I'm confused. Was this his fb account or one belonging to and officially representing the firefighters? The man's entitled to post whatever he likes on his own account and from his own network.

Does it really matter? If he puts it out there, the whole world has access to it one way or another. FB is not 100% contained. And when you work for a public company, what you say and how you act represent the team as a whole.

I think he would have been alright had he not put the "and my coworkers" in his statement. That implies it is the Fire Department's position.

That's where you have it wrong. Firefighters and cops see more than anyone else in our community. The bad, the ugly, and the just plain horrific. They carry it with them every day. You are a fool if you think that won't affect them or how they feel. But you are a bigger fool if you think that will keep them from a job they love and believe in.

Even Government Employees have 1st Amendment Rights!! The only problem with his post is that he was "mostly" correct, dress doesn't make the person. If it was about any other Ethnic Group there would be no response. I believe that he SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN DEMOTED FOR EXERCISING HIS FREE SPEECH RIGHT WHILE OFF THE JOB. Just because you're a Public Employee doesn't mean you work 24 hrs a day 7 days a week, unless of course they are willing to pay you for those 24 hrs days, 7 days a week.

Give me a break! This entire thing is ridiculous.

"Since he obviously doesn't desire to put out fires for minority property tax paying or contributing residents, he deserves a proportional pay cut."

Hate to break it to you but he is a member of the Firefighters Union. Under Union Rules his pay grade can't be reduced, only his rank. So he will be a Firefighter making the same pay as a Fire Captain. Less responsibility, same pay.

What he said was crass and uncalled for. Judging people by their social/economic status is about the same as judging them for the color of their skin. Something the so called 99%ers need to learn. However we are all entitled to our opinion and we are supposed to be able to express our opinions without facing such penalties. Is our first amendment protection so weak these days that people can be demoted and in the case of one Marine fired for expressing an opinion?

This is not the America I grew up in. In that America people of different views would say "I disagree with what you’re saying but I will fight for your right to say it." To all the people saying this is right, imagine if the table was turned. What if the firefighter was African American and was demoted for saying that Zimmerman should be arrested? What if the Marine had been complaining about Bush and the Iraq mission? Would your actions and opinions about the punishment be different?

Supporting Freedom of speech means standing up for the rights of people you disagree with. It means standing up for the right of the people to say things that are unpopular. Face it; popular speech does not need protecting nearly as much as unpopular speech does.

I agree, too much access to to much info.

hardcoffeat,

Me Too!!!, It is rediculous the way they use FB postings againts ppl these days!!!

What happened to his 'free speech' rights?

Poor taste? YES

But he was not making a reference to Trayvon Martin's parents, only to the problems caused by lack of parental supervision in some families, which most people would have a hard time disputing since he has to deal with the results on a daily basis.

Even the 'Reverend' Jesse Jackson once indicated that he would feel threatened if he was followed by a Black youth late at night.

The Attorney General, Eric Holder, once said that we are a 'nation of cowards' for not addressing issues of race, but who would dare point out that Black youths are about 8 times as likely to have a criminal record as White or Asian youths without being called a 'racist'.

By the way, before you call me a 'racist', my wife is Black and agrees with me, and my 5 'mixed culture' kids would laugh at you.

Skup,

That is a little presumptous of you. It doesnt mean that it is the departments position, only that some (possibly 1 or 2 or more) of his coworkers feels the same as him, not the department. Im getting so tired of public servants being fired over their personal beliefs because idiots can not distinguish between a personal belieft or opinoion from an departmental or govt agency opinion. If he had said the Fire Departments feels this way , and made it clear that he was speaking in an official manner than I could see what all the fuss is about and a demotion may be in order if he did not have the authority to speak for the department. His statements that some of his coworkers believe this way doesnt constitlute him speaking for the whole department. Get a freaking grasp of the English language, already!!!!

Wow, he lost money and my lose his job for someone elses comment.

Mike-416

So someone wearing a hoodie must have wronged him at some point? I am white and middle class and have hoodies that I wear - am I a thug?

You are kinda coming off as a little confrontational in your post, so perhaps. Although that is unrelated to your hoodies.

As an aside: All hoodie owners, please don't wear them up while driving your cars. I see this often, it totally cuts your visibility down and thus is dangerous for you and the public sharing the road with you.

If he had been a black fireman blasting George Zimmerman, nothing would have happened to him.....wanna bet?

john362791,

Amen!!! Love your post!!

Prove that is true before you start "amening" it!

Come on the guy is probably a white/ Latino cut him a break probably had a bad childhood.Typical one sided baiting article by MSNBC!!!!! No talk about the lives this guy has probably saved many of them probably minorities. Many people have opinions about people and their lifestyles and they are perfectly capable of acting totally professional and doing their jobs. Its called an opinion. Looks like allot of people have no mirrors in their houses!!!!

I think this country is towing a dangerous line by trying to legislate thought. I don't agree with what many people say - in fact, I sometimes get horribly angry at things people say, from polititians to sports writers, but I will NEVER give up my belief in their RIGHT to say things that I disagree with.

I don't understand what was wrong with what he said? You may not like what he said but I will make the assumption that his analysis is correct. Funny how telling the truth has now become grounds for punishment. Ahhhhh, now I'm beginning to see why Obama is so popular. Next thing you know we'll start seeing laws on the books against such actions.

"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty." -Edward R. Murrow

Was he wrong in what he said? Sort of. Stereotypes of people do exists in this world and they give people who stereotype a justification for their views. In the case of Trayvon Martin, though, he is factually and empirically wrong.

Does he deserve to be demoted? No. Freedom of speech. Although this illustrates why we have a secret ballot for voting these days. In the past when a person's voting record was public an employer would look at the voting record of his employees to see if they voted the way he wanted to. If an employee voted for a candidate or in favor of/against an issue that the boss didn't like then the boss would punish those employees via pay cuts, demotions, and even firing them. Much like what happens today with expressing your views on Facebook.

Should he undergo diversity and sensitivity training? Yes. These views probably bleed in to how he views African Americans in general and how he interacts with them at work. This should be addressed by his superiors in order to prevent him from creating a hostile or confrontational work environment for fellow fire fighters who happen to be African American.

"I and my coworkers could rewrite the book on whether our urban youths are victims of racist profiling or products of their failed, (expletive), ignorant, pathetic, welfare dependent excuses for parents, but like Mrs. Corey, we speak only the truth. They're just misunderstood little church going angels and the ghetto hoodie look doesn't have anything to do with why people wonder if they're about to get jacked by a thug,” he posted.

I don't know what else he wrote but I notice there is no mention of race in this paragraph, just a mention (implied) of ignorant and irresponsible parents (I am guessing he means parents who are on welfare by choice), "kids" who are not "church going angels", and the "ghetto hoodie look" (which, by the way, is not reserved to black people).

spider-737231

If he had been a black fireman blasting George Zimmerman, nothing would have happened to him.....wanna bet?

You are most probably right. I would be curious to know how many assume that he (George Zimmerman) is a "cold blooded killer" (etc) and posted hateful comments (and even death threats) about him, and/or about (all) whites being racists (which is actually a racist comment) on Facebook (and other networks) with no consequences to them.

Don't you just love the freedom of speech allowed puublic servants? They sign away their rights and earn them back as privileges.

Whether he was quoting an exerpt from another posting or not is not the issue. Public servants are not allowed to have negative opinions that go against public sentiment. Had he made a negative statement about how GZ might have been in the wrong, that would not have resulted in disciplinary action.

Amazing how politics plays into firefighter and police jobs. What would have been the outcome if he were the burger cooker at the local McD's?

1. Whats wrong with him speaking his opinion?

2. What did he say that is factually incorrect?

goodforgoodnesssake:"when you work for a public company, what you say and how you act represent the team as a whole." Wrong, there should be a separation between your work time/activities and personal time/activities. Otherwise you forfeit your own life and personality to the company. Would you stand for it if someone said "when you're black what you say and how you act represent black people as a whole"? Same principle here, but people want to take the bigoted way out and blame everyone in a certain class for the actions of a few; e.g., how many times have we seen stupid statements on this forum stereotyping all cops because one or two get recorded doing something wrong?

Ben Miner: "Freedom of Speech only protects one from actions by the government." Ben, his employer IS the government. There's too much case law passed specifically dealing with fire and police departments defining what can and can't be done for punishment because the employer is a local governmental body. That's why they're called "public servants". Different rules apply concerning hiring/firing/ and job rights.

In my opinion this is racial pandering because a white person's opinion is different from that of the racial propaganda machine. I wonder what the FD would have done had a black employee said something about hispanic community watch captains that happened to agree with the current popular opinion surrounding the TV/GZ situation. Would the reaction have been the same, since hispanic community watch captains don't usually riot?

While it might have been better for him, especially if he takes legal action, had he kept the opinion as solely his own, the argument could still be raised that he is not authorized to speak for his team or the FD and anyone with an ounce of common sense knows that.

The slippery slope here is that we are quickly losing our rights to speak a personal opinion just because it doesn't conform with the political agenda of the day. In ten years the pendulum could swing the other way and it might be unpopular again to be black, then whatcha gonna do when you can't make negative statements about white people??? You might want to change your tactics and start fighting for the rights of ALL races, not just your own.

thinker-he wasn't

The demotion of this fireman is just more PC correctness by public officials pandering to minorities that have come to expect special treatment and no criticism of their actions and abhorrent behavior. Just more crap.

erNo,

I do not care if you were forced to watch 50,000 kittens being thrown into a wood chipper. You don't get a free pass just because you have a hard job. People wanted to excuse the massecer of those 17 Afghans that deranged soldier murdered earlier this year as well as that other team that killed civilians because they had been deployed for a long time and it might have affected their mental state. Which brings me back to my point, you take responsibility for your actions, or so the Republicans have been shouting for years now, so this guy must accept responsibility for what he has said.

Freedom of speech does not protect you from what your speech has wrought, it only protects your right to say it. I find it funny that people always try and twist what the first amendment says to try and say "Oh but they are protected from being punished!". No they are not, it is a load of bull. You can say whatever you want but the reaction to what you say you have no protection from.

Anyone who has studied Human Services, Criminal Justice and even a little psychology understands his poorly said rant is true. The "ghetto" sub-culture is not a great place to raise well rounded healthy children. I grew up in Detroit in the 80's and 90's; I may not like the available statistics on social problems, juvenile delinquency and recidivism but I cannot dispute them.

This guy probably would have gotten away with a lot less trouble if he had not written "I and my co-workers". He is speaking for the whole Fire Dept. or at least his house, bad idea. These, I think, were very racist comments, he deserves his demotion!!

This is a free speech issue. The fire department is not a private employer. They are a government entity. Also, as John-362791 pointed out, as a union member, his pay cannot be reduced, only his rank.

I don't use FB, but if someone is on their private account, while not at work, their speech should be protected whether you disagree with it or not. I am also not a conspiracy theorist, but I agree with others above who have made comments about the government regulating thought. That is the case here with the fireman. Those of you who attack him should realize that next time it might be you.

This fire fighter is slandering his whole company. He wrote his opinion and stated it as a representative of his fire house and on behalf of what that fire house believes. And that opinion was a thumbs up to murdering people who dress a certain way. So yeah, as an employee that may get you demoted.

If a man can't speak his honest mind on a public issue without fear for his job, we might as well live in the Gulag.

This PUBLIC SERVANT is unfit to serve the sector of the public that he voiced his hatred tword.. He expressed his right to free speech. Now, he has to pay, and be held accountable for his words. I would hate be be a young Black male in need of emergency care from this fire house. Oh, and it was'nt Black people that created ghettos, and slums, America did!

SPeaking of text book bigot yes you are.

If a man can't speak his honest mind on a public issue without fear for his job, we might as well live in the Gulag.

Private companies use facebook accounts in the hiring process routinely now. Where is your outrage over that?

As soon as I saw the headline I knew A) he is white and B) a bigot. Same as the Marine who refused to follow any orders from Obama according to his facebook posts. And just like the Marine, this guy will most likely be trotted out on Huckaby or another Fox news show as a hero.

this guy holds a public position meaning that he will be in the public eye and he should not have been entertaining the idea that there wouldn't have been any backlash from this. Very dumb and stupid on his behalf, especially to include his staff, which only validates he lack of judgement.

As always, I am amazed at the amount of drivel that is spouted by people that are: A. Ignorant of the facts about a particular topic that they comment on and B. Foaming-at-the-mouth ideologues hell-bent on shouting down all that disagree with ANY portion of their particular agenda.

What I see here is a case of an off-duty firefighter with a perspective that very few outside public safety possess. He is probably showing the bad judgement to exercise his God-given right to free speech in what proved to be an all too public forum. DO I think that he should be demoted? No. Perhaps reprimanded for a lapse of sound reasoning.

What he says shows his experiences. If you have no experience in public safety, shut the hell up. I have 25 years and as much as I disagree with his method of expressing himself, I cannot find fault with his conclusions. They are observations based on what he has seen and experienced himself. It's easy for most of you to sit in your large glass houses and fling those rocks. You haven't been in the 'hood at oh-dark-thirty on a GSW call or called in to clean up a meth lab that may be booby-trapped. Try getting off your sorry duff and give some volunteer service time in public safety. There are plenty of opportunities.

Both sides of this argument are equally at fault for the tenor of the conversation. Does anyone remember the old saw about walking a mile in someone else's shoes? That way, if you still can't see their point of view, at least you're a mile away AND you have their shoes...

He's lucky that as a Fire Captain he was demoted.

If he was a Demote Captain he wouldh have been fired.

JohnS,

Since he obviously doesn't desire to put out fires for minority property tax paying or contributing residents, he deserves a proportional pay cut.

Those are just your Lib opinions. Here in America we have the right to say whatever we like and we are protected under the 1st amendment. Nice job you Libs are doing in destroying our rights. No wonder everyone hates a Lib. No common sense at all with Libs. Just do it my way, or it is the wrong way. You all need to some serious help for your ways you expect everyone to believe the way you do. You think it is alright for a man to be demoted do to his comment that is protected by the first amendment, but what about your OWS movement didn't you say you all had a right under the first amendment to assemble and cause havoc. I sewer you Libs are always saying do as I say not as we do. Or that an illegal immigrant even though breaking American laws can get welfare, tax refunds and schooling for the children, let’s not forget about the right to vote to keep your sorry Lib A**ES in the White House that is why you don't want people to have to use driver’s license or I.D cards to vote. Your party is the party that undermines the American way of life it is because of your party that our American dreams are falling apart because we help anyone except American's. Here‘s thought quit giving money to other countries, illegal immigrants and back door dealings that took place to get obamacare passed.

Obviously the right thing to do in this case is to fire this guy and replace him with an affirmative action candidate who didn't quite match the requirements but is the right shade for the community. Would that make the liberals happy.... glad i didn't post this to facebook.......

So would it be Ok to secretly hate a group of people so long as one continues to do their jobs and doesn't speak out publically on their views. You know, like normal everyday life for those with eyes who aren't willing to give chance after chance to wastes of space. Kinda like the way i feel about liberals after reading about another right they are being suppressed from exercising. I wish all the liberals would just move to california to concentrate all the bad ideas in one place and then wait for the quake to sheer the state into the ocean where they belong. It's a dream.

Terrifying! ... we are living in a Liberal-Fascist state! Complete mind control is Nirvana for Liberals. Liberals and fascists, they are one in the same. We should remember that despite their hatred of communists Nazis were propelled by a socialism-based philosophy. It is not too outlandish to conjecture that if ever we do perfect mind-reading machines liberals will find ways to impose their use on all of us, including, needless to say, for job applications.

Great Bible Scriptures for Facebookers to think about before they post - Proverbs 13:3 Those who control their tongue will have a long life; opening your mouth can ruin everything. Ecclesiastes 10:20 And don’t make fun of the powerful (in this case the majority public opinion favored) even in your own bedroom. For a little bird might deliver your message and tell them what you said. Also, we should all try to remember what our mamas taught us, "if you don't have nothin' nice to say, then don't say anything at all."

In the name of justice and MOST Americans this guy should not have been demoted for speaking his opinion the politicians don't like !!!! Truth to power !

Yeah this is going too far, while I disagreed with much of the right wings comments on the subject of Trayvon Martin, I would never deny them the right to vocalize them.

I wasn't aware that Trayvon's death was a political issue, Jan. I looked at it as a human being losing their life at to young an age.

@AG99: He does not have the right to say anything he wants when his statement implies that he speaks for the fire department. He deserved to get fired for that bullcrap!

@Jose: Fascism is conservative in nature, not liberal. There's an old adage that people have been forgetting — if you don't have something nice to say about a person, don't say anything at all? What possessed Beckmann to think that he had to right to imply that he speaks for the Fire Department when he expressed his own opinion. THAT is what got him demoted, not expressing his opinion. You people are missing the whole issue!

Perhaps we should pay attention to what he said.

It is time for everyone to drop the thug act, pull up your pants, straighten your hat, lose the ear rings unless you have a bra, speak fluent english and get a job, pay your bills.

I am tired og politically correct excuses.

Dear Loony Conservatives who don't know what the First Amendment Actually Says:

You have the right to say whatever you want; your ability to express your opinion is a protected right! However, you are not protected from the consequences of others reading/hearing that opinion. What you say has consequences. He had every right to post that slimy, hateful message, just as the Fire Department had every right to demote him, or even to fire him for speaking for his firehouse without authorization. He broke the rules. It has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FIRST AMENDMENT!!! It is entirely about a douchebag breaking the rules of his employment, and suffering the consequences!

If he had just stuck to saying it was his own judgement; his own opinion, then none of this would have happened to him. People would have complained; there would have been social consequences (like people realizing what a slimeball racist he was), but that would be it.

Stop being morons, right-wingers. Not everything is an attack on your or your rights. Grow up already!

The internet is a public domain, public forum weather we choose to realize it or not. Those who hold positions working for the public have a principled duty to express their opinions with thought, prudence and respect for the public that they serve. No one is making an omnipotent paternalistic statement/decision that opinions cannot be expressed...on the contrary. Opinions need to be reserved for appropriate forums. Federal Employees (including the military.) are educated on appropriate use and sharing of information as are civil employees.This is for the protection of the public that you serve. Voicing personal opinions that conflict with your duties need to be approriated and those opinions speak to the maturity level of the employee in their position. Just because you sit alone at a keyboard does not mean that you engage it as a public therapy session. It is no different than standing on top of your roof shouting out your opinions on the day's media events. Emotional issues like the GZ case are better left to true social groups and the responsible dissemination of information.

look, this guy is a fairly high ranking member of a department sworn to protect the public and he is talking sh*t about some members of that public. how would you like to be a person of chinese ancestory and hear the dentist youre going to say he cant stand "ch*nks." would you wonder if hes going to do his best for you and treat you fairly? well, thats bad enough, but in the case of a city worker, you cant choose another fire dept to do cpr on your teenager. he has a right to say stupid sh*t, but his employer doesnt have to keep a person who shows hatred for the people who depend on him. see, its only "political correctness" if hes talking about minorities. if he was black and said, "i cant stand these stupid rich white teenagers driving their daddys brand new car. when i see em smashed into a tree, i let em wait a while to teach em a lesson," that would be horrible. that wouldnt be free speech, that wouldnt be just political correctness to ask that guy to get a different job where he cant play god with your daughters life, would it? you people cant be that stupid, you just dont care because its not against you. thats "american exceptionalism"- of course we (read white americans) are better than everyone else, so we can blow up innocent people anywhere in the world, cause theyre just not as valuable as we are. and we can reveal our hatred of the people who are required to pay us, because that our right.

Political correctness sadly has taken the place of kindness, civility and mutual respect for sharing the same breathing space. Political correct behavior means many different things to many different people. Acting kind with genuine regard for others including their differences takes us to higher levels of functioning including other positive forms of expressing one's self. It means being invested in genuine concern for others, not that difficult at all. It means abandoning preconceived stereotyping, prejudices and judgments about groups, ethnicities, social and income positioning, cultures, etc. "Hoodies" are worn by everyone everywhere not just gang members. Maintaining a generalized idea about anyone runs the risk of misjudgment and preventable tragedies like Trayvon Martin's loss of life after just turning seventeen. The sterotyping going on in George Zimmerman's mind speaks volumes to his "state of mind" at the moment he chose to take an innocent life as opposed to using his words or turning the situation over to the assessment and evaluation of trained and educated law enforcement personnel and the 911 operator.

He's a fool. Police and Fire are paramilitary organizations in which you take an oath that include representing your organization and community 24/7 365 days a year. Freedom of speech does not apply. He agreed to that. As a retired firefighter, I'm appalled and embarrassed that this poor excuse dares open his mouth. Worse, he has a history of stupidity. The ONLY reason he wasn't fired is his union which, unfortunately, is bound by law to defend him. I will guarantee he is assigned junior coworkers because no respectable firefighter would choose to work with such an unprofessional, self indulgent waste of a uniform.

Its freedom that put this young man in the grave. Now days there is gangster rap, its freedom of speech and along with that freedom of speech come a attitude of many young people today. Its how they dress and act that is part of that rap. Now do you think if the kid looked, dressed and acted like a nerd this would of happened? Honestly, I don't think it would of. Where are the parents of these children that let them listen to that stuff. When Tipper Gore took and made a supreme court case of it I thought she was nuts, now I'm not so sure she wasn't right. She may have saved this boys life and if not his them maybe many of others that listen too and live that rap at a age when they don't know whats right or wrong. This boy is a example of that and I hope it stops now. Why should gansters and crime be glamourized? Can't those people get a productive job and be a role model citizens? Probably not and thats why you have this as a ending result of it all.

I'm willing to bet had the kid taken a different approach to the guy following him this wouldn't of happened. Had he addressed him as yes sir this whole ordeal would of been over before it ever started. Ok really, how scared was the kid if he went and turned back and kicked his behind? Not very. So had he turned to the guy asked why he was following him in a polite way he'd be here right now. He decided to take the gangster approach to it and look where it got him. What happened to diplomacy and polietness now days? The sad part about this, is that if we the people don't understand and try to stop it ourselves then this will go on and only create bigger numbers of the same and the cure for that? Yes going back to old school thinking and behaving, this gangster stuff isn't going to get anyone ahead in the world. Its like the country is taking a step back, my hopes are that soon because of this, two steps forward will be the end result of it. Its a real shame people have to die for this to happen. When are people going to learn? No guidelines today for kids gives them this kind of thinking and well its surely not the answer to this countrys working peoples progress.

One more thing and thats it for me. Zimmerman may have taken his responsibility to far, yeah ok. But he had neighborhood watch and now what if it was someone that was looking to break into someones home and kill the people in it. The same people here saying that he's guilty would be saying how come he didn't shoot the guy when he had a confrontation with him. Yes it does happen. He may had not been the right guy for that responsibility that night but he was trying to do what he thought was the right thing and yeah stop something like a killing inside someones home.

Its pretty eay to kill someone. When that someone is unarmed, not looking for trouble and alone. The "fear" George has expressed from the robbers and burglars who broke into homes was more than one and they... were actively looking for trouble.

Instead of being the hero - who defended his neighbors from "gangs" of dangerous "black males", George sought out a kid, who was alone and peaceful. Now this Fire fighther jumps on the bandwagon and pulls some totally off-topic incidents up as justification for killing someone who had nothing at all to do with the crimes George was supposed to be "watching" our for when he stalked and shot Trayvon. Different person, no crime - but, this City employee and George come up with a. a crime and b. killing a kid is the solution? A kid who was doing nothing dies, because George and this Fireman piss their pants when they see a kid, any Black kid, wearing a Hoodie - who doesn't snap to attentionwhen they want him too. Are they insane? Since when is a private citizen supposed to kiss the butt of some over zealous idiot with a Napoleon complex?

Kinda like kicking and stomping to death some elderly womans Yorkie or Chihuahua , because some Pit Bull bit you in the past? You could us the ever present excuse "in fear for my life!" - justify it further by stating - well, it had teeth and it could have killed me. Dangerous .... Little suckers, those Yorkies and Chihuahua's can do some serious damage? ... only to chicken craping wussies, who think they have rights to stop people at random and ask for ID's. Is this South Florida or South Africa - before Nelson Mandela?

It's not PC, it's being responsible for what you say and accepting the consequences....

You have the freedom to say whatever stupid things you want. However, you don't have the freedom to expect everyone to just give you a pass for being stupid.

But your opinion should not cost you two pay grades because your boss disagrees.

I work for a company. If I wrote my opinion, my company is not involved. If I wrote I am, blah blah, and I work for blah blah. I think this and everyone at my company thinks this same thing then I am no longer just representing myself, I am representing my company.

Here is what he wrote:

"I and my coworkers could rewrite the book on whether our urban youths are victims of racist profiling or products of their failed, (expletive), ignorant, pathetic, welfare dependent excuses for parents, but like Mrs. Corey, we speak only the truth. They're just misunderstood little church going angels and the ghetto hoodie look doesn't have anything to do with why people wonder if they're about to get jacked by a thug,”

I'm not a public servant but I would be fired for stating this for myself and my company.

Come on, he is NOT representing the fire department, he is claiming to represent his coworkers, that is NOT the same thing. He did not claim to be, nor did he have authority to act, as an agent of the fire department. No one with half a brain would take this comment as him stating the official position of the fire department. This demotion is pathetic governmental overreaching and violation of the first amendment.

The demotion is not "pathetic governmental overreaching..." but consistent with the values of the Department which he serves. Professionals are held to higher standards of both personal and social conduct. Facebook posting of personal opinions is not appropraite social conduct by those who hold positions of high level responsibility. The status of "Fire Captain" denotes a level of social responsibility to the community in which he/she serves and with that privalege comes a great burden. Professionals are educated in "Ethics" which includes appropriate personal responses to exposure to stressful situations. Leading by example means so little and this reaches intoo every avenue of communication. How do you expect to restore civility if you do not behave in manner consistent with polity, grace and decorum? Before pointing amature fingers, research the role of civil employees in your communites. Public publishing of individual opinions goes to all forums of public opinion. All forms of communication have grown absent of courtesy and respect for those engaed. Think before "reacting" on your respective electronic devices since so many seem to have a need to leak their opinions in public regardless of whom that opinion may harm. There is reason that Journalism is taught as a Profession. There is a reason why privacy is respected including not sharing private phone conversations in public.

But your opinion should not cost you two pay grades because your boss disagrees

Nor should going to the store or walking alone, on a sidewalk cost you your life.

He may had not been the right guy for that responsibility that night but he was trying to do what he thought was the right thing and yeah stop something like a killing inside someones home.

And yet you wonder why kids, gang up in the 1 st place? Even a good kid can become convinced that the only way to protect himself from Idiot wanna be vigalntes or Firemen, is to join a gang? Are we going to give up our Children to fear driven vigilantes or idiots hiding behind their right to insult dead kids who died for nothing - a mistaken justification that "someone" thought they were going to do something. Nothing happened and the kid was killed - and Juan Fiero wants to stick his two cents in to the resulting fire storm!

I can see why Trayvon's Mother wanted him out of Miami - Dade... unfortunatly, in moving her son from the dagerous, ignorant city Employees of the city, instead he dies at the hands of a Chicken craping wussie, wanna be Cop with piss water for blood.

Facebook hardly entails anonymity.

goodforgoodnesssake - isn't the purpose of the first amendment to protect speech that the government might find objectionable? If the only things the governement - in this case the county government - will allow us to say are things that everyone would agree with, what would be the need to have protection against infringement of speech by the government?

Freedom of speech does not include freedom from repercussions of your speech. It means that the GOVERNMENT can't JAIL you for your speech, except when you are trying to incite a riot or yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theater. But in terms of a job, your speech can cause you to be fired or demoted. That would NOT be a violation of freedom of speech.

T-Day, go tell one of the women at your job how great her tits look today, then come back here and whine about free speech when your ass is unemployed. See how that works out for you. Or is that freedom only shouted out whenever someone wants to get away with soft bigotry?

T-Day - You are just NOT smart!

Yes he had Freedom of Speech and he choose to say what he wanted and his employer has Freedom of Speech and choose to say what they wanted "you are demoted". In addition, you do not know what their Employees Employment Manual or Contract states, and if in fact he violated the terms and conditions of his employment contract than again there are consequences to your actions.

He has a right to free speech and he exercised it. What many do not realize is that free speech isn't free from the repercussions of that speech. Having worked in a managerial position you are told that you represent the company 24/7 and what you say and do reflects on the company so be careful what you say and do because it can and will have a negative impact on your employment. We all sign documents to that effect. When he added the part about his coworkers it took it out of the realm of personal opinion and moved it into the realm of the department's opinion. It is sad that he was demoted but the responsibility for that lies with him.

Lamont, you're not understanding what these people mean. They're saying he has a right to say things hateful against black residents. And that blacks, if hired, don't have the same right against white residents.

It's called racism. Many of the people here are likely the suburban styled racists better known as the *not-racists.

*Not-Racist -- a typically isolated white person or culture in a suburban environment that leads a life of intentional bias and ill-will. But becomes outraged when their opinion is disregarded as irrelevant because their biases and hatred invalidates anything they say regarding race or culture or to/of a person of another race.

JohnSixty - I don't think anyone in Miami could be considered "a typically isolated white person or culture in a suburban environment"

That's why Trayvon Martin was not murdered for being black in Miami. He was murdered in Sanford FL near Orlando. And, yes, Orlando is highly racist. The white people in that locale seethe and spew a brand of hatred even Hitler would say is too extreme.

^Really..how interesting

But JohnSixty can't see that his totally stereotyping statements are racist. Shame shame.

John, ignore the voices and go take your meds. You're speaking babble.

I feel badly for him...its a kinda catch 22 situation,as public servant you be 'even handed'..there are things you think but cant say outright,because it brings on results as we have seen here.I am going to buck the trend and say most times things get out of hand and violence happens due to the way people are perceived,not saying its right but there is always one person who is going to read the situation as he/she see it and though it might not be as they see it ,they react out of fear and then we have tragic results.I dont believe he should have lost his promotion,but thats politics in play,send him home for a couple of days so he can cool off and think out his waywardness....of course he has to set an example to his charges.When you are at the top of the ladder you behavior does trickle down and it will always seem right to the people below you if you dont show responsibility.Its time for folk to step back and let the powers that be judge and render their decisions either way,after welfare,broken homes,careless mothers/fathers and the like,cuts across all colors and creed.

Cat - the first amendment does much more than keep the government from jailing you for speech it doesn't like. The amendment says that the right to free speech shall not be "infringed". Therefore the government cannot take ANY action that has the effect (whether that's the intent or not) of limiting the speech of its citizens. My argument is that the government is not off the hook when it is acting under the guise of being an employer if the actions of the employee being sanctioned were not part of that person's employment. Since the gentlemen under consideration here posted something on his personal facebook page on his own time, his actions are not part of his employment. Therefore the government sanctions are an infringement on his personal free speech rights and in direct violation of the US Constitution.

I'm sorry joe, you are not correct. ANY employer has the right to discipline their employees for things that are against the policy of the employer. If you tarnish the public image of your employer, they are allowed to discipline you - regardless of whether the employer is a private company, the police department or the fire department. The "gentleman" in this case included the words "and my co-workers" which takes it out of the realm of his personal opinion. That takes it into being a representative of his employer. Therefore, the discipline is warranted and fair.

JohnSixty

That's why Trayvon Martin was not murdered for being black in Miami. He was murdered in Sanford FL near Orlando. And, yes, Orlando is highly racist. The white people in that locale seethe and spew a brand of hatred even Hitler would say is too extreme.

OpenwidebBI44

^Really..how interesting

CC GWRider

But JohnSixty can't see that his totally stereotyping statements are racist. Shame shame.

John, ignore the voices and go take your meds. You're speaking babble.

first that second statement is a personal attack, not allowed by the coh, reported.

actually he is correct. law enforcement and the population of sanford florida have acted in a racist manner towards the african american populationof sanford florida. just a few weeks before trayvon martin was killed the son of a sanford florida police officer did not get charged or tried for knocking out a homeless african american man even though the assault was video taped and posted on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHGEam82GME

and here is an article about sanford florida's long history of racism

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/01/1079682/-Sanford-Florida-s-Troubled-History-of-Racial-Injustice-Prejudice

johnsixty is not stereotyping or being racist by stating the truth

Freedom of speech does not mean that you can't lose your job or be fired for your speech. Freedom of speech only relates to the Government not arresting you for protesting against your elected (or non-elected) representatives. It does not translate into the public or civilian sphere in relation to a job.

Don't you know that we have to give up our Rights in order to defeat Terrorism? They hate for our freedom. If we give up our freedom, they will no longer hate us - MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. Welcome to the post 9/11 NWO. Love it or GTFO.

Continued ignorance.

Not sure why these 'third-grade thinkers' continue to insist there exists something called "freedom of speech." You cite it at every turn. It's a catchphrase, friendo. Truth is, there have always been limits to any so-called freedoms. You cannot say just anything you want, and never could. If you are too short-sighted to recognize the many exceptions to your golden rule, i would suggest you need a revisiting of a gradeschool textbook.

you are just a bit malodramatic

he's a fireman which means we works for the Government. He shouldn't be punished for expressing HIS opinion. Do you want to change the 1st Amendment or just ignore it?

So as long as you work for the government, you should be allowed to say anything, even if it brings disgrace to your department or team? John, do you truly believe the intent of the 1st Amendment is to shield you from all consequences for whatever you choose to say? Should this guy be able to tell his boss to go ##$% himself and then claim 1st Amendment freedoms? The govenment cannot PREVENT you from saying things in a public forum, it does not mean they are obligatged to continue EMPLOYING you should you choose to do it.

Thats bull @!$%#...Sharpton Jackson the NBP just to name a few "Incite a croud to riot etc"...every time they open there mouths. But that seems to be ok.

Case in point...what If this fireman would have been black...and made these types of comments about white communites and such? Not so much as a peep Im afraid.

I will admit that this gentlemen was none to smart to use his real Idenity via Facebook...he put himself in this situation...not smart at all. But I feel the punishment is much to harsh.

I deleted my facebook account about a year ago..I like to think that Im entitled to my thoughts and opinions without the whole world knowing who I am. I like to choose who I share my opinions with...I know...a faded memory of time long long ago.

Sigh

John Deatherage

he's a fireman which means we works for the Government. He shouldn't be punished for expressing HIS opinion. Do you want to change the 1st Amendment or just ignore it?

So you are saying that government workers are exempt from normal work place procedures?

Are you able to go up to your boss and say something bad about his wife? After all - you're just exercising your freedom of speech right?

I see the bigots are out today.

I think you have to look at this for what it is.... This person, who happens to be a firefighter went on a website and made a statement to people he perceived as his friends....not the public. We are all people who should have a right to express our opinions.

The other side of this coin is the fact that he is a supervisor and I'm sure that many of his friends on Facebook are also co-workers and people that fall under his supervision. If his statement was filtered to post to only friends outside of work....then maybe that would be ok. However, if his post is going to people in the department, then I can see where that may be an issue. Whether you use the internal e-mail to send a statement or Facebook....the message is still being delivered.

People need to clearly separate business and personal communications. I'm not sold that Facebook is the problem and needs to be avoided. I think people just need to be mindful of how they use it.

I tell me 14 year old daughter all the time.... Think of it just like you were standing in front of those people in 'real life'. Think of the friends you have on Facebook. Would you really say 'LMFAO' to your grandmother, or to me? Know your audience.

So you're a bigot if you state actual facts. Im thinking a "realist" would be the better discription.

No Mike you are not speaking actual facts, you are stating what YOU think are actual facts. That don't make them real.

Mike J... where are the actual facts? This guy gave opinions.

Mr. Beckmann worked for the Fire Dept, not the Social Services dept. So, how can he determine which parents are welfare recipients and which aren't? Once he determines their welfare status, then how does being a firefighter qualify him to determine the status of the children (thug vs. good kid)?

He then went on to further the stereotype that certain articles of clothing are a good indicator of criminal intent. Utter garbage.

Mr. Beckmann did not state any actual facts. He vented his bias on FB. I'm sure some of his fellow employees saw what he posted and took issue to it, which is why he is in the situation he is in.

Honestly, if there were facts in his diatribe, I'd stick up for him. But there aren't any facts, just his bias. The demotion is justified.

The important lesson here is that you can lose your job based on your opinion.

His best bet is to go on FB and other internet sites and find where co-workers, upper management and others of a different protected class have stated their opinions without repurcussions and sue based on discrimination based on his contrasting protected class.

For examlpe, it has already been established in the courts that clicking "Like" on a political page is not protected free speech.

He can go online and find where any individual working for the government has clicked "Like" for any political candidate or political issue or social issue and use that as a basis to establish that he was discriminated against.

In other words, for equal treatment, anyone who has a job with the government that has made comments that are "disparaging" to Trayvon or that are "disparaging" to Zimmerman should be demoted or disciplined.

He should have posted his opinions on MySpace and no one would have evern known. :)

The government has not jailed him for his speech. He can rant racist nonsense all day if he wishes, but his employer has a right to determine if he's fit for the job after doing so.

His employer is the Government. Expressing an opinion publicly doesn't affect his ability to do his job.

Liberals hate the first amendment so they rationalize it away like appalachian does when someone says something they don't like.

Sammy Johns - Liberals hate the first amendment - Really?? Let this liberal enlighten you - definition of liberal:

1. Broad-minded: tolerant of different views and standards of behavior in others

2. progressive politically or socially; favoring gradual reform, especially political reforms that extend democracy, distribute wealth more evenly, and protect the personal freedom of the individual.

This liberal does not hate, but I have little tolerance when Republicans who stoop to name calling and making accusations, just because people have a different political and religious point of view.

Sammy Johns

Liberals hate the first amendment so they rationalize it away like appalachian does when someone says something they don't like.

10 bucks says you have no idea what the first amendment actually says.

Yes. It only protects "progressive" speech by Liberals.

The rest of us are "ignorant" and our opinions are not wanted and are therefore illegal.

There is some truth in the Fireman's statements, no matter how unpalatable you may consider them to be.

straight, There is some truth to his statement but what does that have to do with Trayvon Martin? Both of his parents WORK FOR A LIVING, so his refernce to "welfare" is an outright lie, isn't it? Why did he single out Black people? There are no Whites or Hispanics causing trouble in this country? Really?

NB820-001, good points. As a working person who is Black I resent it when there is an assumption that all Blacks are on welfare. Welfare recipients come in Alll races.

His employer is the Government. Expressing an opinion publicly doesn't affect his ability to do his job.

Well how do you really know? Maybe he drives a little slower to the section 8 houses on fire. His attitude is certainly suspect.

appalachian, are you saying that the first amendment only applies to Congress? Are you trying to take a completely literal definition and ignoring the "spirit" of the law? Check out the distinctions of law (e.g., criminal, civil, common law, tortiary law, case law, precedence, English common law, AG Opinions, etc.). Nothing in the law is that simple. I believe there is enough case law to show that a local government cannot infringe upon protected rights.

Freedom of speech DOES NOT mean freedom from reponsibility. You don't seem to know or understand that. You can say what you want within the law - there's your freedom. If someone doesn't like what you said and makes you pay for your words, was it worth saying? There's your responsibility.

Pretty simple concept, seems to be lost on simpletons.

It's sad, is it not? Only when it's race related do these people come out of the shadows to claim free speech with no clue what the freedom relates to. Only when someone is told not to wear the confederate flag or when someone is fired from a radio show for shouting the N word do these people enjoy that freedom. They are the first ones that want to ban a rapper from performing poetry at the White House or demand an apology from an athlete that used a cuss word while on the basketball court. Pathetic.

Rationalization of the left. That pesky first amendment is a bitch, isn't it?

A firefighter isn't like an active duty military member at all. You are speaking out of your behind.

(Soldiers are covered under UCMJ. Firefighters are not.)

As the daughter of a retired Commissioned Air Force officer, I think I know a lot more about the military than most civilians. Yes, the UCMJ is what governs a member of the military's actions and "rights" as well as the punishment for those actions if they run contrary to the UCMJ. Just as our military personnel run into danger to protect our country and our way of life, Firefighters and the police run into danger to protect our property and our lives. Both firefighters and military personnel are "on call" 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. So tell me again that they are NOT alike at all.

But the First Amendment sets forth that the GOVERNMENT can not punish you for speaking your mind in a public forum ABOUT THE GOVERNMENT. This was not allowed back in the 1600's when we were a British colony. Colonists did not have the right to criticize the King, Parliament or a Governor. They could not say that a tax was unfair, that a law was unfair or unfairly applied or that a person in Government was a lying, adulterous sack of excrement.

Employers are free to fire or discipline an employee for what they say. You can not go up to your boss and tell them that he or she is a *&*#@ without expecting repercussions. You can't go out and tell everybody that the company you work for is oppressive. You can not, if you're a man, tell a female subordinate or co-worker that she "has a nice rack" without sexual harassment charges. You can not, if you are a woman, tell your male subordinate or co-worker that you like the way his groin looks in that pair of slacks. When I worked for Bank of America, we could not wear anything with the name or logo on it if we were going to be doing something questionable or controversial while we were wearing the logo or the words Bank of America because it could bring down controversy or bad press to the corporation.

I am moderate. I am liberal on some things and conservative on others. But I also know the circumstances behind the drafting and wording of the Bill of Rights, why those rights exist and what they cover. Freedom of Speech is related to criticism of the government. It is not and was never intended to be related to employment and being free to say whatever you want without any consequences in a job. As a representative of the Fire Department because he was a Captain, he should have known that he could be fired or demoted for such a STUPID mistake as putting that supposed quote into his status on Facebook. Whatever his personal beliefs, feelings and opinions, he is obligated to think about what he was saying and implying. He is always free to quit his job and talk or type whatever he wants to. He still has that freedom.

Well said CAT - I can only hope that Sammy (The racist) reads that!

Wood Don, I cannot conclude that Sammy is racist, but he sure does seem to have trouble grasping the fine points of free speech. It has nothing to do with politics, Sammy. It has to do with our constitution and common sense. The demoted Captain cannot be jailed for expressing his foolish opinion, but he is not protected from the consequences of his stupidity.

You better go check it out again, cat. Freedom of speech is not limited only to criticism of the government. Case after case has shown that comments on any newsworthy or political subject or public personality can be legally protected speech. No, you don't have freedom to verbally infringe upon an individual's rights, such as your example of workplace harassment, but that's not what happened here.

While police and firefighters are "paramilitary" in design, they are not held to the same standards and rules of the real military. They are considered "civil authority," and "civilians." There are distinctions you can't overcome even if you are the daughter of a commissioned officer, and yes they have "civil rights" that the real military does not have.

You people want to limit the discussion to the wording of the first amendment and not to the overall concept of "freedom of speech," but you miss the point. Others on here miss the point only because they perceive that a white man made a "racist" statement and they can't get past that. They seem to approach the subject with their own bigotry while denigrating others for doing the same.

What the firefighter said may eventually be deemed "not protected speech" and his punishment stand, but if that happens I think it will be wrong. What he said (on his own dime at that) was not bad enough to justify jeopardizing his work life, even though it may be unpopular in the court of PC public opinion.

CC GW ... if he had left it only in terms of "Me, myself and I" and not involved "my co-workers" then I would agree with you. But when he added/included them then he tarnished the image of his employer.

What part of the Free Speech being about the Government do you not understand? Yes, you are free from defamation if the speech is deemed to be opinion and you are free from slander/libel if what you said is factual ... but that refers to LEGAL aspects.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/first+amendment

The Founding Fathers were intimately familiar with government suppression of political speech. Prior to the American Revolution, the Crown imprisoned, pilloried, mutilated, exiled, and even killed men and women who belonged to minority political parties in England, in order to extinguish dissenting views. Many of these dissenters left England in search of more freedom in the New World, where they instead found colonial governments that stifled political dissidence with similar fervor. Maryland, for example, passed a law prohibiting "all speeches, practices and attempts relating to [the British Crown], that shall be thought mutinous and seditious," and provided punishments that included whipping, branding, fines, imprisonment, Banishment, and death. The Free Speech Clause of the Constitution was drafted to protect such political dissenters from a similar fate in the newly founded United States.

In addition, let's look at the actual text of the First Amendment regarding freedom of speech:

“Congress shall make no law...abridging freedom of speech.” (emphasis added)

There was no law made by Congress (or the state legislature) to prevent this guy from saying/typing/cut and pasting what he did. It is not AGAINST THE LAW. However, his employer (who does not pass laws and can not JAIL him for what he says) is free to fire, demote or otherwise "punish" him for what he said as a representative of their engine company/company. This is why it's not a "Freedom of Speech" issue. Freedom of Speech is about LAWS - not about being free from the consequences of your speech.

In addition, if you read my original comment, I brought up the military in relation to firefighters as being "on duty and on call 24/7". I further explained other areas where the military and firefighters are similar when I was told that they are "not alike at all". I never said that firefighters (except for Base/Post fire departments) are part of the military. I never said that firefighters are held accountable to the UCMJ. I never said that they are EXACTLY alike. I never said that they are held to exactly the same standards. What I did was draw a comparison that like the military, firefighters are "on call and on duty" 24/7 and that they run into danger to protect us in much the same way that the military does.

If stereotypes were not true, they would not exist.

Wasn't it our illustrious President that used the phrase "Typical white person"?

I suggest EVERYONE shut thier mouth's and let the judicial system do it's job and everyone move on with thier lives. Expressing an opinion about this subject does no one any good and only keeps the contravery alive.

Yes it is. Speak your mind on your facebook page, get demoted.

Perhaps you feel this is a "freedom to not have speech" issue also known as political correctness run wild. It really helps these scumbag communities when people like you make excuses for them.

Sammy - read a book - Try your little freedom of speech act at work - (If you have a job) "Call your boss a hot piece of ass looking hot in that hoodie" Then scream "Freedom of Speech" as they escort you BACK to the unemployment line!

All your comments about calling your boss names or sexual comments to coworkers would have merit if that is what this fireman did. What none of you are realizing is that this was not at work, not on a fire department fb page, but at his own home on his own computer on his own facebook page and he was quoting someone elses post. I'm sorry but this is not the same thing that you are trying to rationalize away. yes it was stupid of him to make such a post, but he did nothing in an official department setting, and therefore should not be demoted, some displinary action maybe, but that is still questionable since he did not do any of this at his workplace or while representing the Department. That would be like a friend overhearing a comment you make while drunk and at a party and then going and telling the boss what you said and then you get demoted because of that. Does that seem fair?

It really helps these scumbag communities when people like you make excuses for them.

That says everything we need to know about you right there. And it's called bigotry.

Have you been arrested yet?

See, your freedom of speech is still intact.

I hope you're aware that the First Amendment does not protect you from the consequences of your speech. It merely means the Government may not interfere with or suppress your speech. You have the freedom to spout your ignorance all over this board and even in the real world.

And what's this about liberals? What does that have to do with anything?

Sammy John - we liberals got it - you don't like us. We also get you are a Republican - now that we got that settled. Can we move on...do you think that all people who live in "Inner City" are hoodlums? Do you not think that most are hardworking adults trying to raise their families out of the "Inner City". That paint brush of yours is very wide indeed, but you can not apply equal pressure because of its size and therefore the paint you are applying is inconsistent.

If you consider his comments "bigotry" and think anyone who harbors those ideas should be fired... then our cities would largely be unprotected by fire and police departments.

There is the reality that is contained in these cities and the bleeding heart stupidity in the minds of your average liberal. These goofs you hate so much often vote for the democrat party in huge numbers (union firefighters/police).

It is hilarious to see you idiots attack each other.

:0)

Sammy Johns, your H A T E is very, very visible. Like something out of the 1950s.. No, I would say real early 1900s. Where rights of others didn't exist. But, everything was okay then.

However, even though our Founding Fathers had some flaws in the Constitution, they did include ways to make it correct itself in the later years. For that, I say bless the Founding Fathers big time. D I P C H I T S like you are fallling by the wayside. And with election of a minority for president, I can see why your kind/type/ilk have their blood vessels busting with hate. Squirm, you P W T, squirm I love to see you all squirm.. ha ha..

You have not ideal what a bigot is, you are one, you list George Wallace, I want to tell you about him, he stood in the door of the school not so much as to keep blacks out, but to show people how far the government would go in making you do something. Now, look at what they are doing, OBAMAcare for one thing, have you read the bill, I have, its disgraceful. If you are over 70 and have a stroke, you will not get any care, they will make you comfortable, if you are over 70 and have cancer, you will not be treate but made comfortable. This is what our government has pushed on the people, they now have drones that can track your every movement, and I have a friend that is in government and she says be careful of what you say anywhere, because they are listening. This is what George Wallace wanted people to see. Our government is going socialist and then they will tell you where you can work, the will spreak the wealth, not of the wealthy, but of the middle and lower class. They will still be living high on the hog so to speak. You need to look at what the government is really doing, and then change your ways.

usa is great, the reason you can't see the wrong, is because you think like HIM!! Being that you THINK LIKE HIM, you can see no wrong.. Simple my dear Watson!!

You are a bit of a child and completely wrong. YOu don't have to agree with his beliefs to think the punishment is completely incorrect. If you've never worn a public servant uniform, then your opinion might as well be that of a 3rd grader in this. Thinking everyone who disagrees 'thinks the same' is just dumb. The only simple thing in this equation is you.

I just happened to be a 72 year old child. I was here when German Pows were given more rights then Black soldiers fighting in WWII. I have seen many injustices spat out and at times when we are supposed to be the nation of the free. So, don't give me that child crap..

Not disagreement that causes my wrath, is it complete disregard and protection and support of BIGOTS, that gets my wrath. However, and this is the truth and I have seen it from my 72 year old eyes a lot. Bigots don't know they are bigots. The bigotry has been passed down from their ancestors. That is why they, like you, can see no wrong..

I take the "child" bit as a compliment.. I do have my moments!! (big old wrinkled grin)

So you were 1-5 years old when WWII was going on, and you remember that?

He spoke his biased opinion on a public forum, and presented it as the shared opinion of the fire department. that will get anyone FIRED, not disciplined.

Once again, navyvet, here you are attempting to deny the facts. Read the damned post.

The best thing about Facebook is....oh...there is no best thing about Facebook, maybe thats why I never used it....or Twitter.

"I and my coworkers could rewrite the book on whether our urban youths are victims of racist profiling or products of their failed, (expletive), ignorant, pathetic, welfare dependent excuses for parents"

Right there NAVYVET!

That my Navy friend is what is called a RACIST rant!

The expletive is s-bag w.e that means..

Wood Don

That post mentions the word racist profilling, but then it goes on and talks more about a class of people known as welfare class and blames the parents upbringing of the kids for the behavior of the kids. That is more of a blame the parents rant than it is racism!!! Am I the only one seeing that!!!!

When did urban become a race?

There are two ways to look at it 1. It's his face book page and he's entitled to it and his right to free speech 2. As a public servant in a position of leadership he should be smart enough to keep his somewhat biased opinion to himself !! He shoulda went with 2. LOL

@ Sally,

Suspending Navyvet98 for a week for calling someone a dipSTICK? I think your overtly liberal leanings are getting in the way of you being a fair, unbiased moderator...how many of these posts called someone a bigot or racist (or worse) and you didn't suspend them?

People don't say women who dress that way deserved to be raped. That's your standard liberal propaganda there.

But you can dress like a skeezer and head toward a dangerous part of town. I won't cry after you are attacked.

Hypothetical world vs. the real one. I know where the liberals live.

You contradicted yourself in your own post. You just tried to twist the words to make it sound like you weren't saying what you did say.

For all the constitutional law experts on this thread who continuously cite the first amendment protection of freedom of speech: Go to work, post a racist memo on the office/jobsite bulletin board where all of your co-workers can see it, count the minutes before you are fired. Oh, then try to retain legal representation. I will bet you ten thousand romney dollars you will be fired quickly and will spend infinitely more time searching for a lawyer who will take your case. How many cops or fire fighters do you think this genius had on his page? Utterly stupid move, Mr. Demoted Firebigot.

He did not use govt property and was not on govt property, unless you think he is govt property, typical socialist point of view. You socialists have quite a record making the world a better place Hitler,stallin,Mao, etc How many millions died?

Todd, I know this is a waste of time, but:

Mao was not a socialist, he was nominally a communist, but really a dictator. Ditto Stalin. Hitler was an anti-communist, just like Joe McCarthy - which is why in the early days he had some support amongst the conservatives both in this country and in England. He was also a bigot, like about half of the people posting here today. Millions died in Europe in the power struggle between a racist fascism and a dictatorship masquerading as communism.

Socialists have never been known for violence. They do not exist in America in any meaningful way today, but much of Northern Europe is now socialist. Sweden is the prime example. They have excellent, universal health care and job security, and yet, in spite of the lack of competition for capital, continue to lead the world in their research and development, particularly in terms of medical science. They also have more millionaires than most capitalist countries in the world (they are now fifth in the world in terms of per capita millionaires.)

So yes, socialists do have quite a record of making the world a better place.

Thanks for that post, Snakebone, also for that caveat, "I know this is a waste of time but..." Such a shame that with education cuts being in effect in most states for decades now, and the intentional dumbing-down of our "information society" the result is a voting age populace that suffers from terminal stupidity and anti-intellectualism, Your comment --- containing true facts, accurate history, critical thinking and common sense-- most likely will get the 5-mile stare.

Another waste of time but here it goes:

Facts are stubborn things

NAZI National SOCIALIST German Workers Party

USSR Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics

PRC Peoples Republic of China

I think you prefer to ignore the inconvenient truth about the Socialists use of deception to take power and commit horrible crimes. It is easier for you to revise history than to acknowledge the truth. But hey it worked for Stalin and Hitler

By the way I have a JD and a Masters in History, you loose.

Funny how people who call educated people 'elitist' always like to lie about their education level in order to impress.

If you were somehow (extremely unlikely) able to complete any kind of degree in history without realizing that the USSR and China were communist dictatorships, then you 'loosed'. Most 8th graders could tell you that. And I'll bet, even with our education failing us, that at least half of them could spell 'lose'.

Facts may be stubborn, but as you demonstrate, they are far too easily ignored. And that you offered none of your own speaks volumes. Masters indeed.

I knew it was a waste of time.

Hey Todd, a masters in history from Billy-Bob's School of Fishin' doesn't count!

Is it Socialist governments that ONLY commit horrible crimes? If you have a history degree your classes must have been in Propoganda Land.

Real history teaches that NO goverenment is infallible - in fact history teaches us the only thing that has changed are the names - all governments work the same: A class of people (usually a minority of some sort; wealth, religion, caste) ruling another class (the majority). The ruling class does what they want, the ruled do what they are told. Socialist, Capitalist, Communist - doesn't matter except for how much they are allowed to complain. Never has changed, never will.

People who don't understand history are doomed to repeat the errors. You don't like the fact that the horrible crimes committed in the last century have their foundation in socialist politics. Sorry I cant change that for you. you can try to rewrite history, as they did, to cover the tracks but the facts remain.

You notice I don't attack the person, I stay on point, to do otherwise is the sign of a loosing argument, like yours. I understand that the rules of this board require such decorum, but then again socialists do not respect the rights of individuals. Again, you prove my point.

Todd I don't need to attack you, your ignorance is demonstrated in your comments. Seriously, who gave you a JD with a major in history, Jonah Goldberg? What kind of lazy stupidity makes you write the comments you write. Oh, and to play your ignorant word association games: North Korea= Peoples Democratic Republic of Korea. Everyone knows and any history major worth his salt knows what the National Socialist German Workers Party Represented: NATIONAL socialism! Hitler even repeatedly TALKS about national socialism! not socialism! There was a socialist party in Germany: the SP and Hitler vociferously opposed them, the communist party and communism. He argued that socialism and communism were Jewish plots against Aryan, Christian society (he was known to have somewhat strong feelings toward Jews) and also made mention of Marx's Jewish identity. Seriously, if you're going to pretend you have some doctorate, I'd like to know who gave it to you so I can petition that it be stripped based upon the ignorance of your own discipline that you've shown here. Jonah Goldberg by the way, is NOT A SOURCE for history unless you have never read reviews of his book (by actual history professors) and its copious use of non-sequitors, pathetic attempts at guilt by association and repeated use of the "Hitler liked sugar, therefore...." trope of illogic. Todd I'd call you a troll and out you for lying about a "masters of history" but I figure Bob Jones has a U so who knows...oh, by the way, you ARE aware Bob Jones was a fan of Hitler, right? Yes...as you said, facts ARE stubborn things now back to the bunk, you are banished for idiocy.

I will go slow to give a you a chance to catch up

No word association games, just a literal interpretation of the initials known to most as USSR and NAZI . I didn't need to make them up. Anyone in doubt can look it up to see if its true.

You don't like the truth do you. Like your brother cockroaches trying to distort history ,you prefer the cover of darkness, Noticed you emerged from your hole at 1 AM, very fitting. Maybe you woke to the subliminal sound of the millions of victims of socialism screaming.

I know all you socialists want to take advantage of people who want a daddy to take care of them all their lives. How did Greenday put it, "evil always comes in disguise" I think? So you psychopathic murdering pricks promise you will take care of people if they sign their individual rights over to you and the fools fall for it every time. This is a very old story and even children can find it in Hansel and Gretel. Remember mice, the free cheese is right this way, pay no mind to that spring.