Not necessarily anything bad about his commander. If he's having good old fashioned psychological problems, be it from combat, family, friends, any issue possible, and he's all of a sudden in a court martial situation over something he didn't do (or something he did that seems trivial to him), he could very well take his anger out on the system he feels persecuted by. The Lt Colonel would be one of the most obvious links to that system for him.

People having problems in life can hurt those around them, even those that haven't done anything to deserve it. So please don't sling accusations at the Lt Colonel unless something else comes to light.

Obviously there's more than a tool box involved, but that doesn't mean the target has to be the cause.

I can sling all the accusations i want....in the direction of whom I want...my computer, my opinion....

Besides it said that the two had worked together in Afghanistan....so inductive reasoning would suggest (initialy) that he lashed out at the commnader for a reason....

My opinion....

his commander would have been the person in charge to recommend a court martial hearing.

Psychological problems are a great deal more common than people thing. Right now the suicide rate among active duty service members is significantly higher than combat deaths in Afghanistan. Sometimes this sort of attack is called "suicide by cop" in the civilian world.

While the military is doing a tiny bit better and the VS is doing some better, the rates of undiagnosed Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) are through the roof. (And before you rank on me for saying rates of "undiagnosed" disorders, the numbers are arrived at by selecting random groups of servicemen, examining them thoroughly, they protracting the rates to the full military.)

While there was some degree of TBI in Vietnam and very significant PTSD, the numbers of IEDs and rollovers from overarmored vehicles have caused huge numbers of TBI among Iraq and Afghanistan vets and the PTSD rates for current service members is already over 10 times that of Vietnam, mostly because of numerous deployments.

And that doesn't even look at divorce rates, and spousal abuse, and drunk driving arrests, and other indicators that our military is over-deployed and over-taxed and just plain worn out mentally and physically.

People die over far less everyday. The Army doesn't consistently draw the brightest bulbs.

Okay, a few facts about Courts Martials for those who never were in JAG. First, the Battalion Commander would NOT have been in charge of the soldier's Courts Martial. Once it is referred for JAG for Courts Martial, it is entirely JAG's baby. The command does have some leeway AFTER sentencing in reducing the sentence, but they do not have anything to do with the process other than providing evidence.

Second, don't assume that this guy had PTSD. I've seen lots of people in the military shoot other people who never went into battle. Moreover, not everyone who has seen combat ends up with PTSD. The fact that they guy ws in for 8 years and was still only an E4 tells me that he was having issues long before this. Promotions aren't that hard to come by unless you are a screw-up. Most people who do 5 or 6 years make it to E5.

@frankie-1003, it doesn't mean that something happened to the Soldier while deployed. He could very well be pissed off that this Man he protected while deployed, is now about to help in ending his career. He couldn't understand that the BC was only doing his job, and he just maybe didn't want to get kicked out of the Army. Many people who have never lived a Military life, would not understand what leaders go through with Soldiers. If you screw up, no matter how many times you've deployed, you have to suffer the consequences of your actions, and some Soldiers just don't understand that. They feel that since they serve this country, they should be given a pass for their misconducts, and that just isn't the case. The Army has to uphold a certain degree of Professionalism, but unfortunately, we have some people that can't grasp that concept...Professionalism.

Chris, one big difference between today and Vietnam is the number of people who survive TBI. In the 60s and 70s, most people with traumatic brain injuries died, while today, most survive.

There are also issues with exactly what constitutes traumatic stress. Combat is not the only thing that appears to cause PTSD. Abused spouses, people who have witnessed violent crimes, and people who have lost loved ones in a violent accident, have all been diagnosed with PTSD. PTSD has become a catchall term that covers a very wide variety of problems. Saying someone has PTSD is similar to saying someone has cancer. There are lots of different types of cancer, each with it's own odds of survival and each with it's own treatments.

PTSD may or may not have played a part in what happened. The fact that this guy was still and E4 after 8 years says something, as does the fact that he had been recommended for courts martial. As this guy's battalion commander, the LTC would have played a significant roll in the courts martial and any other legal actions (Art. 15), that this guy may have been subjected to.

Bottom line, we're going to have to wait until this all plays out to try to figure out the motives and causes here. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), it sounds like the specialist won't survive his wounds. Even without him, there will still have a very thorough investigation of the incident.

@differnet, My guess is the article is off from the title. He is in the military, he shot some one, after this he would not be discharged and allowed to go free. According to the article he was up for a Special Courts Martial. Now he has this hanging over his head. How does this play out in JAG?

he was a specialist for 8 years?

Cheetah, making a statement like "The Army doesn't consistently draw the brightest bulbs." would suggest you never served and you have, certainly, not tried to enlist recently.

Saying, "the Vine doesn't consistently draw the brightest bulbs" would be far more accurate, based on the number of people who, with no research or background, will jump in with poorly thought out comments on subjects with which they possess no expertise.

How does a man facing court martial get hold of a loaded pistol?

@differnet...yeah, but the Bn Cdr would still make a recommendation as to whether or not the Soldier was going to get court-martialed. Maybe the Bn Cdr had told the Soldier he would take care of him, and then when he recommended court-martial the Soldier felt betrayed.

If he was in line for a court martial then everyone knew what this guy was about. When someone gets that level of UCMJ they have it coming and they had many chances before that to fix themselves. The court martial was likely the culmination of a list of trouble this guy had been in. Most will normally not surface because that is how UCMJ works.

If you make a mistake it is addressed at the first level of supervision and your given guidance and a plan to get back on track. Alot of those records are (by policy) not allowed to follow you...a clean slate can be had if you want to (make the personal choice) stop being stupid!

On the other hand, if you continue to be a trouble maker and break rules and laws and steal stuff you will get hammered. Punishments can include being reduced in rank, forfiture of pay, confinement in a correctional facility and dishonourable discharge with no veteran benefits.

The guy was most likely "career specialist". If he hadn't been promoted beyond Specialist, E-4, in eight years he was a dead ender and when he didn't make the next rank he would get kicked out at about the 12 year mark. Probably just riding out his contract for a steady paycheck and benefits.

That type of personality blames everyone else for their problems and can't accept they have to change to improve their future. The "security detail" bit....probaly expected the Lt Col to cover for him because he protected him.

Sociopathic behavior...he did his job as a security dude so he expects a favor when he gets caught stealing something.

He was probably trying to pop his own cork but when he got tackled it threw his aim off.

I feel sorry for him because I've seen too many kids that get chance after chance after chance to help themselves...before and after war...and just throw it away. As for the gun...anyone that wants to have and use a gun for that type of act can get one...legally or illegally.

My condolances to the Lt Col's family.

No, no, no. The shooter was a Islamic Brotherhood terrorist who infiltrated the U.S. Army. Just ask any anti-Islam Terrorist Conspiracy nut. After all, they're clairvoyant and "know" when a killer is an Islamic Brotherhood terrorist!

They sure were prophesying about it yesterday..........

Nungman

How does a man facing court martial get hold of a loaded pistol?

How does any person get hold of a loaded pistol -- especially when they happen to be a convicted felon who has been legally barred from ever having in their possession ANY type of firearm? Think about for a while.

cheetah-822547

People die over far less everyday. The Army doesn't consistently draw the brightest bulbs.

Are you saying that this is nothing to get excited about -- because it just is not all that rare and/or the reason for the shooting is not actually trivial? How nice of you to show that you are not amongst the brightest bulbs.........

Agnon...are you saying this soldier was a convicted felon? If not, then that comment makes no sense.

If he was in trouble like the article suggests, why was he even around?

I'll be clearer for the imperceptive, those who love to add words, thoughts, and take offense where none was implied nor intended. The Army enlists some lowlife idiots. It is believable that this is an entire incident form cause to effect.

Cheeta, the military is a cross section of our society but, you might be surprised just how little of the lower part of that cross section gets in. I spent 35 years in the Navy. I knew enlisted people with with PhDs. Almost all of the officers had, at least, a bachelor's degree, with the only exceptions being some limited duty officers (LDO) and some warrant officers. Quite a few of the senior enlisted and a number of the junior enlisted had or were pursuing some sort of college degree.

Since the 1980s, the military has pushed education. They realized that if they wanted a force that could continue to adapt to the needs and pressures of rapidly changing technology, the force had to be educated. Almost every base/post/station has an education office. Most installations have extensions from local colleges and universities. When I was aboard ship, we carried several college level instructors every time we deployed. Education is encouraged to the point it is part of, almost, everyone's annual evaluation. Additionally, it plays a huge part in advancement.

The days of illiterates and criminals getting into the military are gone. Things are moving too fast, changing too rapidly, to have to deal with someone who can't think. If you don't believe me, call a recruiter; tell them you have a GED and want to join and ask them how long it will take to get you in. Even if you have an ASVAB score in the 90s, the odds are against you.

Obviously, this guy turned out to be a "lowlife." Did he start out that way? Was he an ongoing problem or was it something that happened fairly recently. Could this have something to do with PTSD? Why is he still and E4? Was he busted or just never advanced?

Your comments, "The Army doesn't consistently draw the brightest bulbs." and "The Army enlists some lowlife idiots." both suggest that there is something lacking in the Army's enlistment process, that allows these problems into the service. Technically, you are correct but, it is not just an Army problem. Those statement could be applied to anyplace that hires anyone. I would imagine, that unless you work for yourself, you, also, work with some "lowlifes." If you hire people, I can, almost, guarantee you have hired some "lowlifes" yourself. The difference, in most cases, is the military has a pretty good (not perfect) screening process. You might be surprised just how many people who try to enlist, are not accepted. Did you know they won't let you in if you have too many traffic tickets?

6dogs, sorry for the delay getting back here on this topic. Okay, he was under Courts Martial for theft. Now, he has a murder charge. Two seperate issues. Most likely, the two charges will be combined to one trial. You know, if he had left it at the theft charges and he had served honorably, especially with a combat deployment, he might have been allowed to be discharged with a less-than-honorable discharge. His whole service record would have been taken into account during the sentencing phase. Any commander who wanted to speak on his behalf at that point could have done so and that would can have a huge change on the sentence (this is all assuming he was found guilty).

I know of a particularily heinous murder that was reduced from life to 30 years based upon the circumstances of the murder and the service record of the soldier. He was a guilty as they come (more than 40 witnesses saw the murder), but sentencing is about 2 things - good military discipline and looking at the person as an entirity. I've also seen dirt-bags get the maximum penalty.

Save the ammo, let him bleed out.

Wow, some extremely cold-hearted idiots here. How about if one of your own family is accused of killing someone? You still going to say "let them die"?

I'm not saying the shooter isn't to blame, but he obviously has some mental health issues. And, as usual, no one takes mental health seriously until something like this happens.

Agnon is correct...don't be so cruel.

Depends on the MOS. Some promotion points are high and it takes a while. That or he's a dirtbag who never went to the board or PLDC the Warrior Leader Course. Probably the latter.

Most soldiers can make E-4 within 2 years-3 tops, regardless of the MOS. It sounds more likely that he has made rank at least once or more, and been busted down for other infractions. I would think that he would have been discharged with cause if was only an E-4 with 8yrs in. Regardless for his reasons, 1 guy is dead and the shooter sounds like he will soon be as well. RIP and condolences to all of the affected family members.

Roadhead- Your comment sounds about right. My husband knew quite a few guys like that in his Battery while he was in the Army.

Come on Cappy.... 8 years and still an E4?!?! Get real. The guy was a screw up long before this.

Not at all a big deal to being an E4 at 8 years - some MOS can easily take 10 years to make SGT/E5 and16-17 to make SSG/E6. I met a very sharp E5 71L once who had been on the E6 list pending promotion for longer than I had been an NCO, and had been an NCO longer than I had been on active duty - and at the time I was an E6 and less than a year later was on the E7 list. Just depends on the circumstances.

I have to agree with above posts. At Eight years he should have been looking at or been an E-6. Traditionally it is not unusual to make E-5 at 4 to 5 years. At least not in the Army.

I got out some time ago, but 92M and 15U to name two were hard MOSs to get promoted in. They would keep the points at 799 and drop them to 760 every but so often when they were running low on E5s. This guy is obviously a slug, but I wouldn't necessarily criticize someone for being in the Army for 8 years and still being an E5 unless I knew his MOS.

Mr...I don't know about you, but I could NEVER do what these men and women do in the service, so try not to be so judgemental. Unless you have been ther, you don't know why he did or didn't do.

You need to support these people instead of mocking them.

Panther, I made Sgt./E-5 in 4 years and I wasn't some John Rambo type, I just kept my mouth shut and did my job. This "soldier" was a scumbag, traitor, and murderer and I will give him NO RESPECT. I will mock dumbazzes like this clown with my dying breath. Just because someone puts on a uniform, it doesn't automatically make them a hero, or even a good person. It just makes him a soldier, sailor, or marine. Occasionally, a few of them turn out to be rapists, murderers, or war criminals. Even in the USA.

what I menat was, people judged him because of his job and why he didn't have a better one...there is no reason to kill anyone like he did.

And I thank YOU for your service...

I bet you would be a good soldier, too. (If you would just stop being kind to people - oh, and if you would stop thinking so much). ;)

You are welcome. Service to the US is a multi-generational obligation that my family fulfills. It began with my mother's great-grandfather as a Vermont Yankee during the Civil War and continues today with one of my nephews as a Marine in Afghanistan. We have proudly represented the country in every major conflict during that time in every branch of the service. It's like a disease to us.

1. Recruiters lie. They are like car sales people. You must completely CYA when dealing with recruiters.

(In 1979, my recruiter told me I must fly back to South Carolina at my expense to sign the final paperwork. He could have forwarded the final paperwork to a recruiting office in my hometown of Denver. Recruiters will never change.)

2. Why are you sticking your nose into your son's business? He's over 18. Let him handle his own affairs like a man.

You got into arguments with the sergeant? That was your son's problem right there, he never left his parents apron strings.

PS, I am retired Army and never in my retired career delt with parents other than if their son or daughter had been hurt (and they needed to be notified) or the soldier was not calling home (they do that). I NEVER, EVER had a parent play helicopter parent over discipline. The sergeant wasn't your son's problem YOU ARE!!!!!!

recruiter told my brother that his hernia would be repaird before boot

they sent him straight to boot at which time it strangled (or whatever it does to double you over and put you in the hospital)

he sat in the hospital for almost two months (without any treatment) before they told him they were going to prosecute for false information or lack of disclosure or some other lame thing.

he cut a deal - medical discharge instead of jail......

Recruiters have quota's and are not held repsonsible for any 'promises' - get it in writing and keep it handy in case the paper is missing in the bathroom.....

Curious, but My Recruiter did not lie to me. No need to. Many aspects of the military are not so wonderful, but that usually happens when the politics get involved. There has to be somthing more to this incident and maybe those details are none of our business, and none of the press's affair either. Prayers to the survivors and fmaily of the Lt. Colonel.

ALiberal - You are not a person I would like to have in my neighborhood. Sorry for the shooter? I hope your son got an OTH discharge.

and yes----it was the marines.....

To A Liberal, while I do not condone taking away or denying a contractually agreed upon bonus there are ways to deal with any problem in the Army. You have to know where to start and confronting the individual sometimes is not the best solution. You might and should have gone over his head (your sons commander) to deal with an issue and express your concern. Second, you probably made you kid’s life hell by getting involved. He joined the army let him deal with it. No wonder he could not handle the situation with you holding his hand the whole way. Also the stress and environment in basic training is designed to inoculate individuals to help them deal with similar situations when at war. My heart goes out to all involved but especially the BC who made the sacrifice so individuals like you could cry about you’re son and how he got a crappy deal and you could not hold his hand through life. Also the people in the military do not care about your respect; they do their job for something you will never understand because you were only a military brat and not in the military. Enjoy your freedom.

To A Liberal, while I do not condone taking away or denying a contractually agreed upon bonus there are ways to deal with any problem in the Army. You have to know where to start and confronting the individual sometimes is not the best solution. You might and should have gone over his head (your sons commander) to deal with an issue and express your concern. Second, you probably made you kid’s life hell by getting involved. He joined the army let him deal with it. No wonder he could not handle the situation with you holding his hand the whole way. Also the stress and environment in basic training is designed to inoculate individuals to help them deal with similar situations when at war. My heart goes out to all involved but especially the BC who made the sacrifice so individuals like you could cry about you’re son and how he got a crappy deal and you could not hold his hand through life. Also the people in the military do not care about your respect; they do their job for something you will never understand because you were only a military brat and not in the military. Enjoy your freedom.

I don't understand why you were arguing with your sons' sergeant and his commander? He had obviously left home to become a man. So why did you or him expect his leaders to pamper him in the army? What is so difficult to understand that sometimes you have to bend a little to your situation? I find it more appalling that you went through some sort of a process arguing with the army over a sign up bonus, and that your son vaginaed out-- taking a discharge. Lied to, bullied, or beaten your son should have had the testicles to finish his enlistment and you should have let him.

@A liberal,

Well, I went through basic training back in the days when he first indication you were doing something wrong was when you were hit with a swagger stick. The routine in basic training is far less harsh these days, but it still has the same basic function. The military is not a democracxy. You do not get to choose what you want to do and what you don't want to do or who you will respect and follow as leaders and who you will not. The military is not about discipline. It is about self-discipline and training so ingrained that you don't have to think about what you are doing. If you can't "get with the program" they really don't want you.

But, for God's sake, I could never imaging what kind of mother would be at basic arguing with my drill sergeant. What a harpy.

A Liberal - I hope your son enlisted for aviation branch. With a helicopter mom like you, he's been livin' that life for a while.

I really thought you were kidding til I figured out you're a diehard stoner.

Overly Sensitive Military Mom aka A Liberal, stay out of your sons business. You made the situation 100 times worse than it normally would have been.

Of course recruiters lie. Nothing in life is all rainbows and unicorns, especially not the military. Cut the umbilical cord already and get your sons testicles out of your purse, he'll need them one day.

He was arguing with the military on behalf of his son because unlike most of you unconcerned Parents in here (and I only hope none of you become parents), out child is and will always be our child!!! We love and protect them for our entire lives. I guess most of you plan on raising your little monsters then unleashing them into the World to fend for themselves. What wonderful Parents you will all make. No wonder we have so much crime today!!!

So...your son joins the Army. Did you expect him to be coddled? The sergeants who were "mistreating" you son weren't actually mistreating him. Believe it or not, but sergeants are trained to treat troops like that. Why? Because they are soldiers. Soldiers need to be tough enough to handle any and all situations they are put in without "running home to mommy". You don't specifically say how the sergeants were mistreating your son. If it was yelling and making them do scut work, that's normal. (physical abuse is different, and if they were physically abusing your son, I retract everything and sympathize)

Sergeants have one of the toughest jobs in any service. We are in charge of the troops well being. Going into combat, it was my responsibility as the sergeant to ensure the marines under me came back in one piece. The officers handle the tactics, the sergeants handle the troops.

I yelled at my share of troops. But I yelled because I cared. If I saw a Marine screw up, you can bet your sweet bippy I came down on him like the fist of God. Why? Because in combat, a screw up by one troop may get 10 troops killed.

Being in the service isn't a game. It is a dangerous job and people die daily, even when there are no wars going on. Even the training can be deadly. That's why sergeants yell at troops. That's why sergeants "mistreat" them. We do it to keep them alive.

I'm sorry your sons recruiter lied about the enlistment bonus. But that was the recruiter, not the Army.

Ottermann GySgt USMC (ret)

Starfox, please go hug a tree or save a dandelion because it can't have its feelings hurt for being what nature intended.

Our service members are held to a strict level of readiness. Like ottermann said, if one guy screws up, he can get the rest of his platoon seriously injured or killed.

Military service is not for the weak minded or weak bodied, I know that's hard to understand in a world that says everyone is equal and everyone deserves a medal.

@Starfox and ALiberal....Really???? You couldn't let go of your kids hand for just a while so they could go out and make a life of their own? Your son/daughter will never figure out how to deal with military (or any other kind) life if you're right behind them, giving them a little push, boohoo to the sargeant. Your kids are the ones I wouldn't want next to, behind or anywhere near me when the @!$%#& (your words, or lack thereof) hits the fan. In boot camp, your DI or whatever they use now, IS your kids mom and dad, but in a tougher way, in a way you'll never understand. Maybe that's why your kid will never make it in the military.

Bonuses are written in the contract.... they don't come and go. If your contract says you get a bonus, you get it - but bonuses are generally not payable until the successful completion of training and award of the MOS. From what little info you provided, your son may have gotten past Basic but did not successfully negotiate either AIT or learning to read a contract.

@A LIBERAL;

Basic Training, known as "bootcamp", and Active Duty are NOT the place for gentle treatment all the time. In case you are somehow unaware of it, that "abuse" is called MILITARY DISCIPLINE. If your son was not able to take the "abuse" in bootcamp or Active Duty -- what the hell makes you or him think that he would be able to survive the HELL of actual combat?

I am a veteran of the USAF, not a "military brat", so don't even try to tell me I have no idea what I'm talking about. Oh, and I'm a 'liberal", as well -- but I understand that coddling a soldier just because she/he doesn't want to be "abused" is a sure path to getting that soldier, and likely every other soldier in his/her unit along with them, KILLED in combat.

JimO-2263992

ALiberal - You are not a person I would like to have in my neighborhood. Sorry for the shooter? I hope your son got an OTH discharge.

So you base your hatred of a person on whether they show compassion for someone who has obviously gone through a rough time in their life? Gosh, I do hope that YOU never have to go through anything like that.

ottermann, first, thanx for your service and secondly thanx for your comment here.

my oldest 19 in right now in the corp spent time as you obviously did, making marines. i couldn't be prouder of him for making men out of boys. it truly is a shame that many have no idea as to how to keep soldiers alive when they have to enter a battle zone. if they cannot act as a weapon together, their brothers in arms die.

thanx again for the work you did in breaking them down to the point that they could be built into the team that could bring fighting men home alive.

semper fi ottermann

agnon, good comment in #6.19

To all of you who are or were in the armed forces...I appreciate everything you do(did) for me.

Thank you!

ALiberal...um...I don't understand how you can embarrass your son by being there and jumping those in charge like that. I managed a book store over Christmas in a college town. These kids would hire on saying how much they wanted the job and they were available for the season, yet several screwed me because their parents wanted them to do something else. I hate college towns...the kids don't learn to be responsible because they have parents like you that are just appalled at how their children are treated (sarc).

@ A LIBERAL

I'm active duty. I have been on active duty for the past 22 YEARS! As you read this I am sitting 5 miles out side of Kandahar City in AFGHANISTAN. THE hottest (temprature and firefights) part of the country. If YOU have to argue with the army something is wrong. Your son signed the enlistment contract. He should have READ THE ENLISTMENT CONTRACT. If it didn't state anything about an enlistment bonus, he is not entitled an enlisted bonus.

As a Senior NCO and Platoon Sergeant I REFUSE to coddle a soldier. What will they learn if I hold their hand through the training? The NCO's and Officers in your son's chain of command are not paid to be friends with him. They are there to train him so that he can handle the stress that will come with that units mission in combat. It's not an easy task doing anything here. We are constantly on guard because of the "Blue on Green" killings, suicide bombers, IED's and the hundreds of other threats. I deployed with 65 people in my Platoon. I plan on taking all 65 home. If I have to be one of the "bullies" then that's what I will be. I push my entire Platoon (Officers and NCO's) everyday we are here. They know their job as well as the job of the person to their left and right.

To Jeremy-17, thank you for your service and more importantly, thank you for being a Platoon Sgt. that does NOT coddle his soldiers. My middle son went through OSUT/Airborne last summer, he was in a "Low Stress" training unit, I would have felt much better as a mother without the coddling!!!........My other son is just back from a year in Panjwaii, 11B. Praying for all of you there!

Jeremy 17, you are the very reason the military is jacked up. I spent many years in the army and deployed with tenth mountain infantry division. As a platoon leader you can be friendly to the soldiers and not be a bully, never once did I ever see a reason to be mean to the soldiers you are deployed with, this just increases stress and make the situations worse. You are the reason many soldiers commit suicide and I can only hope after 22 years one day you will finally learn that being a douche bag of a sergeat does not make you a good leader but a very poor one that can not control his own soldiers, if you can't do it in a respectfull manner then you should never have been put in that position. You are not a drill sergeant!

@A Liberal, where did you think your son was going, to camp? I have 2 sons in the military, for my own peace of mind, I want them pushed to the limit both mentally and physically! They are being trained to be in a place and do things where those skills and discipline keep them alive along with the guys around them!!

It blows my mind that you actually called his Command!!! Bless his heart, you probably made his life miserable, and his discharge was probably NOT because of you complaining about his bonus, but a good riddance!

I sorry for my curriousity but have they named the victims? I knew someone that was stationed there since '87, I hope for him and his family he is ok. I have not had contact with that person in several years but often thinks of him. Any info would be nice, Jenny. In case your curious whom I am referring to his name is Jeffery Bier, thanks.

Why should the news media think of the families now? They never have before.

Sounds like the military is a Catholic run operation.

So its ok to get screwed and lied to. Many kids don't have choices so they go the military route as a path to finding a career. Janie don't be mad that your parents didn't care enough about you to challenge authority. Says alot about your character (nothing good). As you don't know Liberal's situation perhaps closing the mouth would be a good idea. Or you can show the entire world what a loser you are. Ooops too late!

I see nowhere that it says he was a Spec4, It says specialist! doesn't the specialist ranks go higher than Spec 4? I know it used to. All the way up to like Spec 8.

Janie, the day I stop being involved in my sons life is the day they put me 6ft under. Although his recruiter also gave him a runaround, he has never had any major problems while in the military. If and when he ever does, I will be there for him.

Adam. His parents cared enough to cut the cord and let him learn to stand on her own two feet !

Verno. I think now its just Specialist. E4.

Oops...his/her :)

@Adam, stop spewing the bs that there are no choices!!! The MAJORITY of those entering the military now have at least some college!!! I have 2 sons active and several of the guys that grew up with them and around them have served....I think you would be surprised how many GAVE UP scholarships to serve!!! My own sons had college PAID for, no loans both chose to serve in the military! One of my older sons best friends from his platoon walked away from scholarship offers from 3 schools....went infantry,, lost his leg to an IED in July of last year......guess what? He is one PT test away from going BACK to his unit! That is his goal, to go back to the Infantry!!! Don't disrespect our soldiers by making is sound like they are a bunch of lost causes.

'not expected to survive'

To Sergeant First Class "2541031"

In this particular case, this SPC was probably a "one-meter dud". I would guess his 201 file is a virtual landfill, but public access is forbidden (and rightly so) so we will never fully know. However we both know there are MOS's which are eternally pegged with a 798 cutoff score as well.

Thank you for your service.

Rare, but it happens. The kind of person who would hazard their career for a tool box tend not to advance very fast....

Signed, retired Senior Chief.

Condolences to all families involved.

I was honorably discharged to, and had a friend go through dis honorable discharge, and is life went on with little disruption...

He was not being discharged and sentenced to life in prison...he may have only faced 6months probation or in jail...either way his life was not over just because of the discharge...

Theres more to this than the tool box and dis honorable discharge....

They have the world's largest standing army, how do you like them apples?

i do like them apples...and when u need me to talk to them to beg for your life, you know how to find me

Wow, really... Whether you like all the aspects of our US military or not, it's because of them that you get to sit safely behind your computer condemning them. Next time you see a soldier, just say "Thank you," then shut up.

My condolences go out to all the families involved.

I was a Soldier and no I will not shut up. I know how the Army works and so do you. Next time you see a Soldier ask him if he is plotting to kill someone.

Then let me start by saying thank you for serving.

No, I won't ask if "he's plotting to kill someone." If he is, that is what his job is to do. No, I don't like every aspect of our military, but I do understand the need. If you can go get all the world to play by the same rules, and we all just "get along," then great. However, I sleep very well at night knowing where I live and who takes care of me.

You might have been in the service but you were never a soldier. You attitude is the reason you are out and expressing your sad views on line. I would like you to go and tell an active military person on bragg what you posted. Im sure you will say that you will and all that stuff but the truth is you are a coward, probably unstable, and need some help. I will pray for you.

Then sleep well knowing this: this story is just one of many like it. I write letter after letter trying to get better gyms, bus drivers, and fewer speeders, for the Soldiers. I do it even though they themselves fight me unknowingly in many many ways. I have face time with some high ranking person almost every week. Usually stories like this leak out because the military can't find a way to cover it up. I was at the Monroe Clinic in Ft Hood about a year ago and saw the aftermath of that bloodbath. I am here in the belly of the beast. I see this stuff. These are not 'honorable' people or acts. The gym here at the local military installation had the toilet overflow pouring u-know-what all over the floor and I was the only one who dared stand up to say anything. It has been 06 days since someone died on Fort Hood, and you can call the numbers here to verify. THe system does not work and it is time someone other than me did something about it. I can on and on, and have almost enough for a book that can explain all better, I am rambling I know. Think about why this shooting happed in the middle of a safety briefing. It is because the system does not work.

my link above did not come through, but just google mp fort hood mp phone number

Andrew:

I also was in the Army. And I have to partially disagree with you. Some Units in the Army are hell on earth - usually due to a bad commander, rotten NCO cadre, etc., etc. There were also good units as well. Sometime a battalion may have the full spectrum of good units and dud units. Looks like you had the misfortune of having a dud for a CO. I had three, but I do not blame the Army for their failings.

Thank you for Serving.

So you joined the military to get a good work-out program, and then realized it's not Gold's Gym? It's one's like you who are the problem with the military. To have such little regard for human life, and to justify it because you aren't pampered properly.

i don't need anyone's 'thanks' or other hollow words. If you really want to make change, write, meet with leaders and make change anyway you can. And tell the truth no matter how many are offended. And actually find out the truth with multiple source verification.

The pendulum does swing back, and we see that in this story. They get justice in the end.

I am going to sign out now so you all can continue to give me a morality lesson and "get the last word".

Andrew is a troll. He's a chinese national.

"I write letter after letter trying to get better gyms, bus drivers, and fewer speeders, for the Soldiers. I do it even though they themselves fight me unknowingly in many many ways. I have face time with some high ranking person almost every week."

There is no way that was written by an American Citizen. Who would write letters asking for better bus drivers on an Army base? And "fewer speeders" sounds like a chinky english. Does he really have face time "with some high ranking person"? Again chinky as hell.

Never trust a chinaman.

LOL! My sons complain constantly about the Bus Drivers on post, lolololol!!!

I think this may be the dumbest comment I have read all day.

seriously msteel?

How old are you??

If the SPC has a clean record (which I doubt) he probably would have been given a counseling statement and a statement of charges withholding some money until the toolbox was paid off. If the toolbox was lost overseas it would be written up as a War Loss. If this was a real theft, then he probably would have been given an Field Grade Article 15 for a first time offense. My guess is this individual has had prior disciplinary problems.

Personally, I would not see how useful the tools would be to a civilian if it were the basic OVM/OVE tools in most 2.5 and 5 ton trucks.

Jay - So because he served his country (not really that uncommon on Ft Bragg) they should have just allowed him to steal gov't property? Because since it fascinated him it was the right thing to do?

That POS stole a toolbox worth $1700 and the unit should have just said, "hey, it's OK man. We know you really wanted it."

And only a POS would do something like this.