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Lucas Velasquez
Lucas Velasquez takes part in a medical training drill performed outside Fallujah. Velasquez, a Navy corpsman, is carrying the stretcher in the front.
During a pair of six-month stints in and around Fallujah, Iraq –- then a fiercely volatile city –- Navy corpsman Lucas Velasquez came to know about life.
And death.
From late 2005 through early 2007, not long after nearly 100 U.S. troops and more than 1,350 insurgents were killed in Fallujah during Operation Phantom Fury, Velasquez routinely rendered emergency aid to wounded Marines while ducking bullets, rocket-propelled grenades and IED blasts. In uniform, Velasquez was smart and quick, adept at practicing field medicine literally while under the gun.
In 2007, after retiring from the Navy, Velasquez, then 23, enrolled at Columbus State University in western Georgia. He promptly failed four of his first six classes.
Lucas Velasquez
Lucas Velasquez enrolled at Columbus State University in Georgia after retiring from the Navy. He is pictured on the bottom, second from the right, with his Kappa Sigma fraternity brothers.
"It was a struggle," he said.
Velasquez hadn’t been in a classroom for more than five years. Instead of taking strategic lecture notes or studying highlights in the syllabus when prepping for exams, he scribbled nearly every word his professors uttered and tried to absorb every fact in his textbooks. Deeper, there was a vast cultural chasm between other freshmen and the survivor of multiple firefights and risky missions.
“At 19, I was in combat as opposed to trying to go find a party,” said Velasquez, injured before he came home. “They really don’t realize how precious life can be, how it can go away in the drop of a dime. They’re more worried about what they’re going to be wearing to school tomorrow, or the spring break that’s coming up. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s just two different people.”
Among the approximately 800,000 military veterans now attending U.S. colleges, an estimated 88 percent drop out of school during their first year and only 3 percent graduate, according a report forwarded by the University of Colorado Denver, citing a March 22, 2012 study by the Colorado Workforce Development Council.
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Scores of former servicemen and servicewomen who are among the best in the world at defusing bombs, tracking the enemy, patching bloody limbs, or negotiating with wary Afghans become futilely lost when trying to author an English paper.
Indeed, the vast, life-experience divide between war veterans and teens fresh out of high school – all now sharing the same classrooms – can make the scholastic transition awkward and arduous for ex-soldiers, said Michael Dakduk, executive director of Student Veterans of America, a support network for ex-military college students. SVA now has chapters on more than 500 campuses
Mix in the fat gap of time between the vets’ high school days and their attempts to blend into college life and the reasons for the dropout rate become even more obvious.
“They are (taking) academically rigorous courses after being removed from the academic setting for so long,” Dakduk said.
“I didn’t know how to study,” Velasquez said of his first months at Columbus State. “In the military classes (we had taken), they spoon fed you everything because they didn’t want you to fail. It was a struggle going from a structured lifestyle to one where everything is on you.”
A number of colleges – Dakduk mentioned the University of Arizona, Syracuse University, Rutgers University, Purdue University, Columbia University and Dartmouth College – offer well-crafted services that truly help retired military folks thrive in the college classroom.
But some schools falsely sell themselves as “military friendly” simply to attract veterans on the G.I. Bill when, in reality, they don’t have the adequate infrastructure or counselors to help former soldiers succeed, Velasquez said. After his initial failures, Velasquez had to independently seek external tutoring. He eventually boosted his grade point average to 3.8.
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Under the post-9/11 G.I. Bill, the federal government covers up to 100 percent of veterans’ tuition and fees. That money goes directly to the colleges, making the ex-servicemen and servicewomen financially attractive enrollees.
Earlier this year, SVA revoked chapters at 26 for-profit colleges that failed to meet the organization's requirements, mainly having a student-veteran – not an administrator – run the chapter. Those booted schools included the Art Institute of New York City, Brown Mackie College in Akron, Ohio, DeVry University in Orlando, Fla., ECPI College of Technology in Raleigh, N.C., and ITT Technical Institute in South Bend, Ind.
The misleading, so-called military-friendly sales pitch made by some colleges to attract vets, Velasquez said, is a big reason for the dropout rate.
“There was a concern around certain predatory, for-profit schools using our brand to legitimize their programs,” Dakduk said. (He added that better statistics are needed to precisely calculate the veteran dropout rate; the post-9/11 G.I. Bill was enacted three years ago, which means, Dakduk said, not enough time has passed to gauge its impact on today’s enrolled ex-soldiers.)
In August 2011, Velasquez transferred to the University of Colorado Denver after getting married. (He had been to Colorado earlier in his life and purposely picked the state for a new start). UCD, he learned, had a three-tiered system to help vets transition from military to college, stay in school and then move from graduation to the workforce. As part of that program, the school assigns an upperclassman to incoming ex-military students to mentor them socially and academically. It’s based on a similar program used at U.S. military bases.
“What we try to facilitate with that is the camaraderie -- the community -- because that’s one of the biggest things (ex-military) people miss,” said Cameron Cook, head of UCD’s veteran student services. “It’s one of the hardest things: missing your team, your friends in the military. That’s really hard to let go.”
A retired Marine, Cook soon e-mailed Velasquez and invited him to participate in the program.
“This is perfect, just what veterans need, something that helps them take that veteran experience and use it in college,” Velasquez said.
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Cook and his team also try to help vets who carry to campus “the invisible injuries” of war –- post-traumatic stress disorder.
“When they get out of the military, the average student veteran is so focused on transition into college, finding a place to live, getting on the G.I. Bill. They’re very busy reintegrating,” Cook said. “But then, after that first year, everything kind of slows down and that’s when the shadows come in.”
The “shadows” of PTSD, including rampant anxiety and sleeplessness, often are triggered by daily stress – for example, by exams.
“We see a big increase [in students presenting with PTSD symptoms] right at midterms and it grows exponentially until finals,” Cook said.
“One student told me that at the beginning of every semester he feels like he’s getting ready to go on a deployment,” Cook said. “And you can parallel finals to being like miniature battles.”
“And I’ve had other students say: ‘I don’t know why I’m stressed about a biology test when I was in Fallujah. Why am I stressed about this when I’ve been through so much previously?’ The reason is: the Fallujah experience gets linked to the stress of midterms. They already have stress and then academic stresses just build on that.”
Or, as one retired non-commissioned officer who attends UCD summed up the challenges of the veteran-college experience and high dropout rate: "I was the man in the military. We had so much responsibility [overseas], people's lives were on the line. Now I'm sitting next to an 18-year-old and I'm struggling to keep up with him in this class."
Bill Briggs is a frequent contributor to msnbc.com and author of “The Third Miracle.”
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If you are ill prepared for the rigors of college work, you will not be very successful. It doesn't matter what walk of life you're coming from. So the fact the Velasquez is a military veteran is not primarily contributing to his troubles. Diffusing a bomb will not prepare one to write a composition! One question, how does one "retire" from the Navy at age 23? I didn't have enough service time in until I was 39.
Run Forrest Run..
pluto
"he, too, was hit by enemy shrapnel that damaged his left knee"
Most likely medical retirement.
nobody, thank you. I missed that clue. Being a retired Personnelman, we usually did not refer to persons with temporary disability retirement (TDRs) as retired. My bad!
He was retired from the military by means of being medically retired with injuries , he could no longer perform his duties on a active status.
pluto
No problem. Us old retired farts (MSgt. USAF/Ret. 92) miss more and more as time goes on.
Most likely "retired" was incorrect and should have been "left, departed, expiration term in service..."
Non-combatants are different in their views on life, because our press fails to accurately reflect some of the realities of war. In my opinion this is a mistake. Everyone should know that war is a bloody, violent, horrific activity that should be the option of last resort. Our servicemen pay a heavy toll for their contribution and I think the public has a difficult time understanding that because they are insulated from it. It's a difficult transition from combat to any other occupation, especially being a student, as a polar opposite skill-set is required for it. Good luck to all returning home, and know that most of us appreciate your sacrifices.
College is a different way of thinking. I had the opposite problem when I went through training. Being a college graduate, I had been taught to come up with new ways of looking at things. That's what we did in class, dissected an idea and evaluated its individual parts. Didn't take long before I was disabused of that attitude! They're not kidding when they say, "Shut up and color." And there's nothing easier than a military multiple choice test.
Returning vets might do better to take a community college course or two first before plunging into the deep end.
I suspect the author doesn't understand the difference between "separating" and "retiring" based on his statement "...offer well-crafted services that truly help retired military folks thrive in the college classroom." I doubt those programs are tailored to Retired personnel from experience (as an old retired fart myself). Part of the problem is the economy and job opportunities. The living expenses for going to college can look good to a ex-service member who can find a job. If they haven't had time to acclimate to civilian life and or to decide what they really want to do with their education benefits...failure is definitely an option, just not a good one.
Ag99 - I agree with you that military tests don't require thought just memorizing but from your shut up and color comment I get the feeling you found the military the same way. I'm sorry if your experience in the military was less than challenging that my have to do with your choice of the branch of military. I spent 26 years in the AF and I was constantly challenged to think outside the box(a term I hated) to come up with ideas to improve processes with the Air Force. I was always given more responsibility that one would find in the civilian workforce and I thrive on the increased responsibly.
Well I am prior service as well, failed all but one class the first time around
Dropped out, then came back and it was smooth sailing from that point on.
I think it more common for anyone, I have a family memeber that never was in the military, stared college at age 25, and she failed bad, but didnt drop out. She is doing well now
If you have not been in school and you go, odds are you wont do so well
I don't think you can necessarily say if you haven't been to school in awhile you won't do well; I started college at 26 and now, 5 years later I am getting ready to gradaute from the MBA program with a 4.0. I think it has more to do with how well you were prepared for college to start with. College is a whole different ball game than high school is. In high school, the teachers generally hold your hand, and in many cases, curriculum is geared to the lowest common denominator, whereas college is geared at a much higher level. I think people, regardless of how old they are, need to realize this and not start with a full course load. People need to start out with a few simple classes to get themselves comfortable with the process.
natedom
Excellent advice. People out of a "learning" environment like school for an extended period of time need to reacclimate themselves with the process. To jump in and take a full course load is doing nothing but planning to fail. They need to work themselves into it again.
Unfortunately, as noted in the article, too many institutions look at veterans as a guaranteed cash cow and not as the individual student they are.
Unfortunately the VA doesn't see it that way. The clock starts ticking with that first class and when the time is up they quit covering the bills. 48 months and done or not a vet is DONE.
Agreed. It also doesn't help that a lot of the general ed classes have no practical value, especially for a veteran. We've learned how to write a short an concise report without a lot of fluff.. except for the annual evaluations. The enemy showed their head now they are dead. Conclusion, we won they lost.
It doesn't help that the VET has to actually attend school full time to get their housing benefits, so with their class schedule its hard to find a job in this economy. When school is out the VET housing benefits end while their on break so that means no money coming in. This puts an added stress on them. The one you can thank is Obama he changed the rules in AUG 2010.
Yeah the 'retired' thing seems to be journalistic error.
After ten years of being out school I'm not really having to many problems right now. You just gotta shift yourself from a structured life style in which the answers are obvious; to one were you begin to critically think about the answers to problems.
College professors aren't trying to teach you a set of formulas to use to solve problems; they teach the ability to know what formula you need to use to solve a problem.
Vastly different then the lessons of the military.
Well said William!
It is a paradigm shift going from a serviceman to freshman. I think the key is the training...In military service you are trained to follow orders (you do some thinking under combat situations, but not to analyze orders from a big philosophical standpoint, as you are not supposed to), but in college, there are no orders...one is expected to critically think for oneself...
Having said that, it is simply a matter of time to adjust to college...once the servicemen find a way to do the attitude adjustment, they will probably excel beyond an average freshmen, because military provides a good training, discipline and strict schedules...
Funny, part of my disillusionment with higher education came from sitting through classes where I observed just the opposite - the instructor (excuse me - professor) was more interested in having students learn to think like them than in thinking for themselves. In one English class the instructor was making mistakes and some of us students pointed out in the textbook the mistakes she was teaching, and we were told, "Well, let's put the books away for now, we're not going to use it for this. What I'm telling you is correct." I have also had instructors (OK - professors) who don't like students to "think critically" or "think for themselves" because in certain classes, it causes them to question whether the professor's "answer" is necessarily "correct" (or at least whether it's the only "correct" answer). Even if the professor agrees that there may be more than one correct answer, when it comes to tests, there is usually only one accepted answer (the professor's).
Also, most servicemen are aware of the "Commander's intent", which essentially means that they all know the end result that everyone is working towards, but orders cannot be given to cover every minute detail of everyone's duties/responsibilities, so for anything not explicitly covered in an order, they are to use their best judgement and ask themselves, "Does this further or hinder the accomplishing of the desired end result?" and "Is this the best method of handling this issue to expedite the accomplishing of the end result?" This is a far cry from being "spoon-fed" everything (that usually ends by the time you get to your first unit) and always being told what to do (it's not that different from a "civilian job" - the boss tells you what is expected from you and you do it, or face consequences, and as with any "high-risk job", safety issues often require more detailed rules/regulations and the consequences of not following them are greater).
Mydaughter is disabled and I can tell you college counselors do not know how to deal with special needs issues. I consider war veterans to have special needs. counselors will sign them up for more classes than they can handle on the premise they need to get out quick. But that's not it. They need remedial classes to get them going in the routine along with a couple of regular classes at the same time - never taking more than 12 hours until they have experienced some success. Also, they should get the major stuff out of the way first like their english and math. Then the others will be easier. College counselors don't tell them that either. That way they have a chance to mull it over and pick a major after their first year when they can truly give the course work the proper consideration. And they need to be made aware of tutoring available or how to ick up a "study buddy." Online classes are great, but not in the first and second semester if you have been out of the school arena for years. And if you have to work on to of it all, nine hours is max. If you run out of Pell hours, you can use the satisfactory progress rule - but only if the school had changed curriculum requirements that cause you to have to take different courses to meet core requirements, or if a major is dropped and you have to change majors. there are ways to do everything. veterans need help that colleges don't give simply because they are there to get your money. You are the one who is supposed to get the education. It is like buying a car without looking under the hood or taking it for a test drive! Take the 2 semester test drive and then decide what you want to do. You lived through a war - you CAN live through college!
I don't want anyone to jump all over me, because I have the utmost respect for our soldiers and think we need to do everything to help them succeed after leaving the military, but I have to wonder, how many people who joined the military right out of high school, because their academic future didn't look bright, are included in these statistics. To say, at 23, that you didn't know how to study because the military fed them everything, would lead me to believe that Valesquez wasn't an honor roll student to begin with. You don't magically forget how to study in 5 years. While the military can do wonders for many peoples lives, it isn't a magic ticket that makes you better able to handle any situation.
I totally agree with natedom.
The wife is still in and she has continued her education while she is in. it is stressful but all collage is when you actually try to learn the material instead of use the easy method of passing.
Auto 101 - I am certainly not saying no one from the military can or will do well in college, nor am I saying that everyone who joins the military does it because they did poorly in high school. My senior class valedictorian joined the air force right out of high school, he could have gone to any ivy league college he wanted to on a full ride (not only did he have a 4.0 GPA but he scored insanely high in the ACT's). He chose to join the air force because it was what he wanted to do with his life; 12 years later he is still in and will more than likely retire from the military. I have a friend who did okay in high school and joined the Army right out of high school, he could have gotten into a state college but chose to go the military route, he just recently graduated with honors (he is still in).
I am simply saying, when you have a large number of people who join the military out of high school because their educational prospects aren't great, or to stay out of jail (I know of a couple who did this), you can't blame them having been in the military for their lack of success in college. And you shouldn't expect them to do well, simply because they were in the military and can handle the stress of battle, at the end of the day, the stress of college is often too much for them. They may have been great in the military, the may have been great at sports in high school, and suddenly, the prospect of no longer being great is pretty disheartening.
Doesn't matter what war you were in; you are forever changed by the experience. Make that your strength. I was drafted out of college in '65 after 3-yrs getting my 2-yrs of junior college degree, having to work my way through. In those days a 2-S (student) deferment not allowed unless you were a full time student from high school on. After the war, I tried a summer semester of college to get my bearings. Couldn't focus. The civilian culture not only changed, but was hostile toward Vets and the VA didn't recoognize psychological wounds or offer any adjustment support, unlike today. So I went to work. Didn't return to college until I was 27 and got my BA at age 29 and grad school at 32. Married and a family in my late 30's. Now pushing 70. Give it time. Life is journey, not a race. You only see the life-patterns in your rearview mirror. I am stronger for the experiences, as are you. Accept the reality that you will forever be different from your non-military peers. Nothing that civilian life throws at you comes even close to one day in combat. That is your strength. Don't push the river, but rather flow with it. You will find your place and walk your path one day at a time, just like you did in the service. And on behalf of an older generation Vet, thank you for your service.
Excellent...Nam Vet!
What an ignorant article!! It gives the impression that military folk are less intelligent than others. What a disgrace!!!! Some kids going straight from high school to college have serious problems, as well as those who are older. It's all about being prepared in lower levels of education. The botoom line is the public school system sucks and just doesn't prepare its students for much of anything.
Exactly! Secondary schools are mostly for social education. College education is a different level. If you got some quality out of your secondary educational experience, it will prepare you for college study. Learning how to and managing you time in study is of the utmost importance. I started college after my first enlistment and did not do very well initially. With more experience, I eventually made the Dean's List. My military experience did not contribute to my early troubles, nor my later success. I find the article and its implication(s) irrelevant.
I've longed believed that the public high school system should offer two routes. On the junior year you can either continue on with college preparatory classes or funnel into a new program designed to provide useful certifications to train skilled works in areas that don't require a diploma.
Not everyone wants to go to college, I didn't out of high school and its part of the reason I went to the military.
Now that I'm older though I'd like to finish up my B.S. and move on to graduate school. I think level of success is determined by how much you want something.
William Bentley - I absolutely agree with you, not everyone should need to have a college degree. There are many professions that can be better taught through hands on experience. There are many people who excel in shop classes and what not and would love to go on to become a mechanic, welder or machinist but don't because they have to go to college to get a degree and they simply don't do as stellarly in traditional classes. There is no reason these types of professions can't have an apprenticeship where people can learn the trade, hands-on and be certified in their field.
who said you "need" a college degree, and who said a mechanic, welder, or machinist need college? I never met one of those guys who said they went to college? Usually just a certificate hanging at the shops they work at? you should not reply if you do not know what you are talking about...your probably the type that can't do college..
William Bentley- I went to a high school like you describe, the school district added an adult education program next to the high school campus and you had to enroll in both schools, but you received high school credits for the time you spent in your adult ed classes. Many programs do exist so high school students can substitute a training program for part of their high school classes, families need to seek them out and students need to plan ahead. You cant decide at the beginning of your senior year you want to enroll in a 2 year program.
@Holyscience - first, I am currently in college, I received my Bachelor's degree in 3.5 years and will finish my MBA in 1.5 years with a 4.0; considering it takes the average person 5 years to complete a bachelor's program and an additional 2-3 years for a master's program, I think I "can do college" just fine.
Second, if you are going to accuse someone of being "the type who can't do college" you may want to learn the difference between "your", as in beloning to you, and "you're", a contraction of you are. Also, that ? marks go at the end of questions, periods go at the end of statements. If you put a question mark at the end of a statement it appears as if you are unsure what you are saying is true. And finally, all sentences begin with a capital letter. You should really not comment on someone's ability when your cognitive abilities clearly suffer.
Third, that certificate is evidence of having attended some type of further education, usually at a tech or trade school. But as anyone will tell you, what once required a high school diploma or certificate, now requires at least an associates degree, what once required an associates degree now requires a bachelor's, and so forth. This is why so many who have held these types of jobs for 20+ years are being replaced by younger applicants or told to go back to school, because they are jobs that are becoming increasingly dependant on technology.
And finally, who said you "need" college, look at almost any job posting, most now require some type of college education, unless of course you want to work at Wal-Mart.
Another not friendly veteran school is Kaplan Univ.......the counselors lie, they give very very little credits for military time and seem to only care about Money.
He was able to " retire " from the Navy because he has a diagnosis or diagnoses that prevents him from doing his military job, therefore he probably is " medically retired ". There are over 15,000 soldiers going through this process now, but I'm sure there are that many Navy, Marine Corps and Air Force service members going through the same disability boards. Many legit, many mostly not! But that is the system that is in place.
I work with these guys all day long and that is often their transition plan; go to college. Despite never finishing high school, not taking simple JuCo or other classes while going through medical board or cruising through their last year of military service, wasting their time playing video games all day.....no effort to get ready for the REAL world. The new GI Bill is great, but its often about the money and not the education! Lots and lots of opportunity but no effort on their part, poor leadership and just a lack of responsibility to help themselves, but also poorly trained and lackadaisical Transition Coordinators and other counselors. The system is broke and until those who aren't doing their jobs are held accountable, nothing will change.
And thank you for your service!
"Medically retired" gives a wrong connotation or meaning and probably should be "medically separated" or "medically disabled" as some used to be medically chaptered if not able to do their job. The word retirement implies they get a retirement pension. The receipt of disability is different but of course both retirement and disability can be received if over 20 years and then medically discharged from a wound or illness.
Artie
Mr Velasquez could very well be medically retired if he had a certian number of years and is probably going to school on VA Voc Rehab. If he is Voc Rehab, he has access to other things that other vets do not. Services are already in place to help him with tutors, or someone to take notes for him if he is physically not able to.
If he is medically retired he does indeed get a pension from Dept of the Navy in addition to his VA disability and his stipend check.
I had big problems right out of high-school in college. I dropped out and joined the army for 3 years instead of getting drafted. After the 3 years in the Army, I went back to college on the GI Bill and had no problem what so ever.
I just think it is different for everyone. Right out of high-school, I was just a kid but after 3 years in the army, I was an adult.
The one thing this article didn't take into consideration are the Veterans who purposely do not try to do their class work. If they fail, oh well, the GI Bill pays for the class anyway. Unlike those who are paying for school themselves and if they fail, the class is paid for out of pocket instead of being covered under their student loans. My husband is an instructor for for one of the colleges mentioned above (in a different state) and he finds that the Veterans on the GI Bill simply do not do their assignments; not because they are having trouble in the class, but because they simply don't want to the work and choose to fail. And before anyone bashes me on this, I am a US Army Veteran who went to school many years after graduating HS and did just fine with my college classes.
And did you have the added stress of wounds, both physical and mental? Not to slam your opinion or your husband, but how does he know that his students simply do not want to do their assignments? It does sound like someone is not taking responsibility for their actions.
Shadowofself53 - while that is undoubtedly truthful for many vets, I am sure there are others who don't apply themselves because it isn't really costing them anything. I know, in my schooling, I have encountered those who don't try because their schooling is being paid through pell grants, or by their parents, or whatever. In many cases, if you aren't directly paying for it, you don't value it. The sad thing is, for many, especially with these vets, they will probably later regret these mistakes and wish they still had the GI bill to go back to school when they are a little older and more ready to really determine their futures.
Her husband is their teacher. Not their babysitter. He's not responsible for the work they do or don't do. By college level at least the students should be taking responsibility for their own actions.
@Reaj: The Post 9/11 GI Bill can and will recoup money from the student if a course is failed. In fact, a fellow veteran attending the same school I graduated from was required to repay the cost of a failed course.
And BTW, you should know as a vet that we do pay for those classes, just not in the traditional way.
What wounds and stress are you guys talking about that prevents you from being normal? Did the soldiers coming home from WW2 have this problem?....NO, they did not, and they did just fine after the war, and to top it off, they were drafted! Today's soldier is mainly made up of high school losers looking for a way to belong somewhere, that is why they fail, they are failures before they left for service. They are gun ho during service because it does not require them to write papers and do calculus. They just get trained to believe the person next to them is their brother and only those around them matter. You really think people join the army to keep America free? LMAO
Even the Vietnam Era GI Bill required the student to pass the course or the cost/entitlement would be recouped. However, this means that the student would have to earn a flat-out "F".
This absolutely is a factor. I can attest from my own personal experience that having a chronic pain issue that has yet to be successfully resolved is extremely distracting and makes concentrating on anything for very long virtually impossible. Pain tends to rule your life when it's always there and never goes away. It makes thinking and doing things quite difficult, and this would include absorbing and comprehending new information and effectively completing course work, some of which can become extremely tedious, depending on the course.
How is pain treated? I guess good physical therapy does wonders for a lot of people, but I 'guess' that because I do not know myself. The pain treatment I received amounted to advice from government doctors not to do anything that hurt (which was everything, including laying in bed) and lots of narcotic painkillers. Pain makes thinking and functioning in general tough, but heavy drugs don't exactly do any favors, either. They take the edge off of pain, granted, but the side effects are just as bad. Like 'cottonmouth' that never goes away, regardless of how much water you drink. Temperature regulation issues - freezing one minute, frying the next. Losing your sense of feeling in your fingertips and other sensitive areas. Tinnitus. There's many more, not all of which are things one mentions in polite company.
Pain can greatly interrupt sleep. Try academically challenging courses when you get little to no sleep for several nights in a row because pain wakes you up or keeps you up. It doesn't work too well.
Painkillers can thoroughly louse up your appetite. Half the time, you may find you have no appetite whatsoever. You eat because you know you have to, but you're just not in the mood to. Food is not appealing. The rest of the time, you can't smell or taste it anyway, so even if you are hungry, meals are still very unfulfilling.
Lastly, endless pain is extremely discouraging to most people. Working hard to do something to make your future brighter seems rather pointless when it appears that the pain is never going to end. It was a number of years before I quit hurting enough that I could begin to consider myself anywhere near 'normal'.
If the soldier or veteran fails or drops a class, he or she is required to reimburse those tuition monies back and the book stipend portion. For graduate level work, an overall GPA of 3.0 is required or you may be put on academic probation by the VA. So standards are in place for proper use of the benefits so you need not be jealous of the "free" college that veterans serving our country are entitled to and earn as part of their military service. The Montgomery GI Bill actually requires a $1200 input from any soldier that applies for it and many never use it and do not get their money refunded.
Janine
He is indeed their teacher not their babysitter however he does have a responsibility to his students so instead of just saying they just do not do their assignments, just maybe he should find out why instead of making a blanket statement that makes it sound like he looks down on his students.
Many good points. With regard to my husbands responsibility to his students, he does ask them why they aren't turning in their assignments and they say because they don't want to that even if they do fail the class they don't care because they don't have to pay for the class. It is possible that the university he works for doesn't require the Vets to pay for the class out of pocket but I do sincerely hope that they end up having to anyway. The Veterans are wasting a valuable resource with their education by being that way and in essence abusing the GI Bill.
Between an education system under the control of teachers unions and education funding being cut to the bone over the past years, it's no surprise that college is tough for all but those whose families are big contributors to the atheletic or endowment funds. We have done our children and grand-children a horrible dis-service.
Let's not miss what may be the most important part of this article, which is that "Student Veterans of America" is a support organization, and can advise and assist vets who are using the new GI Bill. Please note what was said about the for profit institutions of higher learning: they are mostly about the money.
Take home message: do not attend a for-profit college or university unless that is your only option, and even then, keep working on being able to transfer to a school with a longer and better track record. Many of these "for profits" popped up just to take advantage of the new funding available under the revamped GI Bill.
Former military members need to make sure they use what they have been given for their own best advantage, not someone else's bottom line.
I personally feel that most service members are not academic achievers to begin with. I joined the Marines fresh out of high school, so that I could get free tuition from the GI Bill. I could'nt afford to go to college on my own, so that was my option. Alot of these people choose the military because they don't have any other avenues available. However, it is a very difficult transition. To think that you'll excell in college because you excelled in the military is a pipe dream. In the civilian world, you actually have to think on your own. A far cry from the military.
I obviously don't know your experience with other military members, or what your job was that left you with the impression that "most service members are not academic achievers to begin with" but I have to say my experience was completely different.
I joined after 2 years of Gen Eds and couldn't afford the crushing debt of the 2 years and a third with no jobs hiring (in 2000). My ASVAB score allowed me to pick the field I wanted and my top 2 were Intel (closed at the time), Aircraft mechanic (open, so off I went!). I worked with highly intelligent people. Their reasons for joining the military all different, be it $$ for education when they got out, following the family tradition, unable to afford college (some people don't want to sign up for the horrendous debt that college requires to MAYBE get a job with).
I and a few other Marines also went to Embry Riddle Aeronautical Institution on the air station until OPS tempo became such that we had to stop taking classes.
In the civilian world you have to think on your own, yes, and guess what it is the same in the military. There are guidelines and orders you have to obey. Certain 0 tolerance policies, but other than that, they don't tell you when to use the head or when to wipe your nose. When on an aircraft troubleshoting for hydraulic failure, you have to understand how the hydraulic system and components work, no one can tell you how to fix it unless you are new and still learning with OJT. There are these scenarios throughout every MOS in every branch of the military. You are taught to think on your feet, save lives, and work as a team.
There are some that excel in the military and can't function without it, but there are others that excel in the military and in the civilian world. You cannot paint all members of the military with a wide brush of sterotypical labels. (After I served, I got out, completed my bachelors degree, with honors, was inducted into the Delta Mu Delta International Honor Society in Business, got a great job with a great company and am still supporting my active duty soon-to-retire husband).
Horribly insulting and misleading headline, by the way. MSNBC ought to be ashamed.
I went to college after returning from Vietnam. Found a couple of buddies that were also vets. We shared the challenges and made it through together. State university did nothing to ease the transition, and we had nothing in common with the 18-year-olds we attended classes with.
The teaching process has also changed a lot in the last few years. My son returned to school for paramedics after the military and he said it was gruesome and several people fell short near the end of the program. I'm not a veteran, but I returned to school after graduating in 2000 with a masters degree. I am an educator changing careers. Back then I worked full time and held side jobs while going to school part time and a single mother. That was easier then than just going to school! There is so much content thrown at you, between the curricullum and internet (many classes have sites that you have to access for tests, practice lessons, research papers etc) that the information is overwhelming... some of the kids in class are just out of HS and accustomed to this electronic age, but for older students it's exhausting. Professors are teaching less and putting more self-learning on students.
I saw this happen with my father after he had served in both Korea and Vietnam and he started slow with one class and then built up. In the end he was on the Dean's List with his Associate's Degree and that was his goal. His approach to school was an inspiration to me and my brothers.
Later, while in the Navy and since, I went to school and when I first stated I followed my Dad's example and stated slow before rolling into a fairly decent GPA and 2 graduate degrees.
Now I work for the federal goverment and wrote a book about how vets can get hired by the feds. Check out "The Coffee Break Guide for Veterans Seeking Federal Employment."
Cheers!
Well, usually military folks aren't the greatest academic folks; in the old days wasn't it always the choice between going to college or going into the military? Academics and physical warfare are two very different things. I am starting to think that the government needs to get out of the education business...they have encouraged the universities to jack up their prices because of easy gov't money, encouraged folks that shouldn't be in the military into joining, filled students' minds with false expectations for what a university education can get them in real life, and enabled millions of students to get themselves into lifelong debt because of their misinformation campaigns and easy loan money.
After Vietnam, I attended college, received a degree in Accounting and Finance, and spent the next forty-years having a great time in the business world. Along the way, I managed to get involved with several church and community groups that helped direct high school students in a direction that best suited their future, and make sure they would have fun, regardless of their career choice. If possible, I would be interested to know if the VA or other agencies are looking for mentors (short word for old men) to help veterans with college work, or perhaps to direct these returning veterans into a career choice that will make them happy and successful. College is not for everyone, but if a veteran wants to go to college and just needs a little guidance through the academic minefield, I would like to help, if the system is set-up for mentoring support services.
Thanks for your positive outlook and willingness to still volunteer and assist others, not just military.
I graduated from DeVry , Orlando in 2005. I was very hard for me to do the work, but I had a huge support system at home. If it wasn't for them, I would have never made it.
I had the choice to ether got to College or the Marines. I chose to go to the Marines. Then College.
I always thought something was a little off at DeVry in the Help department, there was none for Veterans.
Two other considerations. 1. Resolution is more difficult if you dropped out of HS or failed. Gotta be prepared.
On the other end you could have a prof like the supposedly enlightened Irshad Manji at NYU who shortchanges her jihaud companions suggesting they DO NOT get 72 virgins, but 72 raisins. Interesting class.
Bentley and Natedom, above, bring up a very cogent rationale.
It is a fallacy that college is for everyone. Far too many, military or not, are not college material. When I was growing up, New York had three tracks, academic, commercial, and general. All had the core courses for literacy, and the basic math skills to function. Approximately one third of High School students were in the academic, preparatory for college, track. The commercial track was heavy on the skills needed for white collar office and retail careers. General provided needed skills to enter into what is called the 'blue collar' segment. I sincerely doubt if our society has changed to justify those 'tracks' to be changed. When my car needs fixing, or when my house is in danger of collapsing, give me a good mechanic. I will not ask him, or her, for a college diploma.
The structured military environment makes it easy to concentrate on a single task at a time. In college, there is a great variety of stuff to deal with - a great diversity of subjects in the classes, emphasis on social status and sports, distractions during study time, and a hierarchy based more on the economic "status" of a student rather than earned rank. The teenage to 22-year-olds can also rely upon parents and family to provide support, both monetarily and in encouragement, while the vets are not only dealing with school, but also the daily hassles of supporting themselves, dealing with taxes, rent, groceries, car payments, and other monetary problems. Most of them have little or no support from their parents. Many of them are married and have children of their own. Combine that with a menu of required subjects that have no bearing upon the nature of the jobs they are trying to become qualified for, such as English Literature for someone trying to become a chemical engineer, and you have a recipe for failure.
i dont know about this guy, how ever i teach classes in a cc, i won't say where, but most people vets or not are more concern about playing in their iphone or ipad, than studying. i dont think it is the fact that he is a vet, i think he is not applying him self, and this comes from a vet from a more terrifying war
More terrifying war could you possibly have been to? I spent my time in the jungles of SE Asia and can tell you in all honesty that I would rather have been there than deal with the stuff that is dealt with now. What a @!$%#ED up statement.
...and they have to listen to all the far left professors lying about who killed civilians in Iraq and blaming America for all the deaths.
They know the terrorists they fought did nearly all the killing of civilians, having seen much of it with their own eyes. And they know they tried to protect civilians every day over there. But all they'll hear is how evil and rotten the US and the US military were over in Iraq while they're at college.
Must be tough to take for a young guy at college, who lost friends probably over there or saw them injured.
Not all education is the truth.
Name the university, professor, and classroom that this took place.