I'll be impressed once I see the Catholic Church hit with a massive fine for shuffling around pedophiles in their priesthood. Going after unpopular groups like Jehovas Witnesses is easy.

This is stupid. There was no one in the heirarchy of the congregation who did the deed, it was a member. The member should be the one fined.

This is like fining the Southern Baptist Convention because a Baptist raped someone. This ruling has no chance. It'll be overruled in a higher court.

"a member and a congregation leader"

The article says a "rank and file member" but it also says he was a congregation leader. Being a leader of any sort removes you from "just a rank and file member."

The article also said that the "elders" were under the supervision of The Watchtower, not Kendrick. Apparently, whatever "leadership" position was local and not under The Watchtower.

She didn't sue Kendrick or the elders, she sued the religion. Which is dumb. I take it there's some confusion on the part of the judge.

Folks, whether or not he was a leader the fact was the leadership knew he was a pervert and then they COVERED IT UP. BTW the Catholic church has paid millions and millions so the courts DO GET THE BIG GUYS TOO!

Another site that might be of interest. Its a documentary about people raised JW. Not sure of production status but it looks promising:

http:// www. hereliesthetruth. com/

Life defending the Jehovahs Witness religion is sure one tough deal.

Did God Himself get all those EMBARRASSING END OF WORLD DATES wrong? (1914, 1925, 1975, 2000, GENERATION OF 1914 ETC)...

Did God get forbidding Vaccinations wrong too?

And then 21 years later did God change his mind about vaccinations?

(Or was it possibly because vaccinations were stomping out polio, smallpox, diptheria, measles and more)?

Did God get, "ALTERNATIVE SERVICE" wrong? (((FOR 50 YEARS))).

Did God change his mind 50 years later and then say alternative service is now okay to do?

Who did all those brothers go to jail for? Was it for Jehovah or for the Watchtower Society?

How about Beth-Sarim embarrassment.

JW's built a HOUSE for the resurrected bible characters in 1933.

But they never showed up.

The JW religion is not what they say about themselves.

There is NO PROOF ANYWHERE that supports God has been using WT Society as JW's claim.

In fact there is a MOUNTAIN OF PROOF that God has never used them:

Just Google this: Spiritual food at the proper time

Deal with that JW's. (if you got about a week to read through it all).

For example:

Was God's spirit with JW's when they said Organ Transplants was a "conscience matter" in 1961?

Was God"s spirit with WT when they THEN SAID Organ Transplants are same as "Cannibalism" in 1967?

Or was God's spirit with WT when they THEN SAID Organ Transplants are NOT the same as cannibalism in 1980?

Was God behind all those changes each time?

Did (((GOD))) get all those things wrong each time?

Did God cause folks TO DIE by listening to the WT Society as the voice of God?

AND THIS IS JUST ONE THING!!!

We can do this same song and dance THOUSANDS OF TIMES.

That's how bad defending WT world has become.

Just sharing the truth here. Open your eyes to the COMPLETE JW picture and see things as they truly are.

Rather than what they tell you on their bible studies with their 'bible teach' book.

Vinny

You're also missing the fact that Kendrick hasn't even been convicted of the crime she's suing them for. So they're fining the religion for the actions of a member that was not under supervision of the actual church and who may or may not have even commited the crime...

Yeah this'll be overturned faster than a flapjack

@journal journal,

Normally that would be the case yes. Except the Watchtower corporation dictates in their own handbooks that in child abuse cases the authorities are not to be alerted unless there are two testifying witnesses of the crime. Whenever a child molestation accusation is made, it is also directed that the Watchtower legal department is to be contacted immediately for guidance. This means the Watchtower corporation was in full knowledge of these events and instructed their local representatives to not alert the authorities that this pedophile was molesting multiple children (over time).

A child had previously come forward and said she was molested by Kendrick. The matter was kept private and sealed, no action was taken because there wasn't a 2nd witness to that specific abuse. Now Conti comes forward a few years later and says she was molested by Kendrick, this is the 2nd child to come forward against Kendrick. The "elders" (aka pastors, representatives hand-picked by the Watchtower corporation) still did nothing. Years later in 2004 Kendrick was caught with his hand in the cookie jar by the authorities, thus confirming he was in fact a child molester.

As a result of the negligence on part of the Watchtower corporation's hand-picked representatives, Conti and children after her were molested by Kendrick. When you know that someone is engaging in egregiously illegal activity that is also harming others, and you do nothing about it, you could even be named as a conspirator. Which, in this case the fine against the Watchtower corporation should have been much higher than $20 million.

Check reddit.com/r/exjw for more details.

A ((( JURY ))) has already decided and found the Jehovahs Witness Religion ((( RESPONSIBLE ))).

And even more importantly, so do many other people who know about these sorry JW policies.

THIS IS TERRIBLE PUBLICITY FOR THE JEHOVAHS WITNESS RELIGION!!!

Good to see.

I don't care about the church "handbook". This isn't a case of doctrine and "I don't like Jehovah's Witnesses because their teachings gave me asthma!". It's a case of "Who is responsible for this incident".

In this case, it's impossible to even start because the guy was never charged with the crime! Don't you get it? If there's no conviction, there's nothing to sue over. You can't just walk over and sue someone because you don't like how they do things.

Hmmm... This is not just a matter with the Jehovah's Witnesses.

You name the organized religion, as in fill in the blank _______________, and more likely than not, there will be sex abuse involving children, minors, and adults in some cases.

This is just the tip of the religious sex abuse iceberg...

Whistle, you can say that about many organizations. Boys Scouts of America, Penn State, many school systems around the country. It's not just religious organizations.

Any organization that Children are involved in, you will get perverts. They are drawn to those professions, scout leaders, athletic coaches, clergy, whatever.

www dot Towerwatch dot com

This is clearly an attack! Im not a witness, I have parents who are. If the JW know this Man, was touching kids he would have been disfellowship ASAP. This goes against there believe system. This MAN is Responible for his action.

Found direct link to doc trailer!!!

Don't you get it? If there's no conviction, there's nothing to sue over.

right, just like OJ....

your knowledge of law is very weak

I am a big advocate of freedom of religion, HOWEVER, from documentaries I have seen, the Jehovah's Witnesses organization operates much like a cult (close monitoring and enforced control of personal activities).

After being forced to follow this religion for from the age of 3 until 16..I was left with horrible visons of the world coming to an end and only the chosen ones would lived through the armageddon, for a young child it was a scarey experience. They destroyed families by disfellowshipping or kicking out members of the church for not following the rules and from that point forward the family was not permitted to communicate with that ex member. The Elders would "counsel" members to convince them to stay ..I later found out that NONE of the Elders had any education ..licensures or degrees to counsel anyone...It is a cult and I hope the $20 million fine sticks!

OJ was sued, not the religion (if there was one) that he belonged to.

If she wants to sue Kendrick, that's all well and good. But you can't sue other people over what may/may not, have happened, unless you can prove it did. That's why this case is so offbase.

In California, clergy are mentioned specifically as being "mandated reporters" of child abuse. It's likely they reported it to authorities, if it happened. If they didn't, they're definitely in trouble with the law.

@ journal; The 'handbook', as Anon mentioned in his step-by-step of the whys and wherefores of the case, states two witnesses must come forward. She is the second, but they still kept it secret.

From the article; The California sex offender registry lists two convictions for him: lewd or lascivious acts with a child under 14 years of age and sexual battery involving a restrained person.

And yet they STILL kept it secret and covered for this POS. This case was against the JW (intentionally separate of the rapist) because their act of keeping the crimes a secret is tantamount to illegally withholding evidence of (or covering up) a crime from the authorities. If you want to get technical, the authorities should have prosecuted the JW for that crime, but you can't convict and incarcerate an organization like you can with a person. What the suit was about was the abused woman's attempt to force them to change their criminal behavior which they view as 'policy'. And nothing could do that better than hitting them in the pocketbook, which all religions consider their 'family jewels' (or supremely important, if you get my drift).

As the article mentioned, this suspect's criminal culpability is still being investigated. His troubles will continue, if that's what you're concerned about. HIM they can put in prison where he already belongs.

wonder why I am for freedom from religion

being abused in such a way is obviously extremely devastating to say the least. with that being said i believe that she is accusing the wrong party. simply stated, the man who did this to her is to blame not the entire congregation of Jehovah Witnesses.

journal,

you missed the point again

OJ wasn't convicted, but OJ was sued by Ron Goldman's family and was awarded compensation. Civil cases only require a preponderance of guilt to be able to award damages. Criminal cases require beyond a reasonable doubt which is a much higher standard for conviction of a crime.

Since we want to use OJ as an example........ he is presently serving time for kidnapping in which he was aided by co conspirators who also faced criminal charges. Much like the elders and watchtower have been attached to the monetary award given to the victim since they were involved with the commission of the crime.

No, you missed the point. OJ was sued. Here she's not suing Kendrick, the person who supposedly did this to her. I'm wondering why not.

And yet they STILL kept it secret and covered for this POS.

How do you keep something secret that's public record?

because their act of keeping the crimes a secret is tantamount to illegally withholding evidence of (or covering up) a crime from the authorities.

I think you're confused. She's suing because they didn't tell the congregation. If they didn't tell the authorities then maybe this ruling would have a leg to stand on (if it happened) but even she admits that she's suing because they don't broadcast to every JW on the planet anyone who was convicted as a sex offender, not because they didn't report it to authorities.

It's likely that they did report it. My question is why didn't she press charges against him? Isn't the statute of limitations 35 years?

It is time that EVERYONE wake up and take responsibility for these monsters. 1 out of 4 girls will be molested by the time they reach adulthood (same number for boys) That means that we all must know someone who is a child molester or has desires that point in that direction.

We cannot sit by and keep quiet about it. The problem is that people don't want to get their hands dirty ...or judge...or upset someones life. When they could be saving a life. Talk about it! Talk about it with friends and family. If you can't bring yourself to call the police at least tell everyone around you..... your sister, mom, dad, cousins, neighbors. DON'T Stop talking about it, don't stop talking about the person that is the perpetrator. This type of evil lives in secret and dark, the more light we spread the less likelihood of more children being hurt. Hurt children+ten years= angry adults.

lets just solve the problem of child molesters and repeat molesters. a bullet to the head. and please dont whine about that being cruel. the only cruel thing is the lifetime damage done to a child and allowing it to happen twice by the same animal!

these are the worst of the worst pedophiles; those that hide behind religion to prey on those that trust in them(catholic, Jehovah witness and any other religion).

Wow. Who knew that churches were so profitable? I think all churches need to lose their tax exempt status.

@ journal; I think you're confused. She's suing because they didn't tell the congregation. If they didn't tell the authorities then maybe this ruling would have a leg to stand on (if it happened) but even she admits that she's suing because they don't broadcast to every JW on the planet anyone who was convicted as a sex offender, not because they didn't report it to authorities.

So you DO understand, just not too accurately. By keeping it a secret and allowing this guy to interact with children (if the rest of the congregation knew, you see, they wouldn't let their kids NEAR this POS, at least, I wouldn't), they facilitated, or enabled if you wish, his eventual perpetuating these acts on helpless children, which the next one (that we KNOW of) was her.

It's likely that they did report it. My question is why didn't she press charges against him? Isn't the statute of limitations 35 years?

I thought I answered that with my final lines. I'll repeat; As the article mentioned, this suspect's criminal culpability is still being investigated. His troubles will continue, if that's what you're concerned about. HIM they can put in prison where he already belongs. The strange thing, I'll admit, is that usually the victim files a civil suit AFTER the criminal case is won or lost. But as we've stated, this suit was against the JW for their part in enabling this assault to happen to her when she was 9, not the criminal who did it. Someone needed to be held responsible for allowing the environment that existed where this POS was in a position to be able to do this to her. And that was the whole organization.

I had a Jehovah problem once worse than a bad case of May Mole Grubs. I would just ignore and ingnore and the problem would git worse. I decided to be mysef the next time early Sat Morn when they come.

Answered howdy with a Bud Tallboy, Marlboro Red going, wet swimming trucks and Mr. Bo Bo standing at attention!! I smiled and they said "wrong House". That's how I cured myself of the Jehovah's........

Good for her! I was in the exact same position when I was little! My father was abusing me and they cover it up 100%. They told me I couldn't talk to the police about it. Now my father is finally going to jail after 20 years with a 300 year sentance. This is because he was left to be free to hurt other girls for 20 years by the Jehovah's witnesses back then!!!! For those who don't think this judgement isn't right, try living in her shoes and mine! And if you haven't, please don't think you are qualified to comment on this!!!!

big mac-5984890 - "wonder why I am for freedom from religion"

1 in 4 girls will be molested some time before she reaches adulthood. And it is more likely than not that it will be a family member. I assume you're for freedom from families too?

You can blame religion but what we're really looking at here are sick people and religion did not make them that way, it only gave them something to hide behind.

Jehovah Himself also witnessed the molestation and did nothing. Why isn't He being sued too?

Hey, Journal Journal it is apparent that you did not get it. It's OK little guy, go back to sleep.

It is a crime to fail to notify authorities if you know that child abuse has been committed. The law makes it explicit that it covers even information obtained through the confessional. The Jehovah's Witnesses have been guilty since they covered up the first case. It doesn't matter which case they were fined over, because they have been guilty from the first one.

journal,

maybe you missed this:

"Sixty percent of the compensatory damages was assessed against Jonathan Kendrick, the man accused of abusing her"......as you can see he was a named defendant in the lawsuit to be able to have damages assessed against him. Do you have any idea of how a lawsuit works? Do you understand why they sue organizations and individuals along with Doe(s) 1 thru 10? It is for the ability to add anyone who is found responsible to be part and parcel of the damages

Twenty years ago I told these people to stop knocking on my door. Had to get feisty with them after the third time. Told them I did not want what they were selling they kept coming and istopped even answering the door. Wife told me...they will get theirs. Hope she reads this.....

marklepew, thanks for straightening journal out and saving me the trouble. As most people should know, any lawyer will sue anyone that might even be remotely involved and see what shakes out.

Mr.Clarke ,So it seems all religions (at least the Christian ones) are socialist than(?), and most would agree religion is a good thing therefore socialism is a good thing too... I do agree that socialism is good (at least it's not nearly as bad as all these whiners say) but I don't think all religions are good ..(they all seem to contradict each other)...we sure don't want any of those goody two shoes feeding our hungry or healing our sick do we now Mr.Clarke ?

I am no fan of the JW's what-so-ever. However this ruling is just plain wrong and should concern us all. The perpetrator should be the one held responsible. The only exception to that would be if the action of the individual was sanctioned by the organization, then by all means whackem good.

As a person born to parents who are still knee-deep in this cult, I am elated for Ms. Conti. I left the "organization" at age 18 and never looked back. I was aware of numerous issues pertaining to false doctrine and what I considered cruel and unusual punishment a/k/ "public reproval" and/or "disfellowship" as a method to control their "brothers and sisters", and it just didn't sit well with me. Unfortunately, I was disowned by my parents as a result, as was my older brother when he left the organization voluntarily like I did. Neither of us are allowed in their home or to even speak with them. Our remaining 5 brothers and sister are all in contact with us, but the pain and damage to us, their children, and our entire family unit will never be made right. This particular case is about outing the wrongs of the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society's flawed policies and making them responsible, at least financially, for said flawed policies. If you want more evidence of how rampant the sexual and physical abuse cover-up really is within the Society, check out http://www.silentlambs.org/. On a slightly different topic, my heart breaks for the many who've lost their lives because of the Society's blood transfusion ban or, as has happened at least 8 times before, their flip flopping on the blood transfusion issue in response to legal pressure to do so. One such change was to allow hemophiliacs to have blood transfusions because, I suppose, not allowing them to have a blood transfusion could, more often than not, cost them their lives. Did they ever stop to think that anyone, not just hemophiliacs, needing a blood transfusion could, more often than not, be in a position to lose their live(s)? YES! Did they care? NO! They had us carrying "Just Say No To Blood Transfusion" cards when we were tots!!! Seriously, this is one of the more dangerous cults out there, people. Be kind to them if they knock on your door trying to sell you a magazine or book because they're forced to do the door to door "service" as it is the one thing that ensures their salvation. I guess the whole "Grace" concept was conveniently erased from their Society's New World Translation of The Bible, 'eh? How else could they influence so many people to do their "selling" for them? As for Ms. Conti, I have only praise for her strength, courage and willingness to take it on the chin and risk losing all she's ever know to do the right thing for herself and for all of the victims of this heinous cult and other religions like it. Any witness on this Newsvine engaging in rants and defensive rhetoric should also get a pass. They will be considered to be "apostate" if they do anything other than defend the Society to their dying breath, and they too could and would be disfellowshipped thereby losing everyone and everything they've ever known. Sickeninly said, isn't it?

*sickeningly sad* apologies for the typo(s)

Uh no, he was not in any position of authority. I read the court docs. The jury was probably made up of people on this forum. Who know nothing, but have very strong opinions.

It's likely it will be turned over in appeals. It may be that Mrs. Conti will be sued for defamation.

It doesn't matter whether or not the sexual predator was in a position of authority, it was the congregation's and the Society's responsibility to report his sordid past to authorities and to follow standard protocol as it relates to making sure their parishioners were aware of his past convictions as a sex offender. It's a matter of law and both guilty parties chose to ignore the law. They are guilty by virtue of their decision to put their dogma and internal policies above the law of the land and, thereby, putting children in great jeopardy. What part these facts fails to resonate with you, journal journal?

I doubt the president would sanction hushing up rapes and putting further victims into the rapist's clutches, which would be against the law.

This "church" did not protect their most vulnerable members. Shame on them. I hope they have to pay all the victims similarly.

Whoever said Jehova Witness are Christian is someone ignorant, he/she needs to read more about how much they hate Christianity, but now they accepted it as an strategic tool, to gain more religious people, who prefere to be guide by religion than by the Holy Spirit.

roy,

your comments makes me wonder if you are that thick.

“Whoever receives one such young child on the basis of my name receives me also. But whoever stumbles one of these little ones who put faith in me, it is more beneficial for him to have hung around his neck a millstone such as is turned by an ass and to be sunk in the wide, open sea . . . See to it that you men do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell YOU that their angels in heaven always behold the face of my father who is in heaven.” - Matthew 18:5-10.

Jehovah's Witnesses, as a whole, lead very clean lives. For those in here who profess to be "experts" on something they know nothing about, here it is:

Any behavior that violates God's law is not acceptable, under any conditions. Especially perpetrators of helpless children. Not all people’s professing to be Jehovah's Witnesses are. Just as in all other religions, or organizations, there are hypocrites. Jehovah's Witnesses are one of the most honest, hard working, and decent people to be encountered. There is NO racism, prejudice, in this organization. People of all background congregate without any of the problems that is prevalent.

Are they perfect? No, and they will be the first to admit it. But they also believe that “Bad association spoils useful habits”. While they are careful who is among their association, they believe that God is the reader of hearts. It is God who will separate the sheep from the goats.

One can ridicule and persecute all they want, after all the people of Noah's laughed, and made fun of him, too. But, they didn't laugh long.

2 Timothy 3:1-17

1 But know this, that in the last day’s critical times hard to deal with will be here. 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, self-assuming, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, 3 having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, 4 betrayers, headstrong, puffed up [with pride], lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godly devotion but proving false to its power; and from these turn away.

Is anything looking familiar?

One has to admit that rarely, if ever, do Jehovah’s Witnesses make the news in this fashion. I am confident that the Appellate Judge will find that it should not have this time either.

This is not an indictment of the church. It's an indictment of the men or leaders who chose to protect their church, rather than the innocent child. Same is true for the priests and others like Sandusky. People must stop caring more about their institutions than for children or others who have been abused.

I was pretty sure this would be a hotly commented article. I may as well throw my hat in the ring.

As with any organization that takes a stand that is different than 99.9% of the population out there, we are a lightning rod for hatred and enemies of all sorts. I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses and have been baptized as one for over 20 years. First of all, there is no official policy of any sort to protect sex offenders. In fact, we are one of the few organizations that apply the words of 1 Corinthians 5:1-13 and actually expell members who are found to be unrepentantly engaging in serious wrongdoing, such as pedophilia. In an organization of now 7 million people with 7 million different backgrounds and 7 million different sets of personal problems and weaknesses, it is not a surprise that eventually someone would commit such a serious sin as pedophilia. Also, while it is not the official policy to cover up such wrongdoing, I know that there have been mishandled cases in the past by judicial committees and bodies of elders, which I am also not surprises by because, once again, no one has ever claimed that anyone in this organization is infallible.

I also know that when such cases have been uncovered by traveling overseers (those who oversee multiple congregations) and/or the branch (the entity that oversees and entire country or area), there has been severe discipline and outright HOUSECLEANING. I know of a congregation where an ENTIRE body of elders was removed because of the mishandling of judicial cases. There has also been a LOT of retraining of elders on how to handle such cases and a lot more oversite to make sure such situations do not come up again.

Hence, there is not a systematic attempt to protect and hide sex offenders in the congregation - certainly no congregation I have ever been associated with. I have been an Ministerial Servant (comparable to a Deacon in other denominations) in three congregations in three different states, and I can tell you that all of the people I have associated with HATE pedophilia.

I also know of many people, even close friends who have been expelled from the congregation for FAR less grave sins than pedophilia. My best friend was expelled for unrepentant fornication, consentual sex with an adult woman I might add. To this day, if I passed him on the street I would not say hello. My sister was also expelled for a similar situation - unrepentant fornication. She is still expelled, and I have not spoken to her in 10 years. One of the elders in my old congregation was expelled from the congregation very recently, and while I was not privy to the details of that case, he was not above God's law either. I have known of other elders who have been expelled for fornication, adultry, etc. Most have repented and come back, but some did not. My point? If someone would be excommunicated for unrepentantly engaging in consentual sex with another adult, do you honestly think this organization is going to purposely protect a pedophile???

So, no, this is not a perfect organization. BUT it does take moral cleanliness VERY seriously and, far more than ANY other religious organization, it takes steps to keep its congregation clean.

I am sure that if you Googled it, you could find the bitter outpourings of 1,000 people mad at our organization because they felt they were wrongly expelled from it. Is it a surprise that we have such enemies in this day and time? No. 1 John 5:19 "We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." Jesus said his followers would be "objects of hatred" on account of his name. (Matthew 10:22; 24:9) He also said that some would lyingly say every sort of thing about us. (Matthew 5:11)

Besides, as Peter said, "Whom shall we go away to lord? Only you have sayings of everlasting life." (John 6:68, 69) Show me another organization that encourages its members to deeply study the Bible, doesnt believe in the trinity, hellfire, the immortality of the soul, that uses Gods name in their worship, has not been polluted by pagan practices such as Christmas and Easter, has refused to kill his neighbor in warfare, follows Jesus command to preach the good news in all the world, and that takes as drastic of steps to keep the congregation clean in accord with 1 Corinthians 5.

After reading all the comments so far, the one thing that sticks out a mile is that not one person has mentioned giving a share of the blame to the parents/guardians of this/any child? Where were the parents at the time their 9yr old was being abused? Jehovah taught me thoroughly, through the meetings, the assemblies, the publications including the Watchtower and Awake magazines exactly how to protect my own children from these horrible people, be it, people pretending to be Jehovah's Witnesses or any other person. I am very grateful for everything Jehovah taught me, I put it in to practise and it paid off. I feel so sorry for the genuine elders in the organisation who so often have their hands tied by the so called law of the land, data protection, looney liberal do gooders, so called human right activists who do nothing except destroy common sense and take away the other person's human rights. If the elders were free in law to announce from the platform the names of anyone suspected or even convicted of child abuse ( or anything else come to that) they'd be sued, imprisoned etc etc, so they are damned if they do and damned if they don't. One thing they do do though is educate, educate, educate, it's up to us as individuals whether we listen to the education in the first place, and then whether we put it into practice and responsible parents. Over the past 35yrs I've seen so many 100's of people come and go, as we all freely are able but the ones with a chip on their shoulder are the ones that decide to fight and to justify their actions and seem to spend hours upon hours doing it, why? Everything I have ever read from all the millions of poor hard done by people who have wasted all their lives or their childhood, forced to live their life as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, I have never seen any of it myself, and trust me, I scrutinise everything in life with a fine tooth comb. If you've wasted so much of your life, now you are "free" why aren't you using your freedom to enjoy the rest of your life? Or is tearing down Jehovah and his people more enjoyable for you? If Jehovah is not using the Watchtower Society then it will come to nothing and whichever organisation he is using is the one that will succeed. If there is no Jehovah or God of any sort, then eat drink and be merry for tomorrow you will die :-) :-)

It is california law and in many states to report child abuse of any kind.

• Clergy members means a

priest, minister, rabbi, religious

practitioner, or similar

functionary of a church,

temple, or recognized religious

denomination or organization.

(P.C. 11166 (c)). adult).

Elders hands are not tied by the laws of the land, they are tied by the Watchtower Society who dictates to them protocal. Yes, these elders and congregation are costing them a heavy burden now and will have to pay for what the Watchtower has dictated to them, not the law.

Parents were not told so they could protect their child against this man, while him taking this child out in door to door service.

Not doubt many good Jehovah's Witnesses do what's right, but what your leaders do behind closed doors is another story.

The abuser/peodophile signed a confession as well as the Watchtower Society's hand book given to elders was submitted for evidence.

He's fine was waived by signing a confession smug one. The elders and Watchtower Society will have to pay due to protocal they themselves inforced by keeping it a secret by not alerting all in the congregation. There has been many who stay in good standing by either lieing due to three witness rule and not letting the proper authorities like the police do their job.

It is the law of the land to report these crimes in California.

“This is the first case I know of where a church has been hit with liability involving a rank-and-file member,” he [Mr. McCabe] told msnbc.com.

By a Jehovah Witness' elder, to be sexually abused in this manner has to be devastating to Ms. Conti.

The Jehovah Witness organization is a cult. Jehovah Witnesses do not call their places of "service" a church. They refer to their houses of "worship" as "Kingdom Halls."

The Jehovah Witness organization is extremely inoculated from society.

"The walls" of the kingdom Halls are high and tall. This cult is very secretive and highly controlling of its members. Thus, this factor made it especially difficult for Ms. Conti to seek refuge from her abusers.

Aside from Ms. Conti's "ungodly" abuse, many ex-members of this organization have revealed, oftentimes that this organization has left its members victims of brutal Child Abuse, brainwashing, debilitating mental illness, such as major Depression, losing the ability to think for oneself, losing the ability to interact with people that are outside of the organization, e.g. "the world," and having little to no control over one's life.

For coming forth to expose what happened to her and to encourage other people to step forward, hats off to Ms. Conti.

True Christianity is great. However the WBTS is a cult.

Out of the Cocoon: A Young Woman's Courageous Flight from
the Grip of a Religious Cult http://www.amazon.com/Out-Cocoon-Womans-Courageous-Religious/dp/1931741654/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339898108&sr=8-1&keywords=out+of+the+cocoon

lolfattynerdswhoknew

I'll be impressed once I see the Catholic Church hit with a massive fine for shuffling around pedophiles in their priesthood.

Agreed.

Round up all of the pedophiles!

Renee - Northern CA

Jehovah's Witnesses, as a whole, lead very clean lives

Renee,

Your statement is not true.

The misdeeds that occur in the WBTS, occur behind closed doors.

Outwardly, the J.W.s look like nice, friendly, religious people.

In fact, this cult brutally abuses children, brainwashes it members, robs its members of the ability to think logically and independently, ostracizes its members from family members who are not J.W.'s, destroys families, discourages its members from attending college, thus preventing its members from "opening their minds," discourages its members from marrying because the Jehovah Witness organization teaches that Armageddon is "right around the corner," forbids its members to celebrate holidays such as mother's day and Christmas and the WBTS forbids its members from voting.

The WBTS is very controlling.

Once a person realizes the damage that this organization has inflicted on his or her mind and in their life, they feel "trapped" inside the walls of WBTS.

They do not know how to get out of this mess.

True Christianity is unsurpassed.

The WBTS is a cult.

Worship God, but worship him truthfully.

Obviously the person who commited the incident should be the one sued not the witnesses

Jehovah taught me thoroughly, through the meetings, the assemblies, the publications including the Watchtower and Awake magazines exactly how to protect my own children from these horrible people,

no, they didn't

I know a woman who married into the jehova witnesses, her husband is abusive, the church will do noihing, telling her that "she needs to obey her husband better". and the cult has made it extremely clear to her that if she seeks help from any outside authority, the church will use all of their power, money and brainwashing of the children to make certain that she never sees her children again.

eff the jehova witness cult!

Thats non sense I know many jehovah's witnesses in fact some family members are witnesses, it amazes me that when ever something negative is said about them people come out of the wood work to give their negative insight,I have 0 respect for people who were a part of any religion , left that religion but fine reason to trash it after it no longer suits their needs, I have abhorence for anyone that abuses a child,but are we going to start holding everyones religion responsible for individual crimes if so every religion in the free world needs to open its check book and start writing checks

If this does not get overturned I will be surprised! (The judge or jury must have a bias) This was a member not the Watchtower and Tract Society...the elders (are volunteers...not ever paid) who may not have reported it, they possibly could be held accountable. For example I am a teacher (public official) and I cannot knowingly cover up child abuse. I would be held personally accountable, not the school district.

I do know word gets around quickly in a congregation...when I was attending we knew the history on each other. I was told by the elders to quietly report abuse I knew happened with a little girl. I studied the bible with her and found out her older brother was abusing her. I was told by the elders to report it and be discreet and not give my name. (The man was not a member of the congregation) I called DHS and they said they would follow up and I was advised to not go back to the home by the elders. I do know from personal experience congregation elders vary and some misuse the position but are always disfellowshiped at some point. Child molesters are quickly disfellowshiped and a talk is given so the whole congregation knows the type of misconduct...I would be very surprised if her parents were not aware of his history, they also should be held accountable. My parents knew every person around me when I was 9. I know parents who let their children be watched by very questionable people or no supervision with weird people. I do feel she needs some compensation but I feel specific people should be held accountable not a congregation that does not even tithe the people or pay any elders or members. God word really is free with Jehovah’s Witnesses…

wow this convo is crazy. i figured there would be alot of hate for witnesses. ive known them most of my life and they are people who jus try to do whats right. . .for those who left, most left the religion cuz they dont like the "control" but the problem i have with them sayingthat is its a protection. sure people today dont see a prob with sleeping around and gettin high sometimes etc but when u look at all the rules against such acts that the witnesses have its a protection. before i learned bout the religion i was like everyone else, i didnt see a big deal in certain things until later when i see the horrible effect it can bring if you live life "free", doing watever the hell u wanna do. the bible shows rules and examples of why u dont wanna do certain things. the witnesses jus try to inforce that. they truly wanna help. but people who leave dont give a damn and i believe for alot of them its because they cant handle discipline and they wanna be "free" but i bet most of those peoples lives arnt so great now. they arnt morally clean and worst of all they hurt gods feelings. sure some people may think thats overkill but really think about it. why did he have the bible written and let us know how he feels about certain things? to ignore it? no of course not. witnesses are the only religion i know that enforces the right thing. they reallly care about jehovah's feelings and wanna do what is right by him. tons of christian religions teach right but they dont really protect their people. they let them do watever and then u have tons of congregations having permiscuous people running round and getting high etc. (tho i realize not everyone is like that in a congregation of course). but becuz witnesses have an organized way of being they can make it so their congregation members wont do such things and ruin there lives. its kinda like parenting in a sense. most people i hav talked to that have a problem jus dont like discipline but if they didnt have it then they would be screwing up their lives. i just wish people would stop critizing them so much. yeh they have flaws but u cant expect perfection. in this world perfection is impossible. jus know that the witnesses (excluding the "fake" ones and hypocrites) are real good people. they jus wanna follow the bible as close as possible and they have good hearts.

wow this convo is crazy. i figured there would be alot of hate for witnesses. ive known them most of my life and they are people who jus try to do whats right.

most (not all) people try to do whats right, the problem lies in the abuse of power by religious leadership (and political leadership as well) to cover up wrongs by their followers or to force others to act in certain ways

No, the JW believe the Rapture was in 1914, when 140,000 JW were raised to Heaven. I don't know why they weren't missed, and why other good JWs didn't get to go, but a friend of mine was a JW for awhile, until they told her that she couldn't divorce her husband because he was a good JW. She had to stay married to him. So she left him, and left the JW group.

I really don't think we first need to go into why each religion would or would not be more prone to putting pedophiles or sexual offenders in its leadership. The first thing should be to set a very clear, well enforced rule that ANY organization that puts such people in trusted positions without doing due diligence, is going to be held liable. That would be too big of a task.

Once we really start getting tough on this when it happens, then there should be fewer problem organizations to deal with. Then more attention can and should be paid to any group that keeps doing things like this.

What you should be questioning, is the person himself and the elders who were responsible for the handling of this matter. This had nothing to do with the organization and there is no policy for keeping anything secret, private maybe, but not secret. You obviously are not a current 3rd generation Witness, because your comment refers to the J.W.'s church and everything in the 2nd or 3rd person reference. With stating the obvious here in the comment section, there is going to be several "Apostates" voicing their opinions to this or that, which your comments fall under that description. Why can't those that have "chosen" to leave the organization, just go quietly and live the life you want and stop wasting your time and our time on trying to expose our imperfections and focus on your own first. Does not Matthew 7, state: To remove the object from your eye first, before you can see to remove an object from anothers eye? If so, fix your problem first, before pointing out someone elses! The organization is filled with over 7,500,000 imperfect people, do you think that the organization and all its baptized members are perfect? Even when they handle things like this? Obviously Not! Although it is clear to me, that all the J.W. Haters and Former J.W.'s who are now J.W. Haters, cannot live their life without badmouthing their former faith. Does anyone in your current life, know what you are no longer part of the organization? If not, they should know that all J.W.'s that leave or are removed from the congregation, are removed for breaking God's laws and have committed: Fornication, Adultery, Homosexuality, Apostasy and the list goes on! So don't be fooled by the J.W. Haters, because they do not have a clean conscious, so they turn to badmouthing to make themselves feel better. Such sad people, to be filled with hate and a bad conscious, but instead of turning it towards yourselves, you turn it towards the organization. As Mr. T put it, "I pity the fool or fools".

Retroman66, you hit the nail on the head, and is so right.

Retroman66: when you quoted Matthew 7, was that from your Jehovas Witness bible, or from the King James? Because my King James bible is pretty different from yours!

JW is a cult-one of several under the guise of mainstream religion. If they ever get to the Morman cult to investigate child abuse, it will hit the fan. But will never happen.

@ suseq1591: I think it was a generalization not a actual quote from Mathew 7: 3-5 which is:

³ And why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? ⁴ Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? ⁵ Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Retroman you misused the term "Apostate" but I know it's not your fault. Coming from a proof text background that completely neglects context I can hardly blame you. I urge you to do more learning and less parroting. Jehovah gave you a fantastic brain but it needs to be exercised to be effective. Here is a relatively safe exercise for you to perform. Take the Watchtower articles that are used to support the pivotal date of 607 BCE. Now every time the article quotes a secular opinion look up that persons quote in their actual article. This way you can get the full context of what they were saying instead of just a soundbite. I'll even throw you a bone and direct you to the June 2012 Awake article that quotes Ephraim Stern talking about Babylon. Now find the actual article that Mr. Stern wrote and compare what was meant by that quote. Happy hunting there are some real treasures to be found out there.

Haszard4

"Danny Haszard born 1957 3rd generation Jehovah's Witness".

Really? Then you should know that they worship in "Kingdom Halls" and not "churches".

Yes, they believe in Armageddon, but not in the sense you misrepresented - " the end of the world) is coming any moment to *fix* their internal crimes". That is not part of their belief, nor has it ever been.

Really? 3rd generation? With so many mistaken facts, it makes one wonder.

@Renee: You must be joking.

"That is not part of their belief, nor has it ever been" (Armageddon-the end of the world)

Wow! It is MOST certainly part of their beliefs and very well documented. Their pulpy literature is full of scenes of destruction--cities aflame and collapsing on their inhabitants.

So, anyway, I guess they're too busy warning people about the end of the world to warn members of their congregation that a pedophile is in their midst.

But it's OK. I remember the daze when I used to take up for and attempt to defend the JWs despite every neuron screaming and rebelling.

With any luck you'll escape one day.

Ah, religion. Leave no child's behind!

MICHAELATX

Perhaps you misunderstood? See below- This reply was to Haszard4

I said : Yes, they believe in Armageddon, but not in the sense you misrepresented -

He said: " the end of the world) is coming any moment to *fix* their internal crimes".

I said: That is not part of their belief, nor has it ever been. Referring to his last comment. It has no place in their beliefs.

Indoctrinated and brainwashed Jehovah's Witnesses cannot and will not accept any argument, regardless of the facts, outside of what they have programmed to receive and believe. They need only turn to the WBTS publications for evidence of false prophesy(s) to confirm they are associated with a false religion and under the influence of enormous mind control, but they are so hysterically bind that they can categorically dismiss their own teachings when said teachings fail and fall apart, and at the direction of the very people and Society that authored said teachings. Astounding, no? They are taught that YOU are the "goat" and they are the "sheep." YOU are to listen to them with ears wide open, but they will never listen to any argument against their theology or their Society. You can try to reason with them with facts presented and taught in their own publications, including the false prophesies and Numerology practiced by their founder, Charles Taze Russell, and you'll turn blue in the face and drop dead while not ONE of them will budge. Theirs is the very definition of "Cult", and as is typical of cult members, they'll deny it until the day they're 6' under STILL waiting on yet another failed and fallen false prophesy.

He said: " the end of the world) is coming any moment to *fix* their internal crimes".

I said: That is not part of their belief, nor has it ever been. Referring to his last comment. It has no place in their beliefs.

thats because they think they are the chosen ones and can do no wrong...

i see what u r saying ASKNRECIEVE....and i know exactly what you are talking about. but dont be so harsh. i think many of them dont really know the earlier doctrines as what u are referring but they have changed alot since the beginning when their religion was being born in a sense by Russel and a few others. but they keep changing because they keep learning and they try to fix earlier mistakes...tho i wouldnt say its so much as a brainwashing deal as a protection. as i mentioned earlier, the way they run things is protection from doin bad things.

You have a valid point about tort reform I hear you!

Listen back,in this case the jury awarded punitive $21 million plus $1.00 (that's right one dollar) the significance is that they used this symbolic tactic to protect the award from appeal attack.It is rumored the jurors wanted to make it $100 MILLION.They did this because they found the plaintiffs the Watchtower Jehovah's Witnesses egregious and malicious.

Moreover the wealthy Watchtower has up to $200 billion in mosly tax free worldwide real estate assets.

You say that now but if someone hit your car and put your kid in a hospital for year and years of pain and suffering...trust me then you won't want to hear about caps on damages...

As long as we continue to elect lawyers to make our laws it will only get worse. They certainly aren't going to kill the golden goose.

Lawyers don't write our laws - lobbyists do.

What struck me is how the Jehovah's Witnesses' attorney couldn't understand the verdict? He acts like Watchtower was so far removed and the actual perp was merely a congregation member. The article said he was in a leadership position, which gave him a higher stature in the church - authority and possibly unsupervised access to children. Watchtower knew his past and failed to disclose it to prevent this horrible crime.

Applying dollar amounts to someone's pain and suffering - past, present and future - is difficult at best, and can vary jury to jury, case to case. The damage award MUST hurt the responsible party, and if Watchtower was wroth $200 billion, how could $10K make an impact?

What struck me is how the Jehovah's Witnesses' attorney couldn't understand the verdict? He acts like Watchtower was so far removed and the actual perp was merely a congregation member. The article said he was in a leadership position, which gave him a higher stature in the church - authority and possibly unsupervised access to children. Watchtower knew his past and failed to disclose it to prevent this horrible crime.

As someone with family in this religion and having been associated with them for a long time, as far as I know "disciplinary" actions are secretive. They will not go broadcasting every crime someone has committed and the resulting discipline (although you will know something is going on). What IS the policy is that when someone is seriously disciplined, everyone is forbidden from contacting them unless you are an immediate family member and it's necessary.

Now if in this case this guy was an abuser and admitted it, and expressed repentance (and probably involved in some sort of ongoing counseling) , I could see them taking his word for it...and not really grounds for serious discipline and definitely not a reason to broadcast it to the congregation since it was being handled. That he repeated...well maybe they should have been seen the future? So, I think this is a good old fashioned witch hunt. They are not exactly the most popular of religious groups.

So a church, hospital or corporation that has 500 million in assets should be punished by what a 10K fine? Not much of a punishment. What about one that has 6 billion? Fining them a small amount won't even get there attention. Not clear on the word "punitive" are you? It means to punish.

Two words, you're wrong. Torts need to have a severe penalty available, especially in cases like this. There have been many cases where people decided to accept the occassional hit, figuring it would be cheaper than fixing the problem. Ford Motor Company did this many years ago with a gas filling pipe running too close to electric wiring, that resulted in fires killing people. They did the math, and decided not to fix it. But, an internal memo proved they did just that deliberately. The punitive damages was the only thing that made them change this error, which they were fully aware of. If you unwittingly make a mistake that causes bodily harm, but there was no way you could have known about the problem, you should just have to pay the actual damages, including the lawyers fees, if you take it to court. If you should have known, but there's no proof that you did, You shouild only be liable for a reasonable, not very high, amount ofpuitive damages. But, when you knowingly refused to fix a problem because you think it's too expensive to fix it, heavy punitive damages are in order. In the infamous McDonalds case, I don't think they should have been liable. However, the amount the woman actually recieved was a small fraction of the original award.

hi Emanuel,

I think what people tend to forget that something as serious as child abuse, is not a "religious" issue. There was no witch hunt here. I also have been surrounded by this religion, and know the in's and out's of it. If a person repents, it's between him an God - but, this person molested a little girl...and if ANYBODY knew about what was happening to this child (a parent, a neighbor, a teacher, an elder or pastor) - it should NOT be kept a secret. Child abuse is a crime, plain and simple - and if you are aware of the crime and keep silent, you are an accomplice to it.

If you cap awards, then how do you make corporations listen to the verdict? It's easy for most corporations to pay a million or two then pass the cost onto the consumers (ie the rest of us) and still continue their dangerous practices. As long as it's more profitable for them to ignore the law than to pay settlements then law suits are useless when it comes to changing bad behavior.

The only Watchtower I want to hear from is Jimi Hendrix.

It is not true that those who have the responsibility towards such matters keep it secret. In fact, they are obligated to contact the authorities and child protective services. And they honor and do this. If an individual has an appointed position, he is immediately removed from that position. He loses privileges, and they support the victim. Even if a person was a pedophile, molester, etc, prior to becoming a Jehovah's Witness, he may not be able to qualify to reach out for office of oversight, such as an elder, etc. They take this matter very serious, and they do receive instructions from Governing body on how to handle such matters so as to protect the congregation and avoid bringing reproach upon the organization, and our God, Jehovah.

It is sad how JW apologists are so quick to make judgments without taking time to consider the facts first. The official court documents are available at
Click on the “Case Summary” link and enter case number HG11558324

The local elders knew the culprit was a pedophile two years before he raped the plaintiff. He confessed to them that he had molested his step-daughter. They did not report him to the police. They removed him from serving as a MS but did nothing to protect the congregation form a sexual predator. The plaintiff would not have been attacked multiple times over a period of more than a year if they had taken appropriate action.

In keeping his crime secret they were acting in line with a confidential letter from the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses to all Bodies of Elders worldwide on July 1 1989. It can be viewed in the court documents online. I was an elder in 1989 and I remember the letter and the elders school that explained the policy at that time. The policy of secrecy outlined in the letter remains in place.

Elders will only act on an allegation of child sex abuse if there are two witnesses to the allegation - an impossible requirement. They will only report it to the authorities if the law of the country of state demands it. This policy has been confirmed in the latest Elders manual.

This is why the culprit, the local congregation and the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York were all named in the lawsuit.

All of the above facts are no in dispute as you will see if you check the court records.

At last there is nowhere to hide from the truth about "the truth".

Sky's the limit against these un-taxed pedophiles and rightfully so.

Never too late to begin taxing the living @!$%# out of these organized criminals preying on cyclical ignorance.

That's funny! It's a crying shame that the situation is a crying shame. I hope the judgement stands.

MicheleM1958

ok obviously u dont know crap about witnesses dude. get ur facts straight before typing crap like that becuz u are waaaaaay off.

Um, no it isn't a big difference. They are Christian because they think God Died for their sins. Not all Christian sects believe in the Trinity either, chief.

Also they are just as stupid as the rest of you, but put more work in for their stupidity.

@MicheleM1958

Just so you know, Jehovah's Witness is NOT a Christian denomination. They may tell you they are, but they are NOT. They believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael, the highest created being. Christians believe that Jesus is God, along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. There's a BIG difference!!!!

Wow. Those Jehovah's witnesses are lunatics. They believe that Jesus was the archangel, Michael, the highest created being. That just sounds insane. How could anyone be fooled into believing such illogical nonsense? Everyone knows that Jesus was not an archangel. Jesus is one third of the God triangle, including Jesus, Father God, and Spirit God. Those Jehovah's witnesses must be very weak minded to so easily accept such fantasies. Not like us Christians!

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

Delusions of self serving fantasies is a treatable disease.

Just so you know, Jehovah's Witness is NOT a Christian denomination.

While I disagree with their stance, the JW's are just as much "Christians" as anyone else who claims to be a "Christian".

Historically, there were many, many different versions of Christians (look up the Gnostics some time). Just so happens, the Catholic church wanted control and decided that every other version of Christianity was heresy. Then they went and killed all the "heritics" and destroyed all the writings they could find that disagreed with their viewpoint.

To this day, not even every "Christian" agrees with the concept of the trinity or transubstantiation either.

Actually, the belief is that Jesus is the son of God. God is the Father, and the Holy Spirit is God's active force. It is sad, ugly and unfortunate that this happened. Each circumstance is different in these cases no matter what religion is involved. My hope is that the plaintiff finds some peace and that the accused receives the punishment he deserves.

FYI we believe that Jehovah God is the father, Jesus Christ is his son (First Angel created in heaven) and that the Holy Spirit is the power they work through to accomplish things!!! WE DO NOT OR EVER WILL BELIEVE IN OR TEACH THE TRINITY, because it is a distortion and a lie that is taught by Babylon the Great to confuse the masses and keep them in control. Yes, he is Michael the Archangel, which is one of his names and roles next to his father in heaven. You also may think we oversimplify their relationship, but the WORLD makes it too complicated, not relatable and thus not personable to each one of us. So many religions of the WORLD say God's name and purposes are a mystery and you can't speak it or know it, which again is taught to control and confuse the masses. If you and I have a name, wouldn't it make sense that the most important being in the universe, which most call by God, Lord or a Trinity, would have a personal name as well? If that alone confuses you, it is no wonder why the majority of the WORLD are in spiritual darkness!!!

#6.6 sounds like "I'm okay, it's the rest of the world that's insane!" LOL

As a Witness I must tell you that what you wrote is COMPLETELY wrong. For the record, we believe that Jesus is God's son, which he himself acknowledged clearly in many places of the Bible. That is why Jesus always referred to the Father (his father) and himself ALWAYS as the Son. But you are correct other religions crazily believe that the three separate entities are ONE. Jehovah, Jesus, are two individuals with two different names, why in the world would people actually believe they are just one person. And you think that we are nuts?????

kingofzed: if one does not obey the entire bible, then no they are not Christians, and yes they believe that Jesus was an angel, Jesus is God because the bible says so, and if you havent even began the first step of repententing then whats the use, first we need to repent and then be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of our sins and then everything else falls in to place,! And btw. I am not trinity, We sing a little song at our church, it goes like this: He's God in the Father, He's God in the Son, He's God in the Holy Ghost and all these three are one. Whatsoever you do in word or deed, do all in the Name of Jesus. (baptizm that is)

Sounds like your version of the Doxology (below)

Praise God, from Whom all blessings flow;
Praise Him, all creatures here below;
Praise Him above, ye heavenly host;
Praise Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

But this statement is not true ...

... if one does not obey the entire bible, then no they are not Christians

The matter is quite simple. If you say you are a Christian, then you ARE a Christian. Not all Christians believe exactly as you do ... and there are many more religious writings out there regarding Christ and his disciples than appear in the standardized version of the Bible.

In fact, even "standard" Bibles are different. The Catholic one has 73 books, the Protestant one only 66.

Just curious ... do YOU obey the entire Bible?? I very much doubt it.

you are wrong with your understanding of who Jesus is then. Apparently, you have never really read the Bible, or know what Jehovah's Witnesses believe.

@Retroman & @ M-553496, it doesnt matter what makes God, God - the fact is, if you are not protecting children from being harmed and covering for those that seek to harm children - then that's wrong. Stop knocking on peoples doors on Saturday morning, telling them to change their lives for the better until you clean up your own house and get rid of policies that put children, the most precious things in God's eyes, in constant danger each time they come into your houses of worship.

@suseq1591

Even the catholic church admits that stories in the bible are just that... STORIES...

They even change the rules too, just like every denomination has done when they broke from the parent.

And you still haven't even gotten to the actual version of the 'bible' that you're talking about, since a lot of the early writings (Nag Hamada) were intentionally destroyed by the catholic church.

Okay, at this point, I am afraid of all organized religion. Each one seems to make up their own rules as they see fit... I disagree with errant JW members being kicked out of the organization and their family forced to cut contact with them. I think it would be more appropriate and kind to counsel these people instead. BUT, I do think that the Jehovah's Witness religion does have some valid points. Really, God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are all one entity? Come on, that has exactly zero logic. Why? Jesus prayed to God. Why would God pray to himself? Wouldn't you think that would be unnecessary? If you wish to argue, please do explain why you believe this to be less than ludicrous. You might also try pointing to evidence.

Hey Mr.Clarke, why don't you change your post a little ..it's boring re reading it over and over !!

You might also try pointing to evidence.

Well now, there's a problem. See that's the thing about religion, there IS no evidence. It's strictly on what you want to believe. Thus my statements above. If you believe you're a Christian, and say you're a Christian ... you're a Christian.

My daughter in law was a JW (her parents still are). When she and my son got married they wanted a non denominational ceremony to accommodate both sides of the family. At the reception my sister was asked to do a blessing of the food. I looked up and the brides mother had her lip stuck out to kingdom come and had the nerve to be angry. Now my family sat through weeks and weeks of this woman calling our religion a "cult" but the minute someone did something she did not approve of ........ wow.

(btw my sister and I paid for the majority of the wedding)

MicheleM1958

"Just so you know, Jehovah's Witness is NOT a Christian denomination. They may tell you they are, but they are NOT. They believe that Jesus is the archangel Michael, the highest created being. Christians believe that Jesus is God, along with God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. There's a BIG difference!!!!"

Not sure where you get your misinformation from. But you are that - misinformed. Jehovah's Witness are Christians. They also know Jesus to be the begotten son of God. And God' name being *Jehovah. That name distinguishes him from all the false gods that are being served.

*(Psalms 83:18 -That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah,You alone are the Most High over all the earth). Yes, if you have a Bible, you will find it in yours, too. It doesn't say that Jesus is the most high over all the world. In fact all that Jesus did, and does, he gives credit to his FATHER, Jehovah. And all things are made possible through Jehovah's Holy Spirit.

Notice the difference?

No, Renee, Jehovah's

Witnesses are NOT Christian. That's why they call themselves Jehovah's Witnesses. If they were Christian they'd call themselves Christ's Witnesses. FYI, you worship the old testament god, the mean one, the vindictive one, the judgmental one, the hateful one and it shows.

JW literature is full of contempt for all modern Christian religions. In fact, JWs believe Satan controls all Christian churches.

JWs openly despise all other denominations claiming to be Christian.

It's part of the nasty little mind control that makes JWs a cult---the continual harangue that a "battle" is being fought--the continual hypervigilence.

To live daily as a "good" JW is to live everyday in fear--fear of others, fear of self, fear of inadequacy.

Christ came to replace those fears---perfect love casts fear outside--but JWs LOVE being afraid.

It's what makes them so remarkably sick-o.

I'll try to explain the Trinity in a way that is understandable. It is hard to grasp, I understand, but bare with me.

TIME SPACE MATTER

These are three forms of trinity in the world we know. Time has 3 parts (Past, Present, Future). So does space (Height, Width, Depth). Matter, at a basic level, also has 3 (Solid, Liquid, Gas).

There are three distinct parts to each of these. In time for example, there is past present and future. However, they all share the same nature: time

It is the same with the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit: 3 distinct and individual parts, one God.

TIME SPACE MATTER

translation:

if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullspit

I told them my gun was loaded and if they didn't leave I would sic my dog on them.

They left in a hurry.

I told them to come back at midnight as our honored guests for the sacrifice. Afterward, they never knocked on my door again, they even crossed the street instead of walking on the sidewalk in front of our house.

I've always been in favor of using Jehovah's Witlesses to reduce the deficit. Give them bags to hold their Watchtowers and then let them deliver the U.S. mail as well.

I always tell them that my best friend growing up was a JW, and since we agreed to disagree, I do not agree with their beliefs. I would, however, take a Watchtower, if they wanted to give me one. They usually don't because they will be needing them for people that are born every minute.

Telling them you're Mormon gets them running away faster than any handgun!

@willow...they don't make any money "selling" watchtowers door to door...and if you asked them for one because you didn't have the fifty cents to buy it...they would give it to you...i don't believe your story

three, just because they're not asking for money doesn't mean they're not selling something. They're selling their religion and the cost is your ability to reason.

I beg to differ, they actually would be reasoning for the first time, since most religions don't use or try to help their members to understand it, so they can apply it in their own life.

I agree Retroman. I was raised Southern Baptist, but I always had a problem with the whole spirit leaving the body when dead thing. I also had an issue with the Trinity. It just didn't make sense. My trying to make sense of these things that didn't make sense has had me ignored and labeled as an idiot by those who can't tell me why these things make sense. I do believe in God, even though the idea that he came from nothing, even though that makes no sense, but let's face it, nobody else has come up with a less crazy idea for us being here. The ideas presented by cosmologists like Stephen Hawking make about as much sense as God, and their explanation for the universe sounds a bit like the Bible's explanation, only the writers of the Bible didn't have all the cool scientific instruments that the physicists do.....sooooo, I believe in God. I further think that in spite of the disagreements I have with the JW religion, they make the most sense logically overall.

Have a King James bible handy ... open to most any passage. A Cross and rosary beads. Get some of the novena cards and the next time they show up at the door, you do some converting of your own. That tends to make them leave in a hurry.

I know that you are offering me something and if I feel the need I will come looking for you. But until then, LEAVE MY DAMN DOOR ALONE ON SATURDAY MORNINGS, I WORK ALL WEEK I WANT TO SLEEP ON SATURDAY!!! M'KAY

TiredVoter-951582

Have a King James bible handy ... open to most any passage. A Cross and rosary beads. Get some of the novena cards and the next time they show up at the door, you do some converting of your own. That tends to make them leave in a hurry.

I know that you are offering me something and if I feel the need I will come looking for you. But until then, LEAVE MY DAMN DOOR ALONE ON SATURDAY MORNINGS, I WORK ALL WEEK I WANT TO SLEEP ON SATURDAY!!! M'KAY

Really? You think the threat of your open King James version of the Bible makes them leave in a hurry? Then it is fairly obvious that has never happened to you!

And IF what you have is so great, and something you feel strongly about, WHY are you keeping it to yourself and not out sharing it?

Oh, and in regards to sleeping in on Saturdays? What a waste. The time will come when you will get to sleep a LONG time. /winks

Food for thought!

Sorry person. but yes it has!! As a matter of fact just a few weekends ago I did the same damn thing and they could not get AWAY from my door fast enough.

Guess what I know what I am smelling and I am not buying what you are selling so leave me the hell alone!!!

Food for thought! I get up at 5 am Five days a week. I work so that myself and others may live, see I have no problem with my tax dollars going to those less fortunate ( I just want the less fortunate to make sure they do better so that they can help the next person in line) I do not worry about that long sleep to come because I know it will come one day, but in the meantime and in between time I will do as I DAMN WELL PLEASE and know that my relationship with my Lord and Savior is just fine. I do NOT need to "share" my faith with anyone else, because I am of the belief that I am not going to IMPOSE my beliefs on you and you do not try to do the same to me. If you show up at my door and I say no, then NO means just that NO. Do not stick your tracks in my hand or try to weasel your way into my door. I can't stop at least one of you from coming in because it is my daughter in laws Mother, but I can damn well stop the rest of you. Maybe I should just get out my guns and greet them that way? Is that what you would like? Because I can go HAM if that is what it is going to take!

Oh Happy Birthday, Merry Christmas, Happy Easter, Happy Thanksgiving and any other Happy Holiday I chose/wish to celebrate!!

Vinny, I know of what you speak. My cousin died screaming in agony of untreated cancer for weeks. My mother and I tried to get her to go to a doctor, take pain pills or anything for years, but she would not listen. She wore glasses but that was her only concession to something "medical." Why they have survived for so long I will never understand.

Gina your comment is insane. They take medical treatment but no blood transfusions. Now you may want to call that insane and perhaps that is vaild. But the rest you are making up.

My best friend forever was a JW as a young Mother, married to another JW. We agreed on one thing. I never did believe in Hell, and the JWs believe that the bad people, burglars, etc. will burn in fire and sulphur, meaning they are not allowed in the tombs, but will be burned in a potter's field. Other than that, we didn't agree on much. She wanted to divorce her husband, and the JW group told her she couldn't. "Watch me." she divorced him, and went back to Catholic for awhile, enjoying the festivities, etc. Now she has become some sort of Evangelical Christian. I think some people need a strong hand of guidance (nice way of saying it). They need something to believe in strongly.

I actually worked in a nursing home as a nurse, with several residents that were JW. One very strident JW little old lady in a wheelchair, came huffing up to me , all curious. she said, "I just read that Christians don't believe Jesus was born on December 25???" I said, "That's true. We don't know the definite date, so they just picked a date so everybody could agree on it." She was dumbfounded. "They did?" She said that her entire life, she believed that other religious groups were all wrong because they believed that Jesus definitely was born on Dec. 25th. I told her that, "No, they are thinking that it was actually some time in January, because that was when that comet went overhead, and they went to their hometown to be counted on the rolls, and pay taxes. " She had grown up imagining all the wrong things Christians had done. LOL. It was nice to be on the astounding side for once. lol

As an X-JW, I will attest to Vince-1 statement, very well put and all TRUE

I was in for years, I view those years as a curse, my step-father was an elder and later a circuit overseer, he was as evil as any man could be. My finally leaving in my early 30's cost me all contact with my alleged family, but since then my life is as good as it gets.

Please folks, this group is as corrupt as they get, just brain washing at it its best. they got what they deserved, and as for sexual abuse, my step-brother started on me when I was four, (and covered up by the JW's elders) statue of limitations ran out when I finally woke up, wish I had had went after them sooner, maybe I could have saved this lady her experience.

sorry willow i don't know what you are talking about. JWs believe that hell is the common grave. when you are dead you are dead forever, or until God resurrects you. there is no fiery place of torment for the bad people. they just die.

Vinny, You must be an Ex-JW that is pissed off at them, Your facts are so wrong, but that's how people make them look bad by spreading false rumors without the correct facts, i'm not a JW, but a very good friend of mine is, they are very good people that try to follow the bible and lead good clean lives, but because they don't do what everyone else in society does they are labeled "a cult" while i don't agree with many of their beliefs from what i have seen they are good honest people and almost everytime you hear something bad about them or something else its usually the ex-disgruntled members that will do everything they can to make it sound as horrible or worst then it usually is so they will create a website or something to do nothing but trash them. if they come to my door i'm polite and tell them no thank you and they have even told me that if wanted they will put me on a do not call list and respect my privacy. its people like you Vinnie who amy have been wronged by them that gives society a bad name. get a life!

JW's brainwashed my dad. I could embellish things and say they killed him by denying life saving surgery with their "no blood" rule. My brother, sister, and their spouses won't talk to me because I'm not a JW. They told lies to other branches of the family who mysteriously stopped talking to the non-JW members they have an issue with. Whenever anybody in the family dies, though, they mysteriously come out of the woodwork to see if any financial gain is to be made. On top of all that, they conveniently change their rules to suit whatever they want and always have some lame excuse as to why they can break any particular rule at a given time. "I thought you weren't supposed to drink." "Well, we can when blah, blah, blah" It's like that with everything.

Sad thing is...the more you throw out there to contradict them or prove them wrong the more reassured they are in themselves because they just take it as a sign that they are right and "evil" is doing all it can to fight against "the truth".

The truth is that they are a cult.

I too at one time was involved with the JW faith. Before that I was a Catholic... Currently I practice no religion other than always believing in The Almighty God. This abuse of this young girl can happen in any faith and any religion- it is sad and unforgiveable and the perpetrator/and others that stood by and knew yet still did nothing should all be held accountable. Perverts and abusers will always be in our midst and we need to protect our children as best we can from these monsters. I am sure the police are looking into his past more and I'm sure we will hear more about this sad case beacause I'm sure she is not the only one. These perverts are not ever cured and always re-offend. Put his butt in jail and throw away the key. He will find out what it feels like to be raped and abused. This should be his punishment!!

Get over yourself, you are the one who has the attitude and heart issue to begin with, since you don't want to adjust that attitude, you will just sit there and continue to bad mouth to suit your own selfish purpose. The further you go, the more apostate you become!!! Don't you know that the first part of your rant, actually has proven what valuable stands J.W.'s take?

Valuable stands such as lying and turning your back on family??? Yeah, such a nice upstanding organization you have there.

enough already Mr Clark!!!!!

Thanks Jean ...... Mr Clarke is a bit repetitive isn't he?

Hi Vince I was a witness for a little over 20 years, everything you say is true, however, it's difficult to rebel when everyone you know is a witness, you have little contact with "worldly people" so you just comply. I always had a few problems with some of the teachings but I loved my husband, most of my family were Jehovah's Witnesses, two of my brothers were and still are elders. Two years after the death of my husband I just could not take it anymore (long story) and wrote a letter of resignation. Doing this saves you the embarrassment of having to confess your sins to as many as six elders, it's really sickening. Little did I know I had committed the unforgivable sin or something because I chose my own course instead of letting them discipline me. I have now been an ex JW for 24 years, I have never looked back and the occasional contact with my very, very strict JW (married and divorced three times to brothers in the congregation) sister, only validates my decision.

Vince_1

"When I became one in 1990 there was no internet then" There was no real means of examining this religion from all sides as you can now, today.

Thank goodness, for you, that technology came along to think and make your decisions for you. Life must have been hard.

Yep because now people like Renee can try to "convert" online. You have no right to believe or not believe. You only have a right to stand in the doorway of someplace that YOU pay for and have people try to cram their religion down your throat.

Open wide and say JEHOVAH!!

TiredVoter

Open wide and say JEHOVAH!!

That might quite well be the most intelligent thing you have written.

Rest well...

Thank goodness, for you, that technology came along to think and make your decisions for you.

Humans, i.e. religious leaders, are just as fallible as the internet. Technology actually provides information and allows people to see beyond their limited worldview.

sad thing is, person who called vince a liar, is that he isnt lying. u can find all the stuff he talkd about in the watchtower library that witnesses have on disc. im actually a witness and was studying our magazines when i looked up older stuff on there and found it all. they do admit they were wrong on things but its made it hard for me now that i know how flawed they were at first.

coming to the door with a bottle of Jack yelling and sigging the doberman on them works also... Just say'n...

I've found this to work pretty well: Answer the door politely, and then say "I'm a Sun worshipper. I don't need to come to God. He comes to me .... every morning."

Another is to tell them that you are bathed in the blood of the lamb. That has something to do with their distrust of blood donation. And Evangelicals would say something like that.

It's even better to tell them that you have been "disfellowshipped" and that THEY can be disfellowshipped by even talking to you! :)

what works for me is to have a no trespassing sign at the edge of our driveway. can't keep my mom away, but she's my mom so i deal with it. no one's family is perfect.

The best way to shut them up when they come knocking is to ask them, since they consider themselves the only true religion, why don't they have any soup kitchens are something similar set up to help people. Then say since you're showing your Christian love this morning by knocking on my door, I think even more Christian love can be shown by helping those in need. They won't know what to say after that, they'll probably open their Bible and look for a few scriptures, then ask you if want to study, but you will DEFINITELY not get an answer if you ask them about why they don't help the needy. After all you can't eat a Watchtower or Awake magazine, which they consider helping the needy !!

Jehovah is the only one who can fix all of mankinds problems, doing what you are suggesting is just a band-aid!

everyone please not that retroman is a JW, that is why he gave such a shallow response that helping the needy is a band aid !

Here is how I solve my JW problem:

1. They come knocking.
2. I jump from my roof with a fake knife.
3. I run at them screaming like the lunatic that I am.
4. BONUS POINTS: They void themselves in their pants.
5. They run.
6. ???
7. PROFIT!

I never see them again! Works great for all sorts of pesky people!

...That is till the cops come.

Darnit Retroman, please don't tell me that you don't see the value to help people in need. Is this what I am seeing? Do the JWs actually not help those in need?

I think these JWs change the bible to suit their needs or wants ..how can they claim to be a christian when they won't raise a finger to help anyone but themselves ...sounds like a religion of the GOP...

Johnm ...

Not defending the JWs, BUT ... they are certainly not the only ones to change the Bible to suite their wants and needs. That's been going on every since they got together for the first time and picked the books in the mid fourth century.

denver bill 2

I've found this to work pretty well: Answer the door politely, and then say "I'm a Sun worshipper. I don't need to come to God. He comes to me .... every morning."

Nah, it didn't work for you. They just choice not to waste anyone time on you.

Renee - Northern CA

They just choice not to waste anyone time on you.

I will be happy to discuss your criticism as soon as you learn to express it in English.

Out of curiousity I once let a pair of JW's in for a chat. They did not stay long. I asked them why they didn't help the poor or protect the environment and they asked me if I would stay in my house if it was on fire. I told them that if my house was on fire I'd call the fire department and have them put out the fire, not just stand around and watch it burn. I then asked why I would want to join a religion that had more members than it promised salvation and why they'd want me to join and statistically lower their odds. While they mulled that over I pointed out several scientific inaccuracies in the Awake! they'd given me and they left quickly.

I'm Catholic, so I can happily tell them that I drink the blood of Jesus on a weekly basis.

The JW's are not the only self proclaiming religion as "the true church". The Latter Day Saints (mormons) also teach that and don't want their youth to question. I was raised around them and went to school (about 5% non-lds).

I went to RCIA classes ( How to become a Catholic 101) and the Priest, who was and still is a very cool guy, who almost left the Church before Vatican 2, then thought he'd stick around to see if anything had changed, but since it didn't, he left the priesthood and became a College Professor). He said several times, "Be wary of ANYONE that says they alone know the right way to God." He says anyone that professes to be the one who knows it all, and the rest are going to Hell is a person to get far far away from. I believe its true of LDS, JWs, Catholics, Pentacostals, etc. There is no one way to God. There are many many ways.

Being LDS, I can at least clarify the Mormon point of view.

Faith, hope and charity. We believe greatest of these is charity. According to Mormon doctrine all those who have worked to do what is right, tried to draw closer to Christ, and helped uplift those around them cannot be denied their earned right for Heaven regardless of their religion. We believe that certain sacraments are required to do so, which is why we believe in baptism for the dead. The person then has the option to choose if they wish to accept them (it does not make them Mormon, and is not counted as membership in the church). We believe that the purpose for the millennium (which we believe will happen after the Second Coming) is to complete this for all those who have been on the earth, allowing all mankind the opportunity to receive what they are entitled to.

We do believe that we are the restored church as Christ established, and we believe that we are the only church that has a fullness of that gospel, as well as the proper authority of priesthood keys on the earth. For example, I can trace my priesthood keys back to Joseph Smith who we believe received them from Peter, James, and John, who in turn received them from Christ.

You don't have to believe any of these things, and I'm not trying to convince you otherwise. This is just our beliefs. For some odd reason this comment is going to be followed by a bunch trying to tell you that we don't believe these things or some other random misrepresented note. You can believe those if you want. It's no skin off my back.

Who are the ones lying? Look in the mirror and all of Babylon the Great!

Dear Dromidaon... After being sexually abused by a family 'friend' as a child I turned to a therapist to help me resolve my feelings of anguish at being an unprotected child. It turned out that this Therapist was a member of the LDS. He 'groomed' me as most sexual predators do and eventually abused me also. I finally found the courage to tell someone and justice was brought forth. He lied over and over in court depositions yet truth won out and he lost. As far as his "Mormon doctrines'- faith- hope-charity- and his priesthood keys- he left them somewhere along with his 'special underwear' when he was about to abuse me. Go away with your 'Mormon Specialness' ---

Determined non-Christians can disagree all they want, I will not bother getting into that particular debate. All I'm going to say is this:

Jesus is the One Way to God. However, Willow, I agree with you on the rest, in that no MAN knows it all, and that no single MAN is the only one who knows the right way to God. Therefore, no single church is the "right" church, since all are made up of men (and women, for the PC crowd) who are imperfect. Even the head of a church is a far-from-perfect sinner.

That being said, I have to agree that JW and LDS both qualify as cults. I personally don't like the way the Catholics do things, but since I, too, am imperfect, I can only state that as an opinion. We will know the truth when it's time for us to know it. Meanwhile, as I see it, all we can do is our best. That best should include the commandments of Jesus: love God, and love your neighbor as yourself. If you understand that, and can live up to that, you should be ok. Again, that's my opinion based on what I've learned.

Jean Marie, I'm sorry to hear about that. I believe that a good person is a good person regardless of what faith they are, and I also believe that a bad person is still a bad person regardless of what faith they are in, Mormons included.

I'm glad that justice system worked, though I believe that people like this have much worse coming for them.

As far as my faith goes, we believe that men will be judged for both their works and their faith. Some of the worst acts of mankind were done by those with faith. We believe that faith is not a get out of sin free card. We believe that the priesthood keys can only be used in love and kindness, and that a person who abuses them or tries to use them for coercion will be held much more responsible than if they did not have them. (This is in our D&C 121:36-37)

@ Dromidaon: I feel compelled to point you to Romans 3:10-11: "As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one. There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God." Christ did not lie. Nobody "earns" the "right" to get into the Kingdom of Heaven. We are forgiven and allowed in by God's grace and the fact that Christ paid the price for our sins, and for no other reason. In that, I should also point to Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."

We actually believe most of that too. The way I'm summarizing is causing confusion.

We believe that we cannot enter into the Kingdom of Heaven without the grace of God. We believe that no one is perfect and requires the atonement of Christ to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven. We believe that this is a gift of God, and not of our own doing, and will affect all mankind. We also believe that no man can fully understand the atonement of Christ. The difference is that we believe that works still directly affects your judgment. We usually quote James 2:14-16.

Catholics believe they are the truest church (though who doesn't). They still believe other churches have truth in their teachings.

Over 5,000 priests since 1950 in the United States had been documented to be abusers.

Perhaps, Robbie, but consider per capita offenses and the fact that the Watchtower was better at keeping their cases quiet. Emphasis on the WAS.

Worse. The Catholic priests aren't sent door to door.

I used to work in a convent nursing home, and there are many MANY sisters that have some major guilt things going on, from childhood, I am sure. they will say, "I am dirty. Please don't touch me, you will catch it." etc. One that wraps herself in toilet paper at night, so no one will catch her dirtiness. I think that before the Evangelicals got so popular, the Catholics were the major guilt inducers, for homosexuals, pedophiles, etc. The guilt was so bad, that they thought (and hoped ) that becoming a celibate would take away the urges. Because I know of several homosexual priests, that live Tues through Friday with their partner, then go back to their Parish for Sat thru Mon. I don't personally know any pedophile priests, but I would imagine they lived with enormous guilt, maybe even being molested by THEIR own priests as children. So they think their problems will all be solved if they pray enough and they are celibate. One of these "choose to be straight" ideas. Then they get into the Priesthood or the Convent, and find out that they didn't escape their feelings, and as the Priesthood gets to be old habits, and not new religious fervor, the older feelings come out. I have no excuse for a pedophile going after children, and I am not equating it with homosexuality, but merely the fact that guilt may cause a lot of different people with that guilt about sex to think that celibacy would be the answer. I know of several priests that are marrying later in life, or leaving the priesthood after 20 or 30 years. I don't know any pedophiles. so please don't misunderstand me to say pedophilia is like homosexuality, because it is not the same thing at all. But guilt can do strange things to people.

I remember my neighbor, on Halloween, she was about 10 and was told to sit at the door, and if someone rang the doorbell for "Trick or Treat." She was not to say anything to them, but to put those little Tracts in their trick or treat bag. Can you imagine? I wonder where she is now, and if she still believes this?

Willow, your neighbor lives on my block now. She'll never run out of toilet paper or eggs thanks to the kids who received tracts from her.

elders don't revolve. you are an elder forever, unless you are told to step down due to wrongdoing--and this wrong doing could be from a person living in your home (so you can spend more time building them up) i know this as i grew up in it from when my mom joined in 1981 until i moved out in 1999.

this has already happened. the Seattle Seahawks are giving a try-out to a guy who was in prison for 5 years for a crime he didn't do. the lady who accused him got millions too.

Exactly Kat. That's like the parents of the boys who spent nights at Michael Jacksons home, and then filed sex abuse charges against him. It was all for money.

So you're saying a few examples justify shutting the whole system down and letting greedy churches keep on abusing children. No one is saying the system is prefect but to say that working 99% of the time is the same as a system that works 0% of the time is just crazy.

So, Janine, what you are saying by stating an award of this type is all for greed. I suppose you also say that one involved in a car accident should also just accept the loss, because to collect for their injuries of have their vehicle repaired or replaced, that is all for greed as well.

Personally, I will leave that to the jurors to decide based upon the evidence provided on each and every particular case. Also nothing like harsh prison sentences and heavy monetary judgments to end such crimes. the US has by far, the greatest number of rapes, pedophilia and sexual molestation in the industrialized world. and the reason for that is that the Us has been a magnet for the most radical religions, almost all of which are like it or not Christian. the pilgrims were kicked out of France, netherlands and England because they were trouble makers and could not get along with others.

Well, I kind of understand where you are coming from, but to clarify - countries that execute for sexual offenses are the islamist countries and they execute the raped woman or girl, not the man doing the raping.

Yes, they execute the woman if she refuses to marry her rapist. Because if she doesn't marry him, she is considered an adulterer. WTF did these people get these ideas?

Well that's NOT the sort of sex laws I support, those 3rd world sexually repressed goat humpers have NO moral compass anyway. I was merely stating the maybe a little punitive extremism properly applied would be a better deterrent.

Yes, the organization does have responsibility. It is because of organizational policy that such terrible crimes against defenseless children can be perpetrated too easily. Jehovah's Witnesses do not approve of such crimes, and almost every JW would be ill to know that such crimes happen to some of their children. But the fact of the matter is, organizational policy of protecting the religion from reproach, waiting on Jehovah, the two-witness rule, punishing the abused for slander for speaking out, allows such things to happen.

All convictions are public record. If you think someone might be a rapist, there's a website.

skyler--you failed to read the part where the guy was a leader in the congregation. there are needs to do background checks when given positions of authority especially over children. unfortunately the JWs don't. but the religion i currently attend does.

you are correct in that background checks are NOT required to attend/be a member.

Skyler, you don't understand.... Prior to the incidents involving the plaintiff of this case, the perpetrator had confessed to Elders that he'd molested another child and he was privately reprimanded, yet no Elders warned the congregation that a sex offender was among them. The man's right to privacy was protected by the elders and Watchtower Society - who were also notified of his offenses - yet he was allowed to mingle with children in the congregation with NO WARNING given to families. And so he ended up molesting another girl, the one who became the plaintiff in this case. Now tell me the elders and WT Society shouldn't be held responsible for neglecting to warn parents.

Timbro, are you making that up? Or is there another article on this?

journal, this sentence was in THIS article, maybe you didn't read it all. 'The lawsuit alleged that Watchtower had a policy that instructed elders in its Jehovah’s Witnesses congregations to keep reports of child sex abusers within the religious group secret to avoid lawsuits.' Which means the elders held onto the information, and didn't make them public, not only to their congregations, but ALSO kept the information from the public in general. THAT makes the 'Church' liable under civil law. Period.

journal, I didn't get my news from this article. I was just glad to see it finally hit mainstream news. There was a trial and there are COURT DOCUMENTS on an official gov website. Check it out if you want the facts.

@journal journal - It says in the article above that he had recently been convicted of sexual abuse, but this was kept secret from the congregation and then he "went on to molest the plaintiff."

I know this happens because one day in our previous congregation (we are no longer JWs), we sat on the same row by a new member of the congregation with our five-year-old daughter sitting right next to him. After a while, he takes a picture of a horse out of his bible and shows it to our daughter and smiles at her. We thought nothing of it until we get home and a friend calls us to inform us that he is a convicted child molester. The congregation was never informed. No elder told us to be careful with our children around him. We certainly never would have placed our daughter in the seat next to him.

The jury found that the elders who managed the Fremont congregation in the 1990s and who were under the supervision of Watchtower knew that Kendrick, a member and a congregation leader, had recently been convicted of the sexual abuse of another child, but they kept his past record secret from the congregation, said Simons.

Kendrick went on to molest the plaintiff, who was a Jehovah's Witness member in Fremont, over a two-year period beginning when she was 9 years old, the lawsuit contended.

Growing up as a Jehovah's Witness, I find this story very sad. One, I have NEVER heard of any secrecy policy, and more than half my family are active JWs, some even in the position of elder and such. The entire organization should not be held responsible for the actions of one individual. It could have been Mr. Kendrick who was dishonest, and never disclosed all the details about his transgressions. IF he had disclosed this to the elders, he should have never been put in leadership. JWs believe that no human is perfect, and yes they are not perfect themselves either, but child abuse is NOT something that they would excuse. That would put too many families in a potential bad situation, and is not something that Jehovah approves of. Elders using common sense would immediately put this person out of a position of leadership. It was an extreme error in judgment for them to give him such responsibility, but the elders also do not delegate responsibility without the approval of the heads of the society. Regardless, I would place all responsibility solely on Mr. Kendrick. He is the one who committed the offense.

Unfortunately, there is more and more corruption in the world going on these days, people doing unbelievably evil things, bashing religions and turning away from God, losing faith in anything good. But these things are a sign of things that will be coming to an end. NOBODY knows when the end is, and that is why JWs stopped with the silly predictions. That was in the PAST.

As a former Jehovah's Witness, one born and raised into it without a choice but now freed, I can tell you there are policies of secrecy in the organization. My father was an elder, so I know ALL about how secret their hearings are having watched him writhe in emotional agony for years before going off the deep end himself with all the weight of that secrecy. Just because you don't know about the policies doesn't make the fact that they exist any less true.

Skyler if you really were raised in that faith then you should know that NOTHING is done without the knowledge of the Watchtower Society. The elders KNEW he was a pedophile and chose (per instructions/guidelines of the society) not to warn their congregation. YES they should be held liable.

For that attorney to say this guy was just a rank and file member and not a pastor is BS! He may not have been an Elder or an Overseer (their terms) but if he was baptized in their faith he was considered a minister or ministerial servant. He is just adding insult to injury with his statements. I was married to a Jehovah's Witness for over 20 years. And although most are great people, I do know some congregations tend to "cover up" actions by certain members. My ex was put on what they call "private reproval" when he had sex before marriage. But after beating his wife and threatening his children he was "promoted" to ministerial servant. Since I was the "worldly" one (not baptized as a Jehovah's Witness) then I must have had it coming. So glad to be away from that world. And one reason I steer well clear of any organized religion.

It wasn't a secret. All you have to do is look up the registry.

So true. Perhaps that's why they are being held as only partly responsible for the abuse. It is a shame that if a rank and file member was to look this fellow member up and see that he is a sexual criminal, this rank and file member would risk being disfellowshipped losing their family and a lifetime of friends if he/she shared this information with anyone else. This person would be drug to the "back room" so quick for spreading offensive (no matter how true) information about another member.
Too bad that failure as a human being in a trusted role as a religious leader is not always the same as a criminal failure.
I'm glad she won.

Vinny. When did JW ever say they knew when the rnd was coming? ONLY the father knows. Not even his son Jesus knows. I feel sorry for you when the time comes....

Hey Cheryl, open your eyes. Here are just a few Watchtower Society quotes, on false predictions, throughout their history. Go check with your own bound volumes.

1894 -

"We see no reason for changing the figures - nor would we change them if we could. They are, we believe, God's dates, not ours. But bear in mind that the end of 1914 is not the date of the beginning, but for the end of the time of trouble." (Watchtower, July 15, 1894, p. 266)

1897 -

"Complete destruction of 'the powers that be' of 'this present evil world' - political, financial, ecclesiastical - [will occur] about the close of the 'time of the Gentiles' in October 1914." (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 4, 1897, p. 622)

1902

"In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of 1914." (The Time is at Hand, 1902 edition, p. 99) Note: this same statement was contained in the 1908 edition of the same book.

1904 -

"According to our expectations, the stress of the great time of trouble will be on us soon, somewhere between 1910 and 1912, culminating with the end of the 'Times of the Gentiles' in 1914." (Studies in the Scriptures, vol. 6, 1904, p. 579)

1914-

"And, with the end of A.D. 1914, what God calls Babylon, and what men call Christendom, will have passed away, as is already shown from prophecy." {TKIC 153}

1914 CAME AND WENT......

1915-

The present great war in Europe is the beginning of the Armageddon of the Scriptures (Revelation 19:16-20). It will eventuate in the complete overthrow of all the systems of error which have so long oppressed the people of God and deluded the world. (Pastor Russell's Sermons, 1915, p. 676)

1915-

In view of this strong Bible evidence concerning the Times of the Gentiles, we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God will be accomplished near the end of 1915. (The Time is at Hand, 1915 edition, p. 99)

A year later in 1916, the 1915 date had been forgotten and an attempt was being made to salvage the original date of 1914.

1916-

We see no reason for doubting therefore that the Times of the Gentiles ended in October 1914; and that a few more years will witness their utter collapse and the full establishment of God's Kingdom in the hands of Messiah. (Watchtower Reprints, vol, 6, p. 5950, September 1, 1916)

1918

"Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old, particularly those named by the Apostle in Hebrews 11, to the condition of human perfection." Millions Now Living Will Never Die, page 89.

1922

"The date 1925 is even more distinctly indicated by the Scriptures than 1914." The Watchtower 9/1/22, page 262.

Once again, as with the 1914 date, the revelation was attributed to God.

1922-

This chronology is not of man, but of God. Being of divine origin and divinely corroborated, present-truth chronology stands in a class by itself, absolutely and unqualifiedly correct . . . (Watchtower, July 15, 1922, p. 217)

1923

"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." The Watchtower, page 106 4/1/23.

1925-

"We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of .. 1925.. What further evidence do we need? Using this same measuring line .. it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914." {WT May 15 1922 150}

1925-

"The year 1925 is here. With great expectation Christians have looked forward to this year. Many have confidently expected that all members of the body of Christ will be changed to heavenly glory during this year. This may be accomplished. It may not be. In his own due time God will accomplish his purposes concerning his people. Christians should not be so deeply concerned about what may transpire this year." The Watchtower, 1/1/25, page. 3.

1925

"It is to be expected that Satan will try to inject into the minds of the consecrated, the thought that 1925 should see an end to the work." The Watchtower, Sept, 1925 page 262.

1925-

"After 1925 expect shortly Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob.. No doubt many boys and girls who read this book will live to see Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Daniel, and those other men of old come forth in the glory of their better resurrection, of perfect in mind and body. It will not take long for Christ to appoint them to their post of honor and authority as his earthly representatives. The world and all the present conveniences will seen strange to them at first, but they will soon become accustomed to the new methods. They may have some amusing experiences at first; for they never saw telephones, radios, automobiles, electric lights, aeroplanes, steam engines, and many other things so familiar to us." {TWTP 224-6}

1925

".. about April 1, 1925, at which time we may expect the resurrection of the Ancient Worthies .." {MLND 110}

1925 CAME AND WENT...

1926

"Some anticipated that the work would end in 1925, but the Lord did not state so. The difficulty was that the friends inflated their imaginations beyond reason; and that when their imaginations burst asunder, they were inclined to throw away everything." The Watchtower, page 232.

(AMAZINGLY, THE WATCHTOWER ACTUALLY BLAMES THE JW'S WITH THAT ONE).

BETH-SARIM:

Here are few of the many comments made by the San Diego press when Beth-Sarim first appeared on the scene:

March 15, 1930 San Diego Sun: "San Diego Mansion -- With All Modern Improvements -- Awaits Earthly Return of Prophets."

Jan 9, 1931 San Diego Sun, "David's House Waits for Owner." A reporter asked Rutherford how he thought those ancient men would look and he replied he thought they would arrive in frock coats, high hats, canes and spats!

Perhaps due to the embarrassment of such a ridiculous statement, a year later in 1932, the booklet, "What You Need" showed an illustration of those old prophets in ancient garb. It wasn't the first time JFR would stick his foot in his mouth. Nor was it the last.

This same newspaper article stated that in the garage, "stands a new, yellow 16-cylinder coupe which will be turned over to the rulers along with all the personal property of the place."

(The end never came, the "ancient worthies" never resurrected and Beth-Sarim was quietly sold in 1947.)

1931

"There was a measure of disappointment on the part of Jehovah's faithful ones on earth concerning the years 1917, 1918, and 1925, which disappointment lasted for a time...and they also learned to quit fixing dates." Vindication, page 338.

1940 -

"The year 1940 is certain to be the most important year yet because Armageddon is very near." (Informant, April 1940, p. 1)

1941

"Receiving the gift, the marching children clasped it to them, not a toy or plaything for idle pleasure, but the Lord's provided instrument for most effective work in the remaining (((months))) before Armageddon." The Watchtower, 9/15/41, page 288.

1941 -

"Armageddon is surely near . . ." (Children, 1941, p. 366)

1942 -

"Now, with Armageddon immediately before us . . ." (Watchtower, April 1, 1942, p. 139)

1946 -

"The disaster of Armageddon . . . is at the door." (Let God be True, 1946, p. 194)

1955 -

"In the light of the fulfillment of Bible prophecy, it is becoming clear that the war of Armageddon is nearing its breaking-out point." (You May Survive in God's New World, 1955, p. 331)

1966 -

"Armageddon is, in fact, very close indeed." (Watchtower, October 15, 1966, p. 629)

1968

"True, there have been those in times past who predicted an ‘end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The ‘end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?.. Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them." Awake, 10/8/68.

1968

"Why are you looking forward to 1975?" The Watchtower, 8/15/68, page 494.

1975-

"WHY ARE YOU LOOKING FORWARD TO 1975? .. What about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam's creation in the fall of the year 1975, a little over seven years from now .. it will be 6,000 years since the creation of Adam." {WT Aug 15 1968 494}

1975-

Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end. {KMIN May 1974 3}

1975 CAME AND WENT....

then the blame starts again

It may be that some who have been serving God have planned their lives according to a mistaken view of just what was to happen on a certain date or in a certain year. They may have, for this reason, put off or neglected things that they otherwise would have cared for. But they have missed the point of the Bible's warnings concerning the end of this system of things, thinking that Bible chronology reveals the specific date.
Watchtower 7/15/76 pg.440

(AND BELOW IS WHERE THE WT OFFERS TWO WEAK APOLOGIES FOR 1975 FALSE PREDICTIONS)

Watchtower 3/15/80 Choosing the Best Way of Life

"In modern times such eagerness, commendable in itself, has led to attempts at setting dates for the desired liberation from the suffering and troubles that are the lot of persons throughout the earth. With the appearance of the book LifeEverlasting—inFreedomoftheSonsofGod, and its comments as to how appropriate it would be for the millennial reign of Christ to parallel the seventh millennium of man’s existence, considerable expectation was aroused regarding the year 1975. There were statements made then, and thereafter, stressing that this was only a possibility. Unfortunately, however, along with such cautionary information, there were other statements published that implied that such realization of hopes by that year was more of a probability than a mere possibility. It is to be regretted that these latter statements apparently overshadowed the cautionary ones and contributed to a buildup of the expectation already initiated"

and then...

1980 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witneses- Pages 30-31

"The brothers also appreciated the candor of this same talk, [Choosing the Best Way of Life] which acknowledged the Society’s responsibility for some of the disappointment a number felt regarding 1975"

1994-

"It is not reasonable to expect that present favorable conditions for preaching the good news will continue indefinitely Besides, did not Jesus say that this generation will not pass away until all things are fulfilled? A generation, according to Psalm 90:10, is from seventy to eighty years. The generation that witnessed the end of the Gentile Times in 1914 does not have many more years left." {WT Dec 1 1968 715} [1914 + 80 = 1994]

1995-

"Why Awake! is Published .. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." {AWAK for seven and a half years up to Oct 22 1995}

1995-

"Why Awake! is Published .. Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things." {AWAK from Nov 8 1995} [reference to '1914 generation' deleted]

Regarding the turn of the century:

2000-

"The apostle Paul was spearheading the Christian missionary activity. He was also laying a foundation for a work that would be completed in our 20th century." {WT Jan 1 1989 12} [bound volume changed "20th century" to "day"]

2000-

".. there are many indications that 'the end' is much closer than that [the turn of the century]" {WT Mar 1 1984 18-9}

2000-

"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the 'battle in the day of Jehovah' will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." {TNSK 216}

2000-

"For the year 2000, I visualize a world transformed into a beautiful paradise! But I don't think that either the present world or its rulers will live to see that day.. We are living in the last days of the system of things." {AWAK Nov 8 1986 78}

(And there are many more than this after the year 2000).

WAS GOD BEHIND ALL THOSE FALSE DATES?

DID HE PROVIDE BAD FOOD ALL THESE TIMES?

OR WAS IT JUST THE "MEN FROM BROOKLYN" (WT GOVERNING BODY), MAKING THESE FALSE PREDICTIONS AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN, WHILE CLAIMING GOD HAD CHOSEN THEM, AND ONLY THEM, EXCLUSIVELY?

WHEN A GROUP OF MEN GET TOGETHER AND PRAY FOR HOLY SPIRIT, MAKE DECISIONS BASED ON THAT EVENT, PUBLISH THOSE DECISIONS AS FOOD FROM GOD; BUT THEN HAVE THOSE THOSE PUBLISHED DECISIONS NOT COME TRUE, HAVE TO RETRACT THOSE DECISIONS, APOLOGIZE FOR THOSE DECISIONS, ETC ETC... THEN IT PROVES WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT GOD WAS NEVER BEHIND THOSE PUBLISHED DECISIONS AT ALL!

This is just the first part of many that I will post which refute the JW claims that they are God's chosen people and his exclusive channel/organization today.

All the best,

Vinny

Other than the obvious, far-ranging, effects of a judgement like this as an attack on all religion, the other obvious factual error is calling the Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower church a Christian denomination. They are NOT, and would not classify themselves as Christian. They do not, in any way, agree with the tenets of Christianity.

Cheryl - My mother told me the world was ending one year when I was little because it came from the JW congregation she was a part of. She said no one knew when, but it would definitely be sometime that year. Even though I knew it sounded fishy, I was scared for an entire year. I'm 40 now, sooooo, ummm, yeah. Wake up.

Child abuse and institutional cover ups of child abuse, is an international and national crime. This abuse as a crime against Human Rights, humanity and the international Convention on the Rights of the Child, should have a zero tolerance.

However, as the international media have reported, the fact is, that religious institutions have powerful resources to escape trials before a criminal justice court and avoid punitive damages. The media have also reported, that many class actions have succeeded where financial damages have exceeded hundreds of millions of dollars.

Weasel words, weasel semantics and clever criminal lawyers defend negligent organizations. That is part of the legal process in the criminal justice system. The public, parents, and professional experts, need to keep the pressure on politicians and good corporate citizens that a zero tolerance policy is the only acceptable price. Children deserve nothing less.

Words are cheap. Promises and PR are cheap. The facts on the state of play, can be studied from expert opinion in the public domain. For example, the UK human rights lawyer, Geoffrey Robertson, [QC], published the paper back, [2010], ISBN: 978-0-241-95384-6.

" THE CASE OF THE POPE: Vatican Accountability for Human Rights Abuse "

The cited references by Geoffrey Robertson, prove how difficult the road is to mount any effective criminal trial (eg if Canon Law, diplomatic immunity, amongst other institutional trickery).

A large part of the problem lays with religious territorial status for power against "secular" law. We assume too easily, as a given, an axiom, that legislative law in a liberal democracy has all the power it needs to protect children. NOT SO. The lack of transparency is demonstrated by Geoffrey Robertson QC. A must read.

Another source of information on the limits placed by historical "faith", against liberal democratic "secular law" is a site that has, at times, been censored. Therefore, in cryptic form the clues are:

1] type in: " papalencyclicals.net/Greg16/g16mirar "

2] prefix with : ".."

3] end with: " htm "

This powerful document was instrumental in defining what many strict Roman Catholics believed yesterday, and today in challenging the relevance of "secular law". The author was Pope Gregory XVI.

Geoffrey Robinson shows how, in any western, criminal court of justice, these barriers to secular law hold today. Children become victims to "collateral" damage, as the cover up has many layers of non transparent barriers from powerful organizations.

Maybe they just add another date for the world to end whenever they need a few extra bucks ..end of days gets those people digging deeper into their pockets !!

Try reading the context of those quotes....i.e. Nov 8/86 Awake...it was a 15 year old named Samuel that was quoted...speaking about his desires for the future, that is extremely misleading to state it the way you did.

Well, Samuel, get on line because ahead of you will be Dewey, from family guy and myself. Of course, Dewey will let them do it to him for less, much, much less. He is a pedophile's dream child.

Keep hoping. They're not even in the same states. States of mind, possibly.

couldn't be more wrong. they believe only 144,000 get to heaven. reading up on all the doctrine people attribute to them I find so much is wrong. I don't support this group, but I also don't like mischaracterization and lies.

couldn't be more wrong. they believe only 144,000 get to heaven. reading up on all the doctrine people attribute to them I find so much is wrong. I don't support this group, but I also don't like mischaracterization and lies.

JW's doesn't believe all go to heaven. Get your facts straight

jerryb

you have NO idea what you area talking about, at all.

jerryb, Jehovah's Witnesses do not believe in heaven. Only the anointed, which is 144,000 are allowed the gift of heaven. However, NONE of us know what to expect after death- unless you have actually died and come back to life miraculously. The last person to ever be resurrected was Jesus.

The JWs also do not try to convince anyone that it does not matter how they act. Their beliefs are based on the bible, and use it to back it up. For those who truly try to follow it, many of them are very humble and wonderful people who would do anything to help their neighbor or strangers in need. Others see this and take advantage of that, and those are the ones with evil in their hearts. Just remember jerryb, idiots and liars can be in any religion. God will be the judge of them in the end. No need to bash a religion you obviously know little about.

So if there are already 144,000 going to heaven why the hell would anyone join !!?? Or maybe if your special you can bump someone off the spaceship !! Can you say Wacko ?

Sorry Jerry but you know nothing of the JW faith...and no I'm not one ; ) Creeps and sexual predators lurk in schools and many religions because up until a short time ago it was the perfect hiding spot.

Johnm-1308966, as is my understanding of their doctrine, the Earth will end up being like the Garden of Eden again and that's where most people will live forever in a paradise. Not such a bad gig as it goes. I don't think they believe in an afterlife or Hellfire either. Basically, you die and that's it until resurrection and judgment. They, of course, believe in a spirit realm, but it's my understanding that it's not a place where an incorporeal, conscious part of ourselves go to when we die. I'm not privy to the 144,000 and the details on them though. I believe the number and what they'll be doing is obtained primarily from Revelations though.

I have friends who are ex Jehovah Witnesses and most of them still believe in Jehovah but not how the church practices it. One thing we rarely discussed was religion and I practice a form of witchcraft called British Traditional Witchcraft not Wicca and they are more accepting of my choice than most Christian faiths are. Most of the Jehovah Witness people I have met through them are fairly nice people. Were all after the same thing in life, the path we choose to get there may be a little different.

What an ignorant moron.