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Subscribe to RSSDirector Kirby Dick and producer Amy Ziering share details from their documentary, "The Invisible War," which looks into the thousands of rapes and sexual assaults in the military. Wes Moore joins the Morning Joe panel to continue the conversation.
In “The Invisible War,” a new documentary on sexual assault in the military, service people repeatedly share a version of the same story. Subject after subject describes a harrowing assault, the intimidation and retaliation that often followed, and the failure of an institution to hold perpetrators accountable for their crimes.
“It was uncanny, chilling and disturbing,” Amy Ziering, a producer for the film, told msnbc.com. “I would do interview after interview and these women who never met each other and served in different branches would tell almost identical stories.”
Last year, 3,192 sexual assaults, from unwanted sexual touching to rape, were reported across all branches of the military. Based on anonymous surveys of active-duty service members conducted in 2010, however, the Department of Defense says the number of incidents was closer to 19,000.
Women aren't the only ones affected. Of the 65,000 veterans who sought treatment in 2009 for conditions related to military sexual trauma, a term that also includes sexual harassment, 40 percent were men.
“The Invisible War” opens on Friday in theaters in New York, Washington, D.C., Los Angeles and San Francisco in the wake of significant changes to the way the military investigates and handles allegations of sexual assault.
In the past six months, new policies have given victims the right to quickly transfer out of a unit and have access to advocates who will explain the prosecution process. Cases will soon be handled by higher-ranking officers and the Department of Defense has proposed creating special victims units staffed with trained legal personnel.
Critics are encouraged by these policies, but say more needs to be done to deter sexual assault and transform the culture of intimidation and retaliation.
The women, and men, in “The Invisible War,” appear as casualties of that culture.
Kori Cioca, who served in the Coast Guard, said that her chain of command threatened to court-martial her after she reported being raped by a commanding officer in December 2005. The charge, she was told, would be for lying. The officer admitted the attack, but denied the rape. His punishment was 30 days of base restriction and loss of pay. The attack left Cioca with a broken jaw, nerve damage to her face and post-traumatic stress disorder.
Ariana Klay, a first lieutenant in the Marine Corps who served in Iraq, said she was raped by a senior officer and his civilian friend in August 2010. After reporting the assaults, Klay said the subsequent harassment and retaliation led her to attempt suicide. When the Marine Corps investigated her case, Klay was told she had invited harassment by wearing make-up and regulation-length skirts. One of Klay's attackers was court-martialed, but convicted of adultery and indecent language -- not rape.
Trina McDonald, a seaman stationed at a remote naval station in Alaska, said she was repeatedly raped and drugged by members of the military police beginning in 1989. She did not report the assaults since those that were involved in the rapes, including higher-ranking officers, were the individuals to whom she would have reported.
'Inherent conflict of interest'
In April, Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta tried to end that dynamic by issuing a directive that the decision to pursue prosecution be handled by a colonel or officer of equivalent rank, a move military officials hope will provide greater accountability.
Previously, a service member’s local unit commander would evaluate the charges and determine whether to pursue disciplinary action -- a system that led to limited prosecutions. Of the 3,192 reports in 2011, only cases on 1,518 subjects were brought forward for disciplinary review last year.
Anu Bhagwati, executive director of the human rights organization Service Women's Action Network and a former captain in the Marine Corps, said that the reluctance of unit commanders to investigate claims is not always based on “malicious attitudes.” Instead, “sometimes there’s just sort of like this misplaced benevolence.” The accused, for example, might have a family and lifelong career, both of which a commander is loath to endanger when it might be difficult to prove an assault. “But what about the victim?” Bhagwati said. “Who’s protecting her?”
Rep. Niki Tsongas, D-Mass, a member of the House Armed Services Committee who has sponsored legislation expanding legal protections for sexual assault victims, told msnbc.com that the move to make high-ranking officers responsible for investigations is an important first step. Without an increase in successful prosecutions, though, Tsongas remains unconvinced that the chain of command should keep its power to determine whether cases are investigated.
Critics, including the filmmakers of “The Invisible War,” believe that the decision to investigate and prosecute must lie completely outside of the chain of command, citing that a colonel may still know or have friendships with the perpetrator or his commander.
“You don’t want to have an inherent conflict of interest where you’re trying to determine if rape occurred,” said Susan Burke, a Washington, D.C., lawyer who has filed a suit on behalf of some of the women who appear in the documentary. Burke would prefer if the decision to shut down rape and sexual assault investigations was made outside of the military by the civilian justice system, or if the chain of command were entirely removed from the process.
Burke’s firm has interviewed more than 400 service members and represents 48 plaintiffs in three different complaints that seek to give service members the right to sue the military for civil damages related to sexual assault.
A 1950 Supreme Court decision prevents service members from bringing torts against the U.S. for injuries sustained during duty, a doctrine Burke said is outdated and was never intended to apply to something like sexual assault. If lawsuits were permitted, Burke believes that would create an institutional deterrent that would ameliorate the underreporting and under-prosecuting of cases.
Even with such recourse, changing the culture around sexual assault in the military will require multiple fronts. “It’s going to have to come from a lot of directions at once,” Tsongas said. “It can't just be from top down or bottom up.”
'We owe it to the public'
“The Invisible War” is critical of the military for not doing more to transform that dynamic sooner, focusing in particular on the Department of Defense's Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office (SAPRO). That unit is charged with overseeing the department's sexual assault policy and providing training and victim-assistance programs.
Until last year, SAPRO's director was a civilian, which critics felt was indicative of the military's lack of urgency around dealing with sexual assault.
Some have criticized the program's training material as too focused on the victim taking responsibility for preventive actions. In the film, a clip from a sexual assault prevention training video portrays a scenario in which a woman is reminded to go out at night with a buddy.
“I was disappointed that film did not accurately portray what SAPRO has done in the past 12 to 18 months,” said Major General Mary Kay Hertog, who was appointed as director in 2011.
Hertog, who called the film “gut-wrenching,” said the office had worked intensely on implementing the new policies, expediting transfers for victims, expanding legal assistance through trained advocates, and developing a standard for document retention so victims can make records available to Veterans Affairs for claims related to an assault.
By October 13, sexual assault response coordinators, which act as a single point of contact for victims, will be credentialed specifically in victim assistance. She said the office was reviewing training materials across the services in order to determine a gold standard. “The training we do is not victim-blaming whatsoever,” she said.
Hertog, who is retiring this month, said she is confident her successor, Major General Gary Patton, will be aggressive in implementing new policies.
The Department of Defense, she said, is committed to investigating perpetrators and removing them from the military: “We owe it to the public to protect their children.”
Rebecca Ruiz is a reporter at msnbc.com and a 2011-2012 Rosalynn Carter Mental Health Journalism Fellow. Follow her on Twitter here.
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Truly a shame. These men and women represent our country - what kind of example are we setting if we let the predators off with a slap on the wrist and shift the blame to the victim? My work place is heavily intertwined with the military (a Colonel or above is always in charge of our district) even as a civilian agency, and I know the mere thought of their comrades going outside their mission and tainting the name of the armed forces as a whole enrages them.
Rapist.
@Alex - "the mere thought of their comrades"....blah, blah, blah -
Absolutely not true!
The reason that sexual assualt is epidemic in the US military is because of a code of silence. Men and women of real honor would have the courage and integrity to go after their fellow soldiers or superiors, rather than adopting a 'see no evil' response to criminal acts. Until this collective cowardly response is replaced with true bravery and adherence to principle regardless the cost is the rule rather than the exception, then the whole of the military stands justifiably impugned.
So Jerry blah, blah, blah, you're that familiar with Alex's workplace that you can discount what he writes as "absolutely not true"? How do you know what his workplace is like? Our culture elevates sexuality to the highest level of the human experience, proclaims that it's all good and nothing is really wrong, and then complains when people act like animals. Only with a common morality can a culture stand united and uphold a higher standard, which is what you seem to imply, but that doesn't mean that Alex's workplace is already achieving.
While sexual assaults are an issue in the military, to call them epidemic is an overstatement. The statistics that have been published (sorry, I can't find a link right now) show that is is no more prevalent in the military than in society in general. I have no doubt that the way the military handles the charges of sexual assault could stand some improvement, but it sounds like they are making a lot of progress in that area. I am also personally aware of one case where a woman filed sexual assault charges in retaliation against a superior because she did not get a promotion she thought she deserved and blamed a mediocre fitrep from that superior for that failure to get promoted. Every case needs to be thoroughly investigated, but we must not fall into the mindset that exists in the civilian world today of the man being guilty until he can prove his innocence. In the civilian world, most people have the man convicted simply based on the woman's accusation before any evidence has even been presented. We can not allow that mindset to take over the military or we will end up destroying a lot of people's careers unjustly. Unfortunately for the women who actually are assaulted, there are many women who use bogus charges of assault as a weapon against superiors that they see as not helping them enough to advance their careers and get promotions. They will level charges in response to a less than stellar fitrep to get even and try and help their chance of promotion by tainting the reliability of the fitrep. I am not saying that this happens all the time or that some superiors are not above giving a bad fitrep in retaliation for spurned advances, as that definitely happens as well. I am just saying that we need to be sure that whatever procedures are put in place are fair to all parties and do not place too much emphasis on the word of the accuser to the exclusion of requiring actual evidence before convicting someone. Sexual assault should not be tolerated in the military any more than it is in civil society. I also think that when it a commanding officer or someone in a position of authority uses that authority pressure someone into unwanted sexual relationships that the punishment should be even more severe. That said, I think that the process put in place to investigate and prosecute these cases needs to be fair to both the accuser and the accused and not become like the current civilian mindset where the accused is guilty until proven innocent regardless of any evidence, or more importantly, lack thereof.
Kind of wonder what would happen when the enemy gets a hold of our female soldiers. Don't think that any future enemy will be waiting for the sexual assault charges. Female soldiers need to be tough, if they are going to hang with the boys, we can not weaken or discourage our strong all male force; complaining is not a good formula to win wars. What is to stop a female soldier from claiming sexual assault when given a job that she does not want to do? The armforces probably need a separate command to handle the crying, and investigate serious cases.
It is dishonorable, period.
Wow. You sure have it figured out. How many sexual abuse cases are you responsible for, since you think its ok?
You speak volumes of yourself.
I wish I was surprised by this behavior but I'm not. You take a large group of young, aggressive testosterone driven males in a closed, high stress environment and then insert a small percentage of women into it, this is bound to happen. Not only that but the hierarchy is almost entirely male, who generally side with men in rape cases unless there is overwhelming evidence. Also there is a small percentage of women that cry wolf to get back at a boyfriend that cheated on them or whatever dumb reason that ruins it for every other women that it really happens to. On top of all of that, all you have to do is watch Full Metal Jacket to see what training is like. They really do talk like that. It really is that harsh and it needs to be. You're training people to kill other people who are trying to kill them. Soldiers are not saints and some of the worst criminals make great soldiers.
There are many reasons that militaries around the world have tried to keep women out and this is one of them. Officers know that there are many men in their units that are less than admirable people. However if they went around kicking out every member that did something like this our military would lose a lot of soldiers.
I just watched a story on this exact subject on MSNBC. One of the victims said that when she told her commander he responded to her and I'm paraphrasing "What is this? You're the 3rd woman this week to complain about this. Are you in some kind of conspiracy?" It probably happens more than even this documentary lets on. You know what, men get raped too and they are even more tight lipped about it than women. It's in the culture. To get rid of it you would literally have to completely start over with the military.
The fact is this; senior ranking military officers WILL continue to get away with sexual assault and worse. Look at Air Force Major General Fiscus, US Air Force JAG Officer. He had sex with more than a dozen women-enlisted, officer, and civilians. His punishment? His was forced to retire as a Colonel. This means he will collect FULL military retirement priviledges; pay and medical for the rest of his life. His retirement pay will be in access of $150,000 annually for sexually abusing women under his command. Protecting senior officers WILL continue, don't be surprised.
Sounds something analogous to the Catholic Church where the predators were protected by the hierarchy.
I served in the USMC with honor and I won’t be silence. If I see that someone is raping a women or a girl, is yelling “HELP ME, PLEASE” just because they have the power over these, whether oversea or in combat, is wrong. How many women were rape during WW I, WW II, Korean War, Vietnam and to the present time. These individual are service member, to serve and to protect our nation, most of them are married. They must do time for the crime.
G2020:
Do you hear yourself? You might as well have said that raping these women is almost like Training, that it will make them tougher. You also implied that to even report it is wrong or something. You basically said that the peron wrong is the victim. IMO...sick sick sick.
I have been serving for 21 years, in that time I have seen women use the system to thier advantage thousands of times. Every time a woman got passed over for a deplyment or an assignment, they would instantly go to IG, or thier EO representative and make a complaint. Now, the Army is just like any other organization, civilian or government, we are all human and thier will always be that bad egg, but for every 100 complaints made by women against men citing sexual harrasment as the cause, 99 were thrown out due to lack of evidence. The women are then left alone without punishment for wrongly accusing thier fellow soldiers because the regulation is based strickly on "perception". If I perceive that you were looking at me in a sexual way, even if you weren't, I can hide behind that. The point is, these occurances happen everywhere, not just in the military. To say that there is an epedemic in the military is pure Hollywood propaganda and greed to get you to pay to watch the movie.
Wow. I am stunned. How dare any of you dismiss these woman. G2020, you're a scumbag dude. We are human beings not animals. Give men more credit than that. If any "man" can force themselves on a woman then there is certainly something wrong with them. I would kick the crap out of ANY one who I saw forcing themselves on anybody. Especially a woman. That is some sick twisted behavior. What kind of person could get off on that? Be a real man and just snap one off and take a nap. Unbelievable.
Army MSG,
I hear what you are saying. I'm sure you are right for the most part. Woman do use sexual harrassment and there kids for self gain. I have no doubt about that. I'm thinking about this Kori girl who had her face smashed in while being raped. Also the atmosphere of dismissal and intimidation that some of these woman endure is disgusting. Guys have it easy I think. They are the ones in control for the most part. I know that there are false acusations that could tarnish carreers. Woman that are found guilty of that should be punished severely because it's a really malicious thing to do. But to say that it's mostly false is hard for one person to say when there are four branches of the military with millions of personel.
Every Soldiers concern is how do we trust those who dont communicate with me? The lack of communication in our ranks turns victims to hold on to their nightmare forever. Sexual assault has increased and its remedy is not to have additional classes to check the block but assist law enforcement and our legal system in convicting those who violate the Soldiers. Too many times commands are only looking at their careers and not the well being of their command climate. For some oddly reason women are blamed for being assaulted and raped and men never report it. I ask of Soldiers to report any situation to law enforcement immediately. We are a recovering Armed Forces and we need every service member to be prepared for our next mission and assist our SEC DEF in eliminating those regardless of the rank and position from our ranks. Don't debate about going to the hospital - don't shower. Go directly to the emergency room and get the help and give the facts to CID.
Take care
I believe these women should directly sue the personnel involved, especially a commanding officer, their pensions should be turned over to the victims if found guilty, why put it on the Tax payers.
This is mind boggling especially when you have commanding officers and leaders as the rapers, brings new meaning to honor in the military..
I like it when women dress sexy and they should be able to without being harassed, it is a special part of living like watching a flower bloom.
ARMY MSG:
You made some good points and I am sure what you said is 100% accurate. The Military is, is the end, just a cross-section of society and there will be all types of people. Just like any organization.
However, we also know that the Military will cover up anything that puts Soldiers in a bad light, especially the Officers. And in many cases, they will destroy the victim to make sure of it. We both know this is true. But like you said, in the end the Military is no different than any other large organization. Theres always going to be bad apples and, well, the Military is no different.
But I think the environment needs to be dealt with. I think the offenders really need to be dealt with. I think they should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law and sentenced to the Maximum possible sentence.
Look, right or not, Military personel are held to a higher standard. (Just like the Police.) Theres a reason why the word "Honor" is used so much in the Military. That word loses all meaning if the people who are supposed to enforce it.....mock it.
i never beleived that women should have been allowed to be deployed/placed in a combat area. i could write a huge response to this but ill make it short, the military ruled heavily on the side of women, all one had to do was cry harassment and the person accussed got screwed.
dissapointed and ashamed - You think men have it easy? Wow, that's the most asinine thing I've read today. Obviously you missed the part where 40% of the complaints were men. In the military it swings both ways in just about everything. If anything males have it worse since we're held to a code of silence, expected to be much more tough, and less emotional than any woman in the military.
As a man and a veteran I would find it difficult if not impossible to go to my PL or a 30 year veteran 1SGT with more commendations than I can name to complain about something like this. That's just in a combat support BDE, lets not get started on 11B or anything that's an actual combat MOS.
This isn't any more prevalent than it is in the civilian world but the "new" knowledge is shocking to most and therefor it becomes blown out of proportion. Most likely the majority of these incidents occur in the AIT TRADOC environment due to the train hard - party hard attitude of most recruits. Furthermore, it's mostly a result of drunken hotel parties in mixed training environments where adultery is more common. Leading to morning-after regret and complaints. Though there are plenty of incidents of actual rape and sexual assault also.
While you're in the TRADOC phase you're completely new to the ways of the military and anyone with a campaign hat or anyone E5 and above is like god to you. They are not approachable in any way, you are scared sh**less of them. A fresh private doesn't have the ability to go to an NCO and talk about something so personal. Not that they can't, they just don't think they can. Parade rest and at-ease aren't the way anyone envisions themselves discussing being rape or sexually assaulted. Furthermore the Army instituted the 'battle buddy' system years ago where any place you go, no matter what it's for or who you're talking to, you have to have someone of the same gender and approximate rank with you. This obviously creates another issue when needing to discuss something like rape or sexual assault. Yes, the rule can be waived but yet again, IET soldiers don't know this.
There is a different mindset and culture in the military most will never understand and each branch, MOS, BDE, Bn, and Co is different. It's easy to just say it needs to change but the sad truth is that's going to be a lot more difficult than most think. Most soldiers are good so don't let sensationalized news stories like this make you think every soldier is a potential predator. That's simply not true.
"The armforces probably need a separate command to handle the crying, and investigate serious cases." Get it right, I do not agree that it is OK for women to get rape in the armforces, they have a right to be protected just a any other. We are practically sending a mostly all male force to go to hell and kill the devil and his body guard, it is not pretty nor easy. We are trowing a wrench into an well oiled fighting machine, it now has serious issues flying out, and this current film is one of them. If robots are doing all the fighting, and no foot soldiers are needed, it could be a different situation since everyone can take a seat behind a desk.
I would like to say that this is NOT overstated .I was in the army in 1971 to 1973 and i know of a lot about this because i was a victum . I still cannot say the real word for it . I was orderd by the laundry sargent to help him . We went down to a barracks and started to get the laundry off some beds then he opened a door to the back in the barracks and ordered me in to get the rest of the laundry. Now when i entered he handed me a beer . Since it was allmost dinner time i thought we were takeing a break . In those times they had a beer machine in the mess hall and you could have a beer with your dinner. So being a country boy i had no street smarts and didnt know what was going on . I had never been away from home and was drafted and was scared because if we didnt do what the sargents and officers told us we would get an article 15 and that ment we could go to jail for 6 monthe and lose up to one half of our pay. Now what i thought was a break turned into a night mare .He had to of put some kind of date rape drug in the beer and i didnt see him . I can bare;y remember getting back to my barracks . I do remember getting into bed and dont remember after after that except i found that they had shipped me to germany . I dont even remember the flight. Now before this happened i was in the top 10 of my class in mechanics school .Then i found out about a year ago that i didnt even graduate. NOW i go to the VETERANS HOSPITOL and go through a lot in group sessions over this and have finealey went to one on one sessions with the counselers. I will never get over this and the sad thing is it didnt happen from our eniemy it was our own people . I keep haveing nervies breakdowns over it and wake up in the night screaming and sweat running down my face . I see hundreads comeing in for the same thing all the time .I think about suicide a lot.
G2020 - Too bad there will always be a need for boots on the ground.
JS...it amazes me how over and over again I see posts from you in which you are stating your ...completely unfounded opinions... as fact... you have NO more idea about what is right and wrong in the legal field...than you do about how many rapes occur in the military. I just laugh when i see blowhards like you....probably a fat, overweight, middle aged man with no life...who has obviously been rejected by women many times...... who just sits behind his computer all day feeling important.. because he knows how to type. I'm sure most people, like me, see from your ongoing posts that all you ever state here is your lame opinions based on no facts whatsoever.. and... just laugh at you. For anyone who thinks that just because a person can type out a big, long paragraph they MUST know what they are talking about....well JS is proof that they don't.
Wow Army MSG...so your whole statement was just putting down women...saying that they are all wrong and lying and abusing the system. So, in your "ohso educated opinion" NO woman who says she's been raped, in the military, is telling the truth? Thank you! You just proved this WHOLE article...the WHOLE premise of all of this...that women are raped, abused, beaten up and they have NO recourse...because guys... like you... scummy guys... like you...will defend a rapist till the very end in the military and just condemn ALL women as evil and lying. Thank you, you did more in your one prejudiced, hate filled, ignorant post... to help shed a light on what the military is really like for women...than that movie and any post I or anyone else who believes this is prevalent, could do!
I'm curious, have you served in the military? Have you ever served with women? Have you ever worked for a female NCOIC? If so, you wouldn't likely make stupid blanket comments. Women are perfectly capable of being tough, but that doesn't mean they should be subject to sexual assault to prove their toughness. Not sure if that's what you were implying but it kind of sounded like it. As to false accusations of sexual assault being used as a weapon, I'm pretty sure it does happen, but it's rare. Not nearly as common as actual sexual assault. By the way, the penalty for bring a false accusation against a fellow service member is not something to take lightly.
Having a little difficulty keeping up with the topic? We're talking about sexual assault (you know...assault and battery...rape), not sexual harassment.
Army MSG-
Here's the big thing that you are missing with the "99 out of 100 are dismissed for lack of evidence" critique:
LACK OF EVIDENCE DOES NOT MEAN IT DIDN'T HAPPEN
Rape and sexual assault are different from other types of crimes. When you have a theft, you have clear evidence that a crime happened-items that should be in one place are not there. When you have a murder, you have someone who is dead who should not be, and all the attendant evidence about how they died by other than natural causes. When those crimes are reported, the first thought of the investigator is not "did a murder actually occur?" it's "how do we link it to this suspect?"
Rape and sexual assault, especially as they occur in the military between two people who work together and live in very close quarters, do not give that immediate clue that a crime has happened. The fact that the two people were in the same place at the same time does not mean rape occurred. Even evidence of intercourse is not evidence of rape. Oftentimes the only evidence of rape is that the woman says it happened. This does not mean she is lying. It's simply the nature of the crime. So a dismissal for lack of evidence is about the prosecutor not being able to prove it. But by the same token, a prosecutor cannot DISPROVE her claims either, so it would not be proper to charge her with filing a false report.
And do not give me that weak sauce that if it truly was a rape, she would have fought back and there would be all kinds of evidence of a vicious fight. If you were alone on a street, and four guys with knives and bats "asked" for your wallet, you would probably give it to them to avoid the losing the fight and getting horrorifically beaten, possibly killed. What would you say if the cops then said "well, if it truly was a mugging, you would have put up more of a fight and we would see more evidence. Therefore, we can only conclude you gave these men your wallet willingly."
I'm about to bring up an ugly subject concerning this topic. Right now we are talking about military men rapeing lower rank women. There is only so much outcry in the media. Now with out of the closet gays in the military, how long will it be before high ranging gay officers will be rapeing enlisted men? I'm not trying to be homophobic. My point is it will hit the media like a sh#t storm and have every anti-gay in the military screaming 'I told you so"!!! Right now women being raped is "in the news". When men become involved it'll be front page headlines. Women are still second class in the armed forces. I'm glad the military has opened it's eyes. I'm just saying when/if this happens the outcry will be an explosion compared to what has been happening to women since they got into the military. Women rape..unacceptable. Men rape..????? How will this go down.
I would imagine it would be kept locked up, but has a woman ever fought off a sexual attack by a fellow serviceman with deadly force and killed him? I've never heard of this ever happening. You would think a man attacking a woman who may be armed would have caught a bullet by now.
Right-on justross:
The turning of a blind-eye in our military regarding this
repugnant crime must stop, every member must stand-up and fight for what is
right and defend their fellow members, both on and off the battle field regardless
of how it may look from the out-side. Call it PC, or call it what you will, but
those in the upper ranks need to protect their people, it is incumbent upon the
higher ranks as well as every member to always strive for the highest standards
entrusted in them to care for one another especially the junior ranks.
This notion that the accused will be adversely affected by
charges that are without merit is bunk, those that are found to be innocent of any involvement can be protected as well,
via assignment. The main point here is innocent, not some point that is based
on inconsequentiality because of prior relations or timeline, if you were involved
then your guilty, not innocent.
There needs to be a major cultural shift in our military. Today’s
service members do not reflect or represent our society at all. There are many
short comings in the way of recruitment with regards to demographics which is compounding
the services singular character and becoming islands of self-interest to
protect GOLDEN career members at the cost of all else; Baretta.
The military is a hired killing machine how does a female expect to do that if she cannot kill to protect herself,that should be inborn instinct,I would kill any creep that tried to hurt me. you know like standing my ground,I am sure that they weapons.
John, shut down the false bravado. It just makes you look ignorant. Scratch that. It doesn't make you look ignorant. You are ignorant.
First on the topic of your own willingness to "kill any creep that tried to hurt you." If you knew anything about fighting or violence, you would know that some fights you will win, and some fights you will lose, and some fights your best hope is to just escape with minimal damage. You don't learn to pick your fights, you wind up in the ground pretty quick, and you do nobody any good there. Any soldier that failed to learn how to size up their odds of victory doesn't make it much beyond E-1.
Second on your "I'm sure that they (have?) weapons"-clearly you've never been on a military base or around military personnel. Unless you are deployed in a combat zone. or working as an MP, military personnel don't walk around their bases carrying a weapon at all times. In fact, it's against regulations on most state-side bases to be carrying loaded weapon. How do you think Major Hassan managed to kill so many people at Ft. Hood?
Third, on your assumption that the military is just a "hired killing machine" and that supposedly every single person in it is supposed to be a proficient killer. For every infantry soldier that must kill with his rifle, knife, or bare hands, there are 10 soldiers that working support roles. That's the nature of the modern military. They are working logistics to make sure guns, grub, and boots are where they need to be. They are working intel billets, analyzing satellite photos and radio intercepts. They are providing medical care in hospitals and in surgical tents. They are repairing Humvees, helicopters, airplanes, and drones. Heck, if you want to talk Navy and Air Force, with the small exception their special forces contingents, most of those servicemen and women will never be within 5 miles of the enemies they kill, and their chief responsibility is simply running or maintaining massive machinery that makes our armed forces so impressive.
So stop pretending the military are all cold blood killers, and stop pretending you are one too.
I was taught when I was in basic and when I went to Korea that I was in the military to kill and if someone is trying to hurt me I take it that the person is an enemy.
I read where the females in Iraq was afraid to go to the latrine in fear of being raped ,one even had her bladder burst and she died for holding her water to long,and I do not believe that they would put soldiers in a combat zone with their weapons locked away some place.
I could lower my intelligence down to your level and call you ignorant also but I wouldlike to think that I have evolved far enough from my monkey ancestors to hold a decent conversation with out such name calling.
I know some fights are lost but it is better to lose fighting than die not fighting or getting raped by some crepe that has not developed from his monkey stage.
As a Veteran I find this type of behavior aberrant and perpetrators should suffer consequences to the fullest extent of the law.
It may not be all that aberrant, or at least not unusual. The military is a cross-section of society like any other, but discretions tend to get more publicity so we know more about them. Assuming troops are no different from any other Americans, how much more rape is going on out there that isn't reported to police?
I remember several awareness programs about sexual assault at my last few bases. It's a serious and widespread problem, but I doubt it's just a military one. If we take all these military cases and extrapolate them to the general population, the scope of the problem is truly staggering.
Honor Above All Else.
Simple solution: narrow down the definition of rape so that there needs to be proof of bodily harm being inflicted or threatened. Anything less severe is sexual assault, which must not include consensual sex that one of them regrets the next morning.
And obviously remind everyone that it's perfectly fine to defend yourself with lethal force. Rape is a very serious crime and you're allowed to do anything necessary to prevent yourself from being raped, which includes killing the attacker.
I like the way you think.....
(Voted Up!)
Spartan - That's roughly the definition now. Rape requires penetration, anything less is sexual assault or harassment. It gets more complicated though, you can force someone to willingly have sex with you and its harassment since they did it willingly. For example: I will do X if you don't have sex with me, or you don't get X if you don't do something sexual. You do it but don't want to. That's sexual harassment since you willingly did it even though you didn't want to. Personally I feel that should be classified as rape but it's not.
Now, my wife lost her virginity at 17 via rape. She wasn't beaten though. It was however, against her will and she felt things would be worse if she didn't let him do it, though he didn't directly threaten her. Just forcefully had his way. By your wanted definition that wasn't rape - to me that just seems idiotic to an extreme. It was no less traumatic emotionally and in some ways, physically, than a brutally violent rape. So why shouldn't he have the same punishment instead of the 4 years in jail he got after he did it to another woman?
To paraphrase my post above, requiring that rape must have proof of bodily harm is ridiculous and places fault on the victim's shoulders for not fighting back. It would be like requiring proof that you fought back against an armed mugger in order to conclude that he actually robbed you as opposed to you simply handing over your wallet. A victim choosing to be simply raped instead of beaten and raped should not be a reason to not call it rape.
It's disgusting that so many men in the military have decided that any female serving along side them as an equal was put there for the sole purpose of his rape toy. Sure, break her jaw and give her nerve damage and then say she wanted it, everyone will believe you, because they all do it too.
I lived at Fort Campbell for a little over a year and I would say based on FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE and no HERESY that around 75% of the men there are perverts trying to get their eager fingers on any kind of woman flesh, they don't care how....it doesn't even matter if they're married or not. My best friend's husband served in the 101st Airborne, cheated on her many times with a commanders daughter, of course nothing happened to him because daddy made it all go away. I met a few women serving, they warned me where not to go at night and to always have a cell phone out ready to dial 911.
The military is like prison sometimes. Yes, the men are going to go after their female comrades, especially those are the only women that they have access to.
hmm cell phone?? Tamara I hope you got something more then a cell phone 8) like 3 inch .45 that will stop any man from pulling his prick and attacking you with it..
It disgusts me that this kind of violence is going on in the military.
First off I'd like to say as a service member that such a gross and baseless assertion states wonders about you. You clearly are not educated on this topic and are letting your personal experience and background guide your logic. I'm in the Military Police and I can tell you that there is SO much more to this than this pos msnbc article puts forth. First off the victim has to go for help. Even if they do there are multiple ways of seeking help, some of which are restrictive/private in which case we(military police) will not even get notified of the occurrence and as such can't do crap about the situation! Now I understand that the military wants many options for a victim(SARC, MP, Command, Chaplain, ACS, Medical...) so as ensure that the individual has some way that is available for them to be comfortable to get help, however this also hinders and hurts the military too. If an individual goes via a restricted reporting route, then they will get the help they need, they will stay anonymous, but no legal action will ever be taken because Jane Doe can't press charges especially if the Military Police are never notified! Also that 19,000 number has been acknowledged as a wild ****ing guess, which pisses me the hell off! I mean how would anyone like it if their company where they worked had X number of incidents then decided that obviously, and rightly, not all had been reported so lets multiply that number by SIX! This whole thing pisses me off! I hate the whole issue, and the cases are a pain! I don't know how many times we've had a reported rape, then the victim refuses a rape kit, or has already showered(EVERY service member, even males, know not too if this occurs) and then a week later gets pissed that we aren't charging the accused! Guess what? You destroyed the case, SO WE CAN'T! It sucks knowing that guilty or not the incident will never see it's day in court because of such! Rant over, I have shift in a few hours.....
there are 1.4 million of you the 19,000 is probibly a very good guess . and usualy all you have to do is drop a dime and there is a charge pressed in the free world . her word against his even if she declines at a latter date the state will usually pick it up . // this is @!$%#ed up here a thought once a month every one gets to go to a town we make 6 flags casinos bars whore's on the coast have about 5000 whores in town pay them 1000. dollars for each customer pay based on contracktor work not out of soldiers pocket and give them free housing and 3 meals nice high rise housing and atleast every three days has to do some one on average . to maintain good contrackt . posible to make 354,000 a year in town the one you chose or lets you chose her lets you stay whole nite till morning after housing is covered and breakfast too . have a sighn in sheet at the front desk with name rank cereial # to verify whom does who and once a month on a rotation everyone goes to town . tax free for the whores for 6 month to years long contrackts . then if one girl you like asks you why your going to town to get laid she's probibly giving you the go ahead and attempt to have sex with her if she asks you why thats what your doing might want to spend some time with you rather than being raped by whomever rapes her . i dont want to think about the punishment aspeckts of this at this time . i had this idea years ago still not implimented i do not knkow why . it makes pandering to solicitation a rapist . it's just a girl guys they've all got pussy and fammily you know dont they get enough porn they've got computers . rape is not mearly physical it is a mind crime as well . how could they trust anyone again after one of thier brothers did this to them ?????????????????????
TamaraLH:
Sorry, but your entire comment reeks of hatred against men and has zero credibility. Sure, you will always have your @!$%#s. But guess what? They come in both sexes. And although i'm sure that many of the reported cases are true, i'm also sure that many of the cases are total bull@!$%#.
Just women doing what alot of women and/or minorities do. Trying to use the system to get ahead, especially in an organization that is traditionally run by men.
In short, there are two sides to every coin.
Look, I am not in any way okay with any sexual assult, regardless of who or how. As far as i'm concerned, Sexual Assult or Rape should be a Capital Offense and that sentence should be used almost every time.
However.....
There is also reality. Sorry, but you cant put yourself in a situation that you already know is going to cause you some grief and then complain about it. And I do not mean concerning Rape. Of course that needs to be reported and complained about. I'm talking about in general.
To me, women going to the Military and complaining is akin to me going to a Black Panther Rally and then complaining about any racism that is directed towards me. (Obviously i'm white.) No matter how you try to word it or phrase it, the Military has one real purpose. And that purpose is to fight and/or kill the other side. Thats it. Thats what their for.
Well, you have to have a certain mentality for that. It takes a certain breed of person. And although I do not want to use the words neanderthal or caveman, but.....well, if the shoe fits.....
The Military is not designed for Educational purposes. The Military is not designed for career enhancement. The Military is designed to kill people. Period. So basically, you have a @!$%#load of people with warrior/killer mentalities there. Along with that mentality tends to be an animal instinct that is...well, just that.
So you cant put yourself in that environment and then act surprised when the neanderthals show their colors. Again, i'm not in any way justifying or excusing the assults. The scumbags involved need to be shot and castrated. Courtmarshalled doesn't even begin to deliver whats deserved.
But the environment is ripe for this type of behavior and to expect anything less in unrealistic and frankly, naive.....
ScreamingForVengeance - You good sir get voted up. TamaraLH is just a feminazi that thinks every man is a rapist and all women are gods little angels.
To me, women going to the Military and complaining is akin to me going to a Black Panther Rally and then complaining about any racism that is directed towards me. - Screamingforvengence
Screaming: so, on that note, what do you have to say to the male victims that make up 40% of these same complaints?
ScreamingForVengeance--
Except for the fact that our tax dollars do not support the Black Panther party, nor is it responsible for defending US soveriegnty and US law. You might as well have said in the 1940s that a black man going in to the military and complaining about racism is akin to one going to a KKK meeting and complaining about racism.
Simply because the institution has cultural issues does not mean we should simply accept those issues and forget any effort to try to improve it.
Your justification that they are there to kill the enemy and therefore anyone entering it should expect a rough time is even weaker. By that standard, no one should ever be surprised or disappointed about any kind of soldier-on-soldier violence. A private frags his commanding officer? Should have expected it, he's a trained killer, right? Soldier gets in a bar fight? Trained killer, just deal.
Sure, we train them to kill, but the instant a soldier forgets that he's only supposed to attack the enemies we tell them to, and no one else, it must be answered and cannot be excused.
So the rapists will be investigated and removed from the military, according to Hertog. Hello? What happens to the civilian population when these creeps are discharged? More sexual assaults? I don't see anything about court-martial or imprisonment for these crimes. I always wanted to serve in the military - then I thought it would be a good idea for my daughter - maybe I should be thankful we were persuaded otherwise.
Oh sure, typical 'neoconservative' thinking which is prevalent in the military. Take a problem that is primarily inflicted against a FEMALE and put a MALE in charge. FAIL!!!!! They need to take this prosecution away from the military, who has proven to be not only the creator of this behavior, but unable to rein it in. Secondly, I believe these rapists will be returning to the US, right?! What about them being included on the Sexual Predator's list so neighbors can now know that 'Johnny' who was such a nice boy before he went to war is no longer a nice boy at all and now commits violent sexual crimes. Again, the glaring truth that the military is protecting NOBODY but themselves in the USA. Fascists!
American
"Take a problem that is primarily inflicted against a FEMALE and put a MALE in charge. FAIL!!!!!"
Looks like you are painting with a broad brush, here. Not all men agree with sexual assault; many abhor it. Perhaps General Patton will do a good job cleaning this up.
Sometimes you need to play the odds. Put a male football player in charge of investing a rape involving a fellow football player and see what you get. Many of these investigations fail because the problem is so widespread that everyone covers for everyone because everyone has something on everyone. I saw one such case recently.
Perhaps General Patton is the sort of guy who would have to restrain himself from just summarily shooting a purported rapist. There are a few of us around.
What a sick, evil and corrupt military, I am shocked and ashamed!
I'm ashamed, but not shocked.
You know, we need to lower the pedestal that we place soldiers on just a bit. REMEMBER, the military takes gang bangers, too. They robbed, murdered, and raped before they signed up. Why does anyone think they would change?
I'm not saying the assailants are all bangers, but the element is there.
Bob - actually the more heinous crimes are not allowed. Some waivers are permitted after a review of the crime and the individual. (Boston Globe, June 13, 2007 article)
"Applicants who have committed a single felony such as arson, burglary, aggravated assault, breaking and entering, or marijuana possession must also receive a moral waiver to join. Applicants with more than one felony -- or with a single conviction for a more serious crime such as homicide, sexual violence, or drug trafficking -- are not eligible."
Also the article explains that applicants aren't granted waivers automatically. There is a review of character and of the crime prior to a decision being reached. And now with the draw down of forces it is even harder to get a waiver to get in.
In the past it used to be "Serve your time or serve your country"... but that has been done away with.
Also, to categorize the whole military as shameful when the instances they describe are the exception not the rule is a little inflammatory. I AM NOT SAYING IT DOESN'T HAPPEN.....it most likely has the same prevelance as in society. As a former Marine, that is female, I never had issue with any of the guys in my units. Our leadership was quick to have a "public execution" for NJP worthy offenses, they liked to show that when the rules are broken, the punishment is swift and severe. For anything above the command's jurisdiction, typically the individuals are seperated iin different units in some manner while the investigation proceeds. My experience was one of strict adherance to the rules, and "Stand By to get yours turd bird" if you didn't.
Simple. Get women out of the military. Because the military can't deal with the problem.
From the article:
"Women aren't the only ones affected. Of the 65,000 veterans who sought treatment in 2009 for conditions related to military sexual trauma, a term that also includes sexual harassment, 40 percent were men."
jota: I agree, get the men AND the women out and then we'll have no problem with sexual abuse! :)
Dear Nad,
Welcome to the 21st century. Seems like you're in a time warp, so I 'd like to be the first to let you know that we now live in the year 2012.
Yes Nad, and as umyeah points out, we are so much more evolved in 2012 than we were back in the day. This story is proof of that...
OK nad......
As a woman that served in the Navy, I can say that we have EVERY right to serve as men. We do just as good of a job and serve our country with pride & honor. All that we ask for is that we are able to do so without the fear of our fellow service members. Removing women from serving is not the answer but holding the perpetrators of sexual assaults accountable is the answer. We have the same right to know that the person next to us has our back as anyone else serving.
REALLY? Get women out of the military? Yeah. That oughta fix it. This may come as a shock to you....
But women are covered by the same bill of rights as men. They are as committed to their
Country as you are. They have been serving this country in some capacity since WWI.
What's wrong with you? Would you stop an attack on a woman in the military? Where
the hell are the real men? Where is their courage? Why, for the love of God, are men
not stepping up to put a stop to this and support their fellow enlisted person? I hear men
complain about women in the military! They can't do the job and so on....even if that were true...
(and of course it is not) should that preclude and decent human being from coming to the defense
of another????
Really?!? Get the WOMEN out of the military?? So...if I understand this...punish women. Keep them out of the military. Is that because men can't help themselves? its inevitable that women get raped? Okay then. So...what do we do with the men who have been sexually assaulted? Here's a thought; how about MEN step up and protect a fellow soldier? You would stand up for your buddy if he was in an unfair fight, right? Where in the hell are the real men???
All of this courage and bravery you hear about men facing every day...I'm calling bull@!$%#. MEN, look at yourselves and ask, where is your courage? Women have been serving this country one way or another since the civil war. So I ask you, Can you stand by your fellow American? If you can stand you your buddy in a fight...what's the difference? oh yeah.
She's a woman. Civilian or not, military or not, you are honor bound. You took an oath. That oath doesn't end when your out, at least it doesn't for those of us who are true Americans. Those of us who truly believe in what this country stands for, wouldn't stand for the rape of a fellow American.
I guess I'm mad. Sorry about the double post.
Who puts dem ebil womens in muh military? Next youse gonna be tellin me people of color can vote...(SARCASM PEOPLE!)
Some days I feel like I woke up in 12th century Europe, with better hygiene.
Solving the problem by removing women from the military kinda reminds me of the article on this site a few days back in which Arab males felt that women needed to cover their bodies from head to toe to address the woman's inabiltiy to control her sexual lust.
I guess we have alot of people in this country that think the same way as the Muslims.
Not that there's anything wrong with that........just saying.
I find it's about time this is coming to the forefront of knowledge. It's been going on a LONG time.
Is it just me or are we using the term "epidemic" way to often and to describe way to many things lately?
We're in the midst of an epidemic of epidemics.
keep the pressure up on these CREEPS!
Great. Vilify every male service member. Just f'ing great.
I did my time as a male service member, and I don't feel vilified at all. There are creeps everywhere, both military and civilian, and they all need to be dealt with, in the most severe fashion allowable.
Or vilify every female member. Seems to be the argument in its most simplistic form. Fault falls on both sides.
The assumption that females will use sexual assault/rape as a means to 'get out of things' or 'get what they want' is the very mentality that needs to change. Yes, unfortunately, there are scumbag women who will do this, but they are undoubtedly the minority.
Mens is evul
wow... someone sounds guilty
Not surprised you assume that. Thanks for proving my point.
I do not think that it helps that the military allows the sale of pornography on base. Pornography shows women in a degrading manner and lessens any inhibitions that the males have towards them. Just another trigger for the males.
It's called self control. You can blame it on anything you want, but it really boils down to self control.
um,
I agree that self control is important. But why allow something (pronography) that will wear down that self control?
The military has classes on preventing sexual harrassment. The classes are manditory and are repeated on a regular basis. But then the military allows the message that it is ok to look at pornography, which degrades women. So on one hand they teach that you should respect women and then allow the degredation of women. These mixed messages do not help the situation.
Freddystairs -- I agree completely. Self control is necessary, but without community and personal standards set high, most people are sure to sink to the lowest level. Set a standard in which degradation toward women (and men) is unacceptable, and pornography will fall outside that standard.
I always found that the bars and brothels that lined both sides of the street leading to the main gate of the base, were handy to relieve any undue pressures that might be induced by a little porn. And good for overall morale.
Den O'synn. I was seeing some of your previous comments and thought hey good on you...but really...promoting prostitution? I can think of other things to do that could increase morale that doesn't entail an std.
That is stupid concept. That is like saying cooking shows lead to binge eating.
Or allow woman in uniform to show off their breast while breast feeding. I hear that excites some guys.
I consider myself lucky in that, in the six and a half years that I served in the US Navy, I was only subject to one case of mild heterosexual sexual abuse. While in "A" School, I was at the local bar playing pinball and a young man that I barely knew came up and grabbed my butt. He leaned in and squeezed and said, "I know you like it," to which my response was, "No, I don't" and I shook him loose. I'm sure there were other verbal incidents beyond that which I've forgotten about, but nothing every got physical.
However, due to the unwanted attention of a female member of my squadron (I'm not inclined for homosexuality, but she was, so I was subject to a combination of regular harassment and sexual harassment), I had a nervous breakdown in-service which has resulted in long-term mental health issues. The tension stemmed from working in a four-person office with this person, of working on assignments together, of her being my superior, and of being "asked" to engage in a behavior that I didn't agree with.
For the past five years, I have been unable to find a full- or part-time job... how much of that has to do with the economy and how much has to do with my own inability to be "energetic, a go-getter, live within ten minutes of work, work under pressure and wear seven hats," I'm not sure and can never be sure. Nor can anyone, really. You walk around asking yourself what kind of person you would have been had this/these incidents not happened, but there's never an answer.
As a male, I think if that guy grabbed my ass I would have invited him to the bathroom, then beat the living crap out of him, cut his balls off, and shoved them in his piehole. (after all, balls in his mouth are something he is used to!)
I'd have banged the lezbo. They have a choice in gay or straight, after all.
Now, lets see if the original victim gets some villification......
I can remember my dad and grandfather talking about what would happen if they ever put women out in combat zones during war time or in places that were unsafe. They both agreed that it would be a disaster in the making to put it mildly. Then there was the same discussion between me and my father after I returned from Vietnam and my sister was thinking about going into the Air Force. I never shared in a fire fight with a member of the opposite sex watching my back. I trusted the men around me with my life and
they knew I would watch their backs. If the lady soldiers want to be involved bless them all. There
were a few gays for awhile but most of them were weeded out. Remember that for a small part men are
animals, so if there are goodies on the trap; a few rats are going to show up. Some will get caught and others will get away. “War Is Hell but Battle Is A Real M….”
Equal rights for all, god help us all.
Bob, I believe Standup is a female.
Also, without having seen this documenatary, I hope Amy didn't just do a 60% reporting job. Acording to the article, 40% of these cases are against males. Could be male-on-male or female-on-male. If her goal is to expose the reality of abuse in the military I hope it is the entire situation and not just the "female" side of it.
Attention single women: Military and military type professions(policeman, fireman, etc) often attract this type of man, the misogynistic knuckle dragger. Please be aware of this up front. Generally, the best way to avoid attention from these guys, if you HAVE to deal with them is to be educated, confident and not take any crapola they have to dish out. Be tough as nails. These guys are not attracted to strong women.
ANY "profession" attracts these types of men. I used to work in an office in downtown Chicago. Very white-collar job. We had misogynistic knuckle-draggers in there, too. There is a blatant disrespect in the majority of male culture in terms of understanding how to work and properly interact with women. We're not trophies to make you look good. We're not a prize at the end of the night when "last call" rings out. We're people.
When I joined the Navy in 1992, this problem was being addressed for the first time by creating "I" Companies-- a 50/50 split of men and women who shared training together. We did everything together save for bathroom times (it worked on 15-minute shifts throughout the day) and sleeping (we split up with another company, so all the women slept in one space and all the men slept in another). Through this experience, the men we were with learned how to treat us with respect and we were able to understand each other's limitations and strong points. There was a definite difference in dealing with the male colleagues in our company and dealing with those in "C" Companies.
Now that's funny, I am attracted to strong, educated women, nothing like being stimulated physically and mentally so your comment is foolish. Not all men are the same, not all military men are the same, not all comments are accurate, sorry yours is one of those.
Yours truly
23 yr Male MP, still serving and doing the right thing.
Warlocknoir, thats a fact. Thanks for putting it out there.
I sure as hell hope this isn't just more lip service. I served in the early 70's, this crap was going on then. I'll reserve my judgement. We'll see if the military really does something about this problem......
I think the solution is an all gay U.S. armed forces.
At least the mess hall would be clean.
...but, there would still be rapes because the military attracts a certain type of a-hole, gay or straight!
Go tell the Spartans.
Lets see, .. the military,.. the men and women who serve as soldiers,... are trained to do ONE thing KILL PEOPLE. Regardless of any Pollyanna BS that you (reader) or anyone else sells to you, the MILITARY for thousand of years has serves and still serves to do ONE THING, KILL PEOPLE. Now only an American and fellow Americans can look at a job that is designed to turn the average moral human into an amoral KILLER and decide it should have some sort of sexual fairness or some sort of "real world" sexual politics. IF you want to KILL people regardless of your sex you should be prepared for all of the ugly "other stuff" that comes with reducing your inner morality to the point of accepting that in order to do you job, YOU WILL KILL PEOPLE. I do this often and will do it again: ANY post that comments on this post and strays from the statements herein is written by a buffoon and anyone is free to be a buffoon. LOL
I actually agree with all you say here. If you breed a certain type of person then you're going to get certain types of behaviors. And killers aren't exactly choir boys.
Ricci-Ricci: You are correct. Which is why the basic premise of being 'fair' and allowing females into the military should not have happened. While it would be nice to think that a honorable military could exist the reality is that training starts by making boys into killers, which makes them think they are powerful. It could have worked in the past with units that were segregated, but in today's military that has been severly downsized, the females are just required to be too close to most males, day and night. It sets them up for failure, and allows the men to 'go wild' so to speak. Maybe with continued downsizing, the military can be more selective and perhaps weed out a certain, 'over the top' personality.
On the same note, if women want to go into this willingly, and are going to stand up for themselves and be trained as killers too, shouldn't they be allowed to if they're aware of what kind of company they'll be around? It's not like these women sign up and think they're going to some Girl-Fest Boot Camp, they're going into the military.
Just because you do your job in a firefight, doesn't mean you'll stoop to rape. The two have nothing in common.
No need to report on the documentary that takes on the Muslim Brotherhood which has infiltrated all levels of our Government.
Nothing to see here.
So we should draft women into this? I joined the military at 18 years old and I just couldn't take the sexual harassment--not just mine, but watching it happen to others so openly. It is worse than it is in civilian life, because you cannot just quit the military. You're usually surrounded by men. Most of the officers and leaders are men and when you're called out into a cornfield at 3:00a you have to go and see why. You are told that you don't have to follow illegal orders, but you have to prove that an order was illegal or harassing to have any case. Frankly, men and women do not belong in integrated military units. You almost have to treat military personnel the way you treat prisoners, because it is what they are.
Obviously what we are doing isn't working. The Israeli armed forces have included women in fighting positions for many decades now. I would be interested to see how their structure is established to handle these situations. Maybe we could learn something.
And you wonder why so many women want to have access to abortions and birth control?
It is the military. Whether we kill innocent civilians or brutalize our own, the chain of command's survival is the highest priority. Until and unless that mind set can be changed at the senior leadership level the behavior described/condoned/aided/ and abetted as described in the article above will be considered as "collateral damage" and considered as acceptable. Unless, of a nature so egregious that my 14 year old twin grand children would understand it to be unacceptable. IS THIS TRULY WHAT THIS ONCE GRAND NATION HAS COME TO????? If so, 'tis almost overwhelmingly sad.
I have a spouse who deals with all of this and more. What needs fixing is the chain of command. The commanders and officers of those that are both perps and victims are blind, powerless and in some cases turn a blind eye to what happens. The Secretary of Defense is the one who needs to change the culture and the "good ol" boy mentality that is still running amok in the our armed forces.
What would you expect if your wife or your girlfriend was to be living together with a whole bunch of guys for months at a time, especially if those women have nice legs and good breasts? Besides, that whole bunck of guys will not see their own wives and gilfriends for a very long time. You know what I mean... it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what's gonna happen. Actually, instead of complaning, all those female soldiers should go back for more...
The best thing you can do, military husbands, is buying a half a dozen boxes of condoms for your wives, so she will not infect you with any disease after returning from "serving".
So for you there is no big deal about about it? You are a very sick low life if you are serious.
I wonder if you, or many others, would call these mentally and intellectually deprived rapists and molesters: "Warriors", like we see so often to describe just a soldier who served and returned injured from war.
You need some serious help.
Midnight, In have to assume your post is supposed to be a joke. i can not fathom amyone saying anything that stupid and and mean it
Military is not a profession or place for women. As long as there are fairer sex in the exclusive domain of men there things are inevitable....why the hue and cry! If you leave a lamb in front of lion you do not expect the lion not to devour the lamb.
The women are already victims....in domestic circles, in societies, in nations and in this Godless World at large. By asking for equal rights and being in the places where they are not supposed to be, they are heaving upon themselves more WOES....This World is NOT the Kingdom of Heaven....NOT YET...even the Nature teaches this and is open to the eyes of every souls. They should accept this fact and act accordingly.
Rai Prati: so according to you women belong neither in the military nor the world at large? Good luck with that. So, also according to you women are not safe while men are around? I think not...just only while men like you are around. We should divest ourselves of worthless pigs like you. I will NOT accept or tolerate my country...my home being violated by a pigs like you! Thankfully, there are far more men who would agree that you are the one that does not belong...not women. By the way...this is not a Godless world. As long as there is goodness in this world... God exists. You, however, are forsaken and clearly beyond redemption.