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Subscribe to RSSExplosive bursts somewhere in the night – somewhere close – send Marine veteran Pete Chinnici lunging to his feet and scurrying outside, heart racing, chest heaving. His instinctive mission: track, identify and “eliminate the threat.”
To Chinnici, 26, who served two tours in Iraq and has since dealt with a mild case of post-traumatic stress disorder, the loud, staccato pops can sound much like a machine gun.
“I instantly want to know," he said, "where the sound is coming from so I can understand what I’m up against.”
Throughout that brief, chilling moment, Chinnici knows intellectually that he’s prowling his own yard in Phoenix. Emotionally and instinctively, however, he’s been momentarily yanked backward in time to an unfriendly, unpredictable, violent land. The trigger: kids playing with firecrackers.
As the nation’s birthday looms – and, most definitely, on July 4 – an unknown number of combat veterans, including active and retired soldiers diagnosed PTSD or not, will cringe, flinch and feel anxious as the crackle of fireworks sporadically fills their American neighborhoods, towns and cities. The annual celebration of freedom has, for many warriors, become one of the worst days of the year.
Unlike some of his veteran friends who must avoid public fireworks shows, Chinnici can handle those spectacles, with a little mental effort, he said. It’s the random, neighborhood bottle-rocket bangs and M-80 claps that cause him to rise to his feet in full battle mode.
“Even though you’re aware that it may not be anything dangerous, probably just fireworks, your body still goes through the response,” said Chinnici, whose Iraqi deployments came during parts of 2005, 2006 and 2007.
PTSD can carry an array of chronic, otherwise-invisible symptoms that flare momentarily or take root for a time: nervousness, hyper-emotionality, an inability to sleep, and an overreaction to seemingly humdrum, daily moments. These feelings are unleashed from deep in the memory, hardwired back to real, horrible events that occurred just once or many times during battle such as IED detonations, mortar bursts and gunfire. Visual or auditory reminders – or both – commonly set off such symptoms for veterans, said Dr. John Hart, medical science director of the Center for BrainHealth at the University of Texas at Dallas.
Brendan Smialowski / AFP - Getty Images
From sea to shining sea, Americans have many different ways of showing they're true to the red, white and blue. Celebrate the Fourth with this star-spangled gallery of patriotic images.
“Fireworks hit right in the heart of these causes. Here’s an explosive-looking thing and a loud noise,” said Hart, who researches the neurological components of the disorder and works with veterans whose PTSD “arousal triggers” include abrupt noises.
“What they’ll feel when they hear or see fireworks is mostly fear, a sense of threat as they did during combat when the IED went off or when the Humvee blew up,” Hart said.
Related: Thousands of veterans failing in latest battlefield -- college
Many psychologists who help servicemen and women wrestling with PTSD encourage them to head to quiet places on July 4, far from fireworks displays, or to don headphones and listen to music.
But even veterans or active-duty personnel who have not been diagnosed with PTSD can – and will – feel antsy when the rockets red glare burst in midair.
“Firework agitation is a common reaction for those of us who've survived mortar attacks, bombings, and explosions,” said Julie Weckerlein, 31, who five years ago served as a military combat correspondent for the U.S. Air Force in both Iraq and Afghanistan. She has not been diagnosed with PTSD.
“It wasn't until I started talking with other veterans about it that I realized that many others feel the same way I do. It's changed the way my family celebrates the July 4th holiday together, which isn't necessarily a bad thing," she added. "Instead of setting off explosives or watching others do so, we find other ways – calmer, quieter ways – to celebrate our freedoms, because the holiday and this country is worthy of the celebration.”
For Chinnici, however, he plans to be sitting beneath a colorful, crashing fireworks display in Phoenix on July 4, watching with his kids.
Dealing mentally with flash-and-boom extravaganza, he said, requires “a combination of trying to combat it from the perspective that I have my children there and I don’t want them to see this PTSD-symptom scenario unfolding and, at the same time, trying to go there so that I’m fully aware of what’s going on – so that I almost predict each pop.”
Still, he expects to shudder a bit during one showy explosive that is a favorite for most of the rest of the crowd.
“The only ones that really bother me are those that veer off slightly – the whistling ones,” Chinnici said. “Even though you’re cognitively aware of what’s going on, you still look around, waiting for something to land.”
Bill Briggs is a frequent contributor to msnbc.com and author of “The Third Miracle.”
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not gunna lie. They do make me jump.
Eye Movement Desensitization Reprocessing (EMDR) can help desensitize this trigger and the accompanying response very quickly.
It's very good for PTSD and its symptoms.
The medical establishment and the Veterans Administration has only recently embraced the fact that PTSD even exists! While I am not familiar with EMDR, getting ANY treatment is difficult for these soldiers from the present system. I work with homeless veterans, young and old, and this problem persists until the day they die. Thanks for the info!
My Dad used to freak a little at the first sound of a helicopter turning to find the direction. Two tours in Vietnam so he related any helicopter sounds to the Hueys.
Take an Ambien and use earplugs. This past New Year's Eve, I didn't even have to use earplugs, just the Ambien and I honestly didn't even hear my next door neighbor shoot off their dozen or so M80s.
"Attention on the FOB..."
Hmmm... It's not just the 4th of July. It's New Year's Eve as well; and, any other time there is a loud BANG...or, the sound of low flying aircraft, especially helicopters...!!
It is very important for people to realize that one does not have to experience combat in order to have service-connected PTSD (Posttraumatic Stress Disorder). Many civilians have PTSD and do not know it.
PTSD is an insidious mental health condition brought on by stress or trauma events, and PTSD will not go away over time. Presently, there is no medicine that will cure PTSD.
While EMDR might lessen the symptoms in some veterans, EMDR certainly is not a cure. I believe EMDR is over-hyped; and it is just the latest flash in the pan thing to try.
The situation is not with just the more recent veterans. Many veterans from WWII and Korea have PTSD and do not know it.
PTSD can stay around for a very long time, becoming chronic with other symptoms such as depression, anxiety disorder, alcohol abuse, drug abuse, intrusive recollections, flashbacks, numbing social isolation, etc.
Yes, men and women have volunteered to serve in the U.S. military. However these men and women did not sign up for: the above described issues, and, trouble sleeping, such as: night sweats, tossing and turning, running legs, nightmares or bad dreams, arms flailing, or yelling during sleep. Also, the person could be more than a little jumpy, (hyper startle response), or irritable.
I know a veteran who did not serve in combat, but he has a rating of 70% for service-connected PTSD. He tells me that he would gladly trade the VA compensation he receives for no more nightmares, no more night sweats, no more yelling and flailing in his sleep, and especially getting rid of his hyper startle response – all of those are issues he has had to deal with since 1967. As he nears age 70, he says that he is growing very tired of all of it.
(I use bold so I can see the comment more easily.)
I hear ya collie. I've gotten over checking out every piece of trash that I see on the side of the road while I'm driving, but I think the pops and bangs will always get my attention.
I've always wondered about this. I don't like this way of celebrating and its too wasteful of money. Why not use the day & money building a house for a Vet and with music and picnics. NO FIREWORKS. NO BOMBS. NO GUNS.
There is no CURE for PTSD and never will be. The only cure is to not go through the bad experience...Especially an Unecessary War or War for Corporate expansion. To celebrate with Bombs red Glare on the 4th is ultimately sick. Celebrate with life, picnics etc. We look like Warmongers trying to entice children and young people to the Glory of Death, maiming and torture. Fireworks promotes PTSD and a culture of War. Sick, sick sick. Make a pill for that.
Two billion dollars will be spent on this presidential election! How many homeless veterans could be saved from this amount of money? We spend 10.2 million for each facility that can accomodate 500 veterans per year with a self supporting mandate. With a forty year project life span that is $510.00 per veteran per year! We unfortunately cannot get many supporters!
Huh? Think of how many millions of Chinese must have suffered or are presently suffering from PTSD since they use fireworks for every celebration.
I've been around fireworks for many years and don't suffer from PTSD as aresult.
Gotta hand it to you. Against one prominent industry that has the capacity to negatively alter lives while promoting another industry that can be argued just as negatively. Solve the nation's woes - swallow a pill and support big pharma.
@Whistleberries,
You haven't looked at the brain scan data, with EMDR and PTSD have you?
Not only is it more effective than meds, its more effective than Trauma Focused Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and results keep improving over time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LM_nw5N3n-I
There is a video for you to look at.
It's not a flash in the pan at all. It's science.
I use EMDR in my practice with people with PTSD. You want the nightmares to stop, just target them with EMDR in a session or two they are gone.
This is @!$%#ing breaking my heart.
First off, I really actually hate the little @!$%#ers running around shooting off fireworks. It mostly seems to be about being irritating, rude, noisy, and as dickish as possible. People just do not seem to be able to control themselves, and they think that the entire two weeks to either side of the Fourth are meant for all-night fireworks extravaganzas, regardless of who is trying to actually get enough sleep to @!$%#ing make it to work in the morning.
I don't sense a lot of 'patriotism' in someone blowing up $500 worth of ludicrous crap in the street in front of my house. Especially when it's me out there sweeping up the mess the next morning.
But -- how many people spend those 2/4 weeks a nervous wreck because of PTSD?
Sometimes I just don't know if the human race is gonna make it.
I've been treated with EMDR. It helped a little. I therefore view it as a legitimate treatment but not a cure.
I hate the sound of fireworks and the smell of burning powder. Brings back too many nightmares.
Having received training and a degree in mental health counseling I would love to work with veterans with PTSD. However, since our current establishment treats mental health in such a flip manner, cutting budgets across the board, they seem bent on people flooding emergency rooms and, in some cases, jails. Because people like me can't find a job we can't get to the people who need help; a lose-lose situation. People are suffering because those who can help alleviate suffering are suffering themselves.
EMDR therapy is a cure for PTSD if you have a clinician well trained in it. It is one of only three trauma treatments used by the Department of Defense. Unlike the other two therapies, with EMDR you don't need to talk about the event in detail. A study with combat veterans found that 78% no longer had PTSD in only 12 sessions. Since EMDR doesn't need homework it can be used on consecutive days.
No veterans from any war have to suffer from symptoms of PTSD. Take a look at this video to see how EMDR can cure veterans.
Veterans from any war can get free EMDR treatment. See www.emdrhap.org
It does a real disservice to say that PTSD can't be cured. It's simply not true. Too many veterans and others with PTSD are suffering needlessly. You can also learn more about the therapy and get self-help techniques to use immediately in the book Getting Past Your Past
During the Vietnam era veterans were told that PTSD is something you have to live with for the rest of your life. This just is not so today. The VA/Department of Defense Clinical Practice Guidelines has recognized three evidence based models of psychotherapy that are noted to be effective in the treatment of PTSD. Those models are EMDR, Prolonged Exposure, and Cognitive Processing Therapy. Veterans need to know there is hope, not just someone's opinion.
I am retired from the Army and the director of a center which specializes in the treatment of combat trauma including PTSD. Every day I have soldiers and veterans who have reclaimed their lives as a result of effective treatment. We do pre- and post-treatment evaluations of the treatment. Clients leave our program asymptomatic of the PTSD. We do follow-up to insure their treatment holds - it does! I have found EMDR to be an effective treatment for PTSD. It is evidence based, recognized by the VA/DOD Clinical Practice Guidelines and clients reclaim their lives – it witness veterans reclaiming their lives every day through effective treatment for PTSD. Our treatment of choice for PTSD and other life adjustment issues is EMDR. It works!
So, if you are a veteran, find out the truth about evidence-based treatments rather than reading opinions. There are far too many veterans struggling with a sense of hopeless when in fact they can find effective treatment. For vets who have no resources we provide treatment pro bono thanks to a grant from the McCormick Foundation and the EMDR Humanitarian Assistance Program. For more information check out website at: www.soldier-center.com. Happy 4th!
Took me several years to deal with fireworks celebrations. Time does heal all wounds, but its going to take a patient mind to recognize them for what they are and to deal with the panic attacks/break downs that occur. Last tour was in 2005/6, and its just been in the last year or two that I have been able to enjoy a good fireworks show.
With all due respect, time does NOT heal all wounds. Too many veterans have been waiting decades for the symptoms to go away. The stigma involved in treatment is misguided. It's actually a physical problem. The combat memories are stored in the brain with the emotions and physical reactions. The memories get triggered and the negative reactions are immediate. That's also the reason that anger flairs up and it's hurt many marriages.
Help is available so that veterans and their families can return to normal within about a dozen EMDR therapy sessions.
profreedom-5130956, I find your inability to get such work as tragic. You may think you do not want to, but consider going to another state. Such misguided budget cuts are illustrated by the old saying, 'cutting the nose off to spite the face'.
I can deal with fireworks as long as they're not being used to purposely startle me from behind or something. I prepare myself mentally every year for the Fourth celebration- something I also like to participate in with my own fireworks. I try to let my neighbors know when I'm going to fire some off to minimize any problems a fellow PTSD sufferer might have. I started doing some fireworks on my own in a semi-successful effort at desensitization for myself after I found myself unable to bear the large fireworks displays on holidays. Now my biggest problem is at funerals where military honors are rendered. I just about jump out of my skin when they fire the 21 gun salute in spite of the fact that I participated in hundreds and hundreds of military funerals while in the service. It takes about 3 days to get past that and feel "normal" again.
With all due respect, if I wanted spam I'd go to the supermarket. Lobby congress if you want new and inventive ways you feel can be helpful. I can only speak from my own experience, and that is the VA and their treatments are worth the distance I can throw them.
I am happy to see this article, because it is so true. For years after Vietnam I would go into battle alert every 4th and New Years eve. It is not so bad now but many symptoms still remain 42 years later. I took advantage of a symptoms management course at the VA and it helped tremendously. Just knowing that so many others had the same symptoms at least let me know I wasn't crazy. This is a terrible cost of war, that is why conflicts shouldn't be prolonged. Go in take care of business, get out.
It's a shame that so many veterans do not believe there are effective treatments because they have been mishandled by the VA. Check out the blogs by Mark Russell at the Huffington Post.
EMDR therapy is being used extensively by the Department of Defense. It's very effective and rapid. Too bad more people don't know about it.
Amen Bullet171. 35 years after the fact I still jump from unexpected bangs. Living half a mile from a small airport gets me going some times.Helicopters doing touch and goes after dark. If I know whats going on and expect the noise, it doesn't bother me.
I have severe PTSD and didn't notice until my former wife noticed my attitude and actions. I was with 2nd BDE 3 Armored Division in DesertShield/Storm,and 18 plus in the Army. "birds,Choppers,loud noises,and crowds make me real uneasy,and when I had a job as a forklift operator,my coworkers would go into empty trailers,turned the key off and on to make the damn thing backfire so bad, I would actively seek cover. Now,for the last years,I've been on total disability Medication????VA has me on 8 different kinds,which I can't handle,as I have a new wife and responsibilities,and being unalert and in ZOMBIE land just doesn't cut it. So,without alcohol,which I used to resort to to "chill",because it became a problem,I use "natural",then go garden or something to calm me. I'm 53,and ONE knows how to help fight the damn "SHELLSHOCK,PTSD,or whatever name is given. GOD BLESS US EVERYONE!
Count me in !!!!!!
I am one of those who still jump at the sound of fire works. If I know when they will go off it's not to bad. But the ones that surprise me send me headed to the bunker or into a cold sweat .
bob
EMDR DOES work!!! And not just for vets....anyone who has experienced trauma & has PTSD. I witnessed both of my parents die & was a total mess...couldn't close my eyes, kept reliving it like a movie playing over & over in my head. The sights, smells, everything was so real. Very very traumatic. I felt like I was going to die.  EMDR saved my life. Please, if you know someone who is suffering from PTSD, talk to them about EMDR. I am so thankful I was able to stop the "movie". EMDR WORKS!!!!
Anyone out there have any idea when the insanity will end? What a waste of time of the majority of tax payers money, like our politicians ever worried about managing YOUR free money to them?
no surprises, this article is about fireworks and PTSD, not taxes and politicians.
Some of you newsviners could use a new hobby.
Celebrating our independence is a great thing. It's part of the American tradition, as much as baseball and football.
It's a good way to spend the money, and gives the family something to do together.
i thought no surprises was asking about when the insanity of war would end. that would be a fair question in the context. difficult to achieve, of course, as most truly big, corrupt fortunes of all of history have been driven by war industry profits, and, of course, paid for by taxes on the rest of the population. nothing more. nothing less. defensive wars, of course, are another story.
The question is justified. All these veterans suffering from PTSD, potentially endangering themselves and others, and for what? So a couple of elected officials and their corporate buddies could get richer? F--k that!! I want my share of those wasted tax dollars back, with interest. At the very least, give it to the veterans to help defray treatment costs.
"Anyone out there have any idea when the insanity will end?"
No, I thought VietNam would be a learning experience, but apparently not. I imagine that more US soldiers have died in combat since 2000 than all other countries combined... except for those countries we are fighting in (taliban, iraqis, etc) and the insanity in Africa. The Israelis can probably count their fallen on their fingers. Meanwhile we just keep grinding away on the other side of the planet rather than just protecting our borders. Go figure. 9/11 was and always will be first and foremost a border control issue... allowing terrorists into the country for no reason whatsoever.
I cannot even imagine what the vets have been through. While I will miss the firework shows that have been cancelled because of the fire danger I have enjoyed the peace and quiet of the firecracker ban. I am not a vet but in today's world I do not know the difference between gunshots and firecrackers sounds. I now jump when a balloon pops while out in public. You just never know. Crazy crazy world.
It's bad for the dogs and cats as well.
When I was growing up, our cat used to hide in a box in the garage till after midnight on the 4th, scared to death.
One of my dogs is reduced to a quivering, panting mess when he hears fireworks. Nothing seems to comfort him except the cessation of noise.
The dogs and cats are scared? Geez! Some of you people just don't grasp the situation do you? Worried about your cats and dogs while humans are hurting.
I would imagine popcorn is not a big seller in this demographic.
Enma, I'm an Iraq vet and a dog owner. I get a bit jumpy when I hear the pops and bangs but I'm able to tell myself that it's just fireworks and I know that I'm not in danger. My dog shakes uncontrolably and is absolutely terrified because she doesn't know that there isn't a real danger and I can't explain that to her. I feel worse for the dog than I do for myself.
I know that dogs get scared because they don't know what is going on. My problem is that this article is NOT about dogs, it is about human beings. Human beings that have experienced the horrors of war and are forever scarred by this. The dogs are scared because they don't know what is happening, the people are having flashbacks to pure terror. There is a difference and this article is about people. As the wife of a Viet Nam vet I think talking about dogs when people are in pain is completely and totally insensitive.
We've had a number of dogs and cats over the years, just one cat now, I have loved them all, but I know the difference!
Compassion for one doesn't necessarily preclude compassion for the other. There is room in most people's hearts for both. The difference is that humans understand what they are hearing, the animals don't. But the reactions are the same when animal instinct takes over, and it illustrates just how like them we still are, despite all our technology and intelligence.
Also, keep in mind that there are plenty of dogs out there who went to war with the humans, trained to sniff out bombs, IED's, drugs, etc. They are vets as much as their two-legged counterparts are, and they too suffer from the same symptoms that their human friends do.
Try dosing your dog with liquid children's Benadryl at sundown. The diphenhydramine can help your dog calm a bit.
Or if you want a natural remedy, try getting Melatonin from the vitamin section of your local drugstore/pharmacy/walmart. they come in 1mg, 3mg and 10mg strengths. Crush the vitamin and mix with small amount of water and administer with eyedropper (for small dog) or turkey baster (for large dog.) Melatonin is a natural hormone secreted by your brain that helps you go to sleep, and it has a calming effect.
I am a longtime animal shelter volunteer. We've seen a lot of our animals (not just dogs and cats) get stressed/shocked during fireworks/storms, and these are among the things we try to calm them down. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.
If you don't want to forcefeed your dog, there' a natural fruit-juice based beverage out there called Neurosleep that has tryptophan and melatonin in it. If you can find it, it's a light citrus-y kind of juice in an orange hourglass-shaped bottle (try a google search). My 9 year old son is autistic and fireworks (the lights and sound) do something with his brain chemistry that just makes him absolutely uncontrollable. We give him Neurosleep and put him to bed early on nights with fireworks, and it does work.
Enma3, I really do agree with you, I'm just relating my own experience since the topic of dogs was brought up. The fireworks don't get me worked up, there are some other triggers that set me off. But they do for a lot of other vets and I think it's important for people to be sensitive to that when they are thinking about turning their neighborhood into a simulated combat zone.
Enema3 - The article is about the celebration of the country's independence and how its potential impact on part of the country's society. While the sounds of jubilation may startle a few members of the human populace it can also affect portions of the pet populace that citizens consider "family" members.
Fireworks going off is a simulated combat zone? When I reach the "big O" I see fireworks and hear loud noises but never considered it part of combat - although there have been periods of intense struggles that could have been perceived as hand to hand combat? Just never thought of it that way.
Thinker, you've obviously never seen combat and are in no position to comment. You're just making yourself look silly.
Enema? Really Thinker? Are you 12?
Well, I hope that people are sophisticated enough to separate human emotions from animal emotions. The question in this discussion may be more of a problem about literacy and ability to write, than someone who cannot make that cognitive judgement.
Since the subject came up, I just wish to state that many dogs and cats run in fear and get lost for good on July 4th; and New Years Eve. Please keep them where they can be watched.)
So why not just celebrate life, peace and safety? Music, baseball, picnics, family, BarBQ. Why bring War into the celebration. Use the Big Money for Homes for Vets instead of Fireworks. Its a stupid tradition.
Amanda-2017567:
Thanks for the information. I have asked my veterinarian and she said only to try and put him in the bathroom with a radio. This is not a practical solution for us. I don't know if drugging him will work, but it might be worth a try. I live in an area where a fire ban is in effect, but that does not mean people will obey the law. I expect to be calling the sheriff.
Enma3:
I do understand that you are frustrated by the mention of animals when the article was about the terror that some veterans experience when hearing fireworks. This is a frequent happening in these forums. Not all comments are about the subject of the article. That does not mean folks are completely unsympathetic. In this case, this particular thread wove its way down to our four-legged friends, but I do see mention of veterans.
I wish your veteran husband all the best and thank him for his service. I know that Vietnam vets were treated poorly when they returned from an unpopular and controversial war and it should shame everyone who mocked those soldiers. They only did what they were told to do. Many paid the highest price, some have scars that you can see and still others are invisible. People who don't interact with veterans really don't know how terrified those veterans are when they hear those fireworks; they have no clear idea of what PTSD is or what it can do; in some cases it can severely restrict life.
Not any longer, I've had another birthday.
It took me several years to get past the start and check it out response to fire works. I still jump when I hear a sharp crack like the sound of gunfire or mortar shells going off. At least the fire works no longer trigger the night mares they used to. If any vets have the issues I have had over the years, Please do yourselves a favor and get some counselling. It takes time and effort but it does help.
I am with you there old dog, it can take years to get over this and even then you will occasionally have them go off unexpectedly and set you on edge or send you jumping out of bed in the middle of the night.
What makes things a little rough for me is the trailer park trash about 2 miles one way and the low rent area the cops even try to avoid about 2 miles away on the other. Some times things can get a little loud, Like New years, Mardi Gras ,July fourth, Their favorite team won, etc..
I thought I had finally gotten over it, till I stepped outside the other day and someone set off a set of saturn missles along with something else and I about came unglued. It made me totally remember why I don't conceal carry anymore unless I am in the mountains.
Old Dog & john
The unexpected fire works drive me crazy!! They remind me of to many fire fights with the bigger stuff m-80's and the like sound like and feel like an all out ground attack. Been down that road to many times. And to this day I still turn to face the music, looking for a fight or a blown ambush.
bob
its good to put this out there, my co-workers and my family continue to misunderstand this. the police department one day decided to set off there celebration canon right behind our shop, i started diving under my desk with a room full of people and the look i received was stunned and horror. they then knew there was a problem. the fire works arent as bad like the article states as long as i know what im looking at and hearing. thank you
I was walking from a new job to a nearby diner at lunch time, when a nearby skeet range was having some kind of contest. A bunch of shotguns went off, and I was face down in the road side ditch, so fast that I may have actually teleported there. My first thought when I realized what was happening, was to look around, and make sure no one had seen me, before I stood up and laughingly dusted myself off. I wouldn't call such a reaction PTSD, just that sometimes reflexes get the better of you, when you're taken by surprise. Don't stress over it so much, that kind of reflex could save your life. Think of it as a good thing, and carry on. :)
When I was a kid, my Dad, a WW-II vet who fought in the Battle of the Bulge absolutely hated me shooting off any fireworks. I thought he was just being his normal grouchy self. Now that I'm much older, I can see he carried many scars of that war with him forever. His generation went and did their duty, without complaint. But he would never talk of his war experience. Most of his generation never did. I guess they didn't want to talk about the horrors of war ingrained in their psyche. That didn't make them any less real. Let us all show the compassion, understanding, and appreciation all of our returning war veterans so justly deserve.
As the wife of a Viet Nam vet, I did not always understand his anger and his irritability. After his diagnosis of PTSD, he has gotten some help and is doing better. I also benefited from his counseling as I finally knew the answer.
The other day we visited the Viet Nam Memorial traveling wall, which we have seen many times. The magnitude of the 58,479 names is powerful. Maybe some of the people who don't understand would do well to visit it. My husband was very emotional, another vet saw his pain came over to talk to him, gave him a hug and my husband sobbed on his shoulder. Something at one time, he would never have allowed himself to do. Sometimes, the tears are good.
Enma3,
"As the wife of a Viet Nam vet...". If you vet did indeed have PTSD then you like my wife also has PTSD. People don't understand that the famlies of these veterans bear the scars of that war too. If our government had understood what the combat vet was going through or for that matter cared, mental healthcare would have been available much, much sooner. Thus saving many from tragedy.
Fortunately (or not), I spent two years in Grafenwohr, Germany (7th Army Training Center) with the sounds of small arms, artillery, and armor 24/7. This was after my tour in Vietnam in artillery. I am completely desensitized to the sound of firecrackers, etc. Just a touch hard of hearing, of course. It was probably a good thing, since I don't seem to have any PTSD symptoms.
I was there when the Russians invaded Czechoslovakia in 1968 and woke up that morning to silence, which really seemed strange. All of our units there for training had moved up to the border overnight.
With so little moisture from this past winter and into spring, lots of places are instituting a fire ban. I think ALL of Colorado and most of Wyoming are under one. Perhaps these vets might have a bit of a reprieve. There are other ways to celebrate.
Just so everyone knows, I enjoy a fireworks display as much as most others. In considerations of my neighbors, and their pets, I would refrain. Lots of dogs are terrorized by fireworks, too.
Do you NOT get it? Are you really that insensitive?
We are talking about human beings in PAIN! Can you just forget your f-ing dog? Who the hell is more important people or dogs?
In some case - dogs!
JP-insensitive! Why do some of you even comment when all you want to do is mock?
Enma3, I have four dogs. I care far more about them than you. Sorry!
You people are disgusting! To think people have lost their lives for your freedom! What a waste! Too bad our military can't pick and choose who they die for!
... Really.... 4 dogs? You care for 4 dogs than you do for a vet with PTSD???
Someone really should shoot your dogs right in front of you so you can get a taste of PTSD as well.
Soldiers > Animals.
While I feel for the veterans, I also don't have anything against showing this countries independence as well. After all, Soldiers fight and die for this countries freedom.. While I greatly feel for them and wish that they didn't have to suffer, I do hope they can get counseling for this.
You can have compassion for one and still have compassion for another. No one is suggesting here that anyone cares more for one than for the other.
However, will say that I care more for the dogs at the animal shelter I volunteer for than the soldier who grabs a gun and randomly shoots up their base, or the retired vet who murders a child or the military serviceman who rapes a woman.
There is good and bad in everyone, and the military no less. There are many, many soldiers in uniform who performed heroics, and many who just did their time and get out in order to get money for college, etc.
I would also like to remind you that there are dogs who are vets to and also have PTSD. They never signed up for this, they didn't volunteer for this, they tested high in a desirable trait and were drafted. Where a soldier can muster out after their enlistment term, the dog has no choice but to continue in the military until they decide to retire the dog or the dog becomes so shell-shocked that they are useless for the job they originally trained for. In the past the solution was to put them down--nowadays they are allowing the military K9 handler to adopt their dogs, which is much more desirable ending, i think.
My heart goes out to everyone, two-legged, four-legged, or feathered, who will be frightened by fireworks--and for vets with PTSD who have adopted their K9 dogs with PTSD, may the night be over quickly ad may you find comfort in each other.
Squall, yes I have more compassion, respect and overall regard for my four dogs than you. You suggest that someone should shoot my four dogs in my presence. (Clearly you do not have the spine, guts or testicles to do it yourself). That you would advocate killing my four innocent animals speaks volumes about your lack of decency and respect for life. And you compound your demonstrated worthlessness by having never learned the proper use of grammar or punctuation.
Enma3:
If you will note the FIRST paragraph of my comment, you will see that I first addressed veterans with PTSD and the possibility of a fire ban (and all of Colorado is indeed currently under a fire ban), and wrote: perhaps some of our vets will get a reprieve from fireworks this year. I am a vet myself and volunteer at my local veterans hospital. Veterans gave much for our freedoms and for those in the countries they fought in. I see it in the missing limbs and the haunted look some of them have. Some I help served as far back as World War II and the younger ones probably in Afghanistan and other parts of the middle East. They don't talk about it, but I can see it. I know many of them are being treated for PTSD by the medications they pick up from me. They come to the VA for help and I am more than happy to help them in this small way. My rewards are smiles and thank-yous. I thank every one of them for their service.
When I am at home, my concern during holidays which include fireworks is for my dog. It is clear that you don't think they are important, but when I adopted that brown-eyed dog that wouldn't even look at me from my local animal shelter, I also took responsibility for him. That responsibility includes providing comfort when he is frightened. I made mention that some pets are also terrorized by fireworks in hope that people like you might pause before you light that firecracker.
Enma, most of the people here truly sympathize with your husband's situation, which is unimaginable to most of us civilians. It seems like the others are just observing that the fireworks also scare their pets.
For those of us whose fathers, grandfathers, and uncles fought in the second World War and Korea, PTSD seems more and more like an explanation for the high levels of alcoholism that we saw when we were growing up in the Sixties and Seventies. The "greatest generation" was supposed to be too tough to talk about what had happened, but I'd say that at least half the dads that I knew were both combat veterans and drunks.
The stories only started coming out when these men were old, and younger vets like your husband had paved the way for the PTSD diagnosis. My uncle never told my cousins what he saw at the Battle of the Bulge; they had to learn the story from my dad, after their father had died.
All veterans owe a debt of gratitude to people like you and your husband, who have gone through this horrible experience but are finally telling the truth.
Amanda
re: post 8.7
Just a thought for you... Even those veterans who "just did their time" or joined "in order to get money for college" all faced the same danger of being sent into combat should they have been ordered to go for whatever reason. It isn't fair to look at their motivations for joining the service. What is fair is acknowledging that their name was in the hat like every other service-member's name was and they could have been called upon to sacrifice that future education or give up their 'just getting along' lifestyle for their Nation's needs. They faced the future prospects of being sent in to die, fight, get wounded or become a cripple for life- even if their number didn't get called for combat. They still did more than any civilian who sits on their ass at home proclaiming their judgements about the motivations or actions of the people who actually signed on the dotted line. They should remain silent on that subject.
Yes they did, and respect goes for them too. My Dad was one of those--joined the Army to get money for College and ended up serving through Nam and Korea. I am not, in any way, shape or form, minimizing the sacrifice of those, but there are those who joined to get money for college, and when their number came up they found religious reasons to avoid being sent, or medical reasons, or simply went AWOL--dereliction of duty is an offense under the UCMJ.
I wanted to go into the military when I was younger. I marched around in my Dad's clothes, proudly wore his dog tags, and even took his old parachute off the roof of the house once (Mom nearly skinned me alive for that one.) However, as a five foot Asian chick with coke bottle glasses, nearly legally blind and vivion uncorrectable with laser surgery, I would not have been taken even if my Dad had let me (which he stated many times, in no uncertain terms, he didn't.) Even now, though, if something wwere to happen and they did need me, despite religious and personal convictions against taking lives, I would still go.
As for judging actions--I wouldn't presume to judge actions and motivations for most of those going in, even those convicted of a crime and took military service as an alternative to jail--but if we do not condemn those soldiers who have committed crimes like rape and murder, those who shot up their bases and killed other vets and CO's, then csilence would imply that we condone it, and that should not happen.
@ Tranquil Nihilist
Wouldn't be the first that I've taken from this planet ... Don't have the testicular fortitude to do it? Sure, if you wanna think that.
This will always be an issue for war veterans......I remember this old man who was @ Normandy telling me he could not stand it.....Those noises never go away for some.
There are those that never get over their experiences in war - but most do, and without any help if they have positive support systems to help them readjust to civilian and move on. Same wth police officers and firemen that see more death and carnage during their life-time than 90% of men and women in the military.
Yep, JP has never been in the military or if he was he was a REMF!
I have a brother who is a fireman, and 4 who are policemen, they couldn't even come close to what a combat vet sees.
JP is right that some get over their PTSD without intervention, but many DON"T. Comparing a Combat Vet to a Fireman, or Policeman is kind of like apples, to oranges. Yes, they see some gruesome stuff, but not many have ever had someone actively trying to kill them. They haven't had to run like hell to get under cover from rockets and mortars. If you think about it, the carnage they have witnessed is from events they weren't technically involved in. Very few Policemen have to use their weapons and even fewer have to discharge them in the course of their duties.
Yep, Policemen and Fireman exhibit extreme heroism on a daily basis, but excluding the very few, they really aren't experiencing anything close to what a combat vet has to endure, and the ones that do have to use a weapon are immediately given counseling to help deal with the experience. I wasn't even given a handshake to help me deal with it.
Ok Enma3, enough of your crap. My DD-214 shows 33 years of service, 10 years in Infantry/Spec Ops (11B/11B4S), 44 decorations including 6 medals of valor and 3 PH's, 2 LOM'sm 7 MSM's, 6 AAMs, and enough "been there"medals to fill a cigar box. I've seen more soldiers die in combat than you have on your XBOX 360, and before you go calling people names, you first need to realize that MANY former combat soldiers do not agree with you. If anyone is a Rear Eschelon Mother Fu— _ker it is YOU for you haven't earned the right to suck the toe-jam out of my Danners let alone make assinine allegations and call names. To educate you a bit, presuming you ARE educable, only 15% of all military are in direct combat jobs (Infantry, Spec Ops, Rangers, 11B etc); the REST are in combat or comabt service support. A combat vet isn't someone that goes to Afganistan, sees a body, or has an RPG hit 2 blocks from their air-conditioned room or wears a patch on the right side of his field uniform.. A combat soldier is someone whose job is to close with and destroy the enemy on a regular basis. If you read my comment, I said most SOLDIERS do not experience the level of trauma that police and firemen do in a career, and I am right. Combat vets probably do, but the potential for further combat induced trauma ends when they DEROS (know what that means) out of theater. Cops and firement NEVER deros, and I have clinically treated all of the above. Enough said.
No JP enough of your crap! Your immaturity is epic. I still say you are a liar! And if not, then you are a sociopath. A cigar box full of medals? Army? right, they give medals and ribbons out for being able to tie your own boots! Valor? Oh puh-leeze! You are sounding more and more like a "wanna-be".
FIVE members of my family are policemen and firemen and NO, NO, NO do they EVER see what someone in real combat does. The traumas they witness are usually one or two people not dozens of dead and maimed bodies! They are not in danger 24/7 for 13 months straight!
No, I was never in combat, but I have seen the results of plenty who have been. I have lived with a combat vet for 42 years -USMC infantry, Khe Sanh, Da Nang, M-60 machine gunner (guess he was one of your "15%") There were no air-conditioned rooms in Nam, try rat-infested sand bag bunkers. No clean uniforms, no dry socks, try your boots rotting off your jungle rot infested feet. Ever walked through freshly Agent-Orange sprayed foliage? Ever been sprayed directly with Agent Orange when someone got their coordinates wrong? Try pus-filled lesions from the size of a quarter to the size of tennis ball! Try wondering if that Agent Orange has only given your children missing teeth, misshapen earlobes or what else? I could go on and on, but the experiences of Viet Nam vets don't match your possible experiences, so they don't exist.
You know what? Why am I bothering you are just a self-righteous, insensitive jerk and do not deserve the respect of anyone.
My brother, who is a Vietnam vet, is laying on his death bed begging to be killed. He has had a long haul of 45 years. He over came a lot of demons from that war and lived a productive life.
Now he is just in pain from the effects of Agent Orange, Diabetes, Parkinson, and a heart that only works at 12%. My wish for him is to slip away in a coma and then death. At least he would not have nightmares anymore. I am sure that our parents are waiting for him with open arms. That is how I will be celebrating the 4th. Hoping for a peaceful end.
So for all the vets that are struggling. Get help and hang in. With the right care, a life is possible after war.
Steven- I hope your brother finds his peace soon. My condolences to you. Thank him for me for his service, please.
To all our combat vets: Thank you for your time spent under the stress of live-fire. I for one genuinely appreciate your service and commitment.
Philo,
I'm sure I speak for many, but you are very welcome.
Your thanks go a long way in the healing process. I wish more people could see this..
We have some gun-happy neighbors, that are frequently popping off a shot or two--might be poaching--who knows. My husband will jump, whip his head around trying to see where it's coming from. His eyes are just wild and his heart racing. I'm crying now for all the vets who are in pain from physical and emotional wounds. Thank you guys for all you do from the wife of USMC Viet Nam vet, the daughter-in-law of a USMC WWII vet and the mother of a USMC Somalia and Iraq vet.
I have been thinking about this issue for the past couple of weeks as my neighborhood has the sound of nightly gun shots in the form of firecrackers. On a recent work night a bunch of middle aged bozos just down the street were lighting off M-80s at 10:30PM. Wow, what fun! At whose expense--vets? Dipsticks.
Americans need to outgrow firecracker craziness. Fireworks for a community event, fine.
My dog hates firecrackers even more than I do.
To all our vets who are reading these comments" First of all "Welcome Home!" And thank you for your service. Secondly, there is no such thing as a "mild case of PTSD." My late husband was a combat tank driver in the Central Highlands during his tour there. In addition to PTSD, there was chronic depression, schizophrenia, and a host of other mental illnesses that plagued him. He escaped his nightmare by taking his own life 10 years ago. But the pain never goes away for the rest of us.
I'm so sorry.
Heather,
I know this doesn't help much because your family is in real pain but he's in a better place and finally at rest. May God have mercy on his soul and may you find peace also.
Ok, coming from a veteran of 3 wars 33 years service, 41 decorations AND an expert on combat stress and PTSD, let me state that 96% of ALL human beings, unless they are deaf or exposed to loud noises on a regular basis, experience a startle response when a boom or shot goes off they do NOT expect. If a veteran with alleged PTSD is looking at fire-crackers or July 4th demonstrations and starts having serious startle responses, delusions, or panic attacks; he or she is either too mentally ill to be allowed to function without medication, acting out, or full of crap. The REAL problem is a cottage industry of mental health providers and people who make a profit out of labeling other people impaired to the point that vets start becoming impaired, real or fabricated, before they are even exposed to a situation that they would normally not experience in life - like getting shot at or seeimg people die. MOST combat veterans do not have PTSD to the extent that they cannot go on with their lives after military service, yet you NEVER hear about this group. In addition, many military personnal are 3-4 year enlistmented 18-23 y/o's soldiers that have no qualms about projecting symptomology that they learn from incessant combat stress control orientations may get them some bucks for the rest of their life if they can convince the all-too-willing to be convinced mental health folks that they are impaired. THIS is why the current crop of veterans is costing american taxpayers more than veterans of all previous wars. Contrary to the "party line" that historically we did not know the full extent of not only PTSD or whatever you want to call it (Soldiers Disease-Shell Shock etc) as well as the new "darlilng" of impairment-TBI, we DID, and it was well documented for about 80 years. What DIDN'T exist THEN is a nanny state mentality that wants to take care of you - even if you don't need OR deserve their care. This is not to say that wars do not change people, sometimes terribly, but most soldiers, including the most hardened combat veterans, would prefer to get back into sync without being labeled impaired by a community of "helping professionals" that have probably never been in a fist fight let alone firing a bullet in anger. Enough said.
What a load of BS! If you are indeed a combat vet, which I doubt, then you are in denial or a sociopath with no feelings.
Agreed. So much malarky , I'm glad I kept my combat boots.
21 years, 3 wars and retired for 6 years and I still get up to check the house and make sure the doors are locked, everytime I hear the house creak. After all these years I still tighten up, have to catch my breath, and my heart try's to leap out of my chest when I hear fireworks, even when I know they are coming.
My guess is Enma3 has it right and you are a sociopath that has zero feelings. That means you got lucky, if you did serve in a war, or several wars as you claim. You ever see a WWII , or Korean Vet that goes to a memorial? Remember seeing any with dry eyes as they are led throuh the memories of what happened to them? We all carry scars, some of us are better able to deal with them than others, but we are still dealing with them.
jp,
You sir, are F_n out of you mind! 3 wars, 33 years service AND an expert on combat stress. Wow! And who (other then yourself) proclaimed YOU an expert on combat stress? I suppose you're going to say you have 22 degrees in psychology, authored many learned papers on the subject of combat stress, was a contractor for the military in helping them understand and treat combat stress, yada, yada, yada, ad nauseum...
PS Many of us did not even know we suffered from PTSD until many (too damn many) years later.
Amen Richard..
Enma, he probably is a combat vet, because anybody that would consider themselves an EXPERT on combat stress and PTSD is definitely delusional...33 years, 3 wars, a lot of time spent at the VA.
JP. as an after thought.. Your inability to feel, could be combat related. It is very possible that during those three wars you had to deal with so much trauma, and stress, you shut yourself off from feeling as a coping mechanism. Perhaps you are suffering from PTSD and just don't know it.
It has nothing to do with socioapathy, feelings, lack of empathy, or having to validate observations that have been well-documented for over 80 years, and everything to do with recogniizing that most veterans serve their country, come home, adjust, and move on with their lives without having to carry a clinical label around. Let me respond to some of you that can't accept another's opionion: To Richard: only 4 degrees, including a DSW and Ph.D. Would you say that directing one of the Services entire PTSD and Combat Stress Programs and authoring over 28 articles, 1 book, and being called into to 18 trials of former vets as an "expert witness" enough for you. To Steeler Mama- Do you think that all combat arms soldiers stay in the infantry and never seek different career paths? I would think that 4 tours in Vietnam as a grunt, would qualify me for the "combat vet" title. To funkster01 - Not to belabor the "psychic numbing" aspects of PTSD. but everyone exposed to situations that are not part of normal human experience have some degree of emotional change and I DO have PTSD, just like my father, grandfather, and 98% of the guys I knew in combat arms NONE of whom ever needed clinical treatment and moved on with their lives. THAT is my point, that most soldier DO exactly that and ALL soldiers need to be honored for their service.
Where do you get off equating taking care of vets with some "nanny state" nonsense? Vets that have shown no symptoms of PTSD can still be sensitive to loud unexpected noises. Case in point: Our son is a combat vet. He served in Iraq from 2003-2004, and was posted right in the middle of downtown Baghdad. He came back seeming unscathed and unchanged, his normal happy go-lucky self. Recently, however, he told me this story. One day he was driving by the local minor league baseball park where we live. They have a small fireworks display after every home game. He didn't know that and was surprised by the noise. He had to pull his car over to the side of the road until the anxiety attack passed. My point? Even seemingly well adjusted vets can have unexpected flashbacks.
PS: By the way, your "credentials" hardly makes you a expert on how every combat vet will react to this type of situation. Everyone is different, as are their experiences in war and how they learned to cope with them.
Does it not seem a little peculiar that JP's "experiences" keep growing in magnitude? Now, it's four tours in Viet Nam, more degrees, more credentials?
My brother and I were Vietnam vets. I remember a 4th when some kids set off firecrackers. I heard my brother's voice say "Good Christ!" and he was gone. He had dropped and rolled under a car. It did not affect me the same way. I cried.
This reminds of an episode in a KFC about 25 years ago...the dude looked crazed anyway but he was in there muttering about the hanging (plastic) plants and vietcong...my wife and I joined other patrons in beating a hasty retreat for our vehicles...hope the dude got some help before he killed someone
JP 345944 has it right. One war, grunt, 30 odd months. Give it a rest, people. Every guy who actually fought and got shot at carries the experience with him. Very, very few find it disabling. Call me insensitive but way too much is made of this and the more its talked about the more it is seen as a legitimate excuse for failure and a lack of self-discipline. Just pull up your socks and get on with life.
Really, just pull up your socks and get on with life...I just saw my 23 year old son almost duck and cover at the store near a reservation when all the fireworks went of unexpectedly, get on with life...how many of those 30 months did you spend taking on the Taliban???
t.h. eagen,
" Very, very few find it disabling. Call me insensitive but way too much is made of this...".
Very, very few fnd it disabling to the degree that functioning is at stake BUT you off-handedly dismiss the anger, the thoughts of impending doom, the anxiety, the "why the hell did I react THAT way" responses. Vets function but at what level? My service cost me in civilian life and at the time I didn't even know it.
If you're lucky enough to not have problems, then just be damn thankful and stop dismissing those that honestly do have PTSD.
T.H. you are either in denial or have no clue what you are talking about.
No, I am not in denial and yes, I do know of what I speak. What is your personal experience with combat? Or Steelermama? How many days and years have you spent with other guys who shared the experience? I stuck around the USMC and my oldest and closest friends are all from different infantry companies I served with. No, we were not fighting the Taliban. I will not take away anything from the men and women who fought in Iraq and are still fighting in Afganistan, but the intensity of operations and casualty rates are far less in those places than in Vietnam.
So my opinion is not a pop-off "support our troops" comment but has been formed over many years. You, of course, are entitled to your own opinion. You might ask your 23 year old son what he really thinks.
T.H. you justify your callousness, by touting your own experiences. This does not make you an expert in PTSD, it just means that you don't have it, or you learned to cope with it.
Your hell and mine are completely different. What you experienced, and what I experienced are completely different. You are not an expert on my condition. Not even the doctors are experts on my condition. For that matter, they will never be experts on my condition, because they are not me.
You cannot dismiss what you are not a part of. When you possess the ability to live inside of someone elses mind, then and only then, are you allowed to comment on what they are experiencing.
Funkster01. Get over yourself. If you've been there, done that, then you carry some baggage. So what? Everybody picks up baggage in life. Parents who lose their children or have children with debilitating diseases suffer mightily but I seen no mass movement to provide them with some form of treatment or compensation. No, for almost everybody my response remains the same: suck it up and move on. What you experienced in combat is just your special little burden but everybody has one.
TH I know what my son thinks and feels about his year in Afghanistan, we've talked and cried since he's been home and I have enough experience that he was able to open up and share his thoughts with me, also before he left and while he was deployed, not only did he have a active duty ID card, he still had his dependent's ID card.
Air Force Vet
I also empatize with all the civilians in those war-wracked countries....I know they cringe at airplanes, helicopters etc...and those seeking refuge here in America hid out during the Fourth Fireworks. Have a picnic instead.
Julea did you read the title of the story:
Independence Day irony: PTSD has many vets dreading, avoiding fireworks
American Vets on our Independence Day...
The kids that set off fireworks in barrels outside of the VA office in my town are real jerks.
I say haul their asses in and sign them up for community service at the closest VA hospital cleaning bed pans.
Or let them spend some time with these vets. To understand their feelings. Most kids look at the war as fun time from playing Call of Duty or some other video game. While the games ARE fun, no doubt, the kids need to realize that they are nothing like the lives of these guys in warzones. I have never served in the armed forces but I do have the distinct honor of being able to support them at work. I have heard plenty of stories from these guys and from family members who have served in a time of war.
It helped keep me a bit grounded and understanding that a video game, no matter how realistic was not there and these guys overseas are really under a lot of stress.
On this 4th, I will again...thank God for each and every one of our vets from 1770's to today, their sacrifices and courage are why we are here and why we enjoy the lives we do.
My heart goes out to all the Vets suffering from PTSD, I have seen my husband jump up and start looking for the source, he was Army Spec. Forces. He says it isn't as bad as it was before we met, but I can see his chest pounding on the left side and his look of alert when fireworks, or even gunshots from 2 miles away start up.
PTSD is royal pain in the bum, even for those of us who are not military/ex-military, but folks like me can only imagine what our Vets go through. Peace and Blessed be, y'all!
A returned Vet walked his daughter to school down the street from us. There was construction going on near the school and someone was using a jackhammer. The Vet grabbed his daughter and rolled under a car. Then he cried. We can't get rid of all the noises or memories Ever so, On the Fourth at least, we should be Celebrating Peace, not War fireworks.
Take heart there vets....it eases up after awhile. It always startles me at first but after I realize that I'm home it eases up some, the fireworks that is.
I live in Arizona where there is real gunfire some of the time. I carry a gun though so the reassurance that I am not without protection helps alot.
It is a "gift from the Orient" as they used to say. I will take that being startled part to my grave. Semper Fi (RVN 68-70)
My husband recently returned home from a combat deployment to Afghanistan and we are already planning to go see a movie during the July 4th festivities. Just recently, the high school down the street had fireworks for graduation and that was bad enough... they were totally unexpected. So, this time, we will just go somewhere he can't hear them or see them.
This is what I was thinking last night.
And I hung my head in memory of how their sacrifice has been squandered.
From Concord and Lexington right up till today.
Pax Vobiscum
Dorme bene
Combat veteran, 2 wars, light weapons infantryman 11B, and this article is a load of horse sh*t. I run into PTSD phonies every god da*ned month at the V.A. hospital.
Dead right, Boozer. Time for an ice cream cone?
While I sympathize with the returning veterans, I have to ask "Where was this concern for our Vietnam Vets?" Both of my brothers were drafted and served in Vietnam. I remember my youngest brother sitting at the dinner table on the 4th of July and biting his fingernails until they bled. He finally said to my mom, "I wish they would stop those stupid fireworks. My brother was 18 years old when he left for Vietnam and he was 19 upon his return. No one wrote about the effects of the fireworks on these young soldiers. My older brother has voiced his frustration with the Veterans administration. He has been diagnosed with PTSD and suffers from Agent Orange exposure. However, he has been fighting with the VA for several years now in an effort to have several treatments that the doctors have attributed to his PTSD and Agent Orange exposure. As a country we did a disservice to to this returning Vets, there were no parades or banners. Instead they were called names and spit at. I believe all of our veterans deserve respect and any medical treatment they may need because of what they gave for our country.
Yes it is sad how our vietnam Vets were treated, however they also deserve credit for the way the have fought for future vets, presents Vets.
I have set with Old Vets through many Fourth of Julys, even took a few camping to get away from all the noise & fire works. Good time to spend with friends & family.
I don't need fire works to reminded of those who gave their lives for our freedoms & how sacred those freedoms are.
Vietnam Era Vet here, 1961-1965. Never made it to Vietnam, not even close. But, I been involved with spending time at colleges using my GI Bill of Rights. Have 5 degrees. My most recent studies (after retiring) have included an in-depth look at the Selective Service System, 1940-1973.
Vietnam Vets killed Communists. Middle East Vets killed Arabs. The former were not "cool" because they killed the brothers/sisters of the American Commies (the elite, educators, media, et al, such as numerous Jews who had either evaded or avoided the draft) while the latter killed Arabs which is "cool" in the eyes of the aforementioned Commies (and others who have not studied anything before 9/11/2001) to include the leftover hedonists who lived during the Reagan Era (you know, the want-ees and not the need-ees).
Between 9/5/2001 and 9/10/2001, an institutional investors purchases a huge volume of puts in Morgan Stanley Dean Whitter (occupied the top 17 floors of the WYC), American Airlines, and United Airlines. THEIR psychic really hit it big. Who is this guy, anyway?
FIREWORKS are a complete waste of time and money!