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Corpus Christi Police Dept. / AFP - Getty Images file
Carlos DeLuna was executed in 1989 for a crime a Columbia University Law School team believes was committed by another man named Carlos.
This spring, the editorial board at the Columbia Human Rights Law Review dedicated its final issue of the year to one article about two men named Carlos. Carlos DeLuna, the authors believe, was executed in Texas for a crime committed by Carlos Hernandez, who looked so much like him that one of their sisters confused the two in a photograph.
"Los Tocayos Carlos," which runs 451 pages and is available for free online, details the stabbing death of Wanda Lopez, a 24-year-old assistant manager at a gas station in Corpus Christi, Texas.
The article, which took six years, one professor and 12 students to produce, reads like a true-crime novel. It begins: “Wanda Lopez died at work at a Sigmor Shamrock gas station in Corpus Christi, Texas on February 4, 1983. She was twenty-four. Wanda’s only brother, Richard Vargas, heard her say her last words, but they gave him no solace or peace. They just made him angry.”
There were two Carloses in the vicinity that night. An eye witness to the crime identified Carlos DeLuna as the man who had wrestled with Wanda Lopez, even though his clothes did not match the witness' original description.
The law school team interviewed Carlos Hernandez's relatives, who revealed that on the day of the murder, before Carlos DeLuna was arrested, he told them that he had killed a woman named Wanda and that he felt badly about it. He said he didn't think he'd get caught.
Hernandez later told someone else that he had committed the murder and that "Carlos DeLuna took the fall."
Police told the Columbia investigators that Carlos DeLuna didn't have it in him to commit such a crime. DeLuna, a junior high drop out, had a low IQ and had been arrested for low-level crimes but was better known for huffing paint. Carlos Hernandez, by contrast, had raped children in the neighborhood and had been arrested for assaulting his wife with an ax handle, according to the Columbia University report.
Questioning how Carlos Hernandez, with his reputation, could have avoided scrutiny, the law school students and their professor discovered that Hernandez had been a police informant.
But not all police officers liked Carlos Hernandez -- their informants reported to them that Hernandez might have been to blame for other unsolved murders of Latina women.
California voters to consider ending capital punishment
The law school team strongly suggests that the case, beginning with Wanda Lopez's call to 911, was sloppily handled. A novice dispatcher took too long to send out a patrol car to the gas station where Wanda Lopez was knifed; the crime scene was immediately cleaned; investigators relied on one eye witness account.
Years down the road, the state assigned DeLuna an attorney who had never tried a major case in court, but who landed the job, the law school team suggests, because his father was politically connected.
In 1989, Carlos DeLuna was executed by lethal injection. His tocayo, or namesake, Carlos Hernandez, died in jail in 1999.
California vote could remove one quarter of nation's death row
In the introduction, the authors write: “Los Tocayos Carolos poignantly reveals how easily our legal system can fail to produce just outcomes even without the deliberate interference of individuals acting in bad faith and how the consequences of such failures can be irrevocable and at times, fatal.”
Columbia Law Professor James S. Liebman told the Guardian that what struck him most as he conducted his research was that the story was mundane.
"This wasn't the trial of OJ Simpson,” Liebman said. “It was an obscure case, the kind that could involve anybody. Maybe those are the cases where miscarriages of justice happen, the routine everyday cases where nobody thinks enough about the victim, let alone the defendant."
Watch the most-viewed videos on msnbc.com
The Columbia Human Rights Review piece recalls work by Northwestern University Professor David Protess and his students to exonerate innocent death row inmates. In 2000, Gov. George Ryan declared a moratorium on Illinois’ death penalty.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
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Oooops......
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Some of you need to read up on the crimes he has been convicted of, as well as his alibi that was proven to be false for that night and that he was found hiding under a truck near the gas station.
I guess some people will believe that the government is incapable of making a mistake regardless of the proof that's staring them right in the face.
I assume you've never broken a single solitary law in your entire life, right blu?...
There are truly some people in America whose last name is "Bendover," when it comes down to law enforcement, and goverment. They fear both so much, they believe anything they tell them to believe.
This blunder in Texas, very believable.
Because we all know, having a previous record and hiding near a crime scene means you're automatically guilty of THIS crime and should be put to death. Sorry Blu, it doesn't work that way.
www.caller.com/news/2012/may/16/those-closest-to-carlos-deluna-case-say-columbia/
read up people HE Was at the station involved in the robbery, some believe the person he was with was the one that killed the woman... either way If a death is involved in the commission of a felony under all states and federal laws you are also guilty of murder. So it does not matter who actually was the one that killed her, he was involved in the robbery, was found hiding under the truck nearby, had $149 in his pocket and his alibi was proven false.
This was said by DeLuna's own defense attorney DePena
Ya see, down here in Texass, we all hates the gubmint, 'cept when they kills off them non-white criminals. Shoot first and ask questions later (if at all) - that there is Texass justice!
What's been overlooked is that Texas has managed to murder some beaner named Carlos, maybe not the correct one, but a hangin's a hangin.
What makes it worse? It's gonna happen again.
Com'on, it's Texas, they don't even care if the wrong white person is executed, how much less for a Latino dude.
What if DNA evidence proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he was the murderer? This is nothing more than a blatent attack against the death penalty, there are plenty of cases where there is absolutely no doubt that the scumbag did it and no longer deserves to live.
@bluthunder
Don't bother, you're arguing with liberals. You can use facts and evidence all your want in a vane attempt to reason with them, but they will allow nothing to get in the way of their agenda.
While I am shocked and surprised that this could happen in the United States of America, I am neither shocked nor surprised that this happened in Texas.
Bluthunder... The felony murder rule that you refer to is not present in all 50 states as you say, does not always extend the murder conviction to the additional party in the states the rule applies, and has been deemed so draconian that it has been abolished in many other countries. Very few fully developed "first world" countries even have the death penalty anymore. Even in Texas, simply being there or knowing that a crime will be committed is not enough to charge someone under the felony murder rule. Look it up if you like. I found more than enough nformation online that makes that all very clear. Also, this is not a liberal vs conservative argument per se. I count myself firmly right middle and I don't agree with the death penalty. It's way too prone to error, stereotyping, and outright fallibility on the part of prosecutors and juries. Consider this... Nancy Grace was a DA once and she couldn't be anymore judge/jury/executioner style and was guilty of prosecutorial misconduct numerous times. Would you seriously trust a crazy nut like that asking juries for a death penalty?!
Love this quote fom the prosecutor in the case. This is from the article referenced earlier in this forum discussion..
Haha!! Those vicious anti death penalty bastards!!
Killing in the name of laws - what happened to the good old days when they killed in the name of religion?
Lol, gotta love all the morons spouting off ignorance about Texas every single time the state is mentioned in a story. Looking at you Robert.
Looking right back at you, Andy. If you really love ignorant morons (your choice of words) you undoubtedly spend a lot of time admiring your own reflection in the mirror.
FYI: The state of Texas each year puts to death nearly as many human beings as all of the other 49 states of the Unites States combined. One state, nearly half of the total annual executions in the US.
I repeat, I am neither shocked nor surprised that this happened in Texas; and you of course are welcome to your own opinion.
As I have posted numerous times in the past.... you can't have such an ultimate punishment with anything less than a perfect justice system. We don't have a justice system free from error.... This is shown all to often in cases where the individual was released after spending many years to decades on death row. I highly doubt we catch all our mistakes before it is too late. Especially when some states have horrid access to DNA testing for those convicted....
What is scary about this is that in Texas they simply do not care who they put to death for a crime!! As long as they get their "fix" by taking life from another human then they are content, almost exactly the same as a junkie who has been jonesing for some smack and then scores a fat sack and gets their fix on!!
The only way that it could get better for them is if they could have freedom to get creative in the manner in which they dispatch the condemned! I fully believe that there would be climax everywhere if they could throw someone, who is awake and kicking/screaming begging for their life, head first into a brush chipper or a pit of burning hot coals!!!
Ya know? The possibility of executing the wrong guy can be a troubling matter. But considering what some murderers engage in, and just how blatant some of it is, I'm no longer opposed to the death penalty... Some people really are that bad; where putting an end to things might also save lives, and arguably be a mercy unto itself against the alternatives... It isn't like maximum security prison, and getting gang raped by Bubba for 40 years would be all that great either ;)
Have question? Consider some people like Zarchawi, and take a look at the video that was online for a time of the beheading of Nick Berg. What was done there made the gillotine used in the French revolution look humane by comparison and took the whole matter to a whole new level of barberism. They sawed the guy's head off, you could even hear when his vocal chords got cut. Now I don't speak Arabic so can't say exactly what the words were, but it sounded like some sort of religious thing of human sacrifice almost, before they pinned his head on his back; as they went about in their hoods. One woulda thought that sort of thing would have ended when some people in distant human history used to throw people down volcanoes, sacrificing them to the gods, in acts of human sacrifice...
Then you get people like the Menendez brothers, Adolph Hitler, and in historic past Ganges Khan... It really does give one pause to consider that there are some, who really are quite bad as far as people go; and perhaps beyond redemption... In any case, if anything can be done to turn them around, it seems beyond human hands. It's a lot easier to just throw the death penalty out, when one doesn't have to face this aspect from some people who have lived in our midst, and when one begins to consider there might be some things worse then death itself. Unfortunately, I don't think we live in a world where all are well intentioned, or to put it bluntly not "willfully 'evil' ".
This doesn't mean howeer, that people should't endevor to do the best work wrt forensic science we are capeabe of, to prevent such suggested tragedies from occuring. It's just to say that sometimes one has to weigh things, including the life of the individual in question, against the backdrop of other lives... Nor would such always be an easy choice...
Nuadormrac - "The possibility of executing the wrong guy can be a troubling matter"?!?!?! What if its you we mistakenly execute. Damn that sure is troubling, my bad, oops.
Your comments are EXACTLY why the death penalty must be abolished. Your blithe acceptance that its perfectly okay that a couple of innocent people die while those forensic scientists are doing "their best" is unacceptable. The mere fact that the state kills its own citizens is reprehensible, but for you to think that its okay that the state murder innocent people in an attempt to keep you safe is appalling. If the state is going to take upon itself this ultimate, final authority to execute its citizens, it must ensure with absolute certainty that only the guilty are executed. Given that it cannot do this - the state must abandon this barbaric practice.
Also, not to mention that the difference between the death penalty and life in jail without the possibility of parole is not a difference in safety....
Nuadormrac - You are helping anti-capital punishment arguments. We have a plenty imperfect legal system where either DNA evidence or recants by witnesses or even exposed cases of "railroading" have shown people to have been wrongly executed. These people may not have been saints but they were not guilty of the crime they were put to death for. And once someone is dead, well, that's hard to reverse. Life in prison without possibility of parole makes more sense because even that sentence typically, if not always (check your local listings), allows for new evidence to be brought forward at any time to prove wrongful conviction. Also, you're not looking to rehabilitate so much in that situation because they are not expected to ever be back amongst society anyway. The most harm that comes from keeping the person in prison is 1) the victim's family/friends still have to think about that person they are certain committed the crime and perhaps can't feel closure and 2) extremely rare possibility of prison escape. Incorrectly putting someone to death, even if they otherwise aren't such a great person, is still wrong. The odds are certainly low for wrongful execution but it's not like it's one in a million either. The odds are, to me, seemingly a bit too high for something so absolutely permanent when a very reasonable alternative exists.
andy, since all that texas puts out is ignorance that's all they'll get back.
devillle both of your posts were laughable - offering nothing but your poorly reasoned poorly spellled and completely unfounded opinion in one and a blanket attack on Liberals in the other. If they had tested your DNA after the murder the headlines would have read, "Woman knifed by Chimp."
to some extent this.
I am against the death penalty in cases where there is ANY uncertainty AT ALL, and mostly because scores of innocent men and women have been executed by our government throughout the decades.
That being said, however, this case is a fairly poor example to make the case against the death penalty with. Carlos De Luna was no saint and was almost certainly involved in the crime he was executed for, even if he, himself, did not perform the stabbing.
Far more innocent people have been put to death by the State of Texas than Carlos De Luna
Gov. Bush screwed up again?
All of the facts have not been presented properly. The murderer was white with hispanic heritage. This changes everything
Oh no, I hope we don't run out of Hispanics in Texas.
@Blu
If you are involved in a crime and a murder happens, you can be found guilty of murder. However, you will not be given the death sentence. Pretty big difference.
'Nuadormrac' wrote:
REPLY: Question: How could "executing the wrong guy" (i.e., planning and wrongfully taking the life of an innocent person for a crime they did not commit) be defined as anything other than "premeditated murder, ... by the state"? You say "troubling"? Wow. Ya think?
How could any civilized state or nation justify or dismiss such an abhorrent act?
Pigotry: I'm no W. fan but let's do try for accuracy here. The governor when this man was executed in 1989 was Bill Clements, not GWB.
Robert, the high rate of executions in Texas isn't lost on me; that isn't what I take issue with. What's annoying are comments such as "Texas doesn't care if they kill innocents." When you said you aren't surprised Texas may have killed an innocent man, it makes it seem like the state blindly kills anyone. It's still a lengthy process with several appeal stages, and this helps ensure we have the right person. This guy was involved in the robbery, and the only fact in dispute is whether or not he was the trigger man. In Texas (and in several other states), all involved parties in a robbery are subject to murder charges if someone is killed during the robbery.
5 words! You SCREWED UP Big Time!
The State of TEXASS owes this Man's Family, BIG TIME!
LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAW SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT!
My Sincerest and Deepest Condolences to this man's family!
What? The state of Texas executing the wrong man? Ha! Doesn't happen, george bush told us so.
It's not just the inmates in Texas who are killers, the state is too. They run a execution mill.
I frankly think of it as a form of human sacrifice. They know they're executing innocent people, but will continue to contentedly execute innocent people for the sake of occasionally executing a guilty person. Tell me again how we've advanced as a civilization...
Get in a hurry and you'll mess up every time. Executions, church homecomings, and preteen girls beauty contests are the great passtimes of most of the people of that state. Oh well, everyone has their own peculiarities.
#Mac Forrester: Some of us actually do have other 'passtimes' here in Texas. We read, as well, but of course a lot us have to trace the words out with our fingers and read aloud, but we manage if we go slowly. Be that as it may, the execution of an innocent man is a tragedy anywhere, and here in the U.S. it does probably happen more in Texas than in other states. However, in many places elsewhere, likewise run by the overly-zealous religious right and the poorly educated, we see the same disregard for minority human rights as in Texas. Regrettably, in far too many places in our country, an unborn white fetus has a better chance of survival than a poor brown man accused of murder.
This shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody that has lived in Texas. In so many ways they still think their living in the nineteenth century. Just looking at the politicians they elect pretty much says it all.
@DS Jackson #2.4: Touche'. Regards
@jackson, I feel the pain... but I also left that 28th state of confusion - the friendship state?, for a more progressive, colorful, newer state. As far as the unborn fetus comment, I'd like to point out that in Texas, "Women seeking an abortion... will have to view a picture of the embryo or fetus and hear a description of its development before having the procedure, under a law that takes effect September 1, 2011." So you're correct, Texan unborn fetuses enjoy more rights than a guy named Carlos. Work on that will you?
gloria,
everything is bigger in Texas including the screw ups.
What we need is another law, one that requires juries to witness a complete, unedited video of an execution before they sentence anyone to that same fate. And, then require that they attend that execution, too.
Maybe Texas should have a waiting period of at least 10 years before killing anyone. Just to give themselves time to make damn sure they have the right Carlos. Rick Perry and his cohorts will have a higher judge to answer to and I don't think they are on the same page. What part of thou shalt not kill do they not understand. Yes Texas it applies to you too! In God's eyes you are a killer as well!
Mac Forester, what have you been reading? Getting together and talking about how to oppress people who are different than them is way more popular than .... Oops, my apologies, you've got it, "Church Homecomings". However, watching bug-zappers with a case of beer IS way more popular than preteen beauty pageants. My in-laws got a new low voltage model. It takes longer for them to fry.
He was executed almost 25 yrs ago, which means the crime was probably committed in the 1970s. Back then they didnt have DNA evidence. Now we do..
Im sure if you go back another 100 yrs, you can find a few more innocents that were executed. So stop acting like this happened yesterday and get life fanatics!!!
For a moment there I was worried that they executed Carlos Santana by mistake... what a relief it was another Carlos...
But seriously folks... to claim that they mistook a Joe for another Joe in a death penalty case smells like a total BS.
Max: that's the problem down there in Texas, they have so much BS, it has invaded the justice system and the governor's office for years.
The problem with using a death penalty is that it really is so final. "Better nine guilty men go free than one innocent man be convicted." Blackstone. Particularly when the punishment is death.
Carlos Horhe, Miguel??, They all look alike to a Texan plus there is not a shortage of them coming over the boarder......
"They all look alike to a Texan." Are they coming "over the 'boarder'" or where most Latinos already here? Imbecile. You spell it border not boarder stupid.
Sorry supporters of the death penalty, it will not be the liberal masses who take capital punishment away from you, but rather the cases where people on death row are exonerated with DNA evidence and wrongfully executed families suing the suites off of your prosecutors.
As far as I am concerned, the best way to ensure that states with capital punishment do not wrongfully execute someone is to have a investigation after every execution of holes in the cases. If it's found through evidence or lack of consistency that someone was wrongfully executed- the family of the deceased gets an automatic 50 million from the state AND the lead prosecutor is fired.
That way supporters have their death penalty, and prosecutors and state will actually ensure that only cut and dry cases where there is no question of guilt will become capital cases. Remember Casey Anthony- had the prosecutors not tried for a capital case, there would have been a greater probability on circumstantial evidence that she would have actually done jail time, and to me, that's better than probabtion.
There are no mistaken executions in Texas.
Texas wanted to kill someone - so Texas did just that. Now it appears that Texas will have the opportunity to kill someone else.
The only bad thing about 'Old Testament Justice' - is - that God is the final judge.
Ya think? Considering there have only been 1295 executions in the US since 1976 and 482 of those took place in Texas...
I'm sure this was not the first and definitely will not be the last. Did ANYONE seriously think that all those that have been executed in this country were ALL GUILTY?
@Sam The article said the girl was murdered in 1984.. Not sure if they had DNA science down to an art, but it's still only 5 years from the time of the act to the actual execution..which begs the question: How thorough of a case was this, when most cases themselves take years to even build and go to trial?
I'm for the death penalty if 100% positive proof is given that the defendant is actually guilty. Any probable cause, the death penalty needs to be removed from the table.
First off, I am a Texan and a Republican, and I am against the death penalty, mostly because of the way the system works. The prosecutors want to get a 100% conviction rate and are more interested in getting a conviction for their political career than they are in determining if the person is really guilty. They could care less if some Innocent person is sent to the execution chamber or life in prison as long as they get the credit for sending them there. The judges want to be seen as tough on crime so they hand down stiff sentences when the evidence may not warrant it. The cops want to get credit for taking criminals off the street whether they are the actual perpetrators or not, they will just claim "we just arrest them and the courts convict them", so they get credit for solving the big case, and that is just bull5hit. The juries, they believe most of the BS that the cops, prosecutors, and judges say, because they are naive and believe in the justice system. Finally, if you are poor or middle class and you get charged you are just screwed because of the cost of legal fees, and getting a public defender is a fast track to a conviction.
Down there as long as they convict a minority and hang them case closed.
Breadex, I don't think it has anything to do with minorities. They will pin it on anyone they can, just to get credit for an arrest and a conviction. It has more to do with wealth than race, if you are wealthy, they will likely pick an easier target.
Texas has a sickening reputation for injustice inflicted by its justice system.
As well as laughing and applauding at them, at certain nationalized debates.
You can't use mistake as a defense to murder. Isn't that what the law holds? So why aren't we prosecuting all these criminals in Texas supporting the killing of innocent people?
So if Texas executed an innocent person - can we put Texas on trial and impose the death penalty on Texas? Just curious. They seem to think we could. An eye for an eye is what they say.
I wonder what those people say - the ones who always justify killing a human being with "an eye for an eye" So whose eye are we going to take for killing an innocent man?
I missed the fine print on the 5th commandment. It must say "unless you're from Texas".
He looks like he would have wound up there anyway. Our laws arn't perfect, but they get the message accross. LOL
Yeah--if your skin is the wrong color, your life isn't worth jack. Who cares if we execute innocent people, right? Maybe you ought to be the next one falsely arrested in a capital case just to see if you can walk the walk...
BINGO! Conjuring Cat!
You are a sick person and most likely a criminal yourself. You should be watched.
Joseph, shame on you for such insipid remarks. It is obvious that you are a racist. What I cannot tell is if you are plain old stupid.
Oh well. Sh!t happens.
If he was still down in Meh-kee-ko, his life would be worth even less. I don't hear you libtards crying about that.
Don: "If he was still down in Meh-kee-ko, his life would be worth even less. I don't hear you libtards crying about that"
Are YOU crying about that, Don?
No further argument needed to abolish the death penalty.
abolish? kevin u dip stick its the only way to get rid of inbred vermin. this time we got two for the price of one. what a deal. they were both just wasting good air.. liberal
ken...for once I am speechless. I can only hope that the community will collapse your incredibly cruel comment as soon as possible.
and to think that I spent 15 yrs of my life defending your right to express such a bigotted opinion...
Still up,and kevin in my time in the Infantry we were required to learn how to spell.
Obviously, you slept during the thinking portion of the deal...
Agreed Kevin.
You can put up any argument for, or against, the death penalty. But when it comes right down to it, the execution of just ONE innocent person (and it may, or may not, have been THIS one), should be enough to say -- STOP!
We are about the only non-totalitarian country in the world (if not the ONLY one) that still has a death penalty.
ken, you're a real piece of work. You're the epitome of ignorance and intolerance. You're part of the problem, yet you think of yourself as part of the solution. I read about a man who held a view similar to yours, if not identical. His name was Adolf Hitler.
No wonder our college kids are not able to get jobs they are studying the death of someone that occurred 23 years ago, not only that if we are to believe what they found, the true shooter in the crime died 7 years later. This has no value to try and show that the Carlos put to death, who was proved to have helped commit the crime his being an accessory to the crime beit just the theif puts him in as much guilt as the shooter. He was not innocent so nothing lost with his death and the shooter himself died in jail seven years later. These college students should ask for their money back for this worthless class and the Professor fired for waste of resources and college students money.
Oh and we're all supposed to kiss your f'cking ass over that?
'Taint happening, pal..
Texas needs to keep tryin' 'em an fryin' 'em. The more the better.
if inbred vermin was the target there would be no texans.
But they ain't, so you're fu'ked.
lol...
As Rick Perry would say " He did something" !
Don't feed the trolls.
You say that til one day it is YOU that is the innocent being tried and you can't get out of it, what then?
Then I'll have you save me.
lol... lol...
Azlan: "No wonder our college kids are not able to get jobs they are studying the death of someone that occurred 23 years ago, etc."
Well, Jesus Christ was executed unjustly over 2,000 years ago--and they're are some still studying his death.
Don: "Then I'll have you save me.
lol... lol...
You won't be laughing out loud if you are NOT saved by us.
You will!
You will!
~
You will!
You will!
lol... :D
The truth of a miscarriage of justice is never without value. It is clear that you will never understand that, however.
Sweet Jesus, ken, you seriously don't care about executing INNOCENT PEOPLE? "Two for the price of one?" Filthy and disgusting attitude, one that's inherently incompatible with any civilized society. You literally make me sick...
Kenny likes to polish his SS insignias, loves America, at leased the white part of it, and votes Republican this is the kind of ignorant moron that makes up a large part of Texas.
Ken's concept of Morals is OBTUSE!
Right Kenny? I bet you don't even know what Obtuse means!Eh Kenny?
Well, I'm surprised he had time to post here after spending years of his life at Stormfront...
@xmarine: at leased?
golliegeewillikers, I'm so f_ucking glad you made an effort to point out the felonious spelling of the word 'least'. You must be filled with wonder and awe when you look in a mirror, knowing in your heart and soul that you are a prime example of perfection.
Conjuring Cat,
You do realize that the in the State of Texas after conviction, the mere finding of innocence later is not enough to overturn that original conviction! That is Texas law in practice.
Imagine now, that this is or was your son or daughter who was wrongfully convicted. Don't say it cannot happen it has happened, and only once is once too often.
The cure is of course in the case of prosecutorial misconduct or another unlawful way of convicting someone who is not guilty of the crime they are being tried for, is to prosecute those miscreants, with the same ultimate punishment as the original crime. This is where the punishment will suit the crime. It would certainly curtail the use of the death penalty. And to those who we, as society judge not worthy to continue living, can find some comfort.
When someone is subject to the death penalty that persons life is forfeit to us the rest of society, not some imaginary "them".
Sully-
Its not just Texas!
Here is the sad opinion of two members of the US Supreme Court..."This Court has never held that the Constitution forbids the execution of a convicted defendant who has had a full and fair trial but is later able to convince a habeas court that he is “actually” innocent. Quite to the contrary, we have repeatedly left that question unresolved, while expressing considerable doubt that any claim based on alleged “actual innocence” is constitutionally cognizable."
Instead of a constitutional amendment that bans same-sex marriage, we should have one that bans executing innocent people.
And I'll bet these a-ols yelling "kill-em", go to church on sunday and PRETEND to be good people.
Yup ken, I'm talking about you and others like you.
Oh, Tumbleweed, don't you know that Teh Liddle Baby Jayzus just loves executing innocent people--especially if they're a little melanin-enhanced...
Didn't see a single word in the article suggesting the religion of anyone involved. Nice to see that never stops prejudiced people from jumping to conclusions. As a Christian, I am against the death penalty since it denies a person there entire life to reflect and perhaps change.
GCB!
No no no, Kevin, didn't you get the Faux Noose memo? You're the bigot for pointing out kenny-boy's bigotry...
It's Texas, if your name is Carlos, Juan or anything sounding "non white" you are fair game in the legal death machine.
Well, what can I say, Cat? Even the F-ups are bigger in Texas...
If there were fewer illegal invaders the legally here Hispanics and American-Hispanic citizens wouldn't have a lot of the problems they have. They should be fighting to protect our country also by trying to keep the millions of illegal invaders out.
That said, if any of the people in the prosecution of this fellow are still alive, they should be prosecuted for negligence.
One word. TEXAS.
I would absolutely LOVE for texas to secede. If texas could take arizona, and some of the other fundamentalist, red, republican states with it, that would be great. Intelligent people are sick of republicans, we kind of need them to go ahead and move to Canada, or Mexico - they have just decimated America morally, fiscally and in regards to our national security.
It would be better,that way they could charge you more for their oil.
How did that Maxine Waters bank deal turn out by the way?
Hey, golliegee, I don't think you got the memo, but their oil would go on THE WORLD OIL COMMODITIES MARKET just like always! Do you get all your talking points from Faux Noose?...
Canada isn't interested. The territory belonged to Mexico originally, so I vote they go back to Mexico.
@golliestupidname
somehow I think the oil they sell us will always be cheaper than the water we sell them.
@Conjuring... you do know how "faux" is pronounced, right?
Who cares, one less to worry about while out walking.
Yeah, after all, all those blahhh people look the same, right?...
Yea Dave, except for a big glaring fact that people seem to miss in these cases when they say they don't care if the wrong person goes to jail or is killed, when that happens the actual murderer goes free and is able to murder more people.
Well this should be a lesson,don't jump the fence America is a dangerous country.
Better off to stay in your own paisa.
Yeah, because everyone named Carlos just has to be an illegal, right? Brilliant...
The odds are with it.
Bet you're white, golliegee--what are the odds you're a serial killer, since nearly all of them are white males? But hey, they're just sp!<s, right, so who cares about them? Not like they're humans, after all, huh?...
Got any gollie gee wiz facts to back up that claim or just more stereotyping? What would you say if you were told Carlos DeLuna was born in El Paso, Texas making him a US citizen just like you?
He wouldn't believe it, Al, because everybody KNOWS all Hispanics are illegals. Just ask golliegee...
Wikipedia says DeLuna was born in Corpus Christi. Oh, the power of the internet.
golliegee, Your punctuation and sentence structure leave something to be desired.
Jesus Christ had dark skin (middle eastern) and was executed unfairly by capital punishment.
Right cat. And they'll just make more anyway. LOL
People see all the things that they can do on shows like CSI or NCIS and think they make that type of effort all the time. Not even close, most murders are barely scrutinized and once they have a suspect they think they can convict they move on to the next one. Articles that critisize the investigation or lack of one on the Treyvon Martin case don't understand that's the norm not the exception.
Add to that the pressure on elected DAs to keep up conviction rates, which drives them to put greater emphasis on getting the conviction than getting justice...
Canada doesn't need or want anyone from Texas. The most hideous people on earth
Bob - comments like that just show your ignorance. I find it amusing how people like to act like they know so much. Your comment actually just makes me laugh its so ridiculous!
What do you clowns have against Texas? This message board is full of the self righteous that blame the police, justice system, and the State of Texas for this tragedy when the real culprits family were told by him that he had killed this gal. The executed guy's own sister was confused because the two Carlo's looked so much alike. Why don't you rail against the family members that let this poor guy lose his life knowing he didn't do it? No Justice No Peace even blames it on Republicans. Intelligent people see right through that crap.
i live in this state and have the right to criticize it all i want! Republicans run this state, so they get to take the wrap for all their disgusting vile double standards, hypocrisy, lies, and the horrors of the Texas Department of In-justice!
It's not just about this legal case, it's that Texas has a history of being populated with bigoted, ignorant people who like being that way and want to make everyone else be like them.
I was married to a Texan once. I sent him back.
I lived in Texas back in the late 60's and early 70's. It wasn't any worse than anyplace else I've ever lived. Being a Marine Corps lifer's brat, we moved to a different state every 3-years. Lived in Southern California, North and South Carolina, Tennessee, and Hawaii. I lived in Alabama while in the Army and my daughter was born in Fort Worth, Texas when I was there in the Army. I've lived here in Hawaii most of the rest of my life and hands down, it's the best. Not because of the liberal politics, but for the beauty and weather. Democrats have run this state for 4-decades and like most other states suffering under their leadership, such as New York, Massachusets, Illinois, and California, we are the most taxed citizens in the country. All I can say is I didn't witness any more bigotry in Texas than any of the other states I lived in. But this thread is full of liberal bigots and they come in all colors. Just read the comments.
Yeah, I'm such an obvious bigot because I object to seeing innocent people executed for crimes they didn't commit! Geez, get your schnozz out of Faux Noose once in a while, willya?...
Charle - guess who sounds like a bigot now?
Lanikai, let me explain one thing about Texas. It has among the most ridiculous evidentiary laws in the USA. It also has one of the most broken forensics labs in the entire world. The number of cases that have to be overturned is far in excess of almost all of the other states. Oh and please, cut the crap about liberals. Nice try, but history simply isn't on your side. The Democrats you site, were Dixiecrats and if you had studied history in any other state than Texas, you would have learned that the Dixiecrats were a hard right and by the late 70s had virtually all switched to the Republican Party.
If there is any prejudice against Texas, it is entirely self-inflicted. Texan politicians and public figures have spent several decades lecturing other Americans and wrapping themselves in the flag. As a result, the rest of the USA is tired of their pontification, while their own house is demonstratably a shambles, ie., executing a innocent man. Perhaps you have something to say on that topic, rather than running off on a crusade to protect your beloved Texas AND conservatism.
Ron, did you ever stop to think that the reason you didn't experience any more bigotry in Texas than you did anywhere else is because you are white? I grew up in Alabama and didn't experience any bigotry there either, until I joined the Army and moved away for over 10 years. I went back on Emegency leave to my hometown because my dad was in a car crash. I was talking to a guy who was the father of someone I went to school with. When he found out I was in the Army he asked "What did I think the Army needed to do about it's Ni@@er problem."
Obviously, none of us knows for sure if the authors of this article are right or if the legal system in Texas was correct. However, a mistake by the authors doesn't result in the loss of life by an innocent person. A mistake by the legal system in a capital case can...and may well have this time.
I think most people realize that there almost surely have been innocent parties put to death by the legal system at one time or another.
The fact that a mistake can't be undone is just one of many reasons for ending the death penalty. How long will it take before this country eliminates capital punishment?
I hate it for Carlos.
I also hate that his sister is blind.
But, don't knock Texas.
You kill there, you will be killed.
The death penalty has a very legitimate purpose.
To rid the wold of scum.
And, apparently, VR, sometimes you get killed even if you don't kill there. But hey, no prob, right? Who cares about executing innocent people just as long as we get a few guilty ones, too?...
Then why isn't gov good hair on death row?
Innocent people get Murdered every day, don't they???
So that justifies the state doing it, too? I surely hope you NEVER have political power ANYWHERE or ANY TIME, with such a sickening attitude...
VR- your post seems to represent the thinking of many people who can't, or won't, deal with the real complexity of some issues. Sadly, this is common among conservative/Tea Party supporters. Reacting from anger leads to all kinds of tragedies, like 4,000 dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq based on a false reason to start a war- or, executing the wrong person. Like the fundamentalist who says "The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it", many conservatives want simplistic answers in a complex world. If government officials actively pursue the death penalty in a high number of cases , like they do in Texas, those same officials have a legal and moral obligation to make sure they're killing the right person. Conservatives love to bash government as arrogant and wasteful, but look the other way when government officials arrogantly waste money, and creditibility, by killing the wrong person.
Viewer_Ready - It would seem you will be killed whether you killed or not...the whole point of the article.
Did you miss that?
Seriously? So because people are murdered, if someone kicks in your door and kills your family...that's OK?
How soon will we hear cries of "that can't happen today" from the capital punishment defenders as if we've reached an apex of technology or reform that prevents innocent people from being executed. When people were pushing for CP to be reinstated they insisted no innocent people would be executed. Well they were wrong and I want to know if they are going to accept responsibility for being wrong.
Haven't you been reading above, Alverant? These people don't care that we're executing innocent people. They're already on here basically saying that anyone of Hispanic origin is already a criminal, so executing them for crimes they don't commit is perfectly okay, since they'll do something to warrant it someday anyhow. I wonder if their tunes would change if they were the ones being convicted of a capital crime they didn't commit...
Conjuring - Considering the story in the news that minority births are now outpacing majority births and the overall changing demographics...they might live to see that come to pass.
Take heart Tex@ss !!!
Just because you finish last, or near the bottom, in every quality of life category measured by the civilized world..
There's no reason you can't lead the nation in at least ONE category!!
executions, and don't forget, teen pregnancies and number of uninsured...
Now let's be fair, kids--they also lead in the number of Carl's Jr. franchises...
not to defend texass but, MS is first in teen pregnancy.
Texas: Kill and be killed according to Viewer. Is that civilized? Is it Just. Does it make one as bad as the other? And who is scum?
Texas is known for its frontier law, or rather, lawlessness...especially if the suspect is darker than white, poor, mentally ill or retarded, they are at much greater risk of being executed...in fact, the bias cannot be seen in how capital cases are actually decided, but is quite evident in every stage of law enforcement preceding trial: in the investigation, arrest, and pre-hearing phases...that was the conclusion came to by the authors of a great book entitled The Rope, the Chair and the Needle. Worse, Texans don't CARE about the wrong people getting murdered by the state. They are so righteous in their own minds, so convinced of their right to judge others, they could care less how many prisoners are let out of Death Row by DNA evidence, (proving how inaccurate and unjust the system is). But it doesn't matter how much evidence you throw at them, nor how many times atrocities occur: they simply deny, or they just don't care. They know it won't happen to them, and that is all that matters. Of course, Texas prides itself on being a "Christian" state. I bet they would've executed Jesus, who was also falsely accused...
If you fry as many people as Texas does of course you're going to screw up occasionally.
It's all in the name of Justice right?
Yep, except it's not justice since the actual killers get to go on murdering people.
The death sentence is needed more than ever in this country. We bomb women and children in wars but are to weak kneed to put muderers to death in our own country. The trouble is there are too damned many stays of execution. They should be taken from the courtroom to the Gas Chamber. Of course "Political Correctness" is the biggest problem with death sentences being carried out.
Brilliant--the solution to wrongful executions is to have more executions faster? I wonder if you'd change your tune if you were the one wrongfully convicted...
just wait till it happens to you. don't forget: you will reap what you sow!
Tarzan yep, take them from the courtroom to the gas chamber. Just like this guy and execute the wrong person. Is that what you want? Hope you never get arrested, you will be in deep squat.
Speak for yourself, verno--it would be karmic justice on a grand scale if every one of these knuckle-draggers found themselves staring at an execution chamber for something they didn't commit. I for one would like to see how many would stick with their "it's okay to execute a few innocents" attitude then...
Politically correct= insisting on "spokesperson" instead of "spokesman"
Evil= not caring about innocent people being executed.
"Politically correct" has become the most meaningless term in our discourse. It now refers to any concern for anyone else's human rights.
Tarzan7 - I haven't figured out yet whether you are a "troll" or just a rock with lips...keep typing, I'll get it yet.
Just one of the many reasons capital punishment doesn't work...it is inhumane, ineffective, and there is no reversing the decision after the government has murdered the wrong person.
cwittel...
That is, unless he murdered your sister and then maybe you wouldn't be so smug about it !! But more important, If your man enough to do the crime.. you should be man enough to face what's coming to you!! Capital Punishment is the ultimate payback for a proven hardcore criminal, and the ultimate justice for it's victims. To have bleeding hearts like you try to defeat it because it didn't happen to you or because of your personal convictions, is another form of injustice towards every victim of murder and their families. If the families want to forgive, then let it be them to decide anonymously, and not leave it to idiots like YOU !!!!
Big Lou- hard to imagine anything more painful and tragic than having a loved one murdered. The desire for retribution is understandable. But, one of the reasons we have a system of laws is to prevent "frontier justice" - precisely because it can so often lead to mistakes like the one in this case. Because some people with very conservative views have taken a lot of power in Texas, the state remains reactionary in its social and legal policies. There is a way for families and loved ones to get some relief- Restorative Justice brings offenders and survivors together when the offender accepts responsibility for the crime. Many families who have participated in Restorative Justice have found a degree of peace as a result. In any case, the State of Texas has become Reactionary Right Wing Central- very much by design of a group of businessmen and politicians who created policies as far back as the 90s to draw conservative power to Texas. And guess what- we get "W" as our faux president- and Cheney as the de facto president. Also, textbooks across the nation are shaped by Texas politics because the state orders so many books that publishers can't afford to defy conservatives who push for false science and information to be included in texts. Overall, the country is harmed by Texan social and political beliefs-