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Subscribe to RSSMore than 10,000 people have been injured – 321 of them fatally – in California over the past ten years as a result of high-speed police chases, according to data obtained by NBCLosAngeles.com.
The deaths and injuries have continued apace in the state even after a law was enacted to try to reduce the number of chases and make them less dangerous. In fact, the data show that individual chases have become more deadly since the law went into effect in 2006.
Last year alone, pursuits culminated in crashes that caused 927 injuries and 33 deaths, among them one police officer and eight people who were either passengers or bystanders, according to the data, which was provided to NBC4 by the California Highway Patrol.
In the most recent case, a grisly collision in Los Angeles on Saturday that killed two women and injured three other people at a taco truck in Boyle heights, driver Elba Jimenez, of Upland, will be charged with two counts of murder, felony drunk driving and failing to yield to law enforcement, said a top official at the California Highway Patrol.
View more videos at: http://nbclosangeles.com.
CHP officers said they initiated that chase after Jimenez, who allegedly was weaving in lanes, failed to pull over after they flashed their lights and blared their sirens on I-10 near downtown. They pursued her to Northbound I-5, where Jimenez allegedly exited at Cesar Chavez and plowed into a parking lot filled with people.
“It’s an absolutely tragic situation,” Asst. Commissioner Ramona Prieto told NBC4 on Monday. “My heart goes out to the families, the people who witnessed it, and the people who were injured. It’s a horrible, horrible situation.”
Read more stories from NBCLosAngeles.com
The CHP plans to investigate the incident, as it does all chases in which someone is injured or killed, she said.
“We have a standardized pursuit critique that carefully looks at every aspect of the pursuit,” Prieto said.
As concerns over high-speed chases have mounted over the years, the CHP has instituted a number of policies aimed at reducing their frequency and danger, Prieto said.
For example, she said, the police agency uses so-called spike strips – pieces of sharp, pointed equipment aimed at blowing out vehicle tires – which are dropped on the road in front of a fleeing car in an effort to disable it.
Graph showing fatalities resulting from police pursuits
The CHP also employs what it calls an "immobilization technique," also known as a "PIT maneuver," in which a squad car bumps a car whose driver is trying to flee in an effort to turn the car around and prevent him or her from driving away, Prieto said.
Officers undergo quarterly training about safety and appropriateness in pursuits, including spending time in a traffic simulator that mimics the experience of chasing a fleeing car.
Other police agencies have implemented stricter policies. The Los Angeles Police Department, for example, no longer engages in high-speed chases of drivers who are only suspected of traffic infractions or misdemeanors.
"They're not pursuing for infractions and things like that, because it became very dangerous," said LAPD Capt. Anne E. Young, who heads the Central Traffic Division.
But many public safety advocates – and families of those killed or injured as a result of high-speed pursuits – say the state and law enforcement agencies aren't doing enough.
“Every chase increases the risk to public and to the police officers,” said Candy Priano of Chico, whose daughter, Kristy, was killed after a police chase in 2002.
Graph showing police pursuits and collisions in California
Priano, who founded the watchdog group Voices Insisting on Pursuit Safety, said pursuit-related crashes kill an average of 30 bystanders every six weeks in the U.S.
The group is developing a legislative committee at the federal and state levels to call for changes in police training, is pushing for a law that would make reporting pursuit information by police agencies mandatory nationally and for stiffening penalties for those who flee police.
The CHP records, collected from the all police agencies in the state, show that the deadliest of the past ten years was 2009, when 42 people were killed in chase-related collisions in the state.
In fact, even though the total number of pursuits has gone down in the state since a law aimed at curbing them went into effect in 2006, the chases appear to actually have become more dangerous.
There was one death for every 228 chases in 2003, a year when California led the nation in police pursuits. The death toll in 2009 amounted to one for every 132 chases.
The casualties have sparked continuous soul-searching among law enforcement agencies, said Prieto of the California Highway Patrol.
“We talk about it frequently,” Prieto said. “Pursuits are a really important question for all law enforcement, because of the liability and the damage that can be caused. … What we do can really hurt or kill someone.”
But, she said, the agency ultimately believes that police agencies need to be able to pursue drivers who may have committed crimes or are driving erratically.
“Sometimes a bigger crime has been committed,” she said.
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Just collateral damage, folks......they won't change, they don't care....just cowboys being cowboys....nothing to see here.
We ain't letting nobody escape us.... cause we is the law and law sez we can chase them down, rope them up, and bring-em in. Yep, we sure show em who's boss, the Man, the authority. And we ain't taking no prison, either, dead or alive, cause we aim to please.
Whether you are fighting the Taliban or trying to arrest criminals, once you tell the "bad Guys" where you draw the line...the harder they try to cross the line...saying you won't engage in a pursuit only encourages criminals to run!
These are criminals trying to escape and will commit more crimes if they are not captured. What the article doesn't speak to as it can't, is how many people would have been killed or injured in future criminal acts. Blaming law enforcement is the wrong end of the equation; blame the criminals who commit these heinous acts.
When I'm watching a movie involving a chase scene, I am cringing internally. We're supposed to be experiencing the adrenaline of the good guys going after the bad guys or whatever. In reality, I'm focusing on all the innocent people being hit, injured or killed for the sake of letting the bad guy not get away.
Sorry, but your justification of the death's of innocents in order to apprehend the bad guy doesn't really wash. My mother is incidentally killed in a high speed persuit and what? I'm supposed to think it's a good thing because they got the bad guy in the end? Sorry your life was cut short, mom, but at least you died not knowing that a drunk driver who wouldn't normally hurt a fly was apprehended by the police.
No, I'm not for high speed persuits unless the guy is carrying a weapon of mass destruction. Anything less is saying that the collateral damage is secondary to catching the bad guy. One death for every 223 may not sound like much to you until it's someone in your family.
i wonder what kind of other statistics there are on lives saved compared to lives taken like when thet decide to be judge and jury and call for death of so many also like brandishing a knife no court in a foriegn country would call for death by bullet and happens here all the time
I'm agreeing with Drakkonis on this one. High speed police chases can be deadly, causing injury or death to many innocent people, and to what end?? To make a statement that the police can and will do anything in their power to apprehend the dangerous drivers who have expired registration tags or expired inspection stickers!! That they will do whatever is necessary to make their ticket/arrest quotas for the month!!
In this day and age, where people are tracked 24/7 by the authorities via cell phones, surveillance cameras, GPS devices....there should be no valid reason at all why people who flee when police flash their lights to pull them over should be pursued. Just go pick them up once these people feel they are in the clear!! No muss, no fuss, no dead innocents. It's all about the police making the statement that they are LAW and ORDER over the masses, to let the public know it's their boot that's on the people's throat. That collateral damage is expected and accepted as part of their job of rounding up dangerous drivers who dare to disregard the police's call for them to get a ticket.
Here's a thought.....why not mail them the ticket?
I just returned from a 2500 mile road trip in California. I was struck by the near police state that exists there, even down to the state police propaganda billboards, something George Orwell would relate to, telling people how safe they are because the police are there looking after them. Bull@!$%#. Californians are cattle, completely cowed by the police presence. I have never been anywhere where I've seen more police per mile driven, than in California. Being from Texas, where we commonly drive 5-10mph and the over the limit and the police give us that latitude, officially or not. I made my drive in this morning at 85mph in a 65 posted toll road, because there wasn't any traffic at 5:15 am. We here, unlike Californians, are apparently smart enough to adjust our speeds to conditions without having to have the nanny-police looking over our shoulder every mile we drive. I'm fully convinced its not about safety, but about gas conservation. California never shook off the boondogle of Jimmy Carter. Going through the San Juaquin Valley I drove miles and miled of completely flat and straight road, puttering along behind a line of cars doing 55. Ridiculous. Most Californians don't have an IQ greater than my waist size: look who they elect to Congress! There is a reason California is nearly bankrupt and Texas has one of the strongest economies in the nation.
There have been 2 traffic related deaths in my family, Neither one of them involved a police chase, However both involved another driver violating a minor traffic offense, One ran a red light and the other a stop sign. The overwhelming majority of traffic related deaths in this country are caused by drivers violating traffic laws and the police are not involved in any high speed pursuits, There has been an increase in drivers trying to outrun the police since high speed pursuit laws were passed, Drivers think that if they try to outrun the police that the police will have to break off the pursuit and they will get away. The High speed pursuit laws are not working as intended and it is time to review these laws and change them .
Spoken like a true die hard criminal! Of course you are absolutely correct, law enforcement should never chase a person fleeing from them, after all, criminals are basically honest people and will eventually turn themselves into the law and confess their crimes, right?
No, the more ground that law enforcement gives up the more ground criminals will take. Most of you who feel that the law should not chase criminals who flee from them are the same idiots that are the fist to complain when you are victims of crimes and in your mind it takes the cops too long to respond to "your" call for service. Now try to imagine their response time if they must do the speed limit and obey all traffic laws while responding to your little emergency!
Regardless of what happens criminals are not going to surrender to law enforcement and if we simply do not pursue them they will simply stay free to commit a never ending spree of crimes elsewhere and sooner of later their next victim will be YOU!
People seem to forget that law enforcement officers are human beings first and cops second. When an action that they are involved in results in serious injury or death to innocent people, the cops suffer emotionally, far more that the average person can imagine or understand, I know first hand as a retired law enforcement officer who served his community for over 26 years.
Remember that the last thing a cop wants to do is harm someone or take their life, however they do have a duty to "protect and serve," and sometimes the criminal forces them to do dangerous things to carry out this duty. While there are and will always be a few bad apples, most cops are honest, carring people with families too and it is the criminal who determines the level of force the cop uses, not the cop. I can understand that to the untrained eye it may sometimes look like the cop was "itching" to use his gun to shoot someone, but if you have ever been unfortunate enough to have to do this, you know it is the last thing you want to do! When a cop has to resort to using deadly force, it is the criminal who as forced them to do so and if the cop does not do his job; (a) They may not go home alive to their family; (b) the criminal will escape to harm more innocent people and certainly last and least; (c) The cop simply has not done their job and has failed to protect and serve. This same rule applies to pursuits.....Period.....
So by all means take away the cops right/duty to purse dangerous fleeing felons! I have little doubt this will make for a more safer environment and these dangerous criminals will eventually turn themselves in after they finish their killing spree and perhaps, just perhaps, you or your family will be one of their victims. Weapons of mass destruction? Are you kidding me? Do you realize something a simple as automobile can be a "weapon of mass destruction?" Do something this STUPID and we will see more criminals on our streets because after all, they simply have to exceed the posted speed limit and they stand a good chance of getting away with their crimes without fear of being caught.
What next, take away the guns from our law enforcement officers? After all, no guns means they can't shoot anyone! Imagine your local police telling you; sorry but the criminal who just raped your wife/daughter got away because they exceeded the posted speed limit and we could not capture them or get close enough to even get a vehicle description of license plate number. I am sure this will make us all feel a lot safer knowing that at least the police will no longer be exceeding the posted speed limit and putting a relatively few innocent people in harms way!
Drakkonis - So that drunk driver who runs from the police, and the call off the chase goes down the road and latter runs over your mother killing her.....now whos fault is it?
The other side of the coin is what happens if you let someone go to avoid a accident and they are drunk or under the influence of drugs? then you have released someone who might go another mile or two and kill someone else, its a tough call, as a side note it would be interesting to know how many of these fatalities were caused by illegal aliens, many mexicans have a cultural background of drinking in excess and driving, I have a co worker whos brother , sisterinlaw and three kids were killed when four too drunk to crawl mexicans slammed into them head on in Fort Worth , Texas this happens way too much down here people don't know when to stop drinking, and they are never to drunk to get behind the wheel, in my opinion manslaughter 1 should be the death penalty
If you start letting people run from the police and the police just stop pursuing, then more people will run from the police. Make the penalty more sever for running from police and more people will stop causing high speed pursuits. Many run because of another crime they committed and dont want to get caught...not just cause they didnt stop at a stop sign... Get with it America!
You guys are over dramatic. How about they just let off the chase when they are in 5pm traffic and the risk is at it's highest. If someone doesn't use their turn signal, and they decide to flee, let it go. I'm very fustrated at us americans. So dumb sometimes. We can't get a bit more creative? We still have to pursue criminals in a car chase like the gangters of the 20's? Seriously? We are so technologically advanced, lol. You're telling me that we can't come up with something that can spit out a sticky tracking device to stick to a fleeing vehicle? Then all you have to do is track it until it stops at a residence or whatever and move in for the take down. I would think that for public safety it would be well worth the effort to come up with alternatives to mowing down innocents to catch one moron law breaker.
And that IS tragic, and your loss is important, however, it is the job of the police to pursue. If they didn't chase down people fleeing them, then they would get blame for letting them get away. It is the people FLEEING the law that are responsible. This is not to say that the reasons for being involved in a high speed chase should be trivial, but if a cop is trying to stop someone and that someone decides that driving away at a high speed is how they want to respond, then the officer is pretty much duty bound to give chase. I am sure that YOU don't mean, just let anyone go/get away if they get in a car and drive fast. It is the person RUNNING's fault that people die and are injured in high speed chases - or ANY pursuit
Ernie, thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!
This would be a great time to use a drone ? When the pursuit starts and if theirs time law enforcement could call it in, once the drone gets a B-line on the vehicle the drone could take over..Communication is the key they could even use an unmarked when possible. The min thing is to tone down the situation so innocent people aren't involved once the drone makes contact tracking it wont be difficult.
Im sure they've thought of this already its just a matter of time..
Police still do "WHAT" they want, "WHEN" they want, and too "WHOM" they want. Until that changes, get use to more chases and deaths.!!! The fact remains, cops................................don't................................care..!
Until the Public says ...NO MORE... this problem will continue ... ELMO 1940954 is spot on
OK, your going to blame a cop because a drunk woman decides to plow through people in a parking lot. A lot of logic there. If the lady would have been having a stroke or seizure instead of being drunk and the officer backed off, that officer would now hear the whiners saying he should be off the force and he doesn't care, and should have known exactly what was going on inside the car.
More alcohol related murders.. I bet some of the same people that are against marijuana being legalized are drinking their martini while they read this crap and cant put 1 and 1 toghether because alcohol kills brain cells unlike marijuana. The reason why it is illegal is because 1. you can grow your own and corporations dont like that. 2. You will see through the government/Media's Bull@!$%# if you smoke it. 3. You feel way better than alcohol with no ill effects or hangovers, OD's, murders, domestic violence, suicides, etc.
I've given two suggestions, numerous times to cops, but hey, they think they are "Gods with Badges," and won't listen to anything.
First suggestion, follow the person, without lights/sirens giving updates to location so other cop cars can get ahead and set up a road block/spikes, 2nd suggestion, license plates will tell you where they live, either follow them home, or let ONE car sit at the address until they get there, well, that's better than 20 cars chasing the person. Neither suggestion overpowers the adrenalin rush of a chase, especially the end, when the cops get to drag someone out, "through the car window," slam them to the ground, about 20 cops kneels on the back of their neck, while 20 more beat the piss out of you, while 10 others handcuff you.
They don't' tell you in the article the vast majority of these "civilian deaths" were caused by chases for minor traffic infractions.
I tried running from a cop once about 20yrs ago. I was stopped after turning down a culdasac and i had 45 cal. weapon pointing at me. That was all it took for me i never tried that again. You are better off just pulling over and talking to the police. If you give them respect and are truthful with them, then most of the time they will cut you some slack.
High pursuits don't kill. PEOPLE in high pursuits kill.
Elmo: In CALIFORNIA:
Speaking of your statement above, check out this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xv6Mzcs8Vuw
I guess the drones will take care of these incidents. huh? Aim and fire.
I can't believe this is even a topic... So, I guess we just ask nicely and everyone just pulls over when told huh?!?
Here's a thought, make a law, that if the person runs from the police, seize everything they own, House, Car, EVERYTHING. If they kill anyone during this "pursuit" everything you sold will go to the victims.
For example, Drunk man starts a high speed chase, drunk man kills 1 person while being pursued. Drunk man got caught, his house taken from him, his wife/kids forced to live on the street, bank accounts frozen, all assets frozen and seized. Once everything is sold and turned into cash, give it to the victims family.
If there are no victims, then that's money for the state... Make it law. Let's try it in California, since it seems to have the highest amount of police chases to date...
I'm not sure what the current penalty is for running from the police, but I don't think it's stiff enough to curb the behavior... just sayin...
Stop pursuits and take the entertainment for the cops...no way, the ACLU would not stand for it. The cops must have entertainment, they get so bored driving around all day.
Hey Ernie, that had to be the longest bunch of crap ive seen on these boards.
I find it absolutely hilarious that you would expend that kind of energy typing something that 90% of the people wont even bother to read. I find it even more funny that you actually think that what you wrote will actually make a difference to anyone.
Dude you could have typed an entire book and I would still feel that the loss of innocent lives are not worth catching a thug.
So punish whole families for individual crimes? Brilliant, lol.
It isn't a matter of "IF", it's a matter of "WHEN". Drones are coming to a sky near you. An when they show up above my place, you're gonna go "BLIND". I don't bother anybody so when they fly a drone over my place, watch my "1WATT GREEN LASER". Your camera "WILL" be disabled for ever.
“Sometimes a bigger crime has been committed,” she said.
Did anyone else catch this? So, sometimes, the crime that they are chasing for is bigger then.....oh let's say the murder of innocent civilians eating taco's that was caused by a chase? Irony?
They really need to develop the EMP technology so they can shut the car down before the chase ever begins.
Some of you are being way to over dramatic. No one here is saying that a drunk person who plows down people in a parking lot is a cops fault. Why? Because they are not being chased.
We're talking about the time frame that encompasses the actual chase - not before. Not the time where the drunk person committed the crime that caught the cops attention - that doesn't count. It's the time frame in which the chase actually occurs. Like when the cops pursue even though there are cars in every lane and an intersection coming up. Or it's a downtown street and there are people on the sidewalks. Chasing the criminal in those situations only encourages them to run and drive more erratically.
Some of you think not chasing them encourages more people to run. How is that? The cops back off, the person runs a bit longer and that's it. They don't keep running and driving like a mad man. What honestly gets me is that police departments and cities would rather spend their money on cop cars with 15 cameras on them and drive through parking lots running license plates. Or install cameras on every street corner. When instead they could spend money on some tracking device that tags the criminals car, or a system that allows the police department to use all the currently useless traffic cameras to track the criminal in real time using only the traffic cameras. It could easily be done - the software is out there already.
I'm 26 and I can think of this stuff. Why can't this "older and wiser" generation seem to get their bleeding heart, pacifist, coward heads out of the deepest crack in the a** and actually do something constructive and innovative with their lives.
I have to disagree with the earlier statement that cops are human first cops second. Knowing many officers they are officers then humans. They feel that no matter they are above the law because they have a uniform and a badge that proves it. They can speed down the road at any given time and show their brotherhood they are one of them if pulled over they can leave. Was at a party and the host was a police officer that took everybodies license plate number and called them in, just incase anyone was pulled over they would escort them home. Now tell me about how they are human, could you do any of the above and get away with it?
Dramatic is an understatement..
This is what happens when you hire the young and the dumb trigger happy morons to protect the citizens in a state that has no common sense whatsoever.
I can't stand the LAPD in CA. IMO, all the police i CA are corrupt to the core, and yes, some people will say there are some good cops. BS! They all follow the police Code of Blue rule to protect one another even if the officers are guilty.
I left LA for many reasons, and the lack of the CA police protection is just one of them. I wouldn't call the police for help because they do more harm than good in the State of CA.
It's time to weed out the crap in the LAPD and send these criminal officers to the curb with their pink slips.
These people were not injured because of a Police Pursuit. They were injured and killed because they BROKE THE LAW and was SPEEDING TO AVOID ARREST. Place the blame on the LAW BREAKERS, not the ones we hire to PROTECT & SERVE.
Well. Duh and duh. Criminals are called criminals because they have no concern for the wellbeing of others. Therefore, in many of these chases, these law breakers and criminals have figured out that all they need to do is aim their car at a certain point - and everything can be blamed upon the police.
we need to use EMP's and/or GPS devices and smarter law enforcement ... A police chase that is irresponsible and ends up killing innocent people should not only be the crime of the perpetrator but a crime of the officers involved.... Negligent homicide .. A chase takes more than one person.. I have seen police using spike strips and pit maneuvers to disable a vehicle causing the vehicle to spin out of control and crash into innocent people however the report due to our current (special interest agenda driven)legal system reports the incident as murder especially when the driver is intoxicated.. This disguises the real cause of the death and instead shows it as being the soul actions of the perpetrator. This skews the statistics and does not help us make our streets and highways any safer.
Can someone state why these high-speed chase accidents were not a problem before about 20 years ago? Can they state why ambulance and fire truck responses do not cause an inordinate amount of fatal accidents?
@Fgh-1038628
Ambulance and fire truck responses are not high speed and do not involve reckless and dangerous driving nor do they involve attempting to cause the loss of control of a vehicle on the public roadway.
Truett Colins
Drunk drivers kill x amount of people each year withouth the police chasing them. It's a fact of life. It wouldn't have to be a fact of life if people were more responsible, but that's human nature for you.
The question is, is it worth the additional deaths to innocents generated by police chases? How is it justifiable for a cop to kill an innocent bystander in the persuit of a fleeing suspect? Or did you think only the fleeing individual was killing them? It doesn't even have to be a chase. The cop could just be responding. I know of at least two cases in my own city where cop cars killed innocent civilians on the way to the scene of whatever they were responding to. And the prevailing attitude is that it's just the cost of doing business. What I am against is that no price is too high in stopping the bad guy. A high speed persuit for expired tags or a drunk driver who's not speeding is not worth the risk. I could be wrong but it seems axiomatic that chasing a drunk driver increases the odds of someone getting killed, not reduce it.
Did you really just use the word smart and Texas in the same post?? Unbelievable where the current governor is to dumb to make it through the debates and the ex-governor, er umm what's his name, oh yeah Bush, well lets just say he's about a brisket short of a barbeque, yee-haw. And dude just so you know for your future reference, both I-5 and Hwy. 99 through the San Juaquin Valley are both posted at 70/75 depending on your location. No wonder it took you so long to make that trip!! Also you better get to fillin' up that belly and bustin' out that waist size because I would beg to differ on the I.Q. vs waist size comparison, I think you lose that one by a landslide or bellyslide. Lets see, I believe Cali is #9 and Texass is #25 for median income so that blows the income and economy bragging rights out of the water. One last thing before I go to give you something else to digest: the reason the state of California is hurting right now is the support we're sending to all the midwest red states that take more from the federal government than they send in every year. Just a few things to think about, oh and have a nice day and ya'll come back now, ya' hear!! JUST SAYIN' DUDE!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States
http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/23/news/economy/texas_perry_budget_stimulus/index.htm
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/08/09/1005060/-Red-states-suck-up-the-most-federal-dollars
I know the most ardent patriots here won't want to hear this, but much of Western European law enforcement won't chase cars, yet they still get their targets. How? Through the magical technology called 'radio'. As a cop in Holland told me once: no car can outrun radio waves. And it is far easier - and less dangerous - to stop a vehicle coming toward you than running away from you. Car runs, cop uses radio, other cops set a perimeter 'net' and begin to tighten, suspect apprehended. Teamwork and communication. Nobody (except perhaps the target) puts innocent lives in danger. Hollywood can still create car chases for public amusement.
Food for thought.
Would be nice if we had as many officers per square mile as they have in those nations.
im not picking on u bather, i just wasnt sure how comment to this discussion. law enforcement already have chase protocols which i feel r more than adequate. what they dont have is the ability to read minds. if they had in this case got her tag # and went to her home to arrest her-they will b so called witnesses to her wonderful character who will bitch and moan because the cops invaded her home. how was the cops to know this stupid woman was going to go off into that parking lot. if we do go to what has been called here "a police state", who fault is it? it is the civilians who CHOOSE to act without any responsible thought to their actions fault!! not law enforcement faults. u may have the right to drink urself into liver failure, or smoke dope into oblivion, but LAWBREAKERS DO NOT HAVE the right to take me and mine down with them! its not that hard to behave urself and use a little common sense, but listening to self entitled paranoid idiots makes me yearn for a police state in order to feel safe minding my own business. as for the liberals who started this crap, take some of these ppl home with u, move them in next door to ur family and deal with it-dont call the cops to solve ur problems. in this particular case, i hate it that these ppl were killed for someone else's selfish barbaric behavior, but i dont see where law enforcement had any satisfactory reason to let her go on with her vehicle tirade.
Police should have grappling guns and choppers should be able to blow those cars off the road with 50 cal. mounted guns. Once the bad guys see the chopper, they'll hit the brakes and GTFO.
If the cops can't control a situation with 4 wheels planted firmly on the ground what makes you think they can control the situation from the air?
what an idiot
Why have laws at all then. If some one cuts you off just blow him or her away .This is what you get with no laws. Let the Police do there job.
LOL! Spoken like a true american gun nut. 50 cal. mounted guns don't kill. PEOPLE with 50 cal. mounted guns kill.
While all this cowboy stuff sounds exciting and all, I'm a cop, you can't make cops responsible for what bad guys do. We got into a chase one night over a traffic violation in Texas. After picking the safest place, we shot out the tires and put an end to the chase. Inside the vehicle was a young five year old girl kidnapped from her home. The child molesting pervert made an illegal turn. Tell the parents of this child, we should have backed off and let him go. Perhaps a better solution than blaming the police for pursuits is to blame the bad guys. Stiffer penalties on them will just make them run faster thinking they can get away. I am certainly sorry for the loss of an innocent victims of these people, but with modern technology which allows companies to locate your car, unlock it, and start it from God knows where, we should certainly be able to come up with something for law enforcement to electronically shut cars down. In Texas we use spike strips, shoot out tires, PIT them, ram them or what ever we can do to stop them as quick as possible. Give law enforcement the right to act quickly and effectively instead of chasing these guys for hours endangering others. The faster you knock them down, the safer the pursuit.
you never know who else may be in the vehicle .. like a little kid or infant in the back seat crying and laying on the floor board.. Or someone kidnapped and locked in the trunk
@Carnley
your absolutely correct about having the right tools and I'm glad your not another one of the bad ones i have had the displeasure of dealing with in the past. I will work on some more ideas for us but our academies and others need to step up and train the officers better and that training needs to stick. The public should never be endangered by irresponsible actions of negligent officers. Protecting the public also includes protecting them from persons with a badge. A badge does not distinguish the difference between a bad guy and a good guy. It is the person behind the badge and their actions that defines them... Also just wanted to note that those who support/enforce the "blue wall" are not helping anyone and doing a disservice to this country and the community they serve.
isnt it funny how we always tell ourselves how much the rest of the world envies us?
No
So what country are you planning to move to and are you going to sneak across their border illegally like they do here in the US or do you have lots of money to buy your way into that other country.
Being an ex Brit who has traveled the world since 1966, I have to tell you Bigpicture that the peoples of the world do envy us. Yes even those in the middle east who proclaim "death to America" are just envious of our life style and standard of living and want what we have, the mullah's have whipped this desire up into a jealous hatred.
Believe me we have SO much freedom in the US even compared to the UK where you are, for example, not entitled to a trial by jury, nor do you have the right to remain silent, or the right of self defense. No Bigpicture we have so much and are so envied by so many.
As an afterthought, maybe most Americans have not traveled outside the country, have never experienced life (and potential death) overseas and get their news from a single political news source, and simply believe the BS of both Left (MSNBC) & right (Fox) news channels.
Phil you have "Hit the nail on the head!" Most people that complain about the problems in America have never left her soil. Those that have, may have gone to Tahiti or the Bahamas, where you have no problems, as long as you cause no problems. But we have seen on TV news, instances in other Countries where Americans have broken the law and the pleas to have them returned to the U.S., instead of being beaten with a cane or imprisoned for life or executed. But, the stories that don't make the news are the ones that curdle the blood. We have it so good here, but unless one leaves the safety of their homes, they will never know. I have been outside of America, as I served in the Marine Corps. I have protected our freedoms and have a real sense of what they are.
This article is just amazing how it lacks full disclosure of the meat of the story. There are so many felony arrests that come from pulling someone over for a broken light, illegal turn or unsafe driving. Felons that have warrants for their return to prison are usually caught by these "dumb things". When they see a police car, they panic and do really dumb things, like try to run. The officer was just going to give them a warning that their taillight was out, but they don't always know they are chasing a wanted felon, until the chase is over. Some of the casualties come from people that forget the first thing you learn when you get your Driver's license. When an Emergency Vehicle (Fire truck, Ambulance, Police) has lights and sirens active, you MUST pull over to the right and STOP! I see drivers every single day, they may slow down, a little, but hey they Fire truck can always go around. Nobody wants to pull over and get into a Safe position so the Emergency vehicle can get where it is going. What an inconvenience that is, I might lose another 2 minutes in my travel time if I pull over and Stop. The movies don't help, because they illustrate that it's ok to just keep traveling along side the police car that is in high-speed pursuit, but then they wonder why people get hurt and killed. Now, for the fleeing car that is in a neighborhood environment, that is just Death waiting to happen. Stop signs and Red lights mean nothing to a felon on the run. The technology is coming where the Police car will be able to sign-in to the fleeing vehicles onboard computer chip and disable the car without the need for a pursuit, but until that time, we have to know that the Police are carefully considering each situation before they engage in a high-speed chase that has potentially deadly outcomes. Much like when they chase a felon on foot into a building, they are always putting themselves in harms-way and they know that others may become victims of the felon. The risk is usually higher for the Police to just walk away, though. That only emboldens the criminals, as they get a rush of control and feel that if they resist they go free, that is the WRONG message to send to criminals. If you go 85 in a posted 65 mph road, you are a felon. That is felony speeding (20 over the posted speed) you will go to jail and should go to jail! The conditions can be light traffic and clear flat roads, but the engineers considered all that when they posted the speed, which is why the signs don't say 'Suggested Speed Limit' on them.
Thank a cop, they are the Soldiers of the City and State. They put themselves in danger every time they put on the uniform.
Voting, I couldn't have said it better.
Tim McVeigh was stopped for a minor traffic infraction, and curiously did not try to flee. Go figure.
With many cheap HD cameras available, we should be able to equip every police car with a Dashboard carmera, a roof camera, and every where else where it makes sense on the vehicle, that they should be able to take a snap shot of the license plate and get the registered info. We may need to enforce changes to the size of license plates, so the numbers will be bigger, easier to read from a distance than what it is now.
In my opinion, the public should not be put at risk over petty crimes. Unless its a murderer escaping, I say let them go and catch them later when they can be caught safely. Police need to get over the fact someone got away, especially some petty traffic offense.
So they should just allow drunk drivers to run freely on the road if they start to run? Drunk driving is just a murder that hasn't happened yet.
Freedom4Everyone, you make sense. The police don't want to hear from people like you.
If they can't catch him when he's drunk they will certainly never catch him when he's sober! I'm totally against the cops in high speed pursuit, they are just as dangerous as the criminals when it comes to a high speed chase. The numbers don't lie....????
Freedom, I agree with you about the public should not be put at risk over petty crimes but how many times have people ran from the cops when they are only going to be stopped for speeding or something minor like that? The average Joe on the street won't run because he has no reason to do so. A typical chase starts because the bad guy decides he isn't going to stop but instead he runs because (insert whatever reason here). By failing to stop for the officer when he hit his lights, they just told the cop that they have something to hide from them. Now according to you, the cops should just let them go and hope to catch them later. That's IF they know who was driving the get-a-way car.
Yes its sad that innocent people get hurt or killed while the police are doing these pursuits but if the idiots they have to chase would just stop when the cops first hit their lights, then it would all end well. Don't blame the cops for these idiots doing the WRONG thing by running and cause all the mayhem they cause while trying to escape a ticket for no turn signal or busted tail light (those are petty traffic offenses by the way). More times then not, they run because of other illegal activities, such as drug or weapon possession, warrants, or even leaving the scene of a crime. The fact of the matter is that its the criminals who are at blame here, not the cops who are just trying to do job.
Now, let's say the cops let some idiot run and not chase him because of "public safety concerns" and that same idiot turns out to be leaving the house of his ex-girlfriend who he has just killed and is on his way to someone else's house to kill them (and yes I am being over dramatic here but bare with me). We later learn the cops could have pursued this person and caught him before he can complete the second murder, who is going to get the blame? The cops of course.
Like I said before the average Joe on the street won't run just for the hell of it and if they do and in the process end up killing or hurting someone else, you hammer them with every law you can.
Or to bring it down to a more likely senerio - a drunk driver runs from the cops and the let him go....then 20 mins later he runs over one of your family members, who is going to get the blame? Again the cops who will most likely be sued for not getting the drunk driver off the streets before he killed someone.
DarkShadow, A high speed chase is bad enough. But, chasing a drunk or possible medical issue? I really don't think I want them going any faster.
Duh. As if a drunk, or someone with some kinds of medical issues like mental health problems care about how fast they should drive.
Quick question though - until you pull the person over and find out the driver's name and run them through the system, how do you know if they are a murder (or whatnot)? Or do we expect LEOs to read minds also?
She will never see a court room.
First she will say "who will care for the childreeeeeeen. I only come to work very hard and care for the childreeeen." Then it will be I was voting for Obama. Case closed not her fault. Let her out so she can vote. She is just here to work very hard.
Racist much? Stupid much? You're an f'n moron.
Racist...why...please explain, Acording to all reports in the media George Zimmerman is white because hispanics are white, So please explain how if hispanics are white how it can be racism.
LostInThePinBarrens, maybe Hoodie considers it racism because a stereotype aimed at hispanics is a stereotype aimed at whites? See what I did thar?
Hoodie,
Sigh... your overreaction to things is laughable!
I'll start out by saying that I am suspicious of ANY story put out by NBC/MSNBC. I am suspicious of its ACCURACY most of all. Secondly, I am suspicious of its MOTIVE. My gut says they are far more interested in bringing dishonor to the LAPD than they are about saving lives. If they were so interested in saving lives, why do they broadcast these chases? Rating points, which translates to money. Everything's about money and power with liberals. So out of one side of their mouths, they weep for those injured and killed in chases. Out of the other side of their mouths, they drool with excitement when they receive word there is a chase that they can broadcast that will increase viewership and revenues. They will scramble their helicopter(s) so fast it would make your head spin. The liberal media lost all my respect years ago. I believe they lie and exaggerate any chance they get, and they'll never miss an opportunity to disrespect and dishonor the police. Accuracy and motive. You can be certain this article is inaccurate and the motive unclean.
My heart goes out to all those injured, and to the families and friends of all those killed in police chases. Thank you for bringing an important subject to light, NBC. But how about next time you defer to a news source that does not have an ulterior motive for doing so. Do us the biggest favor possible MS, and get out of the news business and stick to monopolizing the computer software industry.
NBC/MSNBC has become the National Enquirer of television news, and a sad statement that the money monopolized by MS is used in this fashion, to try and manipulate the people/sheeple with lies and deceit.
Why would you pretend to care by writing this article to the same people you lie to on a daily basis? Nikkofly is completely right in his assumptions.
They broadcast the chases so people know where to get out of the way of the cowboys.
Nice points Nikkofly.
The practice of taking another article, "condensing" it and posting with whatever spin is way out of control. I have hit a wall here on how I would respond.
First off, as far as dishonoring the LAPD, it was CHP that intiated the chase. The LAPD has enough demons without being blamed for something they did not do.
The pursuit question has no viable answer. At what point does the public safety supercede the concerns of apprehending a suspect that has already disregarded public safety, and or already caused damages ?
There is no answer.
Try to get the bad guy best and safely as you can, If it goes bad make sure to charge murder with the rest.
So how do you account for Romney and all of his billionaire friends; rich powerful people like Rupert Murdoch, Bill O'Really, Rush Limpdick, the Cock brothers, etc., etc,? They're all about money and power, so I guess you think they're liberals, huh?
Oh, and we've never seen a Fox station's helicopter following a police chase, broadcasting it live, never!
If you're so "suspicious of ANY story put out by NBC/MSNBC," why are you wasting your time reading them?
You mean the conservative media doesn't? Fox, et. al. are the paragon of calmness and honesty? That's pathetic.
Do you truly believe that any news organization is part of a conspiracy to dishonor the police? Also sad and pathetic.
By the way, there is no such thing as "the liberal media," there is only "corporate media," and that includes Fox. I know, because I'm slightly left of center politically and I've been looking for years for some "liberal" news source...there aren't any.
Ummm, if you're suspicious of any story put out by MSNBC/NBC, why are you commenting on a story on one of their sites?
Nikkofly,
Really? You sound psychotic man. Only a stupid republican would come up with that "assessment" from this article. Trust me, there is no liberal media. Not enough anyway. We are the party of bad ideas and no balls. There is no force on earth as twisted and manipulative as the conservative media though. You are so far from any facts in your comment. It's embarassing. Don't think because you're only going to hurt yourself. I'm sorry, I love my american brothers and sisters, all of them, but sometimes you have to give them a little pinch in the neck to see if there is still a pulse. Don't want too many conservative zombies around. Liberal ones too of course. But, repugs are the worst. Try being an open minded, proactive intelligent american voter. Not a blind repug stuck in the Fox News bubble. You might learn something.
How else are they going to supply the "reality" shows with content? Way to many cop shows on tv these days...seems like that's all they can think about.
they should not be allowed on the air, since they started there have been lots of innocent lives taken like the 6 yr old girl shot in the neck and killed, when they had the wrong house and the grandmother tried to protect the little 6 yr old girl who was murdered in Detroit while a show was being taped and the ones bored have to look for excitement
I once knew a cop who told me that the highlight of his career, and the most fun he ever had on the job, was being the lead car in an 18 mile high speed pursuit. He was really p-o'd when a small town cop just put his cruiser sideways across the road as road block and abruptly ended the chase; smart, simple, safe and cheap.
I also once lived in a small town with only 2 cruisers, when a 15 mile chase involving more than 25 cruisers from a half dozen or so agencies rolled into town. The locals had been monitoring the radio traffic, thought there might be a possibility the bad guys would exit the Interstate and head their way.
Solution? Park the cruiser in the middle of the road, get out and fire one round from a 12 guage aimed at the baddies windshield. Result: Instant end of pursuit. Bonus: The idiots plowed into the cruiser totaling it, thereby ridding the town of a POS Olds diesel, purchased to save fuel costs. Score: One escaped murderer dead, two other escaped cons seriously injured (it was a survivable wreck but the cons weren't wearing their seat-belts!) and returned to the can with new life sentences vs. one cop with a bruised shoulder from hitting the 4 foot diameter oak tree he dove behind. Oh, and a lot of embarrassed and humiliated State Troopers and other cops. Again: smart, simple, safe and cheap.
I've watched 100's of videos of chases and they are rarely necessary or justified, especially on urban/suburban streets.
50 cal. MGs!!?? Wow, there certainly are a lot of idiots out there in the netosphere. Talk about collateral damage. Like thats going to somehow be less risky or safer? Just what we need, cops with heavy machine guns. You're probably the same people that are freaked out about the notion of drones flying over your house. Just imagine if those drones were helos w/50 cals. Like I said: Idiots.
If it's not bad enough that the police engage in these reckless automobile chases and cause these unnecessary accidents, they want to charge the drivers they're chasing with murder when someone gets killed. It's the police who should be charged with murder for their wanton disregard of the lives of innocent citizens.
I am a tad confused. A driver who does not pull over when requested by law enforcement, speeds away causing a "high speed pursuit" is not at fault when it goes wrong.
What, just let everybody that can hit the long pedal on the right get away ?
The point is the drivers in these "high speed pursits" are the problem. If they had not done something wrong to begin with, gee, they would not be pursued.
To pass the blame to law enforcment for casualties makes no sense to me.
"The point is the drivers in these "high speed pursits" are the problem " You are more than a tad confused! The point is "More than 10,000 people have been injured – 321 of them fatally" !!
Eddie, you strike me as one who says its the cops fault the bank robber, who was holding hostages, shoots and kills one just to show them he means business. Had the cops, just let him go with a couple of hostages and held the door open for him, then he wouldn't had to have killed anyone. YOU MORON!
Give Eddie a break, after all he's just a kid.
Yes and they were killed or injured because some driver made the conscious decision to flee from the police, There is no confusion about this , Those people who fled are directly responsible for the chain of events that followed that decision and trying to place the blame on anyone else specifically the police is wrong, There are many more accidents that are caused by people who commit traffic violations when they are not being chased by the police , Personally I feel if someone tries to flee the police then the police are not only justified but are morally required to follow them and apprehend them.
I agree when it regards serious offenses. The police will always be Monday morning quarter-backed by the media and the public. When they do pursue and someone gets injured people ask, "Why were they chasing them? Look, someone got hurt." But when they don't it's,"Why didnt they chase him he came home and killed so and so or went and robbed a store after and shot someone?"
What the article fails to tell us is how many of the 321 fatalaties were the criminals that were fleeing and how many were actually innocent bystanders? And I agree it is the a--h--- in the vehicle that should be held responsible for any injuries or deaths caused by the pursuit. if they stopped, there would not be one in the first place. Another half-assed written article by MSNBC!
Wow. I just read all the comments and was struck by how much ignorance is displayed by many people. How many of you have actually read a police pursuit policy. How many of you have actually read the article carefully? How many of you have actually sat through pursuit training. Many great ideas.....get the license plate. Brilliant. Why didn't the police think of that? Wouldn't do much good if the car was stolen. Use a drone. We would just have several drones flying constantly over every city, just in case there was a pursuit? Elmo, you clearly have a fear of your government and your police....maybe prior problems with them?
Freedom says:
"In my opinion, the public should not be put at risk over petty crimes. Unless its a murderer escaping, I say let them go and catch them later when they can be caught safely. Police need to get over the fact someone got away, especially some petty traffic offense."
Freedom, you are free to read the article again:
"Other police agencies have implemented stricter policies. The Los Angeles Police Department, for example, no longer engages in high-speed chases of drivers who are only suspected of traffic infractions or misdemeanors."
I agree that police need to continue with training, and education, about the cost of police chases, and the dangers presented by that situation, including the implementation of the best available technology. But we must not forget that the CRIMINAL is the one who is at fault here. I think the penalty for failing to stop should be dramatic, just because it presents such danger to the public. But I also want them caught and punished so they are not free to commit the next crime.
Sorry we can't give eddie a break...he's just too stupid.
Dear God,
Sorry it didn't work out.
best regards,
Satan
Dear Satan, Is it still hot down there?
Seems it is working out better for God than for you
Signed
Someone who believes
226 Chips officers were killed in the line of duty (keeping our highways safe?) last year. Maybe that stat should be part of the story - I think we pick the wrong side to support sometime
Back in 85 when I was in college we fiqured out a way to stop all of this bull sh$t and gave it to our proffesor. His remark was " this is great but the cops and courts will never go for it because it would take away their money and glamor!!" Very very simple but!!!!!! no one wants to hear it. Computors in cars shut off their ignition . car stops very quickly. Every licence plate issude has remote acces to computor very easy .
I think I was able to decipher your comment...
Nobody wants more "Big Brother"...
Many newer GM cars have Onstar and the engine can be shut down, The problem is many time the license plates are stolen from one car and put on another and then the police have no way to determine the VIN of the car without actually stopping it.
While your idea has merit in theory actual application has many problems, Further there are still millions of vehicles on the roadways that do not have complicated computerized ignition systems and therefore they can not be controlled by your method, Your method would also require some type of wiring harness to connect the license plate to the ignition system which is something the auto industries might feel they have to charge more for, Further many people would simply disconnect or disarm the system in their cars.
COLLEGE!!!!???? Don't you have to finish elementary school before you can go to college?
We thought this up in 85. since then cellurphones came along and guess what every phone now has a locater in them .did you know that. the same can be done very simply to any car . hows them cookies.
I have an old car and no cell phone, How are you going to stop me
hank
my cheap a** walmart special net10 don't. even if it did what good would it do as they have no idea who owns it.
Here's a hint you whining, brain-washed American idiots: Don't run from the cops.
I would support cops more if they didn't spend so much time hiding to trap drivers for inconsequential manoeuvres that didn't threaten anybody or anything - just broke one of the million trivial road laws. Just department budget bandits. If they need more money for their parties, ask the city or state, not prey on the poor bloody motorists all the time.
You mean like stop signs, Red lights, Passing a stopped school bus, Speeding in a school zone traveling at an excessive rate of speed, careless driving, reckless driving, drunk driving, fleeing the scene of an accident, fleeing a crime scene...you mean all of those trivial laws
Not sure about the rest of the country but in NJ the fines for motor vehicle violations go to the state regardless of who issued the summons, The only thing the town gets is court costs and if you think court costs cover the cost of hiring a judge,a prosecutor , court clerk and court staff plus maintaing a court room you are sadly mistaken
Solution: put military snipers in helo's to shoot the drivers. Done and done.
Well said Nam, I bet it would only a few times of someone getting a 50cal round through the drivers windshield before everyone else got the hint.
pfft.
I think its kind of funny that the blame is laid on the police, instead of the peeps not stopping and causing the chase. Just remember, those "cowboys" might be trying to help you out someday and when they tell you they can't go after them, remember why.
People are sick of the abuse of power/corruption with LE... Look at Tulsa, Oklahoma, or Oklahoma in general.
It usually winds up that those who are so sick of "abuse of power/corruption with LE" are the ones who got caught breaking the laws and are mad that they got caught.
For every chase I've ever witnessed on TV, there's never been much doubt as to the guilt of the person doing the eluding. After all, they're running from the police right there on TV. Punishment for such a crime should be administered immediately and in the following form:
If that doesn't provide deterrence for such activity, then it will at least make for a more viewer friendly end to such chases (the person simply giving up and lying down on the road is so anti-climatic)
Chases are exhilarating and fun. When else does a cop get the thrill of high speed driving weaving in and out of traffic. It like hitting someone with a billy club -- macho!!!
Bashing cops on blogs is so much fun, When else doe someone who has had run-ins with the police because they have broken the law get the thrill of saying stupid things while hiding behind an anonymous name...Not really Macho!!!!
lol. police on chases should never be at fault. dont be a retard retards...
This article paints the picture in the headlines like somehow it is the police who are at fault.
Then it goes on to tell the story of how people were hurt after policed chased this crazy woman who then crashed into the parking lot with people.
It was no ones fault but the crazy lady. Not the police, and not the actions of the police, because it was all the crazy ladies fault. They were doing their job.
So what is the point of the story. More liberal bleeding heart Democrat garbage about police abuse?
I agree. If they didn't, every crook, drug dealer, and killer would know that they would not be pursued.
Would this stop innocent people from getting hurt. I'm betting it would get worse.
Nothing to stop them from driving like a crazy person, drugged up, drunk, or road rage. So trying to make the cops in this article look bad just shows how ignorant people can be.
I wonder if this article was a sneaky "after article" because of the R.K. death?
I had a choice, either drive NASCAR or become a CHP Officer. Where else can a guy drive with total abandon, get to carry a gun, and get my Car-Cam Videos on the evening news. Take that Junior.
Highly unlikely that you were qualified for either.
cops criminals which moron do you want to crash into you
Simple answer for the cops here. Cops, ask your self, "Is the risk of killing innocent people worth catching a petty thief or common criminal?" Or, ask yourself, "Is my acting like a hero by putting innocents in harm's way really being a hero, or am I just jerking off?"
You know people like you are the reason why there is so much crime in the world, you want to lay blame at the feet of the very people you call when you are the victim of a crime. I think anyone who speaks out against cops in general should have to register with a national data base so that when you dial those three magic numbers (911) they can say "oh wait she don't like us and thinks we are 'just being a hero or just jerking off' " and then decide they don't need to respond your call in a time of need.
Well said Curt.
The cops are not trained properly in high speed pursuit tactics. They also get an extreme rush while they are doing it, which probably is the reason why these activities continue to occur. Unless the car contains a kidnap victim or the driver or passengers are firing guns while they drive let them go.
Catch without pursuit. Neat idea, how does that work in the real world. Maybe that's why unemployment is so high. People are attempting to catch a job without really pursuing one. Strange concepts these days.
@Dcindfw: Electro magnetic pulse, as cars have gotten more electronic they are more susceptible to this type of intervention, and sooner or later they may figure how to do this remotely without affecting other vehicles in a chase.
However,if the guy just stole your prized 1956 Studebaker...you're SOL
Wrong name for the article...should be "High cost of criminals running from police"...once again blame the wrong party.
So we are blaming the cops and not the bad guys yet again ? The world is so upsidedown these days.