our government bailed out automakers and banks. When banks and corporations are given trillions of taxpayer dollars, that's considered acceptable. But giving trillions directly to educated citizens is considered crazy. Quite a double standard.
EDIT: Just read your latest post and now I realize that you are being willfully obtuse. I thought you were legitimately questioning (as you should) and I was attempting to offer you my viewpoint. I thought we were having an adult conversation but apparently only one of us was.
I'm guessing that Jax is probably smart enough to either manage his own money OR smart enough to make sure his money manager isn't stealing from him. He also probably didn't go on the hook for a mortage he knew he couldn't afford or a student loan for a degree in which the job would not provide a sufficient income stream to pay the loan off.
Hugh Class - you dilute your message with your insults. I'm not sure what your message is. You don't answer Jax's questions, but hurl insults at him. Seems he has posed reasonable questions, but gets no intelligible responses. I too am interested in what OWS wants - specifically - and it's proposals to accomplish those objectives. I'll listen to what you have to say and think it through. May or may not agree, but I'll listen. But when all I hear is Bush that, and corporate this, on and on, all it sounds like to me is that OWS wants my money and for me to pay their way.
Sorry Mystery, it's you who is being obtuse if you think repealing Glass-Steagall and overturning Citizen's United somehow address "forgiving student loans"...and even other aspects of all the things OWS claims it's all about. To repeal Glass Steagall might help us avoid another crisis like 2008 in housing, but that doesn't mean we'll get "even distribution of income" or "more and better jobs." It might possibly prevent another housing crisis, but it doesn't do us much good after the fact. That was more of a preventative mechanism, not a job nor revenue creator, nor an "income equalizer."
Citizen's United overturning would help keep politics campaigns and big business seperate, but that's not going to address or "even distribution of wealth" or "more and better jobs" or "forgiveness of student loan debt" either. To claim otherwise is pretty deluded.
Please don't get on a soapbox about "being an adult" in conversation when YOU were the one who introduced a ridiculous and unrelated supposition saying how "silly" I sounded. That's just as disingenuous as you trying to claim those action items are related to OWS's complete lack of vision.
I don't understand this. OWS has been saying for months that there demands are very clear, but then you say that OWS has been hard-pressed to assemble demands? Which is it? Either you know what you want or don't. There's really shouldn't be a grey area here - especially after almost a year of organizing.
No, it's not sexy. It's hard work. And you need to know what you want in order to map out solutions. Since you say above that you can't say definitively what you want, then I'm curious to know what new approaches is OWS exploring to meet the demands that you say OWS can't define?
Are these the same people that sat in circles to discuss the meaning of democracy in this country despite the fact that the U.S. is not, nor has it ever been, a democracy?
Hugh,
Glad to see that you are not contributing to the polarization of our society. In your ranting, you could just as easily have substituted "left winger" for right winger. You obviously don't believe that someone with a view different from your own has any validity. Hello, Pot, this is the Kettle calling - You're Black!!
Racist left-winger
To that, I say "shrug".
So are a majority of those that didn't pay any income taxes last year getting ready to pay them in 2013? Remember the largest tax cut the lower class ever got came in with the Bush Tax Cuts - increased child credit, increased income limit for lowest tax bracket, lower tax rate for the lowest bracket.
So lower and middle class get ready - Bush Tax Cut won't get extended and you're going to get to help pay for this mess!
Um, Glass-Steagall was repealed. It was replaced with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act. Now, perhaps that's a misprint, I hope it is, becuase if it's not then OWS has some really serious problems, one of them being lack of education or, they should get their education money refunded since they didn't learn squat.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/wallstreet/weil/demise.html
You're right, mygirl. I think the above posting was in error, and the OWS want Glass-Steagal reinstated, not repealed.
And FYI Jax, the Boston Tea Party was an act of corporate sabotage. The Townsend Act lowered the taxes of the wealthy and passed them onto the poor and middle classes. It was the poor and middle classes that destroyed the corporate inventory of tea in the Boston Harbor to protest the Parliament's Townsend Act. The OWS movement is right in line with the founding principles of the USA.
Let me understand this. Are we now saying OWS wants to "tax the rich, and give those tax dollars to the middle and lower classes?"
Please, is that what you're telling us?
You have some serious learning to do if you think that's what the Townshend Acts were about, and if you think that's how taxation works.
Direct from Wikipedia so you don't say I'm making things up:
The purpose of the Townshend Acts was to raise revenue in the colonies to pay the salaries of governors and judges so that they would be independent of colonial rule, to create a more effective means of enforcing compliance with trade regulations, to punish the province of New York for failing to comply with the 1765 Quartering Act, and to establish the precedent that the British Parliament had the right to tax the colonies.
No tax money was given directly to the poor and middle class as a result of this.
Just like no money will be given directly to the poor and middle class if you start taxing the rich (even) more. It's just more money for our government to mismanage, including having more people on welfare and foodstamps. And since this probably eludes you, MORE people on welfare and foodstamps is never a good thing. We should NOT be striving to have MORE people on welfare and foodstamps, no matter what Obama tells you.
And I need to correct myself above, as others pointed out (thank you to those who highlighted it), I meant to state the "reinstatement" of Glass Steagall, not its repealing.
Jax,
You somehow misinterpreted my entire post. The Townsend Act lit the fuse of the Boston Tea Party by taxing the poor and middle classes more than the wealthy corporations. The taxes that were once paid by companies were eliminated and passed on to the Colonies. Nowhere did I suggest taking money from the rich to give to anyone else.
So if I read some of these comments right only the wealthy who can pay for all that comes with demonstrations should be able to demonstrate? Isn't that a little convoluted? But then again I find most Republican thinking convoluted.
Recently a bill called HR347 was passed unbeknown to most of us. It states that people can not demonstrate anyone or anywhere that's protected by the Secret Service. It's now a felony. Interesting isn't it? Slowly but surely our rights are being eroded and some of you want to argue over whether or not college loans should be forgiven? While the U.S. is probably the most expensive country to get a degree from think what it's going to be like should the Republicans get their way on raising the cost.
I don't need to wonder why Michelle Bachmann wants her children to have dual citizenship...after the Republicans are done with making this a third world country who's going to want to live here?
Well, I guess we'll just have to ignore what unregulated capitalism has cost us, because when it's on the front page it's what ever they say that matters, right? No jobs in America, no health care for millions, no protection for forced pay-in retirement funds; Social Security, and Medicare under attack, endless wars in countries that only oil executives care about (the Soviet Union is dead!). Yeah, there are costs, alright. It's called Democracy. I fought for it, and my fore-fathers fought for it. Wake up, and hear the message.
hahahahahah let me breath after that good laugh..
Unregulated Capitalism... HAHAHAH o joy that is the best one I have heard in a LONG TIME.. EVERY BIT of our economyis regulated. We do not have unregulated capitalism ANYWHERE in this country.
damn if you OWS people actaully knew what you were talking about, you would be a force to recon with, sadly yall are clueless individuals who do nothing but hurt your own cause.
Derivatives and credit default swaps were unregulated. That is what caused the financial meltdown Jeremy. So nice try!
Not to mention the corporate whores in congress have been deregulating like crazy for the corporations and billionaires since the criminal and chief Reagan began this supply side economic fiasco.
We have nothing that resembles capitalism , If we did the banks and GM would be no more. We have a fascist police state controlled by a private Banking cartel masquerading as capitalism. Money as Debt
part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcH1B20oW9A&feature=relmfu
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6uuAupT4AQ&feature=relmfu
Wall Street was able to bring the World's economy to it's knees, maybe that is the kind of 'regulation' that Jeremy is laughing about?
Capitalism is what made the US the greatest nation in history. Socialism is what is destroying it....I'm just happy that the cops that have to deal with the Occupy dirtbags are on time and a half.
Capitalism is what made the US the greatest nation in history. Socialism is what is destroying it....I'm just happy that the cops that have to deal with the Occupy dirtbags are on time and a half.
Those cops are living off the taxpayers. Socialists!
The taxpayers hired the cops to protect us from OWS vandals and criminals..
THE GOOD NEWS IS... "IT'S WORKING". demonize the person who practices free speech. demonize the person who tried to UNIFY America. they did it at kent state by killing students. they did it in china by killing students, they are doing it now in Syria by killing students. In Libya also. You scream about gun rights and complain about free speech. Call them thugs and dirt bags. THEY ARE YOUR NEIGHBORS CHILDREN.
About the fact that our founders didnt pay taxes. up until Nixon and his deals with china, We had a tariff system. countries selling goods to America had to pay a tax that equalized the difference between their wages and ours. in our founders day these tariffs supported America. yeah keep voting for "free markets" lol you deserve your pain
moneyos - Capitalism did NOT make this nation great. Before our social nets were developed, all we had was robber barons, with a small handful of rich elite and everyone else barley scraping by. Yet after we developed some social nets such as social security, public schools, local police, minimum wages, and overtime pay, the great American middle-class was born and our country became the money making powerhouse. Without our middle-class, this country isn't worth spit, and not people are actually buying into this crap that we need to go back to the 'good-ol-days' before we had a middle-class. Now we have millions of American falling below the poverty level, wages stagnant for 30 years, benefits almost non-existent, yet mysteriously the top 1% are enjoying historical profits.
Sure our capitalism is regulated, otherwise we would all be making $2/hr and wouldn't own any property. As these regulations become more lack, once again America is falling in power; while other developed 100% socialist nations are actually surpassing us. In fact, all nations with a AAA+ credit rating are now socialist, while other less socialist nations are falling very fast. For example, the nation whose regulations most closely resemble ours is Greece and that is very sad.
But sure, just keep cheering on the 1% as they squeeze the middle-class for more profit. Maybe you'll be one of the lucky few allowed to beg for scraps from their table, while the rest of us are considered anti-American lazy troublemakers. So go ahead and let prospectors and profiteers take over our nation and government, but please stop blaming it all on the protesters. They are not the problem!
Jeremy I do know what I am talking about and the bulk of this "cost" they admit was for the police to harass, spy on and abuse (beat, pepper-spray, illegally detain, etc) US citizens. Also capitalism in this country isn't pure capitalism which if you had ever take a course in economics you would understand. What passes for it here has cost taxpayers trillions of dollars over the last 200 years alone. The lowest Average Total Cost Ratio was the period between FDR and Regan (FDR's administration started regulating it while Reaganomics eased those regulations and Bushanomics almost completely remove those regulations resulting in the first really major financial collapse since the great depression). Face it your precious "conservatives" have radically changed things for the worse and now want Christian sharia law......
As for you "moneyos1" we stopped using capitalism in this country other than a perverted form of it in the South before the American revolution. By perverted I refer to large plantations vs small farms and factories vs artisans. How come idiots who never studied economics always have stupid opinions they try to force down the throats of others on the subject?????
The empty headed inbred rednecks that voted for Bush didn't cost us a plug nickel. Right Jeremy?
Jeremy, ol' pard' we gotta hold the line gainst these commie pinkos - only thing threatinin our freedom is these flatlanders exercizin their liburties. N don't yew pertesters trah ta play dum wit me. Ahm much better at it then U.
Millions? That's it? The whole reason that the Occupiers are there is to protest corporate welfare and tax breaks for billionaires that amount to $13 BILLION of our tax money every 2 months!
Let's not complain about the pennies that Occupiers are "stealing" when the fat cats are getting rich off of our tax money.
And that's why we need the Fair Tax - no "breaks", no loopholes, no IRS, none of that garbage. But I don't see OWS screaming for that!
This is the problem with the Occupy movement. The millionaires aren't paying for this. The local taxpayers and businessowners are. We are. The 99% are paying for the 0.1% to throw public temper tantrums and not be held accountable. The fact that they have no concept of personal responsibility for their own protest sickens me. Free Speech is fine, say what you want. Once you start destroying public property and making me pay for it so you can feel better about yourself? I don't think so.
Keep in mind that if you confiscate every penny from every millionaire and billionaire in the US, it will pay for all of the social programs for about nine months. Then what? Who then will provide the jobs? Poor people dont employ people or pay taxes.
BS Moneyos1...
The total wealth of all millionaires in the US is ~11 trillion, that would cover most of our deficit right there. I somehow doubt we spend more than 11 trillion dollars a year on social programs....
Source:
moneyos1 - Poor people DO pay taxes. I hate to pop your bubble, but Federal income tax is not he only taxes paid. Here is a few….
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL License Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel Permit Tax
Gasoline Tax (42 cents per gallon)
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Interest Expense (tax on the money)
Inventory Tax I
RS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone Federal Excise Tax
Telephone Federal, State and Local Surcharge Taxes
Telephone Federal Universal Service Fee Tax
Telephone Minimum Usage Surcharge Tax
Telephone Recurring and Nonrecurring Charges Tax
Telephone State and Local Tax
Telephone Usage Charge Tax
Toll Bridge Taxes Toll
Tunnel Taxes
Trailer Registration
Tax Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft Registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers’ Compensation Tax
The vast majority of these taxes are paid for by the bottom 99%, regardless of income; and you want to know what is worse than a poor man not paying income tax? A rich man like Mitt Romney, because instead of investing in business and hiring, it is much more profitable and tax friendly to stick your money stocks, bonds, and real estate; or even better, an off-shore account where that money never is taxed or reinvested to our nation.
Besides side, your calculations on the cost social programs is complete bunk. Yep, just a fact-less lie with no merit. In the real world, with real facts, the combined money from the 1% would pay for social services for 5 years or more. Now if we followed your advice and eliminated all social programs, this would save us lots of money, but only if you cut Medicare and Social Security, but continue to collect these taxes, and that sound fair to you?
@"moneyos1" you keep in mind that with corporate tax rates making possible "refunds" to giants like Mobil/Exxon and GE that takes money paid by the middle class and gives it to them for not paying any of theirs it bankrupts us to line their pockets sending good paying jobs to China or some other sh!thole for as little as 28 cents an hour. No wonder nobody is buying anymore we can't afford to so the giants play the markets with even lower tax rates instead and collapse the economy further....
So go tell your local city mayor/ council that you don't want them to spend your tax dollars policing the protests. The cities CHOOSE to police the protests, the protesters do not ask for the police presence. This is funny as hell. The CITY chooses to spend the money on this, but it is the protesters fault. Meanwhile, OPEC decides the price of gas, but that is Obama's fault. You people are a riot :D
Public safety be damned right? Maybe if the protests were less violent with less drugs, rape, and assault, the police wouldn't feel the need to expend additional resources to protect the 99.9% of local citizens from these mobs of public health hazards.
Danaelle: You're suggestion isn't very smart. Just for the record I support the Occupy people, however, it's unrealistic to believe they should not be subject to some boundaries. MANY of the Occupy people are legitamate protests but as everyone knows, some will join that are NOT. The nut jobs come out of the woodwork and they are the ones the public and Occupy needs to be protected against.
in the long run it will be cheaper for the cities to agree with the protesters by helping them to take control of the institutions which are destroying or society (i.e. the banking industry, and federal government) by force if necessary
workers of the world unite!!!!!
Ah, yes, let the cities allow the protesters to take control of the institutions which are destroying society, by force...Now, that was a joke, right? If that was a comment made by someone with an education, well, we now understand just how poorly our education system truly is.
The dictatorship of the proletariat has come to a city near you! They destroy businesses us drugs, defecate in public and we are suppoesd to pick up the tab for these clowns because it is just a variant of "free speech." When did rape, robbery, assault and destruction of property become a means of expressing oneself that is protected under the first ammendment? It is time to call a spade a spade. This is simply a loosely organized group of warring factions taking advantage of our tolerance as a nation to test run their ability to focus in preparation for the defeat of Barack Obama in November. If you thought thes protests were unruly before wait until their sponsors wish to make a point about their Chosen One. If the Rodney King riots were destructive in LA this bunch of thugs will make that display of civil disobedience look like a bridge club garden party.
You would tell a lie if the truth would benefit you :)
Mind providing your address? We'd like you to be the first stop over.
You are so off base about the movement, but I can't blame you because obviously you've been misinformed by mainstream and right-wing media.
But I have to hit on this -- the "dictatorship of the proletariat"? Really?
Not sure what country you live in, but in MY country--America--our government was intended to be OF, BY, and FOR the People. Put simply, the PEOPLE are the government. The proletariat IS the government because the government is OF the People.
How many ways does this need to be said to get through to you?
While I'm here I might as well take this a step further for you, to point out that reducing government power effectively reduces the power of the people, because -- SAY IT WITH ME NOW -- our government is OF, BY, and FOR the mothereffing PEOPLE.
And I will fight to maintain that until the day I die.
Govt also works better if its NEAR the people.
Not sure what country you live in, but in MY country--America--our government was intended to be OF, BY, and FOR the People. Put simply, the PEOPLE are the government. The proletariat IS the government because the government is OF the People.
Counterpoint: Note those two little words, "WAS INTENDED." Past tense. Present tense is "OF" the people, but not "FOR" the people. Government works best when it works least, and stays outside of the buinsess of the citizens. Government doesn't work and build, its the citizens whom work and build.
As to the protestors: Go occupy the spaces outside of the White House on Pennsylvania Ave., where you can beat your drums and dance around a pole.
Nice GOP talking points. Tool.
The police unions are what cost us millions. OWS is peaceful, don't let the corporate media mislead you.
Yes, we saw how peaceful the stinky children of Oakland were.
The majority of the protests have not been violent or destructive.
They have all been filty beyond belief and that alone costs lots. Let alone the security costs.
Satanick, It is good to have strong ideals and to act on them. Why don't you engage IN the system rather than throwing stones from the outside??
I would certainly consider giving my vote to someone who possesses strong ideals and the courage to act on them within our democracy. But NOT for someone who simply wishes to commiserate on the street.
Demonstration and free speech are great, but there is a time to act within our democratic system. Why doesn't your movement make the jump?? Might produce better politicians than those we have to listen to now (Obama included).
Every time you ask an OWSer why they shouldn't have to clean up after themselves, their idiotic response is always "look what the bankers did!" or "look what the rich did!" or "look how much my college charged me for tuition!"
It's bad enough they are accomplishing absolutely nothing, but they're hindering people trying to get to work and creating public health hazards and dumps everywhere.
Baloney. Every time asked to clean up, a cleaning committee is formed and money is set aside to buy supplies. If you don't know what you are talking about, don't speak. :)
Are you sure it's Jax A, not Jack Ass?
Oh, I see. So this very article is just a great big lie?
Explain it to me. MSNBC is lying in this article?
No the article isn't...you are. :) I am sure that the numbers cited for the cleanup are real. But here is how it happens:
The city spends a bunch of money having the police come in and remove the protesters. Then it spends more money tearing stuff up and throwing it away. What they NEED to do is STOP the police presence, let the protests die out on their own and have the protesters clean stuff up themselves. If it gets too bad before that happens, merely go ask them to get busy with it. We will. Most already are.
It is YOU who said they won't clean up, therefore it is YOU who is lying :)
So let me understand this, the police should just allow the protestors to stay there as long as they want, because when they feel like it, the OWSers will willingly clean up after themselves? You're saying these cities don't REALLY have to pay the money they claim they're paying because the police don't really need to be involved? Is that your "logic?"
(This is too easy)
yes. That is my logic
And there you have it, folks.
Danaelle is telling us that protests like this DON'T need policing (because they're so peaceful and law-abiding, of course!!!) and that it's the cities' own fault that they have to pay millions of dollars to clean up for OWS because those cities foolishly decided to involve the police in the first place...and because when these protests "die down" on their own, OWS will willingly clean up after itself.
I didn't just make this comedy up, she said all of the above in her previous posts.
This is the genius mentality of OWS, hard at work.
Get real. Mobs NEED the cops to show up so the media will take pictures of the poor oppressed masses and they get on TV. If its peace, it only get mentioned on the traffic report.
So, Danaelle, when do they choose to willingly clean up? When the park comes a landfill due the amount of trash? And are they going to provide their own security? And I've seen these committees the OWS'ers put together. They're about as useful as congress.
Bottom line is, the trash has to be cleaned up regularly, else it becomes a huge health hazard, and the OWS'ers aren't doing so. The cities have NO choice but to foot these bills, regardless of what your odd logic leads you to believe.
And sorry, but there has to be a police presence regardless of how good you think these people are. Why do you think reports of rape, assault, destruction of property come from? It's not towards the cops, the majority is towards each other.
People as a group are lazy, inconsiderate and apathetic to anything but their agenda.
How many of these reports have you heard of, wes? And how much do you actually know about the Occupy movement? Not much apparently. Every movement has a cleaning committee funded by the people there supporting it. The problem is that it isnt clean enough for someone ELSES standards. Every time a tent goes up, people scream eyesore. But it is not an eyesore to the people protesting. You guys just like to take a couple incidents and blow them out of proportion and use them unendingly in your arguments, creating the illusion that it is a widespread phenomenon. Those of us living it know better.
When the city clean up crews have to wear biohazard suits, obviously the OWS clean up committee isnt doing a very good job. Stinky children of the park, be gone.
I find equally annoying that Congress refuses to do what the people want.
P.U you know what stinks worse than a dirty park? How about the Republican policies toward the EPA and Big OIL. I guess it's Liberal bull@!$%# to want clean air and fresh drinking water.
Welcome to America, and it is hardly one group alone.... Ever gone grocery shopping and left the cart in the lot, rather then taking it back up yourself, or seen anyone else do that? Ever seen smokers drop cigarette butts exactly where they are, without bothering to walk it to an ash tray? Even if the ash tray is 2 feet from them? I have... Hell I told one guy (worked a job where our customers did that), and he mentioned he's got smokers who drop their butts by the gas pumps too.... Then there's all the pollution, and everything else....
And ya know what? In general, Americans really don't care, and neither do many of the companies.... It's all reflective of the culture we live in. But now, the guy on the street is supposed to care more, or be more self giving; then much of society at large? I'm sorry if this is a shock for ya, but it's largely the world we live in, and it isn't just them... Not that it makes anyone better, for being much the same, but it doesn't make them worse either. It makes them a product of our times, and of our society/civilization; with all the baggage that comes along with being pretty much like many of the people around them....
And it isn't limited to any one end of the political spectrum either... One can sorta laugh at the absurdity of someone who has a bumper sticker on the back of their car that says "Make love, not war" but then gets engaged in, and becomes an agressor in incidents of road rage :p And yet they're not alone in that either.... Many a soccer mom, regardless of political ideology can be guilty of that as well, along with gabbing on the cell phone while cutting someone off ostensibly without seeing them...
I can't speak for all the cities involved with the OWS, and I am not a member. But I did visit both Occupy Philly and Occupy DC.
The media in Philly kept telling us that the cost of police overtime and the cleanup would cost taxpayers millions.
Every time I visited, there were a handful of cops on hand and I would speak to them all. There were only 2 officers that wouldn't talk to me out of about 30. The 28 that did talk to me all said that they weren't on overtime and this was their regular shifts. And each time I visited the encampment was clean and organized.
Then the Occupy camp was kicked out of Philly City Hall. For what you ask ?
For a $50 MILLION dollar ice skating rink and food court. Can't pay for a little police overtime, but we can build a $50 million ice skating rink.
And in DC at each encampment I visited I saw barely any police presence and very clean, organized camps.
Anyone stop to think that these "millions" occupiers are costing is the direct result of the Hundreds of BILLIONS it cost taxpayers in the first place? The millions are a bargain, because we are getting something from it. The Hundreds of BILLIONS was a total ripoff. All we got from that was screwed.
And what is that exactly that we are getting?
A push back against corporate fascism and our republic remaining a plutocracy. This of course is priceless to the 99% of the American populace. Do you like living in a society akin to a banana republic?
I guess a "push back" doesn't really seem worth it to me. We gave "push back" to our fifth grade teacher when she gave us a long paper to write over the weekend. I gave "push back" to my parents when they sent me to bed early. If giving "push back" actually did anything, shouldn't we see some form of advancement on any of the issues taken up by the movement?
I'd rather see a movement which puts forth specific changes to current laws, has contacts in politics and with people of influence who actually plan on acting, goes into the community to do what they can to improve the situation of the people they are defending and supporting, and which has a set plan other than to let people know that they're pissed off. While I agree with the stance on many issues of OWS, the execution is frankly embarrassing. Unless there is some very well organized aspect of OWS which they refuse to publicize, then " push back" seems 100% ineffective for accomplishing anything.
I don't hate OWS, I hate how lazily it "supports" the cause. Instead of putting our nose to the grindstone and figuring out what we need do to improve our country, everyone's content with walking down the street, arm in arm, signs in hand, chanting and yelling. Sorry "push back" doesn't seem worth much of anything.
And i don't even disagree with OWS' opinion, for the most part...I just think it's about as effective as a facebook petition. Everyone feels righteous and rosy that they "support" the cause, yet 90% of the people have no real clue about the issues, what we should do to fix them, what we can do to improve things in the mean time, or what it takes to really improve your own life. "push back" seems to be exactly what most protestors desire and expect that "push back" to lead to some kind of reform. Push back is a way of saying "letting your voice be heard" which, while wonderful in principal, does next to nothing when it comes to actually accomplishing things.
The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan costs billions!! not to mention all the death and
destruction.........let the people protest! What are you afraid of? Democracy?
I think it's trillions.
not afraid of anything. tired. tired of you complaining. tired of your unproductiveness in society. tired of you expecting things to be given to you. the rest of us that aren't YOU or the highest earners in america are busy earning a living, and now you take tax money bc you are filthy pigs who can't clean up after yourself. can't police your group to maintain some order - bc somehow order is a bad thing. you are takers. that is what you do. the givers like me are tired of you taking.
heres your "highest earners in America", bud:
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/05/romney-volcker-dodd-frank-jp-morgan-wall-street.php
I personally disagree with the OWSers but believe they should have the right to protest. But, damn, I sure wish they could do it responsibly and not like a bunch of whiney-ass, spoiled brats. Clean-up after yourselves, for God's sake. Stop s$itting and pi$$ing all over the place. Stop the sexual assaults, etc.!
Well they are not corporate sponsored like the teabaggers!
The rallies in Texas at the capital had NO sponsors just speakers and volunteers, been to 4 of them. so maybe you could furnish us the list of corp sponsors and locations?
He can't. That's because what is really at work here is wonderful brainwashing. As to corporate sponsorship of OWS, no, but the unions sure are dandy, aren't they? Interesting how the OWS is getting money and not one dime is used to compensate for the cleanups. If they were really serious and wanted to actually get a message across, their actions would match their demands. The 'movement' isn't serious, it can't be taken seruiously becuase it doesn't act seriously or responsibly. Making demands, incoherent demands, while damaging property is not a movement, it is self-indulgent adolescence in action.
Yes those big buses with flags all over them were paid for by the teabaggers , sure!!!
I would say our federal government's propaganda is wonderful brainwashing mygirl.
Just a drop in the bucket compared to what is bound to happen. You gotta spend money to save money.
Let me know when the cost of the protests exceeds $1 Trillion Dollars, the amount equal to the taxpayer bailout of Banks. I hope the OWS doubles in numbers everyday until we overturn this fuedal society.
Thanks OWS for standing up for those who are afraid!!
Youre welcome :)
Anytime you guys are doing a great Job!!! I only wish I could help more!
Everyone supports in their own way, when and how they can. Just keep the faith and voice your support, it is enough, brother :)
Thanks!
Yes, you guys are just awesome!!!
Just look at all the laws that have been passed for "the cause!" Oh, wait...
Just look at all the taxpayer money being wasted to clean up after you guys! It's SOOOO cool given the state of our economy! Oh, wait...
Just look at all the things you've changed with your sage social awareness!!! Oh, wait....
Never mind. Carry on! You guys rock! You're making the world SOOOOOOO much better, dudes!!!
You are the last one that should be bad mouthing others social awareness. Unfortunately the corporate fascist world view you support is making things worse. The last forty years of your groups policy show this quite clearly.
Jax A, when you're ready to stand up and complain about significant waste of tax money, then you can run off at the fingers.
But based on what is wasted on military annually, or what the government has given these banks, or how much corporations pay our elected officials for their votes through lobby dollars and campaing contributions, whatever OWS is costing the taxpayer is peanuts.
You are standing in the midst of a forest fire, complaining about a candle burning.
Jax A, when you're ready to stand up and complain about significant waste of tax money, then you can run off at the fingers.
But based on what is wasted on military annually, or what the government has given these banks, or how much corporations pay our elected officials for their votes through lobby dollars and campaing contributions, whatever OWS is costing the taxpayer is peanuts.
You are standing in the midst of a forest fire, complaining about a candle burning.
That -- as they say -- is the price of democracy. The Constitution guarantees that right, and does NOT say it's reserved only for those who agree with the system, nor does it say it has to be tidy and cost-free. Protest is always messy in somebody's eyes, especially when they're looking for reasons to shut it down. Nothing has changed in this regard from the 60s: we heard and read the same cr*p back then, too.
BTW, the article leaves out what price tag for the Tea Party protests were. I don't recall anyone reporting that. (And please don't think we're dumb enough to think there were no costs.)
Actually the majority of the tea party "protests" or rallies as they actually were, were held with legally obtained permits to use an area, all cleanup and security was either paid for or reimbursed to the cities. I don't support the tea party or the OWS'ers. I think they're all idiots. But at least the tea party held organized rallies instead of mob mentality protests.
The organization of the tea party is the reason why they're a larger threat than the OWS movement.
As has been stated: The TP had billionaires backing them. We have people who can spare a buck and change. That is the difference, mainly.
No, it's their history of violence that makes the Tea Party more dangerous.
But what happened to the President and all the celebrities who "support OWS" yet make millions per year? What about Warren Buffet? Don't they all "support" the cause? Can't they donate to help pay? In fact, MSNBC ran a whole series that interviewed millionaires who supported OWS and were at the protests daily...surely they could afford more than a buck and change to help organize a real movement?
Sure they would. All we would have to do to get it, is to sell out and support democrats in the fall, and spout their talking points while they turn around and continue fleecing the middle class. Since we refuse to do that, their offer is off the table.
The President doesn't support OWS where did you come up with that? OWS doesn't want billionaire money or corporate bribery they want freedom, economic justice and equality along with a change in our system of bribery. The TP wasn't a movement it was a corporate sponsorship for the right wing demagogy.
BS toasterboy name a TP rally where someone was raped, beat, left tons of garbage to clean up?
Danelle what the SEIU and them paying rent for the OWS?
I'll give you MORE than one example. And I've got more if you need them.
http://boingboing.net/2010/10/26/rand-paul-supporters.html
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/35040.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Tucson_shooting
http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/dem-rep-snyder-threatened-with-assassination.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5pdwTQ4xA8
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/07/21/MNMN1EHB37.DTL
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/18/joe-stack-statement-alleg_n_467539.html?page=1
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34907.html
The U.S. is not a democracy.
Yes it is, PH.
actually,Toasty, it isn't. It's a republic. If it were a democracy, we could make laws ourselves when the politicians are too gutless. We could amend the constitution ourselves when it needs changing. In a republic, the real power is with the elected reps. In a democracy, the real power is in the people. I wish we were a democracy. Switzerland is a real democracy.
A republic is a form of democracy. Go back to high school civics.
I can assure you my education is just fine. The US is a democratic republic - calling it a form of democracy because it suits you doesn't change my point and you know it. The U.S. very far from a true democracy -thankfully. The founding fathers feared democracy. From the Federalist:
No PH, I call it a form of democracy because it IS a form of democracy. A republic is a subset, a category. They aren't mutually exclusive, and I feel obligated to correct anyone who makes such a stupid assertion.
Actually, there are many forms of government, with a Republic on the far left and a Dictatorship on the far right. The problem with a Democracy is it's majority rule, with small groups ending up with no voice at all. Truthfully, our nation is somewhere between, where our Senate provides equal voice for each state, regardless of size, while our House provide representation based on population numbers.
But for those who need a more comprehensive explanation, watch the following video.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4r0VUybeXY
Jharn, you can have majority rule in a republic as well. A republic is just a form of democracy that utilizes indirect, elected lawmakers. The term you guys are actually looking for is "liberal democracy," wherein the democratic majority is tempered by the legal recognition of civil liberties.
No wonder so many dems supported Occupy, it cost the taxpayers millions!Just good dem policy.
There were no stories, None at all, About all the Tea Party rallies and protests costing cities millions of dollars, Riots, Destruction of Private and Public property, Breaking into public buildings, Burning the American Flag, Rapes, Drugs, etc.
How is it that one Group of activists can protest peacefully, exercise their "Free Speech" rights, and be respectful about it, without it costing society anything, yet another group exercises their "Free Speech" rights and it costs the society millions of dollars?
Everyday the "Occupiers" hold one of their rallies they Make the Tea Party Look better and better. I hope they keep it up and I hope America Remembers and casts their vote accordingly in Nobamar.
disingenuous? use facts instead of pithy comments and tell us where he is wrong.
Very nice, vulgar AND non-responsive. Please provide actual facts and links to stories about Tea Party rallies requiring millions of tax-payer dollars for clean up. We'll all wait patiently.
There are none. Because the people who are involved in OWS recognize that they had a right to protest, and there was no public outcry. However, the Republicans and the fat cats on Wall Street got scared and actually FUNDED the NYC police force to come and police them. Even though the Tea Party people were openly carrying, everyone recognized a right to protest. They were ALLOWED to say their piece. We, however, are not. There was an IMMEDIATE police presence in NYC and the first shots were fired BY the police with tear gas against fenced in females sitting on the sidewalk. Your argument is pathetic. :)
And yet here you are Danaele speaking your peace.
How do you choose to use it? Trying to Blame NYC, The Police, Republicans, any one and everyone to try and excuse the inexcusable.
I respected the TEA party when it was a fiscal conservative movement. Then they started getting more and more concerned with social conservatism. It is to the point where I do not hear of the TEA party doing anything except fighting for social conservative causes. The TEA party has lost its way.
Where as OWS is very clear with its vision? I guess it depends on "which vision." Like the "uneven distribution of income" vision, or the "forgiveness of student loans" vision. Or the "more and better jobs" vision. There used to be a "don't support companies that test on animals" vision. Hey, what happened to that vision?
Wait, I'm sorry, which vision are we following, here?
@Jax
again...your assertion that the movement has failed because it is not perfect is RIDICULOUS.
OWS has not even existed one year. The TEA party has had time to consolidate their views.
Right, Hugh Jass, where your assertion that OWS is a success because it's accomplished...what, exactly? I mean, other than mountains of garbage that taxpayers had to pay to clean up, that is.
The original Tp partriots wanted one thing...to curb spending above our means in gov. We did so by voting out certain RINOs. Sure there are splinters now of the original movement and some of em ain't pretty or partiotic IMHO. But to label all us as criminals and dangerous is just liberal scare tactics without merit or facts just mere loads of expletives, kinda shows what the libs are about.
Bryant Amper banned, flame out.
Justredd...now take your statement and look at it in a mirror. The conservatives are doing that here about OWS in even worse terms. They talk about rapes and murders as if everyone out there is killing someone. Like its some big orgy or something, and painting the whole movement with that brush. Everyone on all sides uses these kinds of tactics.
HEY SALLY.....rather than working so hard banning people why don't you restore the comments collapsed and completely removed????????????
Now it is bad for the people who want to express their views about banks and wall street and cities pay the price for clean up..but this is so bad. What about a political event when there is more garbage and trash every where and streets and public places are closed for political candidates and the cities pay the price to clean up that mess. But I know that is something different..It is ok for politics but no to people who want to defend their rights to address their problems.
The real story here is not how "Occupy has cost cities millions..." but how cities' OVERREACTIONS to Occupy have cost them millions.
The military-industrial complex goes beyond wars abroad and includes the militarization of local police. Certain companies have made billions from not only wars overseas, but also selling warfare equipment to local cities in the name of being ready to defend against "terror." It's sick and unnecessary, especially when cities are closing public schools and buying ARMORED TANKS.
Just remember, everything looks like a riot when you're in riot gear.
...so Wall Street led to trillion dollars loss - the entire world economy collapsed, but no complaint, no criminal prosecution
...occupy Protests - - harassed and peper-sprayed ...costing only millions -- and in the news?
all of a sudden taxpayers' money is an issue?
..called penny-wise, and pound-foolish?
bc you add no value to anything. that is why taxpayers like me complain about you. oil i can put in my car. heroic soldiers i can root for bc they protect freedom. you are just a lazy unwashed group who want a free ride. occupy a job, bc there ARE jobs out there for people with skills beyond liberal arts degrees (good idea btw on that degree choice). take care of yourself, and i'll do the same for my family. i don't need your 'help' standing up against the 'tyranny of corporate america' while blogging about it on your iphone.
can we give all you ows people a bunch of land like we gave native americans and you can just all go live there? then you can run your country anyway you want. everyone can have free healthcare, no one will have to work much...though i am not sure who will PAY for everything.... anyway, just let us tax paying folks know when you want to move to your new state of Freeloader and we'll get it set up for ya, 'k?
And this reaction tells you something important — namely, that the extremists threatening American values are what F.D.R. called “economic royalists,” not the people camping in Zuccotti Park.
The way to understand all of this is to realize that it’s part of a broader syndrome, in which wealthy Americans who benefit hugely from a system rigged in their favor react with hysteria to anyone who points out just how rigged the system is.
What’s going on here? The answer, surely, is that Wall Street’s Masters of the Universe realize, deep down, how morally indefensible their position is. They’re not John Galt; they’re not even Steve Jobs. They’re people who got rich by peddling complex financial schemes that, far from delivering clear benefits to the American people, helped push us into a crisis whose after effects continue to blight the lives of tens of millions of their fellow citizens.
Yet they have paid no price. Their institutions were bailed out by taxpayers, with few strings attached. They continue to benefit from explicit and implicit federal guarantees — basically, they’re still in a game of heads they win, tails taxpayers lose. And they benefit from tax loopholes that in many cases have people with multimillion-dollar incomes paying lower rates than middle-class families.
This special treatment can’t bear close scrutiny — and therefore, as they see it, there must be no close scrutiny. Anyone who points out the obvious, no matter how calmly and moderately, must be demonized and driven from the stage. In fact, the more reasonable and moderate a critic sounds, the more urgently he or she must be demonized.
So who’s really being un-American here? Not the protesters, who are simply trying to get their voices heard. No, the real extremists here are America’s oligarchs/Tea Bangers, who want to suppress any criticism of the sources of their wealth.
hear hear!
Hugh, you misspoke. There were NO strings attached to the bailout of the Wall Street masters.
This vermin is just the bottom 10% of the 99% they claim to represent. Their actions speak for themselves in that the moral fiber and principles of this country have totally eroded. The Bill of Rights gives us the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, period. Nothing more, nothing less. Not a job, health care, food stamps, housing, education, retirement, so get over yourself. By demanding these things you are violating the rights of others that have earned them which has caused the internal corruption of this country today.
The Bill of Rights went away a long time ago...because it was recognized and not comprehensive enough. That is why we have the constitution. Get with the current program already. :)
Just because you say --------- doesn't make it so! Get a life!
My apologies, I misspoke. I was thinking of the Articles of Confederation. Carry on! :)
I'm all for OWS protesting IF they would protest during the day and go home at night. IF they won't pee on cop cars, break windows, murder others, rape others, and trespass on others property, then go ahead and protest 365 days of the year. Wall street and Congress deserve it.
Whatever happened to Mayor Tony Villar's idea to rent unused office space to his OWS buddies for a cheap price? Don't tell me Mayor Panderer is having second thoughts now that he has to find $5,000,000 just to pay for the cleanup and policing costs.....................
Ok, simple solution. How about the police enforce the law and let the justice system work? Allow me to explain.
1. OWS person camps out past hours of operation? That's trespassing. Cite and/or arrest accordingly.
2. OWS person doesn't clean up their mess? That's littering. Cite and/or arrest accordingly.
These individuals will have fees/fines assessed to them. If they go to court, they'll have court fees/fines assessed as well. If they can't pay, or refuse to pay, they spend time in jail. Maybe after a few nights being a "girlfriend" to Bubba is what they need to learn to obey the law.
Now, to those who say I'm not being sympathetic, I understand the plight and the concept behind OWS. I agree corporations should be held accountable for their business practices and pay appropriate taxes without using loopholes to protect their earnings. However, as been mentioned before, the Bill of Rights does not guarantee anyone happiness. It is up to the individual to apply and better themselves for a better living. Yes, I understand school loans can be crushing, but that is a decision upon the individual; not the country. As a tax payer, it is not my responsibility to prop any individual because they chose to get a degree that isn't in demand or doesn't command a high salary. The same can be said for those who have minimal or no education.
Our society has turned from the, "Ask not what your country can do, but what you can do for your country" ideology to "Give me, it's mine. I don't care where it comes from, but I want and I want it now!"
You want it? Go out and EARN it!
Perhaps this phrase will ring a bell. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.
Exactly...the PURSUIT of happiness. NOT "We guarantee you happiness no matter what choices you make." All that statement does is guarantee that you have the opportunity. What you do with that opportunity actually determines if you get there...We have too many people paying 20k per year getting degrees in worthless, jobless area, not giving their full potential and then complaining that it didn't work out easily. I have many friends who complain about student loans and haven't tried to get more than a bar tending job, haven't tried to further their studies, or spend as much time on the beach drinking as they do bettering themselves...The opportunity to be happy does not free you from responsibility of achieving it.
OWS doesn't want a guarantee just a system that is fair to everyone and allows them to pursue their happiness. A plutocracy doesn't afford this luxury. The system is rigged and totally corrupt which restricts the individuals liberty to seek this pursuit.