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Subscribe to RSSShe’s been called the best teacher in her city, and she may be out of a job.
Sacramento sixth grade teacher Michelle Apperson was recently named “Teacher of the Year” for her entire district. A pink slip from California’s cash-starved government followed the good news for the Sutterville Elementary School teacher of nine years, KXTV reported.
According to The Sacramento Bee, the Sacramento City Unified School district approved $28 million in budget cuts earlier this year. The district is bracing for a worst-case scenario that it will have to cut another $15 million if Gov. Jerry Brown’s tax hike initiative fails to make the grade with voters in November, the Bee reported.
"It hurts on a personal level because I really love what I do," Apperson told KXTV of losing her livelihood. "But professionally and politically or economically I get why it happens."
For more, visit NBCBayArea.com
A district spokesman told KXTV the teacher layoffs were based on seniority, not performance, and mandated by the state.
Apperson is reportedly no. 8 on a list of teachers to be rehired if her district regains its funding.
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Doing layoffs by seniority...what a stupid approach!
This is just another reason why I don't trust government to spend my tax dollars effectively. If you have to do layoffs, then get rid of the bad workers first. Don't get rid of your good teachers!
I couldn't agree with you more! If layoffs are needed, it is the perfect time to dump the ineffective teachers. To dump a Teacher of the Year sends the wrong message to teachers who are innovative and work hard to educate our youth. For those wanting to change the contracts of public workers, talent over tenure is a great place to start.
The communist unions in action.
@ Paduki
I agree with you but money trumps proven competence-----new, unproven teachers work cheap and it is all about the $$$$
Here in San Diego one of the schools handed out pink slips to all but one teacher because it is a low performing school in a low income area, its where they send all the new teachers - who then transfer out as soon as they can (and folks wonder why it's so hard to fix failing schools). California has backed itself into a huge budget hole with things like the '3 strikes law' for non-violent offenders and the ability to allocate spending with 51% majority, yet needing 2/3 to pass new taxes. Lets offer up in state tuition for illegal immigrants when we are laying off entire schools worth of teachers. Great plan California
What a corrupt system, government really is clueless in running any kind of organization. They have managed to screw up anything they have touched, SS, Healthcare, Education, and on and on. No where in the world they would get rid of the best employee and keep the worst except here in the US.
It's not the unions that are the source of the problems - it's the nasty, greedy jerks who can't put off buying a new SUV in order to pay some taxes so that this country has some glimmer of hope for the future. Yeah - what a bunch of "patriots" those Tea Party folk are. Patriotic about their checkbook, that is.
Amen. I watched Waiting for Superman again last night and am still angry. This just makes the anger worse and confirms the corruption of our educational system the story exposed.
People should keep their jobs because of competence not because of an ability to hang on for seniority...teachers do other teachers and students a disservice by hanging onto the losers in their midst...aand yes it is the teachers unions that put rules like this in place...
And that's liberalism in action.
Gubmints, the elected officials and the employees still don't get it. They still are piling on the bad decisions. From the Cal Trans Director who gave a $1.4 billion contract to China to build a bridge, to firing the teacher of the year. In my town in Florida they city gubmint is holding employee retreats and paying old hippies to conduct "drum circles" so the staff feesl good about talking to each other. Merit pay and merit retention is only a conversation with these people. Being good stewards with the public's money is only a talking point. It's pure socialism. Churchill said: "capitalism is an unequal sharing of the blessings. Socialism is an equal sharing of the miseries". Firing the teacher of the year requires they retained a lesser quality teacher. Socialism, pure and simple.
The article doesn't say, but my guess would be this is a union rule, not govt. Unions and standardized testing have destroyed schools.
It is stupid. At Lockheed Martin, they said that well over half their engineers were less than 10 years from retirement. Why? Because they layoff the younger, less experienced people and keep the old farts. Guess what, the old farts retire and leave a large gap. You need a mix of old and young. They both bring their good points and you need a continuum of ages in the work force.
What in the name of jesus harold christ does that even mean?
Using 'seniority" anywhere is not a good idea these days. People with high seniority are the ones who do less work..since they know the others have to go before them! Once those are laid-off and people see they are on the bottom of the pole now..that's when they decide to do some work (scared as hell now).
Okay.. someone show me in the article where this teacher lost her job because of the Union. This was mandated by the state of California and has NOTHING to do with the union.
The anti union whiners and complainers need to get a grip.
Hello folks, we can layoff teachers, firefighters, policemen but don't have problems finding money to go to multiple wars, bailout the American and Euorpean banks and have our presidential candidates spend 1 billion dollars each on the presidential elections. What a country!
Ron-1861300,
Yeah, and the private sector would never think of doing layoffs based on seniority....
trudat6445,
It means step up and pay your taxes!! Education is the most important thing to this country's future. We live a good life here in the US (despite what the political cry-babies say). We can and do have it all - we just need to vote to pay for public education to keep the American dream alive. Get it? Is it really that difficult for you to understand?!
What a clueless comment. It's scary to me that people actually think like this.
Playing devil's advocate; I work too for my money. I pay my taxes. This seemingly competent teacher was laid off and at least seven less competent people with more seniority were laid off. Should I offer to sacrifice money that I worked hard to earn so that a bunch of politicians will use to hire back seven other people before rehring the one who shouldn't have been laid off to begin with?
Mike Brutus...
Excuse me, but of every dollar I EARN, how much will I be allowed to keep for myself and family? What's a good number that YOU would accept.
For every dollar you earn, assuming you DO earn anything, should you be allowed to keep 5, 10, 15, 20 cents or more?
Come on now, put YOUR money where your mouth is... how much are YOU willing to let the government TAKE FROM YOU??
trudat6445
"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933.
Are unions corrupt and greedy.. YES quite a few of them and they should be reformed. However, how is this any different than the lobbyists or PAC $$$ that are used to BUY votes in government. You righties sit there and scream about the unions, but turn a blind eye on the other side of the coin. True GOP hypocrisy at its finest.
Oh yes.. the GOP mantra on school... We want great schools/teachers, but are not going to pay for them. Why don't you tell us how much a teacher should be paid in this country. I am sure from your vast knowledge you can come up with an appropriate wage and retirement plan for them.
Are you really that dense?
Sorry brutus, but we do pay taxes for "education" unfortunately because of your unions and democrats, our taxes go to teachers who use to teach, they retired to live off the taxpayer and wind up getting paid to NOT work for longer than they did work. That is where our tax money goes, not to educate children.
9mm, brutus doesnt care how much the gov takes in his taxes because to the public union members paying taxes is just considered a contribution to their pensions. Just like our paying taxes is a contribution to their pensions.
Hitler wasnt always wrong.
XDm9mm,
And may I ask what it is that you do which is so noble that you would be "earning" what you have all on your own, without us or any public education system? (Or police, judges, city services, military, etc., etc. for that matter)
THAT WAS NOT MY QUESTION. Obviously, you are incapable of reading or comprehending anything, so I will surmise YOU are a product of our dysfunctional education system.
I surmise YOU got laid off. The "without us" indicates you are a "teacher" or whatever you want to call yourself.
Tea Party patriots, my A$$. None of you have any love f your country, otherwise your central focus would be passing political campaign reform. Instead, your central issue is your own damn checkbooks!
You have a flaw in your argument. You can't equate spending more money and getting a good education when teachers are being laid off based on seniority and not merit. That's what the story is about. Good teachers should be retained and bad teachers should be flushed - regardless of how long they've been on the job. That will improve education
XDm9mm,
You need us! You need this country! You need these government services! So pay some friggin' taxes!!
Mike Brutus....
ANSWER MY QUESTION..
HOW MUCH OF EVERY DOLLAR I EARN SHOULD I BE ALLOWED TO KEEP?
It really IS a very simple question. Even for you.
I would really like to know what one has to do with the other.
How does a union creating an unproductive, expensive atmosphere where there is no reason to excel because, apparently, you will just get fired first, compare to lobbyist and pac$$ buying votes from both political parties?
To sum up, you make no f*cking sense.
Brtus, thats all we see from union members, so we may as well play the same game.
The union will hear none of that. Who gets to stay and who gets to go is based on how long you've been paying dues not how well you teach.
Seriously? I'll tell you one thing for certain, we don't need you. If you are indeed a public employee you are part of the problem. We didn't need your feelings of entitlement and superiority. We need you to do the job that you're being paid to do or get the heck out. There are plenty of qualified people that would be happy to have your job. There's nothing special about you.
Where in the Constitution does it say anything, anything at all, about public education being a responsibility of the government?
Why should taxpayers be required to pay for your children's education? If you can't afford a private school then home-school your kids.
See how well that works out.
"We don't need no education..."
ItsAboutTime-3704531,
I assume you don't live in or know much about California politics. The "unions" and the "state" are difficult to distinguish between due to the spending/lobby power of the unions in the political system -- esp. "public service" unions.
Although I don't know the specific legislative history of particular laws mandating laying off of teachers based solely on seniority, if I were a gambler I'd certainly put my money on these laws having been created, enacted, and retained due to union lobbying money.
Unions in the US suffer from "I've got mine, now you worry about how to get yours" syndrome. The majority of the members in a union, of course, have good seniority (at least until layoffs reach >52% since attrition takes care of a couple percent a year) so they vote for and lobby for anything that protects themselves -- not their "customers" (the students in this case) or their "employer" (the taxpayers in this case).
This understandable, yet selfish, approach works esp. well in the public sector. Governments rarely "go out of business" (until they hit a situation such as Greece today or California in a decade or two) like an ineffective or inefficient private sector business (such as GM or Chrysler -- oops, again, there's that union controlling government thing rearing its ugly head again and costing the taxpayers tens of billions of dollars by ignoring bankruptcy laws in order to buy union votes). Hence, the Unions have little fear of buying off politicians to enact policies that would, in the private sector, destroy the businesses (and, therefore, eliminate their jobs). This approach also works well in the public sector because the owners (the taxpayers again for those who are not keeping track) don't directly negotiate the union deals even though they are forced to pay for them. When government gets supersized, the typical person can't even vote intelligently on the issues because they can't spend 100% of their time to track even just one agency (which is what would be required due to excessively intrusively complex government regulation), let alone track the whole government entity.
Mike Brutus - I've read all your comments and I'm convinced you don't have a clue. I pay my taxes and when I buy a new SUV I'll pay taxes on buying the car. You keep saying pay your taxes like we have a choice not to. I don't know how you think the tax system works but this morning when I got a cup of coffee from Dunkin Donuts, I paid taxes on the coffee. When I received my pay statement it listed the amount of money removed for both federal and state income tax, not to mention SS and Medicare. Last month I paid my first installment of my property taxes where the vast majority of it goes to the school district I live in. I pay my frigging taxes. So what I'm saying is get a new argument because you are typing out your a$$. And if I find out in my school district if they are laying off competent teachers because of seniority I'm going to be pissed and voice my opinion as that's my right as a tax payer.
We've all got to feel the pain.
My mother was in a similar situation about 2 years ago. She is one of the best teachers at her school, and every year has multiple parents requesting her. She was laid off due to seniority. Luckily she was one of the 2 teachers rehired. Before being rehired, parents petitioned to have her rehired because she was good. It is ridiculous that other teachers who have more seniority get job security regardless of how they perform.
In my job, unions are not allowed. In my job, you are graded on your performance and your performance compared to your peers. My salary is based on how hard I work and the quality I produce. I believe one of the major issues with our country right now is that people do not take and are not expected to take responsibility for their own actions.
I swing more to the right but I do agree that more money needs to go to the schools. Our teachers need to be better compensated - they are shaping the minds of our future people! The entire education system needs an overhaul. That is not going to be fixed overnight, and it definitely will not be fixed by throwing more money at it, especially without proper oversight. There also needs to be a change in thinking. Parents cannot expect to drop their kids off at school and rely on the teachers to raise them. Parents need to be involved. The community needs to be involved. Education needs to be a higher priority. Without education, our country will fall further behind other countries.
What is wrong with this picture?
Give Apperson Brown's job and he can have the pink slip! Or even better give her David W. Gordon's job as Superintendent of the Sacramento School District.
This is the problem with unions. Unions equate "fair" treatment with "equal" treatment and fair and equal are not always the same thing. Treating two people exactly the same SOUNDS fair, until you look at it more closely and start asking questions. Here is obviously a teach who put a LOT of extra time and effort into being the best teacher she could possibly be. She was given an award for it. But because the union equates "equal" with "fair", she is laid off because the union feels like someone who has been there longer should have precedent over someone who hasn't, regardless of their skills and efforts.
Yes, unions take the subjectivity out of it and make everything black and white, but this is often not the best thing for anyone, except for the marginal employee who benefits by their long tenure.
This is a serious question and I would really love an answer to it, how is it that these politicians can raise millions in campaigns but can't seem to rub two pennys together to save failing education and many other dire programs that they campaign on the promises of saving? These funds are used to promote their agenda through commercialization and bring awareness to their message so they can get voted into office? To do what? Complain that their isn't enough money to take care of the things you raised millions to fix? Here's a clue, lead by example. These fake leaders have no idea what that means anymore. How about dumping some of those "contributions" you recieve back into the system that helped prop you up and gave you a place and nation that you can feel safe to walk outside in and not get a howlitzer up the rump a block away. How about those fake leaders throw something back into the system they take advantage of. Wishful thinking I guess because these bone heads are more concerned with dead presidents then their dead precedences. Look at any place we consider 3rd world, what is one of the main reasons these people have so much trouble and we as a people look down on them? The answer is education and the lack thereof. It's much easier to con a man without an education out of his very life and make them feel like it was a great decision. This is the road we travel by downgrading an already hurting system. Maybe we should start teaching our kids to sew so they can be competetive in America's future sweat shop work force.
WhatsLegal
Thank you for the post and comment. You are right on the money and I agree with your comment. It does provide a lot of legitmacy behind what seems to have taken place. Its amazing how the lobbyist (Union or 'otherwise)' use their power ($$) to buy favors.
Mike Brutus, Mike Brutus.... where are you? Are you afraid of answering the question?
Sounds good, but there's a fundamental problem. Without contracts that protect workers who have seniority, then when the economy tightens up, those with seniority are the FIRST to go, regardless of their "quality". And judging the "quality" of a teacher is practically impossible. A crappy teacher in a good school in a good neighborhood will have a better record than a good teacher in a bad school in a poor neighborhood, (at least most of the time... there are a few exceptions - very few). So who will be the judges when it comes down to it? I'll tell you.. the ones who are trying to trim the budget. And who will they pick? The ones who are paid the most, which means the ones who have been there the longest and have earned the most pay raises. It happens in all industries, not just schools. What's the solution? There IS no good, one-size-fits-all solution. It would help if we didn't have to cut school funding so much, obviously. But unless the people are willing to shell out more in taxes, what else can we do? And who wants to pay more taxes in a state already paying high taxes, and during bad economic times. Normally, we'd expect to borrow during the bad times, and pay it back during the good times, but the requirement for a balanced budget, and the fact we've already borrowed our asses off, makes that a moot point. Face it, folks, we're fooked until the economy improves.
He said the same thing everyone else has been saying that you are arguing with, he just spelled it out for you in long-form because apparently you require to have your hand held.
XDm9mm, you could probably keep all of it, but you will be getting back and forth to work, school, the store on un-kept dirt roads which rip your car apart and force you to repair it yearly. You private market repair services, cable, utilities, ambulance, etc will also have to charge you much higher prices to repair their vehicles due to the wear on their vehicles, getting to and from your home. The cost of the items you buy at stores will also increase since those products also get transported on un-kept dirt roads. And forget about timely delivery of products to your home, business and places your shop, un-kept roads won't allow products to travel at 60-70mph. I guess the real question is how much of your hard earned money do you think you should keep, and what are you willing to do without.
Here is the catch 22 of the situation. Everyone would rather keep the competent staff and cull the dead wood. (Or at lest the lesser competent staff.) That seems best for everyone.
But if you layoff someone based on merit then you open yourself and your business to a lawsuit to prove that everyone you kept was better than the ones you let go. They have nothing to lose with the lawsuit. You - who are already cash strapped or you probably wouldn't be laying off people to begin with - will now have to make more cuts to pay for the lawyers.
Seniority is easy to prove. You started work on this date and everyone hired after this date is laid off. Your other option is to lay off people and refuse to reveal the criteria you used. Some states allow for this.
Most unions I've dealt with require the seniority method. (I don't know about the school district here.) Most companies I've worked for use it too for the reason mentioned above.
Exactly. Do you want teachers, firefighters, and policemen or do you want your taxes lowered - to create jobs.
I don't care what a private company does since they only have my money if I choose to spend on their products. Besides, just because 2 people do something stupid, doesn't change the fact it's still stupid...
Gneisenau,
If a companies management is so afraid of lawsuits that they will retain bad employees and fire good ones, they are probably going to fail in the long run. (or do like Wall Street, GM & Chrysler, and be bailed out with our tax dollars)
I am amused, so many lefties condemning the Unions, who were instrumental in getting Barry elected. I thought the economy was so much better? Isn't that what Barry and the rest of the leftist talking heads have been trying to convince us of? So where's the jobs? Come on Barry, you've been saying for months now how much better things are, so why are people still being layed off? Why are unemployment claims rising yet again? What, those evil corporation not playing ball with you? Oh that's right, this is California, home of the deficit budget for all the hand outs and freebies. The model of which Washington insiders, i.e., criminals, have been using for decades now.
So you think everything would be roses were it not for trade Unions, do you? You must be very young and extraordinarily naive. Research the working conditions before the labor movement. It was the unions drove the child labor laws, safe working conditions, livable wages, health benefits, reasonable working hours, holidays, vacations, everything you kids take for granted. You think corporations pay decent wages out of the goodness of their hearts? You can't be that stupid.
Unions, like everything else, is a two edges sword, it cuts both ways, for this representation you pay dues. For what is gained, it isn't all that expensive. On the flip side, you can work in a "right to work or AT will" state like Kansas. Where you can be terminated at any time, for any or no reason. Or you can join a union and be protected from unreasonable terminations. Seniority rules, not exactly fair, but, it works. Last hired, first layed off. That's the way it goes. If this teacher is as good as they claim, she will be snapped up by a more prosperous district. Then again, it's California, so she may have to go to a neighboring state to find such a district.
Blame the unions if you like, the better place to look is Washington and the monumental incompetence that is the current administration. Unions started in the 1890's and have successfully coexisted with industry, albeit continuously at times, since. Much of this countries individual prosperity, until recently, was a direct result of union labor. Ask your dad's about how unions helped them take a vacation every year, drive a nice car, live in a decent house. Things they would not have been able to afford were it not for union wage jobs. Funny how when things get bad people blame everything under the sun except those responsible for the continuation of this mess. Blame you favorite politician. They more than anyone else are the cause of this mess. If a politicians mouth is moving they are lying to you, it is that simple and party means nothing. Look to their portfolios to see where their loyalties truly lie.
California calling Scott Walker, California calling Scott Walker, come in Scott Walker, do you read me, come in? Suck it California! You made your filthy bed now sleep in it.
But alas I'm sure fearless leaded Odumbo will come to the rescue with a CAILNY Federal bailout. After all there might be 2 or 3 votes in those states he needs to
getbuy.Gneisenau-It is the responsibility of the complaintant to prove that the defendant has violated the law...not the other way around.
I am shocked that "austerity" measures are taking place in the most liberal state in the nation. I mean, why can't they borrow and spend their way out of it? It just goes to prove a point...sometimes, governments are forced to make cuts because they can't raise taxes and borrowing money has become to expensive.
XD, you can keep 65% of your pay. Maybe if those who hoarded all the money, paid their fair share of taxes, and actually paid real wages, your 65% would be plenty to live on.
If you people must know, I'm the guy slapping mono-saturated fat onto your Cheddar Bay Biscuits every night. I'm the guy watching you get one nanometer closer to a coronary because I'm doing my job and making some greedy executive rich. I'm a cook who can't afford to go to college or pay for health insurance.
And to answer the question about tax rates, let's recap the last 30 years: Starting with the Reagan splurge, income tax rates were cut by more than half, resulting in a tripling of the total national debt and leaving us with $500 billion per year perpetual deficits. Thanks Ronnie and the cons. So, yeah a huge recession's really gonna hurt the debt. And over that time, this tax-less philosophy has permeated everywhere and now in California you must vote to find funding for education. People don't vote to pay taxes, so I say pay your friggin' taxes!
And I say "you need us" because cons are so lost that they think they "earn" everything they have, as if they existed on some island and they're income didn't have anything to do with paying working employees a $hit wage or the government services they've received their entire lives.
So next time you're dipping your crab leg into your clarified butter, think about the cooks in the back who can't afford a college education or health care because you keep voting to cut taxes. Think about this teacher, who is now unemployed because you keep voting to cut taxes. And, then, enjoy your coronary, ya greedy bastard!
Stephanie -- The fair share thing. Can you define the term as you use it?
What is the fair share for those making $50k?f
What is the fair share for those making $125k?
What is the fair share for those making $22k?
Stephanie, what on earth is wrong with someone choosing to hoard their own money? Thats none of your business. I'm for changing our tax laws, but you probably wouldn't like it because I'd like to see every person and business in this country pay the same percentage of their income in taxes, no matter whether that income is from a poorly run welfare system or a well run business. Get rid of all exemptions. Here in the USA, we already have the highest corporate tax rate in the world.
This is a tired arguments that the unions always seem to bring up, but you know what? This is how the REST of the world operates and it seems to work pretty well. By surveying test scores, parental feedback, peer reviews, and in-class observations (for those principals who leave their offices), it is not that difficult to tell who the best teachers are and who the worst teachers are. And you know what? I bet if a lot of the older teachers were faced with the prospect of losing their jobs if they just go through the motions, many of them would find new energy to put into staying "fresh" and energized. The system in place today just promotes mediocrity (or worse).
@ron & David - yet most companies use the seniority method unless state laws protect them. It often doesn't take anything to file a suit. It always takes money and time to defend yourself from one. Things in short supply if you are laying people off in the first place. All they need is to be a big enough pain that you decide to throw money at them to make them go away.
Mike Brutus, how is it you can't afford an education, but thousands and thousands of others that have no bankroll can? Quit crying and just do it like so many others have.
Stepanie-574;
Maybe if you took an accounting course or an economics course, you;d have a better understanding of how the system works. Corporation, large or small, pay taxes you don't, every quarter, not once a year as in personal income taxes. True you pay them all year, but file a return once. Corporation have to file 4 times each year, with taxes paid 4 times a year. Here's the difference, Taxes are more of less, a fixed expense, While putting the yearly budget together, taxes are figured into the per unit price of the items or services those corporation provide. Ergo, the taxes are paid by the sale of merchandise and as such paid by the customer. But they are paid non the less. Did you take every last deduction or exemption legally allowed you? Yes, you did. Corporation pay taxes the individual is not obliged to pay. There are federal taxes on products like batteries, tires, various chemicals to cover possible clean up from mis-use by you the consumer.
As for the bleeding heart in the kitchen. It's called determination, taking night classes or working night to go to school. I did it, so can you. Spare everyone your pity party. If you have the drive to better yourself, you can. No one owes you anything. The hand out mentality is what keeps you in the kitchen and out of the office. Stop whining and start doing something to better yourself. "Poor me" will get you no where. Where precisely is ti written that the world owes you something? There is no such thing as a free lunch, didn't your mommy teach you that as a child? If you want something badly enough, you'll do the work to achieve it. If you don't want it badly enough, or you think if you whine and cry ling enough it will be given to you, then expect to be serving up lobster to other the rest of your life. You need to learn what you make of your life is up to decisions and action you make, not what some political philosophy says is how it should be. If you choose to make your life better it will take time, you will work some crumby jobs. Or you can wait for government to provide you all you need. If that's the route you choose, good luck and starvation to you. The difference between you and this teacher is simple, she has marketable skills and will find a job in another district, perhaps in another state, but she will. You lack these marketable skills, so go get them, do the work and stop whining about your misfortune. You can either do something about your situation or wallow in feeling sorry for yourself. YOUR choice.
Nicodemus1946 - Bravo! Just Awesome! Mike Brutus - in case you don't know that entire second paragraph above this comment from Nicodemus1946 is about you.
Nicodemus1946,
You mean all I need to do is work hard and be happy with what I have, and then I can get rich? Oh wow! Why didn't I think of that before!
Get real, guy. When you went to college it cost 1/2 what it does now because people actually paid taxes back then. We need to go back to the way it was before Reagan and undo this Republican war on opportunity. We've seen the consequences. We just need you folk to realize that all we need to do is go back to pre-Reagan federal income tax rates.
Ron-1861300 - totally agree!!!!!
Why fire a "Teacher of the Year"? Why not fire some of the deadbeat teachers that just collect a paycheck and don't really teach.
Being a resident of California for 55+ years I can only say one thing: Public Employee Unions are responsible for most of the states economic woes and the retention of worthless employees. Once a teacher has "tenure" the only way you can get rid of them is maybe, and I said maybe, if they get caught molesting a student and that is not a guarantee.
People, thank the unions. No matter how well you perform, and applaud all of you that do, when there is a union scum bag non-performer with seniority, you are gone.
Is that what you envisioned when you voted those scum bag unions in? Did not think so.
No have a nice life in the unemployment line while the teachers we prefer not to "teach" in school are having their summer vacation, with a pay check.
Nice Democrats, nice, oh so sorry, Communists!
This demonstrates what is valued most in this country.......money. Professional skills and experience does not matter. The entire system is one huge self-destructive facade.
the headline should have included "for her district" so that its clear she's one of thousands of teachers given this blue ribbon and not some national winner
In Some countries, in order to become a "teacher" one must achieve all A's to qualify. Those teachers are paid well in those countries.
In America, one must be a member of a government union, with "tenure" to be a teacher.
Most anyone (not in a Union) BLAMES THE UNION.
IF all teachers unions had regular competency tests, they could weed out, (or at least attempt to weed out inept teachers). Administrators aren't loosing their jobs because in gerneral they have more seniority.
This isnt' rocket science folks..... Whatever happened to fiscal responsibility? When there is a surplus of tax $ available to hire more teachers and administrators, has there ever been an instance where the Union says, wait... we do not need another 3 supervisors (a previously inept teacher who applied for the job) to manage the employee counting the supplies and toilet paper for the school district?
You all realize that even in non-union shops most companies will layoff those at the bottom first unless they have a strong reason to layoff someone up the chain? Discrimination and other charges can be filed on them. Just sayin its not just union shops.
Sorry to all you union folks but this reeks of a rule that came into play due to union lobby monies. Fire on seniority and not performance. Clear union rules 101. I'm not totally against unions but I am against stupidity like this, and unfortunately any good unions might do is canceled out but this stupidity and then some (thus putting me more against then for if you want to look at it that way). What a great time to get rid of the slackers but no, instead we ignore the chance and fire one of the best teachers. Though the state and the union probably don't see any wrong in this or have the guts (the state) to actually stand up and call foul. What a shame, and all the while the kids get to suffer even more. Can't figure out what is causing all the problems in America, well here is a great example! (One of many)
It is time
It is time, and, jwfun, and everyone else with an anti-union agenda,
Get a clue!! The root cause of this isn't unions - it's people refusing to pay taxes for public education and conservative politicians who love to cut taxes! This is the #1 long-run problem this country is facing. Everything else, your SUV, your trip to Cabo, is all short-run excess that you chose to indulge in instead of paying to educate future American workers. What patriots you all are!
America pays more per student than any other country, yet we're about 20th in performance, people mention the unions because the only solution the union is willing to accept is spend more money, they block anything else, especially accountability measures, so yes, this absolutely is a union issue
Berenerd - yes but not always. If they are smart they don't and they weight all the options, not blindly fool-low a flawed system.
Mike - I have a clue, do you? What I saw(read) here was a complete lack of common sense and the basic union approach of when there are cuts the senior people go last, not something based on performance. As I stated the real losers here are the students. I know too that doing it this way is easier and CYA but its not right. Fire the good and likely end up leaving some bad? Wrong! And just so you know I too agree that cutting the taxes for proper school funding is also a major issue. But I also know a rat when I smell one and this stinks! I want teachers to get fair pay and I want my tax money to go to those that deserve it, not because they have been there the longest. If they can't perform then see you later. Get teachers unions to change this stance (tenure) and they will get alot more public support. All I saw here was another good teacher canned do to a flawed system, one heavily influenced by the unions.
If seniority rules were not in place, in every situation where teachers get cut, the older teachers who are earning more because they have more experience and usually more education, would get the ax every time. Administrators looking to save dollars would not look at competency, only at dollars.
Teachers who have worked hard for many many years would get the ax just before they reach the additional year required for full benefits of their retirement.
If you don't believe that would happen, let me see if I can find you some ocean front property in S. Dakota.
Truly bad teachers can get terminated, unions just make sure that the teacher gets the full opportunity to defend themselves against arbitrary actions by bureaucrats.
In this particular case, it just shows how truly bad our economy currently is and how much the states need the assistance that has not come out of Washington for the last two years. This teacher must not have been teaching for very long, otherwise she would probably not have been hit by the budget ax. Since she is so good, she will likely land another job and start all over.
Do you remember that old saying so goes California so goes the nation. California is the canary. Unfortunately the canary dies but it does save everyone us. Thanks California, we'll never forget. We'll build you a monument.
Mike Brutus you need to wise up. Californians are already over taxed as it is and soon there will be few that even qualify to pay taxes.
Gneisenau...
Can't buy your argument on the private sector following rules of seniority per say. I have been in the private sector workforce long enough to have seen that 98% of the time it is those that show the best productivity potentials that are the ones that stay, senior or not.
Mike Brutus,
Really dude, can you answer the questions asked by others and now myself. How much should the federal or state government get out of each dollar. That is the problem with you lefty liberals, you scream for other people's money, but can never put an amount on your perverted rantings. Please sir, tell us how much of every dollar the governments should get, and how much we should be allowed to keep. Should we go back to the FDR thoughts of after $25,000 dollars that we have a 100% tax rate. Really, should those who already shoulder the burden of taxes be made to pay more. What is a fair tax rate? You think that people should be made to pay 70% of their earnings to the governments. Especially since they do such a good job with spending OUR money.
Education's problem isn't the amount of tax dollars, it is the way it is spent. Administrators making 10 times what a teacher makes. The number of those types of people destroy the education system. Unfunded mandates by federal and state governments. Standardized testing that does not teach students, but teaches them to take a test, so the school looks better. Expecting all students in a high school to attend college. College is not a right, but a privilege, something you should pay for, not the government.
Of course we can tell by your typing that you yourself should head back to school, because it seems in a lot of cases that you should re-study economics, spelling, and typing.
Mike Brutus - Raise the taxes, raise the taxes, raise the taxes. Broken records aren't this annoying. You talk about going back to pre-Reagen tax code are you talking about going back to Jimmy Carter? You talking about an Energy Crisis, Price Controls and 13.5% inflation? Did you also know that it was Jimmy Carter who dropped the Capital Gains income tax to 28% from its high of 49%? You know what Capital Gains are, right? I think we did go back to Jimmy Carter already, doesn't seem to be working out. He changed his name to Barack Obama though.
BigBear62,
Hey man, it's not my fault you can't go look up what the federal income tax rates were before Reagan. Evidently you do have a computer and internet access. I answered that question loud and clear - the federal income tax should be rolled back to when college was afforardable and we didn't have $500 billion per year deficits. That's right before Reagan. What are you trying to do? Make some rhetorical case? Go look up those rates and then keep complaining about how things are now!! You know how to use google?
First off the artical never said this teacher was or wasn't part of the Union and Yes there are public school teachers that are not part of the Union. Everyone forgets there are two sides in the negotiating table with Unions on one side and Management on the other. So both sides have to agree or it isn't a done deal. I know lets go with the non Union side where if my buddy is working he stays you go or I don't like you today you lose your job. If companies or management played by laws or even rules to begin with there wouldn't be a need for a UNION but they don't. Wisconsin made a perfect example that rules and laws with a swipe of the pen can change and will without someone fighting against it. The government has sided with business before and will again. You should stop being jealous of the Pensions paid for by the members of Union and ask how you might get one. Yes paid for by the members it is there pay put into those pensions not our tax dollars. Just like the money you spend is from your pocket not from us consumers.
Above the absolute horrible teachers who is to say one is better then the other? What test could you possible make to decide this? If a child isn't learning in school is it the teachers fault or the parents fault or the child's fault? There are to many factors in this issue to say who is or isn't better.
Well, on the bright side she shouldn't have any problem finding work OUTSIDE California.
It kills me when I see stuff like this. As if it's teacher's fault that our economy is wrecked and not the two wars we fought for a decade. Such a shame.
It is time,
Get a clue!! The private sector lays off based on seniority too! The only thing is, you've got nothing to bitch about because they can do whatever they want to you in this screwy corporate feudalism called the US.
XDm9mm, if the social issues like healthcare, home ownership, food, public transportation are taken care of with vouchers, 60% they can take. At least Wall St. and Crooked Businessmen won't get all my money as they do NOW. Maybe even75%, and I still would work your a$$ off.
I am sick to death of know nothing people blaming unions. I have worked in public schools since 1977, and 99% of all teachers I know are very competent. We wouldn't even be having this discussion if the Wall Street Financial Industry hadn't ruined our economy with their greedy gambling. PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS ....Teachers, Fire Fighters, Police, Public Health Professionals and other public workers DID NOT CAUSE this recession, they and everyone else are the victims of FAT CAT GREED, which is still going on, and won't be stopped by the do nothing congress which are bought and paid for by the rich .
PS .... In Los Angeles we teachers haven't had a raise in 7 years. On the contrary we have voted to take pay cuts, through furlough days, that amount to about a 5% cut each year for the last 3 or 4 years, to save our fellow teachers and district employee's jobs. Does anyone on Wall Street ever vote to cut their own pay, I think not !!!!!!
@ Mike Brutus; The reason so many people here are dissing what you're saying is because what you're saying has nothing to do with what everybody is so upset about. Yes, times are tough, not because of low taxes, but because of what Wall Street greed and two wars have done to our country. But that's not the issue, and you evidently can't see that. The complaint here is that an award-winning teacher is let go while (many, probably) useless teachers are kept because of seniority. That is downright criminal towards children in public schools. You're a cook....think of it this way. Maybe you're not that great of a cook, so maybe that's why you get what you think is not enough compensation. But say you were a great cook, every patron that eats where you work raves about your culinary excellence. But the restaurant is hurting, and they need to let one cook go. The cook who's been there a couple of years longer than you, and is not that good, is kept and you're let go. This would be downright criminal to the patrons, and very unfair to you. How would you feel about that? THAT is what THIS article is about. If you wish to expound on how you would save the world's economy, you should comment on articles about that. That's all everybody is trying to get through to you, friend.
PS. On the other hand, the private sector is going AGAINST seniority so they can dump people who are earningmon higher pay, or about to retire with pensions. THAT is not right either, but I don't know what (other than suing) can be done about that, either.
Steele Toed Boot .... Without senority every teacher who is nearing retirement could be fired just to allow younger, lesser paid teachers take their place ... is that fair ?????
I have been working for public schools for 35 years at much less than what I could have made in the private sector with my Masters Degree educational background, but I chose a more secure and giving public service job over greed. I am very near my retirement that I have worked all that time for, without unions and rules to protect me, without some sense of fair play to older workers, like in the private sector, for no just cause, I could just be let go and lose much of worked my whole life for ??? .... I guess that was what people like you want, but what if it was your mother, your father, or grandpartents who was the one laid off ?
I don't defend incompetent teachers, but in my experience 99% of all teachers I have worked with are very competent. Laying off this Teacher of the Year, with 9 years experience is a tragedy, but even though the other thousands of teachers did not get picked for Teacher of the Year, does not mean that they are incompetent and desevre to be fired, some yes, but the vast majority, no.
Again my point is that public workers did not cause this economic mess, rich fat cats did, but we public workers are now getting a large the brunt of the blame for it as tax revenues have plunged.
Mike Brutus.... you claim we don't spend enough on education? Excuse me, who the hell are YOU? Did YOU graduate High School? If you did, thank me and the rest of the taxpaying population. YOU can't go to college? Sorry but TOUGH $HIT!!! Your personal problem... NOT mine!
Do you REALLY want to know why American Schools are FAILING??? It's a really simple answer. Teachers now have to teach to the lowest common denominator, and that's the child in the class that has trouble reading and writing in the eighth grade. Schools are graduating barely functional illiterates. Why you ask? Because they can't FAIL any child... it might hurt their feelings and give them "emotional" problems in later years. So, yes, graduate that imbecile to be nice, of course he'll be the gang banger next year because he'll find the real world isn't as kind as school.
STOP the political correctness. FAIL those who can't grasp the material. You're NOT doing them any favors by passing them when they need to fail.
And as far as taxes.... again, I pay quite a bit in taxes. And for your edification, I also pay for my grandchild's education OUTSIDE of the abysmal "public school system". So I'm actually paying twice. But it is a price I'm willing to pay. It ENSURES me that my grandchildren, will be able to read, write, accomplish simple and complicated math problems, know HOW and WHY this country was founded, why it is important to be SELF RELIANT, and NOT be dependent on the STATE for his or her success. They will understand the concept of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY. They will have the ABILITY to SUCCEED and not be dependent on others. They will know PERSONAL PRIDE.
Maybe you would like them to teach you.
Jesse G...
Jesse.... the most important two words of the post I pulled from your post above is "SOME YES"... therin lies the problem.... the Unions protect those "SOME" and it's detrimental to the "vast majority".
The other issue, especially with public unions, is simple. Unlike an airline, if the employees strike, there are alternative airlines to utilize for the trip. How many different school systems are there when teachers strike? The taxpayers are a captive audience and more often than not have their taxes raised through, well for lack of a better term, extortion.... if you don't give us what we want, we'll strike and YOUR CHILDREN WILL SUFFER. That's what the teachers union has accomplished for you.
Mike Brutus---the majority rules----your comments are no longer relevant to this discussion...
Mike Brutus,
I see that you read like you type and complain, not worth a crap. I even put the tax rates prior to Reagan in my statement.
So in your little brain you think that Americans should give up 70 cents of every dollar to the governments that do not know how to balance a budget. It really shows that you lack the knowledge to understand economics, national or personal. You and your tax, tax, tax, party are on the way out. There are still areas of liberalism, like California, and they soon enough will be out also, because the smartest and brightest are headed out of the state. You can't tax people to death, and besides, even JFK knew you couldn't tax the wealthy to death, and every year that there are tax cuts, the revenue of the national government has gone up. Check that out on google, I hope you know how to use that, because I don't see any links in your posts, just more MSDNC comments.
Got back on here late. @ Jesse G.: I don't think you read through to the PS on my post....I said exactly what you said about greedy corporations dumping people just before they retire to cheat them out of pensions and retirement, and in favor of keeping newer employees earning a lot less. All they need is an excuse to downsize, like the present economy. It breaks my heart to see college graduates working for Burger King at minimum wage, and be expected to thank their employer for allowing them to work there. Especially when you know that the emplyer only hired them to get the best possible employee for the least amount of money. And, yes, I also put the blame for our economic mess where it truly belongs....Wall Street greed and corruption and two wars. But if seniority is used to guard against older worker firings, then you have what happened in this case. The better teacher gets canned while the bad teacher is saved. As I said, I don't know where the middle ground is to prevent either. In the perfect world, the bad teachers should already have been gone and only the good teachers remain, but the union prevents the employer (the school system) from doing that. The recent case where a teacher and her aides were secretly recorded cursing and terrorizing an autistic little boy demonstrates how that system fails. The aide was fired, but the teacher, despite the public outcry, was simply spirited away to another district, her job saved by the union when she should have been fired. Teacher unions are not the only unions that do this, and they shouldn't be allowed to 'save' the bad seeds. It's a quandary with no solution that can't be corrupted. You can't force people to be the best they can be, and you can't 'legislate morality' so that corporations do the right thing by their employees.
The problem with all state jobs is that back in the 60s and 70s the rules that they used to hire people protected them from what is happening now. With each new decade the coverage decreases...that is one of the reasons they keep the old employees on, because it would cost more to break those contracts with being sued than it does to fire new people. WHICH IS A BUNCH OF BULL. If you can not do the job, get out!
@ Mike - if we are going to increase the federal taxes to what they were back then are we going to roll back state, sales and excise taxes too?
Mike - late to respond but I won't let a response to my post go unanswered if I can help it. Yes I know that happens did I say it didn't? It not worth any additional words or time to post back to you. I think the others made it clear. Try to stop drinking the kool aide and see the world for what it is. And yes I can see both sides, can you? Doesn't appear so.
........AND the guy who lost more than $2 Billion dollars at JP Morgan banking company, Jamie Dimont, HE still has HIS job............which is why I am voting Democratic Party this Fall !
Less govt is what the tea baggers wanted. They now are receiving less govt. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Huh?
What SallyAnn is saying, I believe, is that teachers, along with firefighters, police, and some nurses, are all government employees. Tea Party Republicans are promoting the idea that less government is good and are trying to strangle funding that keeps teachers in our schools. Their pro-austerity stance, bringing what has worked so well over in Europe here, SallyAnn believes, is not a prudent choice. This story is an example of the Tea Party getting what it thinks it wants.
-Doug
titan415 - Great Post.
For this article: I hate seeing this happen to a good teacher, but welcome to the 21st century. This is what's happened in the private sector and no union or government required. At least the lawmakers in california are leading by example and taking a pay cut as well:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-05-31/california-governor-lawmakers-get-pay-cut-5-by-panel.html
Maybe our leaders in Washington should 'cut their pay' as well.
While I don't like layoffs in general, if the money isn't there to pay someones salary and benefits, then layoffs are needed. However, the decision of who to layoff is also very important. In this case, they seem to be taking, what I would call, a very stupid approach. You shouldn't layoff your best people first - they should be the last to go.
This just reinforces my view that government doesn't have a clue how to effectively spend my tax dollars.
So the best teacher in the school district loses her job due to union policy, which has the strong and unwavering support of the Dems. You somehow think its the tea party? Do they even exist in Cali? No this the Dems all the way.. Which goes to show, that we must cut back gov, we can either do it in a calm controlled manner, like WI is doing, or do it in a chaotic, off the cliff style like the dems so love..
Titan, im completely content dumping all the thieves in public works who drive around doing nothing all day. Why do dems always want it to be teachers, fire and police? Oh because it makes for good spinning, like you did.
If the unions would let them fire the crappy teachers then this woman could keep her job, but performance means nothing to libs and unions.
It's not the unions that are the source of the problems - it's the nasty, greedy jerks who can't put off buying a new SUV in order to pay some taxes so that this country has some glimmer of hope for the future. Yeah - what a bunch of "patriots" those Tea Party folk are. Patriotic about their checkbook, that is.
Pretty sure the Teabaggers wanted less spending on things like illegal alien benefits and other give-away programs we can no longer afford. Education for American children doesn't have to suffer, or police or firefighters. Just cut out raping taxpayers to provide for those who shouldn't be here. Plus, governments at all levels have demonstrated that they know how to run our lives better than we do. That may be true for liberals, but the rest of us don't buy it.
Less govt is what the tea baggers wanted. They now are receiving less govt
California is, and has been run by Democrats for decades. I know, I lived there for a quarter century. How on earth is this the fault of the Tea Party, SallyAnn? Seriously???
@ Titan / Sally-Ann.... It's not the teabaggers fault.... The reason why the layoffs is because THE MONEY IS RUNNING OUT!!!!... And because of the stupid reasons that unions protect the lazy deadwood that have been on the job for years, this great teacher of the year will be laid off....
Less government means there are less ways that they can piss away money on dumb things..
We never see the stories about the adminstraters being cut. Tea party people want fire fighters, police, teachers, and other public servents but not the hughe overhead that has been built to pander to people who couldn't otherwise work in the private sector. Dept of Education - how many of them were cut to preserve jobs in states? How many education administrators were cut from the California state government? That's the piece of big government that needs to be trimmed.
I disagree. This story is an example of what happens when bloated government gets too expensive. California is in a bind, and apparently the only other solution is that voters approve a tax hike.
trudat6445
Oh yes, its the dem's only that want it to be teachers, fire, and police. Yep, the GOP never calls for them to lose their jobs do they. Maybe if you righities focused on the working people of america vs the corporations, people wouldn't lose their jobs as much.
Umm.. where was union mentioned in this article? It was the state of California that mandated the cuts, not the union. If you disagree, please post a reputable article or news source that shows how the UNION was involved with this teacher losing her job.
John-2776171
The Teaparty wants great schools/teachers, firemen, and police, as long as they don't have to pay for any of it.
I agree with the other posters here who think "teabaggers" have nothing to do with this. Govt has massive overhead costs and giveaway benefits, some to illegal residents, that we as taxpayers can no longer support.
No one wants to fire those public servants who are actually doing something for us, like good teachers, but union rules require seniority be taken into consideration. Get rid of public unions and some management levels and we might start saving a little money without sacrificing services or having to fire top performers.
I disagree - the Tea Party doesn't know what it wants. It's just a tool of the Koch Industry's war on the American dream vis-a-vis its war on the American public education system.
You really have no understanding of reality, do you.
Did your homework for you because i know you wouldnt because we both know you are wrong.
Thats from nber.org pdf about union seniority rules. Now spin it somehow like you libbies do.
It would truly be less "government" only if they were laying off administrators instead of teachers.
Less government doesn't have to mean fewer services. The government, at all levels, is spending far to much for the level of service that is provides. The government, when faced with budgets cuts, never looks to improve it process to make itself more efficient they simply cut teachers. They do this on purpose. It makes good political ammunition when it comes time to ask for more tax money or votes.
Well, one thing for sure, there are a lot of people who are clueless about the Tea Party. But, as is usual with the libs, they use nonsense arguments to support their causes because they can't use logic to do so. If you listen to the libs here, you'd think that the Tea Party is out arguing that the first people that should be fired are the good employees. That's absurd. What you have here is a terrific example of why the libs' ideas of unions is such a bad idea, at least for the students and the taxpayers in this school district. The usual contracts with unions provide for last hired first fired arrangements. This works just fine in times of plenty (which, by the way, is created by the evil capitalist private sector). The unions and those who negotiate for the taxpayers, which hardly a negotiation at all since those negotiating don't have their own money at stake, usually just want to get negotiations out of the way so they can get on to more important things. The seniority system has been so entranced in the system that it is impossible to get a union to agree to anything without it. And state laws don't allow school boards to just not agree to the provisions and just dismiss the union and deal with the school employees individually. The Tea Party, if they were in control, would have been able to cut costs by firing the least effective employees. So, in reality, it is the libs who want this result. They won't admit it, but it is the natural consequence of their desire to have unions. Of course, we know that what the libs want is to have a bottomless flow of money so that there are no consequences. But, other than through bullying, they haven't a clue as to how to get it.
It's ironic that Walker and the repubs in Wisconsin were able to save all those jobs that the libs claimed they wanted lost. Now, it looks like the libs are going to lose all these jobs that they claim they want to save. Such is life when one put intentions above results. I'd be willing to bet that a lot of jobs could be saved here, but it would take the teachers and their union realizing the reality of finances, and that isn't likely to happen.
trudat6445
oh I see... so in this article, it expressly states this teacher lost her job because of "Senority" in the union. Yep.. I must have missed that part in the article. Thank you for pointing that out. That's exactly why this teacher lost her job and the state cuts had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with it.
We need to get rid of most all teachers and replace them with computers. This is an effective way to teach at a fraction of the cost.
Like i said, put whatever lib spin you want on it, doesnt change the turth.
Once again, the article doesn't STATE that, if you can show me an article that does, then your 'facts' would be validated. Put whatever righty spin on it you want. It doesn't change anything.
"A district spokesman told KXTV the teacher layoffs were based on seniority, not performance, and mandated by the state." Of course, the seniority provisions passed by the state legislature and signed by the governor must have been done at a time when the Tea Party was in charge!
If the teaparty was in charge, then the school would have already been closed. Republicans don't like to pay for schools or anything else unless it results in a profit.
It still doesn't mention the 'word union" in the article, but based on another poster's comment, about how the "LOBBYIST" In Sacarmento led by the union, may have had influence in the 'jobs'
Thank you for the post.
@ It's about time..... what???? Don't you know how the unions work? Of course MSN won't state that... it would look bad for the unions... My father was a teacher at the state level.. also once was voted teacher of the year... He disliked the unions.. So I have a really good idea on how they work... Some other teacher who didn't get voted teacher of the year will keep their job while this exceptional teacher will loose hers.
The insanity of Politics. Lay off a teacher who was selected as teacher of the year and keep a teacher of lesser ability to teach. It looks like the management did not want to make a decision concerning who was let go so they did not do anything to retain the good teacher.
Only in America.
I live in one of the top public school districts in the country (#54), and one reason the school is successful is because people pay high property taxes. I would say the mass majority of the voters in my suburb are Republican. You look at the less successful school districts and the voters in those areas are Democrats. At least this is true in Cincinnati.
fixed
"It doesn't mention the 'word union' in the article." Well, can't argue with that. If it isn't in the article then it doesn't exist. So, who do you think pushed for the legislation? Or, does it not matter because it's not in the article?
Again, misstating the Tea Party position doesn't do you any good. But, you might be right about the school being shut down, just not for the reason you think. The Tea Party would only shut down the school if it is not doing it's job of properly educating the students. The Tea Party would also provide alternatives so that parents can send their kids to schools that actually are more interested in teach kids rather than protecting the teachers and unions. What you fail to understand is that private schools that do a lousy job of teaching end up going out of business. Public schools that do a lousy job of teaching end up protesting for more money to get the job done. Do you really believe that giving a teacher who can't teach the students is going to be able to all of a sudden teach the students because you pay them more money?
does anyone notice that a country makes a huge sucking noise as it implodes and self destructs in the throes of death from greed? More superpac money, more defense spending, less taxes, no forced healthcare, kill the unions, they screamed!
I always find it curious how when it comes to the Govt having to cut spending , they always cut it in areas that affect the most amount of people. Time to make some cuts? Who goes first- the Police, Teachers and Firefighters. It never is the adinistrators or those departments while nice to have, do not serve the public need quite so much as the cops,teachers and firefighters. I suspect they figure that since they have to cut, they will do it to harm those who are not willing to continue to pay for their excesses( we, the taxpayers) the most.
The Tea Party does not want to lose teachers, firefighters and such. They want to lose corrupt politicians like in the white house now. That includes both Republicans and Democrats.
Mike Brutus and Itsabouttime, this is not about party bashing.....your comments are inflammatory and are being flagged for collapse. This is not a TeaParty issue or a GOP issue.....California, after all, is run by the democratic party at large. Address the issue, or take your vitriol to another site.
And yes, the most talented and dedicated (to the students) of teachers should trump seniority every time.
The tea party is getting what it wants because it wants reality. The liberal cities in California are waking up to reality. They aren't becoming Tea Partiers. They are looking in their checkbooks and see negative balances. They are looking to financiers and getting the finger. They don't dare ask the liberals in the community to pay higher taxes. They have no choice any more. You can't spend what you don't have.
How about instead of your Hollywood stars raising money for the POTUS to be re-elected, they could raise money for your school systems, say at $40,000 a plate dinner you damn Food stampers.
Mom2five hit the nail on the head. High property tax what did she say High property tax = high funding for the schools. I bet the teachers are higher paid compared to the low taxed property tax school areas. The budget problem exist because wages do not keep up with inflation and there for the tax dollars do not keep up with inflation. Ever heard someone say I make more now then ever but have less money? Just be carful of what you wish for the Tea Party might get it and the large majority will regret it. Then they will find away to blame what at one time would have been called the REPUBLICAN party but is now called the are called Moderate DEMOCRATS. Stop voting for a letter D or R and vote who will do the best job.
The "arguments" here are kind of sad. More Left/Right BS. What this article points out - keeping your job based solely on seniority is a poor practice. The opposite, - "Merit" based is a pipe-dream. Get rid of seniority and people will lose their jobs based on $$$. Someone with 10 years experience who gets the exact same rating as someone with 2 years experience will be the one out on the street because they will likely make more. That is the issue that unions try to address via seniority. Neither is correct. But sitting behind your keyboard and not acknowledging both sides of the argument is, well, typically American...
@ enuf - Just out of curiosity, if someone makes 10% more than someone else and there is no difference between them and one of them has to go, why would you keep the most expensive one? I would expect the more expensive employee to be of greater benefit to the company. If by experience if nothing else.
@Gneisenau, I'm not sure I understand your question in relation to your post. ALL things being equal, I would keep the lower paid employee. Someone with more experience, nullifies the statement "all things being equal" - in that case you ARE paying more for something. Additionally, I believe there is a lot to be said for loyalty - that goes both ways. TALKING about "teams" and "families" is usually about as far as it goes in today's business world.
@ enuf -
My question was based on this part of your comment. Maybe I read it wrong, but it sounded like you meant the one with 10 years seniority with the same rating as one with 2 years shouldn't be the one let go.
My response was pointing out that the more expensive one should be of greater benefit to the company or he isn't worth keeping over the more expensive employee - when you have to lay someone off. It becomes even more valid when we are talking about a bunch of people because by laying off more eexpensiveemployees, you may get my with laying fewer of them off.
On the other hand if a more expensive employee has certain skills or abilities that make him worth that much more then the best choice is probably very different. That's why I think merit based layoffs is the better way to go. But as I stated above, I believe that most companies go with FILO based layoffs is because it's safer for them to do.
Another travesty because of a union running the show. No matter who does a good job or who does a bad job, seniority is all that matters. Shameful. Then people wonder how lousy teachers get to keep their jobs and screw up the kids for decades.
The decisions were mandated by the state not the teacher unions. Try reading again
The layoffs were mandated by the state, but I highly doubt the seniority approach was state mandated. That has to do with the union and the teacher union's contract with the district.
Adam, the Union is the one who negotiated with the state that layoffs must go in order of seniority. The other thing you see in places is teachers who work hard and do a great job teaching, get seniority and decide at some point to coast out until retirement because it doesn't matter if they do a crap job because they'll be working until retirement. You see that crap in colleges, too where tenured professors will hand over all teaching duties to grad students and rarely or never step foot in class.
How does an ignorant, completely wrong comment like that get upgraded by some dolt?
Originally there was a good reason for that rule. Historically many companies prefer to lay off the older workers first because they are the highest-paid, and layoffs of them result in the greatest cost savings.
Sort of like you still see today in white-collar jobs these days.
Adam, I know the state required the "cuts"....but WHO was to be cut, was determined by the school....hence, this discussion.
Jerryb, you all complain about the UNIONS, if you really hate them that much why do you keep accepting your pay check? Wages for the most part in this country are based off of UNION negotiations. You can always go and negotiate with your BOSS if you think you are over paid. Quit blaming UNIONS for you lack of BALLS.
The company I work for just hired a sales rep who was "pink-slipped" even though his sales were 168% of his goals. Seniority ruled there, too. So it's not just in the public sector that this happens. But, as a former teacher, I hate to see this happen. I mean what's the reasoning?
What is "the reasoning"?? It is called a union contract. Most teachers and their unions don't want a system that operates based on performance.
It happens in the private sector more often and more frequently. You can be the top performer and watch your job get outsourced to another country. The company can get a GOP tax credit when it does it and replace you with an offshore resource at a fraction of the price.
I hate seeing this happen to the teachers as well, but welcome to the 21st century. The only ones who are immune to it are the 1%'s
It is indeed, my job got outsourced 6 months after the director of my company gave me a high performance award. They can pay 4 people in another country what they can pay me, but their quality of work is horrible, but the big shots at the company don't want to hear about that side of the equation.
But what you union ahcks dont get, the crappy employees either didnt exist or will lose their jobs too. The @!$%# employee isnt keeping their job while the good one gets fired, like in this article.
Learn to associate like things. Apples and oranges is how libs make arguments.
OK... So it happens in the private sector to... High performance, low performance, doesn't seem to matter. Its leadership's descretion. A lot of times it doesn't make sense. Blaming unions and not heaping blame on leadership/management makes no sense. It takes two...
And we wonder why there are unions.
I am not pro union. And I am not against unions. But I understand why people want job security. There is a contradiction to almost every arguement for or against.
trudat6445
LOL. Typical righty. If you don't agree with my comments then you are instantly a lib. The private sector keeps 'lower performers with higher senority' over higher performers with lower senority all the time. That is apples to apples. Course, when you are righty you can only see one side of the story.
P.S. Where is the union mentioned in this article?
A second interesting feature of industrial union contracts is how the
union restricts the manner in which the firm can adjust the total labor input
during a downturn. Contracts often place limitations on work-sharing and
stipulate that layoffs and recalls be based on seniority
Ill keep posting it for you since you want to keep pretending it isnt the unions rule.
And you are a lib, thats why i dont agree with you, because you live in fantasy land.
In a non-union setting, I would have to say that's getting to be a pretty rare approach. The bottom line is what matters most to companies these days, and I know that first hand. I lost my job when Bob & Bob came in and told the owners I was making too much. Never mind the fact that I was salaried and working 60+ hours a week.
I know how this teacher feels. I loved what I was doing and gave it my all, but in the end that didn't matter a single bit. It's frustrating, it messes up your confidence, and makes you forever distrustful of your job security.
THere is so much $ in CA. CALIFORNia has the fil and TV INdustry with many millionaires living there. WE NEED a fairer tax system. Those earning more than $2 million should be taxed at a higher rate. That would bring in money for education. Schools need to spend less money on tests. That's just putting public money into private companies and serves no purpose. CA has charter schools which drains the public school resrouces. There also needs to be a better way to keep good teachers. In my district (Seattle) I've seen teachers who shouldn't have their jobs, but the principal thinks they're the greattest thing since sliced bread, so they stay. I've seen special ed teachers who let their instructional assistant do all the work while they sit on their derrieres. The assistant gets half what the teacher earns. This isn't entirely a funding issue. Schools are being bled dry from having to buy all those tests, grade all those ttests, proctor all those tests, etc. But some big corporation is getting a huge profit from schools having to buy said ttest and they aren't going down without a fight.
Those earning $2 million are already taxed at a higher rate.
System double post.
I always think it's funny that people say "fair" in the same context as advocating treating individuals differently.
Also, as Peter already said, they are taxed at a higher rate. Why don't you know that?
I kind of agree with you on schools being mandated to buy tests and such, but the biggest issue to me is the stupid number of administrators school districts have. Because they use public money and have no competition, they promote their buddies willy-nilly who are then mostly protected from budget cuts when they come around.
@Holly - you are a perfect example of the current mentality. "Raise taxes in California. It doesn't affect me because I live in Washington."
Let's get back to the subject of discussion....it's not so much (if at all) about taxes (and whose responsible), but seniority trumping quality in teachers. Yes, the state required the cuts. Yes, the unions decide whose heads will roll. Unions have all but become corrupted, though their original purposes were honorable....a lot like our government these days. California going broke and thus, needing to make hard cuts, is not news.....and many sources could be blamed for that situation.
How's that bed wetting, blood sucking, liberal haven of a union working for ya now??? Unions have NEVER protected jobs. They protect only those who have been paying the mob the longest.
This wasn't even a union thing, the state of California did it. Stop blaming the unions when they weren't really involved.
Yes it was, all union contracts state the most junior employees are dropped first, its always seniority with unions..
The primary function of unions is restrict the availble number of workers who can work at a certain job. This restriction becomes a barrier to entry and thus allows unions the power to raise wages due the scarcity of workers eligible to work on that job.
I know you union thug types won't want to hear this but the truth hurts at times.
"ItsaboutTime", by the look of votes, you and Mike Brutus don't seem to be getting anywhere with your arguments......maybe "itsabouttime" you two ran along..... lol
If She is that good, she will not have a problem hiding a job. Lets hope she is smart enough to leave that state?
To holly-2516910....tax what people spend and not what people make. Shift the tax burden from the 53% that earn a legal income to the 86% that spend money in your state. Your millionaires want to buy a yacht would pay the same tax rate as a middle income earner wanting to buy a car. Simple. The only downside: politicians that can't use a tax code to buy votes.
Seniority should not be a factor in education. Our children are our most important asset. I am pro union with that one exception. The future of our children which is tied to the county's future, is at stake.
This is why the educational system in the majority of our cities are "cirling the drain". Lay-off's due to budget cuts are inevitable however the school senority system is outdated, needs to be done away with, and is long overdue. In private industry everyone is stack ranked and are all at will employed. No job should ever be guaranteed and if you fail to perform, keep your skillsets current, or fail to meet performance standards you should be let go. My concern is here we have a relatively new stellar perfomer who is being let go due to budget constraints and I will wager there are many underperforming teachers where she works who most likely cannot teach but are protected due to seniority. In NYC the UFT (United Federation of Teachers) have greedily lined their pockets protecting underperforming tenured teachers while newly hired teachers who stack highly are continually in jeopardy of being let go. Randi and Mikey (former and current presidents of the UFT) are a major embarassment to all the tax paying residnets of NYC and typify all that is wrong with the current public education system
I suggest everyone read "the Deliberate Dumbing Down of America" it is a free download in PDF format. It is scary both in verified information and length. But, it is worth the read.
That how the public employee unions work, last in, first out. Nothing to do with competence or merit. Same happened to me TWICE, the first time with the Steelworkers, the second with NEA. My union dues at work.
She's fabulous, wonderful, does an exceptional job.. She's fired. Figures! I am sorry lady.
http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/BudgetSummary/BSS/BSS.html
Its pretty apparent there is ample "slush" to cut - not to mention the $4 BILLION proposal for a "bullet train to no where" that would more than pay for ALL the "CHILDREN" in California. The real trick will be to actually get the money to the "CLASSROOM" - for the "CHILDREN".
How long are we going to allow politicians to hold our "CHILDREN", and our protection services hostage just so they can pi$$ money away on their folly?
I'd start with a 75% reduction in pay, perks and retirement package to every politician until they learn how to balance a check book! and go from there........
Thank you Prop 13.
34 years later it's still wreaking havoc with California residents who expect basic services from their government.
Proposition 13 (officially named the People's Initiative to Limit Property Taxation) was an amendment of the Constitution of California enacted during 1978, by means of the initiative process. It was approved by California voters on June 6, 1978. It was declared constitutional by the United States Supreme Court in the case of Nordlinger v. Hahn, 505 U.S. 1 (1992). Proposition 13 is embodied in Article 13A of the Constitution of the State of California.[1]
The most significant portion of the act is the first paragraph, which limited the tax rate for real estate:
The proposition decreased property taxes by assessing property values at their 1975 value and restricted annual increases of assessed value of real property to an inflation factor, not to exceed 2% per year. It also prohibited reassessment of a new base year value except for (a) change in ownership or (b) completion of new construction.
In 1978 Prop 13 decreased property values and limited increases. SO - 1% a year is the MAXIMUM amount they could be increased.
In 1978 no one envisioned every student in the state would need a computer. The PC hadnt been invented yet.
In 1978 no one envisioned fire season would become a 12 month/year season.
In 1978 no one envisioned a world of terrorism and what that would cost state and local governments.
In 2012, we have the Grover Norquist no-taxes Republican pledge that federal lawmakers must agree to if they want to survive the bloodlust that is the extreme element of the Republican Party.
The world has changed since 1978. When they've had enough, California residents will do something about it. Until such time, they'll suffer the consequences of something done a generation or so before them.
Randy from Maine.
Why be good??
Just last a long time.
Score one for the unions !!!
Take that Scott Walker wannabees.
In a nutshell, this is why public unions are bad for America. Instead of replacing teachers close to retirement, burned out or those with the most tenuous skills, you cut your best? How is this approach benefitting anyone?
With the complete support of and co-ordination with the democrat party the public emploee unuions have been screwing the american taxpayer at all levels (Fed, state, county and municipal)for 50 years The american taxpayer has received no benefit by having unionized employees including teachers. All the benefits of unionization have accrued to the union members and particularly their hog like bosses and the democrat party. Our schools are in sorry state despite having tripled our spending in real terms on per pupil outlays since 1967 (check it out in the archives) , our taxes have never been higher and someone please point out to me the benefits taxpayers have seen from the outrageous benefits and wages our enemies in the public sector have scammed out of the people.
Rick,
My sister lost her job same way in San Diego 10 yrs ago - all folks with < 5 yrs tenure were fired one wk before school was to start with no chance at that late date to get hired at a nearby district. She ended up moving to Idaho and LOVES it there. As a native Californian, I left to serve in the military and will NOT be retiring in CA. You could not pay me to live in that union dominated broken state again.
And why do they layoff by seniority and not performance? This great moment in education history brought to you by the teacher's union.
I see people posting they are pro-union with this one exception. Really? So you support the destruction of the American car manufacturing sector by the UAW? Oh, wait. Except for that too. And so on...
Thank you do nothing congress, if you'd just pass President Obama's jobs bill none of this would be happening. Especially in a time of major cuts to state budgets and the economy, sitting on your hands doing nothing is not the answer.
LOL - you are truly amusing, as if any of what you said is related. You did get to post a DNC talking point, however, so collect your $$ for trolling.
This is EXACTLY what Republicans wanted. Cut education funding so the good teachers disappear, therefore, the masses are less educated leading them to believe the lies told by Republicans and their right wing religious zealots preaching the fairy tales of the bible.
The plan is coming together nicely... the Pubs always knew this was possible, as they have seen it for the past couple decades in the southern states, so now the plan is to use budget shortfalls to attack the intelligent democratic states. I'm sure Minnesota is next, even tho we have budget surpluses here and record low unemployment, they keep trying to use these excuses to implement their social agenda.
That is a wacky post! CA is primarily a liberal Democratic state.
My point exactly... they have snuck their way into the liberal states now.
IH8PUBS,
Seriously? Why would conservatives want to dumb down the culture, which would inhibit folks' ability to critically dissect all the flaws in the progressive philosophy? We WANT critical thinkers who understand and apply the principles upon which the USA was founded.
Hate to have to tell you, but this is the result of union rules for seniority if layoffs occur, not some Repub idea. The union didn't cause the layoffs, but they negotiated and forged an agreement that if they did occur it would be by the order they specify. Which technically makes this a liberal/democrat/union problem.
I don't play party politics and there is always plenty of blame to go around, so you could say Republican stonewalling on taxes caused the money shortage for education, but the union rules caused the teacher of the year to be the one laid off. btw- I'm neither repub nor democrat.
Absolutely! I mean, get real IH8PUBS, why would we moderates/conservatives want to get on a sinking ship caused by progressive thinking? "Sneak into" your liberal state?? You'd be so lucky....
Blame her lay-off on the teacher's union, not the county or state of the school where she works. The unions are the ones who says who is going to get laid off, not the county or state. When will people finally open their eyes and realize that the unions are the problem!!!!!
This exceptional teacher deserves an exception from the state and there is no valid reason not to do that right away!
Governments always move to reduce public services: teachers, police, fire, trash and related items because those are the things they know the public wants and needs. So by proposing to reduce the things that we need and want they seek to gather support not to cut spending at all, likely by raising taxes again. This approach is simply dishonest. What we need is an honest government that will cut waste. Everyone would applaud that, but it means the government officials actually need to know what is happening and take effective action. It is much easier to just threaten us with loss of essential services until we give them more money.
In a nutshell, this is why Congress should not go on record that they will go above and beyond to make any President a one term President. It gives a breeding ground for idiots who love to spread propaganda and misinformation.
To me, it sounds like a beaurocratic carfuffle, over anything to do with unions. Remember the reduced class size idea...that forced states to hire teachers it did not really need, about a decade or so ago? It sounds like this teacher may have been one of those. Though a good teacher, there is a possibility she never should have been hired, along with a lot of other teachers.
So while the drooling idiots will blame unions, and blindly make the assertion (libel?) that only bad teachers are kept...there is a possibility this is one of those teachers who would never have been hired if it had not been for the reduced class size idea.
In times of tough budget cuts, the first thing to go are good, but unnecessary, ideas....and though good people are affected, it's nothing personal. Welcome to the club.
But is it okay for a president to say he should be a one term president?
Why is no one asking why they let teachers go and not the janitors, and asst to the asst to the secretaries asst. The 'feel' good psyc nuts, there are plenty of jobs that are not in the classroom that could be cut.
In general, education is in trouble - and prime for an overhaul from K12 all the way up.
Highest paid public employee in Texas? Football coach. High School graduation rate in Texas? 75.4%...which means 1 in 4 kids is a dropout. But hey, let's go to the game ...
From 2005 to 2011, the number of retiring California school administrators drawing $100k+ in pensions jumped 650%.
California school administrators average annual pay is $168,000 - 56% more than just 10 years ago.
So you have the collision of an outrageous retirement pension coupled to outrageously blooming salaries - ALL OF IT IN ADMINISTRATION. More than a third of CA's six-figure pensioners earn more each year in retirement than they ever did ON THE JOB. High School grad rate in CA?? 74.4%
Anyone want to guess why lowly teachers are getting the ax??? You know - the teachers who actually EDUCATE the kids??? WTF? Priorities are very wrong somewhere.
Anybody want to talk about tuition rates at colleges? Presidents at 36 private colleges across American earned more tha $1 MILLION in 2009. Median compensation is $385,909.
yeah, in many public schools/colleges, the presidents or chief administrators are way over paid, earning half million or more, not just in CA but across US. and yet, to compensate such high pays, they raise tuition every year on poor students, which is the major reason of student loan crisis.
unless they could limit those top pays in public education system, there will be no quality public education in CA or anywhere else in US.
Which means 3 in 4 kids graduate, nice spin though.
CA is perhaps the worst state with high budget deficit, much like US government itself except CA cannot print their own money.