Eric and Lyle Menendez.

I dont remember the names but remember the case, and that was just for an asston of cash if I remember correctly.

Obviously the girl's mother was right about her daughter's friends.

Not much of a story here, it says:

Three separate attempts were made on the woman's life, but she did not seek medical attention

But, it doesn't say how they attempted to kill her, did they try beating her to death, stabbing her, shooting her and missed? If they shot at her and missed three times, they clearly have really bad aim, and there would be no need for medical attention. But really, a few more actual details would be helpful...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyle_and_Erik_Menendez

was the case.

Pro:

MSNBC is always short on the facts! They don't think the public can handle the TRUTH!

Sounds more like the Rod Ferrell case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Ferrell

Makes you wonder what happened to the grandmother who shot the teenage grandson recently. What did that teenager do to her?

I don't know, but this makes me think I'd better kill my 10 year old nephew before he gets big enough to take me.

KIDDING!!

I'd be critical of her friends too if they tried to kill me 3 times... I mean, how hard is it to kill 1 unsuspecting person???

Where are all the Christians screaming about Islam being a religion of hate? Oh wait, these weren't Muslim's. Where are all the American's screaming about the crime wave from illegal immigrants? Oh wait, these weren't illegal aliens. Ummm... The gays are ruining the 'traditional family values'. Oh, that doesn't apply here either.

Oh well, I guess we just have to admit that white, Anglo-Saxon, Christian, hetero-sexual people are also destroying family values in America.

I didn't see where the article mentions the race, religion, sexual orientation or immigration status of anyone involved. Just for your info, Hesperia, in San Bernardino county has a huge Hispanic population and these people could very well be illegals-not that it is relevant to the story.

Really??? If they were Hispanic and/or Illegal it would have been part of the headline. Seeing how the article did not mention race, religion, sexual preference or immigration status means they WERE NOT Muslim, Hispanic/Illegal, or Homosexual.

they probably aren't illegals, they probably aren't gay, and they probably aren't Muslim either. they could be all of those things leonhl, your right...but they probably aren't. I'm sure that would've been highlighted in the article had they been, though.

DaveWH, i got your point. your right. every post on MSNBC gets turned into something politically, religiously, or sexuality based issues, when its not. Americans never want to Americans. that's the point.

It's true. I am a white female and I am more frightened of my own race, who claim to be 'christian' at this point. And before I get bashed, I didn't say Christians, I said 'christian', there is a huge difference.

What is wrong with kids these days... it's not like the mom was trying to murder people.

Diverdown1

It's true. I am a white female and I am more frightened of my own race, who claim to be 'christian' at this point. And before I get bashed, I didn't say Christians, I said 'christian', there is a huge difference

Sound like jessie jackson said much the same thing, maybe you two should get together and compair notes, he is more scared of blacks of his race and relieved to see a white, maybe you could hang out togther and comfort the other.

This little girl should have been spanked more. Whe obviously has no respect for her monther and if the mom thinks at 13 it will start now she is mistaken.

Spanking is probably what made the daughter this way. It teaches a child that violence is an acceptable answer to everything.

oh yea cause time out works so well on the screamers and the whiners everywhere "no no honey" "mommy said no no" ya hear the yuppy mom's say that about 50 times in the stores. one heiney crack-NO BEATING-will stop that and the kid will listen and my son grew up healthy,happy,non violent and wonderful. oh and did i mention respectful.

Spanking is probably what made the daughter this way. It teaches a child that violence is an acceptable answer to everything.

Do you have kids? I have 2 boys and my sister in law has 2 girls. I spanked my boys she did time outs and the "no no that is not nice" crap. At family functions everyone can not believe how well behaved my boys are and how absolutely terrible her girls are. Discipline, not beatings or time out, is the answer.

Anecdotal evidence that spanking works is worthless. Even dog trainers know physical punishment is the worst way to train anyone/anything. Why does it work? Because you're bigger than them. Congratulations.

By the logic of someone who spanks if that person as an adult was caught speeding the officer shouldn't write them a ticket, he should take them out of the car and slap them. Think about that the next time you get into a disagreement with your spouse--does that mean whomever is ultimately deemed to be correct gets to physically punish the other person? If it isn't acceptable for adults why for children?

Guess I'm another one of those well-adjusted people that was disciplined with spankings as a child. I learned right from wrong, and how to behave. Sounds like you didn't get disciplined, Michael1601; it sounds like you were abused if you really feel that way about your mother.

There is a big difference between discipline and abuse. I do not have children myself yet, but I guarantee that I will do the same to my child if he/she does something serious enough to warrant a spanking.

Mindie, your boys are not well behaved. They live in fear. Way to go. When they grow up, I hope they abandon you like I have my mother. That's what you deserve. It is not necessary to inflict pain on a child to get it to do what you want.

LOL I don't beat my child. But thanks for wishing my children to abandon me you're awesome too!! My boys love me and don't live in fear. They also dont get spankings anymore since they are so well behaved. They still do naughty things like all children do but the punishment fits the crime.

Think about that the next time you get into a disagreement with your spouse--does that mean whomever is ultimately deemed to be correct gets to physically punish the other person? If it isn't acceptable for adults why for children?

Oh yes he can spank me anytime he wants to. I usually ask for them though I don't need to be too bad to get them!

Michael - I get the feeling you were abused, not spanked.

and yes, there is a clear difference.

I was spanked as a child, it NEVER felt like abuse...I never loathed my parents for punishing me.

Most of the time, it was well warranted it.

The reality is, some kids respond to spankings and others dont. It's on the parent to figure out what is working and adjust, not force their idea of parenting on their kids despite it not delivering the best results.

It'll be on Mindie to figure out whether her kids respect her or fear her, and she better hope it's more the former than the latter.

You should never fear what you love...

Michael, do you have kids? I find it's usually the people who don't have them "know" more about how to raise children than actual parents do...(sarcasm).

Beating a child and showing them that their actions have appropriate consequences are two different things. Maybe you should see a therapist to solve your anger problems towards your mother and people in general.

That mother will have to live the rest of her life with the pain of knowing her daughter is too stupid to kill someone after three tries.

That mother will have to live the rest of her life with the pain of knowing her daughter is too stupid to kill someone after three tries

LOL Try and if you do not succeed try try again!

Michael1601 you must have been abused. i was raised getting spankings, and if my kids misbehave they get spanks. and you know what? i have never been in trouble with the law, i still have a good relationship with my mom, and my kids are the best behaved kids i know. they don't even get spanks very often because they are just good! all these @!$%#s that say to coddle your child are whackjobs. it used to be very commonplace to spank. the bible says " spare the rod, spoil the child" and not that i agree with spousal disipline- but the term "rule of thumb" goes waaay back to when men couldnt use anything wider than their thumb to hit the spouse with. all this no violence preaching is just raising up a generation of pussies. ill-behaved, spoiled rotten pussies. yes i said it.

These three little b!t(hes need some REALLY TOUGH LOVE. Because they are so stinking young, I would like to think that they may be 'saveable'. Kids this young are STUPID, IGNORANT and hopefully TEACHABLE. They should probably spend some time in juvenile lock up, in SOLITARY CONFINEMENT (away from the regular population of bad girls) for at least 30-days. They also need to participate in LOTS of community service for the next 2-years, helping pick up trash from local city streets, bus stations, their school, or other public places as well as be on probation until they are 18 years old.

What they did was HORRIFIC, (fortunately they didn't succeed), but because they are soooo young AND STUPID, STUPID, STUPID, they need some lessons in life. Maybe they should spend some time talking to women who are in prison, and have the women prisoners explain what it really means to be CONFINED. If she thought her mother was too strict.............the little wenches have no idea.

Discipline is one thing. Physically striking your children is another.

You can be firm and very, very harsh without ever having to lay a hand on your children. If you can't think of ways to punish them with hitting them, then you've failed as a parent. That's it, end of line.

There is a difference between a swat on the butt to get their attention and hitting them. And as they grow older age appropriate punishment for their behavior.

I think this mother did not do what she needed to at age 1, 2, 3 4 etc and now has an out of control brat.

Michael1601-

I have two siters and a brother. We were spanked when we were kids and we all still love our mother and havent abondened her and no we don't live in fear and never did when we were living with her.

Spankings done the right way is discipline not abuse. It should be just hard enough to sting buttocks. Hitting anywhere else on body and harder than sting is abuse. Parents should never spank kids in anger because they can over do it.

Mindie- Like you, I have a boy and he rarely get spanked anymore because he is well behaved and he doesn't live in fear. He love me and his mother. I have noticed through myself, my own kid, and other people who spanks their kids, when done right when kids are young, by time the kids are teens, they almost never need spankings any more because by then, they usually are well behaved.

Spankings vs Time-Outs all depend on the kid, seriously. TIme Outs or taking toys away are VERY effective on my daugher, works great. I've swatted her butt a few times too, but she just says "Don't Hit me!" doesn't get the point through (and she was 2.5 and 3 saying that) plus, i want to teach her not to hit, so she is already associating spanking and hitting....so that fails!

Michael,

I hope you are in counseling. You must have been seriously abused by your mother. You are trying to project your anger onto people you don'tknow. This makes you ripe to be an abuser yourself. I hope you are in counseling.

Michael... is just a dumb ass troll.

Never in my life did it cross my mind to do harm to my parents no matter how much I wanted to do something they said I couldn't. Of late, I frequently read in the news about young teens trying to harm their parents. Our culture is to lenient, to victimized and to violent. Parents let their kids do whatever they want, refuse to let them suffer consequences and the kids act on baser instincts - via all the violence they see in videos, movies, tv ect.

The grandmother shot her grandkid 8 times, so she wanted to make sure he was dead. However, the story did hint that the kid had been acting out violently, and was in an alternative school. Those are for the bad behavior kids. Also noted that said kids divorcing parents had left him with granny while they moved to Arizona (alone? together?). Yet another case of parents not raising the kid, and grandparents are no longer able to keep up with them.

Assnine psychologist have made everyone a victim. Assnine left wing liberals keep trying to create their idea of Utopia so everything is a crime now if it offends any one person. Utopia is impossible by the way. And kids think they can just strike out whenever they want. Paarent claim their kids are perfect and can't possibly be at fault. I know, I'm a teacher.

Alan, if it was the new norm, you'd hear people discussing the trend in homicidal teenagers, not sensationalizing the rare case of a psychopathic kid and her friends who were clearly too stupid to kill the girl's mother.

And, if it's new, how does that explain Shanda Sharer?

Or the Menendez boys previously mentioned? Or Leopold and Loeb?

Most teens go through the "bad associates" stage, and can be easily influenced by their friends, and in turn they can be a bad influence on their friends as well. Kids are STUPID! They do not have life experience, and they have NO WISDOM.

These three little brats will KNOW what STRICT is when they spend years in a detention center. If these kids are so out of control at 13, I imagine their life is going to amount to pure garbage. So glad the mother didn't die, I feel sorry for her trying to do the right thing raising her daughter. I bet these brats at 13 have into sex and drugs already. I hope the State of California steps up and does the right thing. That's locking them up for a loooooong time.

Why does she even have a curfew at 13? At that age, I wasn't even allowed to go out late enough at night to need a curfew. During the summer months, I came home when the streetlights came on. During the school year, I was too busy studying at night to go anywhere.

Me too! If the streetlights had come on and my behind was in the door I was late! At 13 I think my bedtime was 8:30. Nowadays kids are running all over the street. What is wrong with society?! They are kids and are not mature enough to be out late at night by themselves.

Well, Mindie, I must admit that I like your attitude about your spouse spanking you, but does he let you spank him back??? :)

LOL Oh yes It wouldnt be fair for the rooster and not the hen :)

Mindie - we found something we agree on!!! But are you good at it??? :) And, more importantly, is he??? :) :) :)

The best :)

Glad you two agree on something. That rarely happens on here :)

Living it up in the Hotel California...Her mind is Tiffany-twisted, she got the Mercedes bends

Tell me please one State, any State, that does not experience similar scenarios day after day.

IMO only people who are not able to live in California like to criticize it.

If you do live here and are not happy with your situation, we strongly encourage you to leave.

California certainly does have more than it's share of people on social services.

Just don't come to Montana!! We have enough California whiners jackin things up over here!

Auzziegirl - I do not live in California, but I visited once and I got out of there as soon as I could. That was in 1970. I have no desire to come back. So no worries.

OMG - I would LOVE to live in CA. Especially the southern part. The weather is always beautiful and the people are amazing.

Today's parents are too busy living their lives to actually parent and they don't want to be the parent that they had growing up. So they make a 180 degree turn and they mollycoddle their kids and try to be their friends. Result? Teachers, neighbors and police have to raise the kids

@Jeff Jefferson - and how can that apply to this case, since the attempts on the mom's life were made because she was "too strict"? Don't have all the details but it doesn't sound like the mom here was mollycoddling and too busy living her own life. And the mom called the cops instead of trying to make excuses for her poor little darling and her friends, too. So obviously, there's more at work re: why kids do things like this than just the knee-jerk reaction of parents not parenting.

Could be the mom isn't really that strict and so any little curfew or criticism has set off the kid. Or a case of too little too late. Spoil them when they are young and then try to control them a teens.....doesn't work.

We don't know enough obviously.

It's the lack of parenting, I can tell you that for sure. I was born in 1980 and grew up watching violent TV, movies, etc. and playing violent video games from a relatively early age (Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, etc.). But I am a pacifist and generally do not think violence is the answer to much of anything. My parents just taught me the difference between reality and things like TV and video games. Most parents these days are simply not providing the guidance while allowing their children to view these things. And there probably are some kids who are not mature enough to handle them, in which case, their parents need to step in and take the game/show away until they are ready.

I was a strict mom: I said "no," denied privileges, punished when necessary, disciplined when necessary, looked for creative ways to parent. I remember the first time my daughter ran away from home. I filed a police report. When the police found her she was furious with me.

She is 27 now. We are estranged. According to her, I was very lucky she never called Social Services on me because I was so abusive.

Bad parents dont just affect their own kids. Theres a lot of the "well my friends get to do this, so you are evil for not letting me" So yes, this case does boil down to bad parenting, just not this parent.

L in Princeton....what is it you are trying to say? That you were too strict or that you weren't? I am sorry you are estranged...but if you are crazy then she is better off, however, if she is crazy, then you are better off. Then again, if the relationship can be repaired, then great...because life is really short and people die and then you can't repair anything.

Yes, the Menendez brothers and these two KILLERS are still in prison. AND, keep them there.

A 13 year old with a point? Michael, you are doing to much drugs or you are a totally liberal fruitcake.

Maybe "strict" is just the child's way of putting her mother's maniacal, tyrannical, humiliating, abusive nature into words. I know what I'm talking about. I've been there. It is entirely possible. You obviously think children are just parental possessions to be treated any way the parents wish, and that those children should just shut up and take it. After all, children are just children - they shouldn't have any rights, feelings, opinions, or thoughts, huh?

If that's the case, call social services or run away. These days its possible to "divorce" your parents due to circumstances.

Murdering someone is rarely justifiable.

I noticed that to. I have friends whose parents were strict, and those who were "strict". The second is still in therapy for abuse because no one said anything for fear of up setting the parents.

Michael1601 - I would tend to agree with you. I feel it's unlikely that a child would kill their parent for simply being strict with curfew. I think you'd have to be a fly on the wall in that house for awhile to get the whole back story.

Michael1601 I agree with you too, to some extint. I had friends in school that were ABUSED...there is a difference and sometimes the parents are to blame. Remember the story a week or so ago about the mother putting bleach in the eyes of the child. Parents, just because they are adults can be evil too. We need to know more of the story, really, to make a call on that.

AND, whoever it was that used the word LIBERAL is just trying to start a fight.

Well, my daughter did when she was that age. She'd complain, but always with a sense of humor.

I must be REALLY strict then, my daughter is almost 16 and she still has to be home by ten.

Maybe the mother is the criminal, and the child is in the right.

If the mom was abusive, then the kid could have gone to a school counselor or the police and reported it. This story mentions none of this.

Or maybe her hormones could have taken over and done this. We don't know enough.

Just because it isn't mentioned doesn't mean it wasn't happening. And maybe a severely abused 13 year old wouldn't trust another adult - afraid the adult would snitch on her, resulting in further abuse. My point is this - every time you hear one of these stories, quit assuming the child is always wrong and the parent always right. That often is not the case!

Maybe the mother is the criminal, and the child is in the right.

Really? Attempting to murder her mother is "in the right"? Really? There are legal ways to deal with an abusive parent. Not that anything in the article even hints that the mother was abusive. Instead of spending all of the time to plot to murder her mother three times, she could have talked to a guidance counselor, contacted a child abuse hotline, called police, etc.

Johnny, if her mother was abusive, maybe the child is afraid of, and distrusts, all adults. The child is 13!!! Don't expect her to rationalize and react like an adult. If she couldn't trust her mother, why would she trust anyone else???

Michael,

You appear to be a grown up now. GET OVER IT and MOVE ON!!!!!

Michael...people that haven't been through it, aren't going to get it. Laura...not everyone can just GET OVER IT...how very kind of you.

Or, she could be a psychopath. I had an abusive parent--a seriously unhinged psychopathic sadist of a parent, to be exact. While it never crossed my mind to save that person from their evil excesses (said parent used to threaten murder-suicide enough that I'd get as far away as I could and just figured, 'let them.') I don't know if I could have plotted something out, under any circumstance, and been able to live with myself.

Even if this mom was a psychologically manipulative wretch of a human being--does that really justify trying to kill her? That's just as bad as the argument for that grandmother in Michigan--frankly, murder is murder. Unless the person is actively trying to kill you, there is no reason to take that life.

Diverdown,

If someone can't let go of the past they doom their entire future.

Why not?

Because the only reason to do so would be to prejudge the mother to be guilty, which you've obviously already done because of your history.

And everyone else is assuming the child is guilty.

Most people here probably are simply because the kids were arrested. Unless I missed something in the article though, all there is so far is a case of she-said/they-said.

And everyone else is assuming the child is guilty.

Because she had the time to plot to kill her mother, enlisted two friends, and attempted it 3 times. If she was abused, trying to murder her mother is still a crime. She is guilty. This isn't 1980 where people turned a blind eye to abuse. There are many outlets now she could have seeked one out. Don't give me the she didn't trust people crap either cuz she trusted her two accomplices/friends and they could have told their parents or someone else for her. Dead end. She's guilty.

Mindie, she trusted two other children. If she was abused, she probably wouldn't have trusted any other adult.

but her friends should have gone to an adult. IF the mother abused the girl she is responsible still for the attempted murder maybe at a lesser degree, but her friends will be in just as much trouble because they were not the ones being abused so they should and could have gone to an adult.

Perhaps it was the friends who coerced the daughter into attempting murder.

Good point I hadn't thought of that, Laura. All in all the friends should be in some serious trouble.

God, I hope you don't have children. Tens of thousands of kids today with parents like you are in therapy and on medication, just trying to get over the long term effects of that kind of abuse. I know - I'm one of them. That kind of abuse destroys a child from within, and makes their life a living hell for the rest of their lives. She should be punished, but not physically assaulted. You, on the other hand, deserve to be stoned, if you've ever raised your hand to inflict pain on a child. You are a monster.

Geeze, I bet your kids live in fear.

AWWWW, Poor Michael, did mommy tell you "no"? Did you not get a star pupil sticker for every day you were in kindergarten? Life is really unfair, but sometimes you just have to evolve, develop a backbone and stand on your hind legs like a man. Then you can see over the heads of all the babies crawling around on the floor, and reach up to the real rewards. But it takes some maturity and self-discipline, which is pretty near the opposite of all the psycho-babble that is spewed about children today.

No, WychDoctor, my mother abused me both physically and emotionally. Until you've been there, lived with the results, and know what you are talking about, STFU. Heartless jerk. I, like most who were abused as kids, do the best we can in a world full of self righteous a**holes like you who don't know what the hell they are talking about. I'm educated, with a good job, on my own - all that good stuff. But the abuse created severe emotional problems that have cost me friends, relationships, and jobs - and, at times, pushed me to the brink of suicide. I'm glad you as so perfect that you can evolve beyond anything bad that happens to you. Not all of us are so blessed.

Michael1601 -

Don't let the OP's get to you. Unless they've lived your life, they have NO clue what they are talking about. I am also a surviver, but even after 35 years I still sometimes cry. I hope you have found a good therapist. After many, many failed attempts, I have given up.

Let me give it a shot!

Hey, at least the kids weren't Muslim with the parents strapping bombs to them and sending them into crowded streets to blow up.