There is just something fundamentally wrong about this issue. There is no reason why he should not be allowed to fly back to the States. Hell, have him fly back and question him again, if they like, but get him back. He is a citizen of this country and should not have his rights circumvented, if there are not evidence of him doing something against this country. I am sure the lawyers are lining up as we speak.

The problem is that once you're on the no-fly list, you are there permanently. Only the agecy that put you on the list can take you off. And the agency is not recorded so they cannot be queried about it. Pretty smart, eh? And there is no appeals process that you can go through to get yourself vetted and off the list.

The same goes for the "enhanced security" lists that cause an "SS" to be printed on your boarding pass. I had a knee replacement 3 1/2 years ago. Since my first trip through the TSA I have always been subjected to "special security" with "specific attention to the groin and breast areas." It adds over an hour to my flight wait times and has caused me to be separated from my luggage once and my wife twice when we were traveling together. I have been wanded, inspected, strip-searched (the TSA does not strip search --- they order the airport police to order it), full-body scanned, questioned and fondled. A Delta security agent at Heathrow showed me my TSA file --- it says that I am "probably carrying contraband." I have no idea what they are talking about. (BTW the Delta security agent was a Sikh, wearing a turban which he will not remove for anyone and carrying a dagger which he will not relinquish, but that is okay.) There is no appeal for that either once you're on such a list, you're on it for the rest of your life.

But the bad thing is that on the first TSA encounter at Reagan, I tried to explain that I had a knee replacement and tried to show them my "recall" card. The agent responded that all the terrorists had those cards. But, not looking at the card, the agent was unable to determine what was setting off the alarms and wand, so they finally gave up. A replacement knee is about the same mass and composition as a 9mm Glock. Since then, I have learned to say as little as possible and volunteer nothing in order to get through the TSA. In over 100 flights they have never once found the artificial knee. Even during a flashlight examination with a flashlight they were unable to connect the huge scar on my knee with the wand going off.

This is nothing more than security theater. Its intent is to convince terrorists that they are so thorough that they even inconvenience innocent people. But terrorists are far smarter than the TSA --- by orders of magnitude. Despite billions of dollars the TSA has never stopped a terrorist or uncovered a terrorist plot. It's an expensive bad movie that we all have to sit through until the end.

The real truth is that if a terrorist wanted on an airplane or wanted a bomb on an airliner, they would simply hire a TSA employee to let them on or place the bomb. Over 7,000 TSA agents have been fired for theft or similar misconduct. The TSA agents routinely sell confiscated items on eBay and keep the money. (Go look for yourself if you don't beliebe me --- search "pocket knives lots tsa" to find them.) They steal money from passengers being exposed to "special security". This has happened twice to me. Twice I complained and twice I got the identical form letter telling me that the security tapes for that date and time have been misplaces or are otherwise unavailable.

But paybacks are hell. Yesterday I took my wife to the Birmingham, AL airport. On the way back, there was a car trying to change a tire on soft ground. I stopped to help. The person turned out to be a TSA agent who said he had so many "points" that if he was late he would be fired. I told him my arthritis was acting up and I couldn't help and left --- taking with me all but one of his lug nuts. What goes around comes around. And for the TSA thugs who may find this post one day --- the security tapes of the incident have been misplaced.

@jeremy - given that there are children that have been banned from flying because their names were placed on the "no fly list", I'm not sure I'd place all my faith in his being placed on the no fly list being due to actions he undertook while he was at school. Seems like he's either a threat, in which case why should he be allowed to drive back into the country, or he's not a threat, in which case he should be allowed to fly. No matter what, as a U.S. Citizen, he should be entitled to more due process than he appears to have received.

Sorry - meant to post this to the comment below, where jeremy stated that this young man "surely must have" done something at school to place him on the no fly list. I only wish the process was so infallible.

Good luck getting off that list. We had a Senator that got on that list once and he went through 'heck' to get his name off of it. Apparently, I might be on the 'look out' list, as I too have gone through certain security issues when flying domestically, as well as many others.

I applaude the ACLU in fighting this, but this whole nation has gone to the dogs.

.

This is nothing more than security theater. Its intent is to convince terrorists that they are so thorough that they even inconvenience innocent people.

I disagree with you somewhat on this one point. It's purpose isn't to convince terrorists; it's purpose is to convince the flying public that we are 'being protected.' It has no purpose beyond that.

Is it fair? No. But it is the price you pay when your a young, American Muslim who participates in religious activity outside this country.

The TSA is just one more terrible Republican idea gone wrong. Of course most Republican ideas are designed to enrich their monied puppet masters. The TSA is just the beginning, the recall election in Wisconsin should be a wake up call to all of us; the Koch brothers and about 20 other billionaires are buying our democracy. If the GOP gets total control in Washington and the States then our democracy will disappear and the TSA will be the model they'll use to monitor every aspect of our lives. I know many people will say that can't happen here. OK if you don't believe it then just ask any moderate average American citizen [not a right winger] of Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Arizona, Florida, Texas and Ohio how they feel about having fascist regimes running their state governments; I have and it's frightening. There is an illness in our country that was started by the right wing and it has spread like a wild fire, it called FEAR BASED ON LIES !

GCK-WYO

Where did it say that he participated in any religious activity?

Here is an interesting point, how was he able to board to fly out if he is on the no-fly list? What, attacks are only going to happen if the flight originates outside the U.S.?

he has no case; the Patriot act gives total and complete immunity, to all government security personnel; he may try to file a claim for additional costs, for his travel expenses, with the claims court, it only takes a few years to get a decision

These articles never give you all the facts...there is more involved with this person being on the no-fly list since the rest of his family had no problem boarding the same flight!

The guy probably met someone while he was in Costa Rica in a perfectly innocent setting not realizing that this person was being watched as a potential terrorist. This contact then got him placed on the no fly list simply because he was seen talking to someone with terrorist ties. It is the worst kind of guilt by association.

As for @Chris - You have posted similar stories before and there are simply too many things about your tales that do not ring true. As someone who also has a large amount of metal in his body, I have never had any problems when traveling. I have more metal in me in the form of rods and pins than there is in the average hand gun and I have never even set off the metal detectors. And by he way, if your replacement knee is the same material composition as a glock you should be suing you doctor. I have never seen a glock made out of stainless steel or titanium which are the metals that are normally used in joint replacements. Also for the record, there is most definitely an appeal process to get your name off the no fly list and the special screening list. My guess is that you did get caught carrying something you shouldn't have some time in the past so no you get checked carefully every time.

The lunatics in charge of the funny farm.

Did you know that they put also Nelson Medala on the terrorist no fly list because of his activities against the apartheid regime.

No wonder that many people do not want have anything to do with the US

@ Saxon - Yeah, he is most likely on the no-fly list because he just happens to have the same name as a known terroist. Same thing of the recent report of a small child not allowed to fly. You would think these dumb a$$ agencies would maybe look to add pictures to the names of those on the no-fly list. If anything it would surely help with distinguishing a child and terrorist with the same name.

Also, don't you just love how American citizens have a harder time getting back into this country than illegals who seem to make it over with relative ease?

What we got us here is a reader!

Poor Guy -

Study hard, play by the rules, do the right thing =

No Fly list.

Yayy.. Guvermint!!

These articles never give you all the facts...there is more involved with this person being on the no-fly list since the rest of his family had no problem boarding the same flight!

No where in the article does it say the rest of his family was on the same flight.

In our state, we had a John Adams discover that he was on the "no fly" list. Elderly guy, American born, white (though that should not matter), but that just goes to prove that anyone can be targeted for anything at any time. Why was this poor old guy on there? Well, his name is John Adams - obviously he's a terrorist deliberately using a "patriotic" moniker! Right? Right? Feel safer now?

I mean, really! It's a disgrace.

Pat,

The last paragraph indicates that other family members were all allowed to fly home. The problem with the no fly list is that it doesn't identify individuals, but names. So in the case of the post by amused muse, a person with the name John Adams was placed on the list, but that now means that ALL individuals with the name John Adams is now on the no fly list. It doesn't matter if the person is on the same flight or not.

The reason for doing this is because most of the names are actually alias' and not persons as most terrorists (or terrorist suspects) would reasonably be found to be using false travel documents.

This is why the techniques that El Al uses, profiling, although much more intense, and requiring that you hire people that are trained with the subsequent higher pay is actually much more effective.

JD makes an excellent point. He was probably "scouted" by some person actually being watched as a terrorist. That person probably realized he wouldn't make a good recruit, so that was the end of that interaction, but put him on the no fly list.

Mandy, don't you realize it said they questioned him about his attendance at a Mosque? You KNOW if he chooses a house of worship he MUST be a terrorist if it's a Mosque - it needs to be investigated! (You should know me well enough to pick up on the heavy dose of sarcasm.)

@JD has no point at all. This is just his imagination at work. He made every bit of it up and now you are supposing it is true.

And for JD, you are wrong once again. If you look up a Smith & Nephew TKR, you will find that it has the same MASS in metal and plastic, to the gram, as a Glock 9mm Gen4 G26. It is evenly about divided between metal and plastic. If you have that much metal in YOUR body and it never sets anything off at airports, then I seriously question if you have been through an airport in a long, long while or you are lying about the amount of metal to exxagerate your point.

And also for @JD, there is NO appeals process for any no-fly list or special security list. I have several letters to that effect. Only the agency who put you on the list can take you off and no record is kept of which agency put you on. Period. And no, I was never caught with something I should have been carrying. You really love to invent lies about other people, don't you? Maybe you should be a news writer for Fox. They're good at the birther kind of crap just like you.

The issue may have been his participation in a peaceful protest. Protestors are often monitored, even peaceful activist groups, and added to lists as potential threats.

That’s great! Lets just humiliate and inconvenience this otherwise law abiding young US citizen until he becomes so enraged that he decides he might as well become a terrorist after all. The FBI website may claim that everyone on the no fly list is either a known terrorist or someone "reasonably suspected of being a terrorist" but I think we all know that that’s a bunch of BS. After all if this were indeed the case we would not have 3 or 4-year old children, often not even Muslims, ending up the no-fly list. A lot of people are on that list simply because they have the same name as a suspected terrorist. This alone tells me that the FBI is not doing their due diligence and that many of these suspected "terrorist" are put on the no fly list based on little or no evidence of terrorist activities or affiliations.

I work with a guy who has the same last name as one of the top Al Qaeda operatives. He gets screened every time he goes to the airport and gets kinda pissed when you ask him about it. Doesn't even have the same spelling.

I would be curious to see what the reasoning was behind this or what the details are this article is leaving out.Is there a way to find out WHY you were put on the list?

Yeah, about this...

Is it fair? No. But it is the price you pay when your a young, American Muslim who participates in religious activity outside this country.

Last I checked, that wasn't a crime. Or even probable cause.

This whole episode is shamefully absurd.

So lets see here.. He was able to fly to get to attend school.His parents and brother were allowed to fly there and back, but he was not allowed to fly back.

How about before we go blasting the Gvmnt, we try to figure out WHAT he was doing, who he was spending time with, what groups he was with while out of country. He was obviously put on the no fly list for something he was doing while AT school, or he never would of been allowed to get there.

I see a very 1 sided here.

Jeremy-960164 - I'm with ya! I support everything the United States gov't does and I love America and I love all the politicians and the alphabet agencies even more! U.S.A! U.S.A! U.S.A! No complaints here whatsoever!!! Give them all our money and freedom and whatever else they want! Just give it to them! NOW!!!

(Just making sure I don't end up on a no-fly list, myself.)

And more importantly, the list is secret so one can't will never know they are on it until they are turned away. US citizens on the list should be notified so fight it. I am tired of this GD secret Stalin-esque secret police who are gaining almost limitless powers.

You assume quite a lot. What makes you think he was put on the no-fly list for any particular reason? As we have seen, people get on the list for no reason at all. There are members of Congress who are on the no-fly list.

And remember, they don't base it upon who you are. They base it merely upon your name. If you have the same name as someone who is on the no-fly list, then you are not allowed to fly even though you are not the person in question.

And remember too, you don't have the ability to question or contest your placement on the list. Once you are on, you cannot be taken off.

If he is so much of a threat that you aren't going to let him fly into the US, then he is too much of a threat to be allowed in the US at all and you should arrest him right then and there to charge him with the crimes you seem to think he committed.

But if not, then you don't deny a citizen of the US the right of travel.

@Jeremy,

What happened to the right of a person to know what he is accused of and to face his accuser? That has been the las since the Magna Carta. I know you righties do not believe in the Constitution and Law and all that incomvenienct stuff, so I hope that a cop stops you on the way home and keeps you in lockup until you are very tired of hearing YOUR argguments coming out of HIS mouth.

This will get a lot worse if Corporate Raider Willard Romney ever wins the White House

We are deep in the Police State now where thugs are the cops and little children are barred from flying because of the frightened United States Government fears they are terrorist.

Dissolve the TSA, DHS and fire John Pistol, the head of the TSA, NOW!!!

and thats my opinion

How about before we go blasting the Gvmnt, we try to figure out WHAT he was doing, who he was spending time with, what groups he was with while out of country. He was obviously put on the no fly list for something he was doing while AT school, or he never would of been allowed to get there.

I think you put too much trust in the government. Or maybe you work for the TSA. You know that they've put active duty soldiers on the no-fly list before? And 9 year old children?

I too am an American Citizen with no criminal record, but I too am on the special security list, and not long ago, I was barred from entering a government agency without explaination, when I was sent on a service call to their location.

Jeremy, people have been put on the no-fly list for having names similar to criminals. For all you know there could be someone named Kovina Iraniam who is a terrorist who needs to be on the list. But "close enough" is good enough for ya right?

@Alverant,

You should remember that there is no transliteration standard between Arabic and English letters or Persian and English letters. Or many other languages for that matter. Remember Ghadaffi in Libya --- there were at least 47 variations of spellings of his name in English letters. That is true for most Arabs and Persians. The error rate is so huge that most people on the "no fly" lists would slip through anyway. For the TSA and the FBI, "not even close" is good enough --- because that's all they have. Of the 6 Arabic-speaking FBI agents at 9/11, 4 were fired within a year for "security concerns." One had been with the FBI for over 25 years. That's how stupid they are.

That's not their function. Our U.S. Forces kill them. CAIR acts as a good counterbalance when a part of the U.S. government goes too far, and this happens much too often in many facets of government (in the U.S. as well as other countries; fortunately for us, the checks like CAIR work very well in the U.S. because of our principles of government).

Steve in WA-2586156

The problem with your statement is that, as I say further on, CAIR is a front for Hamas, has called for the overthrow of the American government and the institution of Islamic law here in its place.

Michael-267231 - CAIR is a front for Hamas

Where do you bigoted nuts get that nonsense?

@Michael --- prove it or shut up. I thought so../.

@Michael-267231

The problem with your statement is that it isn't true.

They have, it just doesn't get much press in the conservative media.

Muslims DID NOT fly planes into the towers on 9/11. Terrorist Muslim fanatics flew those planes. Christians DID NOT bomb abortion clinics. Terrorist Christian fanatics did the bombing. There is no need to fear people of the Muslim or Christian faiths. There is great need to fear and reject all religious fanatics that promote activism to defend their faith. True believers will trust God to care for them, not heretic men using politics and terror in the name of religion to promote only themselves.

Here is CAIR's web site page on anti-terrorist:

http://sun.cair.com/AmericanMuslims/AntiTerrorism.aspx

You can just hear the frustration with idiots like Michael in the words. The problem is that he hears crap on Fox, lacks the critical thinking ability to question what he hears, then spouts out what he is told to spout. Garbage in garbage out.

CAIR is a civil rights organization that addresses issues that concern American Muslims and Muslims in America just as the ACLU tackles Bill of Rights issues. The Hamas gag is old and factcheck.org has debunked every one of these CAIR smears that the Tea Baggers have circulated. Here is the FactCheck link:

http://www.factcheck.org/archives/search-results/?cx=000672474746801930868%3Aa87hh_euyka&cof=FORID%3A11%3BNB%3A1&ie=UTF-8&q=cair&sa=Search

Muslim haters are just the new Latino haters that were the old African-American haters that were the Chinaman haters and the Irish haters and the Catholic haters and etc. It probably goes back the the first humans who hated the monkeys. People like Michael are nothing new. But they contribute nothing useful or worthwhile to the discussion.

What happened is people voted Bush into office.

Are you stupid? What happened is Muslims flew airplanes into buildings in the name of Allah. Now everyone has to deal with it. Not just the living realatives and friends of those killed. But the practitioners of the pseudo religion that calls for the death and subjugation of the West. Bush didn't understand a thing about what happend and Obama understands even less.

There have always been secret " lists " and there will always BE lists... Its nothing new to anyone who doesnt have their head in the sand.

Dont think for one minute that there are not countless "Gun Nut: groups on a list to be watched by the FBI. Or religious compound fools not being watched by the FBI...

@Jeremy-960164

That may be, but we don't restrict the rights of citizens in this country unless you have actually committed a crime.

Unless, of course, you're Muslim. They're not really citizens, right? If you were a real citizen, you wouldn't be Muslim, right?

John thanks for furthering the power of the @!$%#s who manipulated you into turning and continue to turn us further and further into a police state. The Patriot Act was as Unamerican as any bill can get and yet I bet you welcomed it with open arms judging by your comment.

What you fail to realize is that by accepting that god awful bill you gave up some of your freedoms. That act is the worst sin an American can ever commit because in doing so you basically pissed on anyone that has ever fought, died, or been injured protecting your right to those freedoms.

But yeah, whatever, keep repeating the lies that got our two view points to this position. I am sure that will end the hostilities between radical Islam and the West. /massive sarcasm

John, in January 2010 a christian flew a plane into a government building in Texas killing several innocent people. This person was a member of the tea party yet that group wasn't rounded up the way you propose doing to muslims. Why is that?

Whatever happened to the fourth amendment?

Rights? You Don't Need No Stinkin Right's.../sarc

Ben Franklin was right "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

"They came first for the Communists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. And then they came for me and by that time no one was left to speak up.”

— Rev. Martin Niemoeller, a Protestant minister in Nazi Germany, in 1945; from “Political Quotations”, Daniel B. Baker, ed.

At Cynic, I once read an article that said that the Franklin quote indicated that there were some liberties (non-essential ones) that could be given up for safety (permanent ones). I so wanted to get on the website and comment on the ridiculousness of the author's misreading of the rhetorical flourishes, but the commenting section had expired.

While you bash Bush, have you stopped to look at Obama? He signed Patriot Act II and NDAA into law...no Bush in sight. Wilful blindness is what the powers-that-be count on. Obama does exactly the same, if not worse than Bush but hey, it's Obama. Stupid people deserve to get their butts kicked. Unfortunately the stupid cause the rest of us to suffer a similar fate.

mygirl1,

The PATRIOT USA II Act was never even submitted for debate in congress, it died in committee so Obama didn't do any such thing. What he did do was to sign the extension of 6 clauses in the original PATRIOT USA act that were set to expire. If you are going to criticize someone, at least do so with facts.

As for the NDAA, there were 2 pages out of about 2500 pages in that bill that were up for debate, and because of the way that congress likes to do things at the last minute, if he didn't sign the NDAA bill, then the military would have literally had to shut down. So he did the next best thing, he signed the bill, authorizing funding for the military to continue, and also signed a signing statement indicating specifically how that clause would be treated, which took out the civil rights concerns. So I take it, you would have wanted the entire military to have to shut down, including paying all the troops their salaries?

You go first.

Good luck with that lawsuit against Homeland Security. It's like folks trying to sue the KGB, the Gestapo, STASI and a whole slew of police state secret police agencies.

That makes too much sense. It doesn't fit well with national hysteria.

Your suggestion is not included in the TSA terrorist investigation manual and TSA agents are discouraged from thinking independently. We tried independence and the federal government decided that it just gets in the way.

The no-fly list isn't used to keep planes safe, that's what undressing to your skives and having a body search done is for. Apparently the real purpose of the no fly list is to harass individuals who hold different beliefs than the majority of Americans.

The NO-FLY list is nothing more than an oppressive tool. Who gets on the list? Hey, some politician can be really upset with someone and place their name on said list. Rahm Emmanuel made mention of doing so.

Rachel,

Your use of common sense and logic is confusing to all the useful idiots here. If you keep it up, you'll confound the established ignorance that haunts comment boards everywhere.

Actually, we don't know yet if he is allowed back. The other example was deported from Mexico back to Colombia when attempting to do the same thing.

What's the big deal? He was allowed back, just couldn't fly

Tell you what Rachael. How about we drop you in a foreign country, and not let you fly home. Instead, you'll need to find another way. Oh, and your ticket probably won't be refunded. So after 12 days on a bus, questioning by the FBI, and eating the cost of your unused plane ticket, oh, and you'll need to take some legal action to get on a plane again, just remember:

What's the big deal?

As far as I know, Rachel is not part of a group that blew up two buildings and killed 3,000 people on one day. Of COURSE not all Muslims are responsible...but we do wish that the decent Muslims would more vigorously condemn the extremist, fanatical ones who are.

@Rachael,

Can't read or did't read the article. He could not come back. The last he was heard from was when he boarded a flight to Mexico from Costa Rica. No one knows what happened to him. The Mexicans are often used as proxies by out "fierce fatherland security" to torture and abuse people and there is a great deal of implied fear that this has happened to him.

You right-wingers need to get caught on your own tar baby once in a while. But of course, you don't get far from the trailer park lest the beer get warm, do you?

They do Cassandra, it's just not reported in right-wing land. Your attempt to paint Muslims as bad people, while at the same time trying to act like you don't hate them, is right out of the FOX playbook.

Muslims didn't attack us on 9/11. Crazy murderers with a sick political agenda did. They happened to use Islam as an excuse.

I see plenty of Christian acts of terror, violence, and intolerance, but rarely do I see "decent Christians" go out of their way to condemn them. That doesn't mean those Christians deserve to be suspect.

What's the big deal??? Rachael, you are NOT that ignorant. C'mon now.

Rachael, good to see that you didn't let the facts get in the way of your decision to hold an American citizen hostage until he confesses to a crime for which there is no evidence. Maybe, you would have just shipped him to Gitmo?

As far as I know, Rachel is not part of a group that blew up two buildings and killed 3,000 people on one day.

And this guy is a part of that group? If so, then why was he turned away? Why wasn't he arrested and why is he now not in Guatanamo?

As far as I know, Rachel is not part of a group that blew up two buildings and killed 3,000 people on one day. Of COURSE not all Muslims are responsible...but we do wish that the decent Muslims would more vigorously condemn the extremist, fanatical ones who are

So following this logic and assuming you are a decent American, it is YOUR responsibility to vigorously condemn the extremist, fanatical Christians who preach hate opposed to love and tolerance that Jesus Christ taught. Judging by your comment, you aren't do that great of a job.

And even if the 'decent' Muslims condemned the actions of a bad few, what does that have to do with the guy that is caught in this situation? I'll answer that for you: it has @!$%# all to do with it.

Now we have the fracking Patriot Act and the the Defense Act (that Obama passed) that basically strips US cits of their rights, if they so much as sneeze the wrong the way and someone accuses them of terroristic activities. What happened to the presumption of innocent until guilty, and having the right to face his accuser? While some folks may not like it, there are actually native-born US citizens that just so happen are of the Muslim faith, and they have the same rights of free travel into and out of the US that everyone has. The government has no right to prevent him from returning to his home country..unless they strip him of his citizenship. And if they went down that path, we should all be very, very afraid of the power we have given our government.

Today it's this guy, tomorrow it could be you, your spouse, your kid, your grandkid, etc. Does no one see that Muslim-Americans are facing the same discrimination that Japanese-Americans faced during WWII? Will the next step in our hysteria be the creation of intern camps again!?!

Rachel: Ever hear of the NDAA? Forget your fourth amendment rights. How does indefinite detention without due process grab you? Holder went on air and stated that Obama can deem you a terrorist and have you killed, no due process necessary.

*Jumbo Jack sandwich, with any purchase! (Tue, I think)

And how is that relevant? When you deny the rights of citizens, you have just committed suicide.

False.

You watch too much FAUX news. It's rotting what little brain you have.

skrekk, Beck is not allowed on their network anymore. I think Michael has all of his home TV's permanently set to Becks personal network.

Michael, you tried to panhandle that FAUX BS before. It just ain't selling here.

skrekk, I do not watch Faux News. If you don't believe me, look up the case of CAIR vs. Whitehead, which showed the truth - that CAIR is a front for Hamas.

mike430, I suggest you do the same.

Actually, Michael, all the CAIR vs Whitehead case proved was that the Tea Party can make a trial a very, very expensive process for an organization like CAIR that has a tiny budget. The case was directed to be dismissed when the Whitehead klegal team requested over 6 million pages of ducoments in support of over 300 discovery actions and interrogatories. There was no way that CAIR could comply with that and the judge ordered the case dismissed with prejudice. The with prejudice part means that CAIR cannot sue Whitehead again for the same cause. This is because the next legal team would just request the same 6 million pages of discovery plus some.

It never made it to court. It is carried as settled. Whitehead was kicked out of the US Navy. And all it "proved" was that a civli rights group running on a shoestring budget simply cannot fight the billionaire backing of the Tea Party.

Actually, Chris, the case didn't make it to trial because CAIR dismissed it with prejudice due to the fact that the discovery asked for, as you said, a lot of documents. CAIR, which is supported by Hamas, did not want the paperwork to come to light, as it would show exactly what I was saying - it was a front for Hamas, it was being financed by Hamas initially, it called for the overthrow of our government, etc. Have you read the discovery that was sent by Whitehead's attorneys to CAIR? It's all available online. CAIR objected to everything because it was afraid to let the truth come out.

Also, Andrew Whitehead did not have the backing of the Tea Party, mainly because it didn't exist at that time.

that's a rather liberal statement to make considering your screen name.

You should ask your conservative buddies that question.

ihateliberals-3787409

The constitutions guarantee's Citizens free movement.

No it doesn't. The U.S. used to grant freedom of movement under article 4 of the Articles of Confederation, but we sorta don't use that anymore.

Obviously the no fly list is not discriminatory against Muslims

Sure, that's why it's 95% Muslim people on the list. Makes perfect sense.

So explain the US Congressmen who are on the list.

You do realize that the list is not based upon who you are. It is merely based upon your name. If you have the same name as someone who the government wants to prevent flying into the US, then you don't get to fly. It doesn't matter that you aren't the person they're looking for. You have the same name, so you don't get to fly.

And no, you don't get to question why you're on the list. Once you're on, you will never be taken off.

If he really is that bad that we can't allow him to fly into the US, then he shouldn't be allowed into the US period and we should arrest him immediately and charge him with the crimes we seem to think he committed.

What? You mean there is no crime? Then you don't restrict the right of travel to US citizens.

Period.

it is really difficult to have a domestic flight enter the US again.

Bill: Fly the great circle from NYC to Seattle

Fly Hawaii to San Fran

Fly Guam to Honolulu

All classed as domestic flights: Need I go on?

Brian two or five people on the list who are not Muslim does not excuse the fact that if you are a Muslim or are of Arab descent you are five times more likely to get put on it then not.

Whoops I meant Bill not Brian. My bad.

Do you have a problem with comprehension Bill from Oregon because the article clearly states that the No Fly list barred him from domestic flights and international flights that enter US airspace . Quite a simple statement to understand . As for the background check revealing no criminal activity , that pretty much says it all too what other details are you looking for .

@Bill, you're misreading the sentence. That is, you are reading "domestic flights" and "international flights" as modifiers of the noun phrase, "that enter US air space." Instead, there are two separate phrases: "Domestic flights" and "international flights that enter US air space." After all, not all international flights enter US airspace. Flying from Australia to New Zealand doesn't cross US airspace.

But if you're flying from Canada to Mexico, you'd cross US airspace and be disallowed from flying due to agreements the US has with the various airlines. We won't allow airlines that don't use the no-fly list from flying over US territory.

The US has long had ridiculous notions of security. For example, if you are flying internationally and are simply stopping at a US airport, you must go through customs, collect your baggage, and then check in again for your outgoing flight even though you're never going to go anywhere in the US. Why? Why do we open the door to more security blunders by having the passengers disembark, collect baggage, possibly meet up with someone locally, and then put everything back? If we truly cared about security, we'd keep everything on the other side.

Hey Bill from Oregon, I would like to point out that the US (WHERE HE IS FROM) is also "MusletLand" as you term it. Because this is a country where people can practice ANY religion they damn well please. Also I would like to not that the article did not say he was Muslim, only that his father came from Iran.

A Muslim who wanted to prevent other folks from demonstrating now doesn't want his rights violated???? Does he think that that kind of behaviour won't be noticed when he leaves the country. Why didn't his family just return to Iran where he will have all the freedom he wants???

A characteristic of a police state is laws and regulations that are illogical but are strictly enforced anyway. Maybe it's a kind of loyalty test. if you blindly follow ridiculous laws you are loyal to the authorities. If you question the purpose of such laws you are exhibiting suspicious behavior.

You call American laws the work of fascist! You should be ashame! You don't know how good you have it here in America.Try any EU country who have a socialist government and see how well you would be over there! Go,if America is so fascist ,maybe you are just too enlighted for the rest of us and you need to go overseas and be free in another country.You really are a uber left libturd!

mas, this is exactly the kind of statement we think of when we use the term "sheeple." The idea that one can be a patriot and still question our government is not self contradictory. In fact, it is required to be a true patriot under the U.S. system, and I think the writing of the founders would bear that out. Those who blindly follow whatever edicts come down from D.C. are neither patriots nor particularly thoughtful participants in our form of government.

I would not be surprised at all if that was the case.

Better yet let's put all the bigots and racists in there instead. That would help solve many more problems besides this one.

I see the "boys" are on this thread tonight! Hi,boys,hows your butt!

That's a great idea and lets have the gays wear a pink armband and have them flit aorund the grounds all day!

No, there is a reason his NAME is on the list. Remember, the no-fly list simply goes off your name. If you aren't the person they're worried about, then that's just too bad. You have the same name, so you can't fly. You aren't allowed to question it or make inquiries as to how your name got on there. And once you are on the list, you cannot be taken off.

But all that said, if he's bad enough to be prevented from flying, then he's bad enough to be prevented from entering the US period and we should arrest him immediately and charge him with the crime that got him onto the list.

What? You mean there hasn't been any crime? Then you don't restrict the right of travel to US citizens.

Period.

The no-fly list keeps nobody safe. In fact, it makes us more vulnerable since we're wasting time and resources on methods that don't do anything.

And let's say that REC-1797069 is planning to board a plane at any future date to commit a crime like peeing in the toilet without flushing it. Better to take you out now and send you to Gitmo before you can carry out this plan which the government knows that you will someday. Would you applaud the Government stepping up then?

Keeping you safe at what price REC , if the kid is pulled aside and searched what is he going to use to blow up the plane. What info is he going to be carrying to a "cell " that could not be texted,emailed called in over the phone or snailmailed . Should we just lock people up because they look suspicious or dress a certain way all to keep your fat ass safe on your sofa

All that is necessary for evil to exist is for good men (and women) to do nothing.