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Omar Amin
Omar Amin
Updated at 5:55 p.m. ET: An Arizona grandfather says Barnes & Noble discriminated against him and forced him out of a Scottsdale store because he was a male customer sitting alone in the children’s section.
Omar Amin of Scottsdale said he’s still outraged over the May 4 incident and is demanding an apology from the national book retailer. He said he is considering legal action.
On Monday afternoon, Barnes & Noble issued an apology. “We want to apologize to Dr. Amin for a situation in which Dr. Amin was asked to leave the children’s section of our Scottsdale, Arizona store," Mark Bottini, vice president, director of stores for Barnes & Noble, said in an email. "We should not have done so. It is not our policy to ask customers to leave any section of our stores without justification. We value Dr. Amin as a customer and look forward to welcoming him in any of our stores.”
Amin, 73, said he was ousted from the book store after a woman shopper complained to a staff employee, saying she felt uneasy about his presence in the children’s area.
"I did not break any rules,” Amin told msnbc.com on Monday. “There was no sign posted that said men are not allowed in the children's book area."
Amin said he had been looking for books to buy for his two grandchildren, ages 7 and 5, when his cell phone rang. He said he sat on the floor by the windows and spoke quietly to a friend, he said.
Amin said a store employee interrupted his call and said he needed to leave the store.
Arizona's public-accommodations law prohibits discrimination on the basis of gender, according to Arizona State University law professor Charles Calleros.
Calleros told the Arizona Republic that if women without children are allowed to shop in the children's section, "then we arguably have gender discrimination.”
Amin, the director of Parasitology Center Inc. in Scottsdale and an expert in infectious disease, had written a complaint to Barnes & Noble.
“It's not enough. I want my honor restored,” Amin told msnbc.com. “I want to walk back into the store with my head held up high. I did not break any rules. My pride has been scratched.”
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Was the geezer wearing a trench coat with the collar turned up?
Are you going to describe yourself as a geezer when you reach 73; or are you not planning on getting old?
Personally, I would have had a hard time not slapping both the idiot woman and the store employee; but court awards are much more effective in the long run. Sue the f**k out of them, Mr. Amin!!
Living in the Boothbay area of Maine, I tell folks: Welcome to Geezerville!!
We're in the oldest populated county (Lincoln) in the seventh oldest populated state (Maine)
Wimps move to Florida!!!
sue? really? what's his hurt pride worth a cool couple million?? everyone needs to get over their perceived slights, their hurt pride & shattered feelings. despite what you think you are owed, you aren't owed anything. get over it & move on. money isn't going to make your boo boo heal any faster.
njcyn you must be out of your mind, somebody disrespects me like that in broad day light in front of every one I would be pissed. I hope every time you step out people treat you like a pedophile, we'll see how quickly your opinion changes then.
but money makes your boo boo heal in a better environment. he shouldn't win money but to assume he's a pervert and throw him out on someone else's whim isn't right. i would have made a huge scene and asked to see my accuser.
For me it would be simple. Fire the employee and manager that told the guy he had to leave or sue.
BTW, its plain and simple discrimination. Get a couple of older friends and picket the store, then watch them buckle like a house of cards.
I hope he sues and wins. Also, I hope the store is required to identify his accuser, so he can sue him/her as well.
People have got to learn to stop being so presumptuous. If it takes suing all their asses off, so be it. We're completely out of control in this country in accusing everyone who looks like some preconceived notion of this, that or the other unsavory character of being exactly that character. It's bad enough how people keep going on and on that Muslims in traditional dress are all terrorists, but to treat an old man like a pedophile just 'cause he's shopping in a children's book section is possibly even more unconscionable.
I assume all fat men with bad hair and conservative suits who attend church regularly molest their daughters. Shall I start calling Child Protective Services on every man I see who fits this physical description and has female offspring walking with him into/out of places of worship? Would I be justified in doing that? Would the leaders of these churches be justified in telling such men to leave if I called them to tell them I think their parishioners who fit this description are child molesters?
This poor guy was treated just as horribly by both Barnes and Noble and the customer who "reported" him.
There are many, many places to sit in a Barnes and Noble. Your a man by yourself regardless of age and sit in the CHILDRENS section??? Give me a break, this guy is some kind of pervert and should be lucky a father type did not do a smack down on him. Run a background check on him, betcha he's got a little Pee Wee Herman in him.
BS lawsuit, he should know better unless he liked to watch kids and could not control himself. And the people on this vine support this? You all must not have kids and are used to the trailer scum roaming around? Hopefully, if you have kids they will be the ones watching him masterbate in the childrens book section....
Seven,
If you don't believe a man by himself should be in the children's section, why would it be okay with you if a "father type" was there? Women can be pedophiles too.
I like that a grandpa would think to get his grand-kids some books.
Oh Spider, some of us actually enjoy our ages and enjoy laughing about it, I love being a crone. As for Seven's comment...Grandpas should be just as welcome in the childrens sections as Grandmas. This man was wronged and is very right to be upset.
And this is a national issue? Slow news day, huh.
If the woman felt uncomfortable, she should have felt free to leave. People need to keep their children and grandchildren right by their sides in public and take responsibility for their safety. If people did that there would be alot fewer problems with strangers.
we all have to remember exactly where this happened.. the disturbed state of AZ and I would take them to the cleaners.. by the way is there any proof of this accusation.. sue that B&^%$ too
First he should have been asked to leave for using the cell phone in the store to begin with! Take that outside...a book store is kind of like a library...I don't want to hear your conversation with a "friend" anywhere in a public retail space, espsecially a bookstore! This suing business is way out of control...every store is going to have to record every minute of every day they are open so no one gets "offended" and sues! Geez....did they point a finger and call him a pervert out loud or something? Get over yourself...you have grandkids and you were NOT looking at for books for them if you were talking on the phone!
I kind of see both sides.
Seeing an older man in the children's sections (without kids), as a Mom, yes it would bother me. Has no one, that doesn't get that, ever Googled and read The Family Watchdog? The sick perverts are everywhere. So much so, you do need to be on guard.
Men don't help, hug or interact much with strangers children or even friends children for fear of being accused of acting inappropriately. That's sad, but frankly, it's the world we live in nowadays.
I hope he sues and win. I think they were wrong to assume that he was trying to pick up children. And actually I wonder if the mother was in the children's section with her children. I have seen too many parents drop their kids off in the back and roam the store or go to Starbucks.
Kimberly as for the cell phone, do you know how many times I have seen folks in Barnes and Noble running their mouths on a cell phone? No Barnes and Noble is not like a library. And as for those who are saying there are other places for him to sit, let me ask you where. Most of the seats that are there are very limited, and those are taken by college students mainly and maybe a few oldsters who hang out there depending upon where the bookstore is located. Are you saying he had no business in that section even if he is buying books for his grandchildren? Is he supposd to buy something from the horror section for them? I have been at the book store with the nieces and nephews and without them and gone to that section without any problems.
Maybe parents should learn to keep an eye on their kids instead of calling for the calvary. And folks need to not be so damn paranoid, just keep an eye out for your own and don't create problems for others.
Others are you saying he had no right to answer his phone? I hope you never get in trouble for answering your phone.
This man was wrongly accused and that mother should be ashamed of herself. Keep an eye on your child or children, but if the man isn't approaching your children, relax! Assume the best of people instead of the worst!
Anyone else notice that an expert on infectious disease was sitting on the floor at B&N? Seems fishy to me.
imagine arizona having a law against racial discrimination. that's real rich coming from a state whose job lately has been just that. i agree that b& n owe him an apology but i don't think he has a right to sue
I swear, as a young man, 27, I have gotten to the point that I wont help people anymore. When I was 17, I helped an elderly woman change her tire because she looked like she needed a hand, I actually had 3 other men stop and see if she needed any help too, sad that in 10 years we've come this far. Nowadays, if I saw a woman being raped, I would ignore her because I would probably be sued by the rapist AND her for interfering! Kid is lost in the mall, too bad, not my problem I don't wanna be called a pedophile. Car ran out of gas? Sorry, you could be an ax murderer. Your child is stuck in a burning building, that sucks, it's not covered by my insurance. Honestly, at this point I think as soon as I can save the money I'm moving to Japan or something.
As a single father of four boys I have experienced discrimination first hand. Once while walking down a busy street to attend the theatre, my son, age 9, took my hand. I was reported to Childline for "inappropriate behavior with a child." My son was actually removed from class at school and questioned without my knowledge!
njc...I will concede that he is way out of line for suing...maybe he should just get two free books for his grandchildren and move on. Our sue happy society is way out of line now.
I also have to agree with valhall. I can't tell you how many times I have been in a Barnes and Noble (in children's book section with no children because I am a grandmother buying for her grandchildren) and kids are going crazy and unwatched in the children's book section because Mom or Dad is on the other side of the store looking for their own books. People if you are afraid of the man on the floor talking on a cell phone, watch you kids for chrissakes. Don't accuse an innocent person of something that your screwed up thinking has conjured up.
And, I also think everyone on this message board should chip in $5 so that knife104 can by that ticket to Japan.
sparklystar: just to point it out, he is not suing anyone. He filed a complaint against B&N and asked for an apology, nothing more.
knife...my post clearly states that I am referring to njc's comment about him suing. Do you not see that? (quote from the article btw "He said he is considering legal action.") And he does deserve two free books for his grandchildren, those are my feelings, not what I think he shoul ask for.
Seven2seven
The guy stated was looking for books to buy for his two grandchildren when his cell phone rang. What's we suppose to do walk to the adult section to take the call? Should a woman have to do the same?
What is this world coming to anyway when someone can be kicked out of a business establishment at the whim of some paranoid neurotic idiot without that business even bothering to verify that the person was doing anything wrong? Its gotten so bad these days that men have to pretty much avoid, and even ignore, children for fear that some paranoid psycho will accuse them of being perverts. I love children myself and back in the 70’s and 80’s if someone’s children waved or smiled I could wave back and even play around with them. These days though I have to ignore those cute smiles and I refuse to interact with other peoples children for fear that some mentally deranged parents might mistakenly think I’m some sort of pedophile. Of course any intelligent sane rational person could size me up in a few seconds and tell that I am nothing of the sort. The problem is that a lot of parents these days are neither sane nor rational. Also, the fact of the matter is there are no more pedophiles around now then there were 40 years ago. The only difference is that today the media is constantly throwing it in our faces to the point where we think we see pedophiles everywhere. In actuality though 99 percent of the time those "suspicious" looking people are no more a pedophile than you or I. And pedophilia aside, NO citizen should EVER be able to have another citizen ejected from a business or public venue on that persons say so alone. The business should investigate to and find out if there is really a problem or not. After all, if my presence in a room makes someone uncomfortable then that person is the one with a problem and the one who should be asked to leave, seeing as how I don’t dress or act in a manner that would cause ANY rational sane person to be uncomfortable around me. Forty years ago if someone were offended or upset by something that would not offend or upset a normal person we just said that they are the ones with the problem and they need to deal with it. These days however all the sane people in our society have to constantly tip toe around walking on eggshells for fear that some crackpot might take something the wrong way. And unlike the old days when the relatively sane majority were always right in these matters, now it’s the insane minority who dictate what we can say and do. If even one crackpot anywhere in the world could find something offensive then we as a society have to bend to that persons totally irrational will. In short we have gone so overboard in our attempts to give equal right to all that ironically we have actually created an even more oppressive society.
The action of the store was terrible and frankly shows how ridiculous our PC police have become. I can't imagine going up this man that was doing nothing disturbing and asking him to leave. On what grounds. The people making the decision should be fired . I mean my goodness this is presuming guilt with no evidence whatsoever.
This is a tough call. B & N obviously has to be proactive against pervs...(their butts would be in a sling if this guy (or any other person) abused or exposed themselves to children.
As far as wanting to believe Amin's story, as a mother and as a professional - I am required to have a healthy dose of skepticism.
Nothing to do with this article, but to give you an idea of innocent "grandfathers" out there... Was in a Winco grocery when my kids were younger... They headed to the boys' room, and I across the way into the ladies room. An elderly (late 60s maybe?) gentleman was coming out - and loudly proclaiming that he had made a mistake - and he went into the men's room. It happens (I've done it myself). However, upon entering the stall, a big 'ol dusty footprint was on the rim of the toilet seat. I flew out of there and marched into the men's room to yank my boys out. Sadly, a young female clerk was the recipient of perv's unwanted viewing...and even though I pointed the guy out - nothing happened to him...sweet old grandfatherly type.
Both he and a woman should do the same; don't answer the phone. Cell phone users are so damn inconsiderate. I carry one all the time but in public it is on vibrate and if I answer it, I do so in an area that will not bother others.
If a cell phone call is so important that it has to be answered, don't put yourself in a situation to bother others, it is your issue, not theirs.
TimT051 - I agree with you. This looks and sounds like overzealous employees and management. I hope he does sue, and I hope he collects some $$$ - and then donates that to charity.
Several years ago, I was in a Black Angus restaurant in Everett, WA waiting for my wife outside the women's restroom. A manager accosted me, and told me to leave the area. I explained that I was waiting for my wife, that she uses canes and needs help every now and then. (WA state law allows me to go into the women's restroom to help my wife, if that should be necessary.)
Even with that explanation, it was move or else. I told the manager he should call the police because I was going to have the police write him a citation. He declined to do that. I continued to wait for my wife. We left without ordering and have never returned to that place. A letter to the company to inform them about the reasoning impaired manager, did not warrant a reply.
"and if I answer it, I do so in an area that will not bother others." Sounds exactly like what he did. The woman didn't complain about his being on the phone. Why are you assuming that anyone who talks on a phone in public does so rudely?
I can't believe all of the negative comments about this man - and practically none about the busybody broad that "reported" him.
If the store manager had any spine , he/she would have made her wait around (anon of course ) to learn the outcome of her bs. Once they checked him out , they should have immediately backed off and apologized - and then went back to her , thanked her for her "concerns" , and then asked HER to leave , just for being a pain in the arse.
What do you want to bet this wasn't the first time she stuck her nose where it didn't belong. Shame on B&N - they deserve every bit of the bad press. Sounds like their managers need more training.
seven2seven you have provided the perfect rationale for this felllow to sue.After alll, this guy doesn't deserve to have morons who don't know any bettter thinking he's he' some kind of pervert.
Having raised a son in this crazy world, I wonder what it was about the man that got the woman's attention. Maybe she just didn't like his looks, or maybe there was something else. There are times when you see someone and your skin just starts to crawl. I always paid attention to that feeling.
Yes, my father bought numerous books for his grandson. Simply seeing an older gentleman in a bookstore wouldn't trigger a gut reaction in me. Maybe she overreacted, or maybe she had a gut feeling. His demands for an apology and attention bring to mind a quote from a book found in a different section of Barnes & Noble. To paraphrase, "Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much!"
Jesus christ, the ideas of SOME of the people commenting on here... talk about completely screwed up minds!. So now all it takes is for a man old young or anything standing in a childrens area to be labeled and treated like a pervert or pedophile... I believe someone was sick but it was NOT this man, it's the people who are so screwed up that every guy THEY deem suspicious is automatically a pedophile... regardless of the fact this man was looking for some books for his grandchildren. See what the news has done? It's done nothing but make some people so screwed up that they think every man is suspect. If he looks in the direction of a child he MUST be a pedophile.. if he stands in or near a childrens area he MUST be a pedophile.. People get your screwed up minds out of the gutter and act like true adults!.
Obviously the ones that do it quietly I don't hear. But I hear so many each day that don't that I feel it is fair to state the generalization about cell phone users; their rude.
I'm sure it doesn't bother you as you are on your phone talking. Sitting on the floor in a bookstore is not a "normal" thing.
The fear is borne out of the actions of others. I can see both side of this case. On one hand Dr. Amin was wronged for being an older gentleman in a child's section by someone who was unreasonably paranoid.
On the other hand, I had been in a situation where myself and my daughter were in a restroom at a Wal-mart supercenter when this man walked in and used the restroom. Needless to say I reported that fast and management went into action looking for him. If irritated me more that freaked me out but I also had my brother with me. He's protective of me and my daughter.
Considering the publicity surrounding women who have sexually assaulted and/or killed children, isn't it time that we retired this misandrist "old perv in a trenchcoat" stereotype? How many female teachers have been in the news lately for making out with/having sex with/sexting students? Maybe we should bar women from the children's section, too? And frankly, I don't care to be stereotyped as more "caring" and "nurturing" when I'm not! I thought that we women fought for equality and dignity with men?
Honestly, it has become impossible to satisfy mothers these days! Either random strangers are expected to be "helpful" and understanding, or to keep our opinions to ourselves; to praise their children, but not speak to them (as we all may be pedophiles!); tolerate children in bars but not drink or swear around them; offer them treats when they are screaming and destroying things, as long as said treats contain no gluten or additives or peanuts; assume that they all have "awe-tism," but not regard them as disabled (or major pains in the ass); heap praises upon women who breastfeed while dancing on a table at the club, but keep their precious darlings away from any nudes in the art museum; admire their kids, but not look at them (as we all may be pedophiles!); etc., etc., etc.!
I am hearing more and more from married, law-abiding fathers about how they had the police or security called on them for some specious accusation of being a "pedophile." It is unacceptable and irrational, and downright unconstitutional. This madness must stop.
I would rather that he sue, than be unfairly stigmatized. If he is discriminated against, so am I. So much for "gender equality."
He's a man, obviously he was in the kids section to pick up tykes, because the sum of all evil and perversion in the world is men. Now, turning my sarcasm back off, I think we can now see just how much the media has turned men into a vicious evil that wants to destroy all of society and bend poor innocent women over the nearest trash can, or beat them bloody. I personally hopes he sues the tar out of them. I'm sick of this culture demonizing us guys into ruin, especially when women do the same things and get a slap on the wrist...
Don't believe me? Pfft. Tell me how many female teachers have had their lives ruined and been locked away or beaten to death because they had relations with an underage male student? Now look at that toss-fest when a teacher started dating an of-age student. Yeah, that's what I thought...
The woman that made the complaint should be court ordered to allow this man to slap her silly. There is FAR too much discrimination, against Males in this country, in serious matters, a man is punished just because he IS a man, men are blamed for being born men, and for having an outty instead of an inniy.
Custody laws, child support laws ALL Punish Men, social laws all punish men. Try this, have a married couple go one at a time to their 7yo childs school, with a camera and at recess, take photos of their OWN child at play, and see how fast the swat team shows up when the man does it, and nothing gets done to the woman.
Watch a couple with a 3yo girl in a dept store, when that child acts up and wont stop crying or screaming over some toy or candy, watch what happens when the FATHER walks our of the store with the upset child so his Wife can finish shopping. Here comes the storm troopers.....
I'm sure any of you can find your own examples of these same things, except of course all the men hating women that are happy to cause trouble for any man, society hates men, this story proves it along with a fair amount of posters here. it needs to stop.
Heres another one, just TRY getting a cop to believe that a WOMAN commits domestic violence, watch that cop laugh when the man says he was punched and slapped. Watch the cop beat the living @!$%# out of a Man that slaps and punches a woman. Assault is assault but in THIS country only women are assaulted. I know this, i was told this by a cop, the one that refused to remove my wife from the house, and told me i could go sleep in the woods if i didnt feel safe in the house with my wife.
You will never see this inequality reported on, you will never hear any law official say ALL domestic Violence not just that against women. You will never see a woman charged for false accusations, for false reports, for blatantly lieing about a man. The woman that complained should have HER photo with the store, not her victim, but again the Man has to be shown even though he did nothing wrong, when did it change that we no longer have the right to be faced by our accusers, where is HER face?
sue? really? what's his hurt pride worth a cool couple million?? everyone needs to get over their perceived slights, their hurt pride & shattered feelings. despite what you think you are owed, you aren't owed anything. get over it & move on. money isn't going to make your boo boo heal any faster.
Sorry, but I get being offended at the assumption that you're a pedofile sex molester. I'm tired of parents overreacting and this is a classic example. He was made to leave the store because of how he looked to one customer and rather than simply approach him and make sure he *was* a customer, they kicked him out with "you're a man in the children's book section and that means you're making people uncomfortable".
And why was this woman uncomfortable? Because he was an older man alone and apparently that means he wanted to have sex with her child. And because she's an overreacting idiot, this guy was forced out of the store with "well, people think you're here to rape children so get out". I totally get why he's suing and I respect it.
So some woman gets upset... in return an old man gets upset... and this is news? It's called life you freaking crybabies.
P.S.
If Barnes and Noble hadn't listened to the woman's complaint she would probably be screaming that they are bias against women... of course if she doesn't have an important title like "Dr" or director of Parasitology Center Inc." it probably wouldn't matter much.
Enough Now people, I bow my head to you. You put it so much better than I ever could. Thank you for putting to words the feelings of every man in this great country of ours.
We have become a nation of paranoid scaredy cats.
ThaMonkeh, thank you for your kind words. This issue really fires me up, ive lived through what i posted, it makes it difficult to live a normal life, you always have to watch every thing you say, do, where you look, who you smile at, keep your hands in your pockets in crowded places, and in general struggle to not feel guilty for being a man., i would the chance to address some law society, or congress and actually make them hear what goes on in this country.
After reading through this first section of comments, it's striking that at least a few women here think the anonymous report to B&N management was completely, fully justified because of their own personal experiences with men in women's restrooms. Are we really to believe those situations, and this one, are identical??
I'm a single 50 y.o. male, father and uncle, and have been alone shopping in the children's book section plenty of times to buy books for my two nieces, 8 years old and 6 months old. Spoiler Alert: I even sit on the bed next to them and read stories to them at nighttime!! Shocking. Reprehensible!
But it's going to get worse. My first grandchild is due later this year, and if any spineless store manager or overwrought women think they can keep me from the children's section, due to unfounded paranoia and rampant hysteria, they will be mistaken. The manager should have asked the accuser to leave, go home, and order her books online.
This speaks volumes ( no pun intended ) about what Barnes & Noble have let themselves become. I was a manager there for six years, and opted to take a severance in lieu of another position when they closed my location a year ago. They are forcing out all the qualified people, and the long term booksellers, to save money. What they have now is a bunch of people who know nothing about managing a business, including how to deal with situations like this one, and even less about books. This should NEVER happen to anyone.
Sorry every one is off the deep end. Reminds me of the eighties when every day care provider was a pervert. Or it reminds me of when my weak minded mother in law accused my 9 year old of molesting his 4 year old cousin. She just felt that every male is molesting every little girl. She died recently and I did not shed a tear. My sons never had a relationship with their paternal grandparents because of this.
Outrageous. Really people, get a grip on your anxieties.
We are so viciously paranoid about one another, yet global warming--yes, there are now forests growing in the Arctic tundra--and the ironclad grip corporations have on all aspects of our government garner barely a cynical yawn. Is something wrong with this picture, or what??
Well if this is the case, then I don't want to see any grown women in the children sections of libraries, bookstores, the candy isle of stores either.
Get a fukkin grip you dingbat. This is a case when we really need someone like RalphKramden
to send women like this "to the Moon."
Excellent analogy in how we have allowed prejudiced women take down our society, men and our constitutional rights with it.
I too found this really pathetic but not surprising. Some retailers are really bored and are just looking for a problem.
I can't see any justification for the store's action other than a store manager's panicked reaction to an hysterical mother, which is certainly no justification for offending a customer. Hey, Barnes & Noble Corporate, does this mean men unattended by women and/or children are no longer welcome in the children's section of your stores? Last time I looked at the news headlines, women were equally capable of molesting children. Maybe only children should be allowed in the children's section? Of course then your sales would go to hell in a handbasket, as would the ability of your store personnel to control rambunctious children. In any event, your stores seem to be closing left and right, so maybe you won't have to deal with this issue much longer.
If this gentleman can be made to leave a book store because he is taking a call in the children's section, then they should be made to have a sign on the door and all through the store stating that grandfathers, uncles and godfathers of children are not welcome in the children's section.
How did the store personnel know that he wasn't consulting someone by phone about book selections as a gift? Maybe the sign should also read that men of a certain age cannot talk on the phone in the store.
I think child molesters are the scum of the earth, but throwing every older man out of the store because he is in the children's section is not going to further the cause of preventing child abuse.
"He said he sat on the floor by the windows and spoke quietly to a friend"
Once you take a phone call and sit down on the floor, you are no longer a shopping customer, you are now loitering. And loitering in the children's section while by yourself?? Yeah, it would make me uncomfortable also if I was working there - I'd do the same thing, ask him to take the call outside.
Chris '12, then you're fired. You don't treat customers as if they were criminals. If someone comes to you with a concern, you thank them for the information and look into it with discretion and compassion. If it is a misunderstanding, you don't want to make things worse.
By immediately jumping to the worst conclusion, you show that you are not appropriate for dealing with the customers. I'm afraid we're going to have to let you go.
Chris - are you flippin kidding me ?
When was the last time YOU were in a Barne's & Noble - they have coffee bars and food & snacks just so people WILL LOITER , and sit around - EVERYWHERE - talking and visiting. Being alone in a book store for an extended period of time is now suspicious ?
I'll bet you're a cop , and probably not a very good one. Was your wife the detective with the nose out of joint?
Brian - I'd give you a dozen checks in agreeent if they'd let me.
I just had a conversation with my husband about this. He often goes to the children's section to buy books for our grandson. I would hope no one would turn him in because he is in the children's section. He is an extrovert and normally just says hello to any one along his Path BUT he just said he does not do this with kids any more because some wack a doodle will misinterpret saying hello.
Sorry, but a lone guy loitering in the children's books would set off my alarms too. Probably because, when I was 11, I was cornered in a bookstore by a pervert who was touching himself and showing me pornography. That's the sort of experience that puts you on very high alert for skeevy people.
MK03 - Wow! You are comparing a "pervert...touching himself" to what appears to be a gentleman sitting by a window talking on the phone?! REALLY!?
If your phone rings, go outside to talk, no matter where you are.
the phone has nothing to do with this....
Are you serious?? You would leave a store while shopping just to answer a phone?
lol geeeeez
Its not a library or doctors office. really, if you told me to take the call outside. I would publicly embarrass the fool that asked.
Maybe it was 120 degrees out. Would you want to be out in that?
No, I will not abandon the products I have picked out for eventual purchase to appease your unnatural fear of people on cell phones. Perhaps you are assuming everyone is rude on the phone because you don't notice us regular considerate people who talk on them around you all the time.
Adam - "I would publicly embarrass the fool that asked."
Why would anyone else be embarrassed by you highlighting what an obtuse moron you are?
pjam
you really should quit talking to yourself.
Wow...
Stfu people all over this country, and many of you have stopped by msnbc to share your stfu ideas. Thanks, but no thanks. Go live in Russia if you want that kind of control.
Dr. Amin is right to object. He was doing nothing wrong or inappropriate. The gradual erosion of our civil rights is in our own hands to stop. Sure, children need to be protected from predators, but he was doing nothing to indicate he was a predator.
Civil rights erosion?? There are no civil rights being violated when you are loitering in the children's section of a store.
While I'm at it - it's not a civil rights violation when the TSA screens you at an airport either. You are voluntarily choosing to fly...
TSA? What???
Loitering in the kid's section? He was buying books for his grandchildren! Who is the pervert? I think you!
It is not just older men, but older women too who must worry. My Mom has dementia and is never in public without someone responsible with her. However, she taught elementary school for years (kindergarten and first grade) and loves to wave at little children (always from a distance.) She is in a wheel chair, escorted and obviously harmless, but to see the reaction of some parents is to wonder how these children will ever grow up to figure out they are not breakable!
Chris'12:
Bookstores OFFER amenities in their stores for people to LOITER! The longer people hangout at the store, the better chance of purchasing something. Get a life, loser.
Something is not right with this guy's story. When I'm in B&N, or any store that has a section devoted to kids, its usually filled with loud, screaming kids, and mothers who have no desire or ability to keep them quiet.
Why would this man put himself thru that, and to actually sit down on the floor in there during a phone call? I think the store was right - something is definitely amiss here, people. Check his phone records - see if he was actually on a call. If he was, he should have walked out of the store; if he wasn't, he just wanted to sit there and watch kids.
If I were a Geezer - which I'm quickly approaching - why would I sit on a floor where countless children may have 'soiled' themselves..
Oh! I get it now!!!
Joe... wait until YOU have grandchildren.
My own grandchildren are the same ages. Boy just had his 7th b-day, and a 5yo grand-daughter. Guess what... I (at least used to) go to B&N for books... and on occasion, I DO take a call while there.
And I often ask a boy or girl what they think of the book I picked, and if the mother is there I ask her opinion as well. I have yet had any hysterical mother question me.
Joe, I agree. Was this guy there with his grandchildren? NO. He says he was there to buy books for his grandchildren. HE SAYS. If the store does nothing until he touches a kid or exposes himself then what? His story sounds phony. If you want to smoke or take a call go outside. People don't realize how loud they talk on the cell. It carries quite a distance. I for one I am tired of being included in what should be private conversations.
So you claim that you walk out of any establishment you may be in when you get a call on cell phone?
so in other words devil, your right to stand there supercedes his. got it. some people's voices do carry when on the phone, some don't and unless the store has a policy on cell phones anyone can use them. don't like it? you are free to "go outside".
Where the F all you geniuses get off talking about taking a phone call outside. WHY!!!!? is there a law about not talking on a phone call in a store? obviously not. This has nothing to do with the phone call. Just a dumb@$$ woman who doesn't know how to live in the world. you are all fn morons sad future for this country.
@Joe and Devil's Son.
It's obvious that you both are potential child molestors, since you both seem so well versed in the techniques they use.
Sarcasm? You decide.
he was looking for books for his grand kids read what it said
Severed Head;
My thoughts exactly. We need pictures of Joe and Devil's Son, so that way every time we see them somewhere we can say we feel they are pedophiles and need to be asked to leave, regardless if they "SAY" they are only doing this or that, we think they are perverts, that means they can't be there. F*cking d**che bags. I'd have asked who accused me and taken them to court for slander. Pedophile isn't something that is forgotten, and yes even the whisper of it can ruin a mans life.
Devil, as a grandmother I am quite often in the children's section of barnes and noble with no children, as is my husband, their grandfather. Based on your post can I assume that you think anyone in the children's section of Barnes and Noble is not shopping for books, but looking for victims???? Should the store throw out ALL adults who are in the children's section? That would include my son and daughter. They too go to Barnes and Noble without the kids to buy bday and Christmas gifts. Not to mention my daughter in law and my son in law. Then there are my husband's parents who buy gifts for their great grandchildren at Barnes and Noble (IN THE CHILDREN'S SECTION BTW). Your thinking really eliminates quite a few of Barnes and Noble's customer base, don't ya thing?
Lets take the "take it outside" argument to its natural conclusion. All non-shopping related conversations between two shoppers must cease while inside the store. You don't realize that others are there to shop and not to listen to your personal conversations.
That is just as reasonable, right?
But Paul the conversation about the phone call does not correlate with someone being a pervert.
As compensation, B&N will give him a life-time pass to Kiddie-Land
Why does it matter that he was in the children's section? So he wanted to read the content of a few books he was planning to purchase for his grandchildren and he answered a call. Big deal. I'm a mother of four and it wouldn't bother me. First of all, I keep my children by my side. I do not let them wander the stores alone while I look for what I want to purchase. Secondly, if we visit the children's section, I go with them to supervise them. This is for their safety as well as the store.
I believe the female customer was paranoid. Was she in the children's section alone as well? Why is it okay for her to shop in the children's section but Mr. Amin was not allowed? If he was not approaching children alone or attempting to touch them, which it sounds like he was NOT, he had every right to shop for his grandchildren and take a call near the wall where he could speak privately without disturbing other shoppers.
And mothers? What century do you live in? My son goes there, my husband does as well. We encourage our grandson to read.
I'm pretty sure any store would have a problem with someone coming into their establishment, sitting on the floor and having a phone conversation. This gentleman wasn't shopping, he was loitering.
Luce1, I shop at B&N quite often and that's normal behavior for most of their patrons.
And I'm disgusted that this happened to the poor man. I hope the woman who reported him feels ashamed of herself. Probably not though. She's probably one of those paranoid helicopter moms who think every man is a child molester.
Did you NOT see the part where he said he was shopping for books for his 7- and 5-year-old grandchildren when he received a call? You're as bad as the idiot woman who said she was uncomfortable with him being there.
Luce1...
Obviously, you have never been in a Barnes & Noble... that is VERY common behavior for patrons there. Oh, by the way, they DO have chairs in many and they all have coffee shops.
Of course to know that, you would have a need for books.
This gentleman wasn't shopping, he was loitering.
Yeah, because he just woke up, and decides to go into a store, planning to loiter and talk on a cell phone, and I'm sure he was lying about buying books *sarcasm*.
Um, NO he was not loitering! The man clearly said he was shopping for books for his grandchildren, and he stopped to take a phone call. If he was shopping for his grandchildren then he WAS shopping! He was ALLOWED to take that phone call, no matter who called, no matter WHAT store, no matter WHAT section! And that store did NOT have any rules about who can and can't be in the children's section, therefore, they were in the wrong, and discriminating against him.
I've sat on the floor of MANY bookstores, for a few minutes at a time, and no employee ever had a problem with it...probably because they KNEW I had money to spend.....tho ONLY reason they had a problem with this man was because they made the AUTOMATIC assumption that he was a predator.
This had nothing to do with loitering. These employees were SICK IN THE HEAD to agree with that woman's assumption, especially since he was doing nothing wrong.
That woman with the disgusting attitude, trying to paint a man who has children AND young grandchildren as a pedophile....as far as I'm concerned, the employees were NO BETTER THAN SHE for taking her side. The fact that people would take a harmless situation and try to turn it into something horrible like that...who's really the sick one, huh?
Have you ever been to B&N?? it's loaded with people sitting on the floor reading books.
I'm not saying that this man actually is a predator: his story smacks of truth to me, though of course, I could be wrong.
But LOTS of people with children are predators. Lots of people molest their own kids. So saying "he has children and grandchildren!" makes absolutely no difference in vetting him as a non-molester. And fact of the matter is, most of the time you can't just "tell" who's a child molester and who's not based on looking at them. I think the employees were playing it safe, and asking an adult man not to just loiter in the children's section. It seemed like no one had a problem with him being there when he was actively looking at books; just when he seemed to be taking up residence. It's not like people have never faked taking a phone call before in their lives.
And you know this exactly how?
Does this mean I can have staff or employees ask you to leave a public place if I think you're loitering?
Which people do in book stores, oh, ALL THE TIME!!!!
Luce, I sit on the floor there all the time if I am looking at a book/magazine when there aren't any seats in that section especially. You would be lucky to find any seats in the kids' section. When I would get books for one of my nieces who is 13 now, I would sit down and skim books that I had to make sure she could read to make sure they were suitable for her and not offensive to her or her religion (parents are ultra religious). If folks are so uncomfortble with men who are alone, they should keep an eye on their kids instead of being paranoid.
chibi..are you serious? we can now judge, convict and condemn people by the way they do or don't look? I hope you look "normal" to everyone who sees you, because if you don't fit into someone's version of normal they can turn you in and you can be judged based soley on that person's take of what "normal" is. Good Luck with your way of thinking.
Not sure it was gender discrimination as much as B&N policy in general. I'm a 35-year-old woman and I was at a Barnes & Noble in Manhattan with a male friend who went off to another section. I selected several books for my children, then sat down to wait for him to come back. Not even a minute later, a B&N employee asked me to leave since I didn't have any children actually with me. She was nice about it but said it was their policy.
At least 75% of the people in that bookstore go there to read the books for free and use the free internet. In any other place it would be called loitering, but at B&N they are called valued customers. The place is setup for people to hangout. That's why there are comfortable chairs placed all over the store.
Society has really gone over the edge with this in assuming just about everyone is a child molester. My single son buys books for his nephew and his girl friend's nieces and nephews. Should he just order them on Amazon? What had happened that any male in kids sections must be a pervert?
Obviuously you never visit said booktores. Do you think they have coffee shops because they do not want you to hang out?
The store's entire pitch is, "C'mon in, browse, sit & stay awhile." As previously stated, Barnes & Noble sells food and coffees, has tables for sitting and chairs, even a stage, in the children's area. It's a parental obligation to watch out for their own kids.
One woman's 'feeling' in the complete absence of any evidence was actually a violation of the man's civil rights because of gender discrimination and absence of due process. Kicking him out violated the Bill of Rights. Somebody should require both the lady & the store clerk to read it. In my store, the employee would be temporarily suspended--not fired-- and we'd have a mandatory meeting to discuss the proper way to deal.
"Amin, 73, said he was ousted from the book store after a woman shopper complained to a staff employee, saying she felt uneasy about his presence in the children’s area."
And there you have it, folks! PROOF that this is the new era of EXTREME overprotectiveness. EXTREME paranoia, like this woman who was DESPERATE to paint this man as a pedophile, when he was buying books for his grandchildren. I HATE other women who try to paint innocent men as predators.
And yet we have posters here saying, "Well maybe he isn't a child molester, but we shouldn't take any chances."
"Maybe he isn't a terrorist, but we shouldn't take any chances."
"Maybe he isn't a criminal, but..."
See where that leads? Guilty until proven innocent. So we don't take any chances.
I am a 58 year old man who never had kids. Occasionally , I give in to a bit of wistful nostalgia for the "family life" we should have had. On those occasions, I might stop and look at a kid doing something endearingly cute, or laughing in that totally honest and carefree way they can do. Or watching a father cheer on his son at a game at a local park and wondering what it would have been like if that was MY son out there.
Nope! Can't do it. A single male watching kids play has just GOT to be a paedophile just planning his attack. It can't possibly be a childless, but moral male "stopping to smell the roses" for a minute and enjoying seeing some children at play.
Do you know what it does to your soul when you see a child fall and hurt themselves, or seem to be lost and scared at a mall, and YOU HAVE TO WALK AWAY instead of helping? Some years back, I was in a chain grocery store and child near me was messing with a display that fell. The child started crying and the mother came rushing over and actually said " What did you do to my child?!" Do you think saying " but I didn't do anything! I was just here when they knocked over the cans!" carried any weight?
A teacher friend of mine int he Philly school system told me that they are trained to stand rigid and put their arms in the air and call for an assistant if a child tries to give them a hug.
My God! What are we doing to our society?
It's no wonder we have kids more comfortable with their computers than with people.
umm hello people she just said something to the employee, she didn't say hey I just saw that guy molest someone, she said probably something like there's some skeevy guy in the kids section just so you know. She reported something its b and n that overreacted not her, well maybe a little ,but seriously she didn't call the media either and slander his name, he put this out here for everyone to see
@Jim, I hope you stood up to that mother. Sounds like she's the type of "mother" can't be bothered to keep an eye on her child in the grocery store, and blames the nearest passerby. Unbelievable.
I am with you Isis. Every parent needs to be cautious but not neurotic or psychotic about people around their kids
He shouldn't have to sue the company. He just wants an honest apology from corporate headquarters saying that ordering him out of the store was not appropriate, that the management of the particular B&N store will be educated about such things, and that B&N welcomes him back. If B&N doesn't have its corporate head in the wrong place, it will quickly issue such an apology.
Maybe this was not just gender discrimination. Would he have been ejected if he weren't perceived as an "old geezer" but rather was a clean-shaved, handsome, wrinkle-free executive-looking guy in a business suit?
I don't have kids, and have no desire to have kids, but I still think adults of either gender have no place loitering in the children's section. I've occasionally found myself shopping there for books, and it feels weird (as a 24 year old woman) to be in there by myself even if I go directly to what I want, grab it, and leave. It'd be like chilling out in the children's play area at the mall; you really shouldn't just sit around there as an unaccompanied adult.
If this had turned out another way, and the woman had told the store employees of a guy who creeped them out in the children's section and the employees poo-poo'd it because of discrimination fears, and the guy ended up snatching somebody's kid, can you imagine what would come of that? Not saying this man is a potential kidnapper, but the employees have to treat him like he is once someone brings up a legitimate concern about his continuing, aimless presence in the children's department.
Hmmm.... I've often spent great deals of time in the children's book section, many times without my kids with me. I am old-fashioned - I like to buy books for gifts. Whether they are for my kids, nieces and nephews, or friend's kids, I tend to ask for recommendations, and/or browse for some time. I've been known to sit on the floor in the kid's section perusing a book to see if I find it age-appropriate and interesting. I've stumbled across many great new titles that way. But evidently, I'm doing this all wrong. In order to not appear to be a predator, I should run in to the kid's section, grab the first book I see, and run out? This is TOTALLY different than hanging out around a playground. There is legitimate reason for anybody - whether they have kids with them or not - to be in the children's section of a book store. When my kids were little, B&N was a favorite destination, and we often spent a great deal of time there picking out new books. I tended to spend my time watching my kids and how they were behaving, rather than obsessing over the other shoppers in the store.
Except he wasn't there, perusing books or finding great new titles. He was sitting against a wall staring into the children's section. I know when I'm on the phone my eyes will idly track movement, just because I'm fidgety and like to know what's going on around me. Most people I know are the same way. And you know what that looks like to the average person? It looks like you're staring at kids, and potentially faking a phone call to look like you're doing something else. Watch your kids all you want, but I guarantee if some dude was sitting against a wall staring at one of them, you'd notice.
If I can't go to the children's section at my age (63) and with my beard (that I have had since I was 19), then how am I supposed to buy books for my granddaughter and our soon-to-be-born grandson? Would you throw me out of the salad bar at the grocery store when I only want a salad for lunch if I stop to take a call? Would you throw me out of the doctor's office because I have to wait an extra 30-60 minutes for my appointment to be called? Would you throw me out of my neighborhood because I stop to talk to my neighbors (most of whom have children)? Would you throw me off the train because I opt to sit down for my ride? Would you throw me off the soccer field at church because I stop to watch part of the next game after the one in which my son and I coach a team?
Where does our incredibly, abominably stupid paranoia stop and common sense set in? I worked retail for almost 40 years and never had to deal with an incident as stupid as this one. I simply stopped, asked the patron if he or she needed help, and then moved away if they didn't have a specific request. The attention was enough to move potential shoplifters and others out of the store and let legitimate shoppers know that I was there to help them if needed.
Barnes and Noble, where I shop for books for myself and my granddaughter regularly, deparately needs to institute a training program for their employees if this is the incredibly stupid reaction that it appears to be.
Female shoppers need to lose the hysteria, get a life, and realize that not every male in the world is a pedophile.
He says he was taking a call, not "staring into the children's section." Where did that observation come from? Were you there? Maybe you're the woman who complained to the store clerk.
And the fact that you're not comfortable shopping for gifts for children isn't relevant to anything else. Perhaps you should be shopping exclusively online.
Chi where do you get the idea that he wasn't looking for books? He stated he was looking for books FOR HIS GRANDCHILDREN and he got the phone call. He should sue not only B & N, the clerk, he should also find the customer and sue her as well. I am sick to death of these paranoid folks who wouldn't do anything if something really happened or would turn a blind eye if it was a family member who was molesting their child. Also I am sick of folks thinking it's only men who could be pedophile, watch the damn news and see it is women also. Moron
chi...you need help for your paranoia, really, get help.
What if they felt you "looked" gay and decided that it was inappropriate for you to be in the family section? I am sure that person would feel that they have the right to sue. But as a male, I have to deal with societies view of me, and accept it. Why? I am sick and tired of all of the one sided thinking our society has.
The kids section is where the kids books are shelved, it's not a section designed as a kids playground, just like the automotive book section is not for mechanics to hangout and rebuild motors. Just like the dairy section of a grocery store isn't designed for everyone other then the lactose intolerant to visit.
Actually BP the more I considered your post, the more
I agreed. Kids should not just be hanging out unsupervised. We have long haunted bookstores. They have provided the environment. Coffee, readings, they made it a destination. We goto the kids section, god forbidvwithbthe kids in tow. How does that make me a pervert?
Sorry but if you ain't there with a kid you don't really have any reason to be in the kids book section unless:
A) You are actually looking for a kids book.
B) You are just starting to learn how to read and then again - be actively looking for book.
As a parent I don't want some adult just hanging out in the kids book section but that goes for women or men...
Did you read the article? He was looking for a book.
Since he was actually looking for a kid's book, then I guess he had a reason to be there.
You need to work on your reading comprehension skills. He WAS looking for books.
I used to work at a Borders book store. We had people in there who came in when we opened and left when we closed. Why do you think coffee bars went into book stores back in the 90s.
People are ridiculous.
Oh WA,WA, sounds like he is in his second childhood. What are ya doin in the kids book section setting on the floor talking on the phone anyhow??? Go outside!
All he did was make himself look like pervert. Get over it!
O Lord I beseech you, please have the idiot Jim falsely accused of child molestation by a paranoid female.
See, any reasonable adult who had any sense of self would have an employee politely approach them in the children's section and would be like, "Oh man, I do look like a creeper here loitering in the children's section, don't I? Sorry! I didn't even think about it. Do you mind if I snag the books I came here for and check out?"
I wasn't there, but judging from his absolute lack of ability to see what the problem is as displayed in this article, I bet he was all, "What, I'm just talking here on my cell phone, what's the problem? I shouldn't have to leave! There's nothing wrong with me being here!" so he got asked to leave.
@ChibiShi
If you don't have kids, you don't know a thing about this incident. Buying presents for child relatives is always done without the children present. And it is common behavior in a Barnes and Noble to talk on a cell phone.
This grandfather did nothing wrong at all, and the store's treatment of him was blatantly discriminatory.
Gosh ChibiShi...I guess you are very familiar with children's books if you could rush in and grab what you want. Couldn't that be considered a little creepy as well?
If I were shopping for a children's book I'd need to take time to look them over and make sure the gift I was giving was appropriate for the child. And don't even suggest that a guy go to a library and hang out in the children's section to check them out! Sheesh...what is this world coming to? Everyone will have to shop online because we are so suspicious of each other.
Falls right in with the conspiracy theorists...divide and conquer! So busy finger pointing at each other we don't see what is happening. All the magicians know the trick.
Wise Pati thank you. I buy a lot of books for my nieces and nephews and I do like the fact that a lot of the books now come with the age/reading guide on some of the books, but not all. When one of my nieces was reading Junie B books, it was very common for me to call her and ask her if she read the following so I wouldn't get her one she read.
chi..can I turn you into the authorities because I think your definiton of "reasonable adult" is questionable and not normal???? Based on all of YOUR posts, it could very easily happen to you if you don't pass my idea of normal.
Chi: All this could have been solved if the employee would have exercised a little bit of common sense and approached this grandpa and asked "Can I help you with something?"
I buy books for my daughter and I will spend sometime in the kid's section of the book store. Sometimes I do it with her, but sometimes I will go on my own and purchase books for everyone in the family. I have worked in retail for more than 15 years and I always exercised common sense when approaching a tricky situation.
You don't have to be a jerk kicking someone without knowledge. For those other geniuses here posting that they are loitering or not, have you ever worked in a big store environment?
What's next? Don't go to Toys r' us if you are not accompanied by a minor? Or don't go to the children/toys/baby section at Walmart or Kmart if you are by yourself? Will I have to show my daughter's birthday certificate in order to purchase in B&N now? Stupid example of customer service. Stupider example of people overreacting.
Middle Eastern Omar Amin looking to supplement is retirement
A retired doctor wants to supplement his retirement. Yeah right.
Gender discrimination, pure and simple. A self-appointed female judge is allowed to wander through the store and decide which males can stay and which males she finds to be "too disturbing". And then B&N falls all over themselves trying to please her. Disgusting. F B&N.
Would it have been better if it was a self appointed male judge? If a father had pointed the guy out to employees rather than a mother? Talk about gender discrimination.
Thats because men don't tend to get overblown until there is actually smoke to a fire. Had it been a women by herself would we have heard anything? Heck no. talk about not understanding the issues.
Sure, Adam. And yet here you big, non-emotional men are, freaking out over how overprotective and overzealous women are in protecting their kids, when all that happened to this guy is he was asked to leave the store. He wasn't arrested, or banned for life. Just asked to leave. And here you all are, "Look at what WOMEN DO."
You're accusing this woman of being a paranoid overprotective mother when she had no details, and you're being a paranoid and sexist man when you have no details.
Please do look in the mirror, you evenly tempered, completely levelheaded, unflappable man, you.
So you're apparently priviledged to have the details the rest of us don't?
You are correct Adam. If a man had loudly complained about a woman "loitering", he would have been ignored. This is a double standard concept that is too complicated for sexists like ChibiShi to grasp.
ok chi - what the f is wrong with you?
Why do you think this woman had the right to any DETAILS ?
The man was shopping for chrissakes, why should HE have to prove or justify his presence in a retail establishment - and where's your sense of outrage that SHE WAS WRONG ????
I think you're a nut case just looking for a fight. Thank God you don't have kids. (Are you an ex-nun ? You sound familiar.)
They could have had a sales associate go into the children's area, straightening books or such, observing him. If he was a Perv he would have left. Not that difficult to resolve.
EXACTLY! I used to work in a bookstore, and if anyone was lingering for a long time in ANY section, not just children's we would go over and ask if they needed help finding something, shelving around them, etc. Usually to prevent theft, but it's effective, whatever the reason.
Exactly quiet one and brother seamus.
Having worked for B&N previously, there always used to be an employee in the children's section due to the sheer volume of clean-up associated with the area. However, I am sure that with the tough economic pressures B&N is under, it was more cost effective to cut the $8/hr children's section employee so the members of the board could still get their bonuses.
Don't go back to the store - almost all of the B&N's have closed in Chicago (Thank God!)
it's another business that will be gone soon; closely followed by Best Buy and Macy's
PatseShi:
Whatever beef you may have with Barnes & Noble and other chains is irrelevant to the issue under discussion. Why would you be grateful for store closings? They cost jobs. Or are you just against reading and books?
I think the woman was overreacting...if he wasn't leering over children's shoulders or talking to them or touching them, then there's no need to worry.
I was more disturbed when I was at Barnes & Noble and saw a 10-12 year old boy looking at books in the Relationship/Sex section of the store...where were HIS parents??
So he could've had his pants around his ankles, or be touching himself... as long as he's not within arm's distance of a child, that's all cool with you? It doesn't fit into your predetermined categories, after all! Good to know, in case I ever get a weird desire to perv on small children.
Oh, wait, you mean it's not as black and white as all that? Of course it's not. A person can be a creeper without being immediately next to a child.
I like the assumption you're making repeatedly that he is actually a child molestor, and dozens of children were saved from him by the store publically outing him.
And speaking of which, how many children were actually present at the time, with or without parents?
Since you seem to know all of the details the rest of us don't.
Chi, let me ask you something.. how many kids who are missing/raped/killed by a parent/parents/family or friends vs. stranger?
How can you tell this man was a pervert? What if he is not? What about the so called normal people who get caught up in stings? What about all the normal looking teachers who have gotten in trouble, the priests, ministers, scout leaders, cops, etc who have been busted.
I think part of the problem with this is that parents think the children's book area is a dump for their kids while they have a cup of coffee at Starbucks. No it's not. Keep an eye on your damn kids and stop being paranoid.
You know Chibi, if I went by statistics and the news, you're much more likely to molest your kids than some strange guy in a bookstore. Does that mean when I see you give your kids a hug at B&N I can call you a molester and have you kicked out, maybe call social services too?
After reading several of ChibiShii's posts... I'm kind of getting the impression that they like the idea of perverts. Maybe some fetish fantasy of being masturbated to by some creeper.
I am just gla Chi does not want kids.
@e6o1: I was more disturbed when I was at Barnes & Noble and saw a 10-12 year old boy looking at books in the Relationship/Sex section of the store...where were HIS parents??
Disturbed?? Are you kidding me?! What kind of prude are you? Why is NORMAL CURIOSITY so disturbing to you? Children at that age, sometimes younger children will show a curiosity about their bodies and sexuality, and there is NOTHING "disturbing" about that. I would be concerned if he WASN'T a little curious. You sound like you are extremely REPRESSED, you sound like you have a SHAME COMPLEX about sexuality and the human body. God forbid, that a developing 10-12 year old boy would want to know about the facts of life right?
There are many possible reasons that boy was reading those books:
1. His parents haven't given him the talk yet, so he's taking matters into his own hands, and good for him.
2. His parents HAVE discussed sex with him, and have encouraged him to read about it, to learn about it.
3. NORMAL CURIOSITY.
I cannot believe the shame complexes in this country. I CANNOT EVEN FATHOM how disgustingly twisted in on itself that society has become, where prudes like you are so horrified by a boy educating himself about sex. This is 2012, people this sort of thing should NOT be so taboo.
I sincerely hope that you do not have children, and if you do, I would imagine that your kids cannot come to you with those sorts of questions, because you would be "disturbed" by it.
No adults allowed unless accompanied by a child.
So I wouldn't be able to buy books for my kids unless they were with me? Kind of hard to pick up birthday or Christmas presents that way. And my best friend, who doesn't have kids, would only be allowed to buy kids books online without actually being able to take a look at the book? The no adult without kids rule makes sense in children's playgrounds, but not in a bookstore where people have legitimate reason to be in the children's section. Maybe if people watched their kids, instead of viewing B&N as a surrogate babysitter, this wouldn't be as much of an issue?
Because only grand generalizations can solve our problems.
A bookstore is not a kids play zone. I sat in the kids book area at the library because there was no other place to sit because it was crowded. I never got any dirty looks. And even if I did, there was no signs saying it was an adult free area.
It is sad that we must be concerned with strangers who appear to be lurking around children for no apparent reason, but unfortunately our children are at risk anywhere they go and the kids' section at B&N is no exception. If we had more people who had the courage to report suspicious individuals hanging around where innocent children are playing, maybe there would be fewer perverts on the streets and maybe more parents would take precautions to keep their kids safer. This grandfather should be grateful that there are total strangers who are brave enough to call into question something or someone that seems odd or out of place.
But only adult males, right?
disgusted, that way of thinking leaves you open to some wild interpretations of suspicious individuals,doesn't it? What if someone thinks YOU are suspicious looking? Everyone on this message board could then really agree that you are disgusting.
OMfrickingod - disgusted is right - but with you and that attitude !
You think she had courage?
Now he should be thanking her for reporting him?
You're as crazy as this chi person on this board.
and yes , I have kids and grandkids.
In the area I live in near Tracy, Ca. they had a recent killing of a little girl if you remember. The killer a woman Sunday School teacher. If you want to be afraid of everyone, make sure you include both sexes.
You are off your rail. Paranoid. Lease get help
I think B&N shouldn't allow children of either sex into the store. A bookstore is not a daycare center.
So you'd rather have children banned from B&N for YOUR piece of mind? Just because other people's children are some sort of "inconvenience" to you? Get real. If you don't want to deal with children when you're at a bookstore, or ANYWHERE in public, stay home.
Where children are concern I think it best that we ALL err on the side of caution. An older gentleman sitting alone in the children's section is suspicious. I may not have spoken to an employee but I certainly would have kept any children in my care away from him and in my sight.
Sorry if someone's pride is scratched but I'd prefer your pride be scratched than a hair on any child's hair be bent or bruised. Get over yourself, AMIN. And be aware of that someone might preceive and impropriety and guard against. Look around you at the world we live in. Don't expect people to know who and what you are at the expense of there children.
I don't know why you would let children roam the children's section alone in any situation. Too many times they run wild and disturb others. And the children's section was never intended to be a "drop off" zone.
But this gentleman should not have to leave the store due to your paranoia. If you have an issue, you leave.
liz, not fooled clearly stated that she would watch the children that were in her care as opposed to speaking to an employee about this man. That is a very reasonable reaction to the circumtances.
Why would little kids be crawling over some strange man in a bookstore, or the reverse? If you are doing what you should be doing, which is helping your child select a book so you can take it home, then you wouldn't be concerned what some man is doing in the area. A child molester isn't going to touch your kid while you are sitting next to your kid. To be anywhere else is bad parenting on your part. A bookstore or any other business is a daycare for your kids while you run off doing others things elsewhere in the store.
I am a mom, and before that, a teacher. I have shopped without a child at my side in the children's department of Barnes and Noble more times than I can count. I never had anyone question my right to be there.
This is gender discrimination, pure and simple. As a previous poster said, if the staff was so worried, they could have assigned someone to "clean" the area as long as the man was there.
See Folks heres whats going on in going down the drain quickly, Politically Incorrect, hear the toilet flushing America. The other day two female soldiers flopped out there milk sacks to feed what was supposedly there kids an afternoon snack. We have these Agenda Clowns all over the Country. Whaaaaa whaaaaaa I want to feed my baby whaaaaaa whaaaaaaa whaaaaaaaaa put me in the News. How about this folks. They claim this is a natural function. Well taking a wizzzz and taking a crap is a natural function also. How about we all just pick our territory on a public street and let it fly. Maybe this clown wanted to relive his youth. If he's a Pedophile then throw him in the Grey Bar Hotel. If he isn't, then he deserves a check for a couple million. As for all of the rest of you natural function Politically Correct losers, I hope while you are doing your milk sack display for all the World to see, someone comes along and leaves a nice steaming hot log within your Politically Correct proximity. Oh and for all of you that are offended by everything thing thats going on? Stay home. Please. Stay home.
Feeding your child breastmilk is not a natural function like urination or defecation- unless you drink your pee and eat your own......well you get the point.
A better analogy would be to eat lunch.
@ The Banker
Exactly right!
Breast feeding is fine, but one should be discreet. Some women just want attention any way they can get it. I sure haven't appreciated the shock value picture's of the soldier w/twins and the Time's cover. At the least the one soldier was discreet. Fifteen minutes of fame.
See, this post is funny. You're ranting about how everyone's so PC and easily offended, while the OTHER half of your rant heavily implies that you're offended by breast feeding in public! Pick a side of the fence, please. I imagine you're getting awfully chafed by riding it like that.
Hey Liz. I believe anything that works off your body is a function. It takes the correct biological combinations to produce the effect. You just don't understand. Thats okay. We understand.
Quiet One, Thank you for being a voice of common sense and reason. If this practice is acceptable, then why do they cover up all the magazines in the 7-11's. Country is full of AgendaMeisters.
Hey, Chibijeebe, You must not be American. See we have various ways of explaining sarcasm with a touch of fact and fallacy. You should brush up on reading comprehension. Read the complete article, maybe a couple times.
Do not feed the trolls....
No kidding!
100 % right Jim - thanks for the reminder.