E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSChicago police received a surprise this week when they reportedly found a three-year-old girl holding a handgun during a routine traffic stop.
NBC Chicago
Queshawn King was stopped last week in Chicago.
Police pulled a car of six people over in East Garfield Park, a community in the west side of Chicago, last Wednesday night . Two children were seated inside, with no car seats or seat belts, police said. When the officer approached the vehicle, he saw the 19-year-old driver, Queshawn King, making "furtive" downward movements to the three-year-old, the Chicago Tribune reported, citing police.
An officer then asked the man, who was described as "nervous," to step out of the car. He heard King yell to the toddler by her nickname, "Fatty" multiple times.
Read more on the toddler on NBCChicago.com
A police sergeant approached the front passenger side of the car and saw the child holding the handgun. When he tried to retrieve it, she threw the 9 mm weapon to the floor.
It was loaded with eight rounds, but did not discharge, police said.
King was charged with felony unlawful use of a weapon for having a loaded weapon inside the vehicle, misdemeanor endangering the life and health of a child, and misdemeanor possession of a firearm without a valid FOID (Firearms Owner's Identification) card.
Besides King and the young girl, four other people were in the car, including another child, the 3-year old's mother, grandmother and a man who was behind the wheel.
The other occupants of the car reportedly told the police the gun did not belong to them, the Tribune reported.
King was subsequently taken to Cook County Jail Thursday after a judge set his bail at $50,000, according to the Cook County sheriff's office.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
- Jurors chosen in trial of ex-Penn State assistant coach Sandusky
- Army policy makes it difficult for soldiers to get service dogs
- Public transit ridership rises sharply, advocacy group reports
- $63.5 million Wisconsin recall is most expensive in state's history
- One dead, 7 hurt in shooting at Toronto mall
- Killer's corpse dragged from car, eaten by bear
Leave a Comment:
Any one of those other adults could and should have taken the gun away from the little girl. I feel they all should have been charged with negligence, as they could not have failed to notice that she had the gun.
Hey, it happened in Chicago.
Wait a minute....isn't this the same place with all the violence and the Mayor will not venture across the street from his office to a restaurant for a lunch break because of the violence ?
$ 50,000 bail seems a bit low. How about $ 500,000.
The guy's name is Queshawn, and the little girl's nickname is "Fatty"? Talk about starting off life with a major handicap.
Was he pointing to the girl to say that he was speeding because the girl was holding him hostage with a gun? LMAO!
Not sure who has the funnier name, Queshawn or Fatty.
"...and a man who was behind the wheel."
WTF?
What adults? There weren't any present.
I'm sure FATTY was a NICKNAME....you people amaze me!
@skup - There were other people presumably adults in the vehicle.
"Besides King and the young girl, four other people were in the car, including another child, the 3-year old's mother, grandmother and a man who was behind the wheel."
Wow, what horrible writting for a journalist. Even my 13 year old can write better. Wasn't the man behind the wheel, King?
The little girl was probably just on her way to do a little target practice. You have to start training them young in these tough neighborhoods. :)
If Queshawn was driving,how was another man behind the wheel?.
they gave her the gun so they could say its not mine!
THE COPS SAY THAT Que.was driving but another man was behind the wheel and that there were three other adults in the auto so how did the arrive at the conclusion that the gun belonged to Que.,sounds to me like these cops are lying,and might have planted the gun themselves.
This reeks on so many levels of STUPID it is not even funny. I agree with Kitty1985, all "alleged" adults in the car should have been charged with neglegence.
Absolutely.....have a heart, people....after all, her real name was probably much worse...and harder to pronounce:
"Da'Qenisheia Mon'Naquice"
.....and let's not forget the other "adults' in the vehicle: SLEEPY , GRUMPY and DOPEY
Good thing its didn't happen in CA . The little girl would be dead and the police would claim she moved the gun and they were in fear for their life.
or in Florida. They would have tried the 'Stand Your Ground' law.
Bad writing. I took it that Queshawn was driving and got out of the vehicle and another male slid behind the wheel as the officer went around the front of the vehicle to where the baby was playing with the loaded 9millimeter.
No wonder kids grow up to be thugs! Kids follow by example! She probably says the F word multiple times now, he looks like a dude with a foul mouth, like a rapper! This is where the kids should be taken away! Lucky the girl didn't shoot off the gun!
HA! AINT THAT THE TRUTH IN CALI SHE WOULD HAVE BEEN SHOT FOR SURE SCARED COPS HERE IN CALI WOULD HAVE SHOT HER DEAD, DEF WOULD HAVE SHOT HER WHEN SHE THREW THE GUN ON THE GROUND!
Skup reread the article
After I posted, I realize skup was being sarcastic about the adults which I do agree. There was none.
Great, now we have to support this waste of life with 3 meals a day, a cot, warm showers, books, laundry service, health care, etc.
fatty's got a gun...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_KytLO2WME
In Chicago what do you call a 3 year old without an arrest record..................a slow learner.
all should have been arrested for felony possession 2 years mandatory for an illegal handgun,no bail on a mandatory!
Queshawn reminds me of the sound that a butt makes when it is plopped down into a vinyl upholstered chair. But, hey, he is the king.
Totally agree that the mother, grandmother, & other man should have also been charged, at least for negligence & child endangerment! The article's writing is lame-- 2 guys behind the wheel, no age of the other child, did Q.K. admit it was his gun? etc. At least the original NBC-Chicago article stated why the car was initially stopped-- officers observed the kid(s) moving about in the vehicle. Don't know, as some have suggested, that the police planted the gun in the car -- the reporting on this is bad enough that I wouldn't want to entirely trust its info.
I don't understand anyone making fun of another person's name, though I can understand why one would marvel at such a kind nickname as "Fatty". Too much prejudiced or crass insulting going on here.
The other adults names were Lemonjello and Orangejello and Urine. Pronounced "le-Mon-jel-O" "O-ran-jel-O" and "U-reen"
danimyl, thepunisher-2054749 - Anyone who give a loaded gun to three year old they nicknamed after a joint doesn't qualify as being an adult.
"King was charged with felony unlawful use of a weapon for having a loaded weapon inside the vehicle, misdemeanor endangering the life and health of a child,"
Engandering the life of a child is a misdemeaner?! Obama would be so proud.I'm sure these leaches of society are getting their fair share of my tax dollars. This is who the great liberal nation wants to give America's money away to.
What a poor job by this journalist. Marty couldn't even get the name of the town correct. He reported this happened in Chicago. Couldn't have been - guns are illegal in Chicago.
Yeah, those gun laws are working real well for Chicago there. Make that Illinois in general.
Trayvon's Revenge! Was the infant wearing a hoodie and flashing gang signs???
I'm sure this whole thing is "jus one big axident"
"Simpson's Did It!" - (General Disarray)
How dumb do you have to be to call a female with a 9mm Fatty?
@Cet2011.
I don't think GUNS are the problem. Stupid people are. This just goes to show gun laws don't work. He still had a gun, while other people responsible enough to own a gun have no protection from idiots like these. criminals do not buy and register guns they either steal or buy stolen guns off the street so they can't be traced, same as they would do if you was not allowed to have a gun. Look at how well we have done with illegal drugs, you can't own them or buy them at a store, so I guess there is no drugs on the street? not sure what world you are from but where I live banning or making something illegal does not make it go away. home made guns would also be easier to make at at home then drugs and cheaper to make, you get the point? the ones doing wrong would still have guns, and they would not have to worry as much about breaking into a house and being greated with a 12 gauge. We don't need to ban guns, maybe we need to ban stupid people from multiplying.
The po-lice were just picking on a brutha. No reason to stop the vehicle despite the officer noticing that neither child in the car was strapped in and the 3 y.o. was in the front seat.
"And if I had a son he'd act just like Queshawn."
Maybe baby called shotgun.
and somehow MORE guns in this country are the answer? sigh
yeah. Since the government wont station a cop IN MY HOUSE to watch my family and follow them around when criminals like these folks go around armed every day and everyplace they go, I think giving law abiding citizens the means to defend themselves is exactly what we need to be doing
Guns are not the problem
Stupid Dumb ass people who do not know anything about guns are.
More guns or less guns doesn't chang ethe fact these so called grown ups are ignorant and should not be trusted with a childs safety. I have guns yet my children have never seen them, let alone hold one of them while it was loaded. I can't believe you're blaming the gun for these morons.
Cet: "and somehow MORE guns in this country are the answer? sigh"
You are correct! Last week the gun nuts were whining about how Chicago had such RESTRICTIVE WRONG gun control. Yea right! Even 3 year-olds have LOADED guns in Chicago--but that's not enough guns for some. *sigh* *sigh* *sigh!*
When we will we enough guns to satisfy these nuts?
Logic: " I can't believe you're blaming the gun for these morons."
I don't blame the gun for the morons. I blame the MORONS for the GUNS!!!
Too Bad! gun control only prevents law abiding people from getting guns. Criminals steal them...
I'm SURE Queshawn was just on his way to the police station to turn in his illegal gun.
"...He's a good boy. A wonderful father. He was in to some bad things but he was trying to change his ways..."
Any other welfare recipient quotes you'd like?
Gun control????? The answer to this particular situation should have been BIRTH CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There should be a law against giving a three year-old a loaded gun.
Yes, because I'm sure if there was a law against not giving a three year old a gun this guy obviously would have followed it.
That should be a felony, period. When you give a 3 year old a gun to hold so you can say it's not yours. In the klink you go.
"What" (Msg. #3.4), your comment proves the point of those whom you disparage. Chicago DOES have extremely restrictive, not to say draconian anti-gun laws, and...
AND THEY CAN'T EVEN KEEP GUNS OUT OF THE HANDS OF 3 YEAR OLDS!
Want proof that "anti-gun laws" don't work? Read your own message.
Exactly. What's the problem? Fatty was just exercising her 2nd amendment right. She has to protect herself from the bad toddlers with guns.
This isn't a gun control issue. Not even close. Clearly this guy or someone else in the car made a poor decision and let this kid handle a firearm. There's nothing you can do to legislate responsibility or common sense. Morons gonna moron.
"When we will we enough guns to satisfy these nuts?"
When you learn how to write. Too many of you unedumacated morons in this world.
They were going to get in line for the gun buy back program. $100.00 no questions asked. Baby needs a new pair of shoes. (...but they should at least ask if it is loaded.)
My kids have been shooting since they were strong enough to pull the trigger and old enough to understand dead is forever.
Yes thats what we need more gun control, never mind the fact its practically illegal to own or have a pistol in Chicago much less giving a loaded pistol to a toddler, those laws were meant to be broken. Now if we write more gun control laws, im sure this never would have happened, after all criminals always obey the law, unless its meant to be broken..
Criminals steal them from people who own them legally. I had a neighbour who owned an arsenal, who had his house broken into while he was out of town. Although they also took his TV and stereo, it was probably his gun collection that made his house a target in the first place. Now there are some very well armed burglars running around. I'm certain we'd all be collectively safer if he never owned them in the first place.
@ Aaron-2818923
You got it! If there was ever a need for a law that states you have to have a license and be financially sound enough to bear children, that would be it!! Just because you CAN (have kids), doesn't mean you SHOULD!! Ahhh, but there are those 2 dirty words that todays society doesn't want to hear... Accountibility and Responsibility. Turn those suggestions into laws and watch the turn-around begin....
I don't think Queshawn intentionally gave the gun to Fatty,I think he was trying to stash it quickly and Fatty just grabbed it up,which is still a careless move.
Everybody knows that this is a black family thanks to Queshawn's mother. Black or white if I had to travel in Chicago I"d be armed,I'd be armed if I was the local preacher or a felon. The gun laws in Chicago are out ragious. They don't allow for people to have basic protection. This kid probibally thought he was doing his family a favor by having a gun on him in case something happened.
Is anyone really surprised by this?
No Attorney General Eric Holder and his cronies (Obama) sell them to this criminals, they don't need to steal them
@nosferatu---My Queshawn is a good boy. He gave me a card for Mudder's Day. He stoll it all by hisself.
To all of you people who say we'd be "safer" without guns, you are stupid!!! You can call me inflammatory if you want, but you are. Our country was founded on the idea that every law-abiding citizen has the right to arm himself (or herself) as a basic right to defend ones-self. When you manage to disarm Al-Queda, Iran, North Korea, and every other enemy we have in this country, then MAYBE I'll listen to your arguments. Here's one for you, if nobody had any guns except the military, what stops the military from starting a coup? Ever think of that? Ok, so 1 guy had his guns stolen... must not have been locked up very well huh? I'm sure arms dealers have NOTHING to do with the illegal gun problem. You people seriously disgust me. I'm all for gun regulation, safety, and education. I'm for stricter control/regulation in more densley populated areas (like Chicago, NY, or LA), but you can't make a blanket statement to get rid of guns when you also have rural Montana and Idaho (as an example only) mixed in the geographic area of your statement. I personally don't own a gun this moment, but if I did, and someone broke into my home with the intent to harm me or my family, the cops wouldn't need to hurry to get there. I take solace in the fact that as an American, I am able to rely on myself for my own security and defense.
Human Beings are territorial animals, we may have a higher intellect than all other animals, but we are still animals. We have fought each other over land and property for the entirety of our existence on this planet, just as every other animal has to some extent. To think that will suddently just stop is the epitome of naivety, but if you don't want the option to defend yourself, your family, and your property, that is your right. But leave your grubby paws off of my rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
And to all of you who say that guns are the reason for this problem, we also have a spelling and grammar problem in this country too. By your logic, we can solve that by eliminating keyboards and pens, better education wouldn't have anything to do with it.
mattyg,et.al. Please allow me to clarify this entire discussion. If you don't have a firearm,everything you own is mine. All I have to do is take it. I'm not about to do such a thing,as I have enough problems taking care of what I already own,but there are other people who don't have that problem,and would certainly like to have whatever it is of yours that they like. Please accept your personal responsibility to protect your own family. The police have a pretty clear record of NOT being at the scene when a crime is being commited.
You can't fix stupid.
Nope, but you can at least try to have a civilization doesn't encourage stupid people to own guns.
No, that's why we allow abortion. Guess we missed one.
Ignorance is bliss. Ashame too!
@nosferatu-499026 - Nope, we missed a car full of stupid.
If Queshawns mother had an abortion could she have collected the reward from crimestoppers?
So where's the NRA defending this guy's rights to own a firearm without government interference? Doesn't he have a second ammendment right to carry like all other law-abiding gun owners?
Can't own a handgun in Chicago, so no he does not have a right to carry that.
Alverant - I am a strong NRA supporter but I immediately thought of this another way. This guy is NOT a law abiding citizen - he has a gun in his car, but actual law abiding citizens in Illinois cannot. A lot of good restrictive firearms laws do in Illinois and Chicago !!
Proving the old saying yet once again -
"If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns !!"
Alverant, Queshawn is 19 years old. It's against the law for him at that age to own a handgun. It's also Chicago... which means he can't carry a firearm without a permit...I am not up on all their carry laws but I believe it's almost impossible to get one. You sound so stupid in your attempt to blame the NRA for someone who clearly belongs behind bars.. But to answer your question, don't worry... some liberal lawyer will do his darnest to defend King and that he does as little time in the pen as he can.
The NRA wants these people locked up for as long as possible as King is far from being a law abiding citizen. . Just shows that you don't know jack.
habs: "Can't own a handgun in Chicago, so no he does not have a right to carry that."
I don't think that's true. If it were, how could he be charged with "misdemeanor possession of a firearm without a valid FOID (Firearms Owner's Identification) card." Seems all you need is a valid FOID to have a firearm in Chicago, correct?
Good ol dog: "Proving the old saying yet once again - "If you outlaw guns, only the outlaws will have guns !!"
Ye Haw! Yea! Let's give everyone guns--including 3 year olds--and while we're at it--let's legalize murder. After all, making murder illegal doesn't prevent it, right?
to What - allow law abiding citizens to have firearms.
Look at it this way - he has a gun and you don' t.
If HE chooses to do you harm just because he wants to, when police arrive at the scene, whose body will be sent to the coroner - his or yours ??
The problem with this, is that it assumes that the ONLY people who committ crimes either with firearms, or by handling firearms wrong or innappropriately, are life long criminals. It doesn't take into account any OTHER type of crime or criminal, except the career sociopath.
There are many, generally, law abiding people, who legally own guns, and STILL end up committing crimes with them.
I can only speak for myself, but it isn't really the guns I have the issue with, it's the false arguments and fear mongering. If you wanna own a gun, own a gun, but please don't spout off about self defense, crime prevention, or ensuring our freedom. Those arguments don't hold water.
Crime prevention needs to be looked at through the lens of a hybrid social science that includes criminology, victimology, sociology, and psychology. You can't simply say, "Guns make criminals think twice." No, they don't. Crime is motivated by all sorts of different social and cultural factors, by all sorts of different individuals, and each crime comitted by each criminal is different. Guns would only make them think twice if each criminal and each crime was rational.
Self defense also needs to be taken a case at a time. There are only a few instances, under an alignment of a perfect set of circumstances where a gun would work. Think about it... Timing, location,the circumstances of the crime, the mental capacity of the victim, the lifestyle of the victim, the relationship between the victim and the perpetrator... I could go on and on. An example, drive by shootings, a completely innocent person caught in one, is dead, long before they could pull a gun. Rape? Most rape is acquaintance rape, where victims tend to freeze or not even realize what's happening until it's too late.
And the government, really? First, who are these people, that we voted into office I might add, that want to usurp our liberty? Why would they want to destroy the very system that gives them their power? Why wouldn't checks and balances stop them? How would they go about doing this? Would they get our military to join them? If so, why would our military WANT to? If not, why wouldn't we use our military to stop them? Think about it. The 2nd Amendment was written when a red coat or "injun" could literally show up at your door, with zero notice, and kill you, while help was days, if not weeks, away. Now we have radar, cell phones, police, national guards, and we're all pretty much crammed into cities or suburbs.
If we want to cure childhood obesity, no one proposes that we build a MacDonald's on every corner to teach kids self restraint? So why do people assume that if we want to fix gun violence, we need to add more guns? And no one ever brings up the people killed with LEGAL firearms.
I hate to break it to some of you, but we no longer live in the 1700's. Tri-Corn hats are no longer the "hip" thing. "Injuns" aren't coming to scalp you. And if the "Redcoats" try to invade again, I'm fairly sure we'd win without you and your handguns
Nowhere, and we won't be. The NRA does not support illegal gun ownership, and in case you missed it, this guy didn't have a permit.
Law abiding people do not commit crimes... that's pretty much the definition of 'law abiding'.
Sarah - WOW ! I am very happy for you that you have it all figured out and now you and your family are nice and safe !!
Me ? I'll keep my guns - but thanks anyway !!!
Good,
Is that your way of NOT answering a single point?
Well if he had filed a law suit as McDonald did instead of breaking the law then the NRA might be on his side. Don't expect the NRA to rush to his defense, but you already knew that and just wanted to interject a dumb comment.
Not correct. He isn't old enough to have a FOID, and he didn't have a note from his mother. Below you will find a summary of FOID requriements. In addition to the FOID he would have to a permit issued by the city of Chicago and the hand gun has to be registered in Chicago. For transport outside the home, guns would need to be broken down and not trigger ready.
Rene,
So the guy who has no criminal record, and finds his wife in bed with another dude, and shoots them?
The person who snaps one day and climbes a bell tower, who has no prior criminal record?
The random case of road rage?
The people who committ those types of crimes, who've never done anything that would have stopped them from legally purchasing a gun, and who's crimes will be comitted WITH a legally purchased gun???
On any given day, each one of us is capable of ceasing to be law abiding. That's why the statement...
Is misleading. It assumes that "outlaws" are all career criminals, which is contradictory to the truth. Most crime is random and spontaneous.
Interesting how you are so quick to dismiss Sarah without offering a valid argument to counter hers. It is nice that you keep your guns, but Sarah has a valid point that the conditions have to be just right for a gun to offer much protection.
Research has put the number of defensive gun use at 1.5 to 3.1 million times per year, sounds like conditions are frequently just right.
So Back East thinks only liberlas becaome defense lawyers..what a tool...
He does have right to own a gun but FATTY dosen't.At least I don't think so.
So why have a gun if you're not going to use it? It's like buying a car but not planning on ever driving it. Seems like a waste of money - unless you always have one in your hand with your finger on the trigger.
Bassai,
What research? By whom? What are the demographics of the people who participated? Were they all completely innocent? How many unsuccessfull attempts to use a gun in self defense were there? Were there other options these people could have taken? Why is there such a range between the low estimate and high estimate? Out of how many crimes comitted? What were the circumstances under which they were used?
I could go on...
Sarah I live in Missouri where we have conceal and carry. I was leaving a gas station one night when a man ran up and started to beat the young lady walking out of the store behind me. He threw her down, climbed on top of her and was reighning punches down on her face (it turned out they were actually dating and had some sort of argument earlier). This guy was in a rage and twice my size. He could have easily dispatched me and then possibly killed this young lady. I drew my pistol and ordered him to get off her. He jumped and shouted he was going to kill us both before he noticed my firearm. He quicly calmed down and I told him he was either going to jail or the hospital and the choice was his. I am sure this young lady was VERY happy we have CCW here in Missouri and if I had not been there who knows how far that maniac would have taken the attack...
In truth and in fact; The NRA position is for White people and a certain caliber of "Negroes" as the only ones having a right to bear arms. The sad reality is, we are heading back towards Apartheid and many Black people on both sides of the fence are helping.
We must collectively move FORWARD.
The right-wing-Libertarian movement is at present going at Women's Rights. If they win it will be Civil Rights, Voter Rights, The Great Society Rights(Social Security, Medicare and Schooling Desegregation)
See, their VICTORY is to roll America BACKWARDS to a magical age of pure country wonderment, which is a false nostalgia.
Thank goodness the little girl did not point the gun at the cop!
You always do so why stop now?
Dan,
No offense, but personal stories don't mean much. They're not non-partisan, wide reaching, cumulative, statistical analysis. I don't doubt your story, but it doesn't show the real picture. Not to mention, for every one story like yours, there are billions about people safely going to the grocery store.
Bassai,
Because you haven't answered anything.
Do we always need to have this arguement about gun ownership? If you don't like guns don't own one, simple as that. Don't tell me I can't own one and I wont tell you how to raise your dumb kids. It's like everything else, in this country in most parts, we are allowed to own a gun, if you don't like it, you're welcome to move to England. The gun nazies need to get over themeselves, and stop making dumb statements. Don't you guys have better things to worry about, such as hugging a porcupine than to tell us that abide by the law to not own guns?
I doubt that would ever be able to happen Gridlock considering that women and minorities are a much more powerful force than in decades past. That being said, I am sure that many of these groups would much prefer us women stay in the kitchen and out of their work place. I am sure that they feel a bit threatened considering it turns out that not all of us are stupid. Also, really? I am at least reasonably certain that only people of a certain caliber should be having guns. Period. This generally means the intelligence to know when to use it. The people in this article have no business with guns ever.
Where did anyone say you can't own guns? I have no problem with guns. In fact I shot a bunch this weekend. This time I DIDN'T break my thumb, thank you very much, but that's beside the point.
What I don't like, is zealous, illogic. I don't like that. Guns are fine.
Post # 5.8, another post where you said " I could go on and on." You were blathering away before I said anything.
And the answer to the question is NIJ Research In Brief: Guns in America: National Survey on
Private Ownership and Use of Firearms by Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig
Bassai,
From your own source...
Did you forget and leave that part out???
https://www.ncjrs.gov/txtfiles/165476.txt
I guess I should watch my repetition in my writing then, huh?
@Sarah-3043284
Just replying to all the snarky comments about gun ownership. The idiots in this article have broken so many laws, how can one say they abide by the law, lest own guns. If you are posterizing these idiots in this article as to why the rest of us should not own guns, it is just plain ignorant and stupid. Just saying.
Punisher,
I'm not saying the idiots in this article were abiding by the law. They are, for sure, douche nozzles. If you read my posts, they're more directed at the over zealous, and slightly illogical arguments, put forth by, not gun OWNERS, but gun NUTS.
I've never said anyone SHOULDN'T be allowed to own a gun. I'm saying, let's be real about it, instead of using fear mongering to try and justify it.
You can ban guns but you cannot ban the demand for guns. Would you really expect a different outcome than how the ban on illegal drugs has turned out?
We can neither ban guns, nor would I want you to. I just believe that rationality pertaining to guns, as well as an end to the fearmongering, will make us way safer then either OWNING a gun, or BANNING a gun.
@Sarah
Typically I agree with most of what you say on the forums. You seem level headed, open to other people's lifestyles and opinions, etc. I like to think I am the same way. I tend to let people live and let live and believe people should be able to live their lives without judgement from me. Left, right, gay, straight, muslim, christian....on and on...you have a friend in me.
I do disagree with your outlook on gun ownership though. I agree, people should own or not own and keep it to themselves. (I realize the irony that I am now posting my disagreement with you about owning now.) I do own several hunting rifles as well as pistols. The pistols main purpose is target shooting for recreation with my family. I do have a concealed carry license and do carry from time to time. I don't do this to prove that I can or to feel like a tough gun owner. I do this because I would rather be prepared. I have taken classes in pistol defense that focus on high stress situations similar to what law enforcement officers take. I would never carry a pistol unless I thought I could use it responsibly and in the right situation. Knowing when it is better to not use a weapon is a big portion of these classes. I also carry a pistol while hiking in the woods. I am in N Idaho and our woods are not the same as most places in the US. We have the most wilderness and public forest in the lower 48. Running into an animal that might injure me is something I am not comfortable doing without some sort of protection. Your assessment of why people carry is not entirely correct. I feel my reasoning for carrying and owning firearms is responsible and safe. Most people I meet and the topic comes up are very surprised to find out I am a gun owner as I do not flaunt it.
You may give me a response similar to your response to Dan saying that it is just my story and does not apply to the vast majority of gun owners. I don't think I agree with that. The classes I have taken are always sold out and have waiting lists. The pistol club I am a member of has a huge mix of people like me that you would never guess would be into guns. Many of us own and carry, but we don't talk about it or make it known. Statistics would never include us in their numbers as they would have no way of tracking people like me. Just like muslims, christians, black, white, right, left, etc....you cannot paint the whole group with one brush.
This is the comment in your initial post I take issue with:
I would argue, they do hold water. Sure there are some that like to go fanatical with the argument, but fanatical arguments are made about all kids of things. Abortion, birth control, gay marriage, etc. I believe my non-fanatical argument about self defense holds plenty of water.
Idaho,
Thanks for the reasonable response. I get the wild animal, hiking thing. I would want one with me under those circumstances too. That's why I'm NOT against ownership, or carrying. You presented your case, you were reasonable, and there was no illogic or fear mongering, or attempts to make me believe I would be safer owning one.
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. See, people, NO PROBLEM HERE. Just keep it real.
On the flip side of your story. I'm a single, white, young female (duh, I know I have a pic up), who, get this, lives in DETROIT. WORKS in Detroit. HANGS OUT in DETROIT. Never, not once, have I felt the need to own or carry a gun.
And I know, my personal story, is just that, a personal story, but that's what I'm saying about, well personal stories.
@all
I will say this though...I do agree that banning guns will not change situations like the one in the story. Energy is better spent on other avenues to curb gun related violence. Prohibition did not work with alcohol and would not work with guns. That one is easy. Maybe programs need to be put in place to catch more of the people that should not have the guns. I am not the one to ask on how to stop the illegal guns, but an all out ban is a silly solution and is just as fanatical as the "gun nut" arguments. There is middle ground, but the loudest people are the ones with the most extreme positions. They are also the ones that tend to get elected.
Did you bother to read past that little talking point in the margin of page 2? That is why I did not give the range that that comment referred to which was 4.7 to 23 million.
Thank you for that.
Sarah I get you, wasn't really talking specifics about your comments. I am in favor of some reasonable gun control, as I do agree not all that can own a gun should own a gun. But it seems that the brush stroke also paints us in with the same picture.
Bassai,
It doesn't matter what numbers YOU pick and choose from. The study itself admitts to it being skewed, nor does it address any other question I posed in my first response to you.
You haven't answered a single point I've brought up, and you pointed me to a source, which basically proves my point... That sources on this issue are almost impossible to trust (AND THAT'S FOR BOTH SIDES).
Either argue the merits of my post with me (i.e. Idaho Steve style), or I don't know, continue to squabble???
What points? All you did was ask a bunch of questions, and if you didn't find the answers in their description of the survey methodology or their footnotes why ask me?
There will always be people who legally own guns and do commit crimes with them (and they should go to prison), but many more are committed with illegally owned/obtained weapons. And true, there are those who can legally own guns but should not. But if they have no record, there is no way to stop them outside of the dealer declining the sale (and they sometimes do). Still, gun laws and industry cannot be blamed for crimes using legal weapons... the person commiting the crime is fully responsible for their own actions. If they are determined to kill, they will find a way, be it gun, knife, or baseball bat. Do we regulate the latter two?
Gridlock... What the hell are you talking about? Apartheid?? Really?? Did you just learn what that was and now you want to sound educated?? The closest thing we ever had to Apartheid in this country (since the abolition of slavery) was the Jim Crow laws in the south which ended in the 60's. I think you just need to have somebody to be mad at and blame your problems on. Stop making such a big deal about racism and bigotry, bringing it up at every little thing, and eventually it will just go away because nobody will care. It's pointing it out all the time that makes it a damn issue.
As for the libretarian movement, that's exactly what it is NOT about. It is about leaving me alone to do what I want so long as I'm not infringing on the rights or well-being of others. There may be an element of people who follow that philosphy who individually are also racist and biggotted, I will concede you that point, but that does not make it a part of that philosophy. I like to watch football, I also like auto-racing. Just because I like both of those things does not make them related to each other.
Its Chicago.. what is the big deal or shock. Remember Chicago has the strictest gun control laws around so obviously this three-year-old was a registered gun owner as authorized by Rahm.
Just another product of a welfare society!
Maybe they should focus more on the gang-bangers instead of diverting attention with a bogus gun control story.
These people are sooooooooooo stupid I can't begin to comment!!!!!
Stupid dad, stupid mom, stupid grandmother! And the child's nickname is FATTY? You have got to be kidding!
STUPID! STUPID! STUPID!
I would use a stronger word than stupid, though it would get edited. Stupid just does not seem to really say it all in this matter. It is a miracle the kid did not get hurt.
I know....Fatty. That's a esteen booster for sure.
Just another case where it seems like these people don't need children. If you have children then you don't need to let them hold loaded pistols! How hard is that to comprehend? The parents and grandparents sure dropped the ball for this little girl.
Yes that seems to be the most important conclusion to draw about this. HOW? How can people grow to adulthood and yet be so stupid that they'd leave guns around for their 3 year olds to pick up? These people were even more stupid because they saw the kid holding the gun and left it there. What the heck? That poor kid is cursed with a family so SH**-for-brained that they'd leave a gun around, get arrested for it, and have the cruelty to nickname a kid "fatty". I feel so sorry for that kid and I hope that someone finds a good family for her, because her current family is a BIG FAILURE.
stupid reproduces and get stupid kids that create more stupid kids and so on and so on...I agree with the comment toward the top... all the adults needed to be arrested and charged with child endangerment, no car seats, no seat belts... and they wonder why the cops shot first, ask question later in that town.
I feel the same way, all of the "adults" in this situation seem to lack brains and/or common sense. As far as calling the child "Fatty" why would you nickname your CHILD that? Some people should not be allowed to have children!!
As long as the toddler was trained in gun safety; and had permission to carry from his parents, and the safety was on, what's the big deal? Guns don't kill people. Babies kill people!
Sirlafalot
Hahahaha.....hilarious!
Yeah.... and don't forget... If guns kill people, then forks and knives make people fat.
Sirlafalot: "Guns don't kill people. Babies kill people"
You made me laugh a lot--thank you! Babies kill people! True!
Hey it wasn't my gun, officer. It was the baby's! We were just hostages!
Babies with GUNS kill people.
Wow you are soooooo, original sirfartalots.
I read the story and thought "Guy needs to go 6 feet under." Then I read motegazes comment and instantly think "Stewie!"
Did the cop tell the toddler he could terminate her first amendment rights?
Huh? First amendment rights? She wasn't excercising her freedom of speech.
God Bless America where our toddlers have the freedom to exercise their right to carry handguns under the constitution.
Baby mamma and mamma mamma were all in the car? So was the secret signal meant to let Fatty know she should shoot the cop? Boy is Fatty going to be in trouble when Dad gets out of jail.
Stupid Fuc*ing people...
Probably out looking for someone who may or may not have "dissed" them to shoot and once they saw the cops, they handed the gun to the kid thinking, "she can't get in trouble, can she?"
It would hav been great if she shoot him in the face and take this tax liability out!
try to catch me ridin dirty,try to catch me ridin dirty.....
spiceman....even though this situation isn't funny, that sure was (I was thinkin the same thing!)
Some people should just not have children ..so outlaw abortion restrict access to birth control that'll fix it
Better yet pay them more money to have kids they will not care about. That seems to be working great. Want to take odds on how many people in this story are on welfare, disability, food stamps, medicare, housing and free cell phones. The only taxpayer was the Cop.
True dat my homey!
Medicare doesn't count, but you are probably absolutely right on the rest of it. The only issue I have with the birth control thing is that we have to make the people use it. Birth control is available now, for free, and these dumdums are still having babies. I know that eugenics may disproportionately single out certain races, so that would never work.....BUT, maybe, just maybe we can start making it a crime for people who have proven themselves stupid beyond comprehension to reproduce....this includes those who have kids they flat out refuse to take care of.
killing kids is not the answer
No, I too am against abortion...but I am not against making it illegal for people who display a certain level of ignorance to reproduce.
To.Proud""""
Don't even get me started on them Tax Break Queens popping out kid after kid to get yet another tax deduction...
Every adult in the car should be charged. But being Chicago with the reputation the police there have, I am surprised to hear then didn't charge the 3 year old with the crime (as an adult) Some days when I read the news I am forced to wonder if the police in this city are not more dangerous than the criminals.
There weren't any adults in the car...
Great now all the other 3 year olds on the block are going to want one. :)
Seriously, these parents (or lack there of) should have the kids taken away. They obviously have no idea how to take care of a child.
Taken away? And cared for by who? The government? The government is responsible for encouraging idjits like these to reproduce with incentives like free schooling, free food, free housing, tax breaks, etc.
What a bunch of stupid jerks!!! They all should go to jail. The child's nickname is "FATTY"? Can you lower her self esteem a bit more? If she is fat, whose fault is that? Some people make me want to hurt them.
When I saw her name was Fatty, I just assumed she was named after a large joint.
that was just a prediction of her future on obummer bucks, no need to work just reproduce...here's your check
"obummer bucks". I guess 4 years ago you called them "busher bucks?" It's the SAME F'ING SYSTEM.
Why is this guy arrested? It's clearly the kid with the gun.
ANOTHER DUH ON THE POLICE END
everyone should have been arrested for letting the 3 year old handle the weapon
they were all part of the crime scene and all were lieing im sure
oh its not mine so its ok for the 3 year old to handle it???
arrest all those idiots
duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
I thought this story ran several months ago. The only thing that seems different from the one back then is the introduction of new regulatory terminology.. FOID...
Propaganda replaying an old story to introduce new regulatory items. I wonder how much the gov is gonna make off of requiring gun owners to buy this new piece of identification. Will a valid concealed carry work as a substitute or will those of us with a carry permit, now have to go buy a FOID from the government? Will we have to have an individual FOID for each gun, cause that will be very expensive.
No reason to comment on the people involved, the racial inflammation is being used to mask the new regs getting shoved down gun owners throats
"this week" is not "several months ago"
I think that one was about Juwan.
I think actually it was Juwan, Shaniqua and le-a---the latter pronounced ledasha because the dash don't be silent.
If they were using the trees to get around as they should have, this may not have happened.
Reading the 2nd to last post, I was saying "Hey, no racial words" but, I knew it was too good to be true.
Zipperhead.......
Thank you; it took restraint
Zipper, your response is pretty ignorant. You should zip your mouth and not your cat. Besides if they were swinging from trees, your daughters would be swinging right wit em.
Stricter gun laws will NOT change situations like this. Does this family sound like they would be law-abiding citizens that would say "tsk tsk... no guns"? They didn't have the children in carseats OR seatbelts. Last time I checked, there were laws covering that too. Banning guns only allows the criminals to be sure that innocent people are not armed, making them easier victims. At least if some people carry, they still have to guess which ones and take a chance. Otherwise, it is too easy for the criminal. On another note, those poor children don't have any reliable family members. So sad. Those adults knew the kids weren't properly restrained and had a loaded firearm. Not to mention the lovely emotional abuse..."Fatty"? Really? This whole situation just makes you want to cry.
I don't think they were trying to hurt her self-esteem, they probably felt it was cute given the level of ignorance displayed. The ignorance involved in this situation is truly ridiculous.
Welcome to Barack Obama's Chicago.
What is the big deal? This is Chicago so you gotta get Fatty trained early or she will not survive. It was a family night out in the Windy City and the dang law spoiled the fun. What a sad freakin statement for Obama's hometown
True dat my homey!