This is sad, especially their excitement over their changing fortunes. I guess it's pretty lucrative to kill teenagers in Florida.

It seems as if they did not leave much in the fund for O'Mara. (Of course, O'Mara is representing Zimmerman pro bono.)

innocent until proven Guilty. Looks pretty guilty to me.

YAHTC..

All of the funds (unspent) are currently under independent third party control and will be disbursed as needed for the intended purposes.

What they did was clearly wrong, but we still need to refer to facts that are correct.

we’ll just, (inaudible) oh, and when you get home, please um, please pay off all the bills.

Okay, because now I have access.

Right and then you can go

Okay

into mine and make sure you pay the right American Express and everything. It should say HH American Express.

****

Well, anything that needed to be paid off, I did. Right. Um, the only thing that I need to figure out is, who our car insurance is through

*******************

Okay. The Walmart, all that stuff.

They’re, I called all those companies to see the balances, and I paid them all off.

Oh, good, good, good.

Yeah, and I even played, paid like your mom, 'cause you know you were paying her monthly.

Right.

Um

Did you pay her off or just pay her monthly?

Oh, I just paid her monthly thing. I wasn’t sure what you wanted me to do so I just paid it. I didn’t know what that total was.

No, that’s fine, that’s fine. You’re doing great. And uh, yeah. I uh, I even paid my school.

PBR StreetGang to Snatchbox.......do you copy?? Dog one is closed, proceed to flanking manuever and drop escape booty 7 clicks NE over? Firefight ended in termination and am pinned down Snatch, call in fast movers to get LZ clear..........Oh, need canteen ration filled preferably twinkie money.......over and out.

less $30,000

apple, pie, charlie, alpha, beta, helix, moot... there I just spoke in code to tell you I speak a previously unknown language called sense... What part of innocent until proven guilty do people not understand, the media will cause this to be declared a miss-trial if they keep this up... SHOW BOTH SIDES!!!

"Don’t forget that his credibility is of some relevance but much more important are the facts of the case," said O'Mara. "So if we have forensic facts, if we have eyewitness or ear-witness facts, if we have injuries that were sustained and what they mean, those are the facts that a jury should really look at. They may never need to get to the point of George’s credibility because the facts themselves may speak loud enough to give the true signal."

That's what really matters, and in the long run, there is no way he will be found guilty. It was a 'political prosecution' to calm racial tensions, and the only reason they charged him was their hope that he could be talked into a plea bargain.

The charges against his wife are just more 'find something to punish them so we don't have race riots'.

Here's some advice for Zimmerman. Get John Edwards layer. Dudes good.

Incorrect Johnny boy Zimmerman chased Trayvon down first after profiling him then Trayvon decided to take action not knowing what Zimmerman's intentions were. I'd do the same if someone suspicious were following me

ric:

comment #1.3 referred only to the state of the money in the fund while Zimmerman was in jail, before O'Mara created the new fund situation with management under an independent third party.

Maybe. But I wouldn't be stupid enough to perjure myself.

This whole thing is absurd! I can't believe that those Prosecutors can't find anything more productive to do. They are milking this thing to death - and it is certainly not going to get them anywhere. No jury in Florida is going to convict Zimmerman of second degree murder - period. It is unfortunate that Trayvon Martin got killed, but judging from the evidence he certainly wasn't an angel out for a stroll in his neighborhood. Stand your Ground Law -- good or bad? I would feel a lot more secure carrying something and having the Law with me than against me with people like Martin roaming the streets. It is unfortunate, but it is a sign of our times.

You are correct. The Prosecution was "upset" that Judge Lester set bail where he did. They wanted "no bond" or $1 Mil. Ther were upset that O'Mara called one of their lead investigators to the stand at the bond hearing, and they were "angry" that O'Mara made that nvestigator look "foolish" with his answers.

This is payback. This is tit for tat. They are struting (flaunting) the Power of THe State.Their objective is to maintain pressure on the defense and, with charges against the wife, give the defense some "busy" work.

Lying to the Court is serious, but the Judge stated GZ did not commit purjury, the wife did. The Judge did entertain a new hearing regarding the issue. GZ allowed the mis-statements and in doing so, mis-led the Court as to funds available. The Judge wants to hear first hand from GZ why that happened.

We will see at the June 29 hearing what the final order from Judge Lester will be. Release on higher bond (perhaps all cash) or remand until trial. I really don't see the Judge holding the hearing for only the intent of putting GZ on the stand to further berate him.

If he was not going to entertain bond he would not hear the motion. It would have been denied and the order instituted as permanent.

What part of innocent until proven guilty do people not understand

What part of guilty do you not understand? Perjury is perjury... even by omission. His credibility is a key part (if not the only part) of his defense in regards to the murder charge... and that is in the toilet. But the perjury charges for both Zimmermans... Well those are definately not up for debate. She will be charged first, and he will be charged after the initial murder trial. And we have concrete evidence of perjury.

less $30,000

And the other 20k... that we know of so far.

We're now seeing his true colors shinning through. I bet now all those that gave him money are not feeling so good now.

Does this change a DAMN thing regarding the shooting? This does open him up to a whole bunch of perjury charges etc, but changes nothing as far as the actual shooting is concerned. I was leaning towards complete acquittal but now I am leaning toward jail time for EXTREME STUPIDITY!!!!

alan290

Hey, the guy doesn't want to wind up broke. Can you blame him? You would do the same thing.

And, William Cooper- Its Trayvon Martin that started the physical fight and almost beat Zimmerman to death. Witnesses say this and went to call the police. Luckily, somehow Zimmerman was able to pull his gun and save his own life. YOU can't handle the truth.

Alan,

And you were there to witness all this alan?? not one witness has said that Trayvon chased down or firstly attacked GZ.... only ur delusional minds would you believe such non-sense.

What we know for sure, GZ followed TM.. somehow a fight broke out - and GZ was probably getting his azz spanked.. .so like the pussy cat that he is... brings out a gun to kill the 17yr old. So in my humble opinion, he's guilty. You don't kill someone because you are getting ur azz handed to you. After all, you followed an unarmed kid.... who probably thought he was fighting for his life from a robber, child molester, or stalker... I bet you no one here can deny this fact, but to call the young man a thug..because they cant face themselves in the mirror.

YAHTC...

I understand what you were posting. The solicitation was for his defense and living expenses. Never was stated as intended soley to be used for "paying his attorney".

I thought that the State of Florida had a LAW forbidding marrying your twin sister!

William Cooper, what profiling technique do you use to decide who is "suspicious" enough to justify tackling them to the ground and repeatedly banging their head into the cement because you think they might be following you? After all, Zimmerman just "decided to take action not knowing what Trayvon's intentions were." Maybe you could try something a little less drastic first, like "hey dude, why are you following me?" or something else short of a berserker attack? I hope I never find myself walking behind you without a gun on me, so I'll be able to defend myself when you try to beat me to death because a "suspicious guy is following you." You are making a pretty good case for Zimmerman, although I don't think that was your intent.

Tunde Akins,

right on, right on!!!!!!!! oh yeah, i'm white!!!

I totally agree with you and people are down playing the fact that they arrested his wife and put him back in jail but if he was indeed doing this with his money and lying about it then which version of his 5 statements that he made are we to believe. I think credibility is a big part of this case cause Trayvon is in the ground and cant tell his story so the only story we have is Zimmerman's. And I dont know about anyone else but he is looking pretty shifty to me. But I guess we have to see what else the prosecution has fact wise but prosecutors usually dont take on a case they dont feel they can win. And Zimmerman's lawyer just keeps giving excuses for Zimmerman cause he knows he has a problem on his hands. But I do have a feeling Zimmerman in the end will walk and that will be an injustice to Trayvon. It is a sad case and all I can think of is the terror Trayvon must have felt in the moments before he was shot facing down a gun!! His skittles sure didnt help him much. And by the way I am Canadian and I dont see any racism or politics in this case and I dont understand why that always comes into every case I read about. Just sayin....

Apparently, JohnyOnTheSpot has proof that G Zimmerman stood his ground as G Zimmerman confronted the hooded teen hoodlumS because G Zimmerman notice through his side and rear view mirror that Trayvon Martin following his car for awhile. The gun was for self protection due to the recent crime spree that swept through the gated community by blacks.... He is the defense's star witness!!!!

? SERIOUS ?

"Don’t forget that his credibility is of some relevance but much more important are the facts of the case," said O'Mara.

O'Mara's statement leads a person to believe he knows that Zimmerman is guilty.

Zimmerman's deadly actions lack morality.

Concerning the 2nd degree murder charge, for duo, their line of defense is "prove it."

Zimmerman will be tried in the State of Florida, the same court system that could not convict Casey Anthony. The prosecutor has no prayer and is why Zimmerman did not do a White Bronco OJ on I-4............

i don't pretend to know who is at fault and who is right, neither should any of you. his credibility is pretty much irrelevant because the burden of proof is on the prosecution, whose witnesses also have damaged their credibility by changing their stories. this will go nowhere.

Ken Johnson............Thank you, I haven't laughed that hard in along time. His twin sister, still laughing.

Don't think there is racism in this case. If there was, there would have been more said by the Prosecutor. The racism aspect may come into play because how quickly this case was dismissed by the local authority. The worst part was the demure of the local police and prosecution team when confronted by the parents and their immediate attorney. It did not spread until the state and national media gotten hold of the story. Was it biased assumptions to have caused the local authority to have not taken this case seriously in the earlier days?

I don't believe the parents claimed G Zimmerman was racist. Nor did they claim the case was racially motivated. However, there was definitely biases that prevented early thorough investigation and collaboration by the authority. So whose fault is that??? Martin's family??? It took nearly 24 days of non-action before the national media took hold of the case... Race issue came into play only after the release of the dispatcher's tape and prior calls and reports field by 911.

How many racist say or believe that they are racist? Only your fellow peers can judge.

@RoyWilson, I don't know if G Zimmerman will be found guilty or not-guilty of the charge by his peers. I believe the critical portion of the case is the framing of STAND YOUR GROUND definition accepted by the jurors. There is nothing racist about this case. The racism are only generated by 2 groups, RACIST themselves (who use race baiting or reverse racism), and minorities who are using the term loosely due to inaction from the authorities. To suggest the arrest and the charge of Mrs. Zimmerman is to calm the people from suggesting racism is absolutely STUPID and RACE BAITING. Mrs Zimmerman willfully lied under oath before a judge. Are you suggesting that she should go free? If that is the case, then why would you prosecute or berate minorities (on your other threads) that misuse their welfare funds???? NO, I believe you have a variety of standards for different people....

Like my earlier accusation of Republican Politicians and fans of moving the goal post (or point of reference). I see your arguments no different.

**************************************************************************** Love it !!!!!

All those fools that sent him money that he used for his credit card bills . I love it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*******************************************************************************************

ric: Highlighting

You guys scare the bejeesus out of me. The money donated to the Zimmermans was for legal and living expenses. Who is going to pay your bills if you can't work? I'm pretty sure the duck doesn't cover being unable to work due to death threats. This mans life has been destroyed. It is not for me to decide the case. Having served jury duty I would never have a jury decide my fate. Give it to the Judge and let him decide based on the facts.

Leodelion, make certain that you're available in the afternoon on XX/XX/2012 for the G Zimmerman's defense case. Please, I beg of you. Please make yourself available... We just can't wait!!! Oh, please be care of not run your mouth and let the prosecution read about the defense's case!!! We certainly don't want them homosexuals and black perverts know about our secret ingredients... Too many of fellow white fellow distributors and makers will loose $ if they know how we make the stuff that we sell to them.... Otherwise, I have got to send Tommy on the horse to your house and shut down you and your cousin's operation...

When one is arrested and incarcerated Constitutional Rights are forfeited through the commission of a crime. Perjury is a serious charge and brings into question credibility of defensibility. Disclosure of ALL personal funds precluded the Judge's Bailment Decision. Of course they had to speak in code as all conversations are monitored and transcripted. Not much cerebellar function here. Mail is monitored, censored and documented incoming and outgoing. GZ will be tried as to intent of his killing TM not his guilt or innocence. GZ was the adult in the situation and had a choice. He chose to shoot to kill. Anyone who refuses Emergency Medical Transport with such severe wounds, risking uncontrolled bleeding, concussion, infection, breathing difficulties from septal fracture, either has impaired judgment issues (which should have been assessed by EMS Personnel AND Law Enforcement.) or doesn't care about his own well being.

@Mo, the fund donated to Zimmerman are for the defense of his case, not his living expenses. That is also why the fund doesn't cover BAIL! Defending your case can happen behind the bar as well. It was G Zimmerman's decision to use the donated fund for his bail, as it was his decision to mislead the judge at his bail hearing of both his financial situation and his 2nd passport.

Mrs. Zimmerman is old enough to make decision for herself. She knows she did wrong. Did the prosecution target her? Of course! Why shouldn't they? Mrs. Zimmerman chose to put herself in that position. If you disagree, then you need to defend the person who lie before our court of law... Some of you sound like the jackasses who stand before the traffic and small claims court lying through their teeth because they think it is just too minor and who is it really hurting????

Why did I pick the Republican politicians and fans? Because they chose to take a stand on moral grounds. Yet when they are caught, the rules suddenly did not apply... Of course there are pond scums all around, but it is those who call attention to themselves by pointing to others, yet they comitt the same crime. Hyprocrites...

A wanna-be thug's and a knucklehead's paths crossed one night. The wanna-be thug lost.

The Zimmermans are done for. The current corrupt, racist administration has seen to that. This goes to the top of the Justice department and the White House.

The goals are; to prevent the race riots that would occur if the Zimmermans walk; strike fear into the hearts of those who would take on the security of themselves, their families and their property, instead of cowering while relying on the government to protect them; and to make sure we all know the new protected class of thugs, government wards, and Obama voters are not to be challenged.

notacommie-1732574... Your problem is obvious. Tell me, does it hurt your ears when you try to pull your head out or do you just leave it permanently stuck up there? I won't get into it with you here because I was taught to never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. BTW, your prejudice is glaringly obvious, you Neanderthal. Why don't you just jump off the planet? You're definitely on the wrong one. We're trying to evolve here and people like you are holding us back. Go away.

All this BS is about the state does not want Zimmerman to able to be represented by a decent council. They want to railroad him with a cheap court appointed attorney that doesn't know Sh-- from Shinola.

Being that Zimmerman is a white-Hispanic maybe the code was in spanish. OR maybe ebonics, that certainly would be in code.

Give this crap a rest. The media has already created a mistrail anyway.

the poor stupid bastard; must have the IQ of a retarded donkey; his attorney must have told him that all phone calls from a jail or prison are monitored, he has done serious damage to his case, and really pissed off the Judge.

I still predict that GZ will either be acquitted, or possibly even see the TM charges waived. He may get some time for perjury, however...

@ thturd ... ever heard of innocent until PROVEN guilty?

And you really don't know who is making and consuming "LEAN"?

Isn't it nice when the media gets to run the legal system, they get to manipulate the outcome, make it anyway they want. if I was in jail I would still try to pay my bills so when I get out there is still something left now let the legal system figure this out you can't say guilty till the jury reaches a verdict, Morons. may be one thing or the other wait and see. I cant tell you how much I hate this coverage (manipulation). so what if he tries to talk in some obvious code he might want to pay his bills and the court does not concern themselves with such matters, but the debtors do. what if he owed you money. you dumb fux cant see beyond this sh!t. get a life and pay your bills no matter what pay your bills. it all comes out in the wash, and his wife has to live in the mean time, and she is not on trial what would you do. so far Zimmerman has been jumping through all the hoops, he turned himself in, he never ran, he will stand trial what the fuk do you want. what ever happens we cant bring Trayvon back, lets see what went down that day and forget the other crap. damn there are more idiots in this country then I ever imagined could possibly exist in the whole world.

Okay. So let's assume that all of you hillbillies that think that Martin turned and attacked Zimmerman. It is well-established that Zimmerman was following Martin, even after the police dispatcher told him not to.

Doesn't this mean that Trayvon Martin was simply standing his ground? Or does that law only apply to rednecks with guns?

This kid is walking through a neighborhood he has a right to be in, and some creepy stranger is following him, won't leave him alone. Florida law says Martin doesn't have to run, he can defend himself with any means available, right?

So if Martin was standing his ground first, doesn't that make Zimmerman guilty?

The solicitation was for his defense and living expenses.

LOL - that's a good one! Oh, wait - you were serious? Credit card bills are living expenses?

It's interesting how most of the racists have gone back into their holes. Probably embarrassed by the amount of money they donated toward Zimmerman's "living expenses".

Uh-oh! Looks like someone really is lying and covering up thier fabrication. You know how you can tell when someones lying? The story doesn't fit the evidence. Judge Judy says it best... "I'm not stupid."

""Vyor Derfavia Facebook

apple, pie, charlie, alpha, beta, helix, moot... there I just spoke in code to tell you I speak a previously unknown language called sense... What part of innocent until proven guilty do people not understand, the media will cause this to be declared a miss-trial if they keep this up... SHOW BOTH SIDES!!!"

What side don't you think they aren't showing?

And do you not know the difference between a News website and a court of law? Nothing they print will cause a "miss-trial" in a trail that isn't even happening yet nor would it even if it were. LOL

I know each side will spin the facts to favor their stance. But the more I learn about this guy and now his accomplice, the more I think he is a lowlife P.O.S looking to profit off of this. Oh, and this is not about politics or even gun laws, this is about an aggressive individual action that resulted in a young mans death.

The man still has a family and has to pay bills, whether in jail or not. The mortgage company wants their money and they don't give a d@mn if you're locked up. If individuals sent money to him, or anyone in that situation, I don't believe the government can dictate how that money can be used. I personally would not reveal how much money I have. It's not relevant to the trial

How is it that so many people go on and on about "it's none of the government's business how he spends his money... you know you would do the same thing, this guy is just trying to protect his family." You mean YOU would do the same thing. YOU would lie. And YOU think you have the right to define what other people's intentions are... just like George Zimmerman did to Trayvon Martin. Okay, let's say that - even though you are entirely wrong - I stipulate to those facts, exactly as presented. No matter. Because those facts are irrelevant. Perjury is about lying to the court, it has absolutely nothing to do with how you spend your money in a personal crisis. Lying by omission is no different from openly speaking a falsehood. So George and Shellie get on the jailhouse horn and do this stupid pig latin code talk that apparently is confusing only to themselves - sheesh, they cover the same ground over and over and over and still have to rehash it again the next time they talk - and it's obviously about transferring money. Whhaaaaaattt??? You mean "the Peter Pan" really means "the Pay Pal account?" Cleeeeevvvver :P If their conversations belied nothing criminal about what they had told the court about their finances, then why talk in code? And this simple minded, baby talk - that they so arrogantly believe nobody is smart enough to crack - demonstrates, to me, exactly, the same kind of hubris that would lead this chump to stalk a teenager through his own neighborhood on his OWN, SELF-ENDOWED, IMAGINARY authority. He's not a cop. He didn't 't have the right to act like one. I'm not arrogant enough to say what you chump Zimmerman lovers would do. I only know that I personally would not pretend that my thin and self-appointed "authority" as a neighborhood watch volunteer entitles me to to act against someone else on my personal intuition that someone is up to no good. My god, if the cops acted like that, nobody would be safe even in their own homes.

Boy, I know some of you feel stupid giving to that defense fund. I know some of you feel like the Mets owner who gave to the Bernie Madoff scam. For all the ones who are saying no one should tell them how to spend the money, how do you feel knowing that this money was spent to cover expenses not used for this trial? I get that he left his job because of the intense scrutiny, but maybe, just maybe, that is where the money from Mom he borrowed came in! Did his wife work or did she go into hiding also? Did she continue with her schooling? He hadn't been in jail more than 2 days and now we are paying off all our bills? Either I'm expecting to go to jail for a long time or expecting an extra long trial. At least he had a hoodie to hide his face when he was on the road! Where the hell is Geraldo and his "thug" banter on that admission? As Alanis Morrissette said, "Isn't it ironic, don't you think?"

Stay tuned America you are witnessing the equivalent of a mob lynching complements of Mr. Obama, Mr. Holder, Al Tawana Brawley Sharpton, Jesse can"t keep it in his pants Jackson. Yesterday they held a hearing in Florida on the stand your ground law, how convenient of the left machine to get this done prior to this high-profile trial. I surely don't know whether you're guilty or innocent Mr. Zimmerman I wasn't there that night but you deserve a fair trial. In my opinion the above-mentioned parties have done everything to prevent that.

Stay tuned America you are witnessing the equivalent of a mob lynching complements of Mr. Obama, Mr. Holder, Al Tawana Brawley Sharpton, Jesse can"t keep it in his pants Jackson. Yesterday they held a hearing in Florida on the stand your ground law, how convenient of the left machine to get this done prior to this high-profile trial. I surely don't know whether you're guilty or innocent Mr. Zimmerman I wasn't there that night but you deserve a fair trial. In my opinion the above-mentioned parties have done everything to prevent that.

Honey, they're on to us!

Dash dash dash, dot dot dot, dash dash dash!

Dash dash dash, dot dot dot, dash dash dash!

Dash dash dash, dot dot dot, dash dash dash!

Hes got codes on me, hes not stopping, I'm pulling my gun to shoot him. ; ] This was after the 911 call,... Yes there is a loser and obese wife looking suspicious, I think they have codes on them.. Then! I shot the couple who had codes on me, they were coming at me with codes a blazing. I had to defend myself I was in fear for my life.. ;]

In reality they are the true criminals and have been arrested as such. KNOWING criminals who knew and know what they are doing. He willfully with pre meditation murdered that boy as My readers know. He has been exposed as the fraud he is and his wife has participated.. The only logical conclusion with a passport undisclosed is he was planning on running. ; ]

Cheers

Codes? I hope they are kidding. Maybe they just had ESP.
LOL

The man still has a family and has to pay bills, whether in jail or not.

It's interesting to me that posters like you were trying to convince us that he did not have access to those funds at all not so long ago. My, how opinions conveniently change to fit the new facts that emerge - much like Zimmerman's story.

@Moonwolf

I have made no comments about this case until today, so please look into my history and show me where I tried to tell you anything about his access to the funds. You can't.

A simple apology will suffice. I don't wish to humiliate you.

@Moonwolf

I have made no comments about this case until today, so please look into my history and show me where I tried to tell you anything about his access to the funds. You can't.

Please re-read my post. I said "posters like you", as in the Z defenders. I did not say you, specifically.

And, please tell me how credit card bills would be considered day-to-day living expenses. Zimmerman saw a big payday and could not wait to get his hands on it!

Gorge and She Lie Zimmerman...what a pair!

realitychecksin...THANK YOU!!! Whew, you got it sooooo right! That gave me a good belly laugh...LORL!!!

Jack Bauer style... ?? lol, because it is a FOX show.

Lying sleaze bag George probably got his partner in crime wife to inflict those wounds on him

he has a partner!!! OMG OMG!!! IF A RANDOM GUY SAYS IT IT MUST BE TRUE!!!! I WILL TELL THE JUDGE RIGHT AWAY!!!!...

really??? Now do you see the stupidity here?

BS. Were you there David? Maybe you should contact the police.

That isn't what actual witnesses are saying.

he has a partner!!! OMG OMG!!! IF A RANDOM GUY SAYS IT IT MUST BE TRUE!!!! I WILL TELL THE JUDGE RIGHT AWAY!!!!...

I'm here no reason to worry. George Zimmerman has been found guilty from wild speculation made by justina777.

Dont panic George Z !!!!

BillOreilly and Sean Hannity will find a way to slant it in your favor again .....

FAUX never met a Liar they did not love

That isn't what actual witnesses are saying.

Really? Last I checked there were no witnesses who hadn't recanted other than the witness speaking to Martin at the time the altercation started who heard discourse between Martin and Zimmerman thus destroying Zimmermans "Martin sucker punched me in the back of the head" claim. Zimmerman can't stop lying (be it by omission or bald-faced) so his "self-defense" claim is pretty much in the @!$%#ter. O'mara has all but given up. You can see it in his face everytime he has to make a statement attempting damage control because Zimmerman is a loose cannon with no moral compass. There isn't a sane juror in the world who is going to believe Zimmerman was "almost beat to death" and "only shot to save his life". The forensic evidence doesn't play out. If Zimmerman had been injured as badly as he claimed he would have been sent to the hospital where all injuries would have been documented in great detail... not taken to the PD right after the shooting. If you are on the edge of consciousness pinned down and having your head beat into the ground as Zimmerman claims there is no way you would be able to wrestle your arms free, get the weapon from your waistband behind/under your assailant, and fire on your assailant at an intermediate range without the assailant disarming you.

@justina777

And MSNBC will find another way to prosecute Zimmerman in the media.

Calm down jd

Bonehead GZ is doing a fine job of that all by himself, jdmbo

ALL he had to do was tell the TRUTH

Not convinced that MSNBC adviced stupid GZ to LIE to the Judge

I could be wrong .....lol

@ #3.7

From practicing and competing in Judo I HAVE been on the bottom and choked out. I found when the light starts fading and things start getting quite you have one more attempt to break away before "patting out".

I know a lot of people, but don't know even one fool who would not save his life by shooting an attacker with his head being slammed down. If GZ had patted out he would have lost his life.

The man is being punished by the media for staying alive.I dont care how much money he had.He hasnt run away and the way everyone piles on the man,why not just form a mob and hang him.Its all disgusting.

Yep, that's why he had all of that blood on his (Zimmerman's) shirt. The kid had him in the beat-down position and was pounding his head in the ground, when he pulled his pistol and shot UP at the kid. Yeah, he was pounding his head on the sidewalk, but wait......they were in the grass? But like you say, I wasn't there.

I don't understand what the big deal is. If the money is donated to George Zimmerman, shouldn't he be able to spend it any way he wants? i can understand that they brought perjury charges against his wife, but it should have nothing to do with George. It appears to me that this is one more "red herring" being slung by radicals who didn't get the reaction that they wanted with their skittles, hoodies, marches and over-priced bus rides.

PowerSourcePC... you said: "What a total bunch of idiots." Well... water seeks it's own level so, I guess you'd be the expert here.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein

Who in their right mind would give money to Zimmerman. There is more stupid people than I first realized. And to think they all carry guns. And vote!

That's based on your opinion and beliefs. no one is punishing him for staying alive as you put it but some of us do have a serious problem with the fact that he killed a 17 year old kid. What mob are you talking about? All anyone that thinks he may have comitted a crime has asked is that he face a jury and let the evidence be presented. People that think he hasn't done anything keep presenting the situation as if Zimmerman was in some life and death struggle but the evidence doesn't show that. His injuries weren't life threatening nor do they prove who initiated first contact. A fight took place but we still don't know who initiated,well some of us don't know but you seem to have decided.

Since when did George Zimmerman become a Navajo name? It was the Navajo's that were the code talkers, right? Poor George is going down the chute wrapped in $100 dollar bills and the attorneys for prosecution and defense are both ripping them from his carcass as he sides by. American Justice. Don't you love it?

Use Fox news for Zimmer info...? Fox news is fake news. Fact. The idea for an all GOP slanted news with some other news sprinkled in was thought up back in 70's by GOP and finally implemented. Do search on...fox news dumber ...and see actual studies that show you are dumber for watching fox news. Fact!

He'll be acquitted.

And lol@ calling FOX fake news, while believing CNN and MSNBC propaganda are real news. I mean holy crap, is that funny.

They're all fake news, wake up. It's all propaganda. They are in bed with those whom you claim to dislike...look up their lobbying records in the media. Look up who some of these people are married to, look up their "past" jobs (some worked for the CIA, etc.). There's no need to be a conspiracy theorist or dislike one side vs the other side...they're all lying to yu constantly.

Please wake up already.

Fact: People who watch NO NEWS are more informed then FAUX NEWS viewers.

Fact: People saying GZ is not guilty are Fox News viewers, because Fox News says so.

Fact: I stopped watching Fox News when Ronald Reagan died. They wouldn't shut up for a moment of silence during the funeral. Bunch of blow hards.

@3.10

You are full of it. If you are on the edge of consciousness from having your head BEAT REPEATEDLY into the ground (not from lack of oxygen as you imply) you are not going to have the physical or mental capacity to overpower your assailant, pull a weapon from under them, and fire a shot. If you are or had been a practitioner of martial arts as you claim you would not even make such an absurd statement.

So how often are you on the bottom fighting for your life that makes you the to go to expert on it all?? Have you ever heard of adrenaline?? Many people get an extreme rush of it when in life or death situations. Unless you where standing right there you have no real idea of what you're talking about!!!! SO sick of people making judgements based on what they hear on ANY news source!!! No one of them is any better or more reliable than the other on a good day. Recently it's been a fight to see who can be the most biased, bigoted and racist organization!!! What the hell ever happened to real journalism????????????? Scratch that, what happened to Americans in general?? SO busy fighting over which party is right or wrong etc.. and unfortunately that seems to be far more important to most that what actually happens to the majority of Americans when we are lead by ALL these loser, liar, theif poiticians of BOTH parties!!!!

He is not making a good impression about his character or ethical behavior that is for sure. Once again, i stand behind what I said earlier with "he should have not been armed as a neighborhood watch" and "he should not have pursued anyone-watch and report is the purpose of the watch group". He is obviously trying to be slick and failing miserably.

Oh and to the person that was trying to get this into a political debate...again...as most stories are in newsvine, you need a hobby. Seriously, you need to go out and start collecting comic books because you are lacking in the brain department...actually I like comic books so that would be insulting those that have a creative side...which you do not. So how about this: go out and collect oddly shaped blades of grass? That will keep you excited and occupied with your level of brain capacity.

I'm with Vet on this one. Trayvon already got his punishment for his role, but Zimmerman as the armed adult and self-appointed authority figure who made a series of piss-poor decisions which caused the whole thing also needs to be held fully accountable for his actions. He makes gun-owners (like myself) look bad, and the people defending his stupidity do us no favors either.

As far as this coded bs - the guy's a liar. I knew that already by his obviously fake story involving a ninja popping up behind him, dropping a sick movie-script line, and then pummeling him. But this just goes to show what a blowhard he is - it must be lovely to pander for the money of ignorant knuckleheads who buy Trayvon Martin shooting targets and donate to his 'kill-a-black-kid-and-get-away-with-it fund' -- I'm sure they don't mind him trying to hide their money. Who wants to bet his wife will take off with it before the trial is over? That would be poetic.

Zimmerman should have kept his ass in his car.Then Trayvon could have watch the 2nd half of the NBA allstar game with his father.

White, Black, Hispanic and Democrat. Need I say more?

I had hope for Zimmerman. I sill believe that the prosecution is over reaching with second degree murder, witnesses have all changed their stories, not even the prosecution knows for sure what happened that night, etc...

but why... why does he have to make it worse for himself? ugh.

Honey, they're on to us!

Dash dash dash, dot dot dot, dash dash dash!

Dash dash dash, dot dot dot, dash dash dash!

Dash dash dash, dot dot dot, dash dash dash!

Shuklack,

Have you seen the map showing Trayvon's path through the community? It shows where Zimmerman parked, where the fight took place, and where they were during the 911 calls.

Why didnt Trayvon keep heading towards his house? Why make the turn?

Justina,

Comments like yours severely diminish any relevance they may carry. If you really want to support the "hang Zimmerman" crowd, you should turn your computer off, and cut your lawn or something.

Chris82mil,

I cant believe you are on this vine trying to discuss what may or may not happen, right before you go unconscious, from having your head bashed into the pavement.

_______________

Moral of this story. When your kid gets busted for drugs and gets kicked out of school, and you send your kid to live with his dad's girlfriend, dont let the kid go to the convenience store at 10:30 at night. Anyone and I mean ANYONE on this vine that has kids that may of had some problems with drugs knows why their kid wants to go to the store at night. Of course he came back with Skittles and Tea, they were his excuse for being out...

At the end of the day make sure your kids know to knock on a neighbors door when being approached by a stranger. Make sure they know not to run behind houses because that is where the perp is going to drag you anyway. No point in being that idiotic girl in the horror movie running into the woods when being chased by Michael Myers.

Innocent or guilty this will go down as the largest miscarriage of justice in U.S. history. To bad Zimmerman's dad wasnt John Edwards. John just got off from charges alleging he misused and diverted contributions!!!

ViVa America!~

Amy,

Its because Zimmerman isnt the criminal mastermind stalker that the prosecution and DOJ have alleged.

He is a MORON.

Why didnt Trayvon keep heading towards his house? Why make the turn?

He did not turn.

I feel Zimmerman's vehicle stayed parked in the location where Zimmerman said, "Now he is checking me out." That is when Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman and his vehicle.

When Trayvon thought he had lost Zimmerman because the vehicle had not followed him, Trayvon slowed down and felt safe. He then continued talking to his girlfriend, taking his time. When Zimmerman approached on foot to where Trayvon was, that is when Trayvon asked, "Why are you following me?"

Just for the record -
I'm a Democrat.
I don't watch Fox News
I'm not a racist.

I don't believe that the facts support GZ being guilty of 2nd degree Murder.
I do believe that he is probably guilty of Manslaughter. - But that's not how they charged him.

you all have thoughtful comments,

are you aware the point of time he was on the phone with his girlfriend and said, "Now he is checking me out", and when Zimmerman was on the phone with 911, running after Trayvon, and the dispatcher tells him to return to his car?

Why did Trayvon start running away from Zimmerman during the 911 call? You can hear Zimmerman stopping when the dispatcher told him to stop, he says "ok" and a minute 20 seconds later Trayvon is dead. Now we know from the map that Trayvon was generally traveling in the direction of his dad's gf's house.

How did Zimmerman hang up the phone, became Carl Lewis for 45 seconds and catch Trayvon, drag him back to the site of the altercation, get in a fist fight, appear to be losing the battle badly, pull the gun out and make sure Trayvon gets his hands on it, and then create sound effects that could be heard by people in the community, before he pulls the trigger?

When you consider he also called 911 before all of this just to create a credible alibi, this Zimmerman must be the criminal of the century!

Oh and he made sure the gun was at a proper distance and angle to Trayvon so when it went off the forensics would show that they two were struggling for the gun.

Amazing! Zimmerman will get his own episode of Law and Order after this one. He is more cunning than Manson and the Zodiac Killer combined!

I think David's right. It does happen in real life, I still remember the haunting article I read about a man who's ex-wife accused him of raping and beating her; he was in jail for years and his name was finally cleared because of a coffee shop receipt. She inflicted the wounds on herself. Also, hiding and lying about money certainly doesn't show that he has good character.

This code story is a joke.

Zimmerman is a murderer and a liar. Those that support him and send him money are fools.

Isn't it strange how all those witnesses changed their stories?
Makes you think doesn't it?

America Today-Anthony,

You are "assuming" you "know" where GZ was parked, and where he was, when he called police...please link me these "facts". I've only seen conjecture, NO facts.

and y'all was just thinkin he's just a po misunderstood white trash racist.... he wuz talking in tongues to his ole lady. Right, when he said to take "tens" and transfer to her accounts, he didnt rally mean $10,000. and when he pathetically asked "how much we gut, hun?" and she repliied "uh, 155", she meant $155 DOLLARS not the hundred fity fi thousand you pathetic losers sent him in "donations" to help bail him out. so he figgered he'd jess lie to the judge and get free defense and low bail, and the judge, bein a son o' the south, would buy the story. The zimmies, they figgered they had hit the LOTTO with no paper trail, and him with an "extra" passport (aka "get out of jail free card"). so the ole lady wuz in on it, and, truth be told his parents or at least his ole man were probably in on it too, since his ole man is a former participant in the southern "justice" system, he probably figured he knew the way to cover things. so, at least three of them are most likely involved in perjury, lying to government officials, obstruction of justice..... wonder if the prosecutors will put as much time and energy into prosecuting THOSE crimes as they put in to the roger clemens clusterf**k. my guess is, no, since we're talking florida and the south.

If people sent me money to pay for his defense, that should be between his lawyer and him. How much defense he gets is directly related to how much defense he can pay for. That's the American way. Obviously the other side should not be told how much defense he can afford. I'm sure in trying to convict him the government is spendiung many times that $135,000.

Jo An,

The link below contains maps, cell phone records, a copy of the 911 phone calls, and everything else you need to make an educated opinion about this case. I personally like how the author has all the info. in one place.

http://www.wagist.com/2012/dan-linehan/the-missing-230-and-deedees-testimony

As I said from day one, the only logical reason why Trayvon doubled back was because his girlfriend told him to.

It is why Dee Dee's testimony is very thin. She probably spent all night making her story up when she realized that she caused Trayvon's death.

Make that girl take a lie detector test!

Make that girl take a lie detector test!

Oh, so now she's a perp too huh. Guilty of what? Being black in America?

America Today Anthony said:

Moral of this story. When your kid gets busted for drugs and gets kicked out of school,

He was suspended for having an empty baggie that the school THOUGHT might have had marijuana in it, but it was not proven. Martin was therefore suspended, not expelled.

and you send your kid to live with his dad's girlfriend,

They were visiting Dad's girlfriend.

don't let the kid go to the convenience store at 10:30 at night.

Police report says the Zimmerman phone call was received at 19:17 that evening. That would have been 7:17 pm, civilian time. Paramedic Brady declared Martin deceased at 1930 hours that night. That's 7:30. Not 10:30.

Anyone and I mean ANYONE on this vine that has kids that may of had some problems with drugs knows why their kid wants to go to the store at night. Of course he came back with Skittles and Tea, they were his excuse for being out...

The girlfriend had a young son named Chad. Chad apparently looked up to Martin as a surrogate older brother. Martin's father's purpose in taking his son with him to visit his girlfriend was likely to 1) get him out of the neighborhood he lived in to remove him from bad influences--he was an A student till then, his grades had reportedly just started slipping to a B+;2) impress on him that he has a responsibility to his little brother to be the mature, responsible one, to be a role model for this younger child and not get sucked into drugs and crime like so many teens today are. And to reinforce that sense of responsibility, let him babysit his little brother that evening. The two boys settled in to watch the NBA game, at halftime Chad says he wants candy, Martin goes to the corner store to buy and never comes back.

Chad probably feels guilty at the moment--survivor's guilt. He probably thinks if he didn't ask for candy, his big brother would have stayed home that evening and would still be alive. Chad, if you're reading this..please remember, none of this was your fault. A lot of different people made some decisions that night that didn't end well for your brother, but it was in no way your fault.

At the end of the day make sure your kids know to knock on a neighbors door when being approached by a stranger.

Kids are not the best decision makers. That's why they are kids and its why adults have the greater responsibility to govern themselves. And the neighbors may not have been familiar with Martin, as he didn't live there, only visited occasionally over the last couple of years. If he came running onto someone's front porch they could have shot him thinking he was there to burglarize them!

Make sure they know not to run behind houses because that is where the perp is going to drag you anyway.

The long concrete sidewalk running parallell to Twin Trees Lane and Retreat View Circle looks to be a well-frequented walkway between the two rows of condo blocks/rowhouses. Looking at the Aerial view on Google Maps, it would have been a fairly direct line from the gated entrance to the end where the father's girlfriend lived.

America Today-Anthony,

Wagist is a far right rag, I wouldn't believe anything they wrote, and the map only shows a tiny portion of the overall area. I don't believe Trayvon "doubled back" at all. Why would he? He was being pursued, and followed, why would he suddenly become the aggressor? It makes no sense.

This map shows the entire area, including 7/11, the likely spot Trayvon re entered the complex, etc. Click on the blue arrows and follow along.

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/04/02/us/the-events-leading-to-the-shooting-of-trayvon-martin.html

If GZ was really heading out of complex to run an errand, he likely encountered Trayvon in the NW corner of complex, and watched him for a while before calling police. If he was near clubhouse and mailboxes when he called police, I think he was nearer to the front entrance when he called them. Trayvons friend said he went under an overhang to get out of the rain, and she said Trayvon said he was going to go confront GZ to see why he was following him, she said "no, run". I think that all happened near front entrance, near mailboxes. When GZ told police "he's checking me out", that is likely when Trayvon told his girlfriend he was going up to him, then he ran...GZ followed until told not to, approx 20 seconds, then went back to his car. Trayvon ran towards the back entrance, because that is where he was going, once he got behind the houses, he stopped running and either hid, or just stopped to continue his phone call. Trayvon was walking slowly before he encountered GZ, so why wouldn't he still be taking his time. He was a teenage boy on phone with girl, they like privacy, and he was in no rush to hang up with her. As evidenced by length of their call.

GZ told the police to meet him by the mailboxes, and then said no, just have them call....because he planned to continue following Trayvon. GZ likely walked behind those houses, saw Trayvon, and tried to reach out to "detain" Trayvon, until police arrived. After all GZ was tired of them "always getting away", so he wasn't letting this one go.

Problem was Trayvon was actually scared too...for all his bravado to his girlfriend on phone, he was likely taken by surprise when GZ showed up behind those houses...Trayvon was fighting for his life, trying to get away from some crazy white dude that was following him, of course he punched GZ in the nose...knocked him on his arse too! GZ pulled a gun...

America Today Anthony:

You posted a link in your last post. I clicked it. I took a look at the page--it's from an editorial. And editorial is not unbiased journalism, an editorial is a space where a reporter can air personal opinions on an item of news. Therefore, you cannot use this link as unbiased fact.

Multi,

No, not because she is black, because she is the only one that knows what Trayvon was thinking before he got shot. Her story must be substantiated.

Please refrain from bringing the typical racism into this discussion.

Amanda,

Beyond my typo about the time of night Trayvon was walking to the store I am surprised at the naivety you put forth in your post.

There is no proof the baggy Trayvon got busted with really had weed in it? He wasnt sent to his dad's gf's house he was only visiting?

And I so much love your little drama about Chad wanting candy at halftime.

I am very surprised at all of the apologists out there. Every time something circumstantial comes up about Zimmerman you lot scream louder for his head, when something comes up about Trayvon its all natural and kids and candy for little surrogate brother.

How any intelligent person can look at all the facts and still support Trayvon is beyond me.

The 17 year old was close enough to his dad's gf's house that he could of hit it with a thrown rock.

And in closing that is the saddest most pathetic part of this whole ordeal. Once one of you are finally, painfully convinced that Trayvon came back to get Zimmerman what do you lot come back with?

Why cant Trayvon kick the crud out of some guy following him, or Zimmerman was getting his tail kicked by a "kid" and did the only thing he could.

I sincerely pity you people.

Amanda,

What part of the author has all of the information in one place cant you understand?

Again this is what I am talking about.

Please refrain from bringing the typical racism into this discussion

You're kidding, right? What's going on here is all about racism.

Jo-An

I strongly agree with you.

WTF! It was allover the news and the papers that Zimmerman had a website to raise a defense fund before they even decided to arrest Zimmerman.

Maybe the judge should take his head out of his azz and learn about reading the papers and using the internet.

This is not news. All it proves is how dumb and outdated this judge is when it comes to technology.

Shyt, you can find out more about a criminal on the net than you can in the courts. Maybe it's time that this judge goes back to school and learn about the internet, computers, and modern technology.

Multi,

#1 Dont vote for yourself. It makes you look like a narcissist.

#2 This whole thing started when the black community thought a white adult killed a black kid. Sensationalism in its most grotesque form. A CLEAR indictment of the machinations of our media. Once the truth came out all I hear is whining, back pedaling, and the general dumbing down of a segment of our population.

#3 The real loser in all of this is our justice system. Our system bowed to outside pressures for a group of people. Once it was thought that our system was only skewed by extremely wealthy people, or always against a certain minority(depending on the minority). Now we all know that our media, special interest groups, and lobbies can and do abuse our system.

Multi please remember this, you can cheer with the rest of the lemmings because the system is being bent in your favor, but that same system can be used against you.

Jo An said:

If GZ was really heading out of complex to run an errand, he likely encountered Trayvon in the NW corner of complex, and watched him for a while before calling police.

We only have Zimmerman's word for it, therefore, what he was actually doing that night is in question. When the police asked him to identify himself, he did not produce a drivers' license.

Trayvons friend said he went under an overhang to get out of the rain, and she said Trayvon said he was going to go confront GZ to see why he was following him, she said "no, run". I think that all happened near front entrance, near mailboxes. When GZ told police "he's checking me out", that is likely when Trayvon told his girlfriend he was going up to him, then he ran...GZ followed until told not to, approx 20 seconds, then went back to his car. Trayvon ran towards the back entrance, because that is where he was going, once he got behind the houses, he stopped running and either hid, or just stopped to continue his phone call. Trayvon was walking slowly before he encountered GZ, so why wouldn't he still be taking his time. He was a teenage boy on phone with girl, they like privacy, and he was in no rush to hang up with her. As evidenced by length of their call.

The length of the call is the only outwardly verifiable fact. We only have Martin's girlfriend's testimony can e taken into account, but I would not put too much stock in it because she is not unbiased--this is her boyfriend. She cannot have an unbiased opinion so nothing she says can be taken as written-in-stone truth.

GZ told the police to meet him by the mailboxes, and then said no, just have them call....because he planned to continue following Trayvon. GZ likely walked behind those houses, saw Trayvon, and tried to reach out to "detain" Trayvon, until police arrived. After all GZ was tired of them "always getting away", so he wasn't letting this one go.

Problem was Trayvon was actually scared too...for all his bravado to his girlfriend on phone, he was likely taken by surprise when GZ showed up behind those houses...

We know there was an altercation but we do not know that Martin was 'fighting for his life'. There was no one who witnessed the beginning of the altercation.

trying to get away from some crazy white dude that was following him,

We know that at some point Zimmerman started to follow him. We don't know for certain if he ever stopped following--we hear on his 911 all that he lost sight of Martin and told the dispatcher to have the police call him when they got there so he could direct them to his location.

of course he punched GZ in the nose...knocked him on his arse too! GZ pulled a gun...

We do not know this for certain. No one witnessed the beginning of the altercation, only the rend, when a 911 caller says she sees two men fighting, someone screams, and then a gunshot is heard. The 911 caller wonders to the dispatcher, 'why would he shoot that man?' but there is no evidence which person she was talking about.

Problem was Trayvon was actually scared too...for all his bravado to his girlfriend on phone, he was likely taken by surprise when GZ showed up behind those houses...Trayvon was fighting for his life, trying to get away from some crazy white dude that was following him, of course he punched GZ in the nose...knocked him on his arse too! GZ pulled a gun...

Wow it sure is sweet when one of you make my point in such proximity to my post saying you were going to post this.

I dont care if the Wagist was a North Korean propaganda rag. It has all of the maps, phone calls, witness reports, and the rest all in one place. It doesnt matter if I agree with the author that Dee Dee knows more than she is saying, that is the opinion. The facts are still facts even if they are put on FOX or the Wagist.

As you can clearly see from the evidence, Trayvon could of easily made it home. He was looking at it.

Take all the facts and write them down. Look at the time stamps on the phone calls. Use your brain.

We dont know why Trayvon didnt go home and chose to get into an altercation with Zimmerman. The fact is that he did. The other fact is the only person that knows what really happened is Dee Dee and she is only parroting what she was told to say.

Zimmerman said he was not on patrol that night. When starting to watch Trayvon and call the police dispatcher, I feel Zimmerman was putting himself on watch patrol. Taaffe told The Grio that Zimmerman had volunteered to do watch patrols in their casual watch organization (not connected with the national program.)

“He stepped up and said, ‘I’ve got this guys. I’ll take care of the community,’” Taaffe said of Zimmerman choosing to oversee security at the complex. “At that point, nobody gave him any argument, because it required daily patrols at night, on your own volition, taken out of your time. Heat, cold, rain, whatever the case is. George stepped up to the plate. And we as residents found that to be very admirable.”

Taaffe by the way was a watcher for his block at one time and NEVER carried a gun on watch.

America Today Anthony said:

Amanda,

Beyond my typo about the time of night Trayvon was walking to the store I am surprised at the naivety you put forth in your post.

There is no proof the baggy Trayvon got busted with really had weed in it?

If it had marijuana, the school would have called police. The FL police unequivocally state that he has NO juvenile record. Therefore, it was never proven in a court of law with police reports and sample testing.

He wasnt sent to his dad's gf's house he was only visiting?

According to reports, yes, Martin and his father were occasional visitors to the community over the prior two years.

And I so much love your little drama about Chad wanting candy at halftime.

The girlfriend does have a younger son. I read a news report that says he was the one who wanted the candy, the tea was for Martin, but the mentions of Chad have been very quickly buried to protect the one innocent in this whole mess.

I am very surprised at all of the apologists out there. Every time something circumstantial comes up about Zimmerman you lot scream louder for his head, when something comes up about Trayvon its all natural and kids and candy for little surrogate brother.

I have never once 'screamed' for his head. I'm of the opinion that the original police findings of negligent manslaughter were correct, that irregardless of who started the fight, a child is dead and a man's life is ruined forever. I have been of the opinion that we are most likely never going to know exactly what happened that night, and that it is not up to us to judge, that Zimmerman's guilt is, in the end, going to be decided by the Great Equalizer and all parties will then get exactly what they deserve when that happens.

How any intelligent person can look at all the facts and still support Trayvon is beyond me.

I'm supporting no one. I'm on the side of Justice. I think both Zimmerman and Martin made poor decisions that night that ended with one dead and the other's life ruined, but the fact remains that Zimmerman was the adult, he had the gun, and with him lay the greater responsibility for better judgment and good decision-making and he did not exercise that.

The 17 year old was close enough to his dad's gf's house that he could of hit it with a thrown rock.

And in closing that is the saddest most pathetic part of this whole ordeal. Once one of you are finally, painfully convinced that Trayvon came back to get Zimmerman what do you lot come back with?

Why cant Trayvon kick the crud out of some guy following him, or Zimmerman was getting his tail kicked by a "kid" and did the only thing he could.

I sincerely pity you people.

What I find the saddest part of this whole ordeal is that a child is dead and another person's life is ruined forever by poor judgement on both sides. Tragic. And it is both families, Zimmerman's and Martin's, who have lost their peace, sense of security, personal happiness, and anonymity.

Amanda,

What part of the author has all of the information in one place cant you understand?

Again this is what I am talking about.

The author, Mr. Dan Linehan, does NOT have 'all the information in one place'. I see no links to the partial police reports. I see no links to full police reports, autopsy reports, coroner's reports, crime scene photos, toxicology reports, evidence lists, court orders, legal forms. The author has linked only to those facts which support his theory of the crime. Also note this article was published April 4, and it is now June 18, and there have been many twists and turns and developments in the case since April 4, so the information Mr Linehan has is not 'all the information'.

Can we at least all agree that Trayvon did in fact come back around the side of the second large group of town homes to confront Zimmerman?

Zimmerman parked at the north end of Twin Trees street. He got out and followed Trayvon to the north end of Retreat View circle. That is the point at which Zimmerman got off the phone with 911. At this point Trayvon is most likely at the north end of the second group of town homes. The only way for Trayvon to arrive at the shooting scene was for him to go between the first and second group of town homes on Retreat View circle and intercepting Zimmerman as he was walking back towards his truck.

Trayvon's dad's gf's house was south and the truck was north and west.

Trayvon is dead because he made a stupid decision probably spurred on by Dee Dee, and only Dee Dee knows why Trayvon didnt "run away".

Amanda,

Trayvon's family doesnt need you to give excuse after excuse to defend his actions. They have well paid lawyers that are doing it for them.

Other then that I agree that both families have suffered plenty. Maybe, since everyone is so concerned about motivations, Zimmerman's wife can trade mark his name like Trayvon's family did for their son. I am certain we will see plenty of made for TV movies, books, and other self serving greed once the trial is over.

Taaffe by the way was a watcher for his block at one time and NEVER carried a gun on watch.

I should probably point out this may not be a strong argument on my part because, maybe, Taaffe was not allowed to own a gun:

http://www.seminolemugshots.com/arrest_card_inquiry.php?n=89224_Frank-Taaffe_Seminole_Mugshot_5c9d

I mean clearly if Zimmerman's motivation, as told to us by the prosecutor and our beloved leaders DOJ, was to profile, stalk, and then kill a black youth, why didnt he shoot Trayvon when he approached Zimmerman's car and knocked on the window? He was right there and in perfect position for Zimmerman to claim car jacking or some such thing.

Zimmerman is certainly guilty of involuntary manslaughter, but not murder two. For that prosecutor to say Zimmerman was personally motivated by hatred of black people obviously didnt do any research before she filed the charges. We now know, among a warehouse full of other information, that Zimmerman in fact had championed the support for a local black person that was discriminated against.

Certainly the deeds of a hardened racist.

Main Fact Anthony is this.

It was totally avoidable (the killing of Trayvon) had GZ listened to the police dispatcher in the first place or in the second place had he never left his car.

Amanda2017567 and J0-An4354969 I agree with you both.

America Today Anthony said:

Can we at least all agree that Trayvon did in fact come back around the side of the second large group of town homes to confront Zimmerman?

We don not have to agree because we are not the jury. And I know I will never be on that jury so in the end, what I believe is absolutely irrelevant.

Zimmerman parked at the north end of Twin Trees street. He got out and followed Trayvon to the north end of Retreat View circle. That is the point at which Zimmerman got off the phone with 911. At this point Trayvon is most likely at the north end of the second group of town homes. The only way for Trayvon to arrive at the shooting scene was for him to go between the first and second group of town homes on Retreat View circle and intercepting Zimmerman as he was walking back towards his truck.

Trayvon's dad's gf's house was south and the truck was north and west.

Trayvon is dead because he made a stupid decision probably spurred on by Dee Dee, and only Dee Dee knows why Trayvon didnt "run away".

I thought that was the whole point of 'Stand Your Ground', that you didn't hve to 'run away'. All of this is speculation and has not been proven in a court of law. And most likely will never be proven in a court of law. There's been too much fuss already. The Great Equalizer will sort it out after were all dead and it's not up to us to judge.

Amanda,

Trayvon's family doesnt need you to give excuse after excuse to defend his actions. They have well paid lawyers that are doing it for them.

Other then that I agree that both families have suffered plenty. Maybe, since everyone is so concerned about motivations, Zimmerman's wife can trade mark his name like Trayvon's family did for their son. I am certain we will see plenty of made for TV movies, books, and other self serving greed once the trial is over.

Whose actions have I been defending? I'm trying to present facts about the case, correct misconceptions because the media have all been doing a great job at providing biased opinions but I have not yet seen a media organization presenting all the facts in a clear, unbiased manner. My high school journalism teacher would be spinning in his grave at the mangling the media have done to this case.

Can we at least all agree that Trayvon did in fact come back around the side of the second large group of town homes to confront Zimmerman?

No...I've seen nothing to "prove" that to me.

Zimmerman parked at the north end of Twin Trees street.

Where is the proof of this? I heard the police say they didn't even know GZ was driving that night until AFTER his wife had taken car home...please link me with some proof....my ears, and mind, conclude GZ was parked near clubhouse and mailboxes when he called police...

Dee Dee said Trayvon stood under some overhang, probably the clubhouse or mailboxes, I believe that is where he was when GZ made the phone call to police, after watching him walk slowly, acting strange (because he was talking on headset), and that is where Trayvon walked up to GZ's vehicle, and then turned and ran....if you have "proof" of where GZ was while on phone, I'd like to see it.

Thanks Killroy!

Amanda,

By, in a psuedo middle of the road way, discounting anything said that supports Zimmerman.

You dont have to be "on the jury" to form an opinion. That is why that judge in Florida ruled to allow the release of information. So this trial can be judged by the court of opinion.

I thought that was the whole point of 'Stand Your Ground', that you didn't hve to 'run away'. All of this is speculation and has not been proven in a court of law. And most likely will never be proven in a court of law. There's been too much fuss already. The Great Equalizer will sort it out after were all dead and it's not up to us to judge.

No it is not speculation. Evidence shows how it all played out. The only thing we do not know is the exchange of words between Trayvon and Zimmerman leading up to the fight and the subsequent shooting. Dee Dee knows because she was on the phone with Trayvon up to the point of the fight. She wont take a lie detector test because the lawyers dont want to incriminate Trayvon or Dee Dee, and certainly dont want to help Zimmerman's case.

Granted you gave me a different line then most. I love the invocation of God as the one that will sort all of this mess out. Much better.

Jo An,

Of course the police knew where Zimmerman's vehicle was at. It is right where it was when he parked it and went after Trayvon.

Look at the map Jo An. The GF's house is at the south end of Retreat View circle. Zimmerman's truck was at the North End of Twin Trees street, near the entrance of the complex and the convenience store. From Dee Dee's testimony, and Zimmerman's, the police were able to create the path that Trayvon traveled, towards the house he was staying at.

Now if Trayvon was shot in between the first two groups of town homes between those two streets, then Trayvon didnt turn north on Retreat View Circle, he went south towards the house he was staying at. The only way for Trayvon and Zimmerman to meet at the site of the shooting would be for Trayvon to go between the first and second townhomes on Retreat View Circle and head north through the back yards of the town homes on Twin Trees St., towards the shooting scene.

It is the only way it is possible in the time allowed.

Why is it so hard to accept?

Oh and the overhang was obviously the ones on the town homes. You can see them in all of the pictures they have taken of the homes. They are kind of scrunched together 6 town homes to each building.

Killroy,

If Zimmerman didnt have a gun would the police of arrived to a scene of a 17 year old killing a Hispanic guy. How would the media spin that one?

AmericaToday anthony said:

By, in a psuedo middle of the road way, discounting anything said that supports Zimmerman.

And when Jo-An said that Martin was fighting for his life, well, we don't know that either. We have only the girlfriend's word that Martin didn't start it and she isn't reliable because she can't provide unbiased testimony.

Look, we don't know that Martin did indeed double back. We don't know that he didn't. We don't know that he didn't smoke pot. We don't know that he did. Yes, Martin had traces of THC in his system, but Zimmerman had amphetamines under prescription from a doctor. And THC, in pill form, is an FDA-approved, legal-in-all-50-states ingredient in a prescription mediation called Marinol. Do we know he got hold of a pill instead of a joint? No, but neither do we know for certain the he DID smoke a joint. How do we know a friend didn't bake some in a brownie as a joke?

You dont have to be "on the jury" to form an opinion. That is why that judge in Florida ruled to allow the release of information. So this trial can be judged by the court of opinion.

Honestly, I don't believe that the judge released the information so the public could judge. I think they released information so that all traces of LEO misconduct could be cleared from the public record and return attention to the actual case. After the allegations of law enforcement misconduct that plagued the case when the story first broke, the FL justice system has to have some public faith in their integrity restored so that when the trial DOES eventually happen the judgement will be seen as fair and untainted by apparent FL authorities' corruption. And I have not seen any evidence of police misconduct.

No it is not speculation. Evidence shows how it all played out. The only thing we do not know is the exchange of words between Trayvon and Zimmerman leading up to the fight and the subsequent shooting. Dee Dee knows because she was on the phone with Trayvon up to the point of the fight. She wont take a lie detector test because the lawyers dont want to incriminate Trayvon or Dee Dee, and certainly dont want to help Zimmerman's case.

I'm not getting back into this argument with you. ALL the evidence will be presented to the jury and they will make the determination. What you or I know or don't know or think we know, is irrelevant.

Granted you gave me a different line then most. I love the invocation of God as the one that will sort all of this mess out. Much better.

Er...excuse me. Where did I say God? 'Great Equalizer.' As in 'Death, the Great Equalizer.' No gender.

If you choose to think its God, that's up to you. She's 'Goddess' to me.

I wonder what Zimmerman would do if he saw a sign that said, "Do not touch-WET PAINT"? ( I know, many of you are going to say, "But, it is not illegal to touch wet paint!")

We don't know that he didn't smoke pot. We don't know that he did. Yes, Martin had traces of THC in his system, but Zimmerman had amphetamines under prescription from a doctor.

Yes we do know that he smoked pot. Because it is in his system as you just stated from the facts of the case. And Zimmerman's use of Amphetamines has nothing to do with Trayvon's smoking of weed.

You just gave another example of middle of the road passive aggressive bs.

Look, we don't know that Martin did indeed double back. We don't know that he didn't.

Again, yes we do,. The facts state that Zimmerman followed Trayvon towards Retreat View Circle from where he parked his truck. The facts state that Trayvon was traveling towards Brandy Green's house at the south part of Retreat View Circle. The facts state that Trayvon was shot in the back yard of the northern town house group on Twin Trees St. in the direction of Zimmerman's truck.

If Trayvon didnt come back to confront Zimmerman then the ONLY possible was for Trayvon to be shot where he was shot would be for Zimmerman to run down Retreat View Circle, grab Trayvon, and drag him back towards his truck, which was parked at the north end of Twin Trees St.

This is also why the police have stated they know that Trayvon came back to confront Zimmerman and they dont know why.

Its also why Dee Dee is the unreliable witness you constantly describe.

Dee Dee's story is laughable.

If you were on the phone with a friend who was being chased by someone and the line suddenly went dead and your calls back weren't returned, you'd be alarmed and probably call 911. Did she try to find out where Martin was from friends of his? In any event, she never wound up calling the Sanford police that night.

Tracy Martin identified his son's body the next morning, and probably by that afternoon rumors of Trayvon's death were circulating at Dr. Michael Krop High School. Dee-Dee would naturally have been distraught. The day after his wake, she was so upset, according to Crump, that her mother brought her to an ER. She received "a battery of tests," including an EKG, and stayed there 12 hours. If she had not mentioned it earlier, Dee-Dee must have told her mother after the wake that she had been speaking with Martin moments before he was killed.

The mother chose not to pass this news along to the Sanford police. The obligations of good citizenship might not have counted for much with Dee-Dee's mom, but if she had information that would indicate that her daughter's friend had been pursued and killed, you'd think that she would have come forward with the details for Trayvon's sake and for the sake of his parents. The killer of her daughter's boyfriend, after all, was not sitting in jail, where he belonged.

But what if Dee-Dee's account of the phone call differed from what she subsequently reported? What if she told her mom that Trayvon had said something like, "I'm gonna check out this dude" and later "This m***** f***** is gonna be sorry he messed with me"? There would be less incentive to call the police or Martin's family. Such a response would not have been out of character for the Trayvon Martin who emerges from his Twitter, My Space, and Facebook accounts.

The Crump team places the onus of responsibility on the police for failing to contact the girl. It's true they had Martin's cell. Incoming calls are stored on most phones, but not always. On February 27 it would not have mattered much to the police who Martin was talking to before he took a swing at Zimmerman. If they could do it again, no doubt they would call the number. By March 2, they had returned the phone to Tracy Martin; a mysterious call to 911 was made on that date.

So it was only when Tracy Martin was looking over his son's phone bill about three weeks after Trayvon's death that he noticed the call. He didn't dial the number, according to Julison, the Crump spokesman, but turned the phone over to the lawyer, who contacted the girl. Crump, needless to say, did not inform the police. Instead he went to Matt Gutman of ABC. According to Julison, Gutman was chosen because he'd done some good -- i.e., sympathetic -- reporting, but the spokesman insisted there was no special reason to select him.

After giving her brief phone interview, Dee-Dee refused to speak with reporters or with the Sanford police. The concern about the girl's safety -- repeated by Julison -- is implausible. No "white supremacist" has threatened a member of Team Trayvon. If Dee-Dee had come forward, any of the "Justice for Trayvon" rallies across the country would have been delighted to feature her. However, fifteen minutes of fame does not appeal to everyone, and it's understandable that she might not wish to sign on, or to be interviewed on camera. But why not talk to the police or FBI? If what you're telling investigators is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you should have no worries. If you're concealing something, talking to authorities is a more dicey proposition. In any event, 35 days after the shooting and 12 days after the ABC interview, the girl complied with a subpoena and spoke with two district attorneys working for the Special Prosecutor.

Amanda

We have only the girlfriend's word that Martin didn't start it and she isn't reliable because she can't provide unbiased testimony.

and

We only have Zimmerman's word for it, therefore, what he was actually doing that night is in question.

My conclusion, therefore, is that these two testimonies (or statements) should be weighed equally. If Zimmerman's statements are found to have inconsistencies, then there will be a problem for Zimmerman.

Look at the map Jo An. The GF's house is at the south end of Retreat View circle. Zimmerman's truck was at the North End of Twin Trees street, near the entrance of the complex and the convenience store. From Dee Dee's testimony, and Zimmerman's, the police were able to create the path that Trayvon traveled, towards the house he was staying at.

I have looked at the map, read the police reports and listened to the police recording....Trayvon started on the NW end of complex, and was heading to the SE end of complex, he NEVER made it! If GZ called police near club house and mail boxes, he likely got out of his car there, and followed Trayvon on Twin Trees heading east. Once Trayvon got behind the first set of houses, how do you know he went any further? He could have stopped to hide from the mad murderer that was following him.

Of course the police knew where Zimmerman's vehicle was at. It is right where it was when he parked it and went after Trayvon.

The police have said they did NOT know he was even driving that night! They thought he was on "patrol". The vehicle circled in the maps, just happened to be there when Google Earth took the photo...convenient though...let's circle it, and call it a "fact".

if Trayvon was shot in between the first two groups of town homes between those two streets, then Trayvon didnt turn north on Retreat View Circle, he went south towards the house he was staying at.

If Trayvon ran to the east towards the home he was staying at, he then needed to turn south, which he did, and then he stopped and continued talking to Dee Dee. That is where he is found murdered.

I don't buy the wagist map and theory at all, so no use debating it. It's self serving for the RWNJ's to prove Trayvon was a "thug"...

Jo An,

I find it revolting that someone could have such a furious opinion and state that they dont know any of the facts.

People like you scare me. You are the mob. You are the masses that Socialism requires to overthrow the free market system. You dont know anything about anything, as you stated, and yet you call Zimmerman a mad murderer.

You are a product of the system. The TV told you what to think and you not only believe it, but I imagine you would take a swing at someone with a different opinion.

When Dee Dee breaks on the stand I really hope you realize that if this was the ole' west, you wouldve been at the front of the mob hanging someone.

Mob justice = village stupidity.

As stated before, I feel Zimmerman should be guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

The second degree murder charge was only made to appease a mob.

why didnt he shoot Trayvon when he approached Zimmerman's car and knocked on the window?

Oh, I dunno, because.... errr... THAT DIDN'T HAPPEN.

America Today-Anthony

I find it revolting that someone could have such a furious opinion and state that they dont know any of the facts.

People like you scare me. You are the mob. You are the masses that Socialism requires to overthrow the free market system. You dont know anything about anything, as you stated, and yet you call Zimmerman a mad murderer.

Yes, meanwhile you've been blatantly making stuff up and presenting it as fact.

People like YOU scare ME.

You talk about other people being the "mob" and "masses" as if you've not been duped into believing things that are not true from other (biased) sources. The worst thing is that in making stuff up you are actually partaking in misleading people, which makes you the leader (attempted) of a "mob" or "masses" that you are trying to bend to your will by doing that misleading.

America Today-Anthony,

Oh, wow...

Like Rob80 says...you scare me TOO!

When Dee Dee breaks on the stand

She will not break. People who tell the truth do not break. I heard her testimony, and for a sixteen year old, she has a lot of poise and maturity. I respect her and her courage. I totally believe she is telling the truth (even though Amanda doesn't think she is credible because she is a friend of Trayvon.)

@ Anthony

Killroy,

If Zimmerman didnt have a gun would the police of arrived to a scene of a 17 year old killing a Hispanic guy. How would the media spin that one?

IF! Sure if GZ did not have a gun. He would never have left his car at all because he would not have felt like he had the power to make sure that they do not always get away. But he did have his good ol backup there to get his butt out of a jam he got himself into, and that was not his business. By the way how much did you (money) send to him?

Fox News....the most watched news network on television

Where have you been living? Fox isn't the most watched news network.

Sure if GZ did not have a gun. He would never have left his car at all because he would not have felt like he had the power to make sure that they do not always get away

How many dumb@!$%#s are there believing that he seriously did this. Let's see. Fact A) If Zimmerman was just planning to kill the kid. Why the hell call the cops and wait? Fact B){Which I'm sure by now people realized their stupidity and figured this out} How the hell do you self inflict wounds to the back of your head. It's literally imposable to do without laughing at yourself because of the idea. Oh and the fact being that the doctors WHO ARE PROFESSIONALS even stated that the injuries he sustained were from a second party. Fact C) We will never know the truth behind this case so the only evidence to go on was the phone call the gunshot the wounds and (somehow this finally came to be evidence) Speculation from idiots.

What I like best about this money people donated for his defense fund is him moving around the money to his wife's and sister's bank accounts... and oh, while you're at it, pay off our American Express, Sam's Club and Walmart bills!

George Z's wife looks like Bristol Palin

Not really, the money was intended not just for lawyers, but to cover regular expenses while Zimmerman does his time as a political prisoner. Since he can't work until this silly case is over and he gets out of jail, of course some of the money will be used to support his family. Why would donors feel silly that the money is being used for its intended purpose?

The monetary support is a symbolic reply to the media and race-baiting celebrities like Sharpton and Jackson who managed to turn a simple case of self defense into some kind of racial thing. Good timing, too, Rodney King just died, lucky they got a replacement just in time. Riot for Trayvon this time, I guess. Random violence is usually a great way to solve problems, just keep sticking with it, I'm sure it will work sooner or later. White people have our crazies, too, like David Duke and the skinheads and all that, but at least we have the sense the be embarrassed by them, not call them "reverend" and treat them like they are some kind of legitimate leaders.

@sadly

Put yourself in Trayvon's family shoes for once and imagine that was your son. I highly doubt that you would call it a "simple case of self defense". If your son was followed by a grown man and they start fighting and your son happens to be getting the best of him. Do you feel it would be ok for that man two shoot him? ..i highly doubt it.. You would be demanding that man to be arrested

justina777

George Z's wife looks like Bristol Palin

And you look like Zimmerman's wife...how ironic.

Why feel the need to politicize this? Are you so incabable of thinking for yourself you have to blame a Political Theory on the facts as reported? No wonder our Country is suffering. Discussing purchasing Flack Vests for them? This should indicate their twisted view of the World. If the neighborhood was so full of violent crime why were the Law Enforcement Officers not doubling up on patrols? Wake up out of your self imposed stupidity. You are full of crap.

It is being politicized because Obama injected himself into it.

Money is fungible...he could pay for credit cards or lawyer fees...it's all the same. He may have paid upfront for some lawyer fees and was now using money he would have had otherwise to pay other bills. It's all fungible. Logic people, logic.

Fact....ZIMMERMAN is in JAIL>>>>>>He put himself there, no one else. Daddy influence got him out and he got special treatment. If his daddy was a janitor or a teacher, think he would be walking the streets asap after killing someone? Daddy influence removed....Now he is going to be treated like anyone else who put himself in that kind of situation. Justice is moving forward. Pro Zimm crowd hates blacks...quite clear with all the rants. Rants help nothing, just shows the minds of lttle people.

Funny a few years back at 911 site, in Iraq, anywhere our soldiers fight for our country, blood shed by our soldiers of Whites , Blacks, Asians, Mex, whatever,....the color of blood is the same...red. Yet some fools think their color of blood is gold and above the others....no...it is red.....no different......just a little mind to go with the twisted thought of supremacy.....

@starsailing,

Tell them brother because I really think that they didn't hear the truth as you so graciously put it. Thank you for those words of intellect. I agree!!!

It's scumbags that want to pre judge this case that made a lot of people decide to donate. He's been pre-judged, out side of a court of law. HE can't stay in his own home, can't go to work etc.. so those donating expected that he WOULD be using some of this money to SURVIVE as well as pay for his defense. Ever heard of something called "it's none of your business" when it comes to commenting on what other people do with their own money???

Skrew, why the emotion? Did you donate? ROFLMAO at you.

I am not in Florida and am reading and watching this with interest. Why Zimmerman wasn't arrested and held in the very begining is a good question. I feel that the police were very much aware of the racial aspects that could happen in this given area. Yes, Zimmermans' life is in peril if he's on the streets.

The public outrage got the ball rolling. Zimmerman, I guess had a right to ask for finacial assistance and set up a fund. Personnally I would never donate to such a situation. I don't feel that it is right for these people to put Zimmermans' wife in a life threatening or cause her to have to hide for her own safety. This crosses a line, she did not do anything to cause Trevons death.

AS for weather they were talking in code about the money, he may have been thinking about his wife if he wasn't around. I glad the judge did what he did about the situation.

IF Zimmerman walks his life won't be worth 2 cents. If he's found guilty he will get his just reward. As far as I'm concerned about his wife at that point in time, she is a hands off situation! The mentality of people these days won't let that happen. Will it?

skrewdworld

The monetary support is a symbolic reply to the media and race-baiting celebrities like Sharpton and Jackson who managed to turn a simple case of self defense into some kind of racial thing.

Exactly right, my friend....and it's more than just symbolic - people are putting their money where their mouth is to counter the public lynching of this man

Every time MSNBC posts another of these stupid articles makes me want to donate some more

So ,donate some more,SUCKER!!

I think I will....but this time I'll make a note that the donation is made on behalf of "model railroad man"

(do you wear a cute little hat when you watch those little trains run around in circles in your basement?...just curious)

If Zimmerman was arrested that night, no marches would have happened! Why can't people see that? You want to blame Al Sharpton, NAACP, Jesse Jackson, and the others who marched for action! Blame Florida and their perceived racial bias! Don't believe me. A Jacksonville woman was just sentenced to 20 years in prison for firing a warning shot (not striking) at her husband. The husband has a history of documented domestic violence. She claimed is was Florida's "Stand your ground" law since she was protecting herself and children! Florida didn't see it that way and charged her with "10-20-life". She was offered a plea of 3 years but refused because she was standing her ground. Google it! So why is it cool for one guy to fire his gun and kill someone, but it isn't ok to fire a warning shot? I don't agree with Jesse, Al, and the NAACP most of the time, but this time I believe it was warranted! If Florida arrests GZ that night, NO ONE but local FL residents would know about this case!

Still don't see enough evidence to convict.
Zimmerman walks free.

Still don't see enough evidence to convict.

You, nor any of us, have seen any of the evidence. It will be presented at his trial. Then the jury will decide. That's the way it works.

One thing has been proven though, Zimmerman is a conniving liar. There's no doubt about that.

There's some other salient facts: 1. A white man shot a black kid. 2. There was no arrest until there was a public outcry. 3. Zimmerman and his wife lied to the court.

Kim, how about the buying bullet-proof vests for everyone? This dude is a paranoid wannabe cop and the drugs he is on don't seem to help.

Kim, I see your point and another thing we can't have is Trayvon's side of the story since he is dead; i.e. how do we not know if Mr. Zimmerman didn't coerce Trayvon into attacking him if that is true that Trayvon did what the crook Zimmerman said. My guess is Mr. Zimmerman has always thought he was above the law.

sooo, where have you seen Zimermans side? LIE DETECTOR PEOPLE!!!

Kim,

How do you know he didn't? When the dispatcher told him he "didn't have to do that" (follow the thug), Zimmerman said "okay" and probably started back to his car.

How do you "coerce" someone into attacking you? Either you attack someone or they attack you, why do you want to blame the victim? Following a person and asking them a question does not "coerce" them into a violent physical assault against you. I hope you never drop something in a public place and have it picked up by an honest person. They might follow you and ask "hey, did you drop this?" and that would "coerce" you into trying to beat them to death. Interesting philosophy you have there. That might be valid behavior in a combat zone, but not on a neighborhood street in the USA.

How do you know he didn't? When the dispatcher told him he "didn't have to do that" (follow the thug), Zimmerman said "okay" and probably started back to his car.

Because we have a witness (the only credible witness who hasn't recanted) who heard Martin ask Zimmerman why he was following him when the altercation started. Thus we know Zimmerman is lying about being hit from behind and his self-defense claim is out. You pro-Zimmerman clowns need some logic and reasoning skills. How about this... let's have someone follow you in a vehicle, get out and follow you on foot when you attempt to get away from them, and then confront you. Now if you fight back that stranger at night who doesn't have any legal authority or identification (i.e badge/uniform) and they proceed to shoot you... well you are just out of luck because they shot in self-defense. Keep playing devil's advocate... Karma is a b1tch.

@Sad...your reasoning is flawed. It would be fairly easily to instigate a confrontation, if it was what a person was looking for, without ever attacking anyone. Especially if one was aleady following someone.

Are you telling me you would not react if I followed your daughter to her home? What if she was crying and maybe bleeding? Surely you would still have resolve and be able to see that I was just returning her belongings after she tripped a few blocks back when she fell? Yes, streets on in the USA should be great ones, but people like Zimmerman are bad too.

I see what side you stand on though. And here I read something below and thought you were intelligent. I was wrong.

Alan290, your quote is wrong.

911 dispatcher:
Are you following him? [2:24]
Zimmerman:
Yeah. [2:25]
911 dispatcher:
OK.
We don’t need you to do that. [2:26]
Zimmerman:
OK. [2:28]

This happened in night time not day time. Anyone chasing you from car to on foot and gets close to you and isnt a cop you would probably attack if you feel stuck and cant get away.

from what I understand after he was told to stop following him he said "OK". They then told him to get an exact address, so he got out to find that address. Of course most of the media only run their small little edited clips of the 911 call. This is apparently when Trayvon sees him and confronts him. It's a terrible tragedy that Trayvon had to die, but hard to know exactly what happened. Wouldn't want to be on that jury.

Well Jimmy you must be getting your information from Fox Blowhards... We know he was out of his vehicle and some distance away from vehicle when the shooting took place. He told the dispatcher he wasn't going to give an address because he didn't know where he was going to be when they got on location and to call him back when they arrived so he could give them his location. Now explain how you are a neighborhood watch person in a small community and do not know (or can't see from your vehicle) the address/location...

The irony with hindsight - Trayvon has more grounds to cite "stand your ground" that Zimmerman ever did - albeit too late for argument's sake.

My mistake ApacheRose, I guess I missed the part of the report where Zimmerman chased Trayvon's bleeding daughter into his house. Wouldn't his daughter be awfully young to be out alone? He was only 17, right? I know the brothers like to get started early, but damn, did he have a kid when he was 10? If Zimmerman was chasing his daughter into the house, then the prosecutor should really let people know about that. That could really bolster his case.

The case I heard about was the one where a guy smaller than him (or at least shorter, probably heavier) walked up to him and asked who/what/where/etc. before the fight broke out. The crux of the case is who started the fight. My comment was intended to point out that asking a person a question on the street is hardly "coercing" (in the words of Ed Orr) them into a physical attack on you.

Yes, if I walked into my daughter's bedroom and saw a naked man jerking off over her I might jump to the conclusion that his intentions might not be entirely pure and take some immediate action. I don't think constructing bizarre hypotheticals is very useful, though, since we know nothing like that happened in this case. The question is, does an athletic 17 year old male have a right to assume anyone approaching him on the street is such a threat that he is justified in violently assaulting them? And God forbid they should actually dare speak to him. Zimmerman was obviously a menace, speaking to people on the street. How dare he? I know I always try to beat to death anyone who speaks to me in public, I mean, who wouldn't, right? They "coerced" me, after all.

Zimmerman had no right or authority to follow or confront (talk) or otherwise impede Martin's rights. Now them are some facts!! Funny how some people create hypotheticals and become upset when they get pawned for their hypothetical. None of the sorry excuses some try and make up in their small minds are in the facts of the case!!!!

yes he did have a RIGHT to follow and confront tyavon...trayvon DID NOT have a right to strike zimmerman..them are the facts

weruledaworld

yes he did have a RIGHT to follow and confront tyavon...trayvon DID NOT have a right to strike zimmerman..them are the facts

You are correct, sir: Following someone is not a crime. Punching someone in the face is, however.

This whole affair reminds me of the old saying: "You have the right to hold your fist up to my face; but when your fist touches my nose - that's when YOUR rights end and MY rights begin"

Alan - If he started back to his car when he said ok, why was he not back at is car and in it when his conversation with the dispatcher ended almost 2 minutes after that? He only chased TM for a few seconds before he was told it wasn't necessary. As a matter of fact, why wasn't he walking back to his vehicle during that almost 2 minutes that he was talking to the dispatcher? He supposedly lost sight of TM, he was originally planning on meeting the police at the mailboxes. Why did he tell the dispatcher to have the police call him when they arrived so that he could direct them to his location if he was already on his way back to his vehicle to meet them?

weruledaworld - actually you don't know whether or not he had a right to strike GZ. We only have GZ's word (which was suspect right from the beginning) that he did nothing and was attacked. Someone seeing TM on top of GZ does not prove that he attacked GZ. Injuries sustained by GZ do not prove that TM attacked him. Any good investigator would be evaluating all of the evidence, not just "he said that it was in self defense, someone saw the other person on top of him beating him and he has a few injuries so it must be self defense". Not one single one of the facts prove that TM attacked GZ.

Sad,

I don't know where you got your report but GZ claims to have followed him in his vehicle. He claims to have chased him when he tried to get away, never once has he said that he attempted to ask him any questions. He claimed that he lost sight of him and was on his way back to his vehicle when he was attacked. Where in there is there any attempt to ask him any questions? Oh, I see, when he was following him in his vehicle with his windows up, he was attempting to stop him to ask him questions. When TM was running away he was only chasing after him to stop him to ask him a question. I guess TM was supposed to be a mind reader and know that this psycho that was following and chasing him was only trying to ask him a couple questions and he had no evil intent towards him. The only testimony that any questions were asked came from TM's gf who stated that she heard TM ask someone why they were following him and that person instead of identifying themselves as the neighborhood watch and telling him that there were problems in the neighborhood and asking him what he was doing in the community (which is what he should have done if he was going to confront anybody) only demanded to know what he was doing there. From there we do not know what happened except the gf heard what she thought might be a struggle and then the phone cut off. None of that proves that TM attacked GZ, as a matter of fact logically it could be concluded that GZ attempted to detain TM for the police and TM was defending himself. I love how GZ defenders love to twist the story and ignore anything that might contradict GZ's story.

But I thought Trayvon attacked Zimmerman.
I guess the facts will come out in court. I'm bored with this story but amazed at how people are so fixated on it.

The only thing we know for sure is that Zimmerman pursued Trayvon. Had he not, none of this would have happened. It seems to me that it was Trayvon Martin who was trying to protect himself.

violent assault on GZ? You mean Martin stood his ground when some idiot was following him at night in street clothes and decided to take the law in his own hands by shooting an unarmed kid.

Martin was not even close to being a street thug. He was a middle class recently turned 17 yr old with A/B average grades, into hip hop fashion and had typical teenage non-violent behavioral problems his parents were dealing with. He was staying in a middle class gated community and had simply gone to the store. The attempt to paint him as an aggressive street thug looking for trouble or up to no good is beyond stupid.

For "poor-little" Pedro4U

comment #6.1

....."and put you in the meat department."

So your pathetic little-Loser, and a Racist punk.

Bet you got beat up in grade school a lot.

Pedro 4U=another arm chair warrior talking smack on the internet. My internet rocket launcher trumps your internet gun Pedro. Please stop watching boys in the hood on loop and thinking you are hardcore and know the streets...ppffft

LOL I love the internets tough guy routine there "Pedro". Go eat yourself another twinkie and try to feel better about your miserable self.

Babylon Long Island

I dont think so.. he was suspended a few times from school...

So? Lots of middle class kids get suspended for one thing or another...especially for stuff like tardiness, etc. ...I was suspended 3 times in high school and I was an A/B student and I was a nerd. Kids do dumb and rebellious stuff.

broken family.....

What does that mean? Half of marriages fail. Millions of kids are from broken families and from the sounds of it , Trayvon's mother and father were civil and responsible in the separation and child custody situation.

not working

Seriously? He was a high school student...but how do you know he was not working part time or something?

.potsmoker...

Irrelevant, especially considering millions of high school kids smoke pot. And you have no idea to what degree he smoked.

the gold teeth thing going on....

typical hip hop fashion stuff...how out of touch are you with teen fashion today? Kids get fake gold to wear over their own teeth to look cool.

before he bought his innocent skittles.. he just spent some "time" with the GF...

On the phone...

this doesnt mean he deserves to be shot.. but gotta stop with the pics of him when he was 8 years old in his football uniform " alter boy image"...

There are lots of photos of Trayvon much closer to his actual age...like this one:

http://deeperwants.com/ratboys_anvil_2/2012/06/the-real-trayvon-martin.html

You really need to stop clutching those pearls and get out more.

I don't think they'll convict Zimmerman, as I think there is plenty there to warrant reasonable doubt and to think there may have been self defense on his part...but Culheath kicked your butt in debate just now...lol. He was right on every point in the above post.

Pedro the punk

Hi Culheath.....I thought the KKK and John Birchers were on the decline. Two steps forward and one step back. OOOOhhhh Skittles and Iced Tea... the choice of Gang members and thugs........if Skittles and Ice tea is so dangerous why wasn't Zimm packing them in a holster. OOOohhh there is a stranger, shoot him, he may have divorced parents, OOOOhhh stranger shoot him he may not be working, oooohhh stranger he might have worn gold grill at sometime, ooohhh stranger he might have smoked pot at sometime in his life.....OOOhhh stranger shoot him he may have been suspended in school at sometime......all of the B.S. found out after he was murdered. So justify a murder after you shoot to kill....jesus.....twisted thoughts....

Justice doesn't work that way.......Zimm put himself into jail, and no matter how hard you people try to justify a murder , you have NO say whatsoever.

It was Murder

Hey, starsailing,

I hear ya...

The part I find amazing is that the people who scream the loudest about letting Zimmerman get his day in court and not to let him be tried in the court of public opinion in order to preserve and protect the American Way of "assumed innocence until proven guilty", are the very same people rabidly and in excruciating detail trying to avoid granting Trayvon exactly the same right to innocence.

If the entire topic weren't so tragic, it could quite humorous...but as it is, the cognitive dissonance just sad and pathetic. Kind of like the tea party people who carried the signs reading "Tell the government to keep it's hands off my Medicare!"

Hey Cul...there was a study on why teabaggers are confused on voting against themselves especially on healthcare. So they gave them a list of medical terms and asked them for description of the words/word. So I see how the teabaggers get confused on Zimmermans unknown injuries. Examples

Artery ......place where you study art.

Bacteria....back door to cafeteria

benign.......what you be after 8

coma.........a punctuation mark

labor pain.....getting hurt at work

pelvis...........a cousin of Elvis

Hey Star:

Shame, shame, ROFLMAO!!!! You nearly made me bust a gut. LOL, LOL,LOL!

Why is it that when you get two liberals in a room together the only thing positive that comes from the meeting is a release of negativism?

Personally I think this country should be turned over to the true moderates. Tea baggers and Kool aid drinkers have no grip on reality, and are generally ugly disagreeable people.

Examples include Sarah Palin, Nancy Pelosi, Barrack Obama, and Mitt Romney.

If you put these people in a shark cage, and opened the door, the world would let out a collective sigh of relief.

My sister in Calif is a teabagger...she is screaming leave my Soc sec alone, leave my medicare alone , and she was a nurse for 50 yrs....she sent it to me! She now sees the Ryan plan taking aprt Soc sec, medicare and is so confused....she hates mex, she hates blacks(she dated a great guy 7 yrs) and now is Jesus saves 24/7. She is trying to explain medical coverage in teabaggers meetings, and they can't grasp the concept...

But how did Zimmerman know Trayvon was unarmed? He didn't.
Get my drift?

Still, I certainly agree Zimmerman is guilty of being stupid.

starsailing, but Zimmerman said he supports social security just the way it is. He does want us to get out of Pakistan though. His position on global warming seems a little weak.

Charles-1820634, you're easily amused.

Starsailing . . what kind of person makes comments about their Sister on a public forum? VERY trashy.

And you've never told a lie in your life?

Doesn't matter how big or small, whether it was to your mother or a judge--a lie is a lie.

And if you tell one, then you're a liar.

And we all are...including me.

As the good book says--let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

GZ has told more than one lie since he made this mess. In his "so called" apology to Trayvon Martin's parents he told a blatant lie that he didn't know how old the teen was. He said under oath for all the world to hear that he thought Trayvon was just a few years young than him. Well on the infamous 911 call he told the operator that the "suspicious character" appeared to be in his late teens. Man, every time GZ opens his mouth, he lies or twists something about his case.

@Kimbo - we're not talking about small lies or anything like that. We're talking about lying about having around $150,000.00 in his defense account with evidence that he clearly knew he had that amount. He's a person who's trying to build credibility as someone who shot and killed another person who was armed with only an iced tea and a package of Skittles who was also running away from him at the time he hung up on the police who told him to stay where he was. And remember, he was most likey under oath to tell the truth and nothing but the truth!

Of course I have lied, as you point out everybody does..... but not one time in 55 years have I lied to a judge.

I will be happy to cast a stone. It in no way says I am without sin but I can assure you I will never lie to a judge or the court. Thanks for making the rest of us seem as idiotic as Zimmerman and his wife.

It means let he who is without fault condemn them to death... or if you look at it in more philosophical terms, it means you do not say that the person is guilty without PROOF!!! Ya, something you wackjobs never seem too have

You say you would never lie to a judge--have you faced one?

People lie to judges, their own mother, the bank, the store when they return a purchase and say they never used it, the cop when he's writing a ticket for that stop sign you ran that you swear you didn't, come on...are you guys that naive?

The point is lying doesn't make you guilty of murder.

And BTW the "size" of the lie doesn't make it a bigger lie than any other lie.

A lie is a lie is a lie is a lie is a lie.

If you've ever lied--regardless to who, you're a liar too. Period!

I don't think someone should be judged if they are a murderer or not based on the fact that they are a liar--if so, then we're all guilty.

Let the "facts" that come out in court decide his guilt or not. Him lying about money--doesn't mean anything to me, people lie about less and more everyday.

I've prosecuted thousands of cases over the years, and in virtually every case somebody lies about something, that's just a fact of life in the criminal justice system. And guess what? I checked the records, and in the entire history of my district, more than 150 years, not a single person has ever been prosecuted for perjury. Fair notice, it is a relatively small district, only about 50,000 people, but still...

The point is, perjury is a BS charge that is only used when a prosecutor backs himself into a corner and has to grasp at straws to avoid looking stupid. In federal courts, they have the advantage that lying to federal police is a crime, while lying to local and state police is not. Remember Martha Stewart? They went on TV and said they were going to put her away for insider trading. A few months later, when they realized they had no case, they went back over her files and saw she lied about some meaningless detail that she probably didn't even remember, and they used that to lock her up on the charge of "lying to the FBI."

There is a good reason why it is generally regarded as unethical behavior to "try your case in the media." It serves the dual purpose of making a fair trial impossible and locking the prosecutor into a "win at any cost" attitude. Anybody in my office who talks to the media about an ongoing case would be fired the next day, period. Probably some bloated ego wants to run for governor or attorney general, and figures a good hate-crime trial can get them some attention. Pathetic.

sad@ post 7.8

Your integrity is in question. From the point of view you express in your comments me thinks you are no more then a paralegal, and a bad one at that.

Sad but not surprised

Your posting pleases me. You are spot on! You restore my faith that there are still decent attorneys.

I have found that most DA's have their own personal agenda at hand, and not that of justice. They ladder climb on the back of citizens for personal gain.

There is something about integrity, decency, and honor that appeals to one. You are someone I would be honored to work for. Thank you for your posting.

Here ill really make people mad.Every young punk(no matter what color)likes to dress with this thug look,hoodie and low slung pants.Common you now the look.They all look like people you would end up shooting when they make the mistake of breaking into the wrong house.People on the east coast like alarms,out west we have guns.Its amazing how polite people are when everyone is armed.Florida is a big crime ridden crap hole.It would be interesting to hear from all the neighbors on the block about all the breakins and crime.They did want people patroling theyre neighborhood didnt they?there must have been a reason. So to bad the young man was dressed a certain way and didnt comply with zimmerman.

I actually feel for the kid and his parents.To bad he dressed like a thug.Oh and if anyone walks down your street dressed like a nazi or KKK member i wouldnt be surprised if someone shot them either.Now zimmerman is being tried and convicted by the media.

Remember Martha Stewart? They went on TV and said they were going to put her away for insider trading. A few months later, when they realized they had no case, they went back over her files and saw she lied about some meaningless detail that she probably didn't even remember, and they used that to lock her up on the charge of "lying to the FBI."

That was unfair.

However, what is sad is that Trayvon cannot tell his side of the story while Zimmerman can tell his side. I think, therefore, credibility IS important. In any case, we need to let a jury decide in a court of law.

They would lie to a judge down there. You wouldn't be dumb to do that crap in Virginia. They put your ass in jail for a year or more over stupid @!$%#. Yeah, depends on where you are I guess if your not scared to lie.

Kimbo...I have had to face a judge for a very stupid thing that had nothing to do with me. I would share but it is trivial and not like a drunk driving charge or anything. My credibility matters to me so I am somewhat insulted that you can say we all lie.

Is Kimbo seriously comparing lying to a judge under oath to telling your boss you have the flu to get out of work? If you don't know there is a difference then you have a problem. We are talking about a person purposely lying to the court to conceal the moving of funds. The law was explained to Mr. Zimmerman and his rights were explained and he chose to lie to the court,that is against the law so please don't compare cheating on your third grade math quiz with committing a crime because they are not the same. It doesn't mean he committed murder but it does mean his credibility is at question now.

I am twice the age Zimmerman, have never lied to a judge or killed anyone in self defense. So the boy can't go to the store? Who is making that rule. Strange Zimmerman is the only one that had a problem with him walking from the store. Martin wasn't hiding in the bushes. Run? If he ran home you all would say he must be guilty because he was running. How do you know without a doubt, Zimmerman didn't grab his shirt, intending to show his authority and to harrass him a bit? Giving him the third degree, telling him about how much trouble they had been havin in the community. I believe he was trying to play cop and things went south.

Last bastion if the perpetually inccorect is attacking the person and not there argument there Silverrob. Thanks for the heads-up!

Kimbo-No I have never lied to a judge or under oath, yes I have been in court on multiple occasions having been a paramedic for 18 yrs and divorced x1. Besides your logic is flawed, by your reasoning GZ cannot be guilty of any type of murder because he has never murdered before. Sorry flawed logic.

Sad-I'm glad to hear of an attorney, even a prosecutor, who has principles. Fortunately I do believe most attorneys are of upstanding principles-as long as you look at who they represent and that defense and prosecutors come from different direct directions.

One and all-I believe that it is truly unfortunate that this case had received so much attention. This young man is now going to find it very difficult to obtain a fair and impartial trial. And even if found innocent of the most serious charge of murder he will probably never be able to lead a normal life again.

Sad but not surprised, lied by saying he's prosecuted thousands of liars. Come on now!

Any attorney who has "thousands of cases, does not have time to hang out and post in these types of silly forums. Good God Man! Not all of us are dumb...sheez.

Actually, Silverrob, paralegals are not recognized in my state, so strictly speaking there is no such thing here. You can get a class certificate as a "paralegal" but it doesn't make you any different than a secretary. Aside from that, there are plenty of secretaries and "paralegals" who have been around longer than I have and have seen even more cases than I have, so I'm not clear where your argument is heading there. I assume the idea is that since you think I'm wrong, I must be lying, and so I'm probably lying about my job as well? In any event, my personal experience is just a set (though a pretty large one) of anecdotes, and so I admit it doesn't prove anything conclusively. I can say that I've never heard anything from anybody else in law enforcement that has had significantly different experiences. The last person I heard of being charged with perjury was Bill Clinton, and I hear he beat the rap.

Kimbo47... yes have faced several Judges, again never lied to a judge..... but then I have not murdered anybody either.

Very few cases go to a full trial Steve L. You can go through 20 or 30 cases in a day when they are just pleading out. I told you I am from a small district, obviously we don't have thousands of murder trials even over a whole career. My point was that even if a guy is just coming in to plead guilty to a speeding ticket, it never fails he wants to says he was only going 97 in that school zone, not 99, or some other crap. Try sitting in on a divorce trial, it is almost nothing but hours of completely opposite testimony from the two sides about the exact same events. Somebody is lying their ass off, usually they both are. How many get charged with perjury? None. If you doubt this just pick an attorney at random from the phone book and call and ask them.

That's why you know, whenever you hear about somebody being charged with perjury, the case is in serious trouble. Why would I hit you with perjury when I have a murder trial going? When you have a big case you don't do things to intentionally complicate matters, that only helps the defense. The head of our local public defender's office describes the defense attorney's job as "muddy the waters, create as much confusion as possible and hope that some reasonable doubt falls out of the mix." Why would the prosecutor help him do that? Either the prosecutor is an idiot, or they are trying to nail down something (anything) so they don't have to sneak out the back door of the court house after Zimmerman walks out the front.

Sad but not truly surprised, PLEASE.

Ain't buying a word of it. Any attorney with "thousands" of cases is too damn busy to be posting and rambling on or rebutting their point of view at 1:30 am on a Tuesday morning. In most jurisdictions court begins at 9:30 am... Your gonna tell me you would rather debate me about this silliness then get a good night sleep so you could do a good job representing the people you are supposed to work for... Sorry, but you have multiple collasped comments...LIAR SAD BUT NOT SUPRISED.

FACT: Your 1st collapsed comment was at 9:28am. The comment before this was 4 hours later. 1:24am. You couldn't prosecute your way out of a paper bag. LIAR LIAR Pants ON FIRE!

Tomorrow's court is not in my division, so I get a day off, but thank you for your concern (start time is 9 AM, not 9:30). As to my slow responses, I am multi-tasking. I am currently playing two different online games, reading news, and trying to keep you people straight. Sorry if you catch a little lag time there. Finally, I am impressed with your ability to evaluate an attorney from a few threads about a silly story that should not even be in the news. You should hire yourself out as a talent scout for the big firms, they pay nice commissions and with your amazing ability you'd be dominating the industry in no time.

If you knew any lawyers, you would know all we do is ramble and rebut and argue and dissect your arguments. It's the job, and after a while it becomes an instinct, as natural and effortless as breathing. Sorry if that offends you, but that's how it is.

Hey sad but not surprised:

Hope your lawyering skills are better than your reading skills. I recall the prosecutors wanted the judge to put a seal on the evidence. However, the defense argued against the same and the judge decided to not keep evidence out of public domain. Here in Florida I think they call it "Sunshine Law????." So, the defense was happy to have the opportunity to spread FUD in order to spin Zimmerman as this God loving, saintly purveyor of justice. But, Lo and behold the prosecutors struck back. Then we get penny ante lawyers that cry foul!!! And the same think they advance the intent of the American Jurisprudence. Go figure that one out--Mr. Suit!!!!

Sad but not surprised, Bravo.

Any good lawyer is not playing screw around in the middle of the night.

Re -posting 20 times about stupid stuff.

Yup Sad is not a lawyer. So then the whole Bill Cinton/lewinsky thing should never have happened? Perjury was a big deal back then. In fact it was such a bad offense the Newtser felt he needed to impeach Clinton. And you all defend Gingrinch saying well he never pujured himself when talking about his affairs

I would have to agree with Sad but not surprised. Why would they release all the evidence of the 'perjury', but not the actual case? Could it be that Zim has been overcharged from the beginning, and they don't have enough evidence to back up the murder 2 charge? Now it's all about influencing prospective jurors into making Zimmerman look like a lying racist child hunter, and distract from the real facts.

You miss my point, Romneynightmare. The Clinton thing was a political maneuver, obviously, which is exactly what I've been saying all along. Perjury is what they charge you with when they have nothing better to do to you.

Sarah Palins kinda guy!

She loves them armed and Stupid as they come .....

Keep reloading dumb morons

jstdafacts, the more you write, the more stupid you sound. So far you're pretty ignorant.

Keep pounding keys Pooty Putt

Some day you may earn some green stars

Just say ......

More immature comments from justina777.

Obsessed with Justina?

Dont be a creepy oaf

I don't know who is dumber...the OP, or the people who marked the OP as a good comment. Holy crap, some people are idiots.

The comments on the vine are like leaves in the wind. If there's an article that supports Zim's statements, the pro-Zimmerman posts get the most votes, and if there's an article like this one, the racists and left wingnuts come out and get voted up...

And how is that? Facts speak louder than any words...his injuries, paramedic notes of his injuries, initial witness statements that TM was on top of him beating him up all support his side of the story (and yes, I've read the evidence files released thus far).

If you were on the jury, you would have no choice but to look at the facts of the case and leave your own personal opinion at home, where it belongs.

I believe he shot TM in self-defense--based on the evidence that has been released thus far.

I also believed he misled the court on the money--ok, he did. He's 28 years old--to me (at 52), he's a kid that made a stupid mistake. And he'll pay for that, by either staying in jail, etc.

BUT - that doesn't make him a murderer. And based on what's been released to the public thus far, there's reasonable doubt all over this case and with reasonable doubt, you cannot convict.

sometime you also have to put yourself in someone else's shoes to understand.. If your child is walking and a grown man follows him and all of sudden they began to fight but your son is the better fighter.. The guy kills your son. I can pretty much guarantee you will not say Zimmeron should not go to jail and that it was self defense. He took it to another level when he used a gun. Most people cannot put themselves in someone else's shoes until it happens to them.

He was told my 911 not to pursue. He is a hard headed idiot. Now he tried to hide $$ from the court. Didn't give up all passports (what the hell do you need with 2). He typical central FL Hispanic, they are right and everyone else is wrong.

I'm so glad I got out of that IDIOT state

Kimbo47

Great post. I agree 100% - And we are to believe that the prosecution is the most truthful of all people? Not buying that one.

And those taped monitored calls? They will interrupt them to whatever they want them to say.

Ever heard, "I have a secret"? Any by the time that secret gets back - it is nothing like what the "Original" secret was.

Thanks Renee--at least I know I'm not the only one.

Hell, after reading the transcript of Call 1 and 2 I couldn't tell what the heck was going on.

They have areas where it says that you can't even hear what was said.

My whole point is - let the facts and evidence come out in court. Let a jury decide guilty or not guilty.

Let the guy have his day in court, that's all I'm saying.

One little correction to the story, only cash transactions over $10,000 require reporting to the IRS. Transfers from paypal are not necessarily reportable.

Kim, you are most welcome. For all those claiming to be Americans, this should have been decided in the court, and not in the public opinion.

Remember, in America, one is presumed innocent, unless proven otherwise in a court of law. THAT is the American way. And your choice of party has not bearing.

@kimbo & @renee I totally agree, the only 2 prosecutions they could get on him are manslaughter(for being stupid) and maybe perjury...

Kimbo

You've obviously have never been chased down by a man with a gun. With all the antics Zimmerman had gone through to follow Martin, I can rest assured that Zimmerman scared Martin into a fight or flight situation. Martin's deadly mistake was to fight Zimmerman and not keep moving to his friends house. Stand your ground does not mean chase the person down and escalate the situation.

Only 2 people know exactly what happened. The dead one cannot speak, but the living person is screaming loud and clear to me that he does not care about anything or anyone other than his own self. And he apparently will do anything to profit from the public that donates to his "defense fund".

I try to heed the warning signs when I enter the zoo - "DON'T FEED THE ANIMALS" - is the sign that I see regarding donating to this animal.

He will have a fair trial just like he gave Martin.

there's reasonable doubt all over this case and with reasonable doubt, you cannot convict.

Yeah, ask O.J., boneheads.

But Kimbo and Renee...what you call facts are not really facts at all. Zimmerman's injuries? Sorry but if we are taking his story as a "fact", his head was bashed into concrete, no? If you dare, go outside and lay on a sidewalk. You think you'll end up with a just a cut if someone forcefully slams your head into that concrete? Come on now. There would be bruising and far more blood. Should I even bother going into the effects of a concussion or even brain damage? Zimmerman was up and walking. Anyone who has their head slam into a solid surface, be it the ground or concrete likely wouldn't have been able to walk calmly into the police station. Same with the grass on the back of his jacket as if to surmise, "Okay...he said he was in the grass with the kid on top of him...so yep, grass on his back? Yep, so kid must have been on top of him." No, that is not how it works. As easily as he wants people to know Martin attacked him first, he could easily have attacked Martin first, shot him, then rolled around in the grass to make it look like he was the victim. To me, the sudden stop of a scream is quite telling. There is no way it was Zimmerman. He would have kept screaming after the shot went off. Please tell me this one too. If Martin attacked Zimmerman near his car, next to the street/sidewalk, how did they end up in between/behind a house? If Zimmerman is telling the truth, Martin's momentum would have moved them closer to his car(practically right beside it), not further away from it---in the opposite direction. I can speculate as to how but I am interested in the Angela Corey presenting her evidence like the police wanted to do with Zimmerman in the first place but the District Attorney refused.

My point is...what many see as facts are not facts at all. It is a story. The last fact we know is Zimmerman hung up the phone with the dispatcher. He said he was returning to his car. It does not mean that is what he was doing though. Also, even if he was, Zimmerman had a right to stand his ground, but Martin did not? Seems like a biased view to me.

I'm not a bleeding heart liberal trying to protect someone because he was "shot while black". I also am very much okay with responsible gun owners carrying weapons. However, there is no evidence Martin was doing any wrong and every part of Zimmerman's story has holes. The fact that he and wife hid money from the courts further discredits his story...to the point that all of it could be made up. Facts are facts. His story is not fact.

I mean, let's say I follow someone down the street...all the way to their door. By definition, I am doing exactly what Zimmerman did and everyone seems to think that was okay. if all I do is follow, I can follow them all the way without breaking any laws. If that person decides to react to me following them, is it my fault or on them? What if it was your daughter or your wife? In my world, it would be totally on me...but in my world, it is also understood that all parties have an equal right to protect themselves from a threat. Not just the guy we appear to like more because the other guy was a punk and "possibly up to no good".

ApacheRosePea00

There is the prosecution, and then there is the defense. The prosecution is always zealous - they hate losing.

All Kim and I are saying is, let the court / jury decide the facts. No one posting here was there. No one should be tried in public opinion. That serves no one.

IMHO, there is not enough true facts to form an opinion.

It really tickles me how some people are quick to say 'innocent until proven guilty'. Bet you all are the same folks that wanted to lynch O.J. when he was found innocent. If you're going to be open minded, don't just pick and choose your causes.

My bad, that was the court of public opinion for another cause......

Please, all of you who keep referring to poor kid Trayvon Martin who was only carring Skittles and tea. Please Google LEAN. It is a druggie concoction. Skittles, tea & codine. Maybe , just maybe Trayvon wasn't quite as innocent as you think.

Then why do you and Kimbo keep doing so? The views you are saying are an opinion, one based on what you think you know, whether you realize it or not.

Example...you want to know know why Martin was out "in the wee hours of the morning"...after curfew...

Needless to say, it was only 1900 hours and not after any curfew...but what does asking that question even matter? By doing so, you are implying Martin somehow was responsible for his death. Again, that is forming an opinion. Something both of you have told others not to do.

I'm all for the facts being decided in a court of law as well. Sadly, the police botched parts of the case that never should be botched and the original DA chose not to bring charges, even though the police questioned the validity of Zimmerman's story. The very fact that they were willing to pursue charges should tell us something.

Here is one mistake for you. Zimmerman was never drug tested, yet, we have since learned he had scripts for anxiety type medications, which can severely affect one's ability to make rational choices in the heat of the moment. But Martin? He was drug tested before the police even knew his name...

The only reason I come to stories about this case is to see if people from each side have finally decided to stop spewing hate and ignorance and grow from this. Unfortunately, I doubt that is ever going to happen.

Silverrob

You are not in a position to speak for me, or anyone else, that believes this belongs in a court of law, and not a media circus, or a dog and pony show, for public opinion.

I was not one that wanted OJ lynched. I am open-minded, and I do choose to let the courts decide, and I am NOT swayed by public opinion. I am swayed by facts.

FREE ZIMMERMAN! NOT GUILTY. My house needs to be remodeled. I figure after the riots and burning of neighborhoods the government will print a lot of money and give it away. Only problem is my neighborhood is only about 25% black and they're too busy working to burn down our houses. Maybe some outside help will come in and take care of it.

You're a real class act talking about his wife's weight, aren't you.

If that's all you took from that picture, then I understand why you have a donkey as your avatar--because you're an a$$.

My comment is thank goodness for the defeat of the Spanish Armada in 1588 or we would be speaking Spanish and have the perm. chip on the shoulder that Hispanics have down there.

Remember the old saying "There is no future in being stupid"? Seems times have changed!

Correction... That is a donkey taking a dump out of an elephants nose.

Se hable el bogus espanoil?

You are just upset about getting bilked out of your money.

Darn... yanking chains isn't as fun when it's sooooo easy.

No you people go on and waste a whole lot of time thinking your conversations here actually have SOME value. I just drop by on occasion to make fun of you. Mucho grassy-ass for the entertainment.

GZ's wife needs to quit scarfing cookies and donuts

Guilty Geo is gonna need some of that Sucker $$ for prison snacks

Actually, the more I see and hear of his wife, I feel a bit sorry for him. I'll bet she has more to do with his behaviour then we know. If you listen to any of the 40 something 911 call that he made before the incident he is always bringing up how his wife saw someone who might fit the descriptioon of robber that was seen.

the more I see and hear of his wife, I feel a bit sorry for him.

I listened to the 6 jailhouse calls, and GZ sounds like he thinks his wife is an idiot! He kept asking her if she understood, and telling her to write things down, put reminders on phones! He even tells his sister to make sure she does everything he told her to do...if my husband treated me like that...he wouldn't be my husband!

And that evidence is where?

Geez, you must have ESP.

You've judged and convicted him already...great American you are.

And that evidence is where?

He already lied to the court, he already lied in a judge's face and he hasn't even gone to trial yet. His wife was arrested, thrown in jail and charged with perjury for lying.

"Credibility"? What "credibility"? I wouldn't believe him if he told me it was daytime outside.

Typical Tea Baggers, as far as they are concerned the only "laws" they "have to" abide by are the ones they "just happen" to agree with.

Kimbo47-

Judged and convicted is a much better option than judged and executed wouldn't you agree?

Willy Wonka 787 Zimmerman is a registered Democrat. So he is not a member of the Teaparty.

Sorry to hurt your Democrat feelings. You can go ahead and vote for Obama. I will vote for the better choice and that is not Obama.

Willy_Wonka787

"Typical Tea Baggers, as far as they are concerned the only "laws" they "have to" abide by are the ones they "just happen" to agree with".

Really? You think "Tea Baggers" are the only ones? I think this goes both ways.

Willy Wonka 787 Zimmerman is a registered Democrat. So he is not a member of the Teaparty.

There are Tea Baggers who "call themselves" Democrats. Doesn't make them so.

Hey, Willy Wonka, that description sounds just like Eric Holder.....The AG of the United States. He has done everyone of the things you have ascribed to Zimmerman. Just add Congress to the list of lied to's and it will be correct.

If George Zimmerman wasn't a Tea party member before after the way he has been treated he will be after he is acquitted. Bail is supposed to guarantee your appearance at trial not punish you before trial. He no longer has a job and the money that was contributed was for his bail and defense other than that he is broke. Justice in this country is supposed to be decided by a jury of your peers. Not MSNBC or even FOX news.

GZ didn't have a job before all this happened.

Gee Vern, may be if georgie didn't lie to the court he wouldn't have been hauled back to jail. But he's the victim in all this, right? TM got off easy, he's dead. But poor georgie is so distraught by the way he's been treated. I mean after listening to the tapes I could tell that he was soooo distraught by the way he was whispering to his wife in code about how to move funds around so that he wouldn't get caught messing around with cash he didn't have or wasn't suppose to have access to.

I also love the way the little wifey took special care to make seven or eight withdrawals of not more then $10,0000 each. They knew if any withdrawals were $10,000 or more, the transaction would've been flagged by the governement. Yes, just your typical honest behavior coming from America's favorite, zany couple. So you see, it's not georgie's fault he got caught and sent back to jail, it's the media's fault for reporting it...Oh and Obama's fault, and TM's fault, and etc., etc., etc.

Lets not get too worked up now. The courts will decide.

How come we never hear from any other members of this "neighborhood watch"

Romneyismynightmare

A point I have repeatedly asked. I kind of suspect he is the only Neighborhood WATCH volunteer.

I did see some early interviews of neighbors. They complained about him being a pain in the azz control freak who harassed them. Surprise, surprise!

Zimmerman has now established his personal level of credibility, respect for law and respect for the people who donated to his defense fund.

Clearly P. T. Barnum was right, there's a sucker born every minute.

Zimmerman seems to enthusiastically practice the other corollaries of that P. T. Barnum slogan:

A) "It is morally wrong to allow suckers to keep their money.",

B) "Once you have their money, never give it back."

and

C) "Stupid people get what they deserve."

Its a reach,just anything to get the man.I dont care how much money he had.The bail is just to make sure he came back,and he did.So he wanted to pay bills and is there some kind of rules about what you have to do with money.

Reminds me of all the hate for Romney because he is wealthy. More class and race hatred by the left.

I don't hate Romney because he's wealthy. I don't like him because he doesn't have any ideas. The man is an empty suit (albeit an expensive one). Where is his plan? He changes his rhetoric like socks. Is he going to pull a Scott Walker on us and not divulge anything until he's in office? Too late! I've lived in Wisconsin all of my life (71+yrs) and I can assure you that we now have the best governor money can buy (thanks to the Koch brothers).

Kimbo,

While I wholeheartedly concur that every accused deserves their day in court and fair hearing, your statement that the evidence backs up his story signifies that you have made up your mind. Evidence is not determined fact until it has been tested and weighed, a process that has not yet occurred and will be performed during the trial and in deliberations after all admissible evidence and testimony has been heard and seen. Only then will anyone be sure of "fact." There are contradictory pieces of evidence and allegations right now, nothing more.

Haven't MADE UP MY MIND.

Based on what has been released thus far--I see not guilty.

If additional facts come out--facts, not fiction, then I am capable of changing my mind and admitting I was wrong--not a problem.

Lying about the money is not a contradictory allegation or evidence of murder--that's what I'm trying to say.

Ro Mar,

That is right on what you said. Kimbo get a clue and stop trying to make up stuff to protect him. He chased down a person and confronted him then shot him when he was probably losing the fight. Put yourself in the young man's shoes for a minute and are suddenly facing an angry person who wants to know what you are doing there when it is none of his business and since you weren't doing anything to be confronted for.

@kimbo

"Haven't MADE UP MY MIND.

Based on what has been released thus far--I see not guilty".
A contradition.

There's no evidence that has been released to the public that he "chased" down anyone. Look up the definition of chased.

I don't know this man and didn't know TM.

But what I do see, in the media and on the internet--the intent to try and convict this man without benefit of trial by jury and that burns my butt.

I believe in the law and someone being considered innocent until proven guilty.

And it absolutely amazes me that there are so many narrow minded people in this country that don't.

I've been approached by strangers when I was minding my own business and I didn't jump them and start beating their head on the ground.

So let's get some perspective here.

I'm truly sorry that TM is dead, I have two grown children myself. But, that does not mean that the person who shot him should be tried, convicted and executed by public opinion without all the facts and evidence presented in a court room.

And I'm shocked that more people are not outraged by the release of information that will prejudice a jury and the fact that he is being railroaded thus far without his day in court by you and those who have decided to judge him without benefit of his day in court.

It just goes to show you that the United States is going to hell in a handbasket.

Kimbo,how are you sure that Trevon beat MURDERER GEORGE to the ground?! Were you there?!Are you going to be georgee boys star witness?!

He clearly followed and chased down a young man who was doing nothing more "suspicious" than returning home to the apartment in the complex where his dad was waiting for him.

News Flash, black people wearing hoodies have just as much right to live in nice apartment complexes as anybody else. And they have no "obligation" whatsoever to "show me your papers" or "prove" anything to anybody at all.

In case nobody has ever adequately explained this, Zimmerman did not have any "right" to "stop and question" anybody. He was not a cop, he was not a peace officer, he was Nobody, he had no legal or recognized "authority" to question anybody at all.

Trayvon Martin was not "trespassing", he was not an "intruder", he had every right in the world to be there and he did not "owe" any "explanations" to Zimmerman or anybody else. The correct answer to Zimmerman's "questions" was "None of your bleeping business."

He stalked and then shot an unarmed man. Give him a fair trial and then take him out and hang him.

@ Kimbo - I would never have to worry about the shoe being on the other foot because if I called a police dispatcher about a suspicious person, and they asked me if I was following them, and then told me not to - I wouldn't. Because I have a brain in my head. He admitted to the dispatcher that he was following Trayvon - that is not standing your ground, that is pursuing. When you pursue someone, you deserve to get your @$$ beat - Trayvon was a minor, George was not, he should have been the adult and backed away, it doesn't matter if Trayvon was beating him up. It's not very common for a fist fight to turn into a gun fight, or we would have a lot more gun fights. You can tout your innocent until proven guilty tag line all day long, but at the end of the day, there is also such a thing as ignorance, and you seem to suffer from it. You're not on the jury, you're not in the court, feel free to create an opinion.

Willy_Wonka787

"He clearly followed and chased down a young man who was doing nothing more "suspicious" than returning home to the apartment in the complex where his dad was waiting for him".

Why was this minor on the streets, at the wee hours of the morning, long past the curfew for him to be on the streets? And, I believe the newspaper stated (IF it is believable) that his father was not at his girlfriend’s home. He was out with his girlfriend. If that was not the case - why didn't Trayvon call his father, who should have been right there, close by, instead of his girlfriend? This is just a thought.

Why was this minor on the streets, at the wee hours of the morning, long past the curfew for him to be on the streets?

The incident occurred at 7:09 p.m., not in "the wee hours of the morning" at all. Your comment is what I would describe as "starting from a false premise and proceeding directly to a false conclusion."

@Renee---it was around 1900 hours(7:00PM). In other words, nowhere near the "wee hours" of the morning. Actually, we know exactly what he was doing. Returning to his Dad's girlfriend's home...where her son was waiting for him to watch the NBA All-Star game because his dad was out on a date. That sounds pretty dead on since I did the exact same thing that evening. Sadly, I did it in PA or I would have went to the store for them. Since I am white, Zimmerman never would have come after me...according to his own words on the 911 tape, "They always get away."

@Kimbo...you are doing the very thing you are telling others not to do. Looking at the evidence as you see it and coming to a conclusion when the "facts" as you keep calling them, are not facts at all.

For starters, where is the undeniable proof that Martin beat Zimmerman's head in the ground? Show me that, then maybe I'll hear you out but the people defending Zimmerman seem to have forgotten this is not a case of innocent until proven guilty. Zimmerman killed Martin. We know that. What we do not know is whether or not Zimmerman did it in self-defense. All the prosecutor has to do is show reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not act in self-defense. My guess is that will not be too difficult. As I said to Renee, the very notion that he would only stop Martin but not me if I was walking down the street---because I am white---would be plenty to cast reasonable doubt. It shows he had ill intentions and likely reacted to the way Martin looked---there was absolutely no evidence Martin was doing wrong. Unless you have a jury full of racists and when I say racists, I am not talking about just those supporting Zimmerman. I am talking about any person, no matter if they are black, purple, white, yellow, brown, or green...and judges someone else by the color of their skin...

Wow Renee... so now being out after curfew warrents getting MURDERED??? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.... and what the heck does his father and the girlfriend being home have to do with anything?? At his age he didn't need a babysitter, so where is the relevance?? Martin had just as much right to "stand his ground" as the stalker Zimmerman... even more so, as he did NOTHING wrong to be followed, harrassed, and questioned. BTW.. I think it has already been established he was out at that time because he was coming home from the store after buying candy and tea... for a young boy... wow, what a gangster. Your argument holds NO water as is irrelevant.

Oh and BTW.. it wasn't the "wee hours" it was 7:00 PM, a perfectly respectable time for an older teen to be walking from the store. Stop making things up to justify the murder of an innocent child... or at least do your research. Zimmerman murdered that child... there is NO DOUBT in my mind about that. At least I'm honest enough to admitt I have already decided.. unlike you. But anyone who would try to defend the PROVEN lier Zimmerman probably doesn't care about the truth if it doesn't fit neatly into the little fairy tale you've created in your mind.

Lying to a judge in a court of law is different than lying to your buds. That is so because we the American People decided that it is so!!!! We also made it a crime!!!!

Right now it is just a charge. They still need to prove it don't they?

If you're referring to me, a$$ is not a slur. His avatar is a half a donkey a$$ and half an elephant.

I don't usually mudsling on forums, but I can't stand it when some pompous a$$ talks about someone's weight--it's rude--he's not married to her, none of his business.

Speak about the subject or move to another forum.

Actually, I was not speaking about you. Now you're just being argumentative and looking for a fight that isn't here.

Actually I'm not, but thank you for reading my mind.

I thought you were, I was wrong.

I'm a big girl and can admit it and I apologize to you.

Likewise, her weight really isn't your business either...so the person who said it could say the same to you. Just saying.

They look like they go together well...would insulting her for marrying an idiot be wrong? Oh wait...she is no smarter than he is doing as he suggested. Pay off credit cards with a defense fund? Glad I never donated.

Kimbo47 your logic is unbelievable. You keep saying that just because Zim lied about the money, it doesn't make him a murderer, but what it does make him is a liar, and if he lied to a federal court judge about the money he had, then I would think it reasonable that he perhaps could lie about his version of the events the day TM lost his life to escape going to prison, just as he lied about his finances to avoid being subjected to a higher bail amount. Why is that so hard for you to understand?

Oh and BTW ApacheRosePea you just might be the smartest person posting on this forum. Some of these comments are so ignorant that I feel compelled to respond, but then I read your responses and they take the words right out of my mouth. And one more point. To all the people that keep making the comments about trayvon's pictures, his brother did an interview and said that the photo of him on the horse was taken only 8 days prior to him being killed, so these photos just might be more recent than you think. But then again I don't see the relevance of any of these compaints. Feel free to chime in but are you guys bringing the gold teeth, (which was already proven to be a different person) the hoodie (Zim talked about wearing one himself in the phone calls) the thuggish look and all of the other things you keep saying into the conversation as a justification of him being killed or what? If that is true, then every one of us who has smoked pot, have parents that are divorced, got suspended from school, walked to a store at night, or carried candy and iced tea in a plastic bag should be killed. And if we go by that logic, then the world is crazy.

Very well said Romar

Jack, you're funny. You know none of the facts but you have already decided Zimmerman's fate. Don't you feel guilty about that?
The courts will take care of things. Just chill.

He lied about money--there is no proof, as there has been no trial, that he lied about the killing.

Keep the two separate is all I'm saying, you guys appear incapable of doing so--hope you're not in the jury pool.

The two are separate...I don't see anyone here suggesting otherwise actually. But to totally ignore this as if it somehow never happened? Credibility will very much matter in his case when the only other person who knows what happened is dead.

To me it is all a wash. The laws need to be changed to state if you follow a person, you cannot claim self-defense if that person chooses to stand his or her ground. Our judicial system seems to favor always protecting the accused after they have inflicted pain on someone else. I will never get that. The whole point of having a laws is to protect the innocent. Not protect the guilty after they have harmed someone.

They are NOT seperate issues. His entire defence is based on HIS side of the story. (you know, because he killed the child.. no statements there.) His credibility is a big issue. So far he has shown NO credibility what so ever. He opens his mouth and lies just fall right out. He is a murderer trying to play the system. If your child had been murdered by this a$$ you would be screaming JUSTICE!.. not making excuses.

If you are responding to me, did you read all of my post? I said his credibility absolutely matters because the only other person who knows what happened is dead.

I was replying to Kimbo. I agree with everthing you have posted except for the fact that his credibility carries over too both issues. There is no seperating this as his version of the story is the only side being heard. He has every reason to lie, thus his credibility in ALL aspects of this case are relevant; one and the same.

Kimbo not trying to be funny, but did you actually read the article? The "proof" that he lied about the money is right up there in the phone transcripts. However, if you are still rocking windows 98 on your PC, you might not be able to open the links. Do you have a more recent OS on your computer? I'm just trying to help.