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Subscribe to RSSKANSAS CITY, Mo. -- A small airplane that crashed in southeast Kansas was carrying five people with connections to Oral Roberts University to a Christian youth rally in Iowa, a friend of three of the victims said Saturday.
Those killed were identified Saturday as pilot Luke Sheets, 23, of Ephraim, Wis.; Austin Anderson, 27, of Ringwood, Okla.; GarrettCoble, 29, of Tulsa, Okla.; and Stephen Luth, 22, of Muscatine, Iowa.
Hannah Luce, 22, of Garden Valley, Texas, was critically injured and admitted to the University of Kansas Medical Center in Kansas City, Kan. Luce, a recent Oral Roberts graduate, is the daughter of Ron Luce, a trustee at the school and the founder of Teen Mania Ministries, which was sponsoring this weekend's Acquire the Fire rally in Council Bluffs, Iowa.
The Kansas Highway Patrol said the twin engine Cessna 401 went down and caught fire around 5:30 p.m. pm Friday afternoon, nine miles west of Chanute, WIBW.com reported. The plane was traveling westbound when it landed in a field and skidding 200 feet before impacting a tree line, they added.
"The plane lost contact with air traffic control after getting permission to descend to a lower altitude," NTSB spokesman Peter Knudson said. "After that, there was no further communication."
Brooke Ninowski, who recently graduated from Oral Roberts, said she had been friends with Anderson for about two years — he was her brother's roommate for a semester. She said they also had a few classes together.
Ninowski said she also knew Luth and Sheets through school, noting that Luth had dated one of her best friends.
"They were guys who stuck to their morals and it showed through their character, and how they treated people," she said. "They thought of others first. I don't know if the reports are true about Austin, that he might have pulled Hannah out of the wreckage, but that wouldn't surprise me in any way."
Sheets, Coble and Luth were killed at the scene, while Anderson died at a hospital in Wichita just before 5 a.m. Saturday, the Kansas Highway Patrol said.
"They were going to an Acquire the Fire event run by Teen Mania Ministries," she said. "They're put on in various cities, Christian youth rallies where young people come together and learn about God."
On Saturday, Oral Roberts President Mark Rutland issued a statement asking the university community to pray for Luce and remember those who were killed. He said Luth, Sheets and Anderson were recent graduates, and Coble was a former business instructor at the school.
"The entire ORU community grieves for the families of the ORU graduates who lost their lives in this tragic plane accident," Rutland said. "May God grant them peace and they reflect on the precious lives that were so dear to their hearts. We continue to pray for those who are recovering."
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Perhaps your God is tired of the Oral Roberts types taking his word in vain and smites thou.
@John...or perhaps he decided these 4 were worthy of joining him...or maybe he was just on the phone and the engine noise was bothering him
To all the Viners who are Mothers...even though I am a Conservative, and you know how much we all hate women...
Happy Mothers Day
Almost seems like there is always a lovely excuse to get your phantom off the hook, or give him credit. How...interesting. I'm sure if a rare event of survival it would be a miracle, but a rare event of plane crash and death isn't.
LOL... Wow.. that did not take long at all. John and Nibien, is this how you live your life? So filled up with anger that anything is worth a swipe. People just died and you had to use it to vent your spleen their faith.
So much for free will. What's the point of living if this God will kill you whenever they please?
I am almost 100% certain that these people would have wanted to still be alive. Their goal was to go to a Christian rally, not crash and die.
@NY Mike
Not a christian myself...but, If the Christians are right (correct)...then I doubt any of the four would choose to return...
what ever happen to offering your condolences to the family and moving on...4 people lost their lives, families are grieving and people have to give some social soap box speech..show some class will ya, just because you don't believe in a higher power doesn't give you the right to insult others beliefs...and this is coming from a non believer
At what point do people think that the families will even be reading some random blog site?
To pay your respects on this site is like going into the woods all alone and thanking the waiter for the good service you got.
If people want to properly pay their respects, they will contact the church these four attended.
Mark my words. This will devolve into something political when more people wake up. Not exactly the place people would want to go to read up on well wishes for their loss.
you missed my point my friend, I know the familys are not going to read this but you never know...how many times have we seen a make shift memorial put up that is no where near the church where the services are held so those of us who might take the time out of our busy day to say something nice...well consider this blog as a make shift memorial
Hey VH Navy, Religious freedom isn't the same thing as nobody ever offering a cross word at your religion. These were Christians with Christian on their sleeve off to a Christian event where they will learn more ways to tell non-Christians that they are morally defective. Thier God didn't save them, because God is make believe. Christian terrorism isn't make belive. When prominant Christians cheer death from God taking out the faithless with a hurricane - turn about is fair play.
As far as those make shift memorials - still illegal on public land.
Why do viners hate Christians so much?
My condolences to the family.
angry much these days my friend..FYI who said a memorial had to be religious?
why don't you go battle evil on isle 12....
May the Flying Spaghetti Monster bless them and their families in this terrible time.
why is it that those who do not beleave in God are so bothered by him?
By "Flying Spaghetti Monster" are you refering to the Invisible Omnipotent Mad Scientist in the Sky?
Sorry Texasbob, it's not the "god" part that bothers us it's the people who keep the myth going as if it's real. I'm sorry those people died but maybe it's for the best since their goal was to indoctrinate kids into a cult. When people use this "god" to bash, hate, deny, insult others based on their "god" who they claim to speak for and know what he/she would want is simply arrogance at it's worst. I only know the religious of this world hide behind their cults to protect them from learning just how bigoted and controlling they really are.
Cmon Pete ! The flying spaghetti monster is what brought that plane down in the first place!
@ Arsenic and NYMIKE : Very well said my friends.
The saddest part about all of this isn't the loss of young life. It is the fact that Oral Roberts can fleece large amounts of under educated, low income families for millions upon millions of dollars while offering snake oil and oppressive laws in return.
Welcome to a large 'cell' of the American Taliban.
"Science flies you to the moon, religion flies you into buildings."
That is a great saying, Rational. I haven't seen it before ... but I'm going to start using it.
Where's their god now? Oh I guess they were evil devil worshippers on their way to throw kittens at old ladies.
OR...It could be that people have free will and god ISN'T in control of every little thing that happens on Earth.
Here's how to make God laugh,
Tell him your plans.
When you get to Hell, tell Oral I said "hey".
Nice idea, VHNavy, if only it went both ways. But BuyBull believers spend their whole lives and spend millions of dollars insulting and denigrating people who don't believe in their cult rubbish. Why do you Lowlifes always demand respect and tolerance, when you spend your entire lives NOT giving respect or tolerance to anyone else?
People died, I feel for their families.
I do not support the so called "Christian Right" I don't see much they do that has anything to do with Gods message of love. But this is not the time for that.
To those who equate those who don't support the Right Wing Agenda under the guise of Christianity.
It is not God we have a problem with, it is just some of his fans.
Because 1), Newsvine is run amok with liberals (and moderated by them) and 2), said liberals get extremely agitated at those they disagree with and those who don't share their myopic, rose colored view of the world. It's pretty ironic actually. Liberals claim to be more tolerant of diversity than conservatives, but if you don't share their views, you are hated as much as a white racist hates a black person. And that's a fact.
In any event, every time an article like this is posted, or a comment of someone saying "thank God...", you can just sit back and count the seconds before some atheist/agnostic troll comes along frothing at the keyboard.
These 4 Christians are in heaven now. Nothing is perfect and we all have to die eventually. Very soon, a lot of Christians will disappear from the Earth, but the atheists will stay with their new leader.
Not as many will be going that you think there will be if this whole God thing is true.
Too many of them have lived a do as I say and not as I do lifestyle.
All the self righteous people wagging their fingers in the name of their religion, will be left behind.
Also, where does your "very soon" comment come from? You would think that after all the false "He's coming" claims, you would have realised that the book your defending states no one will know. Not even Jesus.
If religion is true, people will most likely be judged based off of how they lived their lives. Those that condemned others based off of their self righteousness better pack for warm weather.
I'm an atheist wo is happy to argue the nonexistence of God. That said, those using a tragedy as an excuse to cheer for people dying do atheists no favors, but just make us look like a bunch of mean-spirited vultures.
If these four Christians are in heaven right now then why is everybody so down? The families should be throwing a huge party to celebrate. It's not that we unbelievers are bothered by God, it's just that we don't understand the often self-contradicting, irrational beliefs of those who claim to believe in Him. And btw, I would never get into a small plane being piloted by a 23-year-old; I personally don't believe in heaven, so I'd kind of like to stay here as long as possible--it's not such a bad place.
Random - When is this going to happen? You appear to have some inside info so please share. I don't want to run out of toilet paper. Who will the new leader be?
The new leader will be the anti-christ. When he comes into power, people will be blind to see his true motives. In Revelation, the bible talks about new world powers coming into play- like China and Saudi Arabia.
And when is this happening?
Very soon. It says in the bible that we will not know the time and date, but we can still look for signs. A lot of the signs that the bible points out are occuring.
How brainwashed are you God worshipers?? God this and God that, pray to God, Blah, Blah, Blah...! Why pray to the entity that just killed your children? Kind of stupid isn't it..... It seems God is non-discriminatory when it comes to causing death. He kills the believers and non-believers at the same rate. If there is a God, he must be a sadistic bastard that enjoys inflicting pain and suffering.
People! When are you going to snap out of your God addiction. There is no God; just the mind control process that these religious fanatics (Oral Roberts, the Pope, priests, ministers, rabis, ayatolas, etc.) want to exercise over you. If we devoted the energy spent on worshiping some non-existing being to helping our fellow citizens, we would be eons ahead of where we currently find ourselves, not to mention all the lives that would have been saved from all of these HOLY WARS!!
Just think of all the good that could have been/can be achieved if all the money spent on constructing these temples (Churches, Synagogue, Masques, etc.) to honor non-existing creatures, instead was spent on useful infrastructure--schools, roads, bridges, parks, etc.
Why is it so difficult to reconcile with the fact that when you die, you die, end of game. No after-life, no heaven, no hell, no joining with God, Christ or the Holy Spook, THE END!! So, make the best you can while you're alive. That's how you will remembered; not because you followed some idiotic, self-serving charlatan that simply wants to control your mind and behavior.
Oh yes. He deemed these 4 worthy of going to heaven early, so he painfully crushed their bodies and then burned them to death in a nice fire of aviation fuel.
If this is what we have to look forward to, I'll take a rain check, thank you very much.
For all of you who are SO instintant that GOD wasnt with them......
If you believed in GOD, you would understand that Heaven is a wonderful place that every Christian longs for. Are their families sad? Of course....but they also know that their children/grandchildren/etc are with their loving Father.
This world is a corrupt place, full of pain and danger.....now they are free...no pain, no fear...and if the families are also Christian....they KNOW they will see them again.
Can any of you non-believers find the same peace?
@lola007
Clearly you've read the literature the 'travel agent' has given you. You should really take the tour. Let us know how your trip goes.
"I want to bring you up to this wonderful place where you'll never want or need anything again! To get your ticket, just step over here and my main man Michael will tear you into little pieces, crush what's left into pulp, and then burn anything that resembles human flesh! But trust me, it's all worth it in the end!"
Yea, I am so signing up for that vacation.
Another case where prayer seems to have been ineffective. Or were these evil young people?
Nope, the kids weren't evil, just misguided. But prayer? Never worked; never will. No one's listening.
But science? Yes, Science can improve those airplanes and make a real difference in the world. There's something to support, kids. Something they don't teach at ORU.
Sad they died, and just as sad that so many brains die at ORU every day. I mourn for them, too.
faux = fake, artificial, unreal
The perfect name behind such a insipid comment.
Funny, Baga, because petitionary prayer is logically inconsistent with a omniscient, omni-benevolent, and omnipotent being. So which property, or action, do you give up?
Oh, just kidding, I'm sure you'll just cover up a few more layers of Cognitive Dissonance on top of the problem.
Prayer? Oh, that's what people like Fauxscot and Nibien do on their death beds!
Thats the beautiful part about that religion there Paul, you can be Hitler and go to heaven, but for some sects if you die as an infant born out of wedlock you get to go straight to to hell.
Paul ...
My dad considered religion to be BS for his entire life. He died last year feeling exactly the same way he always did. Oh wait ... facts don't matter to god obsessed nuts.
Have I mentioned that I'm basing my whole life on the example of Paul the Apostle? He was in charge of persecuting Christians (and other heretics) in Jerusalem. (In fact, he was in charge of the execution by stoning of the first Christian Martyr, Saint Stephen.) Then Christ appeared to him on the road to Damascus.
So ... I'm going to live my life persecuting Christians until Christ appears to me on the road to Damascus. And I plan on staying half a world away from Damascus.
God didn't want them there,, It's a miracle! ---- He's actually "intolerant" of Oral Roberts, who would have guessed? ------ Read the New & Old Testament & understand why
God doesn't like the Roberts gang making 2nd class citizens out of gay, women, poor & needy & limiting freedoms & liberties
That pretty much sums it up...
And, so does that.
How brainwashed are you God worshipers?? God this and God that, pray to God, Blah, Blah, Blah...! Why pray to the entity that just killed your children? Kind of stupid isn't it..... It seems God is non-discriminatory when it comes to causing death. He kills the believers and non-believers at the same rate. If there is a God, he must be a sadistic bastard that enjoys inflicting pain and suffering.
People! When are you going to snap out of your God addiction. There is no God; just the mind control process that these religious fanatics (Oral Roberts, the Pope, priests, ministers, rabis, ayatolas, etc.) want to exercise over you. If we devoted the energy spent on worshiping some non-existing being to helping our fellow citizens, we would be eons ahead of where we currently find ourselves, not to mention all the lives that would have been saved from all of these HOLY WARS!!
Just think of all the good that could have been/can be achieved if all the money spent on constructing these temples (Churches, Synagogue, Masques, etc.) to honor non-existing creatures, instead was spent on useful infrastructure--schools, roads, bridges, parks, etc.
Why is it so difficult to reconcile with the fact that when you die, you die, end of game. No after-life, no heaven, no hell, no joining with God, Christ or the Holy Spook, THE END!! So, make the best you can while you're alive. That's how you will remembered; not because you followed some idiotic, self-serving charlatan that simply wants to control your mind and behavior.
Divine intervention?
With voices from the fundamentalists calling 911 the wrath of God, and calling the deaths of soldiers the wrath of God. With voices from the pulpit condemning civil rights for gays and calling AIDS, the wrath of God, I can only imagine here they will say, God took the best for his own banquet table.....I feel for the families, but cannot condone this organization, nor it's propaganda laden youth events. Lies are lies, and truth is truth, but what these guys teach is just strange. I believe in the Christian doctrines, but what I experienced in these fundamentalist circles didn't fit with Christ's unconditional love and patience. The money-changer atmosphere within the halls reveals the hypocrites for what they are. Oral U is not alone in this by any stretch. I hope the families are awakened by this and rally the fundamentalists behind forces of good in the country instead of the one's they pander to now.
Where's your "God" now, peeps...
Their work is done now is the time for their reward. They have been promoted to a higer level.
What's wrong with you ChrisWanker? What a nasty thing to say and to think.
How is that any more nasty than
Both comments allude to the fact that some divine purpose may or may not exist. How is it acceptable to view perishing in a fiery plane crash a "promotion"? Isn't fire a symbol of the devil while trumpeting angels are associated with god?
If you think that life ends here than you think my post was mean. But if you believe your life with God doesn't end with your death than it isn't. Yes they have gone on but that is not the end it is just a beginning. A new existence with the Father in heaven is something to be comforted by. Since you do not believe you cannot understand. Fire on earth has nothing to do with the glory of heaven. These symbols are not things of earth. Fire is also purifying. Don't get a headache over it. Symbology is not for those with american public school educations.
Devine intervention....I love that one. See, that Christian crap is no good for nothing.
Now folks, let's get some news. This stuff is not important at all. Ciao.
agree completely
How brainwashed are you God worshipers?? God this and God that, pray to God, Blah, Blah, Blah...! Why pray to the entity that just killed your children? Kind of stupid isn't it..... It seems God is non-discriminatory when it comes to causing death. He kills the believers and non-believers at the same rate. If there is a God, he must be a sadistic bastard that enjoys inflicting pain and suffering.
People! When are you going to snap out of your God addiction. There is no God; just the mind control process that these religious fanatics (Oral Roberts, the Pope, priests, ministers, rabis, ayatolas, etc.) want to exercise over you. If we devoted the energy spent on worshiping some non-existing being to helping our fellow citizens, we would be eons ahead of where we currently find ourselves, not to mention all the lives that would have been saved from all of these HOLY WARS!!
Just think of all the good that could have been/can be achieved if all the money spent on constructing these temples (Churches, Synagogue, Masques, etc.) to honor non-existing creatures, instead was spent on useful infrastructure--schools, roads, bridges, parks, etc.
Why is it so difficult to reconcile with the fact that when you die, you die, end of game. No after-life, no heaven, no hell, no joining with God, Christ or the Holy Spook, THE END!! So, make the best you can while you're alive. That's how you will remembered; not because you followed some idiotic, self-serving charlatan that simply wants to control your mind and behavior.
Yo-Ho
Its sad that you believe that...no wonder you are so quick to condem Christians and their beliefs...its because WE have hope beyond our deaths and you have none....I would be afraid to die, too, if I was in your place...but instead, I have peace knowing that when I die, I will be with my loving Savior. The same peace that these people had before THEY died. Ever consider that maybe, just maybe, they have been spared a life of pain and fear, and instead are now with their Savior? OF course not, beacuse you dont beleive in Him....They did, however, and are now safe and happy in Heaven.
Of COURES their families are sad....but they have the peace of knowing their children are happy and safe, never again to feel pain....and know that they WILL see them again.
Only a fool says there is no GOD! The day WILL come when you will see.....
Boy ooh boy, if it wasn't for the loving hand of God, that plane would have hit the tree too. Thank God!!!
It's sad that they died.. Even thoughs of us that aren't religious should not poke fun at the dead..
Being dead is a natural function of evolution and it's quite natural there is nothing "sacred" about being dead.
I'm sure no one is celebrating their deaths, it's merely ironic(?) that they did indeed die in the circumstances that they did. Maybe "God" cherry-picked them for some work "He" needs done in "Heaven"?
Really???
That's not how it appears after reading these posts.
Four people are dead and one is fighting for her life after a tragic plane crash and the vultures are joyfully circling on this article - three pages of mostly hatred and all because these young people are Christians.
Thank you for your thoughts but we know that those who do not believe cannot understand. We the christians know that these young people are with us now. They have moved up God's corporate ladder to a higher level. Their strength is there for us to help us in our work for God.
chefaz remember John 15 If the world hates you,realize that it hated me first. We cannot expect their love because we do not serve their world. But do you really care if they hate us? I believe what is more important than their hatred is the Father's love. also John 15 As the Father loves me,so I also love you. Remain in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father's comandment and remain in his love.
Well aware of it, lonereb but should we tolerate hatred??? I'd like to talk to you further but must leave. GOD'S peace be with you.
American christians originate and spew more hatred than anyone. So yes, you should tolerate it when it comes right abck at you. It's called karma.
Well...look who's here...uh...bernitch, best destiny, danny1914275 oh oh it's dmorgan today, isn't it??? Happily trolling your usual delusional vomit. you have my sympathies. Glad that I was able to stop back one more time before I left to say hello to you.
Is it "hatred" because people don't accept your ideology? Because some choose to believe without proof doesn't mean that those who need more "proof" are haters? By that analogy, how your intolerance any less "hateful" than their doubt?
Not accepting my theology does not require you to make fun of other peoples beliefs. It does not require you to make fun of the death of young people. If I call these young people my brothers and sisters in Christ (religion ) They are also your cousins proved by the human genome project and the RNA project that traced all of us back to one woman (science). So I only expect you to respect the rest of the human race that you are part of. You do not have to believe my religion but honor your people the human race
Christian theology is based on love, patience, tolerance, forgiveness, peacemaking, and read the Beatitudes and what was said by Christ. Now look at what right wing "Christians" say, or so it appears, and tell me lonereb that you don't make fun of or condemn people who are Muslim, or any country you hate or would kill at any given time.
Right wing "Christians", or some who profess to be Christians, have called for the genocide and killing of other religions, i.e., Islam, killing of millions of people they do not even know, judging them all when "God" is supposed to judge, not them. They are paranoid and fearful of almost every bogeyman presented by them or the "government instead of trusting in the God they believe in with no fear and following the principles of the "God" they worship.
They believe in wealth, not helping the poor. Many have stated or so it has appeared that if you can't afford medical coverage, then you do not deserve to live, or it is your problem. They are not for single payer, but believe it infringes on their personal rights, i.e. money keeping. Many support Wall Street and crooked "gov't", but would llke to cut Social Security and Medicare, which the citizens paid for, and helps those who worked all their lives.
Romney supports the bombing of another country, which hasn't attacked another country in hundreds of years, and which would pose no real threat, possibly killing tens of thousands,when there already is a country in the Middle East with illegal nuclear weapons that practices apartheid and when 5,000 Palestinians were killed or maimed compared to 14 Israelis of that country, they blamed the Palestinians. As a matter of fact they are uncritical of Israel, but some of the "ministers" I see condemn all other countries that "get in the way" of there beloved country, even though that country was formed by killing directed by "God", which is insane and would be an insane "God". "God" was talking to everyone in the Bible but not talking too much lately. Many hear voices, they say, but it's not like "God" comes down and talks to us.
So if say to honor "your people the human race", make you and your "brethren" do so also.
great post, truthin. unfortunately, since you didn't post any bible quotes in your message, those who need to read your post, won't.
truthin
Your attempt of misdirecting politics and calling it Christianity has failed. Just by going to church doesn't make one a christian, just as standing in a garage doesn't make one a sports car. My point is you out-rightly and on purpose make claims of Christian hatred that simply is not true.. the ironic thing here you do it knowing that you are lying but won't admit it. I am a Christian, all it means is that I understand that human nature in inherently evil and everyone has it. In knowing this, as ALL Christians we fight our human nature to align what God tell us in the bible. Paraphrased: Keep your words sweet, Love one another and believe in Grace and Charity> We don't feel better than you, in fact we have a higher regard for humans that should make us more humble. So get your head out of your ass and have a close look what the christian churches are actually doing in your own community. My wife and I, along with many churches in our city put beds out in the winter in our own church buildings so the homeless have warm beds... nightly it changes to another church... we share the work and its all volunteer & different churches, even different religions... but no one can tell you that... you think you know us, but you don't...
How brainwashed are you God worshipers?? God this and God that, pray to God, Blah, Blah, Blah...! Why pray to the entity that just killed your children? Kind of stupid isn't it..... It seems God is non-discriminatory when it comes to causing death. He kills the believers and non-believers at the same rate. If there is a God, he must be a sadistic bastard that enjoys inflicting pain and suffering.
People! When are you going to snap out of your God addiction. There is no God; just the mind control process that these religious fanatics (Oral Roberts, the Pope, priests, ministers, rabis, ayatolas, etc.) want to exercise over you. If we devoted the energy spent on worshiping some non-existing being to helping our fellow citizens, we would be eons ahead of where we currently find ourselves, not to mention all the lives that would have been saved from all of these HOLY WARS!!
Just think of all the good that could have been/can be achieved if all the money spent on constructing these temples (Churches, Synagogue, Masques, etc.) to honor non-existing creatures, instead was spent on useful infrastructure--schools, roads, bridges, parks, etc.
Why is it so difficult to reconcile with the fact that when you die, you die, end of game. No after-life, no heaven, no hell, no joining with God, Christ or the Holy Spook, THE END!! So, make the best you can while you're alive. That's how you will remembered; not because you followed some idiotic, self-serving charlatan that simply wants to control your mind and behavior.
You will answer someday to your "smart" mocking remarks,how sad.
Wow... look at that, John and Nibien aren't alone. You guys (and perhaps gals) are happy to say things online that you wouldn't dare say to their families. No condolences. No sympathy. If you represent atheism, I'm reallly happy to be a Christian.
We all die. Christians know this. It's how we live our lives that matters.
Christians tend to behave no differently... Countless are the times I've read here on Newsvine, some self-righteous jerk spouting off that he'll be laughing in heaven at the atheist who is burning in hell. There can be a lack of class on both sides of the aisle.
Of course not. There are tens of millions of us who do not need organised religion to do good by others.
If there is one true God out there that created all this, I would like to think they they will judge people based on their actions, and not how many times they prayed or dumped money into a collection plate.
Mike, people that claim to be Christian will mess up. Bad things happen in this world but that does not mean God does not exist. Many people that believe they are Christian aren't going to make it through judgment. It's not all about being good and doing good works- that's too easy! :-) It is a good beginning tho.
Nor does it mean there is a God.
Not a single person alive can show that there is or isn't an almighty being.
The only real truth will come when each of us dies. Like I said, I believe that if I live a good honest life and there does happen to be a God, I will be judged based off of that good and honest life.
Until then, I will continue to do right by others because it is the right thing to do and not necessarily the religious thing to do.
When I see unorganized people founding hospitals and schools or running soup kitchens and food pantries, I'll probably change my mind. But you know, I don't see you doing all that much. Like I said, it's not how you die, because you will die. It's how you live your life. Here's the truth, I'm not all that fussed that you don't believe, as long as you will roll up your sleeves and come down to feed some people. Now, I have to go off to do those things that need to be done right now. My church has chosen this month to purchase mosquito nets for people in 3rd world countries to reduce mortality rates. We also are gathering donations for the local food pantry and we are busy planning a fundraiser to provide services to the local homeless. See you. I have too much to do right now.
Mike, I agree with you. I read this thread because I wanted to see how many hate spewers there were this morning, I wasn't surprised.
Here is a comment I wrote to some fanatic on some other vine:
"This a prime example why there are atheist and agnostics, we preach it but don't show it. I believe in God and was raised Christian but I don't don't see much difference in a Muslim and a Baptist. The Muslim will show you the Koran and behead you if you don't follow and the Baptist will show you the Bible on Sunday and stab you in the back on Monday. One big difference is you know where the Muslim is coming from but the Baptist is like a snake it only bites if you get too close or step on it. Snake, isn't that a symbol for something?"
It appears to apply here as well.
Immanuel Kant proved to the satisfacion of most Western philosophers that the existence/non-existence of GOd ultimately comes down to Faith. He did this around 3000 years ago in THe Critique of Pure Reason.
I have no condolances for the families of Evangelicals ever. Happy to say it to any Christians face. You are the American Taliban, and I hate your terrorism.
And diffenet, with all your high morality, you won't send those mosquitio nets unless you wrap them around a bible first, will ya. And none of the homeless get to eat until someone mouths a meaningless prayer over them, do they?
Try doing good works without strings attached for a change. Thats what atheists do.
You have no idea what I and others like me are doing. It's thinking like this that has you viewed in a less than stellar light. Not only do you assume that those of us that do not subscribe to organised religion are doing nothing to help the less fortunate, but are also arrogant enough to parade around your good deeds in the name of your religion.
Now read the following verses and see if you can find it in your heart to actually follow them, instead of bragging about your deeds.
Matthew 6:2 - 4: So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and the streets to be honored by men. But when you give to the needy, do not let your right hand know what your left hand id doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Why is it that someone that doesn't subscribe to organised religion, knows more about its teachings than many of those that do?
This comment is not a blanket statement. It is aimed at those that feel that have to brag about their good deeds when their religion clearly tells them not to.
Just like the good works you're doing now Arsenic? I don't believe you have done anything for others based on the way you treat strangers. Don't worry if I was as hate-filled as you I'd probably be an atheist too. Funny the only person I see with a holier-than-thou attitude on here is you.
Try taking your own advice. Then you won't appear to be such a buffoon to other posters, ESPECIALLY to those among us who are not religious.
Of course you're happy to be a Christian, you simply don't know any better.
PS Immanual Kant didn't live 3000 years ago. But other than that, Ronald Husein Reagan pretty much had it right.
I believe in an Immanual Kant that lived 3,000 years ago. He was on the boat with Noah. I'll declare a holy war on any infidel who doesn't share this belief!
To Aresnic.... Your comments are vile and disgusting, I am a Christain, and also a Veteran, and I would like to see you call me a American taliban to my face, I live in Daytona Beach, where do you live, lets meet up and see how brave you are in person.
Z-Man - LOL! You're a REAL tough guy! LOL! Crack is whack, fool.
Happens all the time. For example: those atheists Bill and Melinda Gates have done more than any handful of lowlifes you can come up with in your goddam church.
And, by the way -- they've managed to do it without leaving tens of thousands of raped, abused and molested children in their wake. You BuyBull-thumping POS's have the lives and families of THOUSANDS that you have destroyed with your church leaders in every denomination who can't seem to leave children alone without raping or molesting them.
"*IAM*" THE HOLY "CHOSEN ONE!" ~HYH~HWH~*~0~*
My ANGELS are *~HERE!~", AND ON NOV. 14-2012 at; 11:52 p.m.
All "living and non-living things on the crust of "*MY*" ball of dirt!<~shall be: SUCKED UP, BY AROURA BOREALIS'S "BOTTEMLESS PIT'S BLACK-HOLE!!!"
"AND "*I*" MEAN "EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!
"MARIANNA'S TRENCH" IS "OPENING!", AND THE CORE OF MOTHER EARTH, SHALL RISE OUT OF MY SEA'S AND EVERY "EVIL" SOUL IN UNIVERSAL EXISTANCE ON MY BALLOF DIRT., IS BOUND TO "MOTHER-EARTH"S *LAKE OF FIRE!!!!!!!!!!" ALL NOT FOLLOWING "*MY*" "COMMAND!<OF THE FOUNDATION OF "*MY*!" ~SYSTEM OF THINGS~ IS TO BE FOUNDATED ON THE SOCIAL GOVERNMEANTS CORE ADJECTIVE, AND OBJECTIVE IS ****LIFE*&*LOVE****!!!!!!!!!!
I'm just glad that the kids are here to see a real life example of good, old-fashioned, religious gibberish. Thank you, Thomas. I could not have worded it better.
hahahaha...sign me up hahahah!!!
QUOTE:Z-man-601352 To Aresnic.... Your comments are vile and disgusting, I am a Christain, and also a Veteran, and I would like to see you call me a American taliban to my face, I live in Daytona Beach, where do you live, lets meet up and see how brave you are in person.
----------------------------------------------
i.e.- you're going to prove there's a God by beating him up? Some of the comments here are really vile but I wish Christians would stop to think why they have turned so many people against them. (hint: it's the "I know how you should live" thing)
Siara Delyn.........Aresnic is the one with the big mouth, read his post, I am very tired of cowards like him who hide behind their computers and spew vile garbage against Christan's, but don't have the balls to back up their comments. You don't have to give me any hints, I don't tell anybody how to live their life, and you shouldn't tell me how to live my life, you are no different than aresnic with your anti-Christian hatred.
The mistake was in going to an Acquire the Fire rally to learn about gawd.
Perhaps they should have headed to Beg for the Egg to learn about the easter bunny.
Maybe Born for the Horn and learn about unicorns.
As a pilot I am curious about the cause of this accident. I'm sure it had nothing to do with the Say Hasta to the Pasta rally for flying spaghetti monster going on at the same time.
No, you just threaten them with violence for disagreeing with you.
Irony? Stupidity? Mindless, knuckle-dragging neanderthal? You decide...
dmorgan..... read post 6.8, you decide how vile and stupid Aresnic is.
alexsomething thank you for your hatred it proves that I am on the right track. For I do not care about your approval. To get your approval I would have to deny Him. IMHO you must forgive their lack of historical knowledge they are products of the American school system. Not only was Kant on the boat with Noah but according to them the current pepe is well over 500 years old as he was the head of the congragation of faith and doctrine during the inquisition. I think it is time for american schools to start teaching the subjects and not the test.
quoting a mythical cult book, post after post, doesn't make it real or factual. it's still an unprovable, mythical cult book.
Cheers!
Hmm.. it seems there is quite an argument here. Is this really how we want to spend our Sunday? To all Christians, Jesus said in the bible that it would be hard to convince Atheists that he exists. You can't really talk to them over a computer, you have to talk to them in person. My preacher even says it's difficult to talk to Atheists about religion. We all know we go somewhere when you die, but the question is where do you want to go? Jesus be with you all.
Maybe what the people find so ironic about this situation is that it involved a group of religious people going to/from a religious event from a religious institution. If they truly believed in a supernatural being to protect them they were let down. Being from Oral Roberts University, one would think they had privileged communication with God. After all, just a few years ago Oral got a direct message from god telling him that god needed millions of dollars to carry on god's mission. Remember the nationally televised tearful "Calling Me Home" speech? They raised the money and shortly thereafter god called Oral for another mega-dollar installment. They raised the money and god told Oral to congratulate them and let them know they would be receiving special attention because of it.
Is this god's special attention?
#6.17
Nice one So the likes of you, in a few years maybe decade, will name your " Religion " Amandagatebill to Heaven " nice one!!! AGB instead of LDS hmm!!!
As far as Bill and Melinda Gates go.... So, let me get this straight, because 2 atheist are doing more than their fair share that absolves the rest of you? As far as those who say they are Christians and yet aren't acting very Christian.... Let me get this straight, in your world, 2 wrongs make a right. Because they are jerks, it's okay that you are? Wow, once again proving why I choose to be a Christian.
And as far as Kant goes, he failed to carry his philosophical work to the end. The ultimate end of atheism is nihilism. Of course, Kant gets a pass because he didn't understand that the sun would some day go nova or that the universe would either implode or simply pull itself apart eventually, depending upon which scientific theory you believe. Our species will not survive. So, there is no purpose to life. Why not just finish it all right now? Life has no meaning under atheism. We are nothing but cows going trhough our lives; eating and pooping. In fact, our very existence is nothing but an accident, an astronomically miraculous accident, if you calculate all the mutations and
environmental conditions that had to fall into line for us to exist, but still just an accident. And everything you think and feel is an accident and an illusion with no meaning. That love you feel for your child - it's just an accident of the chemicals in your brain. The grief you feel at the passing of a loved one - it's just an accident of your brain chemistry. Anything you believe, think or feel is all just an accident of chemistry. Sorry, but I reject atheism not because I couldn't be good without God, but because I refuse to have no meaning.
How brainwashed are you God worshipers?? God this and God that, pray to God, Blah, Blah, Blah...! Why pray to the entity that just killed your children? Kind of stupid isn't it..... It seems God is non-discriminatory when it comes to causing death. He kills the believers and non-believers at the same rate. If there is a God, he must be a sadistic bastard that enjoys inflicting pain and suffering.
People! When are you going to snap out of your God addiction. There is no God; just the mind control process that these religious fanatics (Oral Roberts, the Pope, priests, ministers, rabis, ayatolas, etc.) want to exercise over you. If we devoted the energy spent on worshiping some non-existing being to helping our fellow citizens, we would be eons ahead of where we currently find ourselves, not to mention all the lives that would have been saved from all of these HOLY WARS!!
Just think of all the good that could have been/can be achieved if all the money spent on constructing these temples (Churches, Synagogue, Masques, etc.) to honor non-existing creatures, instead was spent on useful infrastructure--schools, roads, bridges, parks, etc.
Why is it so difficult to reconcile with the fact that when you die, you die, end of game. No after-life, no heaven, no hell, no joining with God, Christ or the Holy Spook, THE END!! So, make the best you can while you're alive. That's how you will remembered; not because you followed some idiotic, self-serving charlatan that simply wants to control your mind and behavior.
Why didn't they ask Jesus to take the wheel?
They did, but Jesus was known for poor altitude control - owing largely to his ability to just walk away.
Wasn't he their copilot?
Some navigator.
WWJD? 350 mph nosedive into a field?
Can walk on water but can't fly a plane? Technology too advanced?
Shame on all of you for making this tragedy an opportunity to spew jokes, hate and intolerance!
My condolences to the families and prayers (whether they're heard or not) for their comfort during this terrible time.
I know. I don't understand how some can be so cruel. If it was their kid, they wouldn't be talking all that junk. Some parents lost their kids, and that is not funny or an open door for hate and intolerance. It's just mean.
The tragedy was sending bright impressionable youths to Oral Roberts University for a education in the imaginary. What a waste of talented American youth. I am mean to the religious. Ya'll deserve it, every day.
Well, they are at rest. Remember, no one gets out of here alive.
so much for jesus being their co-pilot.
probably not a good idea to pretend to have a mythical creature in the empty seat of a cockpit.
Aresenic - it sounds like some "Christian" treated you badly and I'm sorry for that.
Part of the problem is that a lot of Christians themselves use their religion as an excuse for hate and intolerance (e.g.- gay issues). What goes around, comes around.
Where's the tragedy? Four Christians just went to heaven. You know, the place where all Christians ultimately want to go. And their families know that they will see their loved ones again. It's not like they're gone forever. So instead of grieving, they should be celebrating. Four more Christians just went to their eternal reward. Good for them.
It's only a tragedy if a person doesn't really have faith and doesn't really believe in an afterlife. From a non-believer's perspective, this event, and all violent deaths, are a tragedy because we know that we only get one life and that once it's over . . . it's over forever.
Like he'd be the only one... all they do is treat people like crap.
When you can say that you do not treat people like crap as evidenced by what you have said here then you have a right to judge. For everyone who derides the loss of a young life to feel superior you have no right to judge others. If yours is the world we are headed for I hope I don't live that long. DMorgan you have no right to feel superior nor does arsenic you are just as bad if not worse and yours is a world without humanity or hope.
nobody is feeling superior, punkin. you just seem to get really pissy when people speak with logic, critical thinking and facts. I know how inconvenient all of those things are for you. but that's life. some choose reality. others choose mythology. don't just sit and steam-up over the fact that people choose reality over your mythology.
cheers!
Looks like a tolerant christian is intolerant of people questioning the reality of a divine being.
Some people may trouble reconciling the fact that a supposed divine being couldn't make it off this mudball alive. In fact, we're told that he was tortured and killed for our benefit. Isn't that like a kid trying to grasp the logic behind a parent saying "it's for your own good that I'm beating your ass"?
#8.9
No All have a " Right to Judge " fear NOT Judging, just understand the following Rule, Someone earlier mentioned " Karma "
1 “Stop judging that YOU may not be judged; 2 for with what judgment YOU are judging, YOU will be judged; and with the measure that YOU are measuring out, they will measure out to YOU. 3 Why, then, do you look at the straw in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the rafter in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Allow me to extract the straw from your eye’; when, look! a rafter is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First extract the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to extract the straw from your brother’s eye.
6 “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw YOUR pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip YOU open.
16 By their fruits YOU will recognize them. Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire.
Hello Eagle. Good to see you.
Yes, they did.
Amazing how many claim that they believe in nothing but love tossing around the Hindu doctrine of kharma. And if they claim that there is no way to prove that GOD exists, how could they begin to prove the doctrine of kharma - which of course they don't believe in since they don't believe in anything.
Well said, Eagle.
How brainwashed are you God worshipers?? God this and God that, pray to God, Blah, Blah, Blah...! Why pray to the entity that just killed your children? Kind of stupid isn't it..... It seems God is non-discriminatory when it comes to causing death. He kills the believers and non-believers at the same rate. If there is a God, he must be a sadistic bastard that enjoys inflicting pain and suffering.
People! When are you going to snap out of your God addiction. There is no God; just the mind control process that these religious fanatics (Oral Roberts, the Pope, priests, ministers, rabis, ayatolas, etc.) want to exercise over you. If we devoted the energy spent on worshiping some non-existing being to helping our fellow citizens, we would be eons ahead of where we currently find ourselves, not to mention all the lives that would have been saved from all of these HOLY WARS!!
Just think of all the good that could have been/can be achieved if all the money spent on constructing these temples (Churches, Synagogue, Masques, etc.) to honor non-existing creatures, instead was spent on useful infrastructure--schools, roads, bridges, parks, etc.
Why is it so difficult to reconcile with the fact that when you die, you die, end of game. No after-life, no heaven, no hell, no joining with God, Christ or the Holy Spook, THE END!! So, make the best you can while you're alive. That's how you will remembered; not because you followed some idiotic, self-serving charlatan that simply wants to control your mind and behavior.
Yes, can't help but seeing the irony of this
There is no irony. Only some parents who have lost their kids in a very tragic way, like thousands of others. Or, do you think kids dying is funny? Only a nonparent could be so hateful.
Delores Williams...sounds like YOU are being hateful AND judging others...oh my..those are sins...enjoy your stay in hell for eternity.
There is a lot of irony, Delores. Put your BuyBull down for a while, and try something new called Critical Thinking.
If you know the true meaning of irony, laced with tragedy, then there is certainly irony in a plane headed for an "Acquire the Fire" event ending in a fire. It is tragic AND ironic, and I hope that the surviving young woman recovers from her critical injuries and is destined for great things.
Irony and humor are not synonymous.
There is also nothing hateful about questioning irony.
Maybe if you opened your mind to other perceptions this wouldn't strike such a raw nerve.
cbawl, you are suspended for a month for violating rule # 1 of the Code of Honor.
Last chance.
Oral Roberts has scamed money out of people for may years in the name of some god. Maybe this is payback.
How so?
How does the death of four people that believe in Christianity equal payback for a person you clearly do not like?
Are the death of Christians that are not the person you do not like some kind of justice for you?
then god should have used a bolt of lightening up BG's rectum...why kill 5 kids...god had nothing to do with it.
cbawl, yes god or the imaginary god had nothing to do with it. Now you're getting it.
Nevertheless, thousands of morons today will start Hand-Mumbling, pretending that their cult god is listening, taking notes and preparing to take action of some sort.
I do not need a tragedy to hand mumble as you call it. I know my God is present in my life at every moment from birth to death. I will pray for those so hateful they can take joy in the death of someone else and use it to make fun off others. Your bullying attitude makes me wonder how you can keep a straight face when you say others bully you. You are hypocrites of the first order. But I will still pray for your guidance because I fear for this country if you gain control with so much hatred for those who have faith.
every cult believer says the same goddam thing. and not one of you can prove it. regardless of the cult you belong to. the muslim says it, the xian says it, the hindu says it, the american indian says it, the buddhist says it. not one of you can prove your myths. so, chill out. your cult claims don't have anymore to back them up than the others do. it's uninteresting and it isn't compelling to anyone engaged in critical thought.
cheers!
it's not "as i call it". it's what it is. i see it all the time. they press their hands together. bring them to their mouths, and start mumbling into their hands. Hand Mumbling. and then, they pretend that something "out there" is listening, taking notes, and considering whether or not to take action...
...based on absolutely nothing. like every other cult.
I really question that. If you truly believed then you wouldn't be here defending your god.
Or is your god not strong enough to fend for itself?
You fear for this country if DMorgan gains control? Where was your god when those thousands died in the collapse of the towers a decade ago? Could your god not over-ride the wishes a few terrorists? If god doesn't have that much control, what impact will a prayer from you provide? How much clout do you have?
Prayers for Hannah Luce. These young adults were being examples of their faith, so all the idiotic jibes are uncalled for and mean spirited. Suppose it was your kid on a plane, would you want people talking trash? Have some sympathy. The death of a child is the hardest thing for ANY parent to endure, and it has zero to do with being of faith or not. It has to do with being human.
Delores Williams....Thank you for your post, It's nice to see someone who is not so hatefull on this forum. Also Happy Mothers Day.
What good will hand-mumbling do?
dmorgan...... what a vile comment, I will say a prayer for Hannah Luce and the other families involved in this tragedy, I wonder what you will say about me.
How does "critical thinking and logic" equal "vile" in your world?
What an odd little creature you are. But, then again, you did just go through another strangely self-contradictory sequence in the threads above, where you threatened someone with violence for not agreeing with your point of view, AND THEN you started to preach on about "I don't tell anybody how to live their life, and you shouldn't tell me how to live my life"... Which, of course, made me LMFAO at your own hypocrisy and two-faced approach to everything...
The only one I see as two faced is you. You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in the face. But I forgive you, because you are nothing but a anti-Christian bigot.
So tell me what you will say to parents at the loss of their child with your critical thinking to help them. What comfort will you offer another human during a time of loss? I never see any thought for others at a time like this even animals show greater feelings than you do.
they are typically the same people who denigrate gay people every chance they get, they denigrate women and other minorities every chance they get. and then, when something crappy happens to them, they suddenly want the world to "feel for them" ---
--- what do I say to them? i say nothing to hateful christian bigots, who spend the rest of their time trying to ruin the lives of millions of other Americans while also trying to brainwash other young people into falling into this nonsense cult of theirs.
Does that mean that if you know the truth even though it hasn't hit you in the face make you a pro-Christian bigot?
I don't denigrate gay people but you judge everyone by your view. I don't denigrate atheists I just wish you would quit trying to shut me up. I do not hate you. I wish you a worthwhile life whatever that may be for you. The problem is that you will attack any christian since you dislike this or that denomination. Even those who have done nothing to you. It is not we who are in charge of the brainwashing going on in public schools these days. I don't go around changing the names of holidays of ethnic groups without understanding the history that goes with them. Thats you dawg. I just pray you never get put in charge of maps in this country we will all be lost then.
I can't help but wonder why any of you christians think this is a tragedy.. I mean, these kids were christians, so by your beliefs, now they're kickin' it in eternal paradise. Isn't that what all of you christians are shooting for anyway? Their families are also of the same ilk, so they shouldn't be sad either.. Their kids made to it to the "winners circle"... and through their own belief, they will be reunited when they kick the bucket.
The only thing that I can logically decipher from your claims of tragedy is that no one calling it thus really believes in their own religion. If you are truly grieving this occurrence, perhaps your faith is far more lacking than you'd care to admit.
Mockers, scoffers and unbelievers are at it so early in the day...condolences to the families of these young people.
and the mindless, hateful, denigrating, intolerant BuyBull believers are at it all day EVERY day.
so, get over it.
dmorgan.....Sorry to say, but you have way too much hate, you are far worse than the people you mock.
honesty, logic and critical thinking may equal "hate" in your narrow little world. but I choose to speak logically. sorry that you can't tolerate logical thinking.
cheers!
honesty, logic and critical thinking may equal "hate" in your narrow little world. but I choose to speak logically. sorry that you can't tolerate logical thinking.
cheers!
Honesty as a human I know the pain of loss and treat others with compassion because I have lost loved ones. Logic We have lost every generation that would have come from these young people and mankind is poorer for it. This had nothing to do with God but with humanity. As a Christian I love all my brothers and sisters even when I think you are on the wrong path and I will pray for your return. I will also pray that you learn the difference between humanity and religion. I have seen dogs with more humanity than I have seen from atheists on this site.
Aren't you supposed to celebrate going to "heaven" no matter how it happens. Therefore, every true Christian should be celebrating the advancement to "heaven".
as a non believer my self i find it deeply disturbing that there are those with the same belief as me who would take the time to read this article and make comments like they have solely based on the fact that these were Christians....I am sure if the victims were not Christians there comments would be completely different
it seams you guys spend so much time worrying about what others do with your own time maybe you should just mind your own bushiness and keep you personal comments to your self or maybe we can read an article about one of your family member passing away and make the same remarks and see how how you like it
Show a little class people
Navy ...
I can appreciate your position ... but I don't share it. The Bible tells us to "turn the other cheek" but it's like a lot of what is in the Bible: Only true in special circumstances. Other posters have pointed out that ...
... The families are not reading this; other Viners are. The comments are intended for these other Viners and theyre appropriate in that context.
... There really is a huge irony in all this and if Christians were rational, they would see it. It's like anything else that is remarkably absurd: You just want to remark about it.
... Christians can be, and are, as callous and cruel as any of us non-religious people have been. One of the things wrong with "turning the other cheek" is that they never get to see what the other side experiences.
And besides ... as my post above makes clear ... it's just a jizz for me to tweak the silly nut cases.
Show whatever class you think is appropriate. I'll show the class I think is appropriate.
Porter, Yes no class at all.
It goes both ways. The religious spend their whole lives denigrating others in our society, spending millions of dollars trying to make sure they don't get equal rights under the law, hating people, smacking them down... First things first. If BuyBull thumpers don't like people shooting back at them, then they need to stop shooting at people in the first place. Get it?
talk about "mind your own goddam business" -- they need to walk that talk FIRST before demanding that of anyone else.
I agree with you guys there are some religious nuts out there who dont walk the walk, tell me I am going to hell and all that mumbo jumbo..but at the same time there are some of us who feel we have to fight fire with fire..me, not my style man, I just give a healthy "that is your opinion" and go about my merry way...I could care less if they want to paint a religious mural or pray for me because i have better things to worry about...I just think it is wrong for some of the people on here to talk @!$%#, say they are happy that they died, or where is your god now.....just because I don't believe in one gives me the right to make horrible comments like that....so I still feel they should mind their own business because there is a time and a place to debate religion and this is not one of them
Some? Get real. It's the VAST MAJORITY.
If you are interested in true, honest debate, then at least BE HONEST.
Again, stop being dishonest! Nobody here said they were happy these kids died -- although, the irony is, many christians WILL say that, because they claim they are now with the mythical jesus creature. The ones who are happy are the brainwashed, mindless people. Try to stay on track...ok?
Porter Rockwell the human family lost some wonderful young children before they had time to leave their mark. Our country lost some wonderful young citizens before the were able to achieve their dreams. I lost some young siblings even though I never knew them. For we are all the children of the human family at some point if we follow our human genome back we are related. And these are your cousins and their families you are making fun of. Thats the science of it. The religion of it is that these were my brothers and sisters in Christ although we are of different denominations.
My condolences to the family. This was a tragety. I hope thier faith gives comfort to thier families and friends.
I hope they learn to put faith and effort elsewhere...
Proof that religion kills. If they weren't religeous then they wouldn't have been going to their cult meeting and wouldn't have been killed.
Yea. They might have been in a crack house talking about how great Obama is.
I left a pile of ralph396 in my toilet this morning then flushed it away.
Surprise....ralph396 lives in a High-Rise on the 38th floor...looks like it if flowing back your way...OPEN YOUR PIE HOLE WIDE!!!!
I just wiped my Mark-391344 after dropping my load. I didn't want call my pile a Mark-391344, it was better than that. It did resemble Mark's main man, however.
How funny. All my life, mainstream christianity has been spitting acid at mormonism, calling it a cult (in the negative sense) among every other foul word to describe it. Now, mainstream christians are lining up behind Romney to lick his butt. What two-faced lowlifes. This election proves everything I've ever said about mainstream American christians -- two-faced liars and cowards, every goddam one of them. Romney running for president, as their candidate, proves it.
I am so tired of people like you with a foul mouth, I am a christian and I am voting for Mr. Romney, so that make me a two faced liar and coward in your book, but before you spout off some more, let's compare DD-214's and see who the real coward is, that is if you served at all.
Z-Man
Man, you act like you are the only veteran that ever existed. Bragging doesn't make you a hero. Here's a word for you: Humility. Google it. PS, love your Christian approach. Just like Jesus, you go for the balls. LOL!
Thanatos...... You stalking me, LOL, Never said I was the only Veteran that ever existed, never said I was a hero, but I do know and have seen a few real American heros, in action, in Vietnam. I am glad that you like my Christian approach. LOL
Further proof that there is no god. If there is, then he is one mean SOB.
This incidence is NOT proof that God doesn't exist. Your problemwith religion is infantile. An adult would be content with understanding that what SOMEONE ELSE believes is really NONE OF THEIR DAMNED BUSINESS. Grow up you infantile imbecile.
wrong thread
Moderate in jerkwadville and Pauly need to get to church and confess for being so nasty and bitter. They don't act very churchladylike.
No...nasty is Your mind, and bitter is your lifelong companion.
Moderate is busy sinning by spewing hateful comments and thinking hateful things...out of defense for his loving and caring all power full god that just killed 5 kids... later Moderate will just tell his god he is sorry for sinning and those 5 people will be alive again....
Yep, when I was young a prayed for a bicycle. I finally figured out religion. I went and stole a bicycle and prayed for forgiveness.
IMHO ...
Believe it or not, I once knew a petty thief who did exactly what you're suggesting. He used to time his stealing to spend as little time as possible not in a "state of grace" to lower the probability that he might die that way and go to Hell. Evidently, his God was easy to fool. Seriously!
If only those who Believe would take your advice: mind their own goddam business and realize that their beliefs don't have to be everyone else's!
Goes both ways -- you're a two-faced, hypocritical lowlife if you can't understand that!!
The strangest thing is that those who do not believe are jumping on some people I don't even think are christian because they told them off. Two of the people you are so mad at I would bet on a stack of those books you hate are either stheists or agnostics.
OK wow im a @!$%# and don't hold back on some issue's but damn people if you don't have faith don't knock someone who does
Don't demand that until those with faith live by those rules -- and stop knocking those who don't!
Cheers!
DMorgan I don't make fun of atheists. I don't agree with you. This is or was the United States and I thought that was my constitutional right. As I believe it is also your constitutional right. I do however believe in common courtesy. Something seriously missing in this country lately. Courtesy for your information is what makes it possible for large numbers of people to live peaceably in cities and towns.
It's easy to mock something you don't understand. I try to see the miracles in life every day and give thanks. Living in a small community I can't believe how many people I know who have had the misfortune to outlive a child, six in just a three mile radius of me and dozens more in town. We will never understand why things like this happen, they just do. Never forget you or your loved ones could be gone tomorrow.
And only a worthless slug of a moron would use a tragedy that took the lives of four people to run off at the mouth because they have nothing to believe in other that their own sorry self.
Don't you need to get to a cult meeting this morning?
Just imagine, JP, all those who denigrate others based on only the fact that they do believe in a cult god. And they do all their lives... How do ya like THEM apples?
Wow.....Nice to know that when athei@!$%#heads die they all atheis*hit their pants. Let's face it , if they didn't have religion to attack they would be like a tree falling in the forest with no one in earshot. Did it fall...or didn't it?? Point is, no one gives a damn. Religion must be the big bad old boogeyman that hides under their beds at night waiting to take a big old hot heaping crap on the athei@!$%#head.
No, to an atheist, religion is more like ludicrous nonsense and childish, wishful thinking that weak-minded, fearful people are able to delude themselves into believing because they are unable to face the reality of their temporary existences.
Still.....NONE OF YOUR DAMNED BUSINESS. Eats your ass to the core doesn't it??? AT LEAST THEIR EXISTENCE HAS MEANING TO THEM AND MANY , MANY OTHERS. Your ridiculous views shadow your own post above, dipstick. Good luck with YOUR meager ass existence.
Too bad you and the blobuddies Paul and Ralph weren't on that plane too. The world would have three less psychos.
Such hate for someone defending religion.
What faith do you follow? One that condones hate and intolerance?
Yes, you can just FEEL that christian "love" flowing from ModMad! Idiocy doesn't "eat my ass to the core" pal, it just makes me shake my head in disbelief at how stupid some people can be.
Amen to Leroy! In my experience, religious people are far less tolerant and understanding because the KNOW they're right and everyone who doesn't agree with them are damned anyway.
The "positive" that can come from this is that all these deluded people who can clearly see now that there are a lot of other people who DON'T "know" that they're right. There's always the possibility that they might actually start thinking as a result.
There isn't any other kind!
There are two words that are often confused by the religious: "Faith" and "Confidence".
As my dad used to say, "Faith is believing something you know damn well ain't so." Confidence, on the other hand, is understanding that if something has happened the same way before, it's likely to happen that way again. I have confidence that the sun will rise tomorrow. I don't have faith about it.
Religious nuts like to display this picture of a mountain goat leaping from one rock to another with the title below: "Faith" ... No, that's "confidence".
Say what ever you will after a week ago friday I will never question my Lords prescense in my life. I am still here to annoy you thanks to Him.
JESUS in the name AL-QAIDA of CLINTON might have rasied them into the Heavens!!......lollllz
Sorry for the families' loss. It would appear this is God's will if they are true believers.
their cult god decided that these families needed to suffer the pain and the loss of their children. don't question your cult god!! it's part of his grand plan!!
Yes DMorgan it is all part of His plan. That doesn't keep us from feeling pain and loss. Because that is part of being human. Another part of His plan. I accept that I do not expect you to accept it. I do not think you are less of a human because of your lack of acceptance. And it is for that reason because you are human that I expect humanity from you. I expect human feelings from you. And I expect respect for the human feelings of others from you. Not because you believe in God but because you like I am human and will someday feel those same feelings which I will respect because you are human.
Religion is fear people have used throughout history to control and manipulate other people. To believe that some deity is micromanaging this one planet among possible billions in this one galaxy which is one of hundreds of billions of other galaxies each with billions of planets is insane. Oh, that's right, the religeous nuts believe the earth is the center of the universe, is only 6000 years old, and evolution is a myth.
Still.......NONE OF YOUR DAMNED BUSINESS!! And, let's face it, I don't think there is a rush to join the ranks of "Aethei@!$%#" following. Just the opposite, according to data that is available. Looks like your opinion and arguments are not very believable.
Except the catholic church has agreed that evolution is real since the 50's. Mark you don't know @!$%#. I love it how you atheists say that if there was a God that you would be judged for all the good you do, but the problem is intolerant people like you do no good. You say cruel things to other people over the internet and possibly to their faces in real life and still think you are a good person. You sir need a serious reality check on how to treat other people.
sorry ModMad. there is no atheist following. atheism is a lack of a belief in your cult gods. nothing more than that.
it's kinda like suggesting there is also a following of everyone who doesn't believe in leprechauns, or a following of those who lack belief in the tooth fairy. or an a-unicornist following.
you've got some growing up to do, punkin!
DMorgan! How faithless of you!!
Don't you know that my God Odin rules the universe and all other gods bow down before him!
See you at ragnarok!
you two sound very smart, totally original. No one has EVER made that comparison or satire in the history of the world. What a totally original and well-thought out response! Darn, dmorgan and porter are just too smart for us!
sorry alex. we had no idea that facts would be so inconvenient and frustrating for you...
DMorgan it is your lack of humanity that I find so disturbing not your lack of religion. You do admit you are human right. Since you are human you will not be free of the pain that is human when this happens to you. I can only hope that you find people more tolerant of your pain than you are of the pain of others. It is your lack of human kindness I find intolerant. It is your lack of human feelings for others I find a danger to our society. This divisiveness fueled by hate from both sides and the need to always win at all costs will be the downfall of this country. We have stopped being Americans first.
Sympathy to the families and friends of these young people. What a tragic loss and heartache to face and especially at Mother's Day. May the peace and love of their family and friends bring them comfort. May they experience God's presence, comfort and strength.
Regarding other comments - People of faith are not exempt from life's tragedies and hardships; however, they have a different source of hope and consolation when facing these situations.
Agree. Atheists seem to be too stupid to even recognize that their posts here are more of an attack on the pained families mourning, than on religion. But most idiotic biased ideologies are cruel....especially with atheistic haters.
I have to go --- there is a bush burning in my backyard. I have to go listen to what it is saying.
This coming from someone spreading more hate than anyone here.
Believing in organised religion isn't a license to be a hypocrite. Open your Bible and pray for forgiveness for you have lost your way.
Trust me when I say you're not doing your particular religion any favors.
Where's their god now? Oh I guess they were evil devil worshippers on their way to throw kittens at old ladies.
OR...It could be that people have free will and god ISN'T in control of every little thing that happens on Earth.
Or, it could be that your cult god doesn't exist. Not one single cult, including the xian cult, has ever been able to prove any cult god exists.
Cheers!
They are with their God now. And I do not have to bring God to earth for you. You are His creation He does not bow to you. If He did He wouldn't be God then would He.
lonereb: not much of a rebel if you are so easily fooled to believe in any "god" that a man tells you about. Perhaps if "god" hadn't broadcasted his meanings so clearly like the tablets and burning bushes in a way that only a select secretive few are in the know about but must spread the word... of course they are the ones in power then and then when the church of christ is created they too use the religion to retain power (as noted by Vatican City the country: of which all of christianity is literally anti-christianity as jesus never collected a tithe... kicked over the money tables and was killed over this, never built a church... see previous comment regarding, never turned his back on anyone who needed help for any reason... see previous comment, never felt a rich man would go to heaven... see previous comment... basically the whole of the anti-christian cult is the most duped of all and they flaunt it like it's a good thing they are so ignorant?!?!?). Is spirituality important for the human experience, I feel so. However, once a man tells you how and what to believe you have just stepped into the world of scam artists using our own fears of death as tools to plow their easy streets of oppression based soley on what they feel is good and not what is truly good. Further if there is a god it wouldn't follow anything remotely along our mundane fleshy human lives. We could not communicate nor would have anything to discuss. We'd be lower than ants in our own ant farms to the god mentioned by any religion so why would they deal with us in any way? It's all a ruse... wake up! Take the red pill... realize that all organized religion and govts. left unchecked and mega corps are ruining the world!