the teenager should be charged with vehicular homicide.

As sad as the story is with what information is available in the article, I would find it a stretch to even think of the teen being responsible for "vehicular homicide" unless the teen was also in a text chat with the biker at the time he crashed. Which would be even more of a stretch.

Thoughts and prayers go out to all involved in this "accident".

That's right Britney, find SOMEONE to Blame.

"Loud pipes save lives."

Except this time. Sounds like his loud pipes drowned out the sirens and flashing lights.

He would have had to be the one driving for that. Maybe criminally negligent homicide but that would be a bigger stretch than Bloomberg's belt has to make each morning.

I am not a "biker" but I do have a motorcycle and you have to have your head on a swivel at all times and assume that no one can see you, because they usually can't. It's very dangerous. Thoughts and prayers to family and friends of the departed.

I don't know. People seem to be able to win lawsuits over the stupidest things... like putting a hot cup of coffee between your legs and when you hit a bump and scald yourself, suing the company who sold it to you because you were a fkn idiot.

The boy set off illegal fireworks which caused the fire the truck was responding to when it hit the bike. I don't think it would be that much of a stretch for the biker's family to sue the boy's family for SOMETHING since it was his actions, indirectly, that caused Brown's death. Notice I didn't say it was RIGHT, just that it WILL HAPPEN. Even if it's a civil suit and not criminal, that boy's parents are GOING to be in court, you watch.

that woman had 3rd degree burns and had to have skin grafts on her "lady parts"! there is no reason for coffee to be that hot at the drive thru. I'd sue the heck out of them too. as for this, sounds like a tragic accident no more no less. my condolences to the family.

Per the article: "He was wearing a helmet." If it was a full face, entomb the head type helmet, he probably didn't hear the siren. Helmets are killers.

Thinker,where did it say the bike had "loud" pipes? He could have been on one of those BMWs,they sound like they have electric motors.

The truth is riding a motorcycle, with helmet or not, is one of the most dangerous activities--there's absolutely no protection around you if there's an accident.

Motorcyclists know the risks. If you ride a motorcycle, one must deal with consequences.

hdrider - Helmets are killers? Really? I dunno what types of helmets you wear, but when I'm riding through town I can hear JUST fine with mine on.

Gotta agree with Brokinarrow on this. I've been a rider for over 40 years now and have had several types of helmets during that time and have never felt they impaired my ability to hear what was going on around me. A helmet may not save every life but there is almost no way they can kill.

hdrider is just another ABATE drone, spouting anti-helmet drivel with no evidence whatsoever. "If you don't think you need a helmet, you probably don't" fits this sort to a tee.

Drivel?

When politicians in California were paid enough bribe money to pass a mandatory helmet law, I did the research.

In 1990(the last year that I verified the statistics), eight of the ten states with the highest motorcycle death rates had mandatory helmet laws. Of the ten states with the lowest death rates, three had mandatory helmet laws.

I could continue quoting statistics but, I don't want to confuse you any more than you already are.

I wear a helmet only because the law requires it and having ridden for 57 years, I have had to lay my bike down several times. The time I was broadsided, My bike was totaled and my leg was nearly torn off and my foot was crushed. All of the scratches and dings on my helmet, that I have worn since 1992, are from being dropped or thrown onto my workbench or wherever. None of the damage was from a lay down or crash. If I had been wearing it on my foot it might have helped but, I doubt it.

P.S.: Since my crash, I'm not riding another bike- I'm riding the same one. I rebuilt it from the ground up including a new frame ( the old one was too twisted to repair).

2nd P.S. : I have a bachelor's degree in chemistry.

Helmets are killers.

After forty-plus years of wearing helmets I'm still alive. I must have purchased the non-lethal models.

hdrider - The stats regarding helmet laws and death rates have confused you. What you haven't researched is the relationship between the number of registered motorcyclists/bikers to the number of deaths, ridden miles per death, etc. For example, if there are only 10 motorcyclists and 2 die from accidents that is a 20% death rate - high; but if there are 10,000 and 20 die from accidents that is only 0.2% - low.

HD-Rider too bad you did not have my accident where I laid down in a corner at 80mph and went face first into the curb flipping over in countless body spins and ended up splitting the helmet in 2, it saved my life that day, with a broken nose and split lips were it stopped the curb from splattering my head all over it never mind the leg broken in 11 places.

If you have ridden 57 years without one ur a lucky tard and thats it, have lost many friends in bike accidents so don't spew your crap here.

Thanks to that pos helmet I can still hug my kids at night, just because your one a these dudes that feels all macho without a helmet, ya know the " look at me I am a F**King rebel fear me!!" attitude.

When the day comes you needed that helmet you will be dead and unable to spew your s**t here. Do not tell people they dont help because that is just sayin your a f**king idiot.

I think some of you are being too hard on britney. What it sounds like she is really saying is that if the teen hadn't been breaking the law and caused that fire from fireworks than the firetruck may not have been at that spot at that time and the man would not have died. Chain of events...caused by the teen. So yeah, "indirectly" that teen is responsible for his death.

Firetrucks STILL have to obey traffic laws, but sometimes they get carried away with their jobs. When that is the case, make the victim seem like the one in the wrong. It's good for the city's budget and good for the guy driving the truck's conscience.

Unfortunately, police and firemen are human to, and they ALSO make mistakes and screw up. When responding to a call they are supposed to use caution at all times, including slowing down at intersections, red lights, or stop signs ESPECIALLY f they inted to go through them. How many times have you seen a squad car or fire truck zoom through an intersection at too high a speed. NOTHING, except perhaps a mass causualty event warrants this type of behavior; one that can kill people on the way to save people! This story is incomplete, but as a motorcycle rider myself, on MANY occasions I have had cars, including police cars, cut in front of me making left turns or had to slow down for some abject moron with his or her ear stuck in a friggin cell phone and not paying attention. I'll reserve judgement until the "rest of the story" comes out, but there are two sides to every coin, and I'm sure there will be enough witnesses to sort this out. The family of Brown deserves this.

Brown was a stickler for rules, said Mahadi.

Except for the one that says to yield the right of way to emergency vehicles.

When responding to a call they are supposed to use caution at all times, including slowing down at intersections, red lights, or stop signs ESPECIALLY f they inted to go through them.

They are not required to but do for for their own safety.

I'm sure if someone in your family was killed by a speeding cop or fire truck you would be screaming the loudest,thinker

Guys...I am sure all involved were doing their best...the biker just didn't hear the sirens and the firemen driving either didn't see him at all or saw him too late.

The fact of the matter is, a man died while riding his bike....the kid, I would hope, is feeling bad about what he did...I know if I had set off an explosive that ended in this, I would, and I am sure the firemen feel bad, too.

Let this be a lesson and remind us all, no matter what we are riding in or on, to be careful, and watch out for ourselves and anyone else.

It's scary how something can snowball into something so bad.

@tinker...they are supposed to use caution at all times. when going to an accident they really are not speeding. it appears they are cuz you have to slow down and pull over.

Sounds like his loud pipes drowned out the sirens and flashing lights.

Loud pipes drown out flashing lights???

Croc15 - Wrong. There is no indication that cops or firetrucks were speeding.

Loud pipes drown out flashing lights???

As well as they "save lives"!!! When is the last time you saw a loud bike save a life?

As a life-long motorcycle enthusiast and a retired police officer, I don't completely buy into the "loud pipes save lives" philosophy. Cage riders are most often completely entombed in their own little universe and forget about the wide world outside, have their stereos blasting or more likely these days have a phone screwed into their ears and have so introverted themselves into deep conversation with a disembodied voice that they don't realize how stupidly they are driving. People can't even hear the sirens of emergency vehicles, much less exhaust pipes on motorcycles. Our red and blue light bars were a more effective attention-getter even during the day, as are motorcycle headlights, than loud sirens or loud pipes.

As for helmets... they present their own pros and cons. Yes, they are better than hitting your naked head against the curb, but they also restrict and interfere with unfettered hearing and vision, two extremely necessary senses when riding in traffic. The true solution is to prevent collisions from ever happening, but that's impossible when cage drivers are smoking, eating, drunk, doing drugs, talking on the phone, watching television, curling their hair, reading books, putting on mascara, breast feeding, changing baby diapers, holding their pets in their laps, having intimate eye-to-eye conversations with their passengers, having sex, text messaging, driving reckless just because their two-ton vehicle can go 100mph, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum... all things I have seen people do behind the wheel because I am riding unencumbered from a cage and can see what is going on around me, and I have to watch them so I can do the safe driving for them.

CC GWRider - Helmets do not restrict vision or hearing. Peripheral vision is 180 degrees. Motorcycle helmets are cut at 210 - 220 degrees. So the opening is beyond the field of vision. Helmets do not reduce hearing either. They do cover the ears so that wind noise is reduced, thereby hearing is improved.

Most extensive review of motorcycle helmet effectiveness was done by Professor Harry Hurt in USC. Of all the accidents they investigated it was not determined that any serious injuries were caused by helmets.

I have been riding motorcycles for 30+ years. I always wear full face helmet. I have gone down on one bike, at about 25 mph. First thing that hit was my hip and then my helmet smacked the pavement. Chances are if I did not have that helmet on I would have had a serious brain injury or been dead. As it was I got up, brushed the bike off and rode down the road.

We do not know the facts of the accident. Does not sound like the helmet would have helped here anyway. I am sure he probably had massive internal injuries or was even run over by the truck.

Helmets protect your head but do not protect against a broken neck which is the main injury causing death along with brain injury. Instant death from a broken neck is better than surviving it. Who wants to live as a quad ? no one I know.

Yes I'm wondering that, too.

excar

The 17 year old's actions led to a fire and a death. I'm curious if he'll be held accountable for both.

Why stop at the boy? Who sold/gave him illegal fireworks? Who brought them to the person who sold/gave them to him? Lets not forget the manufacture of the fireworks that made them. Oh yea, then you can go after the person who sold/gave the kid the lighter/matches that he used to set the fireworks off. Hell we could fill up a prison by the time this case is over.

®¿® GEZZZzzzzz

flnobody... Read my post again. I'm not accusing anybody of anything. I'm simply curious. The article said he was arrested, but not on what charge. You're right; where does it end if fault is being looked for? Quit trying to raise H*** over a simple comment. GEZZZzzzz!

For those that CAN read, the law allows for charges of murder or manslaughter to be levied against anyone that is directly or indirectly causal to a death; whether they be in their home, in a car, or on their computer. If someone dies because of their actions; they can be culpable. Flonobody - do you understand what I just said or do I need to spell it out in larger words?? Quit defending an irresponsible kid and acting like much of society in the USA that just cannot seem to get it through their heads that people are responsible for their misdeeds NOT the tool, whether it be a gun or a fire-cracker.

If someone dies because of their actions; they can be culpable.

IF there is a reasonable belief that their actions could lead to serious bodily harm or death. The teen using fireworks could have been charged with arson, death as a result of the fire created from the fireworks, etc. However, there is no reason to believe that a motorist would be killed because they failed to yield the right of way to an emergency vehicle.

Quit defending an irresponsible....

I agree. Quit defending the irresponsible biker.

Read your own post. A question is ended with a question mark at the end and a statement is ended with a period. If indeed you were questioning possible action then you should have ended you sentence that way. Good English skills should not be ignored just because you are posting on a message board.

He was not a Biker,he was a motorcyclist,bikers wear a 1% Diamond!!

jp

For those that CAN read

You obviously cannot read. One I never saw your post. You should be able to tell where my comment was directed at by the name "excar" at the top of the box.

"do you understand what I just said or do I need to spell it out in larger words??"

Quit defending an irresponsible kid

Please point out where I defended the kid? Even through most of my comment was sarcasm. From your ignorant post, it sounds like I would have been defending your comments. Because some idiots think that because some one screws up. That everyone should be held accountable, even the parents who gave birth to them. Because it was their fault he is alive.

I don't think the hands of the Law would reach that far. The firemen were doing their job answering a call. Accidents happen. As a possible chain reaction of events, perhaps there could be an ethical connection. Is that kid going to feel responsible ? he should....but will he ? who knows.

Bill-284190: That's OK Bill. You just sit home in the fetal position sucking your thumb. I'll continue to ride and live life. BTW how is the view from your safe home? It's pretty good from where I sit.

Probably hides during thunder storms too. Don't want to take the one in a million or so chance of getting hurt.

LOL. Ride away. I don't begrudge you that. But, one in a million or so? You might want to refigure the math on that, using real statistics.

Bill can't respond. He has to sterilize his keyboard before he removes his hands from his bubble. ;)

Bill, you better get used to motorcycles. Do you honestly believe that an "alternative fuel" is around the corner? You think big oil is going to let that happen? So, unless you like taking the brunt of paying $6 a gallon into your 4-wheeled vehicle, you better start warming up to the idea.

But that doesn't just go for you, Bill, but for everyone in the US. Look at how Europe has gotten by with motorcycles and scooters, as well as fuel-efficient diesel.

And there is already an influx of new motorcyclists in the US. Notice the spike in motorcycle insurance ads?

Diesel may be more fuel-efficient, but it's rapidly becoming more expensive as more cars switch to it. When I was coming up, there were only a handful of stations that even sold diesel and it was about a third the price of the cheapest grade of gas. Now that so many cars and trucks run on diesel, because it is cleaner burning and way cheaper, the people in the industry must have said "Now we can gouge them" because the las time I looked at a diesel price, it was almost a dollar more than the most expensive grade of gas. To me, it's no longer more economical, to my wallet anyway. to switch to deisel...

I only call them donorcycle's when they ride around in shorts, t-shirt, tennis shoes, and no helmet. Anyway, the relative in the article mentions how he always rode "slow".... slow does not equal safe riding/driving. A true safe rider is always watching out for the other people that will cause him/her issues on the road. Hard to say from the article, but my initial thought is this poor soul either didn't look both ways or just plain couldn't see around the corners in time to avoid the accident. Sad either way.

@ Brokinarrow:

Read post #1.9.

You seem to think helmets are the save-all. 75% of motorcycle fatalities, both with and without helmets, is chest injury.

As far as "D.O.T. approved goes, the last time the US DOT tested a helmet was in 1974.

I believe that any time a motorcyclist dies while wearing a law required helmet, the state should be held liable.

So if most fatalities are chest injures, why is it the helmets fault again? And if you don't like DOT rated helmets, buy one with SNELL approval. Either way, a helmet will help prevent a minor wreck from becoming a major casualty due to head injury. I'm not saying they're guaranteed to save your butt, so don't try to put words in my mouth.

Oh and if you could provide a link for your fatality statistic I'd be interested in reviewing it. Just saying, because 83.2% of all statistics are made up on the spot.

Like your's?

See post # 1.15.

Donorcycle, I'm so sick of that "clever" overused word. Bill, you're a real jerk.

Bill is the recipient of a donorcycle brain transplant, the one from that inbred bike accident a few weeks back ............ Life is too short Bill pop the bubble and run for it man!!! There is a world out there just do it, snap those dog leashes and just bolt!

many organs, especially hearts and lungs come from motorcycle accidents. They are usually young and healthy and make good donors. ..a sad and opportunistic reality, depending whose side you are on.

Because they are looking for Someone to blame. It couldn't POSSIBLY be that the motorcycle rider simply wasn't paying close enough attention.

Yeah, i have to agree with Skiing on that one. Especially if the fire truck had it's sirens going, you'd think he would have been extra careful when approaching intersections. I almost wonder if he had earbuds in or something and didn't hear it.

Tim: Blow me

The Truth - What a rational and logical response - from a 9 year old.

Tim: I think the people on this board, most of them anyway, are trying to point out that people in the world are sue happy and will try to pin the blame on anyone they can. Not only that, but they are indicating the boy who set the fire was at fault because the truck was responding to a fire set as a result of his illegal actions. No one has said anything about the biker being at fault in his own death... well, except for Bill but he's obviously a troll anyway so he doesn't count. As I pointed out above, it is NOT RIGHT but I fully expect that boy's family will be in civil court over this, probably for wrongful death, at the very least. Brown's friends say how safe he was and he always followed the rules but he is no longer here to say whether he did or if he tried to make the corner because he was in a hurry or if he simply did not hear the sirens, or the truck did not check the way was clear, or whatever.

I was involved in an accident with a biker who turned left in front of me when he did not have the right of way. I was pretty young at the time and was doing just under the speed limit (which was 45). It was a miracle he only got some bruises and not a single broken bone because his bike was totaled. Two other bikes that had made the intersection came back to see how he was and while one chick started cussing me out, one of the others let me cry on his shoulder and told the officer responding "We told Kevin that if he kept trying to cut in front of a car, one of these times he wasn't going to make it"

I know lots of bikers and I know there are some bikers that give the word "biker" a bad rap (like that chick). I'm sure most bikers are law abiding and careful because their bike is their baby and what biker really WANTS to layout their machine? The ones who take the most chances are not what I refer to as bikers but those who ride those crotch rockets, weaving in and out of traffic like they own the place and if there had been one more coat of paint on the car they cut off, they would've gotten creamed. Even if you're wearing full leathers, you're gonna be hurting some. But I'm also fairly sure that even the most law abiding will take the odd chance if they think they can make it, just like car drivers do, and you can have mounted a bike a billion times and ridden safely but all it takes is taking one chance that was miscalculated. Unless there is an eyewitness who will be able to testify whether Brown took a chance and lost or if the firetruck did not slow to ensure the way was clear (which they all should even if the lights & siren give them right of way) there is no way his friends can just "know" he was not at fault. And like ExCarGuy said, those firefighters are also going to wonder if there wasn't something they could have done to avoid it.

The reason he didn't hear the firetruck was because of the helmet.

So the helmet caused the accident. What a stretch. I've been riding motorcycles for over 40 years and have ALWAYS worn a helmet yet have never been involved in an accident because of wearing one.

a small easy accident.

What is a small easy accident? As opposed to a large hard accident?

I teach motorcycle safety and could use your insight to further the safety programs - if realistic.

Ron, Not sure if you have ever actually worn a helmet but I wear a full-face helmet each time I ride and I hear just fine. In fact, on the very few occasions I have rode without a helmet, I thought I got more road noise (air whistling past my ears) than I did with my relatively aerodynamic helmet on. Additionally, for those who really do want their ears uncovered,or on those realy hot days, there is the choice of a half-helmet which at least offers some protection.

It is certainly true that if you actually collide with a large vehicle like a fire truck, a helmet will probably not save you but there are many other situations where it can make the difference between a bit of road rash or even a broken bone vs. severe brain injury or death.

Brad,

It appears that there is a fairly sizeable pool of posters that have never worn a helmet or have seen a low speed get-off where somebodies melon gets split on a curb and their life ended right there. It doesn't keep them from posting though............

Why are there zero major helmet manufacturers in the US? Bell, the last major manufacturer moved to Canada. The rest either closed down or moved out of the country. Why? They couldn't get product liability insurance at any price.

hdrider,

Did you pick up that line at the last ABATE meeting? Just sounds like it, that's all................

@ 7bubba7:

See post # 1.15.

Don't belong to ABATE and have never gone to any of their meetings- I do my own research.

hd rider, which i seriously doubt

looks like you missed the entire point of the post. no one gives a rats a** whether a helmet is made in the us or not, the entire point is the lies we are being given about having to wear helmets

Anyone that thinks that the protection of a helmet does not save lives is an idiot. Imagine the skull of a person being the only protection for your little brain. Now imagine the extra protection of the helmet around that skull increasing the chances that the little brain doesn't get crushed or Jarred quite as bad as with the skull alone. Sure, a major bump to the head may cause death even with the helmet, but does that mean you shouldn't protect yourself from the more minor accidents?

You're right...it's just your opinion. Where in the article does it say the firetruck driver was irresponsible? Where does it mention who had the right of way? Where does it mention that the motorcyclist was NOT irresponsible. Your whole post is a fabrication of assumptions. It's fools like you with an ax to grind with "authority figures" that make the jury system in this country the ridiculous circus it has become.

Bikers are donors???? I believe that, we have more heart than others, more courage then others and we think faster too. ANYONE that hits a biker with their car should be charged with homocide! People in cars are a danger to themselves and ALL other motorists! They eat their burgers, dip their fries, text each other, watch DVD's.... Reprehensible...idiots...murderers!

LOL. And when traffic is stacking up, motorcyclists drive down the center stripe between cars, or start weaving into spaces barely bigger than the bike, just making themselves targets for someone changing lanes.

Did the motorcyclist have HIS headphones on, catching some tunes, while cruisin' down the road. Let's make a BUNCH of generalizations about everyone who drives anything. Reprehensible...idiots...suicide jockeys!

Jay, what will you say when you hit a motorcyclist some day? It could happen. I was hit by a fellow motorcyclist, who was driving his car at the time.

There is an old saying about bikers - there are two kinds; those who have been in a wreck, and those who are going to be in one. I was in two, and gave it up.

If the whole world was nothing but motorcycles, and cars and trucks did not exist, I would do it. But, inevitably, someone will turn left in front of you.'

It happens.

And yea, the 22-year-old with no helmet, on the crotch rocket with TEMP TAGS, wearing nothing but shots, sandals, and a t-shirt (riding up in the wind to show hit butt tatt to the ladies) zooming by at 100 mph is referred to as an "organ donor" by EMTs, as they are one of the largest sources for organ transplants.

Robert: sometimes those bikers turn left in front of you. The boy I hit did. Luckily, he was only bruised up as his bike was totaled but his friends said right to the cop that it was his own fault because he keeps taking chances. Don't put all the blame on the driver of the car.

I was behind a guy on a chopper a couple of days ago who kept swerving within the lane, then he would pass a car and pull back and ride that car's bumper. I could see he was a dangerous rider as I kept as far away from him as I could. It is evident guys like that are looking for trouble and I don't intend to give it to them. I suspect his life expectancy may be short even though he was wearing a helmet.

Maybe years of exposure to high decibel motorcycle engines at close range contributed to his hearing loss? No? Not even possible? Sometimes we are our own worst enemy.

You're right about memorial accidents not being uncommon.

In CT a couple of years ago two guys were leaving a friends funeral (he died in a bike accident). On the way home they opened it up on the interstate and both smashed into an 18 wheeler...both dead.

Robert -

Totally agree with your comments. I also used to ride and had an accident. I was wearing a full face helmet at the time and hit the road at about 60. I mention the full face because without it I would be missing the lower half of mine. I recovered and got another bike but eventually gave up riding all together. No matter how dilligent I was, there were still too many variables that I couldn't control. My accident was nearly 20 years ago and I'm still feeling it. Riding a bike just wasn't worth the possibility that my kids might grow up without a father. As they say, "it's never a tie in bike vs. car." (or bike vs. anything for that matter).

Ski

No, no one will charge the 17 year old. It's WAY TOO MUCH of a stretch.

No one will charge the 17 year old with CRIMINAL charges like manslaughter or some such, but that won't stop Brown's family from filing CIVIL charges like wrongful death. They may even win. Remember, even OJ got convicted of that even when found not guilty on the criminal charges. Seems to me, if the state finds you not guilty in a particular crime, how can a lesser court then find you guilty in the same crime of lesser charges. Makes no sense to me. He can't be both.

The 17 year old would be a third party. There is no way he can be charged for an accident he was not involved in. The firemen were in charge of their truck, regardless of their destination. OJ killed his ex-wife and her friend-fact. He was found not guilty by a jury who never would have convicted OJ no matter what. A civil suit was right and just. Of course, no one got anything but it is the principle. Civil suits pick-up where the law fails to convict. There is no such similarity here.

I think when you ride a bike, you should put one of these stickers on your chest that says " DNR". It keeps the first responders from trying to keep you alive when you are seriously busted up. Seems like they can put you on life support long enough for your family to decide whether they want to give your organs or not. I would want to die rather than being a quad/vegetable. Who would not ? riding a motorcycle may be worth the bargain for some people. I get it. Your choice.

time for you makes sense but you could also hurt some innocent person. Not really fair unless you pick an empty road , open it up and let it go. I can see that. Again, you make the choice. Your life and your decision. Better way to go than laying around in a bed slowly waiting to die. Not the warrior way for sure.

120 MPH into a concrete abuttment. Already have it picked out. No one hurt but me.

Are you kidding me?There is no need doing it!Please respect the valuable life! Share our biking experience and make a better communication.Join the BikerLoving togther!