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U.S. Customs And Border Protecti / AP
This undated photo provided by U.S. Customs and Border Protection shows an unmanned drone used to patrol the U.S.-Canadian border. The planes, which are based out of North Dakota, venture as far as Eastern Washington on their patrols.
Americans overwhelmingly support the use of drones for patrolling U.S. borders, tracking down criminals and aiding search-and-rescue missions, but they don’t want the unmanned craft used to issue speeding tickets, according to a poll.
The Monmouth University Polling Institute of New Jersey said it tested the four scenarios in anticipation of a national push that, according to estimates from the Federal Aviation Administration, could see up to 30,000 drones patrolling U.S. skies within a decade.
The FAA, under orders from Congress in a bill signed into law Feb. 14 by President Barack Obama, is expediting the expansion of domestic drone use.
And that’s OK with most Americans, the poll found.
“Americans clearly support using drone technology in special circumstances, but they are a bit leery of more routine use by local law enforcement agencies,” Patrick Murray, director of the Monmouth University Polling Institute, said in a statement.
The FAA issued 61 drone authorizations between November 2006 and June 30, 2011, including 13 for local police agencies and one for a state police agency. About 20 went to colleges and universities and others went to federal agencies.
Survey: World's opinion of US, Obama slips
The Department of Homeland Security, through the Federal Emergency Management Agency, in 2012 offered about $830 million in grants to states and cities for emergency preparedness. Drones could be funded under several of its programs.
The Monmouth University poll of 1,708 people called June 4-6 has a margin of error of 2.4 percent, the Institute said. Its chief findings:
- More than half of Americans, 56 percent, had read “some” or a “great deal” about the U.S. military use of drones. The rest, about 44 percent, read “just a little or none at all.”
- About two out of three Americans, or 67 percent, oppose the use of drones to issue speeding tickets. About 23 percent support it.
- 64 percent support the use of drones to control illegal immigration on the nation’s borders.
- 80 percent support the use of drones to help with search and rescue missions.
- 67 percent support the use of drones to track down runaway criminals.
- 64 percent are “very concerned” or “somewhat concerned” about their privacy if U.S. law enforcement uses drones with high-tech cameras.
The poll was released around the same time the Pew Research Center's Global Attitudes Project showed global confidence in and attitudes toward the United States by 21 countries slipped since the beginning of President Barack Obama's presidency, in large part for the U.S. military use of drones targeting extremists in countries such as Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia.
More content from msnbc.com and NBC News:
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64 percent are “very concerned” or “somewhat concerned” about their privacy if U.S. law enforcement uses drones with high-tech cameras.
Privacy is a major concern
What next?
Let focus on our government performing there jobs effectively.
And reduce fed gov spending
Camera's are everywhere. I really don't see it becomes different if it's on a drone or a cop car dash, or on a traffic light pole. I guess we should consult the Pakistani and Afghan people for their take and guidance on the matter. They will work fine for large area surveillance/search activity but I don't see them as being cost effective for day-to-day law enforcement on any kind of a large scale implementation. But I can see a few applications in law enforcement where they may actually be worth their costs but you'll have to ask the individual taxpayers responsible to gauge their response.
Because there are not cameras in my backyard now? I don't need drones flying over my neighborhood. And they're a lot more cost-effective than police helicopters. The reason they aren't always buzzing overhead is that it would be prohibitively expensive.
Ok, so say you're alright with drones now. What if laws are passed that seem increasingly invasive and totalitarian? The drone is just a tool. And will be used to enforce them.
I don't really want to ask Pakistanis and Afghans their take because 1) the circumstances are different and I question the relevance, and 2) i bet it would be easy to predict the overwhelming sentiment.
Drones are fine. I thought helicopters and planes were used to catch speeders decades ago. Granted, on a small basis.
I don't think the American people wouldn't mind them patrolling the borders, but a lot of these drones are being use to measure the flatulence of bovines, with an eye toward limiting bovine emissions. The actual intent is for some unelected bureaucrat to determine if the emissions will warrant fining farmers for excesses.
Oo Oo, I know, let's fly the drones over DC and have us ordinary citizens at the controls. Then, when one of the f'ups f'up, we can zap their azzes.
In the meantime, anyone who thinks these things will be used nicely by the people who so care about you, let me tell you.... You're delusional. I'd love to think they'll use them for the right reason, especially on the border, but what I've seen happening to this country over the past decade, tells me the exact oppposite.
They passed NDAA overwhelmingly, as in both parties, as well as the expatriation act. In case you aren't aware, the expat act answers ANY question as to whether NDAA can be used on citizens. THEY make the call on whether you're deemed a terrorist, and if they decide you are, they strip you of your citizenship with expat. If you're not aware of this, you need to go looking into all the executive orders that have gone down recently, like within the last six months......you might want to have a beer or two handy, because it's as bad as the worst science fiction movie you've ever seen along this genre'....except it's for real.
And remember, it's legal for THEM to commit insider trading. Of course, we still have those who still believe if you're a good little law abiding citizen, you have nothing to worry about. Unfortunately, that only applies to five year olds who think they live in Disney Land.
And don't forget this.... even if you ARE a good little five year old, your neighbor might not be. If they decide to go after them, YOU are highly likely to become collateral damage. What, did you think they only mess up in war zones? Describe war zone....
This is the technology they let us know about.
Think of the technology you don't know about.!!
I got a speeding ticket and the Highway Patrol said we got you with the spotter plane. I looked up in the clear blue sky and said what plane?? He just smiled and said sign here. It was a speed trap tool used by a FL city after reviewing AAA.
Use the Drones but I want a picture of my speedometer and my face pickin a booger to be a valid law enforcement tool........I just hope they don't fire a hellfire missle at me when I give it the bird.
They are going to "monitor" the public one way or the other if that is their intent. Drones, or manned aircraft, or satellites, it really doesn't matter to them. Hell, satellites are spying on nude backyard sunbathers today, for crying out loud. Don't get me wrong, I don't like this idea of UAV's either, but if you really have a problem with this, you need to direct your anger and efforts to a dozen other surveillance activities before you worry about this.
does anyone read and/or understand the US constitution? if we dont force the government to abide by its contractual obligations and limitations then why even have the US constitution? jut let the government do whatever it wants and we can be good little bees -oh wait, that already happens.
if you think we need drones to keep us domestically safe then you have become a slave, US american weapons of war have no place being used against US citizens, per the US constitution. there is no argument to this, its strictly forbidden but its not like the government has not done this before, with the people's blessing.
Drones are fine by me ... clay pigeons than can maneuver.
If 64 % are concerned with the operation of drones over the US then a majority of the people are not in favor of their use. Border use I can see, but only if they are armed and can do something to stop the invasion. Other wise leave them in the combat environment. They should not be used over US cities. You are asking for trouble if that happens. I am not willing to give up my freedoms for government intrusion.
wow, wtf? i never thought i would see the world the way it is but here it is anyway in my life time. America spying on its own people now. Dont really think alot of people understand whats going on but go back to the start, which is sept 10, 2001, not the 11th. on the 10th rumfields was brought before a comettee to acount for 2.3 trilion dollars and guess what happened the next day, the exact spot the pentagon kept their money records was hit by a plane that isn't even shown on camera, america you better wake up and do it quick, our government is slowly taking our rights away and we are letting them. Stop listening to the news and research things on your own and you will see i am right. just type in Rumsfield 2.3 trilion dollars and see waht you get the day before 911
Uncle Sam is watching you.
30,000 drones, that's 600 per state on average! One for every 12,000 citizens! Soon, half of the population will be observing the other half as a job. What country have we become?
U know who signed the bill, probably to say it would increase employment. @ $4.5m ea. cost to the taxpayer for $1.35 Trillion and us already at $14 trillion in debt.
Drones flying all over the place. Another assault on our liberties.
We should be protesting, but it won't happen. Most people are just complacent fools, who are just happy to be able to buy as much crap as possible.
I might protest, Stephanie, but I am too afraid of the drones seeing me do it.
This is a direct result of a bloated homeland security budget. $59 billion for 2012. The entire Russian military budget is only $70 billion this year! For just over that amount, they are fielding a military nearly the same size as ours and a strategic nuclear force that can reduce everyone of us to ash.
Our Military budget is over $700 billion! 10x the amount of the total Russian military budget. 8x the Chinese military budget.
Do we really need to increase the 'Defense' budget by 7% to make defense contractors happy? More than double the rate of inflation? The same country that has more people in prison than any other country.
You are going to get all the drones that Homeland Security wants. And you have nothing to say about it.
Get your head out of the sand and realize that you have lost that little freedom that was left and Homeland Security and their buddies will make sure that you will never get it back.
Orson Wells 1984 is on your door step and there is nothing about that you can do to stop it.
evergrien:
The EEA has not passed yet. I do expect it will, though, it's simply a sister to the NDAA, and while the bill wording itself seems simple, making tiny changes to the existing terminology of existing US statutes, I did get apprehensive once I'd gone and researched all the statutes the EEA would make changes to.
Note also the total media blackout that's been taking place on this--the news channels and media have absolutely refused to run stories on this, even when protestors gathered outside their congressperson's offices in Feb to protest the law. (Also note the passage of HR347, which now prohibits citizens from carrying out civil protests on any 'restricted building or grounds')The EEA has similarly slipped under the news radar, and the only place you can find mentions are fringe blogs and alternate media.
For anyone reading this who has no idea what we're talking about, the NDAA and the EEA together impose penalties from indefinite detention in military prison to having your citizenship stripped and being incarcerated indefinitely in a military prison as an 'illegal terrorist' if you are suspected of any of the following (note I say 'suspected'; there needs to be an interrogation but no trial or conviction is necessary prior to commencing detention.)
Alternative media
Anarchist extremism
Animal rights extremism
Anti-abortion extremism
Anti-immigration extremism
Anti-technology extremism
Aryan prison gangs
Black bloc
Black nationalism
Black power
Black separatism
Christian Identity movement
Cuban independence extremism
Decentralized terror movement
Denial-of-service attacks
Direct action (including lawful acts of civil disobedience)
Environmental extremism
Ethnic extremism
Extremist groups
Green anarchism
Hacktivism (technology-enabled social/political activism)
Hate groups
Jewish extremism
Leaderless resistance
Left-wing extremism
Lone terrorists
Mexican separatists
Militia Movements (including conspiracy theorists)
Neo-Nazis
Patriot Movement
Phineas Priesthood
Primary targeting(directly supporting/funding terrorists)
Puerto Rican independence extremists
Radical Norse mysticism practitioners
Racialists
Right-wing extremists
Single-issue/multiple issue extremist groups
Skinheads whose ‘dress may include shaved head/short hair, jeans, thin suspenders, combat boots or Doc Martens and a bomber jacket’
Sovereign citizen movement
Tax resistance movement
Violent anti-war extremism
Violent religious sects (includes those who stockpile food and weapons)
White Nationalists
White Power advocates
White Supremacists
Land of the FREE oh wait no land of the watched and the home of the Scared. Please stop letting the Republicans take away our freedoms under the guise of protection. You all are fools. I would rather DIE from a terrorist attack than live under the view of the top Controlling our masses. Fricken cowards letting this take over our Nation.
Here's one guy who is NOT for the domestic use of drones for ANY reason other then when a missing person needs to be found.
Colleges are using drones now? And people wonder why tuition rates are skyrocketing. Thank the federal government for creating yet another bubble with federal student loans.
The US government cannot be trusted with such a tool. Simply hand out machine guns to angry drunks.
I may not know how to launch drones, but more importantly I DO know how to bring them down.
No surprise this idea comes about under the Obama Admininstration. What next, prison camps for anyone who speaks out against El Presidente, just like Woodrow Wilson did?
I cannot wait to see the streets cleaned up along with any and all crime once we get all 30,000 of these baby's flying over the land night and day!! I cannot wait until they are peering thru peoples rooftops and videotaping what is going on inside their house without the occupants even knowing that it is happening to them! I cannot wait for the 3 million extra prisons to be built to house the miscreants that are among us daily that we don't know are miscreantssimply because we have not had the ability to use sophisticated military grade surveillance equipment to gather evidence to prove this until now!!
It is heart warming to know that thiis technology will be used fairly against ALL citizens of the US so each and every one who is investigated will have their day in court, much like it is now! There is no bias or skulduggery when it comes to law enforcement or the judicial system now so we can expect it to carry forward and this will be the case when we are putting the final piece into place of the utopia that will be a crime and drug free country where there is no intermingling of races and everyone will get free puppies of their choice daily!!! Our founding fathers had every bit of this in mind when this country was founded and they are smiling down on us from heaven (which is only going to be one step above the United States) right now!!!!
there should be a law to block them from flying over private property or looking in without due cause. allowing them freedom to use the drones however they see fit would be disastrous since they already show a lack of self control regarding privacy. personally they should be treated as target practice when they trespass(via model rocket or home built net trap/jamming drone whatever works) either way if it flys over my home it's mine if i catch it.
Everyday Big Brother is getting bigger.
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
1984/2012.
The average poster here seems in dire need of a sanity test. The question was about catching speeders. Somehow, the loonies and paranoids took over the assylum, and have flooded the stream with all the imaginary threats they can imagine.
This says it was a poll. Nobody asked me!!!!!! I am against the use of any DRONES over USA or any of our territories!
Calmly, proudly, imagining themselves to be of reason and sense, the little worker bee echoes the government propaganda, and what is worse, what is truly dangerous is that they believe themselves.
We should always be able to face our accuser.
Unless they want to start hauling the drones into court, they need to stay out of our domestic air space.
So speeding is so bad in the US we now need 30,000 drones to issue ticket? Are you that gullible?
What do you think they will use all those drones for once no one speeds?
And why does "Homeland Security" sound like something Hitler would have thought up?
Remember, information is power. Drones, at their most basic function, are information gatherers. Governments that take power rarely relinquish it. These devices serve no justifiable function over civilian areas outside of very narrow, very specific tasks (search and rescue of stranded hikers, fugitive capture, etc). Any other use of these devices, to my way of thinking, is a violation of the 4th amendment-- an unreasonable search of my property (albeit from above, but my backyard is still my property, no?). I am not unreasonably fearful of these devices, but I think very strict checks and balances need to be levied against them, or I will fear what follows. These are dangerous times and people need to be wide awake.
I live under a major airports flight path, what do I care if there are a couple more things buzzing up in the sky? You people need to calm down.
Thank you gop and some dems.. You have brilliantly let the " brilliant" mind of The Bush Man J. R. lead us down a path a ROAD if you will, to a hill a slippery hill or SLOPE some may say. From warrant-less searches and seizure's to spying on citizens of this country this formerly great country will now be inundated with the ahh inspiring technology we as a country use on our ENEMIES. ? WTF right? Wrong.
Because your wrong I will take the initiative to tell you why. To inform you. It is because votes matter. Not votes on a poll mind you but the kind being disenfranchised right now. We as a nation allowed this step to be taken our rights to be subverted by the decision or lack there of in the two " elections" of a plant. ; ]
I write " elections" because hanging Chad's and a court decision are hardly an election. BUT! And that is your wife's very BIG but with a power money hungry WAR mongering party on the right and do nothings to stand up for us on the left, is it really a surprise or hard truth that technology used on the countries, the enemies of this former great nation of America are to be used on its citizens instead.? Instead of Pakistan where they belong? Instead of Afghanistan where they belong? etc./?
It is already being done mind you in limited try outs.
Hmm.
Cheers
Its sad how many people dont value theyre freedom.Drones.NDAA.Obama has more executive powers. Police state.
People need to stop watching american idol and get up to speed about all the changes going on around you and the freedoms you are losing.
mowdy, hurry....your meds are in the medicine cabinet in the bathroom!
I don't know what planet someone was on when they quoted $4.5 mil a piece, I know for a fact that the Military grade drones are approximately $25-$35 mil / EACH. So I can assure you that a domestic drone will at LEAST be $15-$20 mil.. I'm sure they're just throwing out a low number, such as $4.5 mil to make the sell, then find a way to justify the increase after the fact or hit the tax payers somewhere else and rob peter to pay paul. Its no secret that it happens with everything else the Government does, every single day.. 30,000? Is insanity.. 300 drones to monitor the public is insane... I can't even fathom 30,000.. I'll never pee behind a trash bin again.
Everybody seems focused on government use of drones, but how many realize that the recent bill opened the door for private drone use too? I frankly worry more about these things in private hands with the sole intent of using them to help separate you from your money. In fact the private sector does far more "spying" on Americans than the government. Usually, the government subpoenas to get the information from them. Ask yourself why your phone company needs to store your GPS data? Maybe it has some real time benefits, but why keep a location file on you? They do. And with credit cards, they store all your purchase information and where and when you used it. Private companies run stop light cameras, toll roads, etc. If you have a toll transponder a lot of information about where you were and when is nicely stored away. Your ISP knows where you surf. Your cable or satellite company records what you watch, and there are plenty of other little things that get associated with you. Think about all these little bits of data and why some private interest might find them valuable. It doesn't take a genius to see the potential. Many companies starting keeping these databases before they even knew what they would use it for, but these guys know that knowledge is valuable.
A lot of this is done for "marketing purposes", but most Americans can be tracked with remarkable accuracy for a very large part of their lives. This data may reside in different databases, but how do you know what gets shared with other businesses? The companies "own" these data files on you and nothing keeps them from potentially selling it or otherwise somehow abusing it. They are already talking about electronic billboards on the highway being target specifically for you as your transponder gets read as you come into view. All you would need to do is link some databases together and real time in many urban environments they could probably identify at least 60% of the population and where you are and probably predict where you are going. These electronic "breadcrumbs" you leave all over the place are being collected by businesses, not the government.
The thing is that with governments, they have laws to follow and we as voters have some impact of those laws. Business on the other hand pretty much has a free hand as to what they want to do with this information. I have little concerns about the Federal government's use of these domestically. Local governments would be more likely to abuse them and private business would be the most likely to abuse them. The databases of private companies is far more likely to be compromised. Already when businesses are hiring people, many do very extensive background checks. Companies were trying to get access to potential employee's social networking accounts. All these things give little clues about you and those of us who are law abiding citizens have much more to worry about from private business interests than from the government.
As for who was pushing for this expanded use, it is wrong to characterize it as Obama. Obama has pushed for more drone use abroad in the terrorism battle and sees the benefit of their use on the borders, But I don't believe he is pushing this new expansion. The Federal government already had the ability to use these. In fact it was mostly GOP corporate stooges that were behind this recent bill. The Federal government has been using these for a long time here in the US. A variety of agencies have been using them and we've been patrolling the borders with them for quite a while now. Privacy concerns are real, but don't just fear the government, others have been systematically invading your privacy for a long time already and this will be one more data source for them.
- Stephen Stills
If you let any drones here, our freedom is over.
By headlining this article with speeding ticket news, the Pentagon is easing drones into our lives in a seemingly innocuous fashion.
Let us start with the 4th Amendment to the Constitution. One of the 10 in the Bill of Rights:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
It would be a violation of the 4th amendement for law enforcement to use drones to look down into private back yards, swimming pools, etc or for that matter into the side windows of your house if these locations are not visible from a public street or other public view. It doesn't matter if you are Hanibal Lectur and you just killed someone in your fully enclosed back yard, the police can't go flying a drone over it just to make sure no one is doing this. The big abuses will be in drug cases - people growing pot or doing drugs in the privacy of their enclosed yard or whatever.
This is a very bad idea - using drones in law enforcement work inside the US. Sure, it may catch a few more criminals but it will violate the 4th Amendment many thousands (millions!) of times for every criminal caught.
Just what we all need. The federal government and the fuzz with drones. The border i can see but cops? Never! They meddle and snoop in every ones business enough now. How many more years till no one has any privacy left? We all live under the illusion of freedom now. They just keep taking and won't stop until all sheep are in line behind the Judas goat.
People are just like cattle. All you have to do to herd them is scare them. Homeland because Motherland was already taken. Moo Moo
NotFooled,
Cattle, Moo Moo ?
Nope........its Sheeples, Baaaa Baaaa
However, how many of these people are putting all their personal details up on Facebook?
People are pretty silly
Wakehead,
Facebook? Not really I prefer News Vine better character (many times) and lots of characters (mostly in a good way).
@1NewDay
I was thinking that exact same thing. The reason it passed overwhelmingly is that the lobbiests lobbied for it! I am much more concerned how the private sector will use this technology, than the gov.
I don't have a problem with drones being used to catch speeders or cameras on the traffic lights to catch the folks who constantly speed up to run red lights. They are dangerous and if drones are the answer go for it.
Personally I think the drones should be armed and just nuke the speeders and red-light runners. Maybe then we'll get some respect for our traffic laws. But that's just me. I was all for nuking Iran in '79. Sure would have saved a lot of trouble, but nooooooo, that was considered too radical. Bet you feel different now don't you?
When the German SS first started, they were called the 'Saal-Schutz'--Home Protection.
Once the Nazi party took over and they gained power they were then called 'Schutz-Staffen'--Protection Corps.
Home Protection. Homeland Security.
Homeland Security was started in 2002 in the wake of -11 with a budget of $49million. Today, their budget is quoted at between $59 billion-$98 billion, difficult to accurately pinpoint because transparency isn't in DHS's vocabulary.
I don't support drones for any reason.
Unmanned war planes will be followed by unmanned tanks and unmanned war ships. It will be followed by increasing intellgent AI so only a few people would need to enter a few commands and have an army of clones at their disposal
now all you need is for extremist to gain control of this nation and they can power an onslaught of military power by placing it in the hands of just a few.
Skip Nich -
Apparently you haven't done much driving in foreign countries, I would confidently say that people in this country abide by the driving laws a lot more strictly than 99% of the other countries I've been to. I feel much more safe driving here than anywhere else. Drones for traffic here in America is ridiculous. Cops can't do their intended job anymore? Well, I say if Drones are taking over the airways to issue citations that we cut the law enforcement budget by 75% and start the layoffs. What will the highway patrol, state troopers and sherriffs be left to do? Nothing, which will lead to even more corrupt cops because of their idle hands. THe whole idea is horrible, these Drones were never intended (to my knowledge, but who knows) for domestic use, they were designed and built for military surviellance.
The first time you signed onto Face Book you started being watch by the government. With drones deployed by civil agencies to keep track of the goings on concerning the citizens of this country is even more intrusive. These drones are equipped with the highest available technology such as hi-tek cameras that can determine the color of your eyes, radio receivers that can intercept any signal sent and more devices. With this in mind you are not secure in your home, car, park or anyplace at anytime of the day or night, 24/7. If you think Google Earth is amazing the cameras on these drones make Google Earth seem like toys and the transceivers on board drones are the best technology that can be bought or given away through Federal grants.
This is definitely a violation of the Constitution and everything the American Revolution was fought for. Orwellian days are here and just imagine if the Republicans get their hands on them. Keep in mind they brought us Patriot Act I & II with more to come. Time to head back to the reservation where no one cares and out of sight out of mind mentality. Even then one of the Intelligence Agencies will always be checking up on the Reservations to see if they are up to another Wounded Knee.
Drones are fine if you have a direct use for their deployment. Chase a suspect, patrol the border, search and rescue, etc.
But hell no they should never be used for fishing expeditions to catch ordinary citizens in misdemeanors. When people see drones flying over their neighborhood they will get real suspicious, real fast. It doesn't matter what they are used for, if people feel that the possibility exists that they are being spied on, they will react poorly. Use them judiciously or not at all!
If drones are used inside US for 'crowd-control', instead of SWAT teams;US marshals -have a search warrant,order by a legitimate court for said usage- then it is fine. Using drones for spotting flood areas,forest fires are legitimate means of obtaining information to be relayed to appropriate personnel. There has to be congressional oversight when it comes to airlanes- in case of an air disaster caused by drone/plane collision- malfunction (mechanical failure),maritime duties.But a drone over your own backyard- 'peeping drones' is a big no-no.
Thank goodness law enforcement only ever uses the tools at their disposal for sanctioned reasons.
Like Tasers or guns that result in deaths oh the good ol boys
joeyfromcali...
You are a tool!! You would rather "die from a terrorist attack than live under the view of the top Controlling our masses"? Who is controlling our masses? You are just another example of a spineless @!$%#!
The only terrorist i see is the government.All these wars just create more people who hate us.
KBR was asking for bids by any contractor who could build multiple self contained prisons capable of holding more than two thousand people. open your eyes,the government is preparing for the breakdown of society.
Those drones can be used to get rid of people,spy on you.
If you dont beleave me your in denial.If the government was so trustworthy congress would have term limits,eric holder would step down for the good of the country.We wouldnt be fighting wars on the other side of the world.Our military wouldnt be so large and we would close overseas bases.Two nuclear class submarines could destroy the planet from two docks,one in Maine and one in Alaska.We dont need to be the worlds police.
Just remember the bay of tonkin,the false reasons given to get into the vietnam war.Or how about those mass weapons of destruction?all the talk about chemical weapons in Iraq,oh they didnt mention we gave the training and supplys to get them going with chemical and biological weapons.The 911 hijackers were mostly Saudis,so attack Afganistan?Get ready for the Iran war,we have been sending ships and getting ready for it.Iran cause a national security problem?The resulting oil spikes well cause massive problems here,mabe martial law.Oh we have drones to control people with.
Its about the only way i see Obama staying in office,so this could happen before the elections.He cant run on his record.hey dont be so trusting.
Actually, realize that every comment placed on here and who you all are, plus your demographics, are being recorded into a database and tracked for future reference. True. I'm one of the many enjoying watching and tracking you all... so be careful little hands what you write, be careful little mouths what you say, be careful little feet where you go, be careful little hearts what you do...
The use of these unmanned drones will come to a screeching halt when one brings down a commercial airliner, there's already been one close call that I know of. They do malfunction and crash on occasion as is regularly reported in the middle east where the US military use them all the time. Imagine one hitting your house, your car on the highway or plowing into a crowded busy street full of shoppers. Even a small one falling out of the sky could kill someone. There are strict rules on the use of remote controlled aircraft for very good reasons, and that's just for toys.
Big brother inching his way slowly into Americana. There are pros and cons to it. One day we will suddenly realize that there is no way to back out even if the program became Frankensteinish.
On the brighter side we already have a trained populace of future drone operators. All those video game playing teens.
This is Big Brother Gone too Far,30,000 drones,talk about invasion of Privacy...
I'm leaving this country,Land of the Free,Give me a Break...
As the saying goes, "Don't let the door hit ya........"
I'm with dannyboy, this country is going to hell in a hand basket as far as our "freedoms" go. I certainly don't want some drone issuing me a speeding ticket or spying on me in my damn back yard. We are letting go of the rights, freedoms, and the liberty that made this country great in the first place. It's shameful.
All in the name of fear. I give up, the terrorists have already won. They have succeeded at changing America by instilling fear in the general population. What's worse, very few people actually have the analytical thinking to see this. :-/
They havent instilled fear in the general population because the general population does not have a clue. The government is creating the "fear" just like chicken little. Im more worried about whats going on with them than the terrorists. Im trying to figure out why we even pay them to screw us.
You know Danny boy may be right. Lets see $1 USA equals $10 Mexico or Panama? Hum $100,000 equals
1 million. You can buy allot of freedom with 1 million.
"I'm leaving this country"
Where are you going to go? Europe is even worse.
I live in Thailand most of the time,150 bucks a month rent,$1.10 a beer in a bar mind you, and you know the rest of the story...
This is in Pattaya,Thailand
BYE!!!
Let's see . . .
Drones to nab speeders.
Cameras to enforce red lights.
Audio surveillance that can hear through walls.
Cell phones that can give your location to within 20-feet or so.
Big Brother just got here a little later than was predicted.
But if you film a cop, you get arrested.
Oh man! I'd love to light off a Hellfire missle at the next person I see exceeding the speed limit by 30 mph or so! (Or maybe the next person filming a cop).
KIDDING!
wow, wtf? i never thought i would see the world the way it is but here it is anyway in my life time. America spying on its own people now. Dont really think alot of people understand whats going on but go back to the start, which is sept 10, 2001, not the 11th. on the 10th rumfields was brought before a comettee to acount for 2.3 trilion dollars and guess what happened the next day, the exact spot the pentagon kept their money records was hit by a plane that isn't even shown on camera, america you better wake up and do it quick, our government is slowly taking our rights away and we are letting them. Stop listening to the news and research things on your own and you will see i am right. just type in Rumsfield 2.3 trilion dollars and see waht you get the day before 911
Yup fearful suburbanites that are losing the boats. willing to sell out their neighbor to keep up their image. sounds like the good Jews before Hitler decided there was none. Even worse is these folks think they are on the right side of it all. Yeah lets vote Romney in and speed it up the process. Dumb AZZ idiots.
Interesting how neocons like you support the government spying on civilians but get your panties in a bunch when they turn the tables. Judging by your previous commen I don't think you're entirely joking.
When the NAZIs no longer had need for their willing little worker bees, they converted them via paintbrush into traitors and dumped them in the trash. So many little willing worker bees in the US that the fascist states of America will probably have a good run before they are destroyed.
Oh come on now, you don't think Law Enforcement would abuse the priviledge of using drones do you?
Attention K-Mart Shopper, you have crossed into a forbidden isle. Missile launch imminent....
no we are not okay with tyranny and no we do not want to be treated as enemies of the state. and when you fear your own government there is a problem with the system..
30,000 drones estimated, really. Talk about the 'eye in the sky' looking down on you! Soon they'll know how many times you go potty per day... maybe they already do!
In my area they've implemented a device that can pinpoint the location where a gunshot went off- they can even use this to track where the suspect is and deploy law enforcement. While a good thing in terms of eliminating crime, devices like this are being studied for other uses. Maybe next 4th of July they can catch you popping fireworks where it's illegal in city limits...
"Soon they'll know how many times you go potty per day"
They can just monitor peoples twitter accounts for that information.
I fear the republican party period
Dems have taken the patriot act to new heights. The government sure is afraid.The most technical thing to go against the government well be torches,ropes and pitchforks. Evil bastards have left us with 16 trillion in debt and fearing arabs living in anouther century on a different part of the earth.
They can already track you if you have a cell phone and it is turned on.
I fear this whole government, period! Dem, Repub, and all the other mega rich power freaks.
We are all in deep trouble. They have already divided us, which has made us weaker, so it will make it easier for them to control us.
Now if they'd use those Hellfire missiles on the left lane hogging slugs.......
Hellfires can't lock on to a target going less than 35 MPH.
I'd prefer the drones monitor mountian highways to eliminate vehicles holding up 3 or more vehicles but refusing to pull over. Hell Fire definately won't work on those guys, maybe 225 kg will do.
when i look at my government and see corruption and lies coming out of washington d.c. and when i see homeland security being used on my own fellow citizens and when i fear my own police departments and government there is a problem. our government does not have to treat us all as criminals. i no longer trust my government or police in this nation and have not for about 10 years. i have realized that neither are out for what is right and honest anymore.. maybe government should clean up their own crimes before flying 30,000 drones over cities in the usa. this used to be a free nation of rights for everyone. that is no longer the case. even good hard working people will be a victim of the government..
wow, wtf? i never thought i would see the world the way it is but here it is anyway in my life time. America spying on its own people now. Dont really think alot of people understand whats going on but go back to the start, which is sept 10, 2001, not the 11th. on the 10th rumfields was brought before a comettee to acount for 2.3 trilion dollars and guess what happened the next day, the exact spot the pentagon kept their money records was hit by a plane that isn't even shown on camera, america you better wake up and do it quick, our government is slowly taking our rights away and we are letting them. Stop listening to the news and research things on your own and you will see i am right. just type in Rumsfield 2.3 trilion dollars and see waht you get the day before 911
And we thought Mexico was bad Humm maybe we should look at our own Government.
If nothing has been done by now What Happen what makes you think something can be done about it now? It won't be until guns are pointing in peoples faces before they acknowledge what is truly going down. Read Jonathan's Reids post below........case closed.
Better police.
For a better Police State.
Here's how to defeat all the surveillance that threatens to catch you doing something illegal....DON"T BREAK THE LAW!
Don't speed, don't run red lights, don't plan crimes that the cops can hear through walls, and don't complain when the rescue team can't pinpoint your location because the GPS on your cell phone is for crap.
Anyone that thinks improvements in law enforcement are Big Brother and too invasive are either MORONS or have something to hide.
But some laws are meant to be broken... like drug laws. So un-fun and useless!
And what happens when the laws are changed to something you disagree with? Sorry, I don't buy into the whole slippery slope, flawed logic argument of, "If you have nothing to hide, then you wouldn't care about drones." There is a basic, fundamental right to privacy.
You go ahead and choose to be asleep at the switch as the Constitution is slowly and steadily eroded, but I won't.
Drug users suck.
Said like a true Autocrat. Lets not forget that our founding fathers were criminals. They all committed treason, John Hancock was a smuggler, Ben Franklin used to frequent prostitutes, many of them smoked pot and drank to excess. Also the average American today commits 3 felonies everyday. So in all likelihood Jonathan Reid, you in fact are a criminal. I know, lets beef up enforcement so you can get tossed into jail. It'd be interesting to hear your tune then. :)
Here's the link for the Wall Street Journal Article on you committing 3 felonies a day and there is also a book about it in case you wanted a source.
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842.html
Hey Jonathan, did you know forty thousand new laws were passed last year??
Hey Johnathan, I may not be breaking the law, but I certainly don't want some smuck at the DOD knowing the sexual escapades my girlfriend and I are going to get into tonight.
I don't need them listing through walls or on my phone, when I'm discussing my personal PROTECTED OPINION OF GOVERNMENT!
It's called PRIVACY for a reason. Most law abiding citizens still want it and still know what it used to be like.
Maybe you want a see through wall device looking at you in the shower while you masturbate because they are looking for a criminal in the area? I for one don't!
zippercat... why so square? Allergic to fun?
Johnathan Reid..you Sir are an As*hole. Obviously you are a good little nazi that does everything to obey the lawe and i'm betting that you would also have been the first to turn in Anne Franks family wouldnt you?
"zippercat... why so square? Allergic to fun?"
No, Zippercat just doesn't want to throw his life away.
u r dumb. u will be the first one to cry when u have no rights left.
wow, wtf? i never thought i would see the world the way it is but here it is anyway in my life time. America spying on its own people now. Dont really think alot of people understand whats going on but go back to the start, which is sept 10, 2001, not the 11th. on the 10th rumfields was brought before a comettee to acount for 2.3 trilion dollars and guess what happened the next day, the exact spot the pentagon kept their money records was hit by a plane that isn't even shown on camera, america you better wake up and do it quick, our government is slowly taking our rights away and we are letting them. Stop listening to the news and research things on your own and you will see i am right. just type in Rumsfield 2.3 trilion dollars and see waht you get the day before 911
"Paranoia runs deep - into your soul it will creep".
What you're referring to is the Xaver 800 Through Wall Imaging System. Developed at MIT for the military, partially funded by Homeland Security. Do a google search.
Then what happens when the things you do normally suddenly become illegal? See my post above at 1.21. Then come back.
Now, under those definitions of terrorism, I am guilty.
I have a weapons stockpile (sword collection)
I have more than 7 days worth of food in my house (food stockpile)
I am a member of a violent religious sect (all religions espouse violence against some marginalized portion of society)
I do know some Odinists who are listed right there under Norse mysticism practitioners (because of course Odinists are blowing up buildngs right and left 'In the Name of the AllFather Odin!')
I'm an animal rights activist and am active in my local municipality's anti-animal cruelty task force,
I have directly supported terrorists (by donating money to the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, who have been labeled terrorists by Japan and a few other countries in the world who still practice whaling despite a UN moratorium on whaling)
I frequent 'alternative media' sites like Huffington Post to get differing opinions on current news because differing opinions help me form a complete picture--and because they are the only news agencies running stories on the NDAA and the EEA and HR347.
Now, how many of these are you guilty of?
Yes what about the freedom to do what you want? frikin sad how many people here dont value theyre own freedom and liberty.
Amanda-2017567...You are going straight to Gitmo for your crimes against the government! How DARE you educate yourself and DARE to protect the weak!!
I welcome the use of drones to catch speeders because I don't speed....
You never speed? Riiiiight.....
Sorry Rob,
I never speed. I can't afford the increase on my auto insurance premiums.........(if you planned ahead you'd never be late and be forced to speed.....)
I speed. And I want my freedom to speed. If everyone went double the speed, roads would be safer, because there would be half the cars on the road.
You're breaking the law......just like any other criminal.....
So are you luke.
What law am I breaking?
I dunno but I'm sure with enough surveillance we can find out.
“Show me the man, and I will find you the crime.” -Lavrentiy Beria, Stalin's head of the Secret Police.
Hey Luke, I just caught your name.... good one.
George, thanks for the great laugh, I needed that.
sillybilly,
ROFLMAO!!!!
Typical.........
I already posted it once in this thread luke but I will post it again for you since you seem to think you are completely innocent.
online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842.html
The average American commits 3 felonies everyday. You watch any person long enough and they will do something that they can be sent to prison for.
You've never speeded? Even on accident? Like you weren't aware of the speed limit on a road that you've never been on in a strange town?
GIVE ME A BREAK! If you can't be honest with us, at least be honest with yourself.
I'm not average.......and I'm not above the law as you seem to think you are silly....sorry.........
"I can't drive 55!"
I would bet 95% of the American public go up to 5 miles per hour over the speed limit regularly.
The percentage higher than 5 miles per hour?? I would say conservatively over 50%.
Drones?? should be protecting the border , or killing terrorists internationally , ONLY.
We are running to the day where we have gps chips in us, and can be neutralized at whim.
Like the old Sci-fi's
Fu*k the law! F*ck the cops and Fuc* the New Big Brother.
" And I want my freedom to speed."
Our highway could be like the Autobahn if there wasn't so many idiots on the road, especially teenagers texting on their cell phones. Don't get angry at me, but I think that Germans drive a lot better than Americans, mainly because they can't drive until they are 18 and they must take a long driving lessons.
Well, I can safely say that I have never sped because I don't drive. A speeding or parking ticket could get me locked up for the rest of my life, so for that reason I don't have a car. I have a bicycle and am lucky enough to live and work in the same municipality which also has a decent public transit system. Have spent MAYBE a total of 5 hours behind the wheel of a car since I got my license. Never been arrested, have nothing on my driving record, no points on my license. Got ONE ticket a while back when my municipality first passed laws saying bicylists aren't allowed on the sidewalk. I got a $25 ticket for riding my bike on the sidewalk and paid it the next paycheck promptly.
lukewarmandyellow -
You are a good boy. A good, good boy. Aren't cha fella? Yeah, good boy - now sit. Roll over boy. Now fetch the stick! Speak! Arf arf! Good boy!!
You're just looking for a nice pat on the head, aren't cha?
I can see ya now.. smiling, tongue hangin out, ears perked up, dumb glassy look in your eyes..
GOOD BOY!!
Big brother is watching. What a great use of taxpayer money. What's going to happen when one crashes and kills a group of people. Law enforcement is out of control in this country. No drones, no tanks, no machine guns.
4 Million dolars each? That's pretty steep for anything other than border patrol or ant-terrorist work.
Where are the small-government teabaggers when you need them? Lets try to keep these out of the hands of deputy dawg.
.
I shudder at the thought of Sheriff Joe OurPieHole getting his hands on these.
An unmanned Navy drone crashed on Maryland's Eastern Shore earlier this week. Google 'Drone Crash in Maryland.' No one got hurt, fortunately, but when you see the wreckage and the wide area of burned grass, you realize just what could have happened if there'd been a house there. Or a school, or a public building...
'Course, they can say a homegrown terrorist hijacked the wireless signal (plausible) and say the terrorist crashed the drone into the school/public building, thereby getting permission from Congress for more drones...
Well i actually considered patroling the southern border as the only thing i liked about them.Thats if they are setup with missles and can target illegals.
Sherrif Joe should get a medal and a statue in his honor as the only official willing to enforce laws and try to stem the invasion of arizona by illegal aliens.
I would approve of their use along the border to Mexico to kill illegal aliens entering the United States illegally.
Amen.
sadly obozo is never going to use them to patrol for illegals...only citizens to make sure we are obeying obozo regs...
The National Guard troops at the border brought drones with them when they were deployed there. The Xaver 800 Through-Wall Imaging System was tested in Nogales, AZ, as was the retina scanners--tested accurate at retinal identification as far as 15 feet away. Instant portable DNA analyzers were tested at an El Paso border stop--anyone stopped at the border had to submit a DNA sample.
Amanda,never heard of that one.I did read about a weapon that can shoot pepper spray over one hundred yards at over 80 mph. Should come in handy for the riots.Oh and i was told years ago they could bounce a beam off your window glass and figure out everything your saying,vibrations.
I'm guessing that most of you who responded positively to this have never actually SERVED your Country in the Military or you wouldnt be so quick to want us murdering people. Go back to your beer, pistols and Nazi flags, boys. Theres nothing to see here...
classic obozo...so concerened about privacy, until he gains power...
What's an "Obozo"?
That is an inept lying quasi socialist.
A version of hitler/stalin with advanced technology at his disposal.
This equipment is used against the United States' enemies....if our government uses it against it's own citizens, then they consider their citizens enemies.
A version of hitler/stalin with advanced technology at his disposal.
I thought that was Bush and his Dark Lord, Cheney. Was it Obusho? you meant?
Our government is far too intrusive even without drones. Leave my private life alone.
Your private life on a public freeway?
How's that work?
you believe anything dont you? ...ok obozo says the moon is made of frer cheese.
Science (aka #1 republican enemy) has proven otherwise....sorry........
If you think they will use them just to catch speeders you are truly naive.
Time to start deciding how long you are willing to put up with this mess.
Silly,
They could use them to catch drunk drivers, felons fleeing the scene of a crime or accident, drug runners, etc............
There's a couple things that came to mind as I was reading both the article and the comments here. First, they say the're going to use it to catch speeders. OK, how many speeding tickets would have to be paid to cover the cost of just ONE drone, let alone 30,000?
Second, someone here mentioned using the drones to measure "emissions from bovine flatulence" in order to reduce "pollution." Well, "bovine flatulence" is natural, ok? Cows and other animals have farted since the beginning of time, and the environment was just fine. How much worse are the emissions from the engines of these drones, especially given that they're closer to the ozone layer than any cow will ever get?
lukewarmandyellow- and what about the innocents that get caught up in this Nazi crap? Hitler would have been so proud of you...what a good little Nazi you have become.
well its here ...the police state brought to you by obozo & co...
I always thought it was Republicans who are into law and order...
Like the true war criminal himself Bushboy jr and every republican in office didn't take a fat smelly dump on our rights years ago. And now you blame Obama only ?
Careful pointing that poop stained finger at others BRO.
Blaming the Patriot act on Obama?? Little late in its history .
You do know that they are currently pushing for a backdoor to your internet providers??
There's only two things the Republican & Democrat legislators agree on. Grabbing more power, and their pay raises.
We talk mostly about Obama because he is the president,Bush is history.
Obama just took that evil bushs patriot act to new levels. drones,NDAA. new executive powers,more than bushs!czars?@!$%# who are these guys?commies?
Republicans, democrats...they're all the same as far as tyranny goes. We already know how close John McCain (R) is to his chum John Kerry (D), so what difference does party affiliation make anymore?
You people are so lost. You're prisoners in a jail you paid for. You will get everything you deserve. I can't leave this emerging Nazi police state fast enough. 10 years from now, you'll be crying, because you'll realize you had your chance to stop this.
Gary, ten years from now I'll be dead.... a lot sooner if I'm lucky. And I already think it's too late. The drones are the finishing touch. In the meantime, good luck with wherever you end up.
most people will not accept that they could have stopped this ever, much less in 10 years. We will keep on getting "the treatment". It may already be too late to stop the mess we allowed ourselves to get in.
You are right.....all the freedoms we have lost is because we let it happen. Oh your safer if you wear a seat belt..... lets make a law for that. Oh your safer if you wear a helmet......lets make a law for that. Oh you will be safer if we put drones in the sky......we have a law for that! and on and on and on.....and we let it happen!!!! Because there is always some moron who thinks because it will make you safer, it should be shoved down all our throats.
They don't "think" it'll make you safer, but they do a fine job of selling that. All they have to do is say this that or the other will make you safe, and there you have it.
If their goal is to increase revenue, they should actually hire more cops to patrol the roads and go after speeders and other types of aggressive drivers. The creation of added police jobs would bring more revenue to cash-strapped cities and local businesses as the new hires spend their paychecks. It could be the traffic ticket recovery.
Willow, you don't get it... they want more revenue alright, but they intend to keep it at the top. They don't want to spread it around. Take a look at how the old USSR worked. Now add modern technology.
Since 9/11 we have given up one freedom after another. I blamed the republicans and their scare tactics, but the dems haven't given anything back. They renewed the Patriot act when they had the chance to kill it. I don't want to ever have a drone doing anything in the US. Someone said it earlier, the terrorists have won. They don't ever have to attack us again; they just have to say boo every once in a while and we panic. War on Terror was the War to Nowhere and it's coming to a sky near you.
Well said, Thomas.
Obama is merely Bush 2.0 (or would that be 3.0?) extending every new executive authority Bush had acquired and then expanding them even further. What a joke.
I never do anything wrong, never even been arrested. But things like this make me fear my goverment just as much as the terrorist. As I see it my goverment is using the same technology on its own people as they do our nations enemies. Little by little we are losing the freedoms which have made our country the land of the free.
No I don't approve of the drones or the cameras either.
Could not agree more!!!!
omg adolph must be rolling in his grave...he did not live long enough to see a true police state
My sentiments exactly.
Ha,ha, let freedom ring. Just wear a big hat and do not look up. Scary to see what it looks like in 10 years time.
I can't help but think about my grandchildren's future.
Inch by Inch, Step by Step our country is becoming like a prison.
Indeed, but it's a Prison Planet...... get it?? You should go check out Alex Jones. He may be a pain sometimes, but the information he has is worth it. His guests are what make that show. Another great source is Coast to Coast. It's a late night radio show, but if you can't stay up, there's a site on youtube called boomdaddy that replays them. I'll just warn you up front, they cover all kinds of stories, including aliens and ufos, but i get into that for the entertainment value, and who am I to say they don't exist? Too much time on the current real issues can be depressing.
Yeah I watch Ancient Aliens on the History Channel sometimes and I see the guy from Coast to Coast on there. I like the guy with the crazy hair and the fake bake saying "It was Ancient Aliens" more though. He cracks me up.
If Big Brother tries to keep track of everyone, they're going to widen their focus and just give themselves more work, and they won't be able to track the ones they really want to, because they'll get lost in the crowd of 300 million Americans Big Brother tries to keep tabs on.
Yeah, they can see me rolling a joint in my backyard from 50,000 feet, but fluck them -- let 'em try to justify using that against me in court, and the ACLU and even a right-wing activist Supreme Court will laugh their cases right back into the street.
Except, they just might mail you a $300 ticket.
U would be truly amazed if you knew how much the spooks in the security agencies can track at one time!
Why bash "right-wingers" Warren when your "left-wing" President is expanding the use of drones both domestically and internationally?
The video would stick in court if a positive ID could be made...which wouldn't be difficult given current resolution.
Spending big bucks to spy on your own country while letting politicians steal tax dollars who tell everybody the economy is good now while the middle class people are commiting sucide because they can't make ends meet. Where America is going ain't a good place.
Theyre building a giant facility in Utah to check every single piece of electrical information out there.Look it up,its scary.1984 bud.
America is gone allen. We the people means nothing anymore. We have lost and they know it.
Wow, what a retarded comment, SillyBilly-3587160 and Lucy1. Try moving to North Korea if you want to see what a real police state is like. Pathetic - you people have so much and your sad little egos just crave more.