no witness to rebut zimmermans statement, self defense, not guility.

If I told you that there was a man walking around your neighborhood. That this man had been arrested for assaulting a police officer and serving alcohol to a minor. He has a restraining order against him from his ex-fiance who alleges domestic abuse. On his MySpace page this man refers to women as 'hoes'. He was court ordered to take anger management classes due to temper. He attempted to become a police officer but he failed the psycological exam. He is walking around your neighborhood with a Tek9 straped to his hip. That mans sounds like a thug doesn't he? That man is George Zimmerman!

"Shooterman" will be accurately portrayed as the zealous, racist vigilante that he is and will be convicted by his own words. No additional witnesses needed.

I don't think so, lot of doubt here but I agree with everything else you stated

Zimmerman was told by the Police not to pursue this kid. Zimmerman was told by the Police to return to his vehicle. Zimmerman disobeyed a police directive. Zimmerman pursued this kid. Zimmerman was the agressor. Zimmerman was the purportrator. Zimmerman, Zimmerman, Zimmerman!

If Zimmerman is found not guilty than FL will have one helluva pickle on their hands. Say I take offense with someone. I see that person on the street and run up to them, I scream at them and do whatever I must to provoke them to take physical action. I let them get a few good licks in, than remove my legally concealed weapon from my hip and put a slug in their chest. When the police arrest me I have my lawyer bring up the People v. Zimmerman case and I walk away. Because there are no viable witnesses, no one can refute my stroy. This case is much bigger than race, it legitimises murder.

We all know that thug is a code word. *wink wink hood, hood*.

Anyway, I still think second degree murder is too high a charge and he will get off, because in my eyes (from what has filtered out) it is not second degree murder. I think manslaughter would be the appropriate charge if the prosecutor really wanted to get something. The big part of this case will be the fact that he confronted the teen after he was told to back off. That might open up a civil liability case. No matter how you slice it, this is tragic for both families involved. I hate that people are taking sides, because the police did not investigate properly (again just from what I hear through news outlets) right off the bat. So no, no one deserves death like this and yes, this could have all be avoided, if he had stand down like he was told to do by the dispatcher.

JAB....you made some comments about Zimmerman's injuries and how they couldn't be self-inflicted. Guess you never saw the movie where the woman slams her own face and head into a doorway and cuts up her arms and then tells the police she was attacked by an ex-lover. Wow....self-infliction. How about the movie with Farah Faucett where she shot her kids and then shot herself. Or the one with Ken Olin where he shoots his wife and then shoots himself. Wow...self-infliction. Open your eyes and see the light. People will do whatever they can to take the blame off of themselves when they stop and smell the roses and realize they just committed a crime.

JAB-396955 You have no idea what happened. The only ones who know what happened is GOD, Zimmerman and Trayvon. Since you have decided what is racist and what is not racist, police instructed this trigger happy tin solider not to pursue Trayvon. He took it upon himself to do so. I wonder would he have pursued Trayvon if he didn't have his gun? But I guess people like you form their own opinions based on the fact that you are a racist.

I feel that the cops doing the interview have done criminal investigations before, and probably know and understand how to ask the proper questions to elicit a truthful answer. although GZ is "guilty" of stupidity I "Feel" that this video show why he was not charged in the beginning. He was afraid for his life, the man who was going to take it is now dead.

All the people who say he should have taken getting his a$$ whooping "Like a man," Have you ever been on your back getting your head beat on the sidewalk? I have. when some one beats your head on the sidewalk, is punching your face and tells you your going to die, If you had a weapon you would not protect yourself? If you say no, you are lying!

Are you talking about the "thug Zimmerman" because he did not get shot. The "THUG" in this case is now in jail and soon to be prosecuted.

So yeah, this "THUG Zimmerman" will get what he deserves.

Berlena..... you are a great writer..... but only fiction and U need to learn to read, write, and spell if you are going to make a living at it. Purportrator?????? Zims did not disobey a police directive. A dispatcher is not a police officer. A statement that 'you don't need to do that" is a directive? The police told Zimmerman to return to his vehicle? You made that up, didn't you? BERLENA, BERLENA, BERLENA!

Yes....and those people were convicted, too!

There are people who want to believe the worst, too, no matter what the evidence is. OJ was guilty, but it was all racial. So there!

Someone here watches to much TV. How could one believe that because they saw it in a movie that this is reality?

Zimmerman was stalking Martin... Zimmerman followed Martin... Zimmerman had a gun, Martin did not have a gun...

Sad day in America when a teenager is shot dead walking too slowly home in the rain by a grown man on a mission...

Am I the only one that sees how this tape is damning to Zimmerman? He reached back under his coat before Trayvon Martin hit him. Could it be when he lifted his coat to get his phone, that Trayvon saw his gun? Could he have hit first because he thought he was going to be shot...like he was?

Trayvon Martin had every right to defend himself from some "thug" with a gun that chased him down when all he was doing was talking to his girlfriend on the phone and going back to his father's home.

You gun happy people are crazy. You think because you have a gun you can step on every other person's rights.

To all those that do not have the ability to read and comprehend, ("Berlena McCallum") or read erroneous reports and treat them as gospel, PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP!

Berlena McCallumvia Zimmerman was told by the Police not to pursue this kid.

911 OPERATORS ARE NOT POLICE!!!

@dabby, OJ was guilty but faulty police work let him off. It could happen here too.

Deborah S.,

He reached back under his coat before Trayvon Martin hit him. Could it be when he lifted his coat to get his phone, that Trayvon saw his gun? Could he have hit first because he thought he was going to be shot...like he was?

Most likely...

Oh, and all the crap Trayon supposedly said? We sure couldn't hear any of "that" on any 911 calls...

Terry - you hit it right on. "walking too slowly home in the rain bay a grown man on a mission..." That is the whole point people seem to ignore. Trayvon was not doing anything but walking down on a street. Why Zimmerman had to confront him in the first place is the issue!!

I still have a hard time understanding how people think Zimmerman disobeyed the dispatcher and continued to pursue the Martin. Zimmerman's truck was to the North West of the shooting scene. Brandy G's house was to the southeast. When Zimmerman lost Martin, he may or may not of been returning to his truck but the truck was still in the opposite direction of the direction Martin was traveling.

I wish you Trayvon apologists would explain to me how Zimmerman confronted Trayvon when it isnt physically possible.

Trayvon is dead because he wanted to kick the crud out of a fat out of shape non black guy. Unfortunately for Trayvon said guy had a gun.

1. A 17 year old isnt a kid.

2. Assault is assault. Make sure you know which state you are in before you jump someone. see Texas.

3. This isnt racially motivated on the defenses part. Black men are killing white people and other black people in Florida every day and it hardly makes the back page of the local news paper.

4. The idiot prosecutor went with second degree murder because if she would of charged him with 1st degree manslaughter the black community would of been outraged.

At the end of the day this is about our justice system bowing to a group of people.

Lacking any testimony to say otherwise and given the physical evidence, it sounds like self-defense to me. There certainly isn't enough so far to convict Zimmerman of second degree murder or even negligent manslaughter. You can't make it illegal to walk up to someone else on the street.

I'd like to see the tape/interview from another outlet source - not that NBC/MSNBC has a habit, or past history, of tampering with or editing video/audio to meet an (their) agenda or anything...

I was thinking the same thing, Deborah. Plus we only have Zimmerman's word that he was reaching for his phone. Maybe he pulled his gun and Martin started beating on him for his life?

In that scenario it would be plausible for Martin to be beating Zimmerman AND still be the one screaming for help because he knew Zimmerman had a gun.

Unfortunately we only have Zimmerman's side. We can only hope that the evidence paints a clear picture. I think the alleged "you got me" sounds so fake that I doubt the rest of the statement.

Zimmerman states Trayvon Martin got on top of his screaming for help. Then he changes it to he (George Zimmerman) was screaming for help.

The man changes his story and is a known proven liar to officials. He is guilty. He's calming discussing it.

Also besides the nose which he states he was hit first, he's face doesn't look beat up. He could of gotten the cuts on the back of his head when he fell after getting punched. Trayvon was probably holding him down until someone could come help him since it's been proven that George Zimmerman wasn't the one that was yelling for help.

Trayvon's own Twitter and Facebook pages point to a kid going down a bad road.... hence the reason his families attourney had them removed. IF they weren't incriminating as far as his character...WHY were they removed? Could it be because he mentions punching a bus driver and his friends asking him for some weed?

tke-I don't see why he would have had to "reach around Trayvon" (or what you really mean by that). Whichever side the gun was on, he just had to reach down with that hand and grab it-no need to "reach around" anything-just sliding his hand down his side. He could have even kept the other hand up to try and defend his face. In regards to where Trayvon was sitting-how tall are the two relative to one another? If trayvon was taller, or had a longer torso, him sitting on/near Zimmerman's thighs would put him right at face height with his arms.

Not trying to defend GZ, just trying to understand what happened. I'll tell you one thing-I don't envy the jury! This case just keeps getting messier and messier, and I honestly don't know what to think anymore.

Why is this being released BEFORE the trial? To give Zimmerman's lawyer a reason to file appeals, if he is found guilty? It doesn't matter if you or I think he is innocent or guilty; what counts is what a jury says.

The few people who have called Treyvon names, need to stop and think..... he was a kid who went to the store and was talking to his girl on the phone...... since when is any of that suspicious or criminal?

All I can say is get the vaseline ready Zimmerman, you are going down! Because all the thugs in Florida's jail will get a piece of that.. And to all of the other racist out there especially JAB who have such heartless comments, there is a thug waiting for you too! Trayvon didnt deserve to die when he was walking and minding his own business. If someone I didnt know came up in the dark to ask me where I was going.. I would told him to kick rocks too. Trayvon didnt owe him NO type of explanation! Zimmerman better stay bullet proofed up..

Martin brought skittles to a gunfight.....LOL

And if everyone had a gun deb??? Would this have happened??? Yes? How so? My guess is that Zimerman would be the one dead? How so? Because in a gun fight, the one who gets the shot off FIRST wins... You do not attack some one with a gun when you have nothing Deb, it is stupid, you will die if you do. So, I don't think that TM saw a gun. If he was going to soot him, he wouldn't have bothered with the police, would he? Deb, think before you wright next time please... And this is too all of you out there who think, "TM just saw the gun so he attacked GZ, I would do the same thing durher..." I mean realy, if ANYONE in there right minds saw a gun, THEY WOULD F-ING RUN!!!

Alright! - If Trayvon was sitting on top of him than Trayvon's legs would be on either side of Zimmerman meaning Zimmerman would have to reach around his legs. According to the autopsy the two men have a difference of 4 inches, not enough to give Trayvon enough length to sit on his thighs and be wailing on Zimmerman the way Zimmerman claims. Other reports from witnesses say Trayvon was up on his chest, even though it was dark chest could be mistaken for stomach but not for thighs.

I still think according to the law in Fl at the time of the killing, Zimmerman is not guilty. The Police did there job as the law required.

@America Today-Anthony & at others that don't get the facts right. Zimmerman was no where near his vehicle because he got out of it to chase down Trayvon Martin in between houses. So all those stories of Trayvon sneaking up on him are false. Have you even seen the area where it happened. There is no cover unless Trayvon was on someone's back porch. You keep making up excuses for a grown man with a vigilante complex chasing a young man/boy home and then showing off his gun before the boy starts to defend himself.

If Mr. Zimmerman had been doing anything that he said he was doing...he wouldn't have been anywhere near Trayvon to be hit. Mr. Zimmerman was heard confronting Trayvon by Trayvon's girlfriend who was on the phone with him when Mr. Zimmerman found Trayvon.

You people keep making up excuses for a "thug" with a vigilante complex killing a boy to be okay. Well it isn't and never will be okay.

@Vyor Derfa - If people didn't follow children home and listened to Neighborhood Watch guidelines, police dispatchers and commonsense....None of this would have happened!!!

I would attack anyone that looked like they were reaching for a gun when running away from them had already failed to get rid of them.

Your reasoning is very flawed. Try again.

Soxfan,

There was another person that knows what happened from the time Zimmerman hung up with 911 and supposedly went back towards his truck, and right before the fight started happening. That would be Dee Dee. From the point of the fight starting til the gun shot can be heard in the 911 tape from the owner of the property. If they put Dee Dee on the stand she will be shredded by the defense.

Why do you ask?

Because it isnt physically possible for her account to be true. She says Martin was under an overhang getting out of the rain. Martin could see BG's house! Why would he chill under the overhang of some house, while being chased by a so called stalker, when he could be warm and snug with little surrogate bro Chad, within 30 seconds?

Dee Dee didnt even try to contact Martin's family about being on the phone with Trayvon until the prosecution confronted her about it. But she was at the wake? She didnt feel it necessary to tell the people there that she was on the phone with him?

If this was a white guy killing a white kid most of you wouldnt be blinded by stupidity. The girl is obviously covering. Young people do this kind of stupidity all of the time.

That girl is GUILTY. She egged him on to confront Zimmerman.

Trayvon wasnt a kid and Zimmerman isnt Elmer Fudd hunting wabbits!

As another poster stated before, at 6' 2" Martin is taller than most of you. If it is dark, and you are in your local area, and some tall person jumps on you.....

When would you finally pull your gun and fire?

Let it play out. Zimmerman will hang himself by his own words.

"To all the little thugs out there who try to assault people because they think they're tough...this slug's for you."

Another dead slug? Damn slimmy things. oh wait you said thug....never mind, my bad, I have a hard time understanding idiots.

"Have you ever been on your back getting your head beat on the sidewalk? I have. when some one beats your head on the sidewalk, is punching your face and tells you your going to die, If you had a weapon you would not protect yourself? If you say no, you are lying!"

Well there are a few problems.

1. No one knows for sure if TM said "you're going to die" That is Zimmerman's story. A story from a man that just killed someone.

2. I don't believe for a minute TM "Just punched him" for no reason. Zimmerman said he was reaching for his phone but for all you are we know he actually reached for his gun.

Now if you were TM and this strange man pulled a gun on you and you're trapped what would you do?

And if Zimmerman did pull his gun then TM had every right under the Stand your Ground law to punch him in the face and slam his head into the sidewalk tying to save his own life.

The bottom line is Zimmerman should not have been any where near TM with that gun and if he didn't have that gun he probably would have done what he was told and stayed in his car, where he belonged.

Deborah S. Your just as guilty of making things up as you say people who believe differently than you are. You wern't there, your not a psychic or a mind reader!!! Cause if you had those powers you'd be out makin' you some money off them powers, not sittin' here deciding you know everthing and that only your opinion is correct. This is why we have a judical system, you know the thing that has judges and juries??? This is falt out BULL@!$%# that this news site KEEPS TRYING THIS CASE IN THE MEDIA!!!! There is NO POSSIBILITY if any such thing as a FAIR TRIAL in this case. IT's not the defense that keeps throw this crap out inti the public damn near on a daily basis when there are so many more current affairs of importance that are much more newsworthy!!!! The GZ?TM stories need to STOP as this crap is unfairly influencing any potential jury pool anywhere and continuing to FAN THE FLAMES WILL ONLY PERPEUATE THE HATE AND LEAD TO RIOTS WHEN GZ WALKS DUE TO THE TAINTED JURY!!!!!!!!

I'm not sure what many on this board read above but lets run it down. Trayvon hit zimmerman for asking him to identify himself. Even if you were to argue that he felt threatened the legal response to being yelled at by someone who's following you is NEVER to punch them in the face. And yes I believe that someone in the state Zimmerman is in this video is telling the truth, at least regarding his perception of events. But even if you remove the emotion from the story he's telling he pursued someone who he thought might be breaking into homes (which is part of his job as community watch) and when he asked them to identify themselves they punched him. So up until that point and if the story ended there, Trayvon would be arrested for assault right now.

Play if forward. If you were Zimmerman being punched (regardless of whether you think he deserved it for asking Trayvon about his intentions) wouldn't you consider any efforts you could to get him off of you? I mean I know I would fight like hell to get a stranger off of my stomach.

Finally YES you can reach your hip if someone is sitting on your chest. Especially if they're straddling you with their knees on the ground as the gap between their bottom leg and top leg would be right on your hip depending on your height.

What people are not thinking about is why, would a man who is carrying a weapon, instigate a physical altercation? Anybody? Why would someone, anyone, with a weapon, let their attacker get into a fight with them. If I feared for my life, repeat, I feared for my life, I would have shot before I got my a$$ beat.

tke-I see what you mean now-thanks for the clarification.-I was envisioning the scenario where he was farther back than the gun.

Though I do have one more question-how was the gun holstered? Is it possible it could have rode upward during the confrontation and was no longer located at the hips?

First of all the DA charged Zimmerman with a charge they have no way of proving beyond a reasonable doubt....too much has been leaked....too many theories about what happened...too many different versions of what happend are floating around but all that matter is what happens at trial....if they can even find 18 people who have never heard of this case before (I highly doubt that, given the international scope of this). They over-charged him knowing they can't get a conviction....it was done to placate the Black community, it was a total political move, not a move for justice. It was done so the Blacks wouldn't riot or do whatever they had planned to do.

I just hope that when the trial is over the Black community won't turn into the animals they did in LA..because if it were up to me the National Guard would be on the streets the day of the verdict with strict 'shoot to kill' orders for all looters/rioters. If people want to protest and march etc, they have that right in this country but they don't have the right to loot or riot. I hope the NG are on the streets and given free reign to do whatever needs to be done to ensure peace and that no one is hurt or killed and no businesses are destroyed or robbed. Tis goes to ALL wouldbe theifs or vandals.

I wonder... Many times it was stated by Zimmerman that Martin "Slammed his head against the ground repeatedly". In order for someone to accomplish this act in a fight, you would need something to hold on to in order slam the persons head. Looking at the pictures of Zimmerman around the time of the incident, his hair is very closely cut, nothing to "grab" there. Only his ears are left to grab on to, and they look remarkably untouched by the pictures. Also the pictures of the alleged broken nose and head injuries (that surfaced weeks after) look very light-weight for the "fight for my life" way it was described. A death match fight would leave some serious bruising as well as, broken fingers, wounds that need to be stitched etc.... Just saying...

Oh, and what about the Police Chief that conveniently "Temporally" resigned ??? If anyone is waiting for all the facts to come out in this case, you may be waiting for a very L O N G time...

Berlena McCallum fact that he confronted the teen after he was told to back off.

GO listen to the 911 tape Then tell me he did not do what the police asked.

It was TM that came back from safety to confront Zim and now it sounds like to kill Zim

If TM did not come back he would still be alive today will maybe

@Ruthel,

HAHAHA...Martin was a good kid, that's a joke right? Selling drugs, getting kicked out of school for the third time this year....bragging about punching a bus driver...oh yeah a sweet angel. I'm sick of all you Martin defenders saying he was a sweet innocent child...he was a phucking thug punk-a$$ who got exactly what he deserved....it was bound to happen to him one day, and when he attacked Zimmerman, it was that day.

Now with that being said Zimmerman is no angel either, in fact although I think he will get off the 2nd degree charge he may be open for 'violating TM's rights' or some bullsh!t like that. He's had his share or problems with the law and does have anger issues but they are both at fault here. One for carrying a gun while following someone (but he was not on patrol but on his own time going to a store when he saw Martin) and since he has a CCW, he's allowed to carry his gun any where at any time. Let's all just wait for the trial to run it's course and then examine it afterwards because all anyone on here (me included) are just spewing our own thoughts and theories....we do not and should not right now have any more info released as it may affect the trial. let it run it's course and go from there

Below is the link to show the injuries to Zimmerman's head in case there was any doubt

The stress test shows he was telling the truth.

May not be admissible in court but investigators let suspects go based on this test .

Corey & all involved should be fired including the city manager who forced Lee to quit !

This is the greatest perversion of justce ever !

GZ is innocen of unlawful homicide !

the29 you are an ignorant moron !

Cases are decided on facts not some left @!$%#s idiocy !

Seems as though MSNBC doesn't want any pics of Zimmerman's injuries being seen...this is the third time I've tried to post his and 'suprisingly' the other 2 posts have 'vanished'...well I'll keep trying

let's see if this will work

America Today-Anthony,

That's easy. Because you weren't there and you don't know what happened. Does that makes sense?

Nope....now proves that MSNBC is biased as they won't let me post a link of police pics of the back Zims head or pics taken by a cell phones of Zims exteremely bloody head taken mins after Martin attacked him and was shot

These phucking biased pricks at NBC wouldn't know real balanced journalism if it bit them in the a$$

Deborah. MSN has a bad habit of editing the facts and tapes to spur a result they want.

Although I can see how you could read it that Travon was the one screaming, the one doing the swinging usually isn't the one screaming for help.

Worse yet you say that Treyvon hit him after seeing the gun. They gun was not shown until after Zimmerman had been struck several times.

You and too many other people are caught up in the emotion of the matter. This needs to be decided by people who have no stake in the matter other than to make the correct decisions.

DB, you are speculating about who is doing the screaming. If ZImmerman was screaming over and over again, then why would he quit as soon as he fired a shot? Zimmerman himself said that he was not aware that the shot even hit Martin, so why would he stop yelling? Oh yeah, because it was not him.

You are also speculating about Martin hitting him before seeing the gun. Fact is that you don't know how it happened, just like the rest of us. Perhaps Zimmerman tried to physically detain Martin, who defended himself. Then after he realized that this kid would not submit, he pulled his weapon, and killed him. See... lots of us can speculate, and my version is just as feasible as any other.

I just love in the country how we say innocent until proven guilty... but we all know that's BS.

Look, I was even guilty of prejudging this until I said wait, I don't have all the facts.

Anybody making a decision or judgement without all the information is... well.. just plain stupid.

Let's wait to see what the COURT OF LAW says. No matter how it happens, I will trust the jury to make the right decision. They after all are the ones that will hear ALL of the evidence.

I don't get it if Trayvon is sitting on his chest beating the crap out of him just how does he somehow get his gun which would be behind Trayvon, the self defense hinges on him being assaulted at the moment he fired that deadly shot, and his story lacks that element.

Seems fairly obvious what happened here to me.

Zimmermann saw Martin walking down the street in the middle of the night. Perhaps because the neighborhood has seen robberies recently he was on watch, and perhaps there was some racial motivation to him following him, I don't know. As soon as Martin noticed he was being followed, and saw that Zimmermann got out of the car, he was ready for a confrontation, with good reason, seeming as though he was being stalked by a stranger. Nevertheless, they got into a fight, and It seems as though Martin was winning, and by a large margin. Zimmermann couldnt take it, so he shot Martin to death. Zimmermann was the main agressor, so the thought that he could use stand your ground is proposterous.

Hal422L

Looking at the pictures of Zimmerman around the time of the incident, his hair is very closely cut, nothing to "grab" there.

Have you ever dribbled a basketball, caught a football, or played Volleyball? Somehow your fingers can grip the ball and you can hold on tight! with all of that stubble on his head that might actually provide a little friction to hang onto. Think before you speak. GZ is such an idiot and wish he was really guilty of murder...It would make it a whole lot easier to stomach. He is just a frightened little idiot!

Have you seen pictures of the real Trayvon? I mean the one of the 17 year old with the tats on his face and body not the little 12 year old. Wow, have we the public been played like a violin. No one deserves to be killed based on his looks but this is the most outrageous example of trying to manipulate the public I have ever seen.
Never trust the media. I certainly will not after this little episode.

zimmerman shouldve told him he was the neighborhood watch i have a gun since he said the boy was close to him that treyvon u look suspicious with a bag of candy in his hand i called the police but he says i dont have a problem instead representing him self a watch member oh i forgot one person is not a member their should be two not one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zimmerman should have got his ass beat. That’s what happens when you decide to chase someone at night and corner them. I find it funny that all the red meat pry my gun from my cold dead hand republicans think that Trayvon should have stopped and submitted to Zimmermans will, really? because I'm sure that if some strange man armed with a gun started chasing you through a housing complex at night in the rain you all would have just stopped and took it up the ass, right? Zimmerman is just another pussy with a gun who thought he had the right to take the law into his own hands and when he found himself getting his ass beat by a child he did what all pussy's with a gun do, let their guns do what there bitch ass can't. Since when does an unarmed 17 year old beating your ass constitute deadly force? So then if I chase some kid in my neighborhood into a corner and he raises his hands to fight me then I have the right to shoot him? Or is it only self-defense if he his black and wearing a hoody?

Zimmerman is a pussy who wanted to be a cop but couldn't because he had a criminal record. Yes everyone here is perfectly ok condemning Trayvon as a gang member and a thug because he was suspended from school and smoked some weed, which by that definition I'd say that at least 70% of the U.S. population are former gang members, but Zimmerman is the one who has a criminal record. He was arrested for battery of a law enforcement officer, a third degree felony, but somehow Trayvon is the gang member.

Moral of the story is Zimmerman is a pussy who felt tough because he had a gun. He unjustly profiled Trayvon as a criminal, confronted him, chased him and when Trayvon defended himself Zimmerman got his ass whooped by a 17 year old child and then murdered Trayvon.

Whether you think Zimmerman was justified or not, what kind of sick people are you to be celebrating the killing of a 17 year old boy? Racism and hatred must be powerful things to allow you to rejoice at the death of a child, sick @!$%#s!

There are a lot of racists here on this board. Lots of hate for anyone hispanic and/or white. Shameful.

Genius, I would agree with most of the story. Zimm does stop following Trayvon 5-8 seconds after being told not to because Zimm has already lost sight of Trayvon. He's on the call with the police for another minute plus. Even after he hangs up, there is yet another 90 seconds before the fight starts. Trayvon's house is a straight line less than 30 seconds run distance at the end of the walkway from where the fight is, which is also 10 seconds away from Zimm's car. There are 5 exits from this area in between where the fight happened and his house.

Trayvon was the one who wanted to fight and it happened. If Trayvon didn't want to fight, he would have easily escaped. Fact, he already had even before Zimm finished his call with the police.

Have you seen pictures of the real Trayvon? I mean the one of the 17 year old with the tats on his face and body not the little 12 year old. Wow, have we the public been played like a violin. No one deserves to be killed based on his looks but this is the most outrageous example of trying to manipulate the public I have ever seen.
Never trust the media. I certainly will not after this little episode.

Ya..... Because the pictures of TM you are referring to IS NOT the TM we are discussing. This was discussed HUNDREDS of times on this board... Wrong person

Please stop getting your facts from Stormfront...

LMBAO!!

Son of a new bitch "I just hope that when the trial is over the Black community won't turn into the animals they did in LA..because if it were up to me the National Guard would be on the streets the day of the verdict with strict 'shoot to kill' orders for all looters/rioters."

We are all animals ( as opposed to vegetables or minerals) although you are more of an animal than most people since your sense of civilization is depicted only in black and white just the way all dogs see. I think your hope is the hope of many racist and your end as well George Zimmerman's end will be by the sword ( or in this case gun). May God have mercy on your souls

Alright said:

Though I do have one more question-how was the gun holstered? Is it possible it could have rode upward during the confrontation and was no longer located at the hips?

The initial police report says Ofc. Smith recovered the gun from the inside waistband of Zimmerman's pants. I would assume he had an inside waist band holster, as having a gun shoved down the front of your pants--especially a male, as 'male equipment' is located in front--would be a difficult proposition without a holster.

Son of Anubis said:

Nope....now proves that MSNBC is biased as they won't let me post a link of police pics of the back Zims head or pics taken by a cell phones of Zims exteremely bloody head taken mins after Martin attacked him and was shot

Not being able to post a link does not prove MSNBC's bias. A lot of us who are new/just joined/whatever have content restrictions--I can't post links either. Some can, some can't. Check with one of the moderators and see if they'll let you post links, and what their criteria is.

It seems to me that a polygraph will settle this!

Get a friend and try doing what he is saying happened; Sit any way you want on top of the other person, reach down and try to grab the other persons waist. Have the other person lift their arm. Would a shot go directly into the other person? Something isn't right here.

Son Of Anubis

Nope....now proves that MSNBC is biased as they won't let me post a link of police pics of the back Zims head or pics taken by a cell phones of Zims exteremely bloody head taken mins after Martin attacked him and was shot

These phucking biased pricks at NBC wouldn't know real balanced journalism if it bit them in the a$$

And I call bullsh#t that you even tried to post anything. Oh wait, I have to believe you just because you said so, nope. You see, most of us aren't idiots who just believe any piece of crap that is said as truth. Kinda how like I don't believe any part of Zimmermans story. I mean, good grief, his Quotes of Martin sound like bad dialogue from one of those bad "Blacksploitation" films of the 70's. Sheesh.

Most of the points and arguments people are making are not relevant, in my opinion. Zimmerman did shoot Martin. But regardless of the mitigating details or facts, it is obvious that Zimmerman inititated a situation that subsequently is alleged to have placed him in danger. I don't think it matters if Martin did turn on him; Zimmerman caused the situation, and is therefore responsible. I don't really think it's relevant if Martin did knock him down, because Zimmerman caused the enounter in the first place. I don't know of any place where it's legal to cause a fight, then justify using deadly force because it went badly for you. Zimmerman had no authority to apprehend or pursue Martin, and since he had not observed Martin committing a crime, he had no justification for using deadly force until he was in a situation of his own making. I wouldn't call it murder, but manslaughter or negligent homicide sure seems to fit in this case.

Another thought has occurred to me. If Zimmerman was so into the Neighborhood Watch and being the community defender that he thought it necessary to carry a firearm, why did he not also carry something non-lethal? A collapsable baton, pepper spray, or a tazer? I think his claim of self-defense would be much stronger if he'd tried to use or even had a non-lethal weapon with him. I don't know if Zimmerman is a racist or whatever. But I'm pretty sure he is an idiot who placed himself in a situation he could not control except by resorting to deadly force.

If you really listen to GZ while in the car explaining where he spotted Trayvon, and from that point on, MOST of what he states doesn't line up with the timeline of 911 non emergency call. At no point in that call does he state that Trayvon turned back from where he headed toward the 'T' and circles his vehicle...What GZ didn't know at the time was that Trayvon was on phone and reporting to DD the whole time of him being watched/followed. GZ has already parked his truck facing direction of club house/mailboxes...and that's how he's able to observe Trayvon and see him as he walks toward his truck and ultimately runs toward home. It's at that point he exits his truck and starts running after him, taking the RVC route, thinking he'd be able to cut Trayvon off, not realizing that Trayvon was going to a known residence. How the hell can you live in a neighborhood, and patrol as part of NW, and not know one of the 3 streets you were on...and then go to a street further away from where you actually parked, to look for street name?!

The assault on GZ is a criminal act. GZ did nothing wrong but defend himself which is a basic paramount right of anyone.

TM has no right to assault GZ period even if he did stop & question him. He made a bad choice. He should have walked directly to the home of his dads girlfriend.

In legal terms TM was an invitee on the property of the condo complex which is PRIVATE property. He can only stay on the side walk leading to that home . Anything other than that makes him suspicious !

GZ's injuries are very evident in the video as he leads the investigators through the scene of the alleged crime . Bandages bruising etc unless some think the cops are in on a conspiracy of course !

All Americans should be very upset with the charges based on media with no probable cause !

Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to the charge. He remains in a solitary cell in Florida's Seminole County jail.

Police dispatch told him to remain in car and don't follow... Simple instructions would have saved a teenager... sigh

Dave what is relevant is that TM legally speaking is an invitee on a private complex. His rights are to walk directly to his dads girlfriends unit. GZ has every right to confront him.

TM has no justification for attacking GZ even if GZ got in his face which he didn't as far as evidence indicates.

This is not the same as approaching on a public street but what is very relevant is that witness Joe Oliver saw TM attacking GZ. That is the point where we know a criminal assault is occurring.

This is a slam dunk for the defence.

Rixar13 that is rubbish. At no time was GZ told to stay in his car. He was even told to followhim when he lost sight of TM.

At one point he was told he didn't have to follow TM & agreed. Shortly after GZ said he was being approached by TM stating he didn't know what was up with TM & said TM had a hand in his waist band !

What part of Invitee on PRIVATE property don't you understand ?

tke29

If I told you that there was a man walking around your neighborhood. That this man had been arrested for assaulting a police officer and serving alcohol to a minor.

The police officer was undercover (therefore he probably didn't even know it was a police officer) and grabbed his friend's arm (from what I have read), this man (George Zimmerman) jumped in to help his friend.

He has a restraining order against him from his ex-fiance who alleges domestic abuse.

You missed the part where George Zimmerman also filed a restraining order against the ex girlfriend which was granted as well, you assume that because he is a man he is the one who was violent. You are very naive if you think that women can't be violent, its just that most men won't say anything because they are ashamed. Myself I had to escape my ex as he was violent, on the other hand my present husband has been a victim of violence as well from his ex wife (among other things she has kicked him in the b***s).

Here's a "non-violent" woman video for you: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/philly-woman-caught-on-camera-beating-man-in-vicious-bus-beatdown/

On his MySpace page this man refers to women as 'hoes'.

That was about 8 years ago, he was 21 year old, I'm sure no young guys ever call women "hoes" (especially after a bad relationship, you wouldn't like how my husband calls his ex). Have you even looked at Trayvon Martin's Twitter and Facebook pages? You should. Take a look also at his Twitter account before the NO_LIMIT_NIGGA one (he tells a friend to shoot someone). I guess you also figure that many rappers are violent as there is quite a few references to "hoes" in rap.

He was court ordered to take anger management classes due to temper.

This is regular procedure after an assault on a police officer or other. It says nothing about his actual temper.

He attempted to become a police officer but he failed the psycological exam.

You don't have any idea what the psychological exam is. Many fail the first time, try again, succeed, and become great police officers.

He is walking around your neighborhood with a Tek9 straped to his hip. That mans sounds like a thug doesn't he?

No he doesn't. It sounds like a man who wanted to be safe. My son also carries a gun for safety and self-defense, does that make him a thug? Also note that this started with a dog that showed aggressivity towards his wife (and himself I think), and he wanted to buy pepper spray in case the dog attacked them, and a police officer told him to get a gun instead, that the pepper spray probably wouldn't be good enough (the dog would have had time to attack them).

That man is George Zimmerman!

You described your prejudiced and media brainwashed idea of George Zimmerman, you described the man you thought attacked a 13 year old boy, you don't know him, and you didn't know Trayvon Martin either, who by the way was not 13 year old and was about 6" tall.

If any of you actually watched the video, I can't believe you didn't question anything. This guy has been patrolling this neighborhood regularly. He has called the police a number of times in the past. Yet he states in his re-enactment that he went through the back way because he couldn't remember what the address was. Apparently he also didn't remember where the street signs were because he couldn't find one. And if you are looking for an address, why are you walking behind the homes. Wouldn't you look on the roadway where you are parked? He just happened to be looking for a sign in the area where he last saw TM. He was looking for a confrontation.

LA99999

He also states they asked for an address of house he was in front of. He conveniently points out the homes to his left where the backs faced TTL, as his reason for continuing toward RVC to look for an address, but ignores the ones to his right that actually face TTL, and addresses were clearely visible...and where he was parked which is what they asked him. He could've easily knocked on one of the doors, one of which was the home of the witness who is HOA board member, identified himself, explained the situation, and asked the street name. Sorry GZ, the pieces just aren't fitting together!

Guess it's no coincidence that GZ first spotted Trayvon right near good buddy Frank 'Laffee' Taffee's house?!

GZ must also have psychic ability...did you hear him say that when he left to go to the store...and "just got feeling something was off"...LOL!!! Poor thing...just PITIFUL!!!

LA99999

He was looking for a confrontation.

I don't think he was, but he may have been trying to see where Trayvon Martin went. In all his other 911 calls, even when actually asked what a guy was doing, he mentioned "I don't want to approach the guy". He didn't look for confrontation with any of the other guys he suspected, and I don't see why this time he would have looked for a confrontation, especially knowing the cops were coming.

And you sound like you really know this area well LA99999, so you know, considering his location in the video, where the closest street sign is? As you said he was a neighborhood watcher, I think he knew these streets better then you.

how can you believe a thing zimmerman says after lying to a judge??? hope you get to hear the 911 call of a neighbor, the screams of terror are haunting, and the voice is younger, hope they can do voice recognition somehow. then it abruptly stops when you hear the gun shot. i believe he had his gun pulled out and tm was fighting for his life, to no avail.

zimmerman has already proven to the court he's untrustworthy, and his word means nothing. he's a liar. you don't think he's scared and lying to protect his butt? i hope they can prove who's screaming on these 911 tapes.

Another thing that is strange is if GZ did somehow manage to get his gun with Trayvon sitting on his chest why was there no defensive wound to Trayvons hands, would he not try to block the gun or hit the gun out of GZ hands, We are talking about a teenager and athlete with very sharp reflexes, it just don't make sense. I don't think GZ shot him intentionally and race played no part in this, what I do think is this was an accident and once he lied he just kept on lying and now this is one big mess, he probably was confronted by Trayvon and seeing how big the kid was he probably pulled his gun to back Trayvon off and Trayvon probably lunged at him and the gun went off, but if that was the case he should have come clean on what happened, people could understand if it was an accident, he would not walk away scot free and probably been convicted of a lesser crime. Now ain't that a great story of what it could be.

Him AND his wife have been arrested for perjury. Anyone believes him why? People who count don't. That's why he is being prosecuted after a long thorough investigation. Trying to conceal over a hundred grand and a second passport as well points to a flee from justice, to another country. ;]

Soooo credible

Cheers

I'm calling this now:

GZ convicted of voluntary manslaughter. Will only get time served.

As far as the bail money goes, who knows.

But the only good that will come from this is hopefully stand your ground gets repealed. You can't take castle doctrine into the streets.

Today's lesson for all the stupid people out there.

911 is NOT the police, they have no authority to tell you what to do.

If they tell you to stop doing something, that is NOT the same thing as a police officer.

Zimmerman did not call the public 911 number. We don't actually know if he was talking to an officer or other representative. We do know that Zimmerman called the non-911 line frequently as stated by the police somewhere in past news reports.

Zimmerman was the Community Watch Captain for the Twin Lakes community. That's important to know because all community watch volunteers have to attend initial tutoring sessions to be registered as a community watch volunteer. If you go to the Sanford PD website, you will see the rules and regulations for their volunteers. Among those regulations (paraphrased) you will clearly see: -Do not pursue suspicious persons... call police. -Persuit is the job of police. -Do not detain or question a suspicious person... you are the eyes and ears of the police dept... not a vigilante. Those are just a few, but an important few in this case. According to volunteer rules, all Zimmerman was required to do was call police, report a suspicious person, give a description, then remain in his SUV until police responded to canvas the area. That's all.

Okay Tom - Plymouth, I'll buy into your argument that the 911 Operator is NOT a law enforcement official and can not legally tell you what to do. Will also agree that George Zimmerman is NOT a law enforcement official and has no business to stop/ detain/ question another private citizen?????

It's amazing how I haven't seen anyone point out the BIG contradiction in Zimmerman's story - The Autopsy Report.

Do the GZ supporters actually think that there is any physical way that the gun shot would have been from "intermediate range" if Zimmerman was close enough to grab Martin's arm??? Cause that makes absolutely no sense!!!

If Martin were close enough to touch Zimmerman's chest then that is what is called a "Near Contact Shot" or "Contact Shot", the next step up would be "Close Range". To get to intermediate range you need to be standing about 24 - 36 inches away from the target.

Which means Zimmerman is lying when he says that Trayvon was right on top of him when he fired the gun shot. There is no possible way that could be true.

The more likely scenario is that Zimmerman got his a$$ kicked, Trayvon finally saw the gun and got up to move away. Then Zimmerman (who has a history of documented anger issues) fired the gun in retaliation. Sorry folks, but if there is no longer imminent danger, Stand Your Ground does not apply here. Even if Martin instigated the physical altercation (which we only get to hear GZ's version), he was not still beating Zimmerman when Zimmerman decided to use deadly force. The autopsy report confirms that. And Zimmerman's testimony has been proven false. Killing someone out of anger is MURDER!

Holding Trayvon at gunpoint til the cops came and pressing charges for assault would have been a better choice.

Be sure to google "current picture of Trayvon." You'll be surprised at what you see. And yes, it is the real Trayvon. Remember too that if Obama had fathered a son it would look just like the picture you find.

Wonder why MSNBC never bothered to show us a current picture of Trayvon. We all enjoyed the baby pictures but........

I reached for my pocket, and I was looking for my phone, and he just punched me in the nose.

Does anyone really believe that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose for no reason at all? More likely, Zimmerman shoved him or tried to grab him and Trayvon punched him in the nose in self-defense. By his own testimony, Zimmerman "fell backwards", probably hit his own head on the sidewalk and that pissed Zimmerman off. So, he got up, pulled out his gun, Trayvon started screaming for help and Zimmerman shot him in cold blood. That seems to fit the evidence more than Zimmerman's "story" (and that's all it is). Zimmerman is a known liar and more than likely is exaggerating everything that happened to fit his story of self-defense when, in all likelihood, Trayvon was the one who was acting self-defense.

MoonWolf99,

Does anyone really believe that Trayvon punched Zimmerman in the nose for no reason at all?

Sadly, a large group of non thinkers believe just that....

in all likelihood,Trayvon was the one who was acting self-defense.

YUP...

Absolutely !

That is a great video walking through what happened in the complex.

TM wasn't just walking home in a straight line !

Excellent video !

Let GZ go now !

So why was he out of his car and stalking, with a gun, an unarmed person in the first place, hmm? Zimmerman initiated the conflict.

Forensics don't agree with his account. Fired at "intermediate range" is not point-blank range. On top of that, anyone with combat experience knows that "pummeling" someone in the face will cause severe bruising, and possibly cuts, on the knuckles... not a "small abrasion...below the knuckle".

He will have difficulty proving his case when the forensic details do not match his account.

This is why we have investigators and court cases, instead of just taking everyone for their word.

OK, OK, we got it; when a civil rights leader gets involved in a civil rights issue one (read: the willfully ignorant) must be skeptical - much like when a religious rightie gets upset over some supposed First Amendment slight or some imagined faith-based assault you should know off the bat to be cautious because those guys only create issues to get worked up over...

AND, if your a teenage kid of color, if your not going to dress up in a suit and tie like a black Muslim to keep the white people feeling secure and safe in there persons (and a imagined 20 foot radius around each of them for added security) FOR GOD'S SAKE (AND THE SAKE OF DECENT WHITE FOLK) walk directly home from any public event, do not look anywhere but your prescribed destination (in fact, you may want to safety pin to your person your identification info, destination, date of birth, and (what the hell, they're gonna ask anyways no matter who you are) your (GOP certified) birth certificate) and walk directly to your posted destination. If you see anyone who is two shades lighter complexion than you a young male of color should immediately get down on the ground, face down with your hands behind your head and legs spread (all the easier for the cops to stop and frisk you - you know the position, don't play coy - even post-mortem, which, lets face it, is how they are going to find you no matter what you do to placate the skiddish knee-jerk NRA-dependents) and begin chanting Miranda until the police arrive (which, face it, is your fault for them coming out for buying a house in a gated community in the first place; don't you know your place in this society by now, boy?) or the medical examiner begins his autopsy.

So to recap- civil rights leaders doing their job: bad; kids of color knowing their place subservient to white personal security: good. Stay classy America, and don't let anyone tell you a racial double standard exists in you, kiddo!

at this point it does not matter much if he was right or wrong, or if his account of what happened is true or not... most of you have already made up your minds based mostly on hearsay and conjecture.

Okay, let me get the time line straight for this:

1. George Zimmerman the armed Night Watchman for the area is on surveillance watch for would be thugs.

2. Trayvon Martin walks by him in a hoodie, not acting suspicious, although he was "looking at houses that had been robbed before", still not doing anything, but to the Night Watchman who already characterized this person as a thug and would be robber and continues to follow him.

3. Zimmerman calls into the Sanford PD relays the situation at hand and is told "Not to follow the "suspect"".

4. Zimmerman continues to follow Trayvon Martin at his own risk.

5. Zimmerman than is confronted by Martin, who at this time thinks he may be assaulted by Zimmerman, turns around and asks Zimmerman, do you have a problem?

6. A scuffle ensues, Zimmerman, who is armed and is "being beaten to within a inch of his life" still manages to draw his gun and shoots Trayvon Martin, yet all the while is saying that he is yelling for help.

To my assesment, he acted as judge, jury and executioner of Trayvon Martin. He should have waited for the real police to get there, pointed out the house he saw the "thug" enter and stood back and let them do their job!

Zimmerman has already proven to be a liar. He should never ever have been there in the first place.

No! Sharpton got involved to bring "media" attention to a case that needed it because had it not been for that, this man would still not be held accountable for murder. The only person in this incident who had the right to stand his groung was Trayvonn!!

Zimmerman's story sounds like a little kid who was caught by his parents. The part that sounds the most idiotic is that all he did to make Treyvon stop was to pinch his arm... then the gun appeared out of nowhere and he shot him. Total lies. Absolutely ridiculous immature childish lie to make things sound like he is a big harmless sweetheart sissy who could only pinch back someone beating them up. ALSO... ever had your head pounded in the concrete? There is no way he could shoot someone in the chest AT ANY RANGE. You'd be more likely to shoot yourself in the face after having your head pounded in the concrete. ALSO... all they found on Treyvon was ONE minor abrasion on a knuckle. Anyone, man or woman, who has been in a fist fight knows that is impossible if what Zimmerman is saying is true. Treyvon's hands would have abrasions and broken skin everywhere. ALSO... what are non-emergency police people when he's supposedly staking out a guy that's suspicious for burglary? What does that matter? The list of the ridiculous things he said is HUGE. Not to mention the 2 women who first saw Zimmerman before anyone else arrived clearly said on television together that they walked up and asked Zimmerman what was going on and he was straddling Treyvon's BACK. The women told the entire world on TV that they had to keep asking for many minutes because Zimmerman just stayed straddled across Treyvon's back without speaking or moving off Treyvon. So essentially if Treyvon was still alive he was being suffocated with a fatty sitting on his back with a bullet in him.

If Zimmerman shot him from the front like he said then why did he crawl on top of an unconcious shot Treyvon FROM BEHIND after the fact to smother him and make his bullet wound worse? Why did he not get off immediately when people asked him what was going on? Why sit there for many minutes not answering anyone's questions BEFORE the police arrived?

Because he started a fight on purpose with his MOUTH and following the kid... then he was losing the fight... and so he shot the kid... then in a panick he smothered him to be sure he wouldn't live to talk... and he didn't answer people asking him questions while he was trying to come up with his story. He's a coward, a murderer, and he's mentally deranged running around playing fantasy cop like he's a super hero in a comic book. Lock him away from me... because HE SCARES ME and under the Stand Your Ground Law all I have to be is scared for my life right?

@ 45charleston...

Yay! GZ told his side of the story so he must be innocent...too bad Trayvon Martin isn't here to give his side of the story. We only have the word of George Zimmerman at this point, a man who has shown to have a credibility problem!

STORM915

You must have ESP. No where does it say that GZ continued to follow TM. That's not what was in the statement originally given to police and not what he continues to say.

Any cop (and yes my husband was one) will tell you that statements taken immediately following a crime are usually "more accurate." People tend to start filling in details and adding embellishments when they have time to think about it.

If you look at what has been released - written, videotape evidence. GZ's story about what happened that night HAS NOT CHANGED--HIS STORY - not what other people are saying he said, we have the videtapes and police recordings to prove what he actually said. The physical evidence, thus far also supports his story.

But yet you refuse to give that any credence.

Guess you had to be a witness to believe anything said--even if existing evidence supports it.

Narrow minded--that's what is wrong with the country today.

What the hell was TM walking in the wet grass for? He was casing houses, that's why. When Zimmeman drove up, TM started acting all huffy about it, circling his car a few times. What the hell? I believe Zimmerman's account. If he wasn't able to pull the gun TM was going for, it would be Zimmerman's funeral that we would be talking about and TM would live to lead his thug life of crime.

Zimmerman should NOT be in that jail. Let him out.

We can argue all day. Granted, there is something that doesn't entirely ring true with Zimmermans' story. This has been pointed out over and over again. The issue no one has brought up is that it wasn't up to the police department to decide, in a matter of hours, whether Zimmerman was in the clear under the law. There was a dead boy, no eye witnesses (just those who heard voices) and a man with a story on who was being threatened. He should have been held for investigation until brought to trial and let a jury hear the evidence and decide if he was guilty or not guilty of murder based on the "stand your ground " law. The police department isn't judge and jury in deciding who is guilty or not guilty of commiting a crime, that is why we have trial by jury, especially when it involves death and the "evidence" is murky.

UHHHH.... Sharpton got involved because he saw an opportunity to get his mug in the news again. He couldn't care less about what happened

His story doesnt make sense, how does he go from the boy sitting on him beating him. To the boy being able to see the gun. He would have had to be like on his legs to do that the story doesnt make sense.

NOT smarty kat, that is the biggest pile of BS on this page today. Your fantasy filled diatribe is so silly, no one can take it seriously. Zimmerman was not on watch that night, he was coming back from the store. And since when is it illegal to watch over your own neighborhood, a neighborhood that had a crime problem? Just go ahead and steal a new HD tv, and get it over with, you don't really have to wait to protest after Zimmerman walks free after his acquittal. I don't know exactly what happened, but from all the present evidence available, there is no way a jury can convict Zimmerman of murder. Remember, to convict, it has to be a unanimous jury vote. If Trayon were white, would you come up with all that preposterous BS? I think not.

If any of you want to read another version of this storyline because msnbc is biased, then go to this website and read what msnbc is leaving out. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/22/us/documents-tell-zimmermans-side-in-martin-shooting.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss And then come back and tell me if you think the investigator is biased also. If he is in your opinion, shouldn't he be removed from the case? Since he obviously has judged Zimmerman guilty.

mguy-478

Forensics don't agree with his account. Fired at "intermediate range" is not point-blank range. On top of that, anyone with combat experience knows that "pummeling" someone in the face will cause severe bruising, and possibly cuts, on the knuckles... not a "small abrasion...below the knuckle".

He will have difficulty proving his case when the forensic details do not match his account.

Actually, the forensics do match his account. I have examined the autopsy report and the other police reports of the incident and don't see any physical evidence that discredits Mr. Zimmerman's account of what occurred.

The autopsy shows a single gunshot wound to the chest surrounded by a "powder burned" area of approximately 2" in diameter. This powder burn would only occur at a relatively close range. It is also noted in the property report from the police crime lab that the victim's outer clothing had a single gunshot hole with surrounding powder burns that were consistent with a "contact shot" where the weapon's muzzle was actually in contact with the garment. Based on these two pieces of physical evidence, the pistol was probably in contact with TM's "hoodie" which was in turn several inches from his skin. The 2" powder burn is typical of a discharge distance of between two and six inches depending on the barrel length of the weapon and the type of propellant used. Since Mr. Zimmerman's pistol had a fairly short barrel, I would expect the actual distance to be about 3" or so.

The serious confusion caused by the "intermediate range" comment is unfortunate since it is very misleading. In this instance, intermediate range can be from a couple of inches out to about four feet. This is the distance where other evidence of the gunshot can be found in the form of powder burns on skin and clothing. Beyond this distance there is very little evidence of powder ejecta. At a lesser distance, there is clear evidence of a contact shot where the inside of the wound shows damage from propellant expansion.

As to your comment about combat experience and hand injuries, most of the hand injuries occur from striking hard areas of the skull or teeth. If these areas are not struck then it is entirely possible that there would be little evidence of skin damaging and bruising. As far as such evidence is concerned, Mr. Zimmerman suffered a broken nose, black eyes and contusions to the back of his head which would also seem to support his story of being knocked down and struck repeatedly.

This is why this case should be handled by investigative professionals who actually know what they are talking about rather than a bunch of media talking heads that watch CSI regularly and now think they are the Sherlock Holmes of the new age. Before you decide to make some smart comment to go along with your previous ones, you might know that I am a retired police lieutenant and that I spent a number of years as a crime scene investigator so I actually do know what I'm talking about.

Ciewywtb42mh6sps-23

You are the exact definition of DRAMA QUEEN!

No one is saying anything even remotely close to the novel you wrote.

GZ was fully justified being suspicious as the neighborhood had been vandelized SEVERAL times recently by kids fitting TM's description. If it looks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks like a duck...chances are it's a duck. Was TM casing the house? Who knows, for the benefit of the doubt we'll say he truly was on a round about course home. The point is GZ though it was supicious that TM was casually walking in the RAIN staring at a house that had ben burglerized. I agree. I would also think it suspicious.

All TM had to do was say, Hey I'm walking home to 222 Main street. My name is Treyvon Martin my parents are XXX. Instead he made a bad decision and tried to act like a tough guy and got defensive.

It is tragic he is dead. Yes. He was a young innocent man. However, GZ is also innocent of the crime he is charged with. He didn't go out looking to shoot any black kid that day. And if you think differently you just aren't thinking.

Get off the poor pitiful black folk soap box. Blacks today have MANY more opportunities than any other race. If blacks cannot make anything of themselves it is no ones fault but their own.

George Z. is such a fake!! I have seen better acting in a Middle School play! I don't feel sorry for trash with 2 feet!!

lol storm915 has been watching too much mainstream media and listening to Al Sharpton for too long. Why don't we all just wait until a trial (where we can hear all the facts) then after you can pass judgement if you want, but nobody right now knows the true story except George.

Here is the facts we know;

1.Zimmerman was not on the line with 911 as originally talked about, he was on the non emergency line.

2.He was originally told to follow Martin at a safe distance (yes read the statement and phone records)

3.He was finally told he didn't have to follow him, and an officer would be on the way.

Although it is not totally for sure, but it does appear that Zimmerman was going back to where his car was parked-when allegedly jumped by Martin after losing sight of him, which is why he got out of his car in the first place because he couldn't see him anymore.

Here are some other indisputable facts after the above first three facts, this is after the altercation is taking place.

4.When a neighbor dialed 911 because she heard what appeared to be a fight, a person could be heard yelling help 26 times in the back ground. Even Martin's father agreed that it was not his son's voice yelling for help after he heard the recording at the police station. I am very proud of him for telling the truth, because most people in his situation would have probably lied.

5.Zimmerman's face had multiple lacerations, a broken nose. Zimmerman's head in the back had multiple lacerations which are consistent with his claim that his head was smashed against the concrete by Martin. This is also an additional fact, Martin, although all you see is the baby face innocent pictures, was much bigger than Zimmerman. He easily could have beaten Zimmerman who was ten years older to a pulp.

6.One bullet wound was found which is consistent with one shot fired. I personally with my police training would have fired more than one shot to save my own life. Zimmerman was apparently on the verge of being hospitalized with serious injuries or worse. It is only a crying wonder that he was not knocked unconscious with the beating he took.

Also, it has been said that only one abrasion was found on Martin's hand during the autopsy. Well, let me assure you that a person of color is much harder to notice bruising. Even repeated blows with your fists will not necessarily show any abrasions. That is just a fact, not meant to piss anybody off, including you racebaders out there who will read this and say I am being racist.

It is also important to keep in mind that the autopsy would have been half assed done so to speak because, the cause of death was already established, and also no charges had been brought against Zimmerman yet due to the lack of evidence of a crime. They would have to look very very hard to see any bruising on the hand of a young black man who was already dead. How the heck do you have bruising after you die anyway? If you do a little research you will know that it is impossible for a body to bruise after death, and this includes Mr Martin's body also. So the lack of bruising argument on Martin's knuckle has no merit. Just punching somebody will not always cause lacerations to the assaulter's hand. Even with punching bare fisted. Above I use the young black man description to describe Martin. If he had continued to beat Zimmerman and killed him, he would have got life in prison or the death penalty, although I highly doubt he would have got the death penalty because he was a black teenager. His people would have rose up in his defense saying it was an accident, and he didn't mean to beat Zimmerman to death. Of course the latter is merely speculation...

7.People keep bringing up the stand your ground law here. Whether or not George Zimmerman approached Martin, or Martin attacked him on the way back to his car, both are totally irrelevant. I will briefly explain why. The stand your ground law is not an issue here, what is an issue is the right of a person to defend loss of their own life. This right comes from God, not from mankind. Privileges come from man, rights come from God, or nature or what have you for all you atheist agnostic types out there. You don't have to have a stand your ground law to defend against possible loss of life. Due to the extent of injuries on Zimmerman it is clear that he was definitely at risk of serious bodily harm or death at the hands of Martin. That is a fact, not an opinion by the way.

People need to know the difference between indisputable evidence and hearsay. The question of whether Zimmerman is a racist or not has been brought up. That is really the whole reason why it has gone to trial in the first place. Had it been a white teenager on the verge of beating Zimmerman to death, this would absolutely be a non issue. It has already happened in the State of Florida, and it will never be in the news, and no charges have been brought against the person who shot an unarmed white teenager. You bet that this so called special prosecutor, who has already been guilty of withholding evidence in the pretrial that would exonerate Zimmerman, will bring up the fact that somebody heard him use the word @!$%# or other racially offensive words before. So he must be a racist correct? Even if he is a self declared racist, it is apparent to me, with all my glorious police experience and training (which most reading this don't have) that there is insufficient evidence for a conviction, let alone a trial.

Zimmerman and his wife are totally guilty of trying to hide money from the judge in the bail hearing, and also using donations for other than court costs. They should get a year in jail for that. Of course George will end up getting time served, because I seriously doubt he will get a second chance for bail. Also, with all the hater and race baters out there, he should stay where he is most safe, and that is in the cross bar motel, if you know what I mean. I hope somebody reads this that I have written and have a better understanding of what is going on, and not be totally caught up in the media circus and people who don't know their butt from a hole in the ground, let alone have a handle on the law.

Storm, you forgot a couple things in the timeline. In step 4, Zimm does stop following Trayvon 5-8 seconds after being told not to because Zimm has already lost sight of Trayvon. He's on the call with the police for another minute plus. Even after he hangs up, there is yet another 90 seconds before the fight starts. Trayvon's house is a straight line less than 30 seconds run distance at the end of the walkway from where the fight is, which is also 10 seconds away from Zimm's car. There are 5 exits from this area in between where the fight happened and his house.

Trayvon was the one who wanted to fight and it happened. You should also know that he had his own youtube channel where he posted clips from his own fight club.

Dasvet,

It is illegal to stalk and kill someone. No one should be following someone if they not the police. As a neighborhood watchmen his job is to report crime in the neighborhood not act like a police officer. He had no right to follow that little boy who was under age with a armed weapon. How many people you know that's not a policeman bring a gun to a store and walk around with gun.

Davset... where did I say George was on watch? I said George has a long history of fantasy behavior where he envisions himself to be a law enforcement officer by proxy... or have you not seen the history of him riding around with cops, playing cop and literally bugging cops until they just want him to go away?

Also Davset... I didn't mention race at all. YOU are the one who can't get over the race thing that doesn't exist in this case. I'm actually Irish, English, Welsh and Native American... and I'm a female 51 yr old middle class person who owns my own home and I already have 4 HDTVs.... I wouldn't know where to put another one if I were so inclined to steal one like you accuse me of wanting to do. LMAO

Stick to the facts... FACT - George displays classic characteristics of antisocial personality disorder:

Lying to avoid accountability

Manipulation of facts for the purposes of avoiding legal process (or the laws in general)

Living a double life - normal guy by day - secret agent man vigilante by night

Feelings of being above the law and not subject to the law leading to amoral behavior

Inability to know right from wrong because he actually believes his right to kill anyone is valid

Accusing his victim of being his oppressor hence the reason he had to harm his victim

Claiming there is a conspiracy against him and he is the real victim

Incapable of sincere remorse, lack of conscience and completely lacks empathy toward others.

Bingo... he's a psychopath... case closed.

Sadly, since Martin is gone forever, we have nothing but Zimmerman's words, even though they sound like blatant lies. The man is already a confirmed liar, about the funds he gathered. Why lie unless you have something to hide? I don't believe his story one bit. Martin had no violent history. Zimmerman attacked a cop. If you're being followed, as Martin was, you're not going to turn around and attack the person following you. Also, Zimmerman's story has changed several times. Which version do we believe?

Zimmerman's entire story makes no sense at all and is not supported by physical evidence. The forensics have already shown that Martin was shot at intermediate range, which would be several feet away. This does not agree with Zimmerman's tale that he shot Martin during a struggle which would have left far more stippling and likely a contact burn from the muzzle on Martin's clothes. Plus he is still trying to claim that he was the one screaming or help when two separate and independent voice analysis experts have said it was not his voice doing the yelling on the tape of the incident. In addition, anyone who has ever been in a fight knows that you hands get messed up. If Martin had been pummeling him like Zimmerman is claiming then Martin's hands would show signs of being in a fight, not one small abrasion. Zimmerman shot this kid because he was trying to play hero and catch the thief that had been breaking into houses in the neighborhood. Unfortunately, he got the wrong person and ended up shooting an innocent kid. Zimmerman is now making up stories to try and cover up what he did and unfortunately Martin is not alive to refute his lies. If Zimmerman's story made sense and was supported by the evidence it would be one thing, but the evidence proves he is lying about what happened and that to me makes him look guilty of murder.

@Kimbo47

And you must have selected memory because although it may not be in the police report it certainly is on the dispatchers recording. Ummmmm I think it went a little like dispatcher: "are you following him? GZ: "yes (while sounding a little out of breath to me" dipatcher" Ah...we don't need you to do that sir. GZ: ( while still sounding out of breathe to me) ok!.

Any cop (and yes my husband was one) will tell you that statements taken immediately following a crime are usually "more accurate." People tend to start filling in details and adding embellishments when they have time to think about it.

And so are lies.....it only takes a few seconds to fabricate a story especially if you are trying to save your ass from going to jail after in fact you've killed someone. Your husband as you've told us was/is a cop not psychologist ( who actually studies human behavior) and is much more of an expert in that subject. George Zimmerman has shown too many time how he can not be trusted to tell the truth. His credibility is too shot for me to believe anything he says. There are way too many wholes in his story. Just my opinion.

He passed a lie detector test !

Lying about the money ?

Lets ee !

What is he supposed to pay his lawyer with , live on etc while this miscarriage of justice fiascle carries on !

There is no probable cause here & good people are suffering because4 of it.

Ask why :ee gets fired when the DA turned him lose based on available evidence?

As the bail judge sais this is a very simple case if you remove thye media BS !

@ louva - first of all... there is a HUGE difference between and abrasion and a bruise. Actually due to many things you say I am convinced that you are not a law officer at all or you are one of the most poorly trained and uneducated that I have seen.

Secondly... If you knew anything about psychology you would know that all you racially hung up people who can't quit talking about racism in this case are the ones who have the problem being racist inside yourselves. It's exactly like the guys who constantly are talking about gays all the time usually are secretly hiding the fact they have gay feelings inside. No one but you closet racist types keeps talking and harping on the race issue. That's a dead horse you keep flogging because you have no valid points to make about why a vigilante should get away with stalking someone, playing cop and shooting them when things backfired.

THIRD... and most important... NO ONE has brought up the fact that George could have just as easily shot a little kid sleeping inside a house if what he said is true. He was wrecklessly endangering everyone. You cannot go out in PUBLIC and just shoot someone when you have aggressively pursued them and it's not going your way because the person is AFRAID OF YOU AND BEATS YOU UP.

Treyvon had just as much right to use the Stand Your Ground Law as Zimmerman.

If you were actually in law enforcement and actually using FACTS rather than Zimmerman's HERESAY evidence... you would know that.

Fishinfool

I have examined the autopsy report

I'm sure you have... because every internet tough guy tells the truth. I also have a Maserati and a black belt in karate. *rolls eyes*

As to your comment about combat experience and hand injuries, most of the hand injuries occur from striking hard areas of the skull or teeth. If these areas are not struck then it is entirely possible that there would be little evidence of skin damaging and bruising.

You obviously have ZERO combat experience and have never been in a fight. Ground and pound tactics, described by GZ, would result in extreme bruising and lacerations. Ever notice that boxers wrap their knuckles when practicing on a heavy bag? That is because even the soft surface of a heavy bag will cause bruising, abrasions and cuts.

You do NOT repeatedly punch someone and walk away with no bruising... unless you are superman.

I am a retired police lieutenant and that I spent a number of years as a crime scene investigator so I actually do know what I'm talking about.

I suppose that next you will tell us you are superman. Everyone is honest online, right?

This is why this case should be handled by investigative professionals who actually know what they are talking about

Which is why I said: "This is why we have investigators and court cases"

LEARN TO READ

You expect me to believe any of your claims when you so obviously fail at simple reading comprehension?

rather than a bunch of media talking heads that watch CSI regularly and now think they are the Sherlock Holmes of the new age

Which is exactly what you just did. Only you did it in support of GZ, so that makes it ok. Oh... my mistake, I forgot you claimed to be a "retired police officer". Let me guess... Fullerton, CA police department? It all makes sense now.

JS, intermediate range is 6 inches to 3 feet away, not several. Zimm has already said that he shot Trayvon at this range. As for the voice thing, those experts couldn't prove/disprove that it was Zimm, even they said it was 50/50. So the voice part means nothing.

Mguy, pretty sure bruising happens from the body's healing process. No blood flow=no bruising on Trayvon.

45charleston... Psychopaths often pass lie detectors. Lie detectors are not effective on people who have emotional damage to the point they cannot even feel remorse, guilt, empathy or other feelings that normal human beings feel. Lie detectors work on the basis of measuring against what a normal human being feels and reacts to. Lie detectors cannot take into account a mentally damaged person who literally has no capacity to feel anything for other human beings.

Let's see what Zimmerman says in the video.... First he starts to answer the question about where he first saw Trayvon Martin, then begins to tell about how it was raining -- and suddenly (at 2:39 in the video) starts talking bout how he was going to the store and how there have been break ins and that he called the police about them... Seems like Zimmerman was trying to "remember" how he thought Trayvon just didn't belong there.

And he thinks he told the person on the "non-emergency line" things? Come on, Zimmerman, you either did or did not tell the them certain things. At 4:24, "I think I gave them the address of the clubhouse". At 6:18, "He had his hand in his waistband, and I, I think I told the operator that".

He ain't really so sure of other things, either... Zimmerman parks at the clubhouse At 4:30 -- "I don't know if the truck was there, but I just pulled up". But he's absolutely 100% positive that Trayvon walked past him while he was parked at the clubhouse....

Zimmerman loses Trayvon, apparently because he was not actually watching Trayvon at that time. At 4:58: "I don't know, I lost - 'cause he cut down here and made a right, guess it's Twin Trees Lane".

A Neighborhood Watch Captain -- who does NOT really know his own neighborhood. Far too many instances of Zimmerman NOT knowing even the names of the streets in his own neighborhood, as shown by his own statement at 6:24, "They said 'where are you?' and I could not remember the name of the street, 'cause I don't live on this street". Zimmerman's excuse is that Retreat View Circle, the street he lives on, "goes in a circle". Come on, I've lived in my current neighborhood less than 1 1/2 years, and I know the names of the streets here.

After Zimmerman said that he thought he gave the cops his address, I stopped watching the video.

Sounded to me like Zimmerman was making up a too much of "what really happened" as he went along.....

storm915,

Watch the re-enactment video. You have it all wrong. Zimmerman never intended to get out of his car. He only got out of his car to get an address on the other side of the complex.

Also, when he gave his statement they had a voice monitor on him. These things are more accurate than lie detector tests from what I understand. He passed. I feel he is telling the truth and at least one eye witness that was there back it up. The witness said he saw TM on top of Zimmerman, MMA style, basically kicking his ass.

They need to throw this case out or try it quickly and move on. Its self-defense.

I don't know why GZ was lying about his bank account.

Cameron Ford,

So why was he out of his car and stalking, with a gun, an unarmed person in the first place, hmm? Zimmerman initiated the conflict.

Did you even read the article or just go off of the Medias perception of this case. It clearly says that at first the cops asked Zimmerman to locate Martin they did not tell him to stop until he told them he was out of his vehicle looking for an address. As soon as they said you don't need to follow him he turned around and when back to his vehicle, where this all took place. He was not slaking him with a gun as you say; his nose was broken before he made the one shoot. That shows he is not some crazy person that was just looking for someone to kill. You can bet your A** if there a bunch of break-ins around where I live and I see someone that looks suspicious I will follow them also. Zimmerman following Martin does not justify Martin breaking his nose. Let; say for arguments sake that he didn't stop following him, is that a reason to have your nose broken. What if Zimmerman was someone you knew would you feel different about what is going on? What about Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and the black panther party putting prices on peoples head over this: they are posting signs that say wanted dead or alive. Now they are calling Zimmerman WHITE when in fact he is of Mexican doesn’t, but also for augments sake say he was black and the KKK or the SKINHEADS put a price on peoples head don't you thing they would be locked up? Of course they would and it should be no different for the black organizations that try to incite violence. Zimmerman had a right to shoot if he felt his life was inciting danger. With a broken nose I say he has proven that. Have you seen the pictures of 17 year old Martin I have and he does not look anything like the 12 year old Martin they keep showing pictures of in the news because if they did it would not be as big of an issue. Martin was a thug. Oh and Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit that means he can have a gun with him in almost any place but on that night he was on his way to the shooting range. So to say he tots a gun everywhere is unrealistic he may never carry but only to the range. You as then why would he have a concealed carry permit well because the law says if you don't have one the gun must be in a locked box and the ammo has to be is a lock box in separate compartments of the vehicle, which is a real pain. It is nice that in America thugs have more rights than law-abiding citizens.

This is why the media doesn’t show pictures of 17 year old Martin. People keep asking who is the real George Zimmerman but nobody is asking who real Travon Martin is it is so funny because as soon as this all started and people seen the pictures that where on Facebook the family says that is the wrong Martin only in the pictures I have seen a lot of them are of him in thug gear flipping people off holding an AK-47 and with a mouth full of gold teeth. Then I have seen pictures of the same guy wearing Travon Martin’s school jersey with his number but nobody seems to care about that MSNBC is the biggest propagandist out there whatever sells is what they will print, a thug version of Martin is not good for their business but Libs aren’t corporate whores tha6t feed of the tragedy on both side. What that is exact ally who MSNBC is. Why else wouldn’t they have the same pictures that I can get, again because it is better to show a smaller 12 year old against a grown man than it is to show the truth and let their readers decide with all of the evidence, no the show on side MSNBC talks about Fox at least Fox gives you all the information more than I can say for your beloved MSNBC.

Kimbo

Your husband married a smart lady !

I see this as lynch mob mentality !

I have never seen such hallucinatory misinformation in my life. People not able to comprehend video & English.

They have GZ doing exactly what the evidence proves otherwise. They conjure up laws that don't exist. It is very scary to me. GZ isn't a killer & I have interview many criminals & he doesn't exhibit any of their traits.

Cameron Ford

TM only has a right to go to the dads girlfriends house. He is legally only an invitee on the PRIVATE gated condo complex. This is not public property.

GZ has the right to approach & question TM.

TM criminally assaulted GZ & that is where the criminal act starts. GZ was clearly a defender & used legal deadly force fearing grievous bodily injury & possibly death.

It matters not is GZ approached TM on private property. Unless there is evidence GZ struck the 1st blow TM is the instigator. Funny how the law works.

Invitees can only enter private property to access a residence directly.

GZ deserves a medal after this plays out !

Meanwhile a 17 year old white kid was pulled into a parking lot of a cafe, asleep in his car in Charleston S.C. one night last week and two black guys just walk up to the car and pump him full of lead...five shots to his abdomen for absolutely no reason at all... they weren't even trying to steal the damn car and they killed him stone dead! It's all caught on tape from a security camera in the parking lot and the poor kid lived long enough to actually tell the 911 operator what had happened,but guess what? No one...not a single living soul has stepped up to the podium and screamed "race killing","he's dead because he's white"! and if by comparison... between these two incidents... a half Hispanic guy who kills a black kid who was allegedly physically assaulting him with no small amount of evidence to support the claim (despite all the emotional conjecture otherwise) and two black guys who kill a white kid for no reason whatsoever, other than he was there...then exactly which of the two were truly "racially motivated"?

I can't wait to see how much national attention that kids death attracts. This whole Zimmerman killed Martin because he's a "racist" crap is a disgusting joke! And one more symptom of just how incurably diseased this country is anymore...allowing the media to push the race card and to perpetuate it to the point of causing near riot with not a single shred of actual evidence to support any racial motivation in the act at all! For what? Ratings? So as not to offend the already constantly offended?

If that man(Zimmerman) is convicted... not for a "wrongful death", but for a "racially motivated wrongful death"... as so many are frothing at the mouth to see done...there is absolutely no justice left in this country at all and we might as well all throw our frigging hands up and surrender! Because all it's done is absolutely secure a future of true racial unrest and bias based simply on a bunch of over emotional speculation fueled by the agendas of zealots who could care less about the well being of the whole as long as they are placated singularly! This whole thing is vomitus!

There are THREE sides to every story-- your side, his side and God's side. God isn't talking, and GZ made dam sure that no one would hear Trayvon's side of the story.

I guess I don't understand how if you shoot someone who is right on top of you there is no blood on your shirt-- or did TM's blood go up when he was shot. I thought blood would drip down from a gunshot. I don't know about gunshots, but I do know that when my cat scratches me the blood runs down.

Shalonda Stirgus

He had no right to follow that little boy who was under age with a armed weapon

LOL....that's right.... "little boy" "underage" treavon with the gold teeth and tattos and the thug moniker "no-limit n**ga"

he was soooo sweet and gentle ...wouldn't hurt a fly, or a busdriver (well, maybe not a busdriver, sorry)

too funny...

....too bad he wasn't smart enough to know that if you assault someone with a gun - they might use it on you - legally

sounds like mr martin was standing his ground with gorge a man he didnt know who was following him

It's amazing how the Martin family has played the public like a violin. Look at the real 17 year old Trayvon and then ask yourself if you would be concerned seeing him in your neighborhood when he was never there before.
The defense will definitely demand a picture of Trayvon just before his death so the jury can get an idea of what kind of concern Zimmerman might have had. He probably wouldn't be too concerned at seeing that 12 year old with his teddy bear in his hands but what about a big guy with tats on his face?
Of course surely the Martin family themselves have released some 2012 pictures of Trayvon by now. Well, maybe not. You can find some on line or just wait for the trial.

Mark Taft,

what about a big guy with tats on his face?

I'm sure you don't really believe those pictures with the tattoo's on the face are really Trayvon...

Here are pictures taken 9 days before he was murdered.

http://globalgrind.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-9-Days-Before-Death-Photo?gpage=1#gtop

Stop spreading lies...

Jo-An its turning out so many of those pictures of are other people. Its sad people go out of the way to photo shop stuff on this boy.

My question is have any of the hang Zimmerman by the neck until dead crowd taken the time to listen to the 911 tapes? I mean really listen to them...not in an attempt to read between the lines,not to question the intent of the wording...but actually listen to his voice. I'm no forensic expert..but after 50 years on this earth i don't have any trouble reading the signs of anger,anxiety,nervousness passivity or rage in the inflections of somebody's speech. This mans voice is calm and collected, intelligible and in no way hints to any sign of potential escalation or violent intention. The other question that needs to be asked over and over again...is why if he had any premeditated intent on accosting,detaining and actually killing Martin..why in the world would he have called the cops before hand and then waited for them to be dispatched before walking up to him and shooting him dead! Who in their right mind with malice aforethought alert the police before commiting murder? And you can spin it any way you like..but there is no evidence of over zelousness,or violent anxiety in that guys voice on that recording ever! I've not seen it mentioned directly, but i've read many posts over the months that hint to the fact his father was a judge in an attempt to suggest some form of conspiricy... as if he wasn't concerned over the outcome of killing a black guy since his old man was part of the "white" good old boy justice system and would keep junior safe...but there is not a shred of evidence to support such a theory and in fact there is more than enough evidence to go beyond speculation to the fact that Zimmerman regularly exibited an unmistakable racial tolerance when others did not. This whole thing walks and talks like a witch hunt and produces a stench of political and societal pressure to produce a predjudicial bad man to appease the hyper dramatic mass's. Last, but not least how did a man who is clearly and indisputably of a mixed ethnic back ground suddenly become the poster boy for "white on black' racially motivated homicide? I mean talk about fabricating a convienient truth to suit the cause! I'm not buying any of it..no more than i bought the bill of goods O.J.'s legal team was selling.

If the mountain of evidence that weighed in on O.J.'S guilt could be summarily dismissed and he walk out scot free,then Zimmerman should get a ticket home about a half hour into deliberations based simply on the monumentous lack of evidence to support his guilt. If reasoning and resonable doubt does not prevail here we are in some serious trouble! There is a tremendous ammount of over dramatized and over emotional speculation being thrown around by both press and pedestrian calling him to the gallows,but there has not been one clear piece of evidence to support the cry! If he is in fact guilty then let justice be served,but if in fact he is foiund guilty and subsequently charged with a racially motivated hate crime then there is no justice!

Yeah right. And his injuries...I'm sure he did that to himself.

JAB his injuries that were not serious enough to see a doctor until the next day? Yeah he easily could have done that to himself!

Zimmerman's injuries are consitant with a fist fight. Where are the choke marks and such that show Martin was out to kill him? Martin's injuries are consistant with a gun fight, only he wasn't carrying a gun.

But serious enough for the first response officer to document in his report which was coroborated by the doctor later.

how the hell do you know were you there? Don't make statements like they are facts when they are not!

"these as$holes they always get away." George Zimmerman Feb 26, 2012

zimmie opened his coat, showed his gun to the kid...what did he expect?

By the way, where's the "he jumped me, while I was walking to my car" story?

would you attack some one with a gun??? No? I rest my case...

The one thing here that you all seem to forget is the police didn't arrest Zimmerman. The Law didn't allow the police to arrest Zimmerman. So now that because this kid is black, the Fed gets involved, put pressure on the State to go after Z. They just fired the Chief of police for doing his job. They are the ones that put this law on the books and now they are having second thoughts about the law. Well its to late for that.

@Vyor Derfa - If people didn't follow children home and listened to Neighborhood Watch guidelines, police dispatchers and commonsense....None of this would have happened!!!

I would attack anyone that looked like they were reaching for a gun when running away from them had already failed to get rid of them.

Your reasoning is very flawed. Try again.

@chuck-2111043 The arresting officer did want to keep Mr. Zimmerman and still thinks he's guilty. It was the prosecutor that showed up out of the blue that said let Mr. Zimmerman go.

Ahh but I don't see any cuts or scabs on his head in this video do you. Possibly they all got healed in a 24 hour period but no scabs indicate fibs!!!!!

Well A, his gun was hidden, and B, I had a fight years ago in wich I broke my hand, and walked around for several days thinking I just jammed something until it got too much and I ended up with a cast because of the injury. Unless your a pussy, you dont run to the medics for everything. I am not saying either, that I know what really happened for I was not there. But I think let the legal system figure it out. Throwing racial crap around all the time just to have an excuse to hate is just getting tired. And I do not agree with the child being shot or anything like that. Nor am I racist. Did I cover everything?

I know this won't change anyone's mind but I thought this little-known fact/item should be included for everyone to consider before rushing to judgment. As we all now know, NBC and who knows how many other news sources initially had this story wrong. Sadly, however, opinions were immediately and concretely based on bad reporting even though the sources were eventually shown to be in error. Later information showed that when the dispatcher told Zimmerman not to follow Martin, Zimmerman agreed and turned around to head back to his vehicle. It was at this point that Martin came after him and attacked him. It should be noted also that Martin was no "little kid"-- in the photos I saw, he was almost as big as his dad who is a pretty big guy. Look how big Zimmerman is. Need I say more! Speaking of violent tempers, before one attacks Zimmerman's temper (BTW, he was just doing his job as a neighborhood watch volunteer), one might consider Martin's temper--he could have just kept walking with his bag of Skittles but he decided to attack what he saw as a short little fellow that he thought he could beat up and that would make him feel good about himself--something he could brag about to his peers. One more thing, about that gun, the police had told Zimmerman to carry that gun for his own protection while doing the neighborhood watch because of dog attacks. That neighborhood had been having problems with breakins and vandalism; I wouldn't be surprised to find out that Martin was one of those involved in that neighborhood problem. Zimmerman had called in to say that the person (Martin) he was following was acting suspiciously. I suspect he was doing something other that just walking down the street eating candy. Sounds to me like he might have been casing some of the houses. Something to think about. Just thought you ought to hear the other side of the story and start thinking outside the NBC box.

I cant watch the vid cause my kids are nuts right now, but if he has no bruises or lacerations on his face after only 24 hours, maybe his story is a tad flawed. If Trevon was a big kid, and was pounding this mans face the way he says he was, I would assume there would be something there to see. I'll have to watch it in a bit.

@ Jo-An -- listen to the entire tape and maybe you'll find it. Oops!!! Not on this site. Not a wonder. It's MSNBC.

Got to love it. "He just punched Me" sob story. Sounds like a 5 year old. I didn't do anything, he just hit me mommy. LOL........awww So does this mean his story of walking back to the car and getting blind sided in the back of the head was a lie? Where are all those people at, who kept saying that was fact?

And what is so clear cut about his statements? The police told Trayvon's father a very different story than Zimmerman stated on this tape. According to Zimmerman, he is getting the crap beat out of him and when Martin saw the gun on Zimmerman, Zimmerman pinched him. Pinched him? Really Dude. Someone who is clearly, according to him pumped up on pure adrenaline subcumes to a pinch? a pinch thru a heavy hoodie. Whatever dude, such a lyer.

Jo-An doesn't not care about anything that shows any possibility that GZ's story is correct. She thinks she is judge, jury and executioner and has CONVICTED GZ'z in her comments in every single story about this case, which have been many. Jo-An lives on the internet and thinks she's up there with the likes of the feisty red head or what her username is that always seems to get the first comment on many stories. BTW she's been accused of being a paid commentor and Jo-An might be one too!!!

"would you attack some one with a gun??? No? I rest my case..."

Not sure what your point is but...

Would you attack someone for nothing ("he just punched me") when your hands are full of Ice Tea and Candy as Mr. Z claims? No

something is fishy in Zimmerman's story. I rest your case..

And the plot thickens--things not as cut and dried as you guys thought, huh?

And BTW, the video on TV this morning clearly shows bandages on the back of GZ's head--look at everything before making comments that are incorrect.

You just heard (if you heard the recording on TV) what came out of his mouth. GZ's own words.

Anything anyone else is saying he said--pure speculation--you literally have the ability to hear it "from the horse's mouth."

So what you think and what you know are two different things.

Remember that when posting.

Oh - and the person who posted about scabs--you are so clueless. With the cuts he had, they don't just materialize scabs within twenty four hours. You've apparently never had anything more than a paper cut.

"BTW, he was just doing his job as a BTW, he was just doing his job as a neighborhood watch volunteer"

BTW as a "neighborhood watch volunteer" He wasn't supposed to be armed.

does anyone believe what this guy says at this point and time? He has lied, attempted to prevaricate his financial situation, spun a story which really doesn't corroborate any logical means as to explain why a teenager, carrying candy and a drink back to his dad's girlfriend's apt to watch a game on tv, would physically attack him. After all, Zimmerman was the aggressor in the event. Probably, (emphasis req) Martin was in fear of his life which is why (if indeed he did) he attacked Zimmerman. The main point in my mind is the fact Zimmerman was instructed by the police dispatcher to "not follow him", and he disregarded that. Nothing said in this report jives with anything believable, nor does it exonerate Zimmerman from killing the kid. Not being an expert on the subject; however, I'm very skeptical that Martin said anything beyond a groan perhaps, after being shot through the heart with a large caliber handgun and at close range. Just more lies which I'm sure will lead to a conviction in a trial with expert testimony as to forensics and physical evidence.

Several thoughts:

Gunshot from an "Intermediate" range...now if I'm on top of a person, punching him, and he shoots me...I'm inclined to thing that would be a heck of a lot closer than "intermediate"...did Zimmerman pull the gun and did Trayvon then back up / off...meaning did the imminent danger threat thus abate to a "I just got my ass beat but now I have the say i.e....better run Mofo... kind of circumstance?"

Now, I don't know what Trayvon said. I don't thing anyone - 911 tape analyzed to the nth degree included - will ever really know what was said. Zimmerman heard what he heard in the heat of the moment and the subsequent effort to justify himself. But I'm inclined to think - remembering the bravado I had as a 17 year old - that if I suddenlty turned and confronted a perceived threat...I'd talk some trash in an effort to bolster my self-confidence i.e. Hey, this guy could be a total wus but he could be Chuck Norris, so it's time to pump myself up...

If I'm walking home to my Dad's house and some stranger has been following / stalking me, leaves his vehicle, follows me on foot and said stranger confronts me...don't I have a reasonable perceived threat level of "imminent danger sufficient enough to defend myself from the stalker?

I'm just glad I'm not scheduled for jury duty in Sanford, Florida.

And the bigots on both sides of the color spectrum will always weigh in with crap! Yes, I would go at someone with a gun, when I can't see it. Yes, its normal to say they always get away with it. Bigots are bigot talkers. On both sides! A man got away with murder a few years ago, solely because of the race card. You might remember that. This is looking like a man might go to prison for a long time solely because of the race card. The overreacting bigots on both sides are an embarrassment to all and need to just shut up and quit trying to promote their bigotted agendas.

"

@ Jo-An -- listen to the entire tape and maybe you'll find it. Oops!!! Not on this site. Not a wonder. It's MSNBC."

Uhhhh it's posted at the VERY top of the story Duh!

That's basically it. You can't be in a fist fight and have your opponent shoot you from intermediate range. That is what, it seems to me, proves that Mr Zimmerman is a murderer.

@Eady: G man meant Trayvon reached down in between his arm and chest for the gun when he pressed his arm down to prevent Trayvon from grabbing the gun.

The number one issue there is with the voice stress test is it gets results differently then a lie detector test and is not 100% reliable. For the simple reason G man was hyped up on meds, which was obvious given his monotonous voice throughout the whole interview showing no emotions what so ever, he was able to give his SYG cover.

"In the videotape, he walked officials through what happened next as he approached Martin."

Dispatcher said not to follow the kid. I was surprised when the prosecutor charged 2nd degree and not manslaughter but she has more evidence than the public.

All of what is being said here has been rehashed again and again and again etc. The reality is that all Trayvon's parents wanted was an investigation into the death of their son. They were not happy with the police department's explanation. As anyone can see, there are enough questions to merit a trial.

We have all staked out our positions for whatever reasons. Mine is that Zimmerman should be convicted of something, I am not sure what, simply because his presence resulted in the death of an innocent child. In other words, Martin was not committing a crime, but ended up being targeted which resulted in his death. That is my opinion and it would be the same regardless of the races of the victim and shooter. But, we have exhausted discussion on this subject.

Now we should let the judicial system work-period.

The police told him not to follow Trayvon, he ignored the police, got out of his truck and followed him anyway, Trayvon ran, Zimmerman jumped from his truck and chased him, a fight broke out, and because Trayvon fought back against his attacker, he was killed and Zimmerman says it was self defense, HOW!!! Self-defense means you didn't want to fight but was forced to- it does not mean assault somebody and when they fight back from your attack you can claim self-defense. Anybody that thinks different, what would you do if it was you that night, and Zimmerman was following you, You ran to get away from him but he chased and caught you, if it was you that night, do you think Zimmerman is right to shoot you???

They said that intermediate range is 1" to 18" So that is anywhere from almost touching to arms length . If someone else has a better description of intermediate range , please let us know.

@skat, establishing GZ's preoccupation with black teenagers is not bigoted but simply prudent investigation. "Shootermans" demeanor should be integral to the prosecution. For whatever reason, his learned response to seeing black teenagers on the street is as he said it "they always get away." People do actually perpetrate crimes based on race. The police, the DA, the judge, the jury and the public need to be open to the possibility that it is what was going on in GZ's mind. To deny it is preemptive to justice not some kind of imagined reverse bigotry.

I will point out that TM legally speacking is an invitee on a PRIVATE condo complex.

He can only go directly to the condo of his dads girlfriend . This is not public property.

GZ on private complex has every right to approach a suspicious person as captain of the NHW.

TM however attacked GZ which is criminal assault unless you can prove GZ attacked TN physically 1st. Not verbally but physically.

There is no evidence that proves probable cause for arresting GZ.

The 1st cops, & DA were absolutely correct in not charging GZ after interrogating him & reviewing the evidence.

Stanford should be ashamed of their conduct !

I truely hope they are rebuked in the strongest terms possible to stop rail roading DA & cops to charge without probable cause. Disgusting !

Gaye:: Yes, the dispatcher told GZ that he needn't follow TM any more and GZ said OK. Just because a guy says OK doesn't mean a dam thing!

And what proof do you have that TM might have been involved in other incidents in that gated community? There were blacks that LIVED in that community and could have been involved in the other incidents-- TM was a visitor. And who said that it was blacks involved in the previous incidents? It could very well have been whites-- or even hispanics-- that were involved. A guy like GZ could very well have imagined that everyone that got into trouble in that community were blacks. Especially if he had a hatred of blacks.

no marks on tm hands doesnt sound like he pummled zimmerman. after he shot the kid maby he did hurt himself its been done before. mr. zimmerman doesnt = judge and jury

Zimmerman was attacked. At least that much we do know.

Zimmerman was attacked. At least that much we do know.

Nope, all we know is that there was a fight, we don't "know" who or how it started...

We only have a known liar's word...it's not worth a dime.

None of that is relavant. It is not illegal to get out of your car, it is not illegal to follow someone. It is illegal to walk up and punch someone in the face and then pound their head into the concret.

You forgot about it being illegal to kill someone.

Stalking someone is illegal. What would you do if someone was following you on a dark rainy night, you get away from them, then there they are again chasing you down? Most thugs up to no good aren't usually walking in the direction of the home they are staying at.

Neighborhood watch, going on all over the country. What planet you from?

This is a clear cut case of self defense. I don't like Zimmerman anymore than many of you do but this isn't a popularity contest.

Within specific parameters, not illegal when you are attacked...have you already forgotten stand your ground? May not like it but it was part of the law, too.

It's not illegal to kill someone if they are trying to kill you.

He was out of his car to see if the person he was watching (Martin) ran out the side entrance or ran down the area between the condos, so that he could relay that info to the police.

It's on the 911 call he placed.

He lost site of Mr. Martin. If you can't see someone and no longer know where they are, how can you still be following them?

It's not illegal to go to the store for candy. It's not illegal to walk back to the home where you've been invited to stay.

Ok he got out of the car to help the police. He follows him and stalks him. I will defend myself against a stalker. My life or his!

And yes it is illegal to get off your car and follow someone in a threatening way if they are a minor like Martin. And if it isn't it should be. I would not want someone following my son in a threatening way.

from what I understand is was walking up to the road sign so he could tell dispatch what the name of the road was that he saw the suspicious person walking down and when he was on his way back to his vehicle Trayvon came up behind him. I'm not stating as fact (like some do) because I wasn't there but that is what I heard was the statement he made to police!

Stand your ground doesn't apply if you're moving your ground after the person. If you're moving away and stop to confront is one thing but how can it be stand your ground when you're going towards? I'm all for defending yourself but you don't seek out danger. Also being part Hispanic doesn't mean you're not prejudiced against another race or ethnicity, neither is being black or Asian.

tlb1974 REALYY? He is the neighborhood watch and he doesn't know the names of the streets in his neighborhood?

Can you say gullible?

He lived there. He has every right to be out of his car. No one can say definitively weather he was on his way back to his car or still pursuing so people need to stop stated that as though they witnessed it. IT has NOT yet been established.

It is not illegal to kill someone if they are beating on you.

Stalking takes days and months to show a pattern otherwise there is no stalking.

Who knew where Martin was going,to the home where he was visiting, leaving the complex, finding the recreational area or casing homes? Certainly Zimmerman didn't know and that is what neighbor watch people do.

Following someone on your private property is not threatening nor stalking.

People are followed and questioned all the time in gated communities, they don't turn around and started attacking the follower.

This case is such a mess but you people need to stop making up stories to fit your wishes and hopes. That is only going to bring you frustration, anger and emotional distress

Its the Great One:

You are absolutely correct it would not be "stand your ground" if you are pursuing someone. However, that is irrelevant here considering Zimmeran was walking back to his car when Martin confronted and eventually assaulted him.

Ian:

It is not illegal to buy candy at a store and go home. It is illegal to assault someone and threaten to kill them and bash their head into concrete attempting to kill them. Hope this clears things up for you.

Justme:

Who told you Zimmerman was "stalking" Martin in a threatening manner? I assume since you know this piece of information that you were present at the scence? I would suggest that since you were there, you should report your news to the proper authority.

And actually, in none of what I've read has it stated anything about how Trayvon was actually acting. Was he legitimately being suspicious (looking in windows of house, loitering, looking around himself like he's making sure nobody's watching, etc) or was he simply walking down the sidewalk. I haven't heard anybody contradicting Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon was legitimately looking suspicious, nor have I heard a second person support that observation either. Was he concerned that something bad was about to happen, and didn't want to lose sight before the police arrived?

If somebody was following me, I would probably run up to one of the houses with lights on, and pound on the door to get some help. I also don't think that Zimmerman would have known Trayvon was heading home if he had never seen him in the neighborhood before. I think it was really stupid of Zimmerman to get out of his car, and I think a lot of this rests on what exactly was his intent upon doing so-did he intend to shoot trayvon no matter what, did he intend to ask questions (like what's your name, where are you going) without resorting to violence, did he just intend to follow without any confrontation? I can't tell the difference between those three based on anything I've heard, and my judgement would be very different for each of those.

@tlb1974 & others trying to say Mr. Zimmerman just got out of his car to see a road sign or help police. You really didn't listen to the 911 call at all. You also haven't looked at where the shooting took place. He was NO WHERE NEAR the road. He was halfway down between homes. He was still following Trayvon. There were no trees or bushes to hide Trayvon Martin from his view. So Trayvon Martin didn't jump out at him. You are ignoring facts to make up your own defense of a man who just now stated he was reaching into his coat and probably showed off his gun to Trayvon before Trayvon threw a punch.

If someone chased me down while I was walking home and then reached for what seems to be his gun....you are damn straight I would throw the first punch to defend myself and keep the man from pulling the gun and shooting me. I am a grown woman. Trayvon was a 17 year old boy. He didn't have the experience to think of something other than to try and keep Mr. Zimmerman from pulling the gun on him.

Stop making up facts that aren't there. If Mr. Zimmerman was doing anything that he said he was doing...he wouldn't have been where he was when it happened. He has proven himself to be a liar and he continues to lie. But in this interview, I believe Trayvon might have punched him in the nose when he saw Mr. Zimmerman reaching for something that could have been the gun that he probably saw.

Zimmerman was dumb. I don't think anyone denies that. Not sure that means he is guilty of a crime. Lets just wait and see, shall we?

THERE WERE NO ORDERS!!!! for the 10,000th time. A dispatcher is NOT a police officer. The exact phrasing was "we don't need you to do that". After that on the tape, GZ says "okay". You can hear his breathing slow down like he's not moving as quickly. He even tells the dispatcher that TM is checking him out. To me, that means that TM is now following GZ which makes TM attacking GZ plausible.

And for those on this vine that think that Second Degree Murder is the ONLY charge, you would be wrong. This charge includes ALL lesser charges according to the attorneys that I work for.

I think that until any of you people have lived in a place where the police don't do there job. Or because of budget cuts can't do there job, then you take things into your hands and you do a watch program. I have been in that place where Z is not. No gun and no one got shot. But I was confronted by a car load of kids and when they started damaging my Truck, Me and my partner got out and fight was on. The Police had been called. But these same punks had been causing trouble for weeks and the police just didn't do anything about it. The mother of one of the kids said we were the problem. If we would have just let them alone this wouldn't have happened. But the problem is the police do not want people to do watch programs. So right off they had a hard on for me and my partner. This was like 2am. These kids were breaking the law by just being out at that time. The would race through out streets, doing property damage. Take baseball bats to mail boxes, and we cough them red handed. We called the police and it had been well over 30 mins. We followed the car and they wouldn't leave the Sub. Then the just stopped the car, got out with bats and started hitting my truck. We got out and stopped them. I will be honest, we beat the hell out of the four kids. They had it coming and we gave it to them. But We got arrested, but the next day the charges were dropped. The police had no right to arrest us. As always the arrest the wrong people.

@Corky-3849596 - You want to make any person of reason think Mr. Zimmerman was stalking him in a menacing manner? Let's see, Mr. Zimmerman says himself that Trayvon started to run from him. If someone is walking along until you start chasing them, that would make you menacing.

@Chuck-2111043 He lived in a gated community and no where have I read they had a high crime rate. A few break-ins, but not a high crime rate. But even Neighborhood Watches have rules that Mr. Zimmerman broke.

"None of that is relavant. It is not illegal to get out of your car, it is not illegal to follow someone. It is illegal to walk up and punch someone in the face and then pound their head into the concret."

Ahh it can be and is when Police tell you not to. And its not illegal to Stand your Ground in FL and punch a gun totting nut if he is following and threading you with said gun.

Please tell us you're not a lawyer.

Try this on for size!!! So many talk about TRayvon as if he was this innocent little 12 year old sweetie pie who was stalked by the big bad wolf. Trayvon had been suspended for the ..count em' now, not 1st, not 2nd but 3rd time in one school year. Mom sent him to dad because he was OUT OF PARENTAL CONTROL with mom. Whatt parent in that situation doesn NOT buckle that kid down tight, ground them and make sure the are behaving!!!!! I guess the kind of parent Trayvon had was the kind that goes right ahead and goes out an parties with his girlfriend, doesn't come home to the wee hours of the night, as he never saw the police all over the neighborhood that night. We he gets home he has no idea where his kid is and apparently doesn't care until much later. Then we have mommy dearest trademarkeing his name. Where's that stash of cash going?? NO stories on that???? Go read the article that is specifically about dad that came out yesterday!! SO damn many inconsistencies in his stories it makes GZ look like a chiorboy!!! How's about this family take responsibility for their "little boy"???? Where was the discipline??? why was the kid out alone in this strange neighborhood where he knew no one and no one knew him in this neighborhood?? Again, if dad had stayed home or just plain GROUNDED Trayvon he would still be alive today!~!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"A person who intentionally and repeatedly follows or harasses another person and who makes a credible threat, either expressed or implied, with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm is guilty of the crime of stalking. A person may be charged with aggravated stalking if they commit the crime of stalking while subject to a temporary restraining order, injunction against trespass, or similar order."

Legal definition of stalking. So let's stop trying to beat that dead horse now; Mmk?

Devdoc12able

None of that is relavant. It is not illegal to get out of your car, it is not illegal to follow someone. Iis illegal to walk up and punch someone in the face and then pound their head into the concret.

It most certainly is. Especially if he followed him and reached for something in his pocket (phone or not). If someone is following me, walks up to me and begins to pull something out of their pocket - game on.

Did someone say there was a shooting in Sanford, Florida? I haven't heard a thing about it.

I find it very difficult to believe that he did not know that he shot Trayvon.Only later did he realize that he was shot..Bull he knew it from the second he pulled the trigger. But that is MHO.

Another Point of fact is that he though M may be dangerous because he wore or put his hoodie up. Evidently Z has not shopped for a while for too many shirts these days are HOODIES.

Z based his decision to follow against orders because M wore a hoodie. Z made a poor and unprofessional or mature choice when to follow M and the consequences were deadly!

Dandy416

Devdoc12able

None of that is relavant. It is not illegal to get out of your car, it is not illegal to follow someone. Iis illegal to walk up and punch someone in the face and then pound their head into the concret.

It most certainly is. Especially if he followed him and reached for something in his pocket (phone or not). If someone is following me, walks up to me and begins to pull something out of their pocket - game on.

Oh my God! I hope you never visit downtown Chicago at noon. You'll think 50 people are following you and you'll pull out your UZI.

It might not be illegal to follow someone, but if you do and that person feels threatened by you, then by following, YOU (or in this case Zimmerman) have caused a situation that was avoidable HAD YOU NOT followed. He was even clearly directed by law enforcement to cease his pursuit of Martin. If a person followed me in the same manner as Zimmerman followed Martin and I felt threatened, I might eventually feel the need to defend MYSELF from the person following me. How should I know what their purposes for following me are? They could be trying to rob me or worse..

When you don't have eye witnesses, and even then there can be misunderstandings, then you have to use ALL the information available to come to the best conclusion. An example of this is experts saying Trayvon was shot at a very close range, likely within arm distance. Do you think Trayvon would have seen a gun being held that close and then decide to punch Zimmerman? No, That would be stupid. Therefore I would believe he didn't think Zimmerman had a gun when the altercation started. I feel Trayvon would either try to knock the gun away or turn around and run. If he tried to knock the gun away the likelyhood that the shot would have been directly in the center of the chest is very slim. And if he turned and tried to run it would also not be in the center of the chest. It would have been in his side or back. So although the possiblity of him trying to knock the gun out of Zimmerman's hand or trying to turn and run is high the probability that he did either of those is very low.

People did report that they saw two men fighting, one on top of the other. It doesn't matter who would have been on top because had Zimmerman shot before they got into a fight then there would have been no fight and therefore no one would have seen two men on the ground fighting. Therefore it's undisputable that the shot was fired AFTER they were on the ground.

It's examples like these that some have a hard time understanding OR they refuse to accept some facts. Being shot at a very close range was a fact. It was a fact, based on eyewitness that the two were fighting, one on top of the other.

The only conclusion anyone could draw from this IF they think Zimemrman shot Trayvon on purpose, and not out of self defense is that Zimmerman somehow got Trayvon on the ground, got on top of him and with a free hand got out his gun and shot Trayvon with that free hand. The possiblity of him doing that is very low and the probability of him doing it is also very low.

AppeasersFate

Oh my God! I hope you never visit downtown Chicago at noon. You'll think 50 people are following you and you'll pull out your UZI.

Except we are not talking about downtown Chicago. Get a clue.

Trayvon wasn't scare of Zimmerman, if he was he would have ran to a house and asked for help. And he might even have known Zimmerman was patroling the area, from Trayvon's reaction I believe he had a chip on his shoulder about authority figures and was pissed he was being looked at. In any case, you don't beat on someone and threaten to kill them unless you fear for your life and I doubt that was the case with Trayvon, just a stupid kid. May the truth be known no matter what the outcome.

Lu -

It's never a good idea for a young black male to run up to a stranger's door and start pounding for help. He's apt to get shot as an intruder.

This just goes to prove to law enforcement officers..you only need one bullet to stop them.

S Jr - the word is whether.

lynesypug, now that would have been murder, you don't need to open the door just the window, and ask someone to call police, also he was talking to his girlfriend he could have asked her to call police if he was scared, I believe Trayvon was not scared of anything, I think he was a hot head.

Mindless brain leakage here. This is not twitter. NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH is just that...a suveillance only program which none of you obviously have a working knowledge of. How many times does the evening news programming describe the substance of the Neighborhood Watch Program before you hold a tiny grasp of its function? The issue IS WHO PERSUED WHOM in this case. Apparently, TM was 120 yards from his residence at the time he was killed...four blocks away from GZ's PARKED VEHICLE and around two turns so the vehicle was not even in sight! How stupid are you idiots? God help you in even knowing some hint of the Laws in your municipalities as far as what constitutes an unlawful killing. "Dispatchers" must be able to take control of emergent situations in order to be DISPATCHERS until the appropriate personnel respond! Where do you hayseeds live? Obviously outside of education. If GZ suffered such life threatening injuries, why did he refuse to be transported to an ER? A broken nose reveals a deviated defect for life because the nose cannot be "set" orthopedically. He also risked a possible out of control subcranial hemorrage if his head was thrust into the ground with such force. If he could not understand this as explained to him by EMS Professionals, he did not think much of his own well being at the time...state of mind? Does not appear that he had control of any reasonable rational thougts. If his MD was a good GP, he would have prescibed an anxiolytic for him on the spot and follow up visits would have been scheduled on a daily basis by himself or an NP/PA. There is much here the public knows nothing about and when GZ is prosecuted and must answer for his actions, inconsistencies will be revealed. His response patterns will be also be examined.

I can see many of you have never actually been in any type of physical fight before. I can tell you from personal experience, when you are in a physical fight with someone, what seems like several minutes is only 2 seconds and what seems like a did not exist lasted several seconds. It is extremely easy for someone to have shot a person and never see the bullet enter a body or know they hit their target. This stuff is not a Chuck Norris movie. You do not get to see ever punch or bullet coming and are able to catch the fists with you pinkie or bullet with your teeth. I would easy believe that physical altercation part that resulted in the death of Trayvon Martin would have lasted no longer than 10-15 seconds.

I do have a question for the parents of Trayvon Martin though. How was it that a child that was suspended from school 3 times in one year, and that last one being for the possession of illegal drug material, was allowed to leave his room after dark, let alone walk by themselves down to a corner store? And still have a phone to talk to his girlfriend with? I mean, my parents grounded me for 3 months for getting a C in school one time.

And another thing on the hoodie, I love the fact that one of the "bad guys" in this years current highest grossing movie (aka Avengers) wore a "hoodie" as part of their costume. Yet we cannot except that a dark clothed person in the night time with a hood covering their features can produce general flight/fight responses in every single person in this country. Should it be the case that anyone can wear what they want without having some pre-judgement occurring? Yes. But this is the real world not fantasy island. We all judge others based on what they wear. We do it every day. Ever walk into Home Depot and asked a person with an orange shirt where some pant is located? Even though that person may not be a Home Depot employee and that orange shirt is some mud volleyball T-shirt?

If Zimmerman had listened to the instructions of the police dispatch, Trayvon Martin would be alive...

This just in---- Walking while black will get you killed in FLA. and all the rednecks will say you had it coming to you. Oh this is not news it was in the south where you would expect this kind of ignorance.

Richard you forgot a comma--

Yet we cannot except that a dark,(this is the comma that you missed) clothed person in the night time with a hood covering their features can produce general flight/fight responses in every single person in this country.

Martin be alive too..if he just asked Zimmerman what he wants instead of attacking him.

One prargraph says that the dispatcher told Zimmerman to follow Trayvon so he could see him, and the next paragraph said that they instructed him not to follow. I believe that the initial instruction never happened. Also, If Zimmerman was the one screaming for help, and was not even aware that his shot hit it's intended target, then why did he stop screaming as soon as the shot went off? Because he is a bad liar, and thankfully these bits of audio will convict this murderer like he deserves.

The question that keeps bugging me is this: If Trayvon had killed Zimmerman would he have been allowed to walk free too? I mean, you're walking around in the neighborhood where you're living, some creepy dude starts following you around and eventually reveals a gun, isn't he justified if he tried to fight this creep off? Sounds like Stand Your Ground means if two people get into a fight, either one can just kill the other with no repercussions just because they felt "threatened".

Stephen where did you read or heard that Zimmerman showed his gun before he was attacked...making up your own ideas like the media? There was no eye witnesses about anything that happen (only the cell phone recordings) and one person is dead.

Be a idiot to go at a person holding a gun at you.. and you attack them with your fists only..think hard about that!

What difference does it make when he showed his gun? What difference does it make if he had a gun? It's stand your ground, Trayvon had the right to defend himself if he felt threatened, right? And if he was in the middle of a scuffle and the creepy guy showed his gun, he certainly had grounds for feeling his life was in danger. "Be a idiot" to shoot a teenaged boy for punching you, "allegedly". Think about that.

Have any of you seen the picture of the real Trayvon at age 17? Wow, the media is pulling a number on us all.

Mark, what does Trayvon's appearance have to do with the fact that he was breaking no laws? And people like you and Mike in this thread are making the assumption that Travon provoked Zimmerman, when there is no evidence of this. So Stephen's question is valid. Nobody knows if Zimmerman provoked Trayvon initially by trying to detain him, at which point Trayvon would have felt threatened and defended himself as he is legally allowed to do. But you guys are blanketly saying that this did not, and could not have happened because the guy who fired the shot said so.

Zimmerman was the adult, he had the concealed weapon, he was the neighborhood watch. He failed miserably at all 3 of these things.

It's neighborhood watch, not neighborhood confront. Zimmerman did not identify himself up front, and was actually confrontational to Trayvon. "What are you doing here!" instead of, "I am with the neighborhood watch. Do you live in this neighborhood, or have relatives or friends here?". You are not supposed to be armed as a neighborhood watch personnel. As an adult, you should just know better. FAIL FAIL FAIL. And now he pays the price.

It is not illegal to die. Martin broke no laws in dying. But to assume Zimmerman is guilty is crazy. If Martin's actions contributed to his death(they did- he attacked Zimmerman violently), then Zimmerman did not commit murder...manslaughter is worst possible outcome for him, and even that is a stretch.

Mark Taft,

Not only was there a shooting in FLA., there's also a perverted assistant Penn State football coach on trial for molesting 10 boys. Just so you're not blindsided.

Whatever became of the African American carjacker who murdered two innocent white people about a month ago? It made the headlines here, but I haven't seen MSNBC follow up. Black on white crimes don't play out with most readers I guess.

By what I am hearing and reading it seems that Trayvon was on a wrong path in his short life. I am sad that he was shot and killed but some of the comments is like Trayvon was so innocent that he could not have done what Zimmerman said happened. Maybe parents should take more interest in their children who are heading down the wrong path and try to help them see the right way and things like this will not happen. But it is strange that I am not hearing or reading about the 7 murders in Chicago black on black crime this last weekend and the one before it was 9 murders. Just my observation!!!!!! Where is the outcry from Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson about this?

If TM felt "threatened" why did he attack GZ? And why would TM feel threatened in the first place. GZ wasn't stalking him. He approached the kid asked him what he was doing. I guess I can't approach someone and ask the time anymore without feeling threatened?

Could GZ have handled the situation a little better? Sure. but the outcome would still be the same because who would think that walking up to someone and asking a question would warrant getting the crap beat out of them? TM made the move that turned this into a disaster. Period.

GZ asked him what he was doing in a non threatening manner. He didn't say, "hey you good for nothing kid what the hell are you doing here?" TM could have civily just stated, I'm Treyvon, I am staying with Dad over on 123 Main street. Just walking home." Did he? No. If he had GZ probably would have accepted it (and verified it) like a normal neighborhood watch guy and been done with it.

The fact was GZ saw a young kid WALKING in the rain in a community where there had been break ins recently. He was merely doing his job as a neighborhood watch guy and reporting it.

And just FYI, it is EVERYONE's right to bear arms. The fact that he is a neighborhood watchman means nothing. He wasn't on official patrol that night. Just saw something suspicious and decided to report it.

Am I saying GZ has no fault...no they BOTH are to blame. The problem is this has been turned into a black/white thing and it shouldn't have and GZ is charged with a crime he flat out didn't commit.

Okay! We get it! Jesus.

-It's not illegal to follow someone.

-It's not illegal to walk down the street

-It's not illegal blah blah blah we know.

What was illegal here? Assuming what Zimmerman said is true, he was in the right. Of course it was stupid to follow him. But he didn't break any laws. If we put people in prison for stupidity, half the people reading this would be convicts.

I also don't believe Zimmerman followed him with the intention to kill him. If he wanted to kill him, he would've done that before the fight took place. Not too many cold blooded murderers scream for help before they kill someone. You could say that Zimmerman lured him into a position where Zimmerman had to defend himself, but you'd have a hard time proving that.

'

"Voice Stress Analysis (VSA) technology is said to record psychophysiological stress responses that are present in human voice, when a person suffers psychological stress in response to a stimulus (question) and where the consequences may be dire for the subject being 'tested'.^[1]

In the Detection Of Deception (DOD) scenario, the voice-stress produced in response to a Relevant Question ("did you do it?") is referred to as psychological stress or 'deceptive stress'. No DOD technology can detect a lie or truth unequivocally. It is the fear of being exposed to the question being posed that produces the 'high stress' voice signature, aka voice graph or voice tracing."

GZ passed this test which is strong evidence that he is telling the truth. It isn't permitted in court but many prosecutors use it to eliminate suspects.

Cases are decided on Reasonable Doubt based on the Preponderance of Evidence. GZ will never go to trial.

Trayvon was talking to his girlfriend on the phone, and she HEARD zimmerman come up to Trayvon and ask him what he was doing there. It is zimmerman's testimony that he was walking back to his car and had not said anything to Trayvon, when Trayvon came up behind him, said nothing at all and just punched him in the nose?? Those sound like very different circumstances. Was the altercation right near zimmerman's car? If not, exactly how far away from his car did he need to get to read the street sign? If Trayvon punched zimmerman multiple times, how is it that he had no injuries to his hands??

The girlfriend further testified that she told Trayvon to run, and he did so, only to be confronted by zimmerman and then shot.

"The girlfriend, whose name has not been made public, told Assistant State Attorney Bernie de la Rionda that Martin got away from the man, who turned out to be Zimmerman, but only temporarily.

He was out of breath from running away and scared, she said, and decided not to keep running because he was close to the house where he was staying.

And as Zimmerman drew closer, the girl said, Martin called out, "Why you following me for?" according to the recording.

"I hear this man, like this old man, say, 'What are you doing around here?' " the girl said."

So much of what he claims he said to the "non-emergency" police dispatcher is not on the 911 call! He's trying hard to craft a convincing on-the-fly account that would justify stand your ground. It doesn't add up and in fact is incriminating. I'm not stupid and neither are the prosecutor or the judge.

Under the Stand Your Ground Law... If someone is following you in the night when no one else is around and you are afraid for your life then you have every right to beat them up to the point of killing them.

I dare anyone to prove that Treyvon was not valid in using the Stand Your Ground Law FIRST.

@letshavesome, have you listened to the 911 tape? I don't mean read the transcript, I mean listened to the tape. There is clearly a racial epitaph muttered almost under "shootermans" breath but clear enough to understand. The edited transcript omits this comment as unintelligible but it is clear enough for me AND YOU to hear and comprehend what is said. That is why there is much attention to racial profiling in this case... because there is! So, lets have some logic and some admittance.

OK, we have Zimmerman's side of the story, now we need to get Martin's side, oh wait he was murdered....

Is it6 true ignorance is bliss ?

And WHY was Zimmerman firing a gun that could have missed and shot anyone inside the houses?

If Zimmerman's bullet killed someone inside the houses who would be the hero then?

You can't tell me that it's okay to put everyone's life in danger just because you got yourself into a dangerous situation simply because you can't mind your own business and let cops do their job.

This reminds me of the people who crash on the freeway because they simply cannot miss their exit ramp so they kill others because they simply cannot let 5 minutes of extra time go and deal with being late. Same stupid excuse and irrational nonsense. Can't let Treyvon get away with doing NOTHING! MUST PURSUE... because he just MIGHT be a robber. Put everyone in danger of their lives from GEORGE not Treyvon. Even in Treyvon robbed something that doesn't KILL someone! This idea that material items are equivalent with a human life is just SICK SICK SICK.

I've listened to the tapes, and comparing the tape that occurred during the events he is describing - it just doesn't match up.

Also, why would you need to exit your vehicle for a street address? That doesn't make any sense. It seems to me he's trying to cover up why he was actually out of his vehicle.

@...and the horse you rode in on.

Yes I have heard it and I for one can't make out what he said. Racial or otherwise. You hear what YOU want to hear.

If you listen to the entire tape you'll hear the Dispatcher ask him what TM's race is and that is when he says he's black. GZ didn't bring up the race card. Al and Jesse did. You are falling right into their hands.

I've never heard so much bull crap in my life. The killer followed the kid and killed him. The rest is on his word. What else we know is he was advised not to follow him. The kid's school record has no bearing on this case.

Try walking up to me near my own house, not show me a police badge, confront me and ask me what I'm doing and you may likely get punched out.

The ovewhelming truth is the kid had every right to be there, was commiting no crime. The a-hole was gun happy. What was he defending?

Those of you that want to put this on the dead guy are full of crap.

I do have to agree with some who point out that Martin was bigger and older than most of the photos that have been released of him, and I agree that Martin had been in trouble and probably had an attitude.

That being said, I have had concealed carry permits in three different states (not Florida), and there is a simple common rule that you may not initiate an altercation and then claim deadly force was justified. You can't slap Chuck Norris and then shoot him because he was kicking your butt. Despite what may or may not have been "good intentions" on Zimmerman's part, the fact is that he caused the altercation. He had no legal authority to apprehend or detain Martin, as Martin was not committing a violent or felonous act when he spotted him. If he had spotted Martin attempting to break into a home, it would have been a completely different situation.

One last point. The shooting took place on a pathway behind two rows of homes, some distance from the street. I find it hard to believe Zimmerman left his vehicle to look for a street sign or house number for the police when the altercation took place behind the homes. It seems obvious he was following or pursuing Martin on foot (or had been) when the altercation took place.

While I doubt Zimmerman had any intention of killing Martin until the situation escalated, I believe the simple fact is that he inititated a situation that subsequently placed him in danger. I wonder if Zimmerman would have been as agressive initially if he had not been carrying a handgun.

@letshavesome,

Like you said you hear what YOU want. I think it will be a fairly easy argument to make that GZ had a problem with black teenagers, not because Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson says it, because he says it with his words.

Directly from the transcript in chronological order in a conversation that was 4 minutes in duration:

"we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood and there's a real suspicious guy..."

"he looks black"

"a dark hoodie, a grey hoodie"

"looking at all the houses"

"now he's just starring at me"

"now he's coming toward me"

"he's got his hand in his waistband and he's a black male"

"these as$holes they always get away"

"he's running"

"fu*king (epitaph)"

George convinced himself that Trayvon was a hoodlum out to get him. You believe what you want and I'll seek justice.

@ Chicago David....

Ever hear the phrase justifiable hommicide? Didn't think so...

question should be , why didn't he just roll the window down and Identify himself as a Neighborhood watch and ask him if he was staying in the community, he was on the phone at the time, if for some reason Martin wouldve confronted him there than I would say that he was up to no good, but Zimmy didn't do that did he? no he hung in the shadows, stalking him, i can only assume waiting for him to commit a crime of some sort. This was no case of "self-Defense" because if he acted properly as a "Neighborhood Watch" then the Police wouldve arrived, talked to Martin, Found out he lived there and everyone would be fine

Hey Blackeast, ever hear of Negligent Homicide? seems that's what the lead investigator that night wanted him charged with!

@ Pipo... Zimmerman also had the right to be there... so you don't have a valid point.

Martin used violence against Zimmerman, this is why he is dead. People confront others millions of times a day world over and nothing comes from it. But when they turn to violence, this is an example of the outcome.

@ "and the horse you rode in on": I absolutely agree. I think that the case will hinge on the fact that Zimmerman DID NOT stop following when ordered to by the dispatcher. When he ignored that instruction, he became a vigilante AND he created a serious situation where there was none. I believe that Zimmerman's predjudices caused him to go after Martin. It's very clear by the quotes you've included.

Back East

Do you imagine the kid assaulted the killer because he was there too? Only the two of them were there. The most telling thing I've heard from this blog is that Zimmerman claimed he was on the ground being beaten so he shot the kid. Where did the blood go? It should be all over Zimmerman if he was under the kid as he said. Didn't Zimmerman say the Kid was running away from him? Didn't the killer say he was looking for a street sign in an area where he lived? What the hell is wrong with you?

I'm not accusing anyone in particular of being racist but if the races were turned around and the black guy shot the white guy, where would you be on this topic?

hearts:: You said that the dispatcher told GZ that they didn't need him to continue following TM. You said that GZ said OKAY. Sometimes the word okay doesn't mean a dam thing. And in this case, the word okay didn't mean a dam thing.

LOL...GZ told the investigators he "wasn't following" Trayvon, after he was told not to...he just happened to "be going in the same direction"...really...truly..listen for yourselves:

http://gzlegalcase.com/documents/statements/audio_interview_0229_3.mp3

Pippo:: I have wondered about the absence of blood on GZ's shirt also. I had always thought that blood would drip down and not drip up and disappear into thin air. Guess the times my cat has scratched me has proved something wrong-- my blood ran down.

Bob fu, and there was also the story about the four blacks who murdered the son of a convenience store and the son's two cousins in cold blood. At least two of the four had just been released from prison. That was another story MSNBC covered for a whole five minutes and then it vanished.
Kind of wonder what's going on here.

I'm just saying..., Trayvon was murdered. He was killed while attacking Zimmerman. There is a difference.

Trayvon was murdered!

@mark, and the story of Mrs. "shootermans" arrest. Yeah, what the hell is going on here?

"24 hrs after the incident. Thats enough time to get some coaching"

And when your father is an ex judge you have a pretty good coach.

GZ failed to respond as a reasonable ADULT period regardless of TM's adolescent issues. GZ was the more experienced adult. GZ was not a trained Law Enforcement Officer...he failed entry into the cadet program. GZ carried a loaded gun. GZ had an overwhelming desire to shoot someone. GZ created the situation whereby he could carry out that experience weather he considered TM an immediate threat to his well being or not. Apparently the Judge who revoked GZ's bail said it best "GZ has no respect for the Law or its authority."

Where are all of the Zimmerman defenders who have been claiming that he was assaulted from behind now? They were all so adamant that Martin blindsided him. How much more condemming evidence has to come out before they will accept that this guy murdered a kid. Also, Zimmerman claimed to be yelling for help, but stopped as soon as the shot rang out. This is highly unusual, and much more likely that Trayvon was the one yelling for help as he was killed. The story is falling apart Zimmerman...

I don't understand why Z didn't identify himself as part of the N. Watch when Trayvon asked him if he had a problem. Then, why would anyone in a face to face confrontation reach into their pocket without saying: I'm going to get my phone out of my pocket....Anyone that was being followed by a stranger would likely think that they were reaching for a weapon. Also, Trayvon was shot in the heart with a 9mm--Zimmerman was supposedly on the ground under him. Z should have been COVERED in blood. Litterally soaked. At close range, the back spash would have been impressive. This didn't have to get to the point that someone got killed. Did Trayvon probably put on a tough guy attitude? I'm sure he did. Could Z have diffused the situation by saying: "There have been a lot of break in around here lately and I didn't recognize you. Are you from around here?" When TM asked him if he had a problem. His answer did nothing to allay any fears. A reasonable person would have thought Z was a pervert. BTW...Both Hispanic and Black people do bruise and it can be seen on autopsy....Who ever said that it would have been missed, clearly, has never seen an autopsy. Z should have had a swollen face if he had been "pummeled" as was discribed. The cuts on the back of his head didn't even warrant a bandaide...They were surface abrasions...Not even close to getting his head "bashed in on the concrete." Once again, the question to ask is: "If it were not for the actions of Z, would Trayvon Martin be alive today?" I believe the answer is Yes, he probably would be. Z just needed to act like an adult and answer the boy's questions as to why he was following him....and do so quickly without reaching in his pocket. That was really, really stupid.

That's why they fired the police chief in Sanford... he's a moron with no IQ worthy of speaking of.

Interesting that although he was a Neighborhood Watch organizer, according to his own narratives, at no time did Zimmerman ever identify himself as a neighborhood watch. Seems that might have prevented a beating and a killing. Wonder why he never brought it up ?

That was the top story yesterday. Stop your internet trolling!

u do know that F&F was started under G.W. Bush right or did fox news leave that out.

enough of the " hate america" because i am a anti american progressive socalist democrat! Just because you want Obama reelected at any cost does not give you the right to lie about it.

Fast a Furious was a Obama / holden operation that took place under a investigation started by Bush. The actual Fast and Furious was all Obama!

Everything else this man has done has been a failure why should this be any different?

MSNBC has had a number of stories on F&F. In fact, they had a story that the they updated throughout the day yesterday about the contempt hearing in the committee. But you just want to be off-topic and make a non-political story political.

Troll.

Ohh, the Blame Bush crowd is here as usual. Do you honestly even believe yourself talk, or just like to say what you want to hear. If F&F was "Bush's Fault" why has the MSM barely talked about it, and why are Obama and Holder throwing every wrench in the system they can at every possibility? If this HAD happened under Bush's watch people like you would have been screaming your heads off calling for impeachment, instead the best you can do is say "well it is really still Bush's fault" because Obama is the President.

What ever happened to being a man and having some honor. Holder should have at least offered to step down as AG as soon as this thing saw the light of day, I would argue if he DIDN'T know anything about this happening under his watch, that would be even more personally embarrassing, and if he did know about it, that is downright unforgivable.

You are right though, there was a good story about F&F on here yesterday, almost a year after it started. You cannot argue that the coverage of the story has been much less on left leaning media outlet vs right leaning outlets, and that would not have been the case if it had happened under a Republican led administration.

Devdoc is here to make sure there is a political comment where one is not needed.

As for this story, there are only two people who know what really happened, one is dead and the other faces a long prison sentence. Martin was a string bean at 5-11 and 158 pounds. Zimmerman had him by a good 40 pounds but was three inches shorter. He couldn't fight this kid off? Granted a punch in the nose is a stunner for a few seconds but seriously all this guy had to do was roll over and the kid would have gone with him once they were on the ground.

The only thing I have to say about it is this, he was yelling for help while getting his face bashed in and not one neighbor bothered to look out their window to see what was going on? This area is refered to as a gated community which tells me you need a key card to get in by car. This also tells me that it should be a pretty quiet neighborhood so any unusual noise is going to attract attention. It doesn't appear that this happened in a matter of seconds so why no witnesses to the altercation?

This was a little after 7pm on a Sunday in February. The houses weren't sealed up with the air conditioning on and the transplants haven't headed out yet. This pretty much blows all sorts of holes in his story.

Here is the point...There are so many stories out there that warrrant coverage far,far more than this story!!! The media has an agenda in continuing to make this story and every little detail first read news!! It's ridiculous, is biasing the case, it's unprofessional, sucking journalismn at it's worst and it's time to MOVE ON!!!!!!!! RE visit this story when an actual trial begins and then just report the FACTS and let the jury do it's job. Time to stop mulling the damn thing over and over again in the general public!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Earnest15

u do know that F&F was started under G.W. Bush right or did fox news leave that out.

You do know that has not been proven yet, correct?

People, this is not want this article on this vine is about, I was wondering when people from the other side would invade us. But now that it has been started I'll say this, some of you with your 'MSNBC" put downs, hey listen FOX does the same things. I hate people who do something and then say oh look what she's doing, and it's the very thing they did. Both are the same just depends on how you look at it, only FOX News lies more, lol.

FACT FREE ZONE? Fast and Furious was CEASED by Eric Holder's DOJ! The documents Darrell Issa requested violated Federal Disclosure Law and he knew it! Incapable of researching FACT for yourselves ar you. You can't recognize abuse of taxpayer institutions if it hit you in the face. Where do you idiots get your information? If you don't like MSNBC, get off and go to the Fox website where you can live in the Fact Free Zone with your deviate fantasies. Or is Sean Hannity not answering your phone call?

u do know that F&F was started under G.W. Bush right or did fox news leave that out.

I would point out that if we want to say that Fast and Furious started under President Bush and he should be blamed, than we should also recognize that the hunt and ultimate capture of Osama Bin Ladin was started under President Bush and he should get all its credit.

Other possible credits to President Bush because it started under his Administration:

* Any better economic advantages attributed to the federal bail-out (The first bailout occured during the last months of his term.)

* Any saving of the auto industry (See above statement plus the fact that the program known as "Cash for Clunkers" actually was brought to the floor of the House for a vote at the end of his term.)

* Any increase prevention of Iran nuclear program through the use of cyber esponge (since it started during his term and only become know by a mistake in the program made after his term.)

* The complete withdrawl of US military forces from Iraq (Since the law stating when they were going to be removed was actually passed mid-way in his second term.)

If we are to blame President Bush for EVERY current problem this country has, we should also give him full credit for EVERY current success we had in the last 3.5 years. You cannot have it both ways.

Project Gunrunner, the cover name for Operation Wide Receiver and Operation Fast and Furious took place between 2006 and 2010. I don't believe President Obama was in office in 2006.

This, however, is not what this piece is about.

There are so many stories out there that warrrant coverage far,far more than this story!!!

Skrewdworld, you have no idea of the national impact this has, do you?

The very way you can legally defend yourself will depend on the outcome of all this.

I have no idea who is innocent or guilty here, but I do know that this incident will change how people can defend themselves. To me, that is of great importance. Certainly more important than which candidate has raised the most money, or lied the best to get more votes.

Richard and others, I fail to see how Fast and Furious, Iran, Iraq or Bin Laden have any place in this particular discussion though. Going deep with the deflections aren't we?

I had no idea this was an attack the WH administration article. I thought this article was about a shooting that resulted in the death of someone. Some people aren't happy unless they can be negative and spiteful I guess.

Now back to your regularly scheduled political hate in articles not related to Presidents or candidates.

Richard and others, I fail to see how Fast and Furious, Iran, Iraq or Bin Laden have any place in this particular discussion though. Going deep with the deflections aren't we?

Am I on the wrong thread here? I thought this thread was about the video release of Zimmerman's statement and that the Fast and Furious thread was elsewhere. It seems that politics have to enter every thread.....No matter the subject. No matter if there is an appropriate thread to express your point of view. This has gone way off track. Please, go back to the Fast and Furious thread and leave this one alone.

Stand Your Ground Laws are dangerous... that is why this story and the two recent similar stories in Texas are valid issues to debate.

Texas has it right. Texas just convicted a stupid guy who aggressively sought a problem then took matters into his own hands without getting the police to come do their job. The lesson is... You can't go looking for trouble.

ALSO... Texas has not prosecuted a man for killing a guy who was sexually assaulting his child because the Stand Your Ground Law allows for you to protect your children with deadly force if necessary.

Stand Your Ground needs to be abolished because we already have the right to defend ourselves under the Constitution. It creates vigilantes.

What if George Zimmerman missed and killed a child sleeping in a house nearby? Who would you be defending for his bravery then?

Mike227, good idea. The next time you see someone stalking you at night, just go up to them and see what they want. It will probably be your wallet.

The 17 year old Trayvon looked very scary. He would have made Dennis Rodman shake in his boots.

The 17 year old Trayvon looked very scary. He would have made Dennis Rodman shake in his boots.

Ever see what a 17 year old tall man in dark clothes looks like at night? I would be very surprised if you were not anxious if you were in a similar situation.

Precisely his problem.

Today's top story is about Zimmerman. Not Fast and Furious, Holder and Obama's executive privilege.

Bill, please stay on topic. There was a constantly updated story yesterday about what you're complaining about. Also, this is a non-political story that you are trying to make political.

Troll.

"Today's top story is about Zimmerman. Not Fast and Furious, Holder and Obama's executive privilege."

That is correct! Now go play troll somewhere else kid.

But the vote of the House Committee apparently took place since that story. This story about Zimmerman is, indeed, an intended distraction. That is why all you libbies don't want to hear about it .... because it shows Obama's abuse of executive privilege to COVER UP the truth about Fast and Furious ..... which is, by the way, a different program "magically started by person(s) unknown" ... than the program Bush had terminated.

This guy must be deluded to tell us he was on the ground with an agressor who has already seen his gun atop.The agressor did nothing about the gun, rather allowed him enough time to reach for the gun to shoot him. Never grabbed his hand nor the gun? And he shot him in the chest? At what position really?

Stop it with the "Libs" comments. Must you politicize everything? Stay on subject. Throwing out accusation of comments referring to them as "Liberal" or "Conservative" means nothing anymore. We are not a Theocracy and we are not Marxist Socialists. Read the contents of History to decipher the true meaning. Politicians throw out garbage accusations and you buy it without knowning the meaning of the concept or practices. Save your accusations for the voting block.

Jim, don't be daft. Details were release on the case, and that's why it is a story. Start your own news if you don't like it! Geez, like only one event at a time is allowed to happen in the world for some people.

Well what I want to know... If we are going to play a game of "What IF..." about Treyvon casing houses that night... Then let's play another game of "What IF..."

WHAT IF George Zimmerman had missed and the bullet killed a sleeping child inside one of the houses?

Who would you be defending as a hero then?

Zimmerman is NOT a Police Officer. Zimmerman had no right to follow Trayvon. Had Zimmerman heeded to the instructions of the dispatcher, Trayvon would be alive. Trayvon was stalked by Zimmerman. At what point was Trayvon allowed to defend himself!?!?!?!

Another really big problem for GZ. The prosecution obviously believes this and will argue that a confrontation was GZ's intent. After all he knew there was a gun at his side, Trayvon did not. GZ, like droves of hillbilly lynch mobs on the newsvine, believe Trayvon was a criminal out casing houses. It's simply not true.

At this point, he can try to defend himself to Peter or God.

It's not illegal to follow, it is however illegal to punch someone in the face

It is illegal to follow somoeone now? I follow people all of the time. Do I need to worry about going to jail? Travon would be alive today if he would have just went home instead of wanting to beat the hell out of someone whe he did not like. Zimmerman was trying to keep an eye on Martin until the police could get there to question him. Martin wanted to get into a fistfight. Martin got more than he bargained for. Sad facts but nonetheless the facts.

manslaughter at the worst but odds on to walk!! This is with the Obama appointed special prosecutor with orders to get a convection at any cost! It will make Obama look like he give a rats azz about the black community! Because up till now other than making them proud that a black man became president he has not done a thing for them.

No i am not raciest i voted for him, It was a huge mistake and it will not happen again.

It is true I guess it is not illegal to follow. I am going to start to follow everyone in my life that I may encounter problems with. Follow them home, find out who their wife and kids are, and follow them. If they run away chase them. Just scare them to hell since what I am doing is OK right???

That way I can just follow them whenever and wherever publicly and they should say nothing. Then I can even get in their face. And better yet I can do this to minors, right. Oh yeah, thank you smart people for giving me authority to stalk and scare others because I have the freedom to do so, RIGHT????????

The overcharging by the attorney general could lead to the dismissal of all charges in trial. If you speak with attorneys across the country, no one believes the 2nd degree murder charge will hold. I doubt even the prosecution believes it will hold either and is only using it as leverage for a plea bargain.

Travyon Martin's own mother stated that she believed the shooting was an accident and from a fist fight that got out of control. Which if true, completely throws 2nd degree murder out of the window. Really it comes down to either manslaughter or self defense.

It depends on how the confrontation started. If Zimmerman was just following Trayvon but staying several feet back and Trayvon charged him and started beating him, this should be self defense and all charges dropped. Simply someone following you but staying at a distance, does not give you the right to repeatedly smash someone's head on concrete. But if Zimmerman went all the way to Travyon's face and was provoking him and Travyon reacted in defense, this should be manslaughter.

I can see manslaughter, but the 2nd degree murder charge is just there for the headlines, plain and simple, unless they manage to find some rediculously irrefutable evidence to contradict Zimmerman, that they certainly haven't submitted to this point, there is just no way to prove any sort of Murder beyond a reasonable doubt, manslaughter at best, even if you believe Zimmerman is embelishing his story. If he is telling the truth and the facts point that way, he will walk.

How many times does it have to be said, it is not illegal to follow someone, it is illegal to attack someone.

@hiap: Yes, but if you don't agree with the self-righteous, "open-minded" sheep who get their education from watching "The View" ,MSNBC, and believe everything the MSM tries to convince them is "right because it's hip", then you HAVE to agree that Zimmerman "is guilty 'cause I have friends who are black and"hip" and they told me what to think/say. (sarcasm intended).

I too can see a manslaughter charge sticking depending on the composition of the jury. Jury selection will take seven years.

No i think they over charged Zimmerman, if the prosecution doesn't offer a lower charge he will walk.

The definition of stalking is (for those who apparently do not know):

"to pursue quarry or prey steathily"

Is that what he was doing? I heard the 911 tapes, he was following him...and guess what, it's not against any law in this country to follow someone down a public street. I can follow you all over Wal Mart and I'm not breaking any law.

Now, should he have behaved differently in the situation--sure - I might not have made the same decisions, but he was in his own community, on public property and was breaking no laws. I can follow you with 911 on the phone if I believe you're up to no good or about to break the law and I'm not breaking any law.

Get a clue people--GZ was not breaking the law when he followed TM. So regardless of whether it was the "smart" thing to do or not, it wasn't criminal.

But, it was criminal for TM to punch him in the nose and start beating on him.

And do I believe that TM started whopping on him--you bet - the physical evidence at the scene and GZ's injuries prove that he was hit. How bad, doesn't matter, if you hit someone you've assaulted them--depending on the degree of the injuries - that equals the degree of the assault charge, but it's an assault nonetheless.

This case has a lot of variables and will be decided - based on evidence and the law - not the court of public opinion (including mine).

So let the chips fall where they may.

bob c-3660180

It's not illegal to follow, it is however illegal to punch someone in the face

Ever hear of stalking? Harassment? Any of that ring a bell?

"It's not illegal to follow, it is however illegal to punch someone in the face"

Not always on both points.

"No i think they over charged Zimmerman, if the prosecution doesn't offer a lower charge he will walk."

The charges allow for a finding of manslaughter.

I can follow you all over Wal Mart and I'm not breaking any law.

Keep believing that, and you'll be in cuffs one day. You will be asked to stop, and if you do not comply, you will be questioned and possibly detained.

Two of the main rules of any neighborhood watch program, is never follow someone, and above all else, never carry a firearm.

You don't think Trayvon had a right to 'stand his ground' with force against an adult, larger male who was following him? How in the world could it possibly be illegal for Trayvon to defend himself, but it is permissible to Zimmerman to shoot and kill Trayvon in 'self-defense', when he started the whole thing? In any case, testimony from the girlfriend refutes Zimmerman's version of what happened - Trayvon didn't come up behind Zimmerman and then punch him in the nose, with no prior contact.

This lying piece of trash needs to be put away for life. No bruising on Trayvon's hands (confirmed by both the coroner and funeral director) proves he hit no one. He had a small laceration on his ring finger - nothing more. Zimmerman took a beating from someone else earlier and took it out on Martin. I hope he rots in jail. He's nothing more than a common murderer.

I have a neighborhood watch program in my neighborhood. And they stick to the observe and report rule.

I practice Kummooyeh-Korean sword disciplines. When we first moved into the neighborhood a year ago and took my swords out to the field beside the neighborhood church to practice, I was accosted by a cop who said he got a report about a crazy kid waving a sword.

I explained (and demonstrated) to him that it was a form of martial arts, I practiced, and I wasn't hurting anyone and the swords were not sharpened. I asked the cop if it was going to be a problem, should I not practice outside? He said that wasn't necessary, I was free to do as I liked just to not openly threaten someone with the swords.

So a couple weeks later a different cop stops me while I'm practicing and says he got a call from the neighborhood watch about a crazy kid waving a sword. Again, I explained the situation and demoed the forms. He told me the same thing; it's fine just don't threaten anyone.

Three weeks later I see someone standing off to the side of the field watching me practice and he's on his cellphone. I sheathed my sword and waited, thinking it's another cop and I have to explain again. This time it was the neighborhood watch captain who had been hearing reports from the other volunteers about a crazy person (hey, at least they didn't call me a kid this time, I'm freakin' 35!) waving a sword, and then he saw me but this time when he called 911 the dispatcher told him it's already been investigated, I was harmless and if he would wait they would send an officer out to make an official introduction.

So I'm standing there watching him, he stands there watching me, neither one of us has the guts to approach each other. My sword still sheathed but I can draw it in a moment if I have to, and I don’t know if he was packing (conceal isn’t allowed in my state) but he apparently wasn’t coming anywhere near my katana. Then a cop drives up, talks him, walks over to me, then waves the guy over and introduces me to the neighborhood watch captain. So I explain, for the third time, who I am and what I'm doing and since then I have had no further trouble with either the neighborhood watch, or the police, although they did tell me if I have sharpened swords leave them at home (my practice weapons are not sharpened).

That, in my opinion, is how a neighborhood watch is SUPPOSED to be run! Watch, observe, report, and let the cops deal with issues!

Bob c No it is not illegal to punch someone in the face if that person is stalking you. Stand your ground does not just mean firearms.

Actually we do know this. The only injury to Martin was the gun shot wound and the cuts on his fist from punching Zimmerman. If Zimmerman had punched Martin the corner would have see it.

If you noticed someone was stalking you on a dark rainy night and you got away from them only to suddenly have them coming up behind you again, what might you do about it? That alone may have provoked the fight. We don't know what Zimmerman may have said when he confronted Martin, we only know that he was safe in his car when he hung up with the police. I think Zimmerman was pumped up with the courage of having a gun and full of anger because the (*)#* always get away when he leaves it to the police!

This is easy, Zimmerman is what, 240, and Martin is a 140 lb 17 year old. They get into a fight and Zimmerman decides he needs a gun to defend himself? From everything it sounds like they did get into a fight, and since only one side of the story is still breathing we are only getting his version.

Zimmerman was most certainly itching for a fight, he has a history of violence and he didn't follow police orders to stay put. A black kid walking down the street alone is not suspicious, if he is in your world then I feel terribly sorry for you. All signs point to Zimmerman starting some form of confrontation, if that led to a fist fight that Martin started, so be it, then Zimmerman should have fought, like a man. But he was a coward, and he pulled out a gun and killed a 17 year old....anyone who pulls out a gun for a fist fight is a coward, nothing more or less. It amazes me all of these people who would normally say the same thing are backing this guy....is it because Martin is black? If it is you should really question your reasoning.

If I get into a bar fight and kill my foe with my fists I will get manslaughter, because the intent was not to kill. If I kill him with a gun then it's murder. There is enough evidence to put Zimmerman as a willing combatant, so murder in the 2nd is an appropriate charge. This was not someone breaking into my house, this was not someone stealing my neighbors stuff, those I can understand. This was someone who tried to stop a kid on the street, it escalated into a fight and he shot an unarmed man. If this was a cop doing this to a white guy that cop would be going to jail, and he's allowed to stop people.

Correction, Trayvon Martin did not have cuts on his fingers, he had 1 cut, on one finger as indicated in the autopsy. In this video, Zimmerman clearly states that he was trying to get something from his pocket. In which case, I forsee Trayvon getting scared, because you aren't going to stand there while someone gets something out of their pocket. He hit him in an effort to defend himself. I think personally, that Zimmerman already had his gun out, Martin hit him in the face, and they wrestled for the gun. Martin got the advantage, but was unable to get the gun, but was fighting for his life, unfortunately, Zimmerman was able to fire, before he could get away. If you aim at someone who is atop of you, how can you not know that you shot them. Zimmerman did not attempt to revive Martin, and he is far too calm in this video after shooting and taking someone's life the day prior. No matter self-defense, I've seen many of people still in shock over the incident. Zimmerman is doing a cover up, and he's sticking to it. No one can confirm or deny his statement.

TinyP1234,

Zimmerman clearly states that he was trying to get something from his pocket.

I think personally, that Zimmerman already had his gun out, Martin hit him in the face, and they wrestled for the gun

I agree, totally, I can't wait to read ALL FIVE of GZ's statements!

I wonder... Many times it was stated by Zimmerman that Martin "Slammed his head against the ground repeatedly". In order for someone to accomplish this act in a fight, you would need something to hold on to in order slam the persons head. Looking at the pictures of Zimmerman around the time of the incident, his hair is very closely cut, nothing to "grab" there. Only his ears are left to grab on to, and they look remarkably untouched by the pictures. Also the pictures of the alleged broken nose and head injuries (that surfaced weeks after) look very light-weight for the "fight for my life" way it was described. A death match fight would leave some serious bruising as well as, broken fingers, wounds that need to be stitched etc.... Just saying...

What you people think matters not.

TinyP1234

Correction, Trayvon Martin did not have cuts on his fingers, he had 1 cut, on one finger as indicated in the autopsy. In this video, Zimmerman clearly states that he was trying to get something from his pocket. In which case, I forsee Trayvon getting scared, because you aren't going to stand there while someone gets something out of their pocket.

BINGO. This statement will damn him.

Nobody said TM was hiding and waiting for GZ. He turned around and confronted GZ. It had to be face-to-face if he hit him in the nose. And just because this young man had an iced tea and skittles, doesn't make him innocent by any means. He could have been a little "thug", or he could be an innocent young man. Nobody on this vine knows that unless you were a personal friend of TM.

Damn him?????

Maybe. Maybe not.

Thanks Yoda.

America is going crazy, and some of u think its ok? There are three fundamental things wrong with the whole story...

1. Why are neighborhood watch members carrying a gun in the first place (the job is to watch for things and report them, not confront anyone) No gun necessary. for that
2. Since when is getting your ass kicked equal to being killed for it?
3. There are always two sides to a story, and there is only one side that can be told. In my book, when no one is around to dispute the so called facts by one party, they usually aren't telling the whole truth...why would he.

Even if he was up to no good you report it and get outta the way. If TM took his gun and shot him with his own gun, and GZ died. TM could be telling a similar story how some guy was following him, he confronts GZ, they fight, as they're fighting he sees a gun and gets it from him and shoots GZ to protect himself from some weird guy that was following him. Then what?

I'm just saying, one side of the story is never the whole picture wake up America, If this isn't murder, what is? Weapon against no weapon is murder, period!

No weapon against no weapon is not necessarily murder. If someone has the strength and power to kill me and I have a gun then I have the right to kill him. I would prefer not to be the one who dies.

Jo-An said:

I agree, totally, I can't wait to read ALL FIVE of GZ's statements!

A New York Times article did a pretty clear breakdown of the different accounts the news media has run concerning what Zimmerman told various people about what happened that night:

What Zimmerman told his father

Robert Zimmerman, George’s father, said that George was walking back to his truck when Trayvon appeared from behind. Trayvon punched George in the nose and slammed his head into the sidewalk, he said. When George tried to move away from the pavement onto the grass, the gun inside his waistband became visible. Mr. Zimmerman said that George believes Trayvon saw the pistol and said, “You are going to die tonight.” Moments later, George pulled out his pistol and shot Trayvon in the chest.

What Zimmerman told police

In an account given to the Sanford police, George Zimmerman said that he lost sight of Trayvon and was returning to his S.U.V. when the teen approached him from behind and asked him if he had a problem. Mr. Zimmerman said the two exchanged words before Trayvon punched him to the ground, then repeatedly slammed his head into the sidewalk in the moments leading up the shooting. When police arrived on the scene, he told officers that he had cried out for help but no one had come to help.

What detectives told Trayvon’s father

Detectives gave Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, an account of the events that Mr. Martin finds hard to believe. Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, was told that Trayvon approached Mr. Zimmerman twice. First, he walked up to Mr. Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Mr. Zimmerman denied following him. Trayvon walked away, and Mr. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Trayvon then approached him from behind a building and said, “What’s your problem, homie?” Mr. Zimmerman said he did not have a problem, and Trayvon attacked him. Trayvon hit Mr. Zimmerman and pinned him to the ground. Mr. Zimmerman pulled his gun as he was being beat and fired one shot. “You got me,” Trayvon said, falling back.

I've heard some dumb comments in my day but this clearly takes the cake. Who gave Zimmerman any authority? How is he the 'law'? Zimmerman's authority as a volunteer ends at observe and report.

Thats what you would like to believe he was the law, he thought he was at the time. Neighborhood watch is below a watchman, security guard and security officer. He isn't sworn to do anything but observe and report. The conceal and carry doesn't apply here. He was operaing in to different areas at the same time and that isn't good cause he isn't legally sworn to either. Yeah, Florida is different.