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Michael Towson
Photo of bomb plot suspect Brent Betterly, 24, taken by a fellow Occupy protester in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
Friends of three activists charged with plotting to hurl firebombs during the NATO Summit in Chicago reacted for the most part with disbelief Sunday, saying that the arrests appear to be an effort to undermine peaceful protest.
Brent Betterly, 24, Brian Jacob Church, 20, and Jared Chase, 24, were charged Saturday with a terrorist conspiracy to firebomb four Chicago police stations, the home of Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel and President Barack Obama’s local campaign headquarters.
Stephanie Auguiste, a 25-year-old from Hollywood, Fla., met all three of the alleged bombers through Occupy Fort Lauderdale, a Florida offshoot of the Occupy Wall Street movement. She said the police description of the trio as violent anarchists didn’t match the young men she knew.
Courtesy Stephanie Auguiste
Stephanie Auguiste, 25, met all three of the alleged firebomb plotters through Occupy protests in Florida.
She said that when she spoke with Betterly by phone last week about his time in Chicago, “He was telling me how local police officers were harassing them a lot and how they were pretty violent toward protesters. “ Betterly was “shocked” by the aggressive tactics but didn’t give Auguiste any indication that he was planning to strike back with force, she said.
Auguiste also said she found it hard to believe that Church -- who she knew by his middle name, Jacob -- is the same person described in charging documents as remarking about the sight of a “cop on fire.” Rather, she remembers Church as a soft-spoken artist who liked making still-life sketches and opposed the National Defense Authorization Act on constitutional grounds.
“He’s not the kind of person who had the desire to commit violent acts toward anyone,” Auguiste said of Church. “He believed in peaceful protest.”
Both Church and Betterly had lived in South Florida. Their friend, Chase, was from New Hampshire. Auguiste said she only met him once but found him to be “extremely friendly, very warm.”
Chase and Betterly have had brushes with the law. According to a Reuters report, Chase was charged with attempt to commit assault and reckless endangerment in June 2003, after he pulled a knife in a fight with another man. The report also detailed an incident a month later where Chase was in another fight, after which he hit a man with his car. The man wasn’t injured, but Chase was reportedly found guilty of assault.
(Chase’s uncle, Michael Chase of Westmoreland, N.H., told the Union-Leader newspaper that his nephew had only become politically active when the Occupy Wall Street protests bloomed. Of the charges, he said, “Seems outrageous and completely out of character for him. … He’s no angel. He’s not happy with the economy. Nobody is.”)
Last October Betterly was charged for burglary of an unoccupied structure, grand theft and criminal mischief when after a night of drinking, he and two friends broke into an Oakland Park, Fla., school to swim in the pool, according to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel. Those felony charges are still pending.
Olivia Ferguson
Olivia Ferguson, 36, of Fort Lauderdale, Fla., said she believes the charges against Betterly "about as much as I believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy."
Olivia Ferguson, 36, said she often shared a tent with Betterly on the plaza adjoining the Fort Lauderdale City Hall during the Occupy protests. An electrician, Betterly would sometimes visit the encampment overnight after having worked 16 hours that same day, she said.
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“I believe Brent is a terrorist about as much as I believe in Santa Claus and the tooth fairy,” said Ferguson, from Fort Lauderdale. Recalling Betterly’s fondness for drinking, she believes that the home-brewing kit allegedly being used to make Molotov cocktails was probably just for making beer. Recalling his blond dreadlocks and goofy charm, Ferguson said she gave Betterly the nickname “Spicoli,” after Sean Penn’s party hearty character in “Fast Times at Ridgemont High.”
At one Occupy Fort Lauderdale meeting in October led by Ferguson and Betterly, a man in the group spoke up to advocate more forceful forms of protest – spray-painting and property destruction. “Brent and I said absolutely not,” Ferguson said. “We were totally against that.”
Another Occupy activist, Mike Howson, 25, said he was “really surprised” to see Betterly’s name surface in connection with a terrorist act. “Like most of us, there were political things you’d bitch about, but he didn’t seem like the kind of guy who would actually go through with something like that.”
Michael Howson
Mike Howson, 25, of Sunrise, Fla., said Betterly "didn't seem like the kind of guy who would actually go through with something like that."
Howson, who resides in Sunrise, Fla., remembered Church being more reserved than the outgoing Betterly-- the type who “observes before he interacts with people.”
One activist who met Betterly and Church in Florida, and spoke about them on condition of anonymity, was not as surprised as their other fellow protesters, saying they were more inclined than most to push the limits of peaceful protest,
“Jacob (Church) was immature and he was angry -- that’s a dangerous combination,” the activist said.
The same activist was more surprised that Betterly was implicated in the plot, but recalled his increasing frustration when the Fort Lauderdale movement cleared out its camp in December.
“He went to Washington, D.C. for that national Occupy convention,” said the activist. “He then stayed near McPherson Square, and I can only surmise that he became somewhat radicalized by people he met there, because when he was here he was very much committed to nonviolence.”
facebook.com
Evan Rowe said suspect Brent Betterly "didn't seem to have a coherent ideological motivation, but he was tactically eager to pursue actions which might get him arrested in the pursuit of the Occupy cause."
Evan Rowe, 34, who met Betterly through Occupy Fort Lauderdale, answered questions via email. “Brent was always super-eager and hard core,” he said. “He didn’t seem to have a coherent ideological motivation, but he was tactically eager to pursue actions which might get him arrested in the pursuit of the Occupy cause.”
In Rowe’s opinion, the arrests were a “public relations exercise” by law enforcement agencies that need to invent sophisticated terrorist plots to justify their out-sized budgets, he said.
In a statement to reporters Saturday, Cook County State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez said that the investigation of the NATO bombing plot had been going on for weeks and that the Chicago Police detectives were assisted by the FBI and U.S. Secret Service. Alvarez called the men “domestic terrorists” who had come to Chicago “to hurt people.”
Kris Hermes, a spokesman for the National Lawyers Guild, which is representing the three accused bombers, said Sunday that prosecutors have yet to show evidence to support police claims of terrorist acts. “This is a direct attempt to stifle protest and to turn the public opinion against peaceful protesters.”
Defense attorneys hope to learn more about the state’s case at a court hearing Tuesday. “We strongly believe that undercover cops in this case were manufacturing crimes,” said Hermes. “They were provoking these guys to do things that they would not have otherwise done -- and it’s not even clear that they did engage in any criminal activities.”
Hermes said that the same two undercover cops who busted Betterly, Chase and Church were behind the bust of Sebastian Senakiewicz and Mark Neiweem, both of Chicago. Senakiewicz was charged with falsely making a terrorist threat while Neiweem stands accused of attempted possession of an explosive device. Police have said the two plots were unrelated.
Sunday afternoon, thousands of protesters marched from Jackson Drive and Columbus Drive, near Lake Michigan, to McCormick Place, the setting for the NATO Summit. Some 60 countries are sending delegations to the event, where diplomats are discussing the war in Afghanistan and missile defense in Europe.
There were reports of clashes between protesters and police at the conclusion of the march, but it appears that the demonstration was largely peaceful.
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A bomb? not again!
In 1886 a real bomb was thrown into Chicago Streets during a labor rally. A labor activist was executed without any evidence. The crime has never been solved. Thus Chicago got a reputation worse than the one from Al Capoon.
The rest of the world rallied to support the suffering Chicago labor activists and their legitimate demands.
This is how May Day has become the Labor Day for the entire world (exccept the US), which is still commemorated today.
We have to wait and see what happens this time. Let facts speak - not hot-headed charges and countercharges...but we know sometimes truth will never come out...in 1886, for example.
BTW, the 1886 incident was the 'Haymarket Massacre,' there is still a monument there today.
Exactly. A Bomb? Since when did a molitov cocktail become a bomb? Holey smokes! I'm so glad they prevented the nuclear attack on Chicago! These are the people who protect us from false registrars for the Presidency, a totally incompetent bunch. They set people up to justify their existence.
Terry, used properly, gasoline bombs are extremely lethal. They were used by partisan forces throughout WWII and were responsible for the destruction of many German tanks. What I wonder about is why they needed any sort of equipment to make them? Their attraction is that they are quick (pour gasoline in a bottle, install a rag wick) and easy (ingredients are everywhere) to make. In the event it is proved they are guilty, the penalty should be severe. Being badly burned is one of very worst ways to go. Also, weapons like this are non-selective, there is almost always collateral damage.
They can't be bombers - not with flower and dog pictures.
Wait and see?! I don't think so! This is not about the protesters this about our government.
The government has proven itself to be anti-freespeech, violent oppressors over and over and the corporate media has repeatedly shown itself to work hand-in-hand with the corporatists.
This whole episode is another indictment against "our" lost government.
We will wait and see if the government is NOT proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt.
The government has indicted itself AGAIN!
Arrested. Charged with MIGHT do something destructive. That goes right along with all the media reports put forth for years with meaningful words such as MIGHT and COULD. All crap. Well, it COULD be. Oh, and let's not forget that most important and equally overused AT RISK. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, if these evil plotters were not arrested your safety COULD be AT RISK. Lord knows, if anything is considered AT RISK, immediate action MIGHT be necessary.
ABSOLUTELY! Whoops! There's another one.
The testimonies from their friends are pretty worthless, after all what would you expect them to say. The fact that one of the guys that the testimonies say was non-violent has two previous arrest for violent crimes, one for pulling a knife on someone and the other for intentionally running into someone with his car tells me that these friends giving these testimonies may not know these people as well as they think.
It remains to be seen what evidence the government has against these three so I will withhold judgement on the current charges, but friends saying they would never do something like that is a little meaningless. I am surprised that MSNBC considers these types of self serving statements even worthy of publishing. Of course with MSNBCs typical agenda I guess I can see why they would support these protesters. If the charges turn out to be true than these three should do long prison sentences. Fire bombs do not discriminate and they could have hurt or killed a lot of innocent people.
Mike - be careful what you post - you might be indicted as an anarchist because of your Molotov cocktail recipe (stirrrred not shaken.)
On May 12, 2012 Obama quietly passed into law HR 347 giving the secret service sweeping powers to restrict free speech in areas where the President might be. It was passed quickly, w/o much debate, by Democrats and Republicans.
The law allows the secret service to establish 'no free speech zones' that would restrict all free speech. Violators can be charged with a felony and penalties of more than a year in jail. A protester with just a sign protesting the President can be arrested under this law by the secret service without cause!
While the Constitution prevents Congress from making laws restriticting free speech this law seems to do just that... and without due process. This is verifiable and can be checked out.
Perhaps these Chicago arrests were the first time this law has been put to use? Slowly but surely it seems our freedoms are being taken away.....
Except that the President wasn't in Chicago this weekend. He moved the summit to Camp David because of the protests? I too heard about this law on TV recently.
Then maybe we ought stand up its about time . The only way to get rid of an oppressive government is to stand up and fight it sounds grim but its true
So, their buddies who met them once, or don't even know their first name are surprised? Must be a conspiracy then, cuz I'll bet their parents are surprised too. Unless you're a really bad person, most of the people who spend time with you will be surprised if you plan something like this....
What was the point of this article, except to call into question the veracity of the accusations through paper thin character accounts? What's your goal here, media? You trying to create a story?
Obviously all of us are just speculating. However, the idea that middle class Americans that have worked hard their whole lives, followed "the rules" and are now being shut out of the American dream is more valid today than ever. " IF " these people are mad enough to follow through with these acts of violence---let me tell you they are just the tip of the iceberg.
I see a growing anger through middle class AMerica, I hear how frustrated moms at soccer practice and t-ball practice are this year. People can't drive to work ;gas has been too expensive for too long. Groceries are astronomical, getting their homes repaired is beyond their means Employers are cutting over-time by making everyone "salaried" and there is no recourse. THEN we read the news that the government is bailing out banks ---seriously banks? There are no new jobs, ----and the people we ELECT to run our country spit on us by using OUR tax dollars to bail out banks. Our elected leaders again ratify the patriot act ( President Obama once again approved) and they spy on us, our phones, our internet, our email and then they store personal data acting like citizens are the enemy so that you can't even get on a plane anymore without being physically molested----its just sick!
THE LAND OF THE FREE has become the land of the imprisoned.
(Wow, I might need to lay off the coffee :)
Look at the price of gas. it was higher four years ago. You may want to investigate what causes the prices to fluctuate. Most of that reason is due to the lack of refineries which haven't been built in years.
No doubt if a refinery was proposed for your area, you'd be up in arms.
A bunch of whiners who are pissed they aren't being given the world. Thinking up these actions surprises some? It's been done for years.
Occupy Fort Lauderdale?!!!!! LOL!!!!! I bet they had a huge impact on the financial district there. Oh, wait. There isn't a financial district unless you call the Charles Schwab and Edward Jones offices the financial district. I think I finally have these idiots figured out. Remember all the stories on the panhandling hippies in Seattle and other left leaning urban areas a few years ago? How they didn't want to work and figured they could make some money just sitting around begging? I also remember that the began to get aggressive and violent. That's who these choads are. The found something they could glom onto and get some free stuff. They can camp out and not worry about being chased off for a while. Combine them with a bunch of college kids who's brains have been packed full of crap from their radical progressive professors and this is the human goo you end up with. LOL! Occupy Fort Lauderdale....
Y'all buy this Cr@p? OMG! This was an attempt by the treasonist GOPeeps in Chicago. They planted instigators, they provided materials, then, being disappointed that the peaceniks don't want to fight, did a plant and a round up. Soooooooo transparent.
I read this morning where the city of Chicago is providing water and air conditioned "cool down" buses for the protesters. What kind of a crock is this?! Expending taxpayer dollars to essentially find a protest? In America we have the right to protest, but where is it written that the taxpayers need to underwrite the protests?! Let em bring their own water and ice and provide for their own cooling. Next weekend I and several thousand others will descend on the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for the Indy 500. We will take our own water and figure out how we will stay cool, because none of us expects the IMS to coddle us with free water and air conditioned tents.
Something doesn't add up here(?)!
And you can bet if these were tea party protesters there wouldn't be "cool down" buses.... Of course, the tea party protesters would be organized enough to provide their own (and at their own expense).
There is no doubt that our government treats liberal protests vastly different than conservative ones.
what is not being discussed, they are all facing a charge that Carry's a mandatory life imprisonment sentence; they will probably offer a compromise , and wind up with a 7-10 year sentence in a maximum security prison.
The administration has not really spoken out about the OWS crew nor the vast number of people who just show up at these events to appear as if they are conducting a peaceful protest but really it is an excuse to conduct wide-spread looting and rioting with the all too used phrase, "the cops were too aggressive.." Why has not President Obama come out and denouce the acts of the OWS crew? Maybe because he is counting on their vote. Maybe that is why the increase of the usage of "fair amount", "us vs them" and the "have and have not" is constantly used.
I like how some ask the question, "what a molotov cocktail is a bomb?" As if tossing a glass container of fuel which upon hitting something breaks apart and catches fire is not dangerous is extremely alarming. I guess IEDs should fall along the same lines as playing with fireworks, no harm done? The protest supporters seem to ignore their fellow anarchist among them. Within the circles of these protests they always seem alarmed and amazed that within the mass groups of people that they have wiped up emotional discourse with whoever, that someone is breaking windows and looting local stores. Instead of preventing such action the protestors get mad at the police for having to use force to disperse the crowd and when some protestor who is looting gets clocked in the head, the world of outrage is demanded by these people. How about policing up your own dirt-bags and then hand them over to the police instead of making excuses.
The Tea Party rally for all the media coverage of "gun-carrying fanatics" failed to bring any serious attention nor the need for countless hours wasted by public workers and law enforcement during their presentations and protest, yet the media would have you believe that everyone at those rallys were either a KKK member or some kind of heavily armed nutcase while the OWS crew has no central purpose other than to allow squatters a place to pitch their tent. I say let the OWS crew keep going, sooner or later the rest of the working class will get tired of their antics. Mom and dad will cut their funds and they'll have to actually get a job regardless if it doesn't meet up with their acquired degree.
NC open heart
The only problem with that theory is there isnt any gop in Chicago, just dems. History repeats itself, Obama and the Liberals have used the protesters and now its time to cut them down.. So try again and thanx for playing..
We need more info but testimonies of people knowing the players seem to indicate that the three arrested are not the type to commit terrorism and destruction.
Why? Because they seem like really, really nice people?
Here's some shock therapy: Jesus Christ is the answer for any problem being faced by any person on earth, right now.
When enough people, who are so concerned for their own backsides, start to fear God and serve Jesus Christ, then hope will begin. The only "Occupy Something" that will ever get results is when enough Americans allow Jesus Christ to "occupy " their hearts in sincerity.
If you are a skeptic, study the French Revolution to see the end of a Godless revolution.
Herald, entertaining, but flawed post you've got there. People who serve God out of fear are responsible for a great deal of the misery abroad in the land today. People who serve God out of belief are trying to clean up what the others have started. This instance looks like a situation where the government needed scapegoats to throw a good scare into others who might just protest too actively. There's been too little information to make an informed decision, let alone a religious one. I sincerely hope this isn't one of those cases where the charges evaporate shortly after the cause of the protest is over.
No one believes a damned thing the FBI says any more. The fact they'd ruin these unconvicted people's lives with these suspisciously clear and probably contrived pictures says they aren't interested in justice any longer. We need to de-fund your tyranical asses.
@Harold9
You're a moron ... plain and simple. Shock therapy my ass. Your make-believe god and imaginary jesus christ are the primary cause of all the problems we face today. Grow up and get over it.
What the ........ are you actually..... come on will you. I am a Christian, but a nonsensical statement does nothing to further Christianity. What people like yourself seem to forget somewhere along the line in life is that one can be a Christian, while living the life of a Christian and still think rationally and even make sense when posting in this type of a forum.
@Herald9:
Apparently, Jesus Christ didn't cure your stupidity.
Please explain how a man that lived and died 2000 years ago is either imaginary or the cause of our problems today? Can you please supply rational evidence that in any way support you claim?
Jesus taught a message of peace, love, tolerance and understanding for your fellow man. Other people such as Buddha, Lao Tzu and Confucius taught the same or similar things. Oddly enough at roughly the same time period. I fail to see how this discussion in any way reflects those ideals, even from the people who call themselves Christians.
Bill Ayers is a real nice person also, one of Obama's buddies...
But he founded the 'Weathermen Underground' and made bombs, that killed people and blew-up government buildings...
During a recent interview, he is still not remorseful and wished he had accomplished more... see http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2008/09/in-a-not-remote/
Quote from your link AC Robertson. Funny how it says the opposite of what you claim. Huh.
1. 1970: March: Three Weathermen are killed when bomb manufacturing goes awry...
2. A San Francisco police officer was killed and another seriously wounded by a Weathermen bomb in 1970... see http://www.mail-archive.com/sixties-l@googlegroups.com/msg01347.html
3. In 1980, Ayres and Dohrn surrendered and pleaded guilty to possession of explosives...
4. Bill Ayers stated in 2012,
“While we did claim several extreme acts, they were acts of extreme radicalism against property,” he said. “We killed no one and hurt no one. Three of our people killed themselves.”
Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/tny/2008/11/mr-ayerss-neighborhood.html#ixzz1vV3f359o
Bill Ayers among other things has a very selective memory.' Unfortunately, the POLICE committed errors that resulted in him walking FREE...
Actually I misread your comment. I thought you were implying he wished he had bombed more. You didn't. My bad.
Anyways, it has jack squat to do with this article. Methinks you brought it up so you could get in a jab at Obama simply because he know Ayers.
I wish people would stop the "Obama and Ayerss are close buddies" internet meme. You know it's not true. Seriously.
Investigations by The New York Times, CNN, and other news organizations concluded that Obama did not have a close relationship with Ayers.[2][3][4]
From Obama:
They served on a couple of boards together. That's it.
I think I see what's going on here. These guys might be every bit as bad as law enforcement claims, as I remain nuetral on the subject. People who knew of them have differing opinions. What is clear is that these individuals did a lot of protesting. When the occupy movements were mentioned, I remember reading post after post about how the veterans who were mistreated; of which at least one wasn't even involved, just in the wrong place at the wrong time and heading home...but these post went on and on about how these were bad apples from one perspective or another.
Come on...veterans? This is the only reason I accept, with great unease (only because it is their right), the veterans returning their medals in protest recently. Somewhere along the line, someone lost all sense of propriety.
I don't know what to make of these arrest, but I can tell you one thing. It doesn't always happen like it does in the movies.
Now there there is so much hateful rhetoric in America that even the hippies want to fight. Can we tone it down a little chicken hawks?
All I know is that the 5 terrorist will be doing some hard prison time. I have no problem with peaceful protest but the 5 that were arrested crossed the line.
If these 5 indidividuals are found guilty, I agree. Make no mistake.
Just as in the Martin Zimmerman case, no rush to judgement, no trial by press, please.
Jim, a little early to be calling it. We still don't know what happened. Cool your jets.
I'm willing to bet everything I've got that the F.B.I. is full of @!$%#. They're going back to their days under Hoover. Make up charges against people the government can't stand, which in this case, are people who are against NATO.
By the way, tell me someone, why the hell is there still a NATO? The whole point of that organization was to go against the Soviet Union, who doesn't even exist anymore. Why are we continuing to spend money on this crap?
Jim-2346602 : You are an Orwellian dream-come-true. Don't miss the two minutes hate. Don't forget that flag either, ok?
I think they were planning on doing it and there is plenty of evidence. I don't like these occupy, 99% or 1% protests. They are mainly illegal and waste more city and state money then help. If people need to get it out of there systems then I can understand but people will look back on it badly. Its like the hippies of the 60's but where’s the music and drugs? What did they fix so far? A $5 debt card charge with Bank of America! Was that really worth the thousands of dollars wasted on cleaning, feeding, policing, destruction repairs and traffic blocking, that they did. Is this really a “I want to fit in with the Middle East when we leave” sob story. Only after OBL was killed did this happen, so it seems to be about him and his death and the middle east and getting things back together. What ever people like till things get back on track but I don't like the protests and these men are guilty and should get in trouble.
James, Facts please. You sound like a nut.
What facts did I get wrong? I don't know and would like to be as up to date as you are. The government did try and persuade these three people arrested but why did they move there and why did they bring weapons that are illegal and what plans did they have without the help of the informants and governments help of weapon supplies. They may of thrown fire bombs at people this week or fought the US government with weapons and tried to get people drunk and use them for a riot. There is a lot left to think of and it should stand as a warning of the awareness of America and that people don’t really want you to attack the people and the government here.
I know that its early on what happened but I’m left thinking of the three U.S. students that were held for throwing Molotov cocktails in Cairo at the military. There names are Derrik Sweeney 19, Gregory Porter 19, and Luke Gates 21. They could have killed people and themselves been killed and they set a bad example of America. We don’t want people creating an uprising like in Egypt here. In Egypt, there were reasons why that happened and most felt good of there cause. In the U.S. we are at a stage where the people and the government are communicating and if Egypt had a government like ours, I’d think there would not of been an Egyptian uprising at all. Our government has done wonders with people who want to be al-Qaida and catching them and it is like that too. I’m not sure how much coercive behavior was involved but I’d think there was a lot of probability of these adults causing real problems so that the government got involved and it led to them wanting to attack the police and others in an attack on our country. I’ve never known anyone who really meant what they said or started to carry out a planned attack on our country as an anarchist before, I would not know someone like this. It just shows a slow growing but seen danger of this Occupy movement and what people who want to be a part of it are doing and might do.
Another incident with undercovers provoking 'normal' people into doing radical things. I hope these guys get a good lawyer and prove this whole case is just ANOTHER attempt to smear the Occupy/labor movments.
I will not judge these people until there is more factual evidence to base my opinion on.. but this plot, and others that are similar in nature, seem to be the workings of the undercover officers coopting, even entrapping, protesters. Think about it like this, if there are so many plots that are being 'discovered' by undercovers, why hasnt there been a single legitimate incident where protestors have actually used b-ombs??
For now I will just go ahead say this smells like a smear campaign by local/state/federal law enforcement.. Theyre tactics seem very similar to those used by tyrannical govs in the middle east and despots of the past. I think the public would be more shocked by the number of undercovers and the amount of resources that are expended to CONTROL these occupy events.. And that in itself is a VERY VERY scary thought. Free Speech..??
There hasnt been any precedent for law enforcment to use these kinds of tactics.. If I were taking part in these Occupy movements I would stick to a small group of friends just to avoid getting caught up in some type of entrapment-like scheme..
What about the Tea-party people? Theyre made up of the NRA, far-right, religous extremist type. Timothy McVeigh would be a member of the tea party if he were alive today.
Obviously the majority of both of these groups are non-violent and just want to take a part in a movement, but I bet you wont find a single undercover at the tea party rallies.. and I think if law enforcement were treating these groups equally we would be reading about some right-wing militia nuts planning something radical and it would be way more believable than this crap.
xander, I was with you until you got to the Tea Party rant. The Tea Party is a foreseeable offshoot of what people see as a complete failure of our government to come to grips with anything but their own partisan politics. Their agenda isn't perfect by any matter of means, far from it, but it is an attempt to create something that voters can use as a rallying point. Here's hoping there are many more like it in the future that support a variety of political beliefs. Tim McVeigh blew up a pre-school and killed a lot of others in the same building. He was tried and got precisely what he deserved. To the best of my knowledge he didn't espouse any real politics other than anarchy.
Just proves how stupid liberals are. It's the Tea Party that protested peaceably, cleaned up after themselves, and used the ballot box. McVeigh would be part of the leftist OWS crowd, just like these bombers.
OWS members caught building bombs and McVeigh is like the Tea Party? I'll say it again, liberals are allergic to critical thinking.
Actually, Valhyalla, you have it backwards. It's been my experience that conservatives and tea partiers are the ones with no critical thinking ability whatsoever. This is such a nuts statement it's funny! Brings to mind one of your heros....Sarah Palin. There aren't many people on the planet as dumb and lacking in any critical thinking as she is. The list goes on. Michelle Bachman perhaps, or then there is Rick Perry, or dare I say it, Mitt Romney! LOL
Phil,
According to the defense, the kids didn't make any bombs, the undercover cops brought premade Molotovs to the apartment, then the other cops kicked in the door.
Also,
Bright Minds and Dark Attitudes
I could see them agreeing to something stupid, pushed by undercover cops, but with no follow through as to the act. That would be an awful lot of bombing and bomb making for 3 people. 4 police stations, the mayors house and Obama's Campaign headquarters? They would need a lot of help, most likely from their new "friends" the undercover cops who suggested and planned the whole thing. If that is the case, we all better watch out.
A buddy of mine was in the occupy thing, spray painted some windows and then got turned in to the cops by fellow occupiers who had egged him/her on to do the deed after getting them drunk. Of course they all ran away with their tails between their legs and this person went to jail. Was it dumb? Certainly! Was it terrorism that deserved being picked up by federal marshals? No.
Rick Scott = Tea Party
He stole 1 BILLION dollars defrauding a program that is made to HELP people. After he steals this money he has the balls to try and tell me that I have to work HARD for him and the other people that stole money? B.S. After he stole 1 BILLION DOLLARS of tax payer money. Let me steal 1 billion dollars and I would have plenty of money too. Let me sell me soul for money and I would have plenty of it.
The people of Florida are dumb enough to elect Rick Scott to office, WTF? How could someone like him even run for office and have control over the police? The police are dumb enough to follow "the rules" even though they go against everything this country was founded on. Can someone fire up the revolution already and let us get this Godless killing spree underway that needs to happen since the 90% of the people at the bottom and the 1% at the top are ALL TOO STUPID? They are addicts or are so conditioned that they are nothing more then Pavlov's Dog, drool drool drool
"Just proves how stupid liberals are. It's the Tea Party that protested peaceably, cleaned up after themselves, and used the ballot box. McVeigh would be part of the leftist OWS crowd, just like these bombers."
God I love you tea party folks who go on and on about what fine law-abiding citizens you are while naming your movement after a group of felons who destroyed property while in disguise.
And Tim McVeigh was a leftist? Are you kidding me?
@valhalla- McVeigh as a liberal? He blew up a FEDERAL building and hated the government for the way it worked (especially those in gov who were here to help others..).
Yes, the tea party uses 'ballots' to try and get rid of government (isnt that a conondrum..), but the Occupy movement does and will too. OWS is a progressive movement that, at its core, wants to create a fairly structured system of government. The Tea Party movement, at its core, literally wants to pull government regulations on everything Democrats (and Republicans) have put into law since 1776. I know im exaggerating there but you catch my drift.. They do these things under the guise of wanting to start a democracy from scratch. Guess who benefits from the TP movement? Big business and rich families. It doesnt benefit or help in any way the people who take part in it.
The Occupy movement doesnt clean up after itself? How can they if theyre kicked off public property without a warning? Thats like saying you cleaned everything out of your house after it caught fire...
Apparently many TPers are starting to figure out theyre just pawns for big oil, etc who want to make a dollar and keep every bit of it without giving a dime back to the government that allows them to do business fairly. The Koch brothers started the TP movement while the Occupy movement was started by groups of young activists who wanted to counter the biggest spenders in Washington (over $120mln by the Koch bros alone over the past 10 years.) Do some research before making such outlandish and baseless comments.
PS- You should be scared of undercover tactics like this. I dont do anything that would be considered 'wrong' and I am more worried about fed/state/local law enforcement now more than ever. Apparently all of the OWS protestors are terrorists now.. right..?
Young and dumb and full of cum is about as dangerous as this crew will ever rate. They were a bigger threat to themselves and their fellow protesters as anyone. "Dude, don't drop the gasoline filled glass bot..." WHOOSH! Mob mentality, beer muscles and youthful idealism and maybe a little prodding by an informant got them where they are. Too bad, so sad.
No one believes a damned thing the FBI says any more. The fact they'd ruin these unconvicted people's lives with these suspisciously clear and probably contrived pictures says they aren't interested in justice any longer. We need to de-fund your tyranical asses.
There is not enough info to draw any conclusions...but this does sound trumped up. I will admit being somewhat biased given the police state that we are becoming. It just seems like most of the violence coming out of the occupy movements has been the police being overly aggressive against unarmed activists...just saying. But I can see how a beer bong or something might seem like a terrorist device. Look what happened to Harold and Kumar.
Well said, SanityCheck.
I find this so peculiar. This is an all volunteer force, there is no draft, nobody said you have to go to war.
I'm not convinced these people are actual soldiers. I view them as the sad sacks, the ones who didn't fit in or those who simply can't cut it. It's like a distant (thank god) and of no blood relative of mine who joined up and has continued to play the system. He seems to have this severe knee injury every time deployment comes around. He has done this twice and has never left the states after 4 years in. He will be receiving his dis-honorable discharge soon.
Personally, I really worry for the future of our country, too many of these kids are just pansy's, now the gay population has entered. Throwing sparkler's isn't going to win a war.
Or the ones who figured out that Afghanistan and Iraq were nothing but money making schemes.
Look up documentaries on YouTube about companies such as Halliburton. Huge defense contracts, and they were overcharging us for doing crap work. Making $100,000 a year while our soldiers risked their lives for pennies compared to it.
I'd be pissed too.
So you are mad kids aren't entering the armed forces but when a gay person does, (mind you they are signing up maybe to die) they are useless!? Throwing sparklers? I am quite sure, you dumb bigot, that many a gay person could kick your ass up down the street with no problem.
I heard there are some buff boys out there, I've never seen one. All the ones I've ever met one could wipe up the floor with without breaking a sweat.
Gay valor will be tested in combat, I would expect to find them cowering under the vehicle the enemy is targeting. Sorry, but when you think gay you don't think hardcore soldier even after the "Village People."
Maybe they'll only compete with the women's role, we'll see.
My problem is the unfairness of being put in a unit with any one of them. Where are the rights for the straight men? I catch you checking me out in the shower you will go down the drain understood?
It's like putting a child molester in charge of the day care.
If you want to make threats, bring it. I can still bend 16 GA steel with one hand if that tells you anything, Heavy don't mean marshmallow.
Oh my Gawd. There is seriously something wrong with you. Get help. As I am a woman and you are a big stong man, I won't threaten you as you probaly have no qualms about beating women. Get over yourself.
This is no different than the 1960's when the people marched in protest of the Vietnam war. Chicago was the bloody site of police brutality at the Democratic national convention. Times change, but the American police state does not.
There's a reason why religious cultists and left-wing organizations skulk around college campuses:
a vast pool of credulous and easily converted youth.
Their brains and belief systems have not been fully formed you see.
Same thing can be said of their defenders.
An ageing leftist, veteran of the tumorous '60s, said once:
"Each Generation rediscovers revolutionary politics"
Yeah, they also rediscover Heroin, but that don't make it right neither.
P.S. I live in Chicago
You also post on /pol/.
The truth is that "police" are not simply policing the city streets these days. They are engaging in covert activities against American citizens at an alarming rate. The "police" mentality of "us against them" has become the primary mindset in OUR cities and towns. The militarization of police is not reflected in their uniforms alone as they train in urban warfare openly and considering there hasn't really been an attack by foreign nationals or a terrorist sect that has ever been proved as such then the logical conclusion would be that they are preparing for actions against the civilian population. People will respond with comments like "oh so you aren't paranoid are you" or "right and the government is responsible for 9/11 too I bet". I would have to reply that these "urban forces" are being prepared for anything from natural disasters to the total collapse of the US monetary system due to the abuses our government allowed to go on without intervention on the peoples behalf, rather they assisted these thieves in their pillage of the hard earned assets of the average citizen, something people are going to be willing to fight about if the government doesn't eventually come to the aid of the people. If not these urban soldiers know as cops are already primed with a hatred for the "scum bag" on the street they deal with, which in reality is ANYONE they encounter in their day to day work period. How many instances of "police shoot man during domestic dispute call", or "man with history of mental illness shot dead" , "man shot during traffic stop", these are all examples of people killed in the Puget Sound area in the past few months that had no weapons and no history of violence and they were all killed and nothing has been done about it to date. These are definitely just a small number of the actual instances of people being killed by the people charged with the well being of the public. This is not to say all Police are against the public or that they are all evil. The fact is there are Police that are genuinely dedicated to serving the public and really care about the law being applied in an equitable manner, but I really am sad to say they are now the minority from what I have seen. There are many police that won't hesitate to set a civilian up in any number of cases and I can say this after witnessing this kind of action first hand. To say that police undercover officers brought the "bombs" to the location where these guys were arrested is very likely the case and a regular tactic employed by these thugs. And I say thugs because ANYONE that employs tactics like the ones mentioned are no longer police, they are thugs as definitely as they have become the same Scum they have hated so deeply and deserve to be treated as such.
Guess this is a case the courts must decide. It's hard to commit either way. Mis-fits would be a better name then this new creation of the word "terrorist." We drone terrorist and arrest mis-fits. Scared they won't get a fair trial using the word "terrorist." Still what do I know, actually nothing. Guess we all will know more later.
As I stated earlier this year reguarding the simularities to the Haymakers Tragedy and the current state of the OWS movement :
8 men were found guilty and senanced to death soley based on ccucumstancial evidence and has been noted previously as the single most unjudicial act in the history of the american court system.
Another reason why an across the board vote to clean house in all levels of government ! Regarding the Summit and our tax dollars used to subsidize Afghanistan is another theft or transfer of our wealth to a foreign government.
Thanks to our occupation of Afghanistan, 11 years ago it was only 8 percent of the opium drug MFG, now it is 90+ percent, thus they are making 100's of billions of dollars on a regular basis. They can afford to pay their own bills..And this is their economy and the product they produce.. It is another lie...
What I find amazing is that they didn't actually do anything but were still arrested. We've moved from a country where you actually had to harm an individual to a country where someone told us you were thinking about doing something wrong so we're going to arrest you just in case. The only people that have been consistently violent in all the protests over the past year have been the police. How is this a free or just country anymore?
Even if the charges are dropped or they are found innocent, they still had to be subjected to interrogations, jail conditions, worry about legal fees and suffer the indignity and emotional trauma of it all. Those things alone make many innocent people plead out just so they will have a foreseeable end to it all.
Problem is, they'll sue and probably settle out of court, and the taxpayers will foot the bill for the Federal Bureau of Incredulousness, who will continue to pull this crap in the future.
You're only a terrorist when you don't support what they want, and they WILL find a way to prosecute you for something you haven't done.
I wouldn't just settle for cash, if I were them I'd want the two undercovers fired.
Sound like dumb asses that probably are not capable of doing anything anyway. So the FBI or someone has informants in the "Occupy" movement and probably the teabaggers also. It really is a police state. I am an old white guy that has nothing in common with the occupy movement or the teabaggers but they used 9/11 to pass the patriot act and they have used that to build a police state. Get rid of the DEA, FBI, GAO etc., they have all lost the most basic concept of being public employees, that is they work and serve the public, you and I.
Weekend In Chicago
I used to live in Florida, I protested the I 84 freeway that cut through South Florida. it was a shame to see them building a flat roadway cutting through pristine everglades. I was arrested spent a week, never charged.
No days they dont need a reason and they ( law enforcement ) can say anything they choose, and hold that person or persons indefinitely. so called Patriot Act.
Ive protested several other projects... I helped save the Yaquina Bay and estuary from being another ship breaking wasteland. and in 1999 helped save 5400 acres of green way and wildlife that were on the endangered list from being destroyed., along the Willamette River
What we KNOW is that nine people were picked up in Bridgeport on a warrant that at least seems to have been questionable. Three or four have been released; two or three were police informants; three are jailed on a bond of $1.5 million each, on charges that could put them in prison for as much as 85 years.
What we DON'T KNOW is whether the NATO 3 or the informants (a) came up with the idea of Molotov cocktails, (b) bought the gasoline, and (c) poured the "cocktails." The same police informants ("Mo" and "Gloves") were also involved with two other young men now charged with bomb-related terrorism charges.
We ALSO know that Molotov cocktails are more frequently a tool of VANDALISM than a tool of TERRORISM. Yes, a Molotov cocktail can certainly harm a human being who's in its path as it explodes. But MOST Molotov cocktails are thrown at empty buildings and most of the harm they create is property damage. In particular, Molotov cocktails are NOT good at achieving the prime goal of terrorism: creating so MUCH random bodily injury that the incident frightens civilians into changing their behavior. So anyone -- the NATO 3 or CPD Supt. McCarthy or State's Attorney Alvarez -- who argues that Molotov cocktails are serious terrorist weapons doesn't know much about terrorism...or about Molotov cocktails!
Yea a 'dust bomb' is much more effective... Ha! Ha!
Ask any farmer about silo explosions...
Or ask a soldier which he would rather face a IED or fire bomb...
Get back with us when you know something about the subject...
Well, I seldom agree with AC, but I'm going to have to go with him on this one. I and some friends experimented with Molotov cocktails when I was 15. If you throw them right you can potentially do a lot of harm. There are also some fairly simple variations in construction and ingredients that can make them more effective. The thing that makes me believe this is entrapment is, they never went out and practiced throwing any. That would seem to be something that any one would do, during the planning phase.
Oh yeah, apparently the cops were aware that we were throwing Molotov cocktails, because they mentioned it to my parents later. They must have just checked out what we were doing and decided to leave us alone. Of course the place we were doing it in was nothing but cement, so there was no chance of burning anything down, but we went a lot farther than these kids did, and we never got arrested, or even spoken to.
Advising people to fear God and follow Jesus Christ doesn't seem very helpful today. Today's Christians are hateful and mean for the most part. If anyone is different from them, they're put in the hated box. They only want conformity at any cost.
Gee! What a cyute puppy picture!
He must be such a kind and wonderful fellow.
The Cops Done Right....ZERO TOLERANCE for bombers....Put this antisocial turd away as well as any others who want to destroy our society....