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Subscribe to RSSAhead of Maine's vote to legalize gay marriage, many churches there are planning to pass the collection basket around on Father's Day to help fundraise against the ballot initiative.
Up to 200 churches are expected to raise money for a political action committee opposing the November vote, the Christian Civic League of Maine told The Associated Press.
The Catholic Church won't be joining the alliance, but participants include Methodist, Baptist, Pentecostal, Nazarene, Church of God, Wesleyan, Evangelical Free, Advent Christian and other denominations, the league stated.
While churches and other nonprofits may not raise money for candidates to office, they may raise money for issues important to their members.
Father's Day, June 17, seemed appropriate for a special church collection because of the day's focus on family, league Director Carroll Conley Jr told the AP. Additional collections are expected in the months ahead.
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"The messaging we're using is that those who are seeking to redefine marriage in Maine believe there's no difference between moms and dads," Conley told the AP. "We believe those differences are relevant. We don't think the differences in the genders are societally imposed roles, and we believe that children benefit when they're in that ideal environment where there's a mom and dad."
AP noted that several churches are working to pass the initiative.
The referendum is about inclusion, a "loving God" and being nonjudgmental and compassionate, said Rev. Sue Gabrielson, the minister at the Sanford Unitarian Universalist Church.
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Hope they all screw up and loose their Tax exemption.
If they want to play in Politics, then they should have to pay taxes for the right.
Some needs to call the IRS. Clearly this is political activity.
I agree. This is hardly ambiguous -- they are pursuing a political agenda. I do not belong to a church, yet I end up indirectly supporting the churches in my community because they pay no property taxes. The rest of us have to cover that slack. And for what? For a bunch of bigots.
Yet they marry their brother or sister.. Go figure..
The fact that they are not taking up a collection to ban divorce just goes to prove this is all about hatred and nothing to do with a stable environment for children. My wife and I got married with no intention whatsoever of having children. How come Christians don't have any interest in banning MY marriage? I mean, in their eyes we are obviously profaning the institution, are we not? This is nothing but fear and hatred, disguised as piety. As usual.
when are they going to learn it is not their place to judge.
Here's what you have NOT heard about.
Those of us who are Mainers, are part of a more loving and inclusive Christian fellowship (intentionally leaving out the names), who believe that this is a travesty, unloving, unChristian, and hypocritical.
The Christian Civic League painfully reminds us of the White Citizen's Councils of the 50's and 60's
I have yet to hear any conservative clearly explain the problem with gay marriage in a legal sense.
I mean, sure, you think God calls it an abomination. However, that position is clearly a matter of opinion and interpretation, since there are so many Christians that disagree, and recognize the hypocrisy in interpreting ONE part of Leviticus so literally while ignoring the rest.
Nobody is trying to make people who don't believe in gay marriage perform, condone, agree with, or even give a crap about gay marriages. Legalizing gay marriage does not mean they must be performed in churches, so how does that go against anyone's faith, or attack anyone's faith? Christians' definition of marriage is a religious definition, not a legal one.
And since there is a SEPARATION OF CHURCH & STATE, what, exactly, is the reasoning for it being ILLEGAL? 38 Freaking States have made it illegal. How does this even make sense?
So I have heard lots of religious arguments, but no LEGAL, LAW-BASED arguments.
Why would anyone conclude that a court case, especially if it ends up in this Supreme Court, would take away the church's tax exemption. This court has been taken over by the most right wing, most biased, most activist justices ever. These right wing fools would endorse a fascist agenda as long as it supported their religion, their conservative politics, their wealthy friends. They've already made it abundantly clear that corporations can buy elections . . . 'cause they're people, too, even if they will never face a day in jail for killing anyone or destroying the environment, or wrecking the economy.
Wake up America . . . those freedoms you celebrate are only a conservative president away.
They are well within their rights, even according to the article.
Really the church not being able to speak freely about political matters without losing it's tax exempt status is an infringment on freedom of speech.
The law works as designed. It shuts up the religious right and allows anyone who supports a democrat to support a candidate to violate the law.
DB, that is so not how this all works...but good try. This one you can't spin to make the liberals' or Democrats' fault. I haven't seen the religious right being very quiet. They are usually pretty busy trying to take the things over that they don't already run.
Yes, America is very sick. Sick to the core to allow church crap to even voice their opinion without paying taxes.
Get those church bastards to pay as everybody else does and after that they can voice an opinion. Until that time - shut the f$ck up you religious idiots!
Rubbish. The reason churches are tax exempt is because they are supposed to remain out of politics and affairs of government. If they want to be political, then pay taxes like the rest of us.
Wrong....the reason churches are tax exempt is that government is not to be allowed to control the church, and once you have the power to tax you have the power of control. On the other side the church is not to be allowed to control the government, but members of a church are allowed to vote their conscience, and give money to what ever cause they feel embodies their conscience.
Funny these churches cannot raise enough money to pay a property tax when our nation is up to it's ears in debt but have no problem raising money for intolerance.
THE BIBLE WAS WRITTEN BY MAN STOP PUSHING IT AS THE WORD OF THE LORD
Totally agree Howy
then do away with marriage - period!
and so is what you have written, but if it comes from spirit - it is of a deeper nature - and it rings true, and it is backed by a conscious of Right Actions 0- for harmony of a people on this planet. Do away with MARRIAGE - before you desecrate it for the horned goats....WE DO NOT NEED GOD TO TELL US WE ARE MARRIED! tHERE - SATISFIED?
If Marriage was only a sacrament of the church, we would not be having this discussion.
But with over 1000 Financial benefits associated with "marriage", it left for the realm of Mammon a long time go.
The mystical Flying spaghetti monster says it's ok to marry who you want. Therefore it is FACT. Congratulations "christians" You have managed to force another one from the flock. I denounce my religious beliefs; because I cannot believe in a god or saviour who relishes hate.
I have converted to pastafarianism.
Ramen.
amen
Ramen - lol!
Howy, correct, marriage is nothing more than a man devised contractual partnership agreement that is recognized by government as such. Has nothing whatsoever to do spirituality of god.
ya know why don't these churchs all get together and raise money to pay-off peoples homes that are in Foreclosure, now that would freakin make a real difference, whether homosexuals get married or not thats between God and them, but actually raising money to fight this is just another busy something for a church that don't mean jack, but the raising money for foreclosure homes now thats a church filler-upper....
Vinny
Actually, churches do help people at times. While I was laid off, they helped us with our bills, and occaisionally sent us gift cards for food.
Yeah, but they wouldn't raise a fraction of what they raise, when they raise money to do a christian Hate Crusade. That's what gets christians excited. Hate. That gets christians excited and gets them to write checks.
Big Deal. I dont care how many soup kitchens they run, how many of your car payments they made for you in a tough time. The tens of thousands of children who have been raped, molested and abused by church officials in the US, and the HATE that churches spread, can NEVER be made up by serving some hot meals to poor people. What little charity they provide can NEVER make up for the evil they do. Their handouts come with too high a price tag.
You left out the doctors, lawyers, police, teachers, principals, judges, politicians and every other career and job holder that there is. Child sex abuse is not a church thing. I just read that a man doctor was arrested for soliciting a minor male child who turned out to be a cop on the internet. Have you ever watched that show where they say up stings to arrest child predators and listen to what their line of work was? If I had my way and these scum were proved without a doubt that they abused a child in any way they would be executed in the public square. But this commentary is not about that, it is about the people who attend a church having a right to get together and raising resources to correct a wrong. The article does not say that the church leaders stood on a platform and told their respective congregations to do this. These people may have elected politicians in their state who they did not research what their morals and values were, what they should do is fire them and elect someone who has morals and values.
Guess this church hates not having to pay taxes...
Sometimes I can respect churches for the good they do. Have they examined what good this will do?
Until they start a collection to ban Divorce anything they do in regards to marriage equality is built out of fear, ignorance and hypocrisy.
What ever happened to a personal relationship with god, instead we get religion messing with the law.
Thank you, for your intelligence shines in the darkness! And there is a heart feeling, which one can only experience, in the collective energy of GOOD people, getting together, singing from the heart, in gratitude, thankfulness and reverence - we have a deeper respect of the underlying energy of all life. It is more live and let live, in the true church of Christ -my church is awesome - and I love the people....it is a breath of fresh air - from the confused, mental giants trying to run the show who have NO Foundation of goodness whatsoever.
If they succeed in beating back gay marriage they will then turn to birth control, then prayer in PUBLIC schools, then divorce. We can not give religion an inch because they want the whole enchilada. None of us will be free from their crazy, hate filled agenda. A plague on their houses.
I will always be dumbfounded by the "ideal environment where there's a mom and dad" sentiment. Sorry to break it to you but a same-sex couple's inability to get married isn't all of a sudden going to prompt them to split, marry the opposite sex, and have a child.
ahem.....they can not PRO_create with out the help of MAN!!! Marriage is of the spirit - and man wants to BIND 2 people together, for to have a partnership of SEX, and Living together, and Love of the same sex - well - YOU Don't need SPIRIT"S permission, or God' s- YOU ARE DOING IT ANYWAY!!! And what STATE joins together, only STATE will tear asunder! This is so ASININE - when for governmental reasons - people are DIVORCING in order to get MORE STATE Aid and to get MORE back in TAX dollars!!!! So what really are we feeding here: Egotistical Gratification, for people who inherently are 'different' - so they need LAWS??? YOu didn't need LAWS telling you it was LEGAL for Blacks to marry Whites! This 'law' is CHILDISH and feeds only the JUDICIAL SYSTEM - as DIVORCES Go UP! Get over it, Grow Up, and live and let live - but don't go changing THOUSANDS of years - to satisfying your butt-plugging activities!
The desire to be part of a family isn't limited to heterosexuals. It's strong enough to tempt many homosexuals into marrying someone of the opposite sex. But that doesn't make them straight, it makes them (and their unfortunate heterosexual partner) unhappy, unfaithful, or divorced. Isn't it far better for everyone to have the right to marry someone they can love without reservation?
I agree with you: a lot of unhappy, despairing people, locked into a world of self-deceptions because they are not free: making more laws will NEVER give them the happiness their hearts, their souls are seeking...that is every souls homework - is to figure out the nature of reality...and support your GOOD and stand up to UNHEALTH! for it will take over, so easily - as we see in this country, in this so called Enlightened time. Know yourself - that means being quiet, reflecting, listening to your spirit - for we all have one - listen....you will see and know. Peer Pressure is frenetic and chaotic now because we are at a time or televised connectivity- no more riding the fence. There is Pro-Life and there is Anti-Life. Figure out which you feed and uphold and that is your karma and future. If you know your heart, you are on 'track' and it just feels like you're living in sunshine, no matter the darkness of the wormy world. And if you track all issues back to the foundation of love, all things can be known. This marriage issue - needs to be BANNED all to gether, before allowing Confused People CRAZED by SEX to make Laws to Make them FEEL better about themselves - same goes for straights, crookeds and swingers!
The idea that some egotists think they should put upon us their feelings, and rules is what really makes me understand the religious right. They care not to make thing better or fairer, only to impose their will on everybody else. They say they preach the word of "God" and "Jesus", yet they are really speaking the words of men who roamed the earth 2 to 6 thousand years ago, words that were written to keep up the power that they had. Time for the Church to grow up and "Let my people be free!".. And for the people in government to start making things "equal and fair" for all people, not just the 1% with money, or the 2% with religion..
Wow. Roberta's World: a camera in every bedroom, monitoring and persecuting anything that isn't the heterosexual missionary position! And, boy o boy! You all better pro-create in Roberta's World!
Roberta needs to get laid BAD. She has no idea what great sex is (or even that it exists for some of us) let alone how to achieve it, THATS the problem here.
((Never mind--it's simply way too late for her I'm sure--just too far gone))
I guess hate and intolerance are the new christian "values".
...I would say they have always been....The Inquisition, The Salem Witch trials.....
NEW!?? What else has Christianity EVER stood for? The good news is church attendance AND crime have been declining for decades in America. Less religion always means healthier society.
Careful. The same could be said of the pro-gay marriage group.
Do you not know that lifting your hand against them may be you lifting your hand against God?
Do you not know that God will not punish on thoughts, but rather acting on those thoughts?
What will you do, when he vindicates them for honoring his wishes and demotes those who rail against them?
Looking out for numero uno-thats all Christians are doing.If they see being gay as a sin-and they are not gay themselves-then what the flip is the problem?Murder is a sin,adultery is a sin,but if others commit either-dosn't make us all sinners?Yet they scream in oposition as loud as they can-as if that is going to get them a better seat in heaven.Gays must be something awfully special if they can have such an effect on your trip to the afterlife.
What is wrong with this picture?You see a man and a man in a gay relationship or a woman and a woman.It does'nt take long to see that one takes the role of a man ,the other a woman,in both cases.The sad thing about that is they are as confused as a bi-sexual at an orgy.
Whatever. You can't even prove your god exists, or ANY god for that matter. Get over yourself -- pretending to know the thoughts and motivations and feelings of the god-who-created-the-universe, without even being able to prove such a creature exists, shows that you are only acting on pure hatred. Grow up!
Even if that was true, which it isn't, what do you care? How does it affect your life? You don't have to sit in their bedroom and watch, so why sit around and create the fantasy in your head and keep talking about it? It doesn't concern you and it won't affect you. So, get over it! Nobody sits in your bedroom to watch, either, so nobody cares what you do! - though I imagine that's a part of your fantasy as well.
Frogmorton, are you a homosexual? Your comments seem to be as aggressive toward this being OK as the people who are against it are. Homosexuality is a crime against nature even if you take religion out of it. This devient life should not be encouraged or approved of in way even behind closed doors. Marriage is God's way for a man and a woman to be committed to each other and to come together and create other human being so that humanity continues. I do not believe that two homosexual men or women can come together and procreate anything. The whole idea is disgusting to think about much less to write about.
GOD created marriage and MAN has no BUSINESS messing with his penis up someones BUTT and calling it MARRIAGE! I am not homophobic!!! I do NOT care what ANYONE does with their genitalia or to WHOM! Keep it to yourself, and WE will keep our bedroom sacred! The Government - not DICTARSHIP, the government has NO BUSINESS pretending it is anything Religious, Good and Right for it is about as BLACK, UpsideDOWN and EVIL as I have EVER collectively KNOWN a government can get except for THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES!!! We are slipping in PURIFICATION, By PUTRID, EGotistical, Drama-Queens! Get you NOSE OUT of GOOD People's Business and keep ruining the world !
It is not hate, or intolerance - it is MESSING WITH THINGS on a SACRED Level - I know MAN as banalized everything sacred, and this is just another RUNG (not BUNG HOLE) down the ladder!
Very well done, Roberta. At first I thought you were just some crazed whacko but in the end decided that you are actually highly skilled at impersonating a raving lunatic. Bravo. I can learn from you.
Make yourself a nice cup of tea, dear. Get a cool, damp cloth for your head. Lock yourself in your room, turn out the lights, and think of Baby Jesus. He won't let the bad gay men with their nasty penises and bungholes get you.
If your "God" created marriage (Prove it), then marriage being recognized by the Federal and State Governments of the United States is illegal (1st amendment, completely goes against the Declaration of Independence, too), and must be stricken down, allowing Civil Unions to be the only recognized form of wedlock in this country. It's too bad though, because you (and those of your faith) are single-handedly going to ruin it for everyone in this country.
The more you people try to force the biblical definition of marriage, the more easy this case will be to win, when it is eventually filed against the US Government.
I am highly evolved, and have spent much time researching, reading, and like the ancient philosophers, World Peace, enharmonic living is the ultimate reality on this planet - and it is only the children asleep which stymy forward progress into one World of Love for without a body, that is all there is anyway. When you have nasty leaders, reality takes a nasty bent. And vice verse, good leaders, and the reality will reflect more peaceful co-habitation on the planet. Like little people in a sandbox, that is our world. You either are pro- or anti and feeding the ego, only puts the spirit further and further locked in a dark closet. Open that closet, let the spirit of each person shine, we will have heaven on Earth. And in the meantime - it is NOT HARD TO SEE what is Egobent, and what is of a higher nature. And as I said before : it is better to do away completely with the SACREDNESS of marriage, to debase to man's ideal. Ban it all together, before allowing people who can not even have sexual intercourse in the NATURAL design of the human experience. But Man is so much more WISER than God, and he KNOWS exactly how everything should go down in a Hugh Heffner world.
Roberta,
You are a freaker and you need help. I hope you are kidding, and I hope that you do not have children. Grow up and realize that the book that you covet is a fictional book written by men for men.
@Roberta: You can spout all the religious mumbo-jumbo you like, it still doesn't prove your 'God' created marriage, nor does it refute the fact that Marriage, as it's currently being forced in the United States, is a violation of our laws. 'Our' being the keyword. Not everyone believes in the same faith, whether you're Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist, etc... they all have differences in their belief structure. As such, and very wisely, the founding father's believed no one religion should be recognized, as it infringes upon the rights of those who don't believe the same thing.
You don't have to like it, but you will tolerate it. Or, as is the case here, you'll force your religious ideology to the point where the Government will be forced to strip marriage and all the benefits that go with it, from recognition. I'd love it if we could all just get along, and live our lives without having to try and control what everyone else does (No one forces you to marry someone of your own sex, however, you're more than happy to force those people apart...or try, and then deny them the rights associated with a married couple), but failing that, I would love to see Marriage stripped from recognition and then the anger at that focused entirely at people like yourself.
I have never read that 'book' believe it or not, for I do not need a book to guide me. I have been in a meditation group for the past 25 years, the same group which is over 40 years old. I know what dignity is, class, respect, honor and integrity - for I live them. I am not a hypocrite, and I am awake. When you can say these things, then you should be in a place of power in order to govern an enharmonic existence between all peoples. I just recently joined a Lutheran Church, for they sing their masses, and all life is energy - and tonals are ancient communications, sang with the heart, in accordance with the mind, are transcendental....but you wouldn't know anything about that, would you>?
@Roberta: Yes, you are a hypocrite by using words such as dignity, respect, and class...while being more than happy to deny those around you their right to happiness. They don't affect you in any way, marriage being defined in biblical terms doesn't force an end to their relationship. It's still happening, like it or not.
I don't care what Church you joined, I don't care who you marry, I don't care what meditation groups you partake in. They aren't my business, or my concern. My concern is that every American citizen is treated equally, and with this respect you seem so bent on denying them.
Or you could just say I have no problem with gay people, I just don't want them living next door. Bigotry is bigotry.
Another perfect example of what the FECE's are about. Fanatical Evangelical Christian Extremist.
Woow and I thought I was crazy.
LOL. Compared to what...a housefly?
Please -- keep your posts comin, hon. Your comments make me LMAO!
If you're so hell bent on "Sacredness" of marriage, then why aren't you all fighting to outlaw divorce? Seems it's only sacred when it comes to denying individuals their constitutional rights.
Hmmmmmm..... I must reflect on this more.
Take your fairytales elsewhere and adjust your tin foil hat. Your religions beliefs have no place in legal rulings.
And Legal rulings have no place in the Church! And keep your archaic once cute, handslaps to yourself, no one called you an idiot, you are asleep - not stupid, and not insane - just asleep.
We are not telling your freaky religion to provide same sex ceremonies, so what does this have to do with religion.
Precisely - this has nothing to do with religion - but LAWS. We do not need Laws to tell who can join with whom,....THAT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE! So why the laws??? Every new law, we loose more FREEDOMS< and need to Legalize every action or activity or it is illegal. We did not need laws for blacks to marry whites.. And we do not need laws for men to marry animals....and we do not need laws for men to marry women - these are NOT LAWS which are needed!!! This a horrible abomination of Government Power and they have crossed the line into telling US WHAT WE CAN AND CANNOT DO!by law - and it is not THEIR right!
However, we are a nation of laws. And as such we need to insure that those laws treat everybody equally and fairly. For, without laws we would be a bunch of tribes trying to impose our views on all the other tribes (surely your books and meditations taught you that)? And even in your case, the laws protect your rights to speech (otherwise you would have been locked up long ago) as being a complete lunatic, or a lunatic impersonator as the case may be. On the other-hand if you believe that we don't need laws to do what we want, what in the name of God are you belly-aching about?
Roberta K Starkey
"Precisely - this has nothing to do with religion - but LAWS. We do not need Laws to tell who can join with whom,....THAT IS A PERSONAL CHOICE! So why the laws?"
Which is PRECISELY the point.
These churches are passing the hat in order to create laws that will bind everyone to their way of thinking.
You are arguing for the freedom to worship as you choose and to hold whatever beliefs that entails on one hand AND for the right to impose your religious beliefs on others on the other.
Do you not see how these two arguments are in direct conflict?
How does giving gays the legal right to marry limit any of your or your churches freedoms?
Your church does not have to like gay marriage. Your church does not have to knowingly admit gays as members. Your church does not have to marry same sex-couples. Your church is still free to preach that homosexuality is a sin. Not one of those things will change.
But you cross the line when you attempt to legally prohibit gays from getting married because you are then are attempting to force your religious views on others.
How is it that this concept is so difficult to understand?
Roberta, you do seem pretty worked up about...well, something. I hope you find something in your life to give you some peace. No one has said you have to do anything about any topic you mentioned, so hopefully you can relax a bit and sleep well tonight.
I wouldn't have thought that these Christian hate groups would have gotten up into Maine.
Hell, they've found their way into China. Maine was easy.
Lobbying with the collection plate money. This is a good one. Why isn't the IRS halting their Tax Exempt status? These people need to leave the gays alone and concentrate on having a more Christian like attitude. Today it is the gays the are bashing and persecuting. Tomorrow,it will be someone else.
If you are not an active member of a church, which obviously NONE OF YOU ARE!!! YOU have no clue of the inate, spiritual reality within you or others....more and more people do, but they are also the Humble, and they do not speak up for they have been told to remain clean and let the world be dirty. So, when the dirty world wants to come into a clean church, I for ONE not only will stand up, my mouth is wide open for all the good people on this planet. Hugh Heffners wet daydream is not a holy experience on this Earth. But if you NEED it in order to undertand just how much pain and despair a human can grovel in and for how long, day after day, year after year, until another WHOLE lifetime is wasted in sexual IMBALANCE of frenetically just getting off....and now you want to imprison one another to yourself - IS JUST LAUGHABLE, really! For people with out a foundation of SACREDNESS can not stay married - so you are all just feeding the judicial system of D I V O R C E!!!
Create your HOMOSEXDUAL Churches already - do what ever you want - but don't hook on to our train - create your own - and keep GOVERNMENT out of it!
You need to check your own ego there, Roberta. You seem quite captive to your own delusion.
1) You don't own Christianity
2) You don't own Creation or the proper way to believe anything about anything...and you definitely need to understand that these churches are attempting to use government to push their own egoistic beliefs.
3) I appreciate your enthusiasm, but loathe your zealotry...it is leading you astray.
Suval-3946679,
A MORE Christian attitude??? Do you really want them to start murdering gays?
With all the vile hatred and condemnation spouted by many of today's religious leaders, I was just wondering, what ever happened to all the love thy neighbor, cast no stone in anger people ?
Ellis Baumgarner
Oh those bits...Easy to overlook a few benign lines in a texts dominated by brutality, genocide, rape, child sacrifice, and intolerance. Besides a church needs enemies and fear to justify it's existence and somehow gays are an easier target then consumers of shellfish.
Let us be grateful that religion is slowly losing it's blood dripping grip--things used to be far worse.
Swal - where is your compassion for others?
Do you not know that if they do not testify against such an unholy practice, they then become accessories to it?
Do you not know that if they do not give the message that this is wrong, then the persons would probably even have a clue that what they are doing and understand that the reward is short and the long term price is being lost forever?
The woman is a bowl of crazy!
Roberta, you might want to read those chapters about humility and you know...treating others with kindness. Wow...I'm glad I don't go to your church if everyone there is as Christian...not...as you are.
Guess you don't realize you have missed the whole point of the whole, "treat others..." thing, and maybe a lot more, right?
And you know, you might want to get some therapy for that sex obsession you seem to have. Oh, and judging others and assuming you know about anyone else's spiritual lives isn't really going to help you find peace....you don't sound very peaceful and you seem to be really worried about what others do in the bedroom.
Wow hon...are you so whacked-out that you forgot what you said to us all earlier? That you have never read "that book" and, instead, you've been part of a meditation group for over 25 years?? Roberta, have you been smoking some weed or somethin?
Your jesus-myth (in the NT) prohibits divorce THREE TIMES at least. So, where's all your protests to ban that? Where is all your testifying to avoid being an accessory to the 50% divorce rate in this country, highest among the religious? Are you aware how hypocritical you all are to the words of your jesus-myth? Is it because you are too cowardly to live your values every day and actually go after something that might make the lives of many christians inconvenient, including your own?
That last line, "...a loving God" kills me. I just found this out about your loving God: in the Bible your god killed at least 2 million people, closer to 3 million, and that's not including those he wiped out in a devastating display of genocide in the Noah's Ark fairytale.
Satan, on the other hand, clocks in with about 7 little people, and that was due to a bet he made with your god. Yeah, he's a sweetheart, this guy.
Energy is real....your intent and your motivation. Good for you to be able to discern the difference. It is a step in the right direction. What you feed, your energy, will be your future, your reality. Decided what you want out of life, and keep your energies clean.,...or dirty if you want a debased existence - it is all your choice.
Joe,
if you created something that didn't do what you wanted it to, or even caused harm to you. Do you not have every right to dispose of it in any way you chose?
BTW the ark is on Ararat and was visited, again, in 2010. It is about as eerie to look at as the wreck of the Titanic, except you see very old hewn wood, with much of it coated with the clearest ice you would ever see.
The last Russian Czar sent an expedition to Ararat to document a large object on Ararat. When the Russian Military attachment returned to Russia, the Czar had been executed and their report confiscated and assumed destroyed.
There were plenty of sighting of a large box sticking out of the glacier by WW II pilots. And a many reports of people visiting it during the middle ages.
And Joe. Job said, though he slay me, yet I will trust him. Was he talking about himself or the coming Messiah?
God is calling you
Well, if you are an all-knowing god -- which your BuyBull god is said to be -- then why the hell would you create something already knowing full well you'll kill all your children later? Why call yourself an all-knowing god, the beginning and ending, all time, and all loving, if you just create people only to mass-murder them later, which you already KNOW you will do?
How STUPID is that logic? Do you just read that goddam cult book, or do you actually THINK about everything it says and claims?
Try some critical thinking sometime, punkin.
Roberta, Yes energy IS real but YOU have NO CLUE what it is. Just try to define it, you will see what I mean.
I personally disagree with bringing the "rights of children" in to this debate. It seems to me that the rights of actual people should hold more sway than the perceived rights of children who are not even born yet.
Good for the State of Maine. I live in Portland, Oregon and we would never allow Gay marriage in our state. Eventually most if at all these perverted gay rights will be repealed at some point and America can get back to having strong morals. It takes some time but eventually people realize that homosexuality is a perversion and they just don't tolerate the fooliness.
Next it can be the Mormons, then the Jews, then Laotian boat people, then the Irish Catholics, then...
I have heard this bigotry before.
As foolish as that hat you have on, Donald...?
I'm afraid not, any infringement upon the rights of any people in the US, is illegal. Additionally, any religious institution being recognized by the US Government is also illegal. Therefore, what will eventually happen is Marriage will be stripped from America. And you folks, hellbent on forcing a biblical definition of marriage, are only making the case that much easier to win.
@B Murphy,
No, America is waking up and coming to the conclusion that homosexuality is really a perversion. I wish every person would come out the closet so I can stay far away from them as possible. The majority of Americans don't support gay marriage, given that like everytime it's put up for vote they vote too the people they vote it down. I think homosexuals will have a better chance with civil unions rather marriage because homosexuality is a perversion and should be separated from the norm.
B Murphy- exactly what "Right" of yours is being infringed upon? The right to marry? Marriage is not a right.
Donald,
This should not be a vote and you know it. This is a civil rights issue, remember. You know if this country would have left the right for you to vote, up to the people you would still be in the back of the bus. THink about that.
@Onermailliw: No right of mine is currently being infringed upon, I'm neither married, nor interested in becoming married anytime soon. However, the rights of my fellow American's are being infringed upon by interfering with the freedom of marriage. Which has been supported by the courts, when they struck down mixed colored marriage bans in the 60's.
If Marriage isn't a right, then it never should have been brought before the courts, and it never should have been given any special consideration or law made on it's behalf in the constitution. The Constitution is for everyone, not just a select group of people.
You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but the more you force the biblical definition of marriage, the easier you make a suit against the Federal Government, for violating the 1st Amendment.
Everyone has the ability to be male or female - infact that 'trigger' capability is in every one of your cells. At the 3rd month of gestation - your soul decides what form to take on this life - male or female - and you know what???? ONLY MAN WOULD BE SO DUMB TO THINK HE KNOWS BETTER THAN YOUR SPIRIT!
Only Roberta would be foolish enough to subject us to this mindless drivel.
There is not a problem with most gay peoples morals. I'd be willing to bet they have more morals than you and your religious counterparts.
Donald Price,
Most ppl whom trash talk gays have their own sexual identity problems. Perhaps you should be honest with yourself--you sound gay to me.
@robiscoole
Why do people try to compare race to homosexuality? I guess I missed the connection Race is not a choice, Homosexuality is a choice based upon environmental factors. BIG DIFFERENCE!! I believe gay rights should be voted upon because homosexuality is a choice. It is more likely for a human being to be born with schizophrenia than being born homosexual. It is completely ok to discriminate on someone based upon their choices, that is why society creates laws and social-constructs. Homosexuality is better compared with Pedophilia rather than Heterosexuality because they have both have members whom practice unorthodox sexual behavior and claim they were born to do it. I treat Pedophiles the same as I do Homosexuals, I RESPECTFULLY DECLINE!!
@kategus,
I highly doubt it. Gays morals are just as low if not lower than Pedophiles morals. They let their perversion control them instead of controlling their perversion.
@Fuel
I am not gay, I enjoy natural sex with a natural female but I've found out in the forums whenever someone is opposed to homosexuality somehow the left tries to link them into the lifestyle. I enjoy natural sex with a natural female.
DP
Your ignorance makes me sad. If you cannot see the difference between consenting adults being together and a pedophile preying on children then we cannot have a conversation. If you are not gay how do you know that it is a choice. Care to offer any evidence to this theory. There is something to be said about homophobes being scared of their own feelings. You should probably look into it.
Bye the way what the @!$%# is natural sex.
@robiscoole,
I see no difference between a consenting homosexual and a consenting pedophile who has sex with a consenting child because they both are disgusting perverted sexual acts and both claim they are born too commit the sexual acts.
I don't need to be gay to know homosexuality is a choice. It's called RESEARCH!! The entire human genome was mapped and no gay gene was found. There is nothing gay in the X or the Y chromosome. homosexuality is not an hereditary trait, Sexual reproductive organs were created for the opposite sex, etc... Do I need to go further? I'm sure you will try to twist the facts to suit your lifestyle but the truth is the truth.. A Penis was created for a Vagina.
I am sure that I would try to take you seriously if it was not for those rediculous shades in a pic that is obviously inside.
You are a homophobe though, and this does stem from the fear that if someone around you is gay they might make you gay. This makes you insecure about your own sexuality. I know this from REASEARCH. Have a good day.
@robiscoole
No, I believe a penis was created for a vagina if that makes me a homophobe in your book then so be it. Have a good day
DonaldPrice,
((May I abbreviate that to DP? JK!)) At what point in your life did YOU choose to be 'straight'? I didn't choose my sexuality any more than I selected the color of my eyes--so it's very hard for me to understand how ANYONE can make that choice unless they have a far less predetermined sexual orientation than I had.
I gotta suspect your "RESEARCH" was more of a confirmation bias search because all the credible (ie. non-political/non-religious based) input I have suggests that only the few whom have bi-tendencies or week innate sexual orientation actually HAVE a choice.
DP--
I wish every person would come out the closet so I can stay far away from them as possible.
This statement is what makes you a homophobe.
Hmmm, maybe we should go back to the "back of the bus" days and see how it feels for some folks NOW. You can bet your sweet a$$ that there would be hell to pay. Equal Rights for EVERYONE!
We will not go BACKWARDS
Obama/Biden 2012 FORWARD
Wow, Donald. Your life must be really limited and I hope someday you do some real research. How sad for you.
So Donald, you claim that being gay is a "choice".
So is what religion you belong to.
Does that make it OK to discriminate against Jews? Or Muslims? How about Catholics? Maybe Mormons?
I know you're aware that at one time in our nations history that signs that said WHITES ONLY were not uncommon. Apparently you're not as aware that at that same time that there were also signs that said NO CATHOLICS NEED APPLY and NO JEWS ALLOWED.
Do you actually know any gay people? I'm certain that you do, although it's very possible that you may not be aware of it. I've come to know a lot of gay people in my life and for the most part I had absolutely no idea they were gay until long after I had met them, in some cases years. And do you know what I've found? They're people. Some good. Some bad. Just like everyone else.
What I find most troubling with your views is that you seem some comfortable in judging someone based on a label that someone has attached to them instead of who they really are. I encountered a lot of that kind of thinking when I was growing up in the 60's even in my own family.
Would you care to guess who it was being applied to then?
Really? Religious Preference is a choice, but it is Constitutionally Protected. So, your argument there is an EPIC FAIL. Since one choice (religious preference) is Constitutionally protected, your argument that a choice cannot be constitutionally protected is: FAIL
Thanks for stopping by, DP...
Never thought I'd see so many churches acting un-Christian. Isn't one of the main morales of Christianity to live and let live?
What? it is un-christian not to be PASSIVE, bend over , and take it? How dare these supposedly 'christians' to take issue with what the LAW wants!
@Roberta: Isn't that exactly what the Priests of your faith tell little children to do?
Roberta,please take your meds next time you decide to troll on newsvine.
Cmon, roberta's a hoot. She makes me laugh. She shows us what christian republicans are all about.
And you make me sad. To all those on this commentary who disagree with these homosexuals that seem to make up the majority of it, you must leave this as I am doing. You cannot argue with a people whom God has turned over to a reprobate mind. I will only say that I am glad that the churches are findly coming together to fight against the immorality that is destroying America. I do not however understand why the catholic churches are not joining with them. I also say as for taxes Jesus said render unto Caesar what is Cesare's meaning that you should pay taxes, then you take away one more thing they cannot throw in your face.
meanwhile a child goes hungry and homeless. Seems the money could be better spent than practices bigotry.
two points here:
1. The exemption status only applies to supporting a particular candidate for office, not an issue in this case. Given the propensity of so many here to want to yank tax exempt status based on this, it only lend creedence to an argument of mine that this is the ultimate goal of the Gay marriage agenda: pass gay marriage, and then sue the church and strip it of it's status when they refuse to perform ceremony or service to a gay couple.
2. I live in Maine. voters have struck down referendums for gay marriage several times... the last time being when we overturned by vote a back door (no pun intended) bill passed by the previous democrat governor and legislature to legalize gay marriage in the state without the people voting on it. However, it is back on the ballot again this year.. How many times must we say "no"?
One point,
Civil rights of the minority will never be approved by the majority and that is why it is a joke to let the people vote on it. Should have we been ok with most of the south making it illegal for blacks and whites the have an interracial marriage. This is about bigotry and you are a leader for the cause.
I would agree with you on #2 if you had "won" maybe 90% to 10%. But no. Those who voted yes on 1 only "won" by 53% to 47%. I think we will have a different outcome (one a bit more positive) this November! The toad(LePage) that's in the governors office now won by more than that!
Another Light shines in the darkness!!!
robiscole;
If your point was true, then we'd still have segregation.
For the record, before you keep on calling me a bigot, I've got no problem setting up a civil union clause to give them the full rights now extended to married couples in the eyes of the govt... just don't call it marriage. They want to define it as marriage because of my 1st point: the ability to enact legal action against the church.
They did not leave it up to the people lucas the SCOTUS had to rule on it. That is my point and it is very true. The south would still not allow it. Jim Crow laws anyone.
Why not call it Marriage? Marriage as to law has nothing to do with religion. You can get married at the courthouse and not go to a church, but you cannot get married at the church without having to go to the courthouse.
You know as well as I do that churches already get to decide who they let get married in their church, This would not change.
so why not define it as a "civil union law", and forgoe the "marriage" designation for this matter?.. would that be acceptable?
Was it "acceptable" to the blacks when they wanted their equal rights?
Drug addicts are people,too
Of course not. Marriages happen all the time, outside of churches, with no cult gods ever being invoked. Judges marry people, so do ship captains, so do elvis impersonators...and on and on...without your jesus-myth ever being involved.
Your goddam cult doesn't own the word marriage, no cult does. Get over it.
Roberta--SOOoo sad you have been TOTALLY BLINDED by that light. But it feels good for awhile huh--like heroin.
THey are not taking up a collection to help people, but the hurt people. This is religion at it's worst.
I'm not going to stand on one side or the other of this. Just wanted to clarify the IRS issue. As the article states,
I'm not saying you have to like it but for now it is the law and they are within their rights.
We also need to get Rid of the IRS, period. And it can be done - think outside the box, instead of just allowing Authority to not only now control 'social mores and right behavior' but to create more and more laws which take away everyone's freedom. Which is the real issue at hand....IT IS NOT THEIR BUSINESS, and a horrible abuse of power. And there is no riding the fence anymore. You have to figure who you are, and this is a good thing.
OK, so now it's not just imposing your warped sense of righteousness on everybody else, you want to eliminate government completely (by definition getting rid of the IRS would eliminate government). Now we have something like Iran or Afghanistan. Look how well that's working out. We need to get the money out of government (that is the paying off of congress etal). And we also need to get back to the founding fathers idea of separation of Church and State.
If churches want to use religion to sway the vote then churches need to pay property tax. If I recall Jesus was a humble man that had no worldly possessions. However, the church seems to love property. The separation of church and state should hold true...so once a church starts to interfere with politics they no longer are an un-taxed organization. I believe that no one has the right to interfere with someone's happiness and besides marriage has become financial loop-hole anyway.
Are they really serious? Wow... Christ-like, I don't think so... so these sheep think that Christ would have done this?
Sounds like another holy roller collection that will go mostly into someone's pocket... people need to get a bit more intelligent and think what is right and what is wrong... who is this hurting? woman-woman and man-man cannot procreate so what is the harm?
It is a spiritual joining of energies - a marriage - not just the sexual, but mind and body of 2 people. It is not first, even a 'church' thing for there were no churches at one time. The church was erected to govern the peoples' social and ethical mores to ensure harmony on Earth until they get back to heaven. And then rulers took over the church, but they couldn't rule the people so - thru the church , ruled the people. Truly, we need no churches, we need no laws, and we need no government, when everyone wakes up and realizes their power of energy, of soul of spirit. What you focus on in life, is your reality. You want a good life, figure out what 'good ' is, and don't feed anti-good and you're good to go. Karma is real. We do not NEED Laws for Gay people to marry and No Government has the authority to make it legal. If they can do this, then YOU Do Not Own yourself anymore. They didn't make a law saying a man can marry a woman, did they? So if they make a law saying 2 men can marry each other, they better make a law that says a man and a woman can get married, or else it is ILLEGAL - for it hasn't been MADE A LAW!
Roberta, you keep talking about energy and karma and all kinds of things that by what you say you show you seem to know little about. Funny how I do really get the part where you mention that we have power of soul, spirit, and energy, and you would come across as a wonderful, loving, peaceful person if you dropped some of all the other stuff that makes your spiritual comments get lost in the other...stuff...you post. What difference does it make to you if there are laws? No one is perfect, and laws do help humans live together a bit more peacefully.
When in the hell are Christian churches of any stripe going stay out of politics? Whether liberal or conservative, they assume that God is on their side regardless of the issue. If they spent half as much time living into the teachings of Christ as they do using the Bible as their pile driver the World would be in a much better place.
And when the HELL is Politics going to stay out of the Religion???
Roberta, you sound like, "I know you are but what am I?"
I just put her on Ignore. It's making it much easier to read the saner posts.
@Terelyn: AMEN! LOL
Terelyn-sane posts-you found some?Check out her FB page-the woman is a nut.
Roberta, When religion get's out of politics then politics can get out of religion--one in the same really. That's why T. Jefferson was so adamant about separation of church and state. But by offering special tax exempt status to certain religions government sanctions and violates the constitution.
All religions are a construct of man. Why do you suppose that the Hindus believe what they believe? or the Buddhists or the Jews or the natives of New Guinea? Christians rationalize their existance by saying only Christians are the "chosen" ones and will be the only ones that get into heaven. Everybody else of the other religions are heathens and their souls will rot in hell. Marriage is a construct of religion as a way of controlling who gets to sleep with who and therefore also a construct of man. The laws can be changed.
Christians are staying clean to their faith, as all people of faiths stay true....they also are accepting and allowing of others beliefs and faiths, knowing for as many people on Earth, there are as many Gods shining (or trying to) shine thru. We all have God within us - not some little man up in the sky. Our spirit, our energy - when it leaves the body - it ceases to work and expires....and like mercury - our spirit goes back home, from where it came - it connects without the bifurcation of the mind - for really - we are not separate from God - that is only an illusion which the mind thinks it is all alone, stuck in this body. We are all waking up to the power within - And understanding the Government and Authority need to take a flying leap if they are murdering, killing, enslaving, torturing people.
You are either Tea Party or about to join them
TAKE ALL TAX INCENTIVES AWAY FROM ALL so called religions.... They do nor deserve them. THE CHURCHES ARE GETTING INVOLVED IN POLITICS....
Oh Really?! Gee, are the Catholic priests staying clean to their faith? I won't even go into the other ones. Get a clue.
I have never put anyone on ignore, but Roberta..wow. Staying clean? I can't type long enough to respond to that...lol.
Really? How much do you think will go into the church leaders pockets? Religion is such a scam. Tax every single church. Pick Pockets who do with your OK. Scam artist dream: become a preacher or pastor.
I thought god was supposed to love everyone and forgive everyone's sins. Love thy neighbor, and all? Yet now we see churches and other institutions collecting money to push an agenda of hatred and intolerance for others who are different.
The funny thing is, what 2 people do in their bedroom or whoever they marry affects no one. I could care less if you marry an Asian, an Indian, a prostitute, a lawyer, or a gold-digger, nor do I care if you have vanilla sex or raunchy, naughty sex. It's none of my business nor anyone else's what you do in your private life, but yours and the other consenting party in the relationship.
So much for tolerance and love for each other! If the churches made as much of an effort to push an agenda of caring and love by collecting money for the homeless, for example, we'd see a lot less people starving and sleeping on the streets.
Hot-in-Miami
Those are tiny drops in a sea of blood and hell, to be used as initial bait--the hatred and fear of others with slightly different beliefs brings in the money. The bible mainly demands atrocities but there is enough contradictory lines to satisfy any selective simpleton.