I'm not "rich" by any stretch of the imagination... however, I need to ask one question.

How much of every dollar an individual earns should they be allowed to keep? 90 cents? 75 cents? 50 cents? Exactly how much should the people that earn the money be allowed to keep?

Conversely, how much are those who do not work allowed to siphon out of the system?

XDm, YEP!

California is a rich and powerful state. There is no reason for it's problems but mismanagement. It already has some of the highest tax rates in the country (along with some states in the New England area). The year I lived there, I hemorrhaged money. They charge for everything. You can't even park in the woods without paying.

They can't balance their budget because they're spending too much. Giving them more money will only allow them to spend more and drive high earners out of the state.

...often a successful business benefits quite a bit from government policy help - such as subsidies - just ask farmers. So it's only fair for those who benefit more from the system to pay more back to support the system so that more others can be as successful.

What happens when CA runs out of rich because they have left the state. You are then faced with all those remaining that are already getting government subsidies and of course Hollywood. But at some point, even they will revolt. CA promised more than they could ever fund. The exodus from CA is increasing to states that are business friendly which CA ceased being a long time ago. Wake up America.

And here's the reason why my wife and I don't live in my home state. We aren't in the highest income bracket now, but we will be in a few years once she's done with her residency. Currently we make about 200K a year, so why would we want to live somewhere where financial success and hard-work is vilified? Working professionals like us did not create the economic mess California is in; it was an over-zealous government run by public sector unions who continued to siphon money from the taxpayers so they could line their own coffers. If you think people like us are going to sit there and take it up the a$$ for these people, you have another thing coming. I would love to move back to So. Cal to be closer to my friends and family, but until the state decides to grow up and fix their problems without raping the taxpayer, I'm going to stay away.

Not every 'rich' person is bringing in $10 million a year like a Hollywood Star or professional athlete. The majority of people affected by these tax increases aren't much different than anyone else; we have mortgages, student loans, car loans kids to raise, etc. Meanwhile, California can say goodbye to one more doctor and one more CPA.

Did you see Jerry Brown's cowardly YouTube plea to raise taxes? No once did he mention any sort of cost containment or reform. Nope, being typical moonbat that he is, the answer is always to raise taxes.

Maybe Jerry should consider removing all the illegal immigrants from the welfare programs. Seems legal California residents are paying a heavy price for all those illegal immigrants. Are Californians willing to watch their schools and public safety suffer while illegal immigrants are milking the system?

The other phenomenon that's occurring in California is the mass exodus of people and businesses. What's going to happen when all the productive, taxpaying people and businesses leave California?

So, Jerry Brown wants to tax the "rich" more. Obama wants to tax the rich more. The rich already pay a disproportionately high level of taxes and these two jokers want more. The rich will just get up and leave California, and even the U.S. Just look at Facebook co-founder Eduardo Saverin, he has given up his U.S. citizenship to avoid an estimated $600 million in taxes he'll have to pay on capital gains for his Facebook stock. Who is laughing now? You can bet there will be more rich people leaving just like him. Then who is Jerry Brown and Obama going to stick with the tax bill? The middle class, that's who.

Time for government at all levels to get serious about cutting spending and controlling the growth of their budgets. Clean up the welfare rolls, get rid of government waste, get rid of benefits packages for employees that are way too generous. That's a start.

Pigotry

those who benefit more from the system should contribute more to the system.

Agreed! That is why the bottom 48% of persons in this country who pay ZERO federal taxes should pay SOMETHING!

BTW the first three letters of your screen name perfectly describe those 48% who are useless drains on society.

When government gives tax breaks and other subsidies to farmers and other business, these businesses are more likely to succeed.

What are tax breaks and subsidies? - money given away by government to businesses - or successful people.

They (progressive-liberals) just don't get it! People with money will continue to leave this sanctuary welfare state in droves. We are not wealthy, but are leaving this fall as we are sick and tired of working to pay for illegals and welfare/social programs to the extreme.

The state no longer has anything worthwhile to stay for. Cost of living here is ridiculous, it's a sanctuary state and the infastructure is crap! We are going to a prettier state, with much lower taxes, very few illegals and much better infastucture. The boring weather is about all California has, and that certainly is not enough. This state is no longer the "Golden State" and hasn't been for 25 years. It's gone to sh**!

TonyinWyo: That is why the bottom 48% of persons in this country who pay ZERO federal taxes should pay SOMETHING!

In a recession caused by the Wall Street, many have not earned enough- BUT They still pay taxes - such as payroll taxes (social security and medicare taxes), sales taxes, gas tax, and many other forms of taxes inbedded in various products and services they purchase.

Pigotry

...often a successful business benefits quite a bit from government policy help - such as subsidies - just ask farmers. So it's only fair for those who benefit more from the system to pay more back to support the system so that more others can be as successful.

A cute ploy at diversion. HOWEVER..... you did NOT answer my question.

HOW MUCH OF EVERY DOLLAR A WORKER EARNS SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED TO KEEP??

The other phenomenon that's occurring in California is the mass exodus of people and businesses. What's going to happen when all the productive, taxpaying people and businesses leave California?

Then the entire state will become one big messycan welfare state supported by you and me.

The '$16 billion gap' is partly caused by Bush's tax cut for the rich - welfare for the rich - including 'corporate welfare.'

Property taxes on churches is a good beginning.

Allowing you to keep more of the money that you earned is not the same as giving you money. I just never can understand people who want to believe otherwise. The Government should have to fight to justify every percentage they take out of your paycheck (whether you make a lot or a little), not the other way around as you would have it. However I also feel that if they are going to take from some they should be taking something from ALL.

I also don't get along with people who say we are in a recession "caused by wall steet," and ending it right there. No, we are in a recession caused by wall street, main street, big government, and everything in between. We are in a recession because the majority of American's decided in the last couple of decades that they were tired of waiting for the American dream, and just took out loans and mortgages and credit cards and borrowed it all. We lived the good live, and the banks were glad for the business, and many did everything they could to blind themselves to the risk they were taking, and the government was mandating that everyone should have a right to buy a house, and made banks have to give out junk mortgages to people that they never would have given if they had used sensible business practices. But everyone giving the loans was making their dollar, everyone getting their loans was living the high life, and the government was marching around proud of how many people were now buying houses, living the American dream. Everything looked great until the first few people started missing payments, then the bubble was popped and it was all a very fast downhill from there. It was all one big lie, and every American who participated in any capacity is equally responsible for it.

@Pigoty:

The gap is caused by out of control social/welfare programs and a huge population of illegals! And people that won't get off their a**es and do something for themselves. You keep on demonizing the "rich", who are the people that create jobs and turn the economy. Pathetic! You think the person sitting on their a** does anything to improve the economy? You think the person here illegally does anything but drain our economy?

The problem is not the so called "rich". The problem is people thinking someone else should pay for and take care of them! Hell, parents (if you can call them that) don't even have to pay for their own kids anymore. They can send their kids to school, we can pay to feed them breakfast, lunch and dinner, give them after and before school care, give them a check to house and clothe them. All they do is pump them out!

What's gonna happen to the takers when the givers stop giving?! Who are you going to take from then?

Running on a treadmill.

Make 50,000 single mom, dead beat dad, children under 12, daycare, food, clothing, housing, electric, transportation should pay more taxes according to most posts on here, which she would be included in the 48%. Maybe people don't realize rent goes up every year it does not stay the same, food goes up, electric costs goes up, transportation goes up as a matter of fact every business has some sort of increase in price. So how would cost cutting solve any short fall in the governments problem and that single mom's life. I know you would get rid of the kids or stop eating and clothing yourself and the kids. Because those are the things you can control.

Stop ALL subsidies! No more handouts to people or business, will that work for you PIG?

Go to a flat tax, no deductions, credits or exemptions. Everybody works or they don't receive. Everybody pays their fair share. Work a little= receive little= pay little Work more= receive more= pay more.

It won't work. These people will take their money and leave, as businesses and the affluent area ALREADY leaving in California. Britain recently raised its taxes on the rich, and the next year, tax revenues from that section of society actually DECLINED. There's ample precedent of the same thing happening in the USA as well, if anyone cared to look up the countless economic studies of the phenomenon. Who will they come after next? The upper middle class, then the middle class, etc. etc.

The real way to close the gap is to cut spending, just like a person/family/business must do when they realize their monthly expenses exceed their income.

As a resident of the once great state of California, the issue of budget deficits was not caused by any action by Bush. President Bush cut the federal tax rates (with the cooperation of Congress), not any state taxes, much less California's. The president, regardless of whom is in office, cannot set state taxes, the states do that on their own. California's issue is quite simply we spend too much, and when we have a good year in taxes, we set that as the standard, and spend more. What's sad is that it really doesn't matter who the Governor is, we've had deficit spending under both Republican and Democrat Governors. What that tells me, is that the State Assembly, and the State Senate have overcommitted, and the Governor's haven't the will to veto the spending bills.

Perhaps someone will come to the realization that if you are operating in the red, you really shouldn't commit some horrendous amount of money to high speed rail. There was an article in the L.A. Times this morning that said if we don't meet an incredibly tight construction schedule, there's a high probability that we lose some of the federal funding. If that happens, Californians have to make up the difference, in the form of higher taxes. Good job for all elected officials, regardless of party affiliation.

The '$16 billion gap' is partly caused by Bush's tax cut for the rich - welfare for the rich - including 'corporate welfare.'

A state budget gap is caused by a decrease in the federal tax rate? Please go quietly sit in the corner and let the grown-ups talk. Everyone on this board is now dumber for reading this comment.

I make just about six figures and have two kids no in college.

Ah, ineptocracy in action and there's no way for them to go but down. This is complete BS by the governor designed to con the unwashed masses into believing that a tax on the rich will solve all of California's problems and the sky once again will be filled with sunshine and rainbows. Judging from a few posts here, it seems to be working on at least some of the gullible. They are on a fast track towards the abyss.

As a California resident and voter I cannot and will not ever vote for a tax increase until the morons running this state tackle the elephants in the room. The govenor needs to start by truly tackling pension reform and showing the SEIU, CTA and the corrections unions that he truly means business....oh wait, Govenor Brown is bought and paid for by those organizations.

The '$16 billion gap' is partly caused by Bush's tax cut for the rich - welfare for the rich - including 'corporate welfare.'

Pigatory, what does Bush's tax cuts for the rich have to do with California running out of money? All that did was lower federal income taxes and has nothing to do with California's self-created dilemma because that federal income tax revenue wasn't going to California in the first place.

I moved from CA two years ago, taking my six figure salary with me. I don't miss paying some of the highest taxes in America, not to mention $4.50 for a gallon of gas, so the state can pay generous welfare benefits to illegal aliens and exorbitant salaries and pensions to public servants.

1. $600,000 annual pensions City of Bell Manager Robert Rizzo and $100,000 annual pensions for lifeguards is part of the reason CA is in such dire straights.

http://money.msn.com/retirement-plan/article.aspx?post=b8c6c560-cf5a-4d6f-8b5e-c76a826dd059

2. The other reason is all the taxpayer money used to "assist" illegal aliens living in CA and the subsequent abuses of the system, such as $69M in welfare benefits being spent in places like Las Vegas and Hawaii

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1317737/California-welfare-scandal--69million-benefits-spent-Vegas-Hawaii-Disney-World.html

3. Or perhaps building new $105 million schools that sits empty, with annual $1M costs to maintain the EMPTY BUILDING.

http://www.educationnews.org/ednews_today/157364.html

All brought to you by the liberal utopia of Demoracts who enjoy spending other peoples money.

.

Great post Dogma! The voters of California have spoken by electing Governor Brown. "Get er done" Gov!!

Hey Jerry keep it up. Ricky pack your bags their will be companies looking for new homes. Texas will benefit.

The people with money can just leave or use their "2nd Home" as primary to avoid the added tax. You need to work on the Illegal Mexicans who overflow the jails, crowd your schools, and bleed the welfare system dry. The rich need to pony up but they are not your true problem..........

You could ask all your Hollywood Stars to skip their Scientology "donation" and send to the state but they would miss a write off, screwed again.

They never ever ever want to cut spending...so funny these Democrats...

In California - all we see is business leaving the state. They are already taxed too high. This is a largely liberal state and the wealth DO pay their taxes. SO, raising the taxes will certainly send more from the state.

How about cutting back on some of the stupid expenditures. I cannot believe the expenditures I see every day, in the name of "good"

VIVA WISCONSIN! Just 18 months after inheriting a 3 billion dollar debt, Wisconsin is in the black to the tune of $100 million +. No ones taxes were raised, no one was fired. Governor Walker made the tough choices and did what needed to be done for everyones benefit. Governor Moon Beam as well as Illinois are the personification of tax hell holes. Go luck with that.

P.S. Walker wins the recall race in 3 weeks. How utterly absurd that a politician be punished for doing what he said he'd do and it actually is working.

Hey Dogma why don't you get smart we don't have any state income tax for you either not just the rich guys. And we only have 8.5% sales tax. Just before school starts they take that off so you can get your kids school clothes without taxes and we all buy new clothes and shoes. Head hunter that doesn't fly the Bush tax cuts were nationwide and we don't have your problems and our kids get school lunches and all that too. And we have a 1290 mile long border with Mexico.

"Tax the rich, feed the poor, 'til there are no rich no more." --Ten Years After

It won't take the rich ten years to flee CA if Governor Moonbeam gets his way.

Tax the wealthy, so the government leeches and fraud cases can have their expected ENTITLED standard of living.

What a joke Brown is.

Socialism only works until "other people" run out of money!

Why should I work, to have GOVERNMENT ROB (tax) my hard earned money and give those funds to a bunch of leeches to lazy to cover their own asses!!a

Clean up Government FRAUD, cut Government!

Free the Minds, try moving to France it should be heaven for you.

The wealthy think they can threaten everyone by saying they will leave the state or the country. GO! TAKE A F'N HIKE! We'll do just fine without you.

Well Dogma, judging by the number of rich investors and businesses pulling their money out of this cesspool, you aren't doing fine. Highest deficits in the country, massive unemployment, etc. Keep tooting your horn until the only people left in the state are over-paid government employees and illegal immigrants/welfare moms suckling off the public teat.

Dogma bites 1.33

I see you're just one more that rages against the wealthy thinking they get some sort of tax breaks and should be made to pay more. I hate to burst your fantasy bubble but the rich; the top 1%, pay 37% or all income taxes and the top 5% pay more income taxes than the other 95% combined.

You should look upon the wealthy with favor because it is they that pay for all your entitlements and other free stuff. If you happen to be one of those rare ones that don't get any free stuff from the government, you should still look with favor upon the wealthy because without them, your tax burden to pay for the entitlement dregs will increase dramatically.

You have been conditioned over the years to believe the wealthy somehow get tax breaks and pay little to no taxes. Pay attention and you'll see this is just another progressive lie to perpetuate class warfare.

They elected jerry brown, they got what they deserve. Everyone knew what he is. High tax, big spender.

hiap - could not say it better myself, though i have been trying for years. The credit card mentality was a short term get rich quick plan put together by people that knew the end result. Loan agents knew better but they collected their cut. Banker exec'c knew better but they got their cut. Merchants knew better but they got their sales/cut. Joe public did not have to wait and work for his dreams to materialize.

When the proverbial hit the fan none of them had to give it back. After all, they were only doing what they were told to do.

If you ask for nothing

and nothing is what you get

who's to blame.............

if anyone has more money than i do, which most do, then they are RICH..California treats ALL State Employees; from teachers to policemen w/ Liberal Wages & Benefits..that's the problem too many yo's yo's gobbling up Revenue..sure, human services take a toll also, but what are people to do when there is NO DECENT employment..Calif. chased businesses away years ago.. it's Like; they made their bed, now they got to sleep in it..Build more Prisons; WHATA STUPID CONCEPT !!!....

I live in California. There is no revenue problem there is a spending problem. If you confiscated every penny from the upper 10% you would only have enough money to run our state budget for 11 months. Businesses are leaving right and left for Texas and other states that are friendly to them.

I agree with Pigotry, those who benefit the most from the system should have to pay for it. That means all the prison guards, teachers, firefighters, and other government employees who are taking advantage of the system should pay. We need to reform government so that these workers can't work the system to get ridiculous payments for overtime, hazard pay etc. We also need to reform the system so that government employees start paying for a good portion of their health care and their pensions.

I need to add my 2 cents 8) since that is about all I have left living in this State.

Me and my wife are struggling and can not make ends meet and we both make just a little over 100k a year.

Wells Fargo modified our existing modification into such horrible and unfair terms we could not fathom paying for these new conditions and terms. On paper we were promised 30 year fixed hamp program 8) instead these sonsabitches gave us a 40 year Adjustable with a fat lame balloon rider at the end of the loan term 8( All the bastard said from Wells Fargo was take it or leave.. I told him to go pounds sand and fine another patsy.

It's just not worth paying 1.1 million dollars for a house that's worth 220k.

Brown thinks he is actually going to get the votes come this next election lol but it's not going to happen... The citizens of this State have had it "NO MORE TAXES" we already pay higher taxes then just about anyone else.

The school are completely broken over 50% in LA unified drops out 8(...

The cost for higher education is so damn out of control that only the super rich can afford to send their kids to UC.

Epic Failure = Democrats who control CA legislation.. They control it all.. We only have 1 party in this State.

Hey Governor, why don't you pass a special tax targeted at your buddies in Hollywood? Those lowlifes are rolling in money, and most don't do much to earn it....they're not even particularly talented. I mean, if Clooney can get them to gleefully cough up $40k to support the incompetent clown in the Whitehouse, they should be equally happy to fork over a few million apiece to save the state where thay make all of those bad movies.

Raise taxes on the rich

Gee that's original. Just take more of what you're not entitled to instead of doing something novel like earning your keep and living within your means. And these same people get all angry when people move their businesses and money to other countries.

Class warfare will never make this country a better place.

when taxes get to high, those that have the ability, vote with their feet, they simply walk away;he could tax everyone in California making more than 1 million per year at 100%, and not come close to filling a 16 trillion deficit; California is dead broke(illegal immigration, high taxes, crime gangs,a welfare system out of control,a public pension system all killed it); the giant un-believable crisis around the corner for California is, their Bond payments, State, County ,city; they have pledged ALL, their funded retirement systems to the bonds, the retirement money is all used up, their welfare payments, Calcare, and public schools have eaten up what was left, what is there to do to get out of this collapse, ANSWER NOTHING.

MOST of the causes mentioned by most of you all, ALL have a say in this mess...but....

George.Zimmerman

And here's the reason why my wife and I don't live in my home state. We aren't in the highest income bracket now, but we will be in a few years once she's done with her residency. Currently we make about 200K a year, so why would we want to live somewhere where financial success and hard-work is vilified? Working professionals like us did not create the economic mess California is in; it was an over-zealous government run by public sector unions who continued to siphon money from the taxpayers so they could line their own coffers.

What show was it month or 2 back, 20/20 ? that focused on San Jose...where by CONTRACT public workers benefits HAVE to equal 90% of their pay ??? holey cow.

ALL the issues need addressed to fix this. From the crap on Wall Street, all the way down to public worker benefits. It is EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE to give pensions, and medical benefits, to people with ONLY 25 years service !!!! Show me ANY private business (not gov. contract workers either) that can afford that kind of perk !

420 Frees the Mind (post 1.42):

Or do like 90% of Americans do, take pay-day cash advances.

Who in the world ever told you 90% of American’s take “Pay Day Loans? Please provide the reference that shows that. Also if Barry “I shoved a plump girl” is reelected, the entire country will have the same fiscal reality as California.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2012/05/in-his-own-words-obama-admits-smoking-reefer-drinking-beer-and-enthusiastically-doing-drugs-in-high-school-video

We must educate OUR citizens.

We already have free education for 13 years (pre-K to 12th grade) taught by the highest paid educators in the world. They might not be the best, but the Unions (AFT, NEA) ensure that they're the highest paid. We give out $28M in college grants each year and spend MORE money on education that the top five countries combined and we rank below average on most international testing standards.

http://www2.ed.gov/about/overview/budget/budget10/justifications/p-pell.pdf

http://nces.ed.gov/surveys/international/reports/2011-mrs.asp#science

Far from “freeing” your mind, it looks like “420” has fried your mind, Dude!

NOBAMA 2012!

.

The funny thing is, is that Cali would have a massive budget surplus if they got back what they paid in to the federal coffers.

In addition, ALL states (and the federal government) should be raising taxes on the rich to ease their budget pains.

In addition, ALL state (and the federal government) should be cutting spending to ease their budget pains.

Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves...

When Clinton raised taxes on the rich in 1993 for his first budget, he said sorry to a couple of millionaires who worked on this budget. One of those rich replied that they were not concerned, because when higher taxes restored confidence in the bond market and in the general fiscal health of the nation, the stock would go higher, and they (the rich folks) will more than make it up there in the rising stocks.

The rest was history - remember the roaring '90s?

The rich benefit MORE from this policy of 'invest and grow' policy, instead of the short-sighted policy of Bush Tax Cut which gives money away and shrinks the productive investment in science and tech and education - look at the student loan issue!

The US tax code is full of loopholes that SOME rich folks abuse to become richer, not by working harder, but by benefitting from the Wall Street government that gives away too much pork and allows too many loopholes to be exploited.

Why the tax rate is lower on stock dividend 15% compared to those businesses that invest in manufactuering and hiring workers (36%)? Wealth is hidden in stock portofolios, avoiding taxes, leading to stock market fluctuations which hurt most people.

“It is a paradoxical truth that tax rates are too high and tax revenues are too low and the soundest way to raise the revenues in the long run is to cut the rates now … Cutting taxes now is not to incur a budget deficit, but to achieve the more prosperous, expanding economy which can bring a budget surplus.”

– John F. Kennedy, Nov. 20, 1962, president’s news conference

Economics 101 from a Democrat, who if President today, would be a Republican based on fiscal policy.

The key words "in the long run". Reagan followed this example. It took a few years, but the economy eventually took off, which resulted in the "roaring '90s'.

More Economics 101 from Kennedy here: http://www.wnd.com/2004/07/25640/

Living in CA, I can tell you that this is a systematic problem that raising taxes won't fix.
When the recession first hit, CA lawmakers passed a resolution "temporarily" raising taxes on everythigng from a 1% sales tax increase to doubling DMV fees. Guess what, it wasn't enough. They still had a budget deficit. Last year, the only way Governor Brown could balance the budget while not touching the public employees pensions was to project 5% growth in our state. Obviously, that didn't happen. So now, he wants to raise taxes instead of touching the public employees pensions. Why not deal with the #1 deficit facing CA, the public employee pensions???

For those not in CA, making $100,000 or even $200,000 is not "rich". Not when the average home is $700,000+, the cost of living is highest in the country and when we are already taxed higher than any other state. The average household income in much of CA is well over $100,000 and believe me, we aren't all living in mansions in Malibu.

hs321 --

your context is missing -

when JFK did it (tax cut), the tax rate was too high! Now tax rate is half that of Eisenhower's last years. By the way, Eisenhower, the first GOP president in 20 years, refused to cut taxes because he was really comfortable sitting on the huge pile of tax dollars.

Context is important: when tax too high, cut; when tax too low, raise it. it's common sense.

Interesting approach Gov Brown. The state employees take a 5% pay cut and a 20% work hours cut. That equates to a nice hourly raise in my book.

As for raising taxes to cut the deficit, some might want to look at the result of the Illinois Governor's state tax increase. The increase, a reported 66% overall, caused less spending, relocation of many paying the increased tax. The result: After the tax increase the budget deficit was LARGER.

So, go ahead and grab more. Realize, of course, that the more you take the more people and businesses will move out of California. And regardless, at some point in time you will max out the amount you can take (even if it's 100%) and you still will have to pay the bills and balance the budget. What then?

Time to quit acting like Greece and face the facts. There are real limits that must be met. Face them now, do what needs to be done, or next year (which the elected don't ever worry about) the deficit will be larger and the tax increase will grow again and probably include the rest of the states employed.

Brown: Never met a tax I didn't like!

Pigotry,

Simple math escapes you. Keep spouting socialist nonsense. The reason California finds itself in this dilemma is the bloated entitlement system. Governor Moonbeam there should take a lot of the blame since he supported all of the "stuff" that California can't pay for any longer. I lived in LA for several years and found the amount of taxes I paid vs. dreadful services to be appalling. California was once of the world's greatest economies by itself, but that changes by the day. Businesses large and small have fled the state due to the onerous business tax structure. No tax base, welcome deficits. Easy stuff, really, but it takes a while to lose weight when you go a diet and you are as morbidly obese as California's entitlement system.

You can blame Bush, the weather, my dog ate my homework, whatever, but until California reins in its spending, it can look back in a few years and say, "we were great once". A shame, really.

Why the tax rate is lower on stock dividend 15% compared to those businesses that invest in manufactuering and hiring workers (36%)?

- Pigotry

To encourage investment, and the jobs that investment in private enterprise creates. It's one of the major ways the wealthy benefit society. That's fundamental 1st year econ stuff.

the problem is the 'job givers' are laying off people and taking risky bet.

- sockurmouth

You mean risky bets like Solyndra? Oh wait, that risky bet was taken by the federal government. High speed rail? Oh yeah, the Cali state government is placing that risky bet. I fail to see how those, and countless other examples of risky government spending, advertise that they are better equipped to responsibly manage our money than we can on our own through investments.

We can watch where the money goes as much as we want. It doesn't stop it from being wasted, even if those responsible aren't re-elected.

@sockurmouth

What?? None of what you said makes much sense. You think businesses want to lay people off? That means they are not making enough to pay for whatever job is eliminated. I don't know what business experience you have, but if you operated on the assumption that jobs grow on trees, everyone is entitled to a job, etc., you are seriously misguided. You would be out of business inside three months.

But then, you knew that already. Right?

They need an Entertainment Tax. Just tax 40% of the gross of all movies and TV shows. They make millions and have all the write-offs. I'm sure Hollywood will support it.

I think we all need to review the opening of one of the greatest documents
ever written:

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary
for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with
another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal
station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent
respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes
which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be
self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their
Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and
the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are
instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the
governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these
ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute
new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its
powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety
and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established
should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all
experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are
sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are
accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations,
pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under
absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such
government, and to provide new guards for their future
security.

We all need to stop defending our chosen elected
official or party, and start to defend the tax payers of this country.
The scumbags in Washington know with all of us out here defending them
regardless of party affiliation they just need to sit back, remember "DIVIDE AND
CONCOUR". All you have to do is look at the resent news, $53,000,000.00 stolen
from a small Illinois town, Solendra $500,000,000.00 down the toilet, double and
triple dipping of over inflated government pensions at 80% for life,
$500,000,000.00 in Midicare fraud and these examples just happened within the
last 6 months just imagine how much more money is wasted every day!! The
buffett tax plan, what a joke you on the left keep backing the Dem's with
raising the rich(whatever that means)taxes up to 30%, how about dropping
everyone else down to the 15% level!

WAKE UP EVERYONE!!!!!!!!!! We do NOT have a
taxing problem they have a SPENDING
problem!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@Al-524682

That's a wonderful idea. Let's see how many of the Hollywood crowd will support this! My guess is it is easier to be a limousine liberal than to actually pony up the cash.

The '$16 billion gap' is partly caused by Bush's tax cut for the rich - welfare for the rich - including 'corporate welfare.'

What the federal tax system does has no bearing on Califonia.

Why the tax rate is lower on stock dividend 15% compared to those businesses that invest in manufactuering and hiring workers (36%)?

This year we made 91K and paid 6.13% in Federal taxes and 4% in state taxes we could have paid 5.7% in federal taxes. Are you saying my taxes should be raised? how about the 66 million that make 50K and below ? 63 million of them pay 0% to the federal Government and 20% of them get more back than what they paid in the tax return.

The state has been having money problems since Gray Davis when he was Governor all but 3 school districts were far in the red and the State borrowed money to pay for its self for the first 4-5 month of the year. The town I grew up it 40% was on welfare.

I'm sure the Holltwood crowd will support this 30% tax increase for themselves. And I'm sure that a 30% tax increase will give the wealthy and businesses an incentive to move there. It did when IL. raised taxes a lot. Oh wait, IL's debt actually went UP after the big tax increase and businesses left. Oops :-(

How much are you willing to spend to educate something that is not willing to be educated?

@BigATC

Good comment. I am baffled that people do not understand simple economics. Oh well, let California tax lucrative corporations right out of the state. The exodus began a while back. I remember when I lived there that Arizona, Colorado, and a couple of other states ran TV commercials targeting businesses in California to move to their state. That is an embarrassment for California, but until the state government and the citizens open their eyes to what has happened nothing will change, and will indeed get worse.

Meanwhile, our federal government has no problem giving Israel, a country that is doing fine economically, 3.5 billion in aid each and every year, which amounts to over $500.00 for each man woman and child. It must be noted that Israel gives the US nothing, except more enemies.

It wont affect the poor, the Rich can shrug it off but who does it kill? The very same people inflation is hurting now..Will there ever be a day when something benefits the middle class.

Why not play the blame game longer and continue as is? So the fault lies with the rich and you want to punish the rich and make them pay. So what does the governor do? Raise the sales tax for one thing. Who does that impact most? The ones least able to afford it! Seems it would be better to increase spending. Isn't that the best way to reduce debt? It's Washington's way so it must be the right way to go.

No one chooses to see that taxes have not been raised in the State of California since? When I was a Baccalaureate Nursing Student in 1989, G.H.W. Bush made Scholarships Federally Taxable. Earning less than $7,000/year at that time, paying my own tuition, room and board in the community, Gov. Pete Wilson also made Scholarships and Grants State Taxable. He survived a recall effort begun in the Northern portion of the State. This was to make up for Prop. 13 shortfalls come into balance and discourage anyone from seeking higher education earning it upon their own merits and hard work. Arnold Schwarznegger's Administration created the pension fraud that is in existence today. My own Board of Registered Nursing used to contract with consultants that verified & monitored licensure. Those contracted positions became full time pensioned, full benefitted positions. So did many other State Agencies. Who saw the cuts? The Caltrans workers, the teachers, County Public Health Agencies, Public Safety all cut to the bone. Who benefits the most...those who do have a State or Federal Tax burden of less than 10% while those of us who work for the Corporate Good have witnessed our payroll taxes skyrocket to 38% in non-deductible tax witholdings. Pension? ELiminated by Wall Street managed 401K's. Talk about cutting Medicaid and Medicare? Start with the top where its too fat. California has not successfully transitioned from an agricultural economic base to a solely consumer based economy. The dot com bust layed off computer engineers in the late 1990's in Silicon Valley eliminating jobs in the information industry. There are more four to eight million dollar properties than there are single family homes in Northen Califronia. How do you expect to pay for road and highway management if your tax burden declines and the middle class is almost extinct? California is a reflection of what is happening to the rest of the Country...the systematic erosion of Public Good and Interest for the benefit of those who do not want to pay any taxes. Are you ready to give up driving for crumbling highways? Are you willing to give up Medicaid and Medicare should you become disabled through no fault of your own? Why not? Keep everything, deconstruct what you might beneit from should catastrophe strike, watch Fire, Police and Emergency Rooms begin to close their doors. They already are in some portions of the State. Some Emergency Rooms are set up like Hotel Reservation Desks. If you do not have Health Insurance, you might not receive the care that you need. The California Highway Patrol no longer patrols the Interstate Highways. Everyone drives at reckless speed over 80mph and CHP responds only after a fatal crash has occurred. Who cares? Taxation with purchased representation by Corporations and Big Business does not benefit everyone. Those of you who squeal about paying more taxes are not looking at what happens to consumer based Economies. They cease to exist. If you do not wish to pay taxes to help control serious Public Health Disease Outbreaks, if you do not live in Fire Prone environments, if you do not want to pay for healthy drinking water, sewgae waste treatment and Law enforcement, go live somewhere else. The U.S. is already functioning like a third world country and that is not Pres. Obama's fault. The greatest Hollywood product, Ronald Reagan began the erosion of the State of California when he was Governor and finished the job as President. I did not elect him. Keep up the divisiveness and you all will just cut your nose to spite your face.

Pigotry

12 years of tax cut for the rich - 'welfare for the rich' - is enough -

those who benefit more from the system should contribute more to the system.

I understand your anger and you are right, but for one thing......you need to get mad at the system, not those that use it legally. Focus your anger, help change the system - it's a start.

Sally

Above all else, respect others. Address issues and arguments and refrain from making personal attacks.

Thanks for trying to control all these unnecessary written assaults that go on - but it shows just how angry people really are. I suspect they are more angry out of frustration at issues they feel they have no control over and not at the people they are assaulting....I would actually call what they do as venting. Good for the person venting, but not so good for the recipient.

Ralph,

This is not a federal problem. It is strictly a State of California problem, so I am not sure what your point is here. Are you saying that the federal government should be providing what amounts to foreign aid to a state? You do realize that Califonia already receives federal money for a variety of programs, right?

California is a classic case of a dysfunctional State. It's dominated by the Democratic Party, which is in bed with public employee unions that demand outrageous wages and benefits from the politicians that they help elect - any Democratic politician that dares to not 'toe the line' gets kicked out of office. The California legislature is also dominated by Hispanics who make sure that tens of $Billions are made available to illegal immigrants. The State has an unfunded liability of about $500 Billion for union benefits which the taxpayers will have to pay - and guess what - the unions even got them to pass a law that says the union benefits have top priority with State revenues - even before schools and salaries for teachers, police and firemen.

And guess who was responsible for giving the state employee unions such power - Jerry Brown, in his previous stint as the 'moonbeam' Governor back in the 1970s.

I have noticed that more Liberal states like California have major $$$$$$$$$$$ problems. Thank God my state is not in poor shape. Maybe California needs to stop given free handouts and fringe benefits to all those illegals that are draining the system on tax payers dime. Cut off all those welfare programs to those who dont pay ZERO taxes. To California Oh well TO BAD !!! I sure dont feel sorry for you Liberal idiots. Just look at Chicago and Michigan who also are Liberal and having problems.

I will never understand why nearly half of Americans don't pay any federal taxes. & THEY'RE the ones (usually) demanding the rich pay MORE. I'm flat broke. I have $0.65 in my bank account right now. I make $24,000 a year, and am 21. When I did my taxes this year I was HAPPY I owed $34! It wasn't too much to worry me, or upset my budget. I'm proud I actually PAY taxes, and contribute to my country.

My brother turns 29 this year. & He hasn't paid taxes in years. In fact, they get way more than they put in (his daughter is 4). He doesn't work, his wife works 20 or so hours a week at GameStop. They'd rather play video games all day than get their sh!t together. It's disgusting & embarrassing and makes me wonder just how many other people just like that are we paying for?

So- lets tax the 'rich' more, right? The doctors who spend countless hours helping patients, have to go to school for 12 years & rack up all that debt, give up family time to go do rounds at multiple hospitals. The small businessman who built his company by the sweat of his own brow to make the money he is today. Why? So we can hand it over to my brother? WELFARE NEEDS TO BE REFORMED. Cell phones, cars, gym memberships, even pets, are not basic human rights. If you need welfare, you shouldn't have any of those. They are luxuries. If you're on welfare, and you have an iphone, you deserve to get kicked in the face repeatedly.

Notice that Gov. Brown stopped at earners of the $500,000 level? There are a lot of millionaires in California. Anyone with a tax liability of $600 million already has more than enough to live on. Anyone with just one million dollars has more than enough to live on for an entire lifetime. But I have never made more than $70k, and now make a fraction of that due to no fault of my own. So what would I know what to do with one million dollars?

Actually Mr. Zimmerman, in some states the Bush Tax Code changes did change the state taxes. There are states which base their taxable income on the Federal Tax Code or Federal Adjusted Gross Income. You might want to at least get your facts straight. And why do lots of people not pay federal taxes? Check the GOP prior actions. They have always been BIG on tax credits. And please, differentiate between Federal Taxes and Federal Payroll Taxes. Many people pay more in FICA and Medicare than they do in Federal Taxes. The GOP has always been "tax credit" happy.

This is what it has come to. How long can California afford to pay people not to work? (pensions)

As long as Dummycrats continue to make villans out of success. Their revenue will continue to decay. Just as NY City imposed a millionaire tax a few years ago. Then lost tax revenue because a third of the targeted group left the city. Another example is North Carolina, residents were asked to conserve water during a prolonged drought. A long enough drought that residents got used to water restrictions without formal restrictions in place. Care to guess what happened next? You guessed it, city officials lost enough revenue to have to raise water taxes.

When will they learn Class warfare does not work.

Pigotry, THe Bush tax cuts gave a higher % cut to lower brackets, so they also got 12 years of tax cuts. I think many folks will be horrified when the Bush tax cuts come off and they realize that its not true that all the tax cuts went to rich.

Cut bloated pensions.

Pigotry "The '$16 billion gap' is partly caused by Bush's tax cut for the rich - welfare for the rich - including 'corporate welfare.' "

I love it when people say "The Bush tax cuts caused a huge drop in government revenues, and that's why we have such a big debt problem".

Let's look at the FACTS;

For the 5 years before the Bush tax cuts became effective (1998-2002), total Federal revenues were $9.419 Trillion.

For the 5 years after the Bush tax cuts (2004 – 2008), total Federal revenues were $11.533 Trillion, an increase of 22.4%.

So instead of reducing Federal revenues, they actually increased them by over $2.1 Trillion AFTER the Bush tax cuts, and despite claims that the 'rich' got more benefits from the cuts than others, they are actually paying a higher portion of the total personal income taxes after the cuts than before the cuts.

I guess this is what you might call "An Inconvenient Truth".

I don't get it. California produces a lot of oil, is the source for most of our fruits & veggies, is home to many high-tech companies, is where almost all major movies are produced (porn included), and has a lot of tourism from Disney Land and other attractions...

Yet they always have financial problems, and now they want to save a few pennies by screwing over the working class? What's going on? This state is so corrupt and f'ed up, I'm surprised people still want to live there.

If they don't do a major reset, they'll soon be under a feudal system if California keeps on letting the 'big people' have their way.

California is the leading edge Democrat example... As California goes, so does the nation if the Democrat's ideals continue to promise everyone something for free just to get their vote... As CA comes to grips with the simple fact you can't pay out more than you take in, maybe the nation will wake up to the Obama snake oil saleman.

Kevin Bitz " And please, differentiate between Federal Taxes and Federal Payroll Taxes. Many people pay more in FICA and Medicare than they do in Federal Taxes"

That's a lame comparison, because FICA and Medicare taxes go directly into each worker's 'Trust Account' to provide for their future retirement and health care expenses.

When they pay no federal income taxes, they get a benefit of about $12,000 per person in federal expenditures ($3.7 Trillion in spending for 310 million people). A family of four that pays no federal income taxes gets almost $50,000 per year in federal 'benefits', for which they contribute nothing.

It's the middle class and 'rich' that have to pay for all of those benefits for the 50% of people that pay nothing in federal INCOME taxes.

less2bits:

Actually, it's for doing accounting, secretarial work, purchasing, and being the only one on a certain division at my company. My company, by the way, makes safety relief valves, which prevent oil rigs and natural gas lines from blowing up when the pressure gets too high.

So, no, it's not on my back. :) I work for my money, and don't let anyone pay my way in this world.

In case you're wondering, I had a 4.22 GPA on a 4.0 scale when I graduated from highschool, and I graduated EARLY. I'm not some dumb b!tch. Clearly I offended you when I spoke of people who expect handouts from the government, and expect everyone else to pay their way because they're too damn lazy to do it themselves.

less2bits:

Wow. After reading through the kind of dribble that you've posted on other articles, I must say that you are nothing more than a terrible person. With gems like "The real injustice is that there are too many black kids in this country" and "We don't want jews running free like parasitic dogs in this world" (BTW what is a parasitic dog?). Those could only be the words of a sexist, racist pig. Sometimes I hate the internet, because it reminds me that people like you exist.

Folks..this is what debt and credit does...it runs up bills people cannot pay off.

Remember the last 25+ years have been based on easy money...which in turn has caused higher inflation on homes, education and even job salaries.

Many people are overpaid and believe they are worth more then they really are due to easy money that was being blown around the last 25+ years. People continually got raises and other things that most likely should have never been given consistently.

We've created a housing mess with over-priced homes. We've created a education/loan mess with over-priced educations. We've created a State/Federal jobs situation with over-priced positions and salaries.

Salaries in many fields are going to go down..especially State and Federal employees.

So- lets tax the 'rich' more, right? The doctors who spend countless hours helping patients, have to go to school for 12 years & rack up all that debt, give up family time to go do rounds at multiple hospitals. The small businessman who built his company by the sweat of his own brow to make the money he is today. Why? So we can hand it over to my brother? WELFARE NEEDS TO BE REFORMED. Cell phones, cars, gym memberships, even pets, are not basic human rights. If you need welfare, you shouldn't have any of those. They are luxuries. If you're on welfare, and you have an iphone, you deserve to get kicked in the face repeatedly.

Haha...couldn't agree more Jessicale.

I see so many people on 'welfare' that are running around in black SUVs with cell phones, laptops, etc. Our whole WELFARE system is a joke.

NEVER vote for the requested increase in taxes, as the Democratic California leadership (including the Governor demanding public approval of the tax increase) has pledged rewards (to the tune of billions of dollars) to the immigration lawbreakers! If California voters approve additional taxpayer revenues, they will surely just be approving MORE and MORE of taxpayer resources being diverted to ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONALS who should be deported but are reaping BILLIONS OF AMERICAN TAXPAYER DOLLARS and other resources. Disgusting! Say Hell NO to the Tax Increase!!!

Mike...Solyndra lost its solvency because a CHINESE SOLAR PANEL MANUFACTURER UNDERBID THEM ON THEIR LARGEST CONTRACT! THAT IS A FACT THAT THE MEDIA AT LARGE DID NOT ACCURATELY REPORT! Gov. Brown has introduced Legislation that would cease any substandard product produced by China from being manufactured, sold and contracted in the State of California. How many other Governors are attempting to assist innovative businesses in their Staes? None that I can see.

Califoronia is not a welfare State. There are more International Billionaires living in this State than there has been. Corporate Welfare maybe. Gov. Brown is not "TAXING AND SPENDING" as ususal. The two prior Governors and their Administrations added more weight to pensioned executives and cut direct service jobs like Highway Maintenance, Public Safety, Public Schools Teachers etc. while their Adminstrations became top heavy with pensioned executives. When there is a sole consumer based economy it is destined for economic failure.

California experienced a ten year drought which helped to create catastrophic wildfires that some communities are still recovering from 2000 to 2010. The response? A moritorium on homeowners' insurance in fire areas NOT traditionally known as annually fire prone. Ever lose your home to a wildfire and everything that belongs to you? It is devastating. Unable to return to your home for weeks because there is no power only to find ash and cinder damage when you return. Cars burned to the ground. The air qualiy so bad you can only spend minutes per day combing through what might be left if looters didn't go through what's left of your belongings. This is what it has been like to live in most of Northern and Southern Califronia for the past ten years. Are you aware that most of the fire victims were under or uninsured? Know how many families NEEDED Public Assistance for food, shelter and unemployment when SUI was exhausted? Many Fire Fighters, Police Officers & Sheriff Deputies were permanently disabled with life altering burns. That will drain a pension fund as well.

Many of you think that California has no relationship to the Federal Government? Look again. When Candidates and Laws are bought and purchased by Corporations, Non-Profit Influence Organizations (Citizens United, American Crossroads, et. al.) that benefit those who do not wish to pay taxes and push their agendas on individual rights, the individual will suffer. This is what Conservatism has done to California: depleted its resources for the benefit of the few including Willard "Mitt" Romney who owns a Mansion in La Jolla and probably pays no State or City taxes to maintain his lifestyle and basic needs since the Luxury Tax no longer exists and La Jolla happens to not be a primary residence but a vacation estate for him. His childrens' trust funds are tax sheltered. The only maintenance workers available to work for him ARE ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS from Mexico in La Jolla. San Diego has the largest amount of Mexican Workers in every service area because no one wants to work or is too wealthy to perform those menial tasks that once seved as summer jobs or entry level work positions for many skilled workers.

Democrats are more Politically Conservative than those who used to be GOP Traditional Conservatives...which meant preserving the Constitution as written. Democrats projected into the future and there was a coming together to balance the decision making process. Now Conservatism has taken on a religious meaning where in no area of the Constitution does it state that this is a Theocracy with a specific religious affiliation. It is just a distractor from the true issues affecting every common individuals lifestyle and ability to maintain that lifestyle. As American Citizens we are faced with losing our individual rights at the State as well as Federal Level. There are no "LIBERALS" anymore, just representatives who are coming to the surface to preserve what we have left against the Corporate Machine and Facists like Grover Norquist.

Sometimes I hate the internet, because it reminds me that people like you exist.

Yes, but once in a while you run into a kickass, self-reliant, trollbuster such as yourself. Nicely done Jessica.

Mike...Solyndra lost its solvency because a CHINESE SOLAR PANEL MANUFACTURER UNDERBID THEM ON THEIR LARGEST CONTRACT! THAT IS A FACT THAT THE MEDIA AT LARGE DID NOT ACCURATELY REPORT!

So their whole business model fell apart on one contract...

Most private sector individuals would tell you that's not a good business model if your business is based around one contract.

naughtynumbernine:

Oh my goodness. I really can't thank you enough for saying that. You calmed me right down! :)

Oh my goodness. I really can't thank you enough for saying that. You calmed me right down! :)

Breathe in...breathe out...repeat.

;)

AngelicaS "NEVER vote for the requested increase in taxes, as the Democratic California leadership (including the Governor demanding public approval of the tax increase) has pledged rewards (to the tune of billions of dollars) to the immigration lawbreakers!"

A perfect example of the nonsense that goes on in California is the recently signed 'California Dream Act', wherein Governor Brown approved of spending upwards of $40 Million for taxpayer funded college breaks for illegal immigrants, and then he turns around and says "If you don't give me tax increases, I'll have to lay off teachers, police and firemen".


I guess he thinks that California voters can't put two and two together - Come to think of it, since our schools turn out kids that can't read or write, perhaps he's right.

My husband and I are both retired CA state employees. We took our pension, the money we got from selling our home at an obscene inflated price and moved. We now live in PA (15 years) paid cash for a beautiful home with money left over in the bank, pay $36 for auto tags every year instead of $400+ in CA.

My husband and I are both retired CA state employees. We took our pension, the money we got from selling our home at an obscene inflated price and moved. We now live in PA (15 years) paid cash for a beautiful home with money left over in the bank, pay $36 for auto tags every year instead of $400+ in CA.

Smart choice. Many people refuse to do such and live in the same area and blow through their savings.

Jessicalc

You're an example of what is right and good about America. Too bad there are not more like you.

Keep up your no-nonsense posts.

I see so many people on 'welfare' that are running around in black SUVs with cell phones, laptops, etc. Our whole WELFARE system is a joke.

You're absolutely right, James. That is the number one thing (in my opinion) that is dragging our country down. I'm still waiting for a president (or candidate) to step up and finally address it. I don't care what party they're in, what sex or race they are, if they will do something about welfare, they have my vote.

Second is the illegals. :/ I live in Texas and it's a huge problem. Granted, some are actively trying to get citizenship. Growing up, my Dad's friend Dario tried for YEARS to get his. The day he did he threw a big party and cried, saying it was the happiest day of his life. :) There needs to be some sort of reform for citizenship as well. Let the ones who are trying to get it stay for a while to give them the chance, but throw out the ones who don't care about our country and never plan to become a tax-paying citizen.

naughtynumbernine, james, and roy:

Thanks for your support. :) You guys are awesome.

I love politics, and don't get offended easily. But sometimes being on here is too much, and is very discouraging...leaving me without hope for the country and the future. So thanks for your support, it means a lot to me.

BBYANKO " Maybe California needs to stop given free handouts and fringe benefits to all those illegals that are draining the system on tax payers dime."

If you want to see something that will 'make your blood boil', consider these links to see how they are 'gaming the system' to the tune of perhaps $Billions;

http://www.wthr.com/video?clipId=7054149&topVideoCatNo=103348&autoStart=true

http://www.wthr.com/story/17861738/will-lawmakers-act-to-close-tax-loophole-for-illegal-immigrants

http://tekgnosis.typepad.com/tekgnosis/2012/05/channel-13-wthr-indianapolis-investigates-irs-tax-loophole-billions-of-dollars-in-tax-credits-for-un.html

12 years of tax cut for the rich - 'welfare for the rich' - is enough -

You should check the IRS Stats on that - The Rich pay a FAR greater percentage of their income than you ever will, and by and large, the top 10% of wage earners pay nearly 70% of the taxes collected. So I really can't imagine what you're talking about. Might want to do some due diligence on that.

And while you're at it, are you saying that the state of California couldn't find 16 billion worth of frivolous spending that they couldn't cut back on .. just a little bit?? Perhaps half?? I bet they could!

You see, it's amazing what you and I can find to cut out of our own personal budgets when we don't have the luxury of going to someone else, with gun in hand, to 'plead our case'.

Jessica - nicely said.. all the way around. (And to you as well, Roy)

(Nearly 28 years ago I went to work for a self-made multi-millionaire in Atlanta, GA. What a great guy.. Had it all and was very easy to talk to .. loved sharing with youngsters what it took to make it.. and how to go about making your life work for you, even in the face of some pretty great odds and some well-verbalized excuses - I should also mention that he was a quadriplegic, paralyzed from the neck down, who made his fortune AFTER his paralysis.

He used to tell me that the greatest gift he could give to society was to not be a burden to them :)

How ridiculous are some government giveaways to businesses: two atrocious examples may suffice:

1. Why does big oil still get such obscene amount of subsidies, when having pocketed vast obscene profits - look at the gas prices?

There are many other obscene tax breaks that are totally unjustifiable - - thus contributing to vast federal and state fiscal deficits.

2. Why has Wall Street claimed paying prostitutes as business expenses and get tax breaks and reimbursements?

These 'successful people' need to pay some back so rank and file can at least get a decent meal, not to say prostitutes.

Excellent Jessicalc 8) Epic Win

You guys are awesome.

Likewise. FR sent.

Once they figure out the deficit amount equals the cost of supporting illegal immigrants, the problem can be solved

Well jessicalc, have you been listening, he has been telling you again and again. Ron Paul 2012.

The future of America under Obama is alive and well in California, Greece, Spain and France. Dems attempting to split the electorite by faking the "Ron Paul" endorsements only show their frantic attempts to keep their free handouts at the expense of responsible/working ADULTS!

California, the future of America under Epic Fail Obama and the Liberal give-away mentality!!

Kevin - you need to study taxes more. Adjusted Gross income is line 31 & 32 (typically) Personal and child deductions don't come out until AFTER The adjusted Gross income is figured and is known as "Taxable Income".

California, along with 28 other states and Washington DC, start with the AGI. Some of them back out some of the federal adjustments to income.

6 states use the Federal "Taxable Income".

The remaining 16 use "Gross Income" or have no income tax like Florida and Texas

Pigotry "Why does big oil still get such obscene amount of subsidies, when having pocketed vast obscene profits - look at the gas prices?"

Perhaps you should consider checking the actual facts instead of listening to Obama's rhetoric. Here's a link to an article by MSN Money (yes, that left-wing site) that shows that the top 3 oil companies had an average profit margin of only 8.1% of sales, and paid an amazing 43% in taxes on their income (compared with the top corporate rate of about 35%) - So where are the so-called 'subsidies'? Their average after-tax income was $27 Billion on $330 Billion in sales, for a profit margin of only 8.1%.

Then compare that with Obama's buddy at Microsoft/Gates, who only paid a tax rate of 15.9% and had an after-tax income of $24 Billion on only $72 Billion of sales, for a profit margin of about 33% - 4 times as high as the oil companies.

So who's REALLY not paying 'their fair share'?

Here's the link;

http://money.msn.com/investment-advice/the-12-highest-corporate-tax-bills

I just got done coming back from a service call to repair a 'Juke Box' at the FBI building. Interesting.

The entire building was built on overwhelming amounts of money with as much security as I would expect at the White House. But a JUKE BOX?!?

I wonder how many other ways my taxes are being wasted.

California pays more to the Federal government than they get back, so they're not a welfare state. All the red-state types who jump all over news stories like this should remember that. The posters who complain about taxes seem to be predominantly from red states and apparently don't think public education, infrastructure, etc., are all that important and the fact is that the money invested in Callifornia's education system and infrastructure over the decades (when income taxes were higher, in the 1950s and 1960s) helped make Calif as successful as it has been. If some of these red states raised taxes and invested in themselves instead of depending on the blue states for handouts, maybe they could be doing better (red states are generally the welfare states).

I'm more than willing to pay a .25% higher sales tax rate if at the same time the taxes are raised to a reasonable extent on the wealthy. Gov. Brown is proposing more taxes and California isn't up in arms about it because we haven't signed some sort of silly, non-binding agreement with Grover Norquist. It's beyond belief that some states' futures and solvency are actually being decided by that slimy little jerk and it's beyond belief that the red states, who think they have all the answers, are going along with that.

As for the wealthy being taxed less so the middle class can pay more, remember that many of the wealthy inherited their money and wealth doesn't always equate with hard work. As for the commenter who questioned why he and his wife should move to a state with higher income taxes when his wife completes her residency -- remember that the high cost of health care is one of the factors in states' financial problems. Would his wife, who presumably is a M.D., rather see people out on the streets and dying from lack of health care, than have her taxes raised?

Let me ask you a question?

Who suffers the most, the one who is taxed as the source of the hand outs or the one who receives them?

How about if I ask it this way?

Who does the poor the greater amount of harm, the conservatives or the liberals?

Any sociologists or psychologistson newsvine tonight? How about humanitarians. How about zoologists.

@XDm9mm

The "system" is broken and waaay beyond repair.

If at first we practice to deceive, what a tangled web we weave, and that is where America is at!

I recall a news story about Apple, maintaining a small office in Nevada, to avoid paying a lot of taxes in California. As long as there is all of these loop holes in the federal and state tax codes, there will people and companies taking advantage of them, and avoid paying their fair share.

IWonder-

Yes, I did like Ron Paul (he also lives about thirty miles from me). He had many great ideas (federal decriminalization of drugs, because NO state will legalize cocaine, meth, or hard drugs, so the only drug up for debate really is marijuana. But people seem to forget that states will still decide what will be legal and not. This would cause billions of dollars in tax revenue), but some went too far.

I align myself with the libertarian party. Live and let live. If what you're doing does not affect my rights, or anyone's rights, then why should I stop you? The government is TOO BIG. Schools are now telling parents that a turkey sandwich, apple juice, a piece of fruit and some chips is a bad lunch (which the mother proved it wasn't, it met all standards). They keep pushing further and further into our lives.

ROY-

I love it when people cite sources! :) Good for you. People say whatever they want, and never have proof to back it up. Also, people, look to see how much tax you pay on a gallon of gas. In Texas, it's $0.20/gallon. & Our gas prices are substantially lower than a lot of states. California charges 35.3 cents a gallon, and are the number 2 highest gas taxer (behind Washington state). The article was written August 2010, though. economy(dot)ocregister(dot)com/2010/08/11/california-no-2-in-u-s-in-gas-tax/38479/

Here's a link to the breakdown of your gasoline prices:

factcheck(dot)org/2008/04/gasoline-tax-profits/

Perhaps California should consider building a fence around their State to keep the money from leaving. I would suggest stopping all mail and bank transfers from leaving the State as well so the illegals can't send their money south of the border and the rich can't invest overseas. Just turn California into a huge prison so they won't have to cut spending! <sarc>

California is a poster child for the progressive liberal agenda.

Jessicalc,

Wow! A smart, strong minded, self reliant woman unafraid to speak her mind. No doubt you will be successful. Wish I were many years younger. You are a breath of fresh air on the net.

If you slapped a liberal in the face, he would immediately protest all people with hands and call for government regulation of hands. He would try to determine if you made more money than he did and consider the class difference as for the reason for this face slapping. He would affirm that lower income people should be able to slap others at any time they wish, but higher income people should be severely regulated because it is unfair that they are both RICH and get to SLAP people. Is it really the person slapping or just the corporations using the cronies to rough up the little guy? If the "slappee" was, God Forbid, any thing other then a snow white male, The ACLU and Rev Al Sharpton would show up to talk about how racist the whole event was and call on the oppressed and frequently slapped to RISE UP and condemn this atrocity. Regardless of the sex or ethnicity of the "slapper" it is the white man's fault. The New sub-committee appointed to regulate would employ approximately 20 people but cost the tax payers 15 million annually. Meanwhile, The occurrences of minority on White Slappings happening throughout the nation goes unreported by the media. Oh, and Obama would call a press conference to announce that Bush "W" slapped him like that once and that, that incident began the whole rolling ball of events that lead to this traumatic event.

Martian... Brilliant!

Wow! He's going to cut back on welfare, medicare, and the prisons.

So he's going to put people on the streets, starve the kids, and release criminals that are costing the State of CA too much.

Is he also going to include cutting out welfare programs for the rich, and end all their tax breaks as well.

I didn't hear Gov Brown sing any of those words in his pathetic speech.

It's always the the indigent and low income people that are always supporting the State of CA, and this is how they repay them

Start ending all the tax breaks and tax cut programs for the rich should have been the first thing that rolled off this paid for politician courtesy of the rick.

This is absolutely disgusting. Is Gov Brown taking a pay cut as well?

I was thinking the same thing. Let's see how many flee Hollywood when they take everything they make.

I remember seeing a pie chart of what percentage of his paycheck an actor actually gets to take home. After federal and state taxes, and SAG dues, and agent commission, it was slightly less than half. Remember that next time you see what someone on the screen makes.

Film industry in Georgia has been very popular as of late...thanks to tax incentives. It's the beauty of having different states. Georgia can compete with California. We have beaches, mountains, lakes and nice people. Come visit.

Half of several million is still A LOT for an actor who is simply a pretty face, pretending to be someone they're not, reading a script written by someone smarter than them.

You expect Hollywood brats to pay more tax money and then fund your illegal mexican welfare/prison system?? Too funny & LOL.......it will never happen. Maybe you could sell the bottom half of "Cali" to Mexico to pay off the debt???

Seven2Seven, that sound like a great idea! Then all those illegals who run around California waving the Mexican flag will feel right at home.....because they will be home. Then they can jump on all those social programs Mexico provides! Oh wait, they don't have any.

Yeah and Texas has five distinct geographical regions. Lots to film here too.Beautiful Gulf beaches, Piney woods and hills, the plains and as long as you don't spend all your time telling us how you do it in LA nice people. Very little hispanic/ non hispanic conflict in the RGV we really don't care if your mom or grandparents can only speak spanish we got that covered in every state office. Our hispanics do prefer to be called tejanos instead of chicanos though.

Mr PheaNiques, HELLYWOOD !!!

You can eat the rich, only if your certain it's your last meal...

California governor: Raise taxes on rich to fill $16 billion gap

I live in a small town in Iowa, and moved here from CA. I as surprised to see numerous people moving here from CA. I guess I will see more coming this way soon.

CA has a bib problem knowing how to budget. If they just cut out all the problems for the illegals that arrive there, they would cut their budget by 16 bil. and more.

They are running up costs in the emergency rooms, the welfare offices, housing, food-stamps, and there are programs set up by the state that even pay their legal fees to help them become legal citizens.

Illegal women that come to the us that are pregnant or become pregnant get a free ticket to ride off the backs of the US taxpayers until the kid is an adult.

This is wrong, this in itself for me should be illegal for the State of CA to be supporting those that are not US citizens. The more your support them, the more they will keep coming to CA, TX, Arizona, and other states along the Mexican border, and then you have all the illegals in Florida, NY, and many other states that take care of the illegals as well.

Stop supporting the illegals with the taxpayers dollars and they will leave.

That should cause a short-term spike in business.... for moving companies. The rich are the ones that find it easiest to move away and have the most reasons to do so.

IT's very complicated. Easier to unravel a ball of knotted fishing line that to unwind all the crap that has caused all this. The same people in the middle class who thought it was a great idea to set up all the welfare programs and social guarantees are now getting the bill for all this in the form of medicare cuts, cuts in school budgets, jobs lost as companies flee the state. They vote for these programs or the people who install these programs. Only they don't see a connection between their constant cries for benefits and programs and the overall social decline. They get hung up in the knotted details and forget that taking the good economy for granted and just giving away benefit upon benefit is what is killing the economy. Churchill said: "Capitalism is the unequal sharing of the blessings. Socialism is the equal sharing of the miseries." We are supposed to learn from this that there will be no blessing to share under socialism. This socialistic society of ours will wipe out the blessings in an effort to make sure everyone gets an equal share. And by standards of fairness based on the idea that those who buit it it deserve first dibs on getting it, there are many people who do not deserve all the social gifts they've been receiving.

It's Hollywood, but let us not forget about Silicon Valley.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2012/05/facebooks-eduardo-saverin-joins-americans-renouncing-citizenship/

When people (or corporations, whatever) make money off Americans I see nothing wrong with asking them to pay taxes in America.

That should cause a short-term spike in business.... for moving companies. The rich are the ones that find it easiest to move away and have the most reasons to do so.

Moving is hell. The rich won't move themselves, they will pay someone to do it. That will cost about $16,000 plus insurance for a 2,000 sq ft+ home. Then you have to find a new house, which will cost a flight or two if you want to see it before you get to it. Then there's the actual cost of the house, closing costs, selling the current house, and so on. There's the cost and time of finding a new job. Plus there's things that are difficult to put value on, such as being close to family and friends, having good schools, and so on. The rich aren't rich because they blow their money moving every time there's a couple of % increase in their taxes.

But I'm not just talking either, it's been studied. Here's the link to a CBPP report on the same thing. http://www.cbpp.org/files/8-4-11sfp.pdf The short of it is that rich folks aren't going to move because of a marginal tax increase.

Arieus, you made me think of a Phil Collins song but I changed a few words, here goes: "It's Soooo FUN to be an Illegal AAAlllieannn"................that's what the Mexicali's are thinking right now.

Some folks don't understand why California has such a big deficit. It's called "Enron".

Enron ripped California off for Billions of Dollars, and because California is a "blue" state, then-president George "Curveball" Bush let Enron load California up with all this debt that we had to pay "to keep the lights on".

Jeff Skilling had a ball ripping us off, now he wants to get out of prison based on some kind of "I never promised that I wouldn't rip you off" law, which the Court of Appeal has already rejected.

Obama/Biden 2012

Tax the successful to make up for the spending habits of the junkies running the government...what a novel concept !!!

John-2006106

Half of several million is still A LOT for an actor who is simply a pretty face, pretending to be someone they're not, reading a script written by someone smarter than them.

True, but the same can be said for sports figures and CEOs. At least the actors are entertaining...most of the time.

@American Girl-724855

WOW you had to go way back to find someone else to blame other that the spend and TAX DEMS!!

Nice try, but people are seeing the truth and that is the DEMS will lead us to bankruptcy!

But what do you care it's NOT YOUR MONEY!

Georgia can compete with California. We have beaches, mountains, lakes and nice people. Come visit.

No offense, but Georgia does not have mountains, lakes, and beaches that rival those in California. That's not to say Georgie isn't a nice state, I'm sure it is...

Nice try, but people are seeing the truth and that is the DEMS will lead us to bankruptcy!

to be fair, the Democratic policy of "tax and spend" will take us to bankruptcy far slower than the Republican policy (circa 1980 to present) of "cut taxes and spend."

Not that they're both bankrupting us...

American Girl, you over simplify the problem. Enron was many years ago, and California's budget problems started long before that. The fact that they even passed a budget knowing that they had a deficit of at least 9 billion is ludicrous! I balance my checkbook BEFORE I make additional expenditures, California (and the US Gov) should have to do the same. If you don't have enough money left to pay for social programs, you either raise more money through taxes or you do away with some of the programs.

The problem about raising taxes to cover a "shortfall" is those new taxes are never lowered, and the Gov will not make the necessary cuts because they don't have to anymore.

At some point California will be too toxic for many businesses due to high tax rates, so those business will go to other states like Texas or even worse, overseas. When your businesses go away, the jobs go away and your social programs must support more people, which leads directly to budget shortfalls. Time to raise the taxes again and repeat the whole sequence.

The good news is that California is setting a shining example to the other 49 states on how not to do things!

ABBOB2012!<--- (Any Body But Obama/Biden 2012)

"take everything they make"? It's a percentage...they have a lot to spare, that's the point of taxing the wealthy, they have been living it up with loop holes and tax breaks for years. My question is, what about people who make over 500K? Shouldn't taxes on billionaires be increased? They can afford it.

Gee, Prag, maybe you need to go talk to the people that used to live in Maryland(?). I saw an article recently that described the DROP in income from the highest tax bracket when it was raised to "soak the rich."

You people must live in a fantasy land where the "rich" people are a never-ending, bottomless well, a veritable cornucopia of money that will never run dry to fund all the crazed programs that exist in SoCal.

We have a new neighbor that used to live in SoCal. He and his family could hardly wait for his transfer to come through so they could get out of the "land of milk and honey."

An old friend of ours was in charge of his employer's LA office for four years and he commuted every other weekend to be with his wife here because neither one of them could stand the thought of being forced to live in LA just for his job. He is now retired and living southern Missouri and just loving it.

Remember, tax-and-spend has never worked and never will. It only irritates people until they find somewhere else to live and work.

Emily- So what percentage do you propose is "Fair"? 3% this year, maybe 2% next year? You can only tax so much before "the rich" hide it or move. We all enjoy loop holes and tax breaks. If you take them from the rich you take them from everyone. See what your taxes are like when you no longer get a personal exemption, earned income credits, Bush tax break, charitable donations, etc.

Think about all the taxes you already pay. Sales tax, sin tax, hotel tax, vehicle registration fees, license fees, permit fees, application fees, toll roads, etc. Add that to your state and federal income tax. I think they get enough already. If you add it all up, probably 40-50% of what you make and spend is already being taxed.

You don't punish success in order to reward failure.

Come on lone, hush your mouth, what we don't need is a lot more ex-calis, they bring their failed beliefs with them. We have more than enough ex-yankees already doing that.

If you are moving to Texas, think about it, there is a reason and if it's so wonderful somewhere else, stay there. Don't come unless you intend to become one of us. We are not going to some other state trying to change them.

I remember seeing a pie chart of what percentage of his paycheck an actor actually gets to take home. After federal and state taxes, and SAG dues, and agent commission, it was slightly less than half.

that is because an actor gets paid as a wage or salary, unlike the richest who only pay around 15%

If you have a notion that people won't move out of a dump, take a gander at detroit for a view of the after part of a before and after. Like california, not only the rich left.

I can't believe this Democratic apparatchik with the sign-on American Girl is trying to blame California's poor planning and lack of immigration enforcement on George Bush. These people vote?

Here is part of California's problem right here:

California's prison population has exploded over the past two decades as voters and lawmakers approved numerous tough-on-crime measures, including life sentences for those convicted of a third felony and extended sentences for using a gun or belonging to a gang. In almost all cases, voters and lawmakers made the changes without a way to pay for the extra prison space or guards required to house the additional inmates, a scenario that left the state paying more for corrections while it cuts money for higher education, health care and other services.

California's adult prison population has grown from about 97,000 in 1990 to nearly 161,000 today, while the cost of incarceration during that timeframe has risen from $20,562 per inmate to $49,190.

The corrections department now draws $9.8 billion from the state's general fund, or 11.4 percent of this year's spending plan. That is more than the state spends on the University of California and California State University systems combined.

http://www.dailynews.com/politics/ci_19005315

Maybe it is time for California to cut prison sentences by half or more, and quit sentencing first-time violent offenders and juveniles to prison sentences of draconian length, which basically means that those offenders will become unproductive criminals for life??? Imagine how much tax revenue might be available to spend on other things if the vast majority of such offenders could be rehabilitated and could then become productive tax-paying citizens instead???

And large companies can also leave So Cal. Just like Boeing moved 2 programs from CA to OK. They can just as easily move the rest of it. How many other companies have also started leaving because of the tax rates. Who wants to work in a state that views them as just a source of money to hand over to people that do nothing but wait in line for their next handout?

Many of the professionals can make the same salary in any state they choose to live in. Every state has an able and willing workforce to provide manufacturing and service jobs. So CA go ahead and keep raising your rates and watch your unemployment rate keep climbing (you may have to see it in your labor participation rates).

California is entering very tough times and the illegals still want their Free California College Education Room, boarding, books, food allowance and all. Gov'na Jerry is a bit out of touch and very much out to lunch about what is going on here in the Gone State...Bye Bye....

Thank you Public Service Employee Unions and the Teacher Unions, you bought the lies your Union goons promised. You promise people ridiculous life long benefits this is what you get, a bankrupt state. Got news for all you Californians, your not getting bailed out, not even close.

Option one, legalize pot and tax it. Opton two bankrupt your pension plans and reorganize. Option three, get in the real world concerning your entitlements. How about all the above?

Old Timer

Maybe Cali should just reintroduce the death penalty and fry those useless multiple offender gang bangers.

Yeah I like my idea way better.

Everybody has a job, electricians to hook up the chair, morticians, grave diggers, and lastly the good legal working honest tax paying citizens of the left coast would be the laughing stock of these here United States.

I spent a couple of weeks in southern california, plenty of memories, none of them fond.

Say oldtimer, I can't speak for other states but the prison situation is awful in Texas also. We have far too many laws and people in jail, the worst in the world. Half the laws should be immediately erased, including all the dope laws.

Brown said he would increase taxes 3%. Actually its 3 points, which is a 30% tax increase. I'm sure that will have people eager to move to Cali.

Illinoins just tried this, a large tax increase, to pay down their massive debt. Result ..... the debt is now larger. Imagine that, businesses left. I am next door in Hoosier land and the media here has done a couple of pieces on businesses relocating here because of the unfriendly business environment in IL. It is already happening in Cali and will get worse if this passes.

American Girl: Lordy I get tired of these sarcastic 'think I am so cleaver nitwits' with their 'sparkling comments' based on nothing that resembles facts who get on these sites. I can make this observation that you are a nitwit simply based on your choice for president in the next election. How about the fact the Obama is a Communist and hates America and what is stands for and hung around with radicals in his rise to power, was a community organizer, a race baiter and instigator. Still is. This country has never been more divided. He said he was going to spread the wealth, just like Castro did before he took over and look how well that turned out for the Cuban people.

But anyway lets get back to the article. Brown created this mess with the unions the first time he was in office and the dumb Californians re-elected him yet again to finish the job. I personally pay taxes for public safety and infrastructure, not unsustainable pensions and benefits for unionized public sector employess. I am tired of him holding that threat over our heads to get his tax increases past. I also don't pay taxes to support all the illegal aliens that continue to poor into this state and drain the coffers. I think that our bought off elected officials should take a cut in pay, since they created the problem in the first place here in California, and then fire their aides so they only have one and do what we pay them to do: work to promote the interests of the taxpaying, legal Californian. Anything less is unacceptable.

american girl,

The adults are talking now, please go back to econ 101 class and see if you can't learn something. When you spend more than you take in these are called "deficits". California has a huge entitlement system which costs a lot of money. California has one of the largest economies in the world (yes, world), yet it still can't pay for everything Governor Moonbeam and his Merrymen have promised for the last, oh, thirty or forty years, for example sweetheart union pensions, also known as "the gift that keeps on giving". That's why there is a "deficit". Follow along now.

You can throw out that red herring with "Enron", "Bush", 'Bluestate", "cronies", being responsible. But we know differently don't we? Come on, you can admit it! It's fun to blame others for your errors, but it all comes down to the math, and California has believed that 2 + 2= 6 for some time now.

Governments ALWAYS function on Budgetary Projections. Government cannot be managed like a household budget. That's what the real job of Representatives in the State Legislature, House of Representatives and Senate are PAID to do...look at where revenues originate and propose a PROJECTED BUDGET based upon needs from prior trends. Out of control spending? Look at how many staffers it takes to work for one Legislator at the State and Federal Levels. Unions are almost nonexistent in California. You think it is all Liberals? There are more young families relocating here from Arizona, Texas, Louisiana and Missouri. At least Califronia does not interfere with a woman's access to preventive health measures and your bedroom. The role of "less Government" is to keep it out of the private sector making decisions that need to be left between private sources. We don't argue about "personhood" or when life begins. We have Hospice and Pallliative Care choices for those facing life altering health decisions. Gov. Brown's fault? I think not. Government does not function when it makes paternalistic decisions for individuals...that is Facism. That is what has been systematically occurring because many of you buy into the partisan political emotive discussions that remove you from the real issues facing our crumbling Democracy. How many of you educate yourselves before casting a vote on any issue or candidate? How many of you take an active role in your Government by writing to your representatives and meeting with like minded people? If you did, we wouldn't be fighting for the freedoms we about to passively give away. People like Karl Rove, Newt Gingrich and Willard Romney would not be able to buy their respective positions. How is it that Newt Gingrich was allowed to conduct a meeting with House Republicans the night of President Obama's Inauguration to construct an action plan of Obstructionism against the President, a documented Moderate? Edmund G. Brown, Jr. is a FISCAL CONSERVATIVE and ALWAYS HAS BEEN. Do your homework before you point your reactionary fingers. Look at the common sensibility of Economic Conservatism. What he proposes makes sense. You think Meg Whitman would have done better? She would be doing what every other GOP Governor is doing right now: deconstructing their States with omnipotent intent in favor of creating a United States that serves only the very top income elite in the World. Well, the elite get sick too. The elite need to flush a toilet. Who will maintain their lifestyles? The elite need to get immunized from communicable disease. The elite cannot buy everything in the world with an unlimited anount of capital. How did Rome Fall? How is Greece doing now?

"that is because an actor gets paid as a wage or salary, unlike the richest who only pay around 15%"

Where do you get this crap from?? A CEO making 20 million is no different than an actor making the same for a movie. How much money do you think the richest make? A person worth a billlion is not taxed on a billion, only what they earn or from investment income for the year. The rest has already been taxed!

Rich people whining. What a surprise. It was the suits that caused this problem, it was the moneyed class who caused the newest Depression with their unmitigated greed. So now it's time for you to step up and start contributing and what happens. You start snivelling and whining. What do you want the Government to do, take more from the middle class? Sorry but because of your greed we are tapped out. When you lost money on your investments you started laying us off, told us because of the economy we couldn't have raises. Your turn to help, get over it. Personally I think you're still getting off pretty easy.

I smell overtime.

American Girl

Enron cost California billions.

California put itself in a position to be taken by not allowing the energy exploration, developement, and shutting down power plants without permitting new to be built. That left Enron to be the answer to pull resources from other states and countries.

"We're on the express elevator to hell.. going down!"

Can't wait to see the bottom of this hole.

tom343 -- The Enron mess happened soon after GWB was elected, knowing they'd get a pass from a fellow Texas oil buddy. It didn't happen under Clinton's watch. The Enron crimes happened interstate, meaning it's Federal jurisdiction.

DB Akron -- What Enron did was conspire to manipulate the energy market for their own profit and the detriment of California, period. There was plenty of evidence and tapes to prove it and it was quite a big news story at the time. There really isn't any doubt.

CA is an overtaxed state. This is a HUGE problem here. You are taxed on the money you make, only to be taxed again when you spend it. On your income taxes, you are again, taxed on the money you made last year. The State took out an "temporary” additional 5% against our State taxes on our wages. That was to be paid back at the end of the year. It never happened. That, too, was only temporary. HOW does the government, legally, take out a loan on our wages without our consent? They added an additional tax to us way back when to help when Oakland had that massive fire. That, too, was temporary. CA has a long reach. While vacationing in Nevada, we went into a sporting good store there. We were asked for our zip code while checking out. Guess what? CA tax due! They stated that CA is there at the end of every week to pick up their money. One is penalized for living in CA. Shopping online - pay CA taxes on that; too, no matter if the store is on the East Coast.

Here is the truth on the higher tax prop for November: Prop. 29 explicitly circumvents standard salary practices, meaning the staff and CEO can award themselves ridiculously high salaries with money taxpayers have been told would be dedicated for cancer research.

What’s worse, unlike previous measures, Prop. 29 don’t require that California tax dollars stay in California and create California jobs. I mean, if you’re going to raise taxes by nearly a billion dollars and conduct cancer research with some of the funds, shouldn’t that research at least be done in California? Prop. 29 allow the funds to be spent outside of California. Maybe that’s why so much out-of-state money is supporting Prop. 29?

Hope CA voters are reading the fine print.

Medi-cal is another HUGE problem. There is generation after generation living off it this system. All funded by taxpayers. Some people to lazy to get out and get a job. True, there are people on it that truly need assistance. But was only meant as a temporary need, not a lifetime one. IMO, those unwilling to look for work should be out, 40 hours a week, doing community service to earn their free money. With all the cut backs to our rest stop areas, etc., these people could fill in on these vacated jobs. There needs to be more crack down on this system. We have people living out of state that is on this free money program. HOW does that happen?

@whitefeather- Got it, governments operate on budgetary projections and estimates. Too bad for your arguement because California actually projected a 9 billion dollar shortfall and still spent the money. So yes, they could have prevented it by reducing spending and raising taxes as necessary, but that doesn't get you re-elected. Doesn't California still over the federal government 10 billion from last year? That means they actually have a 26 billion dollar shortfall.....

Tood. You are right. Whitefeather knows a lot of facts but he doesn't know what they boil down to. That is a very common thing in our society. Lots of folks know lots of facts - but the critical thinking to figure out what it means isn't there. A gubmint paying it's employees 3 times what the private sector is earning, then complaining there isn't enough money is a gubmint on track to collapse if the only thing they can think of is cutting services and reaising taxes in order to keep the guarantee to the gubmint employees. As Americans continue to cannabalize each other the idea that a priviledged class of workers (gubmint employees) shall be protected and keep their outsized paychecks while the private sector gets ripped apart simply will not work. It looks a lot like Greece and will garner the same results.

Gee, Prag, maybe you need to go talk to the people that used to live in Maryland(?). I saw an article recently that described the DROP in income from the highest tax bracket when it was raised to "soak the rich."

Why don't you link to this article? I assume it isn't an opinion piece. I backed up my point with a link to a study.

We have a new neighbor that used to live in SoCal. He and his family could hardly wait for his transfer to come through so they could get out of the "land of milk and honey."

An old friend of ours was in charge of his employer's LA office for four years and he commuted every other weekend to be with his wife here because neither one of them could stand the thought of being forced to live in LA just for his job. He is now retired and living southern Missouri and just loving it.

And I know some rich people who consider it their civic duty to give back to the community that made them rich and successful by paying higher taxes. But these are just anecdotes.

If there are no more fish in left the pond, the bigger alligators will eat the smaller alligators.

Time to get out of the pond..

Folks will take advantage of a "sales tax holiday" in any state that has sales tax, if it is offered. I've seen it. People flock to the stores. However, if a store advertised a 5-8% sale on everything, it wouldn't be a big deal because it's a stupidly small amount of money for most items.

So why do people care about a sales tax holiday? They're sticking it to the man. Seriously. That's the draw. But while people will stick it to the man by shopping on a particular weekend, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody, rich or poor, who would make a big move over a marginal tax increase. Moving is not only expensive, it's a royal pain in the behind.

Yes, everybody has their limits. But I just don't think folks will pick up the stakes so readily because of a few %. If you had the means, would you? Would you pay the moving expenses, move away from friends, possibly family, find a new job in a new state, all because of a little tax?

Same old Democrat song and dance....tax, tax, tax...

Oh, please. This is EXACTLY what your precious Ronald Reagan did when he first became governor of California. Get over yourself.

According to FAIR (take from it what you will), illegal immigrants cost CA approximately $22 billion/year

This of course doesn't take into account the ancillary costs that come with illegals in the form of all of the public benefits that they apply for through their citizen-children's Social Security numbers; which includes everything from WIC, subsidized housing, welfare, aid to families of dependent children, subsidized child care, subsidized lunches, etc. Those costs are estimated to be several billion more.

It's a shame that the residents and taxpayers of CA have to bear the burden of illegal immigration just so that the Democrats can placate to their constituencies and the business owners can undercut prevailing market rates for labor at the expense of the taxpayer and legitimate workers in those industries.

The rich aren't going anywhere. No other state offers a fraction of the quality of life that California does. This is not a crazy tax-hike...the wealthy will STILL BE VERY WEALTHY. They've been utilizing loop holes and tax breaks for too long.

eliminate spending on ILLEGAL aliens governor moonbeam!!!......don't tax me to pay for @!$%# for those in california as the result of a criminal act!!!!

hey emily....you must not know what it is like be successful........the money earned by the rich is NOT the property of the state.......most rich people have worked very hard to build their fortunes....you are a moron.,,

Some say the rich will not leave California, but I say wait and see. Liberals are real good at telling everyone else what they should do, like pay higher taxes. But when it comes to their turn, now that is a different story. Senator John Kerry spouts off all the time about the rich paying their fair share, but his multimillion dollar yacht is parked in a different state to avoid paying taxes. California is the epitome of how poorly any state can be run, and both Democrats and Republicans share the blame. Trickle down maybe the Republican white elephant, but tax tax tax is the Democrats. Funny how neither side can say their plan worked. Reform, streamline, and simply government is the only real answer. Which is pretty much what every politician has been talking about doing since the dawn of time.

Time to get rid of that law that grants immediate citizenship to anyone who happens to be born in the US.

Just because a kitten is born in a Fish Market does NOT make it a Pike.

Most other countries either never had this law on their books or they junked it. The potential for abuse is limitless.

So following Pragmatics logic - we should increase the tax on the poor. They can pay a flat tax of 5% on all income. They don't have enough money to move and what the heck it's only a few % so what do they have to complain about.

Heck that's not a bad idea for the feds also!

No other state offers a fraction of the quality of life that California does.

California does have a pretty high standard of living for deadbeat @!$%#heads who are too lazy or incompetent to carry their own @!$%#ing weight. For the rest of us, your statement doesn't hold any water.

Illegal immigrants, blah blah blah blah. Please. Mexican immigrants are just the flavor of the decade for you all to hate. They're scapegoats for the real problems: Racism for one, and greed for another. If it weren't for immigrants, the entire economy in California would collapse. Who do you think does all the farming in California? Immigrants. Who do you think does all the dirty work for the hospitality business? Immigrants. Who cleans your office in the middle of the night? Immigrants. I could go on and on and on and on and on. They perform all of the jobs that all you stuck-up snobs deem "below you", and they do them for a fraction of the price that any American would, enabling YOU to have a higher-paying job at the exact same company, and have food on the table for much less than it SHOULD cost.

I'm so sick of the immigrant hatred that is getting us NOWHERE. Tell me, how are your stereotypes and hateful rants solving anything? I'm not denying that immigration is a problem, but you're blaming the wrong people. Why don't you get mad at the American citizens who are hiring the immigrants to save a few bucks? If no one was hiring them... THEY. WOULDN'T. BE. HERE. Just like if your forefathers hadn't been lured to America by jobs and promise of opportunity, YOU wouldn't be here.

Talk about ungrateful and entitled? America was BUILT by immigrant labor--especially the very infrastructure we depend on so much every day. Always has been, always will be. Who built the railroads? Who built the canals? Whose labor ushered in the Industrial Revolution? Who did the mining and the drilling? Their work here is indispensable. They're likely all your ancestors, and they did it under the same duress and hardship with the same lack of gratitude that you're affording the hardest workers of our society. What YOU are is ungrateful, entitled, and uneducated about how our economy functions.

Tell me, if you were born and trying to raise a family in place where you were fearing for your life every single day, where most likely your daughter would be sold to prostitution and your son would wind up shot in the head by drug cartels, and you had the opportunity to do the exact same job for 5x the pay just across the border, what would you do for your family? Don't hate the immigrants--hate the people who dangle the carrots.

Oh, and for all you who also can't get over your hatred of "liberals" and their views on taxes, maybe one of you geniuses can tell me what Reagan did when he first became governor of California to make up for the budget deficit. Anyone?

If you still don't see the light, by all means--please do tell me how well our current system of intolerance and deportation is working. Real well, huh?

Um, Emily,

Like most I met in California, you think the quality of life there is better than anywhere else. You need to travel more. I have lived in six states, and by far, the worst quality of life was in California. Not saying the state isn't blessed with beauty, resources, etc. So are other states. But Callifornia has ruined all that over the years. Best quality of life? Not even close, not in the top thirty.

Proceededbynone....

Nice rant. Completely misinformed and worthless...but nice.

Do you have any idea how many millions of Mexican citizen there are? How about they get together and change their country for the better. There may be many productive ILLEGAL immigrants, but the are at least 10 leeches for each one.

How about for a change you be an American and respect your country instead of being an open border liberal and giving away what others have worked hard to earn. And by other, I'm especially including the millions who came here LEGALLY.

Nice rant. Completely misinformed and worthless...but nice.

How so? Which part(s)? And you deemed it worthy enough to respond to, so I suspect it resonated. Probably just wasn't what you wanted to hear!

Do you have any idea how many millions of Mexican citizen there are? How about they get together and change their country for the better.

I'm sorry, I guess growing your food, cleaning up your garbage, and providing the backbone of society isn't very productive. Tell me, how are YOU changing this country for the better?

How about for a change you be an American and respect your country instead of being an open border liberal and giving away what others have worked hard to earn.

I DO respect my country--because I respect immigrants. Your sentiments are actually quite un-American, if you did some reflection. They were my ancestors, they were your ancestors, and as I've said--they built everything you rely on daily. I had to laugh when I read "open border liberal"--it shows you're truly grasping for straws. Where did I say anything about opening the border? I do believe you are the world's biggest fool if you thing building a wall will do anything, but I admitted, if you could read, that immigration was an issue. But the PROBLEM is not immigrants--they are simply being human (leaving an area with few resources in hopes of finding more). The problem is the people--American people-- who hire them. The problem is Mexico--the government, the economy, lots of things. The problem is the War on Drugs.

What's truly worthless are the xenophobic, racist, stereotypical rants and the people who cry for a wall across the border and tighter security and deportation. Clearly that's not working.

There may be many productive ILLEGAL immigrants, but the are at least 10 leeches for each one.

What an unfounded generalization! Although I could say the same thing about American citizens. Only the ratio would probably be more like 50-1, making them, in fact, MORE detrimental to society.

Don't believe a thing Jerry Brown says. California has so much money that he signed the Dream Act giving millions in state college aid to citizens ofMexico who sneaked across the border and shouldn't even be here in the first place. He signed that bill knowing full well that we had the extra money to support it. Now Jerry, Don't ask me to contribute more to your money-wasting state government, Take that extra money the state has and put it towards the budget deficit. Problem solved. Why does it have to be so hard?

PrecededByNone, if you believe in illegal immigration but maintain locks on the doors of your home and business to keep people from just walking in to take whatever they need to make a better life for themselves or their families, you sir, are a hypocrite of the worst kind.

Please post your address on this thread so people can know where to go if they need to relax in your living room, use your shower or raid your refrigerator. Oh, and please learn Spanish so that you can communicate with your new "guests".

if you believe in illegal immigration

NOWHERE did I say that, sillypants! Please show me where I said that. I said it's an issue. Like, twice... please learn to read. All I'm saying is hating the immigrants isn't SOLVING ANYTHING. I'll say it again: HATING IMMIGRANTS ISN'T SOLVING ANYTHING. Hate the people who hire them, if you must hate. But maybe instead of your ignorant diatribe you people could put your brains to use and actually come up with a reasonable solution or two instead of just making the freaking problem worse, but I know that's a lot to ask.

Your naivete is quite charming... You really think they're just coming here, stripping our resources, and taking over? PLEASE get over your paranoia. They're at the bottom of the barrel, and if you are threatened by them, it's probably just some Freudian issue you need to get checked out. Are they taking the farming jobs you've been trying so hard to get? How 'bout that burger-flipping position you applied for, but never heard back from? I'm laughing as I type this to think how scared you must be.

But please, get to the root of the issue--how is the hatred and paranoia solving anything? ANYONE? ANYONE AT ALL? At one point, the finger has been pointed at Chinese, Irish, Japanese, Jews... ANYONE who has ever immigrated to America. Learn some history. Read a book. Are we a Chinese nation now? Is the national language suddenly Japanese? You people truly slay me, it's astounding you can even type. Mexicans are just the flavor of the month. Oh--and last I checked, the names of most of the places they inhabit have been--always--Spanish already. I guess we could change the names of San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco so you don't freak out too much, and shut down all the Taco Bells and put some McDonald's up instead so you're more comfortable.

The only people who have come to this nation, killed off the natives and outstripped their resources, and denied all their survivors anything resembling a right is WASPs. If you're threatened by immigrants, you shouldn't be.

Last words:

The people who use the "drain on public benefits" arguments are also focusing on the wrong issue-- case in point: I have two cousins who live in California, ages 25 and 27. Each of them have 4 kids, each by a different father. 8 kids, two single mothers (who are, ironically, Republican) draining draining draining the welfare system. I can point to THOUSANDS of examples of Americans who are draining the state coffers. The problem isn't the people (you can't change human behavior--there will always be people who abuse the system, and the problem is clearly not unique to any culture), the problem is THE SYSTEM.

If you can take anything away from what I'm trying to say, it's this: DEPORTATION ISN'T WORKING. BUILDING WALLS ISN'T WORKING. They WILL find a way in. They system is what's @!$%#ed--the welfare system for one, and the people who hire immigrants to save a few bucks.

you sir, are a hypocrite of the worst kind

That's MISS, to you, and I'm no hypocrite. I'm just pointing out the unpleasant truth. Convenient that while you claim I'm a hypocrite, you have in fact not answered a single one of my questions, nor specifically addressed any part of my argument that you find invalid. Who's the hypocrite now?

Somebody's got their panties in a knot.

There is no middle-class left. That disappeared with clintons "new economy" and the U.N.s mandate to redistribute the wealth from developed world to third world. Why is it such a mental leap to realise that "redistribution of wealth" just creates universal poverty?

The middle class got a huge tax break. Course you liberals never know the facts anyway. The middle class tax cut was over a trillion. Much larger that the break for the so called rich.

Make sure you guys thank President Bush for those tax cuts!!!!!

Wow these people believe Fox analysis and the way Bush took care of the middle class by giving them tax breaks and Job in a war built on lies. Mission Accomplished!!

LOL, redistribute create universal poverty? I hope you are not in charge of water distribution. Let's see the upstream enjoy fertile lands with a dam build and the downstream suffers with barren land. Last I check, the release of the water from the dam actually help the overall region and allows both the upstream and downstream to enjoy the water.

If by your logic, I guess sharing water with Texas is a bad thing since it would make the all US in drought, right?

Hey PissedofPothead - read the breaks that the Bush Tax cuts really did and then you will realize why Obama keeps saying he only wants to keep the taxes on those making over $250,000. Notice that it's the same group Brown wants to tax.

Economics 101: The purpose of lower taxes is to help businesses to expand and increase consumer spending. When these things occur, more people become employed and tax revenue increases. This does not necessarily mean higher wages. However, the tax rate must remain stable or businesses and consumers will not spend money if their is a fear of increase. This is what is sometimes referred as trickle down.

I wish they gave 10 yrs of tax breaks to the middle class!!!

Wow these people believe Fox analysis and the way Bush took care of the middle class by giving them tax breaks and Job in a war built on lies. Mission Accomplished!!

THey did. This year we made 91K and paid 6.13% in Federal taxes and 4% in state taxes we could have paid 5.7% in federal taxes. Are you saying my taxes should be raised? how about the 66 million that make 50K and below ? 63 million of them pay 0% to the federal Government and 20% of them get more back than what they paid in the tax return.

These liptard listen to the Fox economic team "Tax breaks tax breaks tax breaks" Yet no jobs or a better economy. lolololol Time to tax liptards!!

Pissedofperson, 80% of the Bush / now Obama tax cuts go to the middle class.

lolololololololo sure lololololol what else did fox tell you lolololol

Get ready to watch the mass exodus out of the U.S.

Good! Ask any Oregonian or Washingtonian, and they'll tell you of the exodus over the past thirty years of Californians to the Pacific Northwest, driving up the cost of living in those states and generally Californicating all over the place.

I guess you missed the mass Exodus jobs out of the US. Most GOP supports the Free Trade and that is the start of everything.

It also baffles me how you can justify 8 years of Bush with 2 wars and tax cut, you don't cut tax during war times, it likes blood letting method in Middle Age.

Yep, and about 4 million people have left California just since 2005. Are people moving into California? Yep, the kind with their hands held out for a government check. California is one of those states that has become a magnet for illegal immigrants because they know they hand out more money than other states.

California is an example of where the entire country is going to end up if Obama and the Democrats keep shoving all these programs we can't afford down our throats, like Obama-care. You can keep spending more money than taxes bring in and keep borrowing the rest. Sooner or later that amount of debt and huge annual budget deficits will collapse the state.....and the country. California is about to go over the cliff.

Want to guess what we hear next? Jerry Brown begging Obama for a bail out so that taxpayers in the other 49 states can pay for it. I say California has to deal with its own problems. They created the catastrophe, now they need to bear the consequences of decades of bad decisions. The other 49 states have their own problems to deal with.....like avoiding becoming like California.

Come on, its for the kids, right?

David, you're mostly right. Except for the fact that people do come from other states as well. California is also known as a magnet for people looking for government handouts. California pays the highest amount of welfare when you start looking at all benefits (free childcare for single mothers, 100% tuition, etc.) Kalifornia, not just free money for illegal immigrants!

Funny, I could have sworn the California is one of the "Blue" states that pays more in Federal Tax than they receive. You know, the taxes that support the "Red" states who receive more than they pay.

Funny, I could have sworn the California is one of the "Blue" states that pays more in Federal Tax than they receive. You know, the taxes that support the "Red" states who receive more than they pay.

you're 100% correct. In fact, if Cali received what it paid in federal taxes, they'd run a massive budget surplus

California doesn't pay federal taxes, it's citizens and companies do.

Ol_Doc and Grover,

So now you argue the other way? Sucks when you don't get your money's worth, huh? Funny how it is ok to "tax the rich", "let's give everybody a fair share", name your socialist buzz words, except when it comes to California. Hey, it's a rich state, let's redistribute their wealth to other less fortunate states!

Sorry guys, you can't have it both ways. :-)

Cinnamon, it's a fact of living in a society. My federal taxes won't go 100% back to my state. For every dollar I pay the feds, my state receives about $0.80 in services. This is unlike, say, New Mexico, that receives over $2.50 for every dollar their citizens pay.

Now we can look at California. For every dollar in federal taxes their citizens pay, they receive less than a dollar in federal services. When their budget is so strained, it seems really hard to justify that kind of distribution.

Pragmatic-

No kidding. I get all of that, if you reread my post. It's called "sarcasm".

This is a state problem, not a federal taxation problem . California spends too much money on entitlements. Stop spending and driving people and businesses out of your state.

Unions by themselves are not the problem. There is something drasticly wrong with an economy where the last major employer is the government.

Right on Dennis. The real problem are pensions, specifically defined benefits vs. defined contributions. It is too late for those already in the pension system but for those just getting started California needs to switch them over.

California is our Greece.

Completely agree. Government workers, Police Officers and others don't deserve a 90% pension for having worked 30 years. Imagine getting a job at 21 and retiring at 51 with 90% of your last paycheck as your pension. Your pension does not get reduced if you get another job.

These unions are bleeding California dry. They contribute millions to re-election campaigns. Gov. Brown is in completely on their side. Never has there been a single mention of cutting these jobs.

The first thing to get cut is Education and second is Transportation. In my mind the first thing to get cut should be pensions and public sector union entitlements.

While you and me get a job at 18 or 21 and work until at minimum 62 or for you the younger workera what is it 70 now? What do we get SS of which at 65 you get to give them back $100 for the medicare everybody complains about.

Very true Jim

I pay over 1k out of my paycheck for health insurance and when everything is taken out I look at my check and just shudder complete RAPE.

When you take out Social Security, Medicare, CA SUI/SDI then Federal Income and last but not least CA State Income Tax your completed F'd..

Pension what pension here in the private sectors we do not get that unless you yourself put money into it...

Brown wants to raise taxes and let me just say 250k is really not that rich here considering how expensive everything is.

Most business professionals have had to take substantial reductions in their salaries in the last 3 years because our economy is doing so bad especially in the Real Estate Services.

It costs 12,500.00 per year to send your kid to a private high school like Servite in SoCal so they can get a good education... or they can go to school for free and get a average education that is not easy to learn when the average class size is around 45 per teacher. LOL imagine if you have 2 or 3 kids F'D

So 50k for 4 years in high school then the cost per semester in UC just recently showed over 20k per semester.. talk about ridiculous.. They say it's cheaper to send your kid to Harvard lol

Big Al....stop making excuses for yourself and those 250k plus buddies...and white-washing that MOST biz pros took a pay cut//ya right...labor, peons and lackeys took pay cuts, the biz pros got increases and bonuses after laying off huge segments of labor to make that bottom line look good for a short term (short term profiteering is the new game, screw long term prosperity)

California's debt started to pile up when Enron manipulated the energy market and caused California to have to buy energy at hundreds of times the free-market price. There's at least $10 to $20 billion of the 2003 debt in that... at least half of it.

You have absolutely no clue what you are talking about.

Welcome to Real Life cbawl first off I only make 100k and that's both me and my wife. I do not know anybody who makes over 250k.. I do not want my Sales Tax to go up we already pay way to much... I do not have more to give cant you understand that.

I love how you like counting other people's money that they bust their asses for.. They bust their asses off to make that kind of living and here you love counting it and to take it from them.

As a right wing Rush-loving conservative, I say if you contract with these state employees for benefits, pensions, retirements, whatever, you are honor bound to pay them. You (representatives of the State of California) sat down with these unions, negotiated, agreed and signed contracts with these people. You could have done better. But the honor of all Californian is at stake when you start reneging on these deals. If you want, strike a new deal with new people. But don't be part of a sovereign government just plain lying. From what I read here, the illegal entrants is the real money hemorrhage. It is the easiest to fix, too. These illegal entrants have no representatives; if they vote they just continue on their lives of crime. Cut these illegals from schools, meds, housing, the works.

California's energy prices went up because the environuts force you to buy most of your power from other states.

Jim-2346602

The only way CA can get out of their financial mess is to abolish the public sector unions. Cut salary, pensions and demand the employees and retirees pay more for health insurance. If Brown fails to cut public sector jobs and benefits, CA will never get back on it's feet.

REALLY?? I for one - totally disagree. It isn't enough we do more with less? I for one think it should start at the top - like the CEO's and down. Their outrageous wages, not to include, outrageous bonus's. If you want to cut retirement, healthcare, etc., lets start with all Government workers. Once they retire - they should all live on the same system we are expected to. The Social Security system in an instant fix.

ScottWilk, plenty of people HAVE already move to Arizona from California. Just not the illegal immigrants and others that are getting government checks from California. They have no incentive to leave because they're getting paid to stay. Arizona, Nevada and the surrounding states are getting California's productive people!

Yeah. I would and will again. I lived in AZ once and will be going back.

Lots of cheap real estate in AZ.

there's a reason its cheap...

Exactly.

George, I left at the end of the 70s. It was a great place to grow up but even back then it was starting to get out of control. I still love to visit but I don't regret ever having left California. I go there frequently for business and I just shake my head in disgust as I see the State committing financial and regulatory suicide. When you and your wife leave, you will find that there is a great life outside of California. Eventually, it will implode on itself and then there might be some great deals awaiting those who want to return.

Had dinner with my boss recently. She and her husband moved to California long ago. Loved the state, the weather, just about everything about it - except the out-of-control state government and taxes. Finally left California recently, partly to be closer to family and mostly to get away from the back-breaking tax burden. And they were by no means wealthy Californians. She told me they missed California, but had no intention of ever going back except as vacationers.

Seems like the answer to California's "need" for more taxes is an entertainment tax. The Hollywood crowd falls all over itself for liberalism and the Obama/Brown vision of bigger and better government. They are very rich as a group, and the California porn industry hauls in money by the wagon load. The medical marijuana crowd could be taxed, too. There are obviously many "sick" Californians who need their pot for good health, and an additional tax there would go a long way. Surely all of these people would gladly pony up to keep the state's creaky government going. Problem solved, everyone's happy!

using GZ's name as your posting avatar is a sure sign you are just a troll...

Come to DFW... We'd love to have both of you! Your wife will be thrilled with the cost of her malpractice insurance after the tort reform we passed years ago... and with all of the new huge businesses moving their headquarters here, CPA's are always in demand. So come everything really is bigger and less expensive.

:-)

Currently we make about 200K a year, so why would we want to live somewhere where financial success and hard-work is vilified?

who's vilifying financial success and hard-work? They're debating having those who make many times the income you and your partner do paying 1-3% more in state taxes.

That's hardly vilifying hard work, in fact, it's NOT EVEN CLOSE to vilifying hard work and success...

When government gives tax breaks and other subsidies to farmers and other business, these businesses are more likely to succeed.

What are tax breaks and subsidies? -

They are forms of welfare! Why do conservatives love corporate welfare?

Grover> It may be 1-3 points more but as a percentage it is upwards of 30% more. Do you understand the difference?

Great post...love it.

Excellent and to the point!

California is hardly Greece, and in fact, Cali would be running a massive budget surplus if they received in federal dollars what they paid in.

I believe they are already old friends. They take financial advice form each other.

California is hardly Greece, and in fact, Cali would be running a massive budget surplus if they received in federal dollars what they paid in.

Prove it. What Federal spending should the Government spend on instead of your state? What is the federal money spent on in the other states? have you looked at it?

Maybe the Democrats wouldn't get elected, but who would happen to the 1%ers profit margins if there were no unregistered workers left to work for them?

That's the income tax tradition. In 1913, it exempted income below $3000 ($66k in 2010 dollars). FDR dropped that the $500 and the govt actually had to make films about how to pay income taxes. You dont see those used in the FDR-worship movies.

Thanks Rick, well said! But why doesn't the voting public look to the place where both spending and taxation begin? Only the legislature does this, and the Democratic controlled legislature ( for many,many years ) has foolishly wasted the money of the public, has failed to manage spending and has demonstrated neither honesty, nor integrity, and shown the entire US and the world incompetence and completely inept leadership. Each year these lazy and corrupt career politicans pass a fictious budget, and this last year they even did this on time, only to be certain they received thier paychecks! If you remember the first foolish and unbalanced budget was deemed unbalanced by our governor and vetoed immediately. And the one honest person in state government, John Chiang did the correct thing to withold legislators salaries until they redid another budget. The second budget was little better as Governor Brown noted again today, and to show the entire world what kind of legislative leaders we have both Perez and Steinberg sued Chiang for doing the right thing! And....a foolish court upheld this lawsuit! California has zero hope of any fiscal responsibility as long as we have legislators of the kind we do now. While additional taxes on the wealthy would be a reasonably good idea, there is always one rule of good fiscal management..."It's not what you earn...it's what you spend". And by our taxation rules that allow nearly one half of people to pay no income tax and our foolish gratitious wasteful welfare programs for those who are not willing to work, that also must be changed. (Oh; and to clarify one comment about those who pay nothing, yes; they do have withholding taken from paychecks but they are refunded that entire amount and more because of income and family levels).

Wake up California...it's almost too late now!

Jack> You are correct. Perez and Steinberg are both liars. I hate to say that but Perez even lied about his college education for cryin' out loud. The governor of California has almost NO power and we here already watched Moonbeam v 1.0 and are now forced into watching Moonbeam v 2.0. The deal is.........we have to do this in sequence. First you give us the tax increases and then we do the "reform".

We have seen that movie before. The temporary taxes continue on and the reforms never happen.

Liberalism is such a horrible disease.....LMAO! They will NEVER get it!

I am broke losing my house & the only thing I have left is my job thank god I still have that otherwise I would be F'd

Thanks Gov Brown and to the Dems running this state straight to hell 8) your doing a @!$%#ty job.

Worked great for the USSR comrade. ;)

You bigotry and ignorance is showing...

Getting wealthy is not a sign of working hard...it is in most cases, a sign you have screwed over many others to get there..you stole, lied, cheated, paid off the government... exploited people, things, rules, laws... paid no taxes...(funny how you refer to other living off the system yet ignore those evading taxes...and living in the state, enjoying the benefits of the system, like Airports, highways, roads, police that cater to the wealthy...zoning to keep the 'wrong types' far away from the wealthy)

Get YOUR padded and coddled butt out to a field and work hard building/growing/creating something...no tax loop holes or breaks, no help, no employees, no illegal laborers, just YOU, work real hard at it, and let us know when you are wealthy...

Spoken like a true loser, Bawl... You base your answers solely on what you want to be true, and not on any facts. That's cool with me though. It means that you'll never compete in any serious way for any serious rewards.

Without my coddled butt, you'd never get paid for all that supposed hard work that you do, in the middle of the day, in between snappy MSNBC posts.

As far as living off the system, seems to me that when 1.4 million households chip in 40% of the revenues in this country, it's the other 140 million households that are getting the better end of the deal.

I'm betting you receive more handouts than most, and in return, spew nonsense to the hand that feeds you.

Now go fetch me a clean glass, boy.

great post awesomealex--I always say people who think like BAWL are great because when I get off work--I can always depend on people like BAWL to ask me if i want fries with my order when I don't wanna cook lol--Even in Hollywood people pay big taxes and then some other person says that if so and so hollywood actors kid can have 120,000 worth of shoes then they owe more taxes to help pay for others who can't afford shoes.

GIVING IS FROM THE HEART NOT SOMETHING THATS COERCED OR POLITICALLY CORRECT OR THAT YOU "OWE" SOME ONE WHO HASN'T PLANNED OR WORKED AS HARD AS SOME ONE WHO"MADE IT"

Getting wealthy is not a sign of working hard...it is in most cases, a sign you have screwed over many others to get there..you stole, lied, cheated, paid off the government... exploited people, things, rules, laws... paid no taxes...(

You do know most millionaires make between 75K-250K. they are in their 50's married to the same person. most millionaires you would never know because they live in the same home for 20-30 years and have never spent more than 30K on a car most drive a F-150.

those two hollywood stars pay more in taxes in one year than you and at least a hundred like you put together pay in ten. so because they have pumped $150k into the economy for shoes and another $120k into the economy for each car for their kids that is proof they should be robbed for even more of their wealth? wow ....

But if they did that the hollywierd actors/actresses would get mad and take their toys elsewhere and the democrat libs wouldn't get to count on their vote anymore.

NO NO NO NO Silly, actors are important political thinkers, and as such, they think YOU should give away yours, they put in their share by the tv appearances, and the PSA's criticizing YOU for not caring enough.. Its US, we, the unwashed masses who simply can't understand the brilliance of thought out of these deep thinkers.

When people, regardless their profession, make enough to spend 150,000.00 on their child's shoe wardrobe, they are already paying hefty taxes. Taking more away from them simply because they have more to take is wrong.

I'm more than a tad fed up with those who look to individuals they consider rich to pick up the bills, especially when the bills are the result of incompetent state and federal politicians who refuse to create a balanced budget and stick to it.

I run a household on X amount a year, and I do not have the luxury of going to the boss and demanding more income, simply because I might run myself into debt. It's time to demand that the governments that take our money deal responsibly with it and operate within the confines of total money available.

Complete bulls**t answer. The fact is healthy economies flow. Money moves from the top back around to bottom and flows back to top. Usually this happens through collection of taxes from those who have, and using those taxes to fund programs to give a leg up to those who have not. Redistribution is a part of EVERY functional economy. Period.

Now the catastrophic failure of Communism is it attempted to brings the extremes together in the middle ... no poor also meant no rich. But if people don't believe they can move up, but rather are forever mired in the middle, innovation dries up. After all, why try if it gets you nowhere?

But the opposite extreme .. Reagan's "trickle down" economics is also a catastrophic failure. Trickle down slashes tax rates on the rich, stops taking money out of the top, and assumes if we allow it to pool at the top, it will overflow and trickle back down to the lower and middle classes. Only trickle down completely ignores greed, and the end result is NOT a trickling down, but rather a massive pooling and stagnation at the top .. the end result of which is destruction of the entire middle class, and the collapse of safety nets.

The fact is the most properous time in history for the US middle class was in the 1950s when the top marginal tax rate was a whopping 90%. And yet the US UPPER class continued to grow at a staggering pace.

As long as the possibility of "getting there" exists, people will innovate & create. If you force everyone to the middle, you'll get "Atlas Shrugged". However, if you let 95% of the world's wealth pool with with hoarders at the top, you will plunge the nation into economic collapse. As for the wealthy, they'll always be able to escape war. What about you?

Raising the top marginal tax rates makes perfect sense. It should have been done long ago. In fact, the ONLY time the middle class has seen real gains since 1980 was during the Clinton years when (you guessed it) the top tax rates WERE raised.

So TonyinWyo how about taking a basic economics course? Turn off the talk radio and do your own analysis. The lies you are being fed are being fed to you by the very people working to protect their wealth. YOu fool yourself if you think they are altruistic.

He was a terrible govener the first time and couldn't get Oakland out of the hole so why was he expected to do any better the second time around?