Defending the honor and integrity of a fair maiden with a bottle to the head, no less.

how is hitting a guy with a bottle fighting fair-i say the guy was defending him self-a beoken bottle is a deadly weapon

I saw 'woman', 'bottle', and 'football' in the same article about a party. There is no bottom to that story.

Never bring a "beer" bottle to a "gun" fight..............odds are you lose.

Obviously by sucker punching the one, while your buddy hit them from behind with a bottle didn't result in a positive out come. Cannot say that the resulting escalation was appropriate, but they should have had the bejebbers beaten out of them for being so cowardly.

Testosterone, alcohol and guns. A deadly trifecta.

And you think that these thugs would respect laws to register their guns? LMAO

Thanks again to the manufacturers of weaponry, we are a civilized nation.

Guns dont kill people, its just the loud noise they make that kills people

Actually guns don't kill people.........bullets do.........the gun just makes the bullet go really really fast.

@Travelinfotog

When the Constitution was written, the only people who owned guns were those in militias,

WRONG When those militias were formed do you think the guns they had just fell from the sky? or were supplied by the continental congress which had no money at the time? No sir they were brought into the militias by the peasants and farmers who joined the militias

"Facts are Stubborn Things.

Aren't they though?

travelinfotog- I am what you might call a gun nut. Glad I have them if there's another civil war. I think alot of the problem stems from people who didn't grow up around firearms don't have the respect, skills or responsibly to own or use one, yet they go buy one when they are of age. I'm definitely against the gov't taking away our guns but maybe an approved safety course (similar to one young hunters must take in some states) should be required before getting one. This won't have much impact though. Criminals will get their hands on them if they want them. Like it or not we are stuck with the situation. Better to have them than being oppressed in the future be it by the left or right.

travelin - you really don't have a clue .

I live in NJ, a state with some of the strictest gun laws in the country. The result? The only ones with the guns are the criminals, especially gang members. It's a funny thing about thugs - they tend to ignore inconvenient things like laws.

And because the criminals know that very few people are armed, they are fearless about robbing and killing people and invading people's homes. Yeah, the liberals have a done a GREAT job here in Jersey. Idiots.

10tancle: Obama isn't the problem- it's the lame gun lobby that uses this fabricated election year "rights" issue as a cover while they destroy the firearms marketplace- Reagan's 1985 ban; Bush's 1989 ban; Clinton's 1993 Chinese import ban; Bush II's imported rifle parts kits ban and specific model regulations, Bush II's US compliance rules for AK's, FAL's, etc.; Bush II's EO effectively making black powder ownership very difficult, nearly impossible... You guys on the Right think you own the gun issue- you aren't doing a good job at all of managing it. You have to be to the right of Obama on regs- CCW in Nat'l Parks and more US C&R surplus rifles coming from SoKOR that even Bush II wouldn't sign off on. Your side can't muster the courage nor votes to go to the right.

Do not let "anger" be the decision maker about what you do or say. Mostly never works out well. Keep control over your emotions. Don't kill people.

So whacking people over the head with bottles is now considered honorable? My God, get a life you mindless savage.

I like how the guy who threw the first punch wonders how things went from "chillin' with the females to massacre". What an idiot.

More thug mentality spawning violence...black on black violence strikes again.

travelinfotog,

I think you defeated your own point when you said, "Surely noone is going to take them away, not even President Obama, who extended even more gun rights to gun owners, something King George wouldn't do."

Now, I understand that you are using this point to back up the next about the NRA. However, in doing so, you are agreeing with the fundamental point that tyrants and/or those less inclined to follow the "will of the people" will undoubtedly refuse the right to bear arms.

I agree with you that Obama is not taking away gun rights. He cannot at this era, the political atmosphere is drastically different regarding them as say, 15 years ago.

That being said, I disagree with you that the right to bear arms extends only to the militia. Those who served in the militia in the late 18th century where NOT the only ones who owned guns by any means. It was common for people to own at least one weapon, especially if they lived in more rural areas. Whereas, those who lived in the city/town, like today, may or may not.

To be frank with you, until a few years ago, I had never heard of anyone interpreting it differently. The idea of seeing only the second point, but not the first was rather astounding to me. That being said, I am not a Constitutional lawyer.

So, to the real point of your statement, the constitutions meaning. I believe the founders did not intended for the 2nd amendment to be interpreted narrowly (in reference to your argument), but broadly. I think it encompasses two points, not just one:

1) the right of the people to bear arms shall not be infringed upon, and

2) the right of the state to keep a well regulated militia shall not be infringed upon, either.

So, we both can debate this. You'll cite your evidence and I'll cite mine, but we still come to a head on the matter. That is exactly what the founders realized would occur, and set up the Supreme Court to handle these exact matters.

As of now, the Supreme Court has ruled that it believes it to encompass the right of the individual citizen and not just a citizen in the militia to bear arms. I do understand that, like many rulings, it has opened the way for a lot of "hashing out" exactly how far or narrow that ruling goes. Just like the Constitution, their ruling can still be interpreted very broadly or narrowly, and only future rulings will begin to quantify the exact boundaries (if any) of the law and their ruling.

@Travelinfotog - better go back to the history books.

Every able-bodied man was expected to take part in the militia, and they were expected to supply their own firearms. That would include even you, who apparently has never shot off anything except his mouth.

Go watch The Last of the Mohicans if you are biblio-challenged (as you seem to be). It portrays an accurate depiction of who and what The Militia were.

Absolutely amazing!! I didn't see a single reference to this being Obama's fault. Wow.

10tacle: The Crime bill is no more. Dead after 10 years. You don't know much about the regs, because the worst bills were Reagan's machinegun ban and Bush I's import ban. To say that only the defunct Crime Bill affected you shows ignorance, and that you likely don't know much about the firearms industry nor importers. High cap mags already made were always available- the prices were driven up by hoarders who paid $75 for a $20 Glock 17 magazine. AR 30rd. mags were always $15. I own numerous weapons, and I practice regularly. I am on left. You are just full of opinion.

Something people dont realize about the words "well regulated militia", back then the words well regulated meant well equiped and trained, and most men were in county militia of some sort.

The 2nd amendment was not about the right on individuals to own guns for the simple reason that absolutely no one around 1780, when there were still Indian raids on the frontier borders, considered for a minute that the federal government was going to outlaw private ownership of guns. There were only a few rights delineated in the bill of rights, and all of them were of vital importance to the authors, and they were pretty much inspired by the things that they hated about British rule. The 2nd amendment militia stuff relates to the British trying to stamp out the militia at Concord, the 3rd amendment quartering stuff relates to how the British forced Americans to put up their soldiers. No one in the country thought that the 2nd amendment had anything to do with private gun rights for the next 150 years; it was never even attempted to be used for gun rights purposes until the 1930s, when its use for that purpose was described as creative and unusual (and laughed out of the courts). Read any text on the Bill of Rights written before 1950 and they are unaminous in this opinion. In fact, most high school texts refered to the 2nd and 3rd amendments as anacronisms.

The current belief about the 2nd amendment is modern nonsense based on illogical thought, but then so are the ideas that Obama was born in Kenya, man's emmissions cannot impact the weather, Obama is a muslim, offshoring jobs is good for us, the world is 10,000 years old, eliminating unions will help the working man, capital gains tax elimination will create jobs and a host of other conservative beliefs. It is impossible to get conservatives to understand why any of these are ridiculous.

I read this article and can't help but think that a bunch of young men, sitting around drinking and whoring, well something was bound to happen. First is thier reaction to the "thugs" who came there to "discuss" thier women. Who was the female in question and where was she? Seems to me these afro-american boys need to stop acting like neanderthals. Is this how the University is teaching these young people to handle situations or is it thier parents.. Where did they learn to behave in such a manner? Frankly one of the people there knew the "thugs" were not invited to the party and could have dialed 911 before it escalated to a shooting.. But we all know everyone will stand around and watch like a bunch of common crooks themselves.

Punched and hit with bottles? They needed to get shot. They might not attack someone as fast next time eh?

Dead after 10 years. You don't know much about the regs, because the worst bills were Reagan's machinegun ban and Bush I's import ban

DOU - Do you have a reading comprehension problem? I said the ONLY time I was affected by a president's gun policy was Clinton. I was a minor during Reagan's years, so anything under that tenure is irrelevant to me. Keep in mind I'm talking about ME and MY being affected here, not anyone else. Those 30-round clips shot up in price and that affected ME. And to date, I have NOT been affected by any other president regarding my purchasing needs and decisions. That's not an opinion. That's a FACT whether you like it or not.

Now I'm going to ask you a second time now since you failed to answer it the first time: which is it? Do you liberals want the GOP to be more on our side or do you want the GOP to be more for gun control? You can't have it both ways sport.

Unfortunately, the laws that allow one to carry a gun in this state allow ANYONE to carry a gun.

It's those that abuse the priviledge to have one make it necessary for those that respect what a gun does and what it's for to, sadly, need to sometimes use one.

Anyone that thinks it's ok to just wave a gun around because he or she can is an @!$%#. We have had a murder in the family which involved such behavior. A life for stupidity and macho bull@!$%#.

I have been told that if you pull a gun on someone, you better be prepared to use it.

@Travlin...

"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed".

Yeah, along with a well regulated militia, the above sentence is also written in the 2nd amendment.

Any one of you liberal idiots should have the mental capacity to look it up.

I anxiously await a liberal response telling me how this does not guarantee my right to keep and bear arms as a citizen of the U.S.

Vines said he punched one of the men, while his friend hit both of the men over the head with a bottle. Either one or both of the men then started shooting…

It seems that these so-called victims (Vines and his friend) are guilty of assault and battery with intent to do bodily harm.
The shooters could initially be considered to be acting in self defense until they began shooting the place up. Then there's always the probability that they don't have concealed carry permits.

Travelinginfogot:

Not too big on history are you? The Militias you mention were composed of the general citizenry.

In fact, Thomas Jefferson so mistrusted a central national military, that he actually supported the militias over the standing army of the day. Try reading his seventh annual message of 10/27/1807 as an example.

"It went from us chilling with females to a massacre" IS the problem. Chilling with some Girls, OK. Chilling with the ladies, OK. "With females" implies ownership. It the prevailing attitude. Women as property. Just a bunch of strutting cocks(as in birds) booming. They are territorial birds and often defend their booming grounds. These booming grounds are the area in which they perform their displays in hopes of attracting females. Their displays consist of inflating air sacs located on the side of their neck and snapping their tails just like prairie chickens and some other birds do.

In colonial days Militia , meant ; all able body males between 16 and 60 years old, who can be called up in times of danger to protect their village, town city state or Nation; they were required to have a least one long gun, one pouch of lead balls, and one full horn of powder; therefore the rights of all citizens to bear arms shall not be infringed.

Hope they thought the woman was worth dying over- and having other people die over as well. Innocent victims don't smash beer bottles over other peoples heads. Sounds like too much testosterone mixed with too much booze and too little common sense.

It seems that these so-called victims (Vines and his friend) are guilty of assault and battery with intent to do bodily harm.
The shooters could initially be considered to be acting in self defense until they began shooting the place up. Then there's always the probability that they don't have concealed carry permits.

The shooters could have been defending themselves from an angry crowd also.

Perhaps TRAVELINFOTOG might have not been 100% technically correct in his statements, but the point is that if the founding fathers had a glimpse of what America would be like in the 20th and 21st centuries, where school children are shooting each other, where automatic weapons are in the hands of criminals shooting a dozen people within 30 seconds, I highly doubt they would have worded "the right to bear arms" as is. If they could have envisioned the ongoing carnage caused by guns (and types of guns they could not even begin to imagine) they would have definitely worded this "right" very differently.

It was a different world when that was written. They didn't have automatic weapons, hollow tip bullets, bullets that can tear through a bullet proof vest, hell they didn't even have bullet proof vests, nor did they need any back then. It's just like a lot of things written in the bible, they simple don't or can't apply to modern times. Such as forbidding the eating of pork or stoning a woman for having sex during her period. Documents need to be "living". Rules need to change with the times. If we treated the rules in the bible as we did the constitution, we'd still be stoning people and killing first born males.

NOTE: I am neither a Democrat or Republican, Liberal or Conservative, I think both parties are corrupt and have big corporations, banks, the military, calling the shots for them. So if you are going to collapse my post, you are not collapsing a "liberal's rantings", you are collapsing COMMON SENSE!

Who gives a S$%T. DNA is DNA.

Once again. Time and time over, a horrific black on black on crime; and no outrage from the black community. They made their voices heard after the Trayvon Martin killing . But here, as in hundreds of instances, nothing but stone cold silence. Nothing. Nada. Not even a murmur. Same as Muslims who claim to deplore violence, but never vocalize in any way to protest it. How can this be??

@travelinfotog

. The 2nd Amendment does NOT grant every tom dick or hairy ball sack the right to own a @!$%#ing gun unless that person is in a militia to protect the state. The rights of the individuals IN the militia shall not be infringed, not the average citizen.

When the Constitution was written, the only people who owned guns were those in militias, those are the facts.

You're wrong. On many levels. Firstly, the militia is a byproduct of the "right of the people to keep and bear arms," not a prerequisite. Secondly, "the only people who owned guns were those in militias," is so unbelievably false it makes my jaw drop-- especially when you supplement it with the declamatory: "those are the facts." Well sir, no they aren't. Any one with even a passing knowledge of American history would know that firearms have been used in this country for hunting since the first pilgrims landed. But, because I know my statements will be dismissed by you as "an opinion" rather than fact, I've decided to cite a well-respected grammatician on the meaning of the second amendment (and I should also point out that I myself have a degree in English literature and I can tell you, unequivocally, that your interpretation of the 2nd amendment is inaccurate).

[Copperud:] "The words 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,' contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitutes a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying 'militia,' which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject 'the right', verb 'shall'). The to keep and bear arms is asserted as an essential for maintaining a militia.

"In reply to your numbered questions:

[Schulman:] "(1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to 'a well-regulated militia'?"

[Copperud:] "(1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people."

[Schulman:] "(2) Is 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right 'shall not be infringed'?"

[Copperud:] "(2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia."

[Schulman:] "(3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well regulated militia, is, in fact necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed' null and void?"

[Copperud:] "(3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as a requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence."

[Schulman:] "(4) Does the clause 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,' grant a right to the government to place conditions on the 'right of the people to keep and bear arms,' or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?"

[Copperud:] "(4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia."

[Schulman:] "(5) Which of the following does the phrase 'well-regulated militia' mean: 'well-equipped', 'well-organized,' 'well-drilled,' 'well-educated,' or 'subject to regulations of a superior authority'?"

[Copperud:] "(5) The phrase means 'subject to regulations of a superior authority;' this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military."

[Schulman:] "(6) (If at all possible, I would ask you to take account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200 years ago, but not take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated."

[Copperud:] "To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: "Since a well-regulated militia is necessary tot he security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.'

[Schulman:] "As a 'scientific control' on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence,

"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.'

"My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,

"(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?; and

"(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict 'the right of the people to keep and read Books' only to 'a well-educated electorate' — for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?"

[Copperud:] "(1) Your 'scientific control' sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure.

"(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation."

Professor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his cover letter: "With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative efforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach any conclusion."

Read the full article here: http://constitution.org/2ll/schol/2amd_grammar.htm

So there you have it. For all your blathering and table pounding and admonitions that others are incapable of reading, it is you, sir, who have misread the document-- and made a total fool of yourself in the process. Congratulations.

Steve in WA-2586156

Absolutely amazing!! I didn't see a single reference to this being Obama's fault. Wow.

Steve, we were all just showing our sympathy for him knowing all these guys could have looked just like his son if he had one.

Sorry for the deaths, condolences to the families.

I love the way that the idiots on here immediately jump out with the "black community is not outraged"

You wouldn't know because you are too busy pounding your chests about how much better you are than everyone else. "It's only thugs, ghetto animals, etc" that do this.

So what do we call all of the School shooters?

The College shooters?

What kind of animals, and other vile names are they? You have no idea how crazy this makes those of us who know that this behavior is insane. And NO Jesse and Al are not going to be there unless .... The shooter is taken to the police station and then allowed to go home with no charges being filed!

What is it about the fact that someone was allowed to leave when there had been no full investigation that YOU people can't handle? Look at you right now. Nasty, vile, full of hate.

I'm glad that the second amendment is alive and well, because I see that I am going to need all of the firepower that my husband and I have should the folks that believe that they are some how superior to everyone else show up at our door!

Shooter must have been a "Tide" fan.

Gun violence is only a tragedy when it happens in small town America or in the suburbs; when it happens to blacks its not a big deal because only white life matters.

CHERISH LIFE, hug a little whinny assed white kid today!

Where is the outrage from the African American Community leaders, is because the suspect is another African American. The violence among Africans American is higher than any other group, but when the violence comes from a Latino, Caucasian or Asian is reason to demand justice. I'm astonish for the silence of Sharpton , Jackson and the others and their lack of support to reduce the violence in their communities.

travelinfotog " Time to stop this absurdity with allowing guns everywhere to anyone who can apply and pass the background check.. Its disgusting.."

So you are ASSUMING that the shooter got his gun legally?

I wouldn't bet on it.

Ciewywtb42mh6sps-23 "Gun violence is only a tragedy when it happens in small town America or in the suburbs; when it happens to blacks its not a big deal because only white life matters."

Very creative - turning a Black on Black crime into a reason to bash Whites.

Good grief!! Get off the gun ban cr@p!!! You would have to ban beer bottles also to prevent this from going postal. Stop the racism sh!t!!! This is about students and young people that made some really poor decisions and paid for them with their lives--and one who will likely spend the rest of his life in prison, if he is convicted. That is a pretty big "if" sense he was attack first with a bottle to the head. This is about a fight that went horribly wrong....some innocent victims were hurt and some not so innocent were killed. It could just as easily ended with a knife fight. You people are turning a fight gone wrong into your personal soap box agenda. What went wrong here is bad decisions and poor judgment. In the first place, there isn't a girl/guy on the planet worth fighting over--never will be.

Steve in WA-2586156 "Absolutely amazing!! I didn't see a single reference to this being Obama's fault. Wow."


Congrats for having the dubious honor of being first.

grilledcheesesandwich "And because the criminals know that very few people are armed, they are fearless about robbing and killing people and invading people's homes. Yeah, the liberals have a done a GREAT job here in Jersey. Idiots."

And in Arizona people are not only allowed to own handguns, but carry them around in a visible holster. Of course, they also have one of the lowest personal crime rates. I wonder if there's a connection?

What amazes me is there is NOT one reference to outlawing bottles which seem to have started the shooting. So with that said let us all join together and ban bottles (especially booze bottles).

A few facts about militias and the Continental Army. First, by the time the Constitution was written the Continental Army had been disbanded. Please recall that we won the Revolutionary War. The difference between an Army and a militia is quite extreme. An Army is supported by the government out of taxes. Under the mliitia system of the 1700 through to the later 1800, you had to pay for your own equipment out of your pocket. And not just any equipment. States told those who had to serve in their state's militia what weapons they had to own. There were units that every volunteer (usually groups like dragoons), but they had to purchase even more expensive equipment out of their own pockets. By the year 1830, the entire standing Army of the USA was less than 5,000 men.

After the American Revolution, we had no intention of taxing our people to support an Army. After all, one of the primary reasons that the British had taxed us was for supplying troops to protect the western frontiers. It would have been anathema to them to have a large standing Army at the tax payers expense. Of course, there were no tanks and helicopters as part of the military accountraments of that time period. Please also note that there was little hunting throughout most of the USA at that time. For 200+ years the early Americans and their colonial forfathers had been using the forests for building, heating, a chemical source (ash and wood being a common source for valuable chemicals) and even selling wood to Europe. By 1830, most of the eastern seaboard was heavily deforested with estimates between 70 to 80 percent of the country being deforested. Today, Massachusetts is about 70 wooded. If you are going to pontificate about the militia systems and the history of the US military, perhaps you could become educated about it.

(US Army and historian of the Early American Republic)

@Roy

I don't think it's fair to lump liberals together with the "gun grabbers." I know plenty of liberals that own firearms and consider it a sacrosanct American right. I generally believe that gun grabbers are their own particular idiom, replete with their own brand of morality, self-importance and idiocy. They often self-identify as liberals, but I think they fail to appreciate what that term actually means. The phrase "liberal gun laws" actually means laws with few restrictions, as in, "a liberal pour of rum" = a large measure of the good stuff. Liberal shares the same root-word as "liberty" and one of its primary definitions is "favoring or permitting freedom of action." As in, the freedom to own a firearm.

I read an article the other day accounting for all the hunters by state who have a lisc, the reason why we will not be invaded inland is because of the 1 billion hunters who own legal firearms, that is a well regulated legal 2nd Amendment that will be able to stand against invasion. In MI alone there was listed 700,000 hunters alone, if I recall. You anti-gun people never rest with your bs rhetoric, but We the People still stand strong, even if you are pu$$sy's who cry and moan about gun rights, not a privilege note a right so shut your pie hole.

And those of you who try to educate the fools are wasting your time, because they are uneducated in the realities of the 2nd Amendment Right, history proves they are stupid thralls and fools.

I'm sure you gun loons would say

... "If everyone at that party had been armed then this tragedy would never have happened". lol

And I'm sure your assumption would be wrong, Greg. And point-in-fact, they were armed-- with bottles. Not as lethal as a firearm, but a lethal weapon in the eyes of the law none-the-less.

Travelingfotog;

Apparently you have missed the three Supreme Court decisions regarding the 2nd Amendment, the most recent, where in the Justices opined, "The right to keep and bear are IS in fact the right of the INDIVIDUAL and not a state right. States and government entities have no such RIGHTS, rights are vested SOLELY in the people, the government and it agents have only those authorities granted them by the people, Authorities that can be rescinded at any time by the people. Barring any legal barrier, such as a felony conviction or the like, the right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed". Take an American history and American government class not taught by the extreme left. Facts are tough to set aside. Even for one as proficient in disinformation as you seem to be.

Is Bush STILL the President? I thought he left in 2009.

TiredVoter-951582

Thanks & agree,

From a liberal gun hunter.

grilledcheesesandwich "And because the criminals know that very few people are armed, they are fearless about robbing and killing people and invading people's homes. Yeah, the liberals have a done a GREAT job here in Jersey. Idiots."

And in Arizona people are not only allowed to own handguns, but carry them around in a visible holster. Of course, they also have one of the lowest personal crime rates. I wonder if there's a connection?

Yeah ROY WILSON and how about how the State Police, governer and other libs tried to completely ban the those mean killing black rifles. They even used a full auto m16 as a demo and shot up some melons(I think they were melons) The lies that these pussies put out in NJ is just amazing, so damn afraid of a gun.

Just remember folks that the police are minutes away when seconds count.

This a really sad, sad. It is not about race or Black on Black crime. What is worse two White kids shoot up a school? Or did we forget about that terrible crime. Three very young people were killed, it is about people and why this happen! The madness has got to stop!!!

This is for TravelingFotog...My friend it's you who needs to go and study the constitution a little better. First and foremost go study the MILITIA ACT OF 1792 and THE DICK ACT OF 1902. Every citizen 18 and older who abides by the law, is able bodied and is mentaly sane has the right to carry. We the people are the militia. There are 3 forms of Militias. First there's the STANDING ARMY which the Federal government guides. Then there's the MILITIA AKA THE NATIONAL GUARD which the states guide and the last form of defense for our country is THE UNORGANIZED MILITIA(The regular Citizenry). It was the regular citizenry who fought the war of independence.

I leave you with these quotes from our 3rd president of the united states Thomas Jefferson and I hope you and everyone else get the picture.

"Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state."

"When the government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the
government, there is tyranny."

"What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure"

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government"

"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it."

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."

Why is this news? It's just black people being black people.

Like Willie Jones in the movie Friday said. Young people so quick to pull a gun cause you're to scared to take a ass whooping. Some fool or coward has to bring a gun to a pool party. Hitting with a bottle isn't exactly honorable either.

What the hell kind of name is Turquorius Vines?? He deserves to get shot just for that name. Jez, what happened to Fred or John or Pete???

Jack Smith, I do not fully concur with your statement but Oskar makes a very legitimate point. Where is all the media, Rev Jackson and brother Al? This lack of comment and action on their part gives creedence to Jacks statement? It is almost as if what Jack is saying is somehow true. Keep worrying about Trayvon and forget about the real battle here and the racist community and money grabbers from both sides will have their way.

black on black!! where the hell is al and jesse? oh yea only when whitey be`s the shooter than they show, 10,000.00 bounty on this shooter azz where be`s the black panthers? OH SNAP NO WHITEY IN THIS ONE, i guess the`ll all show up when whitey be shooten again!!! sad but true !!!!! very sad!!!!

obama just lost at least four votes.

Over 40 shootings in Chicago over Memorial day weekend and 43 more this weekend. I see a pattern here.

Grilledcheesesandwich; what NJ are you living in? We are not over-ran with gun toting criminals. You are a moron.

Over 40 shootings in Chicago over Memorial day weekend and 43 more this weekend. I see a pattern here.

The pattern is the effectiveness of the gun control measures. Possibly a "Fast & Furious II".

@Travelinfotog When the Constitution was written, the only people who owned guns were those in militias,

Can someone really be this ignorant!!! People had guns in order to eat you fool. You think they drove to the grocery store each week! They had to hunt for their food. Long before the Constitution even came into play, just about every settler had a gun and could shoot.

yuba2000 you got that right. See Milwaukee's and Detroit's weekend body count too. I remember seeing MLK marching right past my dorm in college. He was such a fool! MLK wanted education; this is now happening in university housing. Instead of pursuing his message and lifting themselves up like MLK envisioned this element is making it harder / impossible for anyone to study and learn. As for Al and Jesse and those "activists" ... remember, it's not a 'cause' to them; it's a CAREER! They're funded and make a darned good living off this stuff when it feeds "the cause"; don't expect them to show up or talk to the media!

travelinfotog, there are as many guns in the US as there are people. I just love that. It is every Americans right to own a gun...or many guns if they wish. They do not need to be in the militia.
I love the Second Amendment.
Keep your progressive talking points to yourself.

Have a nice day.

As is usual when I read an article from MSNBC, I found it enlightening to look for this story on some OTHER sources.

To my surprise (NOT!!), I find that the picture of the shooter that MSNBC chooses to print is a DOCTORED MUG SHOT.

So, I'm guessing that the guy's gun is NOT legally purchased and licensed.

Like Mr Account says: "And those of you who try to educate the gun toting fools are wasting your time, because they are uneducated in the realities of the 2nd Amendment Right, history proves they are stupid thralls and fools."

WHAT?, whatever.

First off, the Constitution is a living document. It was designed to progress as our great nation progresses. The Second Amendment is one of the most archaic provisions of our Constitution. It was a hugely necessary provision when written but has lost much of its necessity today. Really, how in danger of governmental tyranny are we at this point? With that said, it is something that could possibly be a danger in the future, and, therefore, the Second Amendment has survived to today.

Someone mentioned NH Article 2a, upon which the Second Amendment's drafting was - in part - modeled. I don't like to get into the historical interpretation of statutes, but this person was so far off I just need to comment on it. That person was correct that NH Article 2a was not, itself, limited to militias. And it was this very reason that our forefathers added "militias" to the Second Amendment. Specifically because of isssues with other statutes not so limited. And that is why our understanding of what "militia" meant back then is so important. What our forefathers meant by "militia" is, of course, open to debate.

Finally, I find it peculiar the lengths gun advocates will go to try to broadly interpret the Second Amendment. First of all, your right to own a gun is not going anywhere. Second, regulating guns is done on a benefit/burden analysis. When the safety of our children or our general society outweighs the right of some redneck to carry a pistol around we regulate that activity. There is nothing wrong with trying to make our country a safer place. The Second Amendment does not grant a "right." The Constitution, itself, does not grant "rights." It provides a floor upon which the federal government cannot deny certain rights. Such as speech, religion, and assembly. These rights, however, can be limited. And they often are. Studying Constitutional Theory way back in law school, I was exposed to arguments on both sides of the aisle regarding gun control. What is fascinating is that so many of the arguments on the pro-gun side come from an emotional, often childish, "you can't take my gun from me!" point of view. They're like a child arguing that her toy can't be taken away from her. I can assure you that our forefathers did not include a right to bear arms in our Constitution in order to protect an individual's right to play with his toys, which is the majority of what guns are used for today - recreational hunting, going to the gun range, etc. It was designed to protect against governmental tyranny and has progressed to include protecting onesself from one's neighbors. A debate still rages, however, regarding whether owning a gun actually helps protect onesself from his neighbors. I wonder how much more "protected" everyone would have been in this incident had the individual with the beer bottle been carrying a gun instead of a beer bottle. My personal opinion is that it wouldn't have made anyone much safer.

Moral to the story here is DO NOT ATTACK PEOPLE cause you may get shot and die. Real life is not the movies and people do have the right to protect themselves. Having an argument and stuff is one thing but assaulting someone with a broken bottle is more than enough justification for them to shoot you dead.

Insult obama every democrat and it's alright. Insult the idiot and all those who supported him to throw our economy to @!$%# and I'm doing something wrong. What the hell.

Know what? I don't give a flying Wallenda who owned guns back in 1792, who supplied them or who they were for.

Back then there was an entity called the Unorganized Militia, consisting of every able-bodied adult male. The Unorganized Militia last appeared on the field of battle during the War of 1812. It performed so poorly it never was called out again.

The Second Amendment is a dead letter, like the Third Amendment (you don't here much these days about the quartering of troops in private homes). It would have been repealed a century ago except for the amount of money involved. Guns are big business along with all the satellite industries; holster makers, ammunition, magazines (the kind you buy at the candy store), reloading equipment and so on. Unfortunately, guns are one of the few things manufactured in the USA that people here and abroad still want to buy from us.

Roid Rage..

Panty Raid gone wrong?

Someone get a bad bag of crack?

I find it interesting too that Turquorius Vines is shocked that when you hit someone first, sometimes it escalates. He is just like Trayvon Martin--think you've got the edge? Ok to use force. They guy you beat on? HE's the bad guy.

There ARE no good guys in either case.but I reserve a BAD guy status to the ones who struck the first blow.

Was the guy that Vines struck White with a latino mother, if so that explains it, glad the media pumps these stories to the max, especially when our freedoms are under attack by the current administration, along with unemployment. Thanks Media for wasting my time.

travelinfotog

You are wrong: The Second Amendment (Amendment II) to the United States Constitution is the part of the United States Bill of Rights that protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. in 2008 and 2010, the Supreme Court issued two Second Amendment decisions. In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Court ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to possess a firearm, unconnected to service in a militia^- and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home.

AND GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE....IRRESPONSIBLE PEOPLE DO....

MD Virginia: What freedom have you lost? You still can use this mean to show how stupid you are. Wasting your time? You took the time to post this and then you say that they waste your time? Nobody forced you to post, if you decided to 'waste' your time, don't blame it on someone else. Typical neocon... screw it and blame it on someone else.

MOmaid, big difference between fighting over "hos" and walking back from 7-11 minding you're own business. Lawfully just walking home being stalked by a unknown stranger. For all Martin knew Zimmerman was a sexual predator following him. Ask your self would Zimmerman's actions be OK with you if he was stalking your kid down the street.

Wonder how soon Jesse and Al Simpleton will arrive. I just know this was caused by a white man.

As I read through these comments I can see why the US has so many racial problems and tensions. The derogatory comments and stereotypes that continue about African Americans creates an insurmountable challenge between the races.

Not sure any of you will get it but I'm going to call you out on it:

Stelth1 #1.29 “Remember this minorities...” ;

Thomas101 #1.50 “We should provide parties like that for “them” and eventually they will knock one another off pretty dam fast! No big loss.” ;

danimyl #4.14 “Chances are Miss Ann the guns were stolen.” How do you know this one?

ConservativeNotRepublican #4.4 “Something tells me that the odds are the shooters weren't permit holding gun owners.” How did you come to this conclusion?

Jim DeSantis #4.9 “when I read the headlines I automatically knew it was an African American because they are violent in nature and one carrying a gun will no doubt use it at some time or another.” Really Jim I too can say the same about your heritage...aren't all Italians in the mafia? Don't they do Italian on Italian crimes just like others have commented about the black on black crimes?

I'm only to #4.....Many racial comments using “Thugs” which points to too much watching of Fox Comedy called News. Many derogatory comments about President Obama being bi-racial. It's difficult to find a comment without someone talking about race. Why?

I can't even continue to read so many negative comments like these pointing out race and creating tensions. African Americans aren't on here because they are above you low lives. The reason we have so many racial tensions in the U.S. is because of people “such as these” on this site who are still living in the civil war era. You really don't have a clue. And if you're from the north, the south still doesn't like you. They only tolerate you because they have to.

Black parts of town are the most violent parts of any town in America. Tension is created any time anyone black or white drives through certain parts of our town on a friday or saturday night.Call it racist if you wish, but the facts are the facts. Stereotypes are almost always based in fact. As for race, eighty percent of the posts bringing up race are made by liberals.

Oh my, my, my...where to even start, Karlene?!?!

I agree with you about one thing - for the most part. If you're from the North, some Southerners don't like you. But wait just a minute here - I'm feeling like you have diminished me as a person because I am a Southerner and you have lumped me into a group of individuals who dislikes all the Yanks. How is this any different than the comments made by others of which you consider racist?

The fact is that blacks cry and demand fairness and equality, but a large segment of their population act like complete fools. At what point do you quit demanding to be taken care of by others and take responsibility and ownership of your own life? Nobody gives a crap what this white woman does or makes any special provisions for me. If I was black, I would have a wealth of opportunity available to me if I was only willing to put some extra effort into my life and take advantage of the possibilities available to me.

I don't care where you're from, what color your skin is, who you love, or for whom you vote, as long as you get up off your lazy backside and you're doing something to be a contributing member of society.

So while you sit wherever you are on your high horse lumping Southerners in to a hate group and spewing more excuses for the deplorable behavior of others, don't assume your comments make you any better or smarter than the people you judged in your post.

Kate! Than you for this brilliant post!

KARLENE like me many people are sick of hearing the term "racist" applied to events where someone is involved that is not black. Sharpton and Jackson are a major reason "racism" will not go away. These two loudmouths continually stir the race pot at every opportunity. Personally I think America has paid the price for too many years for the past.

I resent the reference to "you low lives". You are the one who does not have a clue if you don't realize there is a marked difference between incidents of black on black or another ethinic group and black. Appears many in the black community wants to keep the discrimination and race issue alive with every opportunity.

Tom, that is because white people feel guilt, and hand over more freebies.

Where is Obama, those kids could be like their son. No comments, because is black/black violence?

Karlene,

Google 'crime statistics by race' for some perspective. The complexion of their skin is not the issue. It's about the culture.

Who was it who said, "violence is as American as cherry pie?"

Get my drift?

Markie, that was the late Eldridge Cleaver and he said violence is as American as apple pie, not cherry pie.

Well, he would have known all about violence, robber and cop shooter that he was. In his prison-authored book Soul on Ice Cleaver bragged about all the white women he raped but he never was convicted or even charged with raping a white woman. It was just a lot of hoo-rah meant to make him look a badass in the Community.

Ironically, he ended his chaotic life a conservative Republican.

I'm sure the guy had a pistol permit.

get some kind of life-you owe it to yourself

What is the Constitution right to bare arms? There is a Constituitution right to bear arms.

Something tells me the odds are that the shooters weren't permit holding gun owners, nor were they Republicans, nor were they Mitt Romney supporters. And yet somehow, it's the GOP's fault.

Ya gotta love the delusional logic of liberals. The gift that just keeps on giving. And from a self proclaimed constitutional scholar at that. I mean really, even after 200 years and numerous Supreme Court decisions, according to George Anne, the court just keeps getting it wrong over and over again.

George Anne you flaming idiot! How many of these morons do you think ever voted GOP? BTW, It is your wonderboy president that brags that chosing his next assassination victim is like palying cards!

Do yourself a favor, educate yourself or shut up. The, at least the rest of us will not not how ignorant you really are.

George Anne, look up Dunning-Kruger Syndrome, your picture awaits.

The right to bare arms means you don't have to wear long sleeves. Blaming deaths in such a situation on the GOP is a bit of a stretch.

Yes, it is my right to bare arms. It is summer and really hot out.

conservative

It is your wonderboy president that brags that chosing his next assassination victim is like palying cards!

See, BD's comments, just proves that delusional comments don't just come from liberals.

Automobiles kill too but we cant stop people from driving or buying them. Someone had to pull the trigger for that gun to fire and a responsible person wasnt behind the gun. How many NRA members do you know or heard about that used a gun in a violent manner? Its funny but when I read the headlines I automatically knew it was afro-americans because they are violent in nature and one carrying a gun will no doubt use it at some time or another. Its their M.O. . Dont forget people carry guns because they plan on using it whether self denfense or otherwise.

I have a permit for my short sleeve shirt mister.

George Anne: based on your comment I will add one. A few less Obama supporters!

George Anne: what is getting out of hand is the courts are too soft on crime. When are you guys going to get it, stop the work out rooms, money on their books, color t.v., etc. etc. make them get up at 5:00 in the morning for breakfast, then have them dig ditches all day, that will keep the jails less full! And in to bed by 8:00. And what happened to the old days where you got 10 years for robbery????????????????????

@George Anne

Well this is getting out of hand with people shooting each other over petty stuff..This is what the GOP wants, guns guns guns. KILL KILL KILL..TV, Movies ,Books, Comedy...Don't like someone , Don't like their option...just shoot them dead, right??...So much for the sensibility of the NRA...TO Bad None of you know what the Constitutions right to bare arms means..Not even the supreme court knows the real meaning...So SAD....

So much wrong with your (il)logic it is difficult to know where to begin. The right to "bare arms" - seems like someone used that right. How can you dare to criticize others for ignorance about the constitution, when you can't even spell? By the way, liberals are responsible for uncensored violence and killings in movies, TV and print; can't see how the republicans are responsible for that. As far as gun's killing people - it is about as intelligent as saying a spoon and fork makes someone fat. And as stated earlier, does not look like the culprits or victims in this incident were GOP members.

Chances are Miss Anne that the guns were stolen and it is well known that the majority of black folk are liberals like yourself making your statement having as much sense as your mother being pro-life

GeorgeAnn, please go back to the third grade and get a few smarts. Obviously you are one of the misguided Democraps wishing to blame everything on the NRA, guns or Republicans. As a 72 year old citizen/patriot with a CCP...,I can't run, don't fight anymore, will try to avoid a problem, yet if the problem insists on being a problem or endangering me or mine...,I defend myself with "little brother"...he only know six words all starting with B. Get the point?

No offense to some of you ladies,but some of yall set guys up for this downfall.I had to bail my cousin out of a situation like this not too long ago.If he never seen these guys before,that chic must have told dude something to make him approach them.Sad,very sad...Wrong place,wrong time!!!

Hey ConServe

This President has extended gun rights, not taken them away as the NRA Nazis have claimed.. King George did NOT. President Obama has allowed guns in National Parks for the first time in this nations history.. GOTCHA

So the 2nd amendment applies to everyone then? Umm read it again ConServ.. If a person is an individual in a militia then that persons right to own a gun shall not be infringed upon. That is the proper way to read the 2nd amendment, after-all it is a single sentence. If the founding fathers truly meant every citizen then they would have been very specific. They were very specific with many details about this how to govern this nation. The 2nd amendment is very clear. Individuals within Militias are the only people to own guns, as those were the protectors of the free state. Not every tom dick orf harry had a gun back in the day. Women were precluded from owning guns. So what does that say? Not every citizens. Slaves were people 3/5th of a person, no gun rights.. So.. What does that say. NOT every individual then.. Hmmm keep talking Con

Folks, protect your right to Bare Arms... remember to use plenty of sunscreen if you're outdoors all day!

When you have no valid argument the logical next step would be to correct your adversaries spelling and grammar. That surely puts you, and your non-opinion, a step ahead.

Grow up.

@travelinfotog

So the 2nd amendment applies to everyone then? Umm read it again ConServ.. If a person is an individual in a militia then that persons right to own a gun shall not be infringed upon. That is the proper way to read the 2nd amendment,

Lets see how can I explain this in a way that even you can understand? Militias were not military regiments they were ordinary citizens who if called upon would rally in support of their providence or country much like the National Guard of today except they were not paid unless they joined the continental army and even then many were not paid the reason for the 2nd amendment was to guarantee a '' Well guarded Militia'' by allowing ordinary citizens to own guns so if called upon they would be ready to come to bear

wburnes

Im with you, too old to fight, too crippled to run, but my trigger finger works just fine.

danimyl

Something people dont realize about the words "well regulated militia", back then the words well regulated meant well equiped and trained, and most men were in county militia of some sort.

Really George? This isn't a political piece...please get off your soap box.

Mike...no offense to you guys, but not all women are into the drama. Some guys are just like some women.

Maybe if men wouldn't let the one head do all the thinking over the other there wouldn't be all this drama.

@George Anne and travelin

What does "the right of the people" in the Constitution mean? Is the people only the militia? If so, then only the militia has a right of free speech. If so then only the militia has the right to be secure in their homes. If so, then only the militia are THE PEOPLE and the 1st, 4th,9th, and 10th Admendments must only refer to the militia. The Constitution is very clear to anyone that is capable of simple understanding. The RIGHT of the PEOPLE SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!

Stop trying to explain or argue with travelinfotog...he is just trying to stir the pot. He knows the truth and if he really believes what he says then no amount of explanation or Supreme Court rulings will ever change his mind...people like him are best ignored and left to debate themselves. If they are just stirring the pot the will soon quit when ignored and if they really believe what they say they will only make themselves look even more foolish as they continue to talk to them self.

George Anne.............if you want to cut the murder rate by 70% or more make it illegal for blacks to own guns..........oops, that doesn't work either does it...............let see, how to keep blacks from killing blacks.........that's the million dollar question that will never ever be solved.

Let me clear this up for yous..I'm probably a lot older than most of you..I'm not a member of any Political Party..I choose my reps based on their ability and who they are . Todays Politicians are in it for the benefit..Their the ones that tell you lies and you belive it..Money is the game And because I singled out the GOP on this one suddenly makes me a liberal haha.Why I understand this is just ONE Tragedyin what is becoming common place on the news...First of all, there are to many people abusing they right to have a firearm... I don't think you should have a gun concealed...Wear it up front so people know you're armed....And some of you don't get my statement because you lack the knowledge behind it.. Hahaha @bluepanther20 i think you need to comprehend my statement with the reality of this and all shootings and the politics involved in it..The Right to bare arms is simple...You have a right to bare arms against anyone, any group,and army or country that would try and destroy this country and it's Constitution..... That's it in a nut shell...Not what you ding dong think it is....

George Ann- Much like you I refuse to affiliate with a political party. But all Conservatives call me a Liberal because I do not believe in every single little thing they do. I get a bit tired of it. As for gun control. I think sane, intelligent people should be allowed to own guns. The 2nd amendment doesn't say everyone has a right to carry a concealed weapon- or even a handgun. Most people back then carried weapons they hunted with and I believe the amendment was written with that in mind. (I know you can kill someone with a hunting rifle- it's just not easy to conceal one) It was written in a different time for a different world. I think it's time to amend the amendment, but very carefully.

Travelinfotog...you keep harping about only the militia owning guns. When the constitution was written the "Militia" was the people. Not a standing army, but rather "the People" come with your guns to help defend our country when needed. Get it "come WITH your guns". The people is what the framers of the constitution refer to in the 2nd amendment and their intent was that the people would already have their guns and be ready in time of need. That need was from foreign invasion as well as our own government should it become tyrannous.

He's listening to Tupac.

You know. The martyr.

Breathe in, Breathe out, Breathe in......

If you type in caps he might hear you.

It's not that blacks are kept back from participating in civilization in a meaningful manner. They've been given more opportunities than most since the 60s.

The problem is that they can't participate, their culture and drives won't allow it.

I'll bet if you looked up the word "ignorant" in a dictionary, you would see your own picture. Your attitude about ethnic groups is part of the problem, not the solution. And if your attitude is directed toward the black citizens, then you should just crawl back under your "sheet" and find a cave to live in. We all know what kind of a person you are. You truly give the name "American" a black eye (no pun intended). And to think that we are breathing the same air...

@ GomerOwnsU

So what's your excuse for being a pile of crud? You've had ~ 400 year head start and are still a waste of DNA.

Without "the blacks" as you so eloquently put it, America would still be listing to "you are my sunshine" and holding up the hockey gold in 1980 as the one time they ever won anything, ever.

Black culture has influenced the global community. What have you done, beside lose teeth and marry your first cousin?

I appreciate your racism, it's all your small mind can fathom. I feel sorry for your mother/aunt

Haven't read anything about the case but I work at a university and prior to this, another big name university with a big football program that was founded by a founding father. All I can say is that they're all pretty much thugs. They have parties and invite their non-student thug friends and their friends invite more thug friends and eventually someone gets shot. It's not racial, it's not profiling, it's just the TRUTH. How many times have any cops been called to a baseball party, or soccer party involving a shooting? Then you try and take statements from these susposedly education "students" and they write like 5 year olds. All this is, is high profile, that's all. Ain't nothing but a gangsta party.....

@Redman41

Don't stoop to his level to prove a point.

Black culture has influenced the global community. What have you done, beside lose teeth and marry your first cousin?

I don't think it's necessary to provide a history lesson on the cultural and scientific advances made by white people, and I don't think you intentionally lumped all white people into the hillbilly demographic. You are right that black culture influences the entire world. But so does white culture. Also, belittling white athletic ability is patently racist as well-- lots of white quarterbacks, boxers, MMA fighters, etc. No one race has some magic monopoly on athleticism.

All that said, I appreciate your retort to Gomer's comment. He isn't being helpful either.

The illegitimacy rate among blacks is about 72%. The rate among whites is less than 30%. It does make a difference folks.

Redman, your comment is no less racist than any others. Im white, and dont recall screwing family members personally, but one never knows. The situation here is sad. It was a fight that got outta hand and an idiot deemed it okay to shoot up the place. It happens, unfortunately, all the time. I do agree that Sharpton and Jackson do only step up when it is a different ethnicity against black crime. I think if they brought awareness to all crimes they would be doing something worthy. I myself lost a friernd at 19 to a drive by shooting, and the shooter was never caught. He was a white kid, but we never thought anything other than we just lost a friend. Racism doesn't always have to be thrown out there as some excuse all the time. Bad situations are just that, bad situations. Remember people, Its just a person's pigmentation that makes them the color they are. We all bleed the same color. As far as cultures, I dont recall being black a culture who took out hockey and such. And isnt Stevie Wonder black? I happen to like that song. As far as surroundings, you can come from the nastiest part of town, but still know the difference between right and wrong. I'm from the South Bronx, and don't go around shooting people. Just all my opinion.

The problem is that they can't participate, their culture and drives won't allow it.

"There are many humorous things in the world; among them, the white man's notion that he less savage than the other savages." Mark Twain

The U is just making sure that news that might sully its reputation doesn't get out into the public and deter students from borrowing money to attend there.

Nothing new.

Thoroughly? Naw we need titillation. Show me some tits.

The U has nothing to do with it. The location is actually several miles away from campus and its the Auburn police chief. He seems to always act like this, even over not as big stuff.

Only for Black on Black crime. If the shooter was white you can bet it would be round the clock coverage of the "evil" white dude... Just ignore the facts and call out Jessie AL and the NAACP.. Oh wait...the shooter and the victims were black.. Oh then media blackout! We can't have the black people recognise that 70% of the murders in this country are committed by blacks and they are only 13% of the poulation

I am all about diversity and tolerance, but, you went way overboard....Racism is racism whether it is against blacks or whites. You do remember Atlanta's serial killer Wayne Williams, right? Wasn't it a person of Indian descent that just killed his wife and children? How about the Hispanic woman that threw her boy off a 5th floor garage because he had medical problems. Killers come in all races and colors. One's color does not justify their actions and never will. People should be judged by the content of their character and nothing else--(parphrased from MLK). Your post was really wrong and offensive....as have been many posts regarding people of color on this thread. This is about a fight between young people over a girl or girls, poor decision making, and bad behavior. Innocent people died...and some not so innocent. Race is not what this is about and neither are gun laws.

Redman -- Hitler was white, and committed genocide. Kony is black, and commits genocide to this day. In fact, most of the genocides recently or currently occurring are happening in Africa, perpetrated by black people on other blacks. In the recent ICE child-porn sting, they arrested over 100 people, many of whom were black. Black gangs routinely rape 14 year old girls (and younger). It's the news often enough-- so while I don't agree with Stealth1's comment, you're guilty again of stooping to his racist level to prove a point, with disastrous results. Face it: we're human, all of us, and we are all susceptible to the same horrors.

Black people are the worst enemy of the black people, it seems. Ninety or more percent of black murders are committed by fellow blacks. Look it up.

@Dasvet, 90% of white people killed are killed by white friends, relatives and spouses. Watch DATELINE. If you want to be stereotypical, talk about Southerners, booze, football, machismo.

Blacks, proportionately kill more people than any others in America. That blacks kill each other mostly is proof that blacks are their own most deadly enemy. Even blacks fear blacks far more than white people. I watched DATELINE, also.

Seems like quoting actual statistics gets you labeled a racist here. Well Label away a-holes. It Doesn't change the numbers. Sorry I even pointed it out. In my first post I was lamenting how the media and certain groups basically cover up black on black crime and only focus on white on black crime (murder) .This is the equivelent of alll the local fire department trucks showing up to put out your campfire while the neighborhood is burning down ( and I was flagged for that!) Please wake up people! These groups want to use you for what they can get out of you. If they REALLY cared they would be working for unity betweeen the races Like MLK did. Why do they want us divided.....easier to control, simple as that. Watch the money trail people... Common sense is becoming uncommon in Obama's America.

For over 12 hours there has been a complete and coordinated news blackout

Isn't the university taking this blackout a little far? It's not even football season an they have a local blackout. Was this an attempt to sell more tickets to the party?

Seems like quoting actual statistics gets you labeled a racist here. Well Label away a-holes. It Doesn't change the numbers. Sorry I even pointed it out. In my first post I was lamenting how the media and certain groups basically cover up black on black crime and only focus on white on black crime (murder) .This is the equivelent of alll the local fire department trucks showing up to put out your campfire while the neighborhood is burning down ( and I was flagged for that!) Please wake up people! These groups want to use you for what they can get out of you. If they REALLY cared they would be working for unity betweeen the races Like MLK did. Why do they want us divided.....easier to control, simple as that. Watch the money trail people... Common sense is becoming uncommon in Obama's America.

White on white crime is never discussed, debated, reported on, or sanctioned as having anything to do with being white. You set against your own common sense.

Black on black crime is litigated, sanctioned and reported....24/7.

Nobody brought in race until you guys did. There are white thugs too, and they usually get the same results (dead). By the way, carrying guns to a pool party is behavior that is pretty damn thuggish. The fact of the matter is that living that kind of lifestyle usually does end in a violent death.

To anger a conservative, lie to him. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.

T Roosevelt

Jonathan's comment concerned a lifestyle and not any person's race or physical characteristics. What a way to spend a Sunday afternoon---surfing the web seeking comments to read racism into.

Bull@!$%#. "Thug" is being used repeatedly to refer to Blacks only

I use it to describe white, black, asian, hispanic, ugly, dumb, blonde, brunette, tall, short, educated, uneducated, skinny, fat etc. just about any guy who acts like a "thug" so I guess I didn't get the black only memo.

bull@!$%#...i use thugs all the time to refer to thugs with badges, aka cops. usually the white ones are the worst. now if you use the term gangsta...well that's racist.

Anyone remember the Navy's elite pilots who were involved in a similar situation not too long ago?? All white people involved/killed.

This has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with over-inflated egos, jealousy, alcohol, and weapons.

So sad either way.

mynameisearlene

Bull@!$%#. "Thug" is being used repeatedly to refer to Blacks only, starting with Trayvon Martin in the FAUX NEWS blogs.

I thought it started with rappers who called themselves Thugs

Carrying guns to a pool party may have saved their lives. They were attacked.

seems to me that was the case , the term "gansta" thug came from the rap culture , then the term gangsta rapper. east coast west coast rappers going at it with automatic weapons.....and this line of thinking is kept moving by more of the same. there is no replacement for the "n" word. the term thug has been around for a long time and pretty much includes all folks any race who engage in criminal activity. so when i see black guys walking around in tee shirts that says ( thug life) on it your telling me that some black people do not support that line of thinking and if the term (thug) is another derogatory word to describe black people , that its not their own damn fault? if that were the case? these guys go to a party to have a good time , and end killing each other over stupid sh#t . regardless of race they just could not behave them selves.....sad but not surprising..

If the shoe fits, then the thug should wear it. Live like a thug, die like a thug.

Bored, How would they carry a gun to a pool party, where would they hide it? wouldn't it get wet and rusty? wouldn't the bullets get wet and fail to fire if submersed for a while? I don't think these gentlemen went to the party with the intent to swim.

"You're a thug!" "No, I'm not." "Yes you are. You are a thug!" "No sirrrrr." "Uh huh." "Mooooomm! He/she just called me a thug!!!" "Go to your room until you can play together without fighting!!"

Well, it seems there was a gun. It was probably loaded. It was probably cocked. The safety was not on. He was amongst a group of people. He started an argument there instead of taking it outside. What a waste of human life. Prayers to the victims, family, friends and the community.

I say we implement 'bottle control' laws!

Won't somebody please think of the children?

There are a LOT of short women in America that you are not aware of. :-).

Amen to that.

Such a horrible name.

What is wrong with with Turquoise Vines. They are beautiful. I just love the name Female, pronounced Fee-mah- lei, a girl of mexican heritage born in Houston.

You seem to have missed the reality check in your comment. People like this spend nine months thinking of a name that no one has ever heard or seen, and never will again. Once a unique name has been picked, their parental duties have been fulfilled. When the child is born, he raises himself on the streets, becomes a thug, and so it goes. As to the parent, they are astounded that some see them as neglectful. They reply: "I named him Turquorious, what else do I need to do as a parent.? He's the only kid named Turquorious in the world. I have fulfilled my duties as a parent."

The name is awful! I was shaking my head when I saw it.

And Bernie your comment was just mean spirited. You have no facts to back up what you spewed.

Democrats are every bit the gun lovers as Republicans. Liberal congressman John Dingell of Michigan is a huge NRA supporter. Did the Democrat-controlled Congress in 2009 through 2011 ever bring up tougher gun laws? No. Obama has not mentioned gun control one time in his four years. Speaking out loudly in 2000 on gun control caused Al Gore the state of Tennessee, the first candidate to lose his home state in a hundred years.

Kids...stop it. People kill people, not guns.

NRA? A group that makes money off of gun owners. Spend your money on classes on firearm safety, and for those of you in Alabama, driving skills.

You people are dumb, about guns, so if the bank is being robbed by bad guys with guns they approach you and demand your car with a gun, I hope the cops come running with a baton stick to defend you because he should'nt have a gun to protect you. Oh even better maybe the next time we go to war we can carry flags to wave as the enemy blows our heads off. Oh and better than that if your house gets broken into by the same bad guy two nites later with guns dont pull your gun to defend your home. Let him rape your wife and kids as you watch, then cut their throats open so they can bleed out right infront of you. Then maybe your choice of words would differ from the anti gun speech. Guns dont kill People kill. Oh I did say cut didn't I then knives should be outlawed too. Have fun cutting your steak with your spoon. JUst Sayin.

Well you people have gone from a fight gone bad to gun control, to racism and now, of course, let's blame it on politics. The blame should be placed where it belongs--squarely on the actors. It is for the courts to sort out the culpability of those involved....None of it has to do with race, gun control, or politics. Leave your personal agenda out of it. You people are amazing!!! People have died. Young people. With mothers and fathers and friends and other family--and all you can do is argue about cr@p that has nothing to do with this incident. Get a life.

I agree; and why everytime some fatel shooting happens now Obama name comes up as if he helped created the situation?

Yes, the world would be a better place without guns.

But what the gun control crowd fails to realize is that gun control is an all-or-nothing proposition. Unless all guns can be eradicated at the same time, the only thing that happens is that the bad guys get a free pass. We would even have to erase the very knowledge of making them or someone would be producing them ten minutes after the last one was picked up. Since this is impossible, there is no other option than to protect oneself or remain vulnerable. It's not pretty, but it's the truth. You don't have to have a gun if you don't want to, but you become a target for those criminals who do. Until you can guarantee that you can get rid of the law-breaker's guns you don't even have the right to ask a law abiding citizen to lay down theirs. Since that is nearly impossible, please, get back to us when you do. Until then, hush, and duck when the criminals come.

Of couse once guns are banned then it would be knives and clubs, then rocks. Lets face it what needs to happen is people need to respect life again. Amazing how we have traveled the past 60 years down the tubes. With a few notible exceptions it has been for the worse. People used to trus in God and pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Why has America gone to crap? Look no further than 60 years of welfare programs and other liberal social programs (that may have had the best of intentions) but we all know where it leads. While many here may not like morals and values....they have a way of keeping people from killing each other over stupid crap. Look no further than the fact that the US has been armed for years. Heck I took a rifle to school with me and a knife too. Now you would be expelled for that and possibly imprisioned. What happened see above and the glorification of the thug/gangsta lifestyle. You can also thank Hollywood, video games and bad parenting.

How do you know he has the music turned on? And if it is on, how do you know it's not Chopin? Whatever fits your stereotype...........

And if it is on, how do you know it's not Chopin?

I'll take a bet on that. I'll give you 100 to 1 odds too.

myname, I don't agree w/your comment on the President, but I do agree w/your comment here...racism reigns supreme...

You really are a GOOBER instead of a Gomer, aren't you?

I do hold the individuals responsible. And whoever supplied them with the weapons they shouldn't own. Nobody prone to violence or with mental instability should have a gun. So if the guns were stolen? Why weren't they properly locked up by the legal, permitted owners? Gun owners need to be held accountable for their weapons and who has access to them. If it is stolen it was not stored properly and the legal owner should lose the privilege of owning a firearm. If you argue that I really don't understand your point of view.

rmpb...And how do you purpose to decide who is prone to violence and who is unstable given certain circumstances. And, if a gun is in a lock box in your bedside table, and the lock box is stolen--with its contents--Is that cause to rescind that person's right to own firearms? Anyone can buy a gun on the street. All you need is the money. Your opinion would be great in a perfect world, but this is anything but a perfect world and gun owners get their guns stolen all of the time...They break into lock boxes and locked gun safes. They are everywhere. Don't blame the gun owners. Blame the person that makes the fateful decision to pull the trigger on another human being. That is where the blame lies and always will. Personal responsibility....for using the equipment responsibly.

A gun should not be kept in a box that can be stolen. Take responsiblility for the deadly weapons you own. If your gun is stolen and used to kill a person you should feel responsible. If you don't? Then that is my arguement against certain people owning guns. Guns bought on the street? Again, my arguement. How do these guns end up on the street? They are stolen from or sold by people who are not responsible enough to own them. I don't argue agains the right to own guns. Any responsible person should be able to own a gun. But a truly responsible persons gun would never end up in a criminals hand. Personal responsibility means you take responsibility for that weapon and where it is at ALL times. I hear people bragging about the 9mm they keep in their nightstand for protection all the time. That gun is just begging to be stolen by some criminal. And as far as I'm concerned the person who kept it in such an unsecure location is responsible for any crime comitted with it.

And by the way- I was raised with guns. Learned to shoot when I was 5. Was on the high school rifle team (1 of only 2 girls). I do not and never will believe that everyone should have the right to bear arms. Some people are just not worthy of such a privilege. I refuse to have guns in my house now but I do have a certifiable maniac that lives next to me with an armory of firearms that keep me pretty much living in fear. But hey, thanks to the NRA that crazy beeotch has every right to own them. No matter if she ends up killing me and my daughter one day in a drug induced rage. And if that should actually happen? I'm sure the NRA will have a rally during my funeral and scream "Guns don't kill people!"

I refuse to have guns in my house now but I do have a certifiable maniac that lives next to me with an armory of firearms that keep me pretty much living in fear.

If they are "certifiable" then they can't own firearms legally. Obviously this is your opinion of them, not a statement of fact.

thanks to the NRA that crazy beeotch has every right to own them.

Actually, that's due to the second amendment to the constitution, not a rifle club that began in 1871 (80 years after the second amendment was adopted, along with the other "bill of rights" amendments).

I'm sure the NRA will have a rally during my funeral and scream "Guns don't kill people!"

When has the NRA ever rallied at a funeral? That's the job of the Westboro Baptist Church.

You never heard of NRA rallying at a funeral. Research Columbine.

You have no idea what my neighbor is. She is violent. She is nasty and abusive and spends 3- 4hours a day screaming obsenities at her children. She hung her own dog in the backyard in front of everyone- including my daughter who still has nightmares. Everyone in the neighborhood has called the police on her yet she still has 7 handguns in her possesion. STFU NRA- not everyone deserves the right to own a weapon.

And every time the government considers reigning in the rights for bearing arms the NRA is the first line of defense for all the people who believe it is a constitutional right and not a privilege to own a handgun. Do not bring your rhetoric to me. You can scream it as loud as you want. You will never be right. People like my neighbor should not own guns. I'll post the news story when she finally kills her children or one of the people trying to protect them.

for all the people who believe it is a constitutional right and not a privilege to own a handgun.

Actually, it is. You may not like it, you may not agree with it, but it is a constitutionally guaranteed right. Also, your neighbor sounds like one sick f*cking ticket. If I were you, I'd get a gun just in case she went nuts enough to come into my home uninvited. The police in your community are obviously not doing their job-- its up to you to provide for your own (and your family's) safety at this point. I mean, what kind of twisted bitch hangs a dog? In front of people!? If there were witnesses, why were there not felony animal abuse charges filed? That would mandate the confiscation of her firearms...

rmpb...Actually, you have made one of the best cases I have ever heard of for protecting your family with a firearm at your disposal. You have a right to your opinion and I respect that. People that do not want to own guns should not own guns....Still, you also have an obligation to protect your daughter from the scum that obviously live right next door. Your decision. Your consequences. It is up to you to decide what is best in your situation and I don't intend to find fault with your judgment. It sounds very scary and nobody should have to live in fear of their neighbors on a day to day basis--especially when you have a precious child to protect. I wish you well.

BTW...I am no fan of the NRA since they referred to law enforcement as "jack booted thugs." I was a member for many years and have since joined the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation--and I am much happier with their goals and values. La Pierre will never get another cent from me. Unfortunately, I just happen to believe that most crimes are committed while the police are some where else. I believe that it is my responsibility to protect myself as best I can...but that doesn't mean that it is right for everybody. I got that.

My step son had a gun safe attached to his wall and it was stolen so describe how you would prevent that from happening!!! Yes, the whole safe stolen off of the wall with $10,000 or more worth of guns in it!!! He was responsible but the crime not preventable, just glad he wasn't there when they arrived to commit the crime!

He didn't pull a knife. He pulled a GUN.

He didn't pull a knife. He pulled a GUN .......

Exactly. HE pulled a gun! not the NRA, Not Sarah Palin, not the gun manufacturer, HE! HE is at fault Period.

That is not dya's point. Answer his/her question. Agree totally, it is like in A Clockwork Orange. Poor, poor, boy. A victim of the modern age. A bit of nastiness, Yes? I assume dya is male but do not want to offend any thinking females.

While the use of a gun in this situation may or may not have been appropriate (I wasn't there, so I don't know), it sounds like the person who used the gun MAY have been justified in using it for his own self defense. Vines (the survivor) admits to having thrown the first punch, and his dead companion(s) assaulted the shooters with beer bottles prior to the shooting. What did they expect would happen?

HadEnough--sadly, Turquorious Probably DIDN'T think. (or he let the little head do the thinking for the big head. That does NOT absolve him of having STARTED the fight going violent.

Vines admitted they started fight and conitnued on with beer bottle attacks--the ones with guns are innocent

It sounds like a bunch of 8-year old minds that found themselves in adult bodies. What other outcome would you expect.

They were in college - yes. But these were not the future scientists of the world -- but rather the "entertainment" aka football players in captive service to the school.

Reading comprehension is not a strong point for a lot of you is it? It Said Vines sucker punched one man and that his friend hit the other guy with a beer bottle. Those TWO were responsible for this other two kooks to start firing, EVERYONE else that was shot and killed or injured were VICTIMS of the violence that the first four engaged in.

No where in this story does it say that the other party goers were involved!!! Stop making SH&T up!!!!

Those TWO were responsible for this other two kooks to start firing, EVERYONE else that was shot and killed or injured were VICTIMS of the violence that the first four engaged in.

Just so I'm clear, the two "men" who did not use weapons were responsible for the actions of the two "men" who did use weapons and took the lives of three people, only one of which was actually involved in the original altercation? What's next? The person that was driving through a green light was responsible for the injuries to the person who hit them after running a red light? Or better yet, maybe it's the car manufacturers fault, because clearly there should have been more regulations that would have prevented the car from running the red light to begin with.

I can't believe the whole point of this story is being missed. This is clearly a hate crime. All the victims were of African American descent after all. Much more so than the young caucasian boy who was followed home from school in Kansas City and doused in gasoline and lit on fire on his porch by a couple of african american kids "in the name of Trayvon". After all, the victim was not african american, so there is no way that was a hate crime. Where's the outrage? Where's the justice?

Once again reading comprehension is not your strong suit is it? Did you actually read the post or are you going to be obtuse and stupid? I said that ultimately the "four" that were in the fight are responsible. Get it? The first two confront, the second two attack, the first two pull guns and start shooting. Ergo, the 4 young men are responsible!!!!

Stop trying to be cute. It really is ugly on you!! Oh and I will google your said story about this child in Kansas City and if I find out it is a lie, I will make it my business to make sure that I call you out for the liar that you are each and every day!!!

Another proud moment for proponents of rational thought - the misuse of the NRA and the second amendment again - oh darn, ignorant people's agenda is showing - it's their fault for not bothering to educate themselves!!!

Unless 'those who cannot do, teach' holds true, please enlighten us - we are rapt - as to the the connection here between the NRA, the Second Amendment, and these gun-toting, violent thugs.

However, I do give you credit for your second sentence. No doubt the hypocrites and opportunists Jackson and Sharpton will remain mum on this one.

Wow, three misspelled words and no idea what the second amendment is.....and a name like "GED Teacher"

Hilarious

"Innocent people" = Those who sucker punch others, and strike others in the head with bottles. I never knew that, you learn something new everyday!

One question, do you think these cowards really would have stopped punching or head bashing if not shot?

All the racist crap and anti gun crap here are just excuses to hide the real problem. Thugs come with guns to confront dumb thugs, who sucker punch and try the bottle to the head approach to show respect.

1. Lets check for priors on all involved

2. Lets see if the shooters are NRA or even legally own the gun

3. Lets see how long it takes Earlene to make this a racist issue

For those who say "Thug" is a racist term, please stop. That is one sorry excuse.

"Thug" is being used as a substitute for the "n" word. It started with the faux news blogs on the Trayvon Martin case. Now the faux news blogs are CLOSED, aren't they?

earlene: In my vocabulary, "thug" does not equal "the N word". Thug refers to anyone who conducts themselves with a belligerent attitude with no regard for the law or the rights of other people. There are black thugs, sure...but there are also hispanic thugs (of varying skin colors), asian thugs, and white thugs. I regard ALL of them with great disdain without reference to the color of their skin.

HadEnough--agreed on the use of THUG. That said, George Zimerman was NOT, from all I have read, a 'Thug'.

He had legal permission to carry, and he got his gun because he had been attacked by roving dogs in the neighborhood.

Mo, don't you mean dawgs?

^^^lol

earline...Geez!! The word thug has been used since the time of the Mafia wars. It isn't a new word. Where have you been living---under a rock--for the last 50 years? It has nothing to do with the "n" word. There are many white, hispanic, asian, Indian, Arabian thugs out there. Just about every gang out there and there are thousands, have some thug mentality...and I wouldn't put pimps above the thug category.

I have to laugh at all you 'Sheeple" out there talking about the "2nd amendment" and the "Constitutional bill of rights". You actually believe you have "Rights" In this country? You are sadly mistaken! You have "Privileges" Wake up Sheep!!! Our rights got taken away yrs ago. And Please!!! Quit trying to Blame the "Whiteman" For holding you down. The only one holding your ppl down are you! Because 90% of you are all Worthless and Lazy. And that not only applys to Blacks, It applys to Whites, Spanish, Asians, Ect. If half to 2/3 of your ppl had a father in there life with a foot buried up there ass, Then most of these problems would not exist. But we know all to well thats not the case. And Ladys (I use that term very loosely) quit popping out kids like your making brownies and cupcakes. I'm fed up with supporting all you welfare frauds. Frauds = Lazy!! Back to my previous point. I show absolutely no compassion for these 3 pieces of @!$%# that got shot. You put yourself in that situation. DEAL WITH IT!!!

Dey ain't my children.

Luckily, your family has stopped procreating. While you may not worry when your family members leave the house, I do. But, if you don't care about your's, neither will I.

this is the effect of parents not doing thier jobs. If you have a child disipline is one of the main components of raising that child. Instead, due to the "abuse" politics many are afraid to spank a child for misbehaving. The kids are taught that they can do and have what ever they want. These kids are now young adults with a "I don't give a damn" mentality. We have raised a nation full of selfcentered thugs.

Earlene.....you're an idiot, Holder is the worst Attorney General EVER; Tarzan may not be wrapped too tight, but you need to admit that gunplay in the black community is out of control. Are you going to blame the whites for that ?....Obama's been a dismal failure, he has not said ONE WORD since he has been in office about stopping the violence, or more importantly, the out-of-control birth rate among young, African-American women....

Go back to fox. You're too dim to even see the bigotry in your own remarks.

They don't care if it's just their own, it just means one less to rob or shoot at them - they know this as well as white people.

It only becomes a problem if a white guy did it, they can't pass up a chance to assume victim status. That, and Jesse and Al need to keep their faces in the mainstream media so they still look relevant.

Gomer--it might help Jesse and Al if they had a better record of picking who the get righteous over. They automatically assume that in a conflict between black or white, WHITE must ALWAYS be guilty.

Unfortunately, MOST of the time, they assumed wrong.

Earlene done got pissed off. Careful sweetie your ignorance is showing.

Earlene, there is a saying that " For evil to succeed all it takes is for good men to do nothing".

Keep calling the racists out. Anyone with half a brain and an education knows what the code words are and how they are used. The very fact that some of the most hate filled and racists comments have some of the largest up votes should tell you something.

Ignorance knows no bounds and on this board there are a lot of ignorant posters.

I'll speak out. This is a tragedy and an abomination that these young black males decided to get themselves killed. Now all the people that hate blacks will get a little more ammo for their hate cannons.. Do you really know what the funny thing is? I'll tell you. The funny thing is if any one of you hiding behind your keyboard making your jabs at blacks ever saw me in the street, you would have the hair on your balls to come tell me how you really feel.. And I'm only a 5' 9'' 170lb blackman? Why? because like your racist counterparts in the KKK, your a bunch of cowards. Don't worry, I can tell you people out when I see you in person, you guys are the one's kissing the black guys ass and then backstabbing him because you think your better but time and time again have been proven wrong. It's okay, go ahead and hate us. Don't really give a damn, never have and never will..

For the most part I try not to listen to all these crazies and there retard comments because I think most of them are young people thinking its funny to get a rise out of someone, anyone! You can read article of any type on the news and there are people that just make nasty comments for no reason. I've seen where someone was killed in an accident in a nice car and all you hear is they deserved it for having money, who cares and all kinds of rotten things. You are right, people can hide behind their keyboards and say whatever. Is so ignorant! Gladly the majority of people that are don't think like they do. There are hundreds of millions of people that can comment and if you get 40 making bad comments then that not many. I get riled up every time I read any article if I look at the comments. We all try not to look because we know were going to get mad! I personally think that some of these guys go to a party thinking that someone might have a gun so they bring one to defend themselves and thats a horrible way to think. I don't think I would be going to too many parties if that was what I was thinking. Have a small gathering at your house, tell friends not to bring extras. I feel sorry that they all THINK they have to bring guns!

what is "slence"?

If you can't spell silence, you shouldn't comment on this thread...

Immunity, I have read all of the comments on this thread and yours is the most stupid of them all. Cam Newton was a model citizen and student while at AU. I also do not believe that he was at this party or even attending AU when this senseless act took place. As for the comment about the AD and HC, the Auburn City police are the ones handling the investigation because it took place OFF CAMPUS. I think it's time for your mommy to take your computer away before you show us how utterly stupid you really are.

It's the culture. One that values violence and confrontation and killing and bling and stash.

You can blame music, you can blame tv, you can blame guns.

The fact is, someone's selling this to them, and they're buying it.

Why is that?

I'm also a older musician and it has always bothered me to see videos and hear rap that glorifies this hip hop fantasy life.

The community is DOING IT TO THEMSELVES, to their own children! For MONEY!!!

They're destroying the entire black culture in America for money and nobodies saying anything.

Most older black musicians instead of speaking out, pander to the very people to remain relevant.

I grew up playing R&B in black bars all over the US and it never used to be like this.

Jeff, I hope everyone reads your wonderful postings here and really thinks - and hopefully does something.

It makes you miss the "good ole days" when you had guys doing drive by "shoutings". They would drive past and yell things out each other...........boy has that escalated...........now it's drive by "shootings".

The community is DOING IT TO THEMSELVES, to their own children! For MONEY!!!

They're destroying the entire black culture in America for money and nobodies saying anything.

Thank you, Jeff. Too many of us are afraid to speak out against the dissolution of the black community from within.

My parents are 70 and have stories of struggle, but also of triumph gained through hard work, education, and common decency. They raised me and my brother the same exact way. This isn't about race to me really, it's about an attitude that has poisoned our community.

Thank you for your post.

I am NOT responsible for someone else children. I am however responsible for my own and making sure that they grew up to obey the law and take care of themselves. That was my job and that is what I did

I have an idea, go to any "Black " website and you will see where they are sponsoring mentoring programs, they are working hard to try to get at risk children help. You don't know because you don't care. It's more fun to tell lies and score points, than to tell the truth or even to look and try to see what is going on.

Funny thing is that I really don't care for Al or Jessie, but I do know that they give time and attention to helping children that need it. You can only help a child if they are willing and ready to accept it. I also know that they partner with Black sororities and fraternities to mentor youth.

There are so many things that need to come together for this problem (and it is a problem) to be gotten under control.

Fathers need to be in their children's lives , parents need to do just that PARENT, stop trying to be their friend. THAT is NOT your job. Children have to stop having children, they can barely make decisions about what to wear that day, what the heck do they do about a baby. Spend time with your children, stop spending money on the newest MJ shoes or the newest video game. Set that money aside for their future. They are not going to die if they don't have those things, as a matter of fact it will probably save their lives since no one will kill them for the "newest" it thing. Think before you act, remember that they are watching you and if they see you go out into the street screaming and yelling and threatening, that is what they will do when they need to solve a problem.

But if you want to help, there are many organizations that need volunteers and that would be grateful for the help no matter what your race or gender. Be a part of the solution and stop feeding the problem.

Be a part of the solution and stop feeding the problem.

Fathers need to be in their children's lives , parents need to do just that PARENT,

Spend time with your children,

Think before you act, remember that they are watching you

Children have to stop having children, they can barely make decisions about what to wear that day, what the heck do they do about a baby.

And thank you for your post too! We certainly, most definitely have a problem!

I applaud people who can see the common good and the difficult truths that must be faced to achieve it.

Tired Voter-this is by far the best comment on this site! It takes a village!

Jeff...Yes black leaders need to step up, so do all leaders--white, Islamic, Hispanic, Indian etc. Columbine and the Eugene killings were perped by whites. All leaders need to step up to stop the violence among all cultures and ethnicities. That our children are considering killing a viable alternative in any conflict is a problem--a big problem for all of us.

Your very right! Obviously they can't all be stopped no matter the color but people need to TRY anything they can to help curb this! All races are having an issue with there boys thinking they need to carry a gun not only to look cool but they think the others will have one too so they think they need to defend themselves! This is one reason the Zimmerman thing is so bad. Why teach our kids that someone might not like you in there neighborhood so you need a gun to defend yourself? If this kid had a gun, who knows what would have happened. I'm sure many are wanting to carry one now because they don't want to be lying in the street. I wish there was a simple solution, men need to figure out that not everyone is out to get them but how do you do that when they see things like this happen. One thing is to help them rationalize!!! Most people are normal and not going to try and kill you. Stop having these big parties where theres so many people you don't even know half of them. Show these boys of all colors that there are other ways to deal with issues besides guns! You don't have to fight or shoot. Who is keeping score? When your grown and have kids and your working and hanging with your family, who cares! Thats whats important! The people that really matter!!! Family!

Well, when you're at a party that has people with names like "Turquorius," chances are someone is carrying a gun.

Just because you 'can' own a gun doesn't mean you have to.I myself will not buy a gun because I have a bad temper and know I'll eventually end up in a bad situation.

It was off-campus

You guys have no clue, unless your're joking MR.

Yes. That last comment did it. You guys have no clue. So do some dont. We are animals, clever ones at that. People love pointing the finger at the other guy. Im sure yall skeletons in your closet. You have done plenty...you just havent been caught...Bub.