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Miami-Dade Corrections
Greyston Garcia was cleared by a judge in March using Florida's Stand Your Ground law after chasing down a suspected burglar and stabbing him to death
A man who avoided a murder charge just months ago thanks to Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law was one of two men shot to death in Miami Tuesday night.
The shooting happened around 9:30 p.m., Miami police spokesman Sgt. Freddie Cruz said.
Cruz said officers responded to the area and found a young black male lying on a side street shot and unconscious. A second victim, another black male, was found shot inside a black pickup truck just feet away.
The man found in the street was pronounced dead at the scene by Miami Fire Rescue. The second victim was taken to a hospital but died on the way, Cruz said.
According to the Miami Herald, the man shot in the truck was Greyston Garcia, who was granted immunity in March under the controversial self-defense law following a stabbing.
Garcia had chased down and stabbed a thief who had broken into his truck after the thief swung a bag filled with heavy car radios at him,
according to the Herald.
Police believe Garcia was an innocent bystander in Tuesday's shooting, the Herald reported.
Watch US News crime videos on msnbc.com
Family members identified the man found shot in the street as 16-year-old Ronald Jones.
"You know, seeing my baby brother laying out here and you know, that's just an image that I'll never forget," sister Ronchel Jones said. "Everybody loved him, he was loving, caring, funny."
Cruz said police are still investigating the circumstances surrounding the shooting.
"This is like a big puzzle we're trying to put together," Cruz said. "We're not sure if these gentlemen were shooting at each other or if we have a third party that's at large that is responsible for the shooting."
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Leave a Comment:
Karma's a bi**h, ain't she?
I wonder how Garcia was standing his ground chasing down the theft, that is one Fu-ked up law if you ask me, if the criminal runs away and you chase him you're not standing your ground, you have just become the aggressor, Garcia should have been charged with manslaughter. I don't care what color his skin was.
Makes more sense to blame it on karma than blaming it on color. Why can't people just say MORON SHOOTS MORON instead of bringing race into it.
So tired of racism as an excuse or a reason or a political response!
Sam2468 I was thinking the same thing. I think the author of the article must of wrote the story with a twist.
Looks like someone was very threatened by the guy's mere presence..... All the killer needs to do now is use that same "Stand Your Ground" defense.
Like we needed a reason not to visit Florida. Now we have thousands. Thousands of wackos and all of them armed and convinced that if someone looks at them wrong, they can blow them away with impunity.
Sam-------------- If it were me I wish I had a gun and shot him I wouldn't have to chase him down and stab him. As for you that thinks it's ok to run and steal you take something from me there will be a bullet in your back
Richard: Yep, and we're glad that you bedwetters stay out. Miami is a @!$%#hole unless you're a millionaire, but the rest of the state is pretty sweet. I don't know which city you live in/near, but I'll bet there are armed wackos there, too. Difference is, we can shoot back, rather than just stand there and piss ourselves when a punk tries somethin'.
There is no Karma unless you are Buddist! lol Oh, I guess stand your ground in this case means stand your ground and run AFTER someone to put them on the ground. Justice was probably carried out by someone assocated with the stab victums.
Charger 12 I agree with you. If you are on MY property stealing, I will perceive you to be a threat. I will protect it at all costs even if that means chasing down the idiot stealing.
Floridia's "Stand Your Ground" law creates many problems.
If without provocation, a person's life is endangered, it is reasonable to expect that that person would defend him or herself to the fullest. However, Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law gives individuals potential legal cover to become the aggressor and when it is not necessary to take a life.
In view of the Trayvon Martin murder, Florida's state's legislator is now revisiting this bad law.
Charger, I can't believe you think it's okay to kill someone for stealing something. It's wrong to steal, yes, but worse to kill. Your words sound very violent and ugly. This is not the Wild West, though the NRA is trying its best to make it that way.
Live by the sword, die by the sword...
Reap what you sow...
Karma is not just for Buddhists. Yes it does exist.
Sounds like someone recently got done watching Rambo re-runs.
"Bullet in the back"?? LOL, very impressive.
Florida's a real fuching paradise, ain't it? Governor stole more than $100 million in tax money and they got Alan West as a champion in DC. When is the next hurricane due?
quote charge12
If it were me I wish I had a gun and shot him I wouldn't have to chase him down and stab him. As for you that thinks it's ok to run and steal you take something from me there will be a bullet in your backcharger
what comes around goes around
lil inhuman to kill somebody over a piece of crap item you could buy again eh?
oh no care for life
and the greed will boil over with a burning effect and the hate will spill blood for eons from one generation to the next
ya i want to spend my time looking over my shoulder because i killed for candy
duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh
hey i guess some like to sweat over the little things in life
if some one stole from me id let them take it apperantly they needed it more
now if on second hand someone puts my children or love ones at risk of death/bodily harm that would deserve me shooting them dead
so im not to human that i wouldnt kill for other humans who deserve to be protected
but to protect a radio,car, gold
bah its all garbage
only life is valuable but the deserving get whats coming to them
That's your bible belt for you. Don't educate your children, pay them peanuts and they will kill you and everyone else that get in the way
yep... so many tough guys with their guns... so many dead victims
CHARGER12
And in every DA's office across the the U.S., when you shoot someone in the back -- not because you are actively defending the life of yourself or another, but just because you think you have a right to -- it is called, at the very least, "manslaughter". Shooting and killing someone who is not actually threatening you or another person only makes you exactly the same as every gangbanger around the world.
A thief is a thief I will do what ever it takes to stop one if I were to catch them taking something. If he was larger than me or hopped up on drugs I'm not going to chase him down and tackle him and with no weapons or something put away where I could not get to it quickly. Then have it used against me no way just shoot him. I would ask for the bullet back. I would leave the blood on it and frame it. With the saying One more dirt bag of the streets for good
Hey opp, when did Miami become part of the Bible Belt?
Sam, there is a simple explanation. It is legal to chase a criminal. At the moment the criminal stops running and attacks you, then you are standing your own ground. The chase has nothing to do with standing your ground in this particular situation. If, instead, the criminal attacked and THEN ran away, and was chased down and stabbed to death, then SYG wouldn't apply.
fred the puppy
No the difference is that y'all can murder someone -- just because you "feel threatened". Bubba, I live in Minnesota, I carry -- LEGALLY -- but I don't go around shooting people just because I "feel threatened". Just so you know, Minnesota has plenty of crime and plenty of gangbangers, even in the bum-fluck-Egypt "out-state" rural areas.
It's only a matter of time before one of these frightened "stand your ground" guys goes chasing after a run-of-the-mill thief with the intent to put a bullet in his back, then another "stand your ground" tough guy comes on the scene and sees frightened guy #1 wielding a gun and decides to draw on him... two f00ls shooting each other; it will be priceless.
The bravery of anonymity is on display whenever Charger 12 posts. Trying to compensate?
The value of the property you would kill for is the value of your own life.
"Black Racist Moron Shoots and Kills Black Racist Moron." Thinning of the herd continues.
I agree with Mr Accountability-2446281...(#1.8)..." Justice was probably carried out by someone assocated with the stab victums."
Only I wouldn't characterize it as "Justice".....And putting aside whether or not you think the stabbing was a Justifiable Homicide or not....it was ruled that way.
The point I want to make is that the overwhelming majority of CCW Permit holders wake up in the morning and hope/pray they never have to draw their weapon....Same holds true for those that only have a weapon in their house.
Whether or not it is CastleDoctrine in the home or Stand Ones Ground outside the home.....Taking someone's life is a life altering event for the "shooter". They and their family will have to look over their shoulder for the rest of their lives because the dead guy does have friends and relatives that may be looking for revenge...
The Courts may say it was Justifiable, that you acted in self-defence.....But your life will never be the same...
Wow, Charger12----You are one macho dude. LOL. Thanks for the laugh.
Hey Charger, it's just stuff -- is it REALLY worth dying over? If you ain't willing to die for it, what makes it ok to kill someone else for it?
p.s., better make damn sure you NEVER walk out of a store without paying for something, not even accidentally. You don't want to be shot in the back as a thief.......
Sam2428:
I agree with you 100%, most laws in this area specifcaly<sp> state " your life in peril " so to speak. If your running away, that is Not an excuse to kill the person running away. Florida first needs to clean up the law and second needs to explain to people what that means! And for those that think of Zimmerman let me say this, Shooting someone in self defense is NOT an automatic free card. NOW your going to be sued in court where the rules are different. Be damn sure your life is in danger because you will pay one way or the other. by the way, shoot to injure or stop a criminal is just as illegal. Laws vary in differnt states, know yours completely before making the mistake of shooting someone.
For those who did not read the article, Grayston Garcia stabbed the thief only after the thief attacked him with a blunt object that could have killed him. I realize it is fun to be snarky about these articles but enough is enough. Do try to be honest in the future.
So you can chase someone down and stab them to death for breaking into your car, and get away with it ? What a stupid law. "Stand Your Ground" doesn't promote self defense, it is a "license to kill". Florida and other states that have this law have their heads up their a$$es.
These dirt bags have been in the system their whole life in jail out of jail and back in again. This saves the tax payer a lot of money and they are off the streets for good. Romney wouldn't put up with someone stealing something right in front of him he would tell the hired help to chase them down and stab them for him. God it's great to be rich and have his chauffeur drive him back to the mansion and draw him a bath it was just too trying
I followed this story and know exactly how he got off under SYG. He chased a guy down after catching him steal a radio from his car and someone videotaped the altercation of the guy swinging the bag of radios at him as he blocked the bag and stabbed the guy. If the guy wasn't committing a crime and it wasn't videotaped he wouldn't have gotten off so easily.
I wonder if he died with a bag of Skittles in his pocket?
I think the FDA should ban Skittles. They keep getting people killed.
Feed up with the status quo...(#1.28)....", Shooting someone in self defense is NOT an automatic free card. NOW your going to be sued in court where the rules are different. "
Just wanted to point out one thing from your comment. I don't know about what other States say but part of the Florida Self-Defence Statues says :
"A person who uses force as permitted in s. 776.012, s. 776.013, or s776.031 is justified in using such force and is immune from criminal prosecution and civil action for the use of such force...
This language makes clear that the law provides a true immunity and not merely an affirmative defense. The Florida legislative session law notes demonstrate the true intent behind the new law stating; "The Legislature finds that it is proper for law-abiding people to protect themselves, their families, and others from intruders and attackers without fear of prosecution or civil action for acting in defense of themselves and others". Ch. 2005-27"
http://www.hessingerlaw.com/Articles/Self-Defense-and-Floridas-Stand-Your-Ground-Law.aspx
The relatives of the dead guy can't sue, no matter how much of a nice guy they think he was....
We have Castle Doctrine here in Texas. Works just fine.
The moment you CHASE the suspect it is no longer standing your ground. The law is good, the problem is the stupid legal system. just like that jackwagon Zimmerman who, even after being told to stop pursuing Martin, continued to do so then found himself getting his ars kicked. he was not standing his ground he was pursuing.
Stand Your Ground means just that, stand your ground when being attacked, and every American should have that right. But only, and I mean ONLY law enforcement should have the right to pursue a suspect and use deadly force once the suspect is cornered and begins to threaten their lives.
Christopher Cole-2915768
Yep -- AFTER Garcia had chased him down. That actually made Garcia the aggressor -- not the guy who was stealing radios. If the thief had killed Garcia while defending himself, would still be defending that law?
I would like to add that I truly believe that if Americans were allowed to carry guns openly with realistic training and certification and update programs and these citizens were allowed to shoot thieves, muggers, rapists and any violent offenders you would see a LOT less violent crimes happening.
like my grandma used to say "If you outlaw guns then only outlaws will have guns"
Agnon Mema....(#1.37)..."Yep -- AFTER Garcia had chased him down. That actually made Garcia the aggressor"
Are you serious ???.....If some creep runs by and snatches my girlfriends necklace off her neck....according to you I CAN'T chase the guy down to get it back ???....Just let it go, so what it only cost me $200 bucks, it's only money and he just needs some crack or something....Really ???
LookingForwardtotheFuture
Yes, and you also have a lot of trigger-happy fools who will kill someone just because they think that someone is going to hurt them. It has happened before, where someone goes up to a door (hey, it's on private property, covered under that Castle Doctrine) to ask directions, and is killed by the home-owner/resident -- because the home-owner/resident was beaten up by someone else who LOOKS like the person asking for directions, and the home-owner/resident THINKS that they are going to be beaten up again.
Look at that kid who was killed just because he picked the "wrong" porch to hide in............ "Shoot First, Ask Questions After They're Dead" seems to be covered under Castle Doctrine, too.
stabbing a thief to death after chasing them... He got off because he was black.
Mike in Delray
You know I said no such thing. What are you, a Tea-Tagger CONservative Repugnicrat politician?
Ophotfoot
No, he got off because of that "Stand Your Ground" law. Get off the racial-profiling prejudice already.
Are you serious ???.....If some creep runs by and snatches my girlfriends necklace off her neck....according to you I CAN'T chase the guy down to get it back ???
Of course you can. But you can't shoot the guy in the back to make him stop running.
L8N8
So, who gets to decide who is a rapist, thief, murderer, etc? You? Your neighbor? How about your local insane asylum inmates? Lots of young girls making false accusations of someone raping them, you know, and that's just one example of the flaw in your "reasoning". Oh, and there are plenty of examples of "murderers" who have been proven innocent, too -- another example of that deadly flaw in your "reasoning".
Agnon Mema...(#1.42).."You know I said no such thing."
That is exactly what you said..."Yep -- AFTER Garcia had chased him down. That actually made Garcia the aggressor -- not the guy who was stealing radios"
Giving chase does not make the victim of a crime the aggressor ......what happens when he catches up determines anything else....and if the crime victim gets attacked by the thief ....oh well....That turns it into a forcible felony which Florida Self-Defence laws allow the use of deadly force.....
This is exactly why the guy in the story was cleared of any charges....
Kat-1745504....(#1.44)..."Of course you can. But you can't shoot the guy in the back to make him stop running."
Who said anything about shooting someone running away in the back ???
"thou shall not kill"
"kill, kill, kill, murder, murder, murder"
"shoot first ask questions later"
"yee haw! pow, pow, pow"
"go ahead, make my day"
Jesse G
No, but you can stab them for trying to brain you with a 20 pound bag of radios and get away with it.
Agon Mema
Let me bash your head in with a bag of radios and tell me if you think Im the aggressor.
Whats the big deal with killing a thief, if more people would do it theyre would be less thieves.
Mike, here's what I quoted from you:
When Garcia decided to chase the guy, Garcia became the aggressor -- and the guy he killed had EVERY right to defend himself. You insistence that my saying this is the same as saying that you do not have the right to defend yourself, or even try to get your property back, is exactly the same as what YOU complain about certain "liberal" politicians do. YOU, Mike, have been caught in a lie, and YOU are now trying to wiggle out of it.
Now, please understand that it is wrong to deliberately LIE.
Can people shoot Jehovah Witnesses and other annoying religious zealots and then claim "Stand your Ground".
I would think it would be ok to do so since they threaten you with hell, fire, and brimstone stories.
I don't know if one of these or all of them are loons, but knocking on my door and annoying me with the threat of going to hell should also be allowed to shoot and kill these loons so they won't come back with these threats at my door again.
/s
jussayin-
Also, what goes around comes around. This man Garcia that was killed is an idiot, and the judge and jury are just as big of an idiot for allowing this man to get away with murdering a robber that was no longer on the premises of the victims home.
I have no sympathy for the stupid that use some bs law to kill people, and the same with religions that feel that they are the judge and jury of gay people.
I'm going to stand my ground from here on out, and no religious zealot better knock on my front door.
Steve-2081387, are you trying to say that just because the guy had stolen car radios, that he did not have the right to defend himself? If YOU were the one doing the stealing and I happen to chase you down, and you defend yourself by swinging a bag of whatever at my head -- you are DEFENDING YOURSELF.
Oh, and Steve, you also better hope you never, ever, even by accident, walk out of a store without paying for something -- because you might be shot as a thief.
Mike in Delray
Perhaps not you -- but you seem to condone it. Note that I said SEEM TO.
Charger, leave your gun locked up. Okay? The stand your ground laws are just that, not chase em down and murder them. The idiots that do that are going to screw it up for everyone.
Something is amiss down in Florida. Must be the Caribbean sea water everyone is drinking. Let me get this straight, since touching is 3rd degree assault, can I shoot anyone who touches me in a perceived threatening manner? If I stand my ground on a public sidewalk, and you happen to bump into me, can I shoot you?
Can I shoot someone who I believe has just tried to pick my pocket -- because they happened to bump into me like a pick-pocket would? Seems so, according to the folks who say they will shoot someone just for stealing a radio.
So why do we need police anyway. As long as we have guys like Mike in Delray we can get rid of jails, courts, judges and just shoot people in the streets. Great country we would have.
From #1.47 "Who said anything about shooting someone running away in the back ???"
You said you would chase that person and shoot that person and unless you're really fast, if he's running away from you, the only target would be that persons back.
Agnon Mema..."Mike, here's what I quoted from you:
Here's the part you forgot .....{ crack or something....Really ???}....Those are question marks...I was asking you a question that you still haven't answered.
Is it still your claim that once I chase after the necklace thief I become the aggressor ??? And that whatever happens after that is my fault ???...Please be clear about your answer.
So, "When Garcia decided to chase the guy, Garcia became the aggressor -- and the guy he killed had EVERY right to defend himself".....Is just not true and the law doesn't agree with you, no matter what you think.
"is exactly the same as what YOU complain about certain "liberal" politicians do. YOU, Mike, have been caught in a lie, and YOU are now trying to wiggle out of it."
Geeze Louize...when did I ever say that....you make stuff up as you go along and your other beliefs have no basis in the law....Calling me a liar for calling you out....that's a laugh....
vwterry....(#1.57)..."From #1.47 "Who said anything about shooting someone running away in the back ???"
You said you would chase that person and shoot that person and unless you're really fast, if he's running away from you, the only target would be that persons back."
______________________________________
You must show us all where I said that .....When did I say anything about shooting anyone ??
I believe that's what the law states thepunisher-2054749, as long as there are no witnesses or video of the incident the person doesn't actually have to bump into you, just gun them down and claim they assaulted you and you're off scot-free
Mike, when you start chasing someone, YOU become the aggressor. Sure, when the person you're chasing turns and tries to hit you, you do have the right to defend yourself -- but, UNLESS YOU ARE A COP AND TELL THEM YOU ARE A COP, that person also has the right to defend themself against you, because YOU are the one chasing them.
Why is that so damn difficult to understand?
Agnon Mema....And you're just still wrong, again.....about who the aggressor is....
Mike in Delray
Here's where you deliberately lied, Mike:
When what I quoted YOU as trying to say what I said:
When did I ever say that, Mike? Never, that's when -- which make you a deliberate LIAR, Mike. And you complain about certain "liberal" politicians not telling the truth........
Hey Mike, if someone were chasing you would you tell us that they were not the aggressor? I bet you won't.
Agnon Mema....".....If some creep runs by and snatches my girlfriends necklace off her neck....according to you I CAN'T chase the guy down to get it back ???....Just let it go, so what it only cost me $200 bucks, it's only money and he just needs some crack or something....Really ???"
That is a question based on your statement that the chaser is the aggressor ???
Agnon Mema..."Hey Mike, if someone were chasing you would you tell us that they were not the aggressor? I bet you won't."
If I just robbed them and they started running towards me I would think they want their stuff back...I would still be the criminal....And I would try to do anything to get away so I wouldn't end up in jail.
Agnon Mema....Here's what Judge Bloom had to say:
"Miami-Dade Circuit Judge Beth Bloom ruled Garcia acted in self-defense because the thief swung a bag filled with heavy car radios, and a medical examiner testified that "a 4-6 pound bag of metal being swung at one's head would lead to serious bodily injury or death," her order said.
Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/27/2870294/miami-man-freed-in-controversial.html#storylink=cpy
"But Bloom, in her order, said that under the law, Garcia "was well within his rights to pursue the victim and demand the return of his property . . . the defendant had no duty to retreat and could lawfully pursue a fleeing felon who has stolen his property."
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/06/27/2870294/miami-man-freed-in-controversial.html
I'll side with the Judge on who the aggressor/criminal was....You can side with you...
Checkmate
Mike in Delray
No, Mike, that is a question based on what you WANTED me to say -- not what I actually said. You're still a liar, Mike.
Mike in Delray
That's right, Mike, you would DEFEND YOURSELF. Just like that thief defended himself against the perceived threat of Garcia chasing after him. Now, stop playing at being a career politician, Mike -- stop deliberately LYING.
Mike in Delray
Hey Mikey, you already said that you do ANYTHING to get away from someone chasing you to get their stuff back. Now it looks like you're trying to say that the thief didn't have the right to defend himself against someone chasing him.... Stop being a lying, forked-tongue, two-mouthed politician, Mike.
Oh for Christ's sake. Dumb asses......the wording of the law just needs to be tweaked so it's not so vague. It's intended to protect honest people like me who might get carjacked or accosted on the street by scumbag gangbangers who were raised by scumbag gangbangers that think they can take what I have worked hard for because they are too lazy and or stupid to work for a living!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't come to my town or neighborhood jack off a$$holes. Gang bang THIS.
captn curtass- you look like a gangbanger in that profile picture. own a hoodie?
@Agnon Mema
A thief that reacts violently in the act of absconding with stolen material (by swinging a bag of car radios at one of his victims, in this case) is not protected by any self-defense law-- because he is actively in the process of committing a crime (and, since you are apparently oblivious, possessing stolen property is also a crime). By your logic, a drug dealer that shoots a teacher trying to forcibly remove him from school property is "standing his ground" and "defending himself"-- which is abject nonsense.
From a legal standpoint, Mike is correct-- chasing a criminal down the street is not an act of aggression. There are examples of convenience store clerks and other retail employees chasing down shoplifters-- and they are commended for their actions. If someone steals something, the rightful owner has every legal right to confront them in an attempt to retrieve their lawful possessions. If the thief then attacks the person in an attempt to abscond with the goods, they're just adding additional charges to their rap sheet- and furthermore, the individual who was a) legally in the right to confront them and b) is the victim of both theft and (presently) an assault is 100% legally justified in defending themselves from the criminal. The fact that I (or anyone) has to explain that to you is just f*cking insanity.
Now, that does not mean that the victim can shoot them in the back ala Charger's assertion above-- as far as I know, that is illegal in every state (it is certainly illegal in my state). To shoot someone, there has to be an immediate threat of injury or death (either to yourself or someone else).
I get it, your mad about the Trayvon Martin killing and lean left and hate the NRA with a passion, but this case has several glaring differences-- first of all, the dead bad guy in this case was actively committing a felony (assault + theft, possibly grand theft depending on the value of the stolen merchandise), whereas Trayvon wasn't committing a crime-- at least not definitively (if he assaulted Zimmerman, then he was the aggressor, according to law, but that fact is not established). Secondly, this dead bad guy was caught on tape attacking the victim, who then reacted and stabbed the guy.
To hear you talk, you'd think that someone was entitled to rob your house, walk away with the goods, and if/when you said, "Hey! That's my stuff!" he would have every right to beat the sh*t out of you for "being an aggressor."
Please, for the love of god, tell me you're not that f*cking stupid...
clark, yes I do, and when I wear it, my son looks like Barrack Obama. But all seriousness aside, the guy in the pic is just a guy who looks like me. His name is Habib and I hired him several years ago to protect my family and neighborhood. It's worked well until recently, when he started asking for better medical benefits, which is not too much of a problem, but jeez now I think he wants to unionize. I'm going to write to Dear Abbie, she'll know what to do.
cap, a guy that looks like you? thats funny. its okay. your son looks like barrack obama? sure thats your son?
Agnon Mema..(#1.70)..."Hey Mikey, you already said that you do ANYTHING to get away from someone chasing you to get their stuff back. Now it looks like you're trying to say that the thief didn't have the right to defend himself against someone chasing him.... Stop being a lying, forked-tongue, two-mouthed politician, Mike."
Again, here's what I really said....Notice the part that said if I was a criminal....
"If I just robbed them and they started running towards me I would think they want their stuff back...I would still be the criminal....And I would try to do anything to get away so I wouldn't end up in jail."
That is exactly what the thief did.....tried anything to get away....like wacking the guy in the head with the bag of electronics....and it cost him his life....
How is it you seem to always forget to mention the most important parts of someone else's comment when you reply ???? And it still doesn't change the fact that the criminal doesn't get the same Stand Your Ground protection as does his victim....Read what the Judge ruled again....maybe it will sink in....
Can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink------done with you...
A shame wayne lapper wasn't there to catch a stray.
Florida, easily the most SCREWED UP state of them all. Anything from not being able to count chads in Presidential Elections, Stand your ground Laws that let people go for chasing people down and killing them, Casey Anthony verdicts and the list goes on and on. Florida is so messed up now that seriously, about every 4th car you see here in North Carolina is from Florida. I guess they just have gave up living there. Can't blame them, it's a dangerous place, and if y
My siblings fly south every winter to spend a week in sunny Florida. This year I came a day early and found a cheap hotel on Miami Beach, well at least I could see a small corner of it from my bedroom. Expensive, hard to park, crowded, and somewhat scary. Now I can say, "Been there, done that." The place needs a new attitude, especially in government, and I feel somewhat sorry for the people who have to live, work and raise a family there. Stand your ground is just a symptom of the malaise. New York has it all over Miami.
I love stand your ground.
Agnon seems to be totally ignorant of Law and just argues for the sake of arguing. Perhaps it's his pride that keeps him from extracting foot from mouth and shutting up.
According to Law, a person has a right to defend himself and his property (not necessarily DEADLY force to defend property, but there are exceptions that allow even deadly force to defend property). If a perpetrator of a crime commits or attempts to commit bodily injury during the commission or flight from that crime, that is prima facie evidence that the violence was committed for the purpose of escaping the crime, NOT FOR SELF DEFENSE BECAUSE THE VICTIM CHOSE TO PROTECT HIS PROPERTY.
In words even people of Agnon's ilk can understand: if a victim tries to protect his property (chasing the ahole who stole it falls under that category) then the law expects the perpetrator to stop and return the property, not physically harm the victim. Harming the victim enhances the crime (like from a misdemeanor theft to a felony robbery of a person). Now, if the perpetrator gives back the property (drops it and keeps running) and the victim continues chase and beats the hell out of him or shoots him, then (depending on circumstances) you probably have a new offense and the once victim becomes the new perpetrator.
People like Agnon apparently have more dollars than sense. At some point we have got to stand up to the predators in our society and refuse to become their victims. That is why SYG and Castle Doctrine laws are good. The simple fact of the matter is that if the perpetrator wasn't there perpetrating to begin with, he wouldn't have been stabbed for that car radio or shot for that $200 necklace. If you're drunk and hiding from the police (reference in a post above about an incident that happened in Texas a few months ago) then don't choose someone's back porch in the middle of the night. If you do and get shot, then it was your own ignorance that did you in. You know, you could have always taken the misdemeanor Public Intoxication charge and gone home the next morning, sure maybe $100 poorer but at least still alive.
Agnon, start blaming the people who are at fault in these situations. The perpetrators, not the victims, dummy!
just what I was thinking,...... karma dude,.......... people don't pay enough attention to that
Umm, maybe it's because just like heaven, hell and God, "karma" is made up nonsense to make the superstitious hoi polloi feel better about their station in life? Just a thought.
Regardless of what its called, Stand Your Ground or something else, gun violence begets more gun violence.
avoid nasty places......wrong place & time.
Arney, Florida?
hey jmccranky - sounds like you need to take a nap.
by the way - karma will be watching.
@2.1 What goes around comes around. Is that more PC ???
All those people saying they will kill someone for stealing something sound like 'macho tough guys.' It's wrong to steal but even wronger to kill someone. You don't kill someone for stealing something. This is not the Wild West, although the NRA and some gun nuts are trying to make it so. The Stand Your Ground laws have already created a lot of problems. A teenager was shot for hiding on the porch of a home. He didn't mean any harm to the homeowner. He didn't have to be shot and KILLED. Sounds to me like the people doing the shooting are frightened trigger-happy nut jobs.
I want a stand your ground law in MN. Then I can go kill people for little to no reason. Why should Florida get all the press?
28 states have SYG laws; it isn't just Florida. And as far as I know, no one has been released after being caught 'killing people for no reason' in Florida. The 2 cases the media has jumped on - Zimmerman and this one - self defense applies. Zimmerman shot a man who was beating him, and Garcia stabbed a dude who was swinging a weapon at him.
Chicago has an outright ban on guns, and they're killing each other like crazy there. I'd prefer to have the option to defend myself
fred the puppy, Trayvon Martin was likely defending himself against Zimmerman's attack, but we may never know because we so far have only the witness accounts of the END of the fight and ONLY Zimmerman's side of the story; Trayvon is dead, so he is unable to tell his side of it. The guy who stealing radios WAS defending himself from an attack because Garcia chased him down -- which actually made Garcia the aggressor. If Zimmerman had died, and Garcia had died -- you would be screaming about how that "Stand Your Ground" law needs to be repealed.
You ALREADY have the right to defend yourself, bubba, even in Chicago. By the way, bubba, having a gun on your hip does not make you safe when the other person already has their gun out and pointing it at you with full intent to pull the trigger.
So Debbie Chicagoland, what is your address? I know stealing is wrong but you will not catch me. And if you do I have nothing to worry about after all, killing is more wrong than stealing. That means that you will not harm me for taking your stuff. By the time the cops show up I will be gone. Oh yeah, and by the time the cops show up you may be dead. You see, if I have such little regard for you as to steal your possessions, I probably have little enough regard for you to kill you (even with a bag of radios) to make sure I don't get caught.
Actually, I may just wait in a dark place for you to show up so I can rape or kill you. After all, just because I am hiding on your porch or some other dark place in direct proximity to your home entrance, doesn't mean I plan to harm you (in your opinion) so I am free to do what I wish with no worry of repercussions.
DISCLAIMER: I do not wish to harm Debbie Chicagoland or anyone else. I live about 1000 miles from Chicago, which is where I presume she lives. I do not want to know her address. What I have typed here is just an example to make the anti-self defenders think about the other side.
My wife and I both have concealed carry permits. We both carry all the time. We are not afraid to defend ourselves or others. However, we also know discretion. I would not shoot someone for stealing from me. I would chase them if they stole from me. If they out ran me, oh well; they won. I would shoot them if they chose to challenge me rather than capitulate to arrest. I would shoot them for an armed robbery or an assault.
Debbie Chicagoland and all the other anti-self defenders out there, be careful about your philosophies. Believe me, if sheep could defend themselves from wolves or if zebras could defend themselves from lions they would. You may feel that you were put here to be the prey of some animal but many of us do not. The good thing for you is that those of us who are ready to defend ourselves are also ready to defend you if the need should arise.
Agnon Mema. You werent there so shut up.
Ophotfoot, neither were you. What makes you so much more special?
p.s., go back and read what what was written -- not just what you want it to say.
All you trigger-happy shoot-first-ask-if-the-victim-is-innocent-later people: Debbie did NOT say that it is wrong to defend yourself. Please learn to COMPREHEND what you read -- and how to be HONEST in your replies.
"This is not the Wild West, although the NRA and some gun nuts are trying to make it so. The Stand Your Ground laws have already created a lot of problems. A teenager was shot for hiding on the porch of a home. He didn't mean any harm to the homeowner. He didn't have to be shot and KILLED. Sounds to me like the people doing the shooting are frightened trigger-happy nut jobs."...Debbie Chicagoland
Agnon Mema, I did read and comprehend what she wrote. She is obviously anti-gun and anti-self defense. What she expects is for someone to find someone on their porch and presume the person means them no harm. The person who presumed ends up the victim. Now Debbie wants the police to be paid more to find the predator that was hiding on the porch and bring them in for rehabilitation. Then she wants more laws to keep the victims safe while demanding that there be more victims made available. You see, the police are not responsible for preventing crime; their job, as clarified by the SCOTUS several years ago is to investigate and arrest after the criminal act has been perpetrated. We are not guaranteed protection by the local law enforcement. Accordingly, many of us chose to legally (and if that right is taken away then to illegally) defend ourselves. You are invited to be one of the 12 that judge me, because I am not ready to be carried by 6 to appease the anti-self defenders.
The funniest thing is that you jumped in to tell us what Debbie Chicagoland meant instead of giving her the chance to clarify her own position. I guess you really are anti-self defense.
Freddy.... The kid who was shot and killed just because he was hiding in/on that porch DID NOT have to be shot or killed. The person who shot that kid decided to shoot first -- and worry about whether the kid was an actual threat AFTERWARDS. Killing someone just because because you're scared they MIGHT hurt you is not defending yourself, it is simply being stupid.
Plus, the right of self-defense is not being taken away by anyone. If you really need to use a gun to defend yourself against a scared kid who is only trying to hide from someone else, you have more of a problem than you think.
Oh, and where, EXACTLY, did I tell anyone what Debbie actually meant? Please, show everyone EXACTLY where I did that. You, however, have tried to tell everyone what she "really" meant -- as well as what i have "really" said. I do hope that your kids do not get shot just because they "look like" they might be a threat.........
Fred4Congress: "if sheep could defend themselves from wolves or if zebras could defend themselves from lions they would. You may feel that you were put here to be the prey of some animal but many of us do not."
That's a great quote. For the record, I am not 'trigger-happy' by any means, and I do completely believe that it is far better to try to diffuse a situation, rather than escalating it into a fatal situation.
However, there are ultimately times where the predator will not be interested in talking, negotiating or having the situation diffused in any way, and the prey will then have to choose. At that moment, you are either the hammer or the nail.
But isn't this just another case of thinning the herd?
...sounds to me like a simple case of "poetic Justice".
"Garcia had chased down and stabbed a thief who had broken into his truck"
Where were the headlines and "outrage" that a criminal got what he deserved? ... oh right, Garcia was not light-skinned enough for anyone to use the event for political pandering, whining, publicity, and social division.
You just can't stop the spin can you pjam09? You're pathetic.
what spin. the original stabbing incident was never front and center, the outrage was never evident, and where are the celeb race mongers?
Where are the black panthers and the bounty on this guys head? (or was this a bounty hit?)
Pj is correct-this story is not a saleable commodity.
There were, you just weren't paying attention. And if you think that stealing a car stereo is enough for him to "deserve" being killed, then you should maybe rethink some things.
Racist always
You idiots did'nt pay attention THE JUDGE CLEARED HIM not the police cheif nor the prosecutor.
Maybe if he was released without being cleared by a judge, there would be "outrage"?
There's a big difference between chasing a criminal in the act and following a teenager doing nothing! No matter what your color is!
I don't think either deserved to be killed. Just wonder why there is only outrage when the race card can be played.
And besides, 'Z'man was only white for the convenience of the lynch mob.
Stand your ground is crazy. Open up the flood gates for any reason to murder. Real smart.
Someone who doesn't like you could just simply blow your head off and say you attacked them.
Chases down thief who was stealing from him. Thief decides to fight. Thief dies. I am fine with that.
You hit the nail on the head p...., white people could care less if a white person gets shot, unless its a black celebrity like O.j, black people on the other hand believe if they scream enough they will pass another socialist liberal law giving a free handout to anyone who thinks they,ve been racially screwed......
@Paul Bearer; Hey, booboo -- I'm "white", and I'm outraged that Zimmerman was able to use that "Stand Your Ground" law to PROFILE and KILL Martin.
Hey, maybe you, Paul Bearer, will be the next person to be murdered by someone who will later use a "Stand Your Ground" defense -- because you "threatened" them just by being there.
Ed-680993
When you chase someone down, you become the aggressor, and can be charged with assault. The thief, even though a thief, was being defending himself. Had the thief lived and his assailant died -- you would be hollering about how that "Stand Your Ground" law is a piece of BS legislation.
The difference here is that Garcia was actually chasing down a guy who was in the middle of stealing stuff from Garcia's truck. I don't think it made sense to pursue the guy, but he appears to have been committing the crime. The outrage in the Zimmerman case is that Martin was minding his own business while zimmerman was following him. That is why there is an outrage. If Martin had been running out of someone's house with a TV or breaking into a neighbors car, or god forbid, raping a white girl in the back yard, then zimmerman's case might be stronger and there would have been less of an outcry.
I'm outraged people are outraged for the wrong reason regarding the Zimmerman case. You all fell hook line and sinker for the bias media coverage of the incident.
Even with the cold hard facts staring people in the face, the bias portrayed by the media and race baiters has blinded you all. Most of you had your minds made up before a single piece of evidence was provided.
No, trying to retrieve stolen goods does not make you the aggressor. You are the victim of theft. The judge doesn't agree with you either in this case either, because the deceased person attacked first with car batteries.
Judging from what he did with the radios after he killed the guy, I'd say he likely wasn't the rightful owner of them, so any of you saying he is a good guy for killing the theif need to think a bit more.
Car radios, not batteries.
Where are Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on this one. You can't make any money selling hoodies with this one.
I have seen this guy before. I believe his story was on an episode of the First 48.
Bobby Jones Bia
I am surprised that anyone, including you, can still believe Zimmerman's story. He's a "Neighborhood Watch Coordinator" -- who doesn't even know his own neighborhood (he wasn't sure about his location, nor the names of the streets, because "he doesn't live on that street"). He saw a hoodie-wearing young black man who was looking around the neighborhood -- and AUTOMATICALLY ASSUMED that young man was looking to burglarize the houses. He wasn't even sure of what he had told the dispatcher only a few days prior! The more Zimmerman "proves" what happened that night, the more he shows that it just did not happen the way he claims it did.
ALL "Stand Your Ground" laws that allow anyone to kill someone just because of some "feeling" of being threatened, or allow anyone to chase down and kill someone "because they are a criminal" MUST be repealed!
I am not surprised people are basing their arguments on personal emotional feelings instead of evidence. That is precisely the goal that the biased media and the prosecution has in mind. Neither want evidence examined, because all the evidence points to Zimmerman as innocent and using self defense as the reason for using his gun. Furthermore Martin had a history of violent and deviant behavior that for some reason is being hidden as well as possible.
They are not even using the stand your ground augment.
Hey Bobby, since Trayvon "had a history of violent and deviant behavior", perhaps you can provide some actual documentation of it. As for George, I watched that video of his "walk-through" with the police.
George sure said "I think I told them that" and "I'm not sure of..." enough. Hell, he didn't even know his own neighborhood very well at all, a neighborhood consisting of a whole three streets.
Oh, and yes, George did use that "Stand Your Ground" defense from the very start.
Agnon
Zimmerman doesnt have to prove anything, the evidence speaks for itself, he is the only one who had injuries consistant with being attacked, what do you think a reasonable jury is going to think. He was attacked, he defended himself, what more is there.
The entire reason Martin was in that neighborhood visiting his dad's girlfriend is because he was suspended from school for possession of drugs. He also slapped a bus driver, and his parents took his facebook site down because of the negative light the world would see him in. He talked about fighting and thug life all the time.
The person looking for a fight was Martin that's why he attacked him. Zimmerman's walk through with the police was very detailed. I doubt you would remember everything if you were attacked and forced to use a gun to defend yourself either.
Zimmerman's lawyer stated several times the stand your ground law is not their defense.
Steve, Trayvon didn't have any injuries on his hands consistent with punching anyone, either. But, hey, you go ahead and just disregard the coroner's report if you want to.
Again, and for the last time, Bobby -- show some documentation of how Trayvon "had a history of violent and deviant behavior". Oh, wait, it's all being hidden by the nasty media people.......
Hey, Bobby, if you have a public argument with someone, does that automatically mean that you are violent and deviant person, too?
http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/Trayvon-Martin-Suspended-From-School-Three-Times-Report-144403305.html
His cousin is the one who tweeted about Martin "swinging on a bus drive"
I don't think any of us will ever see the facebook posts since his parents removed the site. I admit I am basing the facebook opinion on hearsay and the fact that his parents removed the site, but I have seen pictures posted. However most people including yourself are basing your entire argument on guesses and assumptions, not the evidence provided.
I think you know the answer to your question, and are letting emotion formulate your opinions. Honestly his past is irrelavant but does provide a history of bad decisions. The evidence in this case is all that's needed to see Zimmerman acted in self defense.
A lot of you are just plain crazy, it doesn't matter what Martin's past history was since that night all he was doing was walking back to the house after going to the store. Zimmerman did his job as neighborhood watch up until he decided to go after Martin because that's in violation of Neighbor Watch rules, and especially after he disobeyed police orders not to follow. Martin was committing no crime and some stranger was accosting him for calmly walking home, we don't know what was said but I do applaud Martin for at least trying to beat down the stranger who had a gun while following him for who knows what horrible thing. Martin was defending himself from his attacker Zimmerman and Zimmerman should be charged with manslaughter at the very least.
While I think it's stupid to chase after a thief for a truck radio, Garcia had every right to defend himself and kill the thief after he attacked Garcia. 2 entirely different situations and should be treated as such.
No, Bobby, I am basing my opinions on the actual evidence that I have seen, something that all jurors are required to do (and no, I am not saying that I am a juror in that yet-to-be-held trial).
So Trayvon was suspended three times, so was my now-Jehova's Witness sister. My sister also smoked marijuana, and liked to go out partying and get drunk, too, yet she never burglarized any houses. That news story does not actually prove that Trayvon was out to burglarize a house or attack anyone.
As for any pictures that someone else has posted "proving" that Trayvon was just a nasty thug, pictures are easily photoshopped -- so they appear to be what they are not.
Yet injuries prove Zimmerman was attacked and that doesn't matter? If Zimmerman was out to shoot Martin as most would like to believe why would he have any injuries? Instead we would have one dead kid and an uninjured Zimmerman.
Keith, that thief also had every right to defend against what he saw as a threat to himself: Garcia chasing him down. THAT is what so many people are "forgetting".
A good, solid body-block and/or tackle works wonderfully well against someone with a bag of radios. If Garcia was fit enough to chase the guy down, he was fit enough to take him down WITHOUT knifing him.
No Bobby, Zimmerman's injuries do not prove that he was attacked -- because those injuries are simply CONSISTENT WITH injuries sustained while being attacked. Hell, I can whomp myself on the back of my head and make it look like someone else did the whomping..........
Bobby Jones Bia
ah, his cousin "tweeted" about it.... A "tweet" doesn't actually prove he did it, though. Is there any video or eye-witness statements that actually prove anything, Bobby?
Now how did I miss this one....
Bobby Jones Bia
No, Bobby, all the judge said was that Garcia was within his rights to defend himself -- NOT that Garcia was not the aggressor when he decided to chase down the thief. Good try, though.
Freedom eroding away I don't think either deserved to be killed. Just wonder why there is only outrage when the race card can be played.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I totally agree that ''chasing a thief down'' doesn't sound like just 'standing your ground' - we certainly shouldn't be executing people for radio theft.
That being said - the media didn't seem to jump on the Garcia story nearly to the same level as the Zimmerman / Martin story. However, that's not really a legal system or a police issue, that's more a media issue. The media shapes what we think, and the media picks stories that it thinks will sell. It seems that they felt that the Zimmerman / Martin case was something that they could spin into enraging people, while it seems they didn't think the Garcia case had the same 'appeal' to the public.
Agnon
So youre saying all of Zimmermans injuries were self inflicted, good luck trying to sell that to a jury.
Zimmerman has a much stronger case than this guy did. Looks like he will walk.
if you commit a crime you are acting ''outside the law" in my opinion that negates all your civil rights ..including the right of self defense... getting chased and killed for the crime you commited is not a violation of your rights ..your rights are null and void when you act outside of the law . Thats what " outlaw" means ..in days gone by a person being declared an outlaw meant you were stripped of all your rights and anyone could kill you at any time and even collect a reward for it..in essense you had no rights at all..being declared an outlaw scared many criminals into turing themselves to face trial rather than facing the general public..im sure many people with he principals involved ..commit a crime lose your rights..thats simple enough isnt it?
Cro magnon-mema STFU will you. You are defending criminals. Go preach to someone who cares.
IRONIC, HUH?
Laura, actually ironic means that the opposite happened, you're thinking of the word coincidence.
He stabbed to death a person who had broken into his truck And got away with that .WOW
Ya. a criminal got killed during the crime. Be nice if it happened EVERY time.
No, fred, he didn't get killed during a crime -- he was killed AFTER the crime had happened. Sure would be nice if certain people would be HONEST and TRUTHFUL.
By the way, fred, I do hope that you never, ever, not even accidentally, walk out of a store without paying for something. I'm sure that your own family would find it to be so tragic should YOU be killed while committing a crime -- even an accidental crime.
Agnon, you need to take a chill pill. You are just getting too worked up over all of this.
Garcia didn't need to confront this guy. After all, the guy was only armed with a bagful of radios. Why wasn't Garcia paraded about and his home address mis-tweeted by Spike Lee?
And why do I have a sneaky idea that Zimmerman would flee if he were granted bail? Yep it will come around to haunt you!
and what, pray tell, does this story have to do with that one, or do you post 'Z'man comments to every thread?
I think he does...always one that has to bring this out!
Because the moron this article is about used that same "Stand Your Ground" defense to justify killing someone who was not an immediate threat.
Oh, and from the keyboard of Freedom eroding away, posted only a few comments above:
Freedom eroding away
So, Freedom, where was the animosity towards the Zimmerman reference in the comment to which that was a reply?
why are people of color involved..it seems...in so much more crime than white people???????????
A better question would be why do Black people who commit crimes make the news more that white people? Could it be........
They are not. It is the way your closed racist mind sees it. How many people of color do you see eating people, unorthodoxed church villages, and malestation of children. Dont believe what you see, get the facts.
wtf is malestation of children? Get the facts my ass, dude get a dictionary!
@Jimradio -- You "conveniently" forgot to mention other "people of color" -- Bernie Madoff, Stanford, John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, Ted Bundy, Charlie Manson, the Colombine Shooters, the shooter from Seattle who stalk, shot and killed 16 innocent civilians in Afghanistan, Jerry Sandusky, Catholic pedophile priests, etc., ad nauseaum. PHUCKED UP people come in ALL colors.
According to a Justice Department report released in July 2003, the U.S. prison population surpassed 2 million for the first time—2,166,260 people were incarcerated in prisons or jails at the end of 2002 (the latest statistics available). Since 1990, the U.S. prison population, already the world's largest, has almost doubled.
About 10.4% of the entire African-American male population in the United States aged 25 to 29 was incarcerated, by far the largest racial or ethnic group—by comparison, 2.4% of Hispanic men and 1.2% of white men in that same age group were incarcerated. According to a report by the Justice Policy Institute in 2002, the number of black men in prison has grown to five times the rate it was twenty years ago. Today, more African-American men are in jail than in college. In 2000 there were 791,600 black men in prison and 603,032 enrolled in college. In 1980, there were 143,000 black men in prison and 463,700 enrolled in college.
Read more: Prison Population Exceeds Two Million — Infoplease.com #ixzz1z1kjDMJL
Maybe he spelled it wrong so he wouldn't get flagged. People do that all the time on these message boards.
GulfVet.
What the hell is "wtf"? It sure ain't in any dictionary I have on my bookshelves.....
They are not, its just that people of color are displayed more by the media to play up the stereotype. I could in turn ask, why do so many white people molest children and buy child porn, but that wouldn't be fair would it? The truth is everyone no matter the color, has the potential for evil acts. I distrust all people equally. Safer that way.
Son Of Anubis, those statistics mean only that more blacks are in prison/jail than are whites. It does NOT mean that blacks commit more crimes than whites do.
Hell, there are more self-proclaimed "Christians" in prison/jail than any other religious group, too. If you go only by that statistic, it must mean that Christians commit more crimes than anyone in any other religious group, too.
Hey Agnon, ever tried urbandictionary.com? Lotsa acronyms are explained there.
Hey Treese, I use the Oxford English Dictionary, the American Heritage Dictionary and Webster's Collegiate Dictionary. I couldn't care less about "txtspk".
p.s., I said "on my bookshelves", not "on the interwebs".
JIMradio:
They aren't.
What's the stats on those locked up on false charges...like the football player, Brian Banks?
Blacks commit far more crimes than others do. Blacks have a 70% illegitimacy rate which is about double the rate of whites. Connect the dots, folks.
Hey you can get an education in prison now, so why go to college? Commit crimes and get free college education, and law degree
Trudy, Beachgirl, Laura - Reading Comprehension Fail!
"Garcia had chased down and stabbed a thief who had broken into his truck after the thief swung a bag filled with heavy car radios at him"
Exactly. He chased him down and stabbed. No standing involved.
TheAirdog, he chased the thief down, which made him -- NOT the thief -- the aggressor at that point.
Standing your ground means you do not run AWAY when attacked. It does not mean chasing down someone and then killing them. Garcia had to have had that knife in his hand while chasing down the thief -- which means that when he used that knife it was a PRE-MEDITATED act of violence.
Still not standing your ground when you chase someone down or follow them. You give that right up as soon as you pursue someone.
Agreed. He should have stabbed or shot the thief, and then drug him back to his truck and positioned him in an agressive pose in order to satisfy your 'standing' requirment.
Had he not been out committing the crime of robbery (bag of radios....how many broken in cars is that?), he might still be alive today.
Had Garcia not decided to chase him down -- causing him to feel the need to defend himself -- he might still be alive today. What's your point, other than that you seem to think it's ok to kill someone just because they're stealing a car radio?
I feel it is becoming increasingly dangerous to be a black man in America 2.0. Shoot first and screw the questions. I remember the 60's. Oh hell, here we go again.
Here we go again are you kidding it never stopped.
Ditto, I wholly agree with mfladogs above.
Young black men have much more to fear from other blacks than any perceived 'boogyman'.
Unless the boogyman is also black.
Hell, try being an Injun in South Dakota some time.
fred the puppy
Hey fred, how do you know this? Are you a young black man, or happen to know any young black men, fred?
All anyone can do right now is engage is speculation. I don't know if calling in Karma or coincidence necessarily applies here.
Violence begets violence.
True, but sometimes violence is necessary. Even Gandhi understood that.
Good. Hopefully Zimmerman is next.
Think I'm cruel to say that? Maybe, but turnabout is fair play, and Karma is a b*tch. He got what he deserved in the end, and Zimmerman will, one way or another, too.
Ya, and I hope one of your female loved ones gets ass-raped while you stand there and can do nothing but cry.
Um... if that was meant to get us to support the SYG law, then you need to know that you could do something about it without that law being present.
If obamao had a son, he would look like this guy!!!!
Isn't this just what the NRA wants and advocates? Every person should grab a weapon and exact their own personal version of vigilante or revenge justice. What goes around then comes around and everyone winds up dead. And yet the stupid public cannot see the insanity of it all.
While there is no current evidence so far, it would not be a long stretch to find that the one who shot Garcia was related to the guy he stabbed to death and then was exonerated for killing. It MAY be just odd coincidence. His "retribution" came in the form of a bullet.
And BTW, isn't it interesting that the police refer to him as a "black male" when it seems pretty clear that he is Latino? [but he is of color, brown skinned]
@!$%# stanned
Have you ever notice how every victum in the world is kind and caring, a perfect angel...Just once I'd like to hear the truth...In the mean time, I'm sorry for the family, But Damn people, get a gun and fight back, true you don't shoot someone for swinging a bag of car radios at you, but you don't take a knife to a gun fight either...
He didn't shoot the guy. He stabbed him.
i laugh about that all the time, every time someone dies even if they were the biggest scum on earth, miraculously they are angels according to their family and just sitting in heaven blessing everyone on earth with good fortune...its ridiculous, your right for once I would like to hear 1 gang bangers/criminal's mother crying as to how her son is dead because he lived the life of a criminal..own up to what your kids are people.....As for this story, idiot steels car radio's gets stabbed to death stupid man...stupid man takes the life of a guy who was stealing car radios...really? was it worth it? was he swinging at him constantly, on top of him beating up him so he knifed him? that would make sense..oh wait no it wouldnt because that was the zimmerman/travon story and that didn't work for him.
Some people just gravitate toward conflict.
Frankly, this is why laws similar to stand your ground and concealed carry's need to be around. If Garcia had been armed, this story would probably be about one dead criminal, and a man who saved the life of a 16 year old boy. Instead, we just get two dead victims.
And just how do you know that those two dead victims were not actually the aggressors? Oh, right, they couldn't possibly be the aggressors -- because A) they were unarmed, and B) one of them previously knifed and killed someone who was stealing car radios.
Hey, Trayvon Martin was unarmed, too, and George Zimmerman had the gun -- yet somehow Trayvon was the aggressor.... Take it easy, folks, it's just an example of how BoredLurker's thinking is likely flawed.
Idiots ranting on about Zimmerman when they are separate cases...
I really hate tha amount of stupid people in this world.
Self-hate is unhealthy. Maybe you should seek help?
Philipp-3856986
Yep, it's idiotic -- so why are you commenting on comments about Zimmerman? The two cases may be separate, but they are related, in that they both involve the question of JUSTIFIED use of deadly force.
Give everyone without a criminal background a gun. Let's start taking target practice at car thieves, purse snatchers, drug dealers, child molesters, etc. Crime will go way down overnight.
yes...that would be more productive and less costly then shooting paper targets at a shooting range.
Hey, Villum, who gets to decide who is an actual criminal? Do YOU get to decide, or does your neighbor get to decide? Better hope your neighbor doesn't see YOU as a criminal.
Oh, and I just love that part about "everyone without a criminal background". Guess that means everyone who actually ignores the law, but has yet to be caught. Say, are YOU one of those people, Villum?
If Obama had a son CONs would be happy the same fate would befall him. Surprised the poor, victim whites (versus justice driven whites) aren't clapping another young black man who possibly smokes pot is dead. Did he wear a hoodie at least?
Afterall, if he wore a hoodie he would deserve it.
If he was killed in retribution for using stand your ground defense? Nah. Killing others doesn't deserve justice...
They need to get rid of this idiotic law asap. You can't take castle doctrine to the streets. I mean, if someone stranger's in your house and you shoot them, it's a bit more clear-cut then shooting someone in the streets and saying it was "self defense". The dead can't talk.
You don't even know the difference between Castle Doctrine and Stand Your Ground - or No Duty to Retreat as it is known in most other states.
Maybe you shoudln't comment on things you don't know anything about?
(NAH! Then there would be no comments on these forums).
TheAirdog, Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law, as it is currently written, allows ANYONE to kill someone else just because they "feel" threatened. Also, it allows ANYONE to kill someone else AND GET AWAY WITH IT as long as nobody else saw it or videoed it; all they have to do is claim "self-defense". If it's done with a gun, all they have to do is claim "self-defense" and have that magic legal permit to carry and use a gun.
Fact is, the way certain "Stand Your Ground" laws are written, they allow ANYONE who is legally carrying to kill someone just because of some perceived "feeling" of being threatened. Sorry, but out on the streets you ALWAYS have more options than you do while in your home. No, you don't have to turn and run away -- but that gun is a weapon of LAST resort.
Gun nuts carrying guns looking for trouble will most likely find it.
What's that have to do with this story? It just says that someone chose to kill these two people on the side of the road. neither of the victims are cited as having fire arms.
Read before you write
Did you even read the story?
Garcia used a knife. He was killed by a gun.
Actually, the police never said there were guns on the scene or not of the 2 who were shot dead, the writer of the story doesn't mention it either, which leaves everything to speculation as always, with ALL Media playing the 'game' to get people of all sides involved and enflame the situation, for RATINGS.
I'm 61 years old and was attacked at the city park by three teens I got two broke ribs and my head beat, so now I carry a hand gun and if you attack me now you will die, but by your standards I can't kill these sweet teens? get a life ! this day and age you have to carry a gun or die like a sheep...
If someone just walks up to you and starts beating your azz, you can defend yourself, silver. By no one's standards on this post (that I have seen) say you can't.
This might be a revenge killing.
Maybe