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Subscribe to RSSSome downtown Chicago businesses are taking extra steps for security, including boarding up ahead of expected anti-NATO protests. WMAQ's Jeff Goldblatt reports.
As world leaders gather for the NATO summit in Chicago this weekend, they will be welcomed by thousands of protesters with a litany of complaints. Chief among them: Stop spending money on war and use it to rebuild recession-hit communities instead.
Protesters already have taken to the streets over a number of causes in the week leading up to the summit, including the shuttering of local schools and the loss of homes through foreclosures, and they stormed the building that houses the headquarters of President Obama’s campaign.
But they’re planning larger rallies and marches in the days to come, one to call for a “Robin Hood” tax on certain Wall Street transactions and another led by anti-war activists where a group of 9/11-era veterans plan to return their service medals to protest the "war on terror."
“We’re seeking to show how the policies and the money that goes to NATO trickles down to hurt people in every community in America and especially in Chicago,” said Rachael Perrotta, a 32-year-old receptionist and a member of the press team for Occupy Chicago, one of the two main groups organizing the protests. “Over 800 million in U.S. tax dollars goes to fund NATO each year and our country is crumbling. Here in Chicago, they’re closing schools, they’re closing health clinics and we’re saying that we need our money to stay here to fund services in this country, not to go overseas to kill people on the other side of the world.”
NATO, or the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, consists of 28 member nations, including the United States. NATO members have deployed alongside the United States in the Afghan war and NATO led last year’s military action in Libya.
Chicago has assigned 3,100 officers to NATO's two-day summit to guard against the kind of violence that broke out in the streets of Seattle at the World Trade Organization meeting in 1999. They will be assisted by hundreds of officers from other cities such as Milwaukee, Philadelphia and Charlotte-Mecklenburg, N.C., NBCChicago.com reported, and the city has warned of massive travel disruptions.
The city also has imposed limits on how close the protesters, which include dozens of unions and anti-war, environmental, education, healthcare and civil liberties’ groups, can get to the convention center where the summit is being held -- within “sight and sound” of it, according to the Chicago Tribune -- raising the ire of the demonstrators.
“We’ve had an 11-month fight with the city and with the federal authorities for our right to protest against war and greed, and it’s come down to these days of protests,” which will give people an “opportunity to express their voices as part of this movement,” said Joe Iosbaker, an organizer with the Coalition Against NATO/G8 War & Poverty Agenda (CANG8), the other main group organizing the protests.
Archive video: Look back at the calamitous 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago
The National Lawyers Guild, which said it was sending out legal observers to the demonstrations and aiding those who were arrested, said late Thursday that at least 20 people have been arrested so far this week, and two people were still in custody.
The American Civil Liberties Union has released guidelines for protesters to consider under a new federal law that it said has “expanded the ability of the Secret Service to suppress protests” near people under its protection. But a spokesman for the group also said Wednesday that McCormick Place had agreed to let protesters put literature and multimedia materials in the center during the meetings, the Tribune reported.
Gary Gerstle, a professor of American history and an expert in social movements at Vanderbilt University, said the protests were reminiscent of those against corporate power in the late 1990s, including the ones targeting the WTO meeting in Seattle.
Jim Young/Reuters
Chicago police prevent protesters from placing furniture in front of a bank Thursday, ahead of the NATO summit in Chicago.
“This had quite a lot of momentum in the late ‘90s,” he said. “And then the intervention of Sept. 11 just killed that movement -- not permanently -- but it made its goals seem secondary in relationship to what most people in the world were worrying about, which was terrorism, not forms of international corporate exploitation.”
“But it would be foolish to think that that stuff just died,” he added. “And I think we’re beginning to see some of it come back.”
Todd Gitlin, a former leader of the 1960s-era group Students for a Democratic Society and a sociology and journalism professor, noted the high degree of organization and advance planning that had gone into the NATO summit protests. But he cautioned that Occupy and its satellite groups need to come up with “tangible results” rather than demonstrations that will play “as more of the same.”
“What it (Occupy) already has done is big, but diminishing returns will set in if what materializes now is simply one demonstration after another,” he said. “They’ve already accomplished the bulk of what they can accomplish by way of changing the atmosphere. The atmosphere has changed. Now they have to produce tangible results in order to evolve.”
US veterans to return war medals in protest
But Iosbaker said protesting was the only thing that worked to create change, citing the civil rights and anti-nuclear movements as well as Occupy.
“We are just another link in that chain but we’ve already won specific things,” he said, citing the decision to move the G8 meeting, planned for earlier in the week, out of Chicago to Camp David in Maryland. “We have made NATO and war a topic of dinner table conversation in the city of Chicago and I believe to a considerable extent nationally. The anti-war movement had been re-emerging around Afghanistan as more and more people turned against that war and now there is a major sense of momentum for all the peace groups in the country.”
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Like bugs to a light at night, the Anarchist and Left-wing radicals can't keep themselves away from the attraction. Here you will see some of the real OWS vs the FAKE ones which are nothing more than union employees and other Democrats using the OWS as a mask for their Obama 2012 Blame, Demean, and Divert campaign. This will show you why more Americans are buying guns and ammunition.
Boehner, why are you here posing as some guy name Dan... Do you really have enough time to be plying MSNBC blogs to disseminate your right wing party propaganda??
How about getting your orange ass back over to the oval office and start working with the president on the debt ceiling so we don't have another cluster F' like we did a few months ago when you and your party derailed an improving world economy...crazy alchy...
Hey Harry Ried, why are you here posing as Dogma Bites? Get back to your office and do something good for the country for a change.
Good one, Dave. Where did you come up with that idea for your creative and sarcastic response? Oh yea...Me. Typical right winger who can't think creatively on their own.
People should protest against the war that lasted more than a decade, produced no tangible improvement, wasted trillions of dollars and thousands of lives, and has no end in sight.
Dogma
Where have you been? You know it is the left wingnuts who don't want to work for a living that are protesting every day. You also know that Boehner has been working to improve the economy that the dems have been trying to destroy. Why do you think that the job market has improved over the past two years? The only thing that changed was the republicans gaining control of the House so it isn't any democrat policy that has changed anything. Open your eyes to reality. Things are going to get much better next year when we throw out the progressive/liberals and start going in the right direction again.
I have no idea why any city would lobby to host these events. Chances are good there will be trouble.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I went to one of those occupy committee meetings in L.A. just to see what it was all about. I saw everyone had a separate agenda and they all were super paranoid that everyone was a possible infiltrator of some kind or another. If I may give you my opinion, Chill out on the whole your group is not apart of our group B.S. When the police have you completely surrounded, that's when you know for sure it's time to panic.
Dear police officers, national guard; Lock and Load!
Dogma,
looks like you are stuck in your own dogma, too bad. And it looks like you have a lot of anger and are on the edge of reality and psychotic breakdown......here, let me help you - Dogma Bite This......! What I've seen from lefties like you is uncontrolled anger which you can display at a moments notice when someone else expresses an ideologue different from your own self-righteous one. Please get help........soon!
If you don't stand for something - you'll fall for anything!
Leaders of the world disagree so they send our sons and daughters to settle their differences for them. Going forward they should select pistols, take 10 paces, turn and fire. That would settle it quicker, cheaper, and alot less bloodshed.
A good barometer of how really bad the job market is for Baristas, servers in mediocre restaurants, video rental store clerks, and dog walkers.
So Bob, tell me, what is so offensive about wanting the government to re-prioritize their spending? Why would that message cause you to suggest the national guard shoot people? You're a crazy person.
Here we go, they are back on business after their period of hibernation, they are coming back, the mob of political terrorism , provoking the police to be victimized for the media, the scumbags , the rioters and specialist in destruction of the private property, they calling for to stop spending in wars but they make spend millions to the Citizens of Chicago , to protect their city, money that can be use for , schools, health-care and help for the poor. This is how stupid are those good for nothing. I'm sick of those lazy f@#$% as%%%%%.
"the protesters, which include dozens of unions and anti-war, environmental, education, healthcare and civil liberties’ groups"
Without a coherent, viable message, it's just 'noise in the background'.
Bob-434277
Dear police officers, national guard; Lock and Load!
Don't worry bob, the chicago police don't have to lock and load, the chicago police are some of the best at kicking A*S. remember 1968. if these protectors get out of line the chicago police will put them back in line.
Dear police officers, national guard; Lock and Load!
Bob, why do I get the feeling you are one of those TP types who claim they protect the constitution, did you ever hear of the FIRST amendment.
@Bob
You don't have to tell them, they already did that. However, watch yourself, they may mistake your house as a secret terrorist meeting place with all "pro-killing" and send a drone.
Hey MSNBC:
I saw a tiny blip on my news last night that the G8 summit's actually being moved to Camp David in MD. Can you confirm?
For all you sorry sacks of sh*t who think protesters are just lazy and don't want a job, well there is still no cure for stupid so you are all out of luck. When the number of people in the country is greater than the number of jobs available, guess what? People will be unable to work. Add to the fact that NOBODY with a college degree can live on minimum wage, and yeah, there are alot of pissed off people.
Oh and for you pussies that think the cops/national guard will be able to help you when the dominos come tumbling down, your gonna be the first to go. Just read a history book, if you can read.
JH, I just love it when you give the credit for the job market improving to the Republicans, but when it starts to sink again it is the Dems fault. Do you have a clue at all??
Let them protest loudly because it all falls on deaf ears.
Yep, those "protesters" will not abide by the "imposed limits". Expect the media to cover EVERY inch of this protest while not covering the EuROPIIg Nations implosion nor the Federal Reserve being directed to close their doors next month.
Wait a minute, the ACLU is involved and have "released guidelines for protesters". I am so sure the protesters are going to be nice during the NATO summit. It is going to be interesting to see if the Secret Service uses Mr. Obama's "new Federal Law" to arrest disruptive folks. Maybe the Chicago police should just stand in ranks and let the Secret Service take care of things when they get wacko.
It is really going to be interesting to see what happens since the Mayor will not cross the street from his office to get a bite to eat because of the NORMAL violence within the city.
Why does the US get the joy of hosting all these summits. Let another country have the pleasure of being the host. All the US gets out of it is a bill for expenses and being told we have to go somewhere else to supply aide for countries who hate us.
Interesting that the congress passed and Obama signed into law HR 347: aka: the anti-protest law. Seems it was inacted rather conveniently for the upcoming Dem and Rep conventions. Essentially it makes it a federal crime to protest near anyone protected by the Secret Service. Kinda handy to have that little law in place, which is why the ACLU is on hand to protect the rights of the protesters. Now, I'm no real fan of OWS because I am a proponent of non-violence. That being said, I really, really distrust this congress and this president. NDAA. AUMF, Patriot Act II are all civil rights destroying laws and not one of the Obama supporters has a clue as to what he has done to destroy their civil rights.
Drones? Really? So now we are creating an armed police state, the city of Chicago is in lock-down because of a NATO convention that could have been held out in the desert or some military base or other 'secure' place, somewhere that wouldn't put people's lives at risk and a place that wouldn't require all the arms, fences and other equipment of a militaristic nature.
Peg-3315260 - If you don't stand for something - you'll fall for anything!
Correct! The heart and the will of our nation is being eroded bit by bit by a small group of left leaning radicals and the majority cops it on the chin every time. This NATO protest is part of the long term strategy to harvest our “inaction and ignorance” to their advantage, to eventually conquer the nation and destroy our way of life from within. Don’t be fooled, this will happen; it’s just a matter of time. I wonder, will we wake up in time to prevent it or will we simply put our hands up and surrender?
Jeff, Things got really ugly in '68 when Mayor Richard J Daley gave the order to shoot to kill. Fortunately many of the Policemen couldn't do it so they resorted to kicking the $hit out of the protesters instead. That was a different time,those protests were in regard to the Viet Nam War. I hear some Iraq war vets are returning their medal's during this protest. That's fine with me,they earned them and have to deal with the horror of the war in their own way. But make no mistake there is no comparison to the Viet Nam Vets that did the same thing. You see the Iraq Vets volunteered to serve,the Viet Nam Vets were dragged kicking and screaming!
Jeff, Things got really ugly in '68 when Mayor Richard J Daley gave the order to shoot to kill. Fortunately many of the Policemen couldn't do it so they resorted to kicking the $hit out of the protesters instead. That was a different time,those protests were in regard to the Viet Nam War. I hear some Iraq war vets are returning their medal's during this protest. That's fine with me,they earned them and have to deal with the horror of the war in their own way. But make no mistake there is no comparison to the Viet Nam Vets that did the same thing. You see the Iraq Vets volunteered to serve,the Viet Nam Vets were dragged kicking and screaming!
fenderblues - Your statement is not correct. The shoot to kill order was given to the Chicago police when the Martin Luther King riots started. The order was to given shoot looters. Surprise, surprise, it worked! The riots and burning still continues, but there was no looting. The nation was sparred the sorry sight of anyone just walking into a store and taking what they want, aka LA riots. mayor Daley had his flaws but he had some things right too.
The 68 riot orders was - just break their skulls, and that was shameful. The cops really did not know what to do because they did all the wrong things.
I'm expecting this go-around to be 100% better. Cops are prepared and there is plenty of support. Course with all the permits and herding them into designated areas, it isn't much for free speech.
fenderbluesjr
Jeff, Things got really ugly in '68 when Mayor Richard J Daley gave the order to shoot to kill. Fortunately many of the Policemen couldn't do it so they resorted to kicking the $hit out of the protesters instead.
the reason why things got so ugly in 1986 is because early in the day the war protectors were in grant park filling bags with human urnine and crap and throwing it over at officers, they held there composer till that night when all that happened during that day came back on them.
my uncle was a rookie that year and what those student did to those cops, the cops just gave them pay back.
Bin Laden spent US$500,000 to bring down a multi billions dollar economy. Even though he's dead, he accomplished what he set out to do....set the West on itself.
True !!!
But look at the fortunes the warmongers made on this 'war on terror'! It was not Bin Laden who ruined our economy but the crooks and warmongers in Washington DC who used the fear tactics to loot US Treasury for generations to come.
We just simply forget history. The fall of the soviet union is so awarded to the U.S and Ronald Regan that the true lesson was lost. Afghanistan in-gaged in a un winable guerrilla warfare that bleed the Soviet union dry. To top it off the social programs, Arms race, and space race finished it off. When the social programs that keep the county going quit and people were abandoned the country feel apart.And Bi Laden was there to witness the whole thing. He knew exactly the tactics to make a super power fall to its knees.
Hhmm.
Waged in a highly expensive un winable war- check
Impending collapse of social programs(get off the free crap I"m talking schools, fire, police, infrastructure. Everybody needs those whether rich or poor)-check
Constant divide that old structure and regime ways are not working- check
Sounds like we are heading down the right path that they did.
Rahm Emanuel can take a note from Mayor Richard Daly (1968): "The police are not here to create disorder, they're here to preserve disorder."
I would agree that dead OBL is still winning.
I dislike intensely the amount of money the US wastes supporting NATO, the UN, IMF, etc. So I certainly am not opposed to dignified protests that open dialogue about these excessive contributions to world organizations that IMO often create more havoc. The problem is these protesters when asked cannot articulate their grievances and solutions except to say "stop", which is NOT going to happen. It isn't necessary to make an about turn, but to start by slightly maneuvering in another direction.
The reason I hate unions is because they use intimidation to get their results. The mayor of Chicago has told workers to leave their coats and ties at home so as not to be a target. That is simply ridiculous and speaks of a nation OUT OF CONTROL. No protesters should touch another human being or verbally abuse those they disagree with. When that happens, protesters become the scum they purport to hate.
yup
Are you sure you are ready, protesters?
You think you have lofty ideas, you think you are law-abiding, you think you are not going to start rioting.
The thing is someone can start riots for you, blame them on you, and then kick you in the butt. (Have your heard about wolves guarding the hen house)
Remember 1886 when a bomb exploded on Chicago streets, a labor activist was executed without any evidence - and the entire world got a holiday - the Labor Day - the entire rst of the world still commemorates today (the May Day).
Remember 1968?
I just hope the OWS movement can stop trying to be 'groovy' and start acting like adults.
If they are smart they will be highly organized and appeal to the middle class and independents. If they are just trying to find the party, get laid and be a hero at their local bohemian coffee shop then they will do more of that stupid emoticon, gesticulation crap, wear silly hats and clothes to show off their 'hippness' during their 5 seconds of fame on the evening news, and never know what the hell they want or stand for.
I was excited when OWS first got started but, as it went on, their rediculous antics and behavior just made them look more and more like a bunch of silly kids to the average people of the US. Because of this poor behavior the right wingers and the covert action groups within the banking system were able to easily make them look even more silly than they were already doing on their own.
I know you OWS'rs want to be unique and groovy. Just try to remember that you are already unique and groovy and not make that the center piece of your movement. The middle class and independents don't give a rats azz about dreadlocks, facial piercings, zany hats or that you and your girlfriend met while hanging from steel hooks through your flesh at the fetish club or the new emoticon sign language borrowed from the Internet (Oh hell, who came up with that one?!). The majority of us (those middle class and Independent people again) don't like Wall St either and we have a real problem with the GOP as well as the gov't in general.
How about putting together a movement that would include us rather than just make us roll our eyes and change the channel because, sadly for you, we the middle class and Independent voters are the ones you really NEED to connect with if you want to succeed.
There are a lot more cellphones now than in 1968... read: lots of eyes on Chicago police, all over the world.
You think OWS is going to be appealing to the middle class and independents? That's comical. Perhaps you should put more of the 'groovy' in your pipe.
Max..lots of eyes on the rioters and trouble makers as well, and the whole world sees what happens when idiots assemble
Ha ha ha ha
To pigotry: Of course I remember 1968. The Viet Nam War, the premier arena to test napalm, agent orange, and guided missles. All this because we were so scared that little men in black pajamas were going to invade the USA and make us all become commies. They used fear to control us then, and they are using it now. However, all of those 'unwashed hippie protesters' as you would call them, showed the world what a sham this war was, and forced the government to shut it down. Chief Hawk McNamara even finally admitted that the war was just wrong. Some things just never change.
Eileen-2117949 - Um, no. Pigotry is referring the 1968 Democratic convention in Chicago where the Chicago Police Department made protestors there personal punching bags. 1968 is when the Chicago Police earned their money. I hope that 2012 has a similar outcome.
Yep, that, too. The 60s were like that infamous Chinese curse 'may you live in interesting times'. Now I'm confused, you want the Chicago Police to bash heads unprovoked?
Not to mention Eileen - that's not what Vietnam was about. It was about the north not wanting to become a French colony again in order to join NATO. The south however was all for it. So in turn they were deemed communist and the American people were told "look, we have to protect the poor south from the north. Not to mention the rest of the world from this commie threat" and everybody ate it up in the beginning. We were "liberating" the north from communism supposedly.
Of course I was born long after Vietnam (1985) however, I read history. I've participated in my generations Vietnam - OEF and OIF.
Irish23 - So you're saying you hope the police silence peoples freedom of speech and freedom to assemble? You hope they start assaulting reporters (in case you forgot, they assaulted Dan Rather while Walter Cronkite watched)? That's what you want to happen huh? You sir can get out of my country for you are not American by any standards. You are the very definition of a traitor and a tucked d**k ball dragging pansy. I hope that cul-de-sac keeps you safe when s**t really hits the fan in this country tuff guy.
Yes Eileen, irish23 wants heads crushed.
another candidate for the New Brown Shirts
This great country of ours was founded on protest. Remember 'taxation without representation'? As an American it is my patriotic duty to protest for the rights & freedoms of WE THE PEOPLE. I protested the Vietnam war, I protested for civil rights, I protested for womens rights and I will continue to protest for WE THE PEOPLE"S rights & freedoms. During the Revolutionary War (or the War of INDEPENDENCE) the people who sided with the English against the Colonist were called "Loyalists" They too probably hoped the British soldiers would make the Protesters their 'punching bags'. Thank God the protesters won. So- to all the people who criticize & mock & make ugly statements about protesters I say Thank God for the REAL patriots.
We don't need gestapo tactics on the streets of Chicago.
Hey John Bayner,
Were you thinking that KGB tactics would be preferable ?
Funny how history tends to repeat itself. Eileen, I remember 68 also. I served a tour in Nam. So, different names, different faces and different circumstances, but the world still breeds its fare share of dissenters and kooks. Some have righteous complaints and others are just kooks. LBJ was an idiot and so are most politicians.
Republican, Democrat, Rich, Poor...we all rise together and sink together. We obviously all don't agree with one another, but we all live under the same flag. There is right and there is wrong. There is evil and there is good. Communisim was and still is evil in its practice. Ask those who've escaped its clutches and they'll tell you.
But Republican or Democrat, it's just two sides of the same coin. Why everyone is bickering about who is right and who is wrong, and this countrys eyes are diverted away with some petty issues, they ought to be looking to the Federal Reserve as a starter. According to the Constitution, it's Congress who is charged with the responsibility of printing our money, not delegating it over to a consortium of bankers whom represent the elite banking families in Europe. If these people want to stage a protest then NATO isn't the ones to be protesting. Either way, they all should just find themselves some gainful employment and make their voices heard at the voting polls come November.
To John Doe, not sure what they are putting in history books now. I was alive then. 3 of my brothers were drafted as well as my husband. He enlisted, and became a nuclear chemist with top security clearance. After the war, and after debriefing, he told me about the programs to test weapons. Yes, you are correct about the politics in 'Nam. However, OUR main concern was enriching the military industrial complex, and field testing weapons. In the meantime, what do the history books say that the protests in 1968 in Chicago were all about? The real answer? The war. Big Curt, you make very valid points.
Actually, the majority of Pigotry's comment is related to the Haymaker Riots ... much more of a big deal than 1968, just without the cameras!
No, what we don't need are dirty anarchists clogging up our streets and costing our cities ever more money to police your stupid protests. How about you just stop questioning everything and anything and focus on improving your own lot. Time wasted by these ridiculous protests is time that could be spent finding a job or doing something positive for your community. Protesting is a waste of time and i assume by pretty much every picture i have seen of any protester, regardless of location, that they are all bearded hipsters who want free stuff, or student debt eliminated, or some other anti capitalist agenda. I assume because i haven't seen a clean cut, shirt & tie wearing representative speaking in favor of these protests. These are the great unwashed among society and i could care less for any of these losers issues. My life is very comfortable with the status quo and i don't want any more change, the past four years has been enough change for a lifetime. Vote Romney 2012.
For all you sorry sacks of sh*t who think protesters are just lazy and don't want a job, well there is still no cure for stupid so you are all out of luck. When the number of people in the country is greater than the number of jobs available, guess what? People will be unable to work. Add to the fact that NOBODY with a college degree can live on minimum wage, and yeah, there are alot of pissed off people.
Oh and for you pussies that think the cops/national guard will be able to help you when the dominos come tumbling down, your gonna be the first to go. Just read a history book, if you can read.
@Dom
You're effectively admitting that you are a superficial loser who is fortunate enough to not have fallen on hard times. Yet you say protesting is just lazy and a waste of time? They should just find jobs? WHAT jobs?
Seems to me like you are afraid of having your lifestyle changed, so you expect the rest of us to live in the mud to support you.
Does it matter what a person wears? Does that change what is in their head? You obviously think so. Thus the superficial loser part comes into play.
Vote Romney? As if GOP garbage would do anything to help society. Think I'm a democrat? Think again. I'm not stupid enough to be partisan.
So to "sum you up" based on your post:
-You are highly detached from reality. (You believe hundreds of thousands of people just stopped working because they want free stuff)
-You are selfish and without empathy (you believe since you have yours, that everyone else just needs to get in line. That they have no merit because you are not screwed)
-You are very fearful (you are "very comfortable with the status quo." even though many aren't, so out of fear you hate them, because in your mind they threaten your lifestyle.)
-You are ignorant (You think there is a difference between Romney and Obama. They both will sell this country to the highest bidder.)
What I think is rather amusing is that those who complain about protestors are actually protesting themselves. You got love America, man.
Dom ... you're conveniently forgetting this country wouldn't exist without protesters.
Also, black and women would still not have (supposedly) equal rights either -- but that might be OK with you.
1886 Haymarket Massacre!
John Doe,"Dan Rather was asaulted while Walter Cronkite watched!",so what? If you knew anything about Dan Rather he wouldn't want it any other way. Rather gave a lecture to war journalist students in which he envoked this scenario. Suppose you were along a road and saw Viet Cong troops hiding in ambush,they didn't see you,but you knew there were US troops coming up the road behind you,what would you do? One student raised his hand and stated he would quickly sneak back and warn the soldiers of the impending ambush. That's when Dan Rather quickly railed the student that he was wrong," that's not our job"! He said,"our job is to report the events"! Chilling huh? I guess Walter just let Dan have what he needed, a good old fashioned a$$ whooping! Y'know his nick name was Dan Rather-biased!
fenderbluesjr - You've never been in the military have you? Let me tell you something, that IS the reporters job. That is their ONLY job. As a veteran we hated embedded reporters, or at least my fire team did. They get in the way, give away positions, and cause us extra hardship due to having to protect them. If they just shut up and do their job in accordance with out restrictions they come out alive. So yes, Rather was 100% correct. Thanks for playing.
Oh and I love how my previous comment was collapsed. Why? Because you can't take hearing from a veteran that America (especially the citizens) are mindless cowards? It's called denial - look it up. Maybe when you stop feeding into the media and all these monotonous gray-haired politicians you'll start thinking for yourselves.
Most of you can't think past tomorrow. You have an issue looking at the bigger picture of everything that's going on. Fear and hatred are a monster and your all throwing prime rib at it. Would you like to know why the military is being trained in martial law tactics and how to engage in conflicts in our own country again? How about the fact that daily your rights are being stripped away because of "terrorists" and the continuity of government.
And all of you are just laying on your back like a Vegas prostitute taking it all in. You think the federal government can do no wrong and has each of your best interests in mind - think again. The ones in power are put there to protect the Constitution and our rights. News flash - they want power, absolute power. They can ignore or even abolish everything America holds dear and when that happens (because it is) who are you going to run to then? If the soldiers themselves are telling you something is way wrong with this country (including WWII vets) don't you think you should start listening?
John, You're right I didn't serve and I thank you for your service to our country. No,I was at the draft board when I turned 18 when they were only drafting 19yr olds. When I turned 19 my draft lottery number based on my birthday was #86 (no $hit!),but Nixon ended the war in Viet Nam. You see the 1st 100 were going in,100-150 probable,150-250 less likely and 250+ slim to none. But that doesn't make me less patriotic than you,are hearts are in the same place in regard to our nation,yes sir. My father served in WWII, flew B24 Liberator's, he's 90 yrs. old and in pretty good shape,too. When I was a teenager I used to see the banners in homes with a blue star,then saw some would change to gold. They were the older brothers of my friends who didn't come home. You know what my dad would say,"that's why you got to listen to your Sargent,jump when he says jump,keep your head down"! It's a hell of a thing for a father going through a war only to realize his son was going to do the same thing. All he could do was encourage me to do my best because my time was coming. And we both understood that this is what it takes and this is what you do to preserve our freedom we take for granted. There was no running to Canada or greasing the pocket of a Chicago alderman for a deferrment in our family,those actions were hateful. So to get back to my 1st response John,Walter Cronkite watching Dan Rather get his a$$ kicked was a good thing,right? Cronkite allowed the events to unfold without molestation. I sure hope so because me and my old man couldn't stand Dan Rather LOL! I was nervous about being drafted as a kid but right now I'm downright scared of the way the country is erroding before my dad's eyes. This is killing guys like you and my father who love America because you guys had a phsycal and mental stake in it as well. And again thank you for your service.
When I was 16 (1968), I was livin on the rooftops over Pipers Alley, a half block from North Ave. on Wells St. Anyone from Chicago knows where its at. Got pushed through the front window of the Lincoln Hotel by a line of Chi-Town's finest. Good times great memories. Year later, I was on the other side of the line in D.C. with the 82nd outta Bragg. 10 mos. after that, I was with F trp. 4th Cav. outta Binh Hoa doin LRRPs for the 1st Avn. Bde. In 73 I was in LBJ (Long Binh Stockade) for sayin "This ain't right", in the wrong company. Still don't know who's right/who's wrong. But I do know this. You live & you learn - or you don't live long (old ranger proverb). So, I guess that makes me right - it's been a good run. I'm ready for the last big thrill.
Yo FenderBlues. I hear ya. when you seen it up close, you feel it when you hear of a KIA - not even old enough to get kicked out of a bar. And for what? A closed casket & a flag? "Throw down your truth & check your weapon. Don't look to see if you're alone. Just stand your ground, don't turn around whatever happens. Don't ask directions - the next voice you hear will be your own.
How do these professional protesters support themselves? Who funds this. I guess obama switched backed to Chicago ( for obvious reasons) when Putin told him he wouldn't waste time to meet with obama. Maybe Sergi wil show up so obama can beg him some more.
I've got news for you proud. You support them. Assuming you pay taxes of course. There are more entitlement payments than you can imagine. It is sickening. But that is how the Dems buy their votes.
The same way they support themselves with civil rights movement, racial movement and all those things that make this country great. I know it hard for you to educate yourself on some simple history, but you can't be that blind.
Not everyone agrees that all those movements were positive..............................
Proud, you are on every vine in the world spewing your pro-conservative drivel. I mean, EVERY vine. You were even on the Saint Joseph MO News-Press vine that last couple days vomiting anti-gay bile. Dude, who pays you to post this stuff ("stuff" is the polite term)? The Crotch Brothers? Either that or you have waaaaaaaay too much time to waste.
bobber-3677831.....
Apparently you have not visited any First Read articles. Yep, the same Liberal folks are on that vine daily spewing their "Love Obama drivel". A lot of them are from Illinois, so they may be getting paid by the Obama Chicago Campaign Attack Team. Then again, I suppose they could just be wasting time until the "Obama Bucks" doors open at the local Social Welfare office.
Ido- Zinggggh! :) FR sent!
Some people seem to have an inflated view of their importance. OWS has changed nothing and neither did the anti-war protesters of the 90s before them. As for the anti-nuke people, thanks for making our power grid even more reliant on oil and coal and stifling serious R&D in this area. That was very helpful.
Protesters: Long on complaints, but short on solutions. I will agree we need to stop all this war spending though; that's money down the drain.
Well actually OWS did improve the street departments methods cleaning up of crap on the streets.
If it turns out to be an OWS protest the police have a safe and effective method to break it up.........they send in a guy with employment apps and the protesters vanish.
And to all of you who are so very, very afraid of the Americans who believe in "Freedom of Speech"-- move to China. Not many protesters in China (alive)..........
Or blacks for that matter. just saying
I would remind you that the anti-Vietnam war protestors changed opinion in a major way.
The anti-Vietnam War protestors changed opinion in a major way.
watch obama stage a 9/11 disaster to keep his presidency.. but it wont work,,people are sick of this clown
mike here, two words for you...Dip @!$%#.
Up yours Dan G. I am a 54 year old white guy who probably owns more guns than you but I am sick of 10 years of war. Either don't spend the money or start doing nation building here. Stupid ass it has nothing to do with Obama, remember who completly trashed this economy and got both wars started. It is not partisan it is just crappy government put in by the sheep or I mean us. NATO was for the cold war, why does it even exist and why are we still subsidizing the rest of the worlds defense?
The extreme left and the extreme right aren't really that different. They both want to just continue to do the same thing over and over again, haven't had a new thought in forever. Heard a TV commentator say we should do what Reagan did in 84 and it is like had he ever read a newspaper since that time. The end of the cold war, the beginning of globalization kind of happened since then. I think we need to start coming together and looking for common nnovative and new solutions or since we all have so many guns lets just shoot it out.
Dan,
You make a a number of great observations but I think a new "cold war" is coming our way. As far as NATO is concerned, we are NATO. With minimal to non-existent support from other member countries we bear the brunt of operational costs as well as personnel cost. NATO only allows us to be pre-staged and enter into agreements for deployment of troops.
If yo think the economy in Europe is bad now.. just think what would happen of France and Germany had to pay for their own national defense.
Lets just get out of the U.N. to start with. I think it should be moved to Paris myself.
Dan, brilliant observation
Sorry, but you're the one sounding like an a**. Blaming all our problems on the war is just an excuse theLiberals love to use. I wasn't commenting on NATO but rather the rift raft protesters and Liberal excuses for our problems the conference (any government conference) brings.
Dan G. remember what the economy was like in 2000? 2001 pre 9/11? Bin Laden won, bro. He completely tanked the Western economy because he knew the US would respond with guns blazing and he knew that we were going to enter into a protracted war with a group of people that know nothing BUT war. Obviously you can't ignore what happened that day, but perhaps if cooler heads had prevailed in washington at that time our response would have been more.....surgical, shall we say?
Bin Laden did play Bush like a ukelele to acccomplish his ends. I'm glad we currently have a President with the intelllect and the self control to resist trickery of that nature. I expect we'lll have him until 2016. In fact, I'm counting on it.
Proudamerican - US invented the Cold War, after saving communist Russia and helping to arm it to the teeth through the Lend-Lease program, just like later (after the cold war racket stopped working) it invented the war-on-terror by arming and training jihadis like Bin Laden. It was done to benefit the US military industrial complex. European countries like Germany and France are not STUPID to waste their money fighting self-created monsters.
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/u-s-military-spending-is-out-of-control-12-facts-that-show-that-we-cannot-afford-to-be-the-police-of-the-world
Max - that actually occurred during the cold war, not after. There was now way either side would strike first so in order to defeat Russia we used alternate methods to engage them in combat. That was training and arming a couple factions in Afghanistan to fight. This of course left their country in shambles with countless weapons for the different factions to use in order to exert their control. We also promised them to help rebuild and help their people and the fighters. We did nothing of the sort. Just packed up shop and left. Just like we did in the original gulf war which ended in the slaughter of thousands at the hands of Saddams regime.
Max,
The Comintern was operational in the 1020s and 1930s throughout Europe, Asia, and the US. It's purpose was the international spread of communism. As long as the Soviet Union existed, that never changed.
Poland, East Germany, Hungary, Czeckoslovokia, Lithuania, the entire Eastern block were not independant nations allied with the Soviet Union, they were directly governed by Moscow.
The Cold War was the response to contain Soviet expansion. You make it sound as if it were unnecessary. Unfortunately, it was either the Cold War, or a red hot shooting war. Sometimes, it was both.
As to the US saving the Soviet Union in WW2, you do realize that the US entered the war after the December 7, 1941 bombing of Pearl Harbor. The German armies were stopped dead in their tracks at Stalingrad, in August 1942. By the time Von Paulus surrendered Army Group South, lend lease supplies began reaching the Soviets.
In short, the Soviets stopped the Wehrmacht all by themselves, inflicting approximately 1 million casualties on the Germans and their allies just at Stalingrad alone.
The German army never went a step foreward after Stalingrad, it was all backward.
If anything, without Soviet Russia, and without Stalingrad, the war may have ended entirely different.
Helping communist Russia through the Lend-lease program was one of the dumbest things US has done in the 20th century. Without the help from US, Germans would have eventually destroyed communism in Russia. Thanks to US help Russia emerged from the war much stronger and captured a huge swath of central Europe. If you have any doubts, read here: http://www.historynet.com/russias-life-saver-lend-lease-aid-to-the-ussr-in-world-war-ii-book-review.htm
Nonsense, w/o US aid, Russia would have been toast.
400,000 Ford trucks were sent to Russia along w/ everything else and the kitchen sink.
You only need to look at how badly Russia fared in WWI (i.e. railroads)versus WWII (mechanized warfare).
During 1941 the Red Army was using signal flags, fer cripssakes, before all that U.S. made telephone equipment showed up.
In 1944 the US was manufacturing 95,000 aircraft, more than all the other nations combined (including USSR), so great was it's industrial base.
I served in Europe during the Cold War and I remember how it was. We kept provoking the Bear, not just with submarine and plane spying over their homeland, but with placement of nuclear weapons on Russia's doorstep in Turkey, which led to the Cuban missile crisis. During that crisis, our dumbass president gave an order to use depth charges on a Russian sub armed with nuclear weapons in international waters! If it was not for the cool head of the Russian sub's captain, a nuclear WW3 would have been started thanks to the idiot Kennedy... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov
So don't tell me that we did not start and fuel the Cold War to benefit the military industrial complex.
Moose - US has also transferred an enormous amount of military technology to Russia. As a result, we were helping them make technological advancements in all sorts of fields.
THis thread is a goood History test. CPO Sharkey has it right - alll you folks who think the U.S. saved Russsia in WWIII have it completely wrong. SOrry, that's just the way it is. As a mattter of fact there was a certain amount of resentment in Russsia because of their perception that the alllies held back and let Russsia do the heavy lifting.
"Like bugs to a light at night, the Anarchist and Left-wing radicals can't keep themselves away from the attraction. Here you will see some of the real OWS vs the FAKE ones which are nothing more than union employees and other Democrats using the OWS as a mask for their Obama 2012 Blame, Demean, and Divert campaign. This will show you why more Americans are buying guns and ammunition."
I was initially being sarcastic when I first wrote this, but found myself only minutes later ordering some more .223 & 380 ammo to increase my supply just in case.
Dan...Go back to your hidy hole and break open some MRE's! Make sure the spiders don't bite you.
Yeah Dan, the Lib-ro-tards don't want for you to tell the truth so much. They want to spread their lies un-interrupted.
Crazy people shouldn't own guns! Right to bear arms or not.
Useless protest that achieve absolutely nothing but chaos for over burdened police.
This could get interesting. I like it allready.
Me too.
Thr protesters need to start with the ACCORN office and work their way to City Hall.
I think the real thing will be to see how they will apply the powers granted to them under H.R. 347. The 1st amendment was done away with basically undercover, with very little fanfare. I am a conservative, and no friend of O.W.S., but this applies across the board against any protests or speech against any one that would qualify for secret service protection, or any government facility or building. Stand there with a sign criticizing Obama or Romney, and you are fair game to be arrested. This is almost like taking the sedition acts to new heights. Scary sh*t, people. Read up on it yourself. Everybody from conservative groups to the A.C.L.U. is talking about this.
Excellent post. Good to know there are at least a few other aware of H.R. 347. Our Constitution is being trashed.
I think it would be good to not only protest and get involved on a national scale, but to get very actively involved in local city government. You would be surprised by how much is decided by the "lowly city council" for the quality of life in our cities and towns. I've personally been very surprised to find out. Everything from will your city be more bike friendly and alternative transportation friendly, "green", to education issues. It's huge.
Chloe, I can't agree with you more. Everyone is so concerned with the "king" that they forget they can effect real change in their community.
The " American Spring " is debuting.
As Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid have said, GOD BLESS THE PROTESTERS.
Funny and ironic. Two atheists invoking the name of a God they don't beleive in for a cause they don't really support other than the political gain it gives them. Be wary of Nancy, Harry and Barry. Remember what Hitler did to his own brownshirts when they helped him rise to power.
I think the producers at MSNBC ( formerly Air America) are really desperate to bring back the hippie culture of the sixties. I guess it is a lot easier to delude and control people with disinformation when they are stoned or on acid. You cannot look at the faces of this crowd without wondering who is back home watching the marijuana farm (its for medicinal purposes only).
Proud, see my reply to you a few posts above. You are on every vine in the USA, maybe in the world, spewing nothing but crap. You have no cogent arguments, nothing original to say. You just take up room spewing your sh*t everywhere. You're a joke. Well, actually worse.
I know this is going to be unpopular, but such protests are "Sound and Fury, Signifying Nothing." Real change comes from inside the voting booth, not from temper tantrums in the street. I challenge these protester to do something CONSTRUCTIVE. Get out and vote in November. 40-plus years ago we used to say "if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem." Be part of the solution. VOTE. If you don't, you got nothing to whine and mewl and puke about.
More like they should actually run for office. All anyone has to vote for is an extreme. Extreme right/extreme left. I hope the younger generations grow a pair and enter politics and maybe even just start a middle of the road independent party.
I know so many people who complain about government policies - but don't vote. There's apparently no connection in their minds. I, too, get upset about the political process - but at least I know I've done the one individual act that has a definite material effect.
For some people, voting just isn't as much fun as camping in a city park and throwing a brick through the window of a Citibank branch. But stop pretending you're political. Those of us who are recognize that you're not. VOTE. That's where the rubber meets the road.
So you're saying that there's a good candidate out there? My guess is that you think it's either a republican or democrat because here in America we only like to be ran by two parties. Both that have s**t that stinks worse that their failure at life. Almost as bad as the people that vote for them fail at life.
Real change comes from the voting booth you say? Given the current state of the country I'd say you need to put that straight jacket back on.
The person who steps from voters booth, nods satisfyingly and wipes his hands as though he has done his part, has lost the plot. If voting were so effectual why is there such continuity between administrations? Why are there so many similarities? Voting, while a good exercise of democracy, is not the be all and end all. It is only the beginning.
Do you really believe that all those protesters don't vote?
Joe, I've been voting since 1969. I agree, if you don't vote, you are not allowed to bitch. However, what went wrong in 2000 and 2004? The vote didn't matter, because Dubya was handed the election both times. Sorta shook my faith in the power of the polling place. But I'll still keep voting. It's the one power to the people we have left. In the meantime, to you posters who say demonstrations never changed a thing. Hmmm, what do you think stopped the Viet Nam War? And why were the protests so violent? These young men were fighting for their lives, remember the draft? It's one thing to enlist, totally another to be drafted into a war that you believe to be unjust, unethical, and just plain wrong.
Vote for whomever you like. If my candidates don't win, it's because enough people didn't agree with me. Or because enough people didn't agree with me back when those vacancies appeared on the Supreme Court.
I don't expect perfection in candidates; I don't expect the government to be my personal ideal. But I do recognize the lesser of two evils (from my perspective) and I prefer it. And I'll vote for it. If there were another candidate - not from the two parties - that I admired, I'd give them money and vote for them. Why not? If I feel that way, others might agree with me.
I have no problem with protests - I've participated in protests - but I don't support violence, either to person or property. Please do something more clever and interesting than throwing a brick or setting a car on fire. How is that any different than when someone wins the Stanley Cup? Wars tend to start and stop when lots of relatively boring people think they should. Thus, I think political action is most effective when the boring people are kept in mind. Gandhi was counting on the conscience of the average English citizen.
NATO once served an important purpose, but sadly has become little more than a fig leaf to cover US militarism. Same with the UN. The United States should remove itself from both, and its citizens should demand that a declaration of war by Congress precedes any introduction of US troops into combat. Today trillions of our tax dollars - arguably tantamount to our complicity - are being used to fund myriad military actions whose relationship to our national security is tenuous at best, while taking thousands of innocent lives.
The levers of military force need to be reined back under the control of the people and their direct representatives. This should also include a financial audit of the Pentagon.
Thoughtful, level-headed, reasonable. Why are you here?
Thanks for the post, it was excellently conveyed.
Amen gjdavis60. Woodrow Wilson and his League Of Nations that eventually evolved into the U N have become duck and cover excuses for gutless administration and congress. We have no power in the U N as Russia and China veto anything that would be in the interest of human rights that we may propose. The U N should be moved to Malta where Roosevelt, Churchill and Stalin all had there beer summit, or, to Casa Blanca Morocco, the famed twenty one club is close by and as much entertainment goes on in Casa Blanca as in New York, besides, it is closer to all the action. Let those countries fight it out among themselves in their "United Nations" without U S money and involvement and trying to dictate United States policies and constitutional rights. We don't need one world government to tell us how to run our country, we need cajones in our leaders.
Wish I could be there to protest. God knows we need something to shake this country out of its trance.
Does anyone honestly believe these protestors contribute anything to the Federal coffers? How can you protest about how "our" tax dollars are being spent when you don't contribute a dime in taxes? We are quickly becoming a country where hard work, self reliance and free markets are a thing of the past, now it's just "give me what's rightfully mine" from someone else who has too much.
luke, you can't possibly believe that all the people present at these protests have no taxable incomes, do you? They contribute, we contribute for what? So that our government can provide services, build infrastructure, not blow it on war. I am not the type of person to demand welfare and social enlistments but it's certainly nobler to provide our children with a great education than it is to be blowing up Muslims in the ME.
Priorities. I see your's have nothing to do with the betterment of society but instead the destruction of other humans.
your confused
therefore I spueth thy out of my mouth
Luke, that's some really thoughtless bile.
lukeware ---- you are 100% right! These are the freeloaders in our society who have now idea what personal responsibility and accountability mean. The core values and principles of this country have totally eroded and this is the end product.
What's the end product? Demanding our tax dollars go towards education, infrastructure, services rather than perpetual war? Oh man if you knew anything about accountability, it wouldn't be the protesters you'de be railing against, it would be our out of control government instead.
They better not piss off the citizens of Chicago.
Shouting "Kill the Police" as a protest slogan did not go as planned. The protestors almost got their butts beat when they were protesting the police on Tuesday. Funny how the police had to save them from the citizens and saved their whiny souls.
I was surprised almost no news outlet reported this incident.
NATO is supposed to be a multi-national FIGHTING force, not freakin' social workers.
NATO has outlived its usefulness, many of its members are simply not capable of participating yet they are members. Can only be because they can get to much of the US taxpayers money. Look how many nations refused to participate in a 'NATO' action.
NATO should be disbanded in favor of a fast reaction force that takes no prisoners and re-establishes the order that should exist in all countries, third-world or otherwise.
I'm a fan of the Occupy folks. I agree with them 100% on Wall St, the 1% vs the 99%, corporate greed - really all of their economic agenda and most of their domestic agenda.
But I think they're veering off the track when they protest against NATO. Since it's inception, NATO really has been on the side of the good guys. Interventions in the Balkans in the 90s and Libya recently were successful, low cost, and brought about relatively good outcomes. Without NATO, international cooperation would be more difficult, and the US might find itself much more isolated as the world's policeman.
Sure, NATO represents a huge cost, and there are no doubt better uses for the money. But NATO is not even close to the biggest problem in the world today. The Occupy movement has done an awful lot to bring some focus on the truly big issues. I think they're diluting their message here.
Who's good guys? Ours or their?
Occupy is a joke - they offer no solution or have any type of tangible platform - protestors from the 60's at least had a defined program to change things - these idiots just say change but don't say change to THIS. This could turn into the Dem National Convention riots of 1968 - might actually help the Republicans - that part of the article that is concerning is the comment "new federal laws for the secret service to deal with protestors" - I don't recall anything in the media about changes in the law that could allow potential gestapo techniques? Hmmmm wonder why?
The best part of the protest will be when the peace loving anti-war folks prove their commitment to peace and non-violence by putting on masks and attacking people, destroying property and harming others all in the name of peace. Hope Chicago recalls 1968 and responds accordingly.