We will just have to wait and see won't we. Could be result from elder abuse.

self defense

It takes very little to hurt a 74 yr old grandmother. They get bruised easily and have fragile bones. Just a push and if they fall and break their hip, its a automatic death sentence. Not much she can do with a 17 yr old troubled youth that's been kicked out of school and abuses drugs. Except a 40 caliber handgun. Great equalizer

While the parent fiddled away in the sun in Arizona, junior terrorizes the neighborhood and the poor grand parents. THAT little ass hole belonged in jail or a reformatory, NOT shuttled off to his grand parents. Daddy certainly had to know what was going on with his "demon seed." It's a shame it had to come to this. The only positive is that junior was pumped full of lead and will be worm food shortly.

I don't know why she tell her son or daughter that he was being abusive, and wanted him out of the house. She also has a husband? Why didn't she have him do something about getting the kid out?

Don't get me wrong, the kids sounds like a Grade-A punk, but unless he was beating her right then, she didn't have to take it that far.

We may want to wait for the evidence to come out before jumping to conclusions. Look what happened in the TM/Zim case. Maybe Gram-ma went crazy. Eight shots to the chest is a little bit of overkill...

Waldo: "Demon seed?" I think you've seen one too many horror flicks.

drugs and drug paraphernalia? so basically a 17 year old is smoking pot? you probably would too if you had to live with your grandparents. god only knows how strict they probably were with him. he was probably going through a hard time with his parents divorcing and leaving him behind. probably wouldve been best if she had gotten him some therapy instead of pumping bullets into him.

I am all for discipline, but I don't think eight to the chest qualifies as "discipline," and a family member at that. How does a family break down so much that they start killing each other? It's tragic and very hard to understand. Divorce or not, the mother and father should have benn focused on their child. Probably too wrapped up in their new lovers

Grandma wasn't all that frail to be handling a .40 caliber handgun, and as many shots as she made, was, no pun intended, overkill. She was/is off her rocker. If she felt that the grandson was THAT much of a threat, she should have called 911 like the grandson did after he'd already been shot once, or try to make other arrangements for him stayin' somewhere else. HANG this ol' lady, simply because she's nuts, and will never be a productive part of society, and it saves taxpayers a bunch of money. Does anybody realize a .40 caliber can penetrate most engine blocks from a car??? She went WAY overboard. Hang her, and I'll pay for the rope!!! Sorry that the kid was killed, and mostly because he was killed by someone he trusted and was family. RIP Jonathan....hopefully the "justice system" will favor you and not a nutjob that took your life in cold blooded murder.

What it sounds like is that another bum of a new millenia kid got shot by someone that just didn't know how to cope with the idiot. Contrary to some of the comments on this blog, some people truly DO need to be friggin erased from the human species if they cease acting human. How does a retired teacher and grandmother morph into a person that kills another - only two reasons; she was either terrified, terrorized, or not in control of her behavior. This IS tragic, but I'm sure there is much more to this story, but sadly, when all is said and done, it will probably be the kid that has destroyed his entire family by being a drug using fool.

The facts of this case are easy to see. Grandma said NO to an a$$ whipping. At age 74, who can say she was wrong?

The Elderly looks at life differently than the youngins. Maybe the kid was sharing drugs with others, contributing to the decline of our Society. Maybe the Grandmother was suffering from some form of dementia. We also have to remember the old saying which in this case is by proxy "I brought you into this world and I can take you out".

There needs to be a special category in the Darwin awards for cases like these. Look at the Gramma, Dad, and Grandson...

Take them out of the gene pool.

As usual almost everyone on this board is able to determine the facts without any REAL information. I must say there is a particul;arly cold, glum bunch out this morning. I guesss after disposing of the Trayvon MArtin case with no ino this is an easy to solve.

There have been many cases of a Fellon being hit 10 to 15 times in the head and chest and still killing the police officer before dieing. Where were mom and dad? There son is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY not grandma's. Drugs can do strange things to some people. Not everybody reacts the same. I have seen people in Height Ashbury SF have a great time on ACID and others go off the wall with the same dose at the same party. 80 yrs old means she can't take much trauma before she is given a death sentence. And we have trained 8 year old's to be quite competent with a .45 auto, so don't think an old person can't shoot well. So wait for all the evidence to come in. Remember the news is mostly lies and inaccuracies. They are out to sell time and space not tell the truth.

So she kept shooting him while he was on the phone to 911??????

What's wrong with this picture???????

I'm wondering exactly WHO was the one out of control??????

He was a teenager having trouble, you get him help, you don't shoot him.

How about a shocking thought... maybe mom and dad should be held responsible. After all they left an emotionally troubled teenage with a history of domestic disturbance in the hands of a frail elderly woman who probably had a number of medical problems due to her age. And for those who question my stating the boy had emotional troubles and a history of domestic disturbance go back and read the article the police were called and stated he was out of control in the street at the time they arrived. In my book good old mom and dad were not only guilty of child abuse but also elder abuse for placing both the teenager and the grandmother in a situation that they couldn't cope with. You breed 'em you raise 'em... and btw this is from a woman who along with 5 other children was raised by her elderly grandmother who did a great job but deserved better as did my cousins, brother and I.

There is a lot more to this story. I want to know more about the trick bullets used. Grandma allegedly shoots grandson eight times. There were 8 entry and exit wounds and two bullets found in the body. Huh?

He may have been a punk and she may have been afraid. That does not justify murder. She had shot him in the chest. He was callin 911 for help. She shot a severely injured person, who was not threatening or able to threaten her physically. Repeatedly. Ten times! She should go to jail for whatever remains of her miserable life. That ked became who he was because of his rearing at the hands of her daughter, her son-in-law, and, yes, herself and grandpa! He wasn't born bad. The family, who was supposed to raise him up failed, miserably. Guilty!

If mom and dad dropped off the kid knowing his history of violence and drug abuse at a 74 y/o womans home they were just dumping their respondsibilitys of raising the kid on her. What do you thing the kid thought? A: I'd better be good at grandmas house or she'll tell mom and dad, or B: Screw the old b#tch, I'll do what I want or beat the crap out of her. He was probably stealing from her, money and stuff to pawn. Bad news for all. There is a large group of grown up kids who still see ol' mom and dad as instant babysitters no matter the age or temperment of "junior".

John737278. Eight entry and exit wounds, two bullets inside the body. The rest of the bullets "exited" the body.

Here again, we have a limited fact pattern as given by the reporter. Much insinuation is being delivered at the hands of my fellow Newsviners. There is an awful lot of extrapolation going on here. Why don't we wait for the full report before we rush to judgement. I'm sure there is a lot more than meets the eye.

If Johnathan also had a gun, this wouldn't have happened...

I don't think shooting someone while they are calling 911 asking for help because they were already shot once qualifies as self-defense.

You use whatever force is necessery to stop the threat. I'm pretty sure when he backed off and called 911 begging for help, that the threat had subsided.

too many stupid people breeding....

Who knows. Maybe she thought she saw the devil and since he didn't die or at least fall down from the first bullet her suspicions could have been confirmed in her mind.

Or maybe they got in an argument and when she went for the gun he could have made a threat that if she didn't kill him he would kill her.

We don't know what really happened in that house so let the court handle it and not make this another Martin/Zimmerman media spectacle.

One thing for sure. This story is making me have second thoughts about my 40 cal. auto. Of course I'm using hollow point bullets so they would have more stopping power than her possible target bullets that exited the body.

something that youth never seem to learn..............don't f*ck with older people. They will always have more time and experience to make sure that karma comes sooner, rather than later.

@Ronald Hussein

I am amused by your comment that there is a cold, glum bunch of commenters on this story. Please explain the sunny, cheerful part of this article. I may have missed that part.

What chemicals were found in this young mans system??

A 74 year old woman VS a 17 year old man, would not be much competition..

Sigh. Read the article again ktlin and try to apply reading comprehension skills. "Layne stood mute in court when the charge was read, and a not guilty plea was entered on her behalf."

@ William Root...

Closing the borders won't stop drugs. We have meth labs and pot fields all over our country. We need to stop drugs and secure, not close, the borders. But securing the borders won't stop drugs. It's a very complex problem.

Older people unarmed, are defenseless against youthful aggression.

Divorces are disasters to extended families. Boarding an uncontrillable male youth with a fearful Grandmother caused this confrontation to turn deadly.

Turn her loose in this case of self-defense.

don't shoot me meemaw!

I agree with all the comments regarding the number of shots. 8 in the chest - entirely too many. 2 in the chest and one in the head would have more than sufficed.

"...I don't understand how being aggressive but unarmed would justify her using deadly force," Hoffman said..."

Size matters. Size on drugs even more so.

Can we all wait for the Toxicology report please? If this kid was dusted, then the act was clearly one of self defense. Some on on dust or a drug similar, is about as hard to stop as an eleaphant.

My Mother is 74. She is 5 feet tall and weights not much.

My 16 year old son is 6'3" and weights in at 180 pounds of solid muscle. He could easily throw her out a window. My 14 year old is 6'1" and is 160 pounds of muscle and could easily harm her. Very easily!!

Before we judge the actions of the elderly grandmother, lets get some furhter details. She had a gun for some reason and felt complelled to use it!!

Adrenaline and shock will explain a lot of things.

A good friend had to shoot his son, similiar situation, Son was beating Mom to death, nearly did, then turned on Dad. Dad shot him in the head , dead. Teens can turn violent on drugs or not and can be deadly. Grandma was left in charge of a ticking time bomb, not saying she had to kill him but she obviously was very scared for her life.

73 year old grandparents should not be asked to care for teenage grandchildren. their job should be done after raising their own children. it seems parents today when encountering difficulty just assume the grandparents should take over. what happened to '' i raised mine now you raise yours''. the parents created the problem and then dumped it on the grandparents. something extreme was happening in that home for this to end up a murder.

Maybe he came into the apartment wearing a hoodie ..............

If she could fire a .40 eight times she wasn't THAT frail. If you have ever fired that weapon, you would know how powerful it is. I can't even imagine a 74 year old woman firing a .40 one time! Wow... She had to have been full of adrenaline to have the strength to pull that off.

After years of abuse....Granny fired several warning shots to the chest to get the whippersnapper's attention

Sounds like the kid was using crack, but I think I will wait for the reports to come out before I make a decision un like the rest of you I was not their, I will have to wait for the evidence to be collected and presented. I wish I was as clairvoyant as some of the other posters.

How much misery caused by drugs will be enough before we demand the border be secured?

PERHAPS if there ENFORCEABLE regulation in place, instead of this foolish failure of a 'War on Drugs,' the dealer he bought it from might have CARDED him before he bought them.

As it is, drugs are in EVERY school in America, what has FORTY YEARS of this miserable 'War on Drugs' done for us? Another dead kid, another failure of the DEA.

There's nothing in this artical that indicates the teen was violent with granny on this occasion, no prior police reports of this teen being violent against granny, and no reported injuries to granny. Sorry people, not wanting to go to school isn't abuse, and verbal abuse doesn't justify homicide. The hag smiling in court is very telling.

I don't condone what the Grandmother did, but, I understand and know first hand how someone can become enraged and violent when confronted about drug abuse (sounds like maybe this might have been a factor). I feel so sorry, for the family, that this happened and that the grandmother felt the need to defend herself in that manner. Let the facts come out before the speculations start.

Hey, this is all just speculation...you don't know...maybe he had it coming...

You can only tell someone so many times to take out the garbage ... then you have to take action!!!

@ Kim: Have you ever had to deal with an out of control teen? I have and they think that they are not only right in their thought process but justified by ther means as well and that means by "any means necessary". You may want to think about what you throw out there because if you dont have the experience, then it is only your opinion.

The kid was in an alternative school, that means he could not conform to a regular classroom/school environment. The police had shown up and the teen was "out of control" and "disrespectful to his grandparents".. Does that justify shooting? Maybe she thought so and wrapped up in emotion? She probably would have shot him more if there was more bullets. She probably does not remember anything about all shots fired

So was he shot ten times, or eight?? Not very clear as written.

The fact that he was on the phone with 911 and she shot him while he was telling the dispatcher that he was going to die will make it hard to call this self defense. Maybe it started as self defense before he called 911 but after he called 911 for help and she continued to pump rounds in him will make it murder especially since he was on the phone with 911 when one of the bullets where put in him. Plus it's not going to help her that she told the responding officers that she murdered her grandson. She flat out admitted it to police. Also that she fired 8 shots will most likely work against her as she continued to shoot after she had wounded him severely enough to call 911. I'm also not sure that yelling at and being derogatory towards are the same thing as physically attacking her. A lot of people yell when they get upset(although I'm sure there are many who will pretend they don't). That doesn't automatically mean they are going to get physical. I also find it suspect that they don't say what drug was found. If it was coke, crack, heroin, or meth I have do doubt that would have been reported. I'm betting that he had some weed which would make it even more unlikely that he attacked her in a drug fueled rage.

Comment 1.7 got collapsed... Really people??? By asking for people to wait for evidence before jumping to conclusions it gets collapsed. Wow, just wow!

Sorry folks...if you aren't 70+ and have had to deal with "disposed-of" teens/grand-kids from "disagreeing" parents...you do not know what you're talking about. We are the generation of the "cold war". We were raised under the threat of the "nuclear mushroom cloud". We were drilled to respond to instruction for survival...SURVIVAL!

So, we do not take kindly to people who demonstrate a lack of respect for authority. We do our best to "help" raise our grand-kids...we LOVE them dearly...BUT DO NOT DISRESPECT US! Kill...maybe not...survive, YOU BET YOUR ASS!

give it a rest-----grandmother should have requested the boy be taken into protective custody given the boys history of out of control behavior. i too will wait for evidence----now will i get collapsed?

It's been a long time since I studied arithmetic, but if there were 8 exit and entry wounds, and 2 bullets found in the body, didn't she shoot 10 times?

Or, if by 8 exit and entry wounds, the writer means 4 entry and 4 exit, with 2 still in the body...she would have shot 6 times.

Not that it matters, obviously...just pointing out the quality of today's journalism!

Lets assume he was cranked out, bouncing off the walls screaming and acting stupid and Granny had enough, hes out of control and needs to be sedated before hurting someone, Granny makes a split decision to remove him from the gene pool knowing this kid should never be allowed to reproduce, she may have done society a favor. It took over three minutes to fire 10 shots from a .40 cal auto I wonder what kind of drugs could have been involved to keep him on his feet or did Granny just stand there and keep shooting him to make sure he would never be a threat to anyone again this will be a interesting case. maybe we need to put her back into the class room. she can make a difference to society, she will weed out those bad seeds before they contaminate the rest of the crop.

If we legalize drugs in 24 hrs drug dealers will be out of business . People won't die of overdose or bad batches of drugs. It can be regulated in pharmacies, and of course you would have to be an adult to buy.They did a test in a drug invested city for a year gave all the drugies doses that were regulated , crime went down over night , it worked, but of course that was as far as it went.

This was an honor killing. It's no different from the middle eastern guy that ran over his daughter because she started to like boys.

Why are the hardliners from previous generations cheerleading the death of a young adult? Sorry but after someone has been shot 3 times and is calling 9/11 for help, there is absolutely zero justification for pulling the trigger 5 more times. What I see on this board is outright generational warfare. How sick is a society when it encourages the murder of its youth?

I feel bad for the entire family. I was just priviledged to see my grandchildren on Skype yesterday and wished so much to be able to hold them right now and cannot. Stationed Far away. I can't imagine this.

The guy was shot 4 times with a .40 caliber bullet and didn't die.....I don't know about the rest of you, but that sounds a lot like a person on a PCP trip...remember Rodney King? And how do we know he was unarmed the whole time? And if she had a gun, isn't it possible that there were more guns in the house? Perhaps he knew where the guns were. Perhaps he ran to the room where the guns were and picked up the phone to call the cops. If I had a whacked out teenager running for my gun locker and I had a loaded weapon, damn skippy I'd pump an entire clip into him.

I love how society lays blame so quick, but when it turns out the convicted criminal is actually innocent, those very same people lay blame on the failed justice system for ruining the lives an innocent person.

I'm not claiming this woman is innocent, but right now she's being convicted by the media, not by a court when the facts are presented.

Well he's wearing a hoodie in the picture. Who can blame her?

Blame the kid! Blame the parents! Blame the drugs! Blame Mexicans! Quick blame anyone and everyone other than the person that pulled the trigger.

Why can't senior citizens accept responsibility for their actions?

Never ...... Ever tell Grandma you don't like her homemade cookies .....

How sad for everyone involved. I would love to see what's in the tox report, also hear the 911 call. if he is still talking clearly with all those shots in him clearly he has some sort of poweful drugs in him. I do believe that if the parents couln't control him the last place he should have been sent is to a grandparents house. They say he was in special schooling already which means he couldn't adjust to normal high school either, why were their not other programs involved for this young man before his life was cut so short. It isn't just one person here it's many that failed him. He was just 17, I myself have a 17 year old son and they are more then a handful but I couldn't imagine ever turning my back on him or letting him bring me to the point of pointing a gun at him. So sorry for everyone here.

teens can be dangerous & often kill; bad seed, there is such thing..too bad, smart grandma did not move him Out earlier, that would have saved a lot of grief..heated emotions, with violence,,,,ughhh..

If we want to begin to stop all the dangerous drugs coming into our country, why not start with the Poppy fields in Afghanistan??? Just a thought.

jeesus... I used to play scrabble and go golfing with my grandmother...

"While the parent fiddled away in the sun in Arizona, junior terrorizes the neighborhood and the poor grand parents. THAT little ass hole belonged in jail or a reformatory, NOT shuttled off to his grand parents. Daddy certainly had to know what was going on with his "demon seed." It's a shame it had to come to this. The only positive is that junior was pumped full of lead and will be worm food shortly."

embellish much? You've seemed to imagined and assumed a lot.

Her husband was not likely at home at the time, otherwise, why would she shoot the kid, and if she is frail, as she has been described, the fact that he was not armed makes no difference, she could still have felt threatened by him. I would have opted to shoot him in the leg or some other place debilitating but not necessarily life threatening. Getting away from him would have been her plan, right? Too bad about it all. She will not see prison at her age, or it will be minimum security.

"The guy was shot 4 times with a .40 caliber bullet and didn't die.....I don't know about the rest of you, but that sounds a lot like a person on a PCP trip...remember Rodney King?"

Oh my god what a retard you are.

1. Rodney King wasn't even shot once

2. PCP will not keep you alive

3. You have no idea what went on there so stop taking little snippets of a story and blowing it into something its not.

This is just an attempt at explaining the "eight and two" problem. I have fired ten rounds at a target made of paper and only left one connected hole. I believe she may have emptied the ten round clip of her pistol,whereas two of the projectiles went into the same holes.This could explain why.

spelllcheck - I meant that everyone is so suppoprtive of grandma shooting the kid - practicallly cheeering her on. I know apppearance don't count for muych but I had a visceral feeeeling of sadness when I saw the kid's face; he could hav beeen one of my son's friends. I don;'t know the facts in th case but reading allll the gung ho shoot 'em up posts is cold and grim to me. It's occurred to me that some people seem like they're in favor of shooting in almost any set of circumstances.

"The facts of this case are easy to see. Grandma said NO to an a$$ whipping. At age 74, who can say she was wrong?"

The Facts? Pssst that isn't a fact in this story its something you made up in your mind and that is a FACT.

Don 20xx - Why can't teens accept responsibility for their actions? Why can't parents of teens accept responsibility for their actions? Trust me, there's a lot of blame to go around in this situation.

Something like only 5% of bullet wounds are instantly fatal. Hollywood doesn't tell you that.

BTW - All that horse manure about PCP turning people into superhuman killing machines is just an urban myth. Does it make people act crazy? Sometimes. Does it magically protect people from bullets or allow them to defy the laws of physics? Hardly.

Judy - Who said the teen didn't accept responsibility for his actions? Grandma is the one pleading not guilty here and last time I checked, murder is a far worse crime than smoking pot.

I get it. You self ordained preachers of personal responsibility have trouble believing that and older white woman can commit a heinous crime so you all practically stumble over your own feet to blame anyone and everyone but the person that pulled the trigger. The fact that you folks think you have a some kind of monopoly on human morality is just sickening.

Wow!!! I see the arm chair psychologists are out in force today.

granny22 (post 1.45) you are so right. When I first read the article my thought was: why did she have to result to murder? The more I read the more I thought she was protecting her own life. Yes, maybe she went overboard with the number of shots, but which one of us knows how we would react in the same situation. I can't imagine any worse scenario than having to decide to take my grandson's life.

I was afraid to ask my grandparents for ice cream money - but my Uncle had no problems fleecing them (but then he was a Republican).

"I brought you into this world and Imma takin' you OUT!!"

kinda.....

Hey Rev! The term has also been used in criminal psychiatry. But quite frankly Demon Seed fits, although it is a moot point. He's right where he belongs ........DEAD! He will soon be busy roasting in the nether world while his progenitor makes the point with his flame and fork......good riddance.

My, aren't drugs wonderful! What a horrible tragedy. Why for the love of God does anyone even mess with this crap anymore? How stupid are people?

Legalization? OK which ones get legalized? Don't even try tell me it will be OK to legalize METH or others that hooks you from day 1.

Send her to the needle chamber with an extra set of needles, for crying out loud. You bleeding heart conservatives.

drugs are not the problem here. Nutcase granny with a handgun is. The moron who suggested we should secure the border... I won't bother correcting your incredibly naive comment. I will just call you a moron and hope you do a little research in the future before posting. A grandmother pumped the kid full of lead... HOW MANY TIMES? One would have sufficed... 8 is a tad overboard don't you think? Not much evidence required here to put granny away for the rest of her short life. Anyone wonder why the woman's charge included open murder and no bond set? haha, because the kid deserved it? Jesus christ there are some real bozos on this board...

and where's waldo... you are a crazy idi0t.

they should let her go... she s close to die anyway! or we could hire her to target bad boys :(

I feel so sorry for the family. A teenage boy could easily hurt an elderly woman, maybe her actions were in self defense, maybe not. As he's dead, we might never know.

drugs and drug paraphernalia? so basically a 17 year old is smoking pot?

I could be wrong, but I don't think there are too many instances of pot smoking 17 year old adolescents that are "totally out of control in the street," or "derogatory to his grandmothers . . . yelling and shouting, and almost got into it with the police," when they responded in March to a domestic disturbance at the home.

To the dad in Arizona, where I've lived for 5 decades, I'm sorry for the loss of your son. But I can't agree with you on the issue of force. Why? I had a young man break into my house, he wasn't high on pot, but he was high on meth, and he put me in the ICU with only his fists and boots. Stay in Arizona long enough and you will acquire a very large picture of what individuals are capable of with street drugs that are central nervous system stimulants - like when the dad picked up his preadolescent boys for visitation, started driving out of state with them, stopped in the middle of nowhere, on the side of I40, pulled his oldest son out of the front seat of the van, and chopped his head off while the younger child watched - guy was high on crystal meth. The situation isn't exclusive to this state, we are just the number one port for smuggling of illegal drugs into the country.

My sincerest condolences to the family, and my prayers go out to the grandmother - I don't believe she did this in a fit of dementia, or out of rage - I think it will come out she was terrified, and terrorized by her grandson. No elderly person should have to live under those circumstances.

If they want to start placing blame without looking at the facts-they should start with the parents for being so selfish and leaving the youth at grandma's indefinitely. While I agree-8 shots seems a bit excessive- the kid may have been high and out of control.

LET THE FACTS COME OUT BEFORE WE START JUDGING.

@Ronald Hussein

I gave you a vote on your last post and appreciate the explanation. We are actually in agreement that people defending Grandma are cold and callous. He was on the phone pleading for his life, and she keeps on firing. Wtf. This wasn't an intruder, it was her grandson

I'm just amazed that some people here are stupid enough to suggest self defense. Entertaining that thought and saying that the kid was in fact attacking her, self defense would be shooting him to stop the threat. She shot him, which if it was self defense, stopped the threat. She then several minutes later as he's on the phone with 911 shoots him numerous times again. That is NOT self defense, and it's completely ridiculous to even mention that as a defense. The kid may very well have been a punk and treated the grand parents badly, but shooting a dying person, several times, in the chest, as they're pleading for help with 911, sorry there's no looking past that. That's much closer to an execution than it is a justifiable self defense shooting. Plus, they even said she told them she murdered her grandson when the police arrived. If i shot someone in self defense I wouldn't be uttering the phrase "i murdered them." Only thing that will save this lady is if they proof she's suffering from dementia or something.

An old woman doesnt stand a chance against a 17 year old boy or even a girl and who knows what he did after she shot him the first time maybe he came after her. One fall and an old person is pretty much crippled and they don't often get back to where they were before. We don't know all the facts but the parents shipped him off for a reason and even after he was causing trouble they still left him with the grandparents. It doesnt matter how emotionally distruaght he might be if he is abusive to his grandparents; plenty of kids have the same issues and are very good to their grandparents. We don't know what happened but that is what the law is for.

People here defending this Grandma -- why? You shoot ONCE to stop abuse, you shoot 8 times for murder. I used to think Zimmerman defenders were racist. Maybe it is just that people cheer for the older armed person over the unarmed teenager -- who is ASSUMED to deserve it.

The kid was in alternative school so he was no sweatheart. Sounds to me like parents were too busy to deal with him, or just too tired of his nonsense. Whatever, they shouldn't have dumped him on grandma given his drug problem. He might have been smoking pot to self medicate, having a mental illness like bipolar. There are "demon seeds", kids born with brain glitches that they don't recover from. Genetics are a huge factor in mental illness. So there are several scenarios that are possible. I don't condone the shooting in the least. But I can't help wonder just how much crap granny was dealing with and how selfish or in denial the parents were.

He was on the phone with 911 saying he was going to die and she was still shooting him! This wasn't about self-defense at all, she was just crazy. There's no defense for this cold-hearted murderer, just put her out of her misery before she causes anymore for anyone else.

Thank you gone,

I'm not sure how the idiots on this board are trying to sympathize with this old demented psycho. To shoot the kid, have him crying for help to 911 for 3 minutes, and continue to pump lead into him is beyond any excuse.

Burn this crazy granny quick.

You guys realize that you're not even allowed to kill the guy who raped your kid without going to jail, right? If that is illegal, pumping 8 shots into your grandkid because you're pissed at him damn well isn't ok. Also, look at the pictures... you see any bruises, arm in a cast or anything? She was just an old, crazy c@#t

Hoffman had been attending an alternative high school in nearby Farmington and living with his maternal grandparents so he could complete his senior year while his divorced parents settled in Arizona

How many divorcing couples relocate to the same city? And for all of us out here in AZ, Please go back to Michigan you two!!!

I'll also make a Mitt Romney $10k bet that grandma walks with nothing or probation at most.

So the parent's both of them where wrapped up in their new lives and new loves and shipped of their problem kid to the Grandma. What happened is that the dad didn't want anything to do with him and the mother didn't either. But for the grandma to continue to shoot at the kid eight times and say "I was abused" doesn't work in my book. For the simple fact that he's dead and can't tell his story, hell he could have said F you grandma and thats it and she got tired of him cussing her and decided to take matters in her own hands.

Who says he was smoking pot? All it says was drugs and drug paraphernalia were found. That could be anything. I'm more inclined to think the kid was into harder stuff if:

Police had responded in March to a domestic disturbance at Layne's home.

"I spoke to the officer who responded, and he indicated this young man was totally out of control in the street," Ribitwer told reporters Monday. "He was derogatory to his grandmother. He was yelling and shouting and almost got into it with the police."

Pot smokers always seem to be a lot more laid back, in my opinion. Whatever happened in this house got way out of control. Who knows if she complained to her grandson's parents? I would love to hear her side of the story, though. And the kid's, as well, but of course, that'll never happen.

@ rockmebrittany - sorry, smoking pot is against the law. It is the Grandparents house and they are not being "too strict" in saying no to drug use in THEIR house. Smoking pot is the first step in more serious drug use. The child should not have been dumped on the Grandparents. They should have shipped his butt off to Mom and Dad when he started to be a problem. I don't care if it was his Senior year, he needed to be disciplined. (Though I think 8 shots to the chest is excessive and sign of desperation.)

Grandma was pissed when she found his stash and realized it was hers! Obviously, this woman is a long term marijuana addict, who can't control her emotions (kinda like Reefer Madness) and is probably on her way to using the hard stuff (you know, with marijuana being the "gateway" drug that it is to these oldsters). When those addicts start getting wired, they get completely out of control, and you toss a 40 cal in the mix and you get Psycho Granny who thinks she is Annie Oakley. She is headed for the Electric Chair, so you better think twice about swipin Granny's stash next time!

Burn this hag like they did in the Inquisition. Nothing wrong with smoking some dope, I don't even know why they would try and add that element in to the story.

If every rebellious teenager was plugged eight times in the chest by whomever is the parental figure in the broken home, then we would have (conservatively) about 30% of this nations youth taken out over night. It takes a special kind of monster to be able to shoot your kid/grandkid, never mind finishing him off the way that she did.

So far the only comments are those of her lawyer. they are worthless. the kid was a problem? Throw him out. The kid was so bad that they had one problem 2 months earlier? Far from cut and dried.

I read this story to all eight of my grandchildren and told them the moral of the story is don't piss off your grandma or she just might go Rambo on your little a$$e$. All have been decidedly quiet and well behaved since. Nothing like teaching by example. ;-)

The kids parents raised him to the point that he had drug problems and was attending an alternative school. Then once they split, neither one of them wanted him, so they farmed out this disturbed, dangerous person onto an elderly, fragile couple who is too old to handle a normal teenager, let alone one as damaged as he. Then, when calling the police proved that they would neither protect nor serve, she felt threatened enough that she had to go to the extreme and shoot her grand-baby. Her baby's baby. The grandson that she loved more than his parents did. This poor, distraught, damaged child that she loved so much, she thought that she could provide him the love, shelter and protection that his parents couldn't or wouldn't. Even though neither she nor her husband were equipped to handle this problem child. As tragic as this is, what is more tragic is that this scenario is much too common.

robbopaloobop

After years of abuse....Granny fired several warning shots to the chest to get the whippersnapper's attention

"years of abuse'??? what region of your rectum did you pull that conclusion out of?

every single bit of info about this kid and this situation came out of the mouths of HER LAWYERS!!! they want to fix it in the minds of the public that this kid deserved to die, and the majority of you have bought into that mind control hook, line, and sinker... making up facts to support your 'personalized' versions of what went down, adding details and motives as you see fit. it has made me feel physically ill reading these comments

every moron with a computer keyboard is now and all-knowing, all-seeing genius and dispenser of justice from on high. when did everyone in this nation start thinking with the part they sit on instead of their brains?

obviously his fault, as he was yelling at his grandmother in some verbal argument (reportedly according to JUST this article, as they never had a physical confrontation and teenagers never yell unless they are out for blood) she shot him, then several minutes later as he was punching her in the face WHILE talking to 911 she deservedly put 6 more bullets in him. Its obvious isn't it, and she is wolverine because she also healed instantaneously...

I think most people just assume teenagers are out for trouble nowadays. I remember back when I was 17 and some woman who shouldn't have been on the road slammed into my car in a parking lot. She had been going well above 40 mph and her car barely moved out of orientation while mine had been complete changed around 70 degrees. I took pictures before the dumb cop let her move it and the judge threw the whole thing out exclaiming "I can't give tickets after the fact." to the old lady driving without insurance papers. Of course I got the dangerous backing ticket because I was just some "trouble making punk", which the judge just laughed at and threw out.

Unless they come up with serious scars, testimony that he was beating her, and a huge past history this is cut and dry, she lost it and shot the poor kid. So the kid in a completely unrelated even 2 months earlier was yelling at his grandmother. Hell, how do we know she wasn't abusing HIM and he was acting out about it? Maybe that's why he was in the street yelling at her, he could have been trying to let the world know. There's not enough evidence either way but this sure doesn't look as cut and dry as 90% of posters have made it.

And "drug paraphenalia" is such a wide term that could reference incense holders to the right super detective.

So many ill-informed opinons about this boy and his parents. How about another perspective and a little more info from his aunt -- this from an article this afternoon in the Detroit Free Press.

As his family prepares to bury the fun-loving, friendly boy who could build a computer from scratch, they are still in shock, said his aunt, Judy Metzger, 52, of Farmington Hills.

"He was murdered in cold blood. He was executed," she told the Free Press from her home Monday afternoon. "It's senseless."

Metzger, sister of Hoffman's father, said the teen had just been accepted to Eastern Michigan University after convincing his parents to let him stay in Michigan to finish his senior year when they moved to Arizona.

"He said, 'I'll be with Gramma. I'll be fine. Don't worry about me, I'm with Gramma,' " Metzger said.

His mother, Jennifer Hoffman, traveled back to the area monthly to spend time with her son and talked to her mother daily, Metzger said.

Neither Jennifer Hoffman nor Jonathan's father, Michael Hoffman, realized there might be issues, Metzger said.

"Obviously if they did, he wouldn't be in that environment," Metzger said. "We obviously don't know what (prompted) this woman, who purchased the gun 30 days ahead of time — a shoot-to-kill weapon. Obviously, the issue lies with her mental facilities. He was just a kid being a kid. Applying and getting summer jobs. He was just getting ready to go to the movies. Of course, we don't understand."

Jonathan Hoffman was living with his grandparents at Maple Place Villas, a secluded condo community with a security guard and gates. In March, police responded to a call at the condo, which authorities described as an argument between Hoffman and Layne that didn't require further police action.

Despite that, Metzger said Hoffman and his grandmother seemed to get along, which makes the shooting so hard to understand.

"She loved her grandchildren," Metzger said.

@ktlin-2021409 I believe most people claim "not guilty" at this stage in the proceedings. This gives the defense lawyer a chance to look at all the defense options as well as leave it open for a potential plea deal as the case progresses.

Realist; why didn't you just read the Bible to your grand kids - the fear tactics about going to Hell was put in there just for that reason. Maybe teach them to Goose step too?

Sarcasm drainbramage, sarcasm. Or didn't you get the little wink and smile at the end of my post? Sheesh, it's getting pretty bad when you have to explain it.

why didn't granny go for a walk or for a drive to cool off or until things returned to normal. or move out until the kid was placed somewhere appropriate enought to deal with him?

to plug him 8 to the chest is just wrong. she had options to her situation. but instead she pulls out her smith and wesson! and i'm not talking wesson oil, either, folks. that you use to make donuts! and don't spill any in the bath tub. god, 1) what a mess and 2) you can slip and fall real bad. and then they find you dead in the tub all covered in oil and your hair a matted mess. and they are left to wonder what the hell was he/she/they doing?

it didn't need to come to this, i tell you!

from one who has been there!!! but survived it.

A kid does not get kicked out of school, do drugs and get into trouble over night. It means years of poor parenting. Failed as parents so no better way to bail out on responisibilities by dumping it on 74 yr old grandmother then be surprised that he's killed.

Well said and probably entirely correct!

had-enough......you're about as nuts as the old lady. The kid didn't get "dumped" on her. She always had the option to say NO, or is that somethin' that just goes straight over your head? And if she lived in an "upscale" part of Detroit(didn't know there was one), what was a lil frail, can't help herself grandma, doin' with a .40 caliber in the first place? If she was that afraid, her area wasn't very "upscale", and again, when the parents asked if the son could stay there for a while, she ALWAYS had the option to simply say NO. Give it a rest. She MURDERED the kid. Come on....8 shots to the chest??? Get real

Unless her kid used love to manipulate her into a situation she was neither prepared for or able to control.

Screw you Chuck. "...awhile..." is not an entire school year. Crap for parents made it easy for themselves to try and get this little prick through school by using granny. Alternative schools are not for the gifted and talented. Also, I live in a very nice area in Va. and I have a .40 myself. Along with a .9mm, a shotgun and assorted other firearms. You don't have top live in a dangerous area to warrent owning a gun. Sounds to me like she had taken all the abuse she was going to. Agreed, eight shots is a lot of lead, but if you felt as threatened and out-powered as she must have, would you have done any different?

Sorry to disappoint you Chuck, but there are lots of upscale areas around Detroit.

Sounds like elderly exploitation and abuse. Parents dumping their troubled kid with a 74 yr old grandmother who is not equipped to handle this kid. Exploiting the situation where the grandmother can't say no. Have you ever met an elderly that says no? They were raised in a different time period where they would help anyone out and trusted everyone. Scammers prey on them mainly for that.

So Chuck, so you believe that the grandmother should have just stand there and get seriously hurt before doing something about it? Just like if you getting robbed. Just wait til you get beat up before you defend yourself? Riiight.

We don't have all of the facts on this story. However, I have seen a male teenager on meth whip 5 or 6 policemen who are trained to handle that type of situation. But again, not enough facts for us to decide online whether to give granny the needle or not. It is a sad, no win situation.

We do need to think about something here. I am not discounting that the teen had problems, but we need to stop judging this without evidence. First of all, we do not know what drug or drug para was found. Was it meth, marijiana, or a prescription drug (without prescription)? Was the para rolling papers, a pipe, or what? For those saying that alternative school doesn't just happen, you are wrong. Sometimes it does happen with one incident. For example, if he was found with a joint at school, he may have been immediately transferred to an alternative program. Many districts have an offense list that requires immediate transfer to alternative school. Also, if you skip school frequently, you may also be transferred to an alternative school. It all depends on the district.

had enough: yes years of bad parenting, but who was one of the people who raised the bad parent? This woman. She passed on bad chld raising, obviously.

Agreed!

After my brother-in-law attacked my wife's father; beating him over the head with a chain in the kitchen, my mother-in-law called 911. I tried to hold him down but was impossible. I`m 5'11" 200 lbs. and my 17 yr old brother-in-law was around 5'6" tall and all but 145 lbs. My father-in-law is 6'4" and 400 lbs. It took five cops to subdue him. He was enraged but not from drugs, he was mentally unstable and violent at times. Don't think for a moment that a 17 yr old kid can not over power you or you will find yourself in the same situation we were in.

Btw, he thought aliens came and took his eyebrows and replaced them with different ones. He wasn't going to leave the house until they returned with them. That is what he kept screaming while throwing around everyone who got too close to him. Rage can make someone seem like "the hulk" and if you add drugs to the picture; in this case, there is no telling what they are capable of.

"Was it meth, marijiana, or a prescription drug (without prescription)?"

Or was it Scotch or maybe years of having Ritalin or Adderall shoved down his throat.

She is 74 , the weapon is a semi auto. If she was not well versed in using it she could squeeze of a lot of rounds without realizing what was happening. All the rest is conjecture. Let the investigation finish. All the the headlines are for selling a story. We don't know what was wrong with her or the young man. Yes , young man. 17 is not a boy. Just rying to be a voice of reason.

Nice rationalization Barbara, but the police report says the kid had been on the phone with 911 for 3 minutes, pleading for help and worrying that he was going to die. Here's a 5'5" 110 lb kid with a 40 caliber hole in his chest, bleeding out on grandma's floor, and what did she do? She put 7 more bullets in him...more than 3 minutes after she put the first bullet in him.

For one that cautions conjecture, you surely injected much conjecture into you statement. "the weapon is semi auto. If she was not well versed in using it she could squeeze of a lot of rounds without realizing what was happening." This is conjecture, pure and simple, Barbara. But that is ok!! Most of this thread is conjecture and assumption, just don't try and judge. So what this really mean is, we assume. And when we assume we make an ass-u-me. Lol!

had_enough.....again, if she was that afraid, why did she pack a gun a lot of men can't handle?(and then fire multiple rounds in his chest....sounds like she MEANT to kill, not just disable him to be that accurate shot after shot) And again, she always had the option of sayin' NO to lettin' him stay there if she was THAT afraid of her own grandson. Lil "frail" granny murdered the kid, plain and simple. It doesn't take that many rounds from a gun that big to disable someone and call the cops to take of the rest of the situation.

People need to stop relying on media for facts and hollywood for evidence.

Have any of you posters shot someone?

How do you know what a gunshot wound would look like in person?

I could imagine a scenario where it seems the kid wasn't shot ie a miss since most bullet holes from the point of view of the shooter might become hidden in folds of clothes with liitle or no blood visible. Quit using your hollywood viewer of gunshot wounds to ring out a verdict of guilty. 'In the moment' grandma saw that her efforts were ineffective, it wasn't like she had time to ask who are you talking to, she just saw the youth continuing on as if he hadn't been shot, ie talking on the phone to someone.

Is she guilty? That is for the courts to decide after a deliberation of the evidence.

Was there any undocumented history to abuse? Not sure, and that is why we have courts.But I am going out on a limb and say probably as most abuse goes unreported, Id even go further out on that limb to say that the abuse that was reported was done by a third party and not the family members

What if she shot and seen that the round was inefeective from her point of view, well you continue. So the number of shots has little to do with anyhting other than to plaster across a news article, along with grandma and grandson.

The question is did she fire in self defense?

If yes, then free her, if no then condemn her.

No matter how many times she fired

I think she acted more out of dementia or something. I stress again, what was a "frail" lil ol' lady doin' with a .40 caliber, and why didn't SHE call 911? Sure, the kid probably had some issues. Didn't most of us at that age? I sure as hell did, but nobody in my family tried to kill me. The ol' lady is just a nutjob, plain and simple. Actually, I'm surprised the kid survived the first shot to the chest and had the ability to call 911 himself. She coulda just walked next door or something, but 8 shots is goin' from the sublime to the ridiculous

That frail old lady can obviousely handle a .40 caliber pistol Chuck. Her generation knows that you should finish what you start and never quit, no matter how many shots it takes........

Perhaps I misread the article, but I think it said there were 8 entry and exit wounds with 2 bullets remaining in the body. Does that mean she shot him 10 times with 2 going through other entry wounds?

Chuck, stop acting like you know what happened. Years ago, when I was about 20 I had this boyfriend, who hit me, ripped the phone out of the wall, and wouldn't let me leave for fear of being hit more. He might have been holding her captive, and decided to call 911 after she started defending herself. Also, if you have nice things, your the prime target of the scum who want to rob you, hence the gun.

Chuck, you're being an armchair quarterback. If a 350 lb 22y/o crazy kid on crack came at you, would you shoot him once and calmly walk next door. She made a life fearing decision to stop him from ever trying to hurt her. Your issues you had growing up. Were you kicked out of school and have a history of violence and heavy drugs. Most pot smokers aren't violent. Crack and meth...oh yeah. Meth make people paranoid enough to carry a gun for imaginary enemies. They are a lit fuse. Yes, the shots were excessive, but she made the fear of him go away. It's not like she reloaded to make sure of the job.

So what do you propose? The frail 74 yr old grandmother to have a pepper spray or even a bat? Good luck with that. A 17 yr old drug abuser with a history of violence and getting kicked out of school...... lets see if that will protect the 74 yr old from rage.

This story has many similarities to The Treyvon story (don't over analyze this statement folks). Although it does have a major difference, it is amazing how taking the race card away tips the scales.

I only know that if my grandma pulled a gun on me....I would be running .....the other way.........as fast as I could. My grandma never takes out a gun, unless she means to use it. Hopefully I never give her a reason to.

So if you shoot your grandson, and he's on the phone with 9/11 saying:

"I've been shot in the chest, I'm going to die,"

You calmly walk over and execute him with a few more shots to the chest while he's already dying . . . because you're afraid. Sure.

We don't know hwat happned in the house or what was in the heads of this old lady and her grandson. I agree thart 8 to 10 shots seems excessive (did she re-load?) --but if she was afriad for her own life -- How do you explain it -- UPDATE: I just heard from another snews ource that this boy was not really that big and scary and his school mates are holding a candle-lit viril -- Don't know what is true or not here -- There has to be more to all this.

There is a lot more info out there than just this one MSNBC article. This kid was very intelligent, well-liked by his friends and teachers and described by one as a "cool computer geek." He had no history of violence, but did have a history of arguing loudly with his grandmother. He also was on probation after getting arrested for marijuana possession last year. A police statement said it was not long after that arrest that grandma bought the Glock .40.

He was not dumped on his grandma by uncaring parents. The parents are divorced, but moved to Arizona together, along with their son & daughter. Shortly after the move, the 15 year old daughter got sick and was diagnosed with a brain tumor. The "doting" grandmother (that's how the boy's father described her) offered to let him move back to Michigan, live with her and finish his senior year at the high school he had been attending, with his friends and in familiar surroundings.

Police statements also say he called 911 and reported that his grandma shot him in the chest, that he pleaded for help and was afraid that he was going to die. He was on the phone with 911 for over 3 minutes when a gunshot was heard and he screamed "she shot me again!". Police also state that as they arrived at the condo, they heard more gunshots coming from inside. Grandma answered the door still holding the Glock in her right hand. When the police asked her to put down the gun she did, and then told them "I just murdered my grandson."

Clearly grandma wasn't all there mentally. If she was, then she must be pure evil, to execute her 5'5" 110 pound grandson while he was bleeding out and desperately waiting for paramedics to arrive.

So if you shoot your grandson, and he's on the phone with 9/11 saying:

"I've been shot in the chest, I'm going to die,"

You calmly walk over and execute him with a few more shots to the chest while he's already dying . . . because you're afraid. Sure.

:)

That's the right on man, you said it all.

Here as in many other similar stories, people are coming to conclusions before they have all the facts, doing so from the comfort of a chair in front of a computer where they have no idea the context or intensity of the emotions that were involved in the event and, assuming a certain kind of reaction from someone intimately involved in the event when they haven't got a clue as to how people react when placed in that situation. It is sheer idiocy borne of the highest arrogance.

Perhaps a higher form of arrogance is denial of facts that have already been presented in court, like the 911 call he made after the first shot to the chest, and the fact that he was on the phone with 911 for 3 full minutes begging for help and expressing his fear that he was dying when the 911 operator heard a gunshot and the kid screamed "she shot me again!".

Then again, maybe the 911 operator lied to the court, and maybe the police report is a lie too.

But you're right, we don't know what prompted grandma to go get her gun -- which she had only purchased about a month ago according to police -- and we don't know her state of mind at the time this happened, or what the kid said to provoke her. Another news story said he was getting ready to go out to the movies with his friends -- it was early evening last Friday night. Maybe there was an argument about his going out, or maybe something else. Some things aren't known and may never be known.

But not everything is speculation. Some of it is now evidence presented in court.

It is odd that the grandma's emotions are thrown into the mix. She shot the unarmed boy. He had no documented history of doing any drug harder than mushrooms and marijuana. At the time he was shot, he was clearheaded enough to call 911 and describe the situation.

He was on the phone for 3 minutes when he was shot again. Sure, he was really out of his mind on crack or pcp or some other hard drug that sounds scary to people ignorant of the effects of psychoactive drugs. That is what tweakers do, they get shot and call 911 and calmly bleed out trusting the police to arrive in time while their granny unloads a few more into their chest.

To those who asked how one poster knew it was an autoloader, it is because the news articles said it was a Glock, and a 40 caliber, which would likely make it one, since glock does not make revolvers.

Most tweakers also seldom get Scholarships to college and straight As. Just an observation.

Yep cause reasonable people who just unlimbered a 40 asks, "who you talkin to on the phone?"

911?! here then, And then adds more rounds to the mix as the first were ineffective, he was still walking and talking. Quite unreasonable, so what pushed grandma over the top? You just don't go around cappin the grandkids, counterproductive in the least.

But we don't need reason we have hollywood and a misconception of gun violence portrayed across the media.

And yes guns are violent, but I will defend every americans right to own one.

Hey Wolf, were your parents brother and sister?

Situation changes alot when she was 30 or 4o.... and being 74 yrs old now. First, you can handle a simple shove. At 74, a simple shove can result in a hip fracture. Majority die within a year after getting a hip fracture for the elderly.

He wasn't shoving her when he was on the phone to 911 and she kept shooting him.

maybe she was trying to put him out of his misery after the first shot....

The statement alone says alot about these selfish parents eh?

Just having a testerone filled 17 yr old trouble maker living with a 74 yr old grandmother is asking for trouble. Kids that age cannot control their emotions and do actions without thinking. A simple push or shove to a 74 yr old grandmother out of anger can be a death sentence. People that age have poor balance, frail bones and practically fragile. Simple fall can cause hip fractures. Its usually a death sentence because people at that age never recovers.

Yes, so frail she could aim that gun at his chest and shoot him 8 time while he was on the phone to 911.

Kim: So, you were a witness to all of this and know what happened? I hope you gave the police a written statement.

had-enough-blah-blah-blah, "Kids that age cannot control their emotions and do actions without thinking."

And 74 year old grandmother shooting him to death while he is on the phone to police is in control of her emotions? No, not at all.

This kid should have been taken care of by his crackpot, "divorced" parents, not the granparents. Then the father has the GAUL, to say he shouldn't have been shot. Well, WHERE WAS HE! In Arizona where his butt moved to along with his loser ex-wife.

Because he is 17 yrs old. Besides....... do you want a 17 yr old kid who keeps getting kicked out of school, uses drugs and has trouble with the law have a gun in his hand? I perfer it on a 74 yr old grandmother than a 17 yr old punk.

I perfer it on a 74 yr old grandmother than a 17 yr old punk.

Or a self-appointed neighborhood watch commander.

In both scenarios what's the worst that could happen??

WilliamOfRites

Or a self-appointed neighborhood watch commander.

With a handgun and anxiety/mood disorders.

lol

If they would have said what kind of drugs they found, it would answer a lot of questions. If it was PCP or Meth I can see him still being able to call 911 after being shot in the chest several times.

Why didn't he have a gun to defend himself?

Are you assuming that it wasn't his gun?

Based upon the news articles that say she bought it, it probably was not his gun.

She should have purchased a family counseling session instead of a 40 cal Glock.

Are you nutz?

Did you read the article? I'm assuming you didn't because absolutely nothing in the article indicated that the grandmother was selling drugs. Try reading it once in a while so you don't look like a idiot when you post your opinions. FYI, so you don't have to read it....... Parents dumped a troubled drug using 17 yr old trouble maker with their 74 yr old grandmother and split to another state. Grandmother shot and killed the kid.

I'm thinking that ryan-339 is being sarcastic and perhaps making a point that most of the comments on here about the kid "deserving it" make as much sense as saying the grandmother should be executed. It's a typical poorly written MSNBC article that has only enough info to make you shake your head, not enough to judge what was really going on.

ryan: Aren't you suppose to be in school? Get to class and leave the adult boards.

LMAO!

HA! Let this be a lesson kids. If you don't eat everything grandma makes...she may just loose it.

More to the point, Respect your Elders. Think you are too old for a spanking?!

You have got to be kidding me! The fact that that woman shot her grandson not once but eight times at point blank range and then had the balls to calmly tell the police she murdered her grandson like it was no big deal. WOW! I don't care how out of control that kid was there is no excuse for her actions. I mean the woman is not even sorry. If I am on the jury I recommend that she get first degree murder and nothing less. All my sympathy is for her grandson who died so tradgically. He deserved so much more. He deserved love and understanding and support. He was the real victim here. His parents were getting divorced which is allways hardest on the kids anyway and then his grandmother shoots him eight times. The reason I feel she should get first degree murder is because had she stopped after shooting him once and then called for an ambulance I would have way more sympathy for her as it is she didn't stop at once she continued to shoot bullets in him seven more times. The young man was on the phone calling 911 for help which shows me that he was no longer a threat to her so why didn't she stop shooting at that point?

Ever think the kid may have said," When this is over granny, I'm going to kill you."? There are several things we don't know. Love and compassion are always great but they don't always work. My wife's family showed love and compassion; moreso than most would, to their son and he almost destroyed the family.

The grandmother may not have known he was on the phone. She may have thought he went to get a weapon to attack her. There are just too many things open to speculation. Until we know the facts, its hard to say what happened really.

Love the phrase you used "Until we know the facts, its hard to say what happened really." And this was after most of your statement contained "speculations."

I was making those speculations to show how different fators can change the outcome. So it is best to await the actual facts. I was not making those implications as being fact or my opinion as to what happened.

Your comment is odd at best as a reply to my statement. I am at a loss to see what point you are attempting to make by it.

The grandmother may not have known he was on the phone. She may have thought he went to get a weapon to attack her.

So I guess she shot him through the wall out of her line of sight, based upon the sound of his voice three minutes after she initially shot him?

So when the police arrived, and reported hearing additional shots, that was the neighbor shooting?

It is Detroit, so matbe that one is plausible.

Good point. How many of these posters are commenting from a hindu ashram in Pleasant Valley, Ca.? I grew up in Chicago where gunplay is everyday part of life - as Alphonso Capone said; "you get a lot further in this world with a kind word & a gun than you will with a kind word". In the 'Home of the Brave', too many people - including our cheerless fearleaders take counsel in their fears & if they have a weapon handy, that's the first thing they'll reach for (whether they know how to use it or not). So, lets blame the gov't., Youtube, AARP, the TV, Rock & Roll,...Abstract concepts like 'personal responsibility' 'Ten Commandments' are easily dismissed with a simple "yeah, but...", "except for...", "I didn't know my meds & beer would affect me like that". This life is just too insane - I'll just focus on my typing exercises (& my aim).

Why would the parents dump a drug troubled kid onto the lap of this poor old lady.. What were they thinking?? They have the ultimate responsibility as to what happened... and I bet the truth will bare this out!!

What if the kid didn't want to go to Arizona with his parents. If he said no, the only way they could have made him comply would be through physical force and restraint. What do you think happens then, Mom, Dad abusers. So Granny offers to house him until he graduates, bad decision. Some of the kids today do not think that the rules of a common society apply to them and that they have the right to do as they darn well please. Shouldn't have to wait until they commit a felony, one call to the police for a non-compliant punk and off to juvi they go. And stay there until they learn that civility and the laws of the land apply to them as well. Comply or go to jail.

WTG grandma!

The NRA has checked in.

Actually I'm not in the NRA. They are a bit too extreme for my taste. But I will stand by my extreme comment since some of these dirt-bag kids we have around now a days may as well be put down. No one teaches them a thing about respect or honor. This kids in alternative school, playing with drugs, running the streets, being mean to his grandma (seriously...who is mean to their GRANDMA?). Sounds like a future burden to the prisons to me.

Scary.

Uh, forest...you don't shoot your grandchildren because they are mean to you.

forest_specter......it's only 8:32am here, and you've already given me my daily glimpse into the idiocy of humanity. You give me great hope for the human species......NOT!!!! Now take your gun and go kill a cat or somethin' and feel like you saved the world. LOTS of kids are in alternative schools, and lots of kids do drugs...his choice was most likely weed, but he was at least tryin' to go and finish school and graduate. Of course, you give him no kudos for that, you just spout your simple minded, throw 'em all in the same pile, of kids that age. And sure, the story says he was abusive to his grandma on one occasion, but who's to say SHE didn't start it? Afterall, SHE'S was the one packin' a gun, right???

Chuck. I'm so glad you are easily riled up. You just made my day. Thanks!

Uh, forest...you don't shoot your grandchildren because they are mean to you.

No your right. But I would like to think the way a grandson treats his grandma would say a lot about him. Saying derogatory things to her just goes to show he was a dirt-bag, flunkie and pothead (at least this is what chuck told me since he's an expert on youth drug habits).

Well, forest, he's dead by his grandmother's hand, maybe what he said to her was true.

You're assuming an awful lot...derogatory, dirt-bag, flunkie, pothead.

Frankly, I'd take the derogatory, dirt-bag, flunkie, pothead over the murderer any day.

Chuck-295246

LOTS of kids are in alternative schools, and lots of kids do drugs...his choice was most likely weed, but he was at least tryin' to go and finish school and graduate.

Nice way to deflect blame away from the kid. It's never his fault and he is just a victim of society. Never take responisiblity for himself. Yup.

I'm only in my late 20s but last time I checked..... a kid that does drugs and gets kicked out of school is not trying to go and finish school and graduate. I'm from planet earth. What planet are you from and what have you been smoking?

And Kim.... I rather take a 74 yr old grandmother with a handgun that protects herself than a pot smoking, flunkie, dirtbag. And I bet a majority of the population would too.

Well, forest, he's dead by his grandmother's hand, maybe what he said to her was true.

You're assuming an awful lot...derogatory, dirt-bag, flunkie, pothead.

Frankly, I'd take the derogatory, dirt-bag, flunkie, pothead over the murderer any day.

Yep...he's dead alright. I don't need to assume. Seen too many of these type of kids.

Nice way to deflect blame away from the kid. It's never his fault and he is just a victim of society. Never take responisiblity for himself. Yup.

I'm only in my late 20s but last time I checked..... a kid that does drugs and gets kicked out of school is not trying to go and finish school and graduate. I'm from planet earth. What planet are you from and what have you been smoking?

Hit the nail square on the head there.

Forest, either you are very confused or you don't know how to read very well.

had enough, murdering a child on the phone to 911, calling for help, is not protecting yourself...it's murder, plain and simple.

I can see clearly you two prefer the murderer.

I read just fine, thank you. I respect your opinion to disagree with me on how I view the youth and how this story and past experience have shaped my perspective.

However, this does sound like murder. Yet, if the case is true that this boy was an abusive, druggy, flunkie, thug wanna be...I stand in the granny's corner. My feelings are similar to cases you hear about when a woman being abused by her husband snaps and shoots one night. Perhaps new evidence will come forward to change my mind. But I doubt it. I just hope granny accepts the consequences for her actions.

Self-defense? Then why is it the first thing she said to police was that she had just murdered her grandson? Kids at the alternative school this kid attended are holding a candelight vigil and the school has brought in grief counselors. This was a 110 pound 17 year old kid who was beloved by his friends, teachers and other family members.

BTW, for those bashing his parents for "dumping him on grandma", the parents are in Scottsdale, AZ where their 15 year old daughter is being treated for a brain tumor. Grandma agreed to let the son live with her so he could finish his senior year at the school in Michigan rather than at a new school in Arizona.

Regarding self-defense or homicide, that's for a jury to decide. But I don't think grandma's case is looking too good.

From another article:

“The subject stated that his gramma had just shot him in the chest and that he was going to die and he pleaded for help,” Detective Brad Boulet testified in 48th District Court in Bloomfield Township. “At approximately the three-minute mark of the 911 call, the subject screamed and exclaimed he had just been shot again.”

Police arriving on the scene heard several gunshots, Boulet said. They then ordered Layne, who came to the front door with a gun in her right hand, to come out of the house.

“While walking toward the officers Ms. Layne exclaimed that she had just murdered her grandson,” Boulet said. Upstairs, they found the teen unresponsive, and he was pronounced dead at Botsford Hospital. The Oakland County Medical Examiner’s Office found that Hoffman had eight entry or exit gunshot wounds and two bullets still in his body, Boulet testified."

Thanks for the additional info.

Yes, thanks -- , this does clarify the situation a bit. There is still too uch unanswered questions -- Interesting to see how it all turns out.

Sounds like the grandfather and step-daughter are the ones with the problems here. You don't discipline a 12 yr. old by throwing the child to the floor and choking them. What kind of mother allows that?

Sounds like the grandfather and step-daughter are the ones with the problems here. You don't discipline a 12 yr. old by throwing the child to the floor and choking them. What kind of mother allows that?

Yes...I'm sure sitting down and gently talking with the thug life wanna be would have really have changed his was. Perhaps they could diagnose him with EBD and give his some medicine so he changes...HA. Give the kid an butt kicking and send him to boarding school.

He'd be better off in boarding school than with a drug-addict mother and violent step-grandfather. Then he'd only have to deal with abandonment issues.

Sounds like this 12 year old is beyond help, to late to discipline. He needs to be put to be humanly put to sleep.

How about the adults act like adults? Get the 12yr old therapy, but that would mean that all their dirty laundry would be shown. It appears to me from what you've described that the other kids need to be taken out of the home as well. My second oldest just turned 13 and she is still very much a little girl. It sounds to me like this 12yr needs positive attention and love; which he is clearly not getting from his mother or grandfather.

Mom2Five...

I agree, this whole family sounds like they have some serious problems. This poor kid didn't have a chance with this whole situation. God be with him, may he rest in peace.

It makes you question why people fight against abortions

Right to Life.......sometimes "life" isn't supposed to live.

Yup. Pay more $$ for therapy that 12 yr olds will not sit and listen to. A big slap across the face is free. Just saying......

@ had-enough: Lady, listen to yourself for a moment here. If you came from a broken up home with a terrible mother, no father, and any time you were out of line you were disciplined by someone nearly strangling you--at the age of twelve, mind--you'd think you were given keys to a porsche if someone listened to you pro bono for thirty minutes. (And trust me, there are church run and government run counseling programs they could enroll this kid in for peanuts.) I know it's easier to play Jack Ketch to a child--a child--for some reason, but, well, that's why we have high rates of child abuse, isn't it?

One big difference. Granny wasn't stalking this kid. It happened inside her house.

No...this was a white on white crime. The black community has no horse in this race.

@ forest:

"The black community has no horse in this race."

But you seem to.

Not really. Innocent until proven guilty...but I think she said it best herself: "I just murdered my grandson!"

Will ,of Rites Trayvon? that dog won't hunt on this thread.

I read this thread specifically looking for someone to call this white kid a "thug." Still looking...

I did...go up a few threads.

The simulant between this case and the Martin case is that another unarmed teen was gunned down. It has nothing to do with the race of the victims.

Stop being so smug. I understood the entire comment.

Greeeaaaat........ spelling and grammar police is out and about early today with their flashlight wands eh?

Spelling and grammar check, dragging the name Trayvon into a completely un-related story (#19), ... It really does get old.

"I see kids in stores screaming , rolling on the floor . and so on and the parrents do nothing because some so called "Expert" says do not SPANK your Kid."

so the parents should just shoot the unruly kids? shakespeare... just shut the fu ck up you idi0t.

I agree. I am by no means taking up for the Grandmother's actions for killing him; however, we ALL have not walked in her shoes! No telling what this "spoiled brat" teenager has been doing, saying to her, etc. PERIOD! Maybe HE threatened to kill her! Granted--I wouldn't have killed him, but I would have put a couple of bullets in his leg to make him think about his threats IF HE DID. The teenager sounds like a out-of-control problem, like alot of teens, and she had HAD ENOUGH!!!! I, personally, would have sent the little BRAT pack'en and warned him he come back with any threats, I would put a load of BUCKSHOT UP HIS LITTLE *ASS!! (Sorry, but I don't go for these disrespectul teenagers anymore. My daughters knew their boundaries with me, or I would put my foot up their butt--they will tell you too! It's a good thing I don't have a disrespectul BOY!)

My mom had a .22 Rifle--AND SHE KNEW HOW TO USE IT!!!!! Our ancestors come from Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisiana, and Missouri.

I'm siding with the GRANDMOTHER!!!!!!

euro trash bred, sure sounds like you're "taking up" for the grandmother's actions. How many times do you think is necessary to shoot an unarmed teenager for derogatory language? 1? 2? 8? why don't you just take a chill pill and turn on judge judy.

i think you need to re-read the article...it did NOT say she shot him for derogatory language....those words were referred to the PRIOR domestic call out to the house and he was ready/willing to confront the answering officers...no one has a clue about the trigger this time (oh....let me guess and beat you all to the punchline...."yes we do...it was grammas finger")...you have no clue!

Overkill constitutes rage, and is not a good defense.

Bad vision comes with the terroritory of old age. Have to make sure the shots were going in. 1-3 shots might be required for a young person with great vision....... not so with a 74 yr old.

So what's your point...that she intended to kill him...not just stop him?

Hmmmm....

Caliber does not matter in this case....if the grandmother was if fear, she fired until the threat in her mind was down. You do not fire and forget, you put the threat down, only then do you quit shooting.

had_enough.....even with bad vision and a .40 caliber, most SANE people would come to the conclusion, that once the kid stopped moving and/or makin' a sound, he was pretty freakin' dead.....like your brain cells seem to be. You must be related to the grandma somehow, because your post seem to defend her. Are you even familiar with a .40 caliber and the damage it can do, or how easy it is to pick up a phone and call 911? She didn't need to kill the kid. After the first shot, she should have calmed the fu$# down, and called 911, but nope....she just kept shooting. Time for you to stop defending a murderer, and go get your own help. It's just a phone call away

Excuse me rader1,

This was her grandson, not some intruder in her home. He wasn't attacking her when he was calling 911. She actively went after this child.

Yes Kim, she intended to kill him. I completely understand the posts about how we are assumimg things. How though, do you side with a 17 year old male against a 74 year old skinny old lady?

And let us wait on the tox screen. If this kid was using more that pot, one shot from a .40 to the chest may have only stung the kid. Using drugs like crack or meth make a defender use more shots. A meth user here, took 14 shots from state troopers and local police before he went down. 11 to the chest, one to the upper right arm and one to the upper right leg.....and still survived.

You do understand he was no threat to her while he was on the phone to 911???

What justifies her shooting him while he is trying to get help????

Very sad.

Kim: You have NO IDEA what happened there do you? All you heard was a phone call. You have NO IDEA about the family history or dynamics, do you? There was more to this than an innocent little boy getting shot by his Grammy - I wasn't there, but THAT part I do know, just from old-fashioned common sense.

Yes I'm familiar with 40 caliber rounds and what kind of damage it does on the body. And btw, anyone that has knowledge of handguns and caliber rounds know that the type of caliber rounds has little to do with how quickly it will stop a person. It's all about shot placement. I can shoot a one 22lr round to the head and that can kill as fast as if I use a 40 caliber or even a 45. And if you use hollowpoint rounds then 9mm, 40 and 45 usually end up with the same holes. Difference between them is minute except 45 is slightly bigger but not much. And it sure sounds like that the rounds she may have used were full metal jacket rounds and not hollowpoints. FMJ tends to exit out while hollowpoints stay inside and create the greater damage.

The article never stated what type of drugs the kid was on or used. You can't assume it was just weed. Like the post above me, people can be on crack and meth and it takes more than one shot to bring them down. Even after 10 rounds in them, they still kicking like it was just mosquito bites.

After the 1st round went off, the grandmother is not thinking rationally at that point and is already in disable or eliminate the threat mode. The question you might want to ask is why the grandmother got to the point where it drove her to shoot the first round. And I bet my left nutt that the kid was not sitting in his room quietly while doing his algebra homework.

So yeah...... even after 4-5 rounds in the kid and he was still able to run to his room and call the police? It makes me curious what drugs in his system?

OMG, This is sad... either this lady has been watching too much lifetime drama series or she was so bound up with fear that it took total control of her feelings and emotions! Wow, 8 shots... really grandma?

Drugs mixed with a teenager.....You don't even have to say anymore.... And this kids parents shouldn't have squat to say about it. You left your son with your elderly parents to relocate to another state....Don't even try to tell me the parents didn't know this boy was no angel. This grandmother was scared of this boy...it takes alot to shoot your own family...

There are only two people guilty here. The parents. Take note parents..your moms and dads are not there to raise your goddam kids...Get your act together for gods sake..what happened to "for better or for worse until death us do part' well the only one that has paid here is the kid you brought into this world and now your mother is going to have to live with this for the rest of her short life. Shame on you!!!!

It is not always the parents fault. Explain to me how 2 kids can be raised in the same conditions, under the same roof where one is a straight A student and the other is a drug addict and gang banger? Some are just a piece of crap and others become good people. Not always in upbringing.

Not trying to deflect from the parents responsibility in this matter, just that you can't solely blame how the kids are raised as the only factor.

My Dad left me with my grandparents for an entire year when he divorced my mother and moved to another state. I'm white/native american and I went to an all black school in western NC. I got into fights everyday. There was drug use in and out of the school by many of the students. I never used "peer pressure" or my unpbringing to bring strife towards my family. I did the best I could with what I had as did my family.

The kid chose to act as he did and THAT is not the parent's fault. My little brother; raised with me, joined a gang, was a heavy drug user and went to prison for armed robbery and assault with a deadly weapon with intent to kill once he turned 16. Care to explain how it was my parent's fault he chose the path he did when we were both raised under the same circumstances?

My brother chose his path as did this teen in acting the way they do. No ones fault but their own so quit using the "parent's fault" mentality as the reason when there are HUGE factors outside of that to show one's actions.

Guns don't kill people...What was granny doing with a 40 cal handgun? When dementia sets in all rational thinking goes out the window. One shot to the knee would have been sufficient if she did feel threatened. If she had problems with the boy then she or her husband should have contacted the proper authorities. I the boy was doing drugs he should have been sent to rehab; that's tough love not bullets!

I cant help but chuckle (lightly) at your statement, Kim...where is your schooling from that qualifies your belief that he was no threat just because he was on the phone to 911? As I remember the BRIEF ARTICLE saying, it was a PHONE call, not a SKYPE call, to where the operators/police/you or I can watch what REALLY was happening. NO ONE knows what goes on in the mind of someone on AN UNDISCLOSED drug. You and others assume WAY too much and blame the 'senile grandmother', when you are as cluless as EVERYONE ELSE! 8 bullets MAY have been excessive for you or I, but, again...NO ONE WAS THERE! One well placed bullit that YOU or I may be able to place, may NOT have been possible for her...it may NOT have been her gun...it MIGHT have been HIS!!!!! PERHAPS he had used it on more than one occasion to threaten her, or her husband that no one knows anything about...perhaps he is MORE frail than she. Am I on her side? Just like the jury, I have to hear all...ALL... the facts, filtering out all the speculations and assumptions. Even then...this is sad for all!!

She was just plain scared and obviously never shot a gun before! I am sorry for the family, this will not be an easy time for them.

had_enough......you like many others failed to read, that never in the news story mention that the kid had in anyway threatened the innocent lil frail old lady in this inncident, so WHY was she so quick to have a loaded gun, cocked and to the ready??, and, not me, but the COPS, say she murdered him. Wake up and read!!!!!

I couldn't have said it better myself. If the parents couldn't handle this child, what made them think a 74yr. old woman could handle him. I feel bad for the lad. But, the elderly are used and abused far too much.

She could have shot the unarmed boy once and run away to defend herself (if that's what she was doing), not shoot him repeatedly until he was DEAD. I can't believe the number of people leaving comments who defend her actions and who just KNOW that the boy deserved it.

My thoughts exactly Nikolaus. We don't know the whole story, but I doubt the boy deserved 8 bullets in his chest while he was pleading for his life to 911. And on a lighter note everyone saying the "frail 74 year old" how do you know she's frail? I just got back from a vacation where a 70 y/o man kicked my butt hiking through the Andes and the last marathon I did the person who finished right before me was in her 70's. Age does not automatically equate to frailty.

Chuck, you're the brain dead one here. Have you actually ever fired a gun, and I don't mean cooly and calmly on a firing range? I applaud the grouping of her shots. Why do people who have obviously never fired a gun always think you can magically stop the juice and think rationally when you're in mortal fear and firing off rounds to neutralize the threat to your safety?

Good point. There is SO much we don't know (not that it's really any of our business), but the whole situation just sounds really sad and messy all around.

Selfishness? The divorced parents moved to Arizona with their kids, including Jonathan. Just a few days after the move, their 15 year old daughter became ill and was diagnosed with a brain tumor. Jonathan was getting ready to start his senior year and after some family discussion, his "doting" grandma offered to let him come back to Michigan and stay with her so he could finish high school there. So Jonathan moved back to Michigan.

Last March, Jonathan was arrested for possession of marijuana and paraphernalia. It was shortly after that incident that grandma bought a .40 Glock and some ammunition. Who knows her state of mind, but perhaps she was paranoid that her intelligent computer-geek grandson was "all hopped up on pot" and might pose a threat.

A very tragic story all the way around. But self defense? He was already shot in the chest when he called 911, saying he was going to die and pleading for help. Three minutes into the call, he screams as she shoots him again. How threatening do you suppose a 5'5" 110 pound kid is when he's got a 40 caliber bullet hole in his chest? No wonder grandma told police she had just murdered her grandson. She knows what she did.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120522/METRO02/205220389/1409/METRO/Family-friends-gather-teen-allegedly-killed-by-grandmother

Wow that adds a lot to what happened. She flat murdered him. Who doesn't have or know a troubled teen these days? If they are all to be killed, the US would be a lot smaller in terms of population, both male and female. Your first thought is usually the right one. She told the police she killed him. Was was he shot so many times? 1st degree if you ask me.

The parents should have known better to leave their problem child with an older grandparent! I beleive that the women snapped because with the way kids have no respect for anyone including themselves today the grandmother was probably over the edge. The system does not work either because you can not get a problem child out of the house even if the problems are out of control, that is in NY state. I do not know if it is the same where they are from. The social services, counselors and doctors want to keep the family together!! I have seen so many teenagers hit, push swear and show violence toward their parents and grandparents. I really before everyone blames the Grandmother get all the facts. Drugs are a way of life today youngand old and the parents should be held accountable for leaving a drug addict son with their Mother.

If any of you had listened to the video, he had already killed his daddy and attacked the mother. So I am sure that he was doing lots to his grandmother. There are so many troubled teens today. We have to wake up and undertand that teens aren't like us when we were that age. We did get in trouble but not near as much and well, I am on who taught my children to love old people. There aren't many left.

She was a teacher; was a 40 cal the way she handled her trouble making students? A 74 year old is not that frail, If she was 94 then that's different but then a 94 year old should be looking after anyone else as she would in fact need to be looked after. A gun in the hand of a old person who's not thinking clearly is just as bad as an elderly individual behind the wheel of a car when they don't fully observe the traffic around them and cause an accident. I almost got run over by an elderly person in Florida who drove like there was no one else on the rode. I was crossing a intersection on my bicycle and here comes the elderly driver ignoring the red light and if I didn't take immediate action to veer out of the way; I would have been hit! The right to bear arms makes America strong but a gun or a car in the hands of someone who isn't thinking clearly endangers all our lives. There should be a physiological test for both gun owners and drivers to ensure every ones safety.

sounds like she took some of his mushrooms. she'll burn for this.

They only thing she should be guilty off is not pumping more bullets into this POS. I would have pumpted 10 bullets into this scumbag. His parents should be the ones being held for murder. What kind of scum parents leave a drug addicted teenager (the fact that he is in an alternative high school says it all), with an old woman who is fragile and afraid? If they are getting a divorce, too bad @!$%# happens. You need to keep your spawn with you not dump him off somewhere else.