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Subscribe to RSSIn an exclusive interview, juror Joshua Harper tells TODAY's Lester Holt that the decision to convict Jerry Sandusky hinged on the credibility of his accusers and the testimony of independent witnesses.
A juror in the Jerry Sandusky trial said Saturday that the look on the former Penn State football coach's face as the guilty verdicts were announced was "confirmation" that they had made the right decision.
Joshua Harper told TODAY that Sandusky had shown "no real emotion, just kind of accepting because he knew it was true," he added.
Sandusky, 68, was convicted Friday of 45 counts of child sexual abuse and faces a minimum sentence of 60 years in prison, NBC News reported.
The former longtime defensive coordinator for the Penn State football team had denied all 48 counts alleging that he abused 10 boys over 15 years.
Investigations will continue in the Sandusky case related to how Penn State handled the case, and some officials are facing perjury charges. NBC's Michael Isikoff, Ron Allen, and Legal Analyst Wes Oliver join MSNBC's Ed Schultz to discuss the details of the case as well as community reaction to the verdict.
Two grand jury reports accused him of having used his connection to one of the nation's premier college football programs to "groom" the boys, whom he met through his Second Mile charity for troubled children.
Harper told TODAY that the jurors "were on the same page" when they began their deliberations and had focused on "the facts and determining credibility."
MSNBC's Ed Schultz talks with Jeff Herman, an attorney who specializes in representing sexual abuse victims, about the difficulties the victims in the Sandusky case would have had in stepping forward with allegations.
He said the men who testified that they were abused appeared to be telling the truth.
"I think there were a couple that I felt [were] very credible. I mean, it's hard to judge character on the stand, because you don't know these kids, but most were very credible, I would say all," Harper told TODAY.
Defense attorney Joe Amendola speaks outside the courthouse in Bellefonte, Pa., after his client, Jerry Sandusky, was found guilty of sexually abusing children.
He added that the fact that they all told similar stories about Sandusky was "very convincing."
Harper said they had not convicted Sandusky of rape over the incident witnessed by former Penn State assistant Mike McQueary -- who said he had "no doubt" that Sandusky engaged in anal sex with a boy in a Penn State shower -- because McQueary "did not see any actual penetration."
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"We did not have the evidence that that very first charge happened," Harper said. "We were in agreement ... that we could not convict him of that first count."
Sandusky was acquitted on two other counts as well -- one an indecent assault charge involving "Victim 6". The man testified that Sandusky had given him a bear hug in the shower but at one point he just "blacked out."
The other acquittal was an indecent assault charge related to "Victim 5", who said Sandusky fondled him in the shower.
The jury had worked "very well" together, he added, discussing misgivings about some parts of the case and discussing "inconsistencies." "We were patient," he said.
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Raven; in recent years there has been a movement for mediation instead of litigation in the legal profession. This represents change, positive change. I'm sure you're aware of this, yes? I don't disagree with anything you're saying about a lawyer's obligation to provide the best possible representation. What I'm trying to bring forth is that another positive change would be for lawyers to take their role as counselors very seriously. For example: "Jerry, only you know if you're guilty or not and if you maintain your innocence, I'll do everything I can to get you acquitted, but I want you to know it looks very likely this won't happen with this much evidence against you and to put these alleged victims through the hell of testifying, well, if you did these things you're accused of, wouldn't it be morally right to plead guilty and ask for clemency? It's your call Jerry but I would like you to consider the moral aspect of what is happening here." Wouldn't something like that be wise counsel without in any way violating an attorney's obligation to do the best job in raising a defense? One more thing; I don't think you can honestly say that there aren't any money-grubbing, greedy, corrupt, sleazy, incompetent lawyers in the world. There are these kind of folks in almost every field but if I were an attorney and I wasn't one, I'd want to avoid the appearance of being one, wouldn't you? Sandusky's attorneys I think would be better served by saying; "no comment, the case isn't over yet" until the dust has all settled because every time they open their mouths now, they lower themselves a little more, at least in my eyes and make themselves accomplices in the rape of innocents.
drsm - of course i'm not saying there aren't any money-grubbing, greedy, corrupt, sleazy, incompetent lawyers in the world. i have worked for a few. this is one of the main reasons i left the profession, although later in my paralegal career i was working for products liability defense attorneys. i was merely saying that all defense attorneys are not like that.
this i agree with completely ----> "Sandusky's attorneys I think would be better served by saying; "no comment, the case isn't over yet" until the dust has all settled because every time they open their mouths now, they lower themselves a little more, at least in my eyes and make themselves accomplices in the rape of innocents."
i think what you are proposing has the right intention. it would be great if things could happen this way. would definitely save some victims from having to re-live their trauma publicly.
Sandusky should be beated to death.
But, I have to say, its a little funny that the 'justice' was served based on how the guy acted in court- not about the facts.
Justice was served through the solid testimonies of all the victims. Sandusky BTW looks like he is "on" something, like ludes.
Lucy1
Kim and I are having a discussion. This is a forum.
I don't have beliefs. I work toward having reasonable expectations based on prior evidence or plausibility.
You misunderstand science. Science does not disprove negative propositions but rather describes why certain claims may have low or high probabilities for being factual.
Certainly any information about the physical universe obtained by way of methodological naturalism would be descriptive of what is called reality.
Yes, though merely being exposed to alternative ways of understanding does not obligate me to accept claims that lack evidence.
How did Dear Dot take the verdict? Was any of his adopted sons there? If none were there to support Jer and Dot then their silence speaks volumes. There was a doctor who murdered his wife and buried her in the basement of his new house in another state. They had all the receipts from the tarp, shovel, cement that matched that poured over the body. He first said he didn't do it and someone else killed her in their current home then transported her body to the new one and dug up the basement and put her in it to frame him. After conviction he still said he didn't do it but changed the story a bit and said it wasn't her in the hole, so 5 years later they dug her up to prove it was her at taxpayers expense of course. He still has lawyers standing up for him trying to get him out of prison, they don't care about evidence all they care is to make up some stupid story to try to get a doubt started, these lawyers know their client is guilty but will sell their soul for money. His lawyer couldn't shut up even when told to, probably hoping to get a new trial. The jurors in this case focused on each count and did their job, too bad these types of people aren't on every jury, when a jury makes up their mind because they don't care for the prosecuting attorney or they think the accused is handsome or they are star struck by the accused then the not guilty should be thrown out and a new trial should happen. Double jeopardy law has let way too many guilty walk free because of the stupidity of juries.
I have witnessed similar incidents at four major universities: blowjobs in campus buildings involving students and faculty... blowjobs in showers at college gyms involving faculty and students...in stairwells. I have also witnessed similar activity in military installations... and on USN ships at sea. Its very, very, common sexual activity... between consenting adults. However, I have never witnessed abuse of a child. I think I would react reflexively with a brick, or something, on or about the head of the abuser in defense of the child. Yes. The abuser would not repeat such conduct again. Never. :)
All I can say is that if this jury had been the one hearing Casey Anthony's case she wouldnt be walking free right now. They understood the charges and they understood what *circumstantial evidence* means and they did their due diligence. They had 48 charges to decide on - 48 of them and that must have been mind boggling in itself. They asked for evidence to be resubmitted to them so they could be sure of their decision. I watched the video of this juror and not for one second did I come away thinking that he had *reasonable doubt* of his decision but looking at Mr. Sandusky's lack of emotion cemented it for him. I think anyone on a jury especially a case like this one with small boys wants to see some emotion, some reaction to see if they are in any way remorseful for what they have done. Even anger at the verdict shown by Sandusky would have been an emotion of some kind but he stood there like he truly believed he had done nothing wrong at all and that the trial was unfair cause it was first tried in the media etc. etc. And remember one juror could not have convicted him alone - it takes 10 or 12 to do the job. So beating up on this juror is ludicrous. They had reasonable doubt about 3 of the charges and found him not guilty on them which shows they worked hard on their verdict and should be commended for the work they did. Before he was convicted I read comments on here that indicated most people wanted this guy to be put to death or put in jail and have the key thrown away and now the jury comes back with the proper verdict and they are calling for a mistrial due to wording of certain statements made by some people. I dont get it. And as for Marcia Clarke - I wasnt impressed with her during the OJ trial and yes he got away with murder but it wasnt just Marcia Clarke. It was all members of the Prosecution that screwed up that case and I am sure due to that she has become a better lawyer because of it. This man was found guilty because the jury chose to listen to and believe the victims as should have been the case cause kids (as they were at the time) dont lie to get themselves into trouble - they may lie to get themselves out of trouble. It took them years but they finally told the truth and the truth was heard.
I think they should put him in with the general prison public and see how he likes being abused!
Why is the media trying to milk this story? This is no OJ. A zillion people were no waiting with bated breath. It was obvious he was a creep. It was obvious the whole situation was "screwed". Get if off the front page already, this is not the crime verdict of the century.
Now, if the legal system would take seriously the horrific predators hiding behind priests robes, we would have even more justice in the world. Those bastards make Sandusky look like Mary Poppins.
In many ways, we live in a "merciful society," and a lifetime in jail for Sandusky is mercy...It's too bad, we probably won't find out who knew about this and helped cover it up...They probably have the same criminal background...Protect the children! Peace...
Justice has been served! Let the sicko rot in prison or be killed by another prisoner. Now it's time for the prosecutor to quickly go after all the people who covered up for Sandusky. Fine them and put them all in jail for turning their backs on all the victims in this case. Let them all do significant jail time to serve as an example for others. These kids will need significant therapy and are scarred for life.
This should be a warning to all colleges and universities. If you cover up assaults, thefts, and other crimes on campus that have been previously reported, you will pay dearly for your misdeeds.
Colleges/Universities have to realize that victims do have rights and the reputation of the school should not be paramount when crimes happen on campus and then are reported. They need to take their heads out of the sand. They need to be top priority, investigated by the area police, and then prosecuted.
STILL Think its a TRAVESTY what they DID to PATERNO!
WHY? he was basically an accomplice!! in a position of working with young people at an educational institute, he had a DUTY to report child abuse!! he discussed with higher ups, but he did NOT go the city police - big difference. he could have STOPPED this from the get-go .. but, like Sandusky's wife, he turned a BLIND EYE to it. think of how many children might have been saved from being anally raped from Jerry Sandusky if Joe Paterno had done what was morally right?
At the very least he was complicit through his silence.
assumptions, raven & ambivalent
you really have no idea what was told to paterno. if anything, all of the details released since the grand jury report shows that paterno in fact couldn't have done more than he did. his estate has a great civil suit against the university.
THE Higher ups ARE NEXT!
His wife Dottie should be next. She was there when he had these boys in the basement. I refuse to believe that she did not know about it when one of them (at least) called for help and she was there upstairs. She knew and did nothing to protect or stop the abuse, even for her own adopted son. What kind of a woman remains married to a monster such as Sandusky?
When the verdict was read she didn't bat an eye. Don't you all wonder what went through her mind at that moment?
One Down, Thousands To Go...
With the conviction and incarceration of Sandusky, society is simply rid of just one more of his ilk. Every day, thousands of pedophiles ply their perverted trade against innocent children. As with Sandusky, many of these monsters work first to gain the trust of a child and their parents before the abuse and the molestations begin. To all parents... know and watch all of the people that are around your children, and if anything at all seems like it just doesn't look right then talk to your child, ask questions, intervene and call the police. When it comes to your kids in today's society, you can never be carefull enough.
Peace to all
It has been suggested that the stoic expressions of French Nobles executed during the French Revolution and subsequent Reign of Terror merely provoked the crowds. The execution of Madame du Barry brought so much more sympathy because of her emotional break-down at the time of her execution. What shows on a person's face may not reflect their emotional state. Guilty or no, this kind of statement causes me to doubt the competency of this juror.
The worst thing about it, no matter what the jurist say. He would not have gotten a fair trial no matter where it was at. The media coverage ruined any chance of finding twelve of his peers that did not see or hear anything about the trial. He's guilty, but a fair trial no way.
Showed little emotion - I guess that's why he's on suicide watch.
http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/23/12374414-sandusky-reportedly-on-suicide-watch?lite
if he was concerned about the victims at all, he would confess at his hearing and tell the judge he needs help so he does not reoffend, that might help the victims of this crime some. and where did this desire come from? was he raped as a kid.i know they call it molesting ,but it is rape ,these children and young men need help. penn. state has deep pockets ,they need to start a fund just for mental health not including what they should pay in damages, because they turned a blind eye to this rapist. its time to help the victims now.there is no stigma in being a victim.i lived for 55 years as a victim, but i am a former vitim of child abuse, they need to become former victims, these young boys did nothing wrong. i was only beat and berated these children were attacked
Tom Corbett 'praising' the jury for their willingness to serve and their findin Jerry Sandusky guilty for these 'reprehensible' crimes is nothing but a smoke screen so nobody comes after his ass. This also happened on his watch and he simply looked the other way. Just trying to cover up his part in this again. He needs to go away too. If Joe Paterno was accused of looking the other way, more than a few people need to go down too.
He should enjoy lots of gay sex in prison and is probably looking forward to being surrounded by thousands of weiners. He must already be dreaming about shower time in prison. He may spend the rest of his life in prison, but that is not a punishment for this sick puke! He needs to receive the Jeffrey Dahmer treatment as soon as possible.
Penn State football may never recover from this pervert and his evil deeds.
In addition to raddbrad's comment you must also factor in the probability that Sandusky is a narcissist. Such people simply don't think that the rules apply to them because they are so superior. This does not excuse his behavior, but people do need to become more aware of narcissist behavior. They are usually quite charming and are easily able to pull the wool over people's eyes. His wife is a pretty good example of someone who has been conned by him, and I am sure there are others.
Coaching staffs are very close knit groups.Treatment and relations to and with each other, and coached athletes are clearly visible.Sandusky's behavior, as it was more than infrequent, probably was witnessed by the staff.I can only wonder what transpired behind closed doors of the Nittany Lions and JoPa's actions of not stopping such horrendous behavior.Did JoPa look the other way in the name of PSU football?
This juror claiming Sandusky's lack of emotion is a confirmation the verdict was right is bs. Assuming all the charges are true, I too believe Sandusky got what was coming to him, but that's not my point. A lack of emotion would more so be caused by being in shock, and the realization that he would be in prison for the rest of his life would set in. You'd probably expect him to cry or scream in anger, but I guarantee he will do that at some point once the initial shock wears off. Can you imagine hearing someone tell you with 100% certainty that the rest of your life will be spent behind bars? Anyone would be stunned, shocked, etc. He's probably more forlorn than overly emotional, which basically means he's depressed and basically hopeless. I'm sure he deserves this punishment and much more, but I still think this article's premise and the jurors assertion are complete BS.
Don't you know there is such a thing as a gay pedophile, CBerry-591874?