"“That’s the state of our immigration system … our immigration system is broken,” Garcia told msnbc.com"

At least he realizes how messed up the U.S.A. immigration system is... it should be more like Mexico, even they know not to reward criminals and leeches.

Deport his ass. If there are two things we absolutely don't need is more illegals and especially more lawyers. He can practice law in Mexico.

I want to know if this guy gets his license to practice law, gets hired by a defendant, and tries a case, will the defendant, no matter the outcome of the initial case, be arrested and charged with employing an illegal worker? Last I heard, it is illegal to hire somebody who isn't legally allowed to work in the states.

I can see the court date now, "The jury finds John Doe not guilty" The judge then says, "Take John Doe into custody again on the charge of employing an illegal alien."

Where he get all the money for college and law school?

I don't have a problem with his being given a law license by California, however he's going to find it hard to practice law all the way from Mexico.

Truly, the inmates are running the asylum.

how true after all just because he is here ILLEGALLY and therefore highly suspicious of having ANY " moral character" that just makes him fit right into that profession.

Exactly. You people need to stop harping on the idea that there's anything morally wrong with these people. For the most part, they are just as honest as anyone else, and far more hardworking. Quite frankly, I would much rather hire a cheerful, hard-working illegal immigrant than some surly pain in the backside.

He has not met ALL of the requirements and one is missing. He IS NOT a legal US citizen and only wacko CA would be thinking about giving an illegal a Law License. His documentation is actually in process and will likely be approved, why can't he wait? Because another ahole lawyer is born wanting to set a precedent and a name for himself !

CA should save this case law changing discussion for when a few illegal Taliban want to get Pilot licenses for "work" at the San Fran airport........they are really good boys and love America, yeah right.

Quite frankly, I would much rather hire a cheerful, hard-working illegal immigrant than some surly pain in the backside.

So you'd inevitably break the law by hiring someone already breaking the law and justify yourself by stating that he is a better worker than other options? Sounds to me like you're simply a lazy employer in need of a better screening process and the balls to assert yourself as a boss.

Pot/kettle. Do some leg work.

Edit: Note: In some states hiring illegals is against the law, basing my comment on that.

So his legal status is illegal - some one please explain to me how society and the bar look right past that plain fact. He has had the opportunity to go to school in the charity state of California yet does not have the time or energy to go through the legal immigration process?

Oh and wait you say he could not get in through that process? Well hello then there is a reason why he couldn't...

So its OK to ignore our laws yet become a lawyer to practice law. What a joke...

Mike277, great question?

I'm glad he is following all laws that he has decided apply to him and has shown some moral character, but I find it hard to swallow that him being illegal shouldn't ipso facto disqualify him from practicing law. How exactly can you take an oath to uphold the law when you are in fact breaking it yourself? He wants to be a citizen, he is working towards his visa that would legally allow him to stay here, so only once that goes through should we even consider the next step.

So you're smart enough to be an attorney.There are alot of other countries you can go to live and work in your chosen profession. We have enough attorneys hear already. Good luck!

What a blight on society. (sarcasm)

Being here undocumented is, a civil infraction. I'm guessing you all committ at least one of those a day. And, by the way, he's waiting on the beaurocrats for his paperwork, and going about documentation the right way. Did you all miss that part?

And seriously, when you come up with the $12,500 per deportation, for each undocumented worker, then whine. Because afterall, if we're going to gripe about "legality" then we can't be so hypocritical as to not follow the letter of the law in how we deport them, right?

And let's face it, forcing bar association clerks and school teachers, and librarians to become immigration police is as Big Government as it gets.

If he was really a man of "good moral character" he'd do the right thing, take his parents back to Mexico and get at the back of the immigration line.

It sucks for the young adults who were kids when their criminal parents decided to bring them here illegally but... them's the breaks. If a parent does something illegal, the kids always pay the price. This is no different.

I wasn't aware that people violating a federal law were eligible for a license to practice law. Byron Raum says there is nothing morally wrong with illegals yet how can someone like him justify a federal criminal defending them in a court of law. That is morally and ethically wrong. Something else for a smart attorney to use against him when he sets up his defense. This is wrong in ever sense of the word and anyone with any common sense knows this. Do you realize how many billions of dollars are sent back to Mexico every year by illegal workers in the U.S.? Enough that it is the second highest grossing product in Mexico behind drugs. On top of that Mexican illegals take jobs that would otherwise be given to unskilled U.S. workers aside from driving down the cost of U.S. wages considerably costing us Americans even more untold billions. On top of that out of work unskilled American labor is collecting untold billions in unemployment wages supplemented by welfare, food stamps, WIC, SSI, etc. costing the working American taxpayers even more. This is not to mention the huge number of illegal aliens are incarcerated in American prisons serving sentences for their crimes costing billions more and then the additional billions spent on deporting them back to Mexico. Then there are billions more spent on feebly making an attempt at securing U.S. state borders. So Mr. Byron Raum you bleeding heart liberal democrat perhaps you should stop sympathinzing with these people who are ruining the U.S. economy and bringing down a country that I am sure has afforded you luxuries you would not otherwise have especially in Mexico. If you are not for America and Americans you are against her and us patriotic legal U.S. citizens.

This will set a legal precedent and many others will apply for a visa, pass the other requirements set by the bar and began practicing law. That's OK because there is a serious shortage of attorneys in the U.S.

So a person who is violating the laws of this nation in California is going to get his law license, say the oath that he will follow the Constitution...............Freaking California. Why not wait until he gets legal status then get his license. He can have his law degree and needs to wait until he has legal status otherwise I don't know how he can perform the oath.

Sarah..."And seriously, when you come up with the $12,500 per deportation, for each undocumented worker, then whine."

When the economy tanked and construction jobs went away, many illegals packed up and went home. Didn't cost the American taxpayers one dime. And that's the solution. Start fining everyone who hires illegals to the point no one will hire any. There will be no jobs here for them and they will self-deport. And best of all, there will be no incentive for people to come into the country illegally to work.

The article said he had applied for a visa 18 years ago. Does no one think the system is entirely broken? He was 17 then. What does the immigration service do?

Sarah - 12,500.00 per person? What the hell do they do put them on Air Force One one at a time? Can you point me to where you get that figure please? Thanks.

Deport his ass. If there are two things we absolutely don't need is more illegals and especially more lawyers. He can practice law in Mexico.

Agree. Send his ass back. I'm sure the Meh-kee-kan legal system could use his lawyer skills down there.

Who knows, maybe he'll find a drug cartel member to be his benefactor.

Lady...sorry to disagree with you, but as far as I'm concerned, anyone, Mexican Indian or otherwise, who meets the qualifications to immigrate legally to the U.S. is welcome.

All concerned citizens should make it there business to contact the California State Bar (415.538.200) and express your disgust at its recommendation that the State of California grant faux legal cover to an ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONAL who has admitted to working in the U.S. (falsifying an I-9, which requires workers to affirm ability to work in the U.S. is a FELONY, among numerous other criminal acts that ILLEGALS commit in the regular course). This would mean that the State of California would be representing this person as a person who can practice law (work) in the State of California, when, in fact, he is legally prohibitted from doing so. It would be a sham perpetuated upon Californians. Hopefully, the Supreme Court of California, which will decide this matter, reinforce the RULE OF LAW!

A GOVERNMENT WHICH REFUSES TO ENFORCE ITS OWN LAWS IS INTOLERABLE! Conferring the title of "Attorney" (which carries with it the duty to uphold and abide by state and federal law) upon this ILLEGAL FOREIGN NATIONAL would be a disservice to Californians, Americans, and to LEGAL immigrants who paid a high price, waited the wait, and went through a background check to come here.

There IS, in fact, a LEGAL process by which approx. 1 Million LEGAL IMMIGRANTS comply each year. This fellow should follow that process. He is not deserving of special treatment and rewards incident to lawbreaking! The vast majority of Americans (including this Democrat) DEMAND that our immigration laws (THE MOST GENEROUS IN THE WORLD BE ENFORCED). A recent poll by CNN found that 75% of Americans support the Arizona ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION LEGISLATION that is now before the Supreme Court.

the moral character review

Wait, lawyers have a moral character review? When did this happen? Obviously this review is horribly flawed and the reviewers blind as bats. Being a lawyer requires a certain moral vaccum and the ability to twist the truth and the law to suit your case.

What part of illegal immigrant does the State Bar of California not understand? He is not a US citizen!Therefore, he should not be eligible to hold a licensure in anything from a US school/government system unless he was here on a student visa. I am amazed that he went to high school here, let alone undergraduate and graduate school without being a legal citizen. THAT scares me even more.

And he wants to be a lawyer, oh the irony...

The new California Oath for Attorney's:

"I will usually follow the Constitution of the United States and California unless it conflicts with my personal status or beliefs."

They have got to be kidding! If this wasn't so sad, I would be rolling on the floor laughing. It is absolutely ridiculous!

He is a unique situation. His application for a visa was approved in 1995 and he has been waiting since that time for the visa to be issued. If he hadn't been approved for a visa I would say deport him, but since his application has been approved then I see no reason not to let him practice and the visa department should be held accountable as to why he still has not been issued a visa.

S'il vous plait-- Excuse the typo ("there" should have been "their" in the first sentence-- posted before reviewing.

Sarah, where did you find out it's a civil infraction? Just a quick look into the US Code says it's breaking federal law. I think you're confusing misdemeanor and felony crimes, both of which are CRIMES of CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, just one less than the other. Either can incurr a civil judgement as well, and guilt in one is not dependant on the other.

The only time it's NOT a crime and is a civil offense is when a VISA is overstayed. Going by the article, he did not apply for a VISA until after he was in the country. So, in this case, he crossed the border (criminal act), then applied.

THX - The so-called "immigration line" is a total fabrication. He's been waiting for 15 years - So apparently all those young athletes from all over the world playing in the NBA, MLB etc. must have applied when they were only 5 years old - their parents must be psychic.

The truth is that who you are, where you came from (e.g Cuba), how much money you have, and what your skills are the most important factors in being able to work or become a citizen in the USA. It has little to do with waiting patiently "in line".

Skane none of those "athletes" were "illegal" before they applied..................huge difference.

Wes,

Illegal immigration is a violation of the Federal CIVIL Code, and isn't prosecuted in criminal court, but handled in civil proceedings.

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/8/12/II/VIII/1325

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.

Well I guess we can stop all that BS about: "Illegals...Doing the Jobs Americans Won't Do" (tm- G.W. Bush, 2001)

this kid took the place of a legal immigrant or American citizen in law school and now he wants to practice law in the US- just like the illegal immigrant in Miami who is valedictorian of her high school and desires to go to medical school - again taking the place of your son or daughter

...and here all along I thought they only picked beans. What a surprise (sarcasm)

We need another immigration lawyer like we need another illegal immigrant. Let this guy practice law in Mexico.

Hey Mike277. How DID he get the money for college and law school? It's not as if Mexicans are allowed to earn enough money to send their kids to college.

Okay, I am a native born American citizen, the child of native born American citizens, child of a honorably discharged American Air Force Veteran. Due to my father's early death, I was raised in a single parent home....didn't get any free housing, free food, free breakfasts or lunches.....had to work hard, stay out of trouble, get good grades to earn my way into college....then had to pay for college, because I somehow didn't qualify for all the free grants (could be that the counselors who were advising me didn't know what they were doing either, but I had no recourse to address that problem, no ability to go back and "do over".) I earned more than excellent grades, received a BS, and didn't have the money to continue onto Law School, work hard, pass the bar exam, and be accepted into that profession.....instead, I had to take minimum wage jobs (the kind that "Americans won't do" to pay back my student loans in an honorable fashion......And an illegal alien can have access to the job and life that I cannot? This sucks!

He's nothing more than an educated Illegal who has chosen to break U.S. Law for years - SEND HIM BACK. Usually lawyers get their License removed for knowingly & willingly violating U.S. Laws. I forgot,O'Bama needs more Illegal Votes to be re-elected because Legal U.S. Citizens don't even want him breathing air. If this Wet Back is given his Law License, does than mean that all those disbarred Lawyer's will be given their License to Practice Law reinstated?? Or will this only apply to Illegals from Mexico that are invading the U.S..

This guy sounds pretty smart. What's wrong with snatching up the best and brightest from other countries? Its not like he's some lettuce picker hanging out in front of Home Depot. Just give him a damn visa and let him do his thing. In fact, I'd start cherry picking all the most successful illegals and give them priorty in getting green cards. Think of all the great scientists we grabbed up in the early 20th century, and their contributions to this country, such Einstein etc.

The bottom line is: Don't let someone with a brilliant mind, waste away in some @!$%#hole like Mexico!!!

@Sue-3329001

So what's your point? Do you know how he and his family paid for school? And for someone who got high grades you seem to have missed the fact that his petition was approved already.

He has been waiting nearly 18 years for a visa, though his petition for it was approved in 1995

It's like passing your driver's test but having to wait 18 years for the license. Get it?

Wes (#1.35)-- You're correct. Immigration violations have both civil AND CRIMINAL punishment components. For example, crossing the border sans authorization in the first instance is a misdemeanor (a criminal act). Crossing the border after deportaion is a FELONY (a serious crime). Falsifying an I-9 to gain employment is a FELONY (and is a common crime committed by ILLEGALS). Overstaying your visa without reporting to U.S. authorities beyond 30 days is a FELONY (a criminal act). There are also civil penalities and fines associated with immigration lawbreaking.

Clearly, the problem is not with our immigration laws, but rather, with the fact that this Administration (and previous Administrations) have REFUSED TO ENFORCE FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS that they are duty-bound to enforce!

and isn't prosecuted in criminal court, but handled in civil proceedings.

It is actually prosecuted in a civil court or immigration court it is a proceeding but leaving off the word court comes off as a little disingenuous.

This case is a unique one in the respect that his visa has been approved, but not issued yet. The Bar should wait until it has been issued before granting him admission. A question I have not seen asked here is what is the requirement for the period between approval and actual issue of the visa? Is he supposed to have been waiting patiently in his home country? Is he in violation by remaining here and going to school? These questions have bearing on whether or not his application to the bar should be approved. The article calls him an illegal, yet his application for a visa was approved. My question would be why was it never issued? Before the president or any other government body circumvents the law, which in and of itself is illegal, they should understand why and how it is broken. Then take the appropriate measures to fix the problem. Taking the shortcut of ignoring the law does not improve the situation nor repair the damage. All it creates are bigger problems.

Former Supreme Court Justice Carlos Moreno, who supports Garcia’s application, said that the court was the ultimate authority on attorney admissions in the state and would likely establish a rule in this case that would apply to similar ones in the future

Allowed an illegal immigrant to work in US by the State Court will set Jurisprudence ,and extend this privilege to other illegal workers seeking for job. This is an attempt from the court to legislate about immigration , this will be another case of activist judges legislating from the bench.

mikie277; he got the money from Obama

If can learn to become a lawyer, why doesn't he learn to become a US citizen?

California bar: Illegal immigrant should get law license

BS

gtouch: Actually we don't know if those athletes ever spent any time in the US illegally. Nor do we know what kind of trouble they may have been in their home countries.

But regardless of Garcia's specific case, it's still true that a typical Mexican who has never entered the US illegally will still be passed by in favor of athletes, actors, Cubans, etc. So my point still remains unrefuted - there is no line that everybody who wishes to come to the US must stand in.

Break the law and we will let you be an attorney.

@redvirginia

Allowed an illegal immigrant to work in US by the State Court will set Jurisprudence ,and extend this privilege to other illegal workers seeking for job.

You really don't read much, do you? This is straight from the article you're commenting about:

" … the grant of a law license provides no guarantee of a pathway to lawful employment in the United States for these individuals," the bar committee said.

while many qualified us students (legal citizens) fail to gain entrance to american law schools and illegal was accepted. he took a spot belonging to an american citizen. i suggest he go to mexico and use his law degree counseling mexicans in how to enter the us legally. the legal profession is suffering from our economic downturn and many are unemployed. could he be hired by a law firm since they would be violating the law in employing an illegal?

Send this guy to Mexico. They need good, sharp lawyers down there.

Skane I cannot believe you even typed your last post...........Priceless.

Sarah,

How is it in any ones best interest for an individual who is breaking the laws in this land to be allowed to be part of the system that creates the laws. Do you understand the hypocrisy in that? I can not understand how you can possibly think that is a good president for our country. Yes, our country was founded and built by immigrants, the big difference that you don't seem to understand is that the majority of those did so legally. How is it fair for one person to gain legal status through diligence, commitment and playing by the rules to have all of their legal effort circumvented by someone that is not? Your ideals are admirable but your solutions are short sided. You really don't understand the long term consequences of your solutions. Some day your children may be fighting for freedom because you gave it away based on accepting lawlessness.

Re@son@ableMD, you are LAME. Nothing in the article says anything about a VISA. RU an idiot?

This is why our system is broken, illegal aliens go to college and jump in the front of the line to get a job, while law abiding immigrant have to waitin their country of origin more than 5 years to come here legally, go college legally and find a job legally, how long it take to a illegal immigrant like this guy get to work 5 years and how long take to an law abiding immigrate to get to work 10 years . Is this right , is the the vision of Obama about justice and fairness.

If can learn to become a lawyer, why doesn't he learn to become a US citizen?

Lawyer's logic. It's common sense and therefore doesn't apply.

@cowtowntrucker

He has been waiting nearly 18 years for a visa, though his petition for it was approved in 1995

So no I'm not the idiot, but there's a cow town that's missing one right now. Learn to read, and learn to write 'are you'.

Oh, do you need me to break down the sentence for you so you can comprehend?

YIPPEE! YAHOO and...what for??? heck, let him have it. After all is said and done on "borders and patrol"-

He is probably as legitimate as the current president. Is his driving license legal?

@Sarah-3043284

Sarah I guess you only follow the laws that are convenient for you, we're not debating what would be nice but would be perfect in utopian world what we all would like it to be like. Simply stated it is totally hypocritical to require people to follow rules and laws and then simply look the other way when you like. There's no argument here Sarah the man broke the law not to mention he cheated a legitimate student out of a spot for their dream also. I don't know who funded his schooling I sure hope it wasn't the taxpayers.

It is immoral to dictate arbitrary changes in our constitutional laws for any reason.
The laws need to be followed for the benefit of CITIZENS, especially our over 20 million unemployed citizens.

Deport illegals. They are illegal. They need to go.

"He applied 17 years ago and is still waiting."

He applied after he came here illegally……

I don’t mean to sound harsh, but. If I committed a crime and then applied to make it right I would likely not find success. Typically when one wants to make a crime right they have to pay a penalty. In this case is it too much to ask him to go back to his country of origin and then allow him to apply for entry? I personally don’t think it is.

No non-Citizen has a right to be in America. I understand why they want to come here. If I was born elsewhere I might want to come here too. But there is a process to do that and it does not involve sneaking in. He broke the law and he needs to be deported and then allowed to apply to come back only after everyone who followed the law are cleared.

this is what wrong with the united states now we give to who we want too, and make reason why we do what we do. if you are suposed to be illegal to live. work are go to school then that is what it should be.changing the laws when they feel that person has did something good, and when they do something bad lets deport them. why is it that united states have to feel guilty when the laws are written and when it doesnt fit lets make a change for few people, we show are weakness in how we handle things that has been in places for centurys. now lets change because he has a law degree, he will be another displaced attorney.

If he is waiting on a visa why doesn't he petition the court to get the visa expedited so then he will be legal. Why don't all of these children of illegals at least apply for citizenship already? Or at least make it a point to say they've done so when they get interviewed for their sob stories of "oppression". This is what makes me not feel sorry for them. They feel entitled to not have to go through the most appropriate routes and still get all these benefits handed to them.

There is a very good chance his parents never paid taxes, or if they did they used someone else's SS# and potentially harmed that victim's credit. Why should we rollover for an entire group of people who gave the big middle finger to our system and now wants to not even move to the front of the line, but skip the line altogether.

We have the same immigration laws as any other western country, why is it so hard for them to be respected?

@Richard-1971294

I want to know if this guy gets his license to practice law, gets hired by a defendant, and tries a case, will the defendant, no matter the outcome of the initial case, be arrested and charged with employing an illegal worker? Last I heard, it is illegal to hire somebody who isn't legally allowed to work in the states.

I can see the court date now, "The jury finds John Doe not guilty" The judge then says, "Take John Doe into custody again on the charge of employing an illegal alien."

This is priceless. Excellent!

Exactly Patrick Conner.........the pale skins stole it first so now no one is allowed here if they are of color. Disgusting people.......the most judgemental and mean spirited people ever!!! I bet half of the people that posted things about breaking the law have broken many laws throughout their lives, hypocrites.

Yes lets let all people who come into the country illegally (regardless of reason) a law license and a degree!

Who they hell is running the lame ass show we call a government?

18 years here illegally... hes trying still to get legal??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sarah, your diversionary points on immigration are weak-sauce. Get back on topic and explain to me how someone, in a country of any kind on this planet illegally, deserves a license to practice law in a court of law they are violating.

What do they have access to that you don't? Why do you deserve access, and they don't? They're human beings also. Simply being born above a border doesn't make you inherently more worthy of the American Dream.

Sarah, it's not the fact that they have access to things that we don't, it's the fact that the law is the law and if he wants to be a lawyer and actually uphold the law like he will vow to when he becomes one (or works in any capacity legally in the U.S., for that matter) he will do so as a legal citizen like the law states. To do otherwise is breaking the law. To put it a different way, he is not above the law he claims he will work to uphold.

Hopefully you're not saying that the United States Code is the civil code... and using the fact that the particular subsection you quoted that incurs civil fines on what was already discussed as a civil offense as the entire section to be related only to civil offenses. There are criminal AND civil penalties imposed, which means for the criminal penalties, a crime has been committed.

From the same link you posted, here's the criminal penalties. I think he actually falls under (a)(1)

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

The man is a criminal and criminals are not entitled to law licenses. Let him wait until, and if, he gets legal status.

File a visa for work do not allowed this guy, to stay in US and go college while he is waiting. Can you get that!!!!! This guy should be in his country of origin not here.

How can one be considered an honest attorney if they are not honest themselves and break the law of the USA.

He needs to be deported and then practice in his country, and then do all the right paperwork to become a legal citizen in the USA.

If all the others are forced to wait for a Visa to come to America, then so should this man.

ok first of all,

Sarah if you are gonna miss quote law. People don't go to prison on civil infraction.... read the part can go to jail for 6 months but not longer than 2 years part. The civil penalties are a part of the equation.

OK was approved for a visa .... which one ... b1/b2 which is for visitors and visiting workers (people that don't live here). Visas are issued in foreign countries by the Department of State. He can't leave freely with the fear he wouldn't be allowed back if found he was living here illegally. Go to Mexico and try to get that visa.... Where do you live..... California... umm sorry sir even though your application was approved we can't grant it because you are an illegal immigrant in the United States... duh

I find it funny that there has been a law on Arizona's book that would allow fines against employers who hire illegals but is never used. Which is way more effective then just stopping someone because you think they are illegal. Just shows the politicians give lip service but they never follow through.

Why in the world would you kick someone that would be productive in society out of the country? When you let unproductive people IE. politicians to stay in a country they obviously care nothing about?

Well, so much for the ol' "illegal immigrants do the job US citizens don't want to do". How much do you want to bet he got admitted based on his latin heritage to meet some quota the college needed to get funding from the feds, taking the place of a citizen.

Sarah - I agree. This is one of the reasons socialized medicine in Europe can't be so easily adapted for the U.S. Other Western countries don't have nearly the indigent immigrant problem we have, so there aren't as many to support. Countries like Norway and Sweden have ridiculously low homelessness and unemployment rates because it is so expensive to live there that you can't afford to move there unless you have a good job. You can't hop on a boat with everything you own stuffed in a suitcase to chase that "Norway Dream."

However, I applaud Garcia. He at least is trying to become a U.S. citizen; in the case of Godinez-Samperio, he admitted to refusing to apply to make a point. Until Godinez-Samperio shows that he can actually abide by the laws he wants to be licensed to practice, he shouldn’t be allowed to.

The comments of GTouch are spot on, and humorous as usual. Also, this is a slap in the face to all of the immigrants who have done things right. My family members spent years and thousands of dollars to be here legally just like the millions of others who have sacrificed to do the same thing.

This just let's everyone know that the laws only apply to certain individuals and groups depending on political preferences. EVERYONE should be upset by this.

All illegals need to be picked up and deported. All of them. When are they going to deport Obama's illegal Aunt and illegal Uncle?

There should be a moritorium on all imigrants till unemployment is below 5%, all Illegal imigrants need to be placed on a fast track back to their country of origin. Then we need to stiffen our laws on illegal entry and any one who hires them. Get cought knowingly hiring an illegal, 20 years in fed prison and $1,000,000 fine for each instance. Require all employers to check all employees,as well as police, schools, department of motor vehicles and any government entity fed or local government entities do a quick check ALL those arrested, wanting sevice, to enrol in school...and yes I said ALL not every illegal comes from mexico. When I got married I needed to show my birth certificate (and yes it was the long form), same as when I got my drivers licence, when the police pull my licence they will see that I provided proof of citizenship to get it, or in the cases of others that they have the proper visa's.

I am all for keeping families together, but they can stay together in the Republica of Hrvatiska as they can here. Checking citizenship is much easier than this country makes it. My father took a job in a foreign country, when we lived there we need to show our imigration status card to the schools when we enrolled, to the scouts when we joined, to our employers whhen we got older and to the Government when ever we interacted with the Government, even when pulled over for turning left on in a no left turn on red intersection, we did't feel picked on or profiled. The fact is we were told we would have to do this as condition of living in THEIR country. By the way, if someone was caught entering illegally or over here illegal, the viol;ator would be on a jet home or escorted across the border with in 24 hous of being caught. So it can be done, we just need to be able to want to, and stop using illegals as political pawns.

Like many people on here, my family came here legally!

Of course, legally then meant getting off of the boat and filling out papers at Ellis Island. It was actually impossible to come here illegally then.

Before that, my other side of ancestors came over near the time of the Mayflower and killed a bunch of native americans to live here. Does that count as being legal?

This young man has worked hard and earned a law degree. He did not choose to come here illegally and has completed all of the requirements to be legal. I don't see how sending him back helps anything. If he is able to work legaly, he can pay taxes and be a productive member of society. Isn't that a good thing?

R@as@nable in MD,If you're going to hate him because he's Mexican at least be honest about it and not come up with lame reasons.

Nice try but i dont hate him because hes Mexican, really i dont, i hate him because he is an ILLEGAL Immigrant. Hes part of the process thats destroying our country, and it is NOT lame to ask just how this person passed the moral code, and ethics parts of the BAR, while being a CRIMINAL. KNOWING hes a Criminal. If that visa is so slow coming, maybe California should look a little deeper into the case, there may be a valid REASON he hasnt received it. So Maryland, how many laws do you say is ok to break, you obviously overlook Constitutional Laws, so is kidnapping ok? bank robbing? how about auto theft? are those laws something we should ignore ? Either you accept the Constitutional Laws in their entirety, or not at all, so what would you say if someone burned down your house and stole your car? i bet you would demand the law to the fullest. Well i say that if you call for illegal immigrants to be allowed here then you forfeit the REST of the laws that protect you.

First, to Sarah who doesn't read what she writes.....HE CAME HERE ILLEGALLY..... everything and I mean everything from that point forward is part of the FELONY crime he and his family commited. It doesn't matter what he applied for because he applied from an illegal standpoint, giving him absolutely no rights to continue. What the hell is wrong with California? How did he even get into law school and take the bar, with no citizenship papers???? They have just perpetuated a continuously illegal process from the beginning and now they want people to say OH poor man... look he worked hard.... Doesn't fly because as I said everything he ever did was under an ILLEGAL UMBRELLA.

"Nor do they have giant statutes erected to honor that premise."

You mean the one the French gave us that we really did not want? Are you aware that congress refused to pay of the base of the statue?.......most likely not.

Your argument boils down to if we advertise that we have opportunity here that we have to admit everyone. This is about the same as saying that if Target advertises they have beer on sale it’s ok to steal the beer, after all they advertised they had it. Yes that is a stupid argument so I am surprise so many leftist make it.

Reality is we are the land of opportunity and we are proud to offer the opportunity to apply for entrance to everyone. That does not mean that we will accept everyone and if you choose to violate the law and come here without applying then you are breaking the law. You should be deported and denied further opportunity to come here.

It simply amazes me how most people here can't even recognize how this country was founded. My ancestors came here 225 years ago, and they did not COME with no green card, work visa, and they didn't speak a word of english

225 years ago there wasn't immigration laws, further more, when the Europeans come here the Indians never ask for green card, LOL , they just toke their territory and kill them. This is 2012 and we have laws that need to be respected.

The comments on here are hilarious..,. considering the lawyer is SO MUCH SMARTER AND SUCCESSFUL THAN YOU WILL EVER BE.

Jealous?

"Most come here legally on work/tourist visas and then have issues reapplying because of the beaucrasy involved."

Totally inaccurate. Most come here in the dead of night having never applied for anything. As did this guy. He knowingly crossed the boarder without applying for a required entrance visa, that is a clear violation of A(1).

(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers,

A lot of anger and vitriol toward a young man who has been doing the right things since he was 17 to try to become documented. He is educated and contributing to society AND HE IS PAYING TAXES! What's the problem?

Correct, Sarah. There is no mens rea as an element of illegally entering the USA. It is a malum prohibitum offense. Whether you meant to commit an illegality or did it accidentally or by mistake, you still are guilty because you broke the law.

The California Supreme Court chose to disregard one law, the federal, in order to deliver a an interpretation of State law both strained and hypertechnical. If this view were adopted by the federal government we could not keep anyone out of the country and everyone here now would have the right to stay here.

Sarah @ 1.14: "And seriously, when you come up with the $12,500 per deportation, for each undocumented worker, then whine."

Let's see, another study suggests that these illegal immigrants cost us well over $100 billion per year so that would reduce our net cost for each deportation to around $2,000. That sounds like a reasonable amount to bring our country back into compliance with it's own laws. My real thought is that the $12,500 per deportation is a bogus number anyway since it comes from just applying the hourly rates of personnel we have already hired to carry out these and other duties. It's not like we're going to fire anyone because deportations slow to a trickle. Therefore, Sarah please save your dramatics for your pet issue, gay and lesbian rights.

I am so ticked off that this 35 year old gets everything in life....goes to school that legal people are paying for, gets to go to college and get a degree and then goes to law school. I am working for the state government after I got laid off in the private sector for less money than I made before I got my college education. Only problem is that I am LEGAL and I have to pay my loans back and be a law obiding citizen so I can put people like him through all he is entitled too? NO thank you. I bet he is not paying any of his loans and got grants and aid to do all he has done.

This has got to stop. Illegal is illegal no matter what.

From the LA Times:

Garcia came from Mexico as a toddler, returned to his homeland with his family when he was about 9 andreentered the country illegally with family members when he was 17.

He is a criminal who should be deported. Also, interestingly missing from the MSNBC article, the Bar stated that it would be illegal for him to hold a job even if they granted his a license. They compare this to students who are in the US on student visa pass the bar get a license and then return home without practicing in the US.

Basically the Bar is saying we should give him a license and then send him home as he can’t work here. Hypocrites? Seems like it to me.

"While a license to practice law is necessary to obtain employment as an attorney, having a law license does not mean that the holder may be employed," attorneys for the bar said in a written filing.

“Employers, who could be sanctioned for hiring an undocumented worker, should not misinterpret a law license as proof of legal residency”, the filing said.

goes to school that legal people are paying for

Where did it say he did not pay for his education?

I bet he is not paying any of his loans and got grants and aid to do all he has done.

Again, where does it say that?

Illegals should get nothing! They are here illegally and should be deported. What is so hard to understand about that?

Notice that this Illegal Immigrant is 35 years old.

Oooooops, he doesn't meet Mr. Obama's NEW DHS "regulation" for a "work visa".

Time for Mr. Obama to get back to the drawing board and make ANOTHER un-constitutional announcement in the Rose Garden.

First of all there is more here than what the reporter says. Running off their keyboards, half assed as always. You are mostly all a bunch of Sad Sacks. The real issue here is Immigrations has had 17 years to respond to this mans application. That's Appalling! That's Pathetic! That's Derilection in the performance of their duties as a government employee getting a pay check and not doing their job. Your Taxes are paying this person.

You know, its not THAT hard to get a VISA in this country. His VISA case is obviously not what he is saying it is. He hasn't been waiting for a VISA since 1995.

I married a woman from Venezuela, it took approximately 18 months for her to receive a permanent resident VISA. The time frame that he's claiming regarding his VISA is a lie. Something is wrong with his case if its been 17 years.. Please. The Immigration process in this country works just fine if you use it correctly. I'll admit that it is tricky, but if you pay attention to detail and are motivated, it works like it should.

Unfortunately, I believe he should be treated like any other person that is here illegally. It is not easy being apart from loved ones, I know this first hand since being apart from my wife for 3 years (relationship time, not VISA time frame). It sucked, and cost me a grip of money, but it was well worth it in the end.

He needs to do it the correct way. Period.

Just because he stole several hundred thousand dollars of resources that were to help the American poor, that don't make him a thief.

Did the Catholic Church repeal the 10 Commandments for Latinos??

Sarah: You can twist your little statements anyway you want being here as an illegal makes you subject to deportation and let me remind you illegal is illegal. As far as this article goes one has to wonder what they breathe in the air in California. While one could applaud this man for achieving a college degree. One can simply not dismiss the fact that his entire time spent in this country was criminal and he was subject to deportation and should have been. It is pure hypocrisy for the state board at California to think that this man could take an oath as a lawyer when he stands himself as a lawbreaker,it doesn't matter what technicality he is not a legal citizen and therefore should not be entitled to the fruits of this country. Not to mention that this criminal stole a perfectly legitimate spot for a legal student to achieve their dream also there's your morality. Of course we all know that Mr. Obama would like to make this man his posterior child for the Wet Dream Act that he is about to try to make the American public swallow. From a strictly humanitarian standpoint it would be nice if we could let everybody do anything they want and come here and be what they want. But that's not the way this country is supposed to work.It is founded on laws and is simply flat out black-and-white wrong to ask others to abide by the law and have others break the law and be rewarded for. I have never understood the liberal loon logic that rewards all the special interest while smacking everyone else who plays by the rules.

Mick,

How exactly did I twist the citations? I posted links, so you all can check them out yourselves.

Garcia, who attended law school and college in California, does not fit in that group because he is over the age limit of 30, but he is nonetheless overjoyed for those who do. He has been waiting nearly 18 years for a visa, though his petition for it was approved in 1995, the bar said.

He petitioned for a VISA, which one? Why didn't he apply for citizenship? His Father is a naturalized citizen, why hasn't he followed suit? If he is intelligent enough to complete a law degree, he is intelligent enough to pursue making himself a legal resident. Obviously, CA has not made this a priority to follow the letter of the law and this young man is the product of this behavior. It is so disheartening there are those who are willing to look the other way so this young man could take advantage of the system. CA has enabled this behavior, it doesn't mean the rest of the country approves or will follow suit.

The bottom line is, Illegal is Illegal, it is time to take down the bird feeder, we are under no obligation to "feed and care for" these "birds." We need to do exactly the same as those states who have already taken down their bird feeder. America will be the better for it, with billions saved in entitlement spending, more jobs for Americans, thereby reducing the entitlement monies spent on Americans, and billions not being sent out of the country by the Illegals, money that will be spent in America, stimulating OUR economy.

So he entered the US illegally at 17, and the SAME APPROXIMATE YEAR (1995) he receives an approved permanent resident VISA application? I knew something didn't sound right.

I married a woman from Venezuela, it took approximately 18 months for her to receive a permanent resident VISA. The time frame that he's claiming regarding his VISA is a lie. Something is wrong with his case if its been 17 years.. Please. The Immigration process in this country works just fine if you use it correctly. I'll admit that it is tricky, but if you pay attention to detail and are motivated, it works like it should.

So you married a woman and she got in more easily? Did he marry an American citizen? No? Then I don't think you know what you're talking about.

This article is hilarious if only for all the idiots that stop reading once they see the words "illegal immigrant".

Three Things to Say:

1. May California get what it deserves and not complain about costs of illegal immigrants for education, medical et alia.

2. Which Cartel financed his college and law school tuitions?

3. What type of client will he defend? His financiers mentioned above?

Sarah -

Are you married to an illegal, or are you yourself illegal? You seem to be offended by people who are hard working citizens of this country who are outraged by this illegal trying to be a lawyer in a country that he himself cannot uphold the laws in (civil or criminal doesn't matter). I have lived next to these undocumented workers that I can assure you do not pay taxes. They drive nicer cars than I do, and then go pick up their food stamps every month. It is ridiculous that you can't even afford to buy a house and have a piece of the American dream when you are an AMERICAN!! But they can because my paycheck pays for their government assistance every week. It is disgusting to watch!! So while you may sit there and think it is too expensive to pay $12,500 to deport their asses, I ask you to look on your fact websites and add up how much it costs in government assistance to keep their asses here.

PS: That word is bureaucracy. If you are going to use big words, make sure you know how to spell them.

Sarah,

Look at your own link. This is dealing with penalties not the nature of the infraction. Thus the last sentance "Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be"

BTW whats your source for the comment that most illegals are here on expired visas? I have to chuckle when someone calls for a source when their un-sourced data is questioned. However I will play along.

The US Department of Homeland Security recently told congress. "The truth is, in the 40 percentile of all the illegal (immigrants) are in this country on expired visas.”

lolfatty-

Trust me, I know the Immigration system. Are YOU familiar with it is the question? I've been through it, been to the embassy's, been to the attorney's, hours of phone conversations with the National VISA Center and USCIS, flew into Juarez, MX in 2010 for our interview during the mass chaos there, etc... I've done it.

I know if you are motivated and persistent, the system will work.. His process has obviously been neglected while focusing on his own personal gains (schooling, law school, surviving financially, life in general, etc, etc.), and forgotten about. Now, it appears to be brought to light, and he gets a pass? BS. No soup for you. If thats the case then, I'd like compensation for supporting my wife abroad for the 2 years we had to wait.. Why not? Now we're giving freebee's.

Sarah,

I'm not living in a fantasy world. People will do one of two things to better their lives. They will either work to make the situation where they better, or they will pack up and move to where they can better their lives. Which one they choose depends on the amount of effort required primarily in the short term, that being relative of course. If an illegal cannot find work in the U.S., why would they stay here? It's illogical to assume they would. Employers hire illegals because it is a business decision. It's about making more money. If you track down and fine every employer you possibly can, then it will be bad business to be paying fines that exceed what you can make hiring illegals instead of people in the country legally. Eventually no one will hire them. If you are an illegal and can't find work, what are going to do? Go back to your home country where you can at least scrounge out a living.

Also, regarding illegals not being able to get welfare. There is a simple solution to that. It's called anchor babies. You have two or three kids who are U.S. citizens and they are qualified to receive welfare in various forms. The parents get the money and if you think some of it doesn't get sent back to their country of origin, I have a bridge to sell you.

John,

Civil penalties, as it is handled as a civil proceeding. They do not go to criminal court.

Amanda,

I'm so proud that you figured out how to click spell check. I know, it takes vast intelligence to have the computer do it for you. Alas, I don't really give a flying phazoo.

I have lived next to these undocumented workers that I can assure you do not pay taxes.

Here's my source. And yours is???

http://www.visalaw.com/01apr3/15apr301.html

You seem to be offended by people who are hard working citizens of this country who are outraged by this illegal trying to be a lawyer in a country that he himself cannot uphold the laws in (civil or criminal doesn't matter).

No, no, no... I'm outraged by people who have zero facts to back their positions up and that use those positions to demonize entire groups of people. Hypocrits and bigots who secretly feel their lives are futile so they need to blame it on relatively innocent people.

News flash, your life won't be anymore meaningful should all "illegals" disappear tomorrow. You know, people like you.

But they can because my paycheck pays for their government assistance every week.

Well, except that 1996 Welfare Reform disqualified all undocumented workers from means tested assistance.

And by facts and websites, you mean CIS and FAIR, right? I've already posted a whole slew of links to non-biased sites. Did you check those out?

Here's for both you and John...

http://www.energyofanation.org/sites/25e1f498-741c-478a-8a08-aa486d8533a5/uploads/Undocumented_Immigrants_3.pdf

Excuse John, there's a 10% advantage to those who came without permission.

BREAKING NEWS:

Obama will be in the Rose Garden again this afternoon. He issued another Executive Order that gives Sergio Garcia his Law Licence and will announce that he is placing Garcia as the 10th. Justice on the Supreme Court.

Ipso Facto that America....

If only he had gone for a MasterCard and not a Visa, none of this would have happened....

You know your immigration system is broken when it's easier to steal and education and pass the BAR than it is to legally emigrate into your nation.

We have laws based around this very issue. He should get nothing and feel lucky he came this far.

Unclean hands, sometimes called the clean hands doctrine or the dirty hands doctrine,^[1] is an equitable defense in which the defendant argues that the plaintiff is not entitled to obtain an equitable remedy on account of the fact that the plaintiff is acting unethically or has acted in bad faith with respect to the subject of the complaint—that is, with "unclean hands".^[2] The defendant has the burden of proof to show the plaintiff is not acting in good faith. The doctrine is often stated as "those seeking equity must do equity" or "equity must come with clean hands"

HS,

There's no such thing as "anchor babies". Just babies. And you will pay the same amount of taxes regardless. Either that money can go to feeding children, or bombing them.

Morg,

He hasn't filed a complaint against someone else's actions.

Woo hoo Sarah!! You have figured out how to use google!! He is still ILLEGAL and wanting to practice LAW!!! HYPOCRIT Throw all the websites you want at me!!! Doesn't change that fact.

And to respond to you not that you are worth my time...1. I did not use spell check. I learned how to spell words I use. And 2. I know they don't pay taxes because they have bragged to me (I did say I lived next to them) that they don't pay taxes. So you may have facts on the internet, but mine came straight from the horses mouth baby doll!

Sarah - Sure he is, he is complaining that the state is not doing their part in giving him his license.

Obama is going to be all over this one. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't give this illegal his citizenship and diploma personally. Why are states complaining about not having money for their employees when they retire but can afford to put illegal’s through school?

Our immigration laws don't need to be reformed, what they need is to be enforced!

According to who Sarah? I have an employee from Russia who is a US citizen. It took only 2-3 yrs if that. And don't tell me it's about money, because he attended higher education institutions.

Confussed-1578043 - LOL. "If I had an illegal alien as a lawyer, he would look like Sergio."

You know whats sick? This guy will have job offers across the country simply due to the publicity of it. Especially after Obama personally hands him the VISA and license in a televised event.

Thats how pathetic this country is these days.

Amanda,

What a well researched, supported and articulate response. A personal story, you most likely made up is your source (you should research attributional bias), and then a denial of the links given to you.

Yeah, you really provided a substantive argument to back your position.

Morg,

The clean hands doctrine only applies if someone is filing a complaint for equitable relief. Please show me where this man has officially filed a complaint for equitable relief.

Sarah - You don't need to officially file a complaint for the clean hand doctrine to come into play. There is much more to the doctrine than just my Wiki snippet. You cannot try and legally force someone to do something for you, give him a license, when you are not compliant with the law yourself, he is an illegal.

Garcia's father is a naturalized citizen, according to the bar, and Garcia is waiting for a visa that would give him legal permanent residency.

Good for him. I'm all for people who follow the process and come here to become actual tax paying citizens. I totally disagree with letting those here illegally who haven't even tried cut in line ahead of these types. How in the world are they going to know which ones were here under the guidelines Obama stated? Without an ID, anyone can claim they were "here as children" and "have no criminal record". Nobody would even know if they supplied a false name.

Amanda, I could tell you that I'm a famous television and movie actor, doesn't mean that it's true.

It's okay if you don't believe me, doesn't hurt my feelings. I do know a little about the law because despite what you may or may not think I am educated. With a BS thank you. And I can tell you the real world is nothing like what you read in the text book. Or on your little links you keep posting. So until you do some real world interviews of people that you actually have contact with, don't wage too much on those statistics. Afterall, the government can't track "undocumented" aliens in this country!

Morgs,

clean hands doctrine n. a rule of law that a person coming to court with a lawsuit or petition for a court order must be free from unfair conduct (have "clean hands" or not have done anything wrong) in regard to the subject matter of his/her claim. His/her activities not involved in the legal action can be abominable since it is considered irrelevant. As an affirmative defense (positive response) a defendant might claim the plaintiff (party suing him/her) has a "lack of clean hands" or "violates the clean hands doctrine" because the plaintiff has misled the defendant or has done something wrong regarding the matter under consideration. Example: A former partner sues on a claim that he was owed money on a consulting contract with the partnershiip when he left, but the defense states that the plaintiff (party suing) has tried to get customers from the partnership by spreading untrue stories about the remaining partner's business practices

Legal defenses are only applicable to legal actions. Like lawsuits, or criminal cases. This man hasn't filed any legal action with any court.

That's like saying you have to prove your position with a preponderance of evidence, or you don't deserve to be listened to.

Umm, no, because you haven't filed anything with a court.

Sarah - "Most come here legally on work/tourist visas and then have issues reapplying because of the beaucrasy involved."

Oldest gig in the book. Get a visa to get in free and clear with the full intention of staying over. Legal way to get here and then stay legally. Germany and other European countries have already tried to deal with this. Typical to give a 3 year work visa. The individual then has 3 years to learn how to live in the underground labor market. When the 3 years are up and time for them to go home, they are no where to be found.

"No such thing as an "Anchor baby". You don't live in a border state do you? I have a good neighbor who was brought her illegally by her parents. She has since then gained her citizenship. Her and I are currently helping a 28 year old relative hers learn to speak English correctly. She knows the language, but still has a heavy Mexican accent. She came to the country when she was 14 and when 16 she had, and these are her words, "the baby". Not "a baby", not "my baby", but "the baby". When I asked her what she meant by "the baby", she said, you know, so I won't have to go back to Mexico. Now in the U.S., especially in the border states, the slang term we use for "the baby" is "anchor baby". Whether or not you believe there is no such thing as an anchor baby is irrelevant to the facts.

Just to make things clear, if they aren't already, I have nothing personal against any illegal. I know plenty of them and one of my favorite tennis partners is an illegal, currently working on his papers, from Guatemala. What chaps me is our governments total disregard for the law in favor of nothing but pure politics.

Hey Sarah-3043284,

There seems to be some confusion over which section of the code he has violated. While it is true that the section you stated, INA §275(b) is a civil violation; based on the article, it actually appears he is in violation of INA §275(a).

§275(b) deals with, as specifically stated, 'an alien apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States. In this instant matter, that is not the case. He is not currently entering. Had he been apprehended at the time he was entering, or attempting to enter, then and only then, would he be subject to the civil penalty you indicated.

However, he is currently here and, according to the article, he entered illegally. §275(a) would be the specific code which handles this, as it states, "Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the US at any time or any place other than as designated by immigration officers; OR (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, OR (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry into the US by willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact..."

Part 1 of this section of code applies because he entered the US already illegally (based on the article).

Part 2 of this section of code may also apply as it is most likely he eluded examination or inspection by the officers. (This is again based on the article)

Part 3 of this section does not apply, nor does it need to as the code allows for any of the three parts of the code to be violated separately.

This is not a case of him attempting to enter; that would be §275(b). This is a case of him already entering, which is §275(a); more specifically, §275(a)(1) and §275(a)(2).

Now, as this is §275(a), as stated in the code, it is handled under title 18 of the US Code. Title 18 of the US Code is entitled, Crimes and Criminal Procedure, so, as it is plainly evident, deals with crimes.

So, based on the article, and the code, he actually would be here illegally and a criminal (if/when convicted).

Now, with all that being said, I do think immigration reform is needed.

Paul

Amanda, Sarah will not listen to you, ever. Let alone understand just how much Illegals are costing Americans. I know what you say is true.

Also, in many states, having that state's driver's license would entitle them to vote. Something I'm sure Obama would never share with the general population. His little speech was nothing but vote pandering, and yet again, unconstitutional. Isn't it great to have a President who does not uphold the Constitution?

As for your neighbors, turn them into ICE. Here is a link to help you find the correct office to call.

http://www.ice.gov/contact/ero/

If nothing else, they will no longer flaunt their abuse of the American welfare system in front of you.

HS,

"No such thing as an "Anchor baby". You don't live in a border state do you? I have a good neighbor who was brought her illegally by her parents. She has since then gained her citizenship. Her and I are currently helping a 28 year old relative hers learn to speak English correctly. She knows the language, but still has a heavy Mexican accent. She came to the country when she was 14 and when 16 she had, and these are her words, "the baby". Not "a baby", not "my baby", but "the baby". When I asked her what she meant by "the baby", she said, you know, so I won't have to go back to Mexico. Now in the U.S., especially in the border states, the slang term we use for "the baby" is "anchor baby". Whether or not you believe there is no such thing as an anchor baby is irrelevant to the facts.

Yet another personal story. No offense, they mean nothing, and even if your story is true, there's no way you can apply that to ALL illegal immigrants. Attributional bias is real!

Check this out..

http://www.energyofanation.org/sites/25e1f498-741c-478a-8a08-aa486d8533a5/uploads/Undocumented_Immigrants_3.pdf

Willowbrook,

Is asking for unbiased sources really that onerus?

Sarah,

No offense, you are often well read, well spoken and well researched. You have several outstanding flaws which circulate a little too often on Newsvine, however, and its hard not to point them out. I dont do this through malice (although our political positions are often polarized) I simply feel compelled to let you know that:

A: When someone comes forward (such as Amanda) and states that their evidence or facts are straight from the source you CANNOT denigrate someone by stating that they most likely made it up to bolster your position. When you call someone out as a liar simply because you dont know them or cannot check their facts, it lessens your credibility as well, whether you researched all your supportive data or not. Speak to others respectfully, the way you would have them speak to you unless they have proven otherwise.

B. You cannot label others as bigots, racists etc. simply because they dont share the same viewpoint as you do. This is a weak argument at best and shows the narrow reasoning constraints of the liberal mindset. These guns come out usually without much provocation and certainly without any true empirical knowledge of others.

Paul,

Part 1 of this section of code applies because he entered the US already illegally (based on the article).

When he was 17. And for him to fall under (1) or (2) we need more details. We have no idea if they didn't walk over the border to "visit" for a day???

Second, the law here makes no sense. To hop from a civil infraction to a misdemeanor simply by being here. That's a major discrepancy. So if you get caught, it's an infraction, if you make it over it's a crime, however the actions and motivations of both are completely the same.

No, (A) is interpreted as having some sort of "extra" action as well as coming here without the proper forms. We have no information on whether or not he did.

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Show me how the article proves he did any of that. To say nothing of the fact that he applied for the proper documentation 17 years ago.

And I agree, reform is necessary, look at this mess.

Sarah, I'm well aware of the concept of attributional bias, but I did not attribute my anecdotal experience to all of humanity or anything close.)

(Regarding weaknesses of the human mind, you might find #6 interesting:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/The-Ten-Most-Disturbing-Scientific-Discoveries.html?c=y&page=1)

Riley,

I call 'em like I see 'em. I'll be sure to work on that for you, pops. What a load of patronizing BS. Keep to the discussion and topic at hand, bubba, otherwise your unsolicited opinion of what I do/don't do right or wrong, can be shoved directly where the sun doesn't shine.

I feel "compelled" to let you know that.

HS,

But you did attribute it, or at least used it to back up your position on ALL undocumented workers.

Just saying.

I'm out. Later dudes.

Riley, if you really do read Sarah as often as you say, you had to know 1.152 was coming....LOL!!!

Run, Sarah, run!!!!! They figured out your BS!! Run!!

Bwahhhaahhahhaa!!!!!

Sarah

Certainly your opinion and you deliver it with all the tact of the largest pig in the mud pit. I tried to be respectful to your "contributions" and you repay it with insults.

I can tell from how often you are minimized on here that no one else really sees any validity in your viewpoints and one-sided arguments often peppered with disrespect and denigration so I'll keep inline with everyone here that believes you cite whatever supports your argument and conveniently omits what doesnt. On top of that you find the audacity to call people out who have personal empirical experience.

Im sorry but you are the joke. Maybe others with little life experience buy into your well written propaganda (not even worth calling it BS) but it is obvious that many here are onto you. Good luck with that.

Sarah-3043284

STOP already, you have lost any credibility in your comments.....its over. Enjoy you bad day, dont you dare take it out on your kids or dog

Sarah, you have shown a consistent disregard for first person narratives. Which you can do. You can state links until the cows come home, but that doesn't mean that is exactly what happens everywhere in this country. It is insulting to the persons giving the narrative when you dismiss them just because they don't have a link to post. They still experienced what they posted, and in many cases, these events are subjects that should be corrected. Your dismissal tells them that their problem is nothing, and they don't deserve to have any corrective action taken. Would you like that if you were on the receiving end of that treatment? I would think not.

As a person with a Masters Degree, one of the most important things I can share with you is there is a big difference between theory and reality. Theory is great for teaching principles, but when it comes right down to it, RARELY is real life consistent with theory.

Hey Sarah,

"When he was 17." - Age is not addressed in the code as far as I have seen.

"And for him to fall under (1) or (2) we need more details. We have no idea if they didn't walk over the border to "visit" for a day???" - His being here illegally (based on the article where it states he is an illegal immigrant), in and of itself, is evidence of this. Furthermore, the burden of proof is on Mr. Garcia to prove he is here legally. As for the possibility of walking over the border for a day, that too would fall under this section of the code.

"Second, the law here makes no sense. To hop from a civil infraction to a misdemeanor simply by being here. That's a major discrepancy. So if you get caught, it's an infraction, if you make it over it's a crime, however the actions and motivations of both are completely the same." - it makes sense to me. Look at it this way, the crime of attempted murder is penalized far less than the crime of murder (and I am not saying immigration and murder are related, just using an easy comparison). Think of the getting caught trying to cross the border as attempt, and a civil penalty, while the already here, as he is, a criminal act.

"No, (A) is interpreted as having some sort of "extra" action as well as coming here without the proper forms. We have no information on whether or not he did." - Ah, ok I think i see what you are saying, please, correct me if I am wrong. You are saying that he may have legally crossed, at a designated spot and then failed to leave?

Ok, if that is what you are saying, then he would have had to obtained a temporary visa. If he didn't obtain a visa, he would be in violation of what we already discussed. If he did obtain a visa, and remained here longer then permitted, he would be in violation of another portion of the code. INA § 214 handles non-immigrant visas, including their expiration date. If your visa expires, you are said to have "over-stayed" your visa, and then you are out of status. Overstaying his visa is not a criminal act (according to what i have found). Though, if he did overstay his visa, there are numerous other consequences.

So, basically, it is possible that he did apply for one of the non-immigrant visas and then overstayed his visa, thereby not being a criminal. Or, it is possible that he came into the country illegally. There is no mention of his coming into the country through any legal means, and though it is possible, the more likely scenario is that he came here illegally. As such, the §275(a) would apply, not the section regarding overstaying your visa. The reason I state this as it would be his burden to prove this, the government would only need to prove he is here illegally.

"Show me how the article proves he did any of that. To say nothing of the fact that he applied for the proper documentation 17 years ago." - I am simply basing what I said on the fact that the article says he is an illegal immigrant.

"And I agree, reform is necessary, look at this mess." - I agree, what a mess.

When the going gets tough, the tough say "I'm out. Later dudes."

Probably ran out of BS "links". :-(

Reasonable,

I don't see people's comments as being a form of lacking in reading comprehension, but more of the use in common sense. It's very reasonable to assume that this guy intends on staying in the US to practice the law. If this was not his intention, then he wouldn't be applying for a permanent residency visa.

And before you start off your arguments with insults, I suggest you check into your reading comprehension skills. It's obvious the CA BAR fully expects him to practice law as well.

“ … Mr. Garcia’s status in the United States, should not, ipso facto, be grounds for excluding him from law licensure. He has met all of the prescribed qualifications and there is no reason to believe he cannot take the oath and faithfully uphold his duties as an attorney,” the bar said.

It's obvious the bar is fully expecting Garcia to practice law and I'm sure they know it's not in his native country Mexico. So I find it very disingenuous of the bar committee to compare Garcia's situation with that of a foreign student with a legal student visa taking the bar and thus receiving their license to practice in their country of origin. Many American students do this as well by going to law school in Britain etc. So while your quotes posted are correct, that students who are not citizens are often granted their law license, they are also not expected to practice in the US. This does not seem to be the case for Garcia or this would be a non issue. While Garcia is technically a foreigner, he is not a foreign student in America on a student visa, here only to go to law school. Garcia is an illegal immigrant looking to be licensed to practice law in California. That's a huge difference. Hence Garcia's unprecedented situation. If his situation were as simple as the bar committee tries to make it out to be, then there would be no reason for the State Supreme Court to even hear this case. Right under Garcia's picture it says, "A California State Bar committee is recommending that Sergio Garcia, an illegal immigrant, receive a law license in a first-ever case for the California Supreme Court that could affect others like him who hope to follow in his footsteps."

Also in the article,

Former Supreme Court Justice Carlos Moreno, who supports Garcia’s application, said that the court was the ultimate authority on attorney admissions in the state and would likely establish a rule in this case that would apply to similar ones in the future.

So what is actually going on here, is activists in the bar committee trying to set a legal precedent for immigrants living illegally in the States to get a license to practice law in the States.

Actually, Sarah, it is this country that has benefitted him. I don't see that Garcia has rendered any benefit to the USA.

True, we are remarkably tolerant toward those who cross our national border illegally. Compare, for example, the attitude of Iran or North Korea where US citizens have been arrested, criminally convicted and jailed for doing exactly the same thing. Ex-President Bill Clinton personally intervened to secure the release of two women journalists from a North Korean prison. Islamic Iran decided to release the two American backpackers as an act of "clemency" after they were sentenced to something like ten years.

Garcia was clever enough to apply for admission to the California bar. In Arizona, Alabama, Georgia he would have been turned over to ICE for deportation instead of being given a license to practice law!

I'm not trying to be a hard a$$, but facts.. are facts.

I understand the fact that you were only 17 when you came over with your relatives, therefore a minor, and obviously you followed your family because of their actions.

Here in the U.S., that does not matter.

For when a father or mother commit a crime in this country, it will almost always affect the child(ren). Or both parents for that matter regarding the children left in the abandoned bus in Texas because both parents commited a crime and were encarcerated. There was no mercy for those children because of their parents crimes, and they were U.S. citizens.

If a mother or father get a DUI, they will be arrested and prosecuted in this country, whether it affects the children or not.

Unfortunately, it is your parents fault for your current situation. They made the conscious decision to come here illegally at the time, which inadvertently affects you. You should be mad at them, not "our" US Immigration System.

This is a nation that believes one should be responsible for their actions. Your parents failed to be responsible parents and think ahead of the possibilities or repercussions for their actions of crossing over illegally, this is not the U.S. tax payers responsibility. It is impossible to get as far as you did without doctoring or falsifying documents.

Congratulations on passing the CA state bar, now please go back to Mexico and come over here legally.

MSN is 2 for 2! The story yesterday of the taliban stating POLIO meds were to be witheld from the area children until the west stopped drone flights. My thought then was that NOTHING could top that one. They're willing to kill their own kids if we don't stop overflying their turf.

Now today we have an ILLEGAL alien being granted a LAW license.

Wonder what's in store for Wednesday? This is all so amazing. I had to go and listen to YES perform 'Gates of Delirium' for release from the madness.

Sarah-3043284,

You usually make valid points but your view seems purposefully slanted here, as you editorialized the immigration statute. Here it is in it's entirety.

Section 1325. Improper entry by Alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts
Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States
at any time or place other than as designated by immigration
officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration
officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United
States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the
willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or
imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent
commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or
imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties
Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to
enter) the United States at a time or place other than as
designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil
penalty of -
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.
Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not
in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be
imposed.

There are civil penalties, as you stated, but the illegal aliens are also subject to criminal penalties as evidenced by the penalty of imprisonment.

Also, Sarah, while you are correct that illegal immigrants are inelligible for welfare, many illegal immigrants collect a full range of welfare benefits because they have an anchor baby. An illegal immigrant comes here, pops out a baby and the infant American citizen supports the illegal parents.

Below is an anecdote from a guy named Marcus.

My doctor used to specialize in trauma treatment. He quit hospital practice because the law will not allow emergency rooms to turn away anyone. But, to quote him, ” the law doesn’t say anything about these people paying me. So they didn’t. My collection agency told me to quit trying as the names and numbers were never real.” So no, the money did not come from the Feds. It was stolen from a hospital and an individual.

My favorite story: I was handing out paychecks. One employee turned to another and whispered, too loudly, “What’s my name again?”

They drain the system in ways that aren’t always traceable.

Illegal immigrants will frequently steal identities, or collude with disreputable employers to obtain false identification, in order to work, use hospital services, obtain credit, etc.

Illegal immigration costs America many billions of dollars a year in lost income tax (primarily from undocumented workers hired as independent contractors), criminal offenses, identity theft, use of hospital services with no intention to pay, welfare benefits collected on behalf of anchor babies and in many other ways.

There is also the loss of jobs that should be given to American citizens or properly documented workers. Without cheap illegal labor, employers would be forced to pay a fair wage to legal employees. Sure, this would result in an increase in cost of associated products/services but the wages would go to legal workers and benefit our society as a whole. I would not have a probelm paying an extra nickel per pound of lettuce, if farmers hired only legal workers and paid them a fair wage.

for Sarah, Reaonable, and the one or two other posters on this topic who have a brain in their head and a grasp of the basic tenets of this nation, thank you for attempting to be a voice of reason and fairness. especially you Sarah, for trying to reach the ignorant around here, let them learn a little bit about the 'honesty' they claim they are defending. it is hopeless for the most part, but I applaud the effort. ignorance is being unaware of facts that have a direct bearing on a circumstance. links to actual facts have been provided and ignored, because it's just too much to expect an American to have an actual basis in knowledge rather than knee-jerk nonsense based on fantasy and conjecture.

the number of illegals in this country is about 3% of the population. that's it, that's all. 3%. the US Military and it's associated industries sucks more money out of our government in a single week than what illegals supposedly collect in a year of 'benefits' to their 'anchor babies' in a year. our military spending is more than 10 times that of the next nation in expenditures, and that doesn't include what we've been spending in Iraq and Afghanistan. all of you geniuses have fallen for the classic ploy of being fooled into blaming all of the nations economic woes on a miniscule segment of the population which actually has a negligible impact when compared to other sections of the economy. links supplied would have told you that illegals pay quite a bit in taxes. but it is easier to just keep on screaming 'kill the Jews'! er, sorry, 'deport the illegals!' so that is what you do. parrots repeating what they've been taught will get them a reward. and your government is very happy that you are so busy foaming at the mouth over one hard-working guy that you will ignore the billions in bullshot expenses that they will pile onto you next year. I'd bet money that every single person who has commented here has broken a civil law in the last week, but that's okay, you have a right to do that, don't you? you are entitled. the reason America is in such a freefall is due to the unmitigated ignorance displayed in places like Newsvine. laziness and entitlement has dumbed the majority down to the point of eventual extinction.

so keep on screaming, all you righteously indignant thread-collapsers you! go right ahead! you are the death of America! you are the next nation of Germans standing by watching the Nazi's and you don't even realize it. and worse, you don't realize that you are going to become the target eventually

Allie22,

LOL! I never alluded that our economic woes are rooted in illegal immigration. While it is a fact that illegals cost the U.S. billions annually that is not the primary reason for our economic situation. We have the a slew of corrupt banking institutions and Wall Street securities manipulators to blame for the current economic mess.

You are correct that we spend entirely too much on military actions, no argument. That does not excuse nor mitigate the cost of illegals.

I do not parrot anything. You want independent thinking? Read some of my other posts on why we actually went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq. We went to war in Afghanistan to jump start the stalled production of heroin because the Taliban had virtually eliminated the production of heroin the year before we invaded (the production of which immediately started again after invading and was soon higher than pre-ban levels). We went to war in Iraq so that Bush's oil company billionare buddies, as well as Saudi Arabia, could capitalize on turmoil to disingenuously inflate oil prices (not to mention for the V.P.'s Haliburton military contract buddies).

I have not been calling for deportations nor screaming "kill the jews". I also did not personally attack the person in the article. I made comments on the problems created by illegal immigration. Approximately 50% of illegals collect welfare for anchor babies. That is a true statistic. Deportation is not the answer. Prevention of illegal border crossings is the key. For those who are here illegally? Give them visas but require them to pay fines and back taxes (for those who have not paid income tax). If they fail to pay fines and back taxes THEN deport them.

For those of you stating that we are a nation founded on immigrants, you are correct. What you fail to recognize is that immigration laws were put in place because opportunities for an unlimited number of immigrants are no longer here. We have limits now so that our economy can absorb a modest annual influx of immigrants.

Lastly, look at the cost of illegal immigration to the State of California ($10.5 billion annually). That is not a miniscule amount when compared to the State's annual budget. Illegal immigration costs the U.S. more the $200 billion annually.

Sorry, typo, more than $100 billion in annual costs to the U.S.

Allie, as long as there is an endless supply of cheap labor from el sur our growers and sweatshop employers have no reason to break their addiction to cheap, foreign labor, nor to mechanize or modernize their operations or to offer wages and working conditions in line with what Americans have a right to expect.

We would be healthier if it were difficult and expensive to have pizza or Chinese or Mexican dinners delivered to one's door as it is in countries with serious and effective immigration laws, or to have one's lawn landscaped by an army of low-paid workers or to have gasoline pumped by someone who "doesn't have his papers yet".

An illegal immigrant applying for a law license in California should be allowed to receive it, the State Bar of California argues in a filing to the state Supreme Court.

And they still wonder why people hate lawyers?

@Allie22-

No, most people know the BS that is going with our government at this very moment, and the assault that the Constitution is under. Happy to hear you have it all figured out and everyone else who doesn't agree with you is "ignorant".

You know, "those people", right? Ironic how that makes your post sound.

RonB, thanks for a reasonable commentary on the current situation.

Riley,

Well shucks, and here I thought I was taking the popular position??? And you know that personal, empircal experience, posted online is sooo credible. What's a matter, did I hurt your feelings? And again, do you have anything ON TOPIC, to add?

Cinnamon,

You too. Can you discuss your postion on the topic? Do you have anything of substance to add? And, say what you will about "links" at least I've provided some. Actual links, that you all can visit yourself, instead of just taking my word on it.

Roadless,

I only kick puppies over gay rights issues.

Ron,

Also, Sarah, while you are correct that illegal immigrants are inelligible for welfare, many illegal immigrants collect a full range of welfare benefits because they have an anchor baby.

Again, there's no such thing as anchor babies, JUST BABIES. And you would be paying the same amount in taxes, that money would just be used to bomb kids, instead of feeding them. Also, can you provide a link to the source of your antedote?

Illegal immigrants will frequently steal identities, or collude with disreputable employers to obtain false identification, in order to work, use hospital services, obtain credit, etc.

The SCOTUS has ruled that identiy theft, as it pertains to undocumented workers, is NOT malicious, or theft per se.

http://law.rightpundits.com/?p=82

There is also the loss of jobs that should be given to American citizens or properly documented workers. Without cheap illegal labor, employers would be forced to pay a fair wage to legal employees. Sure, this would result in an increase in cost of associated products/services but the wages would go to legal workers and benefit our society as a whole. I would not have a probelm paying an extra nickel per pound of lettuce, if farmers hired only legal workers and paid them a fair wage.

Yes, and instead of demonizing the disenfranchized worker, we could streamline the work visa program, allowing them employment rights and recourse against employers, leveling the playing field, so the undocumented worker isn't automatically chosen over the citizen.

Illegal immigration costs America many billions of dollars a year in lost income tax (primarily from undocumented workers hired as independent contractors), criminal offenses, identity theft, use of hospital services with no intention to pay, welfare benefits collected on behalf of anchor babies and in many other ways.

http://immigrationpolicy.org/issues/economics

http://www.visalaw.com/01apr3/15apr301.html

Your source for that number? Or any of your information?

Nung,

True, we are remarkably tolerant toward those who cross our national border illegally. Compare, for example, the attitude of Iran or North Korea where US citizens have been arrested, criminally convicted and jailed for doing exactly the same thing.

Right, that's the point. We aren't N. Korea or Iran, but the attitude some people have on here is fairly similar to there's. This man is an honest, hard working, educated tax payer that contributes to society. Do you benefit the country? Because if you do, then so does he.

Willowbrook,

Do you really think I give a @!$%# about either your "advice" or your so called Master's degree?

Allie,

Thank you. My mom always says, never wrestle with pigs, everyone gets dirty and the pigs love it. I say, that's why they make laundry detergent.

Everyone,

I must have really hit a nerve, huh? I'm flattered.

Sarah, taking it a bit hard today since the majority are not swayed by your plentiful links? LOLROF, You lost this debate. Face it and stay home. It took you nearly a day to respond and pretty much, your responses show you're smarting from the smackdown. This is why you are on my "Ignore Author" list...stopped wasting my time with your posts long ago. Only looked yesterday due to your treatment of Amanda and several others. Just because Newsvine gives you more leeway like they do Feisty and Backhouse, doesn't make you anymore correct than them. I will go back to ignoring you, there are far more interesting folks on the thread to discuss issues with. Obama Pelosi, Reid and you should get along great, all three of you are "peas in the pod."

So sorry for you......

willowbrook, I think why they give her 'leeway' is because she actually has a rational opinion (whereas most have emotional opinions) or produces links to back up her claims of facts. Whereas others just spew 'personal stories' from a neighbor that may or may not exist as their facts.

Like what she says or not, she does produce links to un-biased, credible sources.

Willowbrook,

Sarah, taking it a bit hard today since the majority are not swayed by your plentiful links?

Taking it a little hard that I don't give a @!$%# about your advice?

LOLROF,

Is that your way of showing, via the internet, you aren't effected?

You lost this debate.

I didn't know we were keeping score, but if that were the case, wouldn't you have had to provide some sort of position and credible information to back that position up? I don't think your "real world" experience counts in an actual debate.

It took you nearly a day to respond and pretty much, your responses show you're smarting from the smackdown.

Or, you know, I had other @!$%# I had to get done?

This is why you are on my "Ignore Author" list

Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. And why is that? Because I ask you to provide something substantive?

Only looked yesterday due to your treatment of Amanda and several others.

I know, I'm such a mean girl. How dare I not let them spew ignorance and xenophobia!

I will go back to ignoring you, there are far more interesting folks on the thread to discuss issues with.

Yeah, like those who don't call you out on your BS.

So sorry for you......

Thank you?

And again, NOT ONE DAMN THING ABOUT THE ACTUAL TOPIC. Who knew I was this provacative?

Scenester,

Thanks, buddy!

Sarah,

Don't be flattered. People think you are an idiot. See collapsed posts and people bashing your nonsense out of the ballpark. Save your ridiculous "links" and cherrypicked quotes for someone who cares. Most on here don't, and don't read past your first paragraph.

You got your ass handed to you. Move on. People on here are laughing at you and you don't seem to get it.

Cinnemon,

So the answers is no, you can't add anything substantive. Got it.

people bashing your nonsense out of the ballpark.

Can you please show where any person has responded with any non-biased source of information? Paul at least provided some intellect. What post was it, where you provided a researched and well sourced and cited argument for your position?

Have you even posted a position?

Most on here don't, and don't read past your first paragraph

Obviously. Good thing I don't post them for those beyond help. Those so mired in their hatred and so desparate to blame others for their failures, that they spew hatred at large groups of people.

Good thing, I post them for those with open minds and hearts.

People on here are laughing at you and you don't seem to get it.

Well, that could very well be true, but I'm sure as hell in good company.

Buh-bye Sarah,

Adios, auf wiedersehen, bienvenue, write if you find work, don't take any wooden nickels.

Next....!!

@ Scenester - Sarah can't even accept Anchor Babies exist and the role they play for Illegals, not only as a means to remain in this country, but also as an excuse to receive govt. aid, and you call that rational opinion? Oh, and her links are not always "unbiased." (Let alone, her quoting is not always complete for content.) Read a bit closer, next time...

Whatever

But wait!!! Cinnamon! I'm still anxiously anticipating your reasoned, sourced, substantive position on this topic!!!

Aren't you going to at least give me that???

P.S. If you're going to vote your own post up, you might want to wait until it's been posted long enough for someone to have actually read it.

Hey Sarah,

I didn't see a response to my post #159.

Also, in response to this:

Illegal immigrants will frequently steal identities, or collude with disreputable employers to obtain false identification, in order to work, use hospital services, obtain credit, etc.

You replied with:

"The SCOTUS has ruled that identiy theft, as it pertains to undocumented workers, is NOT malicious, or theft per se."

What you stated is correct, the SCOTUS ruled that the government needs to prove an illegal immigrant knowingly used the SS # of another to be penalized with the 2 years. However, this did not address the quoted issue. The issue stated by Ron says immigrants frequently steal identities. It didn't say they were doing it maliciously.

Also, while I don't agree with you on the overall issue, I do appreciate a good, civilized discussion on it; which I think you have been doing. It seems others here wish to argue/debate/discuss using personal attacks; I am sorry they do so. Without communication, an amicable solution won't be reached.

Paul

Willowbrook,

Here are your "anchor babies"...

http://www.scottimmigration.net/AnchorBaby.pdf

The Anchor Baby Myth is the erroneous belief held by many Americans that if an alien

has a baby in the US, the alien has the right to remain in the US legally. But haven’t you

ever wondered why there are over ten million illegal immigrants if all they had to do to

fix their status was have a baby here? Maybe it’s not so simple.

A child born in the US is a US citizen, but the immigration benefits to the parents are

extremely limited. After the alien mother (or father) has been present for no less than ten

years, the alien may apply for Cancellation of Removal (aka “Cancellation”) if she can

prove ten years of good moral character and that deporting her would be an exceptional

and extremely unusual hardship to her US citizen child. This is an unusual form of relief

as there is an annual cap of 4000 on the number of illegal immigrants who can be granted

Cancellation, and for the past several years the government has not reached that cap.

1

This means that under 4000 people are granted this type of Cancellation annually.

Once the child turns 21, he can file a visa petition for the parent. The Restrictionists

present this information as though it then becomes a simple matter of filing paperwork.

2

What they don’t tell you is that if the parent entered without inspection, the parent is not

able to apply for a green card from within the US.

3 She would have to apply for a visa at

the consulate. But because she was previously unlawfully present for more than a year,

she will be banned from entering the US for ten years.

4 As the child is not a qualifying

relative for a waiver of this ground of inadmissibility,

5 she would not be able to return to

the US legally for ten years despite have a US citizen child over age 21.

Even if the parent had entered the US lawfully and/or were not subject to the ten-year

ban, the adult child would still need to prove that he has enough income to support the

parent(s) and himself at no less than 125% of the poverty level. Under the 2009 poverty

guidelines, a person wanting to sponsor both parents would have to show he makes at

least $22,887

6, an income level many 21-year-olds have trouble achieving. The child may

seek a co-sponsor to help meet the income requirement, but even so, it’s clear that

legalizing one’s parents takes more than the mere filing of papers. Every year many US

citizens petition for their parents, but there is no indication that US-born children of

illegal immigrants are filing a majority of parental petitions.

Restrictionists attempt to increase the rage against Anchor Babies by painting them as a

drain on society; as US citizen children they would have access to public benefits, such as

Medicaid and Food Stamps, even if the alien parents are not eligible. However, this

claim that Anchor Babies are an economic drain on society fails to take into account the

taxes and other economic contributions that the US citizen child will pay over a lifetime.

In a 2007 report by the White House Council of Economic Advisors, it is estimated that

over a lifetime, immigrants and their descendents contribute $80,000 more in taxes than

they receive in public services.

7

Despite the fallacy of the Anchor Baby Myth, Restrictionists keep pushing it. The

greatest danger of the myth is that Restrictionist groups have used it to advocate for

denying citizenship to children born in the US if their parents cannot prove lawful status.

8

They are attempting to undermine the citizenship rights of these mostly Latino children.

Unfortunately, these groups have friends in high places. The "Birthright Citizenship Act

of 2007" (H.R. 1940), introduced in the last session of Congress proposed that a child

born in the United States will only be a citizen if he is the child of at least one parent who

is a citizen or national of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted for permanent

residence, or an alien performing active service in the armed forces.

9 While the bill was

not passed, it is chilling to know that this radical piece of legislation had 104 cosponsors

in the House.

10

The problem with denying citizenship to people born in the US to illegal immigrants is

that it creates a perpetual underclass of people, mostly Latino, who live their entire lives

from birth to death in the United States, but have no citizenship rights such as the right to

remain in the US, the right to vote, and the right to federal student loans. The Anchor

Baby Myth is the quintessential example of how the Restrictionists perpetuate their

radical agenda with half-truths and misleading information.

Wow after going through this vine that has to be the most massive rear end beating I have seen (not going to name who). I have to admit the style that the person tries to portray seems solid until you go deep into the real subject matter of what they say. I see how some people who are impressed with style and "links" (that are many times opinions and not facts) would think the postings are substantial while they are no more than that persons opinions. I am impressed at how they can be beaten severely and keep coming back for more and the way they try to attack each response with the same lame responses over and over and personal attacks on those that prove him/her wrong or simply disagree. I guess they think it's the last person standing who wins.........this isn't boxing. I wonder if they keep coming back to always have the last word. I guess we will see.

Sarah-3043284- You've posted a ton, but you "overlooked" a fact- In addition to the civil penalty you are also deported for the violation- a violation which also breaks Customs laws. Let's review just a little bit of what you probably didn't want anyone to read as you spew over and over again about it being just a civil issue-

Section 1325 in Title 8, section (A) that you purposefully overlooked-

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United Statesat any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

Now Sarah, dear, please learn what "civil" means, as civil cases don't involve JAIL TIME. Goodbye.

GTOUCH,

P.S. I notice that you post an awful lot about ME, but you've never actually engaged me in a discussion based on the topic of the article in question at the time of your posting.

How come?

Ah, Sarah, it would be nice if I benefitted the USA of course but as a US citizen I am not required to do so. An alien seeking legal permanent residency--or even a visa to enter the country--must show that his presence would be in some way beneficial. This is the central tenet of the proposed DREAM Act to grant a de facto amnesty to illegal aliens brought here as children--as the President has now done with an end run around Congress.

You seem to have trouble, as political liberals often do, with the concept of nationality.

Remember also that it does not benefit Mexico when its brightest young people all leave for the USA. But the stupid and shortsighted political class there would rather have the remittances its citizens send back from working--often illegally--north of the border.

As for the taxes which Mexican immigrants legal and otherwise allegedly pay here, have you heard of the Earned Income Credit and Household Credit provisions of the Internal Revenue Code? Apparently there are tax credits claimed by Mexicans on their federal tax returns for children residing in Mexico!

Nungman,

Ah, Sarah, it would be nice if I benefitted the USA of course but as a US citizen I am not required to do so. An alien seeking legal permanent residency--or even a visa to enter the country--must show that his presence would be in some way beneficial. This is the central tenet of the proposed DREAM Act to grant a de facto amnesty to illegal aliens brought here as children--as the President has now done with an end run around Congress.

The point remains. As a taxpaying, hardworking, educated person, he is as much of a benefit to our nation, as any other taxpaying, hardworking educated person, citizenship aside.

You seem to have trouble, as political liberals often do, with the concept of nationality.

I thought the American "Nationality" if you will encompassed opporunity, equality and freedom? Nationality, as it pertains to America, is synonomous with HUMANITY. As in all humans are afforded those three things. The closed of, nationalist, mentality has led to nothing but war in the past. The belief that one nation, or nationality, is greater then another, is the very antithesis of what this country and our laws are based on.

Remember also that it does not benefit Mexico when its brightest young people all leave for the USA. But the stupid and shortsighted political class there would rather have the remittances its citizens send back from working--often illegally--north of the border.

This applies, how?

As for the taxes which Mexican immigrants legal and otherwise allegedly pay here, have you heard of the Earned Income Credit and Household Credit provisions of the Internal Revenue Code? Apparently there are tax credits claimed by Mexicans on their federal tax returns for children residing in Mexico!

Yes, I have.

It's a loophole in the tax code. However, they are earned, as in they have paid taxes. Second, there are much bigger loopholes in our tax code, that bleed money. The ones given in order for people to feed, clothe, and house children are the ones you have a problem with? Third, the majority of those credits were given to households where the child, at least, has an ITIN assigned to them.

WHO IS ELIGIBLE FOR THE EARNED INCOME CREDIT?

Single or married people who worked full time or part time at some point in 2011 can qualify for the EITC/EIC under the following guidelines:

• Workers who were raising one child in their home and had family income of less than $36,052 ($41,132 for married workers) in 2011 can get an EITC/EIC of up to $3,094
• Workers who were raising two children in their home and had family income of less than $40,964 ($46,044 for married workers) can get an EITC/EIC of $5,112.
• Workers who were raising three or more children in their home and had family income of less than $43,998 ($49,078 for married workers) can get an EITC/EIC of up to $5,751.
• Workers who were not raising children in their home and had income below $13,660 ($18,740 for married workers) can get an EITC/EIC of up to $464.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=881584

Hey Sarah,

"The legal age for an "adult" is 18. This man was a kid, brought here by his parents. He really had no choice." - The code does not consider the age of the person when they violated. The only thing that matters is if he is here illegally. Now, a minor can apply for some changes in status more easily than an adult, such as refugee, but, the age at the time of crossing does not matter for his current status.

"No it isn't. In order to fulfill (A), he had to evade, avoid, conceal, or come across improperly. There are many ways to be here, illegally, that don't involve any of that. Furthermore, his defense would be that he was 17. Also, walking across for a day visit, wouldn't fall under (A). He could've walked across with a passport, and simply stayed, thereby going through the proper channels, after which he applied for his Visa. Which, remember, he did 17 years ago, so obviously he wasn't intentionally remaining "illegal"." - Yes, he must have had to do any one of those things, however, it is his burden to prove that. The presumption is that, as he is here illegally, he came here illegally. He has the burden to prove otherwise. he would need to prove he came here legally and is now only in violation of overstaying, as opposed to coming here illegally.

As for the defense of his being a minor, it is irrelevant. According to the code, for this purpose, it does not matter what age he was when he crossed. Again, as he was a minor when he crossed, he would be able to apply for possible adjustments of status, to refugee or something similar (though this is typically more easily obtained when a minor arrives into the US unaccompanied).

"Exactly. And again, he filed for his Visa 17 years ago." - He would need to prove this. Until such time, the presumption is what it is.
Also, just because he applied does not mean it will be granted, especially if he is currently in violation of status.

Paul

Paul,

The age of legal capacity in regards to the Federal Government is 18. That's implied in all federal civil and criminal statutes, not restated in each.

Yes, he must have had to do any one of those things, however, it is his burden to prove that. The presumption is that, as he is here illegally, he came here illegally. He has the burden to prove otherwise. he would need to prove he came here legally and is now only in violation of overstaying, as opposed to coming here illegally.

That's my point. We don't know. People just jumped to the conclusion that he's committed a crime, without any specifics.

He would need to prove this. Until such time, the presumption is what it is.

It's stated in the article that he applied in 1993.

Hey Sarah,

"The age of legal capacity in regards to the Federal Government is 18. That's implied in all federal civil and criminal statutes, not restated in each." - His age does not matter for immigration purposes. A good article to view is entitled: YOUNG, ILLEGAL, AND UNACCOMPANIED: ONE STEP SHORT OF LEGAL PROTECTION, which is available at (I couldn't figure out how to post the entire link as it is like three lines long).

"That's my point. We don't know. People just jumped to the conclusion that he's committed a crime, without any specifics." - As we don't know, the presumption under the code is that he is here, and arrived here illegally. Simply because he applied for a Visa does not mean he was here legally at any time. Until such time as evidence is presented that he arrived here legally, the legal presumption is that he arrived here illegally. This is based on 8 USC 1361 / INA Section 291: Burden of Proof.

Paul

Paul,

His age does not matter for immigration purposes

His age matters for the criminal aspect here. And he wasn't unaccompanied, he was following the dictates of his parents. He didn't make this decision on his own, he wasn't emancipated from them. He was dependant upon them.

As we don't know, the presumption under the code is that he is here, and arrived here illegally

Right, but that doesn't tell us whether it was a crime or a civil infraction. It says, he was here illegally, that's it. It says nothing about whether he came here illegally, but it DOES say his Visa petition was granted in 1995 and his father was a naturalized citizen.

...

Sec. 291. [8 U.S.C. 1361] Whenever any person makes application for a visa or any other document required for entry, or makes application for admission, or otherwise attempts to enter the United States, the burden of proof shall be upon such person to establish that he is eligible to receive such visa or such document, or is not inadmissible under any provision of this Act, and, if an alien, that he is entitled to the nonimmigrant; immigrant, special immigrant, immediate relative, or refugee status claimed, as the case may be. If such person fails to establish to the satisfaction of the consular officer that he is eligible to receive a visa or other document required for entry, no visa or other document required for entry shall be issued to such person, nor shall such person be admitted to the United States unless he establishes to the satisfaction of the Attorney General that he is not inadmissible under any provision of this Act. In any removal proceeding under chapter 4 against any person, the burden of proof shall be upon such person to show the time, place, and manner of his entry into the United States, but in presenting such proof he shall be entitled to the production of his visa or other entry document, if any, and of any other documents and records, not considered by the Attorney General to be confidential, pertaining to such entry in the custody of the Service. If such burden of proof is not sustained, such person shall be presumed to be in the United States in violation of law.

For some reason, it won't let me quote that.

Okay, this isn't quite that straight forward, either. First, according to the article, he was granted the Visa, so he must have, at some time, been able to show he met the criteria.

Second, in terms of whether it is a criminal violation or a civil infraction, this is moot. The state department, presuming someone is here illegally, is not the same as having to prove you aren't here legally in a criminal case. Just because the state department makes that presumption, doesn't automatically he falls under the criminal aspect of this and has to prove he doesn't. He doesn't have to prove anything until the deportation hearing.

This is truly a clusterfu** though, isn't it?

Sarah, I am certain a bright, articulate and extremely handsome fellow like me would be "of benefit" to say...Denmark or Switzerland or New Zealand. However, those countries' governments have the odd notion that it's up to them to decide what's of benefit and also to make laws as to who may enter, reside and work there and to enforce those laws. Even if they're dead wrong; even if it's "inhuman"; it's the right of every sovereign state to treat aliens differently from its own citizens.

You may have read that the majority in some States here once decided that chattel slavery would be "of benefit" whatever the government in Washington did or would likely do. After 1865, the principle of the federal law's supremacy could no longer be challenged.

Nung,

Denmark or Switzerland or New Zealand. However, those countries' governments have the odd notion that it's up to them to decide what's of benefit and also to make laws as to who may enter, reside and work there and to enforce those laws.

Is it the New Zealand Dream? The Switzerland Dream? Or, is the American Dream? And, please quote me where I ever said we shouldn't have laws pertaining to immigration? Having laws in place, and having "just" laws in place, you know laws that benefit the country and the immigrant, are two different things. I'm calling for reform, not open borders.

Even if they're dead wrong; even if it's "inhuman"; it's the right of every sovereign state to treat aliens differently from its own citizens.

Well, except that we have a little something called the 14th Amendment, which actually protects ALL PERSONS from just that.

I have no idea, how your second paragraph applies here. Again, I'm calling for the Federal Government to reform immigration laws, so????

Sarah, it applies because the State of California or some lefty/ethnic judges there cannot long thumb their nose at the US Congress, saying in effect "You want to deport Garcia? We'll show you! We'll give him a law license.".

The American Dream does not encompass violation of US law--even if you want to split hairs over whether the violation is criminal or civil. The 14th Amendment does not offer immunity to persons not legally in the USA. That "alienage" is a suspect class refers only to legal permanent residents.

If you reject the idea of national states, if you believe all countries and their people are equal in their moral worth since all have "humanity", then an act that benefits the United States must be measured against any harm it might do to another country--like Mexico. right? This would apply to granting Mexican citizen Garcia the privilege of practicing law in the US State of California and also to giving work permits to millions of citizens of Mexico and other countries, encouraging them to bring their talents and other good qualities here rather than using them to lift their own countries out of poverty and backwardness.

Can we in good conscience take such a step?

Hey Sarah,

"His age matters for the criminal aspect here. And he wasn't unaccompanied, he was following the dictates of his parents. He didn't make this decision on his own, he wasn't emancipated from them. He was dependant upon them." - The point of the article was to show that minors are not treated any differently than adults, not for the purpose of stating he was unaccompanied. As for the criminal aspect, for federal crimes, a person as young as 11 may be charged.

"Right, but that doesn't tell us whether it was a crime or a civil infraction. It says, he was here illegally, that's it. It says nothing about whether he came here illegally, but it DOES say his Visa petition was granted in 1995 and his father was a naturalized citizen." - Again, until he proves otherwise, the presumption is he is here illegally and criminal. He has the burden to show otherwise, not the government (or in this case, the internet community). Without proof either way, it would be criminal.

Paul

Nung,

Sarah, it applies because the State of California or some lefty/ethnic judges there cannot long thumb their nose at the US Congress, saying in effect "You want to deport Garcia? We'll show you! We'll give him a law license.".

Where did you come up with this? Did you read the article? No where did it say anything about congress or any deportation, and your reference to lefty/ethnic judges wreaks of paranoia and bias.

The 14th Amendment does not offer immunity to persons not legally in the USA.

You said ALL nations DO NOT have to treat aliens the same as they treat citizens. That isn't true in the U.S. We treat ALL PERSONS the same under the law. Regardless of what laws they've broken. That's why people here on vacation get trials, with public defenders...

If you reject the idea of national states, if you believe all countries and their people are equal in their moral worth since all have "humanity", then an act that benefits the United States must be measured against any harm it might do to another country--

Oh, so it's concern for Mexico that makes you so "anti-immigrant"? Sure. Humanity is individual, not given to national states.

Paul,

As for the criminal aspect, for federal crimes, a person as young as 11 may be charged.

For violent, malicious, dangerous crimes. Not for, what would be at most, a misdemeanor.

I don't think we'll ever come to a conclusion on this without a jury, but it's been fun. I'm off for the day.

Again.

No, Sarah. See, the way this Equal Protection - 14th Amendment thing works is that everyone has equal rights but there's no right to drive a car, to vote in our elections, to own real property, to access classified secrets or to practice law or any other licensed profession. Those are privileges which generally require, at least, a valid Social Security number and sometimes actual US citizenship.

All that aside, no one ever has contested a deportation (now called "removal") decision by pleading the fourteenth.

Sergio Garcia isn't an innocent, here on a tourist visa. He isn't even pursuing the American Dream. He's been living the Mexican Dream which is to get to hell out of Mexico, get a set of plates for your car and earn an American salary. US citizenship would simply be a means to that end.

Isn't Mexico and its people part of Humanity, the same Humanity you embrace above the interests of the USA?

Sarah,

Here are links you asked for. The first is the $113B cost of illegal immigration that was estimated in a study by FAIR. The study's detractors say things like, "It is unfair to include the cost of educating the children of illegals since most of them are U.S. citizens". My position, and FAIR's as well, is that the children would not be U.S. citizens if the parents had not come here illegally or with the intent to have an anchor baby. I know that anchor babies do not provide an easier path to naturalization. Anchor babies do in fact provide illegals the ability to apply for and receive a number of welfare benefits on behalf of the infant U.S. citizen. (I would certainly like to see that ammended in the Constitution. No citizenship for children of persons in the country illegally.)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/02/immigration-costs-fair-amnesty-educations-costs-reform/

The following link relays that $53 million in welfare to illegals with anchor babies in L.A. County alone in 2010.

http://blogs.laweekly.com/informer/2011/01/anchor_babies_53_million.php

http://www.cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011 Shows a higher percentage of households headed by immigrants collect welfare than households headed by native born citizens

Your link to the SCOTUS ruling on identity theft was a surprise to me. Frankly, I am appalled that the SCOTUS would split hairs in such a fashion in support of illegals using someone else's SSN just because the illegal did not know who the person was that he stole the number from. The illegal knows the number belongs to someone just not who exactly. Totally ridiculous. Can the same defense be used in other forms of theft, I wonder? "I didn't know the car belonged to somebody else, it didn't have anybody's name on it".

U.S. prisons cost taxpayers $60 billion annually. Illegals make up more than 6% of the prison population nationally. $60B x .06 = $3.6 billion in prison costs alone. This does not take into account the billions of dollars in actual costs of the crimes. How do you put a price on the lives of the many Americans murdered each year by illegal immigrants? (Conservative estimates put the figure at 1,400 annually. Fox ran with the figure of 2,158 annually) Will you now retort that illegals don't commit murder because I didn't provide links for each of the murders?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0608-05.htm Cost of prisoner housing

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/30/business/30leonside.html Percentage of inmates who are illegals

Please, I know you are very bright, (quite likely your IQ is higher than my 130) stop trying to mitigate the costs of illegals by using the cost of the U.S. military as a defensive point to your argument. It does you a disservice.

At least recognize and admit that illegal aliens commit crimes, many fail to pay taxes and a larger percentage of households headed by immigrants collect welfare (on behalf of anchor babies) than family units headed by native citizens.

Lastly, why do you feel that people from other contries should be able to come here as they please to work? There is no other country in the world that allows this. No other country in the world will allow people to work in their country illegally and then try to gain legal status. The immigration mechanisms are in place so that legal immigrants can be easily absorbed into our economy. Imagine the problems if anyone who wanted to come here to work could get a green card. Imagine the unemployment rate we would have for U.S. citizens.

Also, Sarah, just because we are on opposite sides of this issue does not mean I don't respect your opinions. You contribute very thoughtful and meaningful points to many discussions. I look forward to reading your commentary on other topics.

Has any country, in the modern history of the planet, ever survived with open borders, allowing noncitizens to immigrate in and out and use the services of the country (paid for by tax paying citizens) for free as they please?

I don't think so.

I agree. How can you pass a moral character review when your breaking the law coming to America? What a crock.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for a person that is in the United States ILLEGALLY to break the law? Illegal immigrant, means they are here illegally; it does not mean pending. Why is it perfectly alright and acceptable to break some laws and not other laws?

I would like to publicly apologize to all American Citizens that came to our Country and received their new citizenship LEGALLY. You followed all the rules and regulations. You did what you are suppose to do and we are all thankful for that. It must seem to you that we only prefer illegal Mexicans and we do not care how they get here. We coddle them and protect them and bend over backwards to cater to them. We make sure they have a phone button to push, and cereal boxes they can read, and bus stations they can read and we speak Mexican in our schools. I apologize to you for not offering you all of these perks and that we expect you to learn the American language and assimilate into our American way of life so that we can all be a collective group. We Americans love and embrace a diverse culture. We are a country built on diversity and culture. Hell just look at the food we eat!!!!!! But we are also a Country that follows the rules and if it appears we do not believe in rules any more, I apologize to you for that. We unfortunately have voted in some unfortunate Congressmen that do not have the balls to enforce the laws. But the citizens are going to vote out all of these disavowed Congressmen out of office and we are going to work on term limits for all the congressmen.

hey

I'd be interested to know what kind of law he will be practicing. Immigration law for illegals, perhaps??

Since this article is about the law lets call him what he really is an illegal criminal in this country. It would be interesting to find out who paid for his schooling and expenses. Realistically he also took a legitimate spot in school for a citizen of this country who applied for with proper credentials. Baffles the mind of so many families and students who are struggling to pay student debt and this criminal waltzes around the country like a movie star untouched by our law and basically applauded by our president and administration unbelievable.

His father is a naturalized citizen and he is awaiting his permanent residence visa. Its silliness to have these highly educated persons that were educated by our institutions and then throw him out to be a contributing member of society in another country... and if application for visa was approved in 1995, it just never came... he did what he needed to do. Its our immigration system that broken.

"but illegals taking American jobs, college seats, financial aid" well maybe you or your kid should be more competitive and work as hard as he/she does... citizenship does not equate to entitlement.

like ol GW Bush said... illegals do the jobs Americans don't want to do... are american rallying to replace illigals in arazona where crops are rotting because americans don't want those jobs...I think not, lets face it there are some illegals out there that work harder and have a higher work ethic than the most at the bottom of the American labor pool.

Its not like he is living a life of crime or sucking government funds... I'd gladly trade a highly educated illegal foreigner over some of these uneducated American bigots any day.... especially the ones that don't/can't read the article in full and view illegal status in equivalence to to something as morally corrupt as murder. They just see illegal... skip to the comment section and spew thier garbage.

@ MireVo3

I believe you are correct. Good point.

Sarah....you are a whack job. Blah, Blah, Blah. Illegal is illegal...plain and simple....look it up in the dictionary and quietly go away so the intelligent people can comment.

MireVo3,

With all due respect, I think you've missed the point that has a lot of people riled up. It's not just about "illegals taking American jobs" and whatnot (although some people are certainly upset about that - and for good reason). It's not that people think this man is some sort of slime ball who's mooching off of the system. (Some do. I disagree with them, on that point.) It's that this man is still considered "illegal." Regardless of the circumstances that led to that point, does the state have the right to turn a blind eye to the law on a case-by-case basis? That sort of defeats the purpose of the law.

I, personally, have a lot of sympathy for the illegals that came here looking for a better life. I have even more for the kids they brought with them that now have to deal with a lot of crap. But "illegal" is still "illegal" and I'm not in a position to grant amnesty just because I fell bad for them. Until the law is changed, the state has a responsibility to uphold the law, whether it likes it or not.

At MireV03, you stated that "s not like he is living a life of crime or sucking government funds" BUT HE IS...as he is an ILLEGAL ALIEN...deport him...period

There is no reason why he should be given the ability to practice law in the U.S. He is not an American citizen and has no legal rights. No other country would be allowed to get away with what Mexico is and I do not understand it.

Noryc-2802231,

I think you nailed it.

Sympathy and empathy have very little to do with this. Unfortunately, politics most certainly does.

So the California Bar says this young man "deserves" to be an attorney because he fulfilled all the requisite classes and requirements, and passed all the necessary exams.

Oh, boy.

First of all, there were several breakdowns in allowing this individual to get as far in his education as he did. The fact that many feel sorry that denying him a license to practice law would constitute a great deal of wasted time and effort on his part is irrelevant.

Our president apparently thinks very little of our immigration laws. This latest news just goes to show that some states treat it just as lightly.

I lived in Tucson, Arizona for twenty years. I have a great number of friends who earned their US citizenship through time, money and hard work.

Don't tell *them* this guy "deserves" anything.

OK look - He has is paper work in for a permanent Visa. I think these things should be done in the proper order and so he should get that Visa and then get his license.

It's the proverbial "foot in the door". It starts small and leads to ever-increasing subversions of our country.

Let illegals attend schools. Let illegals attend college. Let illegals join the military. Let illegals hold law degrees. Let illegals become judges. Let illegals VOTE! Let illegals HOLD POLITICAL OFFICE! Let illegals SUBVERT, CONTOL, DISTROY the United States of America from the inside.

Come on- they are lawyers! You expect them to care about the laws? Who cares that he just broke one fundimental immigration law, he deserves to practice law. Yeah right.

I loved hte language- "ipso facto, ergo, ego, ico, yugo, Hugo should get a license" That's the same BS that they use to get juries to pass money from the public to their pockets while keeping criminals out of jail, raising doctor's insurance costs (which get passed to you), stopping law abiding citizens from going about their daily activities due to legal "pressure" and intimidation and "you can't do that- it's____(racist, sexist, non-inclusive, agist, etc).

So far as I'm concerned CA go for it! Keep all the illegals you want there, raise your taxes as much as you want to create your "living wages", let your state deficit grow those $40billion per year, have a blast. That being said, don't come asking for the rest of our help when you hit Greece problems. I'm sure that you are much smarter than the rest of the states, so I'm really looking forward to your innovative belt tightening techniques.

I think I'm going to start a plate glass company. I think I'll make some good returns when ya'll start breaking a lot of windows out there.

Not a Socialist - He may be planning to do work comp. law. Did you know illegals are perfectly entitled to collect work comp in this country. I know because I did work comp. work in FL. Most of the claimants were illegals who freely stated that they bought fake Social Security cards, driver's licenses, etc. They were right in your face about it like it's a big joke. They work at a lot of day labor places for various employers and have plenty of small work injuries for which they get settlements. Now we have an illegal future shark being defended by sharks in CA. People you can kiss this country goodbye. At this rate it won't last another 20 years.

In his failure to take steps to become a legal citizenship he should not be into the American Bar Association and therefore represnet legal civilians who are need of LEGAL representation.

Sorry sir, but allowing such is a contradiction---you are here illegally but you want to help other legally???????? This si wrong, and sends a very poor message to Illegals.

Additionally, due to the fact that you are here in the US of A illegally you may have already breached the Rules of Professional Conduct and thus are unfit to be a legal representative of the law---for you have failed to follow our laws!

Unfortunately, he is in the country illegally. He is 35 years old -- so he's been an adult for over 15 years. As an adult, he needs to "man up" and deal with his situation in a mature way.

He has also, obviously, attended law school and, if competent to practice law, must have realized he was in the country illegally at some point. From that moment on, he was consciously and deliberately breaking the law for his own gain and continues to do so to this instant. Only in a world of lawyers could such repeated, overt, conscious, and self-serving illegal behavior not prevent someone from "passing the moral character review". Absolutely amazing - if I had any respect left for the bar, it's now all gone.

It sucks for him that his parents screwed him over, just as if they had abused him or taught him religious crap that would poison his mind and attitude for the rest of his life. But, he's responsible for himself and blaming his parents for his plight makes no sense -- else we would all be blaming our great grandparents for some real or imagined problem we have.

I'd like to see us open our borders legally to more highly qualified people with concrete skills that will help our economy. However, we have way more lawyers than we need and most of those government guaranteed student loans owed by educated lawyers that can't get decent jobs will end up being eaten by the taxpayers. We have plenty of lawyers who haven't intentionally broken the laws of our land -- we don't need any more who have done so.

It does NOT take 18 years to get your visa once it's been approved. It should take less than a week to receive it once you get your pink slip. Most of the wait time is getting your interview in the first place. To me it seems very fishy that he never got it once approved. At the time he was only 17, which means his parents more than likely applied for him. I'm not sure if his dad was naturalized at the time or not. According to US Immigration law, children under the age of 21 can follow a parent on the same visa petition. But if the child turns 21 before they reach "the front of the line"(their term not mine), then a new petition has to be filed. US Immigration rules also states;

Your relative’s approved petition gives your relative a place in line among those waiting to immigrate. It does not give permission for your relative to live or work in the United States while he or she is waiting to apply for permanent residence. If he or she enters or stays without legal status, it will affect his or her eligibility to become a permanent resident upon reaching his or her place in line for issuance of a visa. ....

If you become a U.S. citizen while your relative is waiting for a visa, you can upgrade your relative’s visa classification and advance the processing of that petition by notifying the appropriate agency of your naturalization. When you are a U.S. citizen, your spouse and any unmarried children under age 21 will have visas immediately available to them.

http://shusterman.com/greencardsthroughrelatives.html

(it's from a PDF file from this website.)

Okay, so if his dad was naturalized while he was waiting for his visa, then he could have his visa automatically given to him. So it's reasonable to assume that he turned 21 before his dad was naturalized resulting in his need to reapply for permanent residency. And if he reapplied being an adult he would not be allowed to live and work in the US. So either he never reapplied after he turned 21, and so never received his visa. Or, he did reapply but had stayed in the US going to University and then law school, resulting in a rejected visa, or a delay in his visa being approved. But the fact is, we really have no clue what has happened, this is all just conjecture. The article is pretty vague on the details. I just personally find it very hard to believe that he still hasn't gotten his visa after 18 years, yet his dad is a naturalized citizen; especially since he would have been a minor and so included on his parent's petition for immigration.

Personally I think forcing a relative to stay in another country during the process is ridiculous. Most all American bureaucracies muddle up processes, making them more difficult then they need to be.

This is al twisted. Political maneuvers make our laws impracticable to the point that illegal immigrants have the same benefit that legals even they don't follow the law. My family came here to US after more than 5 years waiting in our country following a legal process , a process that require health exams, background ,enough money and not to be another family welfare recipient, with two boys in college and having relatives American Citizens, send my boys to American Colleges get graduated and then get their visa in US not in our country of origin and start working. It could be easy for us do the same too. But it doesn't work like that, we must stay in our country of origin otherwise we lose out privilege to be a legal resident. What is giving to this illegal immigrant is wrong, is an slap on the face of the law abiding immigrant that follow the law. I am a citizen now and my vote counts.

WOW! Show me one other country that finds illegal immigrants, lets them become educated at the expense of the state, and then fights for them to have more rights than their actual citizens. This is ridiculous. California complains about not having any money, yet they fund illegal immigrants going to college, ILLEGALLY! The poor Asian kids that fill out student Visas and follow the rules would have been sent home by now. Since when is it taboo to point out the obvious. I understand putting extra effort in to getting along with those who are here legally, but then crap like this comes up. What a JOKE! Stop wasting tax payer money to support these LAW BREAKING foreigners. The guy in Florida stayed on an expired Visa, that's DOUBLE ILLEGAL. Now, they have broken the moral code needed for the bar in EVERY SINGLE STATE. Send them home, we don't need any more questionable people in our country, we have plenty of all colored politicians to fill those roles. And for those of you who say it would be to expensive to send them home, why not put a pencil to the $100 billion in federal aid alone that goes to illegal immigrants for them to stay here. Compare that to our deficit and budget short falls and see how long it takes to bank out. This is stupidity at its finest. We have done nothing as a nation to the hispanic population, yet the government seems to create more reparations for them then they do for the negro populations that were brought here AGAINST THEIR WILL for SLAVERY! We don't even pay contracts to the Native Americans, but we sure better walk on egg shells for the hispanics! Come on! They aren't even that crazy! They know its messed up but treat the US like the carnival, if the gates open they're gunna play!

Meanwhile, I couldn't go to Mexico to rent an apartment. Something is wrong here...

But California lawyers are not even true lawyers, judging by how well they've done in high profile cases concerning celebrities and that you don't need to pass law school to take the bar.

Give him his law license and send him packing, then! Let him practice law in his own country. This is exactly what's wrong with this country. And some people wonder why our debt is so out of control. The illegals bleeding it dry aren't helping. Why should my tax dollars pay for people like this? We need to take care of our own first.

Go ahead and give the guy his California law license...along with a bill for any and all taxpayer dollars that went into his education, and a one-way bus ticket back to Mexico. Until he repays the American citizens for any financial aid he has ever recieved (public education, food stamps, welfare, scholarships not specifically designated for illegal foreign students, etc.) in his lifetime as an illegal immigrant AND goes to the back of the line to restart his legal immigration proceedings, he should not be eligible to practice law anywhere in this country. He shouldn't even be IN this country.

(Besides, even if we do deport him, he'll just hitch a ride back with the next group of illegals.)

Kim from Utah said:

Illegal immigrant, means they are here illegally; it does not mean pending.

To Homeland Security, it does.

Illegal is, according to Homeland Security:

...a person who hopped the border, shot a cop and deals in drugs along the way.

...the child trafficked into the US and bought by a USC to film child porn or for child prostitution.

...the internationally adopted child whose adoptive parents brought s/he here for an adoption but the adoption agency was crooked and gave the parents forged papers and pocketed the money instead.

...the immigrant who has been waiting for 5, 10, 15, 18, 20 years for their paperwork to be processed.

...the 6 year old Haitian orphan pulled from rubble and taken to a military hospital, who checks out with no criminal record and has an aunt in Miami willing to take him in. Marines put him on an emergency evac when aftershocks leveled the hospital, he arrives in Miami only to be detained for months in deportation as an illegal even though deportations to Haiti have been halted indefinitely.

...the person with a birth certificate from Louisiana but Immigration officials decide they can't tell if it's real and deport because they don't have a legal obligation to check on a person's claim to citizenship.

...the naturalized Army vet who proved he was a citizen in front of a judge but ICE continued to hold him as an illegal even after he was ruled a citizen.

...the woman who was a citizen for 34 years until USCIS finds out the State department granted her by blood citizenship by mistake--her father was born in Indiana but had only lived in the US for six years. Although the law says he only needed to live in the US for one year for his child to be considered for citizenship, USCIS insists her father had to be ten when his parents moved overseas and stripped her of her citizenship.

...the child abandoned at an orphanage with no papers (undocumented) and adopted later legally. When USCIS loses the adoption paper, and the child, now an adult, does not know she was adopted, she is detained for being illegal but there is nowhere to deport her to since there is no known record of where she was born and no country will accept her, so she is told she'll remain in deportation until she comes up with a copy of the adoption paper.

...the child brought to the US in the 40's as an infant, adopted legally but INS at the time never told her parents they had to file for citizenship. 60+ years later USCIS finds out the error and deport her as an illegal, taking her house, her car, her bank account, and possessions as civil asset forfeiture and leave her son, who is living with her, homeless.

...the child who was taken away at the age of 5 from abusive, illegal parents and placed in foster care. The foster parents adopt the child, the state agency tells them the child's citizenship is taken care of, 12 years later when the child goes to get her first drivers' license they find out the paperwork was never taken care of and she is illegal.

In order for someone to be illegal or for an act to be illegal, you have to prove that there was intent. In the above examples of what Homeland Security calls 'illegal', how many of those could you prove had 'intent?

Person who hopped the border, shot a cop, dealt drugs--yes intent. Deport.

Child trafficked so some legal citizen pedophile could make child porn--No intent.

Internationally adoptd child--no intent

Haitian refugee--no intent

Person with LA birth certificate--USCIS sould be required to check if that birth certificate is genuine. No intent.

Army vet--this shouldn't even be an issue. he was willig to serve in our military and die for this country!

Woman who had her citizenship stripped after 34 years--no intent

Child abandoned at orphanage--no intent

Noryc said:

It's that this man is still considered "illegal." Regardless of the circumstances that led to that point, does the state have the right to turn a blind eye to the law on a case-by-case basis? That sort of defeats the purpose of the law.

He is NOT illegal. He was approved for a visa in 1995 and has been waiting ever since. He's 'undocumented'. Undocumented is NOT illegal. The media and Homeland Security lump all of us under 'illegal' but we are not all illegal!

Shartorious said:

I have a great number of friends who earned their US citizenship through time, money and hard work.

And what do you think this guy did? He came, he applied for a visa, he was approved in 1995 for one and while he was waiting (time) he put in money and hard work getting a law degree. he has evry right to get a law license.

Kate Indigo said:

It does NOT take 18 years to get your visa once it's been approved. It should take less than a week to receive it once you get your pink slip.

Yes it can take that long. Look. I have a naturalization certificate. If I lose it and I need a copy it will take 3 years to get one. A COPY. Not the original, a copy of a green 8 1/2x 11 sheet of paper with the Oath of Allegiance printed on it and a passport photo (which I have to pay for) stapled to it.

What'sLegal said:

Unfortunately, he is in the country illegally. He is 35 years old -- so he's been an adult for over 15 years. As an adult, he needs to "man up" and deal with his situation in a mature way.

He has also, obviously, attended law school and, if competent to practice law, must have realized he was in the country illegally at some point. From that moment on, he was consciously and deliberately breaking the law for his own gain and continues to do so to this instant. Only in a world of lawyers could such repeated, overt, conscious, and self-serving illegal behavior not prevent someone from "passing the moral character review". Absolutely amazing - if I had any respect left for the bar, it's now all gone.

He got approved for a visa in 1995 and has been waiting ever since to get it. That means he's not illegal, he's still being processed. Did you miss that part in the article?

Blessed Goddess, people, will you please READ the article before commenting? What do you do, as soon as you see the word 'illegal' you start going off about illegals without even reading it? This guy is NOT illegal--he was approved for a visa IN 1995. He's been waiting ever since to get it--and he's going to have to wait another five years.

Amanda, intent has nothing to do with being in violation of a law, only with whether or not it was a premeditated act.

If I am going downhill and my car exceeds the posted speed limit, I have just violated the law, even if gravity and momentum were the cause.

If I leave my house without current, valid picture I.D. on my person, I have violated the law in my state, even if I was just going across the street to get the mail.

If I attend an illegal card game simply for the purpose of trying to reform those who would gamble illegally, I am in violation of the law, no matter what my intentions were.

If I am not a citizen of the country I reside in, and have no supporting paperwork to prove I am here legally, I am here illegally. It doesn't matter if I am a nice guy, or I get good grades, or even if I volunteer at the local soup kitchen, I have no legal right to be here, and neither legal nor moral grounds to accept any government assistance, nor any legal or moral expectations of being allowed to make use of the skills I have obtained while being here illegally.

He IS here illegally. No one has to wait 17+ years for a resident visa. No one. There is a HUGE difference between losing your green card and having to wait three years for a new copy, and not even attempting to follow up on the paperwork started by his father, who did it the right way. He probably took advantage of every opportunity he saw to claim minority status as far as his education went, but couldn't be bothered to make sure his own legal status was squared away.

And California wonders why they have more debt than most G20 nations.

Gee Amanda did you read my whole post before responding to me? *sarc*

Hmmm, according to US Immigration:

Once you file USCIS Form N-565 (Application for Replacement Naturalization/Citizenship Document) to be issued a new naturalization certificate, it can take a year for your new certificate to get to you.

http://www.us-immigration.com/us-immigration-news/how-to-replace-a-lost-naturalization-certificate.html

So it can take up to a year not 3. Yes, that's still a long time to get a replacement certificate, but it could just be the type of process it goes through. I immigrated to Canada 7 years ago and the whole process to become a permanent resident took 3 years. Some day my French Canadien hubby and I might move to the US. Because my husband and I have looked at the process, we read from gov documents that it could take up to 3 years for him to get his green card and he would have to stay in Canada till he got a temporary visa allowing him to come work and live in the US. So I had a hard time believing that Garcia who had already been approved in 1995 still hadn't received his green card. Since you seem to think that 17-18 years, with about 5 more years to go according to Garcia, sounds legit (even though he's still not legally allowed to be in the US during this process without at least a temporary permanent residency card; which is only a 2 yr visa.) I searched and searched for more info. From what I've found it really depends on which country you're applying from. Some countries have more applicants than others making the wait longer. It also depends on what type of application you're filing under. It's quicker for spouses and unmarried children, than it is for married children and siblings to get their green cards. If you read my entire post above, I quoted how children can get their green cards automatically if they are in the process of getting their visas and a parent has become a citizen. Since this didn't happen to Garcia even though his father is a citizen, then something else happened. Either he turned 21 and had to reapply or he had a sibling apply for him, or his status is under scrutiny because he's been living in the States without a visa.

Here's what I found for people immigrating from Mexico (who are supposed to stay in Mexico till they get a visa to come to the US)

On average, the wait time for an unmarried adult child of a U.S. citizen to come to the United States is about six years. The time increases to 13 years if the child is from Mexico and to 14 years if he or she is from the Philippines. Married children of a U.S. citizen can expect to wait about seven years to immigrate legally, but the wait increases to 11 years if they are Mexican and 15 years if they are Filipino.

The spouse or child of a permanent resident (a green card holder who is not a U.S. citizen) must wait approximately seven years if they are Mexican, or five years if they are from other countries.

The study also reveals that the wait times for siblings of U.S. citizens can be 11 or 12 years and up to 22 years for those born in the Philippines.

http://www.imdiversity.com/villages/hispanic/politics_law/nam_residency_delays_0706.asp

So you're right, it can take a very long time for Mexican immigrants to get their permanent residency status, but not nearly as long as Garcia has been waiting and expects to wait even longer. On average it takes as long as 13 years for Mexican adult children to get their visas. Garcia says he's not expecting his for at least another 5 years that's 22/23 years, and it just doesn't fit with all the info I've researched. Also he was under 21 at the time (about17/18 yrs) which would have meant he was a minor at the time his visa was approved. I call shenanigans on this one.

I'm surprised he hasn't been deported and his application rejected for violating immigration law by living and possibly working(article doesn't say) in the US while his application is being processed. I find it ironic he says "our"(As if he's an American) immigration system is broken while he isn't even adhering to immigration law, and making it even more ironic he wants to practice law!!! The California Bar Committee and MSNBC are the ones who say he's an illegal immigrant. You going to argue with the lawyers in the CA bar? Just because his petition for permanent residency has been approved doesn't mean that he's allowed to be in the US legally while it's being processed, hence his illegal status.

The study also reveals that the wait times for siblings of U.S. citizens can be 11 or 12 years

That is crap, we filed for my brother in law when my son was born, my son is 15 now. He was approved for a visa about 2 years after we filed, but he is still waiting for it.

Excluding the morality clause (which I find a somewhat amusing clause for lawyers to meet *insert lawyer joke here*) there's no reason he shouldn't be provided his license to practice law. The burden should be whether or not he is eligible to work for a law firm due to his immigration status, and any crimes he may or may not have committed obtaining the degree.

morebits...adjust your tinfoil helmet would you?

D-151 - "any crimes he may or may not have committed obtaining the degree."

You mean like residing in the U.S. illegally the entire time?

Exactly! How do these people get through the system of checks and balances without documentation. How many folks are simply turning a blind eye to this? Where do these 'students' get the funds for 4 year degrees and law school. Saw a young girl interviewed on CNN this past weekend with almost the same story and was in a sorority (which requires many $$).... I'm so puzzled! :) Someone please explain!!

@Trinity - The system of checks and balances is failed in itself. No one screens the public funds that are distributed, IE Welfare, Medicaid, Medicare, Unemployment, Food stamps, Financial Aid. If it were all screened properly then there might not be an issue. What really melts my brain is how an illegal immigrant can apply for these programs meant for AMERICAN CITIZENS, and obtain OUR tax dollars for their own benefit. Not to mention all the legal US residents who simply take the money to abuse drugs or some other ridiculous hobby.

The system is broke. Tax funded programs need to cease until those who should be receiving them and truly need the assistance receive it.

I hear a lot of "Americans" crying about deporting his ass...and some about how he got the money...etc.

Why dont you stop and think for one second..Americans are lazy,...this guy came to this country because he cant obtain his dream in his country. Also he is in the "process" of recieving his citizenship..where he would be legal! This guy has drive, determination and took the time to study and achieve his license in law!!! That is not easy.....but HE did it! It is immigrants like him that make this country what it is...This country was founded on the killing Native Americans, using slave labor, and immigrants coming her for a better life! If not for immigrants....there would be no America!

I do see the point...he is illegal.....however, your not going to get an education or a job, sitting in front of the computer...watching Maury, eating chips!

I thnk the point is eing missed here. The article is about The California Bar saying they have no grounds to say no. This does not mean he will legally be able to get a job, only be certified. The point about hiring illegals for a defendant is a good one. But again, that is not the Bar Associations responsibility- thye only certify his readiness.

As for making fun of lawyers. they are a joke! Yes they are intelligent. they also do everything they can to circumvent the laws intent, drag out a case for financial gain and in the end get to walk away and say "Oh well, i tried." And class action attorney's are the worst. Billions in settlements with pennies to the plaintif and with expenses( that includes their staff) over 50% of the money. you're right they are not funny- they are scum sucking greed machines.

How many native born American citizens, or naturalized citizens following proper procedure are now retirees, being humiliated, harassed, and badgered for meagre assistance programs while those here illegally are living a better lifestyle than somebody who lived, worked and paid taxes for decades, following all the laws of the land? Those of you who say that I am crazy for asserting this, have not yet had to walk through the maze of what is called social security, medicare, part D, etc with an elderly parent or friend. It is disgusting. My mother was expected to supply all her needs on $1000 per month and that included the co-payments for Medicare and prescription drug coverage.....and an illegal family can get more than twice that in assorted aid programs. They can get the food stamps that my mother could not qualify for. They don't pay a cent to walk into a medical facility and they have to be treated. My mother has been dead for over two years, and I am still getting dunning phone calls from medical entities still trying to extort money from a person who had nothing left when she died. I am being harassed by a utility company for $63 because they wouldn't come out and shut off the electric when I notified them of my mother's death, because I wasn't the customer of record. We have to document that we have a right to live and work in the country of our birth-how do these folks get around it and manage to live in better style than we can.

This guy will take a job away from a red blooded American.
Sad.

I do see the point...he is illegal.....however, your not going to get an education or a job, sitting in front of the computer...watching Maury, eating chips!

Exactly at what level do you discern between proper and improper though? Being here illegally and going into the legal field? Doesn't that seem quite contradicting? Yes, we understand obtaining a law degree is difficult. Despite that matter, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

Xaziol

Immigration is a necessity for our economy to continue to grow and thrive. In order to remain competitive in the world, we need constant innovations and inventions. Fresh ideas and fresh perspectives are how these things are achieved. It is possible and has been shown that a closed system and economy stagnates, evidence all the communist regimes that have crumbled under the weight of their closed economies. It has always been that the free exchange of ideas and perspectives have fostered growth. But how does that relate to immigration? Simple, there may not be enough people willing to enter a profession for any number of reasons and soon that profession dies in this country to be replaced by an out sourced or foreign interest. If companies are allowed to seek out the best and the brightest, they will continue to be innovative and be market leaders. That is why immigration is important! Simple economics!

We often stereo type illegals as lazy, criminal, or leaches on society. In some cases those things are true, however, in most cases they are not. Why do companies higher illegals? Well in some cases it is because they will do things that Americans will not, that we think are beneath us. In some cases it is because of lower wages and higher profits. Yet in others it is the availability of a skill set that is in short supply in our country. One last item to think about, if illegals were so lazy as they are stereo typed to be, why would they make the effort to come to the US and why would companies higher them and go to great lengths to keep them working? It is not all about wage even though that does play a role, just maybe it has something to do with quantity of work and attitude offered for the wage as well.

@mqira: You shouldn't point fingers at people and accuse them of something you're doing yourself. Also, if not for LEGAL immigrants, there would not be an America.

more2bits-4021678,

Obama should be feared like Hitler??? Um, really? Wow, that is a stretch! Just curious, where is the comparison, I would really like to know. I am guessing that there is a large number of Jews that would disagree. Want to attack his policies or political views, do so, but this type of baseless rhetoric is childish and reeks of someone who can't articulate intelligent thoughts without resorting to hype..

No no no, Obama is not like Hitler. More like this:

http://media.photobucket.com/image/hitler%20obama/Brandon_Jared/NOBAMA.jpg?o=62

Archangel, you are wrong on so many levels, it's hard to know where to start.

First off, not one person would disagree with you that LEGAL immigration is necessary for a country to continue to grow and thrive. The Great American Melting Pot that began at Ellis Island welcomed immigrants from all different countries, including both yours and my ancestors. It's a nice emotional football you're tossing around there, but it has nothing to do with the article at hand. Mr. Ellis has had 17 years to resolve his illegal status, and instead chose to avail himself of an education that should be reserved for American citizens or LEGAL foreign students. At our expense.

Yes, we should seek out the best and the brightest for our companies and corporations, but we should not be willing to break the law to retain their services. There are dozens of different visas available for foreign workers to be eligible to work in the U.S., but no one gets to jump the line. You go to the back of the line and wait, just like all the legal immigrants did.

Lastly, you claim that "we" stereotype all illegals as being lazy. I don't know whom you are speaking for, but you do not represent my views, at all. Neither I, nor anyone I know, views illegals as being lazy. Illegal, yes. Lazy, no. The simple fact is, as you so dismissively put it, economics. The reason companies are willing to risk hiring illegals is the minimum wage. I know dozens, if not hundreds of people who would be more than happy to pick fruit, sweep floors and dig ditches, but the minimum wage has priced them out of the job market. If the job market was allowed to set a person's wages according to their capabilities, there would be no market for illegal workers. As it is, they fill all the positions that used to be taken by young people looking for their first job, students looking for part-time work and retirees trying to make ends meet, which puts an ever-greater burden on all of us when these people turn to the government for assistance.

Self-correction: I mistakenly referred to the subject of the article as Mr. Ellis. His surname is Garcia.

Trinity, they don't turn a blind eye, most welcome it.

Each year, about 65,000 undocumented students graduate from U.S. high schools, says a report by the College Board. The American Association of State Colleges and Universities estimates that between 5% and 10% go on to college.

Most of the debate about illegal immigration and higher education has centered on whether undocumented students should be allowed to pay lower in-state tuition rates at public schools, but as undocumented students become more visible and vocal about their status, some higher-priced private colleges are being pressed to consider policies to make tuition more affordable for them. ...

A study last year involving 447 colleges found that 57% of private and 29% of public schools provide undocumented students with aid. That suggests some schools "are trying to work with students to resolve this problem," says John Burkhardt, director of the National Forum on Higher Education for the Public Good, based at the University of Michigan. ...

For students at Dominican, the word is out. "When undocumented students apply to a school it's because they've already heard that it's welcoming," says freshman Arianna Salgado, 19, an undocumented student who was born in Mexico and has lived in the USA since age 6. "It makes you really comfortable with the whole application process."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/story/2012-05-07/college-policies-undocumented-students/54819830/1

I like how the article says some private institutions that are expensive are being pressured into considering making policies to make tuition more affordable for illegal immigrants. Interesting that they don't feel the same need to do so for poorer American students.

His Visa was approved in 1995. That's 17 years ago. Some lazy American needs to get off his/her dead a$$ and get this mans papers to him. I think he has been patient long enough.

Bullet:

Thank you! Someone finally READ the article!!!

Dan...

Glad to hear that. You voted for him to prove you weren't racist. Now you won't vote for him to prove you're not stupid.

But if you don't vote, regarless of how you vote, you can't complain about what you get.

I haven't voted for a "President" since Clinton, nothing worth voting for (that idiot cowboy from texas and the muslim from hawaii, really not much to have any confidence in, right??) And I CAN complain about it simply BECAUSE I am an American and entitled to my own free speech. If Hillary were running, I'd be first in line to vote for President.

@Karen: A wasted vote is a wasted vote. Sure, you can complain, but what irony. You can complain because people have voted. I haven't been thrilled with political candidates from mosquito control to president, but I vote anyway. It's more important now than ever, attempts have already been made to limit our freedom of speech. Citizens vs. FCC. A new issue pertains to domestic drones, do you think that might limit your freedom of speech/expression? There is too much at stake to just sit home because you don't like the candidates.

well said, Karen-1437069

How come everyone seems to forget republicans blocked everything Obama wanted to do. Its like a person releasing roaches into someone home and coming back for payment to get rid of them. I feel he doesn't need to be shipped yet. No to being a lawyer til he becomes legal, we dont really need more lawyers. We need engineers and other things like that.

If 6 million out of 11 million equals 95% one of us needs to go back to school.

I guess this proves that lawyers really are crooks.

I think any rehabilitated criminal that can pass the bar, after successfully graduating from law school. That would add say what 5 attorneys.

Hey people, give this guy a break...it is not his fault that the mindless nerds in the immigration have not done their jobs for years in his case. He looks to be a fine young man who has bettered himself with a fine education. Go after the real criminals who import tons of illegal drugs into this country; those who shoot our people around the border. Every damn one of you white boys (and I am one) is descended from immigrants....not to mention the fact that the majority of the west was once part of the country of Mexico. And remember his father is a naturalized citizen.

Just like the so called Government wait until it is to late then do something ! They need to dump the immigration laws off the books disband Homeland insecurity and let them take this country down like the government wants to !!

Yeah. Why even bother keeping anyone out? Illegally entering Mexicans, Al Qaeda... They're all just hard-working people trying to make the world a better place.

THX. Hold on. I going to take a break and have some Al Qaeda food. It tastes just like Mexican food. Cuz Mexicans, Al Qaeda they're all the same, right?

Oh, just wait till all the other countrys that actually DO own us get together to pull us down. All they have to do is get a couple of them (say, the united arab immirates or china) together and pull the financial rug out from under us and it's all over but the shouting.....

The economy already sucks and they wouldn't come if Americans would stop hiring them. You Karen have made a good point.

Finely, a logical post. This is the kind of post that should have been at the top of all the others. Go back...get your papers in order...come back. Simple. It's not like you need to hire a lawyer. Just saying...

And just to be clear, I am happy to have you here having gone through the legal process and show respect for my country and its laws. I wish you great continued success. Without knowing your plans, I hope that one day, I can also welcome you as a fellow citizen, although at this point in time, being illegal seems to be more beneficial to getting along in our country.

Lets just give our country away.

Alex2681980, shame on you for trying to fit in with all of these racist people. I bet your brown on the outside and trying to be white on the inside....those kind bring the most shame to people of color......be proud of where you came from. Don't follow all these haters!!!

@Michael: What a ridiculous post. Alex did it the legal way, he went through the process, he did what was required of him to be a legal citizen. He should be congradulated and respected because he thought our laws were something to be obeyed, and to become an American citizen the legal way is the only way. He, like many other Americans, are angered by the fact that to become an "american", many think it's ok to circumvent our immigration laws. You think Alex has some self hate disorder? Because he became a citizen legally, by following the rules? And why is it that citizens who want our constitution and laws respected are "racist"? What does wanting immigrants to follow our immigration laws have to do with race? You should be careful who you call racist and hater, when you finally do come across a real racist, no one will believe you because you have already labeled everyone a racist without any evidence. Remember the little boy who cried wolf.

If we had an amnesty program, what % would actually take us up on it?

WhatIsGoingOnHere! Thank you,

I am a US Citizen now by naturalization and America is my home.

I am not ashamed of my ethnicity ( mother white , father spanish, japanese descendent) neither do I think is a white or yellow or purple color issue. I just wanted to do things by the book, and foremost to be honest and overall make my parents proud. The day I took the oath as Citizen is one of the best days of my life.

Alex,

THANK YOU for doing it the right way and following the law of this great country.

I'm proud of you for what its worth and WELCOME.

Your an awesome example too.

Alex said:

The day I took the oath as Citizen is one of the best days of my life.

I agree wholeheartedly!They day they finally let me take the oath is one of the best days I'd ever had in my life. I knew I still had a long road ahead of me--had to find a job with the stigma of being a former illegal, had to work my way back home from where the deportation camp was, but I didn't care--after three years in deportation, finally being free was the sweetest feeling I'd ever had in my life.

I was internationally adopted as a child, never told before my parents passed away in a car accident. When I was 18 USCIS found during a routine record search that they'd lost/misplaced/misfiled my adoption paper, came to me asking for it, and since I had no idea what they were talking about they decided I was illegal and placed me in deportation--even after they found there was nowhere to deport me to because i was stateless/undocumented before the adoption--abandoned infant with no paperwork saying where, when, or who I was born to. I don't even know exactly how old I am, and I don't celebrate birthdays. I was told I'd stay in deportation until I gave them a copy of my adoption paper, so I spent three years writing letters to every courthouse in every state we'd ever lived in trying to find it. I finally did and they let me go.

That day was the best day of my life until I got married and held my oldest son for the first time.

@Alex, Amanda, and all the others who respect our country enough to become legal citizens: Two thumbs up!

@MOMMINNJ: NOPE. Remember.it's California, but it is also happening in Florida, the case is being heard in our court now, Jose Godinez-semperio, parents brought him here illegally, he went through our school system, college, law school, and is now fighting to be admitted to the Florida Bar. If I'm not mistaken there is another case in NY. I think these illegals are trying to set precedents in a court of law, once they "get their foot in the door", who knows what they'll try. They are already circumventing our laws by being here illegally, they want to push the envelope and see what other laws they can break.

XDm9mm- that's exactly what all mexicans are saying they're doing, be patient, it's happening. Same with Texas.

How ironic will it be if the guy decides to practice immigration law?

If he is truly qualified and educated, why wasn't some of that intelligence and learning devoted to getting his immigration status straightened out. I realize that the wheels of justice grind slowly, but even to me, 18 years sounds a bit like somebody didn't bother to hit the ball back into the other court when it came their way.

Hi, I think Illegal immigration should be stopped. This is not fair with everybody. Other countries have to go through all the process to get the visa and all the mexicans just cross the border. America should deport all the illegal mexicans back to mexico. They are taking over america. I think now they are in majority about 75% in america are mexicans. We have to do something about these people or they will destroy our country. We should deport all the mexican back to there country so that way we can get rid of them. I think the only reason Obama did allow to give them legall status because he knew they are in majority and he needs votes. If I would have choice, I would deport each and every Mexican back. Hope that helps.

How is it, that this man has time and knowledge to go thru law school, and it takes a lot just to get started and the process from from begging to end is endless!! So, how is it that he didn't have time or the knowledge to fill out the necessary paper work to become a legal citizen of the U.S.??? No, I don't think he should be given his licence, Until he is a legal citizen of the United States!

To Americanmans, does your mother know you are reading blogs. Please leave adult stuff to the grown ups. Although many of these posts don't look like they came from adults. Maybe some of your playground friends, huh?

Sue said:

If he is truly qualified and educated, why wasn't some of that intelligence and learning devoted to getting his immigration status straightened out. I realize that the wheels of justice grind slowly, but even to me, 18 years sounds a bit like somebody didn't bother to hit the ball back into the other court when it came their way.

No, 18 years sounds about right. See this clip from an immigration lawyer in Tucson, Rachel Wilson:

Mexico happens to be the most backlogged of all the countries on the bulletin. For example, next month the State Department will look at petitions of brothers and sisters of adult citizens that were filed in January 1994, but if you are from China, they are going to be getting to petitions filed in October 2001. “It's really complicated. When they are talking about the preferences they are talking about the degree to the relationship you have and what preference you are in the visa system. So then let's say you're Mexican and you have a brother or sister in the United States who petitions for you. Here we are in 2010, and they are processing petitions that were filed in 1994. So that's a wait of 16 years," Wilson says.

Did you see the other garbage headlines being released today?

There is one"poll" saying voters actually support Obama's treason, which of course is a total crock.

And there is another diversionary one pointing out that more Asians came into the U.S. last year than Hispanics.... of course ignoring all of the illegal immigrants however.

I feel sorry for all of the other servicemen overseas who are fighting for America only to know that Obama is giving it away to foreigners behind their backs.

There is one"poll" saying voters actually support Obama's treason, which of course is a total crock.

Treason? That's a strong word. Name the law or section of the Constitution that Obama has violated? For the record, I'm opposed to his action, especially since it doesn't seem to be limited to a certain point in all time (i.e. "eligible individuals in the country on June 1, 2012"). But, just because I don't agree with his actions doesn't make them illegal.

Pjam, have you been to NYC lately? NYC indeed has become one big Chinatown.

pjam09 - except that the new applicant would probably get an answer like "we are just filling a position that Americans don't want". That's how my boss got away with employing 3, one just one, but THREE illegal immigrants in our OFFICE. His excuse was that Americans won't do this work so I had to hire people that will. Bull! who WOULDN'T want a job that paid 50k a year to sit behind a desk?????

We are, again, being lead by the media. Telling us that there were more asian immigrants last year than mexican, come ON, most of us are cattle but not stupid ALL the time. We usually just follow along blindly doing whatever the media is selling today all the while grumbling about it. Did any of you go to the protest in Arizona rallying behind their governor? I did.

BTW, my maiden name is PEREZ! I'm am AMERICAN first, last, ALWAYS. no mexican to it!

I am an American, of Polish and German backgrounds, and all of my ancestors came through the required channels, and once citizenship was achieved were extremely proud to be Americans, serving in the military in WWI, WWII, Korea and even some serving with the Union Army in the Civil War.....however, they were all Americans of German or Polish decent, not Polish or German/Americans....We enjoyed our cultural heritage in our homes, communities and churches, willingly sharing it with others who were interested. But at no point in time did we expect others to adopt our heritage, eat our foods, speak our languages...The proper language for getting along in the US is English, the language of our Constitution.

Sue-3329001. I think it's wonderful that your family adopted the US as their own. That diversity has made this country great. But had today's policies existed back in your ancestors time, you'd probably be speaking Polish or German as your native language (not that there's anything wrong with that).

Today's immigration process bares little resemblance to the process that helped build this country.

@Barry: Really???? How about the oath he took to defend the Constitution and all the laws of our land? This is the 2nd major law that he has instructed his cabinet to NOT apply or defend (the 1st was DOMA). Since when does the highest office in the USA get to pick and choose which laws to enforce?

@trinitygal: To your last question: It happens when the president really doesn't like what our country or constitution stands for. So now he has to pander for votes. And to do that, he will circumvent our existing immigration laws and whatever other law he feels is getting in his way. Remember, he can issue an executive order, even though as a candidate he said he would not do so with the immigration law if elected president. He is the only president that I can recall that has tried to divide this country (and he has been successful so far) into white vs minority, straight vs gay, wealthy vs poor, (and the income ceiling for "wealthy" has been decreased several times), republican vs democrat, legal vs illegal, haves vs have nots. If you read through the posts here today or any other day, he has an army of slogan spewers who throw out the words "racist, hater, bigot" when someone doesn't agree with what they believe. I think he's scary, I'm not sure what his real motivation is or what he would like to see as his true endpoint for our country, or exactly how far he will go to obtain it.

That's how my boss got away with employing 3, one just one, but THREE illegal immigrants in our OFFICE.

If you don't want him to get away with it, report him to the INS.

This is the 2nd major law that he has instructed his cabinet to NOT apply or defend (the 1st was DOMA). Since when does the highest office in the USA get to pick and choose which laws to enforce?

Hmm ... you must be a Fox News viewer. Regarding DOMA, he instructed the Justice Department not to defend DOMA. The Justice Department still enforces it and the administration abides by it. The two are very different actions. If you have proof to the contrary, please provide it.

As for his actions regarding immigration, he is acting within the discretion granted to him my law. Don't believe me? Find any leading Republican member of Congress who will say that his actions violate the law! You won't, because he didn't.

What about all the republicans shipping your jobs over sea's lol. This country might have lots of mexicans but it will be part of china soon if we keep going the way we are.

proudamericanveteran said:

Lets see. He had the time to study to earn a law degree but never had the time to take a test to earn citizenship. Here is a shocker.... the freakin exam is about the things he learned in Law School.

Did you miss this part of the article?

Garcia, who attended law school and college in California, does not fit in that group because he is over the age limit of 30, but he is nonetheless overjoyed for those who do. He has been waiting nearly 18 years for a visa, though his petition for it was approved in 1995, the bar said.

“That’s the state of our immigration system … our immigration system is broken,” Garcia told msnbc.com, estimating he will have to wait another five years for the visa. “It’s really painful.”

He has to have the visa before he can apply for citizenship.

Apparently you can't read, his PETITION for a visa was approved, which is appaling enough since he was already residing in the country illegally. That is like robbing a bank and then asking the manager for a home loan in the process.

"his petition for it was approved in 1995"

Hahaha! I have never heard such a perfect analogy! Good rebuttal.

Mabe he left it in hawai

Thank you for pointing out the obvious in this article. I believe all of an article should be read before commenting on it. And let me point out another issue...it clearly says that issuance of the law license would in no way assure him of employment in the US. Tell me whose job he is taking that all the posters are afraid of him being here? Except for Native Americans, we all came here as immigrants...

Gena..."Except for Native Americans, we all came here as immigrants..."

FYI - humans are not indigenous to the Americas. Everyone here, are there ancestors, migrated here from somewhere else.

Yes Gena, there are no such thing as "native Americans." Some came before others but we all came from somewhere else.

@Gena: Our families all came here as LEGAL immigrants. There is a difference.

pjam09

Apparently you can't read, his PETITION for a visa was approved, which is appaling enough since he was already residing in the country illegally. That is like robbing a bank and then asking the manager for a home loan in the process.

Good analogy...

It also makes me puke when a guy like this has the gall to state: "That’s the state of our immigration system … our immigration system is broken,” Garcia told msnbc.com,"

First of all - where does he get off saying "our" immigration system when he is not even an American citizen?

Second, if the system is overburdened it's because of people like you and your criminal parents who break the law by overstaying their visas.

Go home. We are getting sick of hearing about the plight of illegal immigrants. We have enough problems of our own to deal with.