In my mind, organized religion is always suspect. At it's best it can be a powerful force for good and for support of the needy. At it's worst, it is just a way to coerce others to follow whatever rules the religious leaders decide is right and you can't argue because "God said it is supposed to be this way".

I have little issue with someone having a quiet faith in God. It's when you build a church and choose a human as a leader that you start to have problems. Westboro Baptist comes to mind ...

All religons come to mind..

hate and/or discriminatory sentiment is not a parallel to something that is inclusionary in its principle. That being said, it could be argued this shirt is POLITICAL or RELIGIOUS, but if kids can wear crosses that pronounce their faith, or have a GOP pin on their bag, this should be allowed as well.

Props to this kid regardless. He fought for what he thought was right and didn't bow down to the "powers" that be

Deacon,

The message that this brave boy is giving is one of tolerance and respect for others. The message you propose is one of hatred, and should be banned under Federal statutes against hate crimes.

SingBiker - WOW it's now a crime to say you hate something or some person!? Where's the tolerance? Where the free expression?

Since Jesus is not afraid of demons, why would He be afraid of homosexuals? I doubt Jesus is any kind of "ophobe."

So, are all the other students allowed to wear a shirt saying "Sodomy is a sin in the eyes of God"?

The first amendment guarantee applies to all speech. Not just the speech of which you approve. That having been said, when someone wears an anti gay shirt to school let's be tolerent of that as well and support their right to freedom of speech. Otherwise one could be one considered sided.

bloggit: you know that aint going to happen, not in this pc country!!

Singbiker . . . .

Shunning a person is NOT saying that you hate that person .

Perhaps you should check the meanings of words before you try to twist things around to make it sound like someone is saying something they are not saying !!!!

I said "Shun All Homo's", I did NOT say "Hate All Homo's" !

Got It . . . .

People making comments that Jesus considers Homosexuality a sin need to realize that neither the Ten Commandments or any words of Jesus reported in the Gospels state that homosexuality is a sin.

You can say there are a few condemnations of homosexual behavior in the Bible, but be aware greed, dishonesty, accummulation of wealth, and divorce are condemned far more often than homosexuality.

"I was shunned untill the age of 6, for not saving the oil from a can of tuna fish"

-Dwight Schrute

Nursing Guy, or anybody for that matter, please tell me where exactly Jesus clearly considers homosexuality a sin in God's eyes!

@Deacon-960127 and Tom-631064

I believe the answer to your shirt questions would probably be yes, the school would have to allow kids to wear those shirts. The Supreme Court ruled in favor of Westboro Bapist Church's hate speech case (the one about them protesting at some military funeral and then the family sued them). I think the only way the school could get around this is if it caused any kind of endangerment to student safety.

@MDB123

With the way some people talk you'd think that mob rule does run this country. Gosh, some many people think that our senators and reps are always suppose to bow to the majority but that isn't even true. Our government was set-up so that when the majority is wronging the minority, the minority has a fighting chance. I always feel sick when I read what I'd call "stupid" or maybe a better word would be arrogant comments.

Jesus may not be a homophobe, but the Bible clearly indicates he considers homosexuality a sin in His eyes.

Exactly where does the bible cite jeebus position on homosexuality?

For those of you asking if this ruling works both ways, it does. Look at Westboro Baptist Church for example.

The first amendment guarantee applies to all speech. Not just the speech of which you approve. That having been said, when someone wears an anti gay shirt to school let's be tolerent of that as well and support their right to freedom of speech. Otherwise one could be one considered sided.

Hate speech is not the same as a message showing support for any group. A "God loves Christians" shirt would be an example of a parallel message.

Hate speech is not protected by the First Amendment as it is damaging and interrupts the ability of others to go about their days. Saying you are offended by the religious or personal beliefs of others that make no attack of your faith isn't a valid argument, either. Further, the implications of wearing hate messages is that it is not making a statement in support of your beliefs, but essentially trouncing upon the rights of others to freely express their convictions.

This kid is truly awesome...I wish him great success in life!

Ok... Deacon LOVES Gays, NursingGuy thinks Gays are too pushy, WCF1957 hasn't noticed that anti-gay t-shirts have been ok in school for a long time now. Bloggit: to wear a tshirt that says "Sodomy is a sin in the eyes of God", the Sodomy is the sexual part. They couldn't wear that, but they could wear a shirt that says "LGBT is a sin in the eyes of God".

Can you direct me to a few verses that clearly state that homosexuality is a sin. I'll admit that I'm not a Bible scholar in any way shape or form, but I'd be willing to bet for every one verse denouncing homosexuality, there are several that espouse tolerance. This is really just a guess. Go ahead and prove me wrong. NursingGay.

For those of you asking if this ruling works both ways, it does. Look at Westboro Baptist Church for example.

Not exactly. As a matter of fact, the WBC is a prime example of the limitations on the First Amendment. Their activities have been banned or heavily restricted in numerous municipalities and even entire nations because it has been successfully argued that their speech is disruptive and even damaging to others.

The WBC is actually a good thing in that sense...we are finally pondering the limits of how far this nation will go in allowing harm to fall upon minorities in the effort to protect uninhibited freedom of speech. We must always remember that the liberty defended is that to peaceably assemble, not create turmoil.

Do you guys honestly need the difference spelled out for you between wearing a shirt that promotes heterosexuality and one that demonizes homosexuality? Seriously?

Sadly, I do believe the First Amendment goes both ways (like RM205 above says concerning the Westboro Baptist Church), but if you're going to be a bigot at least admit it. Don't try to hide your motives; that's just cowardly. As the first sentence in my post suggests - it's pretty obvious what the difference is.

kent mcmillian,

"Keep in mind that district Court judge Michael Barrett was appointed by George W. Bush."

Just what the hell has this got to do with the article? Would it be better if he were appointed by obama? Can't you one track minded people (obama included since after almost four years in office HE still blames Bush) to yourselves?!!! You sound just like that political parrot who heads up homeland security.

Dustin-265,

You do know that WBC has about 100 members and approximately 80% of those are one family? Shows you the limits of the human mind also.

So, are all the other students allowed to wear a shirt saying "Sodomy is a sin in the eyes of God"?

Considering the fact that high school boys are more than willing to use any hole a female student offers... and sodomy is NOT same-sex exclusive... I doubt many would want to wear that shirt. It contradicts the main goal of every high school boy.

That is basically an anti-BJ shirt... which will turn you into the laughing-stock of the school.

Sing biker

"tolerance and respect for others"

and by that you mean to tolerate and respect those with the same opinion or mindset as you?

I believe that is the liberal way.

Deacon...shun all Homo's what? Clothes? Cars? Beliefs? Shun what?

School uniforms. Should have been done already.

To Pablo-123 who wrote

Exactly where does the bible cite jeebus position on homosexuality?

In response to NursingGuy who wrote

Jesus may not be a homophobe, but the Bible clearly indicates he considers homosexuality a sin in His eyes.

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22) Some other places to look include: Genesis 19:5, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17, Isaiah 3:9, Romans 1:27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, Jude 1:7

Just because you do not condone the act, does not mean you hate the person. Eternal judgment and the decision as to which sins will, or will not, be forgiven belongs only to our Father in heaven. As for us there is no choice unless we want our own sins to unforgivable.

Start from the beginning where in Geneesis God created Man and woman and commanded them to go out a be fruitul and replenish the earth.

Then go to Genesis 19...and read about how God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah because of their great sin on Homosexuality...thus that is where the term Sodomy comes from.

I can go on but you need to search the scriptures yourself for in them you will find life and salvation.

Wow, I was not aware that jeebus was alive during genesis.

I must have bad copy of the bible.

I must have missed those quotes from jeebus about homosexuality being bad in that part of the bible.

Can you refresh my memory?

You go, Maverick! Good for you & your mom in not backing down.

And to the ones above who hide their bigotry and fear behind the Bible, until the day comes that you apply ALL aspects of the Bible in a literal sense and protest Red Lobster, any kind of pork, and condemn every tattoo'd person on this planet, y'all need to just zip it.

Just like hitler twisted his beliefs and got a whole nation to hate jews you anti christians will find some way to twist scripture.

Hitler used your scripture to justify killing jews, gays, atheists and immigrants.

Hitler was christian.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people."

Adolf Hitler 5-12-1922

I have a perfect t-shirt that shouldn't upset anyone... God Loves Everyone!

Okay, where are all of the "seperation of church and state" people????

Sorry Peach, your shirt will not work. It does not mention gay rights!!

Jesus may not be a homophobe, but that doesnt change the fact that being homosexual is a sin. Jesus, like most Christians, do not hate the gay community....we hate the lifestyle. Something that no anit-christian will ever be able to understand, so I guess thats the end of the arguement right there. Cant fight something you dont understand. The pro-gay community throwing around "biggots" always makes me laugh....you are no less excepting of Christians, so how can you talk?

TXHorseman- that only applies to keeping religion out of politics, not the other way around, and homosexuality is most DEF only a political thing.....

Homophobe means uncomfortable with their actions. Not the person.

Of Course Jesus was not a homophobe. He don't care what you put in your mouth. He loves us as we are.

If the, I don't know what you call them now, really wanted to show Real Tolorance as he says he would wear a shirt that said,

" I know Jesus " Much more, much ,much more. He is trying to say something else. Right

Deacon-960127

However the fact still remains Jesus did not have a word to say on this topic.

If you are religious this is what I was taught:

I was taught to believe (by my grand parent's) that there is a personal relationship with god than supersedes church priests/pastors/rabbis/ministers and the opinions of how other interpret the bible.

For all of these things present a human block between you and your personal relationship with God.

So I say to you Deacon-960127 and others who wish to quote lines form the bible to "prove" homosexuality is a sin, I say shhhhhhhhhhh. Keep this personal between you and god. You have no authority here. Regardless if you are a minister of 40 years or a theologian with a PhD, you are human.

I use the bible as a guide not an instruction manual.

God created all beings in his image and the Bible is written by the breath of God. If you read Leviticus 18:22 then you shall see that my GOD says " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." It doesn't get any plainer than that. If you need others then read Isaiah 3:9, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:9-11, Acts 15:29-29, Romans 1:27, Deuteronomy 23:17, Jude 1:7, Levitus 20:13. Yes, I agree that everyone should have a First Ammendment right to freedom of speech. I am a Christian and it is MY right to stand up for MY GOD.

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22) Some other places to look include: Genesis 19:5, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17, Isaiah 3:9, Romans 1:27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, Jude 1:7

Still, not one direct quote from jeebus.

Oh, that's right, because jeebus didn't ever write anything. It is all just hearsay written by people who think they remembered what he might have said some 40 years after his death, that was edited and translated over thousands of years.

I guess we should accept discriminating against a certain group of people based on that remarkably reliable information.

You fundies would be funny, except that you are allowed to vote.

I hate judgmental people, and I'm not going to sugar coat it by saying I just hate their behavior. What a cop out.

beanne, you need to read your Bible a bit more carefully.

Regarding Genesis, we never said that God never intended man and woman to be together. We simply insist that God also made gay people, who are naturally attracted to mates of the same gender exclusively. Nothing is stopping straight people from marrying and replenishing the earth.

And regarding Sodom and Gomorrah: it is said several times elsewhere in the Bible that the real sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality, a violation of Jesus' rule of love of neighbor. It can't be "sodomy," since when the men of Sodom showed up at Lot's door, Lot offered them his virgin daughters. If the men were homosexual, Lot's offer would have been useless and stupid.

Dig yourself out of the fundamentalist, literalist hole you are in, and the true light of Scripture may make itself known to you.

" Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

So, if they @!$%# standing up is it ok.

I was taught to believe (by my grand parent's) that there is a personal relationship with god than supersedes church priests/pastors/rabbis/ministers and the opinions of how other interpret the bible.

That's the Holy Trinity. The intention of the New Testament was to document the life of Jesus and teach Christians to accept Jesus' sacrifice, and interpret his teachings through Jesus' story and your relationship with God directly, through the Holy Spirit, and through Jesus Christ. This is why Christians have prayer, not sacrifice.

The stories of the apostles have been regarded as the word of God however, it never should be. The apostles are merely examples of people who have accepted Christ as their savior, and utilize the Holy Trinity to maintain their faith, their relationship with God.

majkdad, in response to your post of:

1. Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

Please finish that verse. You know, the part about what you should be eating and how you shouldn't be wearing clothing made of mixed fabrics... if you've got a cotton/polyester blend on, I suggest you take it off or have society tell you how awful you are.

" Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

The original texts with literal latin translation produces something entirely different. This passage actually states that man should lie with a man as he would his wife. The reason why this was stated was because a common belief in biblical times was it was okay to have extramarital affairs, so long as it was with a member of the same sex. It never made any reference to the relations of two men being an abomination.

Further, the reference to "abomination" is actually an offense to God. God sees no sin to be more perilous than another. Murder is on par with envy in God's eyes. You can reword translations all you want, but that will never help your cause.

Another note -- the Old Testament is not God's law if you are a Christian.

All you Bible quoters: YOU GOT IT WRONG. You are using an ENGLISH TRANSLATION of the original. The fact you quoted one with the word HOMOSEXUAL in it indicates YOUR TRANSLATION IS REALLY, REALLY BADLY WRONG.

If you quote the Old Testament, you DARN WELL should be eating ONLY KOSHER or your entire argument is WRONG. Don't you DARE eat shrimp. And while you are at it, GLUTTONY is WAY WORSE THAN ANY HOMOSEXUAL ACT. If you are over a BMI of about 25 YOU ARE A SINNER.

Jeepers. I saw a video of a FAT, FAT PREACHER just SCREAMING about gays when, if you use a CORRECT TRANSLATION, HE IS THE SINNER!

I feel sorry for Happy, it must be so hard for that person to resist the urge to screw someone of the same gender. To look and be attracted to them all the time...

RealityChck:

If you eat PORK or SHELLFISH, you are subject to the same penalty, you imbecile.

Hold up. This is definitely a religious statement here.

Haven't other kids been suspended for wearing religious themed clothing?

Appeal to a " normal " court !

Sounds like Pablo likes the balogna pony.

Married father of two.

I'm just not a bibletard.

The shirt saying "Jesus is not a homophobe" doesn't and shouldn't offend anyone while shirts saying "Shun all gays", "I hate gays" or "Hitler was a homophobe" do offend and are meant to offend. But that is the 1st Amendment for yall.

Happy42xxx-

You are wrong. God creates gays. You can no more "choose" to be homosexual than you can "choose" to be straight. All the prayer in the world will not make a straight person gay or a gay person straight. Shame on anyone who would attack a person for who they are by no choice of their own. It is God's choice and his alone.

@majkdadd and Bill are you also against tatoos , stay away from horoscopes, wear clothes made of only one material,or not eat rare meat. all of these are forbbiden in Leviticus 19. In fact Leviticus 19:33,34 seem to say we should allow illegal immagration and treat them a native born. Are you in favor of this as well. There are many things in the old testament that make sense for a small group of people thousands of years ago. Doesn't mean we should still follw them

First, Maverick Couch.....that sounds like an internet pseudonym. Let that simmer in your brain till you come up with an internet mem. :D

Second, back during and before the Civil War fundamentalists and evangelicals used scripture from the Bible to justify slavery. It's in there and according to the book of Leviticus it is okay to own and beat slaves. They justified owning black people by saying that the color of their skin was the "mark of Cain".

During and before women's sufferage fundamentalists and evangelicals used scripture from the Bible to justify making women second class citizens and denying them equal rights to men, including the right to vote. Even today certain sects still use scripture to try and make all women subserviant to men. After all there are a dozen or more passages that lay out unambiguously how women are inferior to men and should be subserviant to them, even though Jesus himself made it clear that in his eyes and the eyes of Heaven all are equal.

During prohibition fundamentalists and evangelicals used scripture from the Bible to justify changing secular law to make alcohol illegal, citing verses that state the sin of drunkenness. They tried, successfully, to make lawmakers think that alcohol was at the root of criminality and that by prohibiting it crime would disappear in the country overnight. Might I note that Jesus not only drank alcohol, but his first miracle was to turn water into wine.

Notice how all three of these instances in our nation's history turned out. Contemplate the historical outcomes of the previous examples and whether or not fundamentalists and evangelicals were really pragmatically, or even morally, right in their positions. Think about the impact these positions had on the lives of countless people. Now, whether you agree with my sentiments or not, consider my next words very carefully: gay rights is next.

Pablo-123

Homosexuality is not a sexual orientation. Its a chosen behavior and a Sin. There is no proof its a condition. And that is not my opinion.

Is homosexuality an inborn condition in which people have no choice, or is it a behavior slowly reinforced over time by the choices we make and situations we expose ourselves to? The sex drive is innate. It comes from within. Thus, anything that gives us sexual gratification will produce the same innate feeling. As in the distant past, in the last hundred years there has been an explosion in the ways people explore their sexuality. Are all these various means of sexual gratification various inborn conditions, or are they merely behaviors, learned to be associated with sexual gratification over time based on the choices and experiences of individuals? I’ll pick on one particular group as an example. I’ve have heard that some people obtain sexual gratification by being peed upon.

I myself do not understand this, it simply sounds gross, or at best really silly; but some people do elicit sexual gratification in this way. The question is, were these people born this way, or is it an association learned over time by their individual experiences? With all the various means that people seem to be exploring sexual gratification, and the rapidity of their emergence over the last hundred years, it would suggest that these are all learned behaviors associated on an individual basis with sexual gratification.

Happy42xxx

Seems odd that Jesus would condemn love and commitment as a sin.

While we are on the topic of quoting the bible and laws that are a little outlandish, lets look at the New Testament: not eating beans or being a vegetarian is a sin as well. in Timothy it states it is an insult to god to refuse any of his gifts of food.

Funny how we can all quote the bible to push our own ideas (agendas?) of what is good and what is not (sinful?). For all of those who use the bible as a means of judgment, I hope you all eat your beans tonight!

Poor hate-filled rednecks who think Jesus packs a gun, loves war, helps Tebow win football games, and hates gays...you are the same type of people Jesus preached against, and you are the type of people who would crucify him again if He was dumb enough to come back to earth. Jesus hung out with prostitutes, poor people, crazy people and other folks who were scorned by regular society. He also disliked greed and money mongers, telling the rich man to go sell all that he had and give to the poor. I guarantee you losers, if there is an eternal lake of fire, you will be in it. You better hope to God that on Judgment Day you have repented. If not, you're going to burn more than any homosexual.

@ Pablo,

I think the point that was trying to be made focused on whether or not one could wear the opposite form of a T-shirt, etc and still fall under free speech.

Unfortunately, people on both sides of the argument have fallen victim by participating in a race to see who's point is actually more pointless.

Right now, it's too close to call.

The Turn Group

Your scientific reasoning is very flawed and infact science disagrees with you most grievously. Sexual drive is innately connected with the direction that desire is directed. There is proof that this is an innate ability.

We can look to nature in animals who have no contact with sexual mature individuals when born, they are innately attracted to the opposite sex, this attraction involves a genetic drive. However there are some attracted to the same sex, these animals have no real "choice" mechanism they are a product of stimulus and response. This being a genetic and biochemical driven process.

However we must take the human condition a step further, you have only talked about the sex side, what you fail to include is the love and commitment side.

The Turn Group-

Exactly when did you "choose" to be straight (sexually aroused by the opposite sex)?

Try "choosing" not to be and see how well that works.

Don't expect gays to be capable of something that you are not.

God created all beings in his image and the Bible is written by the breath of God. If you read Leviticus 18:22 then you shall see that my GOD says " Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." It doesn't get any plainer than that.

I am so glad that you Christians follow Leviticus... it's nice to see you all going back to Old Testament law. Obviously your love and commitment to our Lord is solid, and you will not waver in your support of Old Testament law.

That being said, what is the price to purchase your daughter as a slave? Leviticus allows this, and since you Christians obviously support Leviticus law, with your constant quoting of it, I can only assume you have no problem selling your daughter into slavery.

So please, let us all know how much it would cost to purchase your daughter... remember, God wants you to sell her into slavery. Leviticus tells us so.

First of all, this never should have been an issue. As a Christian, I don't think this is an offensive shirt. I wonder about the $20,000 in damages, however. What "damages?" Hurt feelings? Good luck in the future, Maverick...I suspect you'll be needing a lot of it.

I also wonder what would've happened if a kid wore a t-shirt with a fish or cross with the simple notation ROM 1:26-27 on it. Think he'd have seen the same tolerance that's expected of Christians on this shirt? I sure doubt it: To many on both the left and right, "tolerance" only applies when it involves tolerating people who agree with you.

Seems to me the kid just got tired of others taping "kick me" signs to his shirt and decided to make his own. Oh my - did I just commit a "hate crime" or a "thought crime"? How Orwellian.

@Dustin-265090

Hate speech is not protected by the First Amendment

Well the 1st Amendment says nothing about hate speech you may want to go check Snyder v. Phelps. The Supreme Court essentially protected Westboro's hate speech with this case.

Homosexuality is not a sexual orientation. Its a chosen behavior and a Sin. There is no proof its a condition. And that is not my opinion.

Not sure where you got your medical degree, but the AMA, and NIH disagree with you.

There is no such thing as sin. It is man made construct that exists in your mind.

Sexual orientation is not chosen any more than attraction to certain somatotypes is. The entire medical community is in agreement on this subject.

Just because your 2000 year old cobbled together story book says it's icky, does not mean that a naturally occurring biological phenomenon is wrong.

Homosexuality has been around a lot longer than the bible. It will be here long after christianity sees the dust bin of history.

Get over it.

I don't care about your religion this is a constitutional matter. Equality is the issue. Now marriage isn't solely performed within your church, atheists can be married along with jews, muslims, mormons etc. In or outside a church to be legal.

Really in the interest of appeasement I think legally all unions should be civil unions in the eyes of the law and let churches perform the ritual of marriage.

Let me say I am divorced so (check) I am a sinner but that is between me and GOD.

Also I like to here about homosexuals sex life the same as heterosexuals sex life. NOT AT ALL! So I will walk away. I don't think there should be a law banning you from doing so.

Wow. Just, wow.

As I've said before, your bible has no bearing on what should or should not be determined as law. Since we have a separation of church and state, what you think your god says or doesn't say doesn't really matter.

We should make our laws based on solid evidence, with the aim of preventing unjust harm inflicted upon people, and, to varying degree, actually enabling people to do better in their lives with help. When you bring religious arguments to the table, that is not evidence. That's fantasy. That's the voice in your head, the fictitious novel you read to your children, the simplistic Aesop's Fables that actually have little, if any, relevance in an actual world.

The real world is more complex than what is contained in any one book, or even multiple books. Science is the best we've done so far, but people keep dragging out religion as though it were real, as though it applied or had some great insight into the workings of the universe. Unfortunately for them, there has been no evidence for pretty much anything in the bible (excluding politicians we knew existed). Genesis, lies. Exodus, more lies. The entire NT? There has been no proof that the rabbi known as Yeshua even existed outside of the minds of the writers. The only character in the bible that we're pretty sure existed was Timothy. The rest? Some are more likely than others, but there's serious doubt as to whether any of them existed as portrayed.

Pablo-123

I wonder if you even know how to tell the truth...

Everything that I have read from you is you twisting everyones words...

to answer a few of your questions...

where did Jesus say anything about homosexuality being wrong...

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22) Some other places to look include: Genesis 19:5, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17, Isaiah 3:9, Romans 1:27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, Jude 1:7

Jesus is the WORD that became flesh... AKA the Living Torah... sooooo all of these verses are from HIM.

you can sit here all you want and keep trying to twist peoples words... but just remember... you reap what you sow...

you are going to have a life of hard tough times because of the choices you make... and the ending will not at all be plesant when you stand before the Creator of the universe and give an account of your life and horrible choices... yikes

please do yourself a favor and try to understand "what is Truth?"

is morality objective or subjective?

these are big questions that you dont have an answer to...

if you do, I'd like to hear them...

Guilty Bystander -

Those "damages" go to paying the court fees, legal fees, gas money, etc. that this kid spent in order to fight an illegal decision by a school administrator. Much of that $20,000 is going towards his lawyer. The rest, well, you can ask him, but he doesn't have to tell you. It's not like he's going out to purchase a new X-Box with his winnings, because more likely is that his parents are going to be reimbursed for all their expense.

Jonathan -

Wow. That's a new one to me, though I've been arguing it for years, just never heard it expressed that way.

Jesus did always proclaim that he came to uphold the OT and the Torah, not to dismantle it. It was Paul (nee Saul, presumably Timothy) who came up with the whole idea of "belief = redemption, no batteries required," kind of attitude that you see in so many christians today.

Personally, I wouldn't care if your book had Jesus tattooing the entire OT on his body (which, according to Leviticus, is a sin punishable by expulsion from society and/or stoning to death). Like I said, the supposed ramblings of a rabbi or priest or shaman from 2000 years ago has little meaning to me, other than what you idiots decide you should put into law.

Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions. Likely applies here. Don't get me wrong, I love Gay people, I have gay friends, and they are happy too. (Anyone get the play on words?) That said, I have no problem with people having homosexual tendencies, but I do have a problem with people acting on them, its called sodomy. Jesus also said counsel the sinner, and sodomy is a sin. Again, laissez faire- I've done my part- counseled the sinner- I'm at peace with that. Somebody's going to toss out the "let he who is without sin cast first stone" I'm amused because that line is almost always taken completely out of context as a way of letting people get away with anything. That said, he's obviously Protestant, which includes likely a million different beliefs that all have something that they took from the Catholic Church's teaching (somewhere along the line) and ignored other parts because they didn't like the rest. Gotta love the buffet Christians. Oh well, be ignorant my brothers and sisters in Christ, Good day.

Kudos to Maverick Couch.

Freedom of Speech, and Freedom of No Religion.

Jonathan-1728701

I feel you should get back to a personal relationship with god instead quoting sections of the bible.

However what do you suppose we do with all of those tricky laws that are scattered across the bible in both the good and old testament. You know the ones you appear to ignore to justify your behavior towards a group of people who just want to be able to be committed and love.

Do you check that the person you are buying bread form is a christian? Do you make sure everyone on the bus is a christian? I mean according to the new testament you are not supposed to mix with non believers.

The point I am making is the bible is a guide not an instruction manual. We would all have to become hermits to adhere to everything. Therefore we all sin as much as you imply a gay person does. Hypocrisy is not a pretty color on you.

I wonder if you even know how to tell the truth...

Everything that I have read from you is you twisting everyones words...

Please point out one example where I twisted someone's words. It's not my fault that your fairy tale has more holes in it than swiss cheese, and that you "believers" choose to selectively follow the manual.

where did Jesus say anything about homosexuality being wrong...

“Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22) Some other places to look include: Genesis 19:5, Leviticus 20:13, Deuteronomy 23:17, Isaiah 3:9, Romans 1:27, 1 Corinthians 6:9, 1 Timothy 1:10, Jude 1:7

Jesus is the WORD that became flesh... AKA the Living Torah... sooooo all of these verses are from HIM.

Oh, I get it, since there is no actual evidence that jeebus ever really commented on homosexuality, you just attribute the whole darn book to him and all the bases are covered. That is so intellectually bankrupt it does not even merit debunking.

you can sit here all you want and keep trying to twist peoples words... but just remember... you reap what you sow...

Sorry, the whole "just you wait till you die" bull@!$%# doesn't work on me. I'm not scared of the big magic sky fairy. Are you afraid of bigfoot?

you are going to have a life of hard tough times because of the choices you make...

Really? I have a great job, a rewarding career, I am financially secure, married for over twenty years and I have two amazing young adult children. Looks like jeebus forgot to punish this nonbeliever.

and the ending will not at all be plesant when you stand before the Creator of the universe and give an account of your life and horrible choices... yikes

Again with big scary just wait till you die crap. A religion based on a reward that never gets delivered, and a threat that does not actually exist.

please do yourself a favor and try to understand "what is Truth?"

So you found some form of truth in a work of fiction that asserts the earth is 10,000 years old, denies evolution of the species, assumes the earth was flat, and was written by nearly illiterate nomads with absolutely zero understand of modern science.

Yeah, they somehow had "the truth".

is morality objective or subjective?

Religion has nothing to do with morality. They are mutually exclusive.

these are big questions that you dont have an answer to...

if you do, I'd like to hear them...

And you seem to think that you have some "answer" in a corrupted, inaccurate, contradictory fictional collection of fables written before they even knew our hemisphere existed.

So, I'm curious in which scripture Jesus said to ignore all of the rest of old testament teachings and follow only him or that if he didn't mention it (or the writers of the gospels that were canonized happened not to record it for posterity's sake) then it isn't law anymore and is justification for doing whatever one pleases.

some how i doubt he would have received the same verdict if the shirt read "Jesus Saves".

Funny how people lap up the anti-gay message of a god that kills children, allows slavery and condones rape. Consensual sex between adults isn't hurting anyone... the fact that some people are willing to follow a deity who kills children, allows slavery and condones rape is the real issue.

I never understood, why people hated gays. I'm all for them, as the result there are more women for me.

Who am I to judge a guy that lived with 12 other guys and claims he never had sex with a woman?

Jesus will be his final Judge.

fujikoma, don't give your opinion on something you know entirely nothing about.

SingBiker, absolutely, kudos to this brave kid. Good for him! But if some moron wants to wear a t-shirt that says "shun all homos" or such equally bile-filled idiocy, they should also have that right. The real test of whether we TRULY believe in freedom of speech is if we support it for those with whom we disagree. (Case in point: the disgusting Westboro Baptist "Church".) Personally, I feel like we cross the line with hate-speech legislation.

Lola007, we get it, YOU think homosexuality is a sin. However, this is not a FACT, as you called it, it is an OPINION. It is your opinion, based on your belief in your religion. And while I am typically hesitant to point this out, preferring to live and let live, you don't seem to understand that to many of your fellow Americans, your religion is nothing more than a fairy tale. Some of us prefer not to get our FACTS from fairly tales. So yeah, a fact and an opinion- there's a difference.

Exactly what is the difference between people who hate homosexuals and those that hate people of faith? It seems both are cut of the same cloth... hate is hate, period!

I am an agnostic and have no stake in this. I don't care if a kid wears a shirt that says "Jesus Saves" or one that says "Jesus Sucks".

But what is fair for the goose is fair for the gander, so to speak.

I believe that ALL shirts with sayings on them should be banned from schools.

Problem solved.

So glad as I read the comments on this thread, that it has turned from a kid wanting to wear a t-shirt to a bash on Christianity. Only on newsvine..

That being said, I support the young man's first ammendment right to wear the t-shirt. I struggle with the "in school" portion. Where do we draw the line? It is not defined. Is it ok to wear the opposing view of this t-shirt? Could someone wear a shirt that simply says "white power" or "I dislike teachers"?

Both of those t-shirts are wrong. Obviously the white power one should be wrong in public as well, but it is a first ammendment right.

So this comes down to, does the first ammendment extend everywhere to include yelling "fire" in a crowded theatre or is there limits? Should school districts as an extension of the goverment have the right to restrict clothing choices? Could they just ban all shirts with any messaging?

I think a deeper fundamental discussion needs to take place. Do first ammendment rights extend to the classroom? Can a teacher insert their opinion on creation in class? Or maybe they could discuss atheism? Are there limits to free speach?

I think there is, and I think the school systems should be able to restrict regardless of the message.

The district outed themselves and anyone who thinks like the. Their objection was that they don’t allow items that are “sexual” in nature to be worn at school. I’m confused as to what in the sentence “jesus is not a homophobe” is “sexual” in nature. Only people who are so tightly wound up and sexually repressed have sexual thoughts about every word in the dictionary...turns out, the only reason people like this hate GLBTQQIA communities is because they can’t disconnect sex from any relationship, at all. So being anti-gay isn’t about some religious reasoning, it’s really just that people are so caught up on sex that they can’t see the forest for all the sex. We have such a weird, repressed, sexually-naive society. Sex is natural, people, it’s as normal as having a conversation with your neighbor, i.e., sex is part of the social interactions we learn about. It’s right there in Maslow’s pyramid. Not that we all have sex with our neighbor, but I will state that it’s way more convenient than having to go across town.

Why do Christians celebrate their most important holidays, Easter and Christmas, by telling their children lies?

Pretty amazing that the LGBT community managed to force this court to side with them(and the kid) instead of with the correct rules of the school.

Why do you ban divisive material from school grounds? Because this sortof material detracts from a proper learning atmosphere.

Its why it is illegal to wear a shirt with Snoop smoking a joint, its why you cant wear a shirt with a rebel flag.

Beyond the fact that the kid got his 15 seconds of fame, what most media homosexuals want, but a few other things could happen.

1. Kid will get beaten to death at school. Kids are kids. This is why, again, schools have dress code rules.

2. Schools will never be able to enforce any kind of dress code because a kids parents can invoke Couch vs. Waynesville Board of Education.

And we spin farther and farther down the toilet.

ViVa America!~

I don't have a problem with the t-shirt. Good for him for standing up for what he believes in, but, this could lead to some pretty bizarre behaviour by some right wing christian fundamentalists just to prove a point. Not to mention, is everybody ready for the class discussion that this shirt could lead to if the teacher is christian? Will that teacher's first amendment rights be protected? Can of worms being opened here.

Tina has the answer. I live in OC California and my kids went to school in Saddleback Valley Unified School District. Dress code for the entire district disallowed t-shirts with any sayings on them.

And, I love the shirt.

I still strain to find any connection between Jesus and the teachings of most churches.

THANK YOU!!! That is why I quit going to church years ago. I don't feel it is my place or anyone else's to judge the way so many 'Christians' today do. As far as the whole gay/straight issue... as long as we are talking about two consenting adults (or two consenting teenagers), love is love. Everyone deserves the opportunity to be in a loving relationship with someone that returns their affections. The way I was raised, Jesus emphasized love and forgiveness above all else.

As long as its done within the rules.

No one should get special treatment. Special treatment creates distrust and misunderstanding.

OK, Should he be allowed to wear this in school? NO!

Schools should be stricter to the subject of education, which is the reason for school. Can they discuss such subjects? Absolutely YES! I think they should be teaching respect for others opinions, everyone has an opinion.

I think they should bring back corporal punishment as well! :)~ Anyways have you been in a classroom lately? Yes I have kids in school 3 in public schools.

Kids are not adults nor are they responsible legally for their actions. That is my foundation.

There should be cameras in every room, YES even bathrooms (u don't have to put them in positions that are infringing upon personal privacy).

I am sick of conservative vs. liberal and religion vs. evolution. I think they all go hand n hand. Stop being stupid.

Stop acting STUPIDLY! LMFAO

Oh, I get it, since there is no actual evidence that jeebus ever really commented on homosexuality, you just attribute the whole darn book to him and all the bases are covered. That is so intellectually bankrupt it does not even merit debunking.

Pablo: Actually no. Jesus confirmed the words of God in the books of Genesis:

⁴ “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female, ⁵ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? ⁶ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”( Mathew 19:4-6)

As quoted by Jesus.

Renee: You have a screwed up sense of what Jesus was like and it is obvious to everyone on this site. You cannot make Jesus go against his father's will just to please someone's selfish desires. Sin is Sin, and the sooner you realize that the less you will be surprised about how fallen you truly are. Homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God, just like fornication. It makes no difference to God how liberal you are.

I feel bad for you in that you are blinded by the atheists, of what Christ is like. Christ never said he came into the world to allow you to continue in sin, but that you and anyone else should come out of it.

Do you now see how silly it is. Living off societal rules from 2,000 years ago.

Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." -- Leviticus 19:19

Ye shall not round the corners of your heads." -- Leviticus 19:27

When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand." -- Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place...." -- Ephesians 5:4

"Do not go around as a gossiper among your people..." -- Leviticus 19:16

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God (Leviticus 21:17-18)

Anyone who dreams or prophesizes anything that is against God, or anyone who tries to turn you from God, is to be put to death. (Deuteronomy 13:5)

If anyone, even your own family suggests worshipping another God, kill them. (Deuteronomy 13:6-10)

If you find out a city worships a different god, destroy the city and kill all of it's inhabitants... even the animals. (Deuteronomy 13:12-15)

Kill anyone with a different religion. (Deuteronomy 17:2-7)

wow what a controversial story.

I agree with Dustin's comments regarding free speech and hate messages. Everyone is always screaming "free speech" and "it is a fee country, I can say what I want", but many fail to realize that free speech does not apply to hate messages and slander. In fact, it is a crime to publicly slander another individual or group and is punishable by imprisonment. I read an article recently that a celebrity was recently involved in a lawsuit who was running her mouth about another celeb, can't do that people !

with that said, I have my own thoughts and opinions regarding this matter, but I doubt whether anyone hear would like to hear it or even care.

one thing I will say is that it sure seems like the mother was behind the motivation. I feel for her, she feels that her kid has been singled out and picked on. well, what he did was kind of crazy, took a lot of guts, but kind of crazy. I don't feel he was wrong or anything or that he should have been punished like he was, but when you do things like that you must expect some attention, isn't that what he was after in the first place ?

here is a scenario for you, one of the youngsters at my workplace wore a t-shirt one day that read "Gay, I don't mind" nothing wrong with it I guess, not something I would wear, but he did get in a little trouble. not so much because of the message, but because he violated dress code, tshirts are not allowed in our office place, come on, be professional. but that is not how he took it, he took advantage of the situation and tried to make a lawsuit out of it. now that right there is wrong, he was trying to use the controversy that he created to his advantage.

a different way to think about it ? would it then be considered a hate message ? would it then be wrong ?

Hey Pablo, you're real good at splitting hairs, but I have a newsflash for you. What or if Jesus said anything about a man inserting his penis into the rectum of another man is insignificant. The bottom line is Jesus did state and frequently he obeys his father in heaven. So you can lay off the Jesus said crap. Oh and one more thing if we all practiced homosexuality and there were no medical science and no surrogates how long before man extincts himself? It's not natural, the parts don't fit, there is no ability to procreate, and homosexuality goes against the order of the universe itself. Argue the Bible, religion, or any other tactic you can pull out, but in the end for human beings a homosexual lifestyle is self-defeating and a death sentence to mankind as a whole. When a woman can ejaculate sperm into the uterus of another woman upon orgasm please let me know, then I will accept homosexuality as a normal process and a normal lifestyle/existence.

C'mon, kids...why would someone deliberately pick a lifestyle where there is so much hate and ridicule...to risk being turned away by your own friends and family because some hypocrite would rather hate someone for something they don't understand?

You ARE born this way, just like I was born to like men....I prefer men because...I prefer men!

I didn't sit there in my already confused adolescent state and decide what I would like to do....it's the way I am wired...so get over it.

Don't worry, guys...just because you are in the same room w/a gay man doesn't mean he wants you any more than every lesbian will be lusting after me.

Hey Turn, if being gay is a choice, when did you choose to be straight?

Do you now see how silly it is. Living off societal rules from 2,000 years ago.

Neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee." -- Leviticus 19:19

Ye shall not round the corners of your heads." -- Leviticus 19:27

When men fight with one another, and the wife of the one draws near to rescue her husband from the hand of him who is beating him, and puts out her hand and seizes him by the private parts, then you shall cut off her hand." -- Deuteronomy 25:11-12

Dan Z: It is when people like you quote it!

You really do fit the words of 1 Timothy 1:7-10

⁷ Some of them want to be teachers of the Law. But they do not know what they are talking about even if they act as if they do.

And if you read a little further down:

⁸ We know the Law is good when it is used the way God meant it to be used.

⁹ We must remember the Law is not for the person who is right with God. It is for those who do not obey anybody or anything. It is for the sinners who hate God and speak against Him. It is for those who kill their fathers and mothers and for those who kill other people. ¹⁰ It is for those who do sex sins and for people who do sex sins with their own sex. It is for people who steal other people and for those who lie and for those who promise not to lie, but do. It is for everything that is against right teaching.

WHY IS IT THAT ALL ATHEISTS HAVE TROUBLE REALIZING THIS FACT? WHY DO THEY STILL THINK THAT THEY CAN DISTORT THE WORDS OF JESUS TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT HIM TO SAY? ARE THEY BLIND?

WHY DO ATHEIST STILL SPREAD THE SAME LIES OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHEN I HAVE CLEARLY GIVEN THE VERSES IN THE BIBLE THAT CONTRADICTS THEIR SPEECH?

You all need lots of prayer! Because even when it is in front of you, you won't listen.

Pablo, don't forget that the new testament is just a collection of stories that were gathered together over 300 years after jesus died, at the counsel of Nicaea, where a collection of christian priests decided which stories they wanted to keep, tossed out the ones they didn't want and edited some to suite their needs better, like making jesus immortal. the gnostics decided to keep all the stories, so the tolerant christians tried to kill them all. i won't even mention it was a jewish fathers duty to have his sons married by the time they were 20 or they were considered gay and forced to leave the tribe...so i guess jesus was gay, at least according to jewish law at the time.

unhappy,

I'm not teaching anything. You say that that being gay is wrong because the bible says so. I simply put some other versus that many people break. Why are some ok to break and some arnt. Can you please explain the difference.

bluepanther20

In return I will ask why would someone deliberately rebel against society to steal, rape, and murder? Why would someone deliberately sabotage their life and the lives of others to commit these types of crimes?

Your theory is flawed.

Liberals crack me up. They so live in their own world. They think they are the "true" conservatives. They think they are the "true" moderates. They think they are the "true" fiscally responsible people. They think they are the "true" caregivers of the poor and underprivileged (yeah Biden, how about that 1.5% of your income given to charity last year, eh?). And lately, more and more, they think they know the "true" Jesus, as in their countless snide "What Would Jesus Do?" comments.

WHY DO ATHEIST STILL SPREAD THE SAME LIES OVER AND OVER AGAIN WHEN I HAVE CLEARLY GIVEN THE VERSES IN THE BIBLE THAT CONTRADICTS THEIR SPEECH?

You all need lots of prayer! Because even when it is in front of you, you won't listen.

Well said, unhappy. But you have to remember that most atheists are liberal left wingers. They live in their own pink pixie-dusted fairytale utopia seen through rose colored glasses. What they FEEL is their reality and that is all they know to be true. If written word, facts, or anything else goes against their what they FEEL as the truth and reality, then they will ignore it, twist it, distort it, and in a worse case scenario, flat out LIE about it. Welcome to their world.

I guess since their ruling, if a student wore a shirt to school that said: "Shun All Homo's" they would also be without fear of suspension, since they too are just expressing their 1st Amendment Rights !!!

No because his T-shirt is making a statement, whereas your example is advocating an action. If you instead used "Jesus is Homo" then by this ruling, it would be just fine.

unhappy,

I'm not teaching anything. You say that that being gay is wrong because the bible says so. I simply put some other versus that many people break. Why are some ok to break and some arnt. Can you please explain the difference.

Danz: That's a good question. But it is obvious you do not know the bible, so you are misquoting its verses. If you were to look at homosexuality, it is forbidden in both the old and the new testament. But if you were to look at the other verses, then let me direct you to a verse in the bible about Jesus. From Hebrews 10:9-12:

⁹ Then He said, “I have come to do what You want Me to do.” And this is what He did when He died on a cross. God did away with the Old Way of Worship and made a New Way of Worship. ¹⁰ Our sins are washed away and we are made clean because Christ gave His own body as a gift to God. He did this once for all time.

¹¹ All Jewish religious leaders stand every day killing animals and giving gifts on the altar. They give the same gifts over and over again. These gifts cannot take away sins. ¹² But Christ gave Himself once for sins and that is good forever. After that He sat down at the right side of God.

No longer do we need to keep a set of rules (Leviticus, Deuteromy, etc. )to be cleansed from sin. Christ has already provided the sin offering. Trouble is, most people won't accept it.

Pablo, why do you keep acting like God and Jesus are 2 different people? God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all one. Jesus is God. As for your comment on Hitler, when he was young, he was a Christian. Then, when he started getting into politics, he abandoned Christianity. When he was elected for Germany, he said that he was the Messiah, but he also thought that people with blond hair and blue eyes were descendants from the gods, which is from Greek Mythology.

if god did away with the old way, why is it considered part of the bible. Can god contradict god, can god have two laws that void one another.

Whoever curses father or mother shall die" (Mark 7:10 NAB)

Leviticus 25:45 “Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy … and they shall be your possession… they shall be your bondmen forever.

Exodus 21:2 & 7 “If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing… And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

Joel 3:8 “And I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the children of Judah, and they shall sell them to the Sabeans, to a people far off: for the Lord hath spoken it.”

Genesis 3:16 “And thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.” 1 Timothy 2:12 says a woman must not teach, remain silent and must be subjugated to her man. 1 Corinthians 14:34 & 1 Peter 3:6 both say that women have limited rights and are under control of their men.

unhappy

No longer do we need to keep a set of rules (Leviticus, Deuteromy, etc. )to be cleansed from sin. Christ has already provided the sin offering. Trouble is, most people won't accept it.

No truer words have ever been spoken.

After this first came into the news, my daughter wanted a shirt just like this to wear to school. We're also in Ohio, not far from this school district. We had to make one, and she wore it without incident to school in support of this young man who had it all right. Congrats to him for standing up for what's right and not giving up.

Bill-Austin

If you truly were a concerned student of history, you would know that any adaption of Roman dieties, came after 300 AD when Contantine conquered Rome to become Czar. You would understand that the Reformation grew in response to the Pope's unrepentant response to Luther's 95 thesis pointing out the errors.

Bill - the bottom line isn't what the church acts. It isn't what your neighbor does. The Bottom line is do you accept or reject Christ and conform to his ways.

Running around pointing out the errors of believers is no different than what Lucifer is currently doing. He was tossed out of heaven because he thought he knew better than his creator so much so, he organized 1/3 of heaven to march against god.

Maybe the devil and the 1/3 angels were on to something. If that many of your people, followers, army leave. Maybe your doing something wrong. Haven't seen that type of lopsided split since the civil war.

I "knew" this man who was 30 years old or so, back when I was young and impressionable.......he had never had a girl-friend, and he was sort of a cute, Jewish Mama's Boy...had an absentee father, didn't work very hard at his chosen trade, he preferred to hang around with a bunch of other under-employed men.....often got into trouble with the law...wonder if it was because his life-long choice of all male friends made him suspect as a "Queer" ?

That man was Yeshua of Nazareth.

Beanne

go out a be fruitul and replenish the earth

Is what God's instruction to Noah and his family when they left the Ark

To Adam and Eve and all animals he said be fruitful, and to multiply to fill the earth.

Huh... Interesting. I wasn't aware God or Jesus wrote the Bible. And Random pennsylvanian, I thought Jesus was the son of God? And Hitler never said a word about Greek mythology.

Okay, this is something I feel the need to address. For those of you asking for me to cite where Jesus comdemns homosexuality, here's my response. The bible isn't a book of Jesus quotes. If it were, it would be a lot shorter. Also, if you believe the rest of the Bible to be divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit, you have Holy Spirit quotes written down by man that condemn homosexuality.

if god did away with the old way, why is it considered part of the bible. Can god contradict god, can god have two laws that void one another.

Danz: Are you asking why the old laws are included in the bible( separate issue) or are you asking why God is offering you another way to heaven, one which you could not fail; if you had tried it?

Doesn't the bible say in James 2 : 10:

For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who
has broken all of God's laws.

So even if you kept all the old laws, and broke just one, you would still need Christ as a sin offering. God knew you wouldn't be able to keep all the laws, so he provided the sin offering for you anyway. How is that contradicting?

Lucifer, Satan,Zeus and Apollo..all were made up tall tales from the days before TV,movies and LSD..the Bible is bull-shirt, made up stuff by Essenes,Cannanites and Hermaphrodytes,sometimes this fiction was written in Aramaic...then translated into Greek....if 12 Greeks each decided to "translate" the same chapter of the Aramaic Bible, you would, if you could read ancient Greek, be much surprised to see that each translation bore the imprint of that particular translator...his translation of the word "Miracle" wouldn't necessarily match the other 11 translations...the word "battle" may become "struggle" by one translator, or "skirmish" by another man, or "scuffle" by another, or "pushing and shoving match" by yet another..all dependent on the level of education, and sophistication, experience, and prejudices of the translator...........THEN.......................

These 10 mixed translations were further translated into Latin from the Greek, by men of misc. educational, experiential and lifestyle background...some from Rome,others from Naples or in Roman colonies in London,Paris or Cairo............

From there the work was further watered-down into French,German,English and Russian......FABLES, thats all this stuff was...fables....the concept of "Angels with wings" was already 800 years old when the Nazarene was born, so was the concept of Virgin birth, and "hell" was even older...so, the bible is FICTION, not even good fiction as there is no continuum to the narrative, AND it is filled with, and advises the use of VIOLENCE throughout. IT's BS

Maybe it's like the movie Ghost when Patrick Swayze goes into Whoopi Goldberg's body, lol. That was a great movie, but seriously, religious nonsense. And what is with God or the Angels or whoever banged Mary. She was a unmarried virgin, isn't there some law being broken there?

JK-4363698

If you believe in God and creationism, then you must accept that gays were created by God. Only aetheists have any right to be homophobes; the religious must respect all of God's creation.

I created adam and eve who were hetero and he made woman for man, man for woman. As for implying God made someone gay , is silly. Its a preference and lifestyle. No gay gene, no proof of it, no study showing it exists. Proof that once gay people can and do have the ability to change their lifestyle and go straight and get married , have kids, just as someone straight, can decide to give up on hetero lifestyle and date same sex.

'phobe' is latin for fear and Jesus is not afraid of anything so yeah, Jesus is not a homophobe but He also speaks out against homosexuality and the Bible CLEARLY states that it is a sin. So is stealing, adultery, and loads of other stuff. But yes, homosexuality is a sin and though Jesus loves everyone (we're all sinners), He expects people to repent.

Crossfit,

That is a fools comment. You fall in love, you don't chose who to love. If thats the case I have been doing it wrong, as most of humanity. i think I will pick Salma Hayek, cause i have the choice. And cause she's a woman and a second rate human being, but still above the slaves, it's good to go.

Susan D

And to the ones above who hide their bigotry and fear behind the Bible,

Susan a lot of Christians are God said it, and that settles it for me. There is no point to resist what God tells you. That is why we must die.

until the day comes that you apply ALL aspects of the Bible in a literal sense and protest Red Lobster, any kind of pork, and condemn every tattoo'd person on this planet, y'all need to just zip it.

Since you clearly have no understanding of what the Bible is all about, you nead to read it and get someone who understands it to explain it to you. If not, then you should zip it!

I'll give you a hint. What you spewed came from the Old Testament (Old covenant), Christians are under the New Testament (New Covenant). In the shortest form, the old testament is about we need redemption and some day it will come. The New Testament is about Christ being the sacrifice that through him you gain redemption. Under his terms, and this also actually held true of the old testament.

You shall love the Lord your God with
all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’^{£ 38}This
is the first and great
commandment. ³⁹And the
second is like
it: ‘You shall love
your neighbor as yourself.’^{£ 40}On these two
commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

Without God's help, you cannot fullfill these.

If everyone sins, then leave them alone. It is not up to you to judge. It is up to your god, and you will not throw stones, and please remove the bean from your eye.

Unhappy

Still waiting for you to tell us why you only follow ONE law in Leviticus, and ignore the rest.

What's wrong, not man enough to admit that you treat your holy book like a Chinese take-out menu... picking the parts you like and ignoring the parts you don't like. I'm sure your God does not see that as disrespectful.

Pablo

Hitler was christian.

And Judas Iscariot was one of the twelve disciples.

Self profession is usually pretty worthless. Human oppinion on such matters is very unreliable - we cannot tell when someone is lying to us. That is why we have the polticians we have in office. Instead of putting the one with the most integrity in, we put the one with the best looking mask in.

God judges the heart, it is he who created the heart and nothing is hid from him.

If you have someone in the name of Christ standing up and telling big lies about people, confiscating the property of the accused, and promoting genecide. It's pretty clear that they aren't a Christian.

DB Akron

What you spewed came from the Old Testament (Old covenant), Christians are under the New Testament (New Covenant)

Then why does EVERY... SINGLE... GOD... DAMNED... CHRISTIAN... QUOTE... THE... OLD... TESTAMENT?

Seriously, I am so tired of this bull-s*** cop out.

Christians like YOU come on here every day, and quote the Old Testament. Do you want me to count how many times Leviticus was brought up by Christians in this forum? You come here every day and quote Leviticus... then when someone points out all the other laws in Leviticus, you hide behind your "we don't follow Old Testament laws anymore."

Ok, if you don't follow Old Testament laws... WHY THE F*** ARE YOU CHRISTIANS QUOTING THEM?

Unhappy-1583758

I think rather than typing in great big capital letters wondering why atheists twist words I want to know why Christians do. Which I am sure you would agree with me is worse!

Unhappy, there is no point fighting arguing and judging Atheists. Its not your place to do so. This entire argument is pointless. In my heart I think Jesus doesn't care if you are straight or if you are gay. As long as you follow the 10 commandments and love one another.

God would not create people just so their love can be sinful and yes god did create gay people. Everyone focuses on sex and forget that we are really talking about people who want to love and be committed.

Don't reply if you are going to just spout more bible quotes. Live through action not words. You are as much as a sinner as you think someone who is gay is, you know, he who is without sin. . . .

Earl

Homophobe means uncomfortable with their actions. Not the person.

No Earl phobe means fear. What the activists are aiming at is insinuating that because someone is uncomfortable with homosexual practice that they fear they may do the same thing to. That is exactly how Homophobia was first presented and still what it means.

When I hear someone start spouting the words "Homophobic" or "Hate speech" they remind me of an immature teenager or child who says "I hate you" to mom or dad. They are betting that their parent will bend to their will by using such aggressive emotional motivating language.

Krestov

Any act of disobedience to God, is sin. It is clear by nature what our bodies were intended to be used for. Doing anything different, probably is sin, isn't it then?

Personally I think the forefathers used one concept in large with writing the constitution. "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you".

Anyways the modern interpretation of the golden rule is "those with the gold make the rules".

DB Akron

Everything is a sin! From us pointing it out to others from us eating too much, from not being charitable. I am tired of people using the bible as a means to tell another group you don't deserve to be treated with dignity and equally and I am tired of non-believers call Christians names as well. Both sides grow up!

The point i have been trying to make everyone needs to take a step back and look after their own souls. As for nature well that is rather unclear and no I don't want to get into THAT debate.

"I would even question the tactics used because we were never told we were being sued"

More legal shenanigans from a group that proudly announces their cowardice, but yet lacks the balls to inform the high school they're about to be sued. Mountain out of a molehill anyone? What's worse is
said group thinks of this as a victory, championing themselves for bending the rules to a game they couldn't win and boasting of ineptness afterward. Bravo! So you exploited another loophole – Tell me Lambda groupies, where in the first amendment is it guaranteed the right to wear T-Shirts?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press;

I didn't know Maverick's high school district was an extension of congress So freedom of speech
counts as saying what you want, when you want irrespectively? I guess another group of students can wear a T-shirt that says: "Jesus wasn't pro-homo either, but shouldn't homosexuals be afraid of a much more scorching position[insert picture of hell]", so that when Lambda group, with their predictable selves, march back into the courtroom, their words can be repeated back to them...Works both ways you know.

Pride in what? Greater risks of std's, depression, or substance abuse? Which of course, like your transgendered counterparts, will be blamed on society due to your denial of the fact that you can't change your gender or the gender for which you were intended. I wasn't aware that one characteristic, such as sexual orientation, was completely indicative of the complex makeup of what it means to be human. No. That's one facet. Human beings are not their sexual orientations, although, I guess that makes no difference to people who consider their illness -- homosexuality-- essential to their sense of self worth.

@Pablo

"I and my father are one" – John 10:30

I would guess, from the razed embers of Sodom and Gomorrah, we already know what His Father's position is :)

Terry E. Christian

We simply insist that God also made gay people, who are naturally attracted to mates of the same gender exclusively.

The whole purpose of God creating woman was man should not be alone, he should have a helper who is appropropriate for him. So God took a rib from man an formed a woman. Not a woman for a woman or a man for a man, but man for a woman and woman for the man. Dude you have 1 less rib in your ribcage, women have the full number.

There is only one except - celibacy.

Twisting what God says and does may sway people not firmly grounded in the Bible, and may make some feel justified that what they chose to do. Regardless, the twisting will not change God's mind, only men's minds.

You also have the most twisted view of Sodom and Gomorrah. They wanted to have sex with the strangers, that is rather euphanistically clear, and the request was made several times.

Tolerance, acceptance, and love of all is why I come to Newsvine - group hug anyone?

PS; nobody read posts 10 thru 130, but you still matter to me & Jesus, and Mary, and Joey, and Skippy.

Pablo

orientation -

1

a: the act or process of orienting or of being oriented b: the state of being oriented; broadly: arrangement, alignment

2
a: a usually general or lasting direction of thought, inclination, or interest b: a person's self-identification as heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual <sexual orientation>

Read carefully - orientation is a series of choices that you follow because of some benefit and become pre-disposed to act on.

"God did not create gays - they were given free will and chose that lifestyle for themselves...the urge to sin comes from satan but the grace to resist it comes from God"

Yes happy, God gave all of us free will, and for anyone other than God to try and take it away from anyone is in itself a sin. So who are any of us to try and tell others how they must live? Oh, by the way, sin doesn't come from Satan, it comes from ego. Ego if not controlled, will over ride our spiritual side. Man created Satan as a scapegoat, something to throw the blame onto so they don't have to take the responsibility for their own actions. The old excuse that Satan made me do it is just that, an excuse that is old and worn out. The nice thing is, someone can convince everyone around them, even themselves that Satan made them do it, but, our Creator knows better. You can try and fool yourself and others, but not the Creator.

Can the priests try to practice what they preach, instead of molesting little boys.

If you are Jewish, then absolutely, NO Homosexuals allowed. No pork fried rice, no shrimp fried rice either.

However, if you are a believer in Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ; then Judaic law as laid down in the Torah is fulfilled in Him. If Christ did not fulfill the law, and ANY part of the law still applies, then He did not fulfill the Law and belief in him is useless and you may as well not believe in him at all.

Just as Jesus was able to love the adulterers, tax collectors, prostitutes, thieves, and every other type of sinner, so also he would be able to love those you might hate. He loved Greeks and Samaritans. For those who don't know, Samaritans were an offshoot of the Jewish nation. "Proper" Jews looked down on Samaritans as being not quite good enough to allow them to help build or worship in the Temple at Jerusalem.

Just as Jesus loved EVERYONE, so his teachings say we should act the same. There is no place in the heart of any true Christian for the kind of hatred against homosexuals some people have expressed in the name of Jesus.

Dear Religious persons - just tell your kids it's a Rainbow Trout.

When I worked in sewer - we called your lunkers Brown Trout.

In the final days, there will be a complete fallen away of the church. Not from the church but of the church. Those final days are almost here.

Indie

Then why does EVERY... SINGLE... GOD... DAMNED... CHRISTIAN... QUOTE... THE... OLD... TESTAMENT?

Good Question!

The old testament is about law and often the only place to clearly identify what is wrong. If you don't know that something is wrong that you are doing, then how will you know you need to get better? Just because Jesus died for our sins, didn't make those wrong things right, they now can be forgiven. Jesus was in Israel, they thoroughly knew the Scriptures of the old testament, so there was no need for him to tell them anything about the law. He was there to show them the way he really wanted to live.

The New testament is about how Christ paid our punishment for what we do wrong against him.

Heard the...don't fear the radio active tuna T-Shirts...are coming out soon...

Still waiting for you to tell us why you only follow ONE law in Leviticus, and ignore the rest.

What's wrong, not man enough to admit that you treat your holy book like a Chinese take-out menu... picking the parts you like and ignoring the parts you don't like. I'm sure your God does not see that as disrespectful.

IndieParty: That's not what I said. The verse means that if you were to break one law you are guilty of sin and you are to be punished. So even if you followed all the other laws and broke only one, you would still need to be punished.

Get it, you broke the law. Penalty for sin is death. Doesn't matter if it is only one!

I think you need to understand the quote before you comment, because believe me, it shows.

SRS

All you Bible quoters: YOU GOT IT WRONG. You are using an ENGLISH TRANSLATION of the original. The fact you quoted one with the word HOMOSEXUAL in it indicates YOUR TRANSLATION IS REALLY, REALLY BADLY WRONG

Good try SRS, but Fail. There is no exact translation, NONE. The reason is that many of the concepts expressed by the Greek and Hebrew languages there are no equivilents in many languages. The King James was a profound attempt to do a translation to the closest possible word. Over nearly 400 years the english language meanings changed enough that some words become outdated (and many have been updated.

The modern translations of the day, they try to write phrases to give people the full meaning of the Greek or Hebrew. There are a lot of misfires there two - and I do have contact with a native macedonian who has no problem pointing out the problems. Many of these modern translations are being further polluting because many scholors now are deciding they are better judges of the language than people who live and breath the lanquages.

So knock off the slamming of people, they are doing the best they can with what they have available to them!

If you quote the Old Testament, you DARN WELL should be eating ONLY KOSHER

This is the most telling of your ignorance of the Bible and Christianity. This leads me to believe that your first paragraph is something you read from someone else who is either pro-gay trying to provide rational for homosexuality to be acceptable to God, when the Bible is clear that it is not.

pfvc95

The shirt saying "Jesus is not a homophobe" doesn't and shouldn't offend anyone

Aare you kidding? That probably really chafes those who say otherwise.

Wayne School needs some new rally squad t-shirts that say, "Randy Gebhardt is not a Homo".

ItIsWhat!t!s stated: "Pride in what? Greater risks of std's, depression, or substance abuse? Which of course, like your transgendered counterparts, will be blamed on society due to your denial of the fact that you can't change your gender or the gender for which you were intended."

So, I gather from that statement, the greater risks only happen to gays? Same with depression and substance abuse? Really? What about married people who sleep around and the STD's they take home to the spouse? What about the depression that happens when married couples divorce? What about the substance abuse that many married couples go through? Oh, that's right, all of those greater risks only happen to gays, right ItIsWhat!t!s? I'm just going by your statement.

"Human beings are not their sexual orientations, although, I guess that makes no difference to people who consider their illness -- homosexuality-- essential to their sense of self worth."

Wow, so now it's an illness? Does this come from a real diagnosis, or just popular belief that people love to spread around, because they don't have clue one of what they are talking about?

Krestov

Don't reply if you are going to just spout more bible quotes.

Sorry, but you are not the Newsvine dictator and you do not get to tell any of the posters what they can and cannot do unless it is Newsvine policy. Then it has to be a Newsvine staff member who issues the order. So.....

Matthew 24 (TNIV)

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times

¹ Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. ² "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

³ As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"

⁴ Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. ⁵ For many will come in my name, claiming, 'I am the Messiah,' and will deceive many. ⁶ You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. ⁷ Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. ⁸ All these are the beginning of birth pains.

⁹ "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. ¹⁰ At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, ¹¹ and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. ¹² Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, ¹³ but whoever stands firm to the end will be saved. ¹⁴ And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

¹⁵ "So when you see standing in the holy place 'the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— ¹⁶ then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. ¹⁷ Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. ¹⁸ Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. ¹⁹ How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! ²⁰ Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. ²¹ For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

²² "If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. ²³ At that time if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Messiah!' or, 'There he is!' do not believe it. ²⁴ For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. ²⁵ See, I have told you ahead of time.

²⁶ "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. ²⁷ For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. ²⁸ Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

²⁹ "Immediately after the distress of those days

"'the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

³⁰ "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the peoples of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. ³¹ And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

³² "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. ³³ Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. ³⁴ Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. ³⁵ Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

All of you involved in hating on Christians, denying the Bible, Jesus, and God are only doing one thing...fulfilling prophecy. I do not hate you nor do I stand in judgement of you nor do I condemn you, but I do have great pity for your souls and your afterlife.

Bring on the persecution heathens because I am more than ready for this evil and hateful world to pass away for the new heaven and the new earth!

(Certain parts bolded by me for emphasis)

What kind damages in this case was worth $20,000. That's all it was about anyway. We can share the Word of God all we want but the unbelievers are not gonna take head anyway. The Word has been shared, lets just shake the dust from our feet.

Jesus says you cant make up words after Genesis;

I applaud Pablo for wanting to be a lightning rod - whether he meant to or not.

I, am a Christian, and while I understand the Bible's point on this alternate "orientation/lifestyle", I also understand the LGBT side because my brother and my cousin are gay (they are gay on separates sides of the country - no incest here) - and I still love them... I just don't condone what they do.

I myself, believe being gay is a choice we make - either consciously or sub-consciously - but a choice none the less. I also believe I am just visiting this planet - and that I have to answer to someone higher than the Pope.

Since if you commit ANY sin - you are guilty in GOD's eyes. No Gray... The punishment is death.... guess what, because of Adam - We all die.

The only one that was truly innocent, but still died was Jesus. And GOD gave to him the ability to return to life because he paid for our sins. HE WAS THE ONLY ONE TO OVERCOME DEATH. Not Mohammad, Not Budda, not anyone else, just Jesus.

The only requirements were that I believe that He is GOD's true son, that he alone is Lord, change my sinful life into a life that he set out. Follow his teachings, and spread the word of his Father... Love thy GOD with all your Heart, Soul, Strength, and Mind. And love thy neighbor as thyself.

Does that mean I don't sin any more... No I still sin, but I can confess them and change my sinful direction - and know that Jesus died for my sins - Past, Present and Future. He paid my bill, I can never repay.

To - Tim (R-OK) - I understand and agree (mostly) - they wave been warned and told - time to shake off the dust.

@Pablo123, Cult of Personality, Synapse7

Romans 1:21-32 Maybe that will answer your questions.

And, Pablo, what exactly is Jeebus? Sounds like you've had a very hard, dissapointing life and you are full of anger. Since you were the one who ask where exactly the bible condemns same sex relationship, I hope these chapters will help you. Also, show some respect to other people's believes the same way you are demanding acceptance and respect for your believes. May God bless you and help you see the light.

Tim (R-OK)

Very good suggestion, especially since the tornado sirens are going off and I need to get in the shelter.

To the MORON above that said the district court judge was appointed by Bush. If you are going to post, at least get educated, district court judges are VOTED into office.

To the people replying with Bible quotes, I'm going to reply as I do to all people that try to tell me all about their special book. Your "Holy Book" was written by human hands, was formed into a collective source (the Bible) by human hands (yes, they tossed out shart they didn't like), was translated by human hands, and then was rewritten by human hands (KING JAMES).

For all intents and purposes, your Bible has passed SO MANY HANDS, and yet, you are going to tell me that an ancient book written in tribal age was never doctored by any of the hundreds of people it passed the hands of to side with their beliefs? Look at how many different Churches there are that are preaching "The Word". All of their words, interpretations, etc, are all different. Yet you are telling me this one single word is the word of almighty God.

For you, I say shut up. Actually, no, that's crude. Please pick your keyboard up, and toss it out the nearest window. I'm sick of hearing you slam the Bible in my face when you're the one who believes it because it agrees with what you personally believe in. Face it. You think gay people are icky. That's ok. The second you tell them they're going to burn forever and that they're sinners and should be punished, that's when you lose me, in fact, that's why I quit being a Christian. I lost faith, and any desire to believe after I heard all the hate and hellfire and bigotry you spew.

Love? You have no love in your heart. You take a steaming shart all over the word of Jesus and you pick out the words of his HUMAN followers, not Jesus himself. He healed the sick, he ran around with prostitutes and thieves, and yet here you all are grabbing your pitchforks and brandishing fire. Face it. Your time is up. The world hates you, your churches, your bigotry, you hellfire and damnation. I know I sure do. Accept the fate that your religion is just like the Roman, Greek, and Nordic Pantheons: Dust In The Wind, a dust created from the burning of your scripture in the very Hellfire you spewed.

@Only in America,

So, I gather from that statement, the greater risks only happen to gays? Same with depression and substance abuse? Really?

On what do you gather besides confirmation bias? The presence of higher risk in other constituencies doesn't legitimate a homosexual lifestyle. Does homosexuality even have any biological function?
Homosexuals can't procreate, and gametes invalidate homosexuality, so any diseases acquired from homosexuality are mainly needless fatalities. Homosexuality is an idealogical, not biological, orientation, and there is no such thing as a third sex. The union of a man and woman can always produce children, but what does a gay union produce?

What about all the gay couples who bring STD's home to their partners? A homosexual orientation has little higher function than orgasm. Homosexual couples have statistically been shown not to be exclusively monogamous, and gay males aren't as committed as their heterosexual counterparts. And, that's before getting into the straw man who drowned in a poisoned well generalization of heterosexual infidelity. Those wild oats got to be sown, you know.

What about the depression that happens when married couples divorce?

That is of course assuming that all couples who divorce don't want to get away from their spouse, or that gays don't divorce. Depression and substance abuse are both treatable, yet homosexuals ascribe their orientation to nature, in the presence of a fully functioning reproductive system, on the grounds it's nature's way of population control. The only difference between the substance addict who goes to rehab, the manic depressant who gets assistance, and the homosexual is that the two former over the latter are smart enough not to become statistics.

Wow, so now it's an illness? Does this come from a real diagnosis, or just popular belief that people love to spread around, because they don't have clue one of what they are talking about?

Actually, that's what the APA called it. Homosexuality was originally diagnosed an ego syn-tonic mental disorder where the sufferer, the homosexual, regarded their illness, homosexuality, as essential to their self worth. It is still is diagnosable, btw, if the homosexual feels “distress”.

Renee: You have a screwed up sense of what Jesus was like and it is obvious to everyone on this site. You cannot make Jesus go against his father's will just to please someone's selfish desires. Sin is Sin, and the sooner you realize that the less you will be surprised about how fallen you truly are. Homosexuality is a sin in the eyes of God, just like fornication. It makes no difference to God how liberal you are.

I feel bad for you in that you are blinded by the atheists, of what Christ is like. Christ never said he came into the world to allow you to continue in sin, but that you and anyone else should come out of it.

Wow, thanks. I don't think anyone could have proved my point better. Why is it that 'do not judge' has so conveniently been forgotten? I will say it again: It is not my place to judge others. And it is not your place to judge me or others. But, since you are judging... I am Republican, Christian, straight, and since I am single right now, I also happen to be celibate. Out of all of those, the only one that is not a choice is being straight. That is what makes me think that when someone is gay, it is not a choice. That doesn't make them a bad person, and I don't think it condemns them. Love is still love.

When one of my closest childhood friends tells me he is gay, he is still my friend and I still love him like I always did. If my neighbor, who would help me if I needed it and I would return the favor, happens to have a same sex partner, I am not going to turn my back or condemn him or her. And nothing anyone can say would ever convince me that Jesus would want me to treat them any differently, or that I would be condemned for feeling love and kindness towards them.

In reading just a portion of these posts, it occurred to me that if you compared this most of this conversation to a conversation of Muslims discussing homosexuality, you probably couldn't tell much of a difference. It's fascinating how similar the two religions really are, and yet, how much they detest and fear each other. Is it because they are in competition with each other? I wish a university would spend a couple decades studying this phenomena to get to the root of it.

And it is not your place to judge me or others. But, since you are judging... I am Republican, Christian, straight, and since I am single right now, I also happen to be celibate.

Renee: I have the right to judge you. You claim to be a christian and therefore, God gives me that right!

¹² It is not for me to judge those outside the church. You are to judge those who belong to the church. ¹³ God will judge those outside the church. So you must put that sinful person out of your church.

(1 Corinthians 5:12)

Or do you not know that the saints will judge the world? If the world is judged
by you, are you not competent to constitute the smallest law courts? ( 1 Corinthians 6:2)

And yes, you are responsible for any gay person thinking that God is okay with his/her way of life. I cannot reach the same people as you do. Nobody told you to stop loving them. However, you are charged by God ( not me ) to warn them of their sin. Or have you never read the scriptures?

If I warn the wicked, saying, 'You are under the penalty of death,' but you fail
to deliver the warning, they will die in their sins. And I will hold you
responsible for their deaths. ( Ezekiel 3:18)

@ majkdad: Commenting on your comment at 4:09, I've gotta say you did pretty well at finding the spots where it is said that homosexuality is a sin. You have yet to point out a single time where either God or Jesus directly says it, so I'm just going to remind you that it has been up to human interpretation and may have been "twisted" just as so many other "Christian" ideas have been.

Also, this is to everyone in the conversation: Jesus makes the point in the gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke that only God has the true right to judge on any sin, including homosexuality. If the person isn't causing any real harm, then I see no reason why his sexuality should be an issue.

My comment on the shirt: He's not promoting violence or hate, so the shirt's fine with me. For those of you who have commented that if this boy's shirt is allowed then shirts saying things that are against homosexuality should be allowed as well, I agree entirely with you.... Once you show me a shirt speaking against homosexuality that isn't promoting hate or violence. I have yet to see one.

Hi Rene,

You being a Christian notwithstanding there is nothing wrong with judging others. We do it all the time. You make choices about who to date, who to have watch your kids, who to work for, or with, whether you want to hang out with people who have values which are unacceptable to you, and so much more. There isn't anything wrong with judging, and though I am not a believer, the bible doesn't reject your DUTY to judge other people. It, in fact, demands you do it. The point is to be just, meaning fair. Don't be hypocritical, for instance.

For me this isn't about what the bible says or doesn't say, or whether it is OT or NT. I just don't care. This kid with a weird name has every right to be provocative, and we as a society should protect his right to present his opinion. The school ought to use the t-shirt in order to promote discussion--banning it as some posters have said makes the most sense makes, in fact, the least sense. But can we trust our public schools to foster a fair debate about major social questions? Probably not. But if another student wants to wear a shirt which says people who think Jesus supports homosexuals are fools, well let's let it happen. We SHOULD be fighting this out. We SHOULD be judging the quality of the arguments made by our, for lack of a better word, opponents.

You can take which ever side you favor, but make no mistake about it, it IS judging to do so. And I think Jesus would be proud of you for making a fair judgment. If I believed in Jesus.

1st. Bible clearly states homosexuality (man laying with another man) (woman laying with another woman) as being an abomination. Last time I checked that ment bad not good.

2nd. A phobia is a fear of something. Hpmophobia = fear of homosexuals? Who is kinding who?

3rd If he can wear that tee shirt then there is nothing wrong with a tee shirt thats anti homosexual and not be considered as a hate crime.

NursingGuy - Jesus may not be a homophobe, but the Bible clearly indicates he considers homosexuality a sin in His eyes.

Not only did your Jesus never mention gays or homosexuality, but he was likely gay himself since he never married, really loved John, and made John a part of his family before Jesus died.

Ironic that all these homophobic bible-thumpers have been worshiping a gay dude.

Why is it that we are always debating the merits of sexuality. Again, Lincoln was a Conservative Republican, was a white, poor, lumberjack. Now, why in hell would he want to go to War against his own country, over little Black Boys and Girls and their slave parents. Holy crap, people, read history, all this is about is the rights of a minority. Holy crap, gays are sure as hell a minority, and kids are bullied every damn day, because some parents are so damn disgustingly ignorant. And gay kids kill themselves because of it. And we still have crazy people ranting and raving a spewing bigoted crap than has nothing to do with civil rights. The judge was correct, I just hope that insurance companies get smart enough to put gay harassment exclusionary clauses in the contracts, so administrators have to back their mouth with cash, and the same goes for you snake oil charlatans that call yourself a man of god, yeah right, how tough will you look when the judge takes your under ware and your house.

Exactly what is the difference between people who hate homosexuals and those that hate people of faith? It seems both are cut of the same cloth.

Sexual orientation is innate. Faith is a choice. Big difference.

But you have to remember that most atheists are liberal left wingers. They live in their own pink pixie-dusted fairytale utopia seen through rose colored glasses.

Pink pixie dust fairy tale utopia?

Yeah, this is coming from someone who believes in magic sky wizards, virgin births, talking snakes, rib women, verbalizing enflamed shrubs, people who can levitate on water, and the dead rising.

There is greater evidence of bigfoot, santa claus or the easter bunny than there is for christianity.

Love the believer, hate the belief.

Lol, you kids and your fantasy books.

Maybe the godbots here can answer me a question:

What makes you think I have to, or ought to, respect your beliefs? I don't care what you believe, really. You could believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, fine. You could believe in God, YHWH, Allah, Pi, whatever. I don't care.

What I care about is your actions, and how you treat others, and what you try to put into law. I never respected your beliefs, just as most (in fact, probably all) don't respect mine. And the thing is, beliefs should not be "respected" to the point that they are never questioned, never challenged, never insulted. I'll insult people, why not their beliefs? Why should I give a damn if I hurt your feelings when you're trying to push kids into suicidal tendencies just for being "different"? (Hint: they're not "different," they're just not what you think of as "normal") Why should I care how faithfully or strongly you believe when you attempt to stunt women's choices in health care? Why should I care that I insult your beliefs when your beliefs apparently lead you to do completely stupid and horrible things?

I say, @!$%# your beliefs. Tolerance extends to people. You want to be a bigot, fine, be a bigot. Just know that you have no right to not be offended, either, and I WILL offend you, I will find a way. The answer to bad speech is more speech.

Oh, and to those questioning about whether teachers have freedom of speech: only when not on the clock and not in a school setting. Some districts have even gone as far as regulating behavior outside the school. Some teachers have been fired because they were seen slightly drunk by some parents outside of school. Nevermind that it was the weekend and they were enjoying their rights just like anyone else. But, when in their official capacity, they are a representative of the government and, therefore, must not engage in anything remotely considered religious (unless it's a religious studies course, or involves history of religion or current events; also, this only applies to public school teachers). They cannot be seen to give favor to one religion over another, and must be secular in their approach (secular meaning showing no favor to one religion over others, or religion over non-religion, or non-religion over religion). So no, atheist teachers cannot go around "preaching atheism" (protip: we don't have proselytizing events like you, and we don't have preachers). They also cannot discuss creationism (though many do anyways, to the detriment of real science education) because creationism is a purely religious concept and not founded in science whatsoever.

So, in short, what makes you think you're so @!$%#ing special that you can stomp all over everyone else, but can cry victim when your beliefs are "under attack?" Who the hell do you think you are?

OK PABLO...LETS GET INTO THIS...

Do you really believe what you say here ... or do you know that you are full of it and just like to get a rise out of people and say whatever you can to do so???

I think your whole belief system is a joke... and I dont even know you... but I am going to take a guess at what you believe.

you believe 20 billions years ago there was a big bang...

(what banged? no one knows, why it banged? no one knows)

It created a bunch of hydrogen and some helium... and then those elements found a way to evolve into all the elements we have today... (how? we dont know) (you might try to say fusion in the stars... but we can't fuse past Iron)

They you have to have these elements form into stars and planets... which we have no evidence for and not even a working model or predicion how it could happen... (boils gas law would prevent the elements from collecting togethere because the heat would drive them away from each other)

THEN after all these unknowns happen you have to somehow get life to come about from NON LIVING MATERIAL!

I could give you are rock for 20 billion years and come back and it will still always be a ROCK...

Then after this miracle form of life comes into existance, if needs to have something to eat... but there are no plants around ... so it dies... haha

Then assuming that you get past all these huge problems, you need to find a way to prove that macro evolution works...

Please show me any productive mutations that have ADDED NEW INFOMATION into the DNA of a species... PLEASE SHOW ME 1 INSTANCE...

I am sorry but you belive a fairy tale that has been written by men for ignorant men like yourself.

THEN if you somehow get past all of these huge problems, you still cant tell me how you tell what is right or wrong...

if there is no objective law giver(God) who says what is right or wrong, then your view on killing Jews is no more valid that Hitlers view... ior my view... it is all subjective...

Its just like going to a movie and giving it a thumbs up or a thumbs down... there is no absolute truth or right or wrong... its just your opinion.

so you can NEVER AGAIN say that you are right and someone else is wrong about ANYTHING...

and then there is no such thing as Truth... it makes everything subjective..

I can drive a MAC truck through the holes in your logic. and I am just pointing out a few, for fun and in hopes that you will think about what it around you...

and here is my closing though... what if you are wrong about everything? Just use that brain of yours...which is made us of millions of cells that work together perfectly and was designed by a very intelligent God to search for TRUTH.

/rant

Renee: I have the right to judge you. You claim to be a christian and therefore, God gives me that right!

I don't know you, but if your words are a true indicator of your heart, I pity you... but more, I pity anyone who loves you. You sound like a very cruel, unforgiving person, and you also sound like you would quickly, easily, and deeply hurt someone that loved you if they stepped outside your small acceptable world. You will only hurt yourself in the end.

But since you will harshly judge me and anyone you come in contact with, watch your paperwork... even small mistakes get court cases thrown out every day.

Jesus was not gay. The non-canonized gospels (Phillip, Thomas, Mary Magdalene, et al) clearly show that Jesus had a relationship with Mary Magdalene and even called her "Beloved". We have to remember that when looking at the bible (New Testament), we are looking at the books accepted by a group of people well after the fact as the orthodox version of the truth and that much of the other gnostic texts used by early Christians in describing the life and teachings of Christ were destroyed.

In Phillip it reads:

And the companion of the [...] Mary Magdalene. [...] loved her more than all the disciples, and used to kiss her often on her [...]. The rest of the disciples [...]. They said to him "Why do you love her more than all of us?" The Savior answered and said to them, "Why do I not love you like her? When a blind man and one who sees are both together in darkness, they are no different from one another. When the light comes, then he who sees will see the light, and he who is blind will remain in darkness."

Phillip also reads:

Do not fear the essence of the flesh, nor love it. If thou fear it, it will become thy master; if thou love it, it will devour thee and strangle thee.

Take from that what you will.

Dont ban Pablo.... He just got schooled! He was finally going to see the light!

Lu-1328381 - Jesus was not gay.

Strange that a Jewish rabbi like Jesus would violate the Talmudic obligation to marry a woman. Even stranger that he hung around hunky guys all the time, and is said to have really loved John......even clutching John to his bosom at the last supper. Stranger still that just before Jesus died, he told his mother that John was part of the family, and told John that Mary was now his mother.....sounds a lot like in-laws, doesn't it?

Looks like homophobic Christians have been worshiping a gay dude all along. In fact, some bible scholars have now accepted that Jesus was in fact gay:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2012/apr/20/was-jesus-gay-probably

Damn Sally. I was really hoping to be around when Pablo ripped into that annoyingly trite screed from the latest evolution-denying godpologist.

Seeing as how I've already engaged this subject many times, Jonathan, I'd suggest you read up more on evolutionary theory, and show a little more imagination. And learn some more about genetics. And information theory. And chemistry, physics, etc.

In fact, you should go back to school and slap every single one of your teachers on the face for allowing you to continue your "education" with such stupidity. I'd do it myself, but I have no responsibility to you, and frankly, your insipid inanity bores me.

Thank you, Sally! That Pablo guy needed a psychiatrist, not someone to help him see the light.

Now please, keep an eye on the ones that say Jesus was gay! So ignorant and disrespectful! People so far gone!

Janstince

Damn Sally. I was really hoping to be around when Pablo ripped into that annoyingly trite screed from the latest evolution-denying godpologist.

Seeing as how I've already engaged this subject many times, Jonathan, I'd suggest you read up more on evolutionary theory, and show a little more imagination. And learn some more about genetics. And information theory. And chemistry, physics, etc.

In fact, you should go back to school and slap every single one of your teachers on the face for allowing you to continue your "education" with such stupidity. I'd do it myself, but I have no responsibility to you, and frankly, your insipid inanity bores me.

Its not just education but common sense. I think what he wrote is sound. Your side of a naturalistic world view , of things coming into existence, and becoming so complex that here we are today. Funny how the entire Evolutionary process ended with humans, I was really looking forward to see what man was going to evolve into next.. Maybe we will mutate into little green men with fly saucers so we can go examine all the billions of other worlds behind us :D I have a lot of genetic information to gain to get me to turn green and send telepathic signals to my fellow greenies. Im not holding my breath though for this to happen.

Andrew-726465

1st. Bible clearly states homosexuality (man laying with another man) (woman laying with another woman) as being an abomination. Last time I checked that ment bad not good.

2nd. A phobia is a fear of something. Hpmophobia = fear of homosexuals? Who is kinding who?

3rd If he can wear that tee shirt then there is nothing wrong with a tee shirt thats anti homosexual and not be considered as a hate crime.

Thats a lovely double standard they like to set. They call people homophobes because they believe in marriage of man and woman. Or they call them homophobes because they find it sickening for a man to be with man, woman to be with woman. I dunno about you but I find it very sickening to think of a hairy butt and a guys penis going into it, and having poo poo smell on every thing. And Im the one who needs to learn to accept the lifestyle ? Yuck.. The people I accept yes, I love them yes, but their lifestyle I dont accept. I dont hate them, I work with them, hang out with them after work at glory days. Have been complemented by them of my very blue sexy eyes, package and butt, and I told them im flattered, but not interested. No hate, no aggression from me. Nothing homophobic at all.

I believe in Pro Marriage, man woman, I believe in man being with women to pro create. I dont fear anything , I was in the marines dang on it :D hahaha

Crossfit -

Are you in the running for the next "Evilutionary" award? Go ahead and call Ken Ham, I'm sure he gives a @!$%#.

For any true follower of the word you would know the following.

The savior would probably have a couple responses. The first would be to tell you to worry about yourself and judge not because, you too, have things that aren't right with the creator that you should be working on. Probably you would be told this in a gentle manner by way of a parable.

A second response from the master would be to look upon the young man and pierce his heart with the truth of the matter. The young fella would either repent and forsake the sin or he might find it a bit warm where he was going.

It really is quite simple. It's just like selling coffee in the foyer of the church. Scripture indicates by the turning over of the money changers tables that this type of business in the fathers house was unacceptable. You can't sell a goat for food to sustain a family but you can sell beverages containing stimulants that aren't needed or good for the body in the fathers house?

It is also clear that keeping appetites in check and multiplying on the face of the earth were not suggestions. If it was Adam and Steve in the story it might be plausible but it wasn't.

The coffee pots would be on the floor and this kids shirt would be sopping up the java puddles. And I likely would be chastised for my bad attitude and passing judgment.

Thats a lovely double standard they like to set. They call people homophobes because they believe in marriage of man and woman. Or they call them homophobes because they find it sickening for a man to be with man, woman to be with woman. I dunno about you but I find it very sickening to think of a hairy butt and a guys penis going into it, and having poo poo smell on every thing. And Im the one who needs to learn to accept the lifestyle ? Yuck.

This is nothing personal on you, I am just using your wording to kind of illustrate a question I have about a lot of people who rail against homosexuality. (I realize that is not your intention, and I am using your statement out of context just as an example of wording/scenario.) Why is it that so many people who are so condemning of homosexuality always use the male example? It's always Adam and Steve; why is it never Lilith and Eve?

Rene, good point. There could be a few reasons. From a male point of view maybe it seems awkward for 2 guys with each other, because im a guy. Even though i still see it awkward for 2 women, i feel it even more for men. I wonder if a woman feels stronger awkward feeling with another woman, as to thinking about 2 guys together.

What seems kinda silly to me, is that men put their penis into a guys butt.. ( not say this is always that case, but a lot do ) A guy can do the same exact thing to a woman. A guy can give oral to another guy, just as could a woman. Same thing for women, a woman straps on a dildo and rams the other woman. Is this silly ? Its simulating what a man does. Man has his own permanent Dildo, but a woman chooses to use a fake one with another woman. A guy can give oral to a woman just as woman can give it to a woman. Its all quite bizzare.

skrekk

Strange that a Jewish rabbi like Jesus would violate the Talmudic obligation to marry a woman.(etc)

Assuming that Jesus did not marry a woman is your problem, just like assuming that the only words he ever said were the words recorded in the Bible (he must have been utterly silent much of the rest of his years, that or terribly redundant, if all he ever said were the words attributed to him in the New Testament). It's a senseless assumption that he did not marry, especially when there are other historic documents that show there was a relationship between he and Mary Magdalene and that it was a loving relationship between a man and a woman. Ignoring those historic documents is as bad as ignoring ice core samples.

As for the rest of what you wrote, I wonder if you are inhuman, by your statements. Do you not have friends who are close to you that you are not sexually active with? If one of your friends, your dearest, was accused of some horrible crime and about to be put to death unjustly, would you not weep over him? Would he not perhaps clutch you to himself in a brotherly way to comfort you both and tell you that he accepts his fate and ask you as his dearest friend to become his mother's son, so that you might take care of her in her old age as he would, standing in his stead? Is every man who ever hugged another man gay? I think not. There have throughout history been plenty of men who loved each other without it being sexual.

This is wishful thinking from the homosexual community, trying to make Jesus gay and trying to make the exclusion of words specifically against homosexual acts mean that he supported homosexuality. By those same standards, just because he didn't talk specifically about necrophiliacs, dendrophiliacs, pedophiles and those who do it with animals, it must be alright Biblically speaking for the living to lie with the dead, the human to lie with the tree, the adult to lie with the child, and man to lie with beast. People who do these things are judged by the laws of our society--not by the laws of 2000 years ago, but by the social mores of now. Homosexuals are attempting to change the social mores so that their acts are tolerated, but whether or not that needs to happen, they certainly aren't going to do it by editing the history books or demeaning others for their faith. Whether or not you believe a person's faith is wrong is beside the point, it is their faith, not yours, and they must live by it otherwise they are unfaithful, so you hear a lot about, "love the sinner, hate the sin," where Christianity is concerned.

Jesus did specifically state, "Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine , and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock." If we're only going by his words recorded in the Bible, then we can only do as he said to do, and as he never spoke of man marrying man but every time he spoke of marriage it was in the sense of one man and one woman and anything else was adultery, that must mean that marriage is only for man and woman, and as he never spoke of man lying with man being right and whenever he spoke of sexual relations, it was between man and woman, that must mean that man is not supposed to lie with man and woman is not supposed to lie with woman, so we should not do that if we are following the teachings of Christ, and as he did speak of the laws of God as being good, that he was not there to destroy the law but to fulfill it, we should follow those laws of old as well as his teachings, not throw out everything that came before him because it is inconvenient to us.

By the way, Jesus also said, "Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment, than for that city," meaning those who don't receive the disciples and hear their words would be judged more harshly than those of Sodom and Gomorrah. So, if one believes that the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah were sexual in nature and even specifically homosexual, as the scriptures allude to, then Jesus firmly believed that even after being destroyed by fire and brimstone, the people of those places would still be judged for their acts. If they aren't sins, then why judge them?

This is a general statement showing how very harmful and destructive religion is.

Religion put all of Europe in the Dark Ages!
http://see_the_truth.webs.com/Inquisition.html

The Dark Ages never ended! The majority of the people in the U.S. are religious! The majority of people in power and control in the U.S, are religious! Church and State are "NOT" separated here!!
History repeats itself!
IN OTHER WORDS, RELIGION IS SLOWLY AND INSIDIOUSLY PUTTING THE U.S. IN ANOTHER DARK AGES AND PEOPLE DON'T EVEN REALIZE IT!!

We are using up all our resources on the planet and polluting the whole planet at the same time because of O-V-E-R-P-O-P-U-L-A-T-I-O-N caused by religion and its policies of- anti-abortion, anti-condom, anti-gay, right-to-life, be fruitful and multiply, etc, etc, etc...

Religion is a horrible, toxic, infectious, viral, addictive, mental drug and poison that's extremely harmful and destructive!!

Religion causes ignorance, delusion, prejudice, abuse, hatred, fighting, bloodshed, destruction, killing and war!!

Religion stops the advancement of science, technology, learning and progress for the whole human race!! Look what religion did to Galileo, now Darwin, Hawking, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc...

For those of you who don't know, Bush is an extreme, ultra conservative, Christian fundamentalist!! The 8 years of deep wound damage that Bush, Cheney and religion did to the United States is M-A-S-S-I-V-E!!!
It's going to take many, many, many years to recover from the massive deep wound damage that Bush, Cheney and religion did to the U.S. and the world with their "Holy-Oil-War", etc, etc...!!

It will take Obama, or anyone else, a minimum of 8 years to start getting the U.S. back on track from the massive mess that Bush, Cheney and religion caused!! Deep wounds take a long time to heal!!

I'M VERY VERY SERIOUS! THE U.S. AND THE WORLD ARE IN MAJOR SERIOUS TROUBLE IF WE CAN'T FIND SOME WAY TO STAMP OUT RELIGION!!

These links will show you how foolish, harmful and destructive religion is! Please take a look at these awesome links. I promise you'll learn something!-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kla-BcN8u8Q&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ&feature=related
http://www.boreme.com/posting.php?id=12236&page=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkXOwBIRX7Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUj8hg5CoSw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M114bK4qaiM&feature=related
http://godisimaginary.com/
http://jesusneverexisted.com/
http://www.1001biblecontradictions.com/

JOANY,

if you really believe 1/2 of what you just wrote, you are a very dangerous person!... you might want to join the ranks with Hitler and start killing innocent people...

WOW... and you think you are good and moral?

Yes, there are bad things that have been done in the name of religion... but that had nothing to do with what Jesus actually said (if you ever take the time to read the bible and understand it)

I could post up the stats for what has been done by atheists and all the killings... NOW THAT IS SOME SCARY STUFF!!! way worse than religious people... (INCLUDING MUSLIMS)

Jonathan-1728701

JOANY,

if you really believe 1/2 of what you just wrote, you are a very dangerous person!... you might want to join the ranks with Hitler and start killing innocent people...

WOW... and you think you are good and moral?

Yes, there are bad things that have been done in the name of religion... but that had nothing to do with what Jesus actually said (if you ever take the time to read the bible and understand it)

I could post up the stats for what has been done by atheists and all the killings... NOW THAT IS SOME SCARY STUFF!!! way worse than religious people... (INCLUDING MUSLIMS)

I have stated this myself in other threads about Atheism killing more then any other religion. The response you get is this.. Atheism, isnt a religion, and they are not killing in the name of anything.

Its really absurd that they can make this statement, because Atheism is the belief that there is No God. Regardless of how much information or evidence for God there is, they will deny the existence of God. So their belief is one with out God. So they still are labeled atheists, and if you Look up history of Mass killings it was done by atheists. True people were not killed in the name of atheism, but never the less, more people were killing by atheists then people with religion. That is a fact.

very true Crossfit!

even though they say atheism is not a religion, I believe that it is! They have their own set of high priests... (Dick Dawkins, The Amazing Atheist, etc) They have their religious books (evolution "science" books that try to give reason to how we got here)

but when you get through all the BS of evolution, it is 100% faith based... there is no real evidence to support the full evolution theory...

wild huh?

even dawkins has curbed a little into admitting a very very slight chance of a God being out there, but he still says hes an atheist , who does allow the possibility of a God.

I agree, their position about the lawsuit is inherrently laughable. Basically the implicit logic behind their statement is "We will define a policy and resolutely/forcefully stick to it until you tell us you're going to sue - at which time we'll change the policy to avoid legal costs." Brilliant position to take - sets them up for future legal escalation at the drop of a dime. They would have been better to not comment or to simply state their intention to abide with the judges ruling.

More likely what they meant by "not wanting it to go to court" was they were going to pressure everyone involved to keep quiet (while not changing anything) through intimidation. (some) Schools tend to act in a pseudo-government role and bluff their way into doing things they think they can get away with because, let's face it, most people they bully don't have the knowledge or ability to fight back. Personally I might not think the shirt is appropriate for a school setting (I stand by the concept of school uniforms) but kudos to him and his family for standing up for their rights.

What is the difference between a shirt that says Jesus is not a homophobe and one the says Jesus is love. Would both of these now be acceptable. It seems like a fair comparison. You can't unfocus on the Jesus part regardless of the message behind either. the LGBT should not be able to hijack a religious icon and use it as an Anti-bias advertisement and call it protected speech if you won't allow a different view of a similar message. I can't wait for the Jesus was a homophobe t-shirts. It would just be the other side of the coin.

For all of you who (somehow) doubt that Jesus sees homosexualism as a sin, here ya go. This is just one of many, by the way...

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

Personally I might not think the shirt is appropriate for a school setting (I stand by the concept of school uniforms) but kudos to him and his family for standing up for their rights.

I appreciate your opinion, but our success as a nation did not come from uniformity or standards...it came from the absolute defense of individuality. Uniforms are about as anti-American as a nazi uniform.

The liberties bestowed upon us as adults are not limited to adults. American children are Americans, too. They are ordained with the same liberties and responsibilities as the rest of us because they, along with every other citizen, grant this government the power to govern. Minors are simply wards of their parents until the age of consent, and are not granted voting powers or the ability to enter contracts because those abilities are deferred to their parents until such time that they turn 18.

This kid has thoroughly demonstrated that no will of the government or government officials may even erode the liberty of a gay teenager...who might otherwise be seen as powerless were it not for his birthright as an American citizen.

Jesus isn't the writer, nor did he provide the words, for the Letters to the Corinthians.

For all of who who (somehow) doubt that Jesus sees homosexualism as a sin, here ya go. This is just one of many, by the way...

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

So...where's the New Testament quote where Jesus condemns homosexuality as immoral? And for that matter, are you saying that you hold one "sin" higher than another?? I'm pretty sure that's a sin, too.

Let me see if I can find that for you....I'm doing ten things at once, lol. As far as your second question, I personally don't hold any one sin "higher" than another. I was just finding the reference for those who asked.

What is the difference between a shirt that says Jesus is not a homophobe and one the says Jesus is love. Would both of these now be acceptable. It seems like a fair comparison. You can't unfocus on the Jesus part regardless of the message behind either.

A - Nobody has ever to my knowledge been prevented from wearing a "Jesus is love" t-shirt.

B - Where did you get the idea someone would have a problem with that?

the LGBT should not be able to hijack a religious icon and use it as an Anti-bias advertisement and call it protected speech if you won't allow a different view of a similar message.

C - Jesus is not your own personal religious icon. There are thousands of permeations of the story of Jesus that have surfaced for thousands of years. People living 100 years ago could full well say you've hijacked their religion.

D - You don't have the market cornered on religion. We, the gays, have churches too. In fact, even supposedly traditional churches believe in equality for GLBT people. I myself attend my local MCC church.

I can't wait for the Jesus was a homophobe t-shirts. It would just be the other side of the coin.

Hate to tell you...it's not. What you're suggesting is hate speech. This nation was built on the principle that religious beliefs can differ, but that the beliefs of one cannot erode the other. I.E., you can't make a hateful statement in order to make an argument against my beliefs. You may express your beliefs publicly in a peaceable manner, but any action to assemble or demonstrate in a manner which is disruptive to me or the public is not acceptable.

This is from the New Testament...

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Let me see if I can find that for you....I'm doing ten things at once, lol. As far as your second question, I personally don't hold any one sin "higher" than another. I was just finding the reference for those who asked.

I would argue that's not true, and that you also go against Jesus' teachings to not judge. It is not the duty of a Christian to judge, it is their calling from God to help another man to live without sin through encouragement and love.

Coming on here to decry homosexuals is not what Jesus would have done.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Which translation?

LOLOL I'm not here judging anyone, dude. I'm here answering those who asked where in the Bible it mentioned homosexuality as a sin. That's it.

I'm not sure which translation, but here's another one...

Romans 1:26-27 ESV / 21 helpful votes

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

FYI -- that passage is about the most reworked passage in the entire New Testament. The oldest translation (King James) makes no reference to homosexuality. Further, both the King James and newer translations conveniently utilize the greek transalation for eunich, rather then the Latin translation which literally describes men who have had their genitalia removed.

SB80 and those who are quoting the NT... Look at the verses where Jesus specifically speaks. Does He Himself speak on homosexuality? If He doesn't, you need to say so and differentiate where He and the Apostle Paul speak.

LOL seems like I get the same answers from everyone here. Oh well, have a nice day!

Romans 1:26-27 ESV / 21 helpful votes

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

The latin texts actually describe men who have exchanged relations with their partners (or wives if you want to push it) with men, and women who have done the same with women. This comes from the belief at the time that having extramarital relations with someone of the same sex was not an offense to the bonds of marriage. It never actually condemned same sex relations.

SB80

LOL seems like I get the same answers from everyone here. Oh well, have a nice day!

Sorry SB80, but neither Corinthians, nor Romans were written by Jesus, nor are they quotes of Jesus. These letters were written by Paul, based on his own bias and bigotry. They do not reflect the teachings of Jesus. Nowhere in the Gospels is Jesus quoting as stating homosexuality is a sin. For those of you who are willing to quote the Old Testament, which are not the words of Jesus, or letters from Paul, you are not being true "christians".

". For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations"

And this actually support homosexuality. If as modern understanding has it, sexuality is a innate characteristic with which one is born, then a according to the above verse, a homosexual giving up the natural sexuality with which they were born and have sex with the opposite sex would as much a sin as a heterosexual having sex with the same sex. The key phrase here is natural relations.

For all of you who (somehow) doubt that Jesus sees homosexualism as a sin, here ya go. This is just one of many, by the way...

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

Exactly what part of that stupid quote even remotely references homosexuality?

SB80:

Paul was a reactionary homophobe. If the council of Nicea were not a bunch of the same reactionary, misogynistic, patriarchal morons his dreck would NEVER have made the cut. Christianity was a MATRIARCHAL structure until THESE JERKS destroyed EVERYTHING JESUS SAID.

For all of you who (somehow) doubt that Jesus sees homosexualism as a sin, here ya go. This is just one of many, by the way...

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

A. what does this have to do with homosexuality?

B. this was written in paul's letter to the corinthians...not said by Jesus

LOL seems like I get the same answers from everyone here.

Yes! Because you are simply cutting and pasting passages of the bible which you do not understand. Dustin, Pablo and others have an understanding of the history of the bible and the accurate translations of the passages you reference.

Homosexuality may or may not be a choice, that has yet to be proven.

Religion is a choice as their is no complete proof that any belief is true.

One person's choice should not trump another. If you feel one person's choice is wrong then ignore it. Just because you don't like it isn't a violation of your rights, it's proof that you need to find something better to do than purposefully sticking you nose into other's people business to feel better about yourself. These choices can exist together but only without selfishness and arrogance. Sorry but if you feel like your marriage is ruined because two gay people got married, then you have a very weak relationship.

The Bible is not proof of anything. It is just a manuscript humans have molded and deciphered into what they want it to be so they could pick and choose what they want to follow. As long as the passage doesn't impede their own lives, they have no problem trying to impose it on others. All you have to do is look at the Catholic church and see how much they have added to the Bible in procedures and control. If the Bible is actually the truth, anyone who actually believes and honors the Pope for what he is should get ready for a very warm place after they go. He is the ultimate symbol for man's misuse of religion.

I love it SB80, you provide everything requested in black and white, and they still come up with some BS to try and dance around it. When closed minds are made up, it is a waste of time.

I was very glad to see someone actually do the leg work and find these passages, thank you.

Pablo, Dustin: Jesus confirmed the original intention of God about how sexual relationships should be shared.

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female, ⁵ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? ⁶ So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”( Mathew 19:4-6)

So would the court and the school district also allow messages like "God hates fags"? Or their interpretation of freedom of self-expression is one-sided?

Let me list some examples of Mosaic Law:

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14) OUCH to all uncircumsised men!!

"Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people." (Exodus 31:14) Hmmm...did you realize that SATURDAY is the sabbath? If you work on Saturday in any way, SHAME ON YOU!!

"And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you:" (Leviticus 11:10) So, all you good Christians better never put a bite of shrimp or lobster into your mouth. YUCK!! Hmmm...God forbids seafood. Therefore, God forbids Red Lobster. Oh, the atrocities. Let's all be good Christians and burn down all the Red Lobsters in the name of God (satyr for all you idiots who would take this out of context...not making threats)

"And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be clovenfooted, yet he cheweth not the cud; he is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7) You ate WHAT for Easter. Surely, your table is an abomination before God.

"Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shalt not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shalt not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woollen come upon thee." (Leviticus 19:19) So much for fashion!! NO more of those home gardens. No mingling of seeds!!

If you are going to intepret the bible literally, then do it "religiously" (pun intended). You are sinner if you disobey anything I have mentioned. Sin is sin...God say "bad Christian, bad Christian!! Repent oh, ye, unfaithful!!"

Now...seriously....if you were to know anything about context, you would understand that this book of the Bible was part of the covenant of God with the Isrealites. Furthermore,

"

Historians tell us that many Canaanites and Egyptians worshipped a goddess of love and fertility called Astarte or Ishtar. Within her temples were special priests called assinu, who were deemed to have special powers. Physical contact with the assinu was believed to ward off evil and promote good luck. These priests were, in effect, living good luck charms, and worshipers would often ritually touch them as part of their worship practices. Sexual intercourse was considered especially effective for gaining the goddess’s favor, because the male worshiper was offering his greatest possession, semen (which was thought to be the essence of life), to the goddess through her priests. Depositing semen in the body of a priest of the goddess was believed to guarantee one’s immortality. Similar cultic sexual practices flourished in connection with many other ancient pagan deities. (See note 3.)

This is what was going on in Canaan and Egypt at the time the Levitical rules were announced — homosexual temple prostitution. And as already noted, Leviticus 18 and 20 specifically say they were written to address pagan religious practices. Leviticus 18 begins with the admonition, “You shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, where I am bringing you.” (18:3) Chapter 20 is even more specific, beginning with an injunction against the pagan practices associated with a god named Molech. And both chapters include long lists of sexual practices common in the cultic rituals we mentioned above. However, neither of them speaks to the question of whether two people of the same sex can live in loving relationship with the blessing of God."

Les Mcsparrin: You obviously don't know the bible well enough to comment on this matter. From historical perspective you may be correct. But christians are not under mosaic law anymore. We are under the new covenant with Christ. So stop calling christians hypocrites when you try to project old laws onto new beings in Christ. Did not Christ's death mean nothing ( Hebrews 10:9)? What good are the old laws if they only lead to death because everyone has sinned ( Romans 3:24)?

So, all you good Christians better never put a bite of shrimp or lobster into your mouth. YUCK!! Hmmm...God forbids seafood. Therefore, God forbids Red Lobster. Oh, the atrocities. Let's all be good Christians and burn down all the Red Lobsters in the name of God (satyr for all you idiots who would take this out of context...not making threats)

Have you never read Acts 10:11-16? If you haven't, it just shows you how little you know about the bible.

@Kris

It sounds like they were given every opportunity to rectify this misconduct but instead chose to double-down on it.

Before or after they didn't let them know they were being sued? Calling this decision justice begs the
question by assuming Couch was unjustly prohibited, or that regardless of content, all students at school are allowed to wear any T-shirt they please. What religious or biological basis does he have for making such a claim? Last time I checked, there wasn't a passage of scripture in support of homosexuality or a gay gene.

Allowing a student to wear a T-shirt on “self identification”, for self affirmation of their self identified sexual orientation, is about the same as letting a person write themselves a marijuana prescription for self identified glaucoma from smoking too much weed.

Are they saying they'd have magically changed their minds if threatened with a lawsuit?

Two wrongs don't make a right and hypocritical doublespeak, that affords luxuries to the student, while stripping away that courtesy from the high school, is more indicative of cowardice rather than bravery.

Well, some would argue that you shouldn't have to be threatened with a lawsuit in order to stop discrimination when you see it.

On the basis of what? The immutability of the hypothalums' of dead male homosexual aid's victims or immutable fact that homosexuality has no functional purpose, and is idealogically rather than biologically based. You keep arguing with yourself on that one.

@Les

Again, I warn every man: If you allow yourselves to be circumcised, you must follow all the law. If you try to be made right with God through the law, your life with Christ is over—you have left God's grace. Galatians 5:3-4

I'm merely bringing that passage to your attention as you, like other atheist, homosexual supporters, and skeptics suffer from "Cinco-inhibit-itis", that is the seeming inability to proceed further than the first five books of the old testament. Ouch! Tell me, am I also supposed to suffocate and starve myself on Saturday? Eating and breathing are certainly work. God was in essence telling them to take a day off, not perform no work at all. As someone also pointed you to a passage in acts, I won't deal with your begging the question, by assuming all Christians even go to Red lobster or eat any kind of seafood.

Also, how would the abolishing of food restrictions do away with Sexual Prohibitions? If God relaxed on one, on what other than assumption, substantiates He is lenient in other areas? Incest? Child Sacrifice? Lying?

However, neither of them speaks to the question of whether two people of the same sex can live in loving relationship with the blessing of God."

Also assuming that all homosexual relationships regardless of particulars are loving, or that God has a relaxed attitude concerning sex. Heterosexuals aren't under the full blessing of God if they're in a sex relationship outside of marriage. If all fornicators don't inherit God's kingdom(1Cor 6:9-11), He judges them(Heb 13:4), and they end up in the lake of fire.(Rev 21:8) Where does God draw the line at sexual orientation when He created males and females and homosexual couples can't procreate?

Heterosexuals aren't under the full blessing of God if they're in a sex relationship outside of marriage.

Then let them get married.

Agreed the shirt is correct. But as a christian, I don't hate "gays" and would hope my fellow christians feel the same. Jesue would come sit with all his children if he were here on earth and would not discriminate. However, he would correct them in their ways. Be certain of that. Study the truth for yourself.

BS!

@thfan - I see you're exercising your 1st Amendment rights; so here I go..... As a christian, I personally feel that Jesus does not hate in any way shape or form. Also, as a christian, I am not going to judge ANYBODY because I myself am a sinner and that's all a part of being human. "Let he who has not sinned, cast the first stone"!! Few words could ever be as truthful as that. Though christians view homosexuality as a sin, based on bible teachings, it does not give them the right to judge homosexuals. That, I think; would be quite hypocritical!!!! I have close friends and family members who are homosexuals and I treat them as I would anybody else. PLEASE DON'T GO THINKING THAT BECAUSE A PERSON CHOSES A RELIGION, THAT THAT PERSON IS OUT THERE TO CONVERT THE WORLD. That is not what I do and I won't push what I believe on anybody else!! My pastor once said to be very careful of the "born again christians" as they are the most often hypocrits who will try to force religion down EVERYBODY's throats. I agree with him.

Jesus also told the women at the well, who was engaging with multiple partners, "Go and sin no more"

choirboy:

Yeah, and at the time he was also associating with a Samaritan woman, which Jewish males at the time found inconceivable, somewhat akin for Christian fundamentalists to associate w/ gays. Besides, equating that one woman and her history with the whole LGBT society is quite a stretch. Instead, focus on Jesus' words like, 'When you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.'

Lovebnamom: so in other words your pastor tells his congregation not to force heaven on people. Tell me what is the difference also between Christians that give an opinion about homosexuallity, and unbelievers calling Christians haters, it all sin to me. But then again giving an opinion about something does not make one a hater or being judgemental. Seems to me there is a lot more hatred coming from the other side, and I have been on these posts for a long time and see plenty of it from the left. You tend to pick an choose what you believe about the bible dont you think??? I'll never forget the story about the man that had a dream about another man in hell, he was going up an down in the flames picking people up an another man asked him what he was doing, the man told him, I am looking for the priest that told me I was right with God. And btw. if we dont tell people about God and that they can have a relationship with him, WHO WILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus also told the women at the well, who was engaging with multiple partners, "Go and sin no more"

She didn't have multiple partners at the same time. While the implication based on what 13th century male translators give us, is that Jesus is speaking of her multiple partners. The reality is, he could have been speaking of anything.

He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

¹⁷ “I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband.¹⁸ The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

You state "giving an opinion...is not judgemental." Guess what? An opinion is defined as a judgement. Jesus said something about not judging others, and loving your neighbor and yourself. Love God, follow the Golden Rule. If another man's behavior isn't harming anyone, then let him be.

@suseq1591 - My pastor did not tell his congregation to force any belief on anyone. He believed as I do, that to force religion is to turn someone even more against it and that one cannot force anyone to believe what they don't want to believe. I don't hide who I am and if someone questions me about my religious beliefs, I am more than happy to share. It's a matter of how you converse with someone, that determines how you will educate them. As for Christians having an opinion against homosexuality and non-believers calling us haters; there is a great difference. An opinion does not mean that one hates!!! I have many friends and even relatives who are gay, and I love them dearly. I don't tell them how they should or shouldn't be. My belief is directed at myself and how I choose to live my life. Not at someone else and how I feel they should live their lives. I do however, agree that there are many out there, that based on religious beliefs; are haters. I just don't happen to be one of them and when a comment goes out there that stereotypes so badly, I do get offended!!!

LoveBNamom: your pastor, your church and you are a welcome sight. Most churches preach how bad homosexuality is - most of them have never met a homosexual, and if they did, they probably ran screaming away. If there were homosexuals in their congregation, they would NEVER come out around them, or even say anything to defend their brothers and sisters - how sad that would be. Jesus said to "love one another as I have loved you." Yours is one of the few churches who is doing that - you should be commended.

It is reported that Jesus associated with Murderers as well but he did not condone their actions. Understand that there is a big difference between you and I talking to and being friends with murderers or homosexuals or any other group of people that have a characteristic that makes you feel uncomfortable and making the statement that how they behave is acceptable in your opinion.

Don’t confuse associate with condone.

Thank you debnran. That's why I chose this church. We actually have a gay couple that have come several times and have been welcomed with open arms. Although, I can see why christians are so sterotyped because I myself have met many that I would not want to hang out with!!!

1 corinthians 6:9 says do not be deceived neither the sexual immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor man who practice homosexuality will inherit the kingdom of God. why do you hate christians so much, is not us who condems this sin but is the word of God. and in the end is he who will judge you by his word

I don't agree that an Opinion is a Judgement call. I don't like Coca-cola. That's not a judgement. That's an opinion. Does that mean I think that Coke is bad and shouldn't exist? No. It just means I don't like it.

I have nothing against gays, but this case could open up a can of worms. We'll see what happens.

Njenn:

Study the truth for yourself. I agree. READ IT IN THE ORIGINAL and KEEP THE CRAPPY TRANSLATIONS OUT OF IT. Other than the ignorant homophone Paul, The Bible NEVER castigates homosexuality. That is a MIS-TRANSLATION and you are the one being deceived.

Pablo - Read the beginning of John. Christ is the only begotten Son of God and begotten before all ages (In the Beginning.) Also, Christ came not to replace the Law but to fulfill it. We are also to forgive those who sin against us. We are to shun those who sin and protect others from being sinned against. Christ told us to turn the other cheek but not to turn away when someone else is being beaten. (The parable of the Good Samaritan.) Christ came to bring back the lost sheep but remember he also said to shake the dust from your sandals of those towns that rejected you. and thus him. He came for those who would receive him and seek forgiveness and work to become closer to Him.

Unless the school had a written dress code banning the wearing of shirts with sexually explicit themes, there shouldn't have even been a discussion of this being an issue. The shirt isn't sexually explicit for that matter. Is it necessarily an infringement on his First Amendment rights to free speech? Well I guess it could be considered free expression. Personally I think the entire argument is @#$%^&* stupid. It's a T-shirt and it doesn't contain any form of vulgar language.

Now on a historical note concerning the bible. UNLESS it's a direct translation from the Hebrew Torah which is the first five books of the Old Testament, its sourcing is questionable at best. The only other option would be if it were from the bible used by the Koptic Church in Ethiopia. Both the Jewish Torah and the bible used by the Koptic church are in the original languages used at the time that they were written. With the level of corruption in the various kingdoms during the middle ages and rennaissance, any translation that has been made since that time has got to be suspect. As I told my mom, King James was excommunicated for funding the English translation of the bible that bears his name (hence the designation King James VERSION) as was Martin Luther for the German translation that he created. The Torah is painstakingly copied by hand on parchment and if a calligrapher makes as few as three mistakes on a single page, the entire page has to be restarted. The theory behind that requirement being that if the calligrapher isn't focused enough to be able to correctly transcribe a page without two or fewer errors, he needs to take a break and refocus because the word of God is too important to make mistakes on. Hebrew is NOT an easy language to learn. It is easy to make mistakes. The English interpretation of the bible says "Let not a witch live amongst you." while the original Hebrew text says "Let not a poisoner live amongst you." The difference is huge in meaning because one may be nothing more than someone learned in herbal medicine (a good thing) while the other could be a murderer (not usually considered a good thing.) The difference is simply a difference in pronunciation which in Hebrew can be as subtle a placing a dot in the wrong place. Seeing as most translaters were not native speakers of Hebrew (or more accurately Aramaic), the likelihood of errors was substantial.

While I may believe in tolerance, I have none for those who preach tolerance but don't act accordingly. I guess you could say that I'm intolerant of hypocrites. I have friends and relatives of all religions including a couple that worship Odin. I've also threatened to beat senseless a couple of twits who were harassing a Muslim coworker during his prayers. They have their religion and I have mine. When the end times come, we shall discover who was correct in their beliefs at that time. And if I'm wrong, I'll throw on my chain mail shirt, grab a sword or axe and sally forth into the fray to listen for the Valkyries' call. I wouldn't be too upset if Heaven consisted of sitting around a great hall, eating roast venison, drinking beer and singing songs. I suck at playing a musical instrument so the whole harp thing wouldn't be good.

My belief is directed at myself and how I choose to live my life. Not at someone else and how I feel they should live their lives. I

LoveBnamom: From your words alone, you will be judged by God. God did not make you to sit on your butt and do nothing while thousands of people are going into hell each day. For shame that you call yourself a christian when the whole purpose of Christianity is to tell people about Jesus. As a christian, I have the right to warn you if not to judge you, because the bible gives me that right.

The time will come when people will not listen to the truth. They will look for teachers who will tell them only what they want to hear. ⁴ They will not listen to the truth. Instead, they will listen to stories made up by men. ⁵ You must watch for all these things. Do not be afraid to suffer for our Lord. Preach the Good News from place to place. Do all the work you are to do.( 2 Timothy 4: 3-5)

If your pastor said all those things for that which you have written, such as NOT telling people about Christ, then FIND A NEW CHURCH. This pastor is not teaching the word of God. YOU are responsible for your own soul.

</body>

Where did Christ teach acceptance of homosexuality or any sexual practice or orientation? He said, "Go and sin no more", and, divorce and remarriage for any other reason than marital infidelity equates to adultury, but He also said:

"But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell." Matt 5:27-30

Bart Conner

And the shirt is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.

Those gay-hating "christians" aren't following the teachings of Christ at all.

---------------------------

The only problem I find with your statement is .... Not all that profess to be Christian are truly Christian.

Many think that if they know of Christ and are good to one another - they are going to heaven...Not So.

There are many "Christian" acting religions out there that are not Christian. Putting Christ in their name does not make them Christian. Examples are the Mormans, Jehova Witness, and several others.

Are they bad people - No. They do many good works for others. They are just mis-guided.

LoveBNamom - Not all Born-Again's are obnoxious. And yes, you are right if they are too over-zealous they just further the stereotype and drive those that may be searching, in the wrong direction.

Part of growing - is understanding your place. I am here to do what you described ... spread the message that Jesus loves you, plant a seed and not be obnoxious.

I am not here to drag anyone to Christ, but if you want to hear what he has done in my life, and why I believe he is Lord - let's have a coffee, a soda, or for that matter a beer. I was not told I could not enjoy those things. I was told not to overindulge.

You know what fundamentalist judgemental Christians? Gay people feel the need to force the issue of their sexuality, JUST BECAUSE OF YOU! If you would leave them alone, they would happily live their lives, free of hate and judging. YOU are the cause of them being in your face. Your bigotted, judgmental, rude and sanctimonious behavior has caused children to have to defend themselves in school against gay hating bullies. Are you proud? Yes, I am sure you are. It's also interesting to me that after years of going to chuch, I have realised that a lot of Christians know more about other peoples sex lives and more about bizarre sex practices than anybody else. Actually the first time I heard about "golden showers" was at church in a sermon! Gross! Leave gay people alone, they are not trying to make everybody gay, they are not trying to take over the world and force you into sodomy, they just want to live and be happy.

Real Christian people are a joy to be around and have a sense of peace about them. The majority of you are not like that all. I doubt if you even know a gay person personally and if you do you are so busy "hating the sin, loving the sinner" that you are difficult to be around because you give off an aura of smarmy sanctimoniousness.

"Keep in mind, this does not make something right or wrong"

I am so sick of hearing this statement from the religious community. Talk about a back handed insult. Basically its stating we will smile at your faces but we still think you are WRONG in how you were born.

religion = a bunch of crap fed to a bunch of idiots.

Everyone does wrong.

Yes, I suppose "I am sinning" right now. Well, thank god I don't believe in god. I am 100% straight, and I fully support the LBGT community - all of them, in pink frills and fluff alike - its their life, and as long as they are doing no harm, they are fine by me. but hey, if you support them, but still think they are wrong.. I suppose we can live with baby steps. In our lifetime it will be legal for the LBGT community to marry just like heterosexuals, just like black people were granted the same rights as white people 49 years ago. Change is coming folks, get used to it or die with hate in your person (but in your mind its ok, because you are definitly going to heaven, and not 6 feet under to rot).

First, to disagree with certain behavior is not to hate anyone. Whether people are born gay is still an open question, but assuming that they are, one's inclinations at birth to behave a certain way CAN be wrong (whether homosexual behavior is considered wrong varies from one person to another). For example, (and not equating homosexual behavior with this) if I were born with an inclination to steal from others, it is not valid behavior just because I was born that way. The behavior must be avoided. People CAN be born "wrong" physically or behaviorally. Whether homosexual behavior is wrong can be discussed, but the fact that someone believes that it is wrong does not make that person a hater.

In this case, it does. There's no parallel between stealing and being born gay. Christians have arbitrarily chosen blackness...whoops!....Jewishness...whoops...being a woman...whoops!....being gay as being immoral. They can't learn from history. They keep making the same mistakes over and over and over again. Are they EVER going to learn Christianity itself is the sin?

@the bigpicture - Talk about haters. Christians may not agree with homosexuality, but they are decent enough (most in general), to treat them in a nice manner instead of snubbing them. How is that a backhanded insult?! Would you rather the religious community attempt to burn homosexuals at the stake? Would you rather they throw rocks at them and call them names? How do you propose the religious community react to homosexuality? It seems here that you are putting people of religion between a rock and a hard place. If we treat them kindly, we are insulting them because we don't believe that homosexuality is right. If we treat them badly, than we are hypocrits. JUST EXACTLY WHAT DO YOU WANT?!!! Don't try to force your lack of religion on people who have chosen a religion. It's no different than people trying to force religion on you!!!!!!!!!!!

We want you to accept that homosexuality is not a choice (who would CHOOSE to be discriminated against, bullied, spit on, and hated anyway? That logic never makes sense to me). Accept that homosexuality is part of our modern world, as god intended, and serves a purpose in the ultimate design. We also want you to accept that the bible was written by a fallible human hand, and that much of it is arcane and outdated and that the nuggets of wisdom it does possess have to be intelligently interpreted and adapted to our lives as they are today.

Thank god for gays...otherwise this human race would keep on breeding like rabbits and we'd be in it even deeper than we already are. Seems a perfectly natural and divine way to try to save us all in my view. You see homosexuality in nature all the time. Even monkeys know it's not a big deal and they don't judge. And that's as close to god as you can get. It's our thinking, judging, greedy, psychopathic human minds that get in the way of peace.

jmo - It doesn't matter if being a homosexual is a choice or not - what matters is that to ACT on those urges is a sin. We all have various urges we need to control. Like right now, you are probably trying to control the urge to slap me silly.

@wryview - I am totally controlling the urge to slap you silly. I see jmo's point and I have thought that myself, on many occasions. I have friends who have told me that they tried their hardest to fight being gay, but they couldn't help how they felt. They were harrassed in so many ways, when they finally did come out, and like jmo said; who wants to be discriminated against?! Now I so believe that there are others who do chose this. My cousin has chosen this because she says women treat her better than men ever did. That's her choice and I'm not going to judge what she wants to do with her life.

Sin is in the eye of the beholder and in my eye Christianity or any religion for that matter is a sin against humanity.

"Whether people are born gay is still an open question" - I believe that implies more room for doubt in the science than there really is and I'm always frustrated with the "born gay" concept because most people interpret that as sexual orientation is specifically defined by a gene or set of genes.

I suspect that the average person has done little recent reading on genetics, inheritance, etc. One of the most interesting aspects of current genetics is the study of the impact of hormones and other chemicals on biological development. Geneticists are finding out that genetics and inheritance isn't just about the genes in your DNA, but also about which genes are expressed when. As an example, it is well-proven that if one takes a female rat pup and injects her with a single does of testosterone at the right point in her development, she will behave like she thinks she is a male rat for the rest of her life. IN layman's terms, the science would appear to show that that single does of testosterone impacts the cognitive development associated with masculinity. Related research with MRI imaging of the anterior hypothalamus has shown that homosexual men and heterosexual women react the same way to sweat & urine scents from men vs. different responses for heterosxual men. That is just the tip of the iceberg on the gay/straight research front... Even with only those two simple examples, it seems pretty hard to argue that orientation is a "choice."

So I find myself in the mental quandary of - if it isn't a choice, then how can one label it inherently "wrong." When one looks at stealing, there is a victim. In a consenting sexual relationship, where is the victim? Stealing and pedophilia might have moral analogies - there are victims in both cases, but not stealing and consenting homosexuality.

Finally with regard to the question of why an atheist might find Christian's rejection of homosexuals abhorrent - I personally find it reprehensible to believe if an "Omnipotent" being who would create everything and then punish his creations for being exactly how he made them. Every bit of science on the matter I have read leads me to believe that homosexuals don't really have a choice in their orientation. If you believe that God "created" everything - That creation must include their orientation and if said orientation drives them towards due behavior that God defines as sinful... God created the drive for the very sin he warns against? Inherently illogical for a supreme being don't you think? Frankly, my rejection of organized religion is about the hypocracy of the entire philosophy most of them are based on. I want to believe that supreme dieties would be superior to man rather than even more petty.

@sandy, missouri - So sorry you feel that way. I can only assume that you have met alot of religious fanatics; which I am not. I am a believer, but that doesn't make me a sin aganst humanity. As long as someone's way of living their life does not affect the way I want to live mine; than I have no problem with what they choose, sexually or other!

Homosexuality is not a birth trait, it is a choice. It is also not in the norm. That is why homosexuals, along with other people who practice other perversions, have been shunned or mistreated by cultures throughout history and the globe. These are kinder, gentler times in the United States. In some countries, you would be killed for being gay. Take what you have and live with it. Trying to convince everyone that being gay is so prevalent is what is stirring up the animosity now.

D McMillen

"Homosexuality is not a birth trait, it is a choice."

That is the most MORONIC STATEMENT I have seen in a long time. It flies in the face of all evidence.

I guess you need that suspension of reality to believe the BS that organized religion passes out.

You need the suspension of reality that "I'm ok, you're ok" child rearing has done to your perception of reality. Funny how so many lesbians have a bunch of kids from when they were married or otherwise sleeping with men, if they are wired to be into women. Same for guys who cheat on their wives with a guy, then go back to their wife like it was any other affair. Sorry, choice, not genetic

Sin is in the eye of the beholder and in my eye Christianity or any religion for that matter is a sin against humanity.

That's your opinion, though I don't believe sin or morality to be relative. Also, you have to count all the good religion has done like feeding the hungry, sheltering the homeless, clothing the naked, ministering to the hurting, giving a sense of community, and giving people hope and the knowledge that they are worthwhile.

That is the most MORONIC STATEMENT I have seen in a long time. It flies in the face of all evidence.

SRS: So where is this evidence? Scientists have already disproven the concept of having a gay gene, back from then they first came up with the idea in the 1990's.

LBNamon:You are obviously not a christian but a Troll. Please stop saying you are a christian. I don't want anyone thinking badly of christians because of what you do. False Prophet!

The evidence has been building for as long as there's been science. It has nothing to do with finding a "gay gene" or not. For instance, homosexuality can be found in animals as well. There's a reason homosexuality is no longer classified as a mental disorder--because there was never really any SCIENCE it was a disorder... Either you believe in some kind of evidence based reasoning, or you don't.

AP : Still haven't answered the question about homosexuality being genetic. If there is no gay gene, then how can you say it is inborn? Unless of course, you realize that even animals get to decide which creatures they like the best? For example, even dogs have their favorites. Many times they will choose one owner over another. Are you saying that if a dog cannot choose its owner, it also cannot choose its partner?

LoveBNamom - So you admit that your cousin CHOSE that lifestyle? Hm.... You say you don't want to judge....but wouldn't you stop her from walking into a burning building for her safety? Or would you let her just walk in because "it's her choice"? Trying to HELP someone and JUDGING are two different things.

The mere fact that Once gays , now gone straight do have the ability to change their ways, and get married and have kids and have a wonderful life. Do they still desire same sex ? Its possible, but they had no gun to their head making choices for them. People can make a choice, it may not be their desire but you can make it. Straight people have turned gay, i have grown up with quite a few women who have been hurt so many times by guys they take their chance with a woman now. Im not saying this is the case for people, but some that were around me in school.

There are organizations out there of Once gay now straight people. Im not saying everyone can do it, but the possibility exists. No gay gene, no genetics to blame. Just people with a preference.

Good one!

Tom-631064, from your post, it sounds like man has already figured that one out. ;) Way to prove your point.

IS that the justification for the church to come out against invitro fertlization? I could apply the same backwards logic.

when a person's own body can cure cancer, we will call medical technology natural, but it's not, so I am sure Tom is against it. When a girl hits puberty, it's her body's way of saying lets get pregnant, which is natural, so I am sure Tom is for it. Condoms are not natural, so I am sure Tom is against it.

Or, he is a hypocrite who does not have a problem with unnatural, he just does not like gays

Apparently you don't know that Christianity teaches that Jesus is alive!!!

I happen to be a follower of Jesus who agrees with the shirt.  I know that Jesus would not be a homophobe any more than he would hate me or anyone else. I hate the way gays and Lesbians have been treated by many churches when they should have been welcomed as Jesus would have welcomed them.  However, as I have commented many times, no one should expect to encounter Jesus and to remain unchanged.  Jesus never said that he would keep people as they were.  He said that he would give them eternal life and abundant life-becoming a Christian involves becoming a new creation, which means change.

2 Corinthians 5:17
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!

There are many people who do not wish to change, as I have also said before; and I respect that, as it is their right; however, that is not what Christianity is all about and that is not why Jesus came.

John 10:9-10
English Standard Version (ESV)

9 I am the door. If anyone enters by me, he will be saved and will go in and out and find pasture. 10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.

And for those of you who believe that God only wants "sheep" as followers, consider this:

Proverbs 25:2
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)

2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter;
to search out a matter is the glory of kings.

It appears to me that God delights in having us search for answers for things about our world and the universe-yes, scientific answers. Why wouldn't he? (Sorry for the slight tangent.)

I believe any student choosing to wear a shirt proclaiming "Jesus is a Homophobe" would also be allowed because of First Amendment rights. Why any student would wish to wear such a hate-filled and inaccurate sentiment on a T-shirt is beyond my understanding, but I'd argue passionately for his right to wear it.

The problem with your argument is that one of those shirts/slogans is inclusive, whereas the other is divisive. One has a message of equal protection for all people (the same as the ideas and goals behind our US Constitution) and the other has a message of segregation and hate. No slogan with a message of segregation and hate is going to be allowed in a school, because it incites violence. It's the same reason that the First Amendment does not allow you to yell "fire" in a crowded theater.

He/she could go ahead and wear that shirt, but 1) it'd be wrong, and 2) the student would look like a bigoted idiot.

Hmm.. While I agree that person has the right to freedom of speech.. I don't think they have that right at school. I don't think anything promoting the hatred of a specific group should be allowed at school. This kid is promoting equality and acceptance... which is why I would be OK with my children going to school at a place that allows people to wear shirts like this.

On the other hand... if shirts claiming "Jesus is a Homophobe" were allowed... I would send my kid to school in a shirt that says "Jesus is not a Christian"

Isaiah,

Because the term homophobe has a negative conotation in our society most people who do not believe that being gay is "morally correct" would not wear such a shirt. As an atheist however I would consider wearing the shirt because I think it more accurately projects the opinions of the religious in America with whom I disagree. (BTW, I don't think Jesus, being a religioius figure, would have actually hated gay folks, any more than I think dinosaurs and elephants were both on an ark).

There's enough people preaching against gays..Every damn sunday

A school has the ability to limit what students wear to some extent. Too short a skirt can be deemed "distracting" and therefore limited. Gang colors can be a safety issue and intimidation. Some things can be outright obscene and thereby limited.

However, if there is no evidence of a safety concern, distraction, intimidation, or obscenity then most courts have upheld a student's right to free speech. Arguably a "jesus is a homophobe" shirt would be intimidating to gay people, and distracting to anyone who is a decent human being. In contrast, this kid's shirt would be a non-issue in the vast majority of schools today.

The standard is "does the proposed act 'cause a substantial disruption of the school's educational mission.'" (US Supreme Court's holding in Tinker v DesMoines.) If yes, it should not be allowed. If no, it should be allowed.

No, because Jesus is not a homophone.

But 'carrot' is.

This shirt was not "inclusive". It was a backdoor way of calling all Christians homophobes. Not true, not kind, not inclusive. If he wanted to wear a shirt that promoted being kind to everyone, that is great. I do not think that was message of his shirt.

Motmoto8. I was wondering when someone else would pick up on the "backdoor" insult!

Motmoto, you really need to work on your reading comprehension. It was not a backdoor way of calling ALL Christians homophobes. It was simply a very obvious wake up call to those Chrisitians who do believe they're doing what Jesus would do when they hate.

All I hear are a bunch of hypocrites. "Jesus is a homophobe" is divisive to homosexuals yes. "Jesus is not a homophobe" is divisive to every Bible-believe Christian or decent person that believes homosexuality is wrong so therefore 1 = 1. I love how homosexuals and their GLBT sympathizers simply want Christians to roll over and say, "It's okay, God doesn't mind sinning and neither do we." They can believe whatever they want but the Bible clearly states that all sinners are bound and destined for Hell without the matchless grace of God. So you're either gay individual or a gay supporter and you're non-Christian, which is understandable. Or you're a gay individual or a gay supporter and you claim to be Christian in which case you should feel, like every other sin that homosexuality is shameful. So is pornography, infidelity, leering at children, beastiality, or any other sexual perversion.

The first amendment only applies when politically correct. Non politically correct exercises of free speech would be considered a federal hate crime, punishable by time in prison.

I'll give it to you crafty LGBT'ers, you really know how to pile on the spin. Your masters at MSNBC must be proud. This was a hijacking of a symbol of christianity to force a message of tolerence and it was aimed solely at christians who do not agree with the homosexual lifestyle. It is an attempt to shame those who disagree with homosexuals into coming around to their sides. This issuse will never be resolved. It is gaining traction apparently due to a lot of brainwahed children of the hippy generation. Way to destroy a country you dirty filthy hippy boomers. Oh and thanks for pushing so many entitlement programs that will be going bancrupt as soon as your brethren start milking the money out of the system. Have you told your kids in your brainwashing sessions that you sold their generation down the river so illegal immigrants can have all the same benefits as them?. have you told them that they have basically no future and a lifetime of debt to pay back thanks to them/. Just curious. The flag burning america hating protestors have finally accomplished what they set out to do. Make America weak and our enemies strong. We are a laughing stock to the world for our liberal mandates.

While I believe that no message shirts belong in school I applaud the decision to let him wear the shirt.

The shirt is name calling and just as offensive as calling gay people sinners. Neither is appropriate nor constructive. Both sides could use a lesson on tolerance. (Meaning letting people believe and fight for what they think is right without putting down anyone who believes differently.)

If you believe in the Holy Bible, gay people are sinners; everyone is -- gay or straight. So it is appropriate.

a

All of you above failed reading comprehension, including the OP. Isaiah stated, and I quote "Will someone please tell me what happens if someone donned a similar shirt proclaiming "Jesus is a Homophone? "

Ladies and gentlemen, if someone wore a shirt like that to school, I'd question the English department as well as the sanity of the wearer. a HOMOPHONE is a word that is pronounced the same but has a different meaning (rose, the flower; and rose the past tense of rise; to, too & two; etc)

Jesus is in no way shape or form, in the English language anyway a HOMOPHONE. I also believe He is neither a homoPHOBE.

Motmoto8, when I read the headline and beginning of the article, I actually thought the message was from a "believing" Christian teen's (and he may be a believer, I don't know) slant to remind all of us that truly...Jesus was NOT homophobic!

US Houtkop, I did not feel insulted. I actually smiled at the message! I guess I chose to own the "reminder" on the young man's shirt.

Just for personal info: I am a follower of the Most High, but a poor example; I am a 52 year old mom of 3; I am a registered Democrat; I am not a fan of Pat Robertson; and I possess a copy of 'The Origin of Species' and the Koran.

My point(s): "All I know is I'm not Home yet. This is NOT where I belong. Take this world and give me Jesus."

(giggle) This is obviously not my night! EMDF9A, at first I thought Isaiah was pulling an Emily Litella with the 'homophone' reference. (giggle) I really did!

It's the school's own fault. Had they not infringed upon his rights it would not have had to pay this much money to cover court costs and legal bills.

It may be the schools own fault, but the only one it penalizes are the students by reducing precious resources available to educate them.

The schools insurance will pay the lawsuit not the school...

I tend to think school administrators shold be personally liable for these sorts of things. Just my two cents.

Ah, the insurance company...I, personally, can't think of a better entity to have to pay. Should've been $20M.

I agree--don't have the school pay for the mistake of a few. The school board should vote to take it out of the hides of those bigots who banned the shirt. Then fire them to teach our youth the meaning of the US Constitution.

All i know is, that closet must have been the size of a continent to justify so many homosexuals nowadays. I think i remember hearing rumors about one for the entire time i was growing up.

gee...wonder why no homosexual within a ten mile radius would reveal themselves to you?....and you conclude that's because there WERE no homosexuals when you were growing up??? LOL!! Oh yeah, that's a real tough one to figure...

is that the best you have? 2000 year old zombie story? Really? Try actually READING the New Testament before you comment on it. Or just try actually reading, that will be a nice start.

Vince, If I told a child today that 2,000 years ago a person died and came back to life they would definitely describe it as a 2,000 year old Zombie story. Seriously just think about the comment.

And if you utilize a story that old to ignore your surroundings and have it dictate you life's motives and actions then yes you are an idiot regardless of what the "New" Testament says. I'm happy for you that you're happy with that life.

So you're telling me that the New Testament DOESN"T state that a 2000 year old zombie, who was/is his own father, sent his son/himself to earth to be tortured and executed to cleanse humanity of the sins of a nonexistent man and nonexistent rib-woman who were tricked by a talking snake into eating an apple (unless you think Adam and Eve were literal persons). All this was done to convince his father/himself to forgive humanity for those nonexistent sins.

That makes much more sense than god/Jesus simply saying "hmm, maybe I should forgive humanity given that even I know that Adam and Eve weren't real people, and that people evolved from ape-like ancestors hundreds of thousands of years ago."

Read the new testament? Doesn't the old testament count?

Vince mentioned the NT because the OT is beyond sick.

SAM,

they both don't count.

RealWorldProgressive, well stated. Why don't these people realize how silly their myth sounds? Athena bursting from Zeus's head is more plausible.

The OT needs to be put in context of all the ancient ways and not used as a basis for today's morality. We also have to take into account who Jesus was speaking to in NT times--a very conservative religious society maybe more akin to Islamic fundamentalism than anything else going today. If Jesus walked in our society, I'm sure his words would reflect the state of our society. However, most of Jesus' words, even after editing by the Church, are timeless and very apropro today, not to mention radical and progressive beyond anything we normally deal with. Attempting to disregard his words and spirit by associating them with myths really is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

They are all suppose to represent the word of Yahweh. Are you saying that you should discount some of them? If so you WILL GO TO HELL!..... but Yahweh loves you...... BUT IF YOU ARE NOT SUB-SERVANT TO HIM YOU WILL GO TO HELL... but Yahweh loves you.........

I "liked" your comment really just because of your name! Actually...you're scaring me, man.... :-)