Yes, this is horrible. My thoughts and prayers go out to her family.

And do I smell lawsuit??? mmmm, yup!

I was guessing electrocution. Many miniature golf courses are cobbled together with chicken wire, duct tape, and wires everywhere. Most of them have water features with lights and so forth around them. That some of them would be unsafe does not surprise me in the LEAST. My condolences to the girl's family. How sad when a fun day out turns to tragedy.

Blake - 2644321 ..... Amazing how someone tragically dies and your first thought is a lawsuit and money! What is wrong with you people? Is this what our country has come to??

Wow, nothing like rushing to judgement before knowing the facts. Call the lawyer first. Great country we live in. Pathetic.

@cincyfan2009, it is kind of obvious that this will turn into a lawsuit for something like $2MIL. It is despicable, but thats the way people work, which is instead of trying to hold someone criminal liable, people would rather hold someone financially reliable, which in most cases is the only way to go about it.

It is very hard to hold a company or business criminally liable. How do you identify and single people out for punishment? Financial punishment is much easier. Company is at fault, punish the whole company.

cincyfan - his first thought was he thoughts and prayer going out to the family. His second thought was the lawsuit.. Amazing how some people can't count thoughts...

I'm sorry...but i didn't see one single thing mentioned about "building codes". Might as well say "it's a shame those damn Floridian rats like to chew wires" or "somebody should do something about those malfunctioning tasers everywhere" such is the long and fact less stretch of blaming it on overlooked building codes. And here sparks some heated exchange about the " evil mini golf industry" indiscriminantly killing the poor vacationing children with nothing more than some apparently biased and completely unsupported claim that the "lax building codes did it". Such is the "harmlessness" of allowing everyone with a chip on their shoulder and a computer at their disposal to spew disinformation at will.

DeadlyFoez, it's not that people would rather hold someone financially responsible, but a civil court case (where the defendent may have to pay monetary damages) is much easier to win than a criminal court case(where the defendent may serve jail time).

And I am sure BOTH types of lawsuits will be filed, the criminal lawsuit always preferred to be tried first, because any criminal conviction is a 'slam dunk' win for a civil lawsuit.

How about we stick the the idea that a child was killed and a person injured while trying to save her instead of turning this into a nasty argument over suing people?

Oh, yeah, I forgot people do that every time a person is killed. What they do is their business, but they lost a child. Compassion, people!

Yes there will be a lawsuit and there should be. It is quite possible that the death was caused by faulty installation of electric power but that may not be criminal. The family suffered a terrible emotional loss for sure but funerals and burials are not free nor are they cheap. For some a decent wake, funeral and burial would destroy the family financially. If the incident doesn't have any criminal charges placed than a civil suit would be the only way to punish the responsible person. NOT EVERY lawsuit is a money grab or wrong folks.

Poor little angel. I have to ask, and no one will like it, but why didn't one her parents try to find the ball? I am not over-protective, but I would have looked for the ball myself rather than my child for the simple reason that it is near water and in a public place where my daughters could get grabbed by someone. I can't be the only one thinks that way, or am I?

myspellcheckerisbroken

In hind sight you are probably right.

There is always the ole would have, could have, should have.

No one usually mentions it because it is just that, hind sight.

My condolences to all the family and friends.

I think it is absurd and absolutely unbelievable that everyone is worried about a lawsuit and how much money the family is going to sue for. I know this family and knew Ashton and this is the nicest family you will ever meet. It is pathetic that everyone is mentioning lawsuit and asking about her parents. She was 11 years old and independent, even at 5 years old she was independent. Does anyone who takes their children mini golfing on vacation worry about getting a ball in 2 feet of water being shocked? The parents are 100% not to blame, I can not even imagine what they are going through right now.

Hunt-797031 - I agree with you. It's a tragedy and very sad, but accidents can happen anywhere. Whether the resort did anything wrong or not, it happened on their property and therefore they will be held liable.

I agree with Devilson. There is a difference between criminal liability and liability. Not all deaths like this are criminal but a resport is financially liable for incidents like this (note that I did not call this an accident). There will be financial responsibility/liability if there was faulty equipment or there was a way the resor could have prevented this - and most places know not to mix water and electricity. I would also not be surprised if the resort operators lawyers were there before the vicitms family have had an opportunity to take a breath - often in situations like this the opertors lawyers will try and cut a check and get the family to sign an agreement not to sue. Yes I am cynical.

ANd I feel for the little girls family and the guy who tried to save her has to be tough on them. My prayers are with them.

How about at that age children and little qirls in particular it seems to me, are in the process of establishing their independance and she didn't want any help? I've heard it a thousand times from my daughter when she was that age...the often perturbed and stern mouthed response of "I can do it myself daddy"! And it's a fairly broad assumption to suppose that the child was too far out of reach or eye shot to thwart a would be child snatcher.

Having them glued to your hip from daylight till dawn and constantly able to defend them against routine bouts with skinned knees,stumped toes and hurt feelings,much less some completely unforseen and bizzare accident of having the poor child electrocuted on a family outing, is quite frankly impossible to achieve, predict or be routinely prepared for and it's wholly unrealistic to expect that constant level of hyper vigilance from the best of parents and in no way shape or form is it any indication at all they were some neglectful and unconcerned pair of dolts.

Had they been in some dark and brooding third world den of iniquity,seething with would be child abducters and had let her wander off into dark alley's...well yes maybe their parenting skills could be questioned. But,even in this day in age...when it seems a pervert is lurking around every corner, a putt,putt golf course in the broad light of day,no doubt filled with other families just doesn't shreek out eminent danger ... water course or not. It was a horrid and completely unforseen turn of events and there is no doubt in my mind that a life time filled with sweated and sleepless nights of the "should haves,could haves,and would haves, will be torture and punishment enough for those people. They surely don't need any help in that regard...because there is no doubt that they have already indicted and convicted themselves.

How very sad. But, I couldn't help but think of the preacher playing his lifetime's greatest round of golf in a rain storm in "Caddyshack". Putt on young lady. Putt on.

@ Renee

There is no need to be hostile. I asked a question. I don't have my children stuck to me, but when out in public, I am not going to send them off looking for a ball. There are many dangers to children, as witnssed by this terrible tragedy. Although my children can swim, I would not let them go off to a pond, and one they are unfamiliar with, looking for a ball. I would have gotten another one from the attendant and moved on.

If other people don't want to watch their children, that's not my business, but looking at this situation, it appears the pond is off the beaten path and in an unfamiliar area. Hence the reason I would have done it myself or not at all.

First, My thoughts and prayers go to the family as said before dealing with what was a fun day turned tragedy. Secondly, as Bill Murray said it in Caddyshack" If I kill all the golfers, I'll go to jail, Not golfers, Gulphers, you,..." Yes unfortunately the maintenance group needs to re-review the electrical points near water features even include a ball retrieving device so no need to go anywhere near these water features. How long have them items been since inspected (neglected). Was there a sign posted that said not to go into the water- or near it? Look at the unfortunate circumstances form both sides. Even so, no amount of $$ will bring the loss of life back- that is the sad part!

Law suits are the reality We live in today, take off the blinders. If their is an opportunity you can be sure 99.9 percent of the people will sue, why shouldn't they, do you know how much it cost to raise a kid in today's economy, and the pain and suffering the parents have to go through, and I can assure you that the funeral and services are not free.

@Bruce: Yes, sadly, that's what our country has come to.

a two foot pond on a miniature golf course inside a resort does not seem to be off the beaten path. this case is a sad tragedy. i am very sorry for the family. life can be so fragile sometimes. one moment they are on vacation and celebrating their daughters birthday after nourishing her for eleven years in the world and then they are mourning her death. in hindsight most of us have had times when we would have zigged instead zagged. hopefully at the least this story can be a reminder to be civil to each other and appreciative of the loved ones in our lives.

@myspellcheckerisbroken

As a parent, if you have to worry about the dangers in a mini-golf course. There is something wrong. There are precautions and then there are phobias, a mini-golf course should not be a place for phobias.

I'm just going to say that I am sorry for the family. My prayers go out to them.

ugh, this makes me so sad. SOOO sorry for that family!

you would think this would have happened before, and perhaps it has, but i imagine the little "pond" is part of the course so did something occur to suddenly make it dangerous? you can't tell me someone hasn't knocked their ball over there before now. i don't know, just seems like something must have recently occurred. maybe a short or a damaged cord. either way, i just feel so bad for her parents : (

God bless this little sweetheart.

Sorry for the loss and I hope the family can get through it together.

I questioned it too, as myspellshcerisbroken did, only because the article stated that a stranger heard the girl scream and went to her rescue. Being a parent I would have been close enough to be the first to respond to my daughters screams, if not even close enough to have seen her go in.

That doesn't mean the family would not still end up with the same tragic ending. Plus, the article is not very detailed about the actual incident to deduce any of that type of conclusions.

I'm so sorry for the families lost, we just got back from that same resort in april, and it's not a run down place, it is very nice and my kids had a great time, but we as parents expect that when we do go to a place like that , that our children will be safe this child and parents had know clue that there was danger so please keep in mind that the parents are going through a hard time and they are not thinking a law suit but if they do this place can handle it.

Wherever water and electricity are in close proximity a GFI (ground fault interrupter ) breaker should be in the circuit; this would have cut off the electrical current before the girl would have been injured.

Scottnrg, yes God could have stopped it but he isn't there to protect you from everything. It was the lil girls time to go, if God stopped everyone from physically dying then the world would be over crowded and we would be worse off then what we are right now. This is tragic but she is with God now and is no longer suffering. My prayers are with the family and may they remember the good times, the laughs, the love and never forget them.

@KittyKat1980 So when people die we should say "thank God"? Also I don't see what praying for the family will do now that a little ACTION beforehand could not have done better.

Kittycat- The 11 year olds time to go??????? BS.......

I see no problem with a lawsuit in this case. It's the morons who spill hot coffee on their laps and rush to call a lawyer who piss me off. What a horrible thing to happen to anyone...let alone an 11 year old girl. This should be filed as criminal negligence resulting in death.

"Amazing how someone tragically dies and your first thought is a lawsuit and money! What is wrong with you people? Is this what our country has come to??"

Evidently. Land of the almighty dollar and home of the lawsuit. It has been that way for at least a generation.

I am an Electrician by trade...conditions like this exist all over...when the right factors fall into place it happens...somebody not wearing tennis shoes..or someone grabbing something that is grounded while their touching the fault..electrocution happens..its work done improperly ..or shoty to save money or maybe their was damage to the electrical circuit (loses its ground)..

What's God got to do with this? It's a tragic accident in a world where tragic accidents occur every day. My sympathies go out to the mother and father, as I can't even imagine the pain of losing one of mine at that age. If there's something we can all learn from this, it's to love and appreciate those close to you while you still have them. This type of thing could happen to any one of us.

KittyKat1980 is a friggin moron. You need to sftu now.

Capn-1 , where does it say that building codes were not followed? It could have been natural wear and decay -- accidents do happen.

Too many stupid comments on here to correct them all.

The G.C. will NEVER re-open. I won't be surprised if the owner(s) disappear. The lawsuit will be huge. Poor little girl, & her family. Very sad. I'm surprised no one has blamed this on Obama or Bush yet, or have they?

Water and electricity definitely don't mix. A live electric wire touching water makes the water part of the circuit and does not trigger circuit breakers or fuses. When a person is in the water, especially a child, the electricity passes through the body and does not shut off. The current essentially short circuits the bodies electric system including the heart. My job partially deals with boating safety and this mini golf course incident is very much the same as has occured in boat marinas. When a live wire from a boat or dock contacted the water, people have died when they jumped in to swim. DON'T SWIM IN MARINAS, AND ESPECIALLY KEEP YOUR CHILDREN OUT OF THE WATER THERE! There is a device called a ground-fault circuit interrupter (GFCI outlet or also GFI) that is designed to break the electric circuit if shorts (groundings) occur with water. A GFCI/GFI should be used in all bathroom outlets, kitchen outlets near the sink, and anywhere else water may be present. I think modern building codes require GFCI/GFIs to be installed in those areas, but if you have an older home then you need to install them. Please be safe and live long!

Very sad that building codes were not followed, and that a little girl had to suffer as a result :(

Depending on how long it had been there it may have met building codes just fine when it was built. Generally speaking you are not required to bring something like that up to present code unless you do some renovation project to it. Codes change and evolve every couple of years. What may not meet code today may have met or exceeded code years ago.

This is a tragedy, yes.

But please...

Will you guys quit saying stupid stuff?

Capn-1 was expressing his sadness, he wasn't trying to offend anyone.

Kitty Kat, it may have not been intended but your comment was pretty heartless. She was eleven.

As for lawsuits...yes, there will be one, and why on earth should that be bad? Something awful happened and there should be something done to comfort the family, not that it will help anywhere close to enough.

And finally, myspellcheckerisbroken:

The girl was eleven. She was probably going into 6th grade or somewhere around there, she was not incapable of reaching into a pond and treating children like they cannot manage anything is NOT going to help. They need to learn and baby-ing them will not work. Please don't take this out of context because I am not suggesting that this was a good thing at all.

Yes, this is very tragic. A family on vacation having fun only to have the trip cut short by an accident. But of course there's going to be those that are screaming conspiracy, lawsuits,& such. Just a few thoughts though: the resort needs to fill out some sort of information in regards to the accident,which means some form of the law will get involved. Being that lawyers/attorneys can smell the "blood" in the water from 100 miles away, you don't think they would be ALL over this(from both sides)Also the resort is in Florida which usually means alligators. My husband, who is originally from Florida always tells me there isn't a lake, pond, or large puddle that a gator wouldn't try to get into. Maybe that resort has problems with the local wildlife and trying to do their best to combat the problem. Maybe lack of proper maintenance, maybe, possibly, coulda been, shoulda been, WHATEVER. A little girl has lost her life and a family is no doubt devastated. For those who believe in God & prayer...by all means offer one. For those who don't..NO NEED TO BERATE THOSE WHO DO. Which is SOOOOOO not the point. THE POINT: A LITTLE GIRL HAS LOST HER LIFE DAYS AFTER HER BIRTHDAY AND A WHOLE FAMILY IS DEVASTATED.

An Orange County Sheriff’s Department spokesperson told msnbc.com that police are trying to determine what made the pond water unsafe.

Capn-1 - how does that translate into building codes being violated, Einstein?

TheAdrock13, you have no right calling anyone a "moron" or telling them to shut up. Just because you and several other posters do not put your faith in God, does not mean anyone who does is wrong. In fact the day will come when you will find out how wrong you really are.

Many people believe that God is in control. If you do not that is fine but you have zero right to attack those who do. Yes, the Lord decided it was Ashton's time to die. He decides who lives to 11 and who lives to 111. He decides how we die and he decides when. I will not argue the point further. just as non-believers will not convince believers, in most cases believers will not convince non-believers either. You know this but just want to insult those who don't believe like you. It is the typical tolerance of today; you must tolerate my point of view but keep your own beliefs to yourself. It does not work that way.

Ashton Jojo was killed and her family is hurting. I hope they have the comfort of believing in the Lord and knowing that He is indeed in control. I will pray that the Jojo family finds peace and the strength to continue forward beyond this mournful time. It is not something anyone would want to endure; let's save our attacks for a topic more worthy of such animosity as has been shown here.

There is nothing in the story about her parents sending her to retrieve the ball. It was the ball she was playing. Yes it's very sad, and a lawsuit is sure to follow. In got shocked once, and it was no fun. I'm pretty confident that this girl was doing exactly what most kids would do, in that situation. As for God, if this family believes in God, it can make getting through this easier. If you don't believe, that's fine. This isn't a good time for that debate. Save it for another time.

how sad that in a State with over 1 Million swimming pools, a major resort with water features does not have proper earth-grounding wires from water features. While this does not surprise me in a State that still allows Romex to be used in residential wiring, the State building codes also need to be checked into as well as the failure of the Resort to properly protect its customers.

How sad for this family. Just remember anyone can lose a loved one at the least expected time from a freak accident or a sudden illness. You never know when it could happen or when you leave for work in the morning if you will see your children again or your husband or wife. NEVER EVER fail to let them know you love them when you leave them as it might be the last time you see them. They and you need to know you love each other. I speak from experience. My parents were divorced and I was 11 and staying with my Dad for the weekend. My mother had an accident at home when I wasn't there. I hope that she knew that I loved her but I wasn't sure because I was so excited to see my dad I don't remember if I told her goodbye. still haunts me to this day as I'm sure it will this family. Hopefully they will find peace

WHAT ?!?!? Isnt anybody going to criticize the family for hiring a lawyer ?

C'mon...we ALL know that EVERY lawsuit is just a moneygrab right ?

Isnt anyone going to denigrate the lawyer who takes this case on ?

I made sure of this by rereading the article twice. Nowhere does it say that building codes were not followed nor does it say what caused the electrocution. There could have been a routine malfunction that leaked electricity into the pool, or exposed wires that she touched. An investigation needs to be done just in case someone did indeed fail to do something properly either in design or in maintenance, but accidents happen given that no one has absolute control over this world and what happens in it.

The accidental death of anyone is regrettable and that of a child especially so. I grieve and extend my condolences.

@C.Cole

right on man! we have everything from fortune tellers, to the mighty on this one.

i read this when it was reported the little girl had died at the course, and in no spot from then on was there and sure indication of electricy being at fault. As far as running to make a lawsuit? huh? this could have been some punks idea of a joke by placing a live wire in the pool, or some unforseen issue underlying saftey procedures. most nets used to fish out golf balls are made of plastic, or have a non conductive wrap.(not intended for the prevention of electric shock @ mini courses) so this could have been an issue for who knows how long.

thing is, we dont know crap and wont until an investigation has been completed.

Christopher Cole-2915768

What is a "routine malfunction"? I'm almost speechless on this. God help anyone that hires you to create a safe water environment. So sad.

What a tragedy for that family.

cincyfan2009

Blake - 2644321 ..... Amazing how someone tragically dies and your first thought is a lawsuit and money! What is wrong with you people? Is this what our country has come to??

Sadly enough it is. This is a sue happy america now. People trying to get $$ for anything. Now this incident does deserve litigation, but how many out there are so silly you just want to choke people. I spilled hot coffee on me, im going to sue you.

Nobody thought that maybe this resort ownership reached out to the family and offered to take care of everything for them? It is possible. The family might have hired a lawyer because the resort probably had one there within minutes after the incident. It's normal practice to have a lawyer present asap for liability reasons in these type of situations. Same as after a car accident. I'm sad for this kid. What a crappy way to go.

As far as the God crap, that's normal for weak people. They need to believe in something bigger than "man". It's insecurity. Try believing in what's actually here. Have a little faith in our fellow "man" (or woman, lol). Or, if there is a God, which nobody can say there is or isn't, then just admit he is NOT great. If he was so "great", then why do innocent people die and the worst scum of the earth get to live. Is that some kind of cruel joke? That right there is my reason for having no "faith". It's a joke, a farce, and a lie. I myself do have "faith" in people.

There is overwhelming good that comes from regular people. Believers included. Just tone it down a bit and keep it in the confines of your own cult or group. Why spew it in others faces? It's disrespectful and tasteless. Not everybody feels or believes the way you do. Have some respect for people. Do you want a devil worshipper all up in your grill with devil crap? I bet not. Come back to earth and just think about that.

"off the beaten path" - you make it sound as if the pond is in the middle of nowhere, not right next to the the putt-putt hole in a fenced in complex.... The pond is probably a foot deep and 2 feet from the hole, how is this in any way the parents fault?

It's ridiculous to even insuinate this.

Poor child...my heart goes out to her and her family. No one should have to suffer this.

But there's no question that codes were not followed...that's why we have something called the National Electric Code - it's purpose is to prevent accidents such as this one from occuring.

As far as unlicensed contractors; well, here in Florida our Esteemed Governor - Rick Scott - prides himself on removing pesky regulations on businesses in the state

I would be interested to know who was contracted for wiring up the pump in this pond, who did the work, and what their qualifications were.

You're damn right there is a lawsuit here, if not criminal charges

dissapointed and ashamed

As far as the God crap, that's normal for weak people. They need to believe in something bigger than "man". It's insecurity. Try believing in what's actually here. Have a little faith in our fellow "man" (or woman, lol). Or, if there is a God, which nobody can say there is or isn't, then just admit he is NOT great. If he was so "great", then why do innocent people die and the worst scum of the earth get to live. Is that some kind of cruel joke? That right there is my reason for having no "faith". It's a joke, a farce, and a lie. I myself do have "faith" in people

Its hard for someone who doesnt understand the bible, or rejects to know the answer to your questions. I put limited faith in people, people are fallible and sinful, so I know that people are going to fall. Here is one once to your question though. This is a normal question that people who just dont know, or reject the bible.

This is one of the most difficult questions for Christians to answer.

The “problem of pain,” as the well-known Christian scholar, C.S. Lewis, once called it, is atheism’s most potent weapon against the Christian faith.

All true science and history, if rightly understood, support the fact of God. This evidence is so strong that, as the Bible says: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God” (Psalm 14:1).

Most atheists, therefore, without any objective evidence on which to base their faith in “no God”, must resort finally to philosophical objections. And this problem of suffering is the greatest of these.

That is, they say, how can a God of love permit such things in His world as war, sickness, pain, and death, especially when their effects often are felt most keenly by those who are apparently innocent? Either He is not a God of love and is indifferent to human suffering, or else He is not a God of power and is therefore helpless to do anything about it. In either case, the Biblical God who is supposedly one of both absolute power and perfect love becomes an impossible anachronism. Or so they claim!

This is a real difficulty, but atheism is certainly not the answer, and neither is agnosticism. While there is much evil in the world, there is even more that is good. This is proved by the mere fact that people normally try to hang on to life as long as they can. Furthermore, everyone instinctively recognizes that “good” is a higher order of truth than “bad”.

We need also to recognize that our very minds were created by God. We can only use these minds to the extent that He allows, and it is, therefore, utterly presumptuous for us to use them to question Him and His motives.

“Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?” (Genesis 18:25).

“Shall the thing formed say to Him that formed it, why hast Thou made me thus?” (Romans 9:20).

We ourselves do not establish the standards of what is right. Only the Creator of all reality can do that. We need to settle it, in our minds and hearts, whether we understand it or not, that whatever God does is, by definition, right.

Having settled this by faith, we are then free to seek for ways in which we can profit spiritually from the sufferings in life, as well as the blessings. As we consider such matters, it is helpful to keep the following great truths continually in our minds.

There is really no such thing as the “innocent” suffering.

Since “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23), there is no one who has the right to freedom from God’s wrath on the basis of his own innocence.

As far as babies are concerned, and others who may be incompetent mentally to distinguish right and wrong, it is clear from both Scripture and universal experience that they are sinners by nature and thus will inevitably become sinners by choice as soon as they are able to do so.

The world is now under God’s Curse (Genesis 3:17) because of man’s rebellion against God’s Word.

This “bondage of corruption,” with the “whole world groaning and travailing together in pain” (Romans 8:21-22), is universal, affecting all men and women and children everywhere. God did not create the world this way, and one day will set all things right again. In that day, “God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain” (Revelation 21:4).

The Lord Jesus Christ, who was the only truly “innocent” and “righteous” man in all history, nevertheless has suffered more than anyone else who ever lived.

And this He did for us! “Christ died for our sins” (I Corinthians 15:3). He suffered and died, in order that ultimately He might deliver the world from the Curse, and that, even now, He can deliver from sin and its bondage anyone who will receive Him in faith as personal Lord and Savior. This great deliverance from the penalty of inherent sin, as well as of overt sins, very possibly also assures the salvation of those who have died before reaching an age of conscious choice of wrong over right.

With our full faith in God’s goodness and in Christ’s redemption, we can recognize that our present sufferings can be turned to His glory and our good.

The sufferings of unsaved men are often used by the Holy Spirit to cause them to realize their needs of salvation and to turn to Christ in repentance and faith. The sufferings of Christians should always be the means of developing a stronger dependence on God and a more Christ-like character, if they are properly “exercised thereby” (Hebrews 12:11).

Thus, God is loving and merciful, even when, “for the present,” He allows trials and sufferings to come in our lives.

“For we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are called according to His purpose” (Romans 8:28).

Here is an article from Harvard Students

www.hcs.harvard.edu/~acf/faq09.html

Want to read an article first hand on some one who has suffered for the past 40 years ? Joni Eareckson Tada wrote an article for Time Magazine

www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,2016484,00.html

www.freebiblestudyguides.org/bible-hope/why-does-god-allow-people-suffer.htm

www.thefamilyinternational.org/en/viewpoints/views-issues/21/

www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2005/09/23/not-connecting-it

www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/04/16/how-could-loving-god

I could go on literally all day with endless explanation from those who are qualified to give you the answers your looking for.. BUT in reality we all know its not answers your looking for. Its not answers you want, its a reason to hate and reject God for your not understanding him, or accepting something he has given to us freely. What more suffering was endured than God sending his only son to suffer and die for us all. Until a person opens their heart and listens to God then your never going to understand the answers given.

How did god get into this?
Let the attorney sharks get involved. It's the American way.
God, you stay out of it.

Geez, people have a lot of anger.

I said building codes, because if building codes were followed this kind of accident is impossible to happen. In this case, it's a simple GFCI which several people in this thread have already mentioned. I know the common person may not understand how they work, but a simple google search will educate yourself, they are not complex devices. In a nutshell they measure the current in both conductors. If more current is entering than leaving, it means the current is going somewhere else (ground) and it cuts the circuit which means no more power. This would work regardless on if there is wear and tear, the wires were chewed by animals, someone grab something, etc etc.

This has been part of the NEC since 1975 for outdoor areas.

"...girl vacationing with her family was electrocuted and died"

Electrocuted AND died? Dur. You can't be electrocuted and live. Electrocuted means killed by electricity.

More pathetic journalism.

You can live after being electrocuted!!!! I know two people personally that did!!!!!

Marmaduke 49, I cannot say anything except your post at 1.61 is awesome. Very well presented and so very on the mark. Stay blessed.

Marmaduke (post 1.57)

Your ignorance is showing. You obviously don't know the facts of the McD's case:

"

There is a lot of hype about the McDonalds' scalding coffee case. No one is in favor of frivolous cases of outlandish results; however, it is important to understand some points that were not reported in most of the stories about the case. McDonalds coffee was not only hot, it was scalding -- capable of almost instantaneous destruction of skin, flesh and muscle. Here's the whole story.

Stella Liebeck of Albuquerque, New Mexico, was in the passenger seat of her grandson's car when she was severely burned by McDonalds' coffee in February 1992. Liebeck, 79 at the time, ordered coffee that was served in a styrofoam cup at the drivethrough window of a local McDonalds.

After receiving the order, the grandson pulled his car forward and stopped momentarily so that Liebeck could add cream and sugar to her coffee. (Critics of civil justice, who have pounced on this case, often charge that Liebeck was driving the car or that the vehicle was in motion when she spilled the coffee; neither is true.) Liebeck placed the cup between her knees and attempted to remove the plastic lid from the cup. As she removed the lid, the entire contents of the cup spilled into her lap.

The sweatpants Liebeck was wearing absorbed the coffee and held it next to her skin. A vascular surgeon determined that Liebeck suffered full thickness burns (or third-degree burns) over 6 percent of her body, including her inner thighs, perineum, buttocks, and genital and groin areas. She was hospitalized for eight days, during which time she underwent skin grafting. Liebeck, who also underwent debridement treatments, sought to settle her claim for $20,000, but McDonalds refused.

During discovery, McDonalds produced documents showing more than 700 claims by people burned by its coffee between 1982 and 1992. Some claims involved third-degree burns substantially similar to Liebecks. This history documented McDonalds' knowledge about the extent and nature of this hazard.

McDonalds also said during discovery that, based on a consultants advice, it held its coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees fahrenheit to maintain optimum taste. He admitted that he had not evaluated the safety ramifications at this temperature. Other establishments sell coffee at substantially lower temperatures, and coffee served at home is generally 135 to 140 degrees.

Further, McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the company actively enforces a requirement that coffee be held in the pot at 185 degrees, plus or minus five degrees. He also testified that a burn hazard exists with any food substance served at 140 degrees or above, and that McDonalds coffee, at the temperature at which it was poured into styrofoam cups, was not fit for consumption because it would burn the mouth and throat. The quality assurance manager admitted that burns would occur, but testified that McDonalds had no intention of reducing the "holding temperature" of its coffee.

Plaintiffs' expert, a scholar in thermodynamics applied to human skin burns, testified that liquids, at 180 degrees, will cause a full thickness burn to human skin in two to seven seconds. Other testimony showed that as the temperature decreases toward 155 degrees, the extent of the burn relative to that temperature decreases exponentially. Thus, if Liebeck's spill had involved coffee at 155 degrees, the liquid would have cooled and given her time to avoid a serious burn.

McDonalds asserted that customers buy coffee on their way to work or home, intending to consume it there. However, the companys own research showed that customers intend to consume the coffee immediately while driving.

McDonalds also argued that consumers know coffee is hot and that its customers want it that way. The company admitted its customers were unaware that they could suffer thirddegree burns from the coffee and that a statement on the side of the cup was not a "warning" but a "reminder" since the location of the writing would not warn customers of the hazard.

The jury awarded Liebeck $200,000 in compensatory damages. This amount was reduced to $160,000 because the jury found Liebeck 20 percent at fault in the spill. The jury also awarded Liebeck $2.7 million in punitive damages, which equals about two days of McDonalds' coffee sales.

Post-verdict investigation found that the temperature of coffee at the local Albuquerque McDonalds had dropped to 158 degrees fahrenheit.

The trial court subsequently reduced the punitive award to $480,000 -- or three times compensatory damages -- even though the judge called McDonalds' conduct reckless, callous and willful.

No one will ever know the final ending to this case.

The parties eventually entered into a secret settlement which has never been revealed to the public, despite the fact that this was a public case, litigated in public and subjected to extensive media reporting. Such secret settlements, after public trials, should not be condoned.
-----
excerpted from ATLA fact sheet. © 1995, 1996 by Consumer Attorneys of California

Now how in the world did politics get involved here? Im sure there will be as investigation done, and im also hoping that this business here helps the family with these expenses they will have to bury there child....

That's all you think they a liable for? Expenses to bury the child? That's is the most outrageous thing I've ever read on Newsvine! Criminal negligence is the minimum...those responsible serving jail time and losing every cent would be something approaching reasonable...

I swear some of you become sicker every day...

How is it criminal Caligula did someone push the child in no.....she fell in it was an unfortunate accident...Just how negligent we dont know yet....if that makes me a sick person then im as sick as a dog, because i dont look at everything with dollars in my eyes....Like some people do.....There could be more to it but we must hold our horses and wait them to examine it closer...

Yes if it was done on purpose....Ive been called many things in my life but conservative thats a first....If someone was walking on your property and tripped on a crack in your sidewalk and suffered death from a head trauma you ya think we should come over to you and arrest you for criminal negligence. I wouldnt think so because it was an unfortunate accident......To many people are sue happy now a days........

Renne...it does not have to be done "on purpose" to be criminally negligent...

Reanderson...And yes, if you knew about the crack and you did nothing about it...and someone tripped and died then YES, you are criminally negligent and should be held accountable. Accountability and responsibility...wow, what truly outrageous concepts!

Man there are some dullards on this site...

Caligula - How is it outrageous? I know it's hard to believe, but ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN.

What if "those responsible" is a rat...who chewed the wire that connects to that pond 1 hr before this happened?

im sorry caligula, chasing dollar signs isnt going to bring this child back OR alieve their suffering...

If you want to put them out of business, fine...

If that was my child, id have a hard time spending any of that money. It would feel like you traded the life of your child for a winning lottery ticket...

I swear, that is about as sick as it gets.

Caligula - so people dont have a responsibility to look where the F they are walking?

here's hoping someone trips on a loose step at your house and hurts themselves, and then sues you into oblivion. it's what you think is reasonable, so i'll pray to GOD you get to experience it.

*edited to add

we arent dullards, we just understand that accidents happen...and when they do, there's no reason get money hungry over it.

perhaps, you simply like money over humanity better? I dont know...

caligula

Man there are some dullards on this site..

Yes, we all see you.

WOW, I guess you are all against having lights in a swimming pool?

It's amazing how some people will take the tragedy of a child losing her life and her parents suffering and turn it into a soapbox about politics. There's a time and a place for it and this is not it. My sincere condolences and prayers for her family, I can't even imagine what it'd be like to lose my little girl over something like this, and on what should have been a happy day.

If it was a problem with faulty wiring or something that was the put put's fault, then yes I believe the family should be compensated, however if it was no fault and just a random horrible thing then I don't believe they would be held responsible. Sometimes truly horrible things happen through no fault of anyone. Such a tragedy.

"Hypocrites all. Civil society is sick of you and your ilk."

"I swear some of you become sicker every day..."

"Man there are some dullards on this site..."

And you wonder why no one listens to you. Without all the facts you jump on a one wheel bandwagon. I guess it must be nice and cosy in that cave of yours. Don't step outside, I don't want you suing everyone every time you trip on your shoe laces.

Something Caligula didn't consider...supposing it was the electrician's fault who originally did the wiring for the contractor that built the course for the resort? And the resort didn't know anything was wrong with it until this poor little girl became the first unfortunate victim? You would rush to blame someone completely innocent as criminally liable. See what happens when you leap before you look? Think first!

What good will all these heartfelt prayers do for the family now? Better to DO things beforehand that can actually prevent these tragedies than to pray afterward, which in my opinion is basically worthless.

My condolences to the family and wish a speedy recovery to the injured person trying to save the little girl.

Caligula is a troll... Ignore the venomous comments and "it" usually goes away....

Okay Scottnrg, we get it; you don't believe in God. You have spammed that out here enough. It amazes me how much people will harp about something they don't believe in.

News flash... I do not believe in Martians, Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster or the Bogey Man. Therefore I do not talk about them. I do not respond to those who believe in aliens or any of the other creatures I mentioned. If someone believes in Big Foot I am not going to be the one who convinces them they are wrong.

I believe there is a god. In fact I believe in one God, Yahweh. I believe His Son incarnate came to Earth, died at the hands of oppressors like you and was buried. I believe He was ressurrected and is alive and very much in control today. Now if you wish to waste your time trying to convince me otherwise, go ahead; it is your time wasted, not mine.

Finally, remember this; if you sit on a railroad track and insist you do not believe in the train that is headed your way because the headlight is out and you cannot see it, that does not mean you are not going to go splat when that "imaginary" train hits you.

for those who are NOT qualified electricians..... when a proper "Earth-Ground" is installed on either a pond or a pool or any body of water, there will be NO ELECTROCUTION HAZARD for anyone who comes into contact with the water. Every pool installer knows about this as well as "most" apartment complex maintenance personnel and any qualified Hotel/Motel Maintenance personnel. That said, there are no standardized requirements when a Company hires a Maintenance person , so ultimately it reverts to the "Resorts' own Liability Insurance Carrier. There is a major difference between "Qualified" and "Minimum Wage" and we will have to see which this ends up being.... but I have my suspicions based of the fact that it happened at all.

There is nothing criminal here, but neither is it an accident either. There is negligence. It was either constructed improperly or not maintained properly. Further, this was a commercial establishment, which creates a higher duty of care to maintain safe premises. Prima facie, if it had been built properly and maintained, she would not have been electrocuted. On a wrongful death, damages will arise to more than burial costs, as they should. While money can never fully restore this family, it is the only measurement of recompense available; thus, there will be money damages.

When you go to a place of commerce, you have every right to expect the land owner will use care in maintaining a safe premises. The dangerous condition was a part of the premises and under the control of the landowner. The landowner failed in the duty of care. No, all the facts are not in, but this is a rare case where, on it's face, there is negligence.

@Fred4Congress ... I actually do believe in God. I simply do not think that praying for people after the tragedy does any good. I believe that if people devoted half as much forethought and action beforehand as they do to prayer as an afterthought we would be better off.

Also @Fredforcongress, your analogy makes no sense. Whether or not the train has a headlight it is still real? Of course it is. Are you saying that just because you can't see something does not make it not real? I would tend to agree with you, but there is a bit more proof for the evidence of the train...just saying.

This accident is terrible, our thoughts and prayers are with the family. Now, this is the largest time share in the world and the owners will not disappear, they will do the right thing. There are 2 separate courses at this location and they are generally run by college students from all over the country and the world. This is outdoors and the number of animals that can chew a wire is endless, Yes I believe there will be no criminal suit at all, only a financial if the two families do not agree on money for funeral expenses and loss of life. I have played those courses the last 4 years and they seem to be kept up really nice as is the rest of the resort. Orange Lake will do the right thing, they have to many owners and a reputation to withold. Once again our prayers for the little girl and family.

You spout God into a public forum, you will be bringing ridicule upon yourself. It's arrogant and ignorant of you to be all up in arms about it. You brought God into this discussion. Reap the consequences. How would you like it if devil worshippers started pushing the devil on here? You wouldn't like that would you? Think. It only hurts for a minute then it kind of becomes natural.

Scottnrg~ My heartfelt prayers are to the people who lost a loved one in this article, I may not be able to actually 'do' anything for them but they are in my thoughts. If that's a waste of time then it's my waste of time.

I simply do not think that praying for people after the tragedydoes any good.

Are you suggesting that I pray BEFORE a tragedy? Guessin' I'd have to be a bit psychic then. No disrespect intended but unless I pray for you during your tragedy you don't really get to tell me if it's wasted or not. Sometimes people in mourning take comfort in knowing there are others who care and are thinking about them. How exactly would any action on my part have saved a little girl of whom I have no contact with nor any relation to? You don't have to answer that. Tragedy happens all of the time and sometimes it's completely unforeseeable, after that what really matters is how you deal with what's been dealt.

dissapointed~ Stating one wishes to send a prayer for a family isn't "spouting God" (by saying that it seems you are the one who is up in arms about it), it's offering comfort. If a person who wishes to offer comfort to this family by praying to the Spaghetti God then fine, it's no skin off my back and at least they are trying to offer best wishes to a family whose pain is more important then your ability to ridicule and desire to condescend others because of their beliefs.

Did I say "dullards"...I'm sorry, I meant terribly ignorant!!!!

The definition of criminal negligence is as follows: Criminal negligence is a misfeasance or nonfeasance where the fault lies in the failure to foresee and so allow otherwise avoidable dangers to manifest.

I rest my case. Now you haters can all kiss my correct ass! Just because you spout idiotic positions online, doesn't make you right. But, the law, and thousands of cases establishing legal precedent make me right and the terribly ignorant WRONG.

Have a lovely day! And try reading and getting a proper education...

Yes, that's the American way.

Because it is like swimming pool lights. It looks nice in the evening and it's supposed to be safe.

and some have fountains, which require pumps, which...you guessed it, require electricity.

have you NEVER been to a mini golf course???

If you have even been severely shocked, you would realize that when the girl reached into the water she would have gotten "disabled" immediately and that caused her to fall into the "pond". Most of these ponds are not deep in Mini-Golf courses.... especially in Alligator country. A fence around a couple foot deep pond is not needed. Why would a fence be needed for a shallow pond when every housing developement has a 8 to 12 foot deep retention pond that does not need one?

ronnie

There should have been a sign or some warning

Do they put signs next to swimming pools, "WARNING- POLL HAS LIGHTS IN IT? LIGHTS ARE POWERED BY ELECTRICITY'?

ops, POOL not poll

How sad that a young girl died for lack of a properly installed and regularly tested Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. Electric devices and water are a dangerous combination. There is a reason that knowledgeable people strongly recommend that a licensed electrician install and maintain electric devices and wiring in public places.

While there is a slight possibility that the equipment was all proper and had unexpected damage or failure, it is much more likely that improper type (or incorrectly installed) equipment will be found during the investigation.

Hopefully the investigation and publicity of this terrible accident will lead to discovery and correction of dangerous conditions in other public places. Maybe a few people will have GFCIs retrofitted in their homes on all electric devices and outlets outdoors, in basements, garages, bathrooms, kitchens, around aquariums/fountains etc. Replacement outlets are not expensive.

Were you in on the construction Mailman8? Do you know something we don't after reading the article? You must be an electrical expert and a clairvoyant to be able to say what you did with such certainty.

It's not the voltage that kills you, it's the amperage and being grounded. You can get killed by a 12 volt car battery if enough amps are being draw through the wire. Ever notice birds on a power-line? The voltage is orders of magnitude more than a standard 110 volt line, yet it doesn't affect the birds, because they are not grounded. And for those speculating on poor wiring with the lights, most landscape (ground) lighting is 12-volt or less. That's why you don't have to encase the wires in conduit.

I'm with TVAR here though, probably a short in a pump, though without a picture of the pond, very hard to tell.

ricewind

Yes it had a pump in the middle, or something that looked like a pump. It was a shallow pond with a fountain in the middle of one end. Watch this video from the local news:

http://www.wftv.com/videos/news/11-year-old-dies-after-mini-golf/vcX4G/

This was not some little putt-putt place on the side of the road. It was a huge resort complex.

http://hotelplusportal.com/HolidayInnClubVacationsORLANDO-ORANGELAKERESORT-in-Kissimmee?source=Bing+orange+lake+resort

"It's the volts that thrill, the amps that kill."

I got a 50,000 volt "thrill" once and I'll never forget what it felt like. I was certain I would die.

I have always believed, since childhood when a schoolmate died, that losing a child must be the worst pain possible. I lost a 13 year old niece some time ago but still can't imagine the grief.

Lawyers, negligence, parents, politics, god....none of that matters right now, an innocent child has died.

They don't want no govmit interference. Let the market work it out.

As I understand it, the "non-regulation" point you were mentioning and were hoping to try to convince people to follow your thinking was for the elimination of the journeyman credential in residential electical work. NOT for commercial property electrical work.

And as such - IT WAS NOT an issue for this tragedy.

No matter - How that issue somehow related to this tragedy - Florida has 14 million plus residents and many millions of more visitors working around and playing around all kinds of water events and pools that include electrical equipment in them each and every day. And yet, Florida has more deaths from hurricanes, lightening strikes, car accidents, rip tide currents and shark attackes than electrocution from a mini pool.

We have too much regulations.

I was once married to a journeyman electrician but would not have guraranteed the credibility of his work. Most businesses in Florida, especially those in the hospitality/tourist industry are required to maintain liability insurance and in order to obtain and keep that liaility insurance, they are required to hire licensed and bonded contractors and maintenance people. Someone who will absorb the cost of errors if applicable. Journeyman trade workers have nothing to do with the required knowledge to obtain certification. It is the union labor force that includes them all and that is what you are referring to.

Actually “Journeyman” is the name of the license you just stated the businesses were required to hire. Surprised you didn’t know that being married to an electrician.

The years of experience required to qualify to be able to take the eight hour test and of course pass it, tend to assure a minimum level of knowledge.

Sorry you don’t like your ex, or unions, but the idea is to prevent the deaths, not “absorb the cost of the errors”.

On this one I chose not to read not even one post. Why in the heck would any public activity in which anyone would chose to retrieve a lost item fill that area with electricity? I took my daughter to play putt putt on every vacation and would have never even thought about her sticking her hand into any water to retrieve a lost ball. - why would I. Our children and adults have the right to play and be safe. The owner's are at fault - what where they thinking? Close them down and keep them closed and may all the others who followed their path "fix" their problems concerning safety! Children or adults playing putt putt shouldn't have to worry about being "KILLED."

yes, because that solves everything.

Yes accidents happen.

Accidents like this are not accidents.

I'm willing to bet it was a result of wires not being secured properly etc. I can't tell you how many "electricians" I've met that think that electric tape is "good enough" instead of using the proper connectors on hot wires.

How sad for the family.

As far as the lawsuit goes, if something like this happened to my little girl it would be a long long time before a round of putt putt was ever played there again if ever...

This is truly a sad story. It could happen to anyone,anytime. I know that we are all armchair analyzing here,but I wonder if whatever electrocuted her was properly grounded and connected to a GFCI? Usually,anything installed outdoors or near water should have one. If it was,why didn't it work? That might have saved her. I guess an investigation will tell. Condolences to the family.

rkaralius,

Just how could the rainstorms of Debby caused a girl to drown in a pond that she was wading through, and injure an adult trying to help her in this POND?

she didn't drown, knucklehead. the article was only a couple paragraphs long - read it!

Kissimmee is right next to Orlando, far inland. There was no serious flooding there.

Hey timmy - change your name to timmy the prick

airrika should stick to video. Obviously, reading isn't her thing.

Hey timmy - change your name to timmy the prick

so you can eat me? no thanks.