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Subscribe to RSSTwo Fort Worth, Texas, fishermen charged in the killing of a large alligator say they were protecting themselves and never intended to commit any crime. KXAS-TV's Scott Gordon reports.
Two Fort Worth, Texas, fishermen have been charged in the killing of a large alligator, but both say they were protecting themselves and never intended to commit any crime.
Keyon Ivory, 31, and his friend, Patrick Miller, 34, said they panicked when they encountered the gator while fishing earlier this month along the Trinity River near the Fort Worth Nature Center.
"I was in the front seat here, steering," Ivory told NBCDFW.com, pointing to his small bass boat.
Suddenly, he saw the alligator rising from the water. He said it was "a huge one; I mean, bigger than the boat we were on."
Read original story on NBCDFW.com
The boat is 10 feet long. The alligator was 11.
"I was scared. I was very scared," Miller said. "When it started coming towards us, that's when we really got scared."
The men said they feared for their lives and jumped out of the boat.
"I instantly panicked," Ivory said. "My heart raced a beat, you know. I mean us, everyday guys, we don't see something like that on the water every day."
Miller admitted that he shot the gator. He said he brought the gun with him because it was new and he didn't want someone to steal it from his car.
Ivory then called 911 to report what had just happened.
"We tried doing the right thing," Miller said.
They waited for sheriff's deputies to arrive and said they fully cooperated.
Investigation contradicts attack claim
The men initially claimed in the 911 call that they had been attacked, but the investigation found they did not shoot the gator in self-defense, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department spokesman Mike Cox said.
Ivory got tickets for having an unregistered boat and not having life preservers.
Miller was cited for illegal hunting and fined $5,300.
He said he cannot pay the fine.
"We just don't want to go to jail," Ivory said.
Both men apologized for what they did, even though they thought at the time they were protecting themselves, they said.
"Most of all, we have our remorse for it," Ivory said. "I want to apologize, like I say, over and over again to the Nature Center about it because we're not no poachers. We would never harm anything. We would never shoot an innocent bird."
They both said they have had nightmares since the incident.
Animal experts say most alligators do not pose a threat to people.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
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Yeah....... who goes fishing with a gun?
People who might be bothered if they ran across a snake near or around the boat. Also people who don't want to leave a new gun in their car...go figure thieves love to break into parked cars.
ok..... lot's of snakes out there swimming in the water? Bears too? Of course.... I hear there are some giant a$$ halibut in the Trinity River in Texas. I leave my guns locked up at home unless i'm planning on USING them....... Go Figure.
Deemo.....I DO......most folks in alaska do......I carry for numerous reasons, snakes, bears,cougars and the nastiest out there, MAN!!!! Walk into the middle of a pot farm and see what kind of reception U get!!!!!
I bet U really don't own any guns either!!!!!! U sure don't talk like a gun owner!!!!!
Texas redneck hillbillies take their guns everywhere...and how else are they gonna get their women???
I do all the time guess you never been fishing in your life huh
susant...there are those of us, women, in Texas that carry too. Personally, I'm not looking to attract more than I currently have. When we go out into the country I carry a pistol to shoot snakes...it takes about two seconds to shoot a snake where it takes the ER several to mediate the medical issue.
I am armed at home too....some "snakes"s will enter a strangers home without being invited in...and shame on em.
To put the question another way, what business do you or the police have in asking why they had a gun with them? Why do you think you need to know? Frankly, you and the police DON'T need to know why they had a gun with them. They have a right to have it, and that's good enough.
Where I live you always have to be on the lookout for cotton mouths wanting to climb into your boat and also coming out of low hanging trees so yes I do have either my 22 cal rifle or 32 cal pistol when I go fishing
txmom #1.6 , couldn't help but laugh. "Some snakes will enter a strangers home...." Like the one eyed trouser snake. In that case use a knitting needle.
Bubbas and others. Going fishing does not preclude wearing a gun - hello.
Now as to the story told. Well, who knows.
Deemo, I don't know where you are from but here in Florida (and I have relatives in Texas and is very similar) you just NEVER know what you are going to come up on. It could be a snake. It could be you are cornered by an alligator. It could be a bear. It could be a slimeball who wants to steal your money, rape your wife, and kill you. Regardless, I don't go ANYWHERE without my 357 magnum and when fishing or even hiking or off bike-riding the 357 is right there with me.
Now let's talk alligators for a minute: I grew up on a large natural lake in Central Florida and back in the late 60's and early 70's the alligator population was down and well protected (and rightly so). It was RARE when out fishing that you would see a gator but even if you did it was maybe 5 or 6 feet long. But the population of these critters have EXPLODED over the last 40 years. Now you CAN'T go fishing without seeing at least 4 or 5 gators and these suckers are no longer 5 and 6 feet long. Now it is common to see 9 and 10 foot gators and an occasional 12 to 13 footer with heads the size of a laundry basket. I got news for you: If you are in a 10 foot boat and an 11 foot gator is nearby there would be INCREDIBLE concern.
I don't know if the story of these guys matches to evidence but they called 911 immediately so they didn't intend to "poach" the gator. Slap them with a $75 fine and move on. Quite honestly, if that had happened to me and I was truly scared and put two bullets through that massive head then I would have found a well grassed area and pushed that gator in the lily pads. Nobody would ever find the gator, within a week it would be gone, and even if found nobody would ever link it to me. Is that the right thing to do? No, of course not. But government is no longer rational, logical, or looking out for your best interest. Now they give more "weight" to animals and land than to the citizens. Push that gator carcass in the lily pads, go back to the truck, get the boat out of the water, then go home.
Funny Rick....I think I would get out my sons bow and shoot that with a target arrow.
what i want to know is why did they jump out of the boat.that like saying is eat me.
doesnt texas have a stand your ground law?
I'll bet the boys (and a couple of girls) from "Swamp People" are laughing their heads off right now...
Crocodile Dundee...oops.....that was dynamite
I dont know where the confusion is.....11 ft gator...10 ft boat.....ummmm I'd of done the same as ProBusiness above. I also dont know where some of these commenters have gotten their information, and as far as the reporting agency...they should be put in with that gator, till they let a lil sunshine in.
I hope y'all posting all these "Bubba" and "Hillbilly" remarks know that these guys are black. I know you gun-hating liberals would never attack a black guy so I assume your sorry, right?
Liberals. God love em! LMFAO!!
Do you think it might have been species profiling?
Red...I actually bothered to watch the clip and knew they were Texans of African ancestry...I just figure they have the same right as I do to carry a hand gun to shoot snakes and well gators when they become a concern. I am still sorry the one guy received such a high fine....he was doing the right thing by reporting it and well that should carry some weight with the authority that would fine them.
But it is fun to watch the nobody should carry guns group fall all over themselves.
Iwantyouot
Not by the same definition as Florida. If someone breaks into my home I can shoot them. Of course there will be an investigation but as long as I was in my home and felt threatened then I have the legal right to protect myself, my family and my property.
If I am walking in my neighborhood and I see a suspicious person I am welcome to call 911 with a description but should not follow. If I am patrolling on behalf of our neighborhood watch I should not be carrying a weapon, if I see a suspicious character then I should call 911 with a description. If I am carrying a weapon and am attacked out in my community I can shoot someone who attacks me and then show the police that I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. There would be an investigation and I could possibly be arrested and the court would have to sort it out.
I would think that under the circumstances described, the last thing I would have done is jump out of the boat, just sayin'.
Funny it took an hour to determine these guys molested the gator in its habitat and it wasn't self defense but it took forever to charge Zimmerman....Who also started trouble and messed with someone so it is not self defense either..
Did they find the gator's Skittles?
hmmm...
Gators like marshmallows,I don't know about Skittles......I know they don't drink Arizona Iced-Tea...
Makes perfect sense. Just swim faster than the other guy.
lol
Use the Zimmerman defense
Funny how a man can shoot a gator that's looking for a meal and the police get bent out of shape but shoot an unarmed black kid coming home from a 7-Eleven and the police try to dismiss it. Go figure.
wheels460....you are a @!$%#ing idiot!
Maybe the aligator should have gotten them. Odd how hunters feel they should never be the prey, shouldn't we even out the playing field? Hell, maybe thin the inbred herd some too!
Lets be honest about all these Zimmerman comments, because I am getting pretty sick of those that represent the facts falsely. The fact is, there are NO, absolutely NO accounts that he was coming back from 7-11. That was his parents story that he was coming back from 7-11 for a juice and skittles. The police have even stated that there were no skittles or juice at the scene.
Speaking of the scene...7-11 was not in the direction treyvon was walking, explain that one....fact
Jeez enough about the Zimmerman case...it's as bad as whining about politics.
Just stay on the topic, please. If we wanted to hear about that other stuff we would go to the apporopriate forum.
Sniperf2a.. really? really? where did you get your facts? there WAS skittles and iced tea on him... there is a VIDEO of him at the store minutes before he was shot.. and trayvon was walking HOME from the store, so of course 7-11 wasn't in the direction Trayvon was walking.
MEWERS...no there was not. The evidence was presented about a week and half ago. The police stated that whatever he bought, if he bought anything at all, was not at the scene. If this video at the 7-11 actually exists, why wouldnt his defense use it? (Also I did a quick search and this shows up on sites as fake, there is no actual video). He jumped a 6 1/2 foot high fence to get in the community, when he could have walked around and probably got there in less time than jumping the fence. Interesting when someone has the real facts huh?
why did they jump out of the boat.
You beat me to it mewers......
There is a video and I've seen it and he clearly bought skittles and ice tea like the reports said.....you might want to google the video and see for yourself..
And if I see a 11 ft alligator the last thing I'd do is jump in the water with the darn thing.
because you can only have a gun if you are going to or coming from your truck in texas
iceman, it says right in the article why they jumped out of the boat.
they were in the shallows, they thought the gator was going to attack the boat or come into the boat after them, so they jumped out and ran for the shore. they were panicking, not thinking rationally.
you really couldn't get that from reading the article?
This is how you know you have entered MSNBC and the liberal community. Connie why do you think the police supposedly "released" that video of some black kid in a hoodie at a 7 11? Its because it was deemed inadmissable in court, it was stated it was impossible to tell if that was treyvon martin or not, what? Hes the only black kid in 7 11 with a hoodie? The official police report says there was no candy or juice or tea at the scene. Not to mention, its hard to jump a 6 foot tall fence with juice in your hand isnt it?
Sniper,you truly are an idiot and so misinformed. You talk complete @!$%#. The iced tea is in a picture as part of the evidence. You sound like my bi-polar ex-husband who talks complete insanity and believes it!
sniperf2a. Troll
@Sniperf2a
I bet you also saw the kid with hand gun, a lock picking tool and a bag of weed, right? Whatever you are smoking, it seems to be working great.
Wow! The alligator only had skittles and tea? I can understand then, I can't fish without beer and porkskins! People stick to the story here, go rant somewhere else!
This isn't anything like the martin case. This is just a couple of bruthas out for a day of fishing and ended up having to shoot. But...
http://www.nbc33tv.com/all-about-animals/fishermen-fined-5300-after-shooting-alligator
not very intelligent people obviously. jumping out of the boat? in the water the gator would have no way of getting in the boat.
An 11 foot gator can turn over a small 10 foot boat.
Still would be safer in the boat until if and when it was capsized, Larry. Try again
Intelligence is not valued where men fish with guns...LOL
Obvously you know nothin about boats or the gators abilities. go up look at the picture.
I'm more surprised that an alligator that size was living so clost to Ft. Worth and hasn't been spotted before this. That isn't natural habitat for gators usually if one is found around DFW it had been released and isn't nearly that big. Their habitat in Texas is further South and East.
Why didn't they just drive off? That bass boat can easily outrun an alligator.
larry, flipping it over isn't getting in it.
breadex, obviously you don't know the difference between pictures and video.
Face it when it come to game and fish and also law enforcement you are be keeping you mouth shut. There job is to prosecute it is how they get promoted and the county, state and fed's make money. This is also how and when you are charged, they take your freedoms.
Who DOESN'T go fishing with a gun? If there are fish to be had, there are probably bears that would also enjoy the fish. In Alaska halibut fishermen frequently have to shoot the fish.
Bears in Texas eating fish? Alaska halibut can be +100lbs but not bass.
Not too many bears out there near Fort Worth lady...check a map will ya?
He said he brought the gun to protect himself.. it turns out he needed it to protect themselves.. what are you arguing about?
People have CHL to carry their guns to protect themselves from people... The only time my car has ever been broken into was at a boat ramp.. so.. makes sense right?
alligators are (mostly harmless) to humans because the average gator is about 6 feet.....they are only going to attack something they know they can bring down. so humans aren't on the menu for a 6 foot gator.....with that being said.......an 11 foot gator is a fairly big one and if its hungry enough you will definitely be on the menu.....they are extremely powerful at that size and can turn over a small boat no problem then drag you under till you drown and stuff your body in a hole under the bank to rot for a few days where it makes it easier to tear you apart to eat........ crocodiles are dangerous to humans because an 11 footer is a SMALL one.......they can grow in excess of 20 feet sometimes.... aaaannd if you mess with mama gators nest, or you are stupid enough to pick up one of her babies and she hears it holler for help she is coming for your ass in the worst way. i grew up around them and they can be dangerous at certain times.
as far as why the clueless are asking why do you bring a gun to go fishing? well bright ones, had not one of these guys brought his gun we would be hearing about how the one guy barely got away (the fastest swimmer) with his life when the 11 foot gator ate his friend.....and when you are out where there are really no people and you come across some slimeballs WHO is gonna help you ? use your cell? right? sure but help is gonna be there in the near future not at that moment when you really need them.....thats why i bring a gun when i go fishing....for you gun friendly folks.......browing hi power in 40 cal small of the back holster.........no one ever sees it unless there is a cottonmouth that want's my fish or some cretin that has made a bad decision on who he is gonna rob.......
Ivory and Miller should also be charged with carrying a handgun outside of their home or car without a concealed handgun license.
I'm thinking since they didn't get a ticket they had the carry permit.
You don't have to have a permit to carry a gun outside of your house in most states. Unless you are carrying it concealed.
A few states don't require a permit to carry concealed either. In most, you can openly carry. As long as you're not a felon.
As lax as Texas is on gun ownership it probably does not matter. We keep a small caliber pistol in our tackle box when we go fishing and have used it several times to ward off snakes and animals.
We should cite everyone who J-walks too. You can't legislate stupidity and hope they get smarter.
Ed, who said it was concealed? and newsflash to you- it isn't illegal to carry a gun in Texas
Some states allow weapons to be carried while concealed without a permit - as long as it is "unloaded". There is a difference between the legal and physical definitions of "unloaded".
Not saying these two are completely forthcoming, but how exactly would that investigation have been conducted to reach that conclusion?
They need a new show: CSI: Fort Worth, because they apparently have the most amazing CSI team in the world to have figured out that the gator wasn't coming after them.
Fish and Wildlife interviewed the other gators in the area.
Their stories didn't match up with the story of the two guys in the boat.
Possibly by the location of the shots in the gator. Maybe the shot trajectories showed thae gator was not coming at the guys? I don't know, but there must be a way to figure it out since it is done all the time.
http://www.nbc33tv.com/all-about-animals/fishermen-fined-5300-after-shooting-alligator
Watch the interview. The bruthas are almost sticking to their story but never refute the police version. Their concern is that they don't go to jail and can't pay the fines.
If they were poaching and had the intention of taking this gator, or any other animal for that matter, illegally, Why would they have called the authorities and report it?
CYA - because they couldn't get it into the boat without capsizing.
Alligators don't impose a threat to people? Where do these "experts" come from? Tell that one to people living in Florida! And when the 'gator is bigger than your boat? Man, when our local sharks show up bigger than boats it's time to head for shore!
but you are so scared you jump out of the boat.
with a hungry 11 foot gator its a 50/50 chance staying in the boat or jumping out......won't really make any difference.......and they can run like a horse on land for a short distance......yes bang bang your alive the gator is dead......sounds a lot better than the other way around for sure!!!!!
Experts. LOL
Jumped out of the boat to save their trophy before it sank after they shot it?
Maybe a stern warning or community service would've sufficed.
Slapping a fine on people trying to do the right thing may result in other people not wanting to do the right thing.
Or they will do the right thing and not tell anyone for fear of getting fined.
If they said nothing, they wouldn't have been getting fined.
Just goes to show you, when dealing with Law Enforcement, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!
If they were not in danger there wasn't a need to call 911. They should have called fish-and-game or animal services.
Slapping a fine on people keeps people doing the right thing - fishing with hooks and line; not fishing with guns
Now we have to let alligators eat us or else go to jail.
Thanks Obama.
This was sooo funny I never laughed so hard..
Sounds like a kid now we gotta get ate or go to jail ... hahahaha
m.fillmore ! what is it with you and like minded people. it's rains an it's obama fault.
Who then tries to foist it onto bush. Anything negative he points the finger, any possible positive he breaks his arm patting himself on the back.
Great. Now these morons will use "stand ur ground" defense when poaching.
The NRA worked their magic in Florida, but it could soon be coming to a state near you. I've heard they are introducing bills like that in many other states, but I sure hope not.
@Orthehighway
Most states already allow you to stand your ground. The Florida law was intended to clear up confusing language in the existing statutes. And why would you hope not anyway? Why should the law require you to run away from an assailant or just stand there and be attacked? Maybe you like being a victim, most people don't.
I'm sorry but if an 11' gator comes at you and if you have a gun, any one of us would shoot first then ask questions later...and how many poachers call 911?
Sounds like a smart crew. Jumped out of the boat? If the gator lunged it could probably upend a small boat, tossing the men overboard. To me it sounds like they didn't get their story straight. Remember, you only need to out swim or out run your fishing or hunting buddy.
I smell hate crime, did the gator have any skittles in his possesion?
Bring some skittles by my house dip@!$%#!!
You like skittles dipped in $h!t? Odd combination. But hey, people thought peanut butter and chocolate were odd at first, also.
give them a slap on the wrist and fines for the boating issues .
Agree....these two guys were going fishing...serious buzz kill to run across a critter bigger than the boat at their local fishing hole.
And then get dressed up in gangsta garb for the local media to brag about how they "have our remorse" for getting caught.
the thinker...It seemed to me that it was more of an apology and I saw no "gangsta" regalia. Just two guys that didn't get to go out on a relaxing fishing day.
Swamp People is one of my favorite shows. There are enough gators in the world. There are not enough handbags, shoes and briefcases, though.
There are enough people that think like you in the world. There are not enough people who respect nature, appreciate wildlife and ecosystems, and are good stewards of the earth.
well if an 11 foot gator wants to eat me and i have a gun he is gonna get all the respect he needs, cause i know if he is set on eating me then killing him is my only real choice.....i like living.....and i see no reason in letting the gator eat me just so some tree huggers can feel good about nature!!!! ha!
How many cowboy boots are there in an 11 foot gator?
good question , quite a few i would think.....and gator tail is quite tasty, seems better than letting him eat you .
The wildlife officer probably wet his pants for the chance to write a $5300 ticket. Wildlife officers have quotas and poachers are in decline so they tend to hunt suckers instead.
FWS are one of the biggest drains on society that there is. The way this country is headed I carry a gun every where I go. They are nothing but armed goons on a power trip.
This account makes absolutely no sense at all. I lived in Florida for over 15 years - and attended UF where alligators share the campus with students. I could often see alligators lounging on the edges of ponds and waterways when walking to classes and hear them "barking" in the water canals just a few feet from the sidewalks. Alligators are typically not aggressive towards people - in fact, they usually leave an area or hide when they see people. And it makes no sense, if you are worried about an alligator in the water, to get out of the boat - none at all. I wonder if this was some sort of attention getting thing - maybe the guys were trying to promote themselves for a reality show or something? It's the only plausible explanation I can think of.
The ONLY 'Good' Gator is a 'DEAD GATOR - spoken by a True FSU Seminole !!!
That's why they got the ticket. They made up the story of the attack and then probably asked if they could keep the gator.
Not so Mike - GATOR'S ROCK!!!!!
@Orthehighway
One flaw in your theory, they wouldn't have needed to make up a story if they hadn't called 911. They could have just tossed it in the back of their truck and no one would have been the wiser.
What happened here is obvious, did you read their quotes? "We're not no poachers", no they're just a couple of idiots. I'm sure they really were scared even if they had no legitimate reason to be. Unfortunately for them ignorance is rarely a viable defense.
I think it depends on what time of the day they were in the water. I live in coastal South Carolina and there are alligators everywhere. Occasionally a golfer is bit by an alligator (sometimes killed) or a small child is killed in their yard, most of the time neither have provoked the alligator. I've taught my young son to understand how dangerous an alligator can be and to never ever taunt it. If he sees one he is to back away slowly and should watch the animal. If it starts to chase him run like hell and yell for help. Unfortunately here tourists are very guilty of feeding the alligators so they lose that fear and they are predators. To say there is no reason to fear a gator, especially one of that size, probably isn't very logical.
Webster doesn't make any sense.. You say yourself alligators TYPICALLY aren't agressive.. but seem to think it's impossible for one to be agressive... I mean.. i'm pretty sure i'd stay on the boat if an alligator was coming at me.. but you do crazy stuff when you're scared...
not to mention it doesn't say how close they were to shore... It makes it sound like they jumped in the water.. but they could have jumped onto the shore... considering it doesn't say they jumped into the water.. and he shot the alligator.. highly doubtful while swimming.
yeah i dont think when an 11 foot gator rolls up that the average guy is thinking to themselves - "alligators share the campus with students. I could often see alligators lounging on the edges of ponds and waterways when walking to classes and hear them "barking" in the water canals just a few feet from the sidewalks. Alligators are typically not aggressive towards people - in fact, they usually leave an area or hide when they see people". I mean really who's thinking about all of that when they are in a fit of panic????!!!! And then this classic line - "And it makes no sense, if you are worried about an alligator in the water, to get out of the boat - none at all"....Really numbnuts??? i surely wouldnt wait to see if the alligator upends my boat throwing me into the water where now I'm off balance and can be easily ate. No I'd get out if i can swim or can walk to shore and haul ass...
Ever hear of water mocassin's (and other snakes in Tx), of course I'd bring a gun
I didn't know there were such good marksmen when it came to shooting snakes.
A fine that big would give me nightmares too. That lying alligator must have made a statement contradicting them before taking his last breath. BAD ALLIGATOR, BAD. A lesson is to be learned from all this. The next time, don't call 911.
Morons should've just SHOT the Freakin LIZARD (Gator) & KEPT their MOUTHS SHUT !!!
If Obama had a pet gator it would look like that one!
If Bryan had a brain he'd think up something intelligent to say.
Hey Gman, your about as bright as odumbo is. your just mad that he is about to become one and done.
BryanOhio, AWESOME
hey i support obama, but that was funny as hell BryanOhio!!
They shouldn't prosecute them for shooting the gator. I live in Ok and would've done the exact same thing. Also, you don't need a concealed carry license for carrying a hunting rifle in your boat, you need one for carrying a concealed weapon. Most people here carry a gun when fishing this is mostly rural country where we still remember what it's like to live off the land. They should have been thanked for calling the police instead of just leaving people to wonder what happened.
Ok, these 2 are not the sharpest hooks in the tackel box.
Be that as it may, the boating fines are ok, but they take this to a jury in Texas it will just be more wasted tax payer money thanks to Fish & Game.
Since there's no law against killing gators in Oklahoma, they should have shot the critter and dragged it across the state line........then called 911.
Alligators are still protected under the Endangered Species Act because they resemble other animals (American croc, caimans) so they fall under "threatened due to similarity of appearance." States must have a management plan for an alligator to be hunted or killed legally. So yes, OK does have a law (just not a state one) against killing gators since they have no state law, the federal law supersedes. This information is readily available on the Federal Fish and Wildlife website.
Jumped out of the boat when they saw it coming? Shame they cannot be fined for being stupid. No doubt the type that would literally jump from the frying pan into the fire. As far as the gun goes, ever hear of locking it in the trunk or just leaving it at home?
Jeez, guys, give 'em a break. So what they didn't know much about alligators. They obviously weren't naturalists. Just two guys going fishing. Don't know a lot about certain things, but just because of that doesn't mean they're stupid.
I agree, also, that they are probably telling the truth. Otherwise, why would thy bother to call 911?
blue - Have to call 911 - how are you going to hide an 11 foot alligator? LOL